From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 1 02:20:30 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:20:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update Message-ID: Hi Francisco As David indicates, use the Text property of the control to retrieve the currently typed string before it is saved and while the control still has focus; if it hasn't focus, Text is not available. For a bound control, the Value property returns the stored value. /gustav >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 31-08-2005 23:08 >>> I have a bound form in an Access 2000 data project. I have a field named txtADE, I set it to 3 and immediatly the before_update fires. however in the before_update code if I try to reference txtADE it shows my previous value, not the new one... what gives? thanks, -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 1 02:38:42 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:38:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing a date calculation Message-ID: Hi Chris We have a generic function (well two functions) for this purpose: Function DateNextWeekday( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal bytWeekday As Byte = vbMonday) _ As Date ' Returns the date of the next weekday, as spelled in vbXxxxday, following datDate. ' 2000-09-06. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next DateNextWeekday = DateAdd("d", 7 - (WeekDay(datDate, bytWeekday) - 1), datDate) End Function Function DatePrevWeekday( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal bytWeekday As Byte = vbMonday) _ As Date ' Returns the date of the previous weekday, as spelled in vbXxxxday, prior to datDate. ' 2000-09-06. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next DatePrevWeekday = DateAdd("d", 1 - WeekDay(datDate, bytWeekday), datDate) End Function As Stuart mentions, given the Sunday you can easily find the Monday before. It's a matter of taste, but I prefer to use the Date functions whenever possible, thus: datSundayPrevious = DatePrevWeekday(Date, vbSunday) datMondayBefore = DateAdd("d", -6, datSundayPrevious) /gustav >>> dc8 at btinternet.com 01-09-2005 00:00 >>> All, I have a form that users are supposed to enter a start date, always a Monday and an end date, always the Sunday after. However, they seem completely unable to enter these dates correctly so I am trying to see if there is a way to force a date into the system using Date() and then going back to the previous Sunday and then working out the Monday prior to that. So, 31 August 2005 would go back to Sunday 28th August 2005 and I would then subtract days to get Monday 22 August 2005. Could anybody give me a pointer on if this is possible as the data being returned currently is normally incorrect and this is causing more than a few headaches !! Thanks in advance, Chris Swann From artful at rogers.com Thu Sep 1 03:01:21 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 04:01:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls Message-ID: <200509010801.j8181ER12524@databaseadvisors.com> This is perhaps a day early, since it's humourous, but it is also on point for those of use who attempt to market internationally. 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels depicting the contents, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi Brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu Sep 1 05:05:09 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:05:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls Message-ID: <20050901100507.8957E2527DB@smtp.nildram.co.uk> The French soft drink Pschitt springs to mind. Not a big market in English-speaking countries for that. And even within the broad English-speaking world we all know of words and phrases that don't cross borders well. On the serious side of this it just shows if anyone is thinking of marketing products outside of their country it just proves it's essential to involve locals. It's not just naming, but customs too. I've never tried it but I'm quite sure marketing of a product in, say, Japan is a very different exercise. I'm sure those with products, like Rocky, would have some tales to tell. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls Date: 01/09/05 08:02 This is perhaps a day early, since it's humourous, but it is also on point for those of use who attempt to market internationally. 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels depicting the contents, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi Brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 1 09:17:08 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:17:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu Sep 1 09:32:01 2005 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:32:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318807225F77@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> You have my permission, and gladly (I've sent the email) though I doubt you'll find anything worth printing amongst my contributions to the list. Come November I'll have time on my hands (as you know) and I'd love to help. Yell if there's anything I can do. xx Roz -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 01 September 2005 15:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From john at winhaven.net Thu Sep 1 09:56:40 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:56:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318807225F77@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <200509011456.j81EulR20286@databaseadvisors.com> John, You may use all of the "deep class" modules I have written about here. John B. ;o) From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Sep 1 09:59:41 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:59:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book References: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <003b01c5af05$c8609fc0$0200a8c0@s1800> Sorry, John, but for whatever reason my ISP doesnt allow sending to your addrss. so here goes: ---------------- I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book this includes other work archived by dba like BEU Lembit ---------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 4:17 PM Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book > Folks, > > Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a > "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and > solutions > found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the > royalties > to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other > "accessd" > lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > > Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / > solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will > be > acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will > at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following > people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this > book...". > I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / > solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. > > At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their > solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to > AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a > sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use > my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/86 - Release Date: 31.08.2005 > > From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Sep 1 10:07:35 2005 From: GregSmith at starband.net (GregSmith at starband.net) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! I know we've been around this topic before, but I thought I'd see if anyone has any definitive answers about the maximized form. Access 2003/XP. Form has to be maximized...there just simply is not enough room if I don't maximize it. They wanted all this stuff on it, so I did that, but the form must be maximized to keep it all on one screen. I have an exit button for them to use which does everything I want, but the dang control box (min, max, and "X") is still there and they can close the form using the "X" if they want and it bypasses some of the code I need to have run on closing. And the code I need run when they exit cannot be run if they use the "X" because it must set the form in a state where I can't check on certain fields before I allow it to close. Does anyone know of any way around this? Is there some clandestine (or non-clandestine...) way to disable that control box? Or at least hide it? I do have full Access security set up in this database, so the users can't get anywhere they're not supposed to go, but that doesn't stop them from closing this form using the control box if they can see it. MTIA! Greg Smith From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 1 10:34:16 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:34:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: Hi Martin and John Well, I've received much help from the list through the years, so could we consider this as payback time? "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book with a royalty split as described below". /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 01-09-2005 16:17 >>> Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Thu Sep 1 10:42:04 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:42:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <000e01c5af0b$b454e210$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> You have a couple of options... 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit button doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you lose the min/max buttons. 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can be cancelled. Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Sep 1 11:47:11 2005 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:47:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: <000e01c5af0b$b454e210$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> References: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> <000e01c5af0b$b454e210$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <36552.65.118.249.214.1125593231.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Doris: Thanks for responding! I didn't realize the Form_Unload event could be cancelled. That does work and I can check it there. However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears in the upper right hand corner. Or is there another way to set that property? Greg > You have a couple of options... > > 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit button > doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you lose the > min/max buttons. > > 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. > This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed > from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can be > cancelled. > > Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... > > BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close > > Doris Manning > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 12:18:49 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:18:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? Message-ID: It can, I believe, be done with API calls, but it is definitely draconian. As long as you use the UnLoad event to make sure everything runs properly before the form closes, does it really matter? Windows doesn't want users getting trapped in a window with no way out, so it graciously shows a close button when you maximize a form. If your code breaks somehow so that your command button doesn't work (yes, I've had that happen), the window close button would be the only way short of Alt F4 to close the window. If you still want to try it, search the archives. I'm pretty sure it's been explored here before. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? Doris: Thanks for responding! I didn't realize the Form_Unload event could be cancelled. That does work and I can check it there. However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears in the upper right hand corner. Or is there another way to set that property? Greg > You have a couple of options... > > 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit > button doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you > lose the min/max buttons. > > 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. > This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed > from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can > be cancelled. > > Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... > > BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close > > Doris Manning > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Sep 1 12:51:31 2005 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:51:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29087.170.206.224.25.1125597091.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Charlotte: Good point. I just demonstrated (for myself) exactly what you were talking about...getting trapped in a window with no way out. Except my only way out was to kill the program with the task manager...I didn't leave myself an out when I was testing...sigh...well, I did, but I couldn't get to it to release the form...so I was stuck. We'll just stop going down THIS road. I only have to run into the ditch a couple of times before I realize it's the wrong way... ;) Thanks again, Doris and Charlotte! Greg > It can, I believe, be done with API calls, but it is definitely > draconian. As long as you use the UnLoad event to make sure everything > runs properly before the form closes, does it really matter? Windows > doesn't want users getting trapped in a window with no way out, so it > graciously shows a close button when you maximize a form. If your code > breaks somehow so that your command button doesn't work (yes, I've had > that happen), the window close button would be the only way short of Alt > F4 to close the window. > > If you still want to try it, search the archives. I'm pretty sure it's > been explored here before. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? > > > Doris: > > Thanks for responding! I didn't realize the Form_Unload event could be > cancelled. That does work and I can check it there. > > However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they > don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to > No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form > is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears > in the upper right hand corner. > > Or is there another way to set that property? > > Greg > >> You have a couple of options... >> >> 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit >> button doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you >> lose the min/max buttons. >> >> 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. >> This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed >> from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can >> be cancelled. >> >> Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... >> >> BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close >> >> Doris Manning >> mikedorism at verizon.net >> From dc8 at btinternet.com Thu Sep 1 13:08:23 2005 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:08:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing a date calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509011808.j81I8VR21812@databaseadvisors.com> Stuart and Gustav, Many, many thanks for the replies. I will have a play and get to understand the workings for future reference. Chris From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 1 13:48:09 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:48:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book References: Message-ID: <43174CE9.1090103@shaw.ca> "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book. With all the usual disclaimers like wikkipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi Martin and John > >Well, I've received much help from the list through the years, so could >we consider this as payback time? > >"I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the >AccessD list in a printed book with a royalty split as described >below". > >/gustav > > > > >>>>jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 01-09-2005 16:17 >>> >>>> >>>> >Folks, > >Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily >a >"real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and >solutions >found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the >royalties >to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other >"accessd" >lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > >Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code >/ >solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we >will be >acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We >will >at the least have a section of the book with something like "the >following >people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this >book...". >I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question >/ >solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the >content. > >At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow >their >solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to >AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and >a >sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to >use >my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 13:55:22 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:55:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the before_update (on the form) firing. On 9/1/05, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Francisco > > As David indicates, use the Text property of the control to retrieve > the currently typed string before it is saved and while the control > still has focus; if it hasn't focus, Text is not available. > For a bound control, the Value property returns the stored value. > > /gustav > >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 31-08-2005 23:08 >>> > I have a bound form in an Access 2000 data project. I have a field > named txtADE, I set it to 3 and immediatly the before_update fires. > however in the before_update code if I try to reference txtADE it > shows my previous value, not the new one... what gives? > > thanks, > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 15:18:40 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:18:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update Message-ID: If you have changed the control then the value in it should be whatever you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control has actually occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue property until the Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property of a control is only available when the control has the focus, so it won't be available from the command button. Button clicks can intervene in the normal sequence of events, so if you change a value in the control and then click a button without leaving the control, the button click happens first, before the events of the control you changed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the before_update (on the form) firing. > From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 16:14:27 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:14:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For the record, this is why I hate bound forms ;)... the only reason I'm using it this way is because it's a data entry screen, and it can hold on to data if the connection were to be severed, this has happend to me because our of our NOTwork.. :( On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > If you have changed the control then the value in it should be whatever > you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control has actually > occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue property until the > Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property of a control is only > available when the control has the focus, so it won't be available from > the command button. Button clicks can intervene in the normal sequence > of events, so if you change a value in the control and then click a > button without leaving the control, the button click happens first, > before the events of the control you changed. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 1 17:02:59 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:02:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION In-Reply-To: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <43180733.27202.965D38A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 1 Sep 2005 at 10:17, John W. Colby wrote: I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book as long as they share some of the second million they make in commission on the said book with the members of the AccessD list. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 1 17:05:41 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:05:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > before_update (on the form) firing. > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and form events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. -- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 19:16:56 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:16:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION Message-ID: LOL Is it Friday yet? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 3:03 PM To: AccessDBook at colbyconsulting.com Cc: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION On 1 Sep 2005 at 10:17, John W. Colby wrote: I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book as long as they share some of the second million they make in commission on the said book with the members of the AccessD list. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Thu Sep 1 19:17:11 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:17:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION References: <43180733.27202.965D38A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ..well if I wrote any you can use it anyway you see fit ...else I'd not have posted it to the list in the first place ...did I ever mention hating lawyers and snakes equally? ...but I'd not step on a snake, eh :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:02 PM Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION > On 1 Sep 2005 at 10:17, John W. Colby wrote: > > I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the > AccessD list in a printed book as long as they share some of the second > million they make in commission on the said book with the members of the > AccessD list. > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 19:26:33 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:26:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update Message-ID: The beforeupdate of the form is happening because you have made a change to a field and then clicked on that pesky button, which must be on a different form or this wouldn't happen. The minute you leave the form containing the changed value, it triggers an update. Of course, you could use an unbound form .... ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update For the record, this is why I hate bound forms ;)... the only reason I'm using it this way is because it's a data entry screen, and it can hold on to data if the connection were to be severed, this has happend to me because our of our NOTwork.. :( On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > If you have changed the control then the value in it should be > whatever you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control > has actually occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue > property until the Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property > of a control is only available when the control has the focus, so it > won't be available from the command button. Button clicks can > intervene in the normal sequence of events, so if you change a value > in the control and then click a button without leaving the control, > the button click happens first, before the events of the control you > changed. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Sep 1 20:58:17 2005 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:58:17 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls References: <200509010801.j8181ER12524@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006e01c5af61$cded80f0$6601a8c0@user> Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - and when we came here to Oz and he saw people proudly displaying their stickers "I'm am member of the Pajero Club" I practically had to pick him up off the footpath..... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:01 PM Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls This is perhaps a day early, since it's humourous, but it is also on point for those of use who attempt to market internationally. 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels depicting the contents, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi Brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 1 21:47:20 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:47:20 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls In-Reply-To: <006e01c5af61$cded80f0$6601a8c0@user> Message-ID: <431849D8.26560.A6A27A5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 2 Sep 2005 at 11:58, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new > Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - > and when we came here to Oz and A lot of it rather puerile, but there are some gems here: http://www.dazbert.co.uk/sites/rudefood/ -- Stuart From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Sep 1 22:18:30 2005 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:18:30 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls References: <431849D8.26560.A6A27A5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000d01c5af6c$fef82050$6601a8c0@user> ROTFL!!!!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: Re:OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls On 2 Sep 2005 at 11:58, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new > Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - > and when we came here to Oz and A lot of it rather puerile, but there are some gems here: http://www.dazbert.co.uk/sites/rudefood/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Sep 1 22:20:10 2005 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:20:10 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls References: <431849D8.26560.A6A27A5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001501c5af6d$3a6d39e0$6601a8c0@user> ....I don't think I can get over the Creamy Collon!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: Re:OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls On 2 Sep 2005 at 11:58, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new > Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - > and when we came here to Oz and A lot of it rather puerile, but there are some gems here: http://www.dazbert.co.uk/sites/rudefood/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 22:37:55 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:37:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: It couldn't be simpler than this, the form is bound to a view, the view source is "Select * From MyTable Where ADE <> 3" When the button is clicked it automatically fires the form's before update... ARG... the before update runs a CheckRRNumber function which checks the current line's information, that way I can assign the current line an RR number when the line item is created, if the current line has the same sn as another lineitem in the list, then I populate the RR number with the pre-existing number. "IF" the SN of the new line is diffrent then I make a round trip to the server to purchase a new line item. Private Sub cmdDELETE_Click() Me.txtADE = 3 Me.Form.Refresh End Sub Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) If Nz(Me.txtCPN, "") <> "" Then CheckRRNumber Else Cancel = True Me.Undo End If End Sub On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and form > events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. > > -- > Stuart -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 2 00:40:43 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:40:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4318727B.15018.B08E334@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 1 Sep 2005 at 20:37, Francisco Tapia wrote: > It couldn't be simpler than this, the form is bound to a view, the view > source is > "Select * From MyTable Where ADE <> 3" > > When the button is clicked it automatically fires the form's before > update... ARG... That's because you tell it to fire the update with Me.Form.Refresh. The Refresh method immediately updates the records in the underlying record source for a specified form or datasheet to reflect changes made to the data by you and other users in a multiuser environment. >the before update runs a CheckRRNumber function which > checks the current line's information, that way I can assign the current > line an RR number when the line item is created, if the current line has the > same sn as another lineitem in the list, then I populate the RR number with > the pre-existing number. "IF" the SN of the new line is diffrent then I make > a round trip to the server to purchase a new line item. > > Private Sub cmdDELETE_Click() > Me.txtADE = 3 > Me.Form.Refresh > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) > If Nz(Me.txtCPN, "") <> "" Then > CheckRRNumber > Else > Cancel = True > Me.Undo > End If > End Sub > > On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > > > > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and form > > events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 01:09:48 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:09:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm getting ready to move up to Access 2003 for production, so this will be excitingly easy as an unbound form. and I do completely agree w/ you on that. I noticed 2003 behaves so well w/ Sql Server 2000 as a Data Project, :) On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > The beforeupdate of the form is happening because you have made a change > to a field and then clicked on that pesky button, which must be on a > different form or this wouldn't happen. The minute you leave the form > containing the changed value, it triggers an update. Of course, you > could use an unbound form .... ;-} > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > For the record, this is why I hate bound forms ;)... > > the only reason I'm using it this way is because it's a data entry > screen, > and it can hold on to data if the connection were to be severed, this > has > happend to me because our of our NOTwork.. :( > > > On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > > > If you have changed the control then the value in it should be > > whatever you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control > > has actually occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue > > property until the Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property > > of a control is only available when the control has the focus, so it > > won't be available from the command button. Button clicks can > > intervene in the normal sequence of events, so if you change a value > > in the control and then click a button without leaving the control, > > the button click happens first, before the events of the control you > > changed. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 2 02:06:16 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:06:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? Message-ID: Hi Greg Another option is to resize the form to exactly fill the screen area. /gustav -- However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears in the upper right hand corner. Or is there another way to set that property? Greg From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 14:37:03 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:37:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: <4318727B.15018.B08E334@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4318727B.15018.B08E334@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's what I thought too, but the before update occurs twice, when the field is changed to =3 and then again w/ the refresh, I ended up taking the before update out... and going with a sql server insert trigger :) http://sqlthis.blogspot.com/2005/09/accesssqlhow-to-satisfy-underlying.html On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 20:37, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > It couldn't be simpler than this, the form is bound to a view, the view > > source is > > "Select * From MyTable Where ADE <> 3" > > > > When the button is clicked it automatically fires the form's before > > update... ARG... > > That's because you tell it to fire the update with Me.Form.Refresh. > > > The Refresh method immediately updates the records in the underlying > record > source for a specified form or datasheet to reflect changes made to the > data by you and other users in a multiuser environment. > > > > >the before update runs a CheckRRNumber function which > > checks the current line's information, that way I can assign the current > > line an RR number when the line item is created, if the current line has > the > > same sn as another lineitem in the list, then I populate the RR number > with > > the pre-existing number. "IF" the SN of the new line is diffrent then I > make > > a round trip to the server to purchase a new line item. > > > > Private Sub cmdDELETE_Click() > > Me.txtADE = 3 > > Me.Form.Refresh > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) > > If Nz(Me.txtCPN, "") <> "" Then > > CheckRRNumber > > Else > > Cancel = True > > Me.Undo > > End If > > End Sub > > > > On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a > hidden > > > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > > > > > > > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and > form > > > events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -Francisco > > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 2 17:38:00 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Friday Humor Message-ID: <20050902223800.26108.qmail@web80810.mail.yahoo.com> Have a great holiday weekend!!! A blonde woman was speeding down the road in her little red sports car and was pulled over by a woman police officer, who was also a blonde. The blonde cop asked to see the blonde driver's license. She dug through her purse and was getting progressively more agitated. "What does it look like?" she finally asked. The policewoman replied, "It's square and it has your picture on it." The driver finally found a square mirror, looked at it and handed it to the policewoman. "Here it is," she said. The blonde officer looked at the mirror, then handed it back saying... "Okay, you can go. I didn't realize you were a cop." From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sat Sep 3 07:08:50 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:08:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? References: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: ..maximizing forms has some serious downsides, one of which you've noted ..have you considered using a tab control on a smaller form to make all of the controls accessible? ...or using vba to resize the form to screen size without maximizing it? William ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? > Hi everyone! > > I know we've been around this topic before, but I thought I'd see if > anyone has any definitive answers about the maximized form. > > Access 2003/XP. Form has to be maximized...there just simply is not > enough room if I don't maximize it. They wanted all this stuff on it, so > I did that, but the form must be maximized to keep it all on one screen. > > I have an exit button for them to use which does everything I want, but > the dang control box (min, max, and "X") is still there and they can close > the form using the "X" if they want and it bypasses some of the code I > need to have run on closing. And the code I need run when they exit > cannot be run if they use the "X" because it must set the form in a state > where I can't check on certain fields before I allow it to close. > > Does anyone know of any way around this? Is there some clandestine (or > non-clandestine...) way to disable that control box? Or at least hide it? > I do have full Access security set up in this database, so the users > can't get anywhere they're not supposed to go, but that doesn't stop them > from closing this form using the control box if they can see it. > > MTIA! > > Greg Smith > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Sat Sep 3 14:08:06 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:08:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] GoTo Control command? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509031908.j83J88R27067@databaseadvisors.com> Assume (gasp) a form with N subforms, and said master form open in design mode. Is there a command "GoTo Control"? In my perfect world, it would search the current form then the subforms, finally either arriving at the desired control or yelling at me that no such control exists. I would want said command to be scoped by the current form and its subforms, else I might end up on an unrelated form. TIA, Arthur From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Sun Sep 4 09:47:39 2005 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:47:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete Message-ID: <431AD0CB.2128.3CF811@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> The list software upgrade went as smoothly as it ever has and was upgraded without a hitch. I think all totalled the lists were down for less than 10 minutes. Have a wonderful rest of the weekend. Your Listmaster, -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com A feature is a bug with seniority. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Sep 4 09:52:35 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 15:52:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete In-Reply-To: <431AD0CB.2128.3CF811@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000001c5b160$49c82f40$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> Thanks as always for your work Bryan. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Bryan Carbonnell > Sent: 04 September 2005 15:48 > To: administrivia at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete > > > The list software upgrade went as smoothly as it ever has and was > upgraded without a hitch. > > I think all totalled the lists were down for less than 10 minutes. > > Have a wonderful rest of the weekend. > > Your Listmaster, > > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com > A feature is a bug with seniority. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun Sep 4 10:02:58 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:02:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete In-Reply-To: <000001c5b160$49c82f40$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> References: <431AD0CB.2128.3CF811@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 4 Sep 2005 at 15:52, Andy Lacey wrote: > Thanks as always for your work Bryan. My pleasure Andy. It gave me something to do on a boring Sunday Morning. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca A good friend will come bail you out of jail.... but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn... We ****ed up." From artful at rogers.com Sun Sep 4 11:20:42 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:20:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referring to a control on a subform In-Reply-To: <000001c5b160$49c82f40$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <200509041620.j84GKlT19356@databaseadvisors.com> It seems I cannot recall how you refer to a control on a subform. I want to do a couple of different things. In each case, assume that the code is in the parent form's module. a) set focus to a control on the subform With Me .subformName.Form.ControlName.SetFocus 'is this how? End With b) call a procedure in the subform's module... I assume I have to change it from a Private to a Public sub, but what syntax do I use to call the sub from outside? Is it With Me Call .subformName.ProcedureName End With c) set a control's value in the subform to a specified value. Is it With Me .subformName.Form.ControlName = 12345 End With TIA, Arthur From shamil at users.mns.ru Sun Sep 4 12:18:21 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 21:18:21 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referring to a control on a subform References: <200509041620.j84GKlT19356@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006001c5b174$a75d9d20$6501a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > a) set focus to a control on the subform Are you talking run- or design- time? Run-time: 1. set focus to form using form's .SetFocus method 2. set focus to first parent subform's control using subform control's .SetFocus method [3. set focus to the second(nested) parent subform's control (if any) using nested subform control's .SetFocus method] 4. set focus to control using control's .SetFocus method Wtih Me .SetFocus ' no need if form has focus .subformControlName.SetFocus ..subformControlName.Form.ControlName.SetFocus end With Design-time: I don't know.(It should be possible to do that using WinAPI or I guess there could be undocumented feature, which I don't know about). > b) call a procedure in the subform's module... Yes, it should be public (exception is when it's a function/sub implementing object interface). Syntax: With Me .subformControlName.Form.MethodName... End With > c) set a control's value in the subform to a specified value. Is it With Me .subformControlName.Form.ControlName.Value = 12345 End With When you write .subformName do you mean subform's control name or ... ? HTH, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 8:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Referring to a control on a subform > It seems I cannot recall how you refer to a control on a subform. I want to > do a couple of different things. In each case, assume that the code is in > the parent form's module. > a) set focus to a control on the subform > With Me > .subformName.Form.ControlName.SetFocus 'is this how? > End With > b) call a procedure in the subform's module... I assume I have to change it > from a Private to a Public sub, but what syntax do I use to call the sub > from outside? Is it > With Me > Call .subformName.ProcedureName > End With > c) set a control's value in the subform to a specified value. Is it > With Me > .subformName.Form.ControlName = 12345 > End With > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Sep 4 18:22:51 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:22:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <0IMB00B4AFLZVV@l-daemon> Hi John: Sounds like it will be perfectly acceptable to the Database Advisors... and me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sun Sep 4 22:45:23 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:45:23 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Sep 4 23:02:34 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:02:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <431C4FFA.6192.1A21FFC5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 5 Sep 2005 at 15:45, David Emerson wrote: > I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last > page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then > I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. > > How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't > use something like > > If me.page = me.pages then ... > > because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one > of the group headers. > Can you set it in the Report_footer? -- Stuart From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Sep 5 00:57:38 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:57:38 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report In-Reply-To: <431C4FFA.6192.1A21FFC5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <431C4FFA.6192.1A21FFC5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905175454.03130b20@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I tried using the Format event, but it seems that the page Footer event fires after the report footer (I have yet to confirm this using msg boxes in each event) David At 5/09/2005, you wrote: >On 5 Sep 2005 at 15:45, David Emerson wrote: > > > I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last > > page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then > > I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. > > > > How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't > > use something like > > > > If me.page = me.pages then ... > > > > because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one > > of the group headers. > > > >Can you set it in the Report_footer? > > >-- >Stuart > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 5 02:44:14 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:44:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report Message-ID: Hi David Add the page count to another (static) variable before you reset the page counter. If you preview the report and browse it, the plot thickens ... /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 05-09-2005 05:45 >>> I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Sep 5 03:32:02 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 9:32:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report Message-ID: <20050905083200.7A7DB2550F0@smtp.nildram.co.uk> What I'd suggest David is do your own page numbering then you can use me.page=me.pages to do the test at the end. Just Dim a long (lngPage) at the top of the report, set it to 1 in OnOpen, reset it to 1 in the OnPrint of the group footer, and then, in the OnPrint of the PageHeader set the visible page number control to the value of lngPage and increment it by 1. Don't forget to create an invisible control of = Pages or Access doesn't evaluate the page count. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "accessd at databaseadvisors.com" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Last page of Report Date: 05/09/05 07:46 Hi David Add the page count to another (static) variable before you reset the page counter. If you preview the report and browse it, the plot thickens ... /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 05-09-2005 05:45 >>> I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 5 04:13:09 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:13:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings Message-ID: Hi all Just noticed this tip in Access Advisor Sep. issue which I haven't heard of before: In the Property sheet, if a property has fixed options you can double-click on either the title or the setting to cycle through the options; for a Yes/No property this will, of course, simply reverse the setting. The author, David Macmurchie, claims this to work since Access 2.0 but that is not true. I haven't tested in A95 (won't run on my GB ram machine) but from A97 the tip is valid. /gustav From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Sep 5 04:52:47 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:52:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings References: Message-ID: <006e01c5b1ff$95f119f0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Gustav, No, it doesn't work in MS Access 2.0. I do use this "trick" since MS Access 97 by double-clicking on a property's value area but I didn't know the same effect can be achieved by double-clicking on a property's title area :) Thank you for this tip's info! Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 1:13 PM Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings > Hi all > > Just noticed this tip in Access Advisor Sep. issue which I haven't > heard of before: > > In the Property sheet, if a property has fixed options you can > double-click on either the title or the setting to cycle through the > options; for a Yes/No property this will, of course, simply reverse the > setting. > > The author, David Macmurchie, claims this to work since Access 2.0 but > that is not true. I haven't tested in A95 (won't run on my GB ram > machine) but from A97 the tip is valid. > > /gustav > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Sep 5 04:51:25 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:51:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings Message-ID: <20050905095123.11EFE24FA03@smtp.nildram.co.uk> So you can. There's a little nugget of info. Thanks Gustav. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "accessd at databaseadvisors.com" Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings Date: 05/09/05 09:14 Hi all Just noticed this tip in Access Advisor Sep. issue which I haven't heard of before: In the Property sheet, if a property has fixed options you can double-click on either the title or the setting to cycle through the options; for a Yes/No property this will, of course, simply reverse the setting. The author, David Macmurchie, claims this to work since Access 2.0 but that is not true. I haven't tested in A95 (won't run on my GB ram machine) but from A97 the tip is valid. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Sep 5 07:04:56 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:34:56 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <005301c5b212$85b4eef0$f51865cb@winxp> David, Sample code block given below will keep track of actual page count at all times, via global variable PgCount, irrespective of multiple interference to [Page] value caused by resetting it repeatedly to 1. You can test for last page by the following style of expression. If PgCount = Me.Pages then ... Note - Please make sure that in Event tab of report's properties dialog box, [Event Procedure] appears against the events used in the code below. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================== ' Declare Global variable for tracking page count Private PgCount As Long Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) PgCount = 1 End Sub Private Sub Report_Page() PgCount = PgCount + 1 End Sub ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 09:15 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Sep 5 09:36:52 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:36:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News Message-ID: <004701c5b227$41b9c710$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the future: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html Rocky From colin.spence at centrelink.gov.au Mon Sep 5 10:03:09 2005 From: colin.spence at centrelink.gov.au (colin.spence at centrelink.gov.au) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:03:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Colin Spence/NSO/CSDA is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 05/09/2005 and will not return until 23/09/2005. I am on leave for 3 weeks. If the matter is urgent please contact Terry Bissell (383208) otherwise please contact Ray Paquola (after the 11th), Tiffany Tang or John Slokan. ********************************************************************** IMPORTANT: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ********************************************************************** From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 5 10:51:01 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:51:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 Message-ID: Hi all As to the recent threads on XML, here are some notes on how IBM adds XML support to the core of the DB2 query parser and extends SQL to directly handle, store, and index XML data without transformation: http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100937 This is still in beta but is planned for the next major release. /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 5 16:15:29 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:15:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News In-Reply-To: <004701c5b227$41b9c710$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <0IMD0000H4DQSM@l-daemon> Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the future: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 5 16:29:49 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:29:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMD0016251M4H@l-daemon> Just when we all are looking towards post-relational databases along comes hierarchal/relational hybrids. Push them on a main-frame and I good to go. Fascinating... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 8:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 Hi all As to the recent threads on XML, here are some notes on how IBM adds XML support to the core of the DB2 query parser and extends SQL to directly handle, store, and index XML data without transformation: http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100937 This is still in beta but is planned for the next major release. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Mon Sep 5 16:47:10 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:47:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News References: <0IMD0000H4DQSM@l-daemon> Message-ID: ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less write code with them? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the > future: > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Sep 5 16:56:59 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:56:59 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report In-Reply-To: <005301c5b212$85b4eef0$f51865cb@winxp> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <005301c5b212$85b4eef0$f51865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050906095255.03138cf0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks A.D. This worked with the additional point from Andy - "Don't forget to create an invisible control of = Pages or Access doesn't evaluate the page count." Thanks to all that responded. David At 6/09/2005, you wrote: >David, > > Sample code block given below will keep track of actual page > count at all times, via global variable PgCount, irrespective of > multiple interference to [Page] value caused by resetting it repeatedly to 1. > > You can test for last page by the following style of expression. > > If PgCount = Me.Pages then ... > > Note - Please make sure that in Event tab of report's > properties dialog box, [Event Procedure] appears against the events > used in the code below. > >Best wishes, >A.D.Tejpal >-------------- > >================================== >' Declare Global variable for tracking page count >Private PgCount As Long > >Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) > PgCount = 1 >End Sub > >Private Sub Report_Page() > PgCount = PgCount + 1 >End Sub >================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 09:15 > Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report > > > I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last > page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then > I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. > > How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't > use something like > > If me.page = me.pages then ... > > because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on > one of the group headers. >-- From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 5 17:05:37 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:05:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMD004B56PBFV@l-daemon> I was just about to throw out my Fortran manuals, PL1 is gone to the great Mainframe in the sky, Cobol is too verbose but Rexx is still cool for searching and Wilbar is a form of punishment.... Edlin was much better. With all that aside, gone are the days when you could spend a week a hundred lines of code making them perfect. That is why main-frames are so reliable. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less write code with them? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the > future: > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Sep 6 00:52:24 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 06:52:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004401c5b2a7$27f494b0$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> 360 Assembler any use? And what's this zOS? In my day..... (mumble, mumble) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 05 September 2005 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less > write code with > them? :) > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, > back to the > > future: > > > > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.htm > > l > > > > Rocky > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Tue Sep 6 01:19:18 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:19:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News Message-ID: RPL, RPG, WFL and COBOL (the first object oriented language!) can all take a hike, but I feel really sad that PL1 seems to be "gorn". Now that was a well structured language, and powerful! Hacking ring zero exception handlers, woohjooo! (And you tell young people today that....) As for APL, all I can say is thank (&**&^%^&*%$#$%&T@) its gone. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Tuesday, 6 September 2005 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News 360 Assembler any use? And what's this zOS? In my day..... (mumble, mumble) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: 05 September 2005 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less write code > with them? :) > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, > back to the > > future: > > > > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.htm > > l > > > > Rocky > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 6 11:04:25 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:04:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] GoTo Control command? Message-ID: It isn't magic, but I just use the control dropdown in the toolbar to select the control. That sets the focus to it. However, you won't always be able to see the control that has the focus, because it may be obscured by other controls/subforms. You can't run code in design view unless you're using an add-in of some sort. I guess you'll just have to write an add-in for this, Arthur. ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] GoTo Control command? Assume (gasp) a form with N subforms, and said master form open in design mode. Is there a command "GoTo Control"? In my perfect world, it would search the current form then the subforms, finally either arriving at the desired control or yelling at me that no such control exists. I would want said command to be scoped by the current form and its subforms, else I might end up on an unrelated form. TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 6 16:29:55 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:29:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 References: Message-ID: <431E0A53.3080209@shaw.ca> Actually a lot of this is similar to the XML datatype added to SQL Server 2005 and the use of FLOWR in XPath I haven't seen a comparision of methods between MS SQL and DB2, but both methods of storage are there. It does make for some very easy construction of recursive SQL to do BOM type querys for parts explosions. The Fundamentals of the SQL Server 2005 XML Datatype http://www.developer.com/db/article.php/10920_3531196_1 Use with ado.net http://www.developer.com/net/net/article.php/11087_3406251_1 XML Indexes in SQL Server 2005 http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsql90/html/forxml2k5.asp What's New in FOR XML in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi all > >As to the recent threads on XML, here are some notes on how IBM adds >XML support to the core of the DB2 query parser and extends SQL to >directly handle, store, and index XML data without transformation: > >http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100937 > >This is still in beta but is planned for the next major release. > >/gustav > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accma at sympatico.ca Wed Sep 7 05:38:38 2005 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, cma) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 08:11:49 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:11:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <200509071312.j87DCGT28158@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Listers, Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in production environment, however when I bring it into a development environment, the app fails. At the line of code: crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? Thanks for the help. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Sep 7 08:18:40 2005 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:18:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? In-Reply-To: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Message-ID: Annie, I personally haven't seen any documentation ( haven't really looked)...but I have a box running XP Pro...and I have A97 and A2k on this machine...I have 2g of memory and everytime I try to use A97 I get an out of memory error. So far I haven't really need A97 on that machine, so I haven't tried to find the solution. Just my 2 cents...hope it helps. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Annie Courchesne, cma" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > > > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Annie > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accma at sympatico.ca Wed Sep 7 08:26:46 2005 From: accma at sympatico.ca (accma at sympatico.ca) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 9:26:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: <20050907132646.FLPO1784.tomts32-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Hi Mark, The problem my customer have does not tell him a out of memory problem. It has more to do with the traffic on the network. Whenever A97 is running the request on the Win XP Server is sky high... That server is a much faster with more memory than the previous Win2k server. Thanks for your input! Annie > > De: "Mark A Matte" > Date: 2005/09/07 mer. AM 09:18:40 GMT-04:00 > ?: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Objet: Re: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? > > Annie, > > I personally haven't seen any documentation ( haven't really looked)...but I > have a box running XP Pro...and I have A97 and A2k on this machine...I have > 2g of memory and everytime I try to use A97 I get an out of memory error. > > So far I haven't really need A97 on that machine, so I haven't tried to find > the solution. > > Just my 2 cents...hope it helps. > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > > >From: "Annie Courchesne, cma" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving'" > >Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? > >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on > >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > > > > > > > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 > >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > > > > > > > >Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > >Annie > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 08:26:52 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:26:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: <200509071327.j87DR5T32015@databaseadvisors.com> This KB 161255 from M$ might help... http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;161255 >>> markamatte at hotmail.com 09/07/05 9:18 AM >>> Annie, I personally haven't seen any documentation ( haven't really looked)...but I have a box running XP Pro...and I have A97 and A2k on this machine...I have 2g of memory and everytime I try to use A97 I get an out of memory error. So far I haven't really need A97 on that machine, so I haven't tried to find the solution. Just my 2 cents...hope it helps. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Annie Courchesne, cma" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > > > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Annie > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 7 08:40:19 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:40:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login In-Reply-To: <200509071312.j87DCGT28158@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <0IMG008388N5UP@l-daemon> Hi Randall: Have you tested the SQL server separately to see if you can login using user name Bob... I am assuming you are not using not using Windows authentications. If that works, test to see that Crystal Report components are working and installed on the customer's computer and registered in your application. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Anthony Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Hi Listers, Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in production environment, however when I bring it into a development environment, the app fails. At the line of code: crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? Thanks for the help. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 7 08:46:51 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:46:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? In-Reply-To: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Message-ID: <0IMG00B278Y1CK@l-daemon> Hi Anne: I used an A97 application on a XP network for years. The app may not have been the standard as I did not use an MDB DB and wrote my own data connections.... but it worked steadily with a fair group of users. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, cma Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 3:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 09:18:54 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:18:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <200509071419.j87EJ8T23080@databaseadvisors.com> Jim, Your first paragraph has been verified. However, it's the second I'm having problems with. I've changed the datasource with a different login to the report, yet I still get the error 'login failed for "bob"'... It's like I'm overlooking a switch or something. I'm assuming if I see the references in the list, they're registered? I've got CR 9 ActiveX Designer and Runtime Lib, CR 9 ActiveX Designer Runtime Lib and CR Report Viewer Control 9. >>> accessd at shaw.ca 09/07/05 9:40 AM >>> Hi Randall: Have you tested the SQL server separately to see if you can login using user name Bob... I am assuming you are not using not using Windows authentications. If that works, test to see that Crystal Report components are working and installed on the customer's computer and registered in your application. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Anthony Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Hi Listers, Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in production environment, however when I bring it into a development environment, the app fails. At the line of code: crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? Thanks for the help. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 7 10:10:30 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:10:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: I've used A97 on a variety of Oss, including WinXP Pro without any problems, and "performance problem" is awfully vague. You mention the server, but surely you aren't running Access on the server, are you? What version of A97 and Jet are you running? There are separate service packs for each. If you give us more specific information, you're more likely to get some useful suggestions. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Annie Courchesne, cma [mailto:accma at sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 3:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie From chizotz at mchsi.com Wed Sep 7 10:21:38 2005 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:21:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <090720051521.26531.431F0581000E5BF7000067A32197924741969B019607080C@mchsi.com> Crystal is buggy as a beehive and has its own ideas about a bunch of stuff, meaning it tends to not play nice a lot of the time. It sounds like you're opening a report that has an embedded login that is overridden in the application so it runs fine in production but when you open it up to work on it in a dev environment the embedded login takes over. But that's just a guess. I've had this and all sorts of other hassles with Crystal. Good luck using it, it's not the friendliest of help sites, but here is the Crystal KB. http://support.businessobjects.com/search/default.asp?ref=default.asp_shortcuts > Hi Listers, > Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in > production environment, however when I bring it into a development > environment, the app fails. > > At the line of code: > > crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the > 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored > procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking > the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? > > Thanks for the help. From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 10:38:05 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <200509071538.j87FcLT11460@databaseadvisors.com> "It sounds like you're opening a report that has an embedded login that is overridden in the application so it runs fine in production but when you open it up to work on it in a dev environment the embedded login takes over" ... is exactly what I am suspecting. Thanks for that link, I'm off to investigate. >>> chizotz at mchsi.com 09/07/05 11:21 AM >>> Crystal is buggy as a beehive and has its own ideas about a bunch of stuff, meaning it tends to not play nice a lot of the time. It sounds like you're opening a report that has an embedded login that is overridden in the application so it runs fine in production but when you open it up to work on it in a dev environment the embedded login takes over. But that's just a guess. I've had this and all sorts of other hassles with Crystal. Good luck using it, it's not the friendliest of help sites, but here is the Crystal KB. http://support.businessobjects.com/search/default.asp?ref=default.asp_shortcuts > Hi Listers, > Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in > production environment, however when I bring it into a development > environment, the app fails. > > At the line of code: > > crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the > 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored > procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking > the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? > > Thanks for the help. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 7 11:07:59 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:07:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average Message-ID: I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 7 12:11:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:11:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Message-ID: <00eb01c5b3cf$44336bf0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Sep 7 12:21:35 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:51:35 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average References: Message-ID: <00ac01c5b3d0$b34462a0$4b1865cb@winxp> Chester, For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS RunningAvg FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 7 12:30:21 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:30:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Message-ID: LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 7 12:42:16 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:42:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00f501c5b3d3$8279f830$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 7 13:07:00 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:07:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average Message-ID: This works great for a running average but guess I did not make myself clear. What I need is a moving 3 month average. For example if I am on record 3 average records 1, 2 and 3. If I am on record 4 average records 2, 3 and 4 etc. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average Chester, For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS RunningAvg FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Sep 7 13:43:47 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:13:47 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average References: Message-ID: <041001c5b3dc$2d1783e0$4b1865cb@winxp> Chester, Sample query given below, should get the moving average (for three months) of field named Qty in table T_MA. SMonth is number type field representing month. It is presumed that there are no holes in month values. Otherwise, you will have to get the running count of months in a preliminary query and use that as the source for final query. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ===================================== SELECT T_MA.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_MA AS T1 Where T1.SMonth >= T_MA.SMonth - 2 And T1.SMonth <= T_MA.SMonth) AS MovingAvg FROM T_MA ORDER BY T_MA.SMonth; ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 23:37 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average This works great for a running average but guess I did not make myself clear. What I need is a moving 3 month average. For example if I am on record 3 average records 1, 2 and 3. If I am on record 4 average records 2, 3 and 4 etc. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average Chester, For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS RunningAvg FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Sep 7 15:33:52 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:33:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book References: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <431F4EB0.5020906@torchlake.com> John Colby and Martin Reid have my permission to use any email questions or answers I have ever sent to the AccessD list. I only hope that I was ever able to help someone else; it seems I am always receiving help. Three cheers for you two!!!!! Tina Norris Fields John W. Colby wrote: >Folks, > >Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a >"real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions >found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties >to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" >lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > >Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / >solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be >acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will >at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following >people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". >I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / >solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. > >At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their >solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to >AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a >sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use >my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 7 21:52:10 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:52:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers In-Reply-To: <00f501c5b3d3$8279f830$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, Never sure if my answers are of use to the great JC (stop that head swelling but have you looked at the robot stuff Radio Shack is selling? Signed Humble Student Joe -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Thu Sep 8 01:07:06 2005 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:07:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5EAB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> John if I understand well, we gonna see you in a couple of years with your son on TV in Robot Wars? The show runs on BBC television and I believe in the states to. Where a team, useualy father and son(s) build a robot (about 1 meter in size) with weapons on it to fight with other teams robots. Looks like a lot of fun building itn and see your robot, during the clash, falling in to the pit of fire getting fried by a flam trower... You would need some good electronics, mechanical and pneumatical skills :-( And probably some military tactics to.. Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John W. Colby Verzonden: woensdag 7 september 2005 19:42 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Thu Sep 8 11:59:31 2005 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:59:31 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Message-ID: <200509080959.j889xWXp006723@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, i developed a database in the last years, that now gives me troubles, because i now get frequently error messages, that i can't explain. I don't know if it is corrupt or that the structure isn't good. Thes errors are in one form which has many subforms, expressions, relations to other forms and writes its data throught a query in 5 tabels which are all related. This form worked 2 times half a year with no troubles, but now after several errors and copying data from the recent backend and past it into a backup, it gives to much troubles. I want to get it on the road again by writing the data to textfiles and import it in the original backend. But i would also take a better look at the structure. Because of that i want to ask if there is somebody who wants to take a look at the structure if the part of the database that gives the errror. I could strip the front and backend to the essantials and then mail it directly. Who has the time to help me out? Pedro Janssen From cyx5 at cdc.gov Thu Sep 8 06:25:55 2005 From: cyx5 at cdc.gov (Nicholson, Karen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:25:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Message-ID: I can do it for you. If you zip me the file, change the extension to .zzz so my server can accept it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:00 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Hello Group, i developed a database in the last years, that now gives me troubles, because i now get frequently error messages, that i can't explain. I don't know if it is corrupt or that the structure isn't good. Thes errors are in one form which has many subforms, expressions, relations to other forms and writes its data throught a query in 5 tabels which are all related. This form worked 2 times half a year with no troubles, but now after several errors and copying data from the recent backend and past it into a backup, it gives to much troubles. I want to get it on the road again by writing the data to textfiles and import it in the original backend. But i would also take a better look at the structure. Because of that i want to ask if there is somebody who wants to take a look at the structure if the part of the database that gives the errror. I could strip the front and backend to the essantials and then mail it directly. Who has the time to help me out? Pedro Janssen -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Sep 8 06:41:09 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:41:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: Yeah, I never thought about the question part of it. I never seem to get any good answers in...whenever I do know the solution to something, I'm always beat to the punch. But, I have been on the receiving end of some really nice solutions. I'm sure you'll need my approval, but just in case, you have it. You both have helped me in the past, so it is the least I can do. Good Luck! John W Clark >>> tinanfields at torchlake.com 9/7/2005 4:33 PM >>> John Colby and Martin Reid have my permission to use any email questions or answers I have ever sent to the AccessD list. I only hope that I was ever able to help someone else; it seems I am always receiving help. Three cheers for you two!!!!! Tina Norris Fields John W. Colby wrote: >Folks, > >Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a >"real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions >found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties >to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" >lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > >Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / >solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be >acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will >at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following >people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". >I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / >solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. > >At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their >solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to >AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a >sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use >my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Thu Sep 8 13:44:58 2005 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:44:58 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Message-ID: <200509081144.j88Biw4i011439@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Karen, I will strip the database this weekend and will send it to you. Thanks for the help. Pedro Janssen In antwoord op: > From: "Nicholson, Karen" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:25:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] need help on structure > > > I can do it for you. If you zip me the file, change the extension to > ..zzz so my server can accept it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:00 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure > > > Hello Group, > > i developed a database in the last years, that now gives me troubles, > because i now get frequently error messages, that i can't explain. I > don't know if it is corrupt or that the structure isn't good. Thes > errors are in one form which has many subforms, expressions, relations > to other forms and writes its data throught a query in 5 tabels which > are all related. This form worked 2 times half a year with no troubles, > but now after several errors and copying data from the recent backend > and past it into a backup, it gives to much troubles. > > I want to get it on the road again by writing the data to textfiles and > import it in the original backend. But i would also take a better look > at the structure. Because of that i want to ask if there is somebody who > wants to take a look at the structure if the part of the database that > gives the errror. I could strip the front and backend to the essantials > and then mail it directly. > > Who has the time to help me out? > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Sep 8 06:44:28 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:44:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: This, from the man who has been my savior more times than I can count ;) JW Clark >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 9/1/2005 11:34 AM >>> Hi Martin and John Well, I've received much help from the list through the years, so could we consider this as payback time? "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book with a royalty split as described below". /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 01-09-2005 16:17 >>> Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu Sep 8 09:11:12 2005 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:11:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF48607780579B6FF@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Could someone explain to me how to get a autonumber assigned to a record as soon as the form is opened for data input. Right now when I open the form it will not show me or assign an autonumber until I enter data in the first field. I want the number to be assigned and shown when the form opens. TIA for any help provided. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu Sep 8 09:42:07 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:42:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <20050908144204.A1F1F24E945@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Date: 08/09/05 14:13 Could someone explain to me how to get a autonumber assigned to a record as soon as the form is opened for data input. Right now when I open the form it will not show me or assign an autonumber until I enter data in the first field. I want the number to be assigned and shown when the form opens. TIA for any help provided. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu Sep 8 09:58:07 2005 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:58:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF48607780579B701@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Thanks Andy, that is exactly what I needed. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Date: 08/09/05 14:13 Could someone explain to me how to get a autonumber assigned to a record as soon as the form is opened for data input. Right now when I open the form it will not show me or assign an autonumber until I enter data in the first field. I want the number to be assigned and shown when the form opens. TIA for any help provided. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 09:58:17 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:58:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908144204.A1F1F24E945@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <20050908145819.NIJ4982.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu Sep 8 10:19:52 2005 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077801088A@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> I know it sounded weird, but technically the record did already exsist, the user makes the decision to go ahead and create the record and I pull info from other tables and information that they selected from a prior form and bring it over to the Invoice screen. All the needed fields were automatically filled in for the user, I was just not getting the number assigned so that the user can see it. So the On Current that Andy suggested works like a charm. I hope I made sense with that :-) Thanks again Andy Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 8 10:22:35 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:22:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A460A3@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Or why he even shows the autonumber value on the form. If the users need to know what the number is then it has a meaning in addition to its proper use as a record identifier (Primary Key). So in fact this field with a meaning to the users (or the real world) should be a separate field in the table, not an autonumber. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 10:31:11 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:31:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it should not be treated as meaningful. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gowey Mike W [mailto:Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I know it sounded weird, but technically the record did already exsist, the user makes the decision to go ahead and create the record and I pull info from other tables and information that they selected from a prior form and bring it over to the Invoice screen. All the needed fields were automatically filled in for the user, I was just not getting the number assigned so that the user can see it. So the On Current that Andy suggested works like a charm. I hope I made sense with that :-) Thanks again Andy Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 10:46:15 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:46:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables and > populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > should not be treated as meaningful. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Sep 8 10:49:28 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:49:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: FW: DateDiff problem in a query _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Sep 8 10:58:48 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:58:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CD58@natexch.jenkens.com> You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: FW: DateDiff problem in a query _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 11:04:14 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:04:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > should not be treated as meaningful. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:06:29 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:06:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict Message-ID: I have a linked table to a sql server database... there are "NO Triggers" on this table. I can insert new data without any issues. I cannot edit any data via Access at all. The OS is Windows 2003 the sql server is Sql2000 SP3. If I open up the table via EM I can edit the record w/o any issues, if I update the table using QA it updates again no problems, the problem w/ the writeconflict is only when I use an Access 2000 or Access 2003 Linked table. any clues? -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... (Gmail Invites available) From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:14:59 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:14:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Francisco, Have you checked if the table has a TimeStamp Column (I said to myself). When I checked and the answer was no, I quickly added it and refreshed the Access Link, and now it works fine in both Access2000 and Access2003. Wierd eh?... btw thanks! On 9/8/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > I have a linked table to a sql server database... there are "NO > Triggers" on this table. > > I can insert new data without any issues. I cannot edit any data via > Access at all. The OS is Windows 2003 the sql server is Sql2000 SP3. > > If I open up the table via EM I can edit the record w/o any issues, if > I update the table using QA it updates again no problems, the problem > w/ the writeconflict is only when I use an Access 2000 or Access 2003 > Linked table. > > any clues? > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > (Gmail Invites available) > From john at winhaven.net Thu Sep 8 11:18:53 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:18:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? In-Reply-To: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Message-ID: <200509081618.j88GIvT16914@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Annie, I am running Access 97 on WinXP with WinXP pro PCs acting as servers and with W2k3 Servers. No Problems. Are you running the Access Program through the network? If so this is not the ideal manner in which to run Access and it will be problematic with any version of Windows. However if you are describing a connection from an Access application to an Access(.mdb) database on a server, we should be able to help you resolve the issue. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, cma Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Sep 8 11:20:50 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:20:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 11:24:34 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:24:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, > period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you > have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After > all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. > I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently > have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several > local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into > a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. > We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find > a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 8 11:27:18 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:27:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5b492$2f685a00$6401a8c0@laptop1> John, Martin, If by some chance my name makes the cut, feel free to use it. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:56:11 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:56:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doh!... Your google-fu is much better than mine ;) On 9/8/05, Roger.Carlson at spectrum-health.org < Roger.Carlson at spectrum-health.org> wrote: > > The underlying issue may be that you have a Null Bit field. See this: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/280730/EN-US/ > > Adding a timestamp is one of the solutions. Another is to create a default > value for the field. > > --Roger Carlson > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Microsoft Access Database Discussion List > [mailto:ACCESS-L at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM]On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:15 PM > To: ACCESS-L at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM > Subject: Re: Write Conflict > > > Hey Francisco, > Have you checked if the table has a TimeStamp Column (I said to myself). > > > When I checked and the answer was no, I quickly added it and refreshed > the Access Link, and now it works fine in both Access2000 and > Access2003. > > Wierd eh?... btw thanks! > > On 9/8/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > I have a linked table to a sql server database... there are "NO > > Triggers" on this table. > > > > I can insert new data without any issues. I cannot edit any data via > > Access at all. The OS is Windows 2003 the sql server is Sql2000 SP3. > > > > If I open up the table via EM I can edit the record w/o any issues, if > > I update the table using QA it updates again no problems, the problem > > w/ the writeconflict is only when I use an Access 2000 or Access 2003 > > Linked table. > > > > any clues? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -Francisco > > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > > (Gmail Invites available) > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The ACCESS-L list is hosted on a Windows(R) 2000 Server running L-Soft > international's LISTSERV(R) software. For subscription/signoff info > and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/access-l.html . > COPYRIGHT INFO: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SHOWTPL=COPYRIGHT&L=ACCESS-L > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Sep 8 11:56:19 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:56:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B747349016DF77@main2.marlow.com> I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, > period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you > have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After > all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. > I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently > have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several > local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into > a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. > We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find > a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 12:12:52 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B747349016DF77@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20050908171252.68102.qmail@web80808.mail.yahoo.com> I thought you use the heel of a shoe? :P -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. Charlotte Foust From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 8 12:46:15 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:46:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? References: <200509081618.j88GIvT16914@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <432078E7.3030903@shaw.ca> I am running Access97 on WinXP, I have shifted references to use DAO 3.60 DAO 3.51 Jet Service Packs stopped at SP4, DAO 3.60 has been upgraded to SP 8 You will get about a 10% slowdown doing this as DAO 3.60 uses unicode 3.51 ANSI. and you are switching between Jet 3.5 and 4.0 But you will remove a lot of possible error conditions through the SP's. You can also get slowdowns due to a build up of data cache errors in the Backend MichKa (Michael Kaplan) made a statement that forced me to rethink this aspect. He said "For linked tables, there is a LOT of info cached by Jet in the link as an optimization. However, sometimes backend changes are made and that cached info is not invalidated as it should be, and it causes a huge perf hit as Jet tries things that fail (at which point you hit bug#2, which is that it does not invalidate it here either). I have seen cases where even RefreshLink would not totally make this work right. "The fix? If this is the problem? You should completely delete the links in the frontend, then after making sure you have recently compacted the backend, relink all the tables." Another point One common performance problems in Access - LDB locking which a persistent recordset connection fixes When the symptoms encountered indicate that performance is acceptable with a single user in the database but drops significantly when two or more users are in thedatabase, the problem may be caused by interaction with the LDB file. To resolve this issue we need a persistent connection to the back-end from each of the front-end workstations. This can be done using a bound form (hidden)which is always open or by keeping a recordset open from the BE at all times via global variable pointer to recordset .. John Bartow wrote: >Hi Annie, >I am running Access 97 on WinXP with WinXP pro PCs acting as servers and >with W2k3 Servers. No Problems. > >Are you running the Access Program through the network? If so this is not >the ideal manner in which to run Access and it will be problematic with any >version of Windows. > >However if you are describing a connection from an Access application to an >Access(.mdb) database on a server, we should be able to help you resolve the >issue. > >John B. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, >cma > >Hi, > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > >Thanks! > >Annie > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 8 13:18:36 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:18:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723377F6@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Same here Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhecht at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book John, Martin, If by some chance my name makes the cut, feel free to use it. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 8 14:15:39 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:15:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A461BD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your 'just want a unique number', but come the day that "the management" (or "the new guy") steps in and says "it's essential that we have a consistent numbering scheme in all of our case records. It must adhere to the following rules...", then your use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea because you have *no control* over them. Then you will be forced into generating the 'numbers' in code, so you might as well do it from the beginning. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at otda.state.ny.us Thu Sep 8 14:27:15 2005 From: Patricia.O'Connor at otda.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:27:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: <01DBAB52E30A9A4AB3D94EF8029EDBE8551E73@EXCNYSM0A1AI.nysemail.nyenet> Try something like this. SELECT t2.PID, t2.Date, t2.vm_wtri, ( Select Sum(t1.vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= t2.Date - dateadd("m",-2,t2.Date) And T1.Date <= t2.Date) AS MovingTotal, dateadd("m",-2,t2.Date) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",dateadd("m",-2,t2.Date) ,t2.Date) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] as t2 Though I wasn't sure what dates you were using because of the names. The column name was just date which is also what DATE() is. I never name DATE columns with just DATE nor do I put spaces in names. An example would be ReceiveDt or Receive_Dt - just makes things easier in the long run HTH ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Kaup, Chester > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query > > Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query > instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Elam, Debbie > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query > > You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, > Date) to get > 1 > month from the Date. > > Debbie > > > _____ > > From: Kaup, Chester > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: DateDiff problem in a query > > > > I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The > theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 > prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of > 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and > May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go > back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this > works and some it does not. The number of days back appears > to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. > > > > SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well > Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select > Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where > T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date > -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Dat > e])),[Date > ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS > MovingTotal, > DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 > Months Prior], > DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date > ])),[Date] > ) AS [Days Diff] > > FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] > > WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) > > ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; > > > > The results: > > > > PID Date vm_wtri > MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff > > 424150174300 9/1/2004 > 7/1/2004 62 > > 424150174300 10/1/2004 > 8/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 > 9/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 > 10/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 > 11/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 > 12/1/2004 62 > > 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 > 1/1/2005 59 > > 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 > 2/1/2005 59 > > 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 > 3/1/2005 61 > > 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 > 4/1/2005 61 > > 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 > 5/1/2005 61 > > 424150174300 8/1/2005 > 6/1/2005 61 > > > > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However > a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may > be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an > attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you > are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not > disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of > this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the > sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a > transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. > Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall > satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained > herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature > under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National > Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic > Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 8 14:30:37 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:30:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <21757728.1126196985145.JavaMail.root@sniper17> Message-ID: <000001c5b4ab$ca7d1710$0300a8c0@danwaters> I will agree to agree with Rueben! Each of the processes in my system uses the autonumber field to uniquely identify a particular record. Now everyone can refer to, "Corrective Action number 378" or something similar. The number is useful to people because it refers permanently refers to one and only one process record. Much like paper forms that were pre-serialized for uniqueness. Anything else I might do would be complex and add risk. Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, > period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you > have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After > all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. > I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently > have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several > local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into > a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. > We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find > a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 15:10:53 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:10:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A461BD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908201055.SSVX24572.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Except that the code you went to generate that unique number from the onset probably isn't gong to "adhere to the following rules..." anymore than an AutoNumber is. ;) Susan H. Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your 'just want a unique number', but come the day that "the management" (or "the new guy") steps in and says "it's essential that we have a consistent numbering scheme in all of our case records. It must adhere to the following rules...", then your use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea because you have *no control* over them. Then you will be forced into generating the 'numbers' in code, so you might as well do it from the beginning. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 15:11:09 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:11:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 15:13:33 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:13:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 15:41:33 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:41:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the row > does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in any > way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm not > opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed to is > trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. > It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering > without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the > Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique > numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > > software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.COM Thu Sep 8 15:48:26 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.COM (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:48:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46213@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Sorry. I can't agree with that. The whole *point* of creating the 'numbers' with code is you can control it, and you can revise it when things have to change. Say you start of with a simple sequential number (not autonumber), 1,2,3 etc. Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the number display. [I know which choice I would make :) ] Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an alpha prefix that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then run an update query to add the prefix to all the existing records. Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra information can be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary Key, that's handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are intact. Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Except that the code you went to generate that unique number from the onset probably isn't gong to "adhere to the following rules..." anymore than an AutoNumber is. ;) Susan H. Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your 'just want a unique number', but come the day that "the management" (or "the new guy") steps in and says "it's essential that we have a consistent numbering scheme in all of our case records. It must adhere to the following rules...", then your use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea because you have *no control* over them. Then you will be forced into generating the 'numbers' in code, so you might as well do it from the beginning. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 8 15:53:12 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:53:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 15:54:10 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46213@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908205410.92632.qmail@web80801.mail.yahoo.com> And as Lambert mentioned, you make the change to the "number" field, one place. thats it. No changes are needed on the other tables as they are not linked on the "visible number" but on the hidden PKID. --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > Sorry. I can't agree with that. The whole *point* of > creating the 'numbers' > with code is you can control it, and you can revise > it when things have to > change. > > Say you start of with a simple sequential number > (not autonumber), 1,2,3 > etc. > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > have to be padded to 6 > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > (if it wasn't such > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > and run an update query > on the existing records to include the padding, or > find all uses of the > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > the formatting of the > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > ] > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > include an alpha prefix > that shows which office created the record". Fine > (As long as you can > identify the office within the rest of the data). > You change the 'number' > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > records and then run an update > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > what extra information can > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > just a minor pain in the > butt because of course you are not using this field > as a Primary Key, that's > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > your relationships are > intact. > > Lambert :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:11 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > Except that the code you went to generate that > unique number from the onset > probably isn't gong to "adhere to the following > rules..." anymore than an > AutoNumber is. ;) > > Susan H. > > Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your > 'just want a unique > number', but come the day that "the management" (or > "the new guy") steps in > and says "it's essential that we have a consistent > numbering scheme in all > of our case records. It must adhere to the following > rules...", then your > use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea > because you have *no control* > over them. Then you will be forced into generating > the 'numbers' in code, so > you might as well do it from the beginning. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 15:58:04 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908205804.39634.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 8 16:01:09 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:01:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <29217409.1126210759826.JavaMail.root@sniper22> Message-ID: <000001c5b4b8$70583be0$0300a8c0@danwaters> Charlotte! The meaningful value to people is that they know where they are. And that's exactly what they need. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 16:13:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:13:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46213@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908211303.NFQH1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> My point would be -- if there are no rules, why bother until there are some? It might never happen. Susan H. Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the number display. [I know which choice I would make :) Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an alpha prefix that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then run an update query to add the prefix to all the existing records. Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra information can be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary Key, that's handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are intact. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 16:38:57 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:38:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Now, Susan, you've been around computers and users long enough to know that "it might never happen" is a joke! ;-> Whatever you DON'T plan for will ALWAYS happen, sooner or later! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately My point would be -- if there are no rules, why bother until there are some? It might never happen. Susan H. Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the number display. [I know which choice I would make :) Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an alpha prefix that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then run an update query to add the prefix to all the existing records. Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra information can be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary Key, that's handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are intact. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 16:38:58 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:38:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908211303.NFQH1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Exactly. Simplicity rules! Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why bother until > there are some? > It might never happen. > > Susan H. > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such > already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query > on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an > alpha prefix > that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can > identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' > generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then > run an update > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra > information can > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the > butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary > Key, that's > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are > intact. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 16:54:19 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:54:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050908215420.KPQE660.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Yeah, I know we say that... And I always warn readers to consider it... But the truth is -- I don't see any reason to re-invent the wheel until the one you have isn't big enough -- or small enough depending on how you view the discussion. :) I once had a guy refuse to update his assignment process. He had this convoluted reasoning behind the id values he assigned to each record. He created them by hand and entered them himself. They had no real connection to the data. They were just a series of expressions he'd combined. All his hard copies used these values and were filed by them (uggggg....). Instead of just updating the entire system, he insisted we keep the routine but it was a stupid hoop to continue jumping through. The only thing that "meaningful" value did was create job security for his file clerk. On the other hand -- once worked with a system that generated values that were ... truly keen. :) It was a steel warehouse and each "type" of steel had a unique code -- truly ingenious system. :) Each digit in the resulting value meant something and once you knew the code, you knew everything you needed to know for that one value. Truly cool. It was meaningful and valuable. Fortunately, if you knew the steel business, deciphering the code was no big deal. A stranger to the business would've gotten nothing out of it. But the truth is, if the user just needed a value to connect some dots between the record displayed in the form and some piece of paper, and they didn't care what it was -- I can't think of any reason not to use an AutoNumber. If you use code to generate the value, you still have to change the code if and when the rules change. I don't see the difference in workload to implement the change. However, if the change never comes, you have saved a tad of time -- not much -- less than it took to write this message in fact -- so I'm not sure it really matters either way. :) Susan H. Now, Susan, you've been around computers and users long enough to know that "it might never happen" is a joke! ;-> Whatever you DON'T plan for will ALWAYS happen, sooner or later! From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 16:56:32 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:56:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050908215636.KQFS660.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You've been in my refrigerator! ;) Susan H. Exactly. Simplicity rules! From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 17:18:26 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908211303.NFQH1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20050908221826.54933.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> So you don't have to go back there and fix things. It's called "building it right, the first time" :) --- Susan Harkins wrote: > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > bother until there are some? > It might never happen. > > Susan H. > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > have to be padded to 6 > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > (if it wasn't such > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > and run an update query > on the existing records to include the padding, or > find all uses of the > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > the formatting of the > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > include an alpha prefix > that shows which office created the record". Fine > (As long as you can > identify the office within the rest of the data). > You change the 'number' > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > records and then run an update > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > what extra information can > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > just a minor pain in the > butt because of course you are not using this field > as a Primary Key, that's > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > your relationships are > intact. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From KIsmert at texassystems.com Thu Sep 8 17:55:24 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:55:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: >> IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >> to create sequential numbering without >> writing a bunch code to do so. You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. -Ken From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 18:14:59 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:14:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >> IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >> to create sequential numbering without >> writing a bunch code to do so. You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 18:18:54 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:18:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908221826.54933.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050908231854.QHKV27902.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> So you don't have to go back there and fix things. =========fix what? If it's working and the rules change, you're not fixing anything, you're modifying it. It's called "building it right, the first time" :) =========well... That explains your hammer. ;) Susan H. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Sep 8 18:37:32 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:37:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BEE@main2.marlow.com> Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 8 18:57:07 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:57:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average References: <041001c5b3dc$2d1783e0$4b1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <4320CFD3.5020400@shaw.ca> If you want to do through vba code ACC2000: How to Compute Moving Averages in Visual Basic for Applications http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;210138 I would probably do this inside arrays for easier manipulation rather than SQL but then I am old Fortan guy. Just remember you can also do an exponential moving average, it puts more weight toward recent data and less weight toward past data than does the simple moving average method. This method is often called exponentially weighted. The major statistical methods with this are called Box-Jenkins. One of the better time series forecasting tools complete with vba callable api is AutoBox. But Oh my it is written in Fortran. It is around $400. http://www.autobox.com/autobox.htm A.D.Tejpal wrote: >Chester, > > Sample query given below, should get the moving average (for three months) of field named Qty in table T_MA. SMonth is number type field representing month. > > It is presumed that there are no holes in month values. Otherwise, you will have to get the running count of months in a preliminary query and use that as the source for final query. > >A.D.Tejpal >-------------- > >===================================== >SELECT T_MA.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_MA AS T1 Where T1.SMonth >= T_MA.SMonth - 2 And T1.SMonth <= T_MA.SMonth) AS MovingAvg >FROM T_MA >ORDER BY T_MA.SMonth; >===================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 23:37 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average > > > This works great for a running average but guess I did not make myself clear. What I need is a moving 3 month average. For example if I am on record 3 average records 1, 2 and 3. If I am on record 4 average records 2, 3 and 4 etc. Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average > > Chester, > > For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. > Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. > > Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > ================================= > SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < > T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS > RunningAvg > FROM T_Data > ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; > ================================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 > Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average > > I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks > > Chester Kaup > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 8 19:10:59 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:10:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: Message-ID: <4320D313.6090505@shaw.ca> Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >>>to create sequential numbering without >>>writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure >your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference >number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Thu Sep 8 19:16:02 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:16:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book should they find anything that is vaguely valuable in an information sense. I do not give permission for any reader of the book to use said information in a commercial product without express permission. bruce This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Thu Sep 8 19:24:27 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:24:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 19:44:04 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908221826.54933.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 19:44:04 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree they aren't necessarily sequential. They generally are and that's good enough for me in this argument. I agree if you HAVE to have sequential and/or consecutive numbers then you better control them manually. If not, feel free to use the autonumber for the record ID. Users LOVE it ;) Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > >> IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way > >> to create sequential numbering without > >> writing a bunch code to do so. > > You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new > values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will > change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > > So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > > If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure > your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference > number on a report using an Autonumber field. > > -Ken > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:45:46 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:45:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BEE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001c01c5b4e0$3c05e360$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL. yea, but I disagree with you first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:49:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908205804.39634.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c5b4e0$bfb65a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:53:51 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:53:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:56:59 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:56:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c5b4e1$c3d71060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> No Reuben, the autonumber identifies the RECORD, not the data in the record. That is the entire point of a valueless PK. Data be damned, my PK stays the same and I never have to touch it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 21:04:16 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:04:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B747349016DF77@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <002001c5b4e2$c892a730$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> OMG, I'm a gonna die. Nothing in that whole message to disagree with. I prefer to not use my autonumber as a "case number" etc. but I will in a pinch. If the "suit" comes along and demands a "system" then I bill them to replace the simple with the arcane. If all they want is a unique number to reference a piece of data with, well... I just happen to have an autonumber already here. I MIGHT be tempted to copy it out of the autonumber field into it's own "case number" field just so the day that the "suit" sticks his nose in I won't be modifying dozens of reports, queries and forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 21:20:35 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:20:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c5b4e5$0fd2c970$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> My reason for not doing that is quite simple as I explained in a previous email. An autonumber being the PK is the only PK that makes sense , but as soon as you place meaning on it, it will require changing. The problem becomes that you use the PK as an exposed number in 5 forms, 13 queries and 12 reports. Now the "suit" comes along and requires you change it to the letters in his daughter's name, scrambled, plus her birthday, minus his mother's maiden name. You now have to go add a field to hold this new construct, and then fix all those forms, reports and queries. Better, if you are going to expose the number, that you just add a field to the table right away, and then immediately (as each record / autonumber is created) copy the autonumber into this new field. Now if the "suit" makes this ridiculous order (and it WILL happen if you DON'T plan for it), you just alter the field data type, build the ridiculous order number generator and apply it to the already existing field. The field name remains the same, the queries, forms and reports continue to work. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > should not be treated as meaningful. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Thu Sep 8 21:30:25 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:30:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001d01c5b4e0$bfb65a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this discussion goes on...pretty cool... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 21:49:33 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:49:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <001d01c5b4e0$bfb65a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: On 08/09/05, Dian wrote: > Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this > discussion goes on. And on, and on, and on and on and on....... :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 21:49:57 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:49:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <002301c5b4e9$2eefe320$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> One time was a bad accident, correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dian Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this discussion goes on...pretty cool... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:13:01 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:13:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF0@main2.marlow.com> You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:15:06 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:15:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF1@main2.marlow.com> Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:16:21 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:16:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF2@main2.marlow.com> No you don't...oh wait, sorry, that was just simply normal 'programmed' responses to your posts! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately LOL. yea, but I disagree with you first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:26:15 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:26:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF3@main2.marlow.com> Okay, who are you, and what did you do with JC?!?!?!?!?! Kidnapping is a felony, but more importantly, so is computer fraud, so whoever you are, it's been fun, but JC NEVER agrees with me, so you can just quit the act now! ;) Just kidding JC. I have 2 systems in mind. One is our online shopping cart. Initially, the 'Invoice Number' was the CartID (AN), with a few zeros thrown in the front. Before the system went live, however, it was announced that the Invoice numbers had to be sequential for accounting reasons. Okay, no problem, I built the entire system with Classes, so it was a five minute fix to switch the entire system to use a new table with sequential Invoice Numbers. The second system, is the ISFE (our IS request tracking system). Just to have a 'ticket number', I give the user the autonumber. Quick easy, it's my system, so there are no rules, and honestly, if there are ever rules applied (for whatever asinine reason), I won't be there! Anyhow, in case 1, I used an AN with no rules. Rules we applied mid development. AN was dropped. Lesson learned, use classes, because it makes your life a LOT easier! ;) In case 2, the Autonumber works perfectly. Most of my other systems use AN's for keys, but I have a more 'meaningful' key for the user to see. Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately OMG, I'm a gonna die. Nothing in that whole message to disagree with. I prefer to not use my autonumber as a "case number" etc. but I will in a pinch. If the "suit" comes along and demands a "system" then I bill them to replace the simple with the arcane. If all they want is a unique number to reference a piece of data with, well... I just happen to have an autonumber already here. I MIGHT be tempted to copy it out of the autonumber field into it's own "case number" field just so the day that the "suit" sticks his nose in I won't be modifying dozens of reports, queries and forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:29:17 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:29:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF4@main2.marlow.com> It wouldn't keep going on if we could just agree on a method of identifying the posts and points. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 08/09/05, Dian wrote: > Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this > discussion goes on. And on, and on, and on and on and on....... :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 00:35:21 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:35:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <005901c5b500$4597c950$6401a8c0@laptop1> Is there really close to 100 messages in this thread or did the Earthlink server have another seizure? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM To: access at joe2.endjunk.com; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Fri Sep 9 00:45:59 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:45:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Do you mean the old "create a table with the new start number and append it" method or something else? bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:53:38 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:53:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BFB@main2.marlow.com> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a property within an ADO recordset, that if you remove all the records, you can 'reset' the Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, if I remember correctly....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Do you mean the old "create a table with the new start number and append it" method or something else? bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 01:24:17 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 23:24:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export Form / Save In shortcut box Message-ID: Whenever you export a form, or save a query etc, in Access 2000/2003 you get this getsaveas dialog box with some quick shortcuts to desktop/my documents etc. I'd like to add my personal "Build" shortcut to this... anyone know the correct keywords for google, I've been staying up late for the last couple of weeks and I'm just drained :(. can't seem to pick the right keywords for goole :) Thanks in advance... -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Fri Sep 9 01:27:08 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:27:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Drew, I'm not being clear. What I want/need is a restartable, subsettable and reusable numbered data item. IOW I can have lots and lots of the same numbered item in the table. The numbering is restarted from 1 at each test cycle. So test script "GA4578" may be executed as script number 321 in cycle 1, 712 in cycle 2, 14 in cycle 3 etc. Essentially its just a human usable "timestamp" of the order the test was executed in (i.e. that lines up with the test logs). Script GA4578 is a subsetted autonumber created during the test design phase - it is composite of usecase abbrev + subset number, i.e. this is script 4578 for "general accounts". There is also a TD4578 script and a FP4578 etc etc. In postgres, (which is where I have been for the last several years btw) you can set any number of sequence fields in a row and generate the above things quite easily using sequence "triggers" - once the initial set up has been done they all number automagically. Now that I have been forced back to an M$ environment I'm just having a grumble that autonumber just doesn't give me what I need. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a property within an ADO recordset, that if you remove all the records, you can 'reset' the Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, if I remember correctly....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Do you mean the old "create a table with the new start number and append it" method or something else? bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From pedro at plex.nl Fri Sep 9 09:47:04 2005 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:47:04 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] adding control number Message-ID: <200509090747.j897l486023690@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Gustav, i used the function below in a query, SELECT Right(ModulusAppend(PatientID,10),Len(PatientID)) AS Expr1 FROM tblPatientgegevens; but the result wasn't correct. In the list of about 3000 PatientID's i checked three ID's by hand, but the results didn't match with the results from the function. 00100499 (ID) 01004993 (function) 01004994 (check by hand) 00100905 (ID) 01009059 (function) 01009056 (check by hand) 00111843 (ID) 01118439 (function) 01118434 (check by hand) Is it possible for you to check the function? Thanks Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] adding control number > Hi Pedro > > Looks like a Modulus 10 check digit calculation. > Below is a function that will do this for you in a maintainable way. > > Use it like this: > > strChk = Right(ModulusAppend("00327833", 10), Len("00327833")) > > /gustav > > > > Function ModulusAppend( _ > ByVal strNumber As String, _ > ByVal intModulus As Integer) _ > As String > > ' Appends a Modulus 10 or 11 check digit to strNumber. > ' > ' 1999-10-08. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. > > Dim intC As Integer, intF As Integer, intN As Integer > Dim intL As Integer, intM As Integer, intT As Integer > Dim strNumCheck As String > Dim strNumChr As String > Dim strNumClean As String > > ' Max. length of number. > intM = 32 - 1 > > If intModulus = 10 Or intModulus = 11 Then > intL = Len(strNumber) > ' Remove non-digits. > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > strNumChr = Mid(strNumber, intN + 1, 1) > If (Asc(strNumChr) >= 48) And (Asc(strNumChr) <= 57) Then > strNumClean = strNumClean & strNumChr > End If > Next intN > strNumber = strNumClean > intL = Len(strNumber) > End If > > If intL > 0 And intL <= intM Then > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > intC = Val(Mid(strNumber, intL - intN, 1)) > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intF = (1 + ((intN + 1) Mod 2)) > intC = intF * intC > intC = Int(intC / 10) + (intC Mod 10) > Case Is = 11 > intF = 2 + (intN Mod 6) > intC = intF * intC > End Select > intT = intT + intC > Next > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intC = intT - (intT Mod intModulus) + intModulus > strNumCheck = Format((intC - intT) Mod intModulus, "@") > Case Is = 11 > intC = intModulus - (intT Mod intModulus) > Select Case intC > Case Is = 11 > ' A check digit for this number cannot be calculated! > strNumber = vbNullString > intC = 0 > Beep > Case Is = 10 > intC = 0 > End Select > strNumCheck = Format(intC, "@") > End Select > strNumber = strNumber & strNumCheck > Else > strNumber = "0" > End If > > ModulusAppend = strNumber > > End Function > > > > > >>> pedro at plex.nl 26-08-2005 11:11 >>> > Hello Group, > > I have an ID (text, because it begins with 00) that exist of 8 > numbers. > I need to change this ID by removing the first 0, and by adding a extra > control number. > This control number can be calculated from this ID. This can be done by > several query's. Is it possible to do in one query?? > > For example. > > I have ID: 00327833 > > Take the number of the odd positions: 0 3 7 3 > > Place these numbers behind each other to make one number: 0373 > > Multiply this number with 2: 0373 x 2 = 0746 > > Count up the separate numbers from this last multiplication: 0 + 7 + > 4 + 6 = 17 > > >From the original ID, take the even positions: 0 2 8 3 > > Count up the separate numbers from the even positions with the sum of > the last count up: 17 + 0 + 2 + 8 + 3 = 30 > > The last number of the previous sum is the extra control number: 0 > > >From the original ID, remove the first 0 and add the control number: > 03278330 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 06:32:59 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:32:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063127.028f18c8@pop3.highstream.net> Sorry bruce, but once it is published, you really do not have a say in the matter. And, since this is a public forum, you really do not have much of a say in how anything posted here, by you or anyone else is used. Welcome to the world of the Internet. Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:16:02 +1000 >From: "Bruen, Bruce" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the >AccessD list in a printed book should they find anything that is vaguely >valuable in an information sense. I do not give permission for any >reader of the book to use said information in a commercial product >without express permission. > >bruce From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 06:38:22 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:38:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063349.0292e850@pop3.highstream.net> Bruce, No, the real problem is the misuse of it. Autonumber is perfect for what it is designed for. It is the uses that people put to it, like the ones you listed that make it "suck." Stop trying to use it for things it was not designed to do. Oh, if you want more than one autonumber per table, try Oracle, you can do it with their "sequence" definitions. Though, it is really more like a trigger that numbers things than an autonumber. Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:24:27 +1000 >From: "Bruen, Bruce" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a >record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a >surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique >identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to >automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique >number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be >solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. >Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. > >bruce From nd500_lo at charter.net Fri Sep 9 06:48:07 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 04:48:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <002301c5b4e9$2eefe320$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <48vje6$1cq4aap@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Yes, it was. Good memory, John! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately One time was a bad accident, correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dian Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this discussion goes on...pretty cool... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 07:02:31 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:02:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063946.02977990@pop3.highstream.net> A lot of the referrals that I get are from people that used people that think they are Access programmers, but know nothing about database design and the applications they write require a complete rewrite to actually work. I have to go in and FIX the disaster that the client ended up with. When I worked at the Army proving grounds in Yuma, we had a saying. "It takes an engineer to tear something apart, but a good technician to put it back together again." A well thought out design is not over-building. But, it also will not have to have any major changes over the years because of the thought that went into it. Sounds like you thought it out if it has been running that long. :-) Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 >From: "Reuben Cummings" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >It can also be called over-building. > >I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it >with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor >bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it >right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to >completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in >October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing >back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - >they were overbuilding the project. > >The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works >perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since >2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and >therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work >records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. > >Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code >or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. > >I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never >had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up >in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are >happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. > >Reuben Cummings >GFC, LLC >812.523.1017 From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 07:11:36 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:11:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: Lambert, I can see the old OK debate coming back. Actually, you argued against yourself in your last post where you said someone might want to prefix an Alpha that represents a branch code; you've now crossed the line from meaningless to meaning full. You now have the branch code stored in two places (once in the key and once in the table), so it's possible to get a mis-match. You've also now forced the key to change if the branch code changes. If you say, "well I wouldn't put the branch code in the table a second time", then you've broken the first rule of normalization, which is that all values should be atomic. The key in this case is a composite value. Surrogate keys only exist and make sense because of real world limitations in current computer systems. But in terms of relational theory, their fallacy is that they do not have any meaning in relation to the data. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 07:21:55 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 07:23:38 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:23:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908205804.39634.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, <> But is that a fault of the design or the fault of the DBS/Computer system (I'm assuming your implying that performance was poor). Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 08:12:01 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:12:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909131200.XDOS25279.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC, I won't call them silly... That could get me hurt. Besides, it's kind of like religion -- can't trash people on their choice of pk God. :) But I agree on the rest. I've always used AutoNumbers. I've only written about using natural -- never experienced it myself -- kind of like camping. I know other people do it... Susan H. Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 08:17:25 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:17:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063946.02977990@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <002f01c5b540$d1f9f180$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I grew up in Yuma. Actually out in the Bard valley (over in California) about 12 miles from town. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately A lot of the referrals that I get are from people that used people that think they are Access programmers, but know nothing about database design and the applications they write require a complete rewrite to actually work. I have to go in and FIX the disaster that the client ended up with. When I worked at the Army proving grounds in Yuma, we had a saying. "It takes an engineer to tear something apart, but a good technician to put it back together again." A well thought out design is not over-building. But, it also will not have to have any major changes over the years because of the thought that went into it. Sounds like you thought it out if it has been running that long. :-) Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 >From: "Reuben Cummings" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >It can also be called over-building. > >I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote >it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with >very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought >"building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately >set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March >of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and >gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build >everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. > >The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that >works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good >money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but >never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the >details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in >programming time. > >Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" >code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for >them. > >I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have >never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been >caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my >clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is >just fine. > >Reuben Cummings >GFC, LLC >812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 08:20:26 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:20:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050909131200.XDOS25279.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <003001c5b541$3db63460$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >JC, I won't call them silly... Yea, but sometimes I just HAVE to stir the pot... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately JC, I won't call them silly... That could get me hurt. Besides, it's kind of like religion -- can't trash people on their choice of pk God. :) But I agree on the rest. I've always used AutoNumbers. I've only written about using natural -- never experienced it myself -- kind of like camping. I know other people do it... Susan H. Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Sep 9 08:28:17 2005 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:28:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318807226013@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Nyet to pot-stirring! Andy is away and I promised to make sure y'all behave yourselves. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 09 September 2005 14:20 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >JC, I won't call them silly... Yea, but sometimes I just HAVE to stir the pot... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately JC, I won't call them silly... That could get me hurt. Besides, it's kind of like religion -- can't trash people on their choice of pk God. :) But I agree on the rest. I've always used AutoNumbers. I've only written about using natural -- never experienced it myself -- kind of like camping. I know other people do it... Susan H. Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 08:27:06 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:27:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c5b542$34c371a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 9 08:46:35 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:46:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46335@xlivmbx21.aig.com> If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 08:46:10 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:46:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <003101c5b542$34c371a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 9 08:54:17 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:54:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] adding control number Message-ID: Hi Pedro Try counting from right to left as the number of leading zeroes has no influence on the check digit. In your original example, the check digit is zero for counting both from left and right: 00338723 00327833 but that's a special case. I was only assuming you were adding a standard Modulus 10 check digit which my function does. If you read it closer you'll see that my function does a little more than your calculation. Thus, of course, the results may be different. /gustav I think your specification is wrong: > Take the number of the odd positions: 0 3 7 3 > > Place these numbers behind each other to make one number: 0373 > > Multiply this number with 2: 0373 x 2 = 0746 Normally you would pick each digit and multiply by 2: 0 + 6 + 14 + 6 = 26 Add even positions' digits: 26 + 0 + 2 + 8 + 3 = 39 >>> pedro at plex.nl 09-09-2005 09:47:04 >>> Hello Gustav, i used the function below in a query, SELECT Right(ModulusAppend(PatientID,10),Len(PatientID)) AS Expr1 FROM tblPatientgegevens; but the result wasn't correct. In the list of about 3000 PatientID's i checked three ID's by hand, but the results didn't match with the results from the function. 00100499 (ID) 01004993 (function) 01004994 (check by hand) 00100905 (ID) 01009059 (function) 01009056 (check by hand) 00111843 (ID) 01118439 (function) 01118434 (check by hand) Is it possible for you to check the function? Thanks Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] adding control number > Hi Pedro > > Looks like a Modulus 10 check digit calculation. > Below is a function that will do this for you in a maintainable way. > > Use it like this: > > strChk = Right(ModulusAppend("00327833", 10), Len("00327833")) > > /gustav > > > > Function ModulusAppend( _ > ByVal strNumber As String, _ > ByVal intModulus As Integer) _ > As String > > ' Appends a Modulus 10 or 11 check digit to strNumber. > ' > ' 1999-10-08. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. > > Dim intC As Integer, intF As Integer, intN As Integer > Dim intL As Integer, intM As Integer, intT As Integer > Dim strNumCheck As String > Dim strNumChr As String > Dim strNumClean As String > > ' Max. length of number. > intM = 32 - 1 > > If intModulus = 10 Or intModulus = 11 Then > intL = Len(strNumber) > ' Remove non-digits. > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > strNumChr = Mid(strNumber, intN + 1, 1) > If (Asc(strNumChr) >= 48) And (Asc(strNumChr) <= 57) Then > strNumClean = strNumClean & strNumChr > End If > Next intN > strNumber = strNumClean > intL = Len(strNumber) > End If > > If intL > 0 And intL <= intM Then > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > intC = Val(Mid(strNumber, intL - intN, 1)) > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intF = (1 + ((intN + 1) Mod 2)) > intC = intF * intC > intC = Int(intC / 10) + (intC Mod 10) > Case Is = 11 > intF = 2 + (intN Mod 6) > intC = intF * intC > End Select > intT = intT + intC > Next > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intC = intT - (intT Mod intModulus) + intModulus > strNumCheck = Format((intC - intT) Mod intModulus, "@") > Case Is = 11 > intC = intModulus - (intT Mod intModulus) > Select Case intC > Case Is = 11 > ' A check digit for this number cannot be calculated! > strNumber = vbNullString > intC = 0 > Beep > Case Is = 10 > intC = 0 > End Select > strNumCheck = Format(intC, "@") > End Select > strNumber = strNumber & strNumCheck > Else > strNumber = "0" > End If > > ModulusAppend = strNumber > > End Function > > > > > >>> pedro at plex.nl 26-08-2005 11:11 >>> > Hello Group, > > I have an ID (text, because it begins with 00) that exist of 8 > numbers. > I need to change this ID by removing the first 0, and by adding a extra > control number. > This control number can be calculated from this ID. This can be done by > several query's. Is it possible to do in one query?? > > For example. > > I have ID: 00327833 > > Take the number of the odd positions: 0 3 7 3 > > Place these numbers behind each other to make one number: 0373 > > Multiply this number with 2: 0373 x 2 = 0746 > > Count up the separate numbers from this last multiplication: 0 + 7 + > 4 + 6 = 17 > > >From the original ID, take the even positions: 0 2 8 3 > > Count up the separate numbers from the even positions with the sum of > the last count up: 17 + 0 + 2 + 8 + 3 = 30 > > The last number of the previous sum is the extra control number: 0 > > >From the original ID, remove the first 0 and add the control number: > 03278330 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 09:00:57 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:00:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003e01c5b546$ebc6ce20$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I have been using Access for databases, and autonumbers for PKs since 1994 and have never lost data due to PK / FK issues. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys >get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 09:20:11 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:20:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46335@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <004001c5b549$9b87b750$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> PKs are nothing more than pointers to child records. If a table has no child objects, then it has no need for a PK. If you break out the multiple uses that developers have traditionally give the PK into its component pieces, you have the pointer function, and the unique index function. They are entirely different functions, with entire different requirements. One does not replace the other, the pointer function is not always required, the unique index is not always required. If you break the pieces apart and deal with them separately then you have the ability to deal with them as required by that piece. I ALWAYS add an autonumber PK ID to every table, just as a matter of course. Understand that the PK is nothing more than a pointer to child records in related tables. I don't always need one, but I just put it there. This is a long int, automatically handled by the database engine and has little (almost no) overhead, so I "just do it". I ALWAYS analyze whether I need a unique index on a table. When I need to prevent adding duplicate data, I add a unique index. MOST of my tables have a unique index, but not every single one. The fact that I use an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve me of the responsibility of analyzing whether I need a unique index, and if so which field or fields will make up the unique index. PKs and unique indexes are different constructs and serve different purposes. Neither of them are always required. If you break these two things apart and treat them as the separate entities that they truly are, then it becomes possible to use each for the exact purpose that they exist, and makes it almost trivial to determine when and where each is needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 9 09:21:54 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:21:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46361@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Ditto, with Access 1.0 and up. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have been using Access for databases, and autonumbers for PKs since 1994 and have never lost data due to PK / FK issues. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 09:42:53 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:42:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004001c5b549$9b87b750$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909144253.WAZU27902.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC -- you made this point once before and I thought it was so timely discussion then -- as so now. Martin and I actually collaborated on an article on pk's -- got a lot of interesting feedback on that one. ;) Some of the feedbacks useless, some of it's pretty good. As in any discussion, you always have a few that just want to sound flashy, but really add nothing of substance. http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11-1045050.html?tag=search I don't like the way the edited it though -- I guarantee you that neither Martin or I said social security numbers were a good key candidate. Editors aren't always the best technical minds and some publishers never ask -- they just edit and publish. I'm not necessarily the best technical mind either for that matter -- but I know where to find them and always ask lots of questions. :) FWIW, I have no real opinion on the subject -- it's a personal thing -- use the keys you like and that work for you and respect my choice as well. ;) Now here's a really controversial one: http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11-1050688.html?tag=sc Martin fueled that one, so don't blame me -- I just wrote it up. ;) I got a few ugly emails on this one -- some people chose to misunderstand the article's real purpose. Again, I think we have been badly edited in a few spots... Susan H. The fact that I use an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve me of the responsibility of analyzing whether I need a unique index, and if so which field or fields will make up the unique index. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 09:50:35 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:50:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909090341.02907bc0@pop3.highstream.net> It is a natural consequence of life. There are always going to be natural or business keys that are composites. For example, your full name is not unique. But combine the first, last, and middle name with your SSN and the odds are very good that the combination would be a unique natural/business key. But, I would never be stupid enough to use that combination as a primary key for any reason. Surrogate keys, autonumber or Base36, are quite adequate for me. Base36 is really cool if you want to drive the autonumber, everything has to be sequential, Nazi's crazy. The same ID never occurs in the entire database twice. Characters in PK Possible unique records 6 2,176,782,336 7 78,364,164,096 8 2,821,109,907,456 9 101,559,956,668,400 10 3,656,158,440,062,000 Hands down, surrogate keys are the best design technique. Then enforcing natural keys, candidate keys, and business keys through indexing or constraints to keep your data clean. Performance is always going to be poor when you have to join with multiple columns across tables. It does not matter what DB you use. Robert At 08:27 AM 9/9/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:23:38 -0400 >From: "Jim Dettman" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >David, > ><require three to five joins. THis would have been >simplified with one autonumber PK.>> > > But is that a fault of the design or the fault of the DBS/Computer system >(I'm assuming your implying that performance was poor). > >Jim. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 10:20:05 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46335@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: Lambert, <> The bug was in the generation of the key value, not messing up the field itself. My point was, since it's the DBS system that controls the field, it would be possible for a software bug to scramble an autonumber field and leave everything else untouched. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:21:29 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:21:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: True! Working with GUIDs is a total PITA, and you can't even type them in. LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >>>to create sequential numbering without >>>writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:24:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:24:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:27:37 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:27:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Yeah, and expect it to keep happening, too! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 10:27:26 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:27:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004201c5b552$fb95ee60$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Lambert, <> The bug was in the generation of the key value, not messing up the field itself. My point was, since it's the DBS system that controls the field, it would be possible for a software bug to scramble an autonumber field and leave everything else untouched. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 10:31:38 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:31:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004201c5b552$fb95ee60$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909153138.DDZM12830.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Either way -- sounds like reasons for routine backups and not a reason to not use a feature. OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Susan H. Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 10:34:16 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:34:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004301c5b553$f0186210$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Whooooosh... ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri Sep 9 10:37:01 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:37:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:35:33 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:35:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: You've got that one right, and it was a real headache. But it is not germane to the issues under discussion because it didn't foul up *existing* keys. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys >get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:37:41 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:37:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Me too, but since 92 and Access 1.0 initial release. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ditto, with Access 1.0 and up. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have been using Access for databases, and autonumbers for PKs since 1994 and have never lost data due to PK / FK issues. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From zora_db at yahoo.com Fri Sep 9 10:38:14 2005 From: zora_db at yahoo.com (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:38:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004301c5b553$f0186210$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909153815.78429.qmail@web50113.mail.yahoo.com> That's *enough* JC. Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for everyone). --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > Whooooosh... > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY > SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and > have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to > my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say > that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 9 10:40:18 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:40:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] adding control number Message-ID: Hi Pedro Here's a typical explanation in human language on how to do this: HP RPG/XL Utilities-Part 3 SIGEDITOR Modulus 10 Self-Check Digit To calculate the Modulus 10 self-check digit, follow these steps: 1. Multiply the rightmost position and every other position, moving to the left, of the number by 2. Example: If your number is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, multiply the digits 7, 5, 3, and 1 by 2 to get the numbers 14, 10, 6, and 2. 2. Add the digits of the products obtained from step 1 above to the digits that were not multiplied. Example: The products obtained from step 1 above are 14, 10, 6, and 2; the digits that were not multiplied are 2, 4, and 6. Add all these digits: 1 + 4 + 1 + 0 + 6 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 6 = 26. 3. Subtract the value obtained in step 2 from the next higher multiple of 10; the result is the self-check digit. Example: The next higher multiple of 10 from the result 26 obtained in step 2 above is 30. Subtracting 26 from 30 gives the result of 4, which is the self-check digit. 4. The check digit is then appended to the right end of the number to create the final result. /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:41:54 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:41:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: >>OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Arrrrggghhhh! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Either way -- sounds like reasons for routine backups and not a reason to not use a feature. OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Susan H. Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 10:47:53 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050909153815.78429.qmail@web50113.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c5b555$da2829c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Don't make me slap your legs. Promises promises. On a serious note though, these debates are old hat to those of us who have been around, but new members deserve the right to be smacked around a bit. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately That's *enough* JC. Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for everyone). --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > Whooooosh... > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ From bheygood at abestsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:51:56 2005 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:51:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5EAB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: check out "Nuts and Volts" mag for lots of info on pics and other electronics. bob heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers John if I understand well, we gonna see you in a couple of years with your son on TV in Robot Wars? The show runs on BBC television and I believe in the states to. Where a team, useualy father and son(s) build a robot (about 1 meter in size) with weapons on it to fight with other teams robots. Looks like a lot of fun building itn and see your robot, during the clash, falling in to the pit of fire getting fried by a flam trower... You would need some good electronics, mechanical and pneumatical skills :-( And probably some military tactics to.. Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John W. Colby Verzonden: woensdag 7 september 2005 19:42 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From zora_db at yahoo.com Fri Sep 9 11:01:39 2005 From: zora_db at yahoo.com (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:01:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004401c5b555$da2829c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909160140.81159.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com> It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > >Don't make me slap your legs. > > Promises promises. > > > > On a serious note though, these debates are old hat to those of us who have > been around, but new members deserve the right to be smacked around a bit. > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That's *enough* JC. > > Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is > getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for > everyone). > > > --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > > > Whooooosh... > > > > ;-) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 11:19:21 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:19:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063127.028f18c8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <004901c5b55a$4179e9c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> If I weren't the author seeking permission (and since no one else is saying it) I would say... The whole point of this list is real developers building real systems, asking for help solving real problems, where the answers are immediately going to be taken and used in real (commercial) products. So by answering a question on this list you are giving implied consent to use the answer in commercial systems. Hmmm.... I guess I just said it. Martin and I are asking permission simply to avoid having the book tied up in useless copyright infringement lawsuits, and we really will only publish material where the "creator" gives us permission to do so. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:33 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Sorry bruce, but once it is published, you really do not have a say in the matter. And, since this is a public forum, you really do not have much of a say in how anything posted here, by you or anyone else is used. Welcome to the world of the Internet. Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:16:02 +1000 >From: "Bruen, Bruce" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the >AccessD list in a printed book should they find anything that is >vaguely valuable in an information sense. I do not give permission for >any reader of the book to use said information in a commercial product >without express permission. > >bruce -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 11:22:07 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:22:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Message-ID: <004a01c5b55a$a7f591e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 11:53:20 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:53:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Message-ID: Um, John? In bound forms, moving from the parent form to the subform saves the parent record. If there's no parent ID, it sounds like you have a bigger problem. I generally disable the child subform until the parent form is complete. Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. I know you know about all that, so are you doing something exotic that you didn't explain? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 11:53:34 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:53:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export Form / Save In shortcut box References: Message-ID: <4321BE0E.40409@shaw.ca> You can do something with windows scripting shortcuts like this Dim WshShell as object Set WshShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell") Dim objShortcutLnk as object Set objShortcutLnk = WshShell.CreateShortcut(newfol?derpath & "\target.lnk") objShortcutLnk.TargetPath = folderTargetpath objShortcutLnk.IconLocation = folderTargeticon objShortcutLnk.Save Francisco Tapia wrote: >Whenever you export a form, or save a query etc, in Access 2000/2003 you get >this getsaveas dialog box with some quick shortcuts to desktop/my documents >etc. I'd like to add my personal "Build" shortcut to this... anyone know the >correct keywords for google, I've been staying up late for the last couple >of weeks and I'm just drained :(. can't seem to pick the right keywords for >goole :) > >Thanks in advance... > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 9 11:56:20 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:56:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ISBN, ISBN-13, calculation of check digits Message-ID: Hi all If you deal with books and ISBN numbers and the upcoming ISBN-13 (from year 2007), this page may be of interest: http://www.bisg.org/isbn-13/publishers.faq.html and the link to Conversions and Calculations: http://www.bisg.org/isbn-13/conversions.html Note the move from Modulus 11 to Modulus 10 check digit calculation as in EAN-13. Also note the use of X in the old ISBN numbers to represent check digit 10. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:02:03 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:02:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004b01c5b560$3c3066a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL. let's just wait for other responses eh? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Um, John? In bound forms, moving from the parent form to the subform saves the parent record. If there's no parent ID, it sounds like you have a bigger problem. I generally disable the child subform until the parent form is complete. Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. I know you know about all that, so are you doing something exotic that you didn't explain? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:16:43 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:16:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C03@main2.marlow.com> Well, until you change your ways, it WILL keep happening! Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Yeah, and expect it to keep happening, too! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:24:00 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:24:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004c01c5b563$49349620$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. And of course all this does is piss off the user. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Um, John? In bound forms, moving from the parent form to the subform saves the parent record. If there's no parent ID, it sounds like you have a bigger problem. I generally disable the child subform until the parent form is complete. Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. I know you know about all that, so are you doing something exotic that you didn't explain? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:18:52 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:18:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C04@main2.marlow.com> Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:19:51 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:19:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C05@main2.marlow.com> Sorry Roz, but JC wouldn't stand a chance on OT.... ;) Maybe we'll need an OT-lite list! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately That's *enough* JC. Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for everyone). --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > Whooooosh... > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY > SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and > have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to > my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say > that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:20:42 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:20:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C06@main2.marlow.com> Yes, we can't change the debate without changing the subject line....Susan, you should know better! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >>OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Arrrrggghhhh! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Either way -- sounds like reasons for routine backups and not a reason to not use a feature. OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Susan H. Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:21:31 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:21:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C07@main2.marlow.com> Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the night' feeling? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > >Don't make me slap your legs. > > Promises promises. > > > > On a serious note though, these debates are old hat to those of us who have > been around, but new members deserve the right to be smacked around a bit. > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That's *enough* JC. > > Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is > getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for > everyone). > > > --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > > > Whooooosh... > > > > ;-) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:33:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:33:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C04@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <004d01c5b564$a287c110$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 12:35:41 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:35:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Message-ID: Hah! Not as much as orphan records that they can enter but can never see again! ;-> Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent >Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. And of course all this does is piss off the user. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ - From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 12:37:36 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:37:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Oy! Why does it make my head ache just to consider that statement, Drew? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the night' feeling? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz From KIsmert at texassystems.com Fri Sep 9 12:39:25 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:39:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Message-ID: I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. -Ken >> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a >> property within an ADO recordset, that if you >> remove all the records, you can 'reset' the >> Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, >>> if I remember correctly....) >> Drew From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 12:52:27 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:52:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C07@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C07@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the > night' feeling? ;) I sure hope not. I'm still around and I can mess with your subscriptions :) Play nice boys and girls. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:55:59 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:55:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004f01c5b567$c0d4fd10$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Ken, Does this method work for tables with data already in them, or only empty tables? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. -Ken >> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a >> property within an ADO recordset, that if you >> remove all the records, you can 'reset' the >> Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, >>> if I remember correctly....) >> Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:23:28 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:23:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:23:55 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:23:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediat ely) Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0A@main2.marlow.com> That's it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. -Ken >> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a >> property within an ADO recordset, that if you >> remove all the records, you can 'reset' the >> Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, >>> if I remember correctly....) >> Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:24:32 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:24:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0B@main2.marlow.com> Not sure....lie down on the couch over there, and tell me how you feel about it. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Oy! Why does it make my head ache just to consider that statement, Drew? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the night' feeling? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:25:11 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:25:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0C@main2.marlow.com> LOL! I think you have too much time on your hands Bryan! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the > night' feeling? ;) I sure hope not. I'm still around and I can mess with your subscriptions :) Play nice boys and girls. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 13:32:39 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:32:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) > > What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? By The Computer would be my guess. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 13:33:18 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:33:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0C@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > LOL! I think you have too much time on your hands Bryan! ;) These days, yea a spare 20 hours or so a week :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Sep 9 13:33:15 2005 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:33:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] #Name? Message-ID: <4321D56B.9020707@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Can someone explain to me what causes in a textbox on a report "Total - " & format(me![SumBal],"#,##0.0") On some machines (all running the same mde program) to display Total - 123.1 and others #Name? I have checked the regional settings and they all the same. I think this has been asked before but I could not find anything in the archives. Thanks From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 13:39:46 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:39:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005201c5b56d$e2c80830$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Rule #1 is just a natural result of rule #3 being true and your misguided belief in rule #2. Biting the carpet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 13:49:42 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:49:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediat ely) In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20050909184955.UXER11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You can do a quite a bit using ADOX too -- but can't get into ElementK's site to get a link to the article. :( ADOX lets you do a few things programmatically that you can't do manually. Susan H. That's it! I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 14:08:22 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:08:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expected format" Message-ID: <7bb91085a7f54e7d9bf3ef526f318610@christopherhawkins.com> All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 14:15:43 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:15:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C13@main2.marlow.com> Aha, Bryan was wrong about 'by the computer' then! I now must refer you to rule number 5! Because when any of the three of us post, 2 of the rules are wrong, such as right now, #3 is dead wrong! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Rule #1 is just a natural result of rule #3 being true and your misguided belief in rule #2. Biting the carpet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 14:20:42 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:20:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" In-Reply-To: <7bb91085a7f54e7d9bf3ef526f318610@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <005301c5b573$9253a930$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 14:31:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:31:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005401c5b575$2224b800$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 14:36:38 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:36:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C13@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C13@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Aha, Bryan was wrong about 'by the computer' then! I'm wrong? When is the listmaster EVER wrong? Just remeber what I said before. I can mess with your subscriptions if YOU answer wrong closely followed by Bryan -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From KIsmert at texassystems.com Fri Sep 9 14:36:54 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:36:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Message-ID: John, Yes, it works for tables with data. The only requirement is that the starting value must be 1 higher than the highest autonumber value already in the table, to aviod duplicate values. Also, if your autonumber field is set to random values, you are pretty much stuck with that. I wouldn't reset the autonumber value in that circumstance. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Ken, Does this method work for tables with data already in them, or only empty tables? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 14:36:18 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:36:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Message-ID: <758dfa54a90d463f995c65b1aca3a20f@christopherhawkins.com> It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of anything, really. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 14:34:08 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:34:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> As the list master, did you see the hidden rule #6? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Aha, Bryan was wrong about 'by the computer' then! I'm wrong? When is the listmaster EVER wrong? Just remeber what I said before. I can mess with your subscriptions if YOU answer wrong closely followed by Bryan -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 14:46:57 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:46:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > As the list master, did you see the hidden rule #6? ;) I don't DO rules. I just enforce 'em :) Questions? Comments? Concerns? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 14:51:44 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:51:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" In-Reply-To: <758dfa54a90d463f995c65b1aca3a20f@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <005501c5b577$f02a5910$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just calls its data files dbfs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of anything, really. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 14:47:13 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:47:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C20@main2.marlow.com> Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative branch. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > As the list master, did you see the hidden rule #6? ;) I don't DO rules. I just enforce 'em :) Questions? Comments? Concerns? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Sep 9 14:56:33 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:56:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C20@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 15:03:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:03:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005601c5b579$92bac0b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Well I just tried it and get an error "Cannot change field YYY, it is part of one or more relationships." John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) John, Yes, it works for tables with data. The only requirement is that the starting value must be 1 higher than the highest autonumber value already in the table, to aviod duplicate values. Also, if your autonumber field is set to random values, you are pretty much stuck with that. I wouldn't reset the autonumber value in that circumstance. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Ken, Does this method work for tables with data already in them, or only empty tables? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 15:00:02 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:00:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C22@main2.marlow.com> The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, Congress is the Legislative branch. Got that President Carbonell? Congressman Drew ;) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 15:20:29 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:20:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just calls its data files dbfs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of anything, really. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 15:24:01 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:24:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C22@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, Congress is the Legislative branch. Got that President Carbonell? Congressman Drew ;) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 15:39:54 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:39:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" References: <005501c5b577$f02a5910$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4321F31A.5090809@shaw.ca> There were all sorts of problems with dbf files with Jet below SP7 Visual Fox Pro also uses dbf files You might need the BDE engine to read DBASE 7 and 8 file types You might need an ODBC driver from Merant. Some of the ODBC drivers require old DOS 8.3 filenames You might get away with oConn.Open "Driver={Microsoft dBASE Driver (*.dbf)};" & _ "DriverID=277;" & _ "Dbq=c:\somepath" Then specify the filename in the SQL statement: oRs.Open "Select * From user.dbf", oConn, , ,adCmdText http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=90#ODBCDriverForDBASE http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;238431 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;230125 John W. Colby wrote: >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 15:51:31 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:51:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] #Name? References: <4321D56B.9020707@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4321F5D3.8030701@shaw.ca> It could be a bad reference or an non initialized variable. More likely references with an mde. Solving Problems with Library References (Allen Browne) http://allenbrowne.com/ser-38.html and Access Reference Problems (Doug Steele) http://members.rogers.com/douglas.j.steele/AccessReferenceErrors.html Tony Septav wrote: >Hey All >Can someone explain to me what causes in a textbox on a report >"Total - " & format(me![SumBal],"#,##0.0") >On some machines (all running the same mde program) to display >Total - 123.1 > and others >#Name? > >I have checked the regional settings and they all the same. > >I think this has been asked before but I could not find anything in the >archives. > >Thanks > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 15:57:27 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:57:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4321F737.5090507@shaw.ca> I may have to invoke Godwin's Law. John W. Colby wrote: >Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war >with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:00 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > >The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, >Congress is the Legislative branch. > >Got that President Carbonell? > >Congressman Drew > >;) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > >On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > > > >>Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative >>branch. ;) >> >> > >What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga >bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 16:05:09 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:05:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: <11a78e6f5fd1410eb597835ea7af369b@christopherhawkins.com> Specifying the dBASE driver and putting the filename in the connect string yields the same error. For a variety of reasons, installing additional drivers is not a possibility, nor is using a DSN. The version of Jet on this machine is above Service Pack 8. This is so peculiar. I just don't know what to think. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" There were all sorts of problems with dbf files with Jet below SP7 Visual Fox Pro also uses dbf files You might need the BDE engine to read DBASE 7 and 8 file types You might need an ODBC driver from Merant. Some of the ODBC drivers require old DOS 8.3 filenames You might get away with oConn.Open "Driver={Microsoft dBASE Driver (*.dbf)};" & _ "DriverID=277;" & _ "Dbq=c:\somepath" Then specify the filename in the SQL statement: oRs.Open "Select * From user.dbf", oConn, , ,adCmdText http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=90#ODBCDriverForDBASE http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;238431 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;230125 John W. Colby wrote: >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 16:15:17 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:15:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" References: Message-ID: <4321FB65.3080304@shaw.ca> Wild guess. Maybe have a quick gander at the dbf files in a hex editor for clues. Could it contain a pointer to a memo field, Excel might ignore it Each of these has a different format of memo/index files. Driver - Database, Index(s), Memo file Dbase III+ - .DBF, .NDX, .DBT Dbase IV - .DBF, .MDX, .DBT Clipper - .DBF, .NTX, .DBT Foxpro - .DBF, .IDX/.CDX, .FPT A memo file is not literally attached to a dbf file, but the dbf file contains offsets to the associated data in the memo file. Memo files are made up of blocks, each record in the database can point to 1 block. If the data is more than a block long, the end of memo marker simply appears in the next block, and the data is read starting at the first block of the memo until the end of memo is hit. The field that is type memo in the .dbf is a numeric pointer to the block in the memo file. Christopher Hawkins wrote: >Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. > >UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. > >I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- >From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Fri Sep 9 16:21:09 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:21:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 16:29:04 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:29:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: AHA! I see an .fpt counterpart to the .dbf file I'm trying to open. So we must be dealing with a FoxPro file then. But swapping out the dBASE driver for a FoxPro driver doesn't seem to do anything. Hmmm... -C- ---------------------------------------- From: MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Wild guess. Maybe have a quick gander at the dbf files in a hex editor for clues. Could it contain a pointer to a memo field, Excel might ignore it Each of these has a different format of memo/index files. Driver - Database, Index(s), Memo file Dbase III+ - .DBF, .NDX, .DBT Dbase IV - .DBF, .MDX, .DBT Clipper - .DBF, .NTX, .DBT Foxpro - .DBF, .IDX/.CDX, .FPT A memo file is not literally attached to a dbf file, but the dbf file contains offsets to the associated data in the memo file. Memo files are made up of blocks, each record in the database can point to 1 block. If the data is more than a block long, the end of memo marker simply appears in the next block, and the data is read starting at the first block of the memo until the end of memo is hit. The field that is type memo in the .dbf is a numeric pointer to the block in the memo file. Christopher Hawkins wrote: >Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. > >UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. > >I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- >From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Sep 9 16:38:23 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:38:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337805@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Well the Mexican army has already sent a large convoy to San Antonio. (true story - it is for the evacuees) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, Congress is the Legislative branch. Got that President Carbonell? Congressman Drew ;) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 16:50:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:50:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005b01c5b588$8d4d24b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >..not one mind changed ...again :( Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Fri Sep 9 16:58:21 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:58:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CD67@natexch.jenkens.com> I have noticed most people tend to stick with what they always do unless traumatized by a bad design. I used a little of both early in my programming days, though mostly artificial keys since they were easier. Fortunately or unfortunately, fairly early on, I inherited a database with natural keys. The trauma the natural keys put me through with that &^%@# put me off the idea of natural keys forever. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >..not one mind changed ...again :( Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From KIsmert at texassystems.com Fri Sep 9 17:04:02 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:04:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) Message-ID: Drop your relationships involving the field, reset the autonumber, then re-apply relationships. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) Well I just tried it and get an error "Cannot change field YYY, it is part of one or more relationships." John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) John, Yes, it works for tables with data. The only requirement is that the starting value must be 1 higher than the highest autonumber value already in the table, to aviod duplicate values. Also, if your autonumber field is set to random values, you are pretty much stuck with that. I wouldn't reset the autonumber value in that circumstance. -Ken From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 9 17:23:10 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:23:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform In-Reply-To: <004a01c5b55a$a7f591e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509092223.j89MNCT12498@databaseadvisors.com> Shamil recently assisted me with the syntax to refer to a control on a subform, and now I need to do the opposite from within a "With Me" block. I tried "Parent" as in the following sample line, with a couple of variations, but I got it wrong. With Me .Parent.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl.Value = 12345 End With And another thing about these "With Me" blocks. It appears from my experiments that you cannot nest them. I.e. With Me .control1 = 124 .control2 = "This is some text" With .mySubForm .control1 = True .control2 = "This is some more text" End With End With Whereas one can next Case blocks, While loops, If blocks, etc. Can anyone think of a logical reason why With blocks do not conform to the general rule? TIA, Arthur From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 17:27:51 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:27:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" References: Message-ID: <43220C67.8090003@shaw.ca> Then you probably have memo fields Have a look for .dbc files these are a collection, sort of storage of all the data and index files needed for a specific vfp database. You can open this in notepad. You might want to try the OLEDB Provider for VFP for either version 8 or 9. http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=87#OLEDBProviderForVisualFoxPro Christopher Hawkins wrote: >AHA! > >I see an .fpt counterpart to the .dbf file I'm trying to open. So we must be dealing with a FoxPro file then. > >But swapping out the dBASE driver for a FoxPro driver doesn't seem to do anything. Hmmm... > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >Wild guess. >Maybe have a quick gander at the dbf files in a hex editor for clues. > >Could it contain a pointer to a memo field, Excel might ignore it > >Each of these has a different format of memo/index >files. > >Driver - Database, Index(s), Memo file >Dbase III+ - .DBF, .NDX, .DBT >Dbase IV - .DBF, .MDX, .DBT >Clipper - .DBF, .NTX, .DBT >Foxpro - .DBF, .IDX/.CDX, .FPT > >A memo file is not literally attached to a dbf file, but the dbf file >contains >offsets to the associated data in the memo file. Memo files are made up of >blocks, each record in the database can point to 1 block. If the data is >more >than a block long, the end of memo marker simply appears in the next block, >and the data is read starting at the first block of the memo until the >end of memo >is hit. The field that is type memo in the .dbf is a numeric pointer to >the block in >the memo file. > >Christopher Hawkins wrote: > > > >>Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. >> >>UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. >> >>I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. >> >>-C- >> >>---------------------------------------- >>From: "John W. Colby" >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" >> >>In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >>anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >>calls its data files dbfs. >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >>Hawkins >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >>inthe expectedformat" >> >>It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >>know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >>anything, really. >> >>-C- >> >>---------------------------------------- >>From: "John W. Colby" >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >>expectedformat" >> >>Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >>Hawkins >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >>expectedformat" >> >>All, >> >>This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >>data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >>message: >> >>"external table is not in the expected format" >> >>I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >>I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >>else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? >> >>-C- >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 17:30:52 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:30:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CD67@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <005c01c5b58e$22e19600$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Of course you are right. The thing is it is sooooo easy to switch to surrogate keys, and the advantages are so clear that it amazes me when people cling to the old way. I know how to use natural keys, I could do so quite easily (the using of them, not the maintenance of them), but why in the world would I? Switching to surrogate keys OTOH is equally easy (on new designs) and why not? I admit that I would not dream of trying to convert an existing design using natural keys to a surrogate key design, but even in that case I would switch to surrogate keys for all new additions to the database. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have noticed most people tend to stick with what they always do unless traumatized by a bad design. I used a little of both early in my programming days, though mostly artificial keys since they were easier. Fortunately or unfortunately, fairly early on, I inherited a database with natural keys. The trauma the natural keys put me through with that &^%@# put me off the idea of natural keys forever. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >..not one mind changed ...again :( Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Fri Sep 9 17:52:05 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:52:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: <005b01c5b588$8d4d24b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: ..ok, but he's Belfast Irish ...according to him he was on his way home from an evenin' of brews and found himself wandering down a Unionist street all alone and in no condition to argue with any coherent individual, let alone you ...when, lo ...you popped up in an orange caped jumpsuit and offered not to colbyize him if only he would leave the dark side ...that's his story and I'm stickin' to it :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > >..not one mind changed ...again :( > > Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, > based almost entirely on one of these debates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on > Autonumber > ..not one mind changed ...again :( > > ..TGIF :) > > William > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 9 18:09:11 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:09:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <4321F737.5090507@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4322A2B7.28492.8E5AE3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Sep 2005 at 13:57, MartyConnelly wrote: > I may have to invoke Godwin's Law. > That's typical of you Surrogate key nazis! -- Stuart From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 19:45:19 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:45:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C22@main2.marlow.com> <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, John W. Colby wrote: > Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war > with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. No worries. I don't want to be president. Your Eminence will do :-)) Thankfully Friday is almost over :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 20:27:06 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:27:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337805@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <005f01c5b5a6$c60c9880$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Well the Mexican army has already sent a large convoy to San Antonio. (true story - it is for the evacuees) Jim Hale When I lived in Puebla Mexico, the standing joke among my Mexican friends was that Mexicans were recovering their land (the southwest US) one immigrant at a time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Well the Mexican army has already sent a large convoy to San Antonio. (true story - it is for the evacuees) Jim Hale From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 20:27:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:27:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform In-Reply-To: <200509092223.j89MNCT12498@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006001c5b5a6$d6116530$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Controls are preceded by !, properties by . Me.Parent - parent is a property pointing to my parent Me.Parent!SomeControl John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform Shamil recently assisted me with the syntax to refer to a control on a subform, and now I need to do the opposite from within a "With Me" block. I tried "Parent" as in the following sample line, with a couple of variations, but I got it wrong. With Me .Parent.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl.Value = 12345 End With And another thing about these "With Me" blocks. It appears from my experiments that you cannot nest them. I.e. With Me .control1 = 124 .control2 = "This is some text" With .mySubForm .control1 = True .control2 = "This is some more text" End With End With Whereas one can next Case blocks, While loops, If blocks, etc. Can anyone think of a logical reason why With blocks do not conform to the general rule? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 20:44:43 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:44:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c5b5a9$3c35dab0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Reeeeaaaaly? One of the conditions of my not Colbyizing him is that he stay quiet about the orange caped jumpsuit... Martin? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ok, but he's Belfast Irish ...according to him he was on his way home from an evenin' of brews and found himself wandering down a Unionist street all alone and in no condition to argue with any coherent individual, let alone you ...when, lo ...you popped up in an orange caped jumpsuit and offered not to colbyize him if only he would leave the dark side ...that's his story and I'm stickin' to it :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > >..not one mind changed ...again :( > > Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long > ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on > Autonumber > ..not one mind changed ...again :( > > ..TGIF :) > > William > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri Sep 9 21:56:21 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:56:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C04@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I was always under the impression that Rule #1 read: "My wife is always right" Rule #5 is then still correct. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 00:50:32 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:20:32 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query References: Message-ID: <011201c5b5cb$a76accb0$371865cb@winxp> Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup From ralphb at cwgsy.net Sat Sep 10 02:05:54 2005 From: ralphb at cwgsy.net (Ralph Bryce) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:05:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expected format" In-Reply-To: <7bb91085a7f54e7d9bf3ef526f318610@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20050910073653.014fe250@mail.cwgsy.net> Christopher At 13:08 09/09/2005 -0600, you wrote: >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their >.dbf data file from Access. >Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so >far. I'vetried linking and connecting > with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone > else seen this problem before? Yes; it sounds as if you are trying to import FoxPro 2.6 tables with linked memo files IIRC it used to work in Access 97, but the drivers got dropped in Access 2000. Here are some links: http://www.experts-exchange.com/Databases/FoxPro/Q_21069380.html http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=733373 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;824264 http://www.kbalertz.com/kb_Q235357.aspx It's definitely possible; I had to do it some years ago when converting a FoxPro 2.6 database to Access 2000. If none of these helps, I'll try and dig out the relevant MS articles. HTH Ralph Bryce From artful at rogers.com Sat Sep 10 06:27:20 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:27:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: <005401c5b575$2224b800$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509101127.j8ABRQT06205@databaseadvisors.com> I might as well jump into this now, although I have been attempting to restrain myself. What JC is getting at, IMO, is the disconnect between how humans see a system and how developers/database designers see it. This is increasingly true as the humans tend to think of paper forms. The cool thing about paper forms is that you can fill in the boxes in any order you want. (We all know about the down side, so let's not waste time discussing that.) Faced with this sort of situation, I tend to go for a completely un-normalized table that grabs all the data for master and child and grandchild if necessary (customer info, order info, order detail info, and so on). The user is free to enter the data in any desired order (details first, customer second, order info last -- whatever). I don't care. I'll have a validation routine on the form to be sure, but as for the user hopping around in an unpredictable manner, I don't care. I will give them some help such as a combo-box with a list of customers and a not-in-list routine that exposes some additional controls if necessary, but I have no problem in terms of design in providing such an un-normalized form. The big thing is that this form talks to a temp table whose rows are tossed as soon as the user saves the record. At that point code kicks in and writes the various fields to their appropriate normalized destinations. This is never my first design choice, to be sure. But more than a few times it has proved appropriate for certain clients. The normalized pattern tends to create a UI where you first must obtain the customer info, adding the customer if necessary, then create the order, then create the order details. It may be, in a given business, that the order detail stuff is most important. (Think of selling tickets to a concert, or any other product where quantity is strictly limited, and sold on a first-come-first-serve basis.) You call me and say, "I want two tickets to the Stones in NYC." It is much more important to immediately reserve two tickets, removing them (temporarily) from inventory, than it is to obtain your name. Once I have reserved the tickets, then I can create the order and finally (and I might add, most gracefully) ask the customer her name and her credit card info. Imagine this transaction going the other way, in rude terms: "I want two Stones tickets." "Who the hell are you? Name, address, birthdate, credit card info?" Back and forth for a while... and then the last remaining tickets have been sold to somebody else. Nobody in their right mind, IMO, would be happy with a design like this. My un-normalized table approach may not be the best solution, but it does allow me to ask for the data in the reverse order, most important (order details) first, and then work back up the chain. IMO, it is simply graceful to secure the product first and only then ask for the customer info, once I am confident that I do in fact have two Stones tickets for you. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 9, 2005 3:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 06:44:10 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:14:10 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query References: <011201c5b5cb$a76accb0$371865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <002101c5b5fd$073eb2b0$8b1865cb@winxp> Further to my previous post, if the time span for moving total is to include only the period upto current date (not the whole current month), apart from the two months previous to current one, the query would stand modified as given below. For getting the moving average in a similar manner, Sum in the subquery can be replaced by Avg. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ======================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And T1.SDate <= T_Data.SDate) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D.Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:20 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 10 07:52:19 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:52:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050910125218.PNGS24572.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Different list -- wife controls the "honey do list... " :) Susan H. I was always under the impression that Rule #1 read: "My wife is always right" Rule #5 is then still correct. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 08:30:11 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:00:11 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent References: <005401c5b575$2224b800$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <001601c5b60b$d6e933b0$1e1865cb@winxp> Let SF_01 be the name of control on main form, acting as container for the subform in question. Code in its Enter event, as given below, will ensure that if the user tries to go into it while it happens to be in locked state, there will be a helpful message followed by transfer of focus to desired control on the main form. A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code in Enter event of SubFormContainerControl ================================== Private Sub SF_01_Enter() If SF_01.Locked = True Then MsgBox "Please Make Entry In ... First" ControlOnParentForm.SetFocus End If End Sub ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Colby To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 01:01 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 09:18:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:18:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: <200509101127.j8ABRQT06205@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006501c5b612$93b079d0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Of course this non-normalized method works quite well in certain situations, and it is absolutely imperative in certain situations where out of order entry is a functional requirement. OTOH, the programming overhead on an application by application basis. I quoted 10 hours for table build, 10 hours for form build, 10 hours for "support" and N hours for report building (open ended). This is a tiny system, designed to replace a spreadsheet with something more user friendly. This is a reasonable estimate, and I am hitting that estimate just fine. Would I be able to with "denormalized data entry"? This is a one user system - the sole user being the guy that hired me to build the system. He understands the entities being modeled, although not entirely the "m-m relationship tables". If I did none of the stuff I have been discussing in this thread it would be OK, with "training" filling the gaps. In systems where in order data entry can be accomplished, it cuts the system design down immensely and should be expected. I accomplish much of the "out of order requirement" from form input by ordering the data entry controls such that the parent objects just naturally get filled in if they don't exist. For example, in the disability insurance call center software, there is an input form. The first control is the "claimant". If the claimant is not found in the combo, a "not in list" event fires opening the claimant form where the claimant is filled in. When that form closes the claimant is now in the combo and can be selected. I use existing functionality, a claimant table, a claimant form, and a claimant combo with an existing event handler to cause the claimant to be captured if they aren't already in the system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent I might as well jump into this now, although I have been attempting to restrain myself. What JC is getting at, IMO, is the disconnect between how humans see a system and how developers/database designers see it. This is increasingly true as the humans tend to think of paper forms. The cool thing about paper forms is that you can fill in the boxes in any order you want. (We all know about the down side, so let's not waste time discussing that.) Faced with this sort of situation, I tend to go for a completely un-normalized table that grabs all the data for master and child and grandchild if necessary (customer info, order info, order detail info, and so on). The user is free to enter the data in any desired order (details first, customer second, order info last -- whatever). I don't care. I'll have a validation routine on the form to be sure, but as for the user hopping around in an unpredictable manner, I don't care. I will give them some help such as a combo-box with a list of customers and a not-in-list routine that exposes some additional controls if necessary, but I have no problem in terms of design in providing such an un-normalized form. The big thing is that this form talks to a temp table whose rows are tossed as soon as the user saves the record. At that point code kicks in and writes the various fields to their appropriate normalized destinations. This is never my first design choice, to be sure. But more than a few times it has proved appropriate for certain clients. The normalized pattern tends to create a UI where you first must obtain the customer info, adding the customer if necessary, then create the order, then create the order details. It may be, in a given business, that the order detail stuff is most important. (Think of selling tickets to a concert, or any other product where quantity is strictly limited, and sold on a first-come-first-serve basis.) You call me and say, "I want two tickets to the Stones in NYC." It is much more important to immediately reserve two tickets, removing them (temporarily) from inventory, than it is to obtain your name. Once I have reserved the tickets, then I can create the order and finally (and I might add, most gracefully) ask the customer her name and her credit card info. Imagine this transaction going the other way, in rude terms: "I want two Stones tickets." "Who the hell are you? Name, address, birthdate, credit card info?" Back and forth for a while... and then the last remaining tickets have been sold to somebody else. Nobody in their right mind, IMO, would be happy with a design like this. My un-normalized table approach may not be the best solution, but it does allow me to ask for the data in the reverse order, most important (order details) first, and then work back up the chain. IMO, it is simply graceful to secure the product first and only then ask for the customer info, once I am confident that I do in fact have two Stones tickets for you. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 9, 2005 3:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 09:19:10 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:19:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: <001601c5b60b$d6e933b0$1e1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <006601c5b612$a1c2ec60$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> In fact that was my first thought, however if subforms are on tabs then the focus is set into the subform when they click on the tab. I did not want to issue warnings just because a user clicked on the tab, but rather wait until a key was actually pressed while in a subform. In this case, in order to work "automagically" in a framework setting one of two things has to happen. The dclsFrm class will have to be informed by the parent dclsCtlSFrm the state of the ctlSFrm's Locked property, i.e. dclsCtlSFrm "pushed" it's locked state into the class for the subform it contains. This would allow the subform to issue the message itself when a key was clicked. The other method would require the subform's dclsFrm to be "informed" by dclsCtlSFrm that it is a subform and passed a pointer to dclsCtlSFrm. Then when a key click occurs, the subform's class could call a method of dclsCtlSFrm telling that class to check whether it was locked and issue a warning if so. There are advantages to each, but by and large I prefer an object to handle it's own issues, so I would tend to go with having the subform control class "tell" the subform's class that it is a subform and that its container is locked / unlocked, and allow the subform's class issue the warning. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Let SF_01 be the name of control on main form, acting as container for the subform in question. Code in its Enter event, as given below, will ensure that if the user tries to go into it while it happens to be in locked state, there will be a helpful message followed by transfer of focus to desired control on the main form. A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code in Enter event of SubFormContainerControl ================================== Private Sub SF_01_Enter() If SF_01.Locked = True Then MsgBox "Please Make Entry In ... First" ControlOnParentForm.SetFocus End If End Sub ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Colby To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 01:01 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 09:41:21 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:41:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Message-ID: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 09:42:34 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:12:34 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform References: <200509092223.j89MNCT12498@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00da01c5b615$f8bf9240$1e1865cb@winxp> Arthur, Sample syntax for using With/End With blocks, while referring to controls on the parent form (from within subform), or on the subform (from within parent form) is given below. SF_01 is the name of control acting as container for the subform. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code In Subform's Module =================================== With Me.Parent .Form("control1") = "Insertion-01 From Subform" .Form("control2") = "Insertion-02 From Subform" End With =================================== Code In Main form's Module =================================== With Me .Form("control1") = 124 .Form("control2") = "This is some text" With .SF_01 .Form("control1") = True .Form("control2") = "This is some more text" End With End With =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 03:53 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform Shamil recently assisted me with the syntax to refer to a control on a subform, and now I need to do the opposite from within a "With Me" block. I tried "Parent" as in the following sample line, with a couple of variations, but I got it wrong. With Me .Parent.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl.Value = 12345 End With And another thing about these "With Me" blocks. It appears from my experiments that you cannot nest them. I.e. With Me .control1 = 124 .control2 = "This is some text" With .mySubForm .control1 = True .control2 = "This is some more text" End With End With Whereas one can next Case blocks, While loops, If blocks, etc. Can anyone think of a logical reason why With blocks do not conform to the general rule? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 10 10:04:58 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <20050910150457.IYBT1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? Susan H. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 10:17:59 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:17:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <20050910150457.IYBT1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <007201c5b61a$d4630030$6501a8c0@HAL9004> D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button solution. Thanks, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook > containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets > separately, > of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow > you to specify the worksheet. > > =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: Show > Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 10:36:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:36:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <007201c5b61a$d4630030$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <006701c5b61d$6bde6150$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When you set up the link, the sheet name gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the link fails. This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU decide (such as Sheet1, or CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match what the link expects and everything is fine. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button solution. Thanks, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel > workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the > sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the > import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. > > =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: > Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sat Sep 10 10:51:47 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:51:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: ..are you still in touch with Andrei? ...iirc this is right up his alley.. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > Dear List: > > I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook > containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets > separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard > seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. > > Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do > the manual link or import procedure. > > OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import > It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems > with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 11:01:34 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:01:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006701c5b61d$6bde6150$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <009101c5b620$eac73660$6501a8c0@HAL9004> John: Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get them to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 times before they run the delete and append queries. What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the sheets > inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever the person > exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. Even if the > export > to Excel is automated, the designer may do something cute like name the > sheet with date and/or time info. When you set up the link, the sheet > name > gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the > link > fails. > > This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, then > you use automation to open the work book, then go through the sheets > setting > sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU decide (such as Sheet1, > or > CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match > what > the link expects and everything is fine. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just going to > jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I think I > should > use automation, though, so they can have a one-button solution. > > > Thanks, > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> >> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >> >> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >> >> Susan H. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 11:02:53 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:02:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <009601c5b621$1a205630$6501a8c0@HAL9004> We haven't communicated in a long time. But Colby's automation templates will probably do it. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > ..are you still in touch with Andrei? ...iirc this is right up his alley.. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:41 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> Dear List: >> >> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook >> containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets >> separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard >> seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >> >> Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do >> the manual link or import procedure. >> >> OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import >> It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems >> with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 11:20:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:20:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <009101c5b620$eac73660$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. 8-) Intel using your software! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets John: Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get them to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 times before they run the delete and append queries. What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the > sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever > the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. > Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do > something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When > you set up the link, the sheet name > gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the > link > fails. > > This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, > then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the > sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU > decide (such as Sheet1, or > CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match > what > the link expects and everything is fine. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just > going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I > think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button > solution. > > > Thanks, > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> >> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >> >> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >> >> Susan H. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 11:30:02 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:30:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. But still... Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > >What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe > system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. > > 8-) Intel using your software! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > John: > > Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get > them > > to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. > > I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link > directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 > times before they run the delete and append queries. > > What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe > system > > and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. > > Thanks and regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the >> sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever >> the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. >> Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do >> something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When >> you set up the link, the sheet name >> gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the >> link >> fails. >> >> This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, >> then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the >> sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU >> decide (such as Sheet1, or >> CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match >> what >> the link expects and everything is fine. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin - Beach Access Software >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >> D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just >> going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I >> think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button >> solution. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rocky >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Susan Harkins" >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >>> >>> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >>> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >>> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >>> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >>> >>> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >>> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >>> >>> Susan H. >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Sep 10 11:54:13 2005 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:54:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <000b01c5b628$45e99450$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Rocky, If the spreadsheet has a fixed format you can do this with queries. I have an app that a customer uses for this very purpose. I have it set up with the file explorer dialog so they can point to the file and bring their data into a temp table where we do some sanity checks on the data and then parse it out to the appropriate tables through some more queries. If your interested let me know off line and I'll see if I can pull out the query and dialog part and send over. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:41 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Sep 10 12:39:54 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:39:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query In-Reply-To: <002101c5b5fd$073eb2b0$8b1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <0IMM00A0U3QF42@l-daemon> There are times there is simply insufficient data to complete both the parent and child. In one system I worked on, there were the workers and then the companies that they worked for. The company was the parent record and the workers were the children. Before a worker could even work for any company there had to be a security check which might take up to a month to complete. After that the worker could be assigned to a company. This system was sort of backwards to most so... ...The worker was initially assigned to company '0' and then re-assigned to a real company or to company '1' if they turned out to be 'a person of interest' or left in the pending company all depending the check results and the requirements of the employers. By using this method the parent and child relationships were always maintained. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Further to my previous post, if the time span for moving total is to include only the period upto current date (not the whole current month), apart from the two months previous to current one, the query would stand modified as given below. For getting the moving average in a similar manner, Sum in the subquery can be replaced by Avg. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ======================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And T1.SDate <= T_Data.SDate) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D.Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:20 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 12:39:50 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:39:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <000b01c5b628$45e99450$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Message-ID: <006901c5b62e$aa0089c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Doug, How do you do this? Do you link the spreadsheet to the database first? Does your query use an IN clause to treat the spreadsheet as a database somehow? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Rocky, If the spreadsheet has a fixed format you can do this with queries. I have an app that a customer uses for this very purpose. I have it set up with the file explorer dialog so they can point to the file and bring their data into a temp table where we do some sanity checks on the data and then parse it out to the appropriate tables through some more queries. If your interested let me know off line and I'll see if I can pull out the query and dialog part and send over. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:41 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Sep 10 12:50:00 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:50:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <43231CC8.5010102@shaw.ca> Here are a couple of rough sample methods to import and export via ADO or DAO from Excel and Access. So you could do in VBA code You can specify the sheet or even the invididual cell range. You will have to fiddle around whether you want cell headers used in tables. In certain cases the sheet name may or maynot have to be preceeded by a "$" The reference to Excel 8.0 refers to the data format type of excel not the Version which hasn't changed since Excel 97, unlike Access. In most cases you have to import to a fresh table in access and I believe will overwrite the Sheet name on export to to excel Sub test() Dim oConn As New ADODB.Connection Dim oRS As New ADODB.Recordset Set oRS = New ADODB.Recordset Set oConn = New ADODB.Connection With oConn .Provider = "Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" .Properties("Extended Properties").Value = "Excel 8.0" .Open "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\Results\Products.xls" '.... 'Set oRS = cConn.Open("Select * from [Sheet1$A1:B10]", oConn, adOpenStatic) With oRS .Open "Insert Into tbltest SELECT * FROM [Products$A1:B10]", _ oConn, adOpenStatic '.Open "SELECT * FROM [Sheet1$] WHERE LastName = 'Doe'", _ ' cnnDB, adOpenDynamic, , adCmdText Debug.Print oRS.RecordCount .Close End With .Close End With End Sub Sub test2() 'sqlString = "SELECT * INTO [tblExcelNew] FROM [Excel 8.0;DATABASE=E:\MyDocuments\Test.xls;HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Sheet1$]" End Sub Sub ImportExcelToAccessAll() Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim sqlString As String Dim strmdbpath As String Dim strexcelpath As String Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb strmdbpath = "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\testADO range.mdb" strexcelpath = "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\Results\Products.xls" 'Assumes Access table does not already exist sqlString = "SELECT * INTO [tblExcelNew] FROM [Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & _ strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$A1:B100]" 'Assumes Access table exists 'sqlString = "INSERT INTO [tblExcelNew] (Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock)" & _ ' " SELECT Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock from" & _ ' "[Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$];" Debug.Print sqlString dbs.Execute sqlString Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Sub ImportExcelToAccess() Dim sqlString As String Dim strexcelpath As String Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb strexcelpath = "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\Results\Products.xls" 'Import to Excel 'Assumes Access table does not already exist sqlString = "SELECT * INTO [tblExcelNew] FROM [Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & _ strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$A1:B100]" 'export to Excel sqlString = " INSERT INTO [Excel 8.0;Database=C:\temp\MyWorkbook.xls;].[MySheet1$E6:G65536]" & _ "SELECT * FROM MyTable WHERE MyKeyCol = 99" 'Assumes Access table exists 'sqlString = "INSERT INTO [tblExcelNew] (Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock)" & _ ' " SELECT Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock from" & _ ' "[Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$];" Debug.Print sqlString dbs.Execute sqlString Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. >But still... > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John W. Colby" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:20 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > > >>>What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >>> >>> >>system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >>8-) Intel using your software! >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >>Beach Access Software >>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >>John: >> >>Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get >>them >> >>to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. >> >>I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link >>directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 >>times before they run the delete and append queries. >> >>What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >>system >> >>and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >>Thanks and regards, >> >>Rocky Smolin >>Beach Access Software >>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>858-259-4334 >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "John W. Colby" >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >> >> >>>One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the >>>sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever >>>the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. >>>Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do >>>something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When >>>you set up the link, the sheet name >>>gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the >>>link >>>fails. >>> >>>This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, >>>then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the >>>sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU >>>decide (such as Sheet1, or >>>CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match >>>what >>>the link expects and everything is fine. >>> >>>John W. Colby >>>www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>>Smolin - Beach Access Software >>>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>>D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just >>>going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I >>>think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button >>>solution. >>> >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Susan Harkins" >>>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >>>>workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >>>>sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >>>>import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >>>> >>>>=========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >>>>Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >>>> >>>>Susan H. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 13:07:28 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:07:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VB.Net Express data handling Message-ID: <006a01c5b632$860aec50$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I was trying to pull an existing class that I wrote in the old VB.Net into VB Express and it didn't compile. In investigating why, I just ran across these two articles. The new stuff in Express is pretty darned cool. http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnadonet/h tml/datasetenhance.asp http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnvs05/htm l/newdtastvs05.asp John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sat Sep 10 13:57:13 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: ..hey! ...I've got seven servers using Intel nics ...do they know its really Access? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. > But still... > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:20 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> >What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >> system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >> 8-) Intel using your software! >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >> John: >> >> Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get >> them >> >> to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. >> >> I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link >> directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 >> times before they run the delete and append queries. >> >> What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >> system >> >> and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John W. Colby" >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >>> One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the >>> sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever >>> the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. >>> Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do >>> something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When >>> you set up the link, the sheet name >>> gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the >>> link >>> fails. >>> >>> This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, >>> then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the >>> sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU >>> decide (such as Sheet1, or >>> CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match >>> what >>> the link expects and everything is fine. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin - Beach Access Software >>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>> D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just >>> going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I >>> think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button >>> solution. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Susan Harkins" >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >>>> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >>>> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >>>> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >>>> >>>> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >>>> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >>>> >>>> Susan H. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Sep 10 16:03:13 2005 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:03:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <006901c5b62e$aa0089c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5b64b$0f142cb0$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> John, Run the append query directly against the spreadsheet. I create the query in a string with the file path in the variable me.txtFilePath which comes from the dialog form. Here is an example. strSQL = "INSERT INTO tblImportTemp ( fldOrID, fldOrAssayID, fldTarget, fldReplicate, " _ & "fldDrugConcentration, fldModifier, fldModifierConcentration, fldResult )" _ & "SELECT [for Access$].OR_ID, [for Access$].Assay_ID, [for Access$].Target, " _ & "[for Access$].Replicate, [for Access$].[Conc(uM)], IIf(IsNull([for Access$].[Modifier]),""No_Mod"",[for Access$].[Modifier]) AS lModifier, " _ & "IIf(IsNull([for Access$].[Modifier_Conc]),0,[for Access$].[Modifier_Conc]) AS lModifier_Conc, [for Access$].Percent " _ & "FROM [for Access$] IN '" & Me.txtFilePath & "'[Excel 5.0; ];" There are several immediate If statements to make sure null fields have something in them. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Doug, How do you do this? Do you link the spreadsheet to the database first? Does your query use an IN clause to treat the spreadsheet as a database somehow? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Rocky, If the spreadsheet has a fixed format you can do this with queries. I have an app that a customer uses for this very purpose. I have it set up with the file explorer dialog so they can point to the file and bring their data into a temp table where we do some sanity checks on the data and then parse it out to the appropriate tables through some more queries. If your interested let me know off line and I'll see if I can pull out the query and dialog part and send over. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:41 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 10 18:43:56 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:43:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <20050910234355.GKSP10334.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> My sil and step-daughter work there. Susan H. Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. But still... From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Sep 11 00:50:41 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:50:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <20050910234355.GKSP10334.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01da01c5b694$be841770$6501a8c0@HAL9004> I'm supposed to go up there for a day maybe in a week or two. Names? Maybe I'll run into one of them. Give them your regards. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > My sil and step-daughter work there. > > Susan H. > > Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. > But still... > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From robert at servicexp.com Sun Sep 11 12:41:15 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 13:41:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F34@gbsserver.GBS.local> Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 12 07:17:41 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:17:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for your assistance -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query There are times there is simply insufficient data to complete both the parent and child. In one system I worked on, there were the workers and then the companies that they worked for. The company was the parent record and the workers were the children. Before a worker could even work for any company there had to be a security check which might take up to a month to complete. After that the worker could be assigned to a company. This system was sort of backwards to most so... ...The worker was initially assigned to company '0' and then re-assigned to a real company or to company '1' if they turned out to be 'a person of interest' or left in the pending company all depending the check results and the requirements of the employers. By using this method the parent and child relationships were always maintained. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Further to my previous post, if the time span for moving total is to include only the period upto current date (not the whole current month), apart from the two months previous to current one, the query would stand modified as given below. For getting the moving average in a similar manner, Sum in the subquery can be replaced by Avg. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ======================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And T1.SDate <= T_Data.SDate) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D.Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:20 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon Sep 12 14:51:34 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:51:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: <33ee9523c3b8426889f8b7f4297306ad@christopherhawkins.com> Gah, I finally got it. My querystring looks like this: "Driver={Microsoft Visual FoxPro Driver};SourceType=DBF;SourceDB=C:\Foo\Bar;Exclusive=No;Collate=Machine;NULL=NO;DELETED=NO;BACKGROUNDFETCH=NO" What a PITA. I am reminded why I stick to SQL Server and Oracle. ;) -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Hawkins" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com>, Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. > >UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. > >I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- >From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 12 16:47:55 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:47:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Subject headers on List In-Reply-To: <33ee9523c3b8426889f8b7f4297306ad@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <4326842B.25759.944F441@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Sep 2005 at 13:51, Christopher Hawkins wrote: "Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "............... Please! Can we either trim subjects or configure our anit-spam software to insert headers rather than modify subjects lines. This is getting ridiculous. -- Stuart From robert at servicexp.com Mon Sep 12 18:09:51 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:09:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F36@gbsserver.GBS.local> Anyone...?? I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH appreciated.... Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Mon Sep 12 19:01:31 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:01:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F37@gbsserver.GBS.local> The Error Report Generated basbeuDBAmodifyBEdatabase.beuDBArelationdelete ---------------------------------------------- Error number: 3265 Error Desc : Item not found in this collection. Error Msg : UnExpected Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error Anyone...?? I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH appreciated.... Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 12 19:31:44 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:31:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F36@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: On 12 Sep 2005 at 19:09, Robert Gracie wrote: > Anyone...?? > > I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH > appreciated.... Sorry Robert. I've been away from the computer for the last couple of days. I'm not sure if I understand your question. You can't delete a relationship with the BEU? If that's the case, can you send me, off- line, an example of where you can't delete the relationship. IE, just the data structure of the BE that won't work. I probably won't be able to look at it until tomorrow night, since I'm without access to a PC tomorrow during the day. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Every time I close the door on reality it comes in through the windows. From robert at servicexp.com Mon Sep 12 20:34:25 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:34:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F38@gbsserver.GBS.local> Bryan, The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least that's what it seams. In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution from you guys... :-) Does this help? Thanks Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error On 12 Sep 2005 at 19:09, Robert Gracie wrote: > Anyone...?? > > I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH > appreciated.... Sorry Robert. I've been away from the computer for the last couple of days. I'm not sure if I understand your question. You can't delete a relationship with the BEU? If that's the case, can you send me, off- line, an example of where you can't delete the relationship. IE, just the data structure of the BE that won't work. I probably won't be able to look at it until tomorrow night, since I'm without access to a PC tomorrow during the day. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Every time I close the door on reality it comes in through the windows. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Sep 12 20:53:43 2005 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Message-ID: <20050913015343.70474.qmail@web33114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 12 21:57:20 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:57:20 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT In-Reply-To: <20050913015343.70474.qmail@web33114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4326CCB0.10945.A603CB4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? > How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. -- Stuart From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon Sep 12 23:33:39 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:33:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F37@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: Robert, I don't remember ever having any trouble deleting a relationship. Andy Lacey handled grabbing the relationship name and I handled the actual deletion. So maybe he knows more about it. I don't, at all, understand the part of your question about deleting the link from the Front end though. What does that have to do with deleting a relationship? Are you deleting the relationship as a precursor to deleting a table? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error The Error Report Generated basbeuDBAmodifyBEdatabase.beuDBArelationdelete ---------------------------------------------- Error number: 3265 Error Desc : Item not found in this collection. Error Msg : UnExpected Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error Anyone...?? I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH appreciated.... Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Sep 13 00:05:21 2005 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT In-Reply-To: <4326CCB0.10945.A603CB4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20050913050521.16820.qmail@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry Stuart, I didn't even see them on the list. Thanks. Duh! Stuart McLachlan wrote: On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? > How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 02:12:51 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 00:12:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT References: <4326CCB0.10945.A603CB4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <43267BF3.9010909@shaw.ca> Here are two methods to get either general excel functions or those in the financial anaylsis pack from access Option Compare Database Option Explicit Function FindCeiling(pNumber As Double, pSignificance As Double) Dim xl As Excel.Application Dim varCeil As Variant 'general excel functions Set xl = CreateObject("excel.application") varCeil = xl.Application.Ceiling(pNumber, pSignificance) FindCeiling = varCeil End Function Assuming the Financial Analysis Toolpak installed Below is the code to get at the financial analysis toolpack's functions for excel xla library. Not sure which xla library has ACCRINT. 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Set objXL = New Excel.Application With objXL If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) 'intA and intB are parameters of call to LCM fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) Else fLCM = 0 MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Stuart McLachlan wrote: >On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? >> >> >> > >How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) > >They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. > > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 03:15:50 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:15:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT In-Reply-To: <43267BF3.9010909@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0IMQ00G0RXM905@l-daemon> Excellent solutions... What are you doing up so late? Good-night Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Here are two methods to get either general excel functions or those in the financial anaylsis pack from access Option Compare Database Option Explicit Function FindCeiling(pNumber As Double, pSignificance As Double) Dim xl As Excel.Application Dim varCeil As Variant 'general excel functions Set xl = CreateObject("excel.application") varCeil = xl.Application.Ceiling(pNumber, pSignificance) FindCeiling = varCeil End Function Assuming the Financial Analysis Toolpak installed Below is the code to get at the financial analysis toolpack's functions for excel xla library. Not sure which xla library has ACCRINT. 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Set objXL = New Excel.Application With objXL If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) 'intA and intB are parameters of call to LCM fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) Else fLCM = 0 MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Stuart McLachlan wrote: >On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? >> >> >> > >How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) > >They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. > > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue Sep 13 04:59:11 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:59:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F38@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: On 12 Sep 2005 at 21:34, Robert Gracie wrote: > Bryan, > The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine > that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least > that's what it seams. > > In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was > used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works > ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and > relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. > > It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long > alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a > name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this > GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. > > If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at > the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember > what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution > from you guys... :-) > > Does this help? Robert, Like Reuben I don't recall this issue either. I have looked through my e-mails and I can't find any issue that is remotely related to this. The only thing that I can think of is to copy the actual BE to your dev box, this should have the relationship name the same as the production BE. Use this BE to define the relationship delete. That's as close as a guess I can come up with now. And unfortunately Andy is on vacation for 3 week. :( Sorry, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line. From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Tue Sep 13 08:36:09 2005 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02A8B2C1@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Hello all, In the past I have jumped through some pretty big hoops to give my users the ability to search and jump to the record(s) that they are in need of getting to. Searching on a single form is easy enough through the Search, or QBF, but what about when you have subforms, or want the users to search through the entire database for something or have a memo field that is need of searching.. Anyway, I was just wondering if I was missing the boat on the search capabilities of Access. It is so labor intensive to give the users a searchable form so they can easily jump to the desired record, as I very rarely have a single independent form that does not have a subform or 2 in it. Any tips, tricks, hints would be greatly appreciated.. Or pointers to any white papers, articles, tutorials.. Anything useful would be great as I've searched the archives and Google without much success.. Thanks, Rich From hoopesg at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:48:17 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:48:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Message-ID: Is it possible to set the cursor at the beginning of a field on got focus? I often provide people with an input mask for a date field but if they click into the field instead of tabbing (or Enter-ing) in they end up having trouble getting the date in correctly. Thanks, Gina From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:53:55 2005 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:53:55 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: Rich, Having some apps with similar needs...I typically create a search screen that allows the user to "mix/match" their search criteria...the form has 7 or 8 fields the user might want to search...and can fill in partially or fully 1 or all fields. A query is then run using these fields as criteria. The results are displayed in a subform...when the desired record is found...the actual form used to display all pertinent fields( and subforms) is launched using the PK of the record selected and only displays this record. I'm not sure if this is the best approach...just my favorite and most reliable for this function I have found. There are a few 'twists' to the approach...depending on how many records you are searching. If you are interested...I can go into more detail...or put together a sample to send OffList. Hope it helps... Mark A. Matte P.S...(just a little ACCESSD humor)...I was scared to use the word "unbound" to reference the search screen I described, because I know some of the discussions it might spawn...but anyway... >From: "Lavsa, Rich" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving", >Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:36:09 -0400 > >Hello all, > >In the past I have jumped through some pretty big hoops to give my users >the ability to search and jump to the record(s) that they are in need of >getting to. > >Searching on a single form is easy enough through the Search, or QBF, >but what about when you have subforms, or want the users to search >through the entire database for something or have a memo field that is >need of searching.. > >Anyway, I was just wondering if I was missing the boat on the search >capabilities of Access. It is so labor intensive to give the users a >searchable form so they can easily jump to the desired record, as I very >rarely have a single independent form that does not have a subform or 2 >in it. > >Any tips, tricks, hints would be greatly appreciated.. Or pointers to >any white papers, articles, tutorials.. Anything useful would be great >as I've searched the archives and Google without much success.. > >Thanks, >Rich >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:54:43 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:54:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access In-Reply-To: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02A8B2C1@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Message-ID: Rich, I found Martin Green's page to be somewhat helpful. Try this link for a description of a search box. http://www.fontstuff.com/access/acctut17.htm Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:59:44 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:59:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Message-ID: Hi List, I have a different kind of question. I'm using an Address Block for a snaking report. Within the "members" table, I have a field for Website Address formatted as a hyperlink. When the field shows up on the report, it looks like this: www.businessname.com #http://www.businessname.com# This is obviously because of the hyperlink. Is there a way to format that field so that the http portion does not show up, yet still maintain the hyperlink in the table? The users like the hyperlink, because all they have to do is click on the web address and the hyperlink takes the user right to the members website, so I would hate to get rid of it. Any ideas? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Tue Sep 13 10:01:09 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:01:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CD71@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> I presume your field is a bound textbox on a form? On the gotfocus event of the textbox, manipulate the sellength, selstart, and seltext properties to position the cursor. This should do the trick. Cheers Tom -----Original Message----- From: Gina Hoopes [mailto:hoopesg at hotmail.com] Sent: 13-Sep-2005 15:48 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Is it possible to set the cursor at the beginning of a field on got focus? I often provide people with an input mask for a date field but if they click into the field instead of tabbing (or Enter-ing) in they end up having trouble getting the date in correctly. Thanks, Gina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 10:11:53 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:11:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMR00J1NGVQRD@l-daemon> Hi Gina: This line of code would set the cursor to the last position of a piece of data in a field. txtMyFormField.SelStart = txtMyFormField.SelLength If the field is empty the cursor is placed at the first position in the field. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gina Hoopes Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:48 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Is it possible to set the cursor at the beginning of a field on got focus? I often provide people with an input mask for a date field but if they click into the field instead of tabbing (or Enter-ing) in they end up having trouble getting the date in correctly. Thanks, Gina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 10:20:21 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:20:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMR0021DH9U2O@l-daemon> Hi Julie: Would it not be easy to pre-process the field contents removing the '#' from both ends and print the result? Mid(txtMyField1.txt,2,len(txtMyField1.txt)-1) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:00 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Hi List, I have a different kind of question. I'm using an Address Block for a snaking report. Within the "members" table, I have a field for Website Address formatted as a hyperlink. When the field shows up on the report, it looks like this: www.businessname.com #http://www.businessname.com# This is obviously because of the hyperlink. Is there a way to format that field so that the http portion does not show up, yet still maintain the hyperlink in the table? The users like the hyperlink, because all they have to do is click on the web address and the hyperlink takes the user right to the members website, so I would hate to get rid of it. Any ideas? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 10:37:41 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:37:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: <0IMR0021DH9U2O@l-daemon> Message-ID: Hi Jim, I guess I could do that. Was just hoping that I could wrap "format()" around the field on the report and take out the hyperlink portion. You see, they have entered the URL into the field which by definition is a hyperlink, so when you view the field on a form, all you see is the www.businessname.com. However, behind the scenes, Access has also added the #http://www.businessname.com# in addition to the web address. So you see, there are two URL's that show up on the report. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Tue Sep 13 10:46:31 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:46:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Julie, Just a thought as I have never worked that much with Hyperlink fields, if your report looks at a query then couldn't you add something like this to it: SELECT Left([HyperlinkField], (instr([HyperlinkField],"#")-1)) As RptWebAddress Paul Hartland Database Developer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: 13 September 2005 16:38 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Hi Jim, I guess I could do that. Was just hoping that I could wrap "format()" around the field on the report and take out the hyperlink portion. You see, they have entered the URL into the field which by definition is a hyperlink, so when you view the field on a form, all you see is the www.businessname.com. However, behind the scenes, Access has also added the #http://www.businessname.com# in addition to the web address. So you see, there are two URL's that show up on the report. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 11:09:08 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:09:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access References: Message-ID: <4326F9A4.8020009@shaw.ca> Use the hyperlinkpart function, it is called without access constants in SQL From the old Access97 help file HyperlinkPart Function Example The following example uses all four of the part argument constants to display information returned by the HyperlinkPart function for each record in a table containing a Hyperlink field. To try this example, paste the DisplayHyperlinkParts procedure into the Declarations section of a module. You can call the DisplayHyperlinkParts procedure from the Debug window, passing to it the name of a table containing hyperlinks and the name of the field containing Hyperlink data. For example: DisplayHyperlinkParts "MyHyperlinkTableName", "MyHyperlinkFieldName" Sub DisplayHyperlinkParts(strTable As String, strField As String) Dim dbs As Database, rst As Recordset Dim strMsg As String Set dbs = CurrentDb Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordset(strTable) While Not rst.EOF ' For each record in table. strMsg = "DisplayValue = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acDisplayedValue) _ & vbCrLf & "DisplayText = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acDisplayText) _ & vbCrLf & "Address = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acAddress) _ & vbCrLf & "SubAddress = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acSubAddress) ' Show parts returned by HyperlinkPart function. MsgBox strMsg rst.MoveNext Wend End Sub When you use the HyperlinkPart function in a query, the part argument is required. For example, the following SQL statement uses the HyperlinkPart function to return information about data stored as a Hyperlink data type in the URL field of the Links table: SELECT Links.URL, HyperlinkPart([URL],0) AS Display, HyperlinkPart([URL],1) AS Name, HyperlinkPart([URL],2) AS Addr, HyperlinkPart([URL],3) AS SubAddr FROM Links; Julie Reardon-Taylor wrote: >Hi List, > >I have a different kind of question. I'm using an Address Block for a >snaking report. Within the "members" table, I have a field for Website >Address formatted as a hyperlink. When the field shows up on the report, it >looks like this: www.businessname.com #http://www.businessname.com# > >This is obviously because of the hyperlink. Is there a way to format that >field so that the http portion does not show up, yet still maintain the >hyperlink in the table? > >The users like the hyperlink, because all they have to do is click on the >web address and the hyperlink takes the user right to the members website, >so I would hate to get rid of it. > >Any ideas? > > > > > >Julie Reardon-Taylor >PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. >44 Public Square Suite #5 >Watertown, NY 13601 >Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 >www.pro-soft.net > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue Sep 13 11:21:18 2005 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:21:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's In-Reply-To: <0IMR00J1NGVQRD@l-daemon> Message-ID: <000f01c5b87f$2ef0af50$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable for that. Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file names searchable ... Any help out there? Tia, Steve From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 11:28:05 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:28:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: <4326F9A4.8020009@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Wow, I couldn't find anything in 2003 that would help me. Thank you so much Marty. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From KIsmert at texassystems.com Tue Sep 13 12:08:05 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:08:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW Message-ID: Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, I looked o'er the store shelf and what did I see, Comin' for serve me some lunch, A blue can of hog flesh starin' back at me, Comin' for serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch !!!! -Ken From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 13:10:03 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:10:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access References: Message-ID: <432715FB.6010902@shaw.ca> I cheat, even on systems where I have only Access 2003, I reuse the old 97 help files. I also have desktop shortcuts to the adosql.chm and XMLsdk.chm ado260.chm etc. help files. Then when in access I just do a WinKey-M keystroke to get to the desktop. This keystroke just miminizes all open windows. The best bet for vba coding help is to retain the Access 97 help files and access via a desktop shortcut. You need all the .HLP, .AW, .CNT, .GID, and .FTG files from access97 that are installed in Program Files/Microsoft Office/Office Program Files/Common Files/Microsoft Shared Zip them up for later installs elsewhere into a new directory run a shortcut to ACMAIN80.HLP There is a way to put this on your command menus in Access via a button =Shell("C:\WINDOWS\winhlp32.exe C:\msoffice97\office\Acmain80.hlp", 1) Julie Reardon-Taylor wrote: >Wow, I couldn't find anything in 2003 that would help me. Thank you so much >Marty. > > > >Julie Reardon-Taylor >PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. >44 Public Square Suite #5 >Watertown, NY 13601 >Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 >www.pro-soft.net > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Sep 13 13:15:54 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:15:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3DEE@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> To quote an old pro (may be familiar to NRA types): "You can have my Access 97 help file when you pry it from my cold dead hard drive!" Good tip Marty. I keep my shortcut to this on top of the Start Menu. Note to non-US listers - NRA = National Rifle Association Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access I cheat, even on systems where I have only Access 2003, I reuse the old 97 help files. I also have desktop shortcuts to the adosql.chm and XMLsdk.chm ado260.chm etc. help files. Then when in access I just do a WinKey-M keystroke to get to the desktop. This keystroke just miminizes all open windows. The best bet for vba coding help is to retain the Access 97 help files and access via a desktop shortcut. You need all the .HLP, .AW, .CNT, .GID, and .FTG files from access97 that are installed in Program Files/Microsoft Office/Office Program Files/Common Files/Microsoft Shared Zip them up for later installs elsewhere into a new directory run a shortcut to ACMAIN80.HLP There is a way to put this on your command menus in Access via a button =Shell("C:\WINDOWS\winhlp32.exe C:\msoffice97\office\Acmain80.hlp", 1) Julie Reardon-Taylor wrote: >Wow, I couldn't find anything in 2003 that would help me. Thank you so much >Marty. > > > >Julie Reardon-Taylor >PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. >44 Public Square Suite #5 >Watertown, NY 13601 >Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 >www.pro-soft.net > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 13:47:04 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:47:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's References: <000f01c5b87f$2ef0af50$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Message-ID: <43271EA8.2010906@shaw.ca> I use Google Desktop, maybe someone will write a plugin to search mdb's Maybe there is something similar for below method in MSN I am not using latest version of GDSE. but in the search bar type in filetype:mdb which will give me a couple of thousand mdb's in under 5 seconds or say for string in file name hyperlink filetype:mdb It will search inside all your text files with something like hyperlink filetype:txt Just your web links hyperlink filetype:url By the way using the GSDE you can call with API's from Access to get results returned in xml still a few bugs tho, especially with international (non latin) encoding of xml. Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) wrote: >MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It >doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable >for that. > >Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content >indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file >names searchable ... > >Any help out there? > >Tia, >Steve > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KIsmert at texassystems.com Tue Sep 13 14:10:24 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:10:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: Would you be interested in a solution that: (1) Doesn't build a SQL statement or Where clause (2) Doesn't build a filter string (3) Because of (2), can be setup to allow the user to do their form filtering/sorting on top of your custom search criteria (4) Can be a single form (5) Can use as little as 1 line of code -Ken From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Tue Sep 13 14:34:21 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:34:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337823@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> FYI here is how you can call Excel functions from Access: Two caveats- Not all Excel functions can be accessed (I believe there is a list of the valid functions in help). Second, an instance of Excel is launched so I would be judious in calling functions this way. It can be like using a bazooka on a fly (although flies here in Tx sometimes require one) Jim Hale Function irrExample() As Double 'Under tools references check the Microsoft excel 8.0 library Dim appExcel As Excel.Application Set appExcel = Excel.Application irrExample = appExcel.WorksheetFunction.irr(Cashflow) appExcel.Quit Set appExcel = Nothing MsgBox irrExample 'show the answer End Function Function Cashflow() As Variant Dim intI As Integer, arrCashflow(24) As Variant '****** The following loop generates the values for the IRR calculation 'you probably will want to fill the arrCashflow array from a table For intI = 1 To 24 arrCashflow(intI) = 1000 Next arrCashflow(0) = -20000 'set the initial cash outflow Cashflow = arrCashflow '****** End Function -----Original Message----- From: Lonnie Johnson [mailto:prodevmg at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Sorry Stuart, I didn't even see them on the list. Thanks. Duh! Stuart McLachlan wrote: On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? > How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. -- Stuart *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Tue Sep 13 14:34:55 2005 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:34:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02A8B329@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> That would be great.. Is that possible.. Rich -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Searching Access Would you be interested in a solution that: (1) Doesn't build a SQL statement or Where clause (2) Doesn't build a filter string (3) Because of (2), can be setup to allow the user to do their form filtering/sorting on top of your custom search criteria (4) Can be a single form (5) Can use as little as 1 line of code -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hoopesg at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 16:37:27 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:37:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Message-ID: Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Hi Gina: This line of code would set the cursor to the last position of a piece of data in a field. txtMyFormField.SelStart = txtMyFormField.SelLength If the field is empty the cursor is placed at the first position in the field. HTH Jim From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Tue Sep 13 18:17:03 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:17:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Row level locking option - A2K Message-ID: G'day folks, Can anyone tell me whether selecting "Open databases using record level locking" on the Options/Advanced tab applies row level locking to linked tables or not? It appears to me that it doesn't... unless I have another problem somewere :-( If it doesn't, what is the impact of setting row level locking on the two BE databases used? Are the locks "passed through" sort of thing (I realise the locks are technically applied in the BE's). Finally, anyone got any ideas on the following - even where to start looking: I and one other guy are the only two users of this system. I've got A2K full and he is using the runtime. The FE and both BE's are on a Novel lan. generally, all things work OK, except... There is one form we wnat to use. It's datasource is a join over 5 tables - 4 in one BE and one in the other. It has several dropdowns that use data lookup from single tables in the BE's and has two subforms that display the same records - one as a list and one as a detail. This form would replace 3 active forms and could sit open all day .. iff it worked. BUT! it works fine for me but not for him. Anytime he tries to open it all he gets is a "A runtime error has occurred, this application will now close" etc etc. Any clues?? tia bruce This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Tue Sep 13 18:38:18 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:38:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server Message-ID: <200509132341.j8DNfKT19755@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Y'all Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to connect an Acces DB (Access 2003) to an SQL dB? Many thanks DD _________________________ Darren DICK TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au W: www.tripledee.com.au From dmcafee at pacbell.net Tue Sep 13 18:55:07 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <200509132341.j8DNfKT19755@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050913235507.63394.qmail@web80809.mail.yahoo.com> Access ADP: File -> Connection --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to > connect an Acces DB (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dmcafee at pacbell.net Tue Sep 13 19:08:51 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <200509132341.j8DNfKT19755@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050914000851.54734.qmail@web80821.mail.yahoo.com> Access ADP: File -> Connection Enter Server Name Select Login info (username / password) Select database MDB: In the Access MDI window, click on tables Right click in any white area -> Choose link tables Change "Files of Type" to ODBC Databases Select your datasource* * IF your datasource has not been created: Click on Machine Data Source tab Click on New Choose your datasource type (lets use System Data Source) Click Next, scroll to bottom and choose SQL Server Click Finish (even though you're not) Name the DataSource (so you can find it the next time you link tables) "DarrensSQLConnection" (or something more meaningful) Give it a description (usually just copy the line above) Select the server Click Next Select Login type / Fill in Uname & PW Click Next Check box that reads: Change the default databse to: Select DB Click Next Click Finish (you're still not finished) Test connection, if good click OK Now you are back where we left off before creating the Datasource Enter Login ID and password Press OK Select your tables (but dont press OK) click on Save password (many forget to do this) Now press OK. Hope this helps. David McAfee --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to > connect an Acces DB (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 20:19:57 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:19:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: <02bb01c5b8ca$6bb4c200$6501a8c0@HAL9004> I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access database to MySQL. If you can help write to srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 20:21:13 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:21:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: <02c401c5b8ca$98fa4410$6501a8c0@HAL9004> P.S. if you want to call, call this number: 858-437-3320 - ask for Scott. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:19 PM Subject: Emergency MySQL job I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access database to MySQL. If you can help write to srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From jmhecht at earthlink.net Tue Sep 13 20:46:38 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:46:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question Message-ID: <000c01c5b8ce$265add30$6401a8c0@laptop1> I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my Katrina help. Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units per box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA From jmhecht at earthlink.net Tue Sep 13 20:52:55 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:52:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A Another Inventory question Message-ID: <000001c5b8cf$071561b0$6401a8c0@laptop1> When doing an item out of inventory, when and how would you check and make sure you have that many widgets to pull out of stock. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 22:30:13 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:30:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question References: <000c01c5b8ce$265add30$6401a8c0@laptop1> Message-ID: <030601c5b8dc$9ea35f70$6501a8c0@HAL9004> If your system has unit of measure conversion then you can receive pallets and stock boxes or items. In what units are the things issued from inventory? That would be the units you want to stock them in. I would guess that boxes would be the most common issuing unit. Therefore when receiving items, receive the number of boxes. And issue boxes. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Hecht" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:46 PM Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question >I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my > Katrina help. > > Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units > per > box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. > > Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? > > > > Joe Hecht > Los Angeles CA > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 22:32:33 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:32:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A Another Inventory question References: <000001c5b8cf$071561b0$6401a8c0@laptop1> Message-ID: <030b01c5b8dc$f1bd5440$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Assuming you have an order, write a "pull" report showing how many of each item to be pulled on that order, then number on hand and the balance after the pull. Of course if you have several orders to pull, you need to consolidate all the items from all the orders you want to pull and run the same report, highlighting the shortages. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Hecht" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:52 PM Subject: [AccessD] A Another Inventory question > When doing an item out of inventory, when and how would you check and make > sure you have that many widgets to pull out of stock. > > Joe Hecht > Los Angeles CA > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Wed Sep 14 02:09:59 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:09:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20050914000851.54734.qmail@web80821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200509140712.j8E7CxT04768@databaseadvisors.com> David - you da man Will let you know how I got on Many thanks DD Darren TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2005 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server Access ADP: File -> Connection Enter Server Name Select Login info (username / password) Select database MDB: In the Access MDI window, click on tables Right click in any white area -> Choose link tables Change "Files of Type" to ODBC Databases Select your datasource* * IF your datasource has not been created: Click on Machine Data Source tab Click on New Choose your datasource type (lets use System Data Source) Click Next, scroll to bottom and choose SQL Server Click Finish (even though you're not) Name the DataSource (so you can find it the next time you link tables) "DarrensSQLConnection" (or something more meaningful) Give it a description (usually just copy the line above) Select the server Click Next Select Login type / Fill in Uname & PW Click Next Check box that reads: Change the default databse to: Select DB Click Next Click Finish (you're still not finished) Test connection, if good click OK Now you are back where we left off before creating the Datasource Enter Login ID and password Press OK Select your tables (but dont press OK) click on Save password (many forget to do this) Now press OK. Hope this helps. David McAfee --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to connect an Acces DB > (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 14 05:25:42 2005 From: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk (John Porter) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:25:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: Have a look at http://www.kitebird.com/articles/access-migrate.html John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: 14 September 2005 02:20 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access database to MySQL. If you can help write to srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Sep 14 09:33:37 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:33:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337829@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> If you don't keep track of pallet count how do you reconcile to the shipping documents? Also, warehouse location often needs pallet count information to determine, for example, if a forklift is needed. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhecht at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my Katrina help. Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units per box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 09:42:58 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:42:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Row level locking option - A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bruce, I don't think it's a locking issue in the sense that your thinking. in fact, enabling row level locking may only make the problem worse. Chances are you are bumping into the lock limit in Novell and that's causing the problem. Novell limits the number of locks to stop a run away process, but Access needs a lot of locks to do what it does, even when locking at page level. Here's a link to check out: http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/2914607.htm Also make sure your up to date on your clients, as it may be related to this issue: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q236101/ I know it says Access 97, but it applies to latter versions as well. It's amazing how often you still see old clients being used. Won't hurt either to make sure your up to date on Office and JET as well. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bruen, Bruce Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Row level locking option - A2K G'day folks, Can anyone tell me whether selecting "Open databases using record level locking" on the Options/Advanced tab applies row level locking to linked tables or not? It appears to me that it doesn't... unless I have another problem somewere :-( If it doesn't, what is the impact of setting row level locking on the two BE databases used? Are the locks "passed through" sort of thing (I realise the locks are technically applied in the BE's). Finally, anyone got any ideas on the following - even where to start looking: I and one other guy are the only two users of this system. I've got A2K full and he is using the runtime. The FE and both BE's are on a Novel lan. generally, all things work OK, except... There is one form we wnat to use. It's datasource is a join over 5 tables - 4 in one BE and one in the other. It has several dropdowns that use data lookup from single tables in the BE's and has two subforms that display the same records - one as a list and one as a detail. This form would replace 3 active forms and could sit open all day .. iff it worked. BUT! it works fine for me but not for him. Anytime he tries to open it all he gets is a "A runtime error has occurred, this application will now close" etc etc. Any clues?? tia bruce This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 10:24:50 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:24:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337829@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <000e01c5b940$74b28830$6401a8c0@laptop1> That's why I love this list. Experienced people in all industries. Thanks. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 7:34 AM To: access at joe2.endjunk.com; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Inventory Question If you don't keep track of pallet count how do you reconcile to the shipping documents? Also, warehouse location often needs pallet count information to determine, for example, if a forklift is needed. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhecht at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my Katrina help. Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units per box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 14 14:11:47 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:11:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job References: Message-ID: <432875F3.4030004@shaw.ca> Here is a $35 dollar Access Addin solution for moving simple tables to MySQL Does some MYSQL management too. http://www.hiden.org/myaccess/index.htm John Porter wrote: >Have a look at http://www.kitebird.com/articles/access-migrate.html > > >John R. Porter >I.T. Services >University of Strathclyde >Faculty of Education >76 Southbrae Drive >Glasgow >G13 1PP >e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk >Tel. 0141 950 3289 > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >- Beach Access Software >Sent: 14 September 2005 02:20 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job > >I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access >database to MySQL. If you can help write to >srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. > >Regards, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com >858-259-4334 >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jeff at outbaktech.com Wed Sep 14 14:57:28 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:57:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: Or go to the mysql website and download the free migration tool Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of MartyConnelly Sent: Wed 9/14/2005 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Here is a $35 dollar Access Addin solution for moving simple tables to MySQL Does some MYSQL management too. http://www.hiden.org/myaccess/index.htm John Porter wrote: >Have a look at http://www.kitebird.com/articles/access-migrate.html > > >John R. Porter >I.T. Services >University of Strathclyde >Faculty of Education >76 Southbrae Drive >Glasgow >G13 1PP >e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk >Tel. 0141 950 3289 > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >- Beach Access Software >Sent: 14 September 2005 02:20 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job > >I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access >database to MySQL. If you can help write to >srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. > >Regards, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com >858-259-4334 >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 14 15:23:38 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:23:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job In-Reply-To: <432875F3.4030004@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200509142023.j8EKNdT15042@databaseadvisors.com> Since we're on the subject - does anyone have as easy of an answer for the other way around? From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Sep 14 16:18:11 2005 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:18:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's In-Reply-To: <43271EA8.2010906@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <002401c5b971$d2faec30$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Thanks, Marty. Well, Google won't run for some reason on my testing PC, but I just saw an article in PC World reviewing the latest crop of search apps. Right now I am testing Copernic, a freebie that lets you just add file extensions to its index - if it doesn't know what it is, it just indexes the file names. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's I use Google Desktop, maybe someone will write a plugin to search mdb's Maybe there is something similar for below method in MSN I am not using latest version of GDSE. but in the search bar type in filetype:mdb which will give me a couple of thousand mdb's in under 5 seconds or say for string in file name hyperlink filetype:mdb It will search inside all your text files with something like hyperlink filetype:txt Just your web links hyperlink filetype:url By the way using the GSDE you can call with API's from Access to get results returned in xml still a few bugs tho, especially with international (non latin) encoding of xml. Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) wrote: >MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It >doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable >for that. > >Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content >indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file >names searchable ... > >Any help out there? > >Tia, >Steve > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 17:09:48 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:09:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F39@gbsserver.GBS.local> Ken, LOL Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, I looked o'er the store shelf and what did I see, Comin' for serve me some lunch, A blue can of hog flesh starin' back at me, Comin' for serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch !!!! -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 17:10:27 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:10:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3A@gbsserver.GBS.local> Ken, Do tell, Do tell Thanks Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Searching Access Would you be interested in a solution that: (1) Doesn't build a SQL statement or Where clause (2) Doesn't build a filter string (3) Because of (2), can be setup to allow the user to do their form filtering/sorting on top of your custom search criteria (4) Can be a single form (5) Can use as little as 1 line of code -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:40 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3B@gbsserver.GBS.local> Ok, Here is what the BEU Function beuDBAGetRelations returns for the relationship name. First Relationship Attempting To Delete. The GUID was created when I set up the BEU Works on 2 out of 8 BE's (Including my Dev BE) {437453F8-115D-4F78-A3EA-D92C48AB93BA} Works on 8 out of 2 BE's z_RFil5_tblReportFilters_z_RFil5_tblReportFiltersContents_263 In order for me to get this to work on the 8 BE I tested, I had to remove the above GUID from within the tblDBAModifyDatabase table and paste the 2nd string. However, it now does not work on the original 2.. Keep in mind the table & relationship structure is exactly the same between the BE's Second Relationship Attempting To Delete. The GUID was created when I set up the BEU {EF51A485-8316-40DE-A598-7D7D5C91D890} z_RFil5_tblReport_z_RFil5_tblReportFilters_262 Any ideas?? I have over 200 db's, through out the country, that need this update...:-( Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error On 12 Sep 2005 at 21:34, Robert Gracie wrote: > Bryan, > The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine > that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least > that's what it seams. > > In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was > used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works > ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and > relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. > > It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long > alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a > name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this > GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. > > If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at > the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember > what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution > from you guys... :-) > > Does this help? Robert, Like Reuben I don't recall this issue either. I have looked through my e-mails and I can't find any issue that is remotely related to this. The only thing that I can think of is to copy the actual BE to your dev box, this should have the relationship name the same as the production BE. Use this BE to define the relationship delete. That's as close as a guess I can come up with now. And unfortunately Andy is on vacation for 3 week. :( Sorry, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 19:32:51 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:32:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3C@gbsserver.GBS.local> Also, I should note, that the BEU created the relationships.. I'm going to try and find a BE that is at least 3 years old (one with out the original tables & relationships) and test against that.. Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error On 12 Sep 2005 at 21:34, Robert Gracie wrote: > Bryan, > The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine > that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least > that's what it seams. > > In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was > used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works > ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and > relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. > > It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long > alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a > name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this > GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. > > If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at > the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember > what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution > from you guys... :-) > > Does this help? Robert, Like Reuben I don't recall this issue either. I have looked through my e-mails and I can't find any issue that is remotely related to this. The only thing that I can think of is to copy the actual BE to your dev box, this should have the relationship name the same as the production BE. Use this BE to define the relationship delete. That's as close as a guess I can come up with now. And unfortunately Andy is on vacation for 3 week. :( Sorry, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 19:43:50 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:43:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3C@gbsserver.GBS.local> References: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3C@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: On 14/09/05, Robert Gracie wrote: > > Also, I should note, that the BEU created the relationships.. > > I'm going to try and find a BE that is at least 3 years old (one with > out the original tables & relationships) and test against that.. Robert, Could you send me a few of the BEs with the data stripped out? A couple that work one way and a couple that work the other and an old one if you find it? And maybe one that works both ways. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Thu Sep 15 07:58:58 2005 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:58:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: <200509151249.j8FCnSl25912@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Hi Group I have been asked about Source Code Escrow regarding a system I have written. My understanding is that I deposit the source with a third party and should my business fail or it fails to deliver support etc for the product the licensee can apply to have access/a copy of the source code to allow support/further development. Any one any experience here, pitfalls etc. Another question is what sort of fee (subscription) to charge the licensee - is there a rule of thumb, standard fees etc Cheers Richard From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Sep 15 08:11:56 2005 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:11:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's - solved In-Reply-To: <002401c5b971$d2faec30$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Message-ID: <000401c5b9f7$0fa501e0$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Well, if anyone cares, deep in the Advanced Options of MSN's indexing, there is a list of extensions *not* indexed. Taking "mdb" out of this got it to index the mdb's. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's Thanks, Marty. Well, Google won't run for some reason on my testing PC, but I just saw an article in PC World reviewing the latest crop of search apps. Right now I am testing Copernic, a freebie that lets you just add file extensions to its index - if it doesn't know what it is, it just indexes the file names. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's I use Google Desktop, maybe someone will write a plugin to search mdb's Maybe there is something similar for below method in MSN I am not using latest version of GDSE. but in the search bar type in filetype:mdb which will give me a couple of thousand mdb's in under 5 seconds or say for string in file name hyperlink filetype:mdb It will search inside all your text files with something like hyperlink filetype:txt Just your web links hyperlink filetype:url By the way using the GSDE you can call with API's from Access to get results returned in xml still a few bugs tho, especially with international (non latin) encoding of xml. Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) wrote: >MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It >doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable >for that. > >Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content >indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file >names searchable ... > >Any help out there? > >Tia, >Steve > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 15 09:28:09 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] finding duplicate records based on two fields Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337832@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I have a table with fixed assets by co and dept. I need to find the duplicates- ie records where co and dept are the same. Using the duplicate wizard I can construct the query to find duplicates where the dept is the same but I can't figure out the sql to find the records where two fields are the same. Any help will be appreciated. Below is the sql that finds dept duplicates TIA Jim Hale SELECT [Other Assets].Dept, [Other Assets].Co, [Other Assets].State, [Other Assets].[Fixed Assets] FROM [Other Assets] WHERE ((([Other Assets].Dept) In (SELECT [Dept] FROM [Other Assets] As Tmp GROUP BY [Dept] HAVING Count(*)>1 ))) ORDER BY [Other Assets].Dept; *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 15 09:33:09 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:33:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] finding duplicate records based on two fields Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337834@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Never mind, I figured it out Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:28 AM To: 'Accessd (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] finding duplicate records based on two fields I have a table with fixed assets by co and dept. I need to find the duplicates- ie records where co and dept are the same. Using the duplicate wizard I can construct the query to find duplicates where the dept is the same but I can't figure out the sql to find the records where two fields are the same. Any help will be appreciated. Below is the sql that finds dept duplicates TIA Jim Hale SELECT [Other Assets].Dept, [Other Assets].Co, [Other Assets].State, [Other Assets].[Fixed Assets] FROM [Other Assets] WHERE ((([Other Assets].Dept) In (SELECT [Dept] FROM [Other Assets] As Tmp GROUP BY [Dept] HAVING Count(*)>1 ))) ORDER BY [Other Assets].Dept; *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 15 10:20:03 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:20:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: I'm not familiar with the concept but it seems to me that you would have to keep updating and patching the code deposited in escrow or you would fail in the intent of the thing. What format would that "code" be and how would it be stored? I suppose that if you deposited a CD containing the native application you could keep giving them updated CDs, but who would be responsible for keeping track of which was which and how many generations would they hold? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Griffiths, Richard [mailto:R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:59 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Hi Group I have been asked about Source Code Escrow regarding a system I have written. My understanding is that I deposit the source with a third party and should my business fail or it fails to deliver support etc for the product the licensee can apply to have access/a copy of the source code to allow support/further development. Any one any experience here, pitfalls etc. Another question is what sort of fee (subscription) to charge the licensee - is there a rule of thumb, standard fees etc Cheers Richard -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 15 10:44:05 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:44:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview Message-ID: <000001c5ba0c$4e6ff0a0$0200a8c0@danwaters> I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? Dan Waters From mikedorism at verizon.net Thu Sep 15 10:54:04 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:54:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview In-Reply-To: <000001c5ba0c$4e6ff0a0$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <000601c5ba0d$b3c88010$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> If you open each report preview in dialog mode, the rest of the Do Loop will not execute until the currently previewed report is closed. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? Dan Waters -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 15 10:56:37 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:56:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow References: <200509151249.j8FCnSl25912@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Message-ID: <432999B5.9090807@shaw.ca> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or Canadian http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm Software escrow FAQ http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 other online companies DSI Technology Escrow www.dsiescrow.com InnovaSafe Escrow Service www.innovasafe.com I did this several years back and rolled my own but I had access to free legal advice (kid brother is lawyer) and a records management depository vault( a site designed to survive a level 10 earthquake). It is probably easier to find an escrow service in your area, that will be familar with legal requirements for your jurisdiction (this is the important point). Look for directions from an Intellectual Property lawyer, a quick phone call. They do this for manufacturing processes and a host of other reasons not just software. It also depends if you are depositing your source code and/or documentation. If you want to deposit upgrades on a regular basis for upgrades or just backup, some escrow companies will allow this via CD's or probably more costly electronic updates. Recovery times from vault could be as long as 10 days depending on agreement. Cost cheapest maybe $500 initially with $50 annual fee. You will probably have to decide between 2'nd or 3'd party agreements with whomever you arranging this with see FAQ. Griffiths, Richard wrote: >Hi Group > >I have been asked about Source Code Escrow regarding a system I have >written. My understanding is that I deposit the source with a third >party >and should my business fail or it fails to deliver support etc for the >product the licensee can apply to have access/a copy of the source code >to allow support/further development. > >Any one any experience here, pitfalls etc. Another question is what sort >of fee (subscription) to charge the licensee - is there a rule of thumb, >standard fees etc > >Cheers > >Richard > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KIsmert at texassystems.com Thu Sep 15 13:16:30 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:16:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: One thought that struck me, upon reading the Escrow Associates contract, is that this could put the developer at greater risk, particularly if the developer is a small company, and the customer is a large, powerful one. A large company, particularly if it is your primary (or only) customer, could force you into bankruptcy and take your code, if they wanted it badly enough. This isn't just paranoia: the author of the Pick OS/Database system was in this position with his first (and only at the time) customer, a large defense contractor. The company simply decided to stop paying him, with the intent of forcing him into insolvency and taking his product. Fortunately, he put a time-based activation code into Pick that they didn't know about, so in several months it stopped working, and they had to come back to him, hat in hand, asking for it to be turned back on. Now, imagine if this company had had a code escrow agreement. They could have simply waited him out, enduring the downtime, and walked away with the source at the end. Depending on who you are supplying software to under an escrow agreement, this might be a concern of yours. One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would have the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would greatly encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's ill-gotten gains, because the code would be public domain. Just a contrarian viewpoint. -Ken >> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or Canadian >> http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm >> Software escrow FAQ >> http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 From artful at rogers.com Thu Sep 15 13:20:40 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:20:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Really weird message that I cannot figure out Message-ID: <200509151820.j8FIKfT15758@databaseadvisors.com> Environment: w2k3 server, access 2k3 (all patches applied). I have an app called DSA_App_2005-09-15. I back it up daily, giving it today's name. I use static functions a lot. I have one called CurrentAssessID(). It is a get/set function which accepts an optional parameter, i.e. the following two lines show how it can be used: CurrentAssessID( 123 ) ' sets the value of CurrentAssessID CurrentAssessID() ' returns the current value of CurrentAssessID I have been doing this sort of code for years, and in this app for months. Everything used to work well, until two days ago. Now suddenly something is broken and I am mystified. The really weird part about this is the messages I get. First, a line that calls CurrentAssessID() gets busted saying "Invalid use of property". Next, I get a message to the effect that the library DSA_App_2005-09-15 is not referenced. This makes no sense to me. The library in question is the app, so how could it not reference itself? I have already tried creating a brand-new app and importing everything and compiling it. On compile, it works, but then in run-time it fails. I am mystified and baffled and desperate for suggestions, insights, or at least sympathy. Arthur From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Sep 15 13:33:54 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:33:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Really weird message that I cannot figure out Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Do you have another machine to run it on to see if it's something in your Office or Windows installation? I can run for you if you like. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Really weird message that I cannot figure out Environment: w2k3 server, access 2k3 (all patches applied). I have an app called DSA_App_2005-09-15. I back it up daily, giving it today's name. I use static functions a lot. I have one called CurrentAssessID(). It is a get/set function which accepts an optional parameter, i.e. the following two lines show how it can be used: CurrentAssessID( 123 ) ' sets the value of CurrentAssessID CurrentAssessID() ' returns the current value of CurrentAssessID I have been doing this sort of code for years, and in this app for months. Everything used to work well, until two days ago. Now suddenly something is broken and I am mystified. The really weird part about this is the messages I get. First, a line that calls CurrentAssessID() gets busted saying "Invalid use of property". Next, I get a message to the effect that the library DSA_App_2005-09-15 is not referenced. This makes no sense to me. The library in question is the app, so how could it not reference itself? I have already tried creating a brand-new app and importing everything and compiling it. On compile, it works, but then in run-time it fails. I am mystified and baffled and desperate for suggestions, insights, or at least sympathy. Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Sep 15 13:42:24 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:42:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow References: Message-ID: <001301c5ba25$37a1e400$0200a8c0@s1800> "> > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would have > the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would greatly > encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's ill-gotten > gains, because the code would be public domain. > " but this would not help in case the developers office burns down or the developer is run over by a truck. I understand these are the main arguments for source code escrow. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ismert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow > > One thought that struck me, upon reading the Escrow Associates contract, > is that this could put the developer at greater risk, particularly if > the developer is a small company, and the customer is a large, powerful > one. A large company, particularly if it is your primary (or only) > customer, could force you into bankruptcy and take your code, if they > wanted it badly enough. > > This isn't just paranoia: the author of the Pick OS/Database system was > in this position with his first (and only at the time) customer, a large > defense contractor. The company simply decided to stop paying him, with > the intent of forcing him into insolvency and taking his product. > Fortunately, he put a time-based activation code into Pick that they > didn't know about, so in several months it stopped working, and they had > to come back to him, hat in hand, asking for it to be turned back on. > > Now, imagine if this company had had a code escrow agreement. They could > have simply waited him out, enduring the downtime, and walked away with > the source at the end. > > Depending on who you are supplying software to under an escrow > agreement, this might be a concern of yours. > > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would have > the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would greatly > encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's ill-gotten > gains, because the code would be public domain. > > Just a contrarian viewpoint. > > -Ken > > >>> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or > Canadian >>> http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm >>> Software escrow FAQ >>> http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 15 14:22:38 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:22:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview In-Reply-To: <17656743.1126799951958.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000001c5ba2a$d5bcf350$0200a8c0@danwaters> Thanks Doris! Now if I can just clear the fuzz out of my brain!#! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview If you open each report preview in dialog mode, the rest of the Do Loop will not execute until the currently previewed report is closed. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? Dan Waters -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at texassystems.com Thu Sep 15 18:01:46 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:01:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: >> Do tell, Do tell OK, OK. A sample database is available. See below. ================= AutoFilter Basics ================= I call this solution the AutoFilter. AutoFilter doesn't build custom SQL statements on the fly. Instead, it uses a standard query with a fixed WHERE clause. This query allows you to return all rows, or restrict the results to any combination of field values that you have elected to filter on. Even though the WHERE clause is more complex than the custom one you would build in code, it often queries significantly faster than a form using custom SQL. This is because the query is pre-parsed, and only needs to be initialized once, when the form loads. Custom SQL must be parsed and initialized every time you change it. Because the magic all happens in the query, no form-level filter string is needed, either. Depending on how you implement it, you can even allow the user to use the built-in Access Form Filter functions, on top of the current AutoFilter. You can put the filter controls and the query results on a single form. I usually put the filter controls in a parent form, and move the results to a sub form. If your filter needs are simple (just a few filter fields), you can get away with two lines of code to implement. I usually add a Clear Filter function, which resets all the controls to Null, adding a few extra lines of code. Implementing the Form Filter on top of AutoFilter capability requires significantly more support code, with a small setup stub in the parent form. ===================== The Filter Expression ===================== All right, but how does it _work_? AutoFilter relies on a simple convention: for a given field, Null returns all rows, and a Value returns only rows matching that field value. This makes it easy to use: select a value from a combobox, and it restricts to that value. Delete the value, and it returns all rows. The trick is how this convention is encoded in the WHERE clause. Remember that annoying property of Nulls -- how if any part of an expression is Null, the whole expression becomes Null? Well, this WHERE clause leverages that behavior. Specifically: (Field = Null) returns Null (always) (Field = Value) returns True or False (depending on match) All you have to do is wrap this in a Nz() function, and you have the basic form: Nz((Field = FilterValue), True) = True This table shows how this expression works: FilterValue Null 3 0 =========================================== Field | 1 | True false false Value | 2 | True false false | 3 | True True false | 4 | True false false You can see how Null matches all rows, and values match any rows whose field contains that value. For an actual control filtering an actual field, the expression becomes: Nz(([MyTable].[Field] = [Forms]![frmFilter]![cboField]), True) = True Here, the current value of cboField filters matching values of MyTable.Field. String multiple filter expressions together with ANDs, and you have a WHERE clause that can filter any number of fields simultaneously. How many, do you ask? I've gone up to about 8 or 9, with little noticeable degradation in query speed. ========== An Example ========== So, how is AutoFilter typically used? The classic case is filtering a Primary table with a number of Foreign key fields: tblOrders tblCustomers (CustomerID) tblItems (ItemID) tblSuppliers (SupplierID) This data is ideal, because the fields being filtered on are Primary Keys, and therefore can't be Null. AutoFilter can work on fields containing Nulls, but you have to build a slightly more complex filter expression to handle that case. Building The Query ------------------ First, build a Result query that includes tblOrders, joined to tblCustomers, tblItems, and tblSuppliers. Include the key fields you are going to filter on, CustomerID, ItemID, and SupplierID. Include enough fields to identify both the primary and foreign tables to the user. Save it as qryFilterOrdersSub. Don't worry about the WHERE clause; we will add it later. Building The Forms ------------------ Build a Result subform, frmFilterOrdersSub. Set it to continuous forms or datasheet view. Assign its RecordSource to qryFilterOrdersSub. Finish by inserting the desired fields from the query, and arranging them so suit your needs. Save the form. For fastest performance, do not use comboboxes. The form should have Allow Filters, Edits, Deletions, and Additions set to No. Save the subform. Next, create your Filter form, frmFilterOrders. Insert a subform control, subFilterOrders, that holds frmFilterOrdersSub. In the frmFilterOrders' module, insert this code: Property Get RequeryMe() As Boolean subFilterOrders.Requery RequeryMe = True End Property Add three combo boxes: cboCustomerID, cboItemID, and cboSupplierID. These simply query their respective tables, and are bound to their respective key fields, CustomerID, ItemID, and SupplierID. In the Combo Box properties dialog for each of your combos, insert this expression in the After Update property: =[RequeryMe] This calls the property RequeryMe, without having to build an event handling routine. Save the form. Finishing The Query ------------------- Re-open qryFilterOrdersSub. Add this WHERE clause to the query: (Nz(([tblCustomers].[CustomerID] = [Forms]![frmFilterOrders]![cboCustomerID]), True) = True) AND (Nz(([tblItems].[ItemID] = [Forms]![frmFilterOrders]![cboItemID]), True) = True) AND (Nz(([tblSuppliers].[SupplierID] = [Forms]![frmFilterOrders]![cboSupplierID]), True) = True) Save the query. You are now finished. Looking At The Results ---------------------- Open the AutoFilter form. The results subform should show all rows, since the initial values of the filter combos are Null. Select a value from one of the combos. The subform should requery, returning only matching rows. Delete the value of the combo, and observe that the restriction drops off. You can easily filter any combination of values. Notes ----- * You can't do Form Filtering on this Result form. I got weird behavior when I tried it. If you can get this to work, I'd like to know how you did it. * I use AutoFilter forms for lookup only -- no adding or editing data. For that, I use a stand-alone form keyed to the selected record in the AutoFilter form. ================ Sample Available ================ I have a sample database that implements the simple form of AutoFilter (no user Form Filter). Contact me off-list for a copy (Rich, yours will be on the way tonight). I'm working up the coding for the more sophisticated form, too. Let me know if you're interested. In return for sharing, all I ask is that my fellow list members not publish this idea first. If you can't tell already, I'm thinking of writing this up as an article. -Ken From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 19:53:34 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:53:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text Message-ID: does anyone have a routine that will do the following: SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE SOME MORE ENTERED HERE AGAIN it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea is to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting here in case someone has ran into this situation before... Thanks :) -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 20:28:08 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:28:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15/09/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > does anyone have a routine that will do the following: > > SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE > SOME MORE ENTERED HERE > AGAIN > > it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea is > to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the > middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it > ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting here in > case someone has ran into this situation before... Francisco, Here is a function that I wrote to limit line length to 80 characters for a Word template. You will notice that in the code it limits to 68, that is because of a line leader that gets inserted. It will also not split text in quotes, but will move it down to the next line if it can. It may be a good starting point. Private Function fMax80(strIn As String, strLeader As String) As String '-------------------------------------------------------------------------- '.Purpose : To Keep output Line Lengths to 80 charachters '.Author : Bryan Carbonnell '.Date : 28-Aug-2002 '.Called by : sExportToWord '.Inputs : strIn - String - Incoming string to Check '.Output : fMax80 - String - Return string limit to 80 characters '.Revised : 28-Aug-2002 - Original '-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Const cstrProcName As String = "fMax80" Dim lngPos As Long Dim strTemp As String Dim lngLen As Long Dim lngLoop As Long Dim bolInQuote As Boolean If Len(strIn) > 68 Then strTemp = Left$(strIn, 67) 'Check for quotes If InStr(strTemp, """") > 0 Then 'There is at least one quote so we have to break the line logically For lngLoop = 1 To 67 If Mid(strTemp, lngLoop, 1) = """" Then 'We have hit a quote mark, so we need to flip bolInQuote bolInQuote = Not bolInQuote End If Next 'Are we inside a quote If bolInQuote = True Then 'we are inside a quote, so we need to go back to before the quote Do While (InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, """") > 0) 'Loop to find the last " mark lngPos = InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, """") Loop 'Get upto last " strTemp = Left$(strTemp, lngPos - 1) & "_" & vbCrLf 'Add leader and check the remainder is not too large strTemp = strTemp & strLeader & fMax80(" " & Mid$(strIn, lngPos), strLeader) Else ' We can just break the line at a space Do While (InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") > 0) 'loop to find last space lngPos = InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") Loop 'Get upto last space strTemp = Left$(strTemp, lngPos) & "_" & vbCrLf 'Add leader and check the remainder is not too large strTemp = strTemp & strLeader & fMax80(" " & Right(strIn, Len(strIn) - lngPos), strLeader) End If Else ' We can just break the line at a space Do While (InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") > 0) 'loop to find last space lngPos = InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") Loop 'Get upto last space strTemp = Left$(strTemp, lngPos) & "_" & vbCrLf 'Add leader and check the remainder is not too large strTemp = strTemp & strLeader & fMax80(" " & Right(strIn, Len(strIn) - lngPos), strLeader) End If fMax80 = strTemp Else 'Line less than 80 characters, so nothing needs to be done fMax80 = strIn End If End Function It gets called like this: Debug.print fMax80(strInputText, strLeader) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 15 21:22:10 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:22:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <432AB8F2.1945.19B30EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 15 Sep 2005 at 17:53, Francisco Tapia wrote: > does anyone have a routine that will do the following: > > SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE > SOME MORE ENTERED HERE > AGAIN > > it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea is > to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the > middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it > ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting here in > case someone has ran into this situation before... > Heres a simple wordwrap function. Note that it only wraps on spaces. If a "word" (which may be any string of characters not including a space) is longer that MaxChars, it will not be split. Function WordWrap(InputString As String, MaxChars As Long) As String Dim lngPointer As Long Dim lngLoopCount As Long Dim lngLastPointer As Long Dim lngLastSpace As Long For lngLoopCount = 1 To Len(InputString) lngPointer = lngPointer + 1 If Mid(InputString, lngLoopCount, 1) = " " Then lngLastSpace = lngLoopCount lngLastPointer = lngPointer End If If lngPointer > MaxChars And lngLastPointer <> 0 Then Mid(InputString, lngLastSpace, 1) = Chr$(10) lngPointer = MaxChars - lngLastPointer + 1 End If Next WordWrap = Replace(InputString, Chr$(10), vbCrLf) End Function -- Stuart From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Sep 16 03:48:01 2005 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:48:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: <200509160838.j8G8cUl05540@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Thanks for all your contributions. In my case the organisation is Local Government - I don't expect them to exploit their position, simply they are looking to a way of ensuring that if my company went under they could still use and maintain the application. The other thing I have come across is one org that offers escrow services (www.componentsource.com) does not charge for the setup and maintenance of the code - in addition a subscription is taken out by the licensee per year for this service - and this is split between componentsource and the software seller (me!) - seems like a reasonable situation. Richard -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: 15 September 2005 19:42 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow "> > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would > have the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would > greatly encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's > ill-gotten gains, because the code would be public domain. " but this would not help in case the developers office burns down or the developer is run over by a truck. I understand these are the main arguments for source code escrow. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ismert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow > > One thought that struck me, upon reading the Escrow Associates > contract, is that this could put the developer at greater risk, > particularly if the developer is a small company, and the customer is > a large, powerful one. A large company, particularly if it is your > primary (or only) customer, could force you into bankruptcy and take > your code, if they wanted it badly enough. > > This isn't just paranoia: the author of the Pick OS/Database system > was in this position with his first (and only at the time) customer, a > large defense contractor. The company simply decided to stop paying > him, with the intent of forcing him into insolvency and taking his > product. Fortunately, he put a time-based activation code into Pick > that they didn't know about, so in several months it stopped working, > and they had to come back to him, hat in hand, asking for it to be > turned back on. > > Now, imagine if this company had had a code escrow agreement. They > could have simply waited him out, enduring the downtime, and walked > away with the source at the end. > > Depending on who you are supplying software to under an escrow > agreement, this might be a concern of yours. > > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would > have the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would > greatly encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's > ill-gotten gains, because the code would be public domain. > > Just a contrarian viewpoint. > > -Ken > > >>> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or > Canadian >>> http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm >>> Software escrow FAQ >>> http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 16 04:13:06 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:13:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview Message-ID: Hi Dan Only if you use Access 2002/XP or higher ... /gustav >>> dwaters at usinternet.com 15-09-2005 21:22 >>> Thanks Doris! Now if I can just clear the fuzz out of my brain!#! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview If you open each report preview in dialog mode, the rest of the Do Loop will not execute until the currently previewed report is closed. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Sep 16 06:33:45 2005 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:33:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A97 to SQL2000 Message-ID: <200509161124.j8GBOEl22440@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Hi Group I have been given the task of moving A97 tables to SQL2000. The app was written by a user and so has little vba code (recordset processing etc). Is it as simple as importing data to SQL and setting up an ODBC DSN then reattaching the tables. I have tested on one or two tables and this appears to work okay. Are there known problems with this approach? Richard From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 16 09:19:08 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:19:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text In-Reply-To: <432AB8F2.1945.19B30EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <432AB8F2.1945.19B30EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You guys are AWESOME On 9/15/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > On 15 Sep 2005 at 17:53, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > does anyone have a routine that will do the following: > > > > SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE > > SOME MORE ENTERED HERE > > AGAIN > > > > it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea > is > > to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the > > middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it > > ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting > here in > > case someone has ran into this situation before... > > > > Heres a simple wordwrap function. > Note that it only wraps on spaces. If a "word" (which may be any string of > characters not including a space) is longer that MaxChars, it will not be > split. > > Function WordWrap(InputString As String, MaxChars As Long) As String > Dim lngPointer As Long > Dim lngLoopCount As Long > Dim lngLastPointer As Long > Dim lngLastSpace As Long > > For lngLoopCount = 1 To Len(InputString) > lngPointer = lngPointer + 1 > If Mid(InputString, lngLoopCount, 1) = " " Then > lngLastSpace = lngLoopCount > lngLastPointer = lngPointer > End If > If lngPointer > MaxChars And lngLastPointer <> 0 Then > Mid(InputString, lngLastSpace, 1) = Chr$(10) > lngPointer = MaxChars - lngLastPointer + 1 > End If > Next > WordWrap = Replace(InputString, Chr$(10), vbCrLf) > End Function > > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 16 10:22:35 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:22:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 16 10:26:37 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:26:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 to SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <200509161124.j8GBOEl22440@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Message-ID: <0IMX00G8G1KARE@l-daemon> Hi Richard: It is not difficult to move the tables up to a SQL server using SQLs import tools 'Action/All tasks/Import'. That is the easy part. If the previous designer has made a botch of the tables you have normalize then from there. The next hurdle is moving or more accurately replacing the queries by migrating and re-building them in Stored Procedures. Next the big process. That is where you build a middle tier in your new version of access that connects to the SQL server. My recommendation is to use ADO-OLE but if time and money are issues much of the work can be done through an ODBC connection... but there are some inherent issues with this method; performance is one. This process is a big one and it will require a length of time. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Richard Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:34 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A97 to SQL2000 Hi Group I have been given the task of moving A97 tables to SQL2000. The app was written by a user and so has little vba code (recordset processing etc). Is it as simple as importing data to SQL and setting up an ODBC DSN then reattaching the tables. I have tested on one or two tables and this appears to work okay. Are there known problems with this approach? Richard -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Susan.Klos at fldoe.org Fri Sep 16 10:49:26 2005 From: Susan.Klos at fldoe.org (Klos, Susan) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:49:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range Message-ID: I have actually been able to find the weekdays. However, I need to set some parameters and I can't seem to do that. I borrowed the following code from someone's web site. It works perfectly for some of what I need. Public Function WorkingDays(StartDate As Date, EndDate As Date) As Integer '.................................................................... ' Name: WorkingDays ' Inputs: StartDate As Date ' EndDate As Date ' Returns: Integer ' Author: Arvin Meyer ' Date: February 19, 1997 ' Comment: Accepts two dates and returns the number of weekdays between them ' Note that this function does not account for holidays. '.................................................................... On Error GoTo Err_WorkingDays Dim intCount As Integer 'StartDate = StartDate + 1 'If you want to count the day of StartDate as the 1st day 'Comment out the line above intCount = 0 Do While StartDate <= EndDate 'Make the above < and not <= to not count the EndDate Select Case Weekday(StartDate) Case Is = 1, 7 intCount = intCount Case Is = 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 intCount = intCount + 1 End Select StartDate = StartDate + 1 Loop WorkingDays = intCount Exit_WorkingDays: Exit Function Err_WorkingDays: Select Case Err Case Else MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_WorkingDays End Select End Function I need to be able to modify this to find the weekdays under the following criteria 1) if the inServiceBegin is after FCATWeek (a single date) then exit the function. 2) if the inServiceBegin is before SchoolStart (a single date) then use SchoolStart and the startdate. 3) if the inServiceEnd is after FCATWeek then use FCATWeek as the enddate. 4) if the inServiceBegin is not null but the inServiceEnd is null (inservice is only one day long) then 1. 5) if the inServiceBegin and inServiceEnd are before SchoolStart then exit the function. I think I have considered all the possibilities. I am trying to calculate how many weekdays fall within the range of inservice days and these must fall on or after the start of school and on or before the students take the test (FCATWeek). I can use whatever help you can give me. Thanks. Susan Klos Senior Database Analyst Evaluation and Reporting Florida Department of Education 850-245-0708 sc 205-0708 From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 16 11:09:17 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:09:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E16@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 16 11:17:38 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:17:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: LOL I'm glad someone else is equally disenchanted with that sort of pasttime! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 16 11:20:44 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:20:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E17@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Although it's probably a cut above whatever to do list my wife has planned for my weekend!!! Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment LOL I'm glad someone else is equally disenchanted with that sort of pasttime! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 16 11:21:25 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:21:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004e01c5bada$af8a23f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Indeed. My server has decided to die. Next. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment LOL I'm glad someone else is equally disenchanted with that sort of pasttime! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Fri Sep 16 12:09:56 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:09:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor Message-ID: <000601c5bae1$7b1db6c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> What happens when you leave your computer? To find out, visit http://www.justracin.net/is.swf Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Sep 16 12:20:17 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:20:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: 2 = 13112221 correct? I think I did one similar to this years back. If so, it would then be followed by 1113213211 John W. Clark >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 9/16/2005 11:22 AM >>> Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 16 12:28:31 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:28:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Error 3343 When I install Backend on server References: <40F80AD8.18919.6D50350@lexacorp.com.pg> <005401cb255b$d1b7dad0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <432B00BF.8010906@shaw.ca> This is really wild guess but could your mdb have an associated ADS file, that will be copied along with your main file on NTFS to NTFS file transfer, I have seen DocumentSummaryInfo ADS files attached to mdb's This ADS might be held open by someone else or another program. I have noticed popup windows concerning these little critters when copying hundreds of mdb's to another hard drive recently. Saying something like this documentinfo ADS will be lost. A quick way to strip these ADS is to copy the file to a FAT disk like a CD. Then copy from the CD to the server. I'll assume the .ldb file on the server is deleted. The Dark Side of NTFS http://www.infosecwriters.com/texts.php?op=display&id=53 ADS FAQ http://www.heysoft.de/Frames/f_faq_ads_en.htm Darren DICK wrote: >Thanks Stuart >I'll have to look deeper into this. >It is without question a server side issue and perhaps a permissions issue > >Many thanks > >Darren > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" >Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 5:05 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Error 3343 When I install Backend on server > > > > >>On 16 Jul 2004 at 12:46, Darren DICK wrote: >> >> >> >>>HI Stuart >>>Thanks for this >>>I have read and re-read the blurb from M$ >>>I still don't get it. >>>I have set the permissions on the TEMP folder on my DEV machine to >>>anyone can do anything they like from anywhere withany logon :-)) >>>Compiled - decompiled and compacted and repaired the DEV version of the >>>back end whilst it was on my DEV machine >>> >>>Then I copy this local DEV version of the BE to the server - drop it into >>>the expected place then try and perform some tasks and now I get >>>Error 3260 "Could Not Update; currently locked by user '(unknown)' on machine " >>>It isn't locked at all - like I said I have admin permission on the server. No-one else is looking at >>>that file at all. >>>The KB section of MS was useless. >>>Any suggestions?? >>>I'm starting to get desperate this will halt the deployment of the app due this Monday >>> >>> >>> >>I'd say it's definitely a rights thing. You need to look at the Share >>permissions as well as direct access rights to find out who can really do what >>on a file. Do you have Admin rights through the Share you are using? >> >> >>-- >>Lexacorp Ltd >>http://www.lexacorp.com.pg >>Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 16 12:47:24 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:47:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050916174725.PLSL20379.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You're one sick puppy... ;) Susan H. Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Fri Sep 16 13:00:03 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:00:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor References: <000601c5bae1$7b1db6c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: ..that was worth the visit! :))))) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor > What happens when you leave your computer? To find out, visit > http://www.justracin.net/is.swf > > > > Doris Manning > > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 16 14:01:12 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:01:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory App Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E1E@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> List, We're looking for a small inventory management system to replace our home grown system that tracks office supplies, pcs, and other equipment that is stored and/or deployed at various office locations in our 6 county market area. Can anyone recommend anything to me? We're a small (250+ employee) company so I don't need anything huge. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director of Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Sep 16 14:09:02 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:09:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory App Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337841@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Take a look at www. fredrickgroup.com their inventory system may fit your needs. Best of all it is based on an mdb that is open so you can adopt their structure but create your own forms as required. Also, it is modular. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:01 PM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Inventory App List, We're looking for a small inventory management system to replace our home grown system that tracks office supplies, pcs, and other equipment that is stored and/or deployed at various office locations in our 6 county market area. Can anyone recommend anything to me? We're a small (250+ employee) company so I don't need anything huge. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director of Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Sep 16 15:44:19 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:44:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16 Sep 2005 at 14:00, William Hindman wrote: > ..that was worth the visit! :))))) And then some. Thanks for the laugh Doris. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected. From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Sep 16 17:19:30 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:19:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Message-ID: <01f601c5bb0c$b5370250$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If Me.Requery End Sub MTIA, Rocky From nd500_lo at charter.net Fri Sep 16 17:54:58 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:54:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor In-Reply-To: <000601c5bae1$7b1db6c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <48rlb4$mne28c@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> That was a great way to start the weekend! Thanks, Doris -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor What happens when you leave your computer? To find out, visit http://www.justracin.net/is.swf Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 16 18:12:05 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:12:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Message-ID: Try: Me.FilterOn = False Me.Filter = strFilter Me.Filteron = True You can't change a filter when FilterOn is true Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 3:20 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Dear List: Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If Me.Requery End Sub MTIA, Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 16 19:01:19 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:01:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I need help Message-ID: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From karenr7 at oz.net Fri Sep 16 20:22:43 2005 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:22:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509170122.j8H1MfT00948@databaseadvisors.com> John, Rabbi Gellman's idea seems like a good and doable one. I could help with designing the web site. I have FrontPage 2003 and Macromedia Dreamweaver, Flash etc., although I usually design by hand with a text editor. Also have various graphics programs. I don't have a web server myself to host it, but Yahoo actually has some pretty good packages with free domain registration and multiple mailboxes. Or maybe Database Advisors or some member thereof could host ???? I assume the database part would be a typical address/mass mailer type database, no? I can certainly do one like that, but am probably only intermediate in my database skills -- YOU are one of the database gods. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 5:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] I need help Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Sep 16 20:40:56 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:40:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter References: Message-ID: <025201c5bb28$d9190a30$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Charlotte: Changed code to: If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.FilterOn = False Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If but no soap. :( I've never had a problem pushing a filter string into a form. The filter might have been invalid or had bad syntax but I never got stopped at the door before. Regards, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > Try: > > Me.FilterOn = False > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.Filteron = True > > You can't change a filter when FilterOn is true > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 3:20 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > > > Dear List: > > Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - > you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = > strFilter? > > Private Sub SetFilter() > > Dim strFilter As String > > strFilter = "" > If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & > txtDateFilterStart & "#" > End If > > If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then > If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & > txtDateFilterEnd & "#" > End If > > If strFilter = "" Then > Me.Filter = "" > Me.FilterOn = False > Else > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.FilterOn = True > End If > > Me.Requery > > End Sub > > > MTIA, > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 17 01:03:03 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:33:03 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter References: <01f601c5bb0c$b5370250$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <00a701c5bb4d$90aefc30$181865cb@winxp> Rocky, Modified code given below, should work smoothly. Basically, there was nothing wrong with your original code. The real culprit was found to be use of =< instead of >= , while building up second part of filter string. Some interesting features relevant to programmatic manipulation of filtering on forms are mentioned below. (a) Order of placement of Me.FilterOn statement with respect to Me.Filter statement does not matter. (b) Whenever statement Me.Filter = "" is used, FilterOn property of the form gets automatically set to False. (c) You don't have to use Me.Requery explicitly. It is redundant. Application of any fresh filter condition, takes care of requery as well. Last block of your existing code has been simplified accordingly. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & _ txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate <= #" & _ txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If Me.Filter = "" If Len(strFilter) > 0 Then Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If End Sub =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 03:49 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Dear List: Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If Me.Requery End Sub MTIA, Rocky From spikee at oatlandspark.org.uk Sat Sep 17 02:44:36 2005 From: spikee at oatlandspark.org.uk (Chris Foote (Spike)) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:44:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <200509170122.j8H1MfT00948@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Count me in John! Like Karen I have web site skills, although they are a bit more "mandraulic" than Karen's - I hand-code in a text editor. I'm pretty good at usability and cross-browser stuff. I do have my own "virtual" web server, but have not got a lot of spare capacity ATM. If there's anything I can do from England, do let me know at spike at ugandanetwork.org.uk. Best regards Chris Foote -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Karen Rosenstiel Sent: 17 September 2005 02:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I need help John, Rabbi Gellman's idea seems like a good and doable one. I could help with designing the web site. I have FrontPage 2003 and Macromedia Dreamweaver, Flash etc., although I usually design by hand with a text editor. Also have various graphics programs. I don't have a web server myself to host it, but Yahoo actually has some pretty good packages with free domain registration and multiple mailboxes. Or maybe Database Advisors or some member thereof could host ???? I assume the database part would be a typical address/mass mailer type database, no? I can certainly do one like that, but am probably only intermediate in my database skills -- YOU are one of the database gods. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 5:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] I need help Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 17 08:40:34 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:40:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter References: <01f601c5bb0c$b5370250$6501a8c0@HAL9004> <00a701c5bb4d$90aefc30$181865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <002a01c5bb8d$6199cf20$6501a8c0@HAL9004> A.D.: Thank you. I am once again in your debt. Don't think I would have ever spotted that <= problem. So the message "you can't assign a value to this object" was misleading. It should actually have read "You have made another dumb syntax error in your filter string". Have to talk to Bill about that. With best regards, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > Rocky, > > Modified code given below, should work smoothly. Basically, there was > nothing wrong with your original code. The real culprit was found to be > use of =< instead of >= , while building up second part of filter string. > > Some interesting features relevant to programmatic manipulation of > filtering on forms are mentioned below. > (a) Order of placement of Me.FilterOn statement with respect to > Me.Filter statement does not matter. > (b) Whenever statement Me.Filter = "" is used, FilterOn property of the > form gets automatically set to False. > (c) You don't have to use Me.Requery explicitly. It is redundant. > Application of any fresh filter condition, takes care of requery as well. > > Last block of your existing code has been simplified accordingly. > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > =================================== > Private Sub SetFilter() > Dim strFilter As String > > strFilter = "" > If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & _ > txtDateFilterStart & "#" > End If > > If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then > If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate <= #" & _ > txtDateFilterEnd & "#" > End If > > Me.Filter = "" > If Len(strFilter) > 0 Then > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.FilterOn = True > End If > End Sub > =================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 03:49 > Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > > > Dear List: > > Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - > you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? > > Private Sub SetFilter() > > Dim strFilter As String > > strFilter = "" > If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & > txtDateFilterStart & "#" > End If > > If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then > If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & > txtDateFilterEnd & "#" > End If > > If strFilter = "" Then > Me.Filter = "" > Me.FilterOn = False > Else > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.FilterOn = True > End If > > Me.Requery > > End Sub > > > MTIA, > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Sep 17 10:31:54 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:31:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I need help References: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <432C36EA.8070504@torchlake.com> John, This very idea is starting to happen in individual congregations - I know of a small church just about the size of mine that is already "adopting" a family, and I was intending to propose it to my own. So, I am very willing to offer whatever help and skills I have that would contribute to the project. The first two responses you received offered web-page design skills that are at a higher level than mine (although I am certainaly willing to offer mine as well). I am reasonably good with Access, although I agree with Karen that you are one of the Access gods. I have lots of word processing and data entry experience. I'm very good on the telephone. And, I can write. Please count me in, and use me wherever you need me. Best regards and blessings, Tina John W. Colby wrote: >Guys, > >I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database >behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in >implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ > >I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him >assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will >be talking to him shortly. > >I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know >what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know >more. > >Thanks > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > From mikedorism at verizon.net Sat Sep 17 12:31:54 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:31:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5bbad$b35510c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Let me know if there is anything I can do to help on the database end. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From kathryn at bassett.net Sat Sep 17 14:06:48 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 12:06:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] From the AC100 Finish Line Message-ID: <20050917120655.55D99C40@dm16.mta.everyone.net> Hi all! Seems like every year at this time, I've had to put out a frantic plea for help because my race database broke at the last minute. This year, things are going great! I'm not having to use my Access db except as a backup. The guy who wrote the program for the checkpoints to communicate via ham radio to the net control, has tweaked his program to be able to upload to the web server. So, all I had to do was tweak the web pages to include the uploaded data. Hooray! Means I can get some breaks and don't have to be under the stress of past years. And best of all, it's getting updated every five minutes. Check it out - the "last seen" is condensed for me to print out here at the finish line so that the people here can keep track of their runner: http://ac100.com/finish/lastseen.shtml And if you click on either of the Splits menu, you can see the entire list with all the checkpoint times. So, even though I'm not using my program anymore (except as the backup I mentioned), it's been a wonder experience through the years with "you all" helping me tweak it. -- Kathryn Bassett (Pasadena CA) kathryn at bassett.net http://www.ac100.com/finish/ Personal site - http://bassett.net From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Sun Sep 18 09:27:41 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:27:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20050914000851.54734.qmail@web80821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200509181428.j8IESFT10655@databaseadvisors.com> Brilliant Thnaks David Just What I needed Darren TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2005 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server Access ADP: File -> Connection Enter Server Name Select Login info (username / password) Select database MDB: In the Access MDI window, click on tables Right click in any white area -> Choose link tables Change "Files of Type" to ODBC Databases Select your datasource* * IF your datasource has not been created: Click on Machine Data Source tab Click on New Choose your datasource type (lets use System Data Source) Click Next, scroll to bottom and choose SQL Server Click Finish (even though you're not) Name the DataSource (so you can find it the next time you link tables) "DarrensSQLConnection" (or something more meaningful) Give it a description (usually just copy the line above) Select the server Click Next Select Login type / Fill in Uname & PW Click Next Check box that reads: Change the default databse to: Select DB Click Next Click Finish (you're still not finished) Test connection, if good click OK Now you are back where we left off before creating the Datasource Enter Login ID and password Press OK Select your tables (but dont press OK) click on Save password (many forget to do this) Now press OK. Hope this helps. David McAfee --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to connect an Acces DB > (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kimjwiggins at yahoo.com Sun Sep 18 16:18:05 2005 From: kimjwiggins at yahoo.com (Kim Wiggins) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050918211805.41918.qmail@web53609.mail.yahoo.com> I monitor this list just to keep abreast of all the wonderful things you guys are doing here. I can offer some web design with FrontPage and database. Of course, my database experience is nothing near what yours is but I can help. Also like someone else mentioned, I can do word processing, data entry and write letters. I have excellent writing skills. Let me know where I can assist because I have been looking for some way to be help more outside of giving money. Kim "John W. Colby" wrote: Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. From artful at rogers.com Mon Sep 19 01:00:11 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:00:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509190600.j8J609T20622@databaseadvisors.com> This code may work for some specific country, but woe to the person who must internationalize it! There is no shortcut to the solution (IMO) other than creating a Holidays table and entering therein the holidays that are particular to your nation, or the user's nation, should you happen to have transnational marketing ambitions. July 1 in Canada is important, and July 4 in USA is important. Neither nation considers the other date important. We (in Canada) regard July 4 as just another working, lest it fall upon a Saturday or Sunday, and the converse holds in the USA regarding July 1. Further, and again this comes from a Canadian perspective, there are holidays in various provinces that are not recognized as such in other provinces, so even if your market is Canada-only, you have to graduate beyond this algorithm. Suppose you have a table called Holidays. Then you take the Start and Stop days and count the Holidays between (noting those occasions when a holiday happens to fall on a Saturday or Sunday. Then you can apply the rest of the logic. But even then, who is to say that Saturday and Sunday are not working days? I can go to many stores on both days and find them open. And for some reason that I have never nailed down, numerous East Indian restaurants in this 'hood close on Mondays. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Klos, Susan Sent: September 16, 2005 11:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range I have actually been able to find the weekdays. However, I need to set some parameters and I can't seem to do that. I borrowed the following code from someone's web site. It works perfectly for some of what I need. Public Function WorkingDays(StartDate As Date, EndDate As Date) As Integer '.................................................................... ' Name: WorkingDays ' Inputs: StartDate As Date ' EndDate As Date ' Returns: Integer ' Author: Arvin Meyer ' Date: February 19, 1997 ' Comment: Accepts two dates and returns the number of weekdays between them ' Note that this function does not account for holidays. '.................................................................... On Error GoTo Err_WorkingDays Dim intCount As Integer 'StartDate = StartDate + 1 'If you want to count the day of StartDate as the 1st day 'Comment out the line above intCount = 0 Do While StartDate <= EndDate 'Make the above < and not <= to not count the EndDate Select Case Weekday(StartDate) Case Is = 1, 7 intCount = intCount Case Is = 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 intCount = intCount + 1 End Select StartDate = StartDate + 1 Loop WorkingDays = intCount Exit_WorkingDays: Exit Function Err_WorkingDays: Select Case Err Case Else MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_WorkingDays End Select End Function I need to be able to modify this to find the weekdays under the following criteria 1) if the inServiceBegin is after FCATWeek (a single date) then exit the function. 2) if the inServiceBegin is before SchoolStart (a single date) then use SchoolStart and the startdate. 3) if the inServiceEnd is after FCATWeek then use FCATWeek as the enddate. 4) if the inServiceBegin is not null but the inServiceEnd is null (inservice is only one day long) then 1. 5) if the inServiceBegin and inServiceEnd are before SchoolStart then exit the function. I think I have considered all the possibilities. I am trying to calculate how many weekdays fall within the range of inservice days and these must fall on or after the start of school and on or before the students take the test (FCATWeek). I can use whatever help you can give me. Thanks. Susan Klos Senior Database Analyst Evaluation and Reporting Florida Department of Education 850-245-0708 sc 205-0708 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Sep 19 02:18:59 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:18:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question Message-ID: <001001c5bcea$e0d45c70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Hi All, Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that CustomerID is used for rows ordering: SELECT * FROM (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM (SELECT TOP 50 * FROM Customers ORDER BY CustomerID) ORDER BY CustomerID DESC) ORDER BY CustomerID It works in MS Access 2000/XP/2003. Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar simple queries (with additional central nested query with WHERE expression of course) when end-user moves between pages of selected search results? Or they use saved search rows' IDs because with dynamic requery as in the query above search results may change and because they allow to search within results of the previous search? My humble guess they use this simple and very well scalable solution. What is your opinion? Thank you, Shamil P.S. Credits to: http://www.richardxin.com/SQLPaging.aspx From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 19 05:45:21 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:45:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range In-Reply-To: <200509190600.j8J609T20622@databaseadvisors.com> References: Message-ID: <432F2361.13895.1241E0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 19 Sep 2005 at 2:00, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This code may work for some specific country, but woe to the person who must > internationalize it! .... > logic. But even then, who is to say that Saturday and Sunday are not working > days? I can go to many stores on both days and find them open. And for some > reason that I have never nailed down, numerous East Indian restaurants in > this 'hood close on Mondays. > That's very common world wide, because Monday tends to be the quietest day of the week for people to "eat out", Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights are often the busiest of the week in the restaurant trade. Also, in many muslim countries Friday is the main religious day of rest/worship and the working week is Sunday to Thursday. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 19 06:00:57 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:00:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Question In-Reply-To: <001001c5bcea$e0d45c70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <432F2709.13744.132662B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 19 Sep 2005 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi All, > > Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that > CustomerID is used for rows ordering: > .... > > Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar > simple queries Repeat of my posting to this list on 7 May 2005: On 6 May 2005 at 10:43, Joe Rojas wrote: > Hi All, > > How do sites like eBay show only X number of items at a time and allow users to jump to a page number or click next? > > Is there a SQL statement that allows you to select the 2nd > (3rd,4th,5th,...)set of X number of records in a database? > If they are using MySQL they will be using the LIMIT command The LIMIT clause can be used to constrain the number of rows returned by the SELECT statement. LIMIT takes one or two numeric arguments, which must be integer constants. With two arguments, the first argument specifies the offset of the first row to return, and the second specifies the maximum number of rows to return. The offset of the initial row is 0 (not 1): mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 -- Stuart From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 19 08:25:12 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Message-ID: The following code generates a type mismatch error when the table tries to open. I am not seeing a problem since the code ran in another DB. References are set for VB for Applications, MS Access 11.0 Object Library, OLE Automation, Microsoft DAO 3.6 Object Library and Microsoft Active X Data Objects 2.1 library. tbl Wells to Allocate is a native access table. Thanks for the assistance Function AllocationFactors() Dim MyDb As Database, myds1 As Recordset Set MyDb = CurrentDb() Set myds1 = MyDb.OpenRecordset("tbl Wells to Allocate", dbOpenTable) Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Sep 19 08:35:07 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:35:07 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question References: <432F2709.13744.132662B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001701c5bd1e$f6420ec0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 Does Google use mySQL? Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question > On 19 Sep 2005 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that > > CustomerID is used for rows ordering: > > > .... > > > > Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar > > simple queries > > Repeat of my posting to this list on 7 May 2005: > > On 6 May 2005 at 10:43, Joe Rojas wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > How do sites like eBay show only X number of items at a time and allow users to jump to a page number or click next? > > > > Is there a SQL statement that allows you to select the 2nd > > (3rd,4th,5th,...)set of X number of records in a database? > > > > If they are using MySQL they will be using the LIMIT command > > > The LIMIT clause can be used to constrain the number of rows returned by > the SELECT statement. LIMIT takes one or two numeric arguments, which must > be integer constants. > > With two arguments, the first argument specifies the offset of the first > row to return, and the second specifies the maximum number of rows to > return. The offset of the initial row is 0 (not 1): > > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Mon Sep 19 08:41:19 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:41:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CDA8@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Chester The first thing that springs to mind - when you declare your data objects (recordset etc.) try explicitly naming the types, as I notice you have references set to both ADO and DAO. Hence: Dim MyDb As DAO.Database, myds1 As DAO.Recordset Maybe this'll help? Cheers Tom -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: 19-Sep-2005 14:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error The following code generates a type mismatch error when the table tries to open. I am not seeing a problem since the code ran in another DB. References are set for VB for Applications, MS Access 11.0 Object Library, OLE Automation, Microsoft DAO 3.6 Object Library and Microsoft Active X Data Objects 2.1 library. tbl Wells to Allocate is a native access table. Thanks for the assistance Function AllocationFactors() Dim MyDb As Database, myds1 As Recordset Set MyDb = CurrentDb() Set myds1 = MyDb.OpenRecordset("tbl Wells to Allocate", dbOpenTable) Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 19 08:55:40 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Message-ID: Thanks. That got it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tom Bolton Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Hi Chester The first thing that springs to mind - when you declare your data objects (recordset etc.) try explicitly naming the types, as I notice you have references set to both ADO and DAO. Hence: Dim MyDb As DAO.Database, myds1 As DAO.Recordset Maybe this'll help? Cheers Tom -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: 19-Sep-2005 14:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error The following code generates a type mismatch error when the table tries to open. I am not seeing a problem since the code ran in another DB. References are set for VB for Applications, MS Access 11.0 Object Library, OLE Automation, Microsoft DAO 3.6 Object Library and Microsoft Active X Data Objects 2.1 library. tbl Wells to Allocate is a native access table. Thanks for the assistance Function AllocationFactors() Dim MyDb As Database, myds1 As Recordset Set MyDb = CurrentDb() Set myds1 = MyDb.OpenRecordset("tbl Wells to Allocate", dbOpenTable) Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 19 09:07:20 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:07:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Question In-Reply-To: <001701c5bd1e$f6420ec0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0IN200DIAHVZ8T@l-daemon> Hi Shamil: I would suspect that Google uses an advanced custom designed OLAP database engine where virtually ever field is indexed and weighted. I understand that their databases reside on Linux boxes. A free (trial?) small version of the Google engine/service can be acquired at https://services.google.com/cobrand/free_trial HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 Does Google use mySQL? Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question > On 19 Sep 2005 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that > > CustomerID is used for rows ordering: > > > .... > > > > Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar > > simple queries > > Repeat of my posting to this list on 7 May 2005: > > On 6 May 2005 at 10:43, Joe Rojas wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > How do sites like eBay show only X number of items at a time and allow users to jump to a page number or click next? > > > > Is there a SQL statement that allows you to select the 2nd > > (3rd,4th,5th,...)set of X number of records in a database? > > > > If they are using MySQL they will be using the LIMIT command > > > The LIMIT clause can be used to constrain the number of rows returned by > the SELECT statement. LIMIT takes one or two numeric arguments, which must > be integer constants. > > With two arguments, the first argument specifies the offset of the first > row to return, and the second specifies the maximum number of rows to > return. The offset of the initial row is 0 (not 1): > > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 19 14:09:02 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef Message-ID: <20050919190902.44697.qmail@web81505.mail.yahoo.com> I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? Thanks, Jeremy Toves ************************************* Sub PullRecords() Dim rs As Recordset Dim cn As Connection Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer strCn = "ODBC; " _ & "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ & "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ & "DBQ=tns_name; " _ & "UID=username; " _ & "PWD=password;" strSQL = "SELECT " _ & "TableName.* " _ & "FROM " _ & "TableName " _ & "WHERE " _ & "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) & ";" Set cn = New Connection cn.ConnectionString = strCn cn.Open Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) ========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== Next rs.Close cn.Close End Sub From accma at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 19 14:53:02 2005 From: accma at sympatico.ca (accma at sympatico.ca) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:53:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Message-ID: <20050919200148.OOTK2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 19 15:08:04 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:08:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Message-ID: I have Access 97 (Jet 3.51), Access 2000 and Access 2002 (both Jet 4.0) and Visual Studio.Net (also Jet 4.0) on two different machines and have had no problems. Was there something in particular you were worried about? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accma at sympatico.ca [mailto:accma at sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 19 15:09:49 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:09:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef Message-ID: I don't know exactly what it is you want to do, but here is an example of how to create a table using ADOX. Public Function CreateTableADO() Dim tbl As ADOX.Table Dim cat As ADOX.Catalog ' Open the Catalog. Set cat = New ADOX.Catalog cat.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set tbl = New ADOX.Table With tbl .Name = "MyTable" .Columns.Append "Column1", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column2", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column3", adVarWChar, 50 End With cat.Tables.Append tbl Set tbl = Nothing Set cat = Nothing End Function Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Toves [mailto:itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:09 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? Thanks, Jeremy Toves ************************************* Sub PullRecords() Dim rs As Recordset Dim cn As Connection Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer strCn = "ODBC; " _ & "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ & "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ & "DBQ=tns_name; " _ & "UID=username; " _ & "PWD=password;" strSQL = "SELECT " _ & "TableName.* " _ & "FROM " _ & "TableName " _ & "WHERE " _ & "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) & ";" Set cn = New Connection cn.ConnectionString = strCn cn.Open Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) ========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== Next rs.Close cn.Close End Sub -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 19 16:29:07 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050919212907.53405.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks! I'll try that. Jeremy Charlotte Foust wrote: I don't know exactly what it is you want to do, but here is an example of how to create a table using ADOX. Public Function CreateTableADO() Dim tbl As ADOX.Table Dim cat As ADOX.Catalog ' Open the Catalog. Set cat = New ADOX.Catalog cat.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set tbl = New ADOX.Table With tbl .Name = "MyTable" .Columns.Append "Column1", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column2", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column3", adVarWChar, 50 End With cat.Tables.Append tbl Set tbl = Nothing Set cat = Nothing End Function Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Toves [mailto:itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:09 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? Thanks, Jeremy Toves ************************************* Sub PullRecords() Dim rs As Recordset Dim cn As Connection Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer strCn = "ODBC; " _ & "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ & "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ & "DBQ=tns_name; " _ & "UID=username; " _ & "PWD=password;" strSQL = "SELECT " _ & "TableName.* " _ & "FROM " _ & "TableName " _ & "WHERE " _ & "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) & ";" Set cn = New Connection cn.ConnectionString = strCn cn.Open Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) ========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== Next rs.Close cn.Close End Sub -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Sep 19 17:23:10 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:23:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef References: <20050919212907.53405.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <432F3A4E.3030403@shaw.ca> If you download the Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC) 2.8 Software Development Kit SDK or the 2.6 one http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=5067faf8-0db4-429a-b502-de4329c8c850&DisplayLang=en It should contain this ms ado help file "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Data Access SDK\Docs\ado260.chm" Boatloads of sample vb code to do most of this in the help file. or try here , you might want to sign up for rod stephens news letter too. http://www.vb-helper.com/index_database.html#ado Jeremy Toves wrote: >Thanks! I'll try that. > >Jeremy > > > >Charlotte Foust wrote: >I don't know exactly what it is you want to do, but here is an example >of how to create a table using ADOX. > >Public Function CreateTableADO() >Dim tbl As ADOX.Table >Dim cat As ADOX.Catalog > >' Open the Catalog. >Set cat = New ADOX.Catalog >cat.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection >Set tbl = New ADOX.Table >With tbl >.Name = "MyTable" >.Columns.Append "Column1", adInteger >.Columns.Append "Column2", adInteger >.Columns.Append "Column3", adVarWChar, 50 >End With >cat.Tables.Append tbl >Set tbl = Nothing >Set cat = Nothing >End Function > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeremy Toves [mailto:itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net] >Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:09 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef > > >I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into >ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle >database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic >output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the >wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? > >Thanks, >Jeremy Toves > > > >************************************* > > >Sub PullRecords() >Dim rs As Recordset >Dim cn As Connection >Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String >Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer > >strCn = "ODBC; " _ >& "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ >& "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ >& "DBQ=tns_name; " _ >& "UID=username; " _ >& "PWD=password;" > >strSQL = "SELECT " _ >& "TableName.* " _ >& "FROM " _ >& "TableName " _ >& "WHERE " _ >& "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) >& ";" > >Set cn = New Connection >cn.ConnectionString = strCn >cn.Open >Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString >Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) > >intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count > >For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 >Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) > >========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull >here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process >to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== > >Next > >rs.Close >cn.Close >End Sub > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 19 19:08:35 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:08:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Message-ID: I have Access 97 (Jet 3.51), Access 2000 and Access 2002 (both Jet 4.0) and Visual Studio.Net (also Jet 4.0) on two different machines and have had no problems. Was there something in particular you were worried about? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accma at sympatico.ca [mailto:accma at sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 10:52:29 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:52:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: On 16/09/05, John W. Colby wrote: > I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database > behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in > implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. John, Even though I replied to you off-list, I'll offer whatever help I can. If you are using a Linux server to set this up on, I'd be more than happy to help. If you are setting this up on a MS server, I'll be more than happy to give what help I can, but I don't have any experience with MS servers. I can also do web coding. Web Design is a bit of a stretch for me, but taking the design and turning it into clean code, I can do. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From david.powell at kcl.ac.uk Tue Sep 20 03:11:01 2005 From: david.powell at kcl.ac.uk (david Powell) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:11:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 In-Reply-To: <20050919200148.OOTK2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Message-ID: <200509200811.j8K8BKT13413@databaseadvisors.com> As long as the various versions of Access are installed in historical order it should be OK. David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of accma at sympatico.ca Sent: 19 September 2005 20:53 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Tue Sep 20 07:21:55 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. When this form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. Basically they will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. They may then be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. Thanks in advance John W Clark From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Tue Sep 20 07:44:13 2005 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:44:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: Is the Data Entry property of the form set to "Yes" Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:22 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem > > I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. > When this > form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. > Basically they > will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. > They may then > be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be > judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a > judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they > enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they > probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the > other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. > > I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. > > Thanks in advance > > John W Clark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cyx5 at cdc.gov Tue Sep 20 08:46:01 2005 From: cyx5 at cdc.gov (Nicholson, Karen) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:46:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: open form acadd or something like that? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Is the Data Entry property of the form set to "Yes" Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:22 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem > > I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. > When this > form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. > Basically they > will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. > They may then > be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be > judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a > judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they > enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they > probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the > other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. > > I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. > > Thanks in advance > > John W Clark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 20 09:29:35 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (bchacc at san.rr.com) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:29:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: <380-220059220142935519@M2W079.mail2web.com> John: DoCmd.GoToRecord ,,acNewRec in the FormOpen event followed by cmdNewName.SetFocus? Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: John Clark John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. When this form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. Basically they will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. They may then be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. Thanks in advance John W Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 20 09:29:45 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (bchacc at san.rr.com) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:29:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: <380-22005922014294536@M2W060.mail2web.com> John: DoCmd.GoToRecord ,,acNewRec in the FormOpen event followed by cmdNewName.SetFocus? Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: John Clark John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. When this form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. Basically they will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. They may then be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. Thanks in advance John W Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Sep 20 09:47:40 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:47:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Message-ID: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Sep 20 09:52:32 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:52:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question References: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <000f01c5bdf2$ee4ee3d0$9111758f@aine> Impact Printer? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question > Hi gang! > > > > I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. > The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The > Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving > gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering > if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around > this issue. > > > > The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each > print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was > just > wondering if anyone had a better solution. > > > > Doris Manning > > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 20 09:54:56 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:54:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <004401c5bdf3$43d4cf90$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> You can print to a dot matrix printer (physical impact printer) and they just continue to use their existing form. You set up the report to line up with the existing places on the physical form. This is a valid option. Or you could set up a form with a watermark that prints the info of who gets that copy printed in the watermark, perhaps even in different color inks. To do this you might need a different report for each property (to get the watermark) or you might be able to load the watermark as the report opens. Not sure on that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:48 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Tue Sep 20 09:57:06 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:57:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: Doris, Might be thinking wrongly here, but if they are using multi-part forms then surely everything that's gets printed will be copied onto every sheet, so couldn't you do a footer with the appropriate text in something like: Gold to Originator - White to Accounting - Yellow to Receiving - Pink to Purchasing Then this text would get transferred to every copy Paul -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: 20 September 2005 15:48 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 20 10:02:30 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:02:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <004401c5bdf3$43d4cf90$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050920150231.IHOD22439.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, I'm wondering -- if there's no longer any color or any other designation to separate the four copies, who cares who gets which copy? Did you need this color business at all? One copy to each of the following: blah, blah... At the bottom. Better yet, do you even need that? Do they know who gets copies? Dare you suggest distributing forms (reports) via email and dispensing with the whole matter all together? Susan H. You can print to a dot matrix printer (physical impact printer) and they just continue to use their existing form. You set up the report to line up with the existing places on the physical form. This is a valid option. Or you could set up a form with a watermark that prints the info of who gets that copy printed in the watermark, perhaps even in different color inks. To do this you might need a different report for each property (to get the watermark) or you might be able to load the watermark as the report opens. Not sure on that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:48 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 20 10:53:30 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:53:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <24027451.1127227893315.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000001c5bdfb$7308e190$0200a8c0@danwaters> Hi Doris! Don't print at all! Have your system automatically send an email to each person with the subject line, "Purchase Order XX Ready For Review". Now each person can go into the database, read the info and take action, or print the report if they must. The color system of multi-part forms was done to ensure that everyone did get the information they needed. They really didn't need the paper - they just need the information. If someone had simply copied the original form and then made sure that each person got what they needed, that would have worked too, but the colored multi-part form is a more certain way. Or, if they absolutely have to have a copy sent to them, you can send an email with a snapshot formatted copy of the purchase order report attached. (Look up SendObject in Help.) If the receivers don't have Access, they can download a free viewer from MS. Best of Luck! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:48 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 20 11:10:15 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:10:15 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi John (and Ervin) That's right! A line describes the line above: how many of first digit, how many of next different digit, etc. To me, this would mean that the first line should be 0 ... Re 1. It contains an error as it was localized. That's a hint. In English the values are: - Jan is 55 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 However, it is possible to create a formula building the original values from a mix of month values, quarter values and half-year values - should you wonder. Re 3. It is completely numeric, no funny tricks as in 1. As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do the dirty work: U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to satisfy the formula: UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 16-09-2005 19:20 >>> 2 = 13112221 correct? I think I did one similar to this years back. If so, it would then be followed by 1113213211 John W. Clark >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 9/16/2005 11:22 AM >>> Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 20 11:18:34 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:18:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050920161835.HNFC15611.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do the dirty work: U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to satisfy the formula: UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU ========Gustav, um... I prefer chocolate. :) In no lifetime will I ever think of math as a bonus. :) Susan H. From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 20 11:44:48 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:44:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: Hi Doris, We built a PO System for a client and made different text appear on each copy, using the visible property. It works well, but is a little awkward. The one thing that was kind of neat about the system is that they could look up an old purchase order and then hit a button to duplicate, incrememting the PO number by one to create a new po that looked exactly like the old one. All they had to do was then edit the line items if they wanted to . These people ordered a lot of the same items each month from the same supplier. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 20 12:13:18 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:13:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan I prefer chocolate too, but if you eat too much you get fat. That won't happen eating creamy math exercises for fun! /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 20-09-2005 18:18 >>> As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do the dirty work: U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to satisfy the formula: UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU ========Gustav, um... I prefer chocolate. :) In no lifetime will I ever think of math as a bonus. :) Susan H. From hoopesg at hotmail.com Tue Sep 20 12:14:25 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:14:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box Message-ID: Hi, all. I've got a problem that I can't sort out by myself. I have a database being used by a data entry clerk. She needs to see a list of information by department number. I created a simple form with an unbound combo box where she selects the department she wishes to view. She can then do several things based on that selection - view it for printing, export it to Excel, or open a form with that department ID as the form's criteria. Here's the rub -- when she views the list on a form, I'd like to give her the ability to change departments on the fly. So if she's looking at a form filtered for DeptID 104735, she could use a combo box populated with all of the department numbers to change the recordsource for her form's data. The combo box value on the orignal form where she picks the department number provides criteria for the query on which the second form is based. I think perhaps if I could set it up so that the second form's recordsource was set directly from her choice on the first form rather than a query it would be easier for her to change it but I'm having trouble doing that. If this makes sense, has anyone got any good ideas for me? Thanks! Gina From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Sep 20 14:37:25 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:37:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record Message-ID: OK, I've worn myself out... I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale (let's call them details). I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and within that one new record there should be three of those details. If there is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two details on this record. If there are two details, I will write two details to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. Original tables tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every sale record ID------------------ fkSales Sale# ParcelNum I need this in the new table tblSalesExport ID Sale# Parcel1 Parcel2 Parcel3 However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. Can anyone help? And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of Indiana has come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only wants to see three of them. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Sep 20 14:59:23 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:59:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c5be1d$ccd11270$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> I had a similar need. What I did is to use the same recordsource for both drop downs. In the Form Current event of the second form, I set the department dropdown's initial value to the value from the first form and then requeried the second form. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Sep 20 15:01:21 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:01:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c5be1e$137777a0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Can you post the code you are currently trying to use? A fresh set of eyes might spot the exit loop problem you are having. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record OK, I've worn myself out... I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale (let's call them details). I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and within that one new record there should be three of those details. If there is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two details on this record. If there are two details, I will write two details to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. Original tables tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every sale record ID------------------ fkSales Sale# ParcelNum I need this in the new table tblSalesExport ID Sale# Parcel1 Parcel2 Parcel3 However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. Can anyone help? And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of Indiana has come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only wants to see three of them. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 20 15:00:45 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:00:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C8C70C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFC0@ADGSERVER> You could do it via vba and a recordset, Something like: 'warning - air code 'assuming that your logical key - name, ssn, etc is in LogKey strKey="" Do while not rs.eof 'reset our count and test key if rs!LogKey<>strkey then i=1 strkey=rs!LogKey else i=i+1 end if 'if have less than 3 of a given record, process it 'if more than 3rd record, then it will be skipped if i<=3 then select case I case 1: 'write 1st part case 2: 'write 2nd part case 3: 'write 3rd part end select endif 'get next record rs.movenext loop Hope that I understood your issue correctly. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record OK, I've worn myself out... I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale (let's call them details). I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and within that one new record there should be three of those details. If there is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two details on this record. If there are two details, I will write two details to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. Original tables tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every sale record ID------------------ fkSales Sale# ParcelNum I need this in the new table tblSalesExport ID Sale# Parcel1 Parcel2 Parcel3 However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. Can anyone help? And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of Indiana has come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only wants to see three of them. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Sep 20 15:16:33 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:16:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <000101c5be1e$137777a0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: I've eliminated it and started over. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris > Manning > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:01 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > > Can you post the code you are currently trying to use? A fresh > set of eyes > might spot the exit loop problem you are having. > > Doris Manning > mikedorism at verizon.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > OK, I've worn myself out... > > I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale > (let's call them details). > > I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and > within that one new record there should be three of those > details. If there > is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table > and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two > details on this record. If there are two details, I will write > two details > to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. > > Original tables > tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every > sale record > ID------------------ fkSales > Sale# ParcelNum > > I need this in the new table > tblSalesExport > ID > Sale# > Parcel1 > Parcel2 > Parcel3 > > However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I > can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. > > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > > Can anyone help? > > And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of > Indiana has > come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual > data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only > wants to see > three of them. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 20 16:43:03 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:43:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdfb$7308e190$0200a8c0@danwaters> References: <24027451.1127227893315.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <43310F07.27523.8A49F27@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Sep 2005 at 10:53, Dan Waters wrote: > The color system of multi-part forms was done to ensure that everyone did > get the information they needed. They really didn't need the paper - they > just need the information. Try telling that to bean counters who insist on a physical copy for the stores clerk to check and sign off against the physical delivery at the receiving point, a copy for the accounts clerk to use and sign off when the PO in entered into the accounting system, a copy attached to to the Invoice when the the cheque is signed etc -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 20 16:43:03 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:43:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <43310F07.16933.8A49F75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Sep 2005 at 10:47, Mike & Doris Manning wrote: > > The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each > print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just > wondering if anyone had a better solution. > I have one client that I built a PO system for which has done away with paper completely. It uses emails to send the orders and to keep everyone informed of the status of orders. (But there is an option to print out a single suppliers hard copy of the order if necessary). I have another client who still needed the paper trail but who wanted to just print the orders on a plain paper printer. For them I have a table (tblPOCopies) with a single text field (CopyNumber) and four rows: "1.White - Original to Supplier", "2,Pink - File Copy" etc. I include this table in the Purchase Order query (no join conditions so you get a Cartesian product). I group the order report by OrderNumber, CopyNumber and have the CopyNumber footer throw a pagebreak after the section. . Then I put the CopyNumber field in the pagefooter. Voila - four copies, each with a different different page footer containing the distribution info. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 20 17:20:34 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:20:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <433117D2.25564.8C6F7C1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Sale# ParcelNum > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double precision number. > I need this in the new table ... > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) While not rs.eof Select case rs!NoOfSales Case 1 'write record using an SQL Insert ' write two blank records Case 2 'write records using an SQL Insert ' write one blank record Case > 2 'write records using an SQL Insert End Select rs.movenext Wend In the first two cases, use an "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." in the third case use "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." -- Stuart From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Sep 20 23:17:18 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:17:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921161452.0319cd60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Access 97 DAO I am creating a table using DAO. How do I create an autonumber field? My current line is: Set fld = tbldef.CreateField("NetExpAllowanceID", dbLong) This of course only creates a number datatype. I can't see in the help the constant for an autonumber data type. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 999 Moonshine Rd, RD 1 Judgeford, Porirua New Zealand 6006 Phone 0064 4 235-6782 Fax 0064 4 235-6783 From pcs at azizaz.com Tue Sep 20 23:34:15 2005 From: pcs at azizaz.com (Borge Hansen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:34:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921161452.0319cd60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <005901c5be65$b94728f0$fa10a8c0@Albatross> David, Here is the pointer to MS's suggestion for how to do it in Access97 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q113546/ regards borge goldcoast, australia (back again after dropping off the list in may due to travel) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Emerson" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:17 PM Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field > Access 97 DAO > > I am creating a table using DAO. How do I create an autonumber > field? My current line is: > > Set fld = tbldef.CreateField("NetExpAllowanceID", dbLong) > > This of course only creates a number datatype. I can't see in the > help the constant for an autonumber data type. > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > 999 Moonshine Rd, RD 1 > Judgeford, Porirua > New Zealand 6006 > Phone 0064 4 235-6782 > Fax 0064 4 235-6783 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Sep 20 23:52:48 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:52:48 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field In-Reply-To: <005901c5be65$b94728f0$fa10a8c0@Albatross> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921161452.0319cd60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <005901c5be65$b94728f0$fa10a8c0@Albatross> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921165224.0319aeb0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Excellent - Thanks. At 21/09/2005, you wrote: >David, >Here is the pointer to MS's suggestion for how to do it in Access97 >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q113546/ > >regards >borge >goldcoast, australia >(back again after dropping off the list in may due to travel) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Emerson" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:17 PM >Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field > > > > Access 97 DAO > > > > I am creating a table using DAO. How do I create an autonumber > > field? My current line is: > > > > Set fld = tbldef.CreateField("NetExpAllowanceID", dbLong) > > > > This of course only creates a number datatype. I can't see in the > > help the constant for an autonumber data type. > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > 999 Moonshine Rd, RD 1 > > Judgeford, Porirua > > New Zealand 6006 > > Phone 0064 4 235-6782 > > Fax 0064 4 235-6783 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Sep 21 00:12:45 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:42:45 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box References: Message-ID: <010e01c5be6b$398d3220$f01865cb@winxp> Gina, Manipulation of form's Filter property should prove convenient in your case. This involves a pair of statements similar to the following. (a) For code within the form Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = True (b) For code in a different form Forms("").Filter = "" Forms("").FilterOn = True (Filtered results get displayed very promptly and there is no need for performing any requery) It has to be kept in view that any filter applied at run time works in tandem with the filter (if any) built into the record source. It becomes filter on filter. It would therefore be necessary to keep the record source free of any filtering pertaining to field/fields of interest. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Gina Hoopes To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 22:44 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box Hi, all. I've got a problem that I can't sort out by myself. I have a database being used by a data entry clerk. She needs to see a list of information by department number. I created a simple form with an unbound combo box where she selects the department she wishes to view. She can then do several things based on that selection - view it for printing, export it to Excel, or open a form with that department ID as the form's criteria. Here's the rub -- when she views the list on a form, I'd like to give her the ability to change departments on the fly. So if she's looking at a form filtered for DeptID 104735, she could use a combo box populated with all of the department numbers to change the recordsource for her form's data. The combo box value on the orignal form where she picks the department number provides criteria for the query on which the second form is based. I think perhaps if I could set it up so that the second form's recordsource was set directly from her choice on the first form rather than a query it would be easier for her to change it but I'm having trouble doing that. If this makes sense, has anyone got any good ideas for me? Thanks! Gina From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Sep 21 03:08:20 2005 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 04:08:20 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: <193.4891138e.30626ef4@aol.com> Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 21 06:17:38 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 04:17:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <193.4891138e.30626ef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <0IN500D07ZD1F4@l-daemon> Hi John: Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of use but does give an indication of current program interest. http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are still many legacy applications out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Wed Sep 21 06:27:13 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:27:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <0IN500D07ZD1F4@l-daemon> Message-ID: I would imagine that there would be a market for FoxPro skills as it's included in Visual Studio (version 6), along with Visual Basic, InterDev and C++ Paul Hartland Database Developer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 21 September 2005 12:18 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi John: Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of use but does give an indication of current program interest. http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are still many legacy applications out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Sep 21 06:55:04 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:55:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <0IN500D07ZD1F4@l-daemon> References: <193.4891138e.30626ef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <4331D6B8.5254.BB09A14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 21 Sep 2005 at 4:17, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on > various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of > use but does give an indication of current program interest. > > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > > At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are > still many legacy applications out there. > I'd be dubious about any list that monitors dBase, Clarion, Clipper, MUMPS, PowerBuilder, Progress and Visual FoxPro but not Access. They are all Database Application Development Systems rather than languages and I'd suspect that there are more Access applications around than several of the others combined. -- Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 21 07:34:07 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:34:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <4331D6B8.5254.BB09A14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0IN600I8H2WLE8@l-daemon> Good point Stuart... They have also disregarded ASP and similar languages as just HTML/XML/SQL/CSS environments which they do not consider languages but just support products for other languages like JavaScript.(?) It is also doubtful that they monitor groups, like Python, Oracle and especially Access user-groups which are islands of hard-core users. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 On 21 Sep 2005 at 4:17, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on > various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of > use but does give an indication of current program interest. > > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > > At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are > still many legacy applications out there. > I'd be dubious about any list that monitors dBase, Clarion, Clipper, MUMPS, PowerBuilder, Progress and Visual FoxPro but not Access. They are all Database Application Development Systems rather than languages and I'd suspect that there are more Access applications around than several of the others combined. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at outbaktech.com Wed Sep 21 07:42:28 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:42:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: Hello group! I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to share is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Sep 21 07:57:17 2005 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:57:17 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: <12e.66b7c7e0.3062b2ad@aol.com> Hi Jeff Have a look at _http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/_ (http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/) I've used their material many times it get boring but its easy to use althought not cheap to buy. johnc From word_diva at hotmail.com Wed Sep 21 08:28:28 2005 From: word_diva at hotmail.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:28:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) References: Message-ID: I have done a little Access training, basically explaining the difference between Access and Excel and when to use each one. The training was very informal with a group of paralegals. I'm not sure if I could find the materials I used but I will certainly look. And my advice would be to keep it simple, very simple. I'd be happy to discuss further, off line if you want. Nancy nlytle at mdon-line.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) > Hello group! > > I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. > As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has > done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing > to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. > > I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to > share is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Barrows > MCP, MCAD, MCSD > > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > jeff at outbaktech.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JHewson at karta.com Wed Sep 21 08:32:37 2005 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:32:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C036B71DE@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I've used the materials from this company. http://www.customguide.com/access_training/access_training.htm We have a contact in our area that bought the entire suite of instructional books. For a small fee per book, I received student books, instructor book, quick reference guides and a CD with the student exercise files. I conducted a two-day class with 20 students, well worth the price. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Hi Jeff Have a look at _http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/_ (http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/) I've used their material many times it get boring but its easy to use althought not cheap to buy. johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 08:37:09 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:37:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050921133709.FHSG11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've done a little, but I have few training materials because each group is unique in its needs. If they're truly beginners, you might suggest that they get a Dummies level book -- Mike G. and I wrote one for Que in the Absolute Beginner's Guide series. But if the employer doesn't give them the time to read and work on the job, that doesn't do much good -- but if they can it's a great way to prepare them. I usually send out a questionnaire to determine the group's core level. You can't show intermediate types how to use wizards -- know what I mean? Susan H. > Hello group! > > I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. > As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has > done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing > to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. > > I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to > share is greatly appreciated. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Sep 21 08:46:34 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: 21 Sep 2005 13:46:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) In-Reply-To: <20050921133709.FHSG11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20050921133709.FHSG11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Email me of list and I will send you something we use. Martin On Sep 21 2005, Susan Harkins wrote: > I've done a little, but I have few training materials because each group > is unique in its needs. If they're truly beginners, you might suggest > that they get a Dummies level book -- Mike G. and I wrote one for Que in > the Absolute Beginner's Guide series. But if the employer doesn't give > them the time to read and work on the job, that doesn't do much good -- > but if they can it's a great way to prepare them. > > I usually send out a questionnaire to determine the group's core level. > You can't show intermediate types how to use wizards -- know what I mean? > > Susan H. > > > > Hello group! > > > > I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access > > training. > > > As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has > > done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be > > willing > > > to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to > > share. > > > > I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to > > share is greatly appreciated. > > -- Martin WP Reid Analyst Information Services Queens University Belfast From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 21 09:28:07 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:28:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C8C733@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFCA@ADGSERVER> I thought that he was wanting to combine the 1st three related records into one record as in: Rec 1 AAAAAAA 45.00 Rec 2 AAAAAAA 67.87 Rec 3 AAAAAAA 23.23 Rec 4 AAAAAAA 128.93 Into a new table such as: AAAAAAA 45.00 67.87 23.23 Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Sale# ParcelNum > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double precision number. > I need this in the new table ... > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) While not rs.eof Select case rs!NoOfSales Case 1 'write record using an SQL Insert ' write two blank records Case 2 'write records using an SQL Insert ' write one blank record Case > 2 'write records using an SQL Insert End Select rs.movenext Wend In the first two cases, use an "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." in the third case use "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Wed Sep 21 09:48:43 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:48:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFCA@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: I am, Bobby. I'm using Bobby's code as a base to start and I'm getting pretty close now. However, I have to go help 1st graders (my son's class) in the computer lab today so this project gets to wait. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:28 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > > I thought that he was wanting to combine the 1st three related > records into > one record as in: > > Rec 1 AAAAAAA 45.00 > Rec 2 AAAAAAA 67.87 > Rec 3 AAAAAAA 23.23 > Rec 4 AAAAAAA 128.93 > > Into a new table such as: > > AAAAAAA 45.00 67.87 23.23 > > Bobby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > > On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > > > Sale# ParcelNum > > > > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA > thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double > precision number. > > > I need this in the new table > ... > > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to > one row of a > > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be > three even if > > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > > > > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as > NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) > > While not rs.eof > Select case rs!NoOfSales > Case 1 > 'write record using an SQL Insert > ' write two blank records > Case 2 > 'write records using an SQL Insert > ' write one blank record > Case > 2 > 'write records using an SQL Insert > End Select > rs.movenext > Wend > > In the first two cases, use an > "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." > in the third case use > "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 21 10:02:08 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:02:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: For heavens sake, start with an explanation of relational design! The O'Reilly book, Access Database Design & Programming, is a good resource for that in simple form. Teaching anyone how to "use" Access without a basic knowledge of relational concepts is counterproductive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:42 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Hello group! I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to share is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 21 10:03:37 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:03:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: It is no longer included in Visual Studio after VS6, though. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartland (ISHARP) [mailto:paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 I would imagine that there would be a market for FoxPro skills as it's included in Visual Studio (version 6), along with Visual Basic, InterDev and C++ Paul Hartland Database Developer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 21 September 2005 12:18 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi John: Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of use but does give an indication of current program interest. http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are still many legacy applications out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 21 10:09:49 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:09:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C8C733@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFCB@ADGSERVER> Stuart, Does Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on .... return a field NoOfSales that acts as a counter for each record returned? As in: NoOfSales Key Amt 1 AAAAAAA 45.00 2 AAAAAAA 67.87 3 AAAAAAA 23.23 4 AAAAAAA 128.93 1 BBBBBBB 9.99 1 CCCCCCC 4.44 2 CCCCCCC 0.00 Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Sale# ParcelNum > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double precision number. > I need this in the new table ... > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) While not rs.eof Select case rs!NoOfSales Case 1 'write record using an SQL Insert ' write two blank records Case 2 'write records using an SQL Insert ' write one blank record Case > 2 'write records using an SQL Insert End Select rs.movenext Wend In the first two cases, use an "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." in the third case use "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." -- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 21 10:09:59 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:09:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: FoxPro has been around for a very long time. It started out as a dBase clone but is based on the Rushmore database engine, which is much faster than Jet, and which is the reason Microsoft bought it in the first place. There are a lot of older apps out there that were originally written in FoxPro for the speed and then were maintained over the years rather than being rewritten in something else. Visual FoxPro eventually became the product it was supposed to be (the early Visual versions were simply a UI designer over a command line editor), but it seems to be as much a stepchild now as Access is becoming. It is no longer in Visual Studio and I haven't heard whether there are any plans to make it .Net compliant. I know Access won't be, at least not if you can believe Microsoft. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Johncliviger at aol.com [mailto:Johncliviger at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 21 11:23:38 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:23:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Sep 21 11:38:35 2005 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:38:35 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: <54.4cf5562f.3062e68b@aol.com> In a message dated 21/09/2005 16:14:17 GMT Daylight Time, cfoust at infostatsystems.com writes: Charlotte Hi Charlotte Thanks for the comments on Foxpro. Its been very helpful regards johnc From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 21 11:53:53 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509211653.j8LGrxT09718@databaseadvisors.com> I wonder if you've got enough data in the Wells_Active table. I'm thinking that a well has both a DateActivated and a DateTerminated column, but perhaps this is irrelevant to your needs. Assuming from your description that you care only about when the well was activated, flip the query around (of ease of comprehension). SELECT * FROM Wells_Active INNER JOIN Wells ON WellsActive.WellID = Wells.WellID WHERE Wells_Active.DateActivated < [Enter a date] If you have a DateTerminated column in addition (note the adroit avoidance of "as well"), then you want to compare against both dates. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 21 12:34:12 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:34:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: You are correct I only care about date activated. >From your response I don't think I made my question clear. In the Wells_Active table I have a column of dates and a column of wellnames. These start in March 1995 with a number of wells listed each month. The result I need is a list (date and wellname) of wells that are not active each month. I could probably do it by first building a list of all wells each month using a Cartesian sum query of dates and well names. I would then do an unmatched query using both wellname and date. Was just looking for a better way. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem I wonder if you've got enough data in the Wells_Active table. I'm thinking that a well has both a DateActivated and a DateTerminated column, but perhaps this is irrelevant to your needs. Assuming from your description that you care only about when the well was activated, flip the query around (of ease of comprehension). SELECT * FROM Wells_Active INNER JOIN Wells ON WellsActive.WellID = Wells.WellID WHERE Wells_Active.DateActivated < [Enter a date] If you have a DateTerminated column in addition (note the adroit avoidance of "as well"), then you want to compare against both dates. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebairead at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 12:39:29 2005 From: ebairead at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eoin_C=2E_Bair=E9ad?=) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:39:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem In-Reply-To: <200509211653.j8LGrxT09718@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200509211653.j8LGrxT09718@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <3d2a5ccc050921103950b3249d@mail.gmail.com> You might have to write a little noddy which would loop through a query finding wells that were inactive on any date between two given dates. You could output wither to another table in the database, or (simpler!) to a CSV file that you then printed in a pretty Excel report. On 21/09/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > I wonder if you've got enough data in the Wells_Active table. I'm thinking > that a well has both a DateActivated and a DateTerminated column, but > perhaps this is irrelevant to your needs. Assuming from your description > that you care only about when the well was activated, flip the query > around > (of ease of comprehension). > SELECT * FROM Wells_Active INNER JOIN Wells ON WellsActive.WellID = > Wells.WellID > WHERE Wells_Active.DateActivated < [Enter a date] > If you have a DateTerminated column in addition (note the adroit avoidance > of "as well"), then you want to compare against both dates. > > HTH, > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem > > I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well > numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells > that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not > care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks > > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -- Eoin C. Bair?ad Dublin, Ireland ?th Cliath, ?ire From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 21 13:35:42 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:35:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: Hi Chester First create a query using a Cartesian (multiplying) join to list all possible wells and dates (which means where at least one well was active): SELECT A.WellNo, B.TestDate FROM tblWellDates AS A, tblWellDates AS B GROUP BY A.WellNo, B.TestDate; Save this as, say, qryAll. Then use this to find wells/dates missing: SELECT qryAll.WellNo, qryAll.TestDate FROM qryAll LEFT JOIN tblWellDates ON (qryAll.WellNo = tblWellDates.WellNo) AND (qryAll.TestDate = tblWellDates.TestDate) WHERE tblWellDates.WellNo Is Null; /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem > > I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well > numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells > that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not > care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed Sep 21 13:57:19 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:57:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 21 14:14:14 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:14:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi John That's correct! However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 21 14:16:10 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:16:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: That worked great. Thanks once again to great list members. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Hi Chester First create a query using a Cartesian (multiplying) join to list all possible wells and dates (which means where at least one well was active): SELECT A.WellNo, B.TestDate FROM tblWellDates AS A, tblWellDates AS B GROUP BY A.WellNo, B.TestDate; Save this as, say, qryAll. Then use this to find wells/dates missing: SELECT qryAll.WellNo, qryAll.TestDate FROM qryAll LEFT JOIN tblWellDates ON (qryAll.WellNo = tblWellDates.WellNo) AND (qryAll.TestDate = tblWellDates.TestDate) WHERE tblWellDates.WellNo Is Null; /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem > > I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well > numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells > that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not > care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 14:25:34 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:25:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050921192535.NGS24572.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... =======Excuse me???????????? Susan H. From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Sep 21 14:49:00 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:49:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) References: Message-ID: <4331B92C.1040503@torchlake.com> Jeff, We are using the Thompson Course Technology ILT series as the tutorial books for our Access classes in the Extended Education Services at our college. I add some of my own handouts because relationship and normalization concepts aren't well covered until the second level course - and I think they are central to any understanding of Access. These books are not awfully expensive - we offer them to the students for $16 apiece. They come with a CD full of exercise databases, and walk the student through each step of each task. The summary for each unit has self-testing exercises as well. The newer editions also include an additional CD with an interactive tutorial program. HTH, Tina Jeff Barrows wrote: >Hello group! > >I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. > >I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to share is greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Jeff Barrows >MCP, MCAD, MCSD > >Outbak Technologies, LLC >Racine, WI >jeff at outbaktech.com > > From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 21 15:01:28 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: <26816467.1127330635346.JavaMail.root@sniper18> Message-ID: <000701c5bee7$4197fe10$0300a8c0@danwaters> Gustav, You need to go to www.brownies.com to see where you can buy the hard-won rewards! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi John That's correct! However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Sep 21 15:23:08 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:23:08 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <005401c5beea$4b4c3f40$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Gustav, Here is how it should have been done to get a big tasty chocolate? <+++ - U can be 1 or 2; - U can't be 1 because it's on the right side in the result - something multiplied by 4 can't give 1. Therefore U = 2; - and Z = 8 (2 *4); - 2VXY8 * 4 = 8YXV2; - V can be only equal to 1 because multiplied by 4 it shouldn't be greater than 10. And 8 (2*4) is used already; - 21XY8 * 4 = 8YX12; - Then Y can be 7 only (7*4 = 28 + 3 (from 8*4 = 32) = 31); - 21X78 * 4 = 87X12; - X can be 9 only (7*4 = 28 + 3 = 31 => 3 from here + 9*4 = 36 => 36+3 = 39 => 3 + (4*1) = 7 ================= 21978 * 4 = 87912 ================= +++> Of course I don't deserve a chocolate now (:()) because I did know result in advance calculated by John in MS Excel. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi John > > That's correct! > However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... > > /gustav > > >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> > >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an > calculate > >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do > >the dirty work: > > >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to > >satisfy the formula: > > >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU > > >/gustav > > > 21978 > > 21978 * 4 = 87912 > > I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it > into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. > And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of > consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. > > If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm > getting fat enough already. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 15:21:49 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:21:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: <20050921202150.GPUH22439.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 21 16:17:57 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:17:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F50@gbsserver.GBS.local> Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Sep 21 16:39:21 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:39:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337867@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> We are shut down until Monday and I will be hunkering down at home here 40 mi north of Galveston. I was in Alicia and Allison but this one looks worse by a factor of ten. See ya'll Monday (hopefully) Jim Hale *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 18:16:16 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:16:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F50@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: <20050921231618.DELF8241.ibm67aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 21 20:43:54 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:43:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337867@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: ..time for a quick trip to tica land? ...take care of your family, eh. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Accessd (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita > We are shut down until Monday and I will be hunkering down at home here 40 > mi north of Galveston. I was in Alicia and Allison but this one looks > worse > by a factor of ten. See ya'll Monday (hopefully) > Jim Hale > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:05:44 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:05:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan and Shamil Sorry Susan, nothing personal, but no chocolates for letting Excel do the dirty work. Remember I wrote that a pencil and paper is all that is needed? Study the response from Shamil. That's how to do it. /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 21-09-2005 21:25 >>> However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... =======Excuse me???????????? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:09:31 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:09:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi John Oh my. Looks like heaven. I had to leave that site and its temptations at once ... /gustav >>> dwaters at usinternet.com 21-09-2005 22:01 >>> Gustav, You need to go to www.brownies.com to see where you can buy the hard-won rewards! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi John That's correct! However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. -- From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:12:55 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:12:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] [Private] filtering a subform Message-ID: Hi Susan You could use the method I sent you recently - using Choose(). Not fancy but extremely simple. /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 22-09-2005 01:16 >>> There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:41:44 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:41:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: Hi all Sorry, forgot that simple method is for sorting, not filtering. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 22-09-2005 10:12 >>> Hi Susan You could use the method I sent you recently - using Choose(). Not fancy but extremely simple. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 08:30:41 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:30:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte (and all), There are no plans to make VFP .Net compliant simply because there is no easy way to do it. Like Access, it is a mature product, but Microsoft continues to issues new versions, the last few with significant advances and new features in the product. I've been using it off and on for 4 years now and although Access is still my tool of choice, there are things I can do with VFP that I simply can't do with Access. The OOP is growing on me, but I still feel OOP languages overly complicate things and in the end, you still end up with the same problems that you have in changing objects in a non-oop language. Over all it's not a bad product, but like any other, it does have it's faults along with the good stuff. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 FoxPro has been around for a very long time. It started out as a dBase clone but is based on the Rushmore database engine, which is much faster than Jet, and which is the reason Microsoft bought it in the first place. There are a lot of older apps out there that were originally written in FoxPro for the speed and then were maintained over the years rather than being rewritten in something else. Visual FoxPro eventually became the product it was supposed to be (the early Visual versions were simply a UI designer over a command line editor), but it seems to be as much a stepchild now as Access is becoming. It is no longer in Visual Studio and I haven't heard whether there are any plans to make it .Net compliant. I know Access won't be, at least not if you can believe Microsoft. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Johncliviger at aol.com [mailto:Johncliviger at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 09:11:27 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:11:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh My. Just looked at the site. Blew this diabetics blood sugar clear off the map Gustav, You need to go to www.brownies.com to see where you can buy the hard-won rewards! From robert at servicexp.com Thu Sep 22 09:28:35 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F55@gbsserver.GBS.local> Susan, If you go with the "code" solution you will gain a tremendous amount of flexibility. Robert Gracie -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hoopesg at hotmail.com Thu Sep 22 10:01:05 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:01:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box Message-ID: A.D. and Doris, Thank you so much for your help! Both were great solutions. Gina From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 10:20:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:20:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F55@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: <20050922152021.FYPV19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I agree -- this is just a set of examples for an article and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Susan H. Susan, If you go with the "code" solution you will gain a tremendous amount of flexibility. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Thu Sep 22 10:56:08 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:26:08 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform References: <20050921231618.DELF8241.ibm67aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <004d01c5bf8e$3fcf7930$28b7903b@winxp> Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 11:13:14 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:13:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <004d01c5bf8e$3fcf7930$28b7903b@winxp> Message-ID: <20050922161315.EDRN27918.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Interesting solution. You know what I've found truly odd -- I can't find a way to modify the subform's recordset using code -- that's just odd. I realize that the subform's really just a control, so it's not going to have the same properties and behavior as a form, but you'd think it would have a Record Source property, even as a subform object. I had considered just changing the linking fields, but you have to provide so much code to switch them back and forth, which is a nuisance, but at least it's a solution -- given you can't just change a Record Source property. Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 11:38:24 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:38:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <004d01c5bf8e$3fcf7930$28b7903b@winxp> Message-ID: <20050922163825.HNRB19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Actually, modifying the query isn't necessary. You just have to set the child link to an empty string (""). I had considered this yesterday, but was hoping for something a little shorter, but this morning, it doesn't seem such a big deal. :) Thanks! Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 22 11:40:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:40:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. What you *can* do dynamically is alter the subform object, however, so another alternative would be to have 3 subforms to display the 3 result sets and simply swap out the subform on the button click. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform Interesting solution. You know what I've found truly odd -- I can't find a way to modify the subform's recordset using code -- that's just odd. I realize that the subform's really just a control, so it's not going to have the same properties and behavior as a form, but you'd think it would have a Record Source property, even as a subform object. I had considered just changing the linking fields, but you have to provide so much code to switch them back and forth, which is a nuisance, but at least it's a solution -- given you can't just change a Record Source property. Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:01:39 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:01:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Sep 22 12:16:25 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:16:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CDD0@natexch.jenkens.com> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:26:23 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:26:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CDD0@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <01fd01c5bf9a$c14dd720$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data > entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. > Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was > unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Sep 22 12:37:21 2005 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:37:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <001001c5bf9c$49962ff0$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Rocky, If your not worried about the sophisticated user you could just lock the database up by taking away the shortcut keys, DB window, menus, etc. If they can't see anything when they open the app in Access but your opening screen then they can't copy anything. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:02 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 22 12:40:48 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D24DF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> What if you just ROT-13 encode all the text. To the casual eye it will look like garbage. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to > data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not > viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user > worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the > permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I > had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the > tables and queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the > product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:47:38 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:47:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <001001c5bf9c$49962ff0$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Message-ID: <020a01c5bf9d$b99b98c0$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Doug: I'm doing that now so they can't fool with any of my objects. But if someone who knows access creates a blank database they can still import the tables and queries from the mde. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Rocky, > > If your not worried about the sophisticated user you could just lock the > database up by taking away the shortcut keys, DB window, menus, etc. If > they can't see anything when they open the app in Access but your opening > screen then they can't copy anything. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:02 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:48:38 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:48:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D24DF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <021301c5bf9d$dcfac5c0$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Lambert: Whuzzat? (ROT-13. It sounds dreadful.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > What if you just ROT-13 encode all the text. To the casual eye it will > look > like garbage. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:26 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep > Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. > > 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look > at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if > someone > > wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do > the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It > would > be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which > is a losing proposition. > > So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. > > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elam, Debbie" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > >> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to >> data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not >> viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user >> worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the >> permissions set. >> >> Debbie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >> >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product >> (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I >> had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the >> tables and queries. >> >> Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the >> product? >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) >> subject >> to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) >> strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this >> message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this >> information. >> If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >> (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail >> is > >> a >> violation of federal criminal law. >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >> sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any >> agreement >> by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any >> attachment >> shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained >> herein >> shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic >> Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the >> Uniform >> Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic >> transactions. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fahooper at trapo.com Thu Sep 22 12:49:35 2005 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:49:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <001501c5bf9d$ff6b7410$2e01a8c0@fredxp> You can replace the queries with SQL code (copy/paste from the query viewed as SQL, treating the quotes properly), modified to provide whatever inputs the queries need direct from the code. I've done that a lot, and for a few critical cases where I needed to chain complicated queries together, I create them when they're needed from code, grab the results, and delete them before displaying the results. (It doesn't take much time.) It's still possible get around this, but unlikely. If it's the data in the tables that's the issue, you could encrypt the critical fields -- lots of ways of doing that, but most will require text fields (you could code in the numerical type as part of the encryption, if you needed to). If the table structure is the issue, I doubt there's any way of hiding it other than treating them like the queries above (creating from code what's needed and then deleting it). Fred -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:02 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Sep 22 13:09:35 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:09:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CDD4@natexch.jenkens.com> I liked this approach because it did not look like Access security to the users. They could even use the default .mdw as long as I left the admin password blank. It could be a bit of a pain to work on it, but I have an unsecured copy to work on and then reseure and deploy it. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data > entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. > Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was > unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 13:09:46 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:09:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <001501c5bf9d$ff6b7410$2e01a8c0@fredxp> Message-ID: <023901c5bfa0$d0a7af10$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Fred: Table structure's not too important. It would be nice to hide. But the text is in a memo field. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hooper" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > You can replace the queries with SQL code (copy/paste from the query > viewed > as SQL, treating the quotes properly), modified to provide whatever inputs > the queries need direct from the code. I've done that a lot, and for a few > critical cases where I needed to chain complicated queries together, I > create them when they're needed from code, grab the results, and delete > them > before displaying the results. (It doesn't take much time.) It's still > possible get around this, but unlikely. > > If it's the data in the tables that's the issue, you could encrypt the > critical fields -- lots of ways of doing that, but most will require text > fields (you could code in the numerical type as part of the encryption, if > you needed to). > > If the table structure is the issue, I doubt there's any way of hiding it > other than treating them like the queries above (creating from code what's > needed and then deleting it). > > Fred > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 13:10:04 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:10:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050922181012.IAPG24941.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I thought of that too, but changing the linking field seems to work for the example. Susan H. You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. What you *can* do dynamically is alter the subform object, however, so another alternative would be to have 3 subforms to display the 3 result sets and simply swap out the subform on the button click. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Thu Sep 22 13:18:00 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:48:00 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform References: Message-ID: <001d01c5bfa2$32128990$f7be903b@winxp> Here is a solution that is absolutely code-less. In the source query for subform, have a calculated field named Status (SQL given below). Link MasterField grpStatus to ChildField Status. Option button values remain 0, -1, 1 as stated earlier. That is all. Nothing else needs to be done. A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================= SELECT Products.*, IIf(Forms!F_TestMain!grpStatus = 1, 1, [Discontinued]) AS Status FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Foust To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 22:10 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. What you *can* do dynamically is alter the subform object, however, so another alternative would be to have 3 subforms to display the 3 result sets and simply swap out the subform on the button click. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform Interesting solution. You know what I've found truly odd -- I can't find a way to modify the subform's recordset using code -- that's just odd. I realize that the subform's really just a control, so it's not going to have the same properties and behavior as a form, but you'd think it would have a Record Source property, even as a subform object. I had considered just changing the linking fields, but you have to provide so much code to switch them back and forth, which is a nuisance, but at least it's a solution -- given you can't just change a Record Source property. Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 22 13:31:25 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:31:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01fd01c5bf9a$c14dd720$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <0IN8001DKE4C89@l-daemon> Hi Rocky: The only way to protect the data is to have it kept internally. Looking at the Sleep Advisor application there is very little data that is stored. If the program stored the data internal in an array or series of arrays that would solve the problem. The downside is that you will have a lot more work to do. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data > entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. > Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was > unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 13:31:59 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:31:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <001d01c5bfa2$32128990$f7be903b@winxp> Message-ID: <20050922183200.FWII6253.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> :) Susan H. Here is a solution that is absolutely code-less. In the source query for subform, have a calculated field named Status (SQL given below). From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 13:41:39 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:41:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <0IN8001DKE4C89@l-daemon> Message-ID: <026a01c5bfa5$44bbbaf0$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Jim: Since the user can do part of the assessment stop and come back later, or adjust their responses over time, I have to save their responses in the response table. But it's really the text of the output that I'd like to hide. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Hi Rocky: > > The only way to protect the data is to have it kept internally. Looking at > the Sleep Advisor application there is very little data that is stored. If > the program stored the data internal in an array or series of arrays that > would solve the problem. The downside is that you will have a lot more > work > to do. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep > Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. > > 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look > at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if > someone > > wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do > the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It > would > be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which > is a losing proposition. > > So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. > > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elam, Debbie" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > >> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to >> data >> entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. >> Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it >> was >> unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. >> >> Debbie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >> >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product >> (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had >> the >> mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and >> queries. >> >> Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) >> subject >> to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) >> strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this >> message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this >> information. >> If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >> (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail >> is > >> a >> violation of federal criminal law. >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >> sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any >> agreement >> by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any >> attachment >> shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained >> herein >> shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic >> Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the >> Uniform >> Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic >> transactions. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 13:48:06 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:48:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: Hi Rocky, What if you make all objects hidden? That would at least reduce the number of hackers you need to worry about. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:02 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 22 14:00:35 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:00:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D252D@xlivmbx21.aig.com> It's a very very simply way of scrambling text data - I wouldn't go as far as to say it is encryption). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROT13 http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci214517,00.html See also http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/algorithms/rot39.htm for an Rot-39 algorithm, which has the advantage of also encoding non-alpha characters. Again, none of this is strong encryption or even close. They simply give a fast way to make the data LOOK weird. To use this method all your forms would ROT39 encode the data as it is saved to the tables, and the queries would use the exactly same routine to translate them. Alternatively, if you want to use bound forms you would save plaintext data to the tables and then use an update query to ROT39 encode the new record. If, as has been suggested, you save all your queries as text in code modules then there would be no queries visible to import, and so the nosey user would not immediately see that they were all calling rot39 to translate the data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Lambert: Whuzzat? (ROT-13. It sounds dreadful.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > What if you just ROT-13 encode all the text. To the casual eye it will > look > like garbage. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:26 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep > Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. > > 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to > look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And > if someone > > wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to > do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. > It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to > enforce it which is a losing proposition. > > So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. > > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elam, Debbie" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > >> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to >> data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not >> viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user >> worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the >> permissions set. >> >> Debbie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >> >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product >> (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I >> had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the >> tables and queries. >> >> Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the >> product? >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) >> subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work >> product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended >> recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or >> disseminate this information. >> If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >> (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail >> is > >> a >> violation of federal criminal law. >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >> sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any >> agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or >> in any attachment >> shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained >> herein >> shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic >> Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the >> Uniform >> Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic >> transactions. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 15:35:49 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:35:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: Rocky, You can setup Access security so that the default mdw can be used, but no one can get at the tables. All your data access though must me done through queries with the RWOP set to True (run with owner permissions). However with Access cracking tools in wide spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. Access is not the tool of choice if you really want to protect data. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:02 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 22 16:10:52 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:10:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4333AA7C.9423.12D3CF75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 22 Sep 2005 at 9:40, Charlotte Foust wrote: > You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I > don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. I can. I just tried this and it works perfectly (A2K). Two Tables, Table1 and Table 2 with identical structure. Two Forms, Form1 is a subform of Form2 and Form2 also contains a button. The following code switches display between the two recordsources in the subform every time I click on the button on Form2 Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table2" Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" End If -- Stuart From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 18:33:13 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:33:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <4333AA7C.9423.12D3CF75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20050922233321.KHBF28317.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I need to use a SQL statement. Susan H. On 22 Sep 2005 at 9:40, Charlotte Foust wrote: The following code switches display between the two recordsources in the subform every time I click on the button on Form2 Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table2" Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" End If -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 22 21:30:59 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:30:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <20050922233321.KHBF28317.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <4333AA7C.9423.12D3CF75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4333F583.14020.13F8D82F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 22 Sep 2005 at 19:33, Susan Harkins wrote: > I need to use a SQL statement. > This works exactly the same as the first example: Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table2.* FROM Table2; " Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " End If End Sub -- Stuart From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 02:51:20 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:51:20 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A kind of Friday humor - Google moon Message-ID: <000d01c5c014$3eb81ee0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> http://moon.google.com/ zoom it in to the max... Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 06:06:45 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:06:45 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 07:37:20 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:37:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <4333F583.14020.13F8D82F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20050923123724.PMSB25845.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I tried the RecordSource property yesterday and got an error -- I'll try again today, maybe I just typed something wrong. Susan H. This works exactly the same as the first example: Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table2.* FROM Table2; " Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " End If End Sub From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Fri Sep 23 08:02:21 2005 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:02:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it 34? Jeffrey F. Demulling Project Manager U.S. Bank Corporate Trust Services 60 Livingston Avenue EP-MN-WS3C St. Paul, MN 55107-2292 Ph: 651-495-3925 Fax: 651-495-8103 email: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com "Gustav Brock" To Sent by: accessd at databaseadvisors.com accessd-bounces at d cc atabaseadvisors.c om Subject Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment 09/23/2005 06:06 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 08:03:09 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:03:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050923130312.PEOE27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think it's pi -- everything evaluates to pi! ;) Susan H. Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Sep 23 08:18:35 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:18:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CDB7@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: 23-Sep-2005 14:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment I think it's pi -- everything evaluates to pi! ;) Susan H. Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 08:27:25 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:27:25 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <004001c5c042$bbb08710$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Gustav, One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers with decimal notation basis - then they will get: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 No clue :( Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and the answer should have two digits?: Given: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 7 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 1 With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit can be made even. It can't be made odd. Target: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 8 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 2 Answer: 41? It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for others to look for the right answer in other areas.... Shamil P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) What is the missing number: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 23 08:59:39 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:59:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A kind of Friday humor - Google moon Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E65@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> My kids have been telling me that for years! Wait until I tell them it's true... Thanks Shamil Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:51 AM To: !DBA-MAIN Subject: [AccessD] OT: A kind of Friday humor - Google moon http://moon.google.com/ zoom it in to the max... Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:23:31 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:23:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Jeffrey Nope. Did you study the hint? /gustav >>> jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com 23-09-2005 15:02:21 >>> Is it 34? Jeffrey F. Demulling Project Manager U.S. Bank Corporate Trust Services 60 Livingston Avenue EP-MN-WS3C St. Paul, MN 55107-2292 Ph: 651-495-3925 Fax: 651-495-8103 email: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com "Gustav Brock" To Sent by: accessd at databaseadvisors.com accessd-bounces at d cc atabaseadvisors.c om Subject Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment 09/23/2005 06:06 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:26:03 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:26:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan That's not the route to chocolates! /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 23-09-2005 15:03:09 >>> I think it's pi -- everything evaluates to pi! ;) Susan H. Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:28:03 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:28:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Tom Not here (you know that) /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 15:18:35 >>> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:29:51 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:29:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil Well, you _have_ a clue. You may wish to read my hint again ... A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> Gustav, One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers with decimal notation basis - then they will get: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 No clue :( Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and the answer should have two digits?: Given: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 7 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 1 With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit can be made even. It can't be made odd. Target: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 8 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 2 Answer: 41? It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for others to look for the right answer in other areas.... Shamil P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) What is the missing number: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Sep 23 09:39:48 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:39:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CDB8@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Apologies. I thought the topic subject was sufficient that I could slip in a little light humour. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: 23-Sep-2005 15:28 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi Tom Not here (you know that) /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 15:18:35 >>> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:57:29 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:57:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Tom Oh, please do. That was not what I meant (you should know that). /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 16:39:48 >>> Apologies. I thought the topic subject was sufficient that I could slip in a little light humour. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: 23-Sep-2005 15:28 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi Tom Not here (you know that) /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 15:18:35 >>> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 10:29:32 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:29:32 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <003f01c5c053$9cba70d0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 11:03:57 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:03:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: <003f01c5c053$9cba70d0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: The first five numbers add up sequentially 1 (1+0), 2 (1+1), 3 (1+2), 4 (1+3), 5 (1+4) but its gets goofy after that, so that can't be it :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 11:16:17 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:16:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil and David You have to tune in on a different channel ... it is really very simple, though a bit unusual. Nothing like weird scancodes. /gustav >>> dmcafee at pacbell.net 23-09-2005 18:03:57 >>> The first five numbers add up sequentially 1 (1+0), 2 (1+1), 3 (1+2), 4 (1+3), 5 (1+4) but its gets goofy after that, so that can't be it :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 11:29:07 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:29:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A woman was shopping at her local supermarket where she selected : A quart of orange juice A half gallon of 2% milk A carton of eggs A head of Romaine lettuce A 2 lb can of coffee and 1 lb of bacon. As she was unloading her items on the conveyor belt to check out, a drunk standing behind her watched as she placed the items in front of the cashier. While the cashier was ringing up the purchases, the drunk calmly stated, "You must be single." The woman was a bit startled by this proclamation, but she was intrigued by the derelicts intuition, since she was indeed single. She looked at her six items on the belt and saw nothing particularly unusual about her selections that could have tipped off the drunk to her marital status. Curiosity getting the better of her, she said "Well, you know what, you're absolutely correct . But how on earth did you know that?" The drunk replied, "Cause you're ugly" From James at fcidms.com Fri Sep 23 12:00:54 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:00:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INA004CZ4LIXGG0@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Sep 23 12:10:18 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:10:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Message-ID: <200509231710.j8NHANT25758@databaseadvisors.com> I'm cleaning shop here and ran across this set of ODBC drivers. "Visigenic ODBC Driverset" the full set with serial number/license. I don't think they are any value in a Windows only environment. If you are developing in an environment of WIndows/Unix they may be of some value. I used to use it for app access to Unix Data. I no longer have a use for them and will ship them out to anyone who thinks they might. Here is a decent description of them: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~webstw/cm/ns_js_ssa/dbconfig.htm John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 12:17:56 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:17:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 12:22:46 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:22:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050923172254.THAY6253.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? ========Well, that was the deal. :) Susan H. From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 12:35:18 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:35:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: my head hurts :( -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Fri Sep 23 12:47:56 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:47:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INA00MXV6RWSSC0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Gustav Well, I don't eat chocolate so Susan is welcome to it. But, you can't have 31 in base 3, that's why the 101 (3^2*1 + 3*0 + 1). Anyway, thanks for the diversion. James -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 12:53:43 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:53:43 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <001e01c5c067$be4b7d70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? Yes, of course. > expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers I was close to the clue experimenting with notation basis :( But James found error in your sequence. And I didn't expect there was one. So the answer is: 10 = 10 (base 10) 11 = 10 (base 9) 12 = 10 (base 8) 13 = 10 (base 7) 14 = 10 (base 6) 20 = 10 (base 5) 22 = 10 (base 4) 101 = 10 (base 3) 1010 = 10 (base 2) Thank you, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi James > > Great! That's it: 1010. > > The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. > The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: > 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. > > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? > > /gustav > > >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> > Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches > would be: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 > > James Barash > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 13:01:57 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:01:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi James and Shamil You are so right, sorry. Proves my inexperience with 3-based numbers!! And that this list knows just about everything. Anyway, this is only for fun! (Are you listening Susan? Or are you trying how to match pi and some chocolate pieces?) /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:47:56 >>> Gustav Well, I don't eat chocolate so Susan is welcome to it. But, you can't have 31 in base 3, that's why the 101 (3^2*1 + 3*0 + 1). Anyway, thanks for the diversion. James -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 13:08:40 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c067$be4b7d70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: Ah, now I get it. Nice explanation Shamil. So what was the answer to the Month problem? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? Yes, of course. > expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers I was close to the clue experimenting with notation basis :( But James found error in your sequence. And I didn't expect there was one. So the answer is: 10 = 10 (base 10) 11 = 10 (base 9) 12 = 10 (base 8) 13 = 10 (base 7) 14 = 10 (base 6) 20 = 10 (base 5) 22 = 10 (base 4) 101 = 10 (base 3) 1010 = 10 (base 2) Thank you, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi James > > Great! That's it: 1010. > > The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. > The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: > 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. > > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? > > /gustav > > >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> > Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches > would be: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 > > James Barash > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Sep 23 13:24:28 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:24:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: A Hitchhiker told me the answer is '42'. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 23 15:07:15 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms Message-ID: <20050923200715.68302.qmail@web81507.mail.yahoo.com> I hope somebody can help with this. How can I set a form so that I can specify the form name passing a variable. strForm = "frmTest" [Forms]!strForm.Visible = True I want to do something like this. The form is reusable. I'm guessing I have to dimension a form variable and then set the object. I'm just not sure how. Thanks, Jeremy Toves From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 23 15:41:49 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:41:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D27BB@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Forms(strForm).Visible = True I.e. you can reference the Forms collection using the name of the form as an index into the collection. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:07 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms I hope somebody can help with this. How can I set a form so that I can specify the form name passing a variable. strForm = "frmTest" [Forms]!strForm.Visible = True I want to do something like this. The form is reusable. I'm guessing I have to dimension a form variable and then set the object. I'm just not sure how. Thanks, Jeremy Toves -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 16:03:54 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:03:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050923210402.VMJM27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Are you listening Susan? Or are you trying how to match pi and some chocolate pieces? =========Pi is chocolate isn't it????????? Susan H. From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 24 01:47:02 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D27BB@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050924064702.99117.qmail@web81508.mail.yahoo.com> That worked great. Thanks, Jeremy "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: Forms(strForm).Visible = True I.e. you can reference the Forms collection using the name of the form as an index into the collection. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:07 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms I hope somebody can help with this. How can I set a form so that I can specify the form name passing a variable. strForm = "frmTest" [Forms]!strForm.Visible = True I want to do something like this. The form is reusable. I'm guessing I have to dimension a form variable and then set the object. I'm just not sure how. Thanks, Jeremy Toves -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 24 03:52:29 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:52:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi David No suggestions yet ... Got one? /gustav >>> dmcafee at pacbell.net 23-09-2005 20:08 >>> So what was the answer to the Month problem? From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 24 03:56:08 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:56:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan To some it is, yes. /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 23-09-2005 23:03 >>> Are you listening Susan? Or are you trying how to match pi and some chocolate pieces? =========Pi is chocolate isn't it????????? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 24 05:58:16 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:58:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil Could it be a 5-based sequence? (10)5 (11)5 (12)5 (13)5 (14)5 (20)5 (22)5 (?)5 (31)5 equals in 10-base: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 (?) 16 Then number that fits in here is 14, thus the missing item in 5-base is 24. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27 >>> P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) What is the missing number: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 From shamil at users.mns.ru Sat Sep 24 13:43:00 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:43:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <002c01c5c137$cb70da60$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Yes, Gustav, it's 5-based sequence. Yes, number that fits is 24 (5) 10 11 12 13 14 || 20 22 (24) 31 10+11 = 21-1 = 20 11+12 = 23-1 = 22 12+13 = 30-1 = 24 <== 13+14 = 32-1 = 31 and so on ... Of course your task was much more interesting... Have nice weekend, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Could it be a 5-based sequence? > > (10)5 (11)5 (12)5 (13)5 (14)5 (20)5 (22)5 (?)5 (31)5 equals in 10-base: > > 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 (?) 16 > > Then number that fits in here is 14, thus the missing item in 5-base is 24. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27 >>> > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Sep 24 15:12:15 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:12:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) to DoCmd.RunCommand In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509242012.j8OKCGT17948@databaseadvisors.com> Is there a web site that precisely documents these translations? I have wasted more than an hour in the Access no-help and MSDN and come up with nothing exhaustive. A few googles turned up nothing as well. In the ideal world, I would like a map of all the old code to the new code (DoCmd.RunCommand). In the immediate situation, I would like to translate these snippets: DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 8, , acMenuVer70 DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 2, , acMenuVer70 DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 5, , acMenuVer70 'Paste Append DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acLast This is the code generated by the "Duplicate Record" wizard in Access 2003. (Well, not the last line, that is mine -- what would be the point of duplicating a record unless you intended to visit it? MS apparently didn't think of that. Go figure. In a high-traffic situation, this last line might not work, I realize. My current problem is low-traffic so that is not an issue. However, if someone has a better method that is scalable, that would be appreciated, too. Since the PK in the table is autonumber, following the Paste command one would need to grab the PK just created then do a Find based on it, I'm thinking... this might circumvent new rows being added by other users in a high-traffic situation... but that is just a guess at the moment.) Back to the main point: can anyone supply a source for replacing the first three lines of code with their DoCmd.RunCommand equivalents? TIA, Arthur From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Sat Sep 24 15:28:55 2005 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:28:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) toDoCmd.RunCommand References: <200509242012.j8OKCGT17948@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000c01c5c146$97463780$0202a8c0@default> Hi Arthur, http://home.clara.net/tkwickenden/ See DoMenuItem conversion ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) toDoCmd.RunCommand > Is there a web site that precisely documents these translations? I have > wasted more than an hour in the Access no-help and MSDN and come up with > nothing exhaustive. A few googles turned up nothing as well. > In the ideal world, I would like a map of all the old code to the new code > (DoCmd.RunCommand). > In the immediate situation, I would like to translate these snippets: > DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 8, , acMenuVer70 > DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 2, , acMenuVer70 > DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 5, , acMenuVer70 'Paste Append > DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acLast > This is the code generated by the "Duplicate Record" wizard in Access 2003. > (Well, not the last line, that is mine -- what would be the point of > duplicating a record unless you intended to visit it? MS apparently didn't > think of that. Go figure. In a high-traffic situation, this last line might > not work, I realize. My current problem is low-traffic so that is not an > issue. However, if someone has a better method that is scalable, that would > be appreciated, too. Since the PK in the table is autonumber, following the > Paste command one would need to grab the PK just created then do a Find > based on it, I'm thinking... this might circumvent new rows being added by > other users in a high-traffic situation... but that is just a guess at the > moment.) > Back to the main point: can anyone supply a source for replacing the first > three lines of code with their DoCmd.RunCommand equivalents? > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Sep 24 18:23:36 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:23:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) toDoCmd.RunCommand In-Reply-To: <000c01c5c146$97463780$0202a8c0@default> Message-ID: <43366C98.30658.1D99EF3B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 24 Sep 2005 at 16:28, Michael R Mattys wrote: > Hi Arthur, > http://home.clara.net/tkwickenden/ Great site. I've just bookmarked it. It will save me a lot of heartache in a current project where I am upgrading quite a few small A97 applications which were written by a "dabbler" and are full macros and "DoCmd.DoMenuItem"s. -- Stuart From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 24 20:23:32 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Message-ID: <20050925012332.52919.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy From Gustav at cactus.dk Sun Sep 25 13:50:06 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:50:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil This one is fine! It demonstrates that not everything is what it looks like. Without the fresh clue on non-10-based numbers it could have tortured me for much longer time. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 24-09-2005 20:43:00 >>> Yes, Gustav, it's 5-based sequence. Yes, number that fits is 24 (5) 10 11 12 13 14 || 20 22 (24) 31 10+11 = 21-1 = 20 11+12 = 23-1 = 22 12+13 = 30-1 = 24 <== 13+14 = 32-1 = 31 and so on ... Of course your task was much more interesting... Have nice weekend, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Could it be a 5-based sequence? > > (10)5 (11)5 (12)5 (13)5 (14)5 (20)5 (22)5 (?)5 (31)5 equals in 10-base: > > 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 (?) 16 > > Then number that fits in here is 14, thus the missing item in 5-base is 24. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27 >>> > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 From ldoering at symphonyinfo.com Sun Sep 25 15:03:23 2005 From: ldoering at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:03:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Message-ID: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Jeremy, Make a BE with the ODBC links to the SQL tables. Link the existing FE to the BE, renaming the links to whatever table names the FE is expecting. It's a double link, so the longest possible way around, but it should make all the pieces work together. Good luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:47 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sun Sep 25 19:12:16 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:12:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing fields to normalize data References: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Message-ID: ..given a record containing the following data: (from a legacy DOS app) field name: EMSID field type: long record data: 44318 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#1) field type: text record data: 649/651/ 748/ 750 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#2) field type: text record data: 653/655/ 657/ 659/ 752/ 754/ 756/ 1358 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#3) field type: text record data: DF-7/DF-8 ..I need to make a new table with the following data structure: (sort order is immaterial) EMSID BoothNum 44318 649 44318 651 44318 748 44318 750 44318 653 44318 655 44318 657 44318 659 44318 752 44318 754 44318 756 44318 1358 44318 DF-7 44318 DF-8 ..I know I've done this before but it was back in the days when my brain cells weren't full of plaque :( ..I've racked my remaining shreds and tried dozens of supposed solutions and am now throwing things at the wall ...some stick :( ..will some poor soul here take mercy on me and end my misery ...other than by shooting me? William ...working waaaaaay too late on a Sunday after watching my Dolphins win today by the hair in their teeth :) From fahooper at trapo.com Sun Sep 25 19:23:27 2005 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:23:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL In-Reply-To: <20050925012332.52919.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003601c5c230$84d1fc20$2e01a8c0@fredxp> I'd say that the quickest solution would be to use a search/replace program for the table names (they don't work in the code, so you'd need to do that with Access' search/replace). The only one I have experience with is Speed Ferret which also works with SQL Server, although it's probably the most costly. This would change all the table references inside queries, reports, etc. Fred Hooper -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 25 22:24:00 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL In-Reply-To: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Message-ID: <20050926032400.25649.qmail@web81502.mail.yahoo.com> Liz, My email was a little confusing. The naming problems are with fields in the table. The table names are fine. I appreciate the effort. Thanks, Jeremy Liz Doering wrote: Jeremy, Make a BE with the ODBC links to the SQL tables. Link the existing FE to the BE, renaming the links to whatever table names the FE is expecting. It's a double link, so the longest possible way around, but it should make all the pieces work together. Good luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:47 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 25 22:26:50 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL In-Reply-To: <003601c5c230$84d1fc20$2e01a8c0@fredxp> Message-ID: <20050926032650.10328.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> I'm taking a look into that. I noticed another Access database for a different customer with a SQL backend. It works with the spaces in the field names. I'm not sure if that is a driver issue or what. I'll check out the search and replace. I'll have to load the tables with underscores and run the search and replace to update field references in all of the database objects. Thanks, Jeremy Fred Hooper wrote: I'd say that the quickest solution would be to use a search/replace program for the table names (they don't work in the code, so you'd need to do that with Access' search/replace). The only one I have experience with is Speed Ferret which also works with SQL Server, although it's probably the most costly. This would change all the table references inside queries, reports, etc. Fred Hooper -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Sep 26 07:42:57 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:12:57 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing fields to normalize data References: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Message-ID: <007a01c5c297$ea4a8650$b51865cb@winxp> William, Sample subroutine given below should be able to get the needful done. T_A is the source table with fields with fields named EMSID (number type), Booth_1, Booth_2 and Booth_3 (all text type), while T_B is the target table with fields EMSID (number type) and BoothNum (text type). The procedure will take care of all fields in series identified by "Booth_" in the source table (i.e. even if more or less than three). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ==================================== Sub Normalize() Dim rst1 As DAO.Recordset, rst2 As DAO.Recordset Dim fd As DAO.Field Dim Txt As String, Rtv As Variant, Cnt As Long Set rst1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("T_A") Set rst2 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("T_B") Do While Not rst1.EOF For Each fd In rst1.Fields If Left(fd.Name, 6) = "Booth_" Then Txt = fd.Value Txt = Replace(Txt, Space(1), "") Rtv = Split(Txt, "/") For Cnt = LBound(Rtv) To UBound(Rtv) With rst2 .AddNew .Fields("EMSID") = rst1.Fields("EMSID") .Fields("BoothNum") = Rtv(Cnt) .Update End With Next End If Next rst1.MoveNext Loop rst1.Close rst2.Close Set rst1 = Nothing Set rst2 = Nothing Set fd = Nothing End Sub ==================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: William Hindman To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 05:42 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing fields to normalize data ..given a record containing the following data: (from a legacy DOS app) field name: EMSID field type: long record data: 44318 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#1) field type: text record data: 649/651/ 748/ 750 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#2) field type: text record data: 653/655/ 657/ 659/ 752/ 754/ 756/ 1358 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#3) field type: text record data: DF-7/DF-8 ..I need to make a new table with the following data structure: (sort order is immaterial) EMSID BoothNum 44318 649 44318 651 44318 748 44318 750 44318 653 44318 655 44318 657 44318 659 44318 752 44318 754 44318 756 44318 1358 44318 DF-7 44318 DF-8 ..I know I've done this before but it was back in the days when my brain cells weren't full of plaque :( ..I've racked my remaining shreds and tried dozens of supposed solutions and am now throwing things at the wall ...some stick :( ..will some poor soul here take mercy on me and end my misery ...other than by shooting me? William ...working waaaaaay too late on a Sunday after watching my Dolphins win today by the hair in their teeth :) From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 26 08:46:58 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:46:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: I am trying to build a pass through query to add a column to a table in SQL Server. For the ODBC Connect Str I added the text from the Connect field in the MSysObjects table after the ODBC; that is already in the field giving me the following ODBC;DSN=Forceast;Description=Forceast;APP=Microsoft Office 2003;WSID=KAUPCHE1-TX;DATABASE=Forecast;Trusted_Connection=Yes The SQL statement I used is as follows: ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) I can open the table fine from the table window. What am I missing here. THANKS! Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon Sep 26 09:00:05 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:00:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677233786B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> That was four days I wouldn't wish on anyone. Although we had some damage and no electricity for 2 days, fortunately the worst part of the storm missed us. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:dejpolsys at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Rita ..time for a quick trip to tica land? ...take care of your family, eh. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Accessd (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita > We are shut down until Monday and I will be hunkering down at home here 40 > mi north of Galveston. I was in Alicia and Allison but this one looks > worse > by a factor of ten. See ya'll Monday (hopefully) > Jim Hale > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ldoering at symphonyinfo.com Mon Sep 26 09:08:16 2005 From: ldoering at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:08:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Message-ID: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343D@dewey.Symphony.local> Jeremy, That's what I get for replying with a severe head cold. Fred's way is your best bet. Good Luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 10:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Liz, My email was a little confusing. The naming problems are with fields in the table. The table names are fine. I appreciate the effort. Thanks, Jeremy Liz Doering wrote: Jeremy, Make a BE with the ODBC links to the SQL tables. Link the existing FE to the BE, renaming the links to whatever table names the FE is expecting. It's a double link, so the longest possible way around, but it should make all the pieces work together. Good luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:47 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 26 09:13:34 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:13:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677233786B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <20050926141333.QOFR15457.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Welcome back Jim -- we're glad to hear from you. :) Susan H. That was four days I wouldn't wish on anyone. Although we had some damage and no electricity for 2 days, fortunately the worst part of the storm missed us. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 26 09:16:33 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050926141635.QPYT15457.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Mon Sep 26 09:22:01 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:22:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003 to SQL:ADO Message-ID: <200509261422.j8QEMkT06024@databaseadvisors.com> Cross posted to the DBA SQL list Hi All Can someone give me a quick rundown or point me to a ref. on the INSERT and UPDATE abilities using ADO. I vaguely remember the differences between ADO and DAO INSERT and UPDATE etc were substantial As in...you couldn't (do one or the other) using ADO - Is that correct? Many thanks Darren _________________________ Darren DICK TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au W: www.tripledee.com.au From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 26 09:27:50 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:27:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 26 09:40:18 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050926144025.NSYJ25845.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm sorry -- I should've caught that. I really don't think that including COLUMN should return an error -- I think T-SQL will interpret ADD COLUMN and ADD. A Double is float -- try that,. . Susan H. You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. From James at fcidms.com Mon Sep 26 09:43:59 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:43:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INF00F42I9BYJ30@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> There is no data type DOUBLE in SQL Server. Try changing that to float. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 26 09:53:34 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:53:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: Thanks for the help. That got the query to work. I should have checked into SQL server data types. That's what happens when engineers put me outside my comfort zone. Now another question if I may. Is there a way to tell if a SQL server or Oracle link is to a table or a view? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server There is no data type DOUBLE in SQL Server. Try changing that to float. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Sep 26 10:38:38 2005 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A154F81E9@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Chester, In Access 97: If you go into design view of the table in question, then view the table properties (View menu, Properties option). The Description line in the properties box shows the connection properties of the table including the table/view you are connected to. I find it helpful to open a Zoom window on that line (Shift+F2 when it is selected). Another way is to view the system tables (Tools menu, Options option, View tab, click on System Objects). The MSysObjects table will have a Connect column with the same database connection information then the ForeignName column tells the table/view. You can only view the information in these places, you can't change the settings. HTH Rusty -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Thanks for the help. That got the query to work. I should have checked into SQL server data types. That's what happens when engineers put me outside my comfort zone. Now another question if I may. Is there a way to tell if a SQL server or Oracle link is to a table or a view? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server There is no data type DOUBLE in SQL Server. Try changing that to float. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Sep 26 11:58:39 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:58:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003 to SQL:ADO References: <200509261422.j8QEMkT06024@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <433828BF.8050706@shaw.ca> I keep forgetting about this source of info on ADO for VBA code You should get the MDAC SDK includes ADO help files ado260.chm Available from downloads area at http:\\www.microsoft.com/data It maybe available on WinXP by default so check first. Not sure if there are higher help versions for MDAC 2.8 or file uses the same name. It installs to here, I then create a desktop shortcut C:\Program Files\Microsoft Data Access SDK\Docs\ado260.chm Open up tree menus ADOProgrammersReference-->ADO API reference --> ADO Code Examples --> Visual Basic Examples Methods and Properties Code examples AddNew Method Example Append and CreateParameter Methods Example AppendChunk and GetChunk Methods Example BeginTrans, CommitTrans, and RollbackTrans Methods Example Cancel Method Example Clone Method Example CompareBookmarks Method Example ConvertToString Method Example CopyRecord, CopyTo, and SaveToFile Methods Example CreateRecordset Method Example Delete Method Example DeleteRecord and MoveRecord Methods Example Execute, Requery, and Clear Methods Example Find Method Example GetRows Method Example GetString Method Example and so on.... or this help file, not as useful for vba unless working with SQL Sever it comes from SQL BOL download C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server Books Online\1033\adosql.chm Darren DICK wrote: >Cross posted to the DBA SQL list > >Hi All >Can someone give me a quick rundown or point me to a ref. on the INSERT and >UPDATE abilities using ADO. >I vaguely remember the differences between ADO and DAO INSERT and UPDATE etc >were substantial >As in...you couldn't (do one or the other) using ADO - Is that correct? > >Many thanks > >Darren > >_________________________ >Darren DICK >TripleDee Databases >T: 0424 696 433 >E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au >W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KIsmert at texassystems.com Mon Sep 26 12:30:10 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:30:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: >>However with Access cracking tools in wide >>spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. The mde format appears to be a very poor choice for distributing applications. See Alex Dybenko: More stuff to convert MDE to MDB http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2005/01/more-staff-to-convert-mde-to-mdb.htm l [Access] QBuilt reverse engineers MDE http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2004/10/access-qbuilt-reverse-engineers-mde. html I've read they can even get your complete source code back. I hate to see the talented developers and entrepreneurs on this list risking the fruits of their labors with a format that Microsoft can't seem to make work in any practical sense. One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform. I would strongly suggest that if you're seriously trying to make a business of selling software, and your product is Access-based, you should move your app to another, better suited, platform. -Ken From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Sep 26 13:11:19 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:11:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar Message-ID: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more likely to see them. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From artful at rogers.com Mon Sep 26 13:36:09 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Run-Time Error 2051: The OpenForm Action Was Canceled In-Reply-To: <000c01c5c146$97463780$0202a8c0@default> Message-ID: <200509261836.j8QIaDT32065@databaseadvisors.com> The line throwing the error simply tries to open the form: DoCmd.OpenForm "myForm" This wasn't happening an hour ago. Any idea where I ought to look to see what is going wrong? TIA, Arthur From artful at rogers.com Mon Sep 26 13:48:42 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:48:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Run-Time Error 2051: The OpenForm Action Was Canceled In-Reply-To: <200509261836.j8QIaDT32065@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509261848.j8QImkT04301@databaseadvisors.com> I found the problem, but it had nothing to do with OnOpen. Strange creature, this Access 2003. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: September 26, 2005 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Run-Time Error 2051: The OpenForm Action Was Canceled The line throwing the error simply tries to open the form: DoCmd.OpenForm "myForm" This wasn't happening an hour ago. Any idea where I ought to look to see what is going wrong? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon Sep 26 14:14:01 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:14:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D29F1@xlivmbx21.aig.com> "One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform." But AFIK .NET pCode is almost human readable, and certainly very easy to reverse engineer. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >>However with Access cracking tools in wide >>spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. The mde format appears to be a very poor choice for distributing applications. See Alex Dybenko: More stuff to convert MDE to MDB http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2005/01/more-staff-to-convert-mde-to-mdb.htm l [Access] QBuilt reverse engineers MDE http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2004/10/access-qbuilt-reverse-engineers-mde. html I've read they can even get your complete source code back. I hate to see the talented developers and entrepreneurs on this list risking the fruits of their labors with a format that Microsoft can't seem to make work in any practical sense. One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform. I would strongly suggest that if you're seriously trying to make a business of selling software, and your product is Access-based, you should move your app to another, better suited, platform. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon Sep 26 14:22:44 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:22:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File Message-ID: Anyone have a routine to create a text file and write to that text file? I have the routine to create the strings to be added. Now I just need to create a text file and then write each string to that file. There could be anywhere from 1 to 250 strings to be added and each needs to be its own line. Actually what I'm making is a fixed length text file. Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 14:38:07 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:38:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? Message-ID: I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound subform. When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form and make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear out for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my backup of the adp, adn I received the following error: There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or reports. Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. For infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net 2003. :( thanks... -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon Sep 26 14:46:47 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:46:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677233787A@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Here is a routine I use to build fixed length strings to upload to the AS400 Jim Hale Function ExportTableToText_TSB(strDatabase As String, strTable As String, strFile As String) As Boolean ' Comments : exports the data from a table to a fixed length text file ' Parameters: strDatabase - path and name of the database to look in or "" (blank string) for the current database ' strTable - name of the table/query containing the data to export ' strFile - name of the file to export to (if it exists, it will first be deleted) ' Returns : True if successful, False otherwise ' Dim dbstmp As Database Dim rstTmp As Recordset Dim intFile As Integer Dim intCounter As Integer Dim strTmp As String On Error GoTo PROC_ERR If strDatabase = "" Then Set dbstmp = CurrentDb() Else Set dbstmp = DBEngine.Workspaces(0).OpenDatabase(strDatabase) End If ' Kill the file if necessary On Error Resume Next Kill strFile On Error GoTo PROC_ERR ' Open the file intFile = FreeFile Open strFile For Output As intFile ' Open the recordset and loop through it Set rstTmp = dbstmp.OpenRecordset(strTable, dbOpenDynaset) With rstTmp Do Until .EOF ' initialize the Tmp string strTmp = "" 'Build the record with fixed length fields For intCounter = 0 To .Fields.Count - 1 Select Case intCounter Case 0 'Company strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 7) Case 1 'GL strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 8) Case 2 'SL strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 5) Case 3 'BYEAR strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 6) Case 4 'BMONTH strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 8) Case 5 'DEPT strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 5) Case 6 'AMT strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & Format(.Fields(intCounter).Value, "###.00"), 14) Case 7 'REPOST strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 6) Case Else 'PLANNO strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 7) End Select Next intCounter Print #intFile, strTmp .MoveNext Loop .Close End With Close #intFile dbstmp.Close ExportTableToText_TSB = True PROC_EXIT: Exit Function PROC_ERR: ExportTableToText_TSB = False Resume PROC_EXIT End Function -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 2:23 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File Anyone have a routine to create a text file and write to that text file? I have the routine to create the strings to be added. Now I just need to create a text file and then write each string to that file. There could be anywhere from 1 to 250 strings to be added and each needs to be its own line. Actually what I'm making is a fixed length text file. Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From RRANTHON at sentara.com Mon Sep 26 15:08:31 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:08:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? Message-ID: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> "any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net 2003." Which could have overwritten an existing .dll housing your ADO. Check your references by looking at any module code window and selecting from the menu bar, tools, references, look for any indicated with a "Missing" note. >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 09/26/05 3:38 PM >>> I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound subform. When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form and make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear out for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my backup of the adp, adn I received the following error: There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or reports. Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. For infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net 2003. :( thanks... -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 15:43:22 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:43:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? In-Reply-To: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: I checked that first, but I do not have any Missing references :( On 9/26/05, Randall R Anthony wrote: > > "any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > 2003." Which could have overwritten an existing .dll housing your ADO. > Check your references by looking at any module code window and selecting > from the menu bar, tools, references, look for any indicated with a > "Missing" note. > > >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 09/26/05 3:38 PM >>> > I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound > subform. > When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form > and > make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear > out > for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my > backup > of the adp, adn I received the following error: > > There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or > reports. > Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. > For > infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. > > any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > 2003. > :( > > thanks... > -- > -Francisco > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 16:08:37 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:08:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? In-Reply-To: References: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: I moved to another PC, and re-imported again from the main .adp and I am receiving the same error. On 9/26/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > I checked that first, but I do not have any Missing references :( > > > On 9/26/05, Randall R Anthony wrote: > > > > "any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > > 2003." Which could have overwritten an existing .dll housing your ADO. > > Check your references by looking at any module code window and selecting > > > > from the menu bar, tools, references, look for any indicated with a > > "Missing" note. > > > > >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 09/26/05 3:38 PM >>> > > I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound > > subform. > > When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form > > and > > make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear > > out > > for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my > > backup > > of the adp, adn I received the following error: > > > > There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or > > reports. > > Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. > > For > > infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. > > > > any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > > 2003. > > :( > > > > thanks... > > -- > > -Francisco > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 26 16:44:19 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:44:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4338F853.2537.24E33C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Sep 2005 at 14:22, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Anyone have a routine to create a text file and write to that text file? > > I have the routine to create the strings to be added. Now I just need to > create a text file and then write each string to that file. There could be > anywhere from 1 to 250 strings to be added and each needs to be its own > line. > Once upon a time this was "bread and butter" to any BASIC programmer. Strange how few people do it these days :-) Function WriteFile(Filename as String) Dim intFile as INteger 'Get next available file handle intFile = FreeFile 'create file (overwrites any exisiting file) Open Filename for Output as intFile Do 'call routine to create next string strLine = ........... 'write to file Print #intFile, strLine Loop Until....... 'Close the file Close #intFile End Function-- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 26 18:26:20 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:26:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: But Lambert, they ARE abandoning it as a serious development platform. In the immortal words of Microsoft, Access is being positioned as a "landing pad for data", not as a database or datastore. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde "One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform." But AFIK .NET pCode is almost human readable, and certainly very easy to reverse engineer. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >>However with Access cracking tools in wide >>spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. The mde format appears to be a very poor choice for distributing applications. See Alex Dybenko: More stuff to convert MDE to MDB http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2005/01/more-staff-to-convert-mde-to-mdb.htm l [Access] QBuilt reverse engineers MDE http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2004/10/access-qbuilt-reverse-engineers-mde. html I've read they can even get your complete source code back. I hate to see the talented developers and entrepreneurs on this list risking the fruits of their labors with a format that Microsoft can't seem to make work in any practical sense. One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform. I would strongly suggest that if you're seriously trying to make a business of selling software, and your product is Access-based, you should move your app to another, better suited, platform. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Sep 27 00:40:24 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:40:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509231710.j8NHANT25758@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> I would like a copy. artful at rogers.com. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 23, 2005 1:10 PM To: _DBA-Tech; _DBA-Access; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set I'm cleaning shop here and ran across this set of ODBC drivers. "Visigenic ODBC Driverset" the full set with serial number/license. I don't think they are any value in a Windows only environment. If you are developing in an environment of WIndows/Unix they may be of some value. I used to use it for app access to Unix Data. I no longer have a use for them and will ship them out to anyone who thinks they might. Here is a decent description of them: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~webstw/cm/ns_js_ssa/dbconfig.htm John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Sep 27 01:00:54 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:00:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509270600.j8R60mT28290@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Arthur, I only have one copy and you're the sole responder so its coming to you. Send your mailing address/instructions to: john at winhaven.net John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set I would like a copy. artful at rogers.com. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 23, 2005 1:10 PM To: _DBA-Tech; _DBA-Access; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set I'm cleaning shop here and ran across this set of ODBC drivers. "Visigenic ODBC Driverset" the full set with serial number/license. I don't think they are any value in a Windows only environment. If you are developing in an environment of WIndows/Unix they may be of some value. I used to use it for app access to Unix Data. I no longer have a use for them and will ship them out to anyone who thinks they might. Here is a decent description of them: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~webstw/cm/ns_js_ssa/dbconfig.htm John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Sep 27 01:05:07 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:05:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D29F1@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 27 02:19:52 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:19:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2003 to SQL:ADO Message-ID: Hi Marty Thanks! >It maybe available on WinXP by default so check first. I haven't it, so I guess it is not. /gustav >>> martyconnelly at shaw.ca 26-09-2005 18:58 >>> I keep forgetting about this source of info on ADO for VBA code You should get the MDAC SDK includes ADO help files ado260.chm Available from downloads area at http:\\www.microsoft.com/data It maybe available on WinXP by default so check first. Not sure if there are higher help versions for MDAC 2.8 or file uses the same name. It installs to here, I then create a desktop shortcut C:\Program Files\Microsoft Data Access SDK\Docs\ado260.chm From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 07:58:50 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:58:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> Hi Arthur: Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it will be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like XML becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw SQL Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 08:56:38 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:56:38 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> Message-ID: <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my intellectual property with their development software then I think they would/should be held libel in a civil court. I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was destined to be open source. BL On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > will > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > XML > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > SQL > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > al. > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > MS > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > the > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > do > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > There > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > apps > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > ago, > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > to > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > mainstream. > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > ADP > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > this > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > same > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > software and nothing more.) > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > that > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > the > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > side > of things. > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 09:21:50 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:21:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <> Actually it says that it allows you to make changes, but not in the existing code because it's compiled. However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else that does say they can de-compile the code. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Boogie Loogie Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my intellectual property with their development software then I think they would/should be held libel in a civil court. I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was destined to be open source. BL On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > will > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > XML > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > SQL > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > al. > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > MS > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > the > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > do > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > There > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > apps > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > ago, > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > to > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > mainstream. > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > ADP > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > this > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > same > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > software and nothing more.) > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > that > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > the > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > side > of things. > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 09:27:43 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:27:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 27 09:54:03 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:54:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <14633124.1127830435929.JavaMail.root@sniper21> Message-ID: <000001c5c373$4df89800$0200a8c0@danwaters> Jim - can you point to the company with this claim? >However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else >that does say they can de-compile the code. > >Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 09:57:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:57:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c5c373$c9a953e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time commitments. The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have .NET available at your fingertips. I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site I am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules that "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net in this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a download. I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 10:05:05 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:05:05 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com><0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. They can only "unlock" forms' and reports' designs. They can't crack the code. Serge Gavrilov a long ago published similar utility for free. A while ago I helped here somebody to get their reports' designs out of .mde. I didn't know that time Serge Gavlilov's utility and I still don't know how Serge Gavrilov and romanian guys get .mde unlocked - I have heard that just one bit have to be patched or something like that. What I did when I helped to get designs out of .mde was just connection to a running MS Access app using Automation and getting all designs into a new database. This is possible since MS Access 95 I think. The similar things can be done with ordinary MS Windows, COM and .NET apps using .DLL injection techniques. All that is well known but have you seen a lot of apps "cracked" this way? > There are obfuscating tools available I think that these obfuscating tools are really good even relatively cheap ones. I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its standard edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with developing similar code from scratch. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boogie Loogie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more > powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However > the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source > code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive > third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly > as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. > > SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my > intellectual property with their development software then I think they > would/should be held libel in a civil court. > > I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file > I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found > http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. > > BL > > On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > > will > > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > > XML > > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > > SQL > > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > > development team to make it one. > > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > > al. > > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access developme nt > > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > > MS > > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > > the > > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > > do > > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > > There > > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > > apps > > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > > ago, > > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > > to > > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > > mainstream. > > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > > ADP > > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > > this > > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > > same > > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > > software and nothing more.) > > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > > that > > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > > the > > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > > side > > of things. > > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > > Arthur > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 10:09:05 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:09:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: For my money, .Net is great! Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. Perhaps the hardest part is figuring out which to choose from among the many option available when you want to do a particular thing. Typed datasets are far handier than either linked or local tables, and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:14:23 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:14:23 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3bf43ee9050927081452679985@mail.gmail.com> On 9/27/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything > I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. > > Charlotte Foust Yes someone else can do it. I just want them to do it from scratch like I did. I do not want them to profit off of my hard work by decompiling and copying. Paranoid - No. Protective over my intellectual property - Yes BL From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:16:52 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:16:52 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <3bf43ee905092708166c96a54c@mail.gmail.com> > I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its > standard > edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. > IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with > developing similar code from scratch. >From what I read I would need the enterprise edition at $1400.00 because I have to embed** .NET Framework dependencies. A little pricy to do something that Microsoft should have done within their development suite. BL From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 10:21:41 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C032@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF01C@ADGSERVER> As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 10:36:00 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:36:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000001c5c373$4df89800$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <004701c5c379$3f9cb1a0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> There is VB decompiler - http://www.vb-decompiler.net/ But looking at its screenshots and examples I'd say it's rather useless for anybody exept hardcore hackers. As far as I can guess VBA code is translated into similar p-code - and if a VBA decompiler exists it will not produce anything more readable than this existing VB decompiler... This VB decompiler seems to have been written by somebody from my country Russia who doesn't want to open his/her name and who writes in English rather badly - you can get more info here: http://vbdecompiler.dotfix.net/ I can be wrong. But anyway I'd use free open source code if I find one or write my own from scratch instead of using such decompilers - I think most of the developers would do the same. Therefore IMO the danger of getting cracked your VB6, VBA and VS.NET applications is rather low... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Jim - can you point to the company with this claim? > > > >However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else > >that does say they can de-compile the code. > > > >Jim. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 10:45:48 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:45:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com><0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com><003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <3bf43ee905092708166c96a54c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005b01c5c37a$89292a50$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> What for do you need to embed .NET Framework dependencies? Once again, I did use standard edition for USD99 for commercial application - it' s good enough to protect the code... HTH, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boogie Loogie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its > > standard > > edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. > > IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with > > developing similar code from scratch. > > > > >From what I read I would need the enterprise edition at $1400.00 because I > have to embed** .NET Framework dependencies. A little pricy to do something > that Microsoft should have done within their development suite. > > BL > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:44:27 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:44:27 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <005b01c5c37a$89292a50$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <3bf43ee905092708166c96a54c@mail.gmail.com> <005b01c5c37a$89292a50$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <3bf43ee9050927084453a7ba07@mail.gmail.com> Ok I will give the cheap version a try. I had been hoping to embed In The Hand ADOCE. On 9/27/05, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > What for do you need to embed .NET Framework dependencies? > > Once again, I did use standard edition for USD99 for commercial > application - it' s good enough to protect the code... > > HTH, > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Boogie Loogie" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its > > > standard > > > edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. > > > IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable > with > > > developing similar code from scratch. > > > > > > > > >From what I read I would need the enterprise edition at $1400.00 > because > I > > have to embed** .NET Framework dependencies. A little pricy to do > something > > that Microsoft should have done within their development suite. > > > > BL > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 10:46:20 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF01C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <001201c5c37a$9aff5ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Tue Sep 27 10:51:31 2005 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:51:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF288@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Hey, Boogie Loogie! Is the hyperlink you gave to: correct? I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" error when I click on the link. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Boogie Loogie Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my intellectual property with their development software then I think they would/should be held libel in a civil court. I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was destined to be open source. BL On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > will > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > XML > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > SQL > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > al. > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > MS > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > the > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > do > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > There > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > apps > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > ago, > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > to > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > mainstream. > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > ADP > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > this > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > same > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > software and nothing more.) > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > that > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > the > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > side > of things. > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 10:51:25 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:51:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: Shamil, I think it's a little more then we've seen in the past; their saying they can make additions to the VBA project and the current MDE via the use of macros (which to me doesn't sound like their doing anything special at all). As a result, the truth may be a different matter. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. They can only "unlock" forms' and reports' designs. They can't crack the code. Serge Gavrilov a long ago published similar utility for free. A while ago I helped here somebody to get their reports' designs out of .mde. I didn't know that time Serge Gavlilov's utility and I still don't know how Serge Gavrilov and romanian guys get .mde unlocked - I have heard that just one bit have to be patched or something like that. What I did when I helped to get designs out of .mde was just connection to a running MS Access app using Automation and getting all designs into a new database. This is possible since MS Access 95 I think. The similar things can be done with ordinary MS Windows, COM and .NET apps using .DLL injection techniques. All that is well known but have you seen a lot of apps "cracked" this way? > There are obfuscating tools available I think that these obfuscating tools are really good even relatively cheap ones. I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its standard edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with developing similar code from scratch. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boogie Loogie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more > powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However > the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source > code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive > third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly > as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. > > SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my > intellectual property with their development software then I think they > would/should be held libel in a civil court. > > I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file > I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found > http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. > > BL > > On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > > will > > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > > XML > > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > > SQL > > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > > development team to make it one. > > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > > al. > > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access developme nt > > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > > MS > > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > > the > > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > > do > > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > > There > > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > > apps > > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > > ago, > > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > > to > > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > > mainstream. > > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > > ADP > > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > > this > > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > > same > > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > > software and nothing more.) > > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > > that > > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > > the > > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > > side > > of things. > > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > > Arthur > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 10:51:25 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:51:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte, << Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. >> That's where I am now with VFP, so hopefully it won't be too much of a leap when the time comes. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For my money, .Net is great! Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. Perhaps the hardest part is figuring out which to choose from among the many option available when you want to do a particular thing. Typed datasets are far handier than either linked or local tables, and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 10:52:14 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:52:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c373$4df89800$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: Dan, in the process of getting the URL, I read more of their comments and it seems like it's not what I first thought, although probably not what you want to hear either. It seems what they are actually doing is reading some of the p-code, then coding themselves to do the "restore" of code. They gleam the framework of the code, procedure names, parameters, variables, etc, then fill in the blanks. I don't doubt it will be long before they have the rest of it. Sounds like a work in progress. Here's the URL: http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/faq.html#HowToRestoreSrcCode Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim - can you point to the company with this claim? >However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else >that does say they can de-compile the code. > >Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Tue Sep 27 11:00:30 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:00:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <001201c5c37a$9aff5ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <0INH003KLGGURI40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:04:39 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:04:39 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF288@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> References: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF288@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <3bf43ee90509270904e54e05@mail.gmail.com> On 9/27/05, Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research < alan.lawhon at us.army.mil> wrote: > > Hey, Boogie Loogie! > > Is the hyperlink you gave to: correct? > > I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" error when I click on the > link. > > Alan C. Lawhon Hi I did not put that link there. It was either done by Gmail or the group. If you want some .Net Goodies: http://www.startvbdotnet.com/ http://www.developerfusion.co.uk/vbnet/ http://www.codeproject.com Google also has a ton of resources just a search away. BL From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:14:25 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:14:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C057@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF020@ADGSERVER> Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:18:47 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:18:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF020@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF021@ADGSERVER> Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:27:18 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:27:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF021@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF022@ADGSERVER> Went back and reread your original post about saying something about the free stuff. Half way down the page that I linked to, it says "Join us for a Launch Tour 2005 event and receive SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.*" Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 11:28:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF021@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <001501c5c380$8304b080$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a major, the nearest of which is over in Boston). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:32:57 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF022@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF024@ADGSERVER> Looks like you might be able to attend it online also. I did not follow the links, but check this out here: http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Went back and reread your original post about saying something about the free stuff. Half way down the page that I linked to, it says "Join us for a Launch Tour 2005 event and receive SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.*" Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 11:33:45 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:33:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001501c5c380$8304b080$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <001a01c5c381$3de0fe40$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Well, I'm registered. Now I just have to remember to go. The end of November is a bit of a ways out for this tired old brain. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a major, the nearest of which is over in Boston). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:34:11 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:34:11 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <0INH003KLGGURI40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <001201c5c37a$9aff5ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <0INH003KLGGURI40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <3bf43ee9050927093433adb9cb@mail.gmail.com> Think I will go to the one in Boston to get my free stuff :) On 9/27/05, James Barash wrote: > > http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list > of > such launch sites? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 27 11:49:08 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:49:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000f01c5c373$c9a953e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <01d601c5c383$6109c710$6501a8c0@HAL9004> John: How does it compare with Access' reporting capabilities? That's one of the things I like most about Access - the way you can generate a fairly complex report quickly. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high > speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. > .Net > is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. > With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time > commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and > indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely > that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing > since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it > is > also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on > my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a > "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in > a > data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type > containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your > properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff > just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a > download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we > like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives > to > Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not > in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved > so > far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I > don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot > help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as > heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will > continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul > within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure > conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am > slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 27 11:53:59 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:53:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <31631621.1127833657733.JavaMail.root@sniper21> Message-ID: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 27 11:55:14 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:55:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <20306380.1127837063056.JavaMail.root@sniper17> Message-ID: <000401c5c384$3b815c00$0200a8c0@danwaters> I will go to the one in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 27 11:58:16 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:58:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <023601c5c384$a8069430$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Is .NET included in VS 2005? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue Sep 27 12:00:59 2005 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:00:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: I think I will be making the jump across the river. Jeffrey F. Demulling Project Manager U.S. Bank Corporate Trust Services 60 Livingston Avenue EP-MN-WS3C St. Paul, MN 55107-2292 Ph: 651-495-3925 Fax: 651-495-8103 email: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com "Dan Waters" To Sent by: "'Access Developers discussion and accessd-bounces at d problem solving'" atabaseadvisors.c om cc Subject 09/27/2005 11:53 Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, AM .NET and SQL Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From KIsmert at texassystems.com Tue Sep 27 12:05:33 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:05:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >>But AFIK .NET pCode is almost human readable, and >>certainly very easy to reverse engineer. You have a good point, Lambert, and that prompted me to do some quick research: .NET programs are compiled to MSIL (a kind of p-Code) a common Intermediate Language which is then executed by the Common Language Runtime (CLR). MSIL is stored in .NET assemblies, which, along with descriptive metadata, are both housed in the DLL and EXE files produced by .NET compilers. The CLR converts MSIL to machine code using a JIT compiler at execution time. Because MSIL is a fairly straightforward conversion of a higher-level language, it is easy to decompile, especially with the help of the metadata. However, Code Obfuscators exist which will protect the internals of your code. In fact, Visual Studio .NET 2003 and 2005 ship with basic obfuscators. So, you are right, .NET is not secure 'out of the box'. But, there are well known ways to secure your code. The level of security you want will determine how much money and effort you are willing to spend. Certainly, there is a tug-of-war between obfuscator and the decompiler technology. But, at least in .NET you can get a reasonable level of security for your hard-won code. With Access, there is nothing beyond the unacceptably insecure mde format. And that seems unlikely to improve. -Ken References: Intellectual Property Protection and Code Obfuscation http://www.15seconds.com/issue/040310.htm Decompiling .NET Assemblies http://aspnet.4guysfromrolla.com/demos/printPage.aspx?path=/articles/080 404-1.aspx From karenr7 at oz.net Tue Sep 27 12:09:28 2005 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:09:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF024@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <200509271709.j8RH9QT15329@databaseadvisors.com> I just signed up for the session in Seattle in November. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Looks like you might be able to attend it online also. I did not follow the links, but check this out here: http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Went back and reread your original post about saying something about the free stuff. Half way down the page that I linked to, it says "Join us for a Launch Tour 2005 event and receive SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.*" Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at outbaktech.com Tue Sep 27 12:24:34 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:24:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 13:01:53 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:01:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C09F@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF027@ADGSERVER> Yes Rocky, it is .Net 2.0 that you have been hearing about. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is .NET included in VS 2005? Rocky From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Sep 27 13:00:42 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:00:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <200509271801.j8RI1FT19587@databaseadvisors.com> As far as i can tell its .NET all they way at MS. I think intregration with Sharepoint will be the way office and access will go lot of xml as well. I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. Martin From adtp at touchtelindia.net Tue Sep 27 13:00:36 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:30:36 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c71865cb@winxp> Rocky, Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the active one. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code module for Pop Up Form ================================ ' Declarations Section Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long -------------------------------------------------------- Private Sub CmdNext_Click() DoCmd.Echo False Me.Visible = False BringWindowToTop RepHdw DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow SendKeys "{DOWN}", True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 Me.Visible = True BringWindowToTop FrmHdw DoCmd.Echo True End Sub Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() DoCmd.Echo False Me.Visible = False BringWindowToTop RepHdw DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow SendKeys "{UP}", True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 Me.Visible = True BringWindowToTop FrmHdw DoCmd.Echo True End Sub Private Sub Form_Activate() DoCmd.Restore End Sub Private Sub Form_Load() RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd FrmHdw = Me.hwnd End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar Dear List: I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more likely to see them. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 13:11:50 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:11:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Crystal Reports ships with VS.Net but many of us use 3rd party reporting tools. Our office uses DataDynamics' ActiveReports, which is very reminiscent of Access reports and even has a wizard to convert Access reports. Still takes some hand work, but not bad. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL John: How does it compare with Access' reporting capabilities? That's one of the things I like most about Access - the way you can generate a fairly complex report quickly. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have > high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the > books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I > have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, > huge time commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, > and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS > "greatest thing since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but > it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you > register on my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web > site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call > a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. > Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of > that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. > As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much > stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there > for a download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my > way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether > we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for > alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact > that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as > a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal > interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and > Access->certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are > not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has > achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak > directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a > long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various > powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they > tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure > conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of > their software and nothing more.) I am slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 13:16:49 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:16:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Jim, You, of all people, will have no problem with .Net! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Charlotte, << Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. >> That's where I am now with VFP, so hopefully it won't be too much of a leap when the time comes. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For my money, .Net is great! Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. Perhaps the hardest part is figuring out which to choose from among the many option available when you want to do a particular thing. Typed datasets are far handier than either linked or local tables, and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 13:17:42 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:17:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509271801.j8RI1FT19587@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050927181741.HIPF27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. =========True. Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 13:27:02 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:27:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050927181741.HIPF27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001b01c5c391$0ea78120$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> JET IS NOT DEAD. As long as developers are allowed to get at the objects in Access programmatically, JET is the library that performs that magic. JET will not be enhanced for versions up through Access 2003. A branch has been assigned (transferred, given) to the Access dev team and they will continue to enhance and maintain that branch for future releases of Access. Or so I am told, second hand. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. =========True. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 27 13:28:19 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:28:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 27-09-2005 20:17:42 >>> I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. =========True. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 13:36:37 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:36:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C0D2@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF029@ADGSERVER> But Active reports is expensive. Do you use it for personal use or at work? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Crystal Reports ships with VS.Net but many of us use 3rd party reporting tools. Our office uses DataDynamics' ActiveReports, which is very reminiscent of Access reports and even has a wizard to convert Access reports. Still takes some hand work, but not bad. Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 13:38:58 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:38:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what we've known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for backward compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I don't want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new technologies when what I've got works just fine. Susan H. Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? From word_diva at hotmail.com Tue Sep 27 13:44:40 2005 From: word_diva at hotmail.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:44:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: I'm going to Newark on Dec. 1st. Nancy Lytle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:54 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches > in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Sep 27 13:54:32 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:54:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what > we've > known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for > backward > compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I > don't > want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new > technologies when what I've got works just fine. > > Susan H. > > Hi Susan > > Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 27 14:03:36 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:03:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... /gustav >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 27-09-2005 20:54:32 >>> All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what > we've > known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for > backward > compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I > don't > want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new > technologies when what I've got works just fine. > > Susan H. > > Hi Susan > > Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 14:16:18 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:16:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin From artful at rogers.com Tue Sep 27 14:22:25 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:22:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> Message-ID: <200509271922.j8RJMST19039@databaseadvisors.com> Undoubtedly we are getting older. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 27, 2005 8:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Arthur: Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it will be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like XML becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw SQL Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? Jim From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 14:34:00 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:34:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 27 14:38:24 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:38:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <031c01c5c39b$0666e140$6501a8c0@HAL9004> I'm signed up for Anaheim, December 6. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 14:40:34 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:40:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: Something a little more direct: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/features/2005/09-13Office12-Access _lg.jpg Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 14:42:54 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, <> Same can be said for VFP as well. Versions 6,7,8, and 9 all had major enhancements. "Version 10" seems to be nothing more then a bunch of small add-ons and is rumored to be the last release for VFP. It's .Net, .Net, .Net and nothing but. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 14:47:35 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:47:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c5c39c$4ebde730$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Something a little more direct: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/features/2005/09-13Office12-Access _lg.jpg Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 15:27:13 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:27:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000f01c5c373$c9a953e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <0INH00B2ZST8SO@l-daemon> Hi John: Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the same??? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time commitments. The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have .NET available at your fingertips. I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site I am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules that "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net in this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a download. I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 15:37:32 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:37:32 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000a01c5c3a3$4b0743a0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <<< The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more >>> Yes, MS Office(VBA) probably not. But Visual Studio Tools for Office(VSTO) are very good to develop MS Office add-ins etc. And they (VSTO) are getting better with every new version of VS.NET. Last autumn I did make convertion of several MS Excel VBA add-ins into VSTO VB.NET MS Excel Add-ins. That wasn't a big challenge. So I suppose that MS Office Add-ins/third-party Office Automatuon tools will exist as long as MS Office exists and because MS Office is a "cash cow" for MS then they promise to exist for a long time... I guess MS Access Object model will not "die" and it will be supported as long as new MS Access versions will be released - it shouldn't be a rocket science programming to write VB.NET/C# code to handle MS Access forms properties and events in .NET class libraries - so anybody who has stable MS Access customers who don't plan to migrate to something else may well keep developing in MS Access and .NET.... Well, this would be probably not the recommended by MS "mixture" but possible solution. Somebody may call it too tricky to be true but it should work... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly > developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to > be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at > all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and > completely different. > > Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause > "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the > replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things > with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers > etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you > got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. > > Get out now while the gettin's good. > > My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS > pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of > companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a > dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a > clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. > > Just my opinion. > > I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my > services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily > move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to > VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the > emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, > VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever > again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) > application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in > the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so > it will be a good tradeoff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I > think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the > new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in > > talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the > Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but > > thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer > > be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear > > the new engine woudl work with JET. > > I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want > > to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and > have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up > what they think. > > > Martin > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:11:16 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:11:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4339C384.2030705@shaw.ca> Actually ADP is being dropped it won't hook into SQL Server 2005 unless the SQL Server 2005 is installed in degraded SQL 2000 mode. You can still uses ADO from an MDB to get at SQL 2005 But SQL DMO is being replaced by SMO. which maybe part of the cause. Mary Chipman mentioned this. I can repost from her blog. I think that MDB format is being dropped from Office 12 actually the whole Jet engine may be replaced by something called ACE. but it will be backward compatible. Maybe something to do with new LINQ language, but this is a wild guess. I just got another call for a contract on JCL REXX IMS DB2, if it is any consolation. I usually go to these sites and ask for access to the IBM Redbooks and the reply is usually,"What??" These guys still think Lyndon Johnson is president. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a >serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access >development team to make it one. >The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with >Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will >regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. >We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development >team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS >either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. >I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them >personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this >product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the >money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. >This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do >things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There >will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps >to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, >when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which >revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to >step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET >converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned >by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS >mainstream. >The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP >project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this >will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside >Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same >way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is >pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their >software and nothing more.) >I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that >way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that >delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see >that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the >table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and >thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side >of things. >Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:24:01 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:24:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <001a01c5c381$3de0fe40$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4339C681.4080505@shaw.ca> They will usually send you a reminder a day or two beforehand , in Canada, they get you to printout a barcoded admission ticket. John W. Colby wrote: >Well, I'm registered. Now I just have to remember to go. The end of >November is a bit of a ways out for this tired old brain. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:29 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a major, >the nearest of which is over in Boston). > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? > >Bobby > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:40:01 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:40:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> <023601c5c384$a8069430$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <4339CA41.5020009@shaw.ca> http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/default.aspx Here you can get the Beta Versions of SQL Express and 2005, Visual VB 2005 ,C##, Java## Web Developer (aka asp.net) etc, Downloads are large 300 Megs. Do NOT install Beta SQL Server 2005 or Express on same machine as SQL 2000 or MSDE There are dll incompatiblities especially DMO. Bad things will happen. All these beta versions time expire April 2006. Here is the SQL Express Blog on connecting Access 2003 or VB6 to SQL Express http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/category/6103.aspx You will also need .Net framework version 1.1 installed for above to run Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Is .NET included in VS 2005? > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > >>I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? >> >>Dan Waters >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >>As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in >>November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular >>edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. >> >>Bobby >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 17:40:38 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:40:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <20050927224038.LVHJ27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The warning I received was more in step with support (like writing). I was told to expect a substantial learning curve and if I insisted on upgrading any existing books, to be prepared for a lot of work. Susan H. All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 17:42:01 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:42:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050927224200.LVSH27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:45:00 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:45:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> <023601c5c384$a8069430$6501a8c0@HAL9004> <4339CA41.5020009@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4339CB6C.7010303@shaw.ca> I guess you will also need this little thingamjig, it was released later. Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express Manager - Community Technology Preview (CTP) June 2005 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C7A5CC62-EC54-4299-85FC-BA05C181ED55&displaylang=en MartyConnelly wrote: >http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/default.aspx >Here you can get the Beta Versions of SQL Express and 2005, Visual VB >2005 ,C##, Java## >Web Developer (aka asp.net) etc, Downloads are large 300 Megs. > >Do NOT install Beta SQL Server 2005 or Express on same machine as SQL >2000 or MSDE >There are dll incompatiblities especially DMO. Bad things will happen. > >All these beta versions time expire April 2006. > >Here is the SQL Express Blog on connecting Access 2003 or VB6 to SQL Express >http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/category/6103.aspx > >You will also need .Net framework version 1.1 installed for above to run > > >Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > > >>Is .NET included in VS 2005? >> >>Rocky >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Dan Waters" >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? >>> >>>Dan Waters >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>>As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in >>>November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular >>>edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. >>> >>>Bobby >>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 17:50:25 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:50:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339CB6C.7010303@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050927225024.LZIC27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The tools that have been promised forever or now on ice. Susan H. I guess you will also need this little thingamjig, it was released later. Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express Manager - Community Technology Preview (CTP) June 2005 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C7A5CC62-EC54-4299- 85FC-BA05C181ED55&displaylang=en From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 18:02:17 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:02:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <4339CF79.6090608@shaw.ca> Well Sharepoint or WSS sits on top of SQL Server, you can send Access 2003 tables to WSS "lists" directly via a bit of vba code and edit them via the web. If you see Sharepoint Lists, think Access tables. I still don't know how you do referential integrity or multi list queries in WSS. On my todo lists. The code is fairly simple to swap Access tables to WSS back and forth. I think you can do this with lower forms of Access too. The following example exports the contents of the Customers table to a new list named Customer List on the "http://example/WSSSite" Windows SharePoint Services site. DoCmd.TransferDatabase transfertype:=acExport, databasetype:="WSS", _ databasename:="http://example/WSSSite", _ objecttype:=acTable, Source:="Customers", _ Destination:="Customer List", structureonly:=False Martin Reid wrote: >All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I >think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the >new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in >talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the >Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but >thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer >be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear >the new engine woudl work with JET. > >I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want >to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and >have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up >what they think. > > >Martin > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Susan Harkins" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:38 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > >>Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what >>we've >>known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for >>backward >>compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I >>don't >>want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new >>technologies when what I've got works just fine. >> >>Susan H. >> >>Hi Susan >> >>Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 18:31:31 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:31:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <20050927225024.LZIC27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4339D653.5040800@shaw.ca> Ah you may have to start progamming for one of these http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/5/palm.mspx Microsoft Mobile on a TREO phone Coming in 2006, might supplant the Blackberry Susan Harkins wrote: >The tools that have been promised forever or now on ice. > >Susan H. > >I guess you will also need this little thingamjig, it was released later. > >Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express Manager - Community Technology Preview >(CTP) June 2005 >http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C7A5CC62-EC54-4299- >85FC-BA05C181ED55&displaylang=en > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 18:42:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:42:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Work only. If I were building reports at home, I'd just use CR, whether I liked it or not. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL But Active reports is expensive. Do you use it for personal use or at work? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Crystal Reports ships with VS.Net but many of us use 3rd party reporting tools. Our office uses DataDynamics' ActiveReports, which is very reminiscent of Access reports and even has a wizard to convert Access reports. Still takes some hand work, but not bad. Charlotte Foust -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 18:48:25 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 18:54:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:54:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INH00B2ZST8SO@l-daemon> Message-ID: <002301c5c3be$df0d23b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites can be skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just added a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, but I am not yet up on how to do it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi John: Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the same??? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time commitments. The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have .NET available at your fingertips. I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site I am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules that "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net in this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a download. I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and Access->certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 18:56:50 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:56:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339C681.4080505@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <002401c5c3bf$20ec63e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I have a printed ticket hanging on my fridge. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL They will usually send you a reminder a day or two beforehand , in Canada, they get you to printout a barcoded admission ticket. John W. Colby wrote: >Well, I'm registered. Now I just have to remember to go. The end of >November is a bit of a ways out for this tired old brain. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:29 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a >major, the nearest of which is over in Boston). > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? > >Bobby > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 18:58:40 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:58:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: <4339DCB0.8080106@shaw.ca> Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) >>> >>> > >What? There's a difference?? > >Charlotte > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Sep 27 19:22:59 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:22:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <49k06j$894947@mxip28a.cluster1.charter.net> I will drink to that, Susan. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what we've known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for backward compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I don't want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new technologies when what I've got works just fine. Susan H. Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Sep 27 19:24:13 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:24:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4e8oko$1garopt@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Definitely NOT prepared for this.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Sep 27 19:25:32 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:25:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050927224200.LVSH27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4cin1p$1ftlsal@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> OK...I'm really GLAD I'm technically retired. I've done my learning curve...no more, pleeeeeeeeeease.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 19:34:56 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:34:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Are you saying there's no difference between computer users and mushrooms?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) >>> >>> > >What? There's a difference?? > >Charlotte > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drboz at pacbell.net Tue Sep 27 19:48:55 2005 From: drboz at pacbell.net (Don Bozarth) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:48:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: <001701c5c3c6$682f2bf0$6b01a8c0@don> hmmmm Keep them in the dark and feed them bulls**t???? Don B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Are you saying there's no difference between computer users and > mushrooms?? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. > > Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >>>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >>> > >>> > > > >What? There's a difference?? > > > >Charlotte > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > > > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I > > >now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > > >Susan H. > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Sep 27 23:29:13 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:29:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFD@main2.marlow.com> Yes, you can get away with telling a child to stand in the corner! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [SMTP:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Sep 27 23:35:17 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:35:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFE@main2.marlow.com> Make that two, bartender! I still use VB 6.0, ASP, and Access 97. I don't think I'll ever use anything other then an Access 97 .mdb for database use with a VB or ASP front end. I've played around with VB.NET, and honestly, I prefer VB 6. I like the inheritance, but that doesn't make up for the framework, C like compile processes, etc. I program almost everything with Classes anyhow, so VB.NET was not that much change in how I program, just had to get used to the different syntax. Thought some things were a bit stupid, though. There were tooltips for some things that should have just autocorrected. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Dian [SMTP:nd500_lo at charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I will drink to that, Susan. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what we've known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for backward compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I don't want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new technologies when what I've got works just fine. Susan H. Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Wed Sep 28 02:09:07 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:09:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <000401c5c384$3b815c00$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 27 September 2005 17:55 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch I will go to the one in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 28 06:35:13 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:35:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C176@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF030@ADGSERVER> I have not seen anything. I'll let you know id I do. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland (ISHARP) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 28 06:53:00 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:53:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C198@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF031@ADGSERVER> Here ya go! http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windowsserversystem/launchtour/default.mspx Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch I have not seen anything. I'll let you know id I do. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland (ISHARP) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Wed Sep 28 07:05:01 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:05:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF031@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: Thanks Bobby....What would I do without this group at times -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: 28 September 2005 12:53 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Here ya go! http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windowsserversystem/launchtour/default.mspx Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch I have not seen anything. I'll let you know id I do. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland (ISHARP) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 07:26:54 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:26:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Syracuse, NY on 11/8. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 07:41:45 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:41:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339DCB0.8080106@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050928124222.ZTVI3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sounds about right -- all the children's authors I know have "real" jobs -- can't make a living writing for children. :( Susan H. Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 07:41:46 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:41:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050928124229.ZTWK3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Too funny -- well, the publishers think there's a difference and my bank account certainly KNOWS there's a difference. Susan H. >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 07:44:38 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:44:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: ..lol ...you mean you've not trained your users properly? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Yes, you can get away with telling a child to stand in the corner! > > ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [SMTP:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > What? There's a difference?? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Get out now while the gettin's good. > > ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's > why I > now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 07:48:32 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:48:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <002301c5c3be$df0d23b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for something I knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites can > be > skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for > getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just > added > a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, > but > I am not yet up on how to do it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi John: > > Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the > same??? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high > speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. > .Net > is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. > With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time > commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and > indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely > that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing > since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it > is > also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on > my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a > "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in > a > data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type > containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your > properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff > just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a > download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we > like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives > to > Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and > Access->certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not > in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved > so > far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I > don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot > help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as > heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will > continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul > within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure > conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am > slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Sep 28 08:13:36 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:13:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFF@main2.marlow.com> Not enough round rooms to tell em to stand in a corner in..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [SMTP:dejpolsys at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL ..lol ...you mean you've not trained your users properly? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Yes, you can get away with telling a child to stand in the corner! > > ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [SMTP:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > What? There's a difference?? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Get out now while the gettin's good. > > ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's > why I > now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 28 08:32:27 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:32:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 08:40:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:40:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050928124229.ZTWK3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <003601c5c432$40600290$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Which pays more? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Too funny -- well, the publishers think there's a difference and my bank account certainly KNOWS there's a difference. Susan H. >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 08:43:02 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:43:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003701c5c432$8bdbe4a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> William, It is not all up there yet, in fact I am just starting that phase. I am requiring a registration to get at that stuff though. Simple name/email and you are in. I need to somehow communicate that on the main page or header area. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for something I knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites > can > be > skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for > getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just > added > a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, > but > I am not yet up on how to do it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi John: > > Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the > same??? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have > high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the > books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I > have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, > huge time commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, > and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS > "greatest thing since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but > it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you > register on my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web > site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call > a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. > Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of > that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. > As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much > stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there > for a download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my > way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether > we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for > alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact > that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as > a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal > interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and > Access->certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are > not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has > achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak > directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a > long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various > powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they > tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure > conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of > their software and nothing more.) I am slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Sep 28 08:56:54 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:56:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337889@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Well, if she writes everything she knows about wizards she might make a fortune.... Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Which pays more? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Too funny -- well, the publishers think there's a difference and my bank account certainly KNOWS there's a difference. Susan H. >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 08:59:51 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003601c5c432$40600290$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050928135950.PIZU2378.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh technical stuff -- easily -- at least until you're somebody in children's literature -- but mostly because the competition isn't as stiff. I compete with just a few people and my publishing contacts are old and established. Children's literature is different -- everybody wants to do it and publishers have their pick of the litters. To make a living, you have to be very, very good or versatile -- I'm working on the latter, having written articles for Weekly Reader and now working on some historical non-fiction books (which must match the state curriculum standards) -- just to get the credentials. Sprinkled in with that is also some basic human interest type stuff -- when I can think of a good story -- but it's all non-fiction -- I am not the next JK Rowlings. :) There are some authors out there making a living just from writing for children (that includes everything from picture books to young adult novels and nonfiction), but not very many. I've been writing freelance since 1998, and done well enough for myself, but I'm just tired of jumping through all of MS's hoops. The truth is, I can't jump through them anymore -- I've reached my hoop saturation point. :) When I listen to you guys talk about all the different technologies, etc. I just get a headache. I don't want to work that hard anymore. If you love it, that's different -- but I've just been making a living at something I could do -- I'm not passionate about computers. :) Susan H. Which pays more? From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 09:03:34 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:03:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <003701c5c432$8bdbe4a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: ..sheesh :( ..I hate that registration stuff ...now I have to remember something and that's getting harder and harder every year :( ..but I'm in ...so what's taking you so long, eh? ...kids keeping you up :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > William, > > It is not all up there yet, in fact I am just starting that phase. I am > requiring a registration to get at that stuff though. Simple name/email > and > you are in. I need to somehow communicate that on the main page or header > area. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for something I > knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >> LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites >> can >> be >> skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for >> getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just >> added >> a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, >> but >> I am not yet up on how to do it. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Lawrence >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Hi John: >> >> Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the >> same??? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >> Colby >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >>>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have >> high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the >> books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I >> have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, >> huge time commitments. >> >> >> The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, >> and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears >> unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS >> "greatest thing since >> sliced bread" projects have. >> >> Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - >> www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire >> framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but >> it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you >> register on my >> site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of >> course). >> The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, >> uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, >> forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. >> >> DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can >> (once >> you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the >> content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in >> your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to >> menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new >> site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not >> content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) >> you have .NET available at your fingertips. >> >> I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web >> site >> I >> am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom >> program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing >> relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these >> congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple >> of >> pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database >> (SQL >> Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since >> DNN >> is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules >> that >> "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. >> >> DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects >> (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call >> a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. >> Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of >> that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. >> As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. >> >> This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven >> applications >> MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net >> in >> this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! >> >> Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much >> stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there >> for a download. >> >> I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my >> way. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Arthur, >> >> <> >> >> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether >> we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for >> alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact >> that it was >> (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access >> offered >> (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not >> being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). >> >> As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. >> I've >> already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by >> the >> time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have >> lost >> quite a few more. >> >> Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >> Fuller >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as >> a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access >> development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal >> interest to >> MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, >> they >> always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various >> eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD >> development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But >> it >> is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine >> compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access >> development >> team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an >> uphill >> battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much >> more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, >> books >> etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it >> can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing >> line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to >> port >> Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate >> was, >> so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to >> Clipper, >> which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be >> no >> one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an >> Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and >> Access->certainly >> not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are >> not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has >> achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak >> directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a >> long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various >> powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they >> tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure >> conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >> influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of >> their software and nothing more.) I am slowly >> learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I >> would >> much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers >> EXEs >> rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the >> cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So >> here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking >> more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >> expertise >> and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of >> things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 09:24:40 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:24:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003801c5c438$5cec2640$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, yea those kids... I have been wanting to rebuild my site forever. I finally discovered this DotNetNuke thing which is really quite an awesome piece of work IMHO, so I decided to use it for a client site I am building. When I saw how easy it is to get the structure built and plain text content up I decided to go do it for my site as well. But of course I have to make a living as well. As for remembering stuff... I use FireFox which just memorizes the username / password. I type in j and it knows about jcolby and the password I used for THAT site. No more memory. Of course if this computer dies I am screwed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL ..sheesh :( ..I hate that registration stuff ...now I have to remember something and that's getting harder and harder every year :( ..but I'm in ...so what's taking you so long, eh? ...kids keeping you up :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > William, > > It is not all up there yet, in fact I am just starting that phase. I > am requiring a registration to get at that stuff though. Simple > name/email and you are in. I need to somehow communicate that on the > main page or header area. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for > something I knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >> LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites >> can be >> skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for >> getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just >> added >> a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, >> but >> I am not yet up on how to do it. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Lawrence >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Hi John: >> >> Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the >> same??? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >> Colby >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >>>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have >> high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the >> books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I >> have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, >> huge time commitments. >> >> >> The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into >> .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it >> appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other >> MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. >> >> Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - >> www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire >> framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but >> it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you >> register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing >> in it yet of course). >> The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, >> uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, >> forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. >> >> DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You >> can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) >> just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text >> editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already >> (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. >> Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... >> "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not >> process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have >> .NET available at your fingertips. >> >> I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web >> site I >> am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom >> program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing >> relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these >> congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple >> of >> pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database >> (SQL >> Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since >> DNN >> is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules >> that >> "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. >> >> DNN already has code for building what they call >> CommonBusinessObjects >> (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call >> a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. >> Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of >> that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. >> As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. >> >> This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven >> applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power >> of .NET (ASP.Net in >> this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! >> >> Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much >> stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there >> for a download. >> >> I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my >> way. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Dettman >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Arthur, >> >> <> >> >> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether >> we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for >> alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact >> that it was >> (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access >> offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short >> comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). >> >> As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. >> I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience >> and by the >> time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have >> lost >> quite a few more. >> >> Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >> Fuller >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access >> as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the >> Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal >> interest to >> MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's >> kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as >> compared (in various >> eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD >> development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. >> But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a >> genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the >> Access development >> team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an >> uphill >> battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much >> more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, >> books >> etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it >> can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing >> line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to >> port >> Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate >> was, >> so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to >> Clipper, >> which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be >> no >> one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an >> Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and >> Access->certainly >> not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we >> are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team >> has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak >> directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a >> long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various >> powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they >> tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure >> conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >> influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of >> their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only >> because the market seems certain to go that way. I would >> much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers >> EXEs >> rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the >> cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So >> here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking >> more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >> expertise >> and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of >> things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Wed Sep 28 09:39:02 2005 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:39:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 09:48:58 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:48:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <20050928144858.BOPF3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... =======Business is certainly part of it Alan -- has to be. MS is just like any other business. Beyond that -- things change. I think some expect technology to uncomplicate our lives, and to get easier and easier. But realistically, technology is a snowball -- it doesn't make things easier, it just grows -- and you grow with it or you find some specialized niche. For years, my niche was writing and applications development. The snowball's just gotten too big and I want off. For every me that jumps off, dozens are jumping on. Susan h. From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 09:51:44 2005 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:51:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39cb22f3050928075113204b68@mail.gmail.com> Jeff, Wauwatosa? I only saw the usual Chicago and Minneapolis sites for locations near us. Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On 9/27/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 28 10:00:39 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:00:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" Quite ambitious, I know ... /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 28-09-2005 15:59 >>> .. When I listen to you guys talk about all the different technologies, etc. I just get a headache. I don't want to work that hard anymore. If you love it, that's different -- but I've just been making a living at something I could do -- I'm not passionate about computers. :) From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 10:06:45 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:06:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <003901c5c43e$3e275a30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Alan, I submitted a few jobs on punched cards, and programming was NOT much easier back then. Each card had fields (as I am sure you will remember) and you had to make sure you started each piece of the thing in the right column. I remember a friend of mine calling Fortran "Basic with all the good stuff left out". You submitted your job and when it failed you did it again fixing just that one thing... Only it was 24 hours later. You didn't design applications, you designed little functions. GoTos to LINE NUMBERS for crying out loud, instead of functions with strongly typed parameters. The "good old days" those were NOT. Yea, things are MUCH more complex today, but you are building MUCH more powerful applications. In the "good old days" you called people up on the telephone to discuss things. Mucho dinero if they happened to live / work in New York. And you didn't even realize that very talented people like Shamil (living in Russia) even existed, never mind able to teach you stuff you never knew before. Now you jump on chat or (gasp) EMAIL them and wait for a response. Or even VOIP. THINK about building an Access application. Now THINK about building that back in "the good old days". A team of programmers, a million dollars in salary and a million dollars in machine time to build a database that I now build for a few thousand, by myself, for the little 4 person company down the road. And it ran sloooooow as hell, consumed all of the memory, was tough to maintain, and... Hmm... pretty much sucked. Assuming of course you could afford the million bucks for the machine to run it on. Sorry, but the "good old days" pretty much sucked. And finally, in the end, programming in VB.Net (or even C#.net I have to imagine) is not that much more complex than programming in C++ in early 199X. If you wish to ignore the .net framework you can just "roll your own". If you choose to use the .net framework you have at your disposal thousands of classes for everything from dictionaries, lists and queues (yes, I wrote a couple of those "back when" and while it was fun, it WASN'T productive) to sockets for web conversations, and tons of stuff in between. I purchased all of the toolboxes that Borland published for Turbo Pascal as TP was going object oriented. Man I loved it, it was soooo powerful. Looking back on it now it was like tinker toys. I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 28 10:16:29 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:16:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL - Maybe Difficult is Better for Developers? In-Reply-To: <14455335.1127848825665.JavaMail.root@sniper23> Message-ID: <000201c5c43f$9a60b520$0200a8c0@danwaters> Well . . . One of the distinct problems I've had gaining credibility as an Access developer is that Access is 'easy', and because it's 'easy' then unqualified people try to become developers and create havoc (and unplanned work for IT departments). So, if there is more of a distinction between people who use Access and people who develop in Access, then perhaps an Access developer may gain credibility because developing actual applications with Access (or other Office products) will be harder to do. We'll find out next year! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 10:21:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:21:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at outbaktech.com Wed Sep 28 10:27:24 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:27:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ Middle of the page, Register Now >> (Choose Location) The very last choice for Wisconsin, actually the very last choice in the list. Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Steve Erbach Sent: Wed 9/28/2005 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jeff, Wauwatosa? I only saw the usual Chicago and Minneapolis sites for locations near us. Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On 9/27/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 10:53:54 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:53:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050928155354.CNFV3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 11:04:42 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:04:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003901c5c43e$3e275a30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050928160440.PEQ12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. ===========Awesome yes, but change always displaces people. In the late 80's through the 90's, applications development was something that the smarter than ordinary, but not a rocket scientist person could take up, sometimes even teach themselves, and cut out a nice little niche for themselves -- with a little ingenuity and ambition, a regular person could make a decent living. That's getting harder and harder. It isn't just .NET that's changing things -- it's not learning one difficult, but really powerful language -- it's the expectations, no it's the demand, that we be competent in several different areas. It isn't enough to know a lot about something anymore, you must know a lot about several technologies now. It's becoming too much for some people -- people like me. I don't want to work that hard for so little -- just to keep up. If I can't get ahead, I'm in the wrong place. I will never get ahead with .NET/Web/etc. -- I will never be proficient enough. Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 11:27:00 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:27:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: My philosophy is you keep learning until you die, whether you like it or not: you have no choice unless you'd like to die sooner. I am a largely self-taught programmer and I've been making my living at it for years. Now I'm making my living at .Net and learning as I go, just as I always have. Eventually, I'll get tired too. I'm already tired enough so that I don't go home and experiment with new approaches to bring back to the office, but then I'm 61 and I need my sleep! I'm quite happy to let the young turks break new ground while I follow along tidying up after them. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. ===========Awesome yes, but change always displaces people. In the late 80's through the 90's, applications development was something that the smarter than ordinary, but not a rocket scientist person could take up, sometimes even teach themselves, and cut out a nice little niche for themselves -- with a little ingenuity and ambition, a regular person could make a decent living. That's getting harder and harder. It isn't just .NET that's changing things -- it's not learning one difficult, but really powerful language -- it's the expectations, no it's the demand, that we be competent in several different areas. It isn't enough to know a lot about something anymore, you must know a lot about several technologies now. It's becoming too much for some people -- people like me. I don't want to work that hard for so little -- just to keep up. If I can't get ahead, I'm in the wrong place. I will never get ahead with .NET/Web/etc. -- I will never be proficient enough. Susan H. - From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 11:28:18 2005 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:28:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39cb22f305092809283c1715c7@mail.gmail.com> Jeff, Thank you. I went to the main Microsoft launch schedule and it showed the standard 20 or so major locations. I do believe I'll sign up for the one in Wauwatosa, too! Steve On 9/28/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ > > Middle of the page, Register Now >> (Choose Location) > > The very last choice for Wisconsin, actually the very last choice in the > list. > > > Jeff Barrows > MCP, MCAD, MCSD > > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > jeff at outbaktech.com > > From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 28 11:39:07 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:39:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C23F@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF03A@ADGSERVER> The page that this link took you to is one of the virtual launch sites. IIRC, they are from like 1-5 pm, where as the full launch ones are something like 8-5. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jeff, Thank you. I went to the main Microsoft launch schedule and it showed the standard 20 or so major locations. I do believe I'll sign up for the one in Wauwatosa, too! Steve On 9/28/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ > > Middle of the page, Register Now >> (Choose Location) > > The very last choice for Wisconsin, actually the very last choice in the > list. > > > Jeff Barrows > MCP, MCAD, MCSD > > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > jeff at outbaktech.com > > -- From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 12:02:39 2005 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:02:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF03A@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C23F@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF03A@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <39cb22f305092810021a8e4443@mail.gmail.com> Bobby, Right. They're "The Best Of" type presentations. I signed up for the full monty in Chicago and also for the one in Wauwatosa. Steve Erbach On 9/28/05, Bobby Heid wrote: > > The page that this link took you to is one of the virtual launch sites. > IIRC, they are from like 1-5 pm, where as the full launch ones are > something > like 8-5. > > Bobby > From KIsmert at texassystems.com Wed Sep 28 12:44:53 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:44:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >>This translates into constantly changing software >>(and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) >>that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >>software and generate more revenue and profits ... That touches a nerve for me too, Alan. The Art of Programming, the gist of it, has changed very little in decades. That alone takes years to learn. We all must adapt to the normal pace of technological change -- a given in this industry -- which means a constant burden of new things to learn. But what I have trouble accepting is the planned obsolescence of perfectly good languages and platforms. The idea of spending the time to master the intricacies of a particular language, which could take the better part of a decade, only to be told it is not viable by its maker, really rubs me the wrong way. One thing is certain, though: in 30 years, Microsoft will have us working in languages that will be completely unrecognizable to us today. But there will still be Perl programmers. One shining advantage of Open-Source, publicly-spec'd languages is that once they achieve critical mass, you can be assured that your investment in learning will not become obsolete. One small hope: Microsoft has made the C# spec a public standard, which could give it the longevity required to attract a long-term following. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will stick to the standard, or try to subvert it, in the coming years. -Ken PS -- Have a look at Nemerle, a new .NET language that has a C#-like syntax, but offers the convenience of type-inference, along with ML-like functional constructs, and Lisp-like meta-programming. Still early in development, but very intriguing... http://nemerle.org/Main_Page From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 13:21:02 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:21:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509281821.j8SIL5T02712@databaseadvisors.com> The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 13:48:44 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:48:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509281821.j8SIL5T02712@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000e01c5c45d$40fafb80$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, I too was stunned to see that. "Committed to Access as a developer platform". I'm not sure I have ever seen them state that in writing before. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 28 14:00:15 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:00:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5399537.1127931956268.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000201c5c45e$dd29c800$0200a8c0@danwaters> On the 2nd page of this presentation was this list, under the heading Pro Developers / IT - Whole new class of apps integrated with WSS - Rich and reach interfaces - Server-side manageability - Highly RAD - Utilize managed code - Confident upgrade path Certainly interesting! Any one have any guesses as to what 'Confident Upgrade Path' might mean? Does this mean Access 13 someday, or upgrade to VB.Net/SQL Server, or something else? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 17:32:06 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:32:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <002101c5c39c$4ebde730$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509282232.j8SMW4T17643@databaseadvisors.com> Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 17:34:37 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:34:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339C384.2030705@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200509282234.j8SMYZT18797@databaseadvisors.com> >> JCL REXX IMS DB2 Wasn't JCL the platform upon which you worked oh-so-long-ago? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: September 27, 2005 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Actually ADP is being dropped it won't hook into SQL Server 2005 unless the SQL Server 2005 is installed in degraded SQL 2000 mode. You can still uses ADO from an MDB to get at SQL 2005 But SQL DMO is being replaced by SMO. which maybe part of the cause. Mary Chipman mentioned this. I can repost from her blog. I think that MDB format is being dropped from Office 12 actually the whole Jet engine may be replaced by something called ACE. but it will be backward compatible. Maybe something to do with new LINQ language, but this is a wild guess. I just got another call for a contract on JCL REXX IMS DB2, if it is any consolation. I usually go to these sites and ask for access to the IBM Redbooks and the reply is usually,"What??" These guys still think Lyndon Johnson is president. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a >serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access >development team to make it one. >The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with >Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will >regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. >We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development >team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS >either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. >I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them >personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this >product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the >money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. >This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do >things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There >will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps >to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, >when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which >revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to >step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET >converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned >by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS >mainstream. >The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP >project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this >will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside >Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same >way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is >pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their >software and nothing more.) >I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that >way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that >delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see >that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the >table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and >thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side >of things. >Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 17:55:31 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:55:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Yes, well they never said a developer platform for WHAT!! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL LOL, I too was stunned to see that. "Committed to Access as a developer platform". I'm not sure I have ever seen them state that in writing before. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 17:56:59 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:56:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: "Utilize Managed code" implies .Net hooks, but I suspect that's smoke and mirrors with Access merely using dlls created with .Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL On the 2nd page of this presentation was this list, under the heading Pro Developers / IT - Whole new class of apps integrated with WSS - Rich and reach interfaces - Server-side manageability - Highly RAD - Utilize managed code - Confident upgrade path Certainly interesting! Any one have any guesses as to what 'Confident Upgrade Path' might mean? Does this mean Access 13 someday, or upgrade to VB.Net/SQL Server, or something else? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 17:59:21 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:59:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <0INJ00803UJ18T@l-daemon> Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) Still working like hell. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 18:29:51 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:29:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509282232.j8SMW4T17643@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001301c5c484$85fe2640$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> A way cool new interface IS a beast. If it were particularly way cool I could understand it, but it is HUGE, and just replaces the smaller toolbars. B And it is almost impossible to turn off. Your users of your custom databases are going to have that in their face. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 18:35:54 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:35:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050928160440.PEQ12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <0INJ0000UW7UP3@l-daemon> In the 'good-old-days' there were very few knowledgeable people in the world of computers. If you knew anything about PCs and programming you were a God. There were fortunes to be made if you were willing to work hard. (Bought a house cash in two years) It was before every smart person figured out the world of computer was the way to go and they would like be a wealthy God... For every computer job there is 10 really talented computer guys there to do it. No longer do my good looks and delightful personality guarantee me the contract, I have to be able to do it faster, cheaper, with more features and use the latest technology. The main issue I have is that I still have to work long nights with little sleep but I do not recover by ten in the morning anymore. Maybe I should go and manage some of these young brats that are now smarter and faster than I am. To that end I have started a new company and the product(s) should be ready by next year.... then I will retire to some comfortable estate... and continue playing with computers, programming and databases to the end of my days.... OK, I admit it I am addicted :-) .Net is really neat and all you have to learn is XML, JavaScript, MS SQL, C# and ASP.Net and maybe ADO.Net and life is good. Now back to work. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. ===========Awesome yes, but change always displaces people. In the late 80's through the 90's, applications development was something that the smarter than ordinary, but not a rocket scientist person could take up, sometimes even teach themselves, and cut out a nice little niche for themselves -- with a little ingenuity and ambition, a regular person could make a decent living. That's getting harder and harder. It isn't just .NET that's changing things -- it's not learning one difficult, but really powerful language -- it's the expectations, no it's the demand, that we be competent in several different areas. It isn't enough to know a lot about something anymore, you must know a lot about several technologies now. It's becoming too much for some people -- people like me. I don't want to work that hard for so little -- just to keep up. If I can't get ahead, I'm in the wrong place. I will never get ahead with .NET/Web/etc. -- I will never be proficient enough. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 28 18:41:20 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:41:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509281821.j8SIL5T02712@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" Joe From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 18:50:25 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:50:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INJ0071AWW20X@l-daemon> That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other miscellaneous environments. ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>This translates into constantly changing software >>(and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) >>that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >>software and generate more revenue and profits ... That touches a nerve for me too, Alan. The Art of Programming, the gist of it, has changed very little in decades. That alone takes years to learn. We all must adapt to the normal pace of technological change -- a given in this industry -- which means a constant burden of new things to learn. But what I have trouble accepting is the planned obsolescence of perfectly good languages and platforms. The idea of spending the time to master the intricacies of a particular language, which could take the better part of a decade, only to be told it is not viable by its maker, really rubs me the wrong way. One thing is certain, though: in 30 years, Microsoft will have us working in languages that will be completely unrecognizable to us today. But there will still be Perl programmers. One shining advantage of Open-Source, publicly-spec'd languages is that once they achieve critical mass, you can be assured that your investment in learning will not become obsolete. One small hope: Microsoft has made the C# spec a public standard, which could give it the longevity required to attract a long-term following. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will stick to the standard, or try to subvert it, in the coming years. -Ken PS -- Have a look at Nemerle, a new .NET language that has a C#-like syntax, but offers the convenience of type-inference, along with ML-like functional constructs, and Lisp-like meta-programming. Still early in development, but very intriguing... http://nemerle.org/Main_Page -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 28 19:07:11 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 28 20:12:03 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <8805823.1127950346079.JavaMail.root@sniper23> Message-ID: <000001c5c492$cdcf6e80$0200a8c0@danwaters> John - But wouldn't you expect to be able to control these new toolbars (I think they're call ribbons) in code? Just like I can control toolbars ins AXP, I should be able to hide ribbons, and create my own. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL A way cool new interface IS a beast. If it were particularly way cool I could understand it, but it is HUGE, and just replaces the smaller toolbars. B And it is almost impossible to turn off. Your users of your custom databases are going to have that in their face. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 20:12:37 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:12:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290112.j8T1CXT18328@databaseadvisors.com> Put "gift", value "$2". That should do it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 8:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 20:14:19 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:14:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290114.j8T1EFT18893@databaseadvisors.com> You are one vicious bitch, Charlotte :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 27, 2005 7:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Wed Sep 28 20:14:56 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:14:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 28 Sep 2005 at 19:07, John Bartow wrote: > I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs > or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" > down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? Put gift on the customs tag. It'll clear customs with no duties or taxes. Maybe even gift wrap it for the authentic look :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We are Microsoft. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 20:31:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:31:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <001401c5c495$844da760$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yes John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" Joe -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 28 20:48:36 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:48:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290148.j8T1maT00612@databaseadvisors.com> Ain't gonna happin'! :o))) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Maybe even gift wrap it for the authentic look :) From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 28 20:48:36 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:48:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290112.j8T1CXT18328@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290148.j8T1mbT00615@databaseadvisors.com> OK -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Put "gift", value "$2". That should do it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 8:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 21:44:56 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:44:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INJ00803UJ18T@l-daemon> Message-ID: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and >Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April >Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED >???" > >I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 >keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe >computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see >if our "job" >had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back >then. > >Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. >This >translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies >with >STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >software and generate more revenue and profits ... > >Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to >writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly >changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to >"web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The >Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, >has >spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for >delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, >he will have found a job elsewhere ...) > >I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve >Ballmer >that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT >and >not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time >absorbing all this "new" technology? > >Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now >write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:05:00 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:05:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290304.j8T34vT31954@databaseadvisors.com> Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:06:32 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:06:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050928155354.CNFV3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <200509290306.j8T36RT00388@databaseadvisors.com> I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: September 28, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 22:08:52 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:08:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0INK00G2362TIM@l-daemon> That a valid point... and a nice farm it is. :-) He has also managed to introduce children's books as well. Apparently he can do it all at once!! You just have to admire someone like that. (We have been looking at places in Sooke... sorry inside joke for Vancouver Island people only.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. >Jim From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:10:04 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:10:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290309.j8T39xT01770@databaseadvisors.com> And your problem with that route would be? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL "Utilize Managed code" implies .Net hooks, but I suspect that's smoke and mirrors with Access merely using dlls created with .Net. Charlotte Foust From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:11:07 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:11:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INJ00803UJ18T@l-daemon> Message-ID: <200509290311.j8T3B2T02546@databaseadvisors.com> Actually I was thinking of selling everything and buying a women's shoe store LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 28, 2005 6:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) Still working like hell. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 22:14:22 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:14:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0INK00H3L6BZXL@l-daemon> ...and to follow-up from the last comment with the last comment from the LarkFarm: http://www.larkfarm.com/journal/2005/September/09262005.htm Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and >Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April >Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED >???" > >I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 >keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe >computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see >if our "job" >had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back >then. > >Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. >This >translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies >with >STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >software and generate more revenue and profits ... > >Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to >writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly >changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to >"web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The >Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, >has >spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for >delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, >he will have found a job elsewhere ...) > >I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve >Ballmer >that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT >and >not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time >absorbing all this "new" technology? > >Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now >write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:14:27 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:14:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001301c5c484$85fe2640$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509290314.j8T3EMT03688@databaseadvisors.com> Come one, JWC... you are not being fair. I have seen some of your apps, and we are both in approximately the same place: 300+ tables, 500+ queries, 500+ forms, etc. You cannot manage a UI (using previous conventions) that handles this kind of load. I think that the new UI may be a way cool method to delivering this sort of complexity. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I am thinking that these smart UI objects are just the ticket to let me deliver a complex app with a minimum of fuss. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 28, 2005 7:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL A way cool new interface IS a beast. If it were particularly way cool I could understand it, but it is HUGE, and just replaces the smaller toolbars. B And it is almost impossible to turn off. Your users of your custom databases are going to have that in their face. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:16:02 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:16:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <200509290315.j8T3FvT04630@databaseadvisors.com> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: September 28, 2005 7:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:20:32 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INJ0071AWW20X@l-daemon> Message-ID: <200509290320.j8T3KQT05957@databaseadvisors.com> I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about it). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other miscellaneous environments. ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>This translates into constantly changing software >>(and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) >>that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >>software and generate more revenue and profits ... That touches a nerve for me too, Alan. The Art of Programming, the gist of it, has changed very little in decades. That alone takes years to learn. We all must adapt to the normal pace of technological change -- a given in this industry -- which means a constant burden of new things to learn. But what I have trouble accepting is the planned obsolescence of perfectly good languages and platforms. The idea of spending the time to master the intricacies of a particular language, which could take the better part of a decade, only to be told it is not viable by its maker, really rubs me the wrong way. One thing is certain, though: in 30 years, Microsoft will have us working in languages that will be completely unrecognizable to us today. But there will still be Perl programmers. One shining advantage of Open-Source, publicly-spec'd languages is that once they achieve critical mass, you can be assured that your investment in learning will not become obsolete. One small hope: Microsoft has made the C# spec a public standard, which could give it the longevity required to attract a long-term following. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will stick to the standard, or try to subvert it, in the coming years. -Ken PS -- Have a look at Nemerle, a new .NET language that has a C#-like syntax, but offers the convenience of type-inference, along with ML-like functional constructs, and Lisp-like meta-programming. Still early in development, but very intriguing... http://nemerle.org/Main_Page -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:21:16 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:21:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290321.j8T3LBT06576@databaseadvisors.com> Place a value of $1 on the package. That should do it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 8:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:22:47 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:22:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290148.j8T1maT00612@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290322.j8T3MhT07156@databaseadvisors.com> Aw, I was hoping to have some pretty giftwrap to tear open. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 9:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Ain't gonna happin'! :o))) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Maybe even gift wrap it for the authentic look :) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 23:20:10 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:20:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <433B6B7A.5080007@shaw.ca> XML ain't frightening of course the villagers may show up with pitchforks. Here is a simple method for using Access Smart Tags to display either Google maps or weather given a zip code. if you need it for certain european areas just add or pop the (Text } address field comma seperated via a http post web service it takes two minutes to add this to an Access Mdb Turnoff MS Word Access or Outlook, that may have the smatrtag engine open Make sure that all Microsoft Office XP or Office 2003 applications are closed. Cut and Paste these two xml files below with NotePad into indicated paths and save as UTF-8 format not ANSI. Now in Access Select the Tools -> Options... menu to open the Options dialog window. Select the "Forms/Reports" tab, then ensure that the "Show Smart Tags on Forms" check box on the bottom left of the window is checked. Select the "Datasheet" tab, then ensure that the "Show Smart Tags on Datasheets" check box on the bottom right of the window is checked. Select the "OK" button to save your changes. Choose Tools: AutoCorrect Options. These also may have certain smarttag options Now on your form in design view select the zip code fileld and embed the smarttag by right clicking on the smarttag field property to build it, the wizard comes up and places the following type of urn in the property "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:smarttags:list" The wizard looks at the dll's and xml files in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Smart Tag\LISTS\ Hover your mouse pointer over the form zip code field, click the Smart Tag Actions button, and then click Weather by ZIP code. or google map, An IE window will now open with your google map. To link the Customer Name field to the Smart Tag, follow these steps: # Open the client database table in Design View. # Select the Customer Name field row. # Click the Builder button next to the Smart Tags field property in the field properties window. # Click the People check box and click OK. Now, when the customer service representative uses the form to look up a client, a Smart Tag icon will appear next to the client's name. By clicking on the Smart Tag's icon drop-down box, the representative can add the client to his/her Outlook contacts, send the client an e-mail, or schedule a meeting with the client. http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-5875431.html?tag=sc Cut and Paste these two xml files below with NotePad into indicated paths and save as UTF-8 format not ANSI. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Smart Tag\LISTS\GoogleMap.xml Local Map Your local map report on Google http://msdn.microsoft.com/office Local Map on Google 98052,02134 Map by ZIP code http://maps.google.com/maps?q={TEXT} C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Smart Tag\LISTS\weather.xml Local Weather Your local weather report on MSNBC. http://msdn.microsoft.com/office Local Weather on MSNBC 98052,02134 Weather by ZIP code http://www.msnbc.com/news/wea_front.asp?ta=y& tab=BW&tp=&czstr={TEXT} Joe Hecht wrote: >So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I >know it or not? > > >The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread >is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, >entitled: > >Developing Collaboration Solutions >With Access 12 And >Windows SharePoint Services "v3" > > >Joe > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 28 23:20:41 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:20:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001401c5c495$844da760$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000901c5c4ad$28054ef0$0a01a8c0@desktop> Which way to the lessons? Joe Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yes John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 23:36:24 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:36:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INK00G2362TIM@l-daemon> Message-ID: <433B6F48.1060109@shaw.ca> It is cheaper up on China Beach Jim Lawrence wrote: >That a valid point... and a nice farm it is. :-) He has also managed to >introduce children's books as well. Apparently he can do it all at once!! >You just have to admire someone like that. > >(We have been looking at places in Sooke... sorry inside joke for Vancouver >Island people only.) > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. > >Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > >>Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >>think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >>have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >>in the city and move to a farm... :-) >> >>Still working like hell. >>Jim >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 01:34:07 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:34:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509290320.j8T3KQT05957@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <0INK007A9FKXUD@l-daemon> Hi Arthur: There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only had a couple lines of manually enter coding. There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a graphic user input for additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data formatted in XML and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to call-back) and full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be generated by just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. As you learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=48 I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested I can send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about it). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other miscellaneous environments. ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP :-) Jim From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 02:48:37 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:48:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INK007A9FKXUD@l-daemon> Message-ID: <001701c5c4ca$3b33de20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Jim, Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including ASP.NET 2.0 based... ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become "webisized"... ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until they become really fine tuned for high workload.... ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... Recap: ====== -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect it to be if any at all; - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on them... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Hi Arthur: > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down at > Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... and I am > not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in ASP.Net 2.0, > that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer or SQL Express, > that were created using its RAD interface that only had a couple lines of > manually enter coding. > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across the > internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, set-up an > automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a graphic user input for > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls and > many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data formatted in XML > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to call-back) and > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be generated by > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. As you > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the hilt. > It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that gave the > presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=48 > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested I can > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their on-line > newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner > Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers > Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links > to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to > MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a > way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and > delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a > lot that we can do about it). > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its > various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, > Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other > miscellaneous environments. > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and > PHP :-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 29 03:13:41 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:13:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 8 replication update Message-ID: Hi all If you use Access XP/2002/2003 replication this may be of interest for you: http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;321076&spid=914&sid=global Files that are included in the Jet replication update Jet40Repl.exe: File Name Version Description --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Msrclr40.dll 4.0.6508.0 Jet Briefcase Reconciler Library Msrecr40.dll 4.0.6508.0 Jet Briefcase Reconciler Resource Library Msrpfs40.dll 4.0.6508.0 File System Transport for Indirect Replication Mstrai40.exe 4.0.6508.0 Transporter for Internet (Indirect) Replication Mstran40.exe 4.0.6508.0 Transporter for Indirect Replication This is a follow up to a previous correction of a memory leak in A2000 replication: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320803/ /gustav From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Thu Sep 29 07:08:50 2005 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:08:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Message-ID: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02DC37A2@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 08:09:22 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:09:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001701c5c4ca$3b33de20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INK00715XVIGM@l-daemon> Hi Shamil: I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based application, like the following: (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff of 10. Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this point. ...but the features are all there.... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim, Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including ASP.NET 2.0 based... ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become "webisized"... ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until they become really fine tuned for high workload.... ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... Recap: ====== -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect it to be if any at all; - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on them... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Hi Arthur: > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down at > Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... and I am > not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in ASP.Net 2.0, > that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer or SQL Express, > that were created using its RAD interface that only had a couple lines of > manually enter coding. > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across the > internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, set-up an > automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a graphic user input for > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls and > many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data formatted in XML > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to call-back) and > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be generated by > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. As you > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the hilt. > It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that gave the > presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=48 > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested I can > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their on-line > newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner > Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers > Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links > to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to > MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a > way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and > delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a > lot that we can do about it). > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its > various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, > Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other > miscellaneous environments. > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and > PHP :-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 08:27:55 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:27:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband In-Reply-To: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02DC37A2@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Message-ID: <0INK00H0WYQGI2@l-daemon> Hi Rich: It all depends on what the two offices want to share. I have to assume as you are asking within an Access forum that you are looking database solution. The simplest database sharing method, as they have broadband, would be two Access versions, one for each site and a replication between them. If a secure connection is needed there are many VPN clients and hosts that can connect remote sites together. (One recent client used a free Linux type solution assembled from a couple of old discards and another client has a Windows based version but I have never seen the BE, as they are in Texas somewhere.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lavsa, Rich Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 08:29:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050929132918.OVOS12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Working night and day... ;) Susan H. Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. >I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You >either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up >everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 08:29:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509290306.j8T36RT00388@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050929132925.OVQI12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, that's just it. Writing is like any other business. If it takes me a week to produce an article, I can't pay my rent. If it takes me weeks and weeks -- months in the case of .NET -- to become proficient enough to write basic articles, I can't survive. I will never learn .NET well enough to compete with the big dog writers -- and there's really not a market for the basic stuff. In the long run, it is not in my best interest to learn it -- if I were going to develop with it, yes, I probably would move ahead. I'm not. Susan H. I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 08:40:23 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INK00715XVIGM@l-daemon> Message-ID: <002101c5c4fb$57cec050$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 companies, there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low cost, functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per minute/hour/ or even month. I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like a good solution for that kind of application. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Shamil: I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based application, like the following: (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff of 10. Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this point. ...but the features are all there.... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim, Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including ASP.NET 2.0 based... ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become "webisized"... ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until they become really fine tuned for high workload.... ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... Recap: ====== -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect it to be if any at all; - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on them... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Hi Arthur: > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > graphic user input for > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > formatted in XML > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > call-back) and > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > generated by > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > As you > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > 8 > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > I can > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > it). > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > thinking that > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > and PHP :-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 29 03:43:37 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:43:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan That's an idea. Team up with one of our dot net experts ... /gustav >>> artful at rogers.com 29-09-2005 05:06:32 >>> I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: September 28, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 08:57:35 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:57:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050929135746.VSKY27918.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> That only works if I know the product well enough myself to spot errors, inaccuracies, that sort of thing. I have to have reasonable knowledge myself. I'll probably give .NET a bit of a whirl -- just to see what happens -- it's an opportunity and it's knocking -- I'll open the door and see what happens, but I doubt that it'll ever take me out to dinner. ;) Susan H. Hi Susan That's an idea. Team up with one of our dot net experts ... From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 09:02:02 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:02:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050929132918.OVOS12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <0INL00D2W0BGIM@l-daemon> It is now 6:30Am here and I have been up since 3:45Am and it is threatening to be a very busy day... but being a contractor a 'power nap' late in the afternoon is a possibility. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Working night and day... ;) Susan H. Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. >I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You >either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up >everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 09:12:00 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:12:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <002101c5c4fb$57cec050$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <004301c5c4ff$d9579f30$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 09:11:04 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:11:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INL00F1N0QDZ9@l-daemon> There are some great .Net programmers out there that can write code like a pro but make two grammar and a spelling error in a single line of documentation. That sounds like a Susan solution to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:44 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Susan That's an idea. Team up with one of our dot net experts ... /gustav >>> artful at rogers.com 29-09-2005 05:06:32 >>> I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: September 28, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 09:19:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:19:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050929132918.OVOS12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002201c5c500$d436cc00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yea, but there is a difference between working night and day out of your kitchen and working night and day in the corner office of a high rise that takes you an hour (or two) to get to and from, breathing who knows what, living in a suburb where the statistical likelihood that there is a sex offender living within 5 minutes of you approaches unity, and where the likelihood that said sex offender is unregistered (or lost track of) approaches 50%. Hmmm... Working night and day on the farm sounds pretty good to me. In fact I live about 5 miles from the nearest small town, in an area where there are neighbors but on two acre lots and then woods behind. I love the "country" feel and, while it isn't a farm, it is rural enough to be an entirely different lifestyle. And yes, I work day and night, mostly at home. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Working night and day... ;) Susan H. Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 29 09:35:32 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:35:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004> <007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c71865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <072301c5c503$0c2b8680$6501a8c0@HAL9004> A.D.: Thanks for the idea. Does this mean that the report preview appears in a pop-up or that there's a pop-up form with the navigation buttons? I already have a custom toolbar with a minimum of controls on it - print, close, & fit. I see that you can add controls for record navigation. They look like the icons I want but of course they don't turn the pages of a report. I'd like to put the page navigation in the toolbar. Is there a way to change the action of those icons you can put on a custom toolbar? Or is there a way to create a custom button for a toolbar that would turn the pages of a report? Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > Rocky, > > Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables > page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps > forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. > > You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. > > Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is > necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the > active one. > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > Code module for Pop Up Form > ================================ > ' Declarations Section > Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long > > Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ > (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long > -------------------------------------------------------- > Private Sub CmdNext_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{DOWN}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{UP}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Activate() > DoCmd.Restore > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Load() > RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd > FrmHdw = Me.hwnd > End Sub > ================================ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 > Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > Dear List: > > I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview > if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom > control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the > screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be > added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more > likely to see them. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 29 09:45:46 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050929132925.OVQI12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000001c5c504$7ab21780$0a01a8c0@desktop> Susan I would buy basic xml and .net In the words of SGT Schultz, I know nothing. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:29 AM To: access at joe2.endjunk.com; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, that's just it. Writing is like any other business. If it takes me a week to produce an article, I can't pay my rent. If it takes me weeks and weeks -- months in the case of .NET -- to become proficient enough to write basic articles, I can't survive. I will never learn .NET well enough to compete with the big dog writers -- and there's really not a market for the basic stuff. In the long run, it is not in my best interest to learn it -- if I were going to develop with it, yes, I probably would move ahead. I'm not. Susan H. I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 09:52:11 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:52:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c504$7ab21780$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <20050929145209.GUPF16732.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, on this subject, Schultz and I have something in common. ;) I thought XML and .NET were free????? It's the tools you pay for, right? Susan H. Susan I would buy basic xml and .net In the words of SGT Schultz, I know nothing. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 09:56:17 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <004301c5c4ff$d9579f30$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <002301c5c505$f1d98540$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I am working in the VB.Net Express beta and I quite like it. Just different enough that my old VS 2001 apps won't compile but lots of great new functionality. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:03:32 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:03:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Moi?? Surely you jest! I'm a silver-haired grandmother ... Just ask anyone I've terrified lately. ;-} Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You are one vicious bitch, Charlotte :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 27, 2005 7:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:05:29 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:05:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:06:34 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:06:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: My problem is that it doesn't mean that Access programmer can *write* managed code, only that they can use something created in another language. That effectively leaves Access out of the direct .Net world. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL And your problem with that route would be? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL "Utilize Managed code" implies .Net hooks, but I suspect that's smoke and mirrors with Access merely using dlls created with .Net. Charlotte Foust -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 10:08:45 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:08:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A2@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I just set up a WAN between my home and my warehouse. The linksys VPN routers are cheap, effective and relatively easy to set up.I found Linksys Networks: The Official Guide, Third Edition by Walter Glenn to be equipment specific and have enough of the "theory" to be useful. While this book does not spend enough time on VPN I found whitepapers on the linksys site that were sufficiently detailed. My biggest problem is the upload speed from my residential cable makes running quickbooks from the warehouse slooow. Hopefully you will not encounter this with commercial grade broadband. Go for It and good luck! Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Lavsa, Rich [mailto:Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:15:04 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:15:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: But Susan, there must be a market for articles addressed to all the toe-in-the-water developers who know they're going to have to learn .Net but are afraid to try. Why not earn while you learn? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, that's just it. Writing is like any other business. If it takes me a week to produce an article, I can't pay my rent. If it takes me weeks and weeks -- months in the case of .NET -- to become proficient enough to write basic articles, I can't survive. I will never learn .NET well enough to compete with the big dog writers -- and there's really not a market for the basic stuff. In the long run, it is not in my best interest to learn it -- if I were going to develop with it, yes, I probably would move ahead. I'm not. Susan H. I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:17:13 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:17:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Does that mean you can edit code while the app is running? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 10:17:35 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:17:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A3@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> PS I also bought one of the standalone network hardrives for the data storage for a couple of hundred bucks at Fry's. Works great Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband I just set up a WAN between my home and my warehouse. The linksys VPN routers are cheap, effective and relatively easy to set up.I found Linksys Networks: The Official Guide, Third Edition by Walter Glenn to be equipment specific and have enough of the "theory" to be useful. While this book does not spend enough time on VPN I found whitepapers on the linksys site that were sufficiently detailed. My biggest problem is the upload speed from my residential cable makes running quickbooks from the warehouse slooow. Hopefully you will not encounter this with commercial grade broadband. Go for It and good luck! Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Lavsa, Rich [mailto:Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 10:18:56 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:18:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050929151854.EIPR11362.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Charlotte, I know you have a point -- if you can find the publishers, I'll write them with you. :) Right now, I don't know of any publishers that give a fig about beginning .NET -- I may be missing them though. :) Of course, there's a lot to be said for creating a market. ;) I will think on it. :) Susan H. But Susan, there must be a market for articles addressed to all the toe-in-the-water developers who know they're going to have to learn .Net but are afraid to try. Why not earn while you learn? From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 11:20:26 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:20:26 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: <004f01c5c511$b4949740$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Does that mean you can edit code while the app is running? Yes, while you are debugging application under VS.NET IDE. There are some limitations of course but after MS Access 2000/XP/2003 "edit&continue" feature where one can't save code if editions are made to the library database and after MS Access 97 crashing once in a while with all or part of the edits made during debugging lost - after all that what VS.NET 2005 Beta 2 have looks very good and this is only the beginning... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Does that mean you can edit code while the app is running? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled > rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which > were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this > feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers > from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... > > Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 11:22:45 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:22:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A6@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> What worries me is that, despite all the words to the contrary, MS doesn't really understand the power user community. Power users are fundamentally task oriented as opposed to application development oriented. This means for any given assignment the user has to weigh completion of the task with the required "investment" in time, etc., to learn new ways to do things faster/more accurately. For example, do I cut and paste numbers from existing spreadsheets to get the boss his numbers or do I learn how to create a pivot table? For those willing to invest the incremental time the rewards can be great because the new skill can lead to immense productivity. The key word is incremental. The typical power user can seldom break away for a week or more to go to seminars, conferences, etc. so the acquisition of new skills is truly small steps at a time. Like the power of compounding, however, over time (years in my case) the acquired skills can add up to something substantial. What I have always liked about Office is the unique blend of capabilities available to all users. It tremendously narrowed the Great Divide between the IT tribe and the User tribe because users could be much more self sufficient. From spreadsheet to pivot table to Access table to wizards and macros to eventually full fledged VBA there exists a power path for those willing to climb it. A power user could actually become a developer if so inclined. My first impression of the new paradigm is that the chasm has widened again and that users will once again be relegated to their little pond. For any functionality outside of that they will have to go hat in hand to the IT powers that be. Shades of the 70s! The user ghetto may be fancier but it is a ghetto all the same. Take the word from someonme who has struggled to achieve self sufficieny for 30 years, starting with the IBM 360. Power users had a fighting chance for independence with tools like VBA. Are they going to invest the time to learn Net? I doubt it. How sad. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 11:32:22 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:32:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A6@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <20050929163221.NKWC19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> What I have always liked about Office is the unique blend of capabilities available to all users. It tremendously narrowed the Great Divide between the IT tribe and the User tribe because users could be much more self sufficient. From spreadsheet to pivot table to Access table to wizards and macros to eventually full fledged VBA there exists a power path for those willing to climb it. A power user could actually become a developer if so inclined. My first impression of the new paradigm is that the chasm has widened again and that users will once again be relegated to their little pond. For any functionality outside of that they will have to go hat in hand to the IT powers that be. Shades of the 70s! The user ghetto may be fancier but it is a ghetto all the same. Take the word from someonme who has struggled to achieve self sufficieny for 30 years, starting with the IBM 360. Power users had a fighting chance for independence with tools like VBA. Are they going to invest the time to learn Net? I doubt it. How sad. ===========This is what I was trying to say yesterday, but I think you've said it much better than I did. Thank you. Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 12:48:12 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:48:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at the power users. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL What worries me is that, despite all the words to the contrary, MS doesn't really understand the power user community. Power users are fundamentally task oriented as opposed to application development oriented. This means for any given assignment the user has to weigh completion of the task with the required "investment" in time, etc., to learn new ways to do things faster/more accurately. For example, do I cut and paste numbers from existing spreadsheets to get the boss his numbers or do I learn how to create a pivot table? For those willing to invest the incremental time the rewards can be great because the new skill can lead to immense productivity. The key word is incremental. The typical power user can seldom break away for a week or more to go to seminars, conferences, etc. so the acquisition of new skills is truly small steps at a time. Like the power of compounding, however, over time (years in my case) the acquired skills can add up to something substantial. What I have always liked about Office is the unique blend of capabilities available to all users. It tremendously narrowed the Great Divide between the IT tribe and the User tribe because users could be much more self sufficient. From spreadsheet to pivot table to Access table to wizards and macros to eventually full fledged VBA there exists a power path for those willing to climb it. A power user could actually become a developer if so inclined. My first impression of the new paradigm is that the chasm has widened again and that users will once again be relegated to their little pond. For any functionality outside of that they will have to go hat in hand to the IT powers that be. Shades of the 70s! The user ghetto may be fancier but it is a ghetto all the same. Take the word from someonme who has struggled to achieve self sufficieny for 30 years, starting with the IBM 360. Power users had a fighting chance for independence with tools like VBA. Are they going to invest the time to learn Net? I doubt it. How sad. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 13:21:55 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:21:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A8@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still around I guess I'll be okay. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at the power users. Charlotte Foust *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 14:25:48 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:25:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A8@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <001201c5c52b$b414e120$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <<< Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. >>> This is not MS invention - this is Query-By-Example (concept created by Christopher J. Date(?) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_J._Date) known since 80ies. As one can see VB6/VBA - MS own idea ("every housewife can write applications") are nearly to be dead... C# invented by Anders Hejlberg - Delphi creator. VB.NET is C#-ised VB6... etc. <<< what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? >>> MS are also advancing in horizontal market (Axapta/Navision, MS-CRM etc.) - when they win in this area they will start "attacking" vertical markets - the fate of powerusers and developers for horizontal and even vertical markets isn't looking bright.... I can be wrong of course but MS getting into horizontal markets doesn't look good for me.... We have here in Russia one main accounting application used by most of the companies - this application's promotion in the middle of 90ies was based on huge financial advantage this software owners had. Result: it's rather bad software, there is no real competition in accounting applications' market here... ...and now Axapta/Navision are getting power here - not because they are so good but because big money are behind them and because their deployment is very often accompanied by high "bribes"... Sad story.... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be > anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave > a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really > liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of > syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power > users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a > plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. > I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is > not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to > strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can > create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole > in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still > around I guess I'll be okay. > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at > the power users. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 15:11:58 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:11:58 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <002101c5c4fb$57cec050$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000e01c5c532$155536f0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees You're lucky guy, John! :) Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 companies, > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low cost, > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > minute/hour/ or even month. > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like a > good solution for that kind of application. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi Shamil: > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > application, like the following: > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff > of 10. > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Jim, > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > "webisized"... > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > Recap: > ====== > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect > it to be if any at all; > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > them... > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > graphic user input > for > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > formatted in > XML > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > call-back) > and > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > generated > by > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > As > you > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > 8 > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > I > can > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > Fuller > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > problem > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > it). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Lawrence > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > thinking > that > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > and PHP :-) > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 15:34:53 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:34:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A9@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> WOW as soon as I put in my 2 cents a lively discussion ground to a halt. I'm afraid to ask what that means..... Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still around I guess I'll be okay. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at the power users. Charlotte Foust *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 29 15:45:38 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:45:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <27954316.1128024829859.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000601c5c536$c00bc5b0$0200a8c0@danwaters> Shamil, If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by using your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees You're lucky guy, John! :) Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 companies, > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low cost, > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > minute/hour/ or even month. > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like a > good solution for that kind of application. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi Shamil: > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > application, like the following: > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff > of 10. > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Jim, > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > "webisized"... > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > Recap: > ====== > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect > it to be if any at all; > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > them... > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > graphic user input > for > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > formatted in > XML > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > call-back) > and > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > generated > by > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > As > you > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > 8 > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > I > can > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > Fuller > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > problem > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > it). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Lawrence > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > thinking > that > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > and PHP :-) > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 16:41:31 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:41:31 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000601c5c536$c00bc5b0$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <001101c5c53e$9013ad20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Dan, The problem is that there is no real custom software for small businesses development market here because this economy isn't yet ready for it . The money they are ready to pay for month long work will not be enough for my family's one week living.... ...I can sing like nightingale about how good their business becomes with advanced custom software - they will not buy it for money I need for my family's good living... ...I will keep trying of course but situation in custom software development here will not change to the better in foreseeable future... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Shamil, > > If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by using > your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) > > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees > You're lucky guy, John! :) > > Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they > can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. > > If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your > country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 > companies, > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low > cost, > > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > > minute/hour/ or even month. > > > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like > a > > good solution for that kind of application. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > Hi Shamil: > > > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but > on > > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a > 1000 > > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > > application, like the following: > > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a > staff > > of 10. > > > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at > this > > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > Salakhetdinov > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Jim, > > > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. > users? > > > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to > write > > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything > else > > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may > happen > > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > > "webisized"... > > > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and > MS > > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go > until > > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that > "Web > > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > > > Recap: > > ====== > > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may > expect > > it to be if any at all; > > > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" > but > > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > > them... > > > > Shamil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > > graphic user input > > for > > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > > formatted in > > XML > > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > > call-back) > > and > > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > > generated > > by > > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > > As > > you > > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > > 8 > > > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > > I > > can > > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > > Fuller > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > > problem > > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > > it). > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > Lawrence > > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > > thinking > > that > > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > > and PHP :-) > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 16:49:07 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001201c5c52b$b414e120$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INL00503LXVTD@l-daemon> It is basically the same here, not nearly as comprehensive, but especially for the mid to high PC based market. The product is called ACPAC and many companies have made their fortunes supporting the product. At last look it still only had the 'post' method and old time book-keepers and accountants companies liked it that way. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL <<< Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. >>> This is not MS invention - this is Query-By-Example (concept created by Christopher J. Date(?) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_J._Date) known since 80ies. As one can see VB6/VBA - MS own idea ("every housewife can write applications") are nearly to be dead... C# invented by Anders Hejlberg - Delphi creator. VB.NET is C#-ised VB6... etc. <<< what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? >>> MS are also advancing in horizontal market (Axapta/Navision, MS-CRM etc.) - when they win in this area they will start "attacking" vertical markets - the fate of powerusers and developers for horizontal and even vertical markets isn't looking bright.... I can be wrong of course but MS getting into horizontal markets doesn't look good for me.... We have here in Russia one main accounting application used by most of the companies - this application's promotion in the middle of 90ies was based on huge financial advantage this software owners had. Result: it's rather bad software, there is no real competition in accounting applications' market here... ...and now Axapta/Navision are getting power here - not because they are so good but because big money are behind them and because their deployment is very often accompanied by high "bribes"... Sad story.... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be > anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave > a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really > liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of > syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power > users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a > plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. > I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is > not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to > strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can > create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole > in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still > around I guess I'll be okay. > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at > the power users. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 16:55:46 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:55:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001101c5c53e$9013ad20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INL0080OM8Y3E@l-daemon> That is why it might be a good idea to bet on the internet. It has the ability to expose you programming skills to anywhere there is a PC and a modem or broadband. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Dan, The problem is that there is no real custom software for small businesses development market here because this economy isn't yet ready for it . The money they are ready to pay for month long work will not be enough for my family's one week living.... ...I can sing like nightingale about how good their business becomes with advanced custom software - they will not buy it for money I need for my family's good living... ...I will keep trying of course but situation in custom software development here will not change to the better in foreseeable future... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Shamil, > > If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by using > your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) > > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees > You're lucky guy, John! :) > > Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they > can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. > > If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your > country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 > companies, > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low > cost, > > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > > minute/hour/ or even month. > > > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like > a > > good solution for that kind of application. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > Hi Shamil: > > > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but > on > > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a > 1000 > > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > > application, like the following: > > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a > staff > > of 10. > > > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at > this > > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > Salakhetdinov > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Jim, > > > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. > users? > > > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to > write > > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything > else > > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may > happen > > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > > "webisized"... > > > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and > MS > > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go > until > > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that > "Web > > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > > > Recap: > > ====== > > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may > expect > > it to be if any at all; > > > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" > but > > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > > them... > > > > Shamil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > > graphic user input > > for > > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > > formatted in > > XML > > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > > call-back) > > and > > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > > generated > > by > > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > > As > > you > > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > > 8 > > > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > > I > > can > > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > > Fuller > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > > problem > > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > > it). > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > Lawrence > > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > > thinking > > that > > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > > and PHP :-) > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 17:20:18 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:20:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INL0080OM8Y3E@l-daemon> Message-ID: <001a01c5c544$01b53cf0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Yes, Jim I'm betting on Internet - I even try to use RentACoder where "dirt cheap" Romanian, Indian, Ukranian, Russian, ... programmers and students from all around the World are betting. And it happened that after about 30 bid attempts I did get and I did develop one advanced C# project last summer and this project's completion moved me into higher than 97.99% percent league of RentACoder. But this is still 2300+th place out of 116,000+ registered programmers. Not bad but a long way to go... RentACoder is an interesting place to make challenging small projects in the new areas - in this case money do not matter that much - this is how it was with my first project there... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > That is why it might be a good idea to bet on the internet. It has the > ability to expose you programming skills to anywhere there is a PC and a > modem or broadband. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Dan, > > The problem is that there is no real custom software for small businesses > development market here because this economy isn't yet ready for it . The > money they are ready to pay for month long work will not be enough for my > family's one week living.... > > ...I can sing like nightingale about how good their business becomes with > advanced custom software - they will not buy it for money I need for my > family's good living... > > ...I will keep trying of course but situation in custom software development > here will not change to the better in foreseeable future... > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Waters" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:45 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Shamil, > > > > If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by > using > > your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) > > > > Dan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > Salakhetdinov > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees > > You're lucky guy, John! :) > > > > Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they > > can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software > development. > > > > If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your > > country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) > > > > Shamil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John W. Colby" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 > > companies, > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > > > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low > > cost, > > > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > > > minute/hour/ or even month. > > > > > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > > > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks > like > > a > > > good solution for that kind of application. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > > Hi Shamil: > > > > > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > > > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > > > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up > but > > on > > > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. > It > > > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of > notice. > > > > > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how > to > > > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am > hoping > > > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a > > 1000 > > > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > > > application, like the following: > > > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > > > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > > > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating > their > > > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a > > staff > > > of 10. > > > > > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at > > this > > > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > > Salakhetdinov > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > > > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. > > users? > > > > > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have > written > > > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > > > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to > > write > > > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind > into > > > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can > get > > > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > > > > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - > all > > > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything > > else > > > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software > including > > > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > > > > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > > > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may > > happen > > > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > > > "webisized"... > > > > > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and > > MS > > > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go > > until > > > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > > > > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > > > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > > > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that > > "Web > > > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > > > > > Recap: > > > ====== > > > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > > > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may > > expect > > > it to be if any at all; > > > > > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because > I > > > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" > > but > > > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > > > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying > on > > > them... > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Lawrence" > > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > > > graphic user input > > > for > > > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > > > formatted in > > > XML > > > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > > > call-back) > > > and > > > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > > > generated > > > by > > > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > > > As > > > you > > > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > > > 8 > > > > > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > > > I > > > can > > > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > > > Fuller > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > > > problem > > > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > > > it). > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > > Lawrence > > > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > > > thinking > > > that > > > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > > > and PHP :-) > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 18:23:49 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:23:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001a01c5c544$01b53cf0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <000701c5c54c$d92898f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Shamil, I signed up with an outfit called Guru.com. I have bid on about 30 or so jobs, and got my first job today. The jobs coming across are mostly just good for a laugh. I literally saw one that went something like: "You will build a web crawler that will find the price of 4 of my books on Amazon.com. You will then find the lowest selling price and then you will replace my current selling price with 1c less than the lowest selling price. You will email me this and log that, and you will track something else. The winning bid for this job will be no more than $75.00" I'm just rolling on the floor laughing. And the sad part is that probably 95% of the jobs that come across are equally ludicrous. This guy knew what he wanted, he just wanted it done by a high school freshman who thought $75 was a lot of money. Most of these guys looking for help don't even know that much. Today I did win a bid for "3-4 weeks work finishing an application to track ...". All I did was bid my hourly wage for time worked and assured them I was capable. This job looks legitimate, and the company looks real - they have an internet site and offices around the country. I have an appointment to meet with one of the partners Monday morning to begin working with him defining what needs to be done etc etc. At least they appear to have a clue, they have something started, that they admit was started by a partner who got in over his head, and which they need straightened out and finished. That is exactly what I do a lot of the time so here we go. Trying to get work over the internet is no picnic. I guess it's just a numbers game, bid XX times and one will come your way. With any luck that one will keep giving you hours occasionally and you go back out bidding for the next job. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yes, Jim I'm betting on Internet - I even try to use RentACoder where "dirt cheap" Romanian, Indian, Ukranian, Russian, ... programmers and students from all around the World are betting. And it happened that after about 30 bid attempts I did get and I did develop one advanced C# project last summer and this project's completion moved me into higher than 97.99% percent league of RentACoder. But this is still 2300+th place out of 116,000+ registered programmers. Not bad but a long way to go... RentACoder is an interesting place to make challenging small projects in the new areas - in this case money do not matter that much - this is how it was with my first project there... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > That is why it might be a good idea to bet on the internet. It has the > ability to expose you programming skills to anywhere there is a PC and > a modem or broadband. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 19:15:51 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:15:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000e01c5c532$155536f0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <000801c5c554$20f30790$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >... but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. Yes, we have the same issues here. Which is exactly why RAD is so vital. You can sell tens of hours of dev at a good wage IF you can accomplish it in the time frame. Once you get the basics up, then the "can it do this little thing" syndrome takes over and you do "upgrades" for the rest of your life. But again, the little guys will just walk if you come in saying "200 hours at $60 / hour" (or whatever your rate is). I have a firmly held belief that is difficult to do much in the way of database development in under about 100 hours - in terms of a real system. The smallest companies need it in 20-40 hours, that is their comfort range for budget. I can actually do that for the simplest things, in fact I am in one now that I quoted 40 hours on and it is coming in at that - minus reports which of course can go on forever... I do believe though that I have a rather large advantage in this arena, that being my framework. As you probably know I can link to my framework and just instantly have such things as zip/unzip, log files to disk or tables, SysVars for program control, form and control classes for sinking events (Thanks to a gentleman by the name of Shamil) and doing the standard stuff like NotInList, RecordSelectors etc. So I can build forms with all that stuff in minutes instead of hours or days. Working the small business market is no joy ride but the nice thing about the small guy is that he is has no clue how to "go to India" for his work so if he is going to do a database, he is a prospect of mine. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees You're lucky guy, John! :) Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) Shamil From jmhecht at earthlink.net Fri Sep 30 00:31:51 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:31:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000801c5c554$20f30790$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5c580$44f79850$0a01a8c0@desktop> John, Bless you for sysvars. I am still learning to work with them. Is it better to import tables to sysvars or sysvars into existing db Joe I do believe though that I have a rather large advantage in this arena, that being my framework. As you probably know I can link to my framework and just instantly have such things as zip/unzip, log files to disk or tables, SysVars for program control, From viner at EUnet.yu Fri Sep 30 00:59:12 2005 From: viner at EUnet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:59:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004><007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c71865cb@winxp> <072301c5c503$0c2b8680$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <010601c5c586$aaaab190$0100a8c0@RazvojErvin> Rocky, knowing A.D. I'm think very soon will be a new sample at http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com ;-) Meantime you can see http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='ReportPrevi ewing.zip' Ervin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > A.D.: > > Thanks for the idea. Does this mean that the report preview appears in a > pop-up or that there's a pop-up form with the navigation buttons? > > I already have a custom toolbar with a minimum of controls on it - print, > close, & fit. I see that you can add controls for record navigation. They > look like the icons I want but of course they don't turn the pages of a > report. I'd like to put the page navigation in the toolbar. Is there a way > to change the action of those icons you can put on a custom toolbar? Or is > there a way to create a custom button for a toolbar that would turn the > pages of a report? > > Thanks and regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A.D.Tejpal" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > > Rocky, > > > > Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables > > page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps > > forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. > > > > You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. > > > > Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is > > necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the > > active one. > > > > Best wishes, > > A.D.Tejpal > > -------------- > > > > Code module for Pop Up Form > > ================================ > > ' Declarations Section > > Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long > > > > Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ > > (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Private Sub CmdNext_Click() > > DoCmd.Echo False > > Me.Visible = False > > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > > SendKeys "{DOWN}", True > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > > Me.Visible = True > > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > > DoCmd.Echo True > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() > > DoCmd.Echo False > > Me.Visible = False > > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > > SendKeys "{UP}", True > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > > Me.Visible = True > > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > > DoCmd.Echo True > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub Form_Activate() > > DoCmd.Restore > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub Form_Load() > > RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd > > FrmHdw = Me.hwnd > > End Sub > > ================================ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 > > Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview > > if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom > > control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the > > screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be > > added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more > > likely to see them. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > 858-259-4334 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 30 06:11:49 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:11:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c580$44f79850$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <001a01c5c5af$c3fa5a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Is it better to import tables to sysvars or sysvars into existing db I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but the way I use SysVars, I have a table of SysVars that controls the framework. That table has a copy in the framework that is loaded by the framework as it initializes. It controls such things as: Do you want JIT Subforms turned on by default What is the default date format Etc. Thus the call to FWInit causes the FWSysVars table INSIDE of the framework MDA to load. Once that is loaded, it looks for a copy of FWSysVars in the FE. This is an "override" table. IOW, by default, JIT Subforms may be false, but for THIS FE, JIT SubForms needs to be on by default. Thus I literally copy the FWSysVars table from the framework MDA into every FE as one of the first steps of setting up a FE. I can then edit the FW defaults per the needs of THAT FE. So... I have a SysVar table that controls the FRAMEWORK, with a copy that loads immediately from inside the framework library and then an override table that loads from the FE which can override any defaults on a FE by FE basis. I usually then have what I call an SVAPPControl table, or a table of SysVars to control the CODE in the application. Perhaps the app needs steering logic to decide whether to turn on particular forms or reports or modules of code. By setting SysVars in the SVAppControl table you can cause code to branch particular ways. The SVAppControl table is typically just another table that physically sits in the framework MDA but is empty. The framework loads the table and sets up a SVAppControl class for the application to reference, but it doesn't have anything in it. I then copy the empty SVAppContr table into the FE and start loading SVs into the table as I find a need for them as I am developing the app. Thus let's say I add 15 SVAppControl variables into the copy in the FE. As the framework loads, it loads the FWSysvars table and override table, it loads the SVAppControl (empty) from the Framework MDA and then loads the now populated SVAppControl from the FE and by the time the Framework is finished initializing that table is ready for the FE application code to use. I also have a third SVAppDATA table. This is a table of application DATA sysvars. Things like my company (ColbyConsulting) contact information, the same kind of info about the CLIENT'S company, perhaps for use on reports etc. The process is the same though. There is an empty copy of the table in the SysVar that gets loaded as the framework initializes. I then copy that empty table into my BACK END (typically) so that even if there is more than one FE they all share the same info, although it is possible to have an "override" table located in the FE that can override the one in the BE if a specific FE needs different AppData. Again though, as the framework loads, it loads the empty copy in the Framework container, then looks for and loads the one in the BE/FE. By the time the framework is finished loading, the AppDATA SysVar table is finished loading and is ready for the application to use. Thus in my applications I have THREE "sets" of SysVar tables. SVFramework SVAppControl SVAppData All of these have the tables named and ready to go in the framework container. As I build the empty FE I pull all three into the FE, pulling the SVAppDATA into the BE as well, and linking it into the FE. I can then load SysVars into the various tables as I desire and they are just loaded by the Framework as it initializes so that by the time the FWInit() function returns control to the FE loader, all three tables have been initialized. By the time I am done, I have THREE functions I can call to get data out of the various SysVar tables. SVFW("SomeSysVarName") will return the value of the SysVar named "SomeSysVarName" from the FRAMEWORK SysVar table (cached of course). SVAppContr("SomeAppCONTROLSysVarName") will return the value of the SysVar named "SomeAppCONTROLSysVarName" from the APPLICATION CONTROL SysVar table (cached of course). SVAppData("SomeAppDATASysVarName") will return the value of the SysVar named "SomeAppDATASysVarName" from the APPLICATION DATA SysVar table (cached of course). SysVar tables are a type of cache, loaded out of the tables into a class structure. I do this intentionally so that the program can access these variables at full program speed instead of having to access the table out in the database container whenever it needs to use a SysVar. Sysvars are lightening fast, but because they are a cache, if you add something to the SysVar table, the application won't pick it up until the next time the SysVar tables are loaded into the class cache system. In practice this isn't an issue since these variables are not changed on a moment by moment basis, but rather loaded as you build the app and then rarely change. The SVAppDATA table changes the most frequently, but again even this is on a very occasional basis, not daily. I hope this has answered your questions about how I use them, where the tables come from, where I place them and how they get loaded. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL John, Bless you for sysvars. I am still learning to work with them. Is it better to import tables to sysvars or sysvars into existing db Joe From adtp at touchtelindia.net Fri Sep 30 07:44:49 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:14:49 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004><007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c 71865cb@winxp> <072301c5c503$0c2b8680$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <001c01c5c5bc$daac5de0$971865cb@winxp> Rocky, It is a tiny pop-up form (similar to a tool bar) that sits in a corner of the screen. It gets opened via report's open event and closed via report's close event. You might like to adapt the commands suitably to appropriate buttons on your tool bar. In that case, the commands specific to the form (i.e. hiding / un-hiding etc) can be ignored. After ensuring that report window is the active one and the report is in FitToWindow mode, SendKeys arguments as summarized below, would do the needful. (a) Go to Next Page - "{DOWN}" (b) Go to Prev Page - "{UP}" (c) Go to Last Page - "^{DOWN}" (d) Go to First Page - "^{UP}" It is observed that SendKeys commands do not get ported smoothly to tool bar functions. If you find yourself stuck on this account, and wish to avoid form based solution, you could consider experimenting with fTurnPage feature available at Leban's site. For this, you would have to download the file named ControlReports.zip. Sample named ReportPreviewing.zip (by Heenan) at Roger's site, as mentioned by Ervin, represents the pop-up form approach. If at any stage, you happen to need a simplified sample based upon the code sent by me earlier, I can try to put it together. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 20:05 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar A.D.: Thanks for the idea. Does this mean that the report preview appears in a pop-up or that there's a pop-up form with the navigation buttons? I already have a custom toolbar with a minimum of controls on it - print, close, & fit. I see that you can add controls for record navigation. They look like the icons I want but of course they don't turn the pages of a report. I'd like to put the page navigation in the toolbar. Is there a way to change the action of those icons you can put on a custom toolbar? Or is there a way to create a custom button for a toolbar that would turn the pages of a report? Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > Rocky, > > Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables > page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps > forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. > > You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. > > Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is > necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the > active one. > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > Code module for Pop Up Form > ================================ > ' Declarations Section > Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long > > Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ > (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long > -------------------------------------------------------- > Private Sub CmdNext_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{DOWN}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{UP}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Activate() > DoCmd.Restore > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Load() > RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd > FrmHdw = Me.hwnd > End Sub > ================================ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 > Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > Dear List: > > I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview > if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom > control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the > screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be > added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more > likely to see them. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 30 08:24:09 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c504$7ab21780$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <200509301324.j8UDODT24194@databaseadvisors.com> In the words of Plato, therefore you know one thing. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: September 29, 2005 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Susan I would buy basic xml and .net In the words of SGT Schultz, I know nothing. From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 30 08:39:53 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:39:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509301339.j8UDdvT30673@databaseadvisors.com> You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 30 08:42:09 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:42:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] blogs on Office 12 Message-ID: <20050930134208.CRAY3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2005/09/28/474854.aspx Found this on Mike G's site (larkware.com) Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 30 08:51:22 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:51:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Arthur I'm certainly interested but unfortunately don't have the time for experimenting. Would you mind to reveal your findings please? /gustav >>> artful at rogers.com 30-09-2005 15:39 >>> You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 30 08:53:24 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:53:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor -- speaking of pi... Message-ID: <20050930135322.CWJQ3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> http://users.aol.com/s6sj7gt/ladypi.htm Susan H. From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Fri Sep 30 09:43:31 2005 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:43:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF299@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 30 10:30:16 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:30:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: It drives me up the wall too, because I've had to deal with the results in the past. Try to filter records sometime for one value or the other or one value and not the other when both are embedded in multiple value fields! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 11:40:10 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:40:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF299@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <0INN00DEN2ALFE@l-daemon> Hi Alan: If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see them are as follows: 1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. 2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little duplication as possible. 3. A high level of performance must be maintained. With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to impact performance. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 30 12:06:57 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:06:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INN00DEN2ALFE@l-daemon> Message-ID: <000801c5c5e1$606bfb10$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Jim, But I think MS SQL 2000 and MS SQL 2005 perfectly fit all the twelve Dr.E.F. Codd rules. http://www.frick-cpa.com/ss7/Theory_RelationalDB.asp Maybe there are some small exceptions for the rules: #4. Database is Self-Describing #12. Data Integrity Cannot be Subverted but they are not significant I think. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Alan: If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see them are as follows: 1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. 2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little duplication as possible. 3. A high level of performance must be maintained. With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to impact performance. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hollisvj at pgdp.usec.com Fri Sep 30 13:27:14 2005 From: hollisvj at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis, Virginia) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:27:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo to Combo Message-ID: <66ABA669023AE74B97746FD8E68439200148E89E@c2k3exchange.pgdp.corp.usec.com> I need to create a combo box that lists system identifications. When the selection is made from the system combo, the 2nd combo only lists related failures. The problem is the System and the Failure are repeated. An Alarm can have the same type of failure as a Dryer. How do I set up the tables & the form for the combos to list the Systems with the matching Failure types when they are all repeated? Example: System, Failure Alarm, Age Alarm, Normal Wear Alarm, Corrosion Battery, Overload Battery, Age Dryer, Normal Wear Dryer, Age Dryer, Obstruction Virginia From developer at ultradnt.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:29 2005 From: developer at ultradnt.com (Steve Conklin) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Combo to Combo In-Reply-To: <66ABA669023AE74B97746FD8E68439200148E89E@c2k3exchange.pgdp.corp.usec.com> Message-ID: <200509301849.j8UInZD09063@ultradnt.com> Virginia: You need a many-to-many table to relate the Systems to the Failure Types ... tblSystem: PK=systemID 1 (Alarm) 2 (Dryer) tblFailType: PK=FailTypeID 1 (Age) 2 (Wear) tblSystemFailType: FK1=SystemID FK2=FailTypeID Alarm Wear Alarm Shorted Dryer Wear Dryer Age Then on the form, after user selects system from combo1, requery combo 2 to show the applicable failure types Combo 2 source = "SELECT FailTypeID, FailType FROM tblFailType WHERE FailTypeID IN " & _ " (SELECT FailTypeID FROM tblSystemFailType WHERE SystemID=" & me.combo1 & ")" Hth Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis, Virginia Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 2:27 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Combo to Combo I need to create a combo box that lists system identifications. When the selection is made from the system combo, the 2nd combo only lists related failures. The problem is the System and the Failure are repeated. An Alarm can have the same type of failure as a Dryer. How do I set up the tables & the form for the combos to list the Systems with the matching Failure types when they are all repeated? Example: System, Failure Alarm, Age Alarm, Normal Wear Alarm, Corrosion Battery, Overload Battery, Age Dryer, Normal Wear Dryer, Age Dryer, Obstruction Virginia -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:33 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:49:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] attack of the Access pixies Message-ID: I have something really freaky going on and I need to enlist the help of the Access gods of this list...to save my sanity if nothing else. I was working on a form this afternoon, and adding bells and whistles. Actually, I've created 16 custom buttons (2 for each state of 8 choices), and I am using them for the menu. I use these by placing an image control under invisible control buttons. After placing in the eight choices with their default pictures, it all worked fine. But as I started adding the code for MouseMove, SetFocus, GotFocus, and LostFocus, for the first button, I almost immediately noticed odd behavior. When I moused over the first button, instead of alternating to the new image, like I have programmed...and have done so many times before...it gave me a message box that said it was "loading the image." I froze at that time and the message stayed there. It turned out that as soon as the mouse came off the button, it would change, but I've never seen a load message before. I figured that I would tend to this problem later and went on with the other buttons. I added the second button and then tested it out...I always take baby steps...I know they say, "God hates a coward," but he doesn't always seem that fond of me either, so slow and careful is how I try to operate. It still said that it was loading, but now I was wise enough, for testing purposes, to move the mouse. Now, as soon as I hit the second button, Access closes w/out any further warning. Of course I hadn't saved my work in over 30 minutes...I'm always lecturing my users about this, and I am usually good about it...so I had to retype a great deal. I found out that it doesn't matter what order I do this in; it always bombs on the second button that I mouse over. As another test, I added code for a third button and it confirmed the same. No matter what button you mouse over second is the trigger to close Access. There is one more finding though. If I avoid the remaining two buttons with code, after mousing over one first, and click on one of the five "uncoded" buttons, everything goes back to normal, until I hit one of the three "coded" buttons again. This is the code that I use in the three buttons (this is one, but besides the name, they are all the same): *** Start Code ******************************************************************************************** Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_Click() subformx.SourceObject = "frmSortedByLastname" End Sub Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_GotFocus() imgEmployeeInfo.Picture = "C:\Documents and Settings\DefaultUser\My Documents\Programming\graphix\Buttons\Custom\DSSPayroll_Orange\EmployeeInfo_2.gif" End Sub Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_LostFocus() imgEmployeeInfo.Picture = "C:\Documents and Settings\DefaultUser\My Documents\Programming\graphix\Buttons\Custom\DSSPayroll_Orange\EmployeeInfo_1.gif" End Sub Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_MouseMove(Button As Integer, Shift As Integer, X As Single, Y As Single) cmdEmpInfo.SetFocus End Sub *** End Code ******************************************************************************************** BTW, This is A2K. Is there some limit maybe on the path size? This won't be the final path, which will most likely be something like, "///volume:data/access/dss/payroll/graphics/" This is driving me batty! I am going to try a reboot right now, just to see if there is some sort of memory issue on my PC...doubt it will work though...I am grasping right now. Thanks in advance! John W Clark From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 30 14:03:29 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:03:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] attack of the Access pixies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050930190331.XLXP24941.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Have you used these image files before? Susan H. Actually, I've created 16 custom buttons (2 for each state of 8 choices), and I am using them for the menu. I use these by placing an image control under invisible control buttons. After placing in the eight choices with their default pictures, it all worked fine. But as I started adding the code for MouseMove, SetFocus, GotFocus, and LostFocus, for the first button, I almost immediately noticed odd behavior. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 30 14:14:51 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:14:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] attack of the Access pixies Message-ID: Hi John Don't load the pictures every time. Convert them to bitmaps, insert them on the form, and hide/unhide them as needed. /gustav From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 30 14:47:16 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:47:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F16CB9288@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Good grief!!!! It has been almost three hours since we last had a "The future of Access, .NET and SQL" posting. What gives? :-) Lambert From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 15:04:45 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:04:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up Message-ID: In case anyone has tried to access the archives at http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/ recently and received a 403 Forbidden Error, it's fixed!!! After 3 weeks of diagnosing the problem and trying various solutions with no luck, I finally found the solution. It was a simple permissions problem. This affected all the public archives at databaseadvisors.com, so everything is now as it should be. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 30 15:07:25 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:07:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Message-ID: Exhaustion setting in?? ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:47 PM To: 'Access-D Email (accessd at databaseadvisors.com)' Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Good grief!!!! It has been almost three hours since we last had a "The future of Access, .NET and SQL" posting. What gives? :-) Lambert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 30 15:23:54 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:23:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F16CB9288@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: Yes, the feeling is coming back to my delete key finger, which went numb from so much use. :) by the way, being Friday, here's one of my favorites from Rodney Daingerfield: My wife asked me to take to somewhere really expensive last night. So I did. * * * * * * I took her to the gas station. D -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:47 PM To: 'Access-D Email (accessd at databaseadvisors.com)' Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Good grief!!!! It has been almost three hours since we last had a "The future of Access, .NET and SQL" posting. What gives? :-) Lambert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 16:59:03 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:59:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000801c5c5e1$606bfb10$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INN00J5HH2AZK@l-daemon> Shamil: That description is a very good one. I have not seen a translation as good as that one and I think none of the rules can be refuted. The issues arrive when they are described in context with database normalization. I rarely process below Form 3. A collogue has been saying for years that the relational database as we know it is designed wrong. He claims that a real relational database or post-relational database is OOP. To that end he says he can demonstrate that a Cach? database running on a slower computer can run the same application as an existing MS SQL DB faster and with better access to the data. It is suppose to scale to millions of records was no apparent loss in performance. (I am skeptical and unfortunately missed last night's demonstration but will reserve my judgment until further observation.) I anticipate a carefully timed demonstration... There is a free single user download from http://www.intersystems.com/cache/downloads/ (Windows/Linux) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim, But I think MS SQL 2000 and MS SQL 2005 perfectly fit all the twelve Dr.E.F. Codd rules. http://www.frick-cpa.com/ss7/Theory_RelationalDB.asp Maybe there are some small exceptions for the rules: #4. Database is Self-Describing #12. Data Integrity Cannot be Subverted but they are not significant I think. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Alan: If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see them are as follows: 1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. 2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little duplication as possible. 3. A high level of performance must be maintained. With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to impact performance. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 17:02:25 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:02:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INN0002IH7W62@l-daemon> Thank you Bryan; another job well done. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up In case anyone has tried to access the archives at http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/ recently and received a 403 Forbidden Error, it's fixed!!! After 3 weeks of diagnosing the problem and trying various solutions with no luck, I finally found the solution. It was a simple permissions problem. This affected all the public archives at databaseadvisors.com, so everything is now as it should be. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 17:13:22 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:13:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up In-Reply-To: <0INN0002IH7W62@l-daemon> References: <0INN0002IH7W62@l-daemon> Message-ID: On 30/09/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thank you Bryan; another job well done. Thanks Jim. I just wish it didn't take this long to get it fixed. :( -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 19:07:59 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:07:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INN00J5HH2AZK@l-daemon> Message-ID: <433DD35F.1000101@shaw.ca> With Cache you have to read the swipes Date and Pascal take at it Against http://www.dbazine.com/ofinterest/oi-articles/pascal5 But with Fabian Pascal, you start believing in Mystic Eisegesis and start looking for notes nailed to church doors. http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html For http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5746 Jim Lawrence wrote: >Shamil: > >That description is a very good one. I have not seen a translation as good >as that one and I think none of the rules can be refuted. The issues arrive >when they are described in context with database normalization. I rarely >process below Form 3. > >A collogue has been saying for years that the relational database as we know >it is designed wrong. He claims that a real relational database or >post-relational database is OOP. To that end he says he can demonstrate that >a Cach? database running on a slower computer can run the same application >as an existing MS SQL DB faster and with better access to the data. It is >suppose to scale to millions of records was no apparent loss in performance. >(I am skeptical and unfortunately missed last night's demonstration but will >reserve my judgment until further observation.) > >I anticipate a carefully timed demonstration... There is a free single user >download from http://www.intersystems.com/cache/downloads/ (Windows/Linux) > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >Salakhetdinov >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 10:07 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Jim, > >But I think MS SQL 2000 and MS SQL 2005 perfectly fit all the twelve >Dr.E.F. Codd rules. > >http://www.frick-cpa.com/ss7/Theory_RelationalDB.asp > >Maybe there are some small exceptions for the rules: > >#4. Database is Self-Describing >#12. Data Integrity Cannot be Subverted > >but they are not significant I think. > >Shamil > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Lawrence" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hi Alan: > >If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database >the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various >degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever >cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see >them are as follows: >1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. > >2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little >duplication as possible. >3. A high level of performance must be maintained. > >With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented >but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to >impact performance. > >My two cents worth >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Arthur, Charlotte: > >Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational >database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) >"An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to >fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of >the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early >1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of >articles dealing with various topics related to database design. > >Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing >that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) >cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten >Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date >excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his >book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" >against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat >out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing >but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these >"flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's >words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's >criticisms just about right.) > >I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that >creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with >Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After >investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a >vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of >six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three >rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been >violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". > >I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," >but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is >the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. > >Alan C. Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two >ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested >reader. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of >"databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple >choices stored in a single field. > >Charlotte > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! >Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is >selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a >ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as >possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child >relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > >>>Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) >>> >>> > >That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning >relational design? > >Charlotte > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hi all > >OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. >Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? > > > >ACE - Access Data Engine > >- Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% >backwards compatible with Jet >- Connects to external data sources >- Foundation for richer support of complex data >- Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) >- Attachments >- Append only >- Read and write Excel "12" file formats >- SharePoint ISAM enhancements >- OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) > > > >I guess OM here means Object Model. >Further: > > > >New ACCDB file format > >- Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries >- Default for all new database >- Supports complex data features >- Multiple value lookups >- Attachments >- Append only >- SharePoint list offline >- Office file encryption not Jet encoding > > > >Also this summary: > > > >- Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform >- SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types >of collaborative applications >- Developers can build and deploy tracking templates > > > >Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this >seems not to be "dead" at all. > >/gustav > > > >>>>Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> >>>> >>>> >Hi Susan and Martin > >Thanks! >Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 30 21:42:13 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:42:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510010242.j912gAT05257@databaseadvisors.com> The first violation, if you wish to call it that, is the ENUM column type. This type specifies that the value must be one of a collection of enumerated strings, such as "This", "That", "The other", "Nothing", etc. This is akin to Access's value-list column definition. The second violation is the SET column. Given a column definition such as MyColumn SET('one', 'two') NOT NULL Then MyColumn can have any of these values: '' 'one' 'two' 'one,two' A SET can have a maximum of 64 different members. Magic is being performed behind the scenes. You can do lightning-quick queries against such columns, not surprisingly (note the 64-member maximum). But the fact remains that this would make Dr. Codd turn over in his grave. This sort of column violates everything we have learned about relational database design. Columns should be ATOMIC -- one value per row/column. My partner Peter Brawley and I have done some benchmarks and there is no doubt about it, MySQL's set columns are fast. But what the benchmarks don't mention is the cost of adding a new item to any given set. Suppose you have 1,000 installations. You have to restructure the table, then bump it out to 1.000 database servers. Not a pretty prospect. That said, the concept does work well for small sets that are unlikely to change, such as "Potential Sexual Partners" set "male", "female", "tv", "tg". That set covers the bases for the foreseeable future (unless I am really old and really out of touch with such matters). A. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 30 23:57:00 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:57:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] My new web site Message-ID: <000501c5c644$920ae330$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Anyone interested please visit. I am using DotNetNuke to build my new web site. It is still a work in progress, as is my knowledge of DNN. What you see on my site has been done in just about a week. For a side by side comparison: My new site: www.colbyconsulting.com My old site: www.jwcolby.com I am finding DNN to be a pretty cool web site framework. It REQUIRES SQL Server and so you must purchase a hosting package that includes SQL Server, but it gives the developer (knowledgeable in Visual Studio) the ability to write custom modules to work with data from SQL Server using plug-in modules that you write. DNN is written using VB in VS 2003, and I own VS 2001 so I am at a standstill ATM, however I am about to order the academic version (my wife is a teacher) of VS 2003 which will allow me to start developing snap-in modules for DNN that can dish up data. Stand by for that. Any comments welcome. I am not a web site developer so do not expect a world class web page, but I think that given my limitations it looks pretty good. Register and Log in to see additional features. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 1 02:20:30 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:20:30 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update Message-ID: Hi Francisco As David indicates, use the Text property of the control to retrieve the currently typed string before it is saved and while the control still has focus; if it hasn't focus, Text is not available. For a bound control, the Value property returns the stored value. /gustav >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 31-08-2005 23:08 >>> I have a bound form in an Access 2000 data project. I have a field named txtADE, I set it to 3 and immediatly the before_update fires. however in the before_update code if I try to reference txtADE it shows my previous value, not the new one... what gives? thanks, -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 1 02:38:42 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:38:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing a date calculation Message-ID: Hi Chris We have a generic function (well two functions) for this purpose: Function DateNextWeekday( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal bytWeekday As Byte = vbMonday) _ As Date ' Returns the date of the next weekday, as spelled in vbXxxxday, following datDate. ' 2000-09-06. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next DateNextWeekday = DateAdd("d", 7 - (WeekDay(datDate, bytWeekday) - 1), datDate) End Function Function DatePrevWeekday( _ ByVal datDate As Date, _ Optional ByVal bytWeekday As Byte = vbMonday) _ As Date ' Returns the date of the previous weekday, as spelled in vbXxxxday, prior to datDate. ' 2000-09-06. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. ' No special error handling. On Error Resume Next DatePrevWeekday = DateAdd("d", 1 - WeekDay(datDate, bytWeekday), datDate) End Function As Stuart mentions, given the Sunday you can easily find the Monday before. It's a matter of taste, but I prefer to use the Date functions whenever possible, thus: datSundayPrevious = DatePrevWeekday(Date, vbSunday) datMondayBefore = DateAdd("d", -6, datSundayPrevious) /gustav >>> dc8 at btinternet.com 01-09-2005 00:00 >>> All, I have a form that users are supposed to enter a start date, always a Monday and an end date, always the Sunday after. However, they seem completely unable to enter these dates correctly so I am trying to see if there is a way to force a date into the system using Date() and then going back to the previous Sunday and then working out the Monday prior to that. So, 31 August 2005 would go back to Sunday 28th August 2005 and I would then subtract days to get Monday 22 August 2005. Could anybody give me a pointer on if this is possible as the data being returned currently is normally incorrect and this is causing more than a few headaches !! Thanks in advance, Chris Swann From artful at rogers.com Thu Sep 1 03:01:21 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 04:01:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls Message-ID: <200509010801.j8181ER12524@databaseadvisors.com> This is perhaps a day early, since it's humourous, but it is also on point for those of use who attempt to market internationally. 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels depicting the contents, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi Brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu Sep 1 05:05:09 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:05:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls Message-ID: <20050901100507.8957E2527DB@smtp.nildram.co.uk> The French soft drink Pschitt springs to mind. Not a big market in English-speaking countries for that. And even within the broad English-speaking world we all know of words and phrases that don't cross borders well. On the serious side of this it just shows if anyone is thinking of marketing products outside of their country it just proves it's essential to involve locals. It's not just naming, but customs too. I've never tried it but I'm quite sure marketing of a product in, say, Japan is a very different exercise. I'm sure those with products, like Rocky, would have some tales to tell. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls Date: 01/09/05 08:02 This is perhaps a day early, since it's humourous, but it is also on point for those of use who attempt to market internationally. 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels depicting the contents, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi Brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 1 09:17:08 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:17:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu Sep 1 09:32:01 2005 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:32:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318807225F77@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> You have my permission, and gladly (I've sent the email) though I doubt you'll find anything worth printing amongst my contributions to the list. Come November I'll have time on my hands (as you know) and I'd love to help. Yell if there's anything I can do. xx Roz -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 01 September 2005 15:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From john at winhaven.net Thu Sep 1 09:56:40 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:56:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318807225F77@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Message-ID: <200509011456.j81EulR20286@databaseadvisors.com> John, You may use all of the "deep class" modules I have written about here. John B. ;o) From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Sep 1 09:59:41 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:59:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book References: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <003b01c5af05$c8609fc0$0200a8c0@s1800> Sorry, John, but for whatever reason my ISP doesnt allow sending to your addrss. so here goes: ---------------- I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book this includes other work archived by dba like BEU Lembit ---------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 4:17 PM Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book > Folks, > > Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a > "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and > solutions > found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the > royalties > to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other > "accessd" > lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > > Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / > solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will > be > acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will > at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following > people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this > book...". > I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / > solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. > > At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their > solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to > AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a > sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use > my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/86 - Release Date: 31.08.2005 > > From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Sep 1 10:07:35 2005 From: GregSmith at starband.net (GregSmith at starband.net) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:07:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! I know we've been around this topic before, but I thought I'd see if anyone has any definitive answers about the maximized form. Access 2003/XP. Form has to be maximized...there just simply is not enough room if I don't maximize it. They wanted all this stuff on it, so I did that, but the form must be maximized to keep it all on one screen. I have an exit button for them to use which does everything I want, but the dang control box (min, max, and "X") is still there and they can close the form using the "X" if they want and it bypasses some of the code I need to have run on closing. And the code I need run when they exit cannot be run if they use the "X" because it must set the form in a state where I can't check on certain fields before I allow it to close. Does anyone know of any way around this? Is there some clandestine (or non-clandestine...) way to disable that control box? Or at least hide it? I do have full Access security set up in this database, so the users can't get anywhere they're not supposed to go, but that doesn't stop them from closing this form using the control box if they can see it. MTIA! Greg Smith From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 1 10:34:16 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 17:34:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: Hi Martin and John Well, I've received much help from the list through the years, so could we consider this as payback time? "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book with a royalty split as described below". /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 01-09-2005 16:17 >>> Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Thu Sep 1 10:42:04 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:42:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: <000e01c5af0b$b454e210$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> You have a couple of options... 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit button doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you lose the min/max buttons. 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can be cancelled. Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Sep 1 11:47:11 2005 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:47:11 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: <000e01c5af0b$b454e210$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> References: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> <000e01c5af0b$b454e210$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <36552.65.118.249.214.1125593231.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Doris: Thanks for responding! I didn't realize the Form_Unload event could be cancelled. That does work and I can check it there. However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears in the upper right hand corner. Or is there another way to set that property? Greg > You have a couple of options... > > 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit button > doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you lose the > min/max buttons. > > 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. > This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed > from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can be > cancelled. > > Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... > > BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close > > Doris Manning > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 12:18:49 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:18:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? Message-ID: It can, I believe, be done with API calls, but it is definitely draconian. As long as you use the UnLoad event to make sure everything runs properly before the form closes, does it really matter? Windows doesn't want users getting trapped in a window with no way out, so it graciously shows a close button when you maximize a form. If your code breaks somehow so that your command button doesn't work (yes, I've had that happen), the window close button would be the only way short of Alt F4 to close the window. If you still want to try it, search the archives. I'm pretty sure it's been explored here before. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? Doris: Thanks for responding! I didn't realize the Form_Unload event could be cancelled. That does work and I can check it there. However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears in the upper right hand corner. Or is there another way to set that property? Greg > You have a couple of options... > > 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit > button doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you > lose the min/max buttons. > > 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. > This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed > from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can > be cancelled. > > Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... > > BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close > > Doris Manning > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Thu Sep 1 12:51:31 2005 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:51:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29087.170.206.224.25.1125597091.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Charlotte: Good point. I just demonstrated (for myself) exactly what you were talking about...getting trapped in a window with no way out. Except my only way out was to kill the program with the task manager...I didn't leave myself an out when I was testing...sigh...well, I did, but I couldn't get to it to release the form...so I was stuck. We'll just stop going down THIS road. I only have to run into the ditch a couple of times before I realize it's the wrong way... ;) Thanks again, Doris and Charlotte! Greg > It can, I believe, be done with API calls, but it is definitely > draconian. As long as you use the UnLoad event to make sure everything > runs properly before the form closes, does it really matter? Windows > doesn't want users getting trapped in a window with no way out, so it > graciously shows a close button when you maximize a form. If your code > breaks somehow so that your command button doesn't work (yes, I've had > that happen), the window close button would be the only way short of Alt > F4 to close the window. > > If you still want to try it, search the archives. I'm pretty sure it's > been explored here before. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Smith [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 9:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? > > > Doris: > > Thanks for responding! I didn't realize the Form_Unload event could be > cancelled. That does work and I can check it there. > > However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they > don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to > No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form > is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears > in the upper right hand corner. > > Or is there another way to set that property? > > Greg > >> You have a couple of options... >> >> 1) Set the Control Box property of the form to False so the exit >> button doesn't show. The only problem with this approach is that you >> lose the min/max buttons. >> >> 2) Call the code behind your Exit button from the Form_Unload event. >> This code runs when the form is closed and before the form is removed >> from memory. Unlike the Form Close Event, the Form Unload Event can >> be cancelled. >> >> Order of events when a form closes (Acces97 and up)... >> >> BeforeUpdate -> Unload -> Deactivate -> Close >> >> Doris Manning >> mikedorism at verizon.net >> From dc8 at btinternet.com Thu Sep 1 13:08:23 2005 From: dc8 at btinternet.com (Chris Swann) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:08:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Forcing a date calculation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509011808.j81I8VR21812@databaseadvisors.com> Stuart and Gustav, Many, many thanks for the replies. I will have a play and get to understand the workings for future reference. Chris From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 1 13:48:09 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 11:48:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book References: Message-ID: <43174CE9.1090103@shaw.ca> "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book. With all the usual disclaimers like wikkipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi Martin and John > >Well, I've received much help from the list through the years, so could >we consider this as payback time? > >"I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the >AccessD list in a printed book with a royalty split as described >below". > >/gustav > > > > >>>>jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 01-09-2005 16:17 >>> >>>> >>>> >Folks, > >Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily >a >"real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and >solutions >found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the >royalties >to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other >"accessd" >lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > >Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code >/ >solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we >will be >acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We >will >at the least have a section of the book with something like "the >following >people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this >book...". >I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question >/ >solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the >content. > >At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow >their >solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to >AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and >a >sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to >use >my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 13:55:22 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:55:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the before_update (on the form) firing. On 9/1/05, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Francisco > > As David indicates, use the Text property of the control to retrieve > the currently typed string before it is saved and while the control > still has focus; if it hasn't focus, Text is not available. > For a bound control, the Value property returns the stored value. > > /gustav > >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 31-08-2005 23:08 >>> > I have a bound form in an Access 2000 data project. I have a field > named txtADE, I set it to 3 and immediatly the before_update fires. > however in the before_update code if I try to reference txtADE it > shows my previous value, not the new one... what gives? > > thanks, > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 15:18:40 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:18:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update Message-ID: If you have changed the control then the value in it should be whatever you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control has actually occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue property until the Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property of a control is only available when the control has the focus, so it won't be available from the command button. Button clicks can intervene in the normal sequence of events, so if you change a value in the control and then click a button without leaving the control, the button click happens first, before the events of the control you changed. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the before_update (on the form) firing. > From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 16:14:27 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:14:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For the record, this is why I hate bound forms ;)... the only reason I'm using it this way is because it's a data entry screen, and it can hold on to data if the connection were to be severed, this has happend to me because our of our NOTwork.. :( On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > If you have changed the control then the value in it should be whatever > you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control has actually > occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue property until the > Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property of a control is only > available when the control has the focus, so it won't be available from > the command button. Button clicks can intervene in the normal sequence > of events, so if you change a value in the control and then click a > button without leaving the control, the button click happens first, > before the events of the control you changed. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 1 17:02:59 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:02:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION In-Reply-To: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <43180733.27202.965D38A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 1 Sep 2005 at 10:17, John W. Colby wrote: I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book as long as they share some of the second million they make in commission on the said book with the members of the AccessD list. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 1 17:05:41 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 08:05:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > before_update (on the form) firing. > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and form events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. -- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 19:16:56 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:16:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION Message-ID: LOL Is it Friday yet? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 3:03 PM To: AccessDBook at colbyconsulting.com Cc: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION On 1 Sep 2005 at 10:17, John W. Colby wrote: I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book as long as they share some of the second million they make in commission on the said book with the members of the AccessD list. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Thu Sep 1 19:17:11 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:17:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION References: <43180733.27202.965D38A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ..well if I wrote any you can use it anyway you see fit ...else I'd not have posted it to the list in the first place ...did I ever mention hating lawyers and snakes equally? ...but I'd not step on a snake, eh :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Cc: Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:02 PM Subject: [AccessD] PERMISSION > On 1 Sep 2005 at 10:17, John W. Colby wrote: > > I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the > AccessD list in a printed book as long as they share some of the second > million they make in commission on the said book with the members of the > AccessD list. > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 1 19:26:33 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:26:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update Message-ID: The beforeupdate of the form is happening because you have made a change to a field and then clicked on that pesky button, which must be on a different form or this wouldn't happen. The minute you leave the form containing the changed value, it triggers an update. Of course, you could use an unbound form .... ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update For the record, this is why I hate bound forms ;)... the only reason I'm using it this way is because it's a data entry screen, and it can hold on to data if the connection were to be severed, this has happend to me because our of our NOTwork.. :( On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > If you have changed the control then the value in it should be > whatever you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control > has actually occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue > property until the Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property > of a control is only available when the control has the focus, so it > won't be available from the command button. Button clicks can > intervene in the normal sequence of events, so if you change a value > in the control and then click a button without leaving the control, > the button click happens first, before the events of the control you > changed. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Sep 1 20:58:17 2005 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:58:17 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls References: <200509010801.j8181ER12524@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006e01c5af61$cded80f0$6601a8c0@user> Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - and when we came here to Oz and he saw people proudly displaying their stickers "I'm am member of the Pajero Club" I practically had to pick him up off the footpath..... :) Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:01 PM Subject: [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls This is perhaps a day early, since it's humourous, but it is also on point for those of use who attempt to market internationally. 1. The Dairy Association's huge success with the campaign "Got Milk?" prompted them to expand advertising to Mexico. It was soon brought to their attention the Spanish translation read "Are you lactating?" 2. Coors put its slogan, "Turn It Loose," into Spanish, where it was read as "Suffer From Diarrhea." 3. Scandinavian vacuum manufacturer Electrolux used the following in an American campaign: "Nothing sucks like an Electrolux." 4. Clairol introduced the "Mist Stick," a curling iron, into Germany only to find out that "mist" is slang for manure. Not too many people had use for the "Manure Stick." 5. When Gerber started selling baby food in Africa, they used the same packaging as in the US, with the smiling baby on the label. Later they learned that in Africa, companies routinely put pictures on the labels depicting the contents, since many people can't read. 6. Colgate introduced a toothpaste in France called Cue, the name of a notorious porno magazine. 7. An American T-shirt maker in Miami printed shirts for the Spanish market which promoted the Pope's visit. Instead of "I saw the Pope" (el Papa), the shirts read "I Saw the Potato" (la papa). 8. Pepsi's "Come Alive With the Pepsi Generation" translated into "Pepsi Brings Your Ancestors Back From the Grave" in Chinese. 9. The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect. Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth." -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 1 21:47:20 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 12:47:20 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls In-Reply-To: <006e01c5af61$cded80f0$6601a8c0@user> Message-ID: <431849D8.26560.A6A27A5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 2 Sep 2005 at 11:58, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new > Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - > and when we came here to Oz and A lot of it rather puerile, but there are some gems here: http://www.dazbert.co.uk/sites/rudefood/ -- Stuart From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Sep 1 22:18:30 2005 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:18:30 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls References: <431849D8.26560.A6A27A5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <000d01c5af6c$fef82050$6601a8c0@user> ROTFL!!!!! Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: Re:OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls On 2 Sep 2005 at 11:58, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new > Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - > and when we came here to Oz and A lot of it rather puerile, but there are some gems here: http://www.dazbert.co.uk/sites/rudefood/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KP at sdsonline.net Thu Sep 1 22:20:10 2005 From: KP at sdsonline.net (Kath Pelletti) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:20:10 +1000 Subject: OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls References: <431849D8.26560.A6A27A5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001501c5af6d$3a6d39e0$6601a8c0@user> ....I don't think I can get over the Creamy Collon!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: Re:OT [AccessD] International marketing becarefuls On 2 Sep 2005 at 11:58, Kath Pelletti wrote: > Reminds me of when my husband (born in Argentina) first saw the new > Mitsubishi which they named the Pajero. Not a nice word in Argentina - > and when we came here to Oz and A lot of it rather puerile, but there are some gems here: http://www.dazbert.co.uk/sites/rudefood/ -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 1 22:37:55 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:37:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: It couldn't be simpler than this, the form is bound to a view, the view source is "Select * From MyTable Where ADE <> 3" When the button is clicked it automatically fires the form's before update... ARG... the before update runs a CheckRRNumber function which checks the current line's information, that way I can assign the current line an RR number when the line item is created, if the current line has the same sn as another lineitem in the list, then I populate the RR number with the pre-existing number. "IF" the SN of the new line is diffrent then I make a round trip to the server to purchase a new line item. Private Sub cmdDELETE_Click() Me.txtADE = 3 Me.Form.Refresh End Sub Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) If Nz(Me.txtCPN, "") <> "" Then CheckRRNumber Else Cancel = True Me.Undo End If End Sub On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and form > events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. > > -- > Stuart -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 2 00:40:43 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:40:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4318727B.15018.B08E334@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 1 Sep 2005 at 20:37, Francisco Tapia wrote: > It couldn't be simpler than this, the form is bound to a view, the view > source is > "Select * From MyTable Where ADE <> 3" > > When the button is clicked it automatically fires the form's before > update... ARG... That's because you tell it to fire the update with Me.Form.Refresh. The Refresh method immediately updates the records in the underlying record source for a specified form or datasheet to reflect changes made to the data by you and other users in a multiuser environment. >the before update runs a CheckRRNumber function which > checks the current line's information, that way I can assign the current > line an RR number when the line item is created, if the current line has the > same sn as another lineitem in the list, then I populate the RR number with > the pre-existing number. "IF" the SN of the new line is diffrent then I make > a round trip to the server to purchase a new line item. > > Private Sub cmdDELETE_Click() > Me.txtADE = 3 > Me.Form.Refresh > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) > If Nz(Me.txtCPN, "") <> "" Then > CheckRRNumber > Else > Cancel = True > Me.Undo > End If > End Sub > > On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > > > > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and form > > events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Stuart From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 01:09:48 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 23:09:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm getting ready to move up to Access 2003 for production, so this will be excitingly easy as an unbound form. and I do completely agree w/ you on that. I noticed 2003 behaves so well w/ Sql Server 2000 as a Data Project, :) On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > The beforeupdate of the form is happening because you have made a change > to a field and then clicked on that pesky button, which must be on a > different form or this wouldn't happen. The minute you leave the form > containing the changed value, it triggers an update. Of course, you > could use an unbound form .... ;-} > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > For the record, this is why I hate bound forms ;)... > > the only reason I'm using it this way is because it's a data entry > screen, > and it can hold on to data if the connection were to be severed, this > has > happend to me because our of our NOTwork.. :( > > > On 9/1/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: > > > > If you have changed the control then the value in it should be > > whatever you changed it to, assuming the AfterUpdate of the control > > has actually occurred. The previous value will be in the OldValue > > property until the Form's AfterUpdate event occurs. The text property > > of a control is only available when the control has the focus, so it > > won't be available from the command button. Button clicks can > > intervene in the normal sequence of events, so if you change a value > > in the control and then click a button without leaving the control, > > the button click happens first, before the events of the control you > > changed. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Francisco Tapia [mailto:fhtapia at gmail.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:55 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form Before Update > > > > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a hidden > > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 2 02:06:16 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 09:06:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? Message-ID: Hi Greg Another option is to resize the form to exactly fill the screen area. /gustav -- However, I'd really like to just make the controlbox vanish so they don't even have the choice. But, if I set the Control Box property to No for the form on the Properties Sheet, it only applies when the form is NOT maximized. If the form is maximized, the silly thing reappears in the upper right hand corner. Or is there another way to set that property? Greg From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 2 14:37:03 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:37:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Form Before Update In-Reply-To: <4318727B.15018.B08E334@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <431807D5.26729.9684D73@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4318727B.15018.B08E334@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's what I thought too, but the before update occurs twice, when the field is changed to =3 and then again w/ the refresh, I ended up taking the before update out... and going with a sql server insert trigger :) http://sqlthis.blogspot.com/2005/09/accesssqlhow-to-satisfy-underlying.html On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 20:37, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > It couldn't be simpler than this, the form is bound to a view, the view > > source is > > "Select * From MyTable Where ADE <> 3" > > > > When the button is clicked it automatically fires the form's before > > update... ARG... > > That's because you tell it to fire the update with Me.Form.Refresh. > > > The Refresh method immediately updates the records in the underlying > record > source for a specified form or datasheet to reflect changes made to the > data by you and other users in a multiuser environment. > > > > >the before update runs a CheckRRNumber function which > > checks the current line's information, that way I can assign the current > > line an RR number when the line item is created, if the current line has > the > > same sn as another lineitem in the list, then I populate the RR number > with > > the pre-existing number. "IF" the SN of the new line is diffrent then I > make > > a round trip to the server to purchase a new line item. > > > > Private Sub cmdDELETE_Click() > > Me.txtADE = 3 > > Me.Form.Refresh > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) > > If Nz(Me.txtCPN, "") <> "" Then > > CheckRRNumber > > Else > > Cancel = True > > Me.Undo > > End If > > End Sub > > > > On 9/1/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > > > > > On 1 Sep 2005 at 11:55, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the response... but the event is actually the Form's > > > > BeforeUpdate, I tried txtADE.text but that doesnt work either. This > > > > whole process occurs from a command button that I use to mark a > hidden > > > > textbox w/ a 3, so when it receives the new value, I get the > > > > before_update (on the form) firing. > > > > > > > > > > How about posting the relevant snippets of the button, textbox and > form > > > events so that we can see exactly what you are talking about. > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -Francisco > > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 2 17:38:00 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 15:38:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Friday Humor Message-ID: <20050902223800.26108.qmail@web80810.mail.yahoo.com> Have a great holiday weekend!!! A blonde woman was speeding down the road in her little red sports car and was pulled over by a woman police officer, who was also a blonde. The blonde cop asked to see the blonde driver's license. She dug through her purse and was getting progressively more agitated. "What does it look like?" she finally asked. The policewoman replied, "It's square and it has your picture on it." The driver finally found a square mirror, looked at it and handed it to the policewoman. "Here it is," she said. The blonde officer looked at the mirror, then handed it back saying... "Okay, you can go. I didn't realize you were a cop." From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sat Sep 3 07:08:50 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 08:08:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? References: <25892.65.118.249.214.1125587255.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Message-ID: ..maximizing forms has some serious downsides, one of which you've noted ..have you considered using a tab control on a smaller form to make all of the controls accessible? ...or using vba to resize the form to screen size without maximizing it? William ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:07 AM Subject: [AccessD] Disable Control Box with Form Maximized? > Hi everyone! > > I know we've been around this topic before, but I thought I'd see if > anyone has any definitive answers about the maximized form. > > Access 2003/XP. Form has to be maximized...there just simply is not > enough room if I don't maximize it. They wanted all this stuff on it, so > I did that, but the form must be maximized to keep it all on one screen. > > I have an exit button for them to use which does everything I want, but > the dang control box (min, max, and "X") is still there and they can close > the form using the "X" if they want and it bypasses some of the code I > need to have run on closing. And the code I need run when they exit > cannot be run if they use the "X" because it must set the form in a state > where I can't check on certain fields before I allow it to close. > > Does anyone know of any way around this? Is there some clandestine (or > non-clandestine...) way to disable that control box? Or at least hide it? > I do have full Access security set up in this database, so the users > can't get anywhere they're not supposed to go, but that doesn't stop them > from closing this form using the control box if they can see it. > > MTIA! > > Greg Smith > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Sat Sep 3 14:08:06 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:08:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] GoTo Control command? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509031908.j83J88R27067@databaseadvisors.com> Assume (gasp) a form with N subforms, and said master form open in design mode. Is there a command "GoTo Control"? In my perfect world, it would search the current form then the subforms, finally either arriving at the desired control or yelling at me that no such control exists. I would want said command to be scoped by the current form and its subforms, else I might end up on an unrelated form. TIA, Arthur From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Sun Sep 4 09:47:39 2005 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 10:47:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete Message-ID: <431AD0CB.2128.3CF811@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> The list software upgrade went as smoothly as it ever has and was upgraded without a hitch. I think all totalled the lists were down for less than 10 minutes. Have a wonderful rest of the weekend. Your Listmaster, -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com A feature is a bug with seniority. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Sep 4 09:52:35 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 15:52:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete In-Reply-To: <431AD0CB.2128.3CF811@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000001c5b160$49c82f40$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> Thanks as always for your work Bryan. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Bryan Carbonnell > Sent: 04 September 2005 15:48 > To: administrivia at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete > > > The list software upgrade went as smoothly as it ever has and was > upgraded without a hitch. > > I think all totalled the lists were down for less than 10 minutes. > > Have a wonderful rest of the weekend. > > Your Listmaster, > > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com > A feature is a bug with seniority. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun Sep 4 10:02:58 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 11:02:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - List Software Upgrade Complete In-Reply-To: <000001c5b160$49c82f40$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> References: <431AD0CB.2128.3CF811@listmaster.databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 4 Sep 2005 at 15:52, Andy Lacey wrote: > Thanks as always for your work Bryan. My pleasure Andy. It gave me something to do on a boring Sunday Morning. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca A good friend will come bail you out of jail.... but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Damn... We ****ed up." From artful at rogers.com Sun Sep 4 11:20:42 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:20:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referring to a control on a subform In-Reply-To: <000001c5b160$49c82f40$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <200509041620.j84GKlT19356@databaseadvisors.com> It seems I cannot recall how you refer to a control on a subform. I want to do a couple of different things. In each case, assume that the code is in the parent form's module. a) set focus to a control on the subform With Me .subformName.Form.ControlName.SetFocus 'is this how? End With b) call a procedure in the subform's module... I assume I have to change it from a Private to a Public sub, but what syntax do I use to call the sub from outside? Is it With Me Call .subformName.ProcedureName End With c) set a control's value in the subform to a specified value. Is it With Me .subformName.Form.ControlName = 12345 End With TIA, Arthur From shamil at users.mns.ru Sun Sep 4 12:18:21 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 2005 21:18:21 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Referring to a control on a subform References: <200509041620.j84GKlT19356@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006001c5b174$a75d9d20$6501a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > a) set focus to a control on the subform Are you talking run- or design- time? Run-time: 1. set focus to form using form's .SetFocus method 2. set focus to first parent subform's control using subform control's .SetFocus method [3. set focus to the second(nested) parent subform's control (if any) using nested subform control's .SetFocus method] 4. set focus to control using control's .SetFocus method Wtih Me .SetFocus ' no need if form has focus .subformControlName.SetFocus ..subformControlName.Form.ControlName.SetFocus end With Design-time: I don't know.(It should be possible to do that using WinAPI or I guess there could be undocumented feature, which I don't know about). > b) call a procedure in the subform's module... Yes, it should be public (exception is when it's a function/sub implementing object interface). Syntax: With Me .subformControlName.Form.MethodName... End With > c) set a control's value in the subform to a specified value. Is it With Me .subformControlName.Form.ControlName.Value = 12345 End With When you write .subformName do you mean subform's control name or ... ? HTH, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 8:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Referring to a control on a subform > It seems I cannot recall how you refer to a control on a subform. I want to > do a couple of different things. In each case, assume that the code is in > the parent form's module. > a) set focus to a control on the subform > With Me > .subformName.Form.ControlName.SetFocus 'is this how? > End With > b) call a procedure in the subform's module... I assume I have to change it > from a Private to a Public sub, but what syntax do I use to call the sub > from outside? Is it > With Me > Call .subformName.ProcedureName > End With > c) set a control's value in the subform to a specified value. Is it > With Me > .subformName.Form.ControlName = 12345 > End With > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Sep 4 18:22:51 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2005 16:22:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <0IMB00B4AFLZVV@l-daemon> Hi John: Sounds like it will be perfectly acceptable to the Database Advisors... and me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sun Sep 4 22:45:23 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:45:23 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Sep 4 23:02:34 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:02:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <431C4FFA.6192.1A21FFC5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 5 Sep 2005 at 15:45, David Emerson wrote: > I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last > page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then > I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. > > How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't > use something like > > If me.page = me.pages then ... > > because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one > of the group headers. > Can you set it in the Report_footer? -- Stuart From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Sep 5 00:57:38 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:57:38 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report In-Reply-To: <431C4FFA.6192.1A21FFC5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <431C4FFA.6192.1A21FFC5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905175454.03130b20@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I tried using the Format event, but it seems that the page Footer event fires after the report footer (I have yet to confirm this using msg boxes in each event) David At 5/09/2005, you wrote: >On 5 Sep 2005 at 15:45, David Emerson wrote: > > > I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last > > page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then > > I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. > > > > How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't > > use something like > > > > If me.page = me.pages then ... > > > > because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one > > of the group headers. > > > >Can you set it in the Report_footer? > > >-- >Stuart > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 5 02:44:14 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 09:44:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report Message-ID: Hi David Add the page count to another (static) variable before you reset the page counter. If you preview the report and browse it, the plot thickens ... /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 05-09-2005 05:45 >>> I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Sep 5 03:32:02 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 9:32:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report Message-ID: <20050905083200.7A7DB2550F0@smtp.nildram.co.uk> What I'd suggest David is do your own page numbering then you can use me.page=me.pages to do the test at the end. Just Dim a long (lngPage) at the top of the report, set it to 1 in OnOpen, reset it to 1 in the OnPrint of the group footer, and then, in the OnPrint of the PageHeader set the visible page number control to the value of lngPage and increment it by 1. Don't forget to create an invisible control of = Pages or Access doesn't evaluate the page count. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "accessd at databaseadvisors.com" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Last page of Report Date: 05/09/05 07:46 Hi David Add the page count to another (static) variable before you reset the page counter. If you preview the report and browse it, the plot thickens ... /gustav >>> newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz 05-09-2005 05:45 >>> I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 5 04:13:09 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 11:13:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings Message-ID: Hi all Just noticed this tip in Access Advisor Sep. issue which I haven't heard of before: In the Property sheet, if a property has fixed options you can double-click on either the title or the setting to cycle through the options; for a Yes/No property this will, of course, simply reverse the setting. The author, David Macmurchie, claims this to work since Access 2.0 but that is not true. I haven't tested in A95 (won't run on my GB ram machine) but from A97 the tip is valid. /gustav From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Sep 5 04:52:47 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:52:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings References: Message-ID: <006e01c5b1ff$95f119f0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Gustav, No, it doesn't work in MS Access 2.0. I do use this "trick" since MS Access 97 by double-clicking on a property's value area but I didn't know the same effect can be achieved by double-clicking on a property's title area :) Thank you for this tip's info! Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 1:13 PM Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings > Hi all > > Just noticed this tip in Access Advisor Sep. issue which I haven't > heard of before: > > In the Property sheet, if a property has fixed options you can > double-click on either the title or the setting to cycle through the > options; for a Yes/No property this will, of course, simply reverse the > setting. > > The author, David Macmurchie, claims this to work since Access 2.0 but > that is not true. I haven't tested in A95 (won't run on my GB ram > machine) but from A97 the tip is valid. > > /gustav > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Mon Sep 5 04:51:25 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:51:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings Message-ID: <20050905095123.11EFE24FA03@smtp.nildram.co.uk> So you can. There's a little nugget of info. Thanks Gustav. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "accessd at databaseadvisors.com" Subject: [AccessD] Toggle/Cycle property window settings Date: 05/09/05 09:14 Hi all Just noticed this tip in Access Advisor Sep. issue which I haven't heard of before: In the Property sheet, if a property has fixed options you can double-click on either the title or the setting to cycle through the options; for a Yes/No property this will, of course, simply reverse the setting. The author, David Macmurchie, claims this to work since Access 2.0 but that is not true. I haven't tested in A95 (won't run on my GB ram machine) but from A97 the tip is valid. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Sep 5 07:04:56 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:34:56 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <005301c5b212$85b4eef0$f51865cb@winxp> David, Sample code block given below will keep track of actual page count at all times, via global variable PgCount, irrespective of multiple interference to [Page] value caused by resetting it repeatedly to 1. You can test for last page by the following style of expression. If PgCount = Me.Pages then ... Note - Please make sure that in Event tab of report's properties dialog box, [Event Procedure] appears against the events used in the code below. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================== ' Declare Global variable for tracking page count Private PgCount As Long Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) PgCount = 1 End Sub Private Sub Report_Page() PgCount = PgCount + 1 End Sub ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 09:15 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't use something like If me.page = me.pages then ... because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on one of the group headers. From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Sep 5 09:36:52 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 07:36:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News Message-ID: <004701c5b227$41b9c710$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the future: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html Rocky From colin.spence at centrelink.gov.au Mon Sep 5 10:03:09 2005 From: colin.spence at centrelink.gov.au (colin.spence at centrelink.gov.au) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 01:03:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Colin Spence/NSO/CSDA is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 05/09/2005 and will not return until 23/09/2005. I am on leave for 3 weeks. If the matter is urgent please contact Terry Bissell (383208) otherwise please contact Ray Paquola (after the 11th), Tiffany Tang or John Slokan. ********************************************************************** IMPORTANT: This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is confidential, commercially valuable or subject to legal or parliamentary privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are notified that any review, re-transmission, disclosure, use or dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited by several Commonwealth Acts of Parliament. If you have received this communication in error please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ********************************************************************** From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Sep 5 10:51:01 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 17:51:01 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 Message-ID: Hi all As to the recent threads on XML, here are some notes on how IBM adds XML support to the core of the DB2 query parser and extends SQL to directly handle, store, and index XML data without transformation: http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100937 This is still in beta but is planned for the next major release. /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 5 16:15:29 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:15:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News In-Reply-To: <004701c5b227$41b9c710$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <0IMD0000H4DQSM@l-daemon> Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the future: http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 5 16:29:49 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 14:29:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMD0016251M4H@l-daemon> Just when we all are looking towards post-relational databases along comes hierarchal/relational hybrids. Push them on a main-frame and I good to go. Fascinating... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 8:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 Hi all As to the recent threads on XML, here are some notes on how IBM adds XML support to the core of the DB2 query parser and extends SQL to directly handle, store, and index XML data without transformation: http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100937 This is still in beta but is planned for the next major release. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Mon Sep 5 16:47:10 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 17:47:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News References: <0IMD0000H4DQSM@l-daemon> Message-ID: ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less write code with them? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the > future: > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Sep 5 16:56:59 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 09:56:59 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report In-Reply-To: <005301c5b212$85b4eef0$f51865cb@winxp> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050905154155.03130100@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <005301c5b212$85b4eef0$f51865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050906095255.03138cf0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks A.D. This worked with the additional point from Andy - "Don't forget to create an invisible control of = Pages or Access doesn't evaluate the page count." Thanks to all that responded. David At 6/09/2005, you wrote: >David, > > Sample code block given below will keep track of actual page > count at all times, via global variable PgCount, irrespective of > multiple interference to [Page] value caused by resetting it repeatedly to 1. > > You can test for last page by the following style of expression. > > If PgCount = Me.Pages then ... > > Note - Please make sure that in Event tab of report's > properties dialog box, [Event Procedure] appears against the events > used in the code below. > >Best wishes, >A.D.Tejpal >-------------- > >================================== >' Declare Global variable for tracking page count >Private PgCount As Long > >Private Sub Report_Open(Cancel As Integer) > PgCount = 1 >End Sub > >Private Sub Report_Page() > PgCount = PgCount + 1 >End Sub >================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 09:15 > Subject: [AccessD] Last page of Report > > > I have a report which I want to have a different text on the last > page. If I can identify that the current page is the last page then > I am able to change the value of a text field in the footer section. > > How can I tell if the current page is the last one or not? I can't > use something like > > If me.page = me.pages then ... > > because me.page is reset back to 1 throughout the report based on > one of the group headers. >-- From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 5 17:05:37 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2005 15:05:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMD004B56PBFV@l-daemon> I was just about to throw out my Fortran manuals, PL1 is gone to the great Mainframe in the sky, Cobol is too verbose but Rexx is still cool for searching and Wilbar is a form of punishment.... Edlin was much better. With all that aside, gone are the days when you could spend a week a hundred lines of code making them perfect. That is why main-frames are so reliable. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less write code with them? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, back to the > future: > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.html > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Sep 6 00:52:24 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 06:52:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004401c5b2a7$27f494b0$62a80c54@minster33c3r25> 360 Assembler any use? And what's this zOS? In my day..... (mumble, mumble) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 05 September 2005 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less > write code with > them? :) > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, > back to the > > future: > > > > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.htm > > l > > > > Rocky > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Tue Sep 6 01:19:18 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:19:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News Message-ID: RPL, RPG, WFL and COBOL (the first object oriented language!) can all take a hike, but I feel really sad that PL1 seems to be "gorn". Now that was a well structured language, and powerful! Hacking ring zero exception handlers, woohjooo! (And you tell young people today that....) As for APL, all I can say is thank (&**&^%^&*%$#$%&T@) its gone. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Tuesday, 6 September 2005 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News 360 Assembler any use? And what's this zOS? In my day..... (mumble, mumble) -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: 05 September 2005 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > ..can you still spell COBOL, FORTRAN, or RPL ...much less write code > with them? :) > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Wow there is still jobs out there for us old-timers. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin - Beach Access Software > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:37 AM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Important Career News > > > > Boring job? Dead end career? Over 40 (important)? Then, > back to the > > future: > > > > > http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050905/news_mz1b5mainfrm.htm > > l > > > > Rocky > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 6 11:04:25 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:04:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] GoTo Control command? Message-ID: It isn't magic, but I just use the control dropdown in the toolbar to select the control. That sets the focus to it. However, you won't always be able to see the control that has the focus, because it may be obscured by other controls/subforms. You can't run code in design view unless you're using an add-in of some sort. I guess you'll just have to write an add-in for this, Arthur. ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 12:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] GoTo Control command? Assume (gasp) a form with N subforms, and said master form open in design mode. Is there a command "GoTo Control"? In my perfect world, it would search the current form then the subforms, finally either arriving at the desired control or yelling at me that no such control exists. I would want said command to be scoped by the current form and its subforms, else I might end up on an unrelated form. TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 6 16:29:55 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 14:29:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] XML and DB2 References: Message-ID: <431E0A53.3080209@shaw.ca> Actually a lot of this is similar to the XML datatype added to SQL Server 2005 and the use of FLOWR in XPath I haven't seen a comparision of methods between MS SQL and DB2, but both methods of storage are there. It does make for some very easy construction of recursive SQL to do BOM type querys for parts explosions. The Fundamentals of the SQL Server 2005 XML Datatype http://www.developer.com/db/article.php/10920_3531196_1 Use with ado.net http://www.developer.com/net/net/article.php/11087_3406251_1 XML Indexes in SQL Server 2005 http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsql90/html/forxml2k5.asp What's New in FOR XML in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Gustav Brock wrote: >Hi all > >As to the recent threads on XML, here are some notes on how IBM adds >XML support to the core of the DB2 query parser and extends SQL to >directly handle, store, and index XML data without transformation: > >http://www.db2mag.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=167100937 > >This is still in beta but is planned for the next major release. > >/gustav > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accma at sympatico.ca Wed Sep 7 05:38:38 2005 From: accma at sympatico.ca (Annie Courchesne, cma) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 08:11:49 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:11:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <200509071312.j87DCGT28158@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Listers, Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in production environment, however when I bring it into a development environment, the app fails. At the line of code: crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? Thanks for the help. From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Sep 7 08:18:40 2005 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:18:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? In-Reply-To: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Message-ID: Annie, I personally haven't seen any documentation ( haven't really looked)...but I have a box running XP Pro...and I have A97 and A2k on this machine...I have 2g of memory and everytime I try to use A97 I get an out of memory error. So far I haven't really need A97 on that machine, so I haven't tried to find the solution. Just my 2 cents...hope it helps. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Annie Courchesne, cma" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > > > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Annie > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accma at sympatico.ca Wed Sep 7 08:26:46 2005 From: accma at sympatico.ca (accma at sympatico.ca) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 9:26:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: <20050907132646.FLPO1784.tomts32-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Hi Mark, The problem my customer have does not tell him a out of memory problem. It has more to do with the traffic on the network. Whenever A97 is running the request on the Win XP Server is sky high... That server is a much faster with more memory than the previous Win2k server. Thanks for your input! Annie > > De: "Mark A Matte" > Date: 2005/09/07 mer. AM 09:18:40 GMT-04:00 > ?: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Objet: Re: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? > > Annie, > > I personally haven't seen any documentation ( haven't really looked)...but I > have a box running XP Pro...and I have A97 and A2k on this machine...I have > 2g of memory and everytime I try to use A97 I get an out of memory error. > > So far I haven't really need A97 on that machine, so I haven't tried to find > the solution. > > Just my 2 cents...hope it helps. > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > > >From: "Annie Courchesne, cma" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving'" > >Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? > >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on > >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > > > > > > > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 > >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > > > > > > > >Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > >Annie > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 08:26:52 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 09:26:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: <200509071327.j87DR5T32015@databaseadvisors.com> This KB 161255 from M$ might help... http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;161255 >>> markamatte at hotmail.com 09/07/05 9:18 AM >>> Annie, I personally haven't seen any documentation ( haven't really looked)...but I have a box running XP Pro...and I have A97 and A2k on this machine...I have 2g of memory and everytime I try to use A97 I get an out of memory error. So far I haven't really need A97 on that machine, so I haven't tried to find the solution. Just my 2 cents...hope it helps. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Annie Courchesne, cma" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? >Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 06:38:38 -0400 > >Hi, > > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > > > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > > > >Thanks! > > > > > >Annie > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 7 08:40:19 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:40:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login In-Reply-To: <200509071312.j87DCGT28158@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <0IMG008388N5UP@l-daemon> Hi Randall: Have you tested the SQL server separately to see if you can login using user name Bob... I am assuming you are not using not using Windows authentications. If that works, test to see that Crystal Report components are working and installed on the customer's computer and registered in your application. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Anthony Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Hi Listers, Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in production environment, however when I bring it into a development environment, the app fails. At the line of code: crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? Thanks for the help. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 7 08:46:51 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 06:46:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? In-Reply-To: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Message-ID: <0IMG00B278Y1CK@l-daemon> Hi Anne: I used an A97 application on a XP network for years. The app may not have been the standard as I did not use an MDB DB and wrote my own data connections.... but it worked steadily with a fair group of users. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, cma Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 3:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 09:18:54 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 10:18:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <200509071419.j87EJ8T23080@databaseadvisors.com> Jim, Your first paragraph has been verified. However, it's the second I'm having problems with. I've changed the datasource with a different login to the report, yet I still get the error 'login failed for "bob"'... It's like I'm overlooking a switch or something. I'm assuming if I see the references in the list, they're registered? I've got CR 9 ActiveX Designer and Runtime Lib, CR 9 ActiveX Designer Runtime Lib and CR Report Viewer Control 9. >>> accessd at shaw.ca 09/07/05 9:40 AM >>> Hi Randall: Have you tested the SQL server separately to see if you can login using user name Bob... I am assuming you are not using not using Windows authentications. If that works, test to see that Crystal Report components are working and installed on the customer's computer and registered in your application. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Randall R Anthony Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Hi Listers, Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in production environment, however when I bring it into a development environment, the app fails. At the line of code: crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? Thanks for the help. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 7 10:10:30 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 08:10:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Message-ID: I've used A97 on a variety of Oss, including WinXP Pro without any problems, and "performance problem" is awfully vague. You mention the server, but surely you aren't running Access on the server, are you? What version of A97 and Jet are you running? There are separate service packs for each. If you give us more specific information, you're more likely to get some useful suggestions. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Annie Courchesne, cma [mailto:accma at sympatico.ca] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 3:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie From chizotz at mchsi.com Wed Sep 7 10:21:38 2005 From: chizotz at mchsi.com (chizotz at mchsi.com) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 15:21:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <090720051521.26531.431F0581000E5BF7000067A32197924741969B019607080C@mchsi.com> Crystal is buggy as a beehive and has its own ideas about a bunch of stuff, meaning it tends to not play nice a lot of the time. It sounds like you're opening a report that has an embedded login that is overridden in the application so it runs fine in production but when you open it up to work on it in a dev environment the embedded login takes over. But that's just a guess. I've had this and all sorts of other hassles with Crystal. Good luck using it, it's not the friendliest of help sites, but here is the Crystal KB. http://support.businessobjects.com/search/default.asp?ref=default.asp_shortcuts > Hi Listers, > Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in > production environment, however when I bring it into a development > environment, the app fails. > > At the line of code: > > crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the > 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored > procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking > the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? > > Thanks for the help. From RRANTHON at sentara.com Wed Sep 7 10:38:05 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 11:38:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Crystal Reports 9 and VB6 Problem with SQL Login Message-ID: <200509071538.j87FcLT11460@databaseadvisors.com> "It sounds like you're opening a report that has an embedded login that is overridden in the application so it runs fine in production but when you open it up to work on it in a dev environment the embedded login takes over" ... is exactly what I am suspecting. Thanks for that link, I'm off to investigate. >>> chizotz at mchsi.com 09/07/05 11:21 AM >>> Crystal is buggy as a beehive and has its own ideas about a bunch of stuff, meaning it tends to not play nice a lot of the time. It sounds like you're opening a report that has an embedded login that is overridden in the application so it runs fine in production but when you open it up to work on it in a dev environment the embedded login takes over. But that's just a guess. I've had this and all sorts of other hassles with Crystal. Good luck using it, it's not the friendliest of help sites, but here is the Crystal KB. http://support.businessobjects.com/search/default.asp?ref=default.asp_shortcuts > Hi Listers, > Looking for assistance with login problem with SQL. App works fine in > production environment, however when I bring it into a development > environment, the app fails. > > At the line of code: > > crptReport.ReadRecords, which is calling the Crystal Report I get the > 'login failed for user "bob"' and a blank report. However the stored > procedures run perfectly fine with the user bob account up till invoking > the CR. Any clues or ideas where I can research this? > > Thanks for the help. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 7 11:07:59 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:07:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average Message-ID: I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 7 12:11:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:11:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Message-ID: <00eb01c5b3cf$44336bf0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Sep 7 12:21:35 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 22:51:35 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average References: Message-ID: <00ac01c5b3d0$b34462a0$4b1865cb@winxp> Chester, For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS RunningAvg FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 7 12:30:21 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:30:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Message-ID: LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 7 12:42:16 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 13:42:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00f501c5b3d3$8279f830$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 7 13:07:00 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 13:07:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average Message-ID: This works great for a running average but guess I did not make myself clear. What I need is a moving 3 month average. For example if I am on record 3 average records 1, 2 and 3. If I am on record 4 average records 2, 3 and 4 etc. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average Chester, For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS RunningAvg FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Sep 7 13:43:47 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 00:13:47 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average References: Message-ID: <041001c5b3dc$2d1783e0$4b1865cb@winxp> Chester, Sample query given below, should get the moving average (for three months) of field named Qty in table T_MA. SMonth is number type field representing month. It is presumed that there are no holes in month values. Otherwise, you will have to get the running count of months in a preliminary query and use that as the source for final query. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ===================================== SELECT T_MA.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_MA AS T1 Where T1.SMonth >= T_MA.SMonth - 2 And T1.SMonth <= T_MA.SMonth) AS MovingAvg FROM T_MA ORDER BY T_MA.SMonth; ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 23:37 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average This works great for a running average but guess I did not make myself clear. What I need is a moving 3 month average. For example if I am on record 3 average records 1, 2 and 3. If I am on record 4 average records 2, 3 and 4 etc. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average Chester, For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS RunningAvg FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks Chester Kaup From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Sep 7 15:33:52 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2005 16:33:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book References: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <431F4EB0.5020906@torchlake.com> John Colby and Martin Reid have my permission to use any email questions or answers I have ever sent to the AccessD list. I only hope that I was ever able to help someone else; it seems I am always receiving help. Three cheers for you two!!!!! Tina Norris Fields John W. Colby wrote: >Folks, > >Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a >"real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions >found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties >to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" >lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > >Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / >solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be >acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will >at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following >people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". >I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / >solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. > >At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their >solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to >AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a >sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use >my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 7 21:52:10 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:52:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers In-Reply-To: <00f501c5b3d3$8279f830$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, Never sure if my answers are of use to the great JC (stop that head swelling but have you looked at the robot stuff Radio Shack is selling? Signed Humble Student Joe -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Thu Sep 8 01:07:06 2005 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:07:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5EAB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> John if I understand well, we gonna see you in a couple of years with your son on TV in Robot Wars? The show runs on BBC television and I believe in the states to. Where a team, useualy father and son(s) build a robot (about 1 meter in size) with weapons on it to fight with other teams robots. Looks like a lot of fun building itn and see your robot, during the clash, falling in to the pit of fire getting fried by a flam trower... You would need some good electronics, mechanical and pneumatical skills :-( And probably some military tactics to.. Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John W. Colby Verzonden: woensdag 7 september 2005 19:42 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Thu Sep 8 11:59:31 2005 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 11:59:31 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Message-ID: <200509080959.j889xWXp006723@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, i developed a database in the last years, that now gives me troubles, because i now get frequently error messages, that i can't explain. I don't know if it is corrupt or that the structure isn't good. Thes errors are in one form which has many subforms, expressions, relations to other forms and writes its data throught a query in 5 tabels which are all related. This form worked 2 times half a year with no troubles, but now after several errors and copying data from the recent backend and past it into a backup, it gives to much troubles. I want to get it on the road again by writing the data to textfiles and import it in the original backend. But i would also take a better look at the structure. Because of that i want to ask if there is somebody who wants to take a look at the structure if the part of the database that gives the errror. I could strip the front and backend to the essantials and then mail it directly. Who has the time to help me out? Pedro Janssen From cyx5 at cdc.gov Thu Sep 8 06:25:55 2005 From: cyx5 at cdc.gov (Nicholson, Karen) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:25:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Message-ID: I can do it for you. If you zip me the file, change the extension to .zzz so my server can accept it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:00 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Hello Group, i developed a database in the last years, that now gives me troubles, because i now get frequently error messages, that i can't explain. I don't know if it is corrupt or that the structure isn't good. Thes errors are in one form which has many subforms, expressions, relations to other forms and writes its data throught a query in 5 tabels which are all related. This form worked 2 times half a year with no troubles, but now after several errors and copying data from the recent backend and past it into a backup, it gives to much troubles. I want to get it on the road again by writing the data to textfiles and import it in the original backend. But i would also take a better look at the structure. Because of that i want to ask if there is somebody who wants to take a look at the structure if the part of the database that gives the errror. I could strip the front and backend to the essantials and then mail it directly. Who has the time to help me out? Pedro Janssen -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Sep 8 06:41:09 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:41:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: Yeah, I never thought about the question part of it. I never seem to get any good answers in...whenever I do know the solution to something, I'm always beat to the punch. But, I have been on the receiving end of some really nice solutions. I'm sure you'll need my approval, but just in case, you have it. You both have helped me in the past, so it is the least I can do. Good Luck! John W Clark >>> tinanfields at torchlake.com 9/7/2005 4:33 PM >>> John Colby and Martin Reid have my permission to use any email questions or answers I have ever sent to the AccessD list. I only hope that I was ever able to help someone else; it seems I am always receiving help. Three cheers for you two!!!!! Tina Norris Fields John W. Colby wrote: >Folks, > >Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a >"real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions >found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties >to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" >lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. > >Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / >solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be >acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will >at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following >people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". >I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / >solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. > >At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their >solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to >AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a >sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use >my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Thu Sep 8 13:44:58 2005 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 13:44:58 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure Message-ID: <200509081144.j88Biw4i011439@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Karen, I will strip the database this weekend and will send it to you. Thanks for the help. Pedro Janssen In antwoord op: > From: "Nicholson, Karen" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 07:25:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] need help on structure > > > I can do it for you. If you zip me the file, change the extension to > ..zzz so my server can accept it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:00 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] need help on structure > > > Hello Group, > > i developed a database in the last years, that now gives me troubles, > because i now get frequently error messages, that i can't explain. I > don't know if it is corrupt or that the structure isn't good. Thes > errors are in one form which has many subforms, expressions, relations > to other forms and writes its data throught a query in 5 tabels which > are all related. This form worked 2 times half a year with no troubles, > but now after several errors and copying data from the recent backend > and past it into a backup, it gives to much troubles. > > I want to get it on the road again by writing the data to textfiles and > import it in the original backend. But i would also take a better look > at the structure. Because of that i want to ask if there is somebody who > wants to take a look at the structure if the part of the database that > gives the errror. I could strip the front and backend to the essantials > and then mail it directly. > > Who has the time to help me out? > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Sep 8 06:44:28 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 07:44:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: This, from the man who has been my savior more times than I can count ;) JW Clark >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 9/1/2005 11:34 AM >>> Hi Martin and John Well, I've received much help from the list through the years, so could we consider this as payback time? "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book with a royalty split as described below". /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 01-09-2005 16:17 >>> Folks, Martin Reid and I are writing a book for Apress which will be primarily a "real questions with real answers" format, based on questions and solutions found in the wisdom of this list. We will be donating 50% of the royalties to Database Advisors, the company that hosts AccessD and the other "accessd" lists. Martin and I will split the remaining 50% of the royalties. Due to the convolutions of copyrights, we need permission to use code / solutions in the book. We have not finalized the method used but we will be acknowledging the person providing the mentioned solution / code. We will at the least have a section of the book with something like "the following people provided solutions to questions and problems found in this book...". I am not sure it is possible to give credits embedded in each question / solution, I think it would just get too big and detract from the content. At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu Sep 8 09:11:12 2005 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:11:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF48607780579B6FF@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Could someone explain to me how to get a autonumber assigned to a record as soon as the form is opened for data input. Right now when I open the form it will not show me or assign an autonumber until I enter data in the first field. I want the number to be assigned and shown when the form opens. TIA for any help provided. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Thu Sep 8 09:42:07 2005 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:42:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <20050908144204.A1F1F24E945@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Date: 08/09/05 14:13 Could someone explain to me how to get a autonumber assigned to a record as soon as the form is opened for data input. Right now when I open the form it will not show me or assign an autonumber until I enter data in the first field. I want the number to be assigned and shown when the form opens. TIA for any help provided. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu Sep 8 09:58:07 2005 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:58:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF48607780579B701@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Thanks Andy, that is exactly what I needed. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -----Original Message----- From: Andy Lacey [mailto:andy at minstersystems.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Date: 08/09/05 14:13 Could someone explain to me how to get a autonumber assigned to a record as soon as the form is opened for data input. Right now when I open the form it will not show me or assign an autonumber until I enter data in the first field. I want the number to be assigned and shown when the form opens. TIA for any help provided. Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 09:58:17 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:58:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908144204.A1F1F24E945@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Message-ID: <20050908145819.NIJ4982.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Thu Sep 8 10:19:52 2005 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:19:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077801088A@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> I know it sounded weird, but technically the record did already exsist, the user makes the decision to go ahead and create the record and I pull info from other tables and information that they selected from a prior form and bring it over to the Invoice screen. All the needed fields were automatically filled in for the user, I was just not getting the number assigned so that the user can see it. So the On Current that Andy suggested works like a charm. I hope I made sense with that :-) Thanks again Andy Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 8 10:22:35 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:22:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A460A3@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Or why he even shows the autonumber value on the form. If the users need to know what the number is then it has a meaning in addition to its proper use as a record identifier (Primary Key). So in fact this field with a meaning to the users (or the real world) should be a separate field in the table, not an autonumber. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 10:31:11 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:31:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it should not be treated as meaningful. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gowey Mike W [mailto:Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I know it sounded weird, but technically the record did already exsist, the user makes the decision to go ahead and create the record and I pull info from other tables and information that they selected from a prior form and bring it over to the Invoice screen. All the needed fields were automatically filled in for the user, I was just not getting the number assigned so that the user can see it. So the On Current that Andy suggested works like a charm. I hope I made sense with that :-) Thanks again Andy Mike Gowey MCDST, A+, LME, NET+ Team Leader - East Region Information Systems Unit -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm interested in knowing why Mike needs the AutoNumber before the record actually exists? Susan H. Hi Mike As you've found out the autonumber only gets allocated when you begin to populate a record. Anything you do to override that is potentially going to give you problems when the user wants to cancel the creation of a record because the autonumber will still get used up. It also means in a multi-user situation that the next number will be got as you enter the screen not as you write the final record. But if that's not an issue for you, or you're prepared to deal with that then you could, for example, create a field on your table, leave it off the form then (or make it hidden) then in the OnCurrent have: If Me.NewRecord then me!fldDummy=1 'or whatever End if By forcing something into the record the autonumber will be got. But, as I say, make sure you've thought the implications through. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 10:46:15 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:46:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables and > populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > should not be treated as meaningful. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Sep 8 10:49:28 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:49:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: FW: DateDiff problem in a query _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Sep 8 10:58:48 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:58:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CD58@natexch.jenkens.com> You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: FW: DateDiff problem in a query _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 11:04:14 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:04:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > should not be treated as meaningful. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:06:29 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:06:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict Message-ID: I have a linked table to a sql server database... there are "NO Triggers" on this table. I can insert new data without any issues. I cannot edit any data via Access at all. The OS is Windows 2003 the sql server is Sql2000 SP3. If I open up the table via EM I can edit the record w/o any issues, if I update the table using QA it updates again no problems, the problem w/ the writeconflict is only when I use an Access 2000 or Access 2003 Linked table. any clues? -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... (Gmail Invites available) From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:14:59 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:14:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Francisco, Have you checked if the table has a TimeStamp Column (I said to myself). When I checked and the answer was no, I quickly added it and refreshed the Access Link, and now it works fine in both Access2000 and Access2003. Wierd eh?... btw thanks! On 9/8/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > I have a linked table to a sql server database... there are "NO > Triggers" on this table. > > I can insert new data without any issues. I cannot edit any data via > Access at all. The OS is Windows 2003 the sql server is Sql2000 SP3. > > If I open up the table via EM I can edit the record w/o any issues, if > I update the table using QA it updates again no problems, the problem > w/ the writeconflict is only when I use an Access 2000 or Access 2003 > Linked table. > > any clues? > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > (Gmail Invites available) > From john at winhaven.net Thu Sep 8 11:18:53 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:18:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? In-Reply-To: <20050907103840.YNRV21470.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@NC8230> Message-ID: <200509081618.j88GIvT16914@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Annie, I am running Access 97 on WinXP with WinXP pro PCs acting as servers and with W2k3 Servers. No Problems. Are you running the Access Program through the network? If so this is not the ideal manner in which to run Access and it will be problematic with any version of Windows. However if you are describing a connection from an Access application to an Access(.mdb) database on a server, we should be able to help you resolve the issue. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, cma Hi, Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. Thanks! Annie From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Sep 8 11:20:50 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:20:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 11:24:34 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:24:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, > period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you > have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After > all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. > I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently > have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several > local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into > a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. > We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find > a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 8 11:27:18 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:27:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <003a01c5aeff$d66b7ff0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5b492$2f685a00$6401a8c0@laptop1> John, Martin, If by some chance my name makes the cut, feel free to use it. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 11:56:11 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:56:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Doh!... Your google-fu is much better than mine ;) On 9/8/05, Roger.Carlson at spectrum-health.org < Roger.Carlson at spectrum-health.org> wrote: > > The underlying issue may be that you have a Null Bit field. See this: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/280730/EN-US/ > > Adding a timestamp is one of the solutions. Another is to create a default > value for the field. > > --Roger Carlson > http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Microsoft Access Database Discussion List > [mailto:ACCESS-L at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM]On Behalf Of Francisco Tapia > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:15 PM > To: ACCESS-L at PEACH.EASE.LSOFT.COM > Subject: Re: Write Conflict > > > Hey Francisco, > Have you checked if the table has a TimeStamp Column (I said to myself). > > > When I checked and the answer was no, I quickly added it and refreshed > the Access Link, and now it works fine in both Access2000 and > Access2003. > > Wierd eh?... btw thanks! > > On 9/8/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > I have a linked table to a sql server database... there are "NO > > Triggers" on this table. > > > > I can insert new data without any issues. I cannot edit any data via > > Access at all. The OS is Windows 2003 the sql server is Sql2000 SP3. > > > > If I open up the table via EM I can edit the record w/o any issues, if > > I update the table using QA it updates again no problems, the problem > > w/ the writeconflict is only when I use an Access 2000 or Access 2003 > > Linked table. > > > > any clues? > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -Francisco > > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > > > > (Gmail Invites available) > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The ACCESS-L list is hosted on a Windows(R) 2000 Server running L-Soft > international's LISTSERV(R) software. For subscription/signoff info > and archives, see http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/access-l.html . > COPYRIGHT INFO: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/scripts/wa.exe?SHOWTPL=COPYRIGHT&L=ACCESS-L > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Sep 8 11:56:19 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 11:56:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B747349016DF77@main2.marlow.com> I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, > period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you > have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After > all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. > I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently > have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several > local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into > a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. > We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find > a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 12:12:52 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 10:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B747349016DF77@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20050908171252.68102.qmail@web80808.mail.yahoo.com> I thought you use the heel of a shoe? :P -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. Charlotte Foust From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 8 12:46:15 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 10:46:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Problem with A97 running under WinXP? References: <200509081618.j88GIvT16914@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <432078E7.3030903@shaw.ca> I am running Access97 on WinXP, I have shifted references to use DAO 3.60 DAO 3.51 Jet Service Packs stopped at SP4, DAO 3.60 has been upgraded to SP 8 You will get about a 10% slowdown doing this as DAO 3.60 uses unicode 3.51 ANSI. and you are switching between Jet 3.5 and 4.0 But you will remove a lot of possible error conditions through the SP's. You can also get slowdowns due to a build up of data cache errors in the Backend MichKa (Michael Kaplan) made a statement that forced me to rethink this aspect. He said "For linked tables, there is a LOT of info cached by Jet in the link as an optimization. However, sometimes backend changes are made and that cached info is not invalidated as it should be, and it causes a huge perf hit as Jet tries things that fail (at which point you hit bug#2, which is that it does not invalidate it here either). I have seen cases where even RefreshLink would not totally make this work right. "The fix? If this is the problem? You should completely delete the links in the frontend, then after making sure you have recently compacted the backend, relink all the tables." Another point One common performance problems in Access - LDB locking which a persistent recordset connection fixes When the symptoms encountered indicate that performance is acceptable with a single user in the database but drops significantly when two or more users are in thedatabase, the problem may be caused by interaction with the LDB file. To resolve this issue we need a persistent connection to the back-end from each of the front-end workstations. This can be done using a bound form (hidden)which is always open or by keeping a recordset open from the BE at all times via global variable pointer to recordset .. John Bartow wrote: >Hi Annie, >I am running Access 97 on WinXP with WinXP pro PCs acting as servers and >with W2k3 Servers. No Problems. > >Are you running the Access Program through the network? If so this is not >the ideal manner in which to run Access and it will be problematic with any >version of Windows. > >However if you are describing a connection from an Access application to an >Access(.mdb) database on a server, we should be able to help you resolve the >issue. > >John B. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Annie Courchesne, >cma > >Hi, > > >Does anyone know if there's any reported problem running a A97 database on >WinXP Pro computers and a WinXP server? > >A customer of mine looks like he has performance problem with the A97 >database that we did not have when the server was under Win2K. > >Thanks! > >Annie > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 8 13:18:36 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:18:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723377F6@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Same here Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhecht at earthlink.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book John, Martin, If by some chance my name makes the cut, feel free to use it. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA At any rate, we need permissions from anyone who is willing to allow their solutions to appear in the book. Please send an email to AccessDBook at ColbyConsulting.com with a subject line of "Permission" and a sentence stating that "I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book" or something similar. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 8 14:15:39 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:15:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A461BD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your 'just want a unique number', but come the day that "the management" (or "the new guy") steps in and says "it's essential that we have a consistent numbering scheme in all of our case records. It must adhere to the following rules...", then your use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea because you have *no control* over them. Then you will be forced into generating the 'numbers' in code, so you might as well do it from the beginning. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at otda.state.ny.us Thu Sep 8 14:27:15 2005 From: Patricia.O'Connor at otda.state.ny.us (O'Connor, Patricia (OTDA)) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:27:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: <01DBAB52E30A9A4AB3D94EF8029EDBE8551E73@EXCNYSM0A1AI.nysemail.nyenet> Try something like this. SELECT t2.PID, t2.Date, t2.vm_wtri, ( Select Sum(t1.vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= t2.Date - dateadd("m",-2,t2.Date) And T1.Date <= t2.Date) AS MovingTotal, dateadd("m",-2,t2.Date) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",dateadd("m",-2,t2.Date) ,t2.Date) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] as t2 Though I wasn't sure what dates you were using because of the names. The column name was just date which is also what DATE() is. I never name DATE columns with just DATE nor do I put spaces in names. An example would be ReceiveDt or Receive_Dt - just makes things easier in the long run HTH ****************************************************************** *Patricia O'Connor *Associate Computer Programmer Analyst *OTDA - BDMA *(W) mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at dfa.state.ny.us *(w) mailto:aa1160 at dfa.state.ny.us ****************************************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Kaup, Chester > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query > > Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query > instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Elam, Debbie > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query > > You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, > Date) to get > 1 > month from the Date. > > Debbie > > > _____ > > From: Kaup, Chester > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: DateDiff problem in a query > > > > I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The > theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 > prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of > 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and > May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go > back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this > works and some it does not. The number of days back appears > to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. > > > > SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well > Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select > Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where > T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date > -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Dat > e])),[Date > ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS > MovingTotal, > DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 > Months Prior], > DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date > ])),[Date] > ) AS [Days Diff] > > FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] > > WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) > > ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; > > > > The results: > > > > PID Date vm_wtri > MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff > > 424150174300 9/1/2004 > 7/1/2004 62 > > 424150174300 10/1/2004 > 8/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 > 9/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 > 10/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 > 11/1/2004 61 > > 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 > 12/1/2004 62 > > 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 > 1/1/2005 59 > > 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 > 2/1/2005 59 > > 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 > 3/1/2005 61 > > 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 > 4/1/2005 61 > > 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 > 5/1/2005 61 > > 424150174300 8/1/2005 > 6/1/2005 61 > > > > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However > a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may > be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an > attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you > are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not > disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of > this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the > sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a > transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. > Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall > satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained > herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature > under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National > Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic > Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 8 14:30:37 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:30:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <21757728.1126196985145.JavaMail.root@sniper17> Message-ID: <000001c5b4ab$ca7d1710$0300a8c0@danwaters> I will agree to agree with Rueben! Each of the processes in my system uses the autonumber field to uniquely identify a particular record. Now everyone can refer to, "Corrective Action number 378" or something similar. The number is useful to people because it refers permanently refers to one and only one process record. Much like paper forms that were pre-serialized for uniqueness. Anything else I might do would be complex and add risk. Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same row, > period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that you > have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. After > all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. > I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently > have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several > local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into > a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. > We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find > a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 15:10:53 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:10:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A461BD@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908201055.SSVX24572.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Except that the code you went to generate that unique number from the onset probably isn't gong to "adhere to the following rules..." anymore than an AutoNumber is. ;) Susan H. Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your 'just want a unique number', but come the day that "the management" (or "the new guy") steps in and says "it's essential that we have a consistent numbering scheme in all of our case records. It must adhere to the following rules...", then your use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea because you have *no control* over them. Then you will be forced into generating the 'numbers' in code, so you might as well do it from the beginning. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 15:11:09 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:11:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 15:13:33 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:13:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 15:41:33 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:41:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the row > does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in any > way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm not > opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed to is > trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. > It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering > without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the > Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique > numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > > software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.COM Thu Sep 8 15:48:26 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.COM (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:48:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46213@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Sorry. I can't agree with that. The whole *point* of creating the 'numbers' with code is you can control it, and you can revise it when things have to change. Say you start of with a simple sequential number (not autonumber), 1,2,3 etc. Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the number display. [I know which choice I would make :) ] Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an alpha prefix that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then run an update query to add the prefix to all the existing records. Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra information can be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary Key, that's handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are intact. Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Except that the code you went to generate that unique number from the onset probably isn't gong to "adhere to the following rules..." anymore than an AutoNumber is. ;) Susan H. Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your 'just want a unique number', but come the day that "the management" (or "the new guy") steps in and says "it's essential that we have a consistent numbering scheme in all of our case records. It must adhere to the following rules...", then your use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea because you have *no control* over them. Then you will be forced into generating the 'numbers' in code, so you might as well do it from the beginning. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 8 15:53:12 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:53:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 15:54:10 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46213@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908205410.92632.qmail@web80801.mail.yahoo.com> And as Lambert mentioned, you make the change to the "number" field, one place. thats it. No changes are needed on the other tables as they are not linked on the "visible number" but on the hidden PKID. --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > Sorry. I can't agree with that. The whole *point* of > creating the 'numbers' > with code is you can control it, and you can revise > it when things have to > change. > > Say you start of with a simple sequential number > (not autonumber), 1,2,3 > etc. > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > have to be padded to 6 > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > (if it wasn't such > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > and run an update query > on the existing records to include the padding, or > find all uses of the > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > the formatting of the > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > ] > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > include an alpha prefix > that shows which office created the record". Fine > (As long as you can > identify the office within the rest of the data). > You change the 'number' > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > records and then run an update > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > what extra information can > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > just a minor pain in the > butt because of course you are not using this field > as a Primary Key, that's > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > your relationships are > intact. > > Lambert :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:11 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > Except that the code you went to generate that > unique number from the onset > probably isn't gong to "adhere to the following > rules..." anymore than an > AutoNumber is. ;) > > Susan H. > > Exactly. An Autonumber is fine to display if your > 'just want a unique > number', but come the day that "the management" (or > "the new guy") steps in > and says "it's essential that we have a consistent > numbering scheme in all > of our case records. It must adhere to the following > rules...", then your > use of the Autonumber is no longer a good idea > because you have *no control* > over them. Then you will be forced into generating > the 'numbers' in code, so > you might as well do it from the beginning. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 15:58:04 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 13:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908205804.39634.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 8 16:01:09 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:01:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <29217409.1126210759826.JavaMail.root@sniper22> Message-ID: <000001c5b4b8$70583be0$0300a8c0@danwaters> Charlotte! The meaningful value to people is that they know where they are. And that's exactly what they need. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 16:13:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:13:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46213@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050908211303.NFQH1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> My point would be -- if there are no rules, why bother until there are some? It might never happen. Susan H. Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the number display. [I know which choice I would make :) Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an alpha prefix that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then run an update query to add the prefix to all the existing records. Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra information can be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary Key, that's handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are intact. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 16:38:57 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 14:38:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Now, Susan, you've been around computers and users long enough to know that "it might never happen" is a joke! ;-> Whatever you DON'T plan for will ALWAYS happen, sooner or later! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 2:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately My point would be -- if there are no rules, why bother until there are some? It might never happen. Susan H. Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the number display. [I know which choice I would make :) Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an alpha prefix that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then run an update query to add the prefix to all the existing records. Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra information can be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary Key, that's handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are intact. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 16:38:58 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:38:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908211303.NFQH1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Exactly. Simplicity rules! Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why bother until > there are some? > It might never happen. > > Susan H. > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers have to be padded to 6 > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field (if it wasn't such > already), revise the number generator accordingly, and run an update query > on the existing records to include the padding, or find all uses of the > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change the formatting of the > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to include an > alpha prefix > that shows which office created the record". Fine (As long as you can > identify the office within the rest of the data). You change the 'number' > generating code to tack on the prefix for new records and then > run an update > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about what extra > information can > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is just a minor pain in the > butt because of course you are not using this field as a Primary > Key, that's > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all your relationships are > intact. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 16:54:19 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:54:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050908215420.KPQE660.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Yeah, I know we say that... And I always warn readers to consider it... But the truth is -- I don't see any reason to re-invent the wheel until the one you have isn't big enough -- or small enough depending on how you view the discussion. :) I once had a guy refuse to update his assignment process. He had this convoluted reasoning behind the id values he assigned to each record. He created them by hand and entered them himself. They had no real connection to the data. They were just a series of expressions he'd combined. All his hard copies used these values and were filed by them (uggggg....). Instead of just updating the entire system, he insisted we keep the routine but it was a stupid hoop to continue jumping through. The only thing that "meaningful" value did was create job security for his file clerk. On the other hand -- once worked with a system that generated values that were ... truly keen. :) It was a steel warehouse and each "type" of steel had a unique code -- truly ingenious system. :) Each digit in the resulting value meant something and once you knew the code, you knew everything you needed to know for that one value. Truly cool. It was meaningful and valuable. Fortunately, if you knew the steel business, deciphering the code was no big deal. A stranger to the business would've gotten nothing out of it. But the truth is, if the user just needed a value to connect some dots between the record displayed in the form and some piece of paper, and they didn't care what it was -- I can't think of any reason not to use an AutoNumber. If you use code to generate the value, you still have to change the code if and when the rules change. I don't see the difference in workload to implement the change. However, if the change never comes, you have saved a tad of time -- not much -- less than it took to write this message in fact -- so I'm not sure it really matters either way. :) Susan H. Now, Susan, you've been around computers and users long enough to know that "it might never happen" is a joke! ;-> Whatever you DON'T plan for will ALWAYS happen, sooner or later! From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 16:56:32 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:56:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050908215636.KQFS660.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You've been in my refrigerator! ;) Susan H. Exactly. Simplicity rules! From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Sep 8 17:18:26 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 15:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908211303.NFQH1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20050908221826.54933.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> So you don't have to go back there and fix things. It's called "building it right, the first time" :) --- Susan Harkins wrote: > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > bother until there are some? > It might never happen. > > Susan H. > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > have to be padded to 6 > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > (if it wasn't such > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > and run an update query > on the existing records to include the padding, or > find all uses of the > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > the formatting of the > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > include an alpha prefix > that shows which office created the record". Fine > (As long as you can > identify the office within the rest of the data). > You change the 'number' > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > records and then run an update > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > what extra information can > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > just a minor pain in the > butt because of course you are not using this field > as a Primary Key, that's > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > your relationships are > intact. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From KIsmert at texassystems.com Thu Sep 8 17:55:24 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:55:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: >> IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >> to create sequential numbering without >> writing a bunch code to do so. You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. -Ken From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 8 18:14:59 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:14:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >> IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >> to create sequential numbering without >> writing a bunch code to do so. You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 8 18:18:54 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:18:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908221826.54933.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050908231854.QHKV27902.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> So you don't have to go back there and fix things. =========fix what? If it's working and the rules change, you're not fixing anything, you're modifying it. It's called "building it right, the first time" :) =========well... That explains your hammer. ;) Susan H. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Sep 8 18:37:32 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:37:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BEE@main2.marlow.com> Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 8 18:57:07 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:57:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average References: <041001c5b3dc$2d1783e0$4b1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <4320CFD3.5020400@shaw.ca> If you want to do through vba code ACC2000: How to Compute Moving Averages in Visual Basic for Applications http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;210138 I would probably do this inside arrays for easier manipulation rather than SQL but then I am old Fortan guy. Just remember you can also do an exponential moving average, it puts more weight toward recent data and less weight toward past data than does the simple moving average method. This method is often called exponentially weighted. The major statistical methods with this are called Box-Jenkins. One of the better time series forecasting tools complete with vba callable api is AutoBox. But Oh my it is written in Fortran. It is around $400. http://www.autobox.com/autobox.htm A.D.Tejpal wrote: >Chester, > > Sample query given below, should get the moving average (for three months) of field named Qty in table T_MA. SMonth is number type field representing month. > > It is presumed that there are no holes in month values. Otherwise, you will have to get the running count of months in a preliminary query and use that as the source for final query. > >A.D.Tejpal >-------------- > >===================================== >SELECT T_MA.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_MA AS T1 Where T1.SMonth >= T_MA.SMonth - 2 And T1.SMonth <= T_MA.SMonth) AS MovingAvg >FROM T_MA >ORDER BY T_MA.SMonth; >===================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 23:37 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average > > > This works great for a running average but guess I did not make myself clear. What I need is a moving 3 month average. For example if I am on record 3 average records 1, 2 and 3. If I am on record 4 average records 2, 3 and 4 etc. Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 12:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving Average > > Chester, > > For computing a running result (e.g. Count/Sum/Avg etc), the order in which the fields are sorted, has also to be taken into account. > Amongst such fields, last one should be the one serving as primary key. This is meant to prevent likely overlapping values. > > Sample query given below, gets the running average for field named Qty (number type) in table T_Data, sorted on fields SDate (date type) and ID (primary key). > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > ================================= > SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Avg(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where T1.SDate < > T_Data.SDate Or (T1.SDate = T_Data.SDate And T1.ID <= T_Data.ID)) AS > RunningAvg > FROM T_Data > ORDER BY T_Data.SDate, T_Data.ID; > ================================= > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 21:37 > Subject: [AccessD] Moving Average > > I used to have a function to do a moving average in a query but I cannot find it now. Does someone have one they are willing to share? I need to do one for 3 months. Thanks > > Chester Kaup > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 8 19:10:59 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:10:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: Message-ID: <4320D313.6090505@shaw.ca> Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >>>to create sequential numbering without >>>writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure >your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference >number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Thu Sep 8 19:16:02 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:16:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Message-ID: I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the AccessD list in a printed book should they find anything that is vaguely valuable in an information sense. I do not give permission for any reader of the book to use said information in a commercial product without express permission. bruce This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Thu Sep 8 19:24:27 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:24:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 19:44:04 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908221826.54933.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Sep 8 19:44:04 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree they aren't necessarily sequential. They generally are and that's good enough for me in this argument. I agree if you HAVE to have sequential and/or consecutive numbers then you better control them manually. If not, feel free to use the autonumber for the record ID. Users LOVE it ;) Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > >> IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way > >> to create sequential numbering without > >> writing a bunch code to do so. > > You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new > values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will > change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > > So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > > If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly sure > your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next reference > number on a report using an Autonumber field. > > -Ken > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:45:46 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:45:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BEE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001c01c5b4e0$3c05e360$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL. yea, but I disagree with you first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:49:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908205804.39634.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001d01c5b4e0$bfb65a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:53:51 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:53:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 20:56:59 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 21:56:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001f01c5b4e1$c3d71060$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> No Reuben, the autonumber identifies the RECORD, not the data in the record. That is the entire point of a valueless PK. Data be damned, my PK stays the same and I never have to touch it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 21:04:16 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:04:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B747349016DF77@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <002001c5b4e2$c892a730$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> OMG, I'm a gonna die. Nothing in that whole message to disagree with. I prefer to not use my autonumber as a "case number" etc. but I will in a pinch. If the "suit" comes along and demands a "system" then I bill them to replace the simple with the arcane. If all they want is a unique number to reference a piece of data with, well... I just happen to have an autonumber already here. I MIGHT be tempted to copy it out of the autonumber field into it's own "case number" field just so the day that the "suit" sticks his nose in I won't be modifying dozens of reports, queries and forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 21:20:35 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:20:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c5b4e5$0fd2c970$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> My reason for not doing that is quite simple as I explained in a previous email. An autonumber being the PK is the only PK that makes sense , but as soon as you place meaning on it, it will require changing. The problem becomes that you use the PK as an exposed number in 5 forms, 13 queries and 12 reports. Now the "suit" comes along and requires you change it to the letters in his daughter's name, scrambled, plus her birthday, minus his mother's maiden name. You now have to go add a field to hold this new construct, and then fix all those forms, reports and queries. Better, if you are going to expose the number, that you just add a field to the table right away, and then immediately (as each record / autonumber is created) copy the autonumber into this new field. Now if the "suit" makes this ridiculous order (and it WILL happen if you DON'T plan for it), you just alter the field data type, build the ridiculous order number generator and apply it to the already existing field. The field name remains the same, the queries, forms and reports continue to work. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the software. Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have been > assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as someone > else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. It has no > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > should not be treated as meaningful. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Thu Sep 8 21:30:25 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:30:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001d01c5b4e0$bfb65a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this discussion goes on...pretty cool... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Sep 8 21:49:33 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:49:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> References: <001d01c5b4e0$bfb65a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: On 08/09/05, Dian wrote: > Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this > discussion goes on. And on, and on, and on and on and on....... :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 8 21:49:57 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2005 22:49:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <48uv17$54b4rn@mxip26a.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <002301c5b4e9$2eefe320$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> One time was a bad accident, correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dian Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this discussion goes on...pretty cool... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:13:01 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:13:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF0@main2.marlow.com> You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:15:06 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:15:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF1@main2.marlow.com> Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:16:21 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:16:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF2@main2.marlow.com> No you don't...oh wait, sorry, that was just simply normal 'programmed' responses to your posts! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately LOL. yea, but I disagree with you first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:38 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Not true, honestly! Now, I may disagree with JC on principle alone... Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ah, but Drew, you ALWAYS disagree with me ... On principle if for no other reason. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:26:15 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:26:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF3@main2.marlow.com> Okay, who are you, and what did you do with JC?!?!?!?!?! Kidnapping is a felony, but more importantly, so is computer fraud, so whoever you are, it's been fun, but JC NEVER agrees with me, so you can just quit the act now! ;) Just kidding JC. I have 2 systems in mind. One is our online shopping cart. Initially, the 'Invoice Number' was the CartID (AN), with a few zeros thrown in the front. Before the system went live, however, it was announced that the Invoice numbers had to be sequential for accounting reasons. Okay, no problem, I built the entire system with Classes, so it was a five minute fix to switch the entire system to use a new table with sequential Invoice Numbers. The second system, is the ISFE (our IS request tracking system). Just to have a 'ticket number', I give the user the autonumber. Quick easy, it's my system, so there are no rules, and honestly, if there are ever rules applied (for whatever asinine reason), I won't be there! Anyhow, in case 1, I used an AN with no rules. Rules we applied mid development. AN was dropped. Lesson learned, use classes, because it makes your life a LOT easier! ;) In case 2, the Autonumber works perfectly. Most of my other systems use AN's for keys, but I have a more 'meaningful' key for the user to see. Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately OMG, I'm a gonna die. Nothing in that whole message to disagree with. I prefer to not use my autonumber as a "case number" etc. but I will in a pinch. If the "suit" comes along and demands a "system" then I bill them to replace the simple with the arcane. If all they want is a unique number to reference a piece of data with, well... I just happen to have an autonumber already here. I MIGHT be tempted to copy it out of the autonumber field into it's own "case number" field just so the day that the "suit" sticks his nose in I won't be modifying dozens of reports, queries and forms. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have driven a nail with a screwdriver. Of course, when that is the only tool you have, and you need to punch a nail out of something, then it's either the screwdriver, or a part of your own body. I'll go with the screwdriver. As for the whole 'primary', 'natural', 'surrogate' key issue, I agree with you Reuben, an Autonumber can do both tasks, being a primary key, and a useful peice of data. With one exception, if it acts as useful data, there can be no rules other then it is to be unique placed on it. For example, if you need SEQUENTIAL Invoice Numbers, an Autonumber would not be valid, but you may end up with non-sequential numbers. If you just need a unique 'reference' number, then it is fine to use an Autonumber. Just my opinion though folks, and I'm sure I'm going to have arguments thrown against me for it! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in the same row. IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big fan of simplicity. This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to disagree ;) BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is acceptable. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form for > several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely enter the > data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have to remain > available. We number every form we put in so that the user can then > search and find a paper copy by using the number generated by the > software. > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly (we > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set of > data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other tables > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the autonumber. > > It has no > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and it > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:29:17 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:29:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF4@main2.marlow.com> It wouldn't keep going on if we could just agree on a method of identifying the posts and points. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 08/09/05, Dian wrote: > Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this > discussion goes on. And on, and on, and on and on and on....... :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 00:35:21 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:35:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <005901c5b500$4597c950$6401a8c0@laptop1> Is there really close to 100 messages in this thread or did the Earthlink server have another seizure? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM To: access at joe2.endjunk.com; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Fri Sep 9 00:45:59 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:45:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Do you mean the old "create a table with the new start number and append it" method or something else? bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 00:53:38 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:53:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BFB@main2.marlow.com> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a property within an ADO recordset, that if you remove all the records, you can 'reset' the Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, if I remember correctly....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Do you mean the old "create a table with the new start number and append it" method or something else? bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 01:24:17 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 23:24:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export Form / Save In shortcut box Message-ID: Whenever you export a form, or save a query etc, in Access 2000/2003 you get this getsaveas dialog box with some quick shortcuts to desktop/my documents etc. I'd like to add my personal "Build" shortcut to this... anyone know the correct keywords for google, I've been staying up late for the last couple of weeks and I'm just drained :(. can't seem to pick the right keywords for goole :) Thanks in advance... -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Fri Sep 9 01:27:08 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:27:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Drew, I'm not being clear. What I want/need is a restartable, subsettable and reusable numbered data item. IOW I can have lots and lots of the same numbered item in the table. The numbering is restarted from 1 at each test cycle. So test script "GA4578" may be executed as script number 321 in cycle 1, 712 in cycle 2, 14 in cycle 3 etc. Essentially its just a human usable "timestamp" of the order the test was executed in (i.e. that lines up with the test logs). Script GA4578 is a subsetted autonumber created during the test design phase - it is composite of usecase abbrev + subset number, i.e. this is script 4578 for "general accounts". There is also a TD4578 script and a FP4578 etc etc. In postgres, (which is where I have been for the last several years btw) you can set any number of sequence fields in a row and generate the above things quite easily using sequence "triggers" - once the initial set up has been done they all number automagically. Now that I have been forced back to an M$ environment I'm just having a grumble that autonumber just doesn't give me what I need. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a property within an ADO recordset, that if you remove all the records, you can 'reset' the Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, if I remember correctly....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Do you mean the old "create a table with the new start number and append it" method or something else? bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 3:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You can 'restart' an autonumber. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bruen, Bruce [SMTP:Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. bruce -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, 9 September 2005 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential >>>numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From pedro at plex.nl Fri Sep 9 09:47:04 2005 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:47:04 (MET DST) Subject: [AccessD] adding control number Message-ID: <200509090747.j897l486023690@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Gustav, i used the function below in a query, SELECT Right(ModulusAppend(PatientID,10),Len(PatientID)) AS Expr1 FROM tblPatientgegevens; but the result wasn't correct. In the list of about 3000 PatientID's i checked three ID's by hand, but the results didn't match with the results from the function. 00100499 (ID) 01004993 (function) 01004994 (check by hand) 00100905 (ID) 01009059 (function) 01009056 (check by hand) 00111843 (ID) 01118439 (function) 01118434 (check by hand) Is it possible for you to check the function? Thanks Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] adding control number > Hi Pedro > > Looks like a Modulus 10 check digit calculation. > Below is a function that will do this for you in a maintainable way. > > Use it like this: > > strChk = Right(ModulusAppend("00327833", 10), Len("00327833")) > > /gustav > > > > Function ModulusAppend( _ > ByVal strNumber As String, _ > ByVal intModulus As Integer) _ > As String > > ' Appends a Modulus 10 or 11 check digit to strNumber. > ' > ' 1999-10-08. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. > > Dim intC As Integer, intF As Integer, intN As Integer > Dim intL As Integer, intM As Integer, intT As Integer > Dim strNumCheck As String > Dim strNumChr As String > Dim strNumClean As String > > ' Max. length of number. > intM = 32 - 1 > > If intModulus = 10 Or intModulus = 11 Then > intL = Len(strNumber) > ' Remove non-digits. > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > strNumChr = Mid(strNumber, intN + 1, 1) > If (Asc(strNumChr) >= 48) And (Asc(strNumChr) <= 57) Then > strNumClean = strNumClean & strNumChr > End If > Next intN > strNumber = strNumClean > intL = Len(strNumber) > End If > > If intL > 0 And intL <= intM Then > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > intC = Val(Mid(strNumber, intL - intN, 1)) > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intF = (1 + ((intN + 1) Mod 2)) > intC = intF * intC > intC = Int(intC / 10) + (intC Mod 10) > Case Is = 11 > intF = 2 + (intN Mod 6) > intC = intF * intC > End Select > intT = intT + intC > Next > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intC = intT - (intT Mod intModulus) + intModulus > strNumCheck = Format((intC - intT) Mod intModulus, "@") > Case Is = 11 > intC = intModulus - (intT Mod intModulus) > Select Case intC > Case Is = 11 > ' A check digit for this number cannot be calculated! > strNumber = vbNullString > intC = 0 > Beep > Case Is = 10 > intC = 0 > End Select > strNumCheck = Format(intC, "@") > End Select > strNumber = strNumber & strNumCheck > Else > strNumber = "0" > End If > > ModulusAppend = strNumber > > End Function > > > > > >>> pedro at plex.nl 26-08-2005 11:11 >>> > Hello Group, > > I have an ID (text, because it begins with 00) that exist of 8 > numbers. > I need to change this ID by removing the first 0, and by adding a extra > control number. > This control number can be calculated from this ID. This can be done by > several query's. Is it possible to do in one query?? > > For example. > > I have ID: 00327833 > > Take the number of the odd positions: 0 3 7 3 > > Place these numbers behind each other to make one number: 0373 > > Multiply this number with 2: 0373 x 2 = 0746 > > Count up the separate numbers from this last multiplication: 0 + 7 + > 4 + 6 = 17 > > >From the original ID, take the even positions: 0 2 8 3 > > Count up the separate numbers from the even positions with the sum of > the last count up: 17 + 0 + 2 + 8 + 3 = 30 > > The last number of the previous sum is the extra control number: 0 > > >From the original ID, remove the first 0 and add the control number: > 03278330 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 06:32:59 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:32:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063127.028f18c8@pop3.highstream.net> Sorry bruce, but once it is published, you really do not have a say in the matter. And, since this is a public forum, you really do not have much of a say in how anything posted here, by you or anyone else is used. Welcome to the world of the Internet. Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:16:02 +1000 >From: "Bruen, Bruce" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the >AccessD list in a printed book should they find anything that is vaguely >valuable in an information sense. I do not give permission for any >reader of the book to use said information in a commercial product >without express permission. > >bruce From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 06:38:22 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 06:38:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063349.0292e850@pop3.highstream.net> Bruce, No, the real problem is the misuse of it. Autonumber is perfect for what it is designed for. It is the uses that people put to it, like the ones you listed that make it "suck." Stop trying to use it for things it was not designed to do. Oh, if you want more than one autonumber per table, try Oracle, you can do it with their "sequence" definitions. Though, it is really more like a trigger that numbers things than an autonumber. Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:24:27 +1000 >From: "Bruen, Bruce" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >The real problem is that you can only have one autonumber field in a >record - so by convention "we" all now expect it to be used as a >surrogate key. I have many, many times needed one or more unique >identifiers (user visble). Example, in a test management db I need to >automagically number a test scenario and also assign a sequential unique >number to its execution id. In addition, how many problems could be >solved by a "grouped" or restartable autonumber. >Quite frankly AFAIC autonumber sucks for all uses. > >bruce From nd500_lo at charter.net Fri Sep 9 06:48:07 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 04:48:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <002301c5b4e9$2eefe320$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <48vje6$1cq4aap@mxip15a.cluster1.charter.net> Yes, it was. Good memory, John! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately One time was a bad accident, correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dian Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Hmmmmmm....me, too...my life has turned upside down twice...and this discussion goes on...pretty cool... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ahhh, I do so love this debate. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 07:02:31 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 07:02:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063946.02977990@pop3.highstream.net> A lot of the referrals that I get are from people that used people that think they are Access programmers, but know nothing about database design and the applications they write require a complete rewrite to actually work. I have to go in and FIX the disaster that the client ended up with. When I worked at the Army proving grounds in Yuma, we had a saying. "It takes an engineer to tear something apart, but a good technician to put it back together again." A well thought out design is not over-building. But, it also will not have to have any major changes over the years because of the thought that went into it. Sounds like you thought it out if it has been running that long. :-) Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 >From: "Reuben Cummings" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >It can also be called over-building. > >I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it >with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor >bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it >right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to >completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in >October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing >back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - >they were overbuilding the project. > >The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works >perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since >2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and >therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work >records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. > >Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code >or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. > >I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never >had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up >in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are >happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. > >Reuben Cummings >GFC, LLC >812.523.1017 From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 07:11:36 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:11:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46217@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: Lambert, I can see the old OK debate coming back. Actually, you argued against yourself in your last post where you said someone might want to prefix an Alpha that represents a branch code; you've now crossed the line from meaningless to meaning full. You now have the branch code stored in two places (once in the key and once in the table), so it's possible to get a mis-match. You've also now forced the key to change if the branch code changes. If you say, "well I wouldn't put the branch code in the table a second time", then you've broken the first rule of normalization, which is that all values should be atomic. The key in this case is a composite value. Surrogate keys only exist and make sense because of real world limitations in current computer systems. But in terms of relational theory, their fallacy is that they do not have any meaning in relation to the data. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 07:21:55 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 07:23:38 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:23:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050908205804.39634.qmail@web80802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: David, <> But is that a fault of the design or the fault of the DBS/Computer system (I'm assuming your implying that performance was poor). Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately You shuld see the ERP system I am working with Lambert...ugh... Natural keys, 3 to 5 PKs per table. table joins require three to five joins. THis would have been simplified with one autonumber PK. Header tables are stored with detail tables (child) totals. I would never think of selling a system like this, I don't know how companies can put out dtuff like this. David --- "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: > For some wild reason this issue just never goes > away. I for one (in my > simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need > to use a composite key, > natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. > Dumb old AutoNumbers fit > the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the > rows perfectly. To my > way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys > to maintain table > relationships is asking for trouble because users > have a nasty habit of > wanting to alter data. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > If that's the argument then we could never create a > perfect ID because the > data can always change regardless of how the > programmer decides to ID it. > Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D > the data can always chnage > and both ID's can and will always get me to the > proper place. > > For your scenario to be correct so that an ID > identifies the data then the > programmer would need to make a routine that would > take parts of several > fields and piece it together. However, if the data > changes one of two > things will happen. One, the created ID will not > match the new data if the > programming does not change it upon a data change. > Or, two, the ID is > changed and then the ID does not match an ID that > may have been written on a > paper version of an application, for example, and > then there is no way to > know what record relates to that paper copy. > > I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. > The number ID's the row. > The data is in the row ID'd by the number. > Therefore the number identifies > the data. > > Damn, I got drug back into this thing. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change > but the data in the > > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't > identify the data in > > any way, merely the row that the data happens to > be stored in. I'm > > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the > time. What I'm opposed > > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a > meaningful value. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen > a case where > > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of > data it is connected > > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have > never agreed to the > > statement that the data is separate from the > autonumber - they ARE in > > the same row. > > > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to > create sequential > > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. > The fact that it can > > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. > Why include two > > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do > two jobs? I'm a big > > fan of simplicity. > > > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again > - so I agree to > > disagree > > ;) > > > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail > with a screwdriver > > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a > valid method. :) > > I'll let the list know if I ever do. However, an > adjustable wrench is > > acceptable. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On > Behalf Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always > points to the same > > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely > independent from the > > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the > intense discussions of > > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", > etc. The fact that > > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any > more valid a usage. > > > After all, you can drive nails with a > screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Reuben Cummings > [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem > solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned > Immediately > > > > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no > showing an > > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't > be shown. > > > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. > For example, we > > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a > state required form > > > for several local counties. Our solution to > digitize is merely > > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, > the paper copies have > > > to remain available. We number every form we put > in so that the user > > > can then search and find a paper copy by using > the number generated > > > by the software. > > > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and > it worked perfectly > > > (we > > > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry > persons for one county. > === message truncated === -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 08:12:01 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:12:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <001e01c5b4e1$5c59fdd0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909131200.XDOS25279.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC, I won't call them silly... That could get me hurt. Besides, it's kind of like religion -- can't trash people on their choice of pk God. :) But I agree on the rest. I've always used AutoNumbers. I've only written about using natural -- never experienced it myself -- kind of like camping. I know other people do it... Susan H. Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 08:17:25 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:17:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063946.02977990@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <002f01c5b540$d1f9f180$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I grew up in Yuma. Actually out in the Bard valley (over in California) about 12 miles from town. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately A lot of the referrals that I get are from people that used people that think they are Access programmers, but know nothing about database design and the applications they write require a complete rewrite to actually work. I have to go in and FIX the disaster that the client ended up with. When I worked at the Army proving grounds in Yuma, we had a saying. "It takes an engineer to tear something apart, but a good technician to put it back together again." A well thought out design is not over-building. But, it also will not have to have any major changes over the years because of the thought that went into it. Sounds like you thought it out if it has been running that long. :-) Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:44:04 -0500 >From: "Reuben Cummings" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >It can also be called over-building. > >I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote >it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with >very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought >"building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately >set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March >of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and >gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build >everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. > >The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that >works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good >money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but >never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the >details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in >programming time. > >Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" >code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for >them. > >I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have >never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been >caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my >clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is >just fine. > >Reuben Cummings >GFC, LLC >812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 08:20:26 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:20:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050909131200.XDOS25279.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <003001c5b541$3db63460$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >JC, I won't call them silly... Yea, but sometimes I just HAVE to stir the pot... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately JC, I won't call them silly... That could get me hurt. Besides, it's kind of like religion -- can't trash people on their choice of pk God. :) But I agree on the rest. I've always used AutoNumbers. I've only written about using natural -- never experienced it myself -- kind of like camping. I know other people do it... Susan H. Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Sep 9 08:28:17 2005 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:28:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C8318807226013@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Nyet to pot-stirring! Andy is away and I promised to make sure y'all behave yourselves. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 09 September 2005 14:20 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >JC, I won't call them silly... Yea, but sometimes I just HAVE to stir the pot... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately JC, I won't call them silly... That could get me hurt. Besides, it's kind of like religion -- can't trash people on their choice of pk God. :) But I agree on the rest. I've always used AutoNumbers. I've only written about using natural -- never experienced it myself -- kind of like camping. I know other people do it... Susan H. Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 08:27:06 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:27:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003101c5b542$34c371a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 9 08:46:35 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:46:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46335@xlivmbx21.aig.com> If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 08:46:10 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:46:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <003101c5b542$34c371a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 9 08:54:17 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:54:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] adding control number Message-ID: Hi Pedro Try counting from right to left as the number of leading zeroes has no influence on the check digit. In your original example, the check digit is zero for counting both from left and right: 00338723 00327833 but that's a special case. I was only assuming you were adding a standard Modulus 10 check digit which my function does. If you read it closer you'll see that my function does a little more than your calculation. Thus, of course, the results may be different. /gustav I think your specification is wrong: > Take the number of the odd positions: 0 3 7 3 > > Place these numbers behind each other to make one number: 0373 > > Multiply this number with 2: 0373 x 2 = 0746 Normally you would pick each digit and multiply by 2: 0 + 6 + 14 + 6 = 26 Add even positions' digits: 26 + 0 + 2 + 8 + 3 = 39 >>> pedro at plex.nl 09-09-2005 09:47:04 >>> Hello Gustav, i used the function below in a query, SELECT Right(ModulusAppend(PatientID,10),Len(PatientID)) AS Expr1 FROM tblPatientgegevens; but the result wasn't correct. In the list of about 3000 PatientID's i checked three ID's by hand, but the results didn't match with the results from the function. 00100499 (ID) 01004993 (function) 01004994 (check by hand) 00100905 (ID) 01009059 (function) 01009056 (check by hand) 00111843 (ID) 01118439 (function) 01118434 (check by hand) Is it possible for you to check the function? Thanks Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] adding control number > Hi Pedro > > Looks like a Modulus 10 check digit calculation. > Below is a function that will do this for you in a maintainable way. > > Use it like this: > > strChk = Right(ModulusAppend("00327833", 10), Len("00327833")) > > /gustav > > > > Function ModulusAppend( _ > ByVal strNumber As String, _ > ByVal intModulus As Integer) _ > As String > > ' Appends a Modulus 10 or 11 check digit to strNumber. > ' > ' 1999-10-08. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. > > Dim intC As Integer, intF As Integer, intN As Integer > Dim intL As Integer, intM As Integer, intT As Integer > Dim strNumCheck As String > Dim strNumChr As String > Dim strNumClean As String > > ' Max. length of number. > intM = 32 - 1 > > If intModulus = 10 Or intModulus = 11 Then > intL = Len(strNumber) > ' Remove non-digits. > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > strNumChr = Mid(strNumber, intN + 1, 1) > If (Asc(strNumChr) >= 48) And (Asc(strNumChr) <= 57) Then > strNumClean = strNumClean & strNumChr > End If > Next intN > strNumber = strNumClean > intL = Len(strNumber) > End If > > If intL > 0 And intL <= intM Then > For intN = 0 To intL - 1 > intC = Val(Mid(strNumber, intL - intN, 1)) > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intF = (1 + ((intN + 1) Mod 2)) > intC = intF * intC > intC = Int(intC / 10) + (intC Mod 10) > Case Is = 11 > intF = 2 + (intN Mod 6) > intC = intF * intC > End Select > intT = intT + intC > Next > Select Case intModulus > Case Is = 10 > intC = intT - (intT Mod intModulus) + intModulus > strNumCheck = Format((intC - intT) Mod intModulus, "@") > Case Is = 11 > intC = intModulus - (intT Mod intModulus) > Select Case intC > Case Is = 11 > ' A check digit for this number cannot be calculated! > strNumber = vbNullString > intC = 0 > Beep > Case Is = 10 > intC = 0 > End Select > strNumCheck = Format(intC, "@") > End Select > strNumber = strNumber & strNumCheck > Else > strNumber = "0" > End If > > ModulusAppend = strNumber > > End Function > > > > > >>> pedro at plex.nl 26-08-2005 11:11 >>> > Hello Group, > > I have an ID (text, because it begins with 00) that exist of 8 > numbers. > I need to change this ID by removing the first 0, and by adding a extra > control number. > This control number can be calculated from this ID. This can be done by > several query's. Is it possible to do in one query?? > > For example. > > I have ID: 00327833 > > Take the number of the odd positions: 0 3 7 3 > > Place these numbers behind each other to make one number: 0373 > > Multiply this number with 2: 0373 x 2 = 0746 > > Count up the separate numbers from this last multiplication: 0 + 7 + > 4 + 6 = 17 > > >From the original ID, take the even positions: 0 2 8 3 > > Count up the separate numbers from the even positions with the sum of > the last count up: 17 + 0 + 2 + 8 + 3 = 30 > > The last number of the previous sum is the extra control number: 0 > > >From the original ID, remove the first 0 and add the control number: > 03278330 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 09:00:57 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:00:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003e01c5b546$ebc6ce20$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I have been using Access for databases, and autonumbers for PKs since 1994 and have never lost data due to PK / FK issues. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys >get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 09:20:11 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 10:20:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46335@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <004001c5b549$9b87b750$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> PKs are nothing more than pointers to child records. If a table has no child objects, then it has no need for a PK. If you break out the multiple uses that developers have traditionally give the PK into its component pieces, you have the pointer function, and the unique index function. They are entirely different functions, with entire different requirements. One does not replace the other, the pointer function is not always required, the unique index is not always required. If you break the pieces apart and deal with them separately then you have the ability to deal with them as required by that piece. I ALWAYS add an autonumber PK ID to every table, just as a matter of course. Understand that the PK is nothing more than a pointer to child records in related tables. I don't always need one, but I just put it there. This is a long int, automatically handled by the database engine and has little (almost no) overhead, so I "just do it". I ALWAYS analyze whether I need a unique index on a table. When I need to prevent adding duplicate data, I add a unique index. MOST of my tables have a unique index, but not every single one. The fact that I use an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve me of the responsibility of analyzing whether I need a unique index, and if so which field or fields will make up the unique index. PKs and unique indexes are different constructs and serve different purposes. Neither of them are always required. If you break these two things apart and treat them as the separate entities that they truly are, then it becomes possible to use each for the exact purpose that they exist, and makes it almost trivial to determine when and where each is needed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 9 09:21:54 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:21:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46361@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Ditto, with Access 1.0 and up. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have been using Access for databases, and autonumbers for PKs since 1994 and have never lost data due to PK / FK issues. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 09:42:53 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:42:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004001c5b549$9b87b750$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909144253.WAZU27902.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC -- you made this point once before and I thought it was so timely discussion then -- as so now. Martin and I actually collaborated on an article on pk's -- got a lot of interesting feedback on that one. ;) Some of the feedbacks useless, some of it's pretty good. As in any discussion, you always have a few that just want to sound flashy, but really add nothing of substance. http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11-1045050.html?tag=search I don't like the way the edited it though -- I guarantee you that neither Martin or I said social security numbers were a good key candidate. Editors aren't always the best technical minds and some publishers never ask -- they just edit and publish. I'm not necessarily the best technical mind either for that matter -- but I know where to find them and always ask lots of questions. :) FWIW, I have no real opinion on the subject -- it's a personal thing -- use the keys you like and that work for you and respect my choice as well. ;) Now here's a really controversial one: http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-22_11-1050688.html?tag=sc Martin fueled that one, so don't blame me -- I just wrote it up. ;) I got a few ugly emails on this one -- some people chose to misunderstand the article's real purpose. Again, I think we have been badly edited in a few spots... Susan H. The fact that I use an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve me of the responsibility of analyzing whether I need a unique index, and if so which field or fields will make up the unique index. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Sep 9 09:50:35 2005 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:50:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909090341.02907bc0@pop3.highstream.net> It is a natural consequence of life. There are always going to be natural or business keys that are composites. For example, your full name is not unique. But combine the first, last, and middle name with your SSN and the odds are very good that the combination would be a unique natural/business key. But, I would never be stupid enough to use that combination as a primary key for any reason. Surrogate keys, autonumber or Base36, are quite adequate for me. Base36 is really cool if you want to drive the autonumber, everything has to be sequential, Nazi's crazy. The same ID never occurs in the entire database twice. Characters in PK Possible unique records 6 2,176,782,336 7 78,364,164,096 8 2,821,109,907,456 9 101,559,956,668,400 10 3,656,158,440,062,000 Hands down, surrogate keys are the best design technique. Then enforcing natural keys, candidate keys, and business keys through indexing or constraints to keep your data clean. Performance is always going to be poor when you have to join with multiple columns across tables. It does not matter what DB you use. Robert At 08:27 AM 9/9/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:23:38 -0400 >From: "Jim Dettman" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >David, > ><require three to five joins. THis would have been >simplified with one autonumber PK.>> > > But is that a fault of the design or the fault of the DBS/Computer system >(I'm assuming your implying that performance was poor). > >Jim. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Sep 9 10:20:05 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:20:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F15A46335@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: Lambert, <> The bug was in the generation of the key value, not messing up the field itself. My point was, since it's the DBS system that controls the field, it would be possible for a software bug to scramble an autonumber field and leave everything else untouched. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:21:29 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:21:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: True! Working with GUIDs is a total PITA, and you can't even type them in. LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Just use autonumber keys that are GUID's and watch the tears flow. Charlotte Foust wrote: >And even if they are sequential, it doesn't mean they're consecutive! > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:55 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > >>>IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way >>>to create sequential numbering without >>>writing a bunch code to do so. >>> >>> > >You can't assume Autonumbers are sequential. You can specify random new >values for an Autonumber field. Further, for replication, Access will >change all Autonumber fields to random, to reduce key collisions. > >So, you can only assume that Autonumbers are unique. > >If you change Autonumber modes, knowingly or not, you can be fairly >sure your users will freak when they see "-1.07E+09" as the next >reference number on a report using an Autonumber field. > >-Ken > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:24:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:24:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:27:37 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:27:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Yeah, and expect it to keep happening, too! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 10:27:26 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:27:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004201c5b552$fb95ee60$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Lambert, <> The bug was in the generation of the key value, not messing up the field itself. My point was, since it's the DBS system that controls the field, it would be possible for a software bug to scramble an autonumber field and leave everything else untouched. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If this mysterious data storage bug trashes autonumbers, how does it magically leave the data alone so you can still construct your natural keys? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 10:31:38 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:31:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004201c5b552$fb95ee60$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909153138.DDZM12830.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Either way -- sounds like reasons for routine backups and not a reason to not use a feature. OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Susan H. Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 10:34:16 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:34:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004301c5b553$f0186210$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Whooooosh... ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri Sep 9 10:37:01 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:37:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5BF1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:35:33 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:35:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: You've got that one right, and it was a real headache. But it is not germane to the issues under discussion because it didn't foul up *existing* keys. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys >get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. A bug where the CONTENTS of a field get scrambled is much more likely which would affect natural keys more quickly than surrogate keys if for no other reason than that surrogate PK keys are normally non-changeable (read only) at the db engine level whereas natural keys by their very definition HAVE to be read / write because the data may change. I think arguing that the db engine MIGHT screw up is grasping at straws whereas natural keys can and do change almost on a daily basis somewhere in the world, an established fact, accepted by all. I'll take the "might" over the "does daily" every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, <> True, but if there is ever a bug in your storage system and your keys get scrambled, then your really up a creek. A natural PK design would not be as the key is always constructed from the data. Granted, something that fundamental would (one hopes) get caught pretty quick, and there are always backups. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately For some wild reason this issue just never goes away. I for one (in my simple way of thinking) have never ever seen a need to use a composite key, natural key, surrogate key, call it what you will. Dumb old AutoNumbers fit the bill just fine for me. As you say, they ID the rows perfectly. To my way of thinking anyone who depends on natural keys to maintain table relationships is asking for trouble because users have a nasty habit of wanting to alter data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 4:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately If that's the argument then we could never create a perfect ID because the data can always change regardless of how the programmer decides to ID it. Whether I use autonumber 6 or custom ID ZX4-TD54D the data can always chnage and both ID's can and will always get me to the proper place. For your scenario to be correct so that an ID identifies the data then the programmer would need to make a routine that would take parts of several fields and piece it together. However, if the data changes one of two things will happen. One, the created ID will not match the new data if the programming does not change it upon a data change. Or, two, the ID is changed and then the ID does not match an ID that may have been written on a paper version of an application, for example, and then there is no way to know what record relates to that paper copy. I beleive the autonumber DOES identify the data. The number ID's the row. The data is in the row ID'd by the number. Therefore the number identifies the data. Damn, I got drug back into this thing. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 3:14 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You miss the point. Autonumber 6 doesn't change but the data in the > row does. My point was that Autonumber 6 doesn't identify the data in > any way, merely the row that the data happens to be stored in. I'm > not opposed to autonumbers, I use them all the time. What I'm opposed > to is trying to turn the autonumber into a meaningful value. > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > You're correct Charlotte, but I've also NEVER seen a case where > autonumber 6, for example, changed which row of data it is connected > to. It always ID's the same row for life. I have never agreed to the > statement that the data is separate from the autonumber - they ARE in > the same row. > > IMO, the autonumber field is simply a way to create sequential > numbering without writing a bunch code to do so. The fact that it can > also be the Primary Key is just an added benefit. Why include two > completely unique numbers in a row if one will do two jobs? I'm a big > fan of simplicity. > > This will lead to a ridiculous discussion - again - so I agree to > disagree > ;) > > BTW, Charlotte, because I have never driven a nail with a screwdriver > that method of driving nails is, in fact, NOT a valid method. :) I'll > let the list know if I ever do. However, an adjustable wrench is > acceptable. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 11:04 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > No, it is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same > > row, period. The data in that row are entirely independent from the > > autonumber, which is what leads to all the intense discussions of > > "primay key" vs "unique key" vs "surrogate key", etc. The fact that > > you have used it this way doesn't make it any more valid a usage. > > After all, you can drive nails with a screwdriver too. ;-> > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 8:46 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > I don't know why everyone is so adamant about no showing an > > autonumber. I agree technically they shouldn't be shown. > > > > But sometimes a simple solution is the best. For example, we > > currently have some contracts to 'digitize' a state required form > > for several local counties. Our solution to digitize is merely > > enter the data into a DB we created. However, the paper copies have > > to remain available. We number every form we put in so that the user > > can then search and find a paper copy by using the number generated > > by the software. > > > > Initially we did this using the autonumber and it worked perfectly > > (we > > > had to abandon it to allow multiple entry persons for one county. > > > > It is a row identifier and therefore always points to the same set > > of data. If he wants to use it as an identifier let him. I have. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > 812.523.1017 > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust > > > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:31 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > > > > > > > That doesn't make sense. If you have pull data in from other > > > tables > > > > and populated fields in a new record, the autonumber should have > > > been assigned, so there's something you aren't telling us. And as > > > someone else pointed out, the user should NEVER see the > > > autonumber. > > > > It has no > > > > > meaning, it merely identifies a row, not the data in the row, and > > > it > > > > should not be treated as meaningful. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:37:41 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:37:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Me too, but since 92 and Access 1.0 initial release. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Ditto, with Access 1.0 and up. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have been using Access for databases, and autonumbers for PKs since 1994 and have never lost data due to PK / FK issues. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately John, Well it wasn't too long ago that JET had a bug with it's auto number and in early versions was not reliable Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From zora_db at yahoo.com Fri Sep 9 10:38:14 2005 From: zora_db at yahoo.com (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:38:14 +0100 (BST) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004301c5b553$f0186210$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909153815.78429.qmail@web50113.mail.yahoo.com> That's *enough* JC. Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for everyone). --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > Whooooosh... > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY > SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and > have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to > my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say > that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 9 10:40:18 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:40:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] adding control number Message-ID: Hi Pedro Here's a typical explanation in human language on how to do this: HP RPG/XL Utilities-Part 3 SIGEDITOR Modulus 10 Self-Check Digit To calculate the Modulus 10 self-check digit, follow these steps: 1. Multiply the rightmost position and every other position, moving to the left, of the number by 2. Example: If your number is 1 2 3 4 5 6 7, multiply the digits 7, 5, 3, and 1 by 2 to get the numbers 14, 10, 6, and 2. 2. Add the digits of the products obtained from step 1 above to the digits that were not multiplied. Example: The products obtained from step 1 above are 14, 10, 6, and 2; the digits that were not multiplied are 2, 4, and 6. Add all these digits: 1 + 4 + 1 + 0 + 6 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 6 = 26. 3. Subtract the value obtained in step 2 from the next higher multiple of 10; the result is the self-check digit. Example: The next higher multiple of 10 from the result 26 obtained in step 2 above is 30. Subtracting 26 from 30 gives the result of 4, which is the self-check digit. 4. The check digit is then appended to the right end of the number to create the final result. /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:41:54 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:41:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: >>OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Arrrrggghhhh! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Either way -- sounds like reasons for routine backups and not a reason to not use a feature. OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Susan H. Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 10:47:53 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:47:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <20050909153815.78429.qmail@web50113.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004401c5b555$da2829c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Don't make me slap your legs. Promises promises. On a serious note though, these debates are old hat to those of us who have been around, but new members deserve the right to be smacked around a bit. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately That's *enough* JC. Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for everyone). --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > Whooooosh... > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ From bheygood at abestsystems.com Fri Sep 9 10:51:56 2005 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:51:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF1B5EAB@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: check out "Nuts and Volts" mag for lots of info on pics and other electronics. bob heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers John if I understand well, we gonna see you in a couple of years with your son on TV in Robot Wars? The show runs on BBC television and I believe in the states to. Where a team, useualy father and son(s) build a robot (about 1 meter in size) with weapons on it to fight with other teams robots. Looks like a lot of fun building itn and see your robot, during the clash, falling in to the pit of fire getting fried by a flam trower... You would need some good electronics, mechanical and pneumatical skills :-( And probably some military tactics to.. Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John W. Colby Verzonden: woensdag 7 september 2005 19:42 Aan: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Onderwerp: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL, of course you are right, just not enough to do. Controller programming might be a career path (or sideline) too though. Because I know electronics and programming I am able to do the whole thing. Plus it's just fun watching the LEDs flash and the stepper motors turn. I really want to get up to speed before my son gets too much older so I can work with him building little machines and robots. He is a smart little guy and I'm thinking that he could be the u-controller consulting side of Colby Consulting by the time he's 8 or 9. A business advisor suggested hiring your kids for tax purposes. If I could hire Robbie and charge the client $60 / hour for his time... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers LOL John, you obviously don't have enough to keep you busy: children, book writing, framework conversion to .Net, etc. I think you need a hobby! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; Tech - Database Advisors Inc. Subject: [AccessD] OT: PIC micro controllers Is anyone here playing or working with PIC Microcontrollers? I have been interested in controller applications forever (in my previous life I was into electronics), and in fact I designed a vending machine while I was working down in Mexico that used a Z-World SBC. I have discovered that you can request engineering samples of these little beauties (PIC u controllers) and am starting to gather the stuff to program them. I was just wondering if anyone else does this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From zora_db at yahoo.com Fri Sep 9 11:01:39 2005 From: zora_db at yahoo.com (Roz Clarke) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:01:39 +0100 (BST) Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <004401c5b555$da2829c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050909160140.81159.qmail@web50107.mail.yahoo.com> It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > >Don't make me slap your legs. > > Promises promises. > > > > On a serious note though, these debates are old hat to those of us who have > been around, but new members deserve the right to be smacked around a bit. > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That's *enough* JC. > > Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is > getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for > everyone). > > > --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > > > Whooooosh... > > > > ;-) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 11:19:21 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:19:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.2.20050909063127.028f18c8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <004901c5b55a$4179e9c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> If I weren't the author seeking permission (and since no one else is saying it) I would say... The whole point of this list is real developers building real systems, asking for help solving real problems, where the answers are immediately going to be taken and used in real (commercial) products. So by answering a question on this list you are giving implied consent to use the answer in commercial systems. Hmmm.... I guess I just said it. Martin and I are asking permission simply to avoid having the book tied up in useless copyright infringement lawsuits, and we really will only publish material where the "creator" gives us permission to do so. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:33 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book Sorry bruce, but once it is published, you really do not have a say in the matter. And, since this is a public forum, you really do not have much of a say in how anything posted here, by you or anyone else is used. Welcome to the world of the Internet. Robert At 08:54 PM 9/8/2005, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:16:02 +1000 >From: "Bruen, Bruce" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Martin and John write a book >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >I give John Colby and Martin Reid permission to use my emails to the >AccessD list in a printed book should they find anything that is >vaguely valuable in an information sense. I do not give permission for >any reader of the book to use said information in a commercial product >without express permission. > >bruce -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 11:22:07 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 12:22:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Message-ID: <004a01c5b55a$a7f591e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 11:53:20 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:53:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Message-ID: Um, John? In bound forms, moving from the parent form to the subform saves the parent record. If there's no parent ID, it sounds like you have a bigger problem. I generally disable the child subform until the parent form is complete. Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. I know you know about all that, so are you doing something exotic that you didn't explain? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 11:53:34 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:53:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export Form / Save In shortcut box References: Message-ID: <4321BE0E.40409@shaw.ca> You can do something with windows scripting shortcuts like this Dim WshShell as object Set WshShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell") Dim objShortcutLnk as object Set objShortcutLnk = WshShell.CreateShortcut(newfol?derpath & "\target.lnk") objShortcutLnk.TargetPath = folderTargetpath objShortcutLnk.IconLocation = folderTargeticon objShortcutLnk.Save Francisco Tapia wrote: >Whenever you export a form, or save a query etc, in Access 2000/2003 you get >this getsaveas dialog box with some quick shortcuts to desktop/my documents >etc. I'd like to add my personal "Build" shortcut to this... anyone know the >correct keywords for google, I've been staying up late for the last couple >of weeks and I'm just drained :(. can't seem to pick the right keywords for >goole :) > >Thanks in advance... > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 9 11:56:20 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:56:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] ISBN, ISBN-13, calculation of check digits Message-ID: Hi all If you deal with books and ISBN numbers and the upcoming ISBN-13 (from year 2007), this page may be of interest: http://www.bisg.org/isbn-13/publishers.faq.html and the link to Conversions and Calculations: http://www.bisg.org/isbn-13/conversions.html Note the move from Modulus 11 to Modulus 10 check digit calculation as in EAN-13. Also note the use of X in the old ISBN numbers to represent check digit 10. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:02:03 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:02:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004b01c5b560$3c3066a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL. let's just wait for other responses eh? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Um, John? In bound forms, moving from the parent form to the subform saves the parent record. If there's no parent ID, it sounds like you have a bigger problem. I generally disable the child subform until the parent form is complete. Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. I know you know about all that, so are you doing something exotic that you didn't explain? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:16:43 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:16:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C03@main2.marlow.com> Well, until you change your ways, it WILL keep happening! Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Yeah, and expect it to keep happening, too! LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:24:00 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:24:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004c01c5b563$49349620$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. And of course all this does is piss off the user. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Um, John? In bound forms, moving from the parent form to the subform saves the parent record. If there's no parent ID, it sounds like you have a bigger problem. I generally disable the child subform until the parent form is complete. Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. I know you know about all that, so are you doing something exotic that you didn't explain? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Regardless of the PK type of choice, allowing the user to enter child records before the parent is valid can create a mess in your database. Using bound forms, a subform will happily allow the user to enter a child record when the parent form is on the new record. What happens then is that the child record is saved but there is no valid parent ID so the entered record is immediately "orphaned". So how do you guys handle preventing the user from entering data in child forms if the parent form is on the new record? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:18:52 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:18:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C04@main2.marlow.com> Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:19:51 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:19:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C05@main2.marlow.com> Sorry Roz, but JC wouldn't stand a chance on OT.... ;) Maybe we'll need an OT-lite list! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately That's *enough* JC. Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for everyone). --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > Whooooosh... > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > >>There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > Ooooh, that's right, John, throw a little more gasoline on the flames! LOL > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 6:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > Thank you Lambert. I have used autonumbers for EVERY SINGLE PK in EVERY > SINGLE database I have ever designed (and that is a LOT of databases) and > have NEVER, even ONCE had to modify my PK, chase down FKs, add new fields to > my PK/FK etc. EVER, even ONCE. How many users of natural keys can say > that? There is no debate, just silly people who do silly things. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:20:42 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:20:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C06@main2.marlow.com> Yes, we can't change the debate without changing the subject line....Susan, you should know better! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >>OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Arrrrggghhhh! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 8:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Either way -- sounds like reasons for routine backups and not a reason to not use a feature. OK, now who wants to talk about lookup fields???????????? Susan H. Yes, it absolutely is, and equally possible (and likely) to scramble the data in the field that you are using for part (or all) of a natural key. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 12:21:31 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:21:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C07@main2.marlow.com> Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the night' feeling? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > >Don't make me slap your legs. > > Promises promises. > > > > On a serious note though, these debates are old hat to those of us who have > been around, but new members deserve the right to be smacked around a bit. > > ;-) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Roz Clarke > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > That's *enough* JC. > > Don't make me slap your legs. Play nice or take it to OT. This thread is > getting out of hand enough without anyone playing arsonist. (That goes for > everyone). > > > --- "John W. Colby" wrote: > > > Whooooosh... > > > > ;-) > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:33:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:33:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C04@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <004d01c5b564$a287c110$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 12:35:41 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:35:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Message-ID: Hah! Not as much as orphan records that they can enter but can never see again! ;-> Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent >Of course, you could also enforce referential integrity between the two tables, which wouldn't allow you to save the child record anyhow without a parent. And of course all this does is piss off the user. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ - From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 9 12:37:36 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:37:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: Oy! Why does it make my head ache just to consider that statement, Drew? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the night' feeling? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz From KIsmert at texassystems.com Fri Sep 9 12:39:25 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 12:39:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Message-ID: I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. -Ken >> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a >> property within an ADO recordset, that if you >> remove all the records, you can 'reset' the >> Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, >>> if I remember correctly....) >> Drew From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 12:52:27 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:52:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C07@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C07@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the > night' feeling? ;) I sure hope not. I'm still around and I can mess with your subscriptions :) Play nice boys and girls. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 12:55:59 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:55:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004f01c5b567$c0d4fd10$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Ken, Does this method work for tables with data already in them, or only empty tables? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. -Ken >> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a >> property within an ADO recordset, that if you >> remove all the records, you can 'reset' the >> Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, >>> if I remember correctly....) >> Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:23:28 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:23:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:23:55 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:23:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediat ely) Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0A@main2.marlow.com> That's it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at texassystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. -Ken >> Remind me in the morning, but I know there is a >> property within an ADO recordset, that if you >> remove all the records, you can 'reset' the >> Autonumber (the property is the 'next' number, >>> if I remember correctly....) >> Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:24:32 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:24:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0B@main2.marlow.com> Not sure....lie down on the couch over there, and tell me how you feel about it. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Oy! Why does it make my head ache just to consider that statement, Drew? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the night' feeling? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Roz Clarke [mailto:zora_db at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It's a fine subject for debate, though yes old hat to some of us. It's on-topic and it's Friday in any case. I don't want to spoil ALL your fun. Just try not to get personal eh? Anyway I'm off home now so you're all on trust for the weekend ;) Have a good one Roz -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 13:25:11 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:25:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0C@main2.marlow.com> LOL! I think you have too much time on your hands Bryan! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Is it me, or did anyone else suddenly get the 'parents are gone for the > night' feeling? ;) I sure hope not. I'm still around and I can mess with your subscriptions :) Play nice boys and girls. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 13:32:39 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:32:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) > > What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? By The Computer would be my guess. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 13:33:18 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:33:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0C@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > LOL! I think you have too much time on your hands Bryan! ;) These days, yea a spare 20 hours or so a week :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Sep 9 13:33:15 2005 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:33:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] #Name? Message-ID: <4321D56B.9020707@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Can someone explain to me what causes in a textbox on a report "Total - " & format(me![SumBal],"#,##0.0") On some machines (all running the same mde program) to display Total - 123.1 and others #Name? I have checked the regional settings and they all the same. I think this has been asked before but I could not find anything in the archives. Thanks From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 13:39:46 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:39:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C09@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005201c5b56d$e2c80830$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Rule #1 is just a natural result of rule #3 being true and your misguided belief in rule #2. Biting the carpet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 9 13:49:42 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:49:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediat ely) In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C0A@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20050909184955.UXER11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You can do a quite a bit using ADOX too -- but can't get into ElementK's site to get a link to the article. :( ADOX lets you do a few things programmatically that you can't do manually. Susan H. That's it! I use a Data-Definition SQL statement: ALTER TABLE TableName ALTER COLUMN AutoField COUNTER (1,1); The first number is the starting value, and the second is the increment. This works for A2K and later. From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 14:08:22 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:08:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expected format" Message-ID: <7bb91085a7f54e7d9bf3ef526f318610@christopherhawkins.com> All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 14:15:43 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:15:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C13@main2.marlow.com> Aha, Bryan was wrong about 'by the computer' then! I now must refer you to rule number 5! Because when any of the three of us post, 2 of the rules are wrong, such as right now, #3 is dead wrong! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Rule #1 is just a natural result of rule #3 being true and your misguided belief in rule #2. Biting the carpet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:23 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately LOL, JC, I think I must refer you to rule #1. ;) What does the BTC mean at the end of your acronym? Drew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ROTFLMAOBTC. Except rule #5 should read: Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #3. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 14:20:42 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:20:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" In-Reply-To: <7bb91085a7f54e7d9bf3ef526f318610@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <005301c5b573$9253a930$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 14:31:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:31:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005401c5b575$2224b800$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 14:36:38 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:36:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C13@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C13@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Aha, Bryan was wrong about 'by the computer' then! I'm wrong? When is the listmaster EVER wrong? Just remeber what I said before. I can mess with your subscriptions if YOU answer wrong closely followed by Bryan -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From KIsmert at texassystems.com Fri Sep 9 14:36:54 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:36:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Message-ID: John, Yes, it works for tables with data. The only requirement is that the starting value must be 1 higher than the highest autonumber value already in the table, to aviod duplicate values. Also, if your autonumber field is set to random values, you are pretty much stuck with that. I wouldn't reset the autonumber value in that circumstance. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Ken, Does this method work for tables with data already in them, or only empty tables? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 14:36:18 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 13:36:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Message-ID: <758dfa54a90d463f995c65b1aca3a20f@christopherhawkins.com> It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of anything, really. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 14:34:08 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:34:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> As the list master, did you see the hidden rule #6? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Aha, Bryan was wrong about 'by the computer' then! I'm wrong? When is the listmaster EVER wrong? Just remeber what I said before. I can mess with your subscriptions if YOU answer wrong closely followed by Bryan -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 14:46:57 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:46:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > As the list master, did you see the hidden rule #6? ;) I don't DO rules. I just enforce 'em :) Questions? Comments? Concerns? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 14:51:44 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:51:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" In-Reply-To: <758dfa54a90d463f995c65b1aca3a20f@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <005501c5b577$f02a5910$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just calls its data files dbfs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of anything, really. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 14:47:13 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:47:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C20@main2.marlow.com> Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative branch. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 09/09/05, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > As the list master, did you see the hidden rule #6? ;) I don't DO rules. I just enforce 'em :) Questions? Comments? Concerns? :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Sep 9 14:56:33 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:56:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C20@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 15:03:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:03:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005601c5b579$92bac0b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Well I just tried it and get an error "Cannot change field YYY, it is part of one or more relationships." John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) John, Yes, it works for tables with data. The only requirement is that the starting value must be 1 higher than the highest autonumber value already in the table, to aviod duplicate values. Also, if your autonumber field is set to random values, you are pretty much stuck with that. I wouldn't reset the autonumber value in that circumstance. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:56 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber Assigned Immediately) Ken, Does this method work for tables with data already in them, or only empty tables? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Sep 9 15:00:02 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:00:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C22@main2.marlow.com> The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, Congress is the Legislative branch. Got that President Carbonell? Congressman Drew ;) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 15:20:29 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:20:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just calls its data files dbfs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of anything, really. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "John W. Colby" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expectedformat" All, This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: "external table is not in the expected format" I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? -C- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 15:24:01 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 16:24:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C22@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, Congress is the Legislative branch. Got that President Carbonell? Congressman Drew ;) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 15:39:54 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:39:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" References: <005501c5b577$f02a5910$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4321F31A.5090809@shaw.ca> There were all sorts of problems with dbf files with Jet below SP7 Visual Fox Pro also uses dbf files You might need the BDE engine to read DBASE 7 and 8 file types You might need an ODBC driver from Merant. Some of the ODBC drivers require old DOS 8.3 filenames You might get away with oConn.Open "Driver={Microsoft dBASE Driver (*.dbf)};" & _ "DriverID=277;" & _ "Dbq=c:\somepath" Then specify the filename in the SQL statement: oRs.Open "Select * From user.dbf", oConn, , ,adCmdText http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=90#ODBCDriverForDBASE http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;238431 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;230125 John W. Colby wrote: >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 15:51:31 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:51:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] #Name? References: <4321D56B.9020707@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4321F5D3.8030701@shaw.ca> It could be a bad reference or an non initialized variable. More likely references with an mde. Solving Problems with Library References (Allen Browne) http://allenbrowne.com/ser-38.html and Access Reference Problems (Doug Steele) http://members.rogers.com/douglas.j.steele/AccessReferenceErrors.html Tony Septav wrote: >Hey All >Can someone explain to me what causes in a textbox on a report >"Total - " & format(me![SumBal],"#,##0.0") >On some machines (all running the same mde program) to display >Total - 123.1 > and others >#Name? > >I have checked the regional settings and they all the same. > >I think this has been asked before but I could not find anything in the >archives. > >Thanks > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 15:57:27 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 13:57:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4321F737.5090507@shaw.ca> I may have to invoke Godwin's Law. John W. Colby wrote: >Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war >with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:00 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > >The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, >Congress is the Legislative branch. > >Got that President Carbonell? > >Congressman Drew > >;) > >-----Original Message----- >From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > >On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > > > >>Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative >>branch. ;) >> >> > >What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga >bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 16:05:09 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:05:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: <11a78e6f5fd1410eb597835ea7af369b@christopherhawkins.com> Specifying the dBASE driver and putting the filename in the connect string yields the same error. For a variety of reasons, installing additional drivers is not a possibility, nor is using a DSN. The version of Jet on this machine is above Service Pack 8. This is so peculiar. I just don't know what to think. -C- ---------------------------------------- From: MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" There were all sorts of problems with dbf files with Jet below SP7 Visual Fox Pro also uses dbf files You might need the BDE engine to read DBASE 7 and 8 file types You might need an ODBC driver from Merant. Some of the ODBC drivers require old DOS 8.3 filenames You might get away with oConn.Open "Driver={Microsoft dBASE Driver (*.dbf)};" & _ "DriverID=277;" & _ "Dbq=c:\somepath" Then specify the filename in the SQL statement: oRs.Open "Select * From user.dbf", oConn, , ,adCmdText http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=90#ODBCDriverForDBASE http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;238431 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;230125 John W. Colby wrote: >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 16:15:17 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 14:15:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" References: Message-ID: <4321FB65.3080304@shaw.ca> Wild guess. Maybe have a quick gander at the dbf files in a hex editor for clues. Could it contain a pointer to a memo field, Excel might ignore it Each of these has a different format of memo/index files. Driver - Database, Index(s), Memo file Dbase III+ - .DBF, .NDX, .DBT Dbase IV - .DBF, .MDX, .DBT Clipper - .DBF, .NTX, .DBT Foxpro - .DBF, .IDX/.CDX, .FPT A memo file is not literally attached to a dbf file, but the dbf file contains offsets to the associated data in the memo file. Memo files are made up of blocks, each record in the database can point to 1 block. If the data is more than a block long, the end of memo marker simply appears in the next block, and the data is read starting at the first block of the memo until the end of memo is hit. The field that is type memo in the .dbf is a numeric pointer to the block in the memo file. Christopher Hawkins wrote: >Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. > >UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. > >I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- >From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Fri Sep 9 16:21:09 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:21:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C1E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Sep 9 16:29:04 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:29:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: AHA! I see an .fpt counterpart to the .dbf file I'm trying to open. So we must be dealing with a FoxPro file then. But swapping out the dBASE driver for a FoxPro driver doesn't seem to do anything. Hmmm... -C- ---------------------------------------- From: MartyConnelly Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Wild guess. Maybe have a quick gander at the dbf files in a hex editor for clues. Could it contain a pointer to a memo field, Excel might ignore it Each of these has a different format of memo/index files. Driver - Database, Index(s), Memo file Dbase III+ - .DBF, .NDX, .DBT Dbase IV - .DBF, .MDX, .DBT Clipper - .DBF, .NTX, .DBT Foxpro - .DBF, .IDX/.CDX, .FPT A memo file is not literally attached to a dbf file, but the dbf file contains offsets to the associated data in the memo file. Memo files are made up of blocks, each record in the database can point to 1 block. If the data is more than a block long, the end of memo marker simply appears in the next block, and the data is read starting at the first block of the memo until the end of memo is hit. The field that is type memo in the .dbf is a numeric pointer to the block in the memo file. Christopher Hawkins wrote: >Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. > >UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. > >I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- >From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Sep 9 16:38:23 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:38:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337805@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Well the Mexican army has already sent a large convoy to San Antonio. (true story - it is for the evacuees) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately The president is the head of the Executive branch of our government, Congress is the Legislative branch. Got that President Carbonell? Congressman Drew ;) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately On 9 Sep 2005 at 14:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ah, so you are the executive branch, and the BoD is the legislative > branch. ;) What is this executive and legislative branch stuff you're talkinga bout? I'm a canuck ya know. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Nobody cares if you can't dance well. Just get up and dance. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 16:50:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 17:50:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005b01c5b588$8d4d24b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >..not one mind changed ...again :( Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Fri Sep 9 16:58:21 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:58:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CD67@natexch.jenkens.com> I have noticed most people tend to stick with what they always do unless traumatized by a bad design. I used a little of both early in my programming days, though mostly artificial keys since they were easier. Fortunately or unfortunately, fairly early on, I inherited a database with natural keys. The trauma the natural keys put me through with that &^%@# put me off the idea of natural keys forever. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >..not one mind changed ...again :( Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From KIsmert at texassystems.com Fri Sep 9 17:04:02 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 17:04:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) Message-ID: Drop your relationships involving the field, reset the autonumber, then re-apply relationships. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) Well I just tried it and get an error "Cannot change field YYY, it is part of one or more relationships." John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Reset Autonumber (WAS: Autonumber AssignedImmediately) John, Yes, it works for tables with data. The only requirement is that the starting value must be 1 higher than the highest autonumber value already in the table, to aviod duplicate values. Also, if your autonumber field is set to random values, you are pretty much stuck with that. I wouldn't reset the autonumber value in that circumstance. -Ken From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 9 17:23:10 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:23:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform In-Reply-To: <004a01c5b55a$a7f591e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509092223.j89MNCT12498@databaseadvisors.com> Shamil recently assisted me with the syntax to refer to a control on a subform, and now I need to do the opposite from within a "With Me" block. I tried "Parent" as in the following sample line, with a couple of variations, but I got it wrong. With Me .Parent.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl.Value = 12345 End With And another thing about these "With Me" blocks. It appears from my experiments that you cannot nest them. I.e. With Me .control1 = 124 .control2 = "This is some text" With .mySubForm .control1 = True .control2 = "This is some more text" End With End With Whereas one can next Case blocks, While loops, If blocks, etc. Can anyone think of a logical reason why With blocks do not conform to the general rule? TIA, Arthur From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 9 17:27:51 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 15:27:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" References: Message-ID: <43220C67.8090003@shaw.ca> Then you probably have memo fields Have a look for .dbc files these are a collection, sort of storage of all the data and index files needed for a specific vfp database. You can open this in notepad. You might want to try the OLEDB Provider for VFP for either version 8 or 9. http://www.carlprothman.net/Default.aspx?tabid=87#OLEDBProviderForVisualFoxPro Christopher Hawkins wrote: >AHA! > >I see an .fpt counterpart to the .dbf file I'm trying to open. So we must be dealing with a FoxPro file then. > >But swapping out the dBASE driver for a FoxPro driver doesn't seem to do anything. Hmmm... > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: MartyConnelly >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >Wild guess. >Maybe have a quick gander at the dbf files in a hex editor for clues. > >Could it contain a pointer to a memo field, Excel might ignore it > >Each of these has a different format of memo/index >files. > >Driver - Database, Index(s), Memo file >Dbase III+ - .DBF, .NDX, .DBT >Dbase IV - .DBF, .MDX, .DBT >Clipper - .DBF, .NTX, .DBT >Foxpro - .DBF, .IDX/.CDX, .FPT > >A memo file is not literally attached to a dbf file, but the dbf file >contains >offsets to the associated data in the memo file. Memo files are made up of >blocks, each record in the database can point to 1 block. If the data is >more >than a block long, the end of memo marker simply appears in the next block, >and the data is read starting at the first block of the memo until the >end of memo >is hit. The field that is type memo in the .dbf is a numeric pointer to >the block in >the memo file. > >Christopher Hawkins wrote: > > > >>Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. >> >>UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. >> >>I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. >> >>-C- >> >>---------------------------------------- >>From: "John W. Colby" >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" >> >>In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >>anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >>calls its data files dbfs. >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >>Hawkins >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >>inthe expectedformat" >> >>It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >>know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >>anything, really. >> >>-C- >> >>---------------------------------------- >>From: "John W. Colby" >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >>expectedformat" >> >>Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >>Hawkins >>Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >>expectedformat" >> >>All, >> >>This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >>data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >>message: >> >>"external table is not in the expected format" >> >>I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >>I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >>else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? >> >>-C- >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 17:30:52 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 18:30:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CD67@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <005c01c5b58e$22e19600$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Of course you are right. The thing is it is sooooo easy to switch to surrogate keys, and the advantages are so clear that it amazes me when people cling to the old way. I know how to use natural keys, I could do so quite easily (the using of them, not the maintenance of them), but why in the world would I? Switching to surrogate keys OTOH is equally easy (on new designs) and why not? I admit that I would not dream of trying to convert an existing design using natural keys to a surrogate key design, but even in that case I would switch to surrogate keys for all new additions to the database. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I have noticed most people tend to stick with what they always do unless traumatized by a bad design. I used a little of both early in my programming days, though mostly artificial keys since they were easier. Fortunately or unfortunately, fairly early on, I inherited a database with natural keys. The trauma the natural keys put me through with that &^%@# put me off the idea of natural keys forever. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 4:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately >..not one mind changed ...again :( Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on Autonumber ..not one mind changed ...again :( ..TGIF :) William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Fri Sep 9 17:52:05 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:52:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately References: <005b01c5b588$8d4d24b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: ..ok, but he's Belfast Irish ...according to him he was on his way home from an evenin' of brews and found himself wandering down a Unionist street all alone and in no condition to argue with any coherent individual, let alone you ...when, lo ...you popped up in an orange caped jumpsuit and offered not to colbyize him if only he would leave the dark side ...that's his story and I'm stickin' to it :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > >..not one mind changed ...again :( > > Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long ago, > based almost entirely on one of these debates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on > Autonumber > ..not one mind changed ...again :( > > ..TGIF :) > > William > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Sep 9 18:09:11 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:09:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <4321F737.5090507@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4322A2B7.28492.8E5AE3E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 9 Sep 2005 at 13:57, MartyConnelly wrote: > I may have to invoke Godwin's Law. > That's typical of you Surrogate key nazis! -- Stuart From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 9 19:45:19 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 20:45:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C22@main2.marlow.com> <005701c5b57c$6a3de2e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: On 09/09/05, John W. Colby wrote: > Shhhh, don't tell John Bartow that Bryan is president. We don't need a war > with Canada with all our troops over in Iraq. No worries. I don't want to be president. Your Eminence will do :-)) Thankfully Friday is almost over :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 20:27:06 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:27:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337805@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <005f01c5b5a6$c60c9880$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Well the Mexican army has already sent a large convoy to San Antonio. (true story - it is for the evacuees) Jim Hale When I lived in Puebla Mexico, the standing joke among my Mexican friends was that Mexicans were recovering their land (the southwest US) one immigrant at a time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FRIDAY: Re: Autonumber Assigned Immediately Well the Mexican army has already sent a large convoy to San Antonio. (true story - it is for the evacuees) Jim Hale From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 20:27:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:27:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform In-Reply-To: <200509092223.j89MNCT12498@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006001c5b5a6$d6116530$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Controls are preceded by !, properties by . Me.Parent - parent is a property pointing to my parent Me.Parent!SomeControl John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform Shamil recently assisted me with the syntax to refer to a control on a subform, and now I need to do the opposite from within a "With Me" block. I tried "Parent" as in the following sample line, with a couple of variations, but I got it wrong. With Me .Parent.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl.Value = 12345 End With And another thing about these "With Me" blocks. It appears from my experiments that you cannot nest them. I.e. With Me .control1 = 124 .control2 = "This is some text" With .mySubForm .control1 = True .control2 = "This is some more text" End With End With Whereas one can next Case blocks, While loops, If blocks, etc. Can anyone think of a logical reason why With blocks do not conform to the general rule? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 9 20:44:43 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:44:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <006101c5b5a9$3c35dab0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Reeeeaaaaly? One of the conditions of my not Colbyizing him is that he stay quiet about the orange caped jumpsuit... Martin? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately ..ok, but he's Belfast Irish ...according to him he was on his way home from an evenin' of brews and found himself wandering down a Unionist street all alone and in no condition to argue with any coherent individual, let alone you ...when, lo ...you popped up in an orange caped jumpsuit and offered not to colbyize him if only he would leave the dark side ...that's his story and I'm stickin' to it :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > >..not one mind changed ...again :( > > Hey, you don't know that. Martin came over from the dark side long > ago, based almost entirely on one of these debates. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 5:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > ..ah me ...another week on AccessD ...another gizillion posts on > Autonumber > ..not one mind changed ...again :( > > ..TGIF :) > > William > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri Sep 9 21:56:21 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2005 21:56:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5C04@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I was always under the impression that Rule #1 read: "My wife is always right" Rule #5 is then still correct. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Welcome to the AccessD Debate team. Rule #1: A debate must continue until a search of the archives is required to find the original post that started it. Rule #2: Drew is always right. Rule #3: JC is always right. Rule #4: Charlotte is always right. Rule #5: If rules 2,3, and 4 are in conflict, refer to Rule #1. (Hey, it is Friday!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately I'm here for ya, Drew. I didn't intend to start a big discussion - I just thought it wasn't fair for people to pick on...hell, I can't remember who even asked the original question... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 12:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately Woohoo, I have a sidekick finally! Charlotte and JC have been tag teaming me for YEARS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 7:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately It can also be called over-building. I have an app that works perfectly and has done so since 2000. I wrote it with simplicity in mind. I had it ready for use in 6 months with very minor bugs. I sold that app to an engineering firm that thought "building it right, the first time" was the way to go and immediately set out to completely re-write the app. The purchased the app in March of 2003 and in October of 2004 gave up with nothing that worked and gave the whole thing back. They thought they needed to build everything to "the right way" - they were overbuilding the project. The question is "Who decides what the right way is?" Is it mine that works perfectly and is technically fine and has been making me good money since 2000...or the engineers that was written by the book, but never worked and therefore never produced a penny? BTW, I've seen the details of their work records and they have over $300,000 invested in programming time. Getting stuff to the market is sometimes more important than "perfect" code or design. Ask Netscape how writing perfect code worked out for them. I'm not a programmer - at least I don't consider myself one. I have never had any formal programming training and therefore have never been caught up in books and such. I simply build stuff that works. If my clients are happy and I'm making money I have to conclude the design is just fine. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David Mcafee > Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 5:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately > > > So you don't have to go back there and fix things. > > It's called "building it right, the first time" :) > > > --- Susan Harkins wrote: > > > My point would be -- if there are no rules, why > > bother until there are some? > > It might never happen. > > > > Susan H. > > > > Six months later you are told that all the numbers > > have to be padded to 6 > > digits. Ok, either change the field to a text field > > (if it wasn't such > > already), revise the number generator accordingly, > > and run an update query > > on the existing records to include the padding, or > > find all uses of the > > 'number' field everywhere in the database and change > > the formatting of the > > number display. [I know which choice I would make :) > > > > > > Then a year down the line the suits say "You have to > > include an alpha prefix > > that shows which office created the record". Fine > > (As long as you can > > identify the office within the rest of the data). > > You change the 'number' > > generating code to tack on the prefix for new > > records and then run an update > > query to add the prefix to all the existing records. > > > > > > Sit back and wait for the next bright idea about > > what extra information can > > be stuffed into a 'serial number'. All of this is > > just a minor pain in the > > butt because of course you are not using this field > > as a Primary Key, that's > > handled by an autonumber that no one sees, so all > > your relationships are > > intact. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 00:50:32 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:20:32 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query References: Message-ID: <011201c5b5cb$a76accb0$371865cb@winxp> Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup From ralphb at cwgsy.net Sat Sep 10 02:05:54 2005 From: ralphb at cwgsy.net (Ralph Bryce) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:05:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the expected format" In-Reply-To: <7bb91085a7f54e7d9bf3ef526f318610@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20050910073653.014fe250@mail.cwgsy.net> Christopher At 13:08 09/09/2005 -0600, you wrote: >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their >.dbf data file from Access. >Every time I try to link or import, I get the error message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so >far. I'vetried linking and connecting > with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what else to try. Has anyone > else seen this problem before? Yes; it sounds as if you are trying to import FoxPro 2.6 tables with linked memo files IIRC it used to work in Access 97, but the drivers got dropped in Access 2000. Here are some links: http://www.experts-exchange.com/Databases/FoxPro/Q_21069380.html http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=733373 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;824264 http://www.kbalertz.com/kb_Q235357.aspx It's definitely possible; I had to do it some years ago when converting a FoxPro 2.6 database to Access 2000. If none of these helps, I'll try and dig out the relevant MS articles. HTH Ralph Bryce From artful at rogers.com Sat Sep 10 06:27:20 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:27:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: <005401c5b575$2224b800$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509101127.j8ABRQT06205@databaseadvisors.com> I might as well jump into this now, although I have been attempting to restrain myself. What JC is getting at, IMO, is the disconnect between how humans see a system and how developers/database designers see it. This is increasingly true as the humans tend to think of paper forms. The cool thing about paper forms is that you can fill in the boxes in any order you want. (We all know about the down side, so let's not waste time discussing that.) Faced with this sort of situation, I tend to go for a completely un-normalized table that grabs all the data for master and child and grandchild if necessary (customer info, order info, order detail info, and so on). The user is free to enter the data in any desired order (details first, customer second, order info last -- whatever). I don't care. I'll have a validation routine on the form to be sure, but as for the user hopping around in an unpredictable manner, I don't care. I will give them some help such as a combo-box with a list of customers and a not-in-list routine that exposes some additional controls if necessary, but I have no problem in terms of design in providing such an un-normalized form. The big thing is that this form talks to a temp table whose rows are tossed as soon as the user saves the record. At that point code kicks in and writes the various fields to their appropriate normalized destinations. This is never my first design choice, to be sure. But more than a few times it has proved appropriate for certain clients. The normalized pattern tends to create a UI where you first must obtain the customer info, adding the customer if necessary, then create the order, then create the order details. It may be, in a given business, that the order detail stuff is most important. (Think of selling tickets to a concert, or any other product where quantity is strictly limited, and sold on a first-come-first-serve basis.) You call me and say, "I want two tickets to the Stones in NYC." It is much more important to immediately reserve two tickets, removing them (temporarily) from inventory, than it is to obtain your name. Once I have reserved the tickets, then I can create the order and finally (and I might add, most gracefully) ask the customer her name and her credit card info. Imagine this transaction going the other way, in rude terms: "I want two Stones tickets." "Who the hell are you? Name, address, birthdate, credit card info?" Back and forth for a while... and then the last remaining tickets have been sold to somebody else. Nobody in their right mind, IMO, would be happy with a design like this. My un-normalized table approach may not be the best solution, but it does allow me to ask for the data in the reverse order, most important (order details) first, and then work back up the chain. IMO, it is simply graceful to secure the product first and only then ask for the customer info, once I am confident that I do in fact have two Stones tickets for you. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 9, 2005 3:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 06:44:10 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:14:10 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query References: <011201c5b5cb$a76accb0$371865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <002101c5b5fd$073eb2b0$8b1865cb@winxp> Further to my previous post, if the time span for moving total is to include only the period upto current date (not the whole current month), apart from the two months previous to current one, the query would stand modified as given below. For getting the moving average in a similar manner, Sum in the subquery can be replaced by Avg. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ======================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And T1.SDate <= T_Data.SDate) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D.Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:20 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 10 07:52:19 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:52:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Autonumber Assigned Immediately In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050910125218.PNGS24572.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Different list -- wife controls the "honey do list... " :) Susan H. I was always under the impression that Rule #1 read: "My wife is always right" Rule #5 is then still correct. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 08:30:11 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:00:11 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent References: <005401c5b575$2224b800$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <001601c5b60b$d6e933b0$1e1865cb@winxp> Let SF_01 be the name of control on main form, acting as container for the subform in question. Code in its Enter event, as given below, will ensure that if the user tries to go into it while it happens to be in locked state, there will be a helpful message followed by transfer of focus to desired control on the main form. A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code in Enter event of SubFormContainerControl ================================== Private Sub SF_01_Enter() If SF_01.Locked = True Then MsgBox "Please Make Entry In ... First" ControlOnParentForm.SetFocus End If End Sub ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Colby To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 01:01 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 09:18:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:18:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: <200509101127.j8ABRQT06205@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <006501c5b612$93b079d0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Of course this non-normalized method works quite well in certain situations, and it is absolutely imperative in certain situations where out of order entry is a functional requirement. OTOH, the programming overhead on an application by application basis. I quoted 10 hours for table build, 10 hours for form build, 10 hours for "support" and N hours for report building (open ended). This is a tiny system, designed to replace a spreadsheet with something more user friendly. This is a reasonable estimate, and I am hitting that estimate just fine. Would I be able to with "denormalized data entry"? This is a one user system - the sole user being the guy that hired me to build the system. He understands the entities being modeled, although not entirely the "m-m relationship tables". If I did none of the stuff I have been discussing in this thread it would be OK, with "training" filling the gaps. In systems where in order data entry can be accomplished, it cuts the system design down immensely and should be expected. I accomplish much of the "out of order requirement" from form input by ordering the data entry controls such that the parent objects just naturally get filled in if they don't exist. For example, in the disability insurance call center software, there is an input form. The first control is the "claimant". If the claimant is not found in the combo, a "not in list" event fires opening the claimant form where the claimant is filled in. When that form closes the claimant is now in the combo and can be selected. I use existing functionality, a claimant table, a claimant form, and a claimant combo with an existing event handler to cause the claimant to be captured if they aren't already in the system. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent I might as well jump into this now, although I have been attempting to restrain myself. What JC is getting at, IMO, is the disconnect between how humans see a system and how developers/database designers see it. This is increasingly true as the humans tend to think of paper forms. The cool thing about paper forms is that you can fill in the boxes in any order you want. (We all know about the down side, so let's not waste time discussing that.) Faced with this sort of situation, I tend to go for a completely un-normalized table that grabs all the data for master and child and grandchild if necessary (customer info, order info, order detail info, and so on). The user is free to enter the data in any desired order (details first, customer second, order info last -- whatever). I don't care. I'll have a validation routine on the form to be sure, but as for the user hopping around in an unpredictable manner, I don't care. I will give them some help such as a combo-box with a list of customers and a not-in-list routine that exposes some additional controls if necessary, but I have no problem in terms of design in providing such an un-normalized form. The big thing is that this form talks to a temp table whose rows are tossed as soon as the user saves the record. At that point code kicks in and writes the various fields to their appropriate normalized destinations. This is never my first design choice, to be sure. But more than a few times it has proved appropriate for certain clients. The normalized pattern tends to create a UI where you first must obtain the customer info, adding the customer if necessary, then create the order, then create the order details. It may be, in a given business, that the order detail stuff is most important. (Think of selling tickets to a concert, or any other product where quantity is strictly limited, and sold on a first-come-first-serve basis.) You call me and say, "I want two tickets to the Stones in NYC." It is much more important to immediately reserve two tickets, removing them (temporarily) from inventory, than it is to obtain your name. Once I have reserved the tickets, then I can create the order and finally (and I might add, most gracefully) ask the customer her name and her credit card info. Imagine this transaction going the other way, in rude terms: "I want two Stones tickets." "Who the hell are you? Name, address, birthdate, credit card info?" Back and forth for a while... and then the last remaining tickets have been sold to somebody else. Nobody in their right mind, IMO, would be happy with a design like this. My un-normalized table approach may not be the best solution, but it does allow me to ask for the data in the reverse order, most important (order details) first, and then work back up the chain. IMO, it is simply graceful to secure the product first and only then ask for the customer info, once I am confident that I do in fact have two Stones tickets for you. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 9, 2005 3:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 09:19:10 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:19:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent In-Reply-To: <001601c5b60b$d6e933b0$1e1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <006601c5b612$a1c2ec60$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> In fact that was my first thought, however if subforms are on tabs then the focus is set into the subform when they click on the tab. I did not want to issue warnings just because a user clicked on the tab, but rather wait until a key was actually pressed while in a subform. In this case, in order to work "automagically" in a framework setting one of two things has to happen. The dclsFrm class will have to be informed by the parent dclsCtlSFrm the state of the ctlSFrm's Locked property, i.e. dclsCtlSFrm "pushed" it's locked state into the class for the subform it contains. This would allow the subform to issue the message itself when a key was clicked. The other method would require the subform's dclsFrm to be "informed" by dclsCtlSFrm that it is a subform and passed a pointer to dclsCtlSFrm. Then when a key click occurs, the subform's class could call a method of dclsCtlSFrm telling that class to check whether it was locked and issue a warning if so. There are advantages to each, but by and large I prefer an object to handle it's own issues, so I would tend to go with having the subform control class "tell" the subform's class that it is a subform and that its container is locked / unlocked, and allow the subform's class issue the warning. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent Let SF_01 be the name of control on main form, acting as container for the subform in question. Code in its Enter event, as given below, will ensure that if the user tries to go into it while it happens to be in locked state, there will be a helpful message followed by transfer of focus to desired control on the main form. A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code in Enter event of SubFormContainerControl ================================== Private Sub SF_01_Enter() If SF_01.Locked = True Then MsgBox "Please Make Entry In ... First" ControlOnParentForm.SetFocus End If End Sub ================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: John W. Colby To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 01:01 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Child records entered before parent OK, so now how about where subforms require data filled in on other subforms, or just elsewhere in the system? I am building a system where a contractor has to fill out documents about the systems (s)he works on. The first level is that the document and system tables have to be filled in. Specific systems require specific documents so there is a m-m tblSystemDocuments which is filled in. Then a contractor table is filled in (or at least one or more contractors entered). Next a m-m tblContractorSystem table to relate contractors to the systems they worked on. And finally, a m-m tblContractorDocuments to track which documents have been sent to which contractors, and the status of those documents. Obviously you cannot fill in any ContractorSystem records unless there is a valid contractor (the previous email) but less obviously, you can't (or perhaps shouldn't is more correct) fill in any ContractorDocument records until ContractorSystem records are filled in. ContractorDocuments and ContractorSystems are both child to contractor. The combo that allows the selection of documents is filtered on the contractor side of ContractorSystem (since the subform and enclosed combo is child to the contractor form), but more specifically the cboDocument is filtered on the systems that are assigned to the contractor. So by knowing what contractor is selected in the contractor form, we can determine which systems are assigned to that contractor, and from that determine which documents are assigned to those systems, and therefore which documents to display in the cboDocument. So... The entire subform(s) ContractorSystem and ContractorDocument are disabled when you are on the new record (the strategy I also use), but as soon as you are on a valid contractor record, that strategy (if used alone) enables both the ContractorSystem subform (correct) and the ContractorDocument subform (not correct unless a ContractorSystem has been entered). Of course the combo in ContractorDocument that allows the user to select a document is filtered down to only show documents valid for the systems assigned to that contractor, but this still leaves the user able to enter other data in that record (a comment for example) when in fact (s)he can never complete the record by selecting a document from the combo - because the combo doesn't display any documents because no systems have been selected yet. And finally, how do you notify the user that these "rules" are in effect? As you might have guessed I use my framework for implementing the rules, at least where I need consistency in the application of rules such as this "child form unlocking". The framework has a dclsFrm which is a class for form stuff. dclsFrm has a control scanner that scans for every control and loads a class instance for each (or most) controls, text classes, combo classes and (of importance here...) subform control classes. Subforms have special processing required such as this stuff, so I have a collection in dclsFrm that holds a pointer to each dclsCtlSFrm (the subform control class). So when the scanner is finished, there is a class instance loaded for each subform control, and a pointer to each of those class instances are in a collection specifically for these subform control class instances. Now... When dclsFrm's OnCurrent and AfterUpdate sinks fire, I iterate the collection setting or clearing the subform control locked property (start at the bottom of the code, specifically the new record check): Sub LockSubFrmCtls(lblnLocked As Boolean) Dim ldclsCtlSFrm As dclsCtlSFrm For Each ldclsCtlSFrm In mcolSubForms ldclsCtlSFrm.pLocked = lblnLocked Next ldclsCtlSFrm End Sub Sub NewRecordCheck() If mfrm.NewRecord Then LockSubFrmCtls True Else LockSubFrmCtls False End If End Sub Private Sub mFrm_Current() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub Private Sub mfrm_AfterUpdate() On Error Resume Next mdclsCtlCboRecSel.FrmSyncRecSel NewRecordCheck End Sub This USUALLY correctly locks or unlocks the subforms, based on whether we are on the new record or not. The afterUpdate is required because if a new record is entered, OnCurrent does not fire so we have to also check and unlock the subforms when a new record is created and we "click into" the subform, saving the parent record. BTW, I use the subform control's Locked property instead of Enabled property because the subform can be clicked into allowing the main form to save it's record, whereas if the Enabled is used, the subform cannot even be clicked into and the record would have to be saved using a save button. However in this specific case my code also unlock the ContractorDocument subform, even if there are no documents that can be selected because there have not yet been any Systems assigned to the contractor. Almost as bad though, there is nothing that tells the user that a subform is locked except that (s)he cannot create a record, and in the case of the combo that can't display any documents because no ContractorSystems have been entered yet. Wouldn't it be nice if a message box popped up if the user clicks into a locked subform and then tries to enter data, telling the user that "this subform is locked because..."? To this point, this has fallen into the "user training" pile. I.e. the user just "has to be told" that things have to be entered in a certain order (which is always the case of course) and if they can't figure out why a combo doesn't display anything... Well... the training must be lacking... I am not entirely comfortable with "the training must be lacking" though. Thus the questions re "how do you guys handle this stuff". And of course some of us would ask if this is "over engineering" the application? Given the presence of the framework, and the ease with which functionality such as this is added, I personally do not think so but I am equally sure others do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 09:41:21 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:41:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Message-ID: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 10 09:42:34 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:12:34 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform References: <200509092223.j89MNCT12498@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <00da01c5b615$f8bf9240$1e1865cb@winxp> Arthur, Sample syntax for using With/End With blocks, while referring to controls on the parent form (from within subform), or on the subform (from within parent form) is given below. SF_01 is the name of control acting as container for the subform. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code In Subform's Module =================================== With Me.Parent .Form("control1") = "Insertion-01 From Subform" .Form("control2") = "Insertion-02 From Subform" End With =================================== Code In Main form's Module =================================== With Me .Form("control1") = 124 .Form("control2") = "This is some text" With .SF_01 .Form("control1") = True .Form("control2") = "This is some more text" End With End With =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 03:53 Subject: [AccessD] Update the value of a control on parent form from subform Shamil recently assisted me with the syntax to refer to a control on a subform, and now I need to do the opposite from within a "With Me" block. I tried "Parent" as in the following sample line, with a couple of variations, but I got it wrong. With Me .Parent.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl = 12345 .Parent.Form.MyControl.Value = 12345 End With And another thing about these "With Me" blocks. It appears from my experiments that you cannot nest them. I.e. With Me .control1 = 124 .control2 = "This is some text" With .mySubForm .control1 = True .control2 = "This is some more text" End With End With Whereas one can next Case blocks, While loops, If blocks, etc. Can anyone think of a logical reason why With blocks do not conform to the general rule? TIA, Arthur From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 10 10:04:58 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <20050910150457.IYBT1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? Susan H. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 10:17:59 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:17:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <20050910150457.IYBT1288.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <007201c5b61a$d4630030$6501a8c0@HAL9004> D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button solution. Thanks, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook > containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets > separately, > of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow > you to specify the worksheet. > > =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: Show > Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 10:36:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:36:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <007201c5b61a$d4630030$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <006701c5b61d$6bde6150$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When you set up the link, the sheet name gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the link fails. This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU decide (such as Sheet1, or CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match what the link expects and everything is fine. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button solution. Thanks, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel > workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the > sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the > import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. > > =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: > Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sat Sep 10 10:51:47 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:51:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: ..are you still in touch with Andrei? ...iirc this is right up his alley.. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:41 AM Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > Dear List: > > I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook > containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets > separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard > seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. > > Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do > the manual link or import procedure. > > OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import > It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems > with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 11:01:34 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:01:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006701c5b61d$6bde6150$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <009101c5b620$eac73660$6501a8c0@HAL9004> John: Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get them to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 times before they run the delete and append queries. What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the sheets > inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever the person > exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. Even if the > export > to Excel is automated, the designer may do something cute like name the > sheet with date and/or time info. When you set up the link, the sheet > name > gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the > link > fails. > > This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, then > you use automation to open the work book, then go through the sheets > setting > sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU decide (such as Sheet1, > or > CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match > what > the link expects and everything is fine. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just going to > jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I think I > should > use automation, though, so they can have a one-button solution. > > > Thanks, > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> >> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >> >> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >> >> Susan H. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 11:02:53 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:02:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <009601c5b621$1a205630$6501a8c0@HAL9004> We haven't communicated in a long time. But Colby's automation templates will probably do it. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > ..are you still in touch with Andrei? ...iirc this is right up his alley.. > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:41 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> Dear List: >> >> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook >> containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets >> separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard >> seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >> >> Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do >> the manual link or import procedure. >> >> OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import >> It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems >> with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 11:20:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:20:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <009101c5b620$eac73660$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. 8-) Intel using your software! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets John: Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get them to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 times before they run the delete and append queries. What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the > sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever > the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. > Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do > something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When > you set up the link, the sheet name > gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the > link > fails. > > This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, > then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the > sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU > decide (such as Sheet1, or > CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match > what > the link expects and everything is fine. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just > going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I > think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button > solution. > > > Thanks, > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> >> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >> >> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >> >> Susan H. >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 10 11:30:02 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:30:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. But still... Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > >What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe > system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. > > 8-) Intel using your software! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > John: > > Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get > them > > to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. > > I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link > directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 > times before they run the delete and append queries. > > What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe > system > > and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. > > Thanks and regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the >> sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever >> the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. >> Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do >> something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When >> you set up the link, the sheet name >> gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the >> link >> fails. >> >> This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, >> then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the >> sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU >> decide (such as Sheet1, or >> CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match >> what >> the link expects and everything is fine. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin - Beach Access Software >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >> D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just >> going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I >> think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button >> solution. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rocky >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Susan Harkins" >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >>> >>> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >>> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >>> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >>> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >>> >>> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >>> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >>> >>> Susan H. >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Sep 10 11:54:13 2005 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 09:54:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <005e01c5b615$b65c5500$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <000b01c5b628$45e99450$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Rocky, If the spreadsheet has a fixed format you can do this with queries. I have an app that a customer uses for this very purpose. I have it set up with the file explorer dialog so they can point to the file and bring their data into a temp table where we do some sanity checks on the data and then parse it out to the appropriate tables through some more queries. If your interested let me know off line and I'll see if I can pull out the query and dialog part and send over. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:41 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Sep 10 12:39:54 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:39:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query In-Reply-To: <002101c5b5fd$073eb2b0$8b1865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <0IMM00A0U3QF42@l-daemon> There are times there is simply insufficient data to complete both the parent and child. In one system I worked on, there were the workers and then the companies that they worked for. The company was the parent record and the workers were the children. Before a worker could even work for any company there had to be a security check which might take up to a month to complete. After that the worker could be assigned to a company. This system was sort of backwards to most so... ...The worker was initially assigned to company '0' and then re-assigned to a real company or to company '1' if they turned out to be 'a person of interest' or left in the pending company all depending the check results and the requirements of the employers. By using this method the parent and child relationships were always maintained. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Further to my previous post, if the time span for moving total is to include only the period upto current date (not the whole current month), apart from the two months previous to current one, the query would stand modified as given below. For getting the moving average in a similar manner, Sum in the subquery can be replaced by Avg. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ======================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And T1.SDate <= T_Data.SDate) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D.Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:20 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 12:39:50 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:39:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <000b01c5b628$45e99450$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Message-ID: <006901c5b62e$aa0089c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Doug, How do you do this? Do you link the spreadsheet to the database first? Does your query use an IN clause to treat the spreadsheet as a database somehow? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Rocky, If the spreadsheet has a fixed format you can do this with queries. I have an app that a customer uses for this very purpose. I have it set up with the file explorer dialog so they can point to the file and bring their data into a temp table where we do some sanity checks on the data and then parse it out to the appropriate tables through some more queries. If your interested let me know off line and I'll see if I can pull out the query and dialog part and send over. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:41 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Sep 10 12:50:00 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:50:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <43231CC8.5010102@shaw.ca> Here are a couple of rough sample methods to import and export via ADO or DAO from Excel and Access. So you could do in VBA code You can specify the sheet or even the invididual cell range. You will have to fiddle around whether you want cell headers used in tables. In certain cases the sheet name may or maynot have to be preceeded by a "$" The reference to Excel 8.0 refers to the data format type of excel not the Version which hasn't changed since Excel 97, unlike Access. In most cases you have to import to a fresh table in access and I believe will overwrite the Sheet name on export to to excel Sub test() Dim oConn As New ADODB.Connection Dim oRS As New ADODB.Recordset Set oRS = New ADODB.Recordset Set oConn = New ADODB.Connection With oConn .Provider = "Microsoft.Jet.OLEDB.4.0" .Properties("Extended Properties").Value = "Excel 8.0" .Open "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\Results\Products.xls" '.... 'Set oRS = cConn.Open("Select * from [Sheet1$A1:B10]", oConn, adOpenStatic) With oRS .Open "Insert Into tbltest SELECT * FROM [Products$A1:B10]", _ oConn, adOpenStatic '.Open "SELECT * FROM [Sheet1$] WHERE LastName = 'Doe'", _ ' cnnDB, adOpenDynamic, , adCmdText Debug.Print oRS.RecordCount .Close End With .Close End With End Sub Sub test2() 'sqlString = "SELECT * INTO [tblExcelNew] FROM [Excel 8.0;DATABASE=E:\MyDocuments\Test.xls;HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Sheet1$]" End Sub Sub ImportExcelToAccessAll() Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim sqlString As String Dim strmdbpath As String Dim strexcelpath As String Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb strmdbpath = "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\testADO range.mdb" strexcelpath = "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\Results\Products.xls" 'Assumes Access table does not already exist sqlString = "SELECT * INTO [tblExcelNew] FROM [Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & _ strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$A1:B100]" 'Assumes Access table exists 'sqlString = "INSERT INTO [tblExcelNew] (Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock)" & _ ' " SELECT Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock from" & _ ' "[Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$];" Debug.Print sqlString dbs.Execute sqlString Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Sub ImportExcelToAccess() Dim sqlString As String Dim strexcelpath As String Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb strexcelpath = "C:\Excel\ExcelADO\Results\Products.xls" 'Import to Excel 'Assumes Access table does not already exist sqlString = "SELECT * INTO [tblExcelNew] FROM [Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & _ strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$A1:B100]" 'export to Excel sqlString = " INSERT INTO [Excel 8.0;Database=C:\temp\MyWorkbook.xls;].[MySheet1$E6:G65536]" & _ "SELECT * FROM MyTable WHERE MyKeyCol = 99" 'Assumes Access table exists 'sqlString = "INSERT INTO [tblExcelNew] (Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock)" & _ ' " SELECT Product, UnitPrice, UnitsInStock from" & _ ' "[Excel 8.0;DATABASE=" & strexcelpath & ";HDR=Yes;IMEX=1].[Products$];" Debug.Print sqlString dbs.Execute sqlString Set cnn = Nothing End Sub Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. >But still... > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John W. Colby" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:20 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > > > >>>What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >>> >>> >>system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >>8-) Intel using your software! >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >>Beach Access Software >>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >>John: >> >>Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get >>them >> >>to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. >> >>I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link >>directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 >>times before they run the delete and append queries. >> >>What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >>system >> >>and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >>Thanks and regards, >> >>Rocky Smolin >>Beach Access Software >>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>858-259-4334 >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "John W. Colby" >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >> >> >>>One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the >>>sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever >>>the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. >>>Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do >>>something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When >>>you set up the link, the sheet name >>>gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the >>>link >>>fails. >>> >>>This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, >>>then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the >>>sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU >>>decide (such as Sheet1, or >>>CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match >>>what >>>the link expects and everything is fine. >>> >>>John W. Colby >>>www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>>Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>>http://folding.stanford.edu/ >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>>Smolin - Beach Access Software >>>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>>D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just >>>going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I >>>think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button >>>solution. >>> >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Susan Harkins" >>>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>>Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >>>>workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >>>>sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >>>>import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >>>> >>>>=========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >>>>Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >>>> >>>>Susan H. >>>> >>>>-- >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Sep 10 13:07:28 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:07:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VB.Net Express data handling Message-ID: <006a01c5b632$860aec50$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I was trying to pull an existing class that I wrote in the old VB.Net into VB Express and it didn't compile. In investigating why, I just ran across these two articles. The new stuff in Express is pretty darned cool. http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnadonet/h tml/datasetenhance.asp http://msdn.microsoft.com/vbasic/default.aspx?pull=/library/en-us/dnvs05/htm l/newdtastvs05.asp John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sat Sep 10 13:57:13 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:57:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <006801c5b623$8f7c0f30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: ..hey! ...I've got seven servers using Intel nics ...do they know its really Access? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:30 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. > But still... > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:20 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > > >> >What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >> system and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >> 8-) Intel using your software! >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >> John: >> >> Yeah - already came across a sheet with a leading blank. But I can get >> them >> >> to standardize. It's a division of Intel and they're pretty sharp. >> >> I'll probably go with your automation template (usually do) and link >> directly to the spreadsheet so they don't have to do the import wizard 6 >> times before they run the delete and append queries. >> >> What they're doing, just BTW, is taking a snapshot from the mainframe >> system >> >> and importing it into E-Z-MRP for their weekly planning. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John W. Colby" >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >> >> >>> One of the things you need to be careful of is the naming of the >>> sheets inside of the workbook. Often times the sheet name is whatever >>> the person exporting the data INTO excel wants to call it that day. >>> Even if the export to Excel is automated, the designer may do >>> something cute like name the sheet with date and/or time info. When >>> you set up the link, the sheet name >>> gets pulled into the link information. If the sheet name changes, the >>> link >>> fails. >>> >>> This can be worked around if the sheets are always in the same order, >>> then you use automation to open the work book, then go through the >>> sheets setting sheet one, two, three etc. to some fixed name YOU >>> decide (such as Sheet1, or >>> CustomerData etc). Close the workbook and now all of your sheets match >>> what >>> the link expects and everything is fine. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >>> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin - Beach Access Software >>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:18 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>> D'oh. Completely missed that. Thanks. This first test I'm just >>> going to jam their data into an mdb with some queries. Ultimately, I >>> think I should use automation, though, so they can have a one-button >>> solution. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Susan Harkins" >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:04 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel >>>> workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the >>>> sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the >>>> import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. >>>> >>>> =========The Import wizard's very first pane should show two options: >>>> Show Worksheets and Show Ranges. You're not getting this? >>>> >>>> Susan H. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Sep 10 16:03:13 2005 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:03:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <006901c5b62e$aa0089c0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5b64b$0f142cb0$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> John, Run the append query directly against the spreadsheet. I create the query in a string with the file path in the variable me.txtFilePath which comes from the dialog form. Here is an example. strSQL = "INSERT INTO tblImportTemp ( fldOrID, fldOrAssayID, fldTarget, fldReplicate, " _ & "fldDrugConcentration, fldModifier, fldModifierConcentration, fldResult )" _ & "SELECT [for Access$].OR_ID, [for Access$].Assay_ID, [for Access$].Target, " _ & "[for Access$].Replicate, [for Access$].[Conc(uM)], IIf(IsNull([for Access$].[Modifier]),""No_Mod"",[for Access$].[Modifier]) AS lModifier, " _ & "IIf(IsNull([for Access$].[Modifier_Conc]),0,[for Access$].[Modifier_Conc]) AS lModifier_Conc, [for Access$].Percent " _ & "FROM [for Access$] IN '" & Me.txtFilePath & "'[Excel 5.0; ];" There are several immediate If statements to make sure null fields have something in them. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Doug, How do you do this? Do you link the spreadsheet to the database first? Does your query use an IN clause to treat the spreadsheet as a database somehow? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Rocky, If the spreadsheet has a fixed format you can do this with queries. I have an app that a customer uses for this very purpose. I have it set up with the file explorer dialog so they can point to the file and bring their data into a temp table where we do some sanity checks on the data and then parse it out to the appropriate tables through some more queries. If your interested let me know off line and I'll see if I can pull out the query and dialog part and send over. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:41 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets Dear List: I need to convert client data on a regular basis from an Excel workbook containing five worksheets. I need to link or import the sheets separately, of course, but neither the link wizard nor the import wizard seem to allow you to specify the worksheet. Is there a simple way to do this? The user is sophisticated and can do the manual link or import procedure. OTOH, if I did it through code I could give them a form with an 'Import It' button and it would be a one click operation. I have had problems with TransferSpreadsheet in the past, though. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Sep 10 18:43:56 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:43:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets In-Reply-To: <00cc01c5b624$e4dcca40$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <20050910234355.GKSP10334.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> My sil and step-daughter work there. Susan H. Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. But still... From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Sep 11 00:50:41 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:50:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets References: <20050910234355.GKSP10334.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <01da01c5b694$be841770$6501a8c0@HAL9004> I'm supposed to go up there for a day maybe in a week or two. Names? Maybe I'll run into one of them. Give them your regards. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing Multple Excel Worksheets > My sil and step-daughter work there. > > Susan H. > > Well, it's just a little division up near Portland that's developing NICs. > But still... > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From robert at servicexp.com Sun Sep 11 12:41:15 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2005 13:41:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F34@gbsserver.GBS.local> Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 12 07:17:41 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:17:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for your assistance -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query There are times there is simply insufficient data to complete both the parent and child. In one system I worked on, there were the workers and then the companies that they worked for. The company was the parent record and the workers were the children. Before a worker could even work for any company there had to be a security check which might take up to a month to complete. After that the worker could be assigned to a company. This system was sort of backwards to most so... ...The worker was initially assigned to company '0' and then re-assigned to a real company or to company '1' if they turned out to be 'a person of interest' or left in the pending company all depending the check results and the requirements of the employers. By using this method the parent and child relationships were always maintained. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 4:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Further to my previous post, if the time span for moving total is to include only the period upto current date (not the whole current month), apart from the two months previous to current one, the query would stand modified as given below. For getting the moving average in a similar manner, Sum in the subquery can be replaced by Avg. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ======================================= SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And T1.SDate <= T_Data.SDate) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ======================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: A.D.Tejpal To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:20 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Chester, It transpires that your data is as per individual dates and you are seeking a query that will show against each date, the moving total for a span of three months covering the current month as well as two months prior to the current month. Sample query given below, should get you the desired results. Qty is the number type field being totaled while SDate is date type field in table T_Data. This can be adapted suitably for your specific situation. A.D.Tejpal -------------- ====================================== SELECT T_Data.*, (Select Sum(Qty) From T_Data As T1 Where 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) >= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate) - 2 And 12 * Year(T1.SDate) + Month(T1.SDate) <= 12 * Year(T_Data.SDate) + Month(T_Data.SDate)) AS MovingTotal FROM T_Data ORDER BY T_Data.SDate; ====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 21:50 Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query Tried your idea in the date DateDiff part of the query instead of DateSerial with the same erroneous results -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Elam, Debbie Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: DateDiff problem in a query You can use months in Date functions. Try DateAdd("m", 1, Date) to get 1 month from the Date. Debbie _____ From: Kaup, Chester Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: DateDiff problem in a query I have the following query to calculate a moving total. The theory is to calculate a total of a given date and the 2 prior dates. For example the row of the query with a date of 5/1/2005 should have a total of vm_wtri for March, April and May. I am using the DateSerial and DateDiff functions to go back 2 months. As you can see in the results some months this works and some it does not. The number of days back appears to be correct. What am I missing? Thanks for the assistance. SELECT [tbl One Well Water Injection].PID, [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date, [tbl One Well Water Injection].vm_wtri, (Select Sum(vm_wtri) From [tbl One Well Water Injection] AS T1 Where T1.Date >= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date -DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date ]) And T1.Date <= [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date) AS MovingTotal, DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])) AS [2 Months Prior], DateDiff("d",DateSerial(Year([Date]),Month([Date])-2,Day([Date])),[Date] ) AS [Days Diff] FROM [tbl One Well Water Injection] WHERE ((([tbl One Well Water Injection].Date)>=#1/1/1994#)) ORDER BY [tbl One Well Water Injection].Date; The results: PID Date vm_wtri MovingTotal 2 Months Prior Days Diff 424150174300 9/1/2004 7/1/2004 62 424150174300 10/1/2004 8/1/2004 61 424150174300 11/1/2004 23546.37 23546.37 9/1/2004 61 424150174300 12/1/2004 61430.49 84976.86 10/1/2004 61 424150174300 1/1/2005 43755.91 128732.77 11/1/2004 61 424150174300 2/1/2005 45906.27 89662.18 12/1/2004 62 424150174300 3/1/2005 34813.93 124476.11 1/1/2005 59 424150174300 4/1/2005 44469.81 125190.01 2/1/2005 59 424150174300 5/1/2005 3881.54 48351.35 3/1/2005 61 424150174300 6/1/2005 3881.54 4/1/2005 61 424150174300 7/1/2005 3881.54 5/1/2005 61 424150174300 8/1/2005 6/1/2005 61 Chester Kaup -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Mon Sep 12 14:51:34 2005 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 13:51:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" Message-ID: <33ee9523c3b8426889f8b7f4297306ad@christopherhawkins.com> Gah, I finally got it. My querystring looks like this: "Driver={Microsoft Visual FoxPro Driver};SourceType=DBF;SourceDB=C:\Foo\Bar;Exclusive=No;Collate=Machine;NULL=NO;DELETED=NO;BACKGROUNDFETCH=NO" What a PITA. I am reminded why I stick to SQL Server and Oracle. ;) -C- ---------------------------------------- From: "Christopher Hawkins" Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com>, Other .dbf files that are created by this program do indeed import into Access just fine. There are a few that do not (like the one I am trying to open). I am not sure what the difference is. > >UPDATE: I am able to open the file in Excel as a .dbf file. But I still cannot import the file into Access. On a lark, I tried connecting to it from an ASP page via a connect string, which didn't work either. This file seems awfully particular about who it will cooperate with! Opening in Excel but not importing into Access just makes NO sense to me. > >I've got every FoxPro and DBASE driver that Office offers installed. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- > From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:52 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not inthe expectedformat" > >In which case it might not even be a dbf (dbase) file. You can call an mdb >anything you want and Access will still open it. Maybe this thing just >calls its data files dbfs. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:36 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "external table is not >inthe expectedformat" > >It's coming from some shrinkwrapped management app they bought. They don't >know what version of .dbf file it is producing. They don't know much of >anything, really. > >-C- > >---------------------------------------- >From: "John W. Colby" >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 1:21 PM >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >Have you asked the client what application (and version) the table is from? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Hawkins >Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 3:08 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] DBF & Access: "external table is not in the >expectedformat" > >All, > >This is driving me nuts. A client needs me to be able to link to their .dbf >data file from Access. Every time I try to link or import, I get the error >message: > >"external table is not in the expected format" > >I've tried searching Microsoft's site and have come up with little so far. >I'vetried linking and connecting with DBASE5, III and IV. I'm not sure what >else to try. Has anyone else seen this problem before? > >-C- > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 12 16:47:55 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 07:47:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Subject headers on List In-Reply-To: <33ee9523c3b8426889f8b7f4297306ad@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <4326842B.25759.944F441@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Sep 2005 at 13:51, Christopher Hawkins wrote: "Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: DBF & Access: "............... Please! Can we either trim subjects or configure our anit-spam software to insert headers rather than modify subjects lines. This is getting ridiculous. -- Stuart From robert at servicexp.com Mon Sep 12 18:09:51 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 19:09:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F36@gbsserver.GBS.local> Anyone...?? I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH appreciated.... Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Mon Sep 12 19:01:31 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:01:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F37@gbsserver.GBS.local> The Error Report Generated basbeuDBAmodifyBEdatabase.beuDBArelationdelete ---------------------------------------------- Error number: 3265 Error Desc : Item not found in this collection. Error Msg : UnExpected Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error Anyone...?? I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH appreciated.... Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 12 19:31:44 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:31:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F36@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: On 12 Sep 2005 at 19:09, Robert Gracie wrote: > Anyone...?? > > I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH > appreciated.... Sorry Robert. I've been away from the computer for the last couple of days. I'm not sure if I understand your question. You can't delete a relationship with the BEU? If that's the case, can you send me, off- line, an example of where you can't delete the relationship. IE, just the data structure of the BE that won't work. I probably won't be able to look at it until tomorrow night, since I'm without access to a PC tomorrow during the day. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Every time I close the door on reality it comes in through the windows. From robert at servicexp.com Mon Sep 12 20:34:25 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:34:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F38@gbsserver.GBS.local> Bryan, The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least that's what it seams. In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution from you guys... :-) Does this help? Thanks Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error On 12 Sep 2005 at 19:09, Robert Gracie wrote: > Anyone...?? > > I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH > appreciated.... Sorry Robert. I've been away from the computer for the last couple of days. I'm not sure if I understand your question. You can't delete a relationship with the BEU? If that's the case, can you send me, off- line, an example of where you can't delete the relationship. IE, just the data structure of the BE that won't work. I probably won't be able to look at it until tomorrow night, since I'm without access to a PC tomorrow during the day. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Every time I close the door on reality it comes in through the windows. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Sep 12 20:53:43 2005 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Message-ID: <20050913015343.70474.qmail@web33114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 12 21:57:20 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:57:20 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT In-Reply-To: <20050913015343.70474.qmail@web33114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4326CCB0.10945.A603CB4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? > How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. -- Stuart From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon Sep 12 23:33:39 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 23:33:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F37@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: Robert, I don't remember ever having any trouble deleting a relationship. Andy Lacey handled grabbing the relationship name and I handled the actual deletion. So maybe he knows more about it. I don't, at all, understand the part of your question about deleting the link from the Front end though. What does that have to do with deleting a relationship? Are you deleting the relationship as a precursor to deleting a table? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error The Error Report Generated basbeuDBAmodifyBEdatabase.beuDBArelationdelete ---------------------------------------------- Error number: 3265 Error Desc : Item not found in this collection. Error Msg : UnExpected Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 7:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error Anyone...?? I have to resolve this issue soon, and any help would be MUCH appreciated.... Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Hello, It was discovered a while back (maybe by me, I can't remember) the BEU would fail on attempting to delete a relationship (I think because the GUID was different on each machine??). I can't remember if there was a work around? I notice also that in the BE that the BEU failed on, it did remove the tables links in the FE.. A2K BEU V2 2nd REV (I think) Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Sep 13 00:05:21 2005 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:05:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT In-Reply-To: <4326CCB0.10945.A603CB4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20050913050521.16820.qmail@web33109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry Stuart, I didn't even see them on the list. Thanks. Duh! Stuart McLachlan wrote: On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? > How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com May God bless you beyond your imagination! Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 02:12:51 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 00:12:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT References: <4326CCB0.10945.A603CB4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <43267BF3.9010909@shaw.ca> Here are two methods to get either general excel functions or those in the financial anaylsis pack from access Option Compare Database Option Explicit Function FindCeiling(pNumber As Double, pSignificance As Double) Dim xl As Excel.Application Dim varCeil As Variant 'general excel functions Set xl = CreateObject("excel.application") varCeil = xl.Application.Ceiling(pNumber, pSignificance) FindCeiling = varCeil End Function Assuming the Financial Analysis Toolpak installed Below is the code to get at the financial analysis toolpack's functions for excel xla library. Not sure which xla library has ACCRINT. 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Set objXL = New Excel.Application With objXL If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) 'intA and intB are parameters of call to LCM fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) Else fLCM = 0 MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Stuart McLachlan wrote: >On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? >> >> >> > >How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) > >They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. > > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 03:15:50 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 01:15:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT In-Reply-To: <43267BF3.9010909@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0IMQ00G0RXM905@l-daemon> Excellent solutions... What are you doing up so late? Good-night Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Here are two methods to get either general excel functions or those in the financial anaylsis pack from access Option Compare Database Option Explicit Function FindCeiling(pNumber As Double, pSignificance As Double) Dim xl As Excel.Application Dim varCeil As Variant 'general excel functions Set xl = CreateObject("excel.application") varCeil = xl.Application.Ceiling(pNumber, pSignificance) FindCeiling = varCeil End Function Assuming the Financial Analysis Toolpak installed Below is the code to get at the financial analysis toolpack's functions for excel xla library. Not sure which xla library has ACCRINT. 'sample call '?fLCM(24,36) ' Function fLCM(intA As Integer, intB As Integer) As Integer 'Least Common Multiple of Integers 'set a reference to Excel object library Dim objXL As Excel.Application Set objXL = New Excel.Application With objXL If .AddIns("Analysis Toolpak").Installed Then .Workbooks.Open (objXL.Application.LibraryPath & _ "\Analysis\atpvbaen.xla") .Workbooks("atpvbaen.xla").RunAutoMacros (xlAutoOpen) 'intA and intB are parameters of call to LCM fLCM = .Application.Run("atpvbaen.xla!lcm", intA, intB) Else fLCM = 0 MsgBox "Can't Find Analysis Toolpak atpvbaen.xla" End If End With objXL.Quit Set objXL = Nothing End Function Stuart McLachlan wrote: >On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > > > >>Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? >> >> >> > >How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) > >They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. > > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue Sep 13 04:59:11 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 05:59:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F38@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: On 12 Sep 2005 at 21:34, Robert Gracie wrote: > Bryan, > The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine > that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least > that's what it seams. > > In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was > used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works > ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and > relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. > > It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long > alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a > name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this > GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. > > If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at > the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember > what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution > from you guys... :-) > > Does this help? Robert, Like Reuben I don't recall this issue either. I have looked through my e-mails and I can't find any issue that is remotely related to this. The only thing that I can think of is to copy the actual BE to your dev box, this should have the relationship name the same as the production BE. Use this BE to define the relationship delete. That's as close as a guess I can come up with now. And unfortunately Andy is on vacation for 3 week. :( Sorry, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line. From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Tue Sep 13 08:36:09 2005 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02A8B2C1@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Hello all, In the past I have jumped through some pretty big hoops to give my users the ability to search and jump to the record(s) that they are in need of getting to. Searching on a single form is easy enough through the Search, or QBF, but what about when you have subforms, or want the users to search through the entire database for something or have a memo field that is need of searching.. Anyway, I was just wondering if I was missing the boat on the search capabilities of Access. It is so labor intensive to give the users a searchable form so they can easily jump to the desired record, as I very rarely have a single independent form that does not have a subform or 2 in it. Any tips, tricks, hints would be greatly appreciated.. Or pointers to any white papers, articles, tutorials.. Anything useful would be great as I've searched the archives and Google without much success.. Thanks, Rich From hoopesg at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:48:17 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:48:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Message-ID: Is it possible to set the cursor at the beginning of a field on got focus? I often provide people with an input mask for a date field but if they click into the field instead of tabbing (or Enter-ing) in they end up having trouble getting the date in correctly. Thanks, Gina From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:53:55 2005 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:53:55 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: Rich, Having some apps with similar needs...I typically create a search screen that allows the user to "mix/match" their search criteria...the form has 7 or 8 fields the user might want to search...and can fill in partially or fully 1 or all fields. A query is then run using these fields as criteria. The results are displayed in a subform...when the desired record is found...the actual form used to display all pertinent fields( and subforms) is launched using the PK of the record selected and only displays this record. I'm not sure if this is the best approach...just my favorite and most reliable for this function I have found. There are a few 'twists' to the approach...depending on how many records you are searching. If you are interested...I can go into more detail...or put together a sample to send OffList. Hope it helps... Mark A. Matte P.S...(just a little ACCESSD humor)...I was scared to use the word "unbound" to reference the search screen I described, because I know some of the discussions it might spawn...but anyway... >From: "Lavsa, Rich" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving", >Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access >Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:36:09 -0400 > >Hello all, > >In the past I have jumped through some pretty big hoops to give my users >the ability to search and jump to the record(s) that they are in need of >getting to. > >Searching on a single form is easy enough through the Search, or QBF, >but what about when you have subforms, or want the users to search >through the entire database for something or have a memo field that is >need of searching.. > >Anyway, I was just wondering if I was missing the boat on the search >capabilities of Access. It is so labor intensive to give the users a >searchable form so they can easily jump to the desired record, as I very >rarely have a single independent form that does not have a subform or 2 >in it. > >Any tips, tricks, hints would be greatly appreciated.. Or pointers to >any white papers, articles, tutorials.. Anything useful would be great >as I've searched the archives and Google without much success.. > >Thanks, >Rich >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:54:43 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:54:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access In-Reply-To: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02A8B2C1@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Message-ID: Rich, I found Martin Green's page to be somewhat helpful. Try this link for a description of a search box. http://www.fontstuff.com/access/acctut17.htm Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 09:59:44 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:59:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Message-ID: Hi List, I have a different kind of question. I'm using an Address Block for a snaking report. Within the "members" table, I have a field for Website Address formatted as a hyperlink. When the field shows up on the report, it looks like this: www.businessname.com #http://www.businessname.com# This is obviously because of the hyperlink. Is there a way to format that field so that the http portion does not show up, yet still maintain the hyperlink in the table? The users like the hyperlink, because all they have to do is click on the web address and the hyperlink takes the user right to the members website, so I would hate to get rid of it. Any ideas? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Tue Sep 13 10:01:09 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:01:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CD71@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> I presume your field is a bound textbox on a form? On the gotfocus event of the textbox, manipulate the sellength, selstart, and seltext properties to position the cursor. This should do the trick. Cheers Tom -----Original Message----- From: Gina Hoopes [mailto:hoopesg at hotmail.com] Sent: 13-Sep-2005 15:48 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Is it possible to set the cursor at the beginning of a field on got focus? I often provide people with an input mask for a date field but if they click into the field instead of tabbing (or Enter-ing) in they end up having trouble getting the date in correctly. Thanks, Gina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 10:11:53 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:11:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMR00J1NGVQRD@l-daemon> Hi Gina: This line of code would set the cursor to the last position of a piece of data in a field. txtMyFormField.SelStart = txtMyFormField.SelLength If the field is empty the cursor is placed at the first position in the field. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gina Hoopes Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:48 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Is it possible to set the cursor at the beginning of a field on got focus? I often provide people with an input mask for a date field but if they click into the field instead of tabbing (or Enter-ing) in they end up having trouble getting the date in correctly. Thanks, Gina -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 10:20:21 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 08:20:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0IMR0021DH9U2O@l-daemon> Hi Julie: Would it not be easy to pre-process the field contents removing the '#' from both ends and print the result? Mid(txtMyField1.txt,2,len(txtMyField1.txt)-1) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:00 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Hi List, I have a different kind of question. I'm using an Address Block for a snaking report. Within the "members" table, I have a field for Website Address formatted as a hyperlink. When the field shows up on the report, it looks like this: www.businessname.com #http://www.businessname.com# This is obviously because of the hyperlink. Is there a way to format that field so that the http portion does not show up, yet still maintain the hyperlink in the table? The users like the hyperlink, because all they have to do is click on the web address and the hyperlink takes the user right to the members website, so I would hate to get rid of it. Any ideas? Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 10:37:41 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:37:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: <0IMR0021DH9U2O@l-daemon> Message-ID: Hi Jim, I guess I could do that. Was just hoping that I could wrap "format()" around the field on the report and take out the hyperlink portion. You see, they have entered the URL into the field which by definition is a hyperlink, so when you view the field on a form, all you see is the www.businessname.com. However, behind the scenes, Access has also added the #http://www.businessname.com# in addition to the web address. So you see, there are two URL's that show up on the report. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Tue Sep 13 10:46:31 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:46:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Julie, Just a thought as I have never worked that much with Hyperlink fields, if your report looks at a query then couldn't you add something like this to it: SELECT Left([HyperlinkField], (instr([HyperlinkField],"#")-1)) As RptWebAddress Paul Hartland Database Developer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Julie Reardon-Taylor Sent: 13 September 2005 16:38 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Hi Jim, I guess I could do that. Was just hoping that I could wrap "format()" around the field on the report and take out the hyperlink portion. You see, they have entered the URL into the field which by definition is a hyperlink, so when you view the field on a form, all you see is the www.businessname.com. However, behind the scenes, Access has also added the #http://www.businessname.com# in addition to the web address. So you see, there are two URL's that show up on the report. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 11:09:08 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:09:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access References: Message-ID: <4326F9A4.8020009@shaw.ca> Use the hyperlinkpart function, it is called without access constants in SQL From the old Access97 help file HyperlinkPart Function Example The following example uses all four of the part argument constants to display information returned by the HyperlinkPart function for each record in a table containing a Hyperlink field. To try this example, paste the DisplayHyperlinkParts procedure into the Declarations section of a module. You can call the DisplayHyperlinkParts procedure from the Debug window, passing to it the name of a table containing hyperlinks and the name of the field containing Hyperlink data. For example: DisplayHyperlinkParts "MyHyperlinkTableName", "MyHyperlinkFieldName" Sub DisplayHyperlinkParts(strTable As String, strField As String) Dim dbs As Database, rst As Recordset Dim strMsg As String Set dbs = CurrentDb Set rst = dbs.OpenRecordset(strTable) While Not rst.EOF ' For each record in table. strMsg = "DisplayValue = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acDisplayedValue) _ & vbCrLf & "DisplayText = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acDisplayText) _ & vbCrLf & "Address = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acAddress) _ & vbCrLf & "SubAddress = " & HyperlinkPart(rst(strField), acSubAddress) ' Show parts returned by HyperlinkPart function. MsgBox strMsg rst.MoveNext Wend End Sub When you use the HyperlinkPart function in a query, the part argument is required. For example, the following SQL statement uses the HyperlinkPart function to return information about data stored as a Hyperlink data type in the URL field of the Links table: SELECT Links.URL, HyperlinkPart([URL],0) AS Display, HyperlinkPart([URL],1) AS Name, HyperlinkPart([URL],2) AS Addr, HyperlinkPart([URL],3) AS SubAddr FROM Links; Julie Reardon-Taylor wrote: >Hi List, > >I have a different kind of question. I'm using an Address Block for a >snaking report. Within the "members" table, I have a field for Website >Address formatted as a hyperlink. When the field shows up on the report, it >looks like this: www.businessname.com #http://www.businessname.com# > >This is obviously because of the hyperlink. Is there a way to format that >field so that the http portion does not show up, yet still maintain the >hyperlink in the table? > >The users like the hyperlink, because all they have to do is click on the >web address and the hyperlink takes the user right to the members website, >so I would hate to get rid of it. > >Any ideas? > > > > > >Julie Reardon-Taylor >PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. >44 Public Square Suite #5 >Watertown, NY 13601 >Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 >www.pro-soft.net > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue Sep 13 11:21:18 2005 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:21:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's In-Reply-To: <0IMR00J1NGVQRD@l-daemon> Message-ID: <000f01c5b87f$2ef0af50$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable for that. Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file names searchable ... Any help out there? Tia, Steve From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 11:28:05 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:28:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access In-Reply-To: <4326F9A4.8020009@shaw.ca> Message-ID: Wow, I couldn't find anything in 2003 that would help me. Thank you so much Marty. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From KIsmert at texassystems.com Tue Sep 13 12:08:05 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:08:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW Message-ID: Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, I looked o'er the store shelf and what did I see, Comin' for serve me some lunch, A blue can of hog flesh starin' back at me, Comin' for serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch !!!! -Ken From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 13:10:03 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:10:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access References: Message-ID: <432715FB.6010902@shaw.ca> I cheat, even on systems where I have only Access 2003, I reuse the old 97 help files. I also have desktop shortcuts to the adosql.chm and XMLsdk.chm ado260.chm etc. help files. Then when in access I just do a WinKey-M keystroke to get to the desktop. This keystroke just miminizes all open windows. The best bet for vba coding help is to retain the Access 97 help files and access via a desktop shortcut. You need all the .HLP, .AW, .CNT, .GID, and .FTG files from access97 that are installed in Program Files/Microsoft Office/Office Program Files/Common Files/Microsoft Shared Zip them up for later installs elsewhere into a new directory run a shortcut to ACMAIN80.HLP There is a way to put this on your command menus in Access via a button =Shell("C:\WINDOWS\winhlp32.exe C:\msoffice97\office\Acmain80.hlp", 1) Julie Reardon-Taylor wrote: >Wow, I couldn't find anything in 2003 that would help me. Thank you so much >Marty. > > > >Julie Reardon-Taylor >PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. >44 Public Square Suite #5 >Watertown, NY 13601 >Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 >www.pro-soft.net > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Sep 13 13:15:54 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:15:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3DEE@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> To quote an old pro (may be familiar to NRA types): "You can have my Access 97 help file when you pry it from my cold dead hard drive!" Good tip Marty. I keep my shortcut to this on top of the Start Menu. Note to non-US listers - NRA = National Rifle Association Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink in Access I cheat, even on systems where I have only Access 2003, I reuse the old 97 help files. I also have desktop shortcuts to the adosql.chm and XMLsdk.chm ado260.chm etc. help files. Then when in access I just do a WinKey-M keystroke to get to the desktop. This keystroke just miminizes all open windows. The best bet for vba coding help is to retain the Access 97 help files and access via a desktop shortcut. You need all the .HLP, .AW, .CNT, .GID, and .FTG files from access97 that are installed in Program Files/Microsoft Office/Office Program Files/Common Files/Microsoft Shared Zip them up for later installs elsewhere into a new directory run a shortcut to ACMAIN80.HLP There is a way to put this on your command menus in Access via a button =Shell("C:\WINDOWS\winhlp32.exe C:\msoffice97\office\Acmain80.hlp", 1) Julie Reardon-Taylor wrote: >Wow, I couldn't find anything in 2003 that would help me. Thank you so much >Marty. > > > >Julie Reardon-Taylor >PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. >44 Public Square Suite #5 >Watertown, NY 13601 >Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 >www.pro-soft.net > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 13 13:47:04 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 11:47:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's References: <000f01c5b87f$2ef0af50$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Message-ID: <43271EA8.2010906@shaw.ca> I use Google Desktop, maybe someone will write a plugin to search mdb's Maybe there is something similar for below method in MSN I am not using latest version of GDSE. but in the search bar type in filetype:mdb which will give me a couple of thousand mdb's in under 5 seconds or say for string in file name hyperlink filetype:mdb It will search inside all your text files with something like hyperlink filetype:txt Just your web links hyperlink filetype:url By the way using the GSDE you can call with API's from Access to get results returned in xml still a few bugs tho, especially with international (non latin) encoding of xml. Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) wrote: >MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It >doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable >for that. > >Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content >indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file >names searchable ... > >Any help out there? > >Tia, >Steve > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KIsmert at texassystems.com Tue Sep 13 14:10:24 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:10:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: Would you be interested in a solution that: (1) Doesn't build a SQL statement or Where clause (2) Doesn't build a filter string (3) Because of (2), can be setup to allow the user to do their form filtering/sorting on top of your custom search criteria (4) Can be a single form (5) Can use as little as 1 line of code -Ken From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Tue Sep 13 14:34:21 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:34:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337823@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> FYI here is how you can call Excel functions from Access: Two caveats- Not all Excel functions can be accessed (I believe there is a list of the valid functions in help). Second, an instance of Excel is launched so I would be judious in calling functions this way. It can be like using a bazooka on a fly (although flies here in Tx sometimes require one) Jim Hale Function irrExample() As Double 'Under tools references check the Microsoft excel 8.0 library Dim appExcel As Excel.Application Set appExcel = Excel.Application irrExample = appExcel.WorksheetFunction.irr(Cashflow) appExcel.Quit Set appExcel = Nothing MsgBox irrExample 'show the answer End Function Function Cashflow() As Variant Dim intI As Integer, arrCashflow(24) As Variant '****** The following loop generates the values for the IRR calculation 'you probably will want to fill the arrCashflow array from a table For intI = 1 To 24 arrCashflow(intI) = 1000 Next arrCashflow(0) = -20000 'set the initial cash outflow Cashflow = arrCashflow '****** End Function -----Original Message----- From: Lonnie Johnson [mailto:prodevmg at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PMT and PPMT Sorry Stuart, I didn't even see them on the list. Thanks. Duh! Stuart McLachlan wrote: On 12 Sep 2005 at 18:53, Lonnie Johnson wrote: > Does anyone know how to convert or duplicate Excel's PMT and PPMT loan functions in MS Access? > How about using the PMT() and PPMT functions :-) They are in at least A2K and above at least and IIRC, they were in A97. -- Stuart *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Tue Sep 13 14:34:55 2005 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 15:34:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02A8B329@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> That would be great.. Is that possible.. Rich -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Searching Access Would you be interested in a solution that: (1) Doesn't build a SQL statement or Where clause (2) Doesn't build a filter string (3) Because of (2), can be setup to allow the user to do their form filtering/sorting on top of your custom search criteria (4) Can be a single form (5) Can use as little as 1 line of code -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hoopesg at hotmail.com Tue Sep 13 16:37:27 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:37:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Message-ID: Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 10:12 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Position cursor at beginning of field Hi Gina: This line of code would set the cursor to the last position of a piece of data in a field. txtMyFormField.SelStart = txtMyFormField.SelLength If the field is empty the cursor is placed at the first position in the field. HTH Jim From Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au Tue Sep 13 18:17:03 2005 From: Bruce.Bruen at railcorp.nsw.gov.au (Bruen, Bruce) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:17:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Row level locking option - A2K Message-ID: G'day folks, Can anyone tell me whether selecting "Open databases using record level locking" on the Options/Advanced tab applies row level locking to linked tables or not? It appears to me that it doesn't... unless I have another problem somewere :-( If it doesn't, what is the impact of setting row level locking on the two BE databases used? Are the locks "passed through" sort of thing (I realise the locks are technically applied in the BE's). Finally, anyone got any ideas on the following - even where to start looking: I and one other guy are the only two users of this system. I've got A2K full and he is using the runtime. The FE and both BE's are on a Novel lan. generally, all things work OK, except... There is one form we wnat to use. It's datasource is a join over 5 tables - 4 in one BE and one in the other. It has several dropdowns that use data lookup from single tables in the BE's and has two subforms that display the same records - one as a list and one as a detail. This form would replace 3 active forms and could sit open all day .. iff it worked. BUT! it works fine for me but not for him. Anytime he tries to open it all he gets is a "A runtime error has occurred, this application will now close" etc etc. Any clues?? tia bruce This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Tue Sep 13 18:38:18 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:38:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server Message-ID: <200509132341.j8DNfKT19755@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Y'all Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to connect an Acces DB (Access 2003) to an SQL dB? Many thanks DD _________________________ Darren DICK TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au W: www.tripledee.com.au From dmcafee at pacbell.net Tue Sep 13 18:55:07 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:55:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <200509132341.j8DNfKT19755@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050913235507.63394.qmail@web80809.mail.yahoo.com> Access ADP: File -> Connection --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to > connect an Acces DB (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dmcafee at pacbell.net Tue Sep 13 19:08:51 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David Mcafee) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <200509132341.j8DNfKT19755@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050914000851.54734.qmail@web80821.mail.yahoo.com> Access ADP: File -> Connection Enter Server Name Select Login info (username / password) Select database MDB: In the Access MDI window, click on tables Right click in any white area -> Choose link tables Change "Files of Type" to ODBC Databases Select your datasource* * IF your datasource has not been created: Click on Machine Data Source tab Click on New Choose your datasource type (lets use System Data Source) Click Next, scroll to bottom and choose SQL Server Click Finish (even though you're not) Name the DataSource (so you can find it the next time you link tables) "DarrensSQLConnection" (or something more meaningful) Give it a description (usually just copy the line above) Select the server Click Next Select Login type / Fill in Uname & PW Click Next Check box that reads: Change the default databse to: Select DB Click Next Click Finish (you're still not finished) Test connection, if good click OK Now you are back where we left off before creating the Datasource Enter Login ID and password Press OK Select your tables (but dont press OK) click on Save password (many forget to do this) Now press OK. Hope this helps. David McAfee --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to > connect an Acces DB (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 20:19:57 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:19:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: <02bb01c5b8ca$6bb4c200$6501a8c0@HAL9004> I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access database to MySQL. If you can help write to srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 20:21:13 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:21:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: <02c401c5b8ca$98fa4410$6501a8c0@HAL9004> P.S. if you want to call, call this number: 858-437-3320 - ask for Scott. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:19 PM Subject: Emergency MySQL job I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access database to MySQL. If you can help write to srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From jmhecht at earthlink.net Tue Sep 13 20:46:38 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:46:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question Message-ID: <000c01c5b8ce$265add30$6401a8c0@laptop1> I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my Katrina help. Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units per box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA From jmhecht at earthlink.net Tue Sep 13 20:52:55 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 18:52:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A Another Inventory question Message-ID: <000001c5b8cf$071561b0$6401a8c0@laptop1> When doing an item out of inventory, when and how would you check and make sure you have that many widgets to pull out of stock. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 22:30:13 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:30:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question References: <000c01c5b8ce$265add30$6401a8c0@laptop1> Message-ID: <030601c5b8dc$9ea35f70$6501a8c0@HAL9004> If your system has unit of measure conversion then you can receive pallets and stock boxes or items. In what units are the things issued from inventory? That would be the units you want to stock them in. I would guess that boxes would be the most common issuing unit. Therefore when receiving items, receive the number of boxes. And issue boxes. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Hecht" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:46 PM Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question >I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my > Katrina help. > > Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units > per > box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. > > Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? > > > > Joe Hecht > Los Angeles CA > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 13 22:32:33 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:32:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A Another Inventory question References: <000001c5b8cf$071561b0$6401a8c0@laptop1> Message-ID: <030b01c5b8dc$f1bd5440$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Assuming you have an order, write a "pull" report showing how many of each item to be pulled on that order, then number on hand and the balance after the pull. Of course if you have several orders to pull, you need to consolidate all the items from all the orders you want to pull and run the same report, highlighting the shortages. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Hecht" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:52 PM Subject: [AccessD] A Another Inventory question > When doing an item out of inventory, when and how would you check and make > sure you have that many widgets to pull out of stock. > > Joe Hecht > Los Angeles CA > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Wed Sep 14 02:09:59 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:09:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20050914000851.54734.qmail@web80821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200509140712.j8E7CxT04768@databaseadvisors.com> David - you da man Will let you know how I got on Many thanks DD Darren TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2005 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server Access ADP: File -> Connection Enter Server Name Select Login info (username / password) Select database MDB: In the Access MDI window, click on tables Right click in any white area -> Choose link tables Change "Files of Type" to ODBC Databases Select your datasource* * IF your datasource has not been created: Click on Machine Data Source tab Click on New Choose your datasource type (lets use System Data Source) Click Next, scroll to bottom and choose SQL Server Click Finish (even though you're not) Name the DataSource (so you can find it the next time you link tables) "DarrensSQLConnection" (or something more meaningful) Give it a description (usually just copy the line above) Select the server Click Next Select Login type / Fill in Uname & PW Click Next Check box that reads: Change the default databse to: Select DB Click Next Click Finish (you're still not finished) Test connection, if good click OK Now you are back where we left off before creating the Datasource Enter Login ID and password Press OK Select your tables (but dont press OK) click on Save password (many forget to do this) Now press OK. Hope this helps. David McAfee --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to connect an Acces DB > (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Wed Sep 14 05:25:42 2005 From: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk (John Porter) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:25:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: Have a look at http://www.kitebird.com/articles/access-migrate.html John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: 14 September 2005 02:20 To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access database to MySQL. If you can help write to srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Sep 14 09:33:37 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:33:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337829@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> If you don't keep track of pallet count how do you reconcile to the shipping documents? Also, warehouse location often needs pallet count information to determine, for example, if a forklift is needed. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhecht at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my Katrina help. Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units per box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 09:42:58 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 10:42:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Row level locking option - A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bruce, I don't think it's a locking issue in the sense that your thinking. in fact, enabling row level locking may only make the problem worse. Chances are you are bumping into the lock limit in Novell and that's causing the problem. Novell limits the number of locks to stop a run away process, but Access needs a lot of locks to do what it does, even when locking at page level. Here's a link to check out: http://support.novell.com/cgi-bin/search/searchtid.cgi?/2914607.htm Also make sure your up to date on your clients, as it may be related to this issue: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q236101/ I know it says Access 97, but it applies to latter versions as well. It's amazing how often you still see old clients being used. Won't hurt either to make sure your up to date on Office and JET as well. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bruen, Bruce Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 7:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Row level locking option - A2K G'day folks, Can anyone tell me whether selecting "Open databases using record level locking" on the Options/Advanced tab applies row level locking to linked tables or not? It appears to me that it doesn't... unless I have another problem somewere :-( If it doesn't, what is the impact of setting row level locking on the two BE databases used? Are the locks "passed through" sort of thing (I realise the locks are technically applied in the BE's). Finally, anyone got any ideas on the following - even where to start looking: I and one other guy are the only two users of this system. I've got A2K full and he is using the runtime. The FE and both BE's are on a Novel lan. generally, all things work OK, except... There is one form we wnat to use. It's datasource is a join over 5 tables - 4 in one BE and one in the other. It has several dropdowns that use data lookup from single tables in the BE's and has two subforms that display the same records - one as a list and one as a detail. This form would replace 3 active forms and could sit open all day .. iff it worked. BUT! it works fine for me but not for him. Anytime he tries to open it all he gets is a "A runtime error has occurred, this application will now close" etc etc. Any clues?? tia bruce This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential information that is intended solely for the use of the intended recipient and may be subject to copyright. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the e-mail and its attachments from your system. You must not disclose, copy or use any part of this e-mail if you are not the intended recipient. Any opinion expressed in this e-mail and any attachments is not an opinion of RailCorp unless stated or apparent from its content. RailCorp is not responsible for any unauthorised alterations to this e-mail or any attachments. RailCorp will not incur any liability resulting directly or indirectly as a result of the recipient accessing any of the attached files that may contain a virus. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 14 10:24:50 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:24:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337829@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <000e01c5b940$74b28830$6401a8c0@laptop1> That's why I love this list. Experienced people in all industries. Thanks. Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 7:34 AM To: access at joe2.endjunk.com; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Inventory Question If you don't keep track of pallet count how do you reconcile to the shipping documents? Also, warehouse location often needs pallet count information to determine, for example, if a forklift is needed. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Joe Hecht [mailto:jmhecht at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 8:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Inventory Question I am doing a donation in and out database for a local food charity as my Katrina help. Inventory comes in on pallets. It is then broken down to boxes and units per box. Boxes * units per box = indiv items. Why am I keeping track of pallets if they do not effect inventory count? Joe Hecht Los Angeles CA -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 14 14:11:47 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 12:11:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job References: Message-ID: <432875F3.4030004@shaw.ca> Here is a $35 dollar Access Addin solution for moving simple tables to MySQL Does some MYSQL management too. http://www.hiden.org/myaccess/index.htm John Porter wrote: >Have a look at http://www.kitebird.com/articles/access-migrate.html > > >John R. Porter >I.T. Services >University of Strathclyde >Faculty of Education >76 Southbrae Drive >Glasgow >G13 1PP >e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk >Tel. 0141 950 3289 > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >- Beach Access Software >Sent: 14 September 2005 02:20 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job > >I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access >database to MySQL. If you can help write to >srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. > >Regards, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com >858-259-4334 >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Jeff at outbaktech.com Wed Sep 14 14:57:28 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:57:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Message-ID: Or go to the mysql website and download the free migration tool Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of MartyConnelly Sent: Wed 9/14/2005 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job Here is a $35 dollar Access Addin solution for moving simple tables to MySQL Does some MYSQL management too. http://www.hiden.org/myaccess/index.htm John Porter wrote: >Have a look at http://www.kitebird.com/articles/access-migrate.html > > >John R. Porter >I.T. Services >University of Strathclyde >Faculty of Education >76 Southbrae Drive >Glasgow >G13 1PP >e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk >Tel. 0141 950 3289 > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >- Beach Access Software >Sent: 14 September 2005 02:20 >To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job > >I talking to someone right now who needs data transferred from an Access >database to MySQL. If you can help write to >srobinson at venturesupportgroup.com. This is a fee job. > >Regards, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com >858-259-4334 >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 14 15:23:38 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:23:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Emergency MySQL job In-Reply-To: <432875F3.4030004@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200509142023.j8EKNdT15042@databaseadvisors.com> Since we're on the subject - does anyone have as easy of an answer for the other way around? From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Sep 14 16:18:11 2005 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:18:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's In-Reply-To: <43271EA8.2010906@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <002401c5b971$d2faec30$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Thanks, Marty. Well, Google won't run for some reason on my testing PC, but I just saw an article in PC World reviewing the latest crop of search apps. Right now I am testing Copernic, a freebie that lets you just add file extensions to its index - if it doesn't know what it is, it just indexes the file names. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's I use Google Desktop, maybe someone will write a plugin to search mdb's Maybe there is something similar for below method in MSN I am not using latest version of GDSE. but in the search bar type in filetype:mdb which will give me a couple of thousand mdb's in under 5 seconds or say for string in file name hyperlink filetype:mdb It will search inside all your text files with something like hyperlink filetype:txt Just your web links hyperlink filetype:url By the way using the GSDE you can call with API's from Access to get results returned in xml still a few bugs tho, especially with international (non latin) encoding of xml. Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) wrote: >MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It >doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable >for that. > >Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content >indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file >names searchable ... > >Any help out there? > >Tia, >Steve > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 17:09:48 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:09:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F39@gbsserver.GBS.local> Ken, LOL Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 1:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW: Re: SPAM-LOW Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, I looked o'er the store shelf and what did I see, Comin' for serve me some lunch, A blue can of hog flesh starin' back at me, Comin' for serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch, Spam-low, sweet Hormel can, comin' for to serve me some lunch !!!! -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 17:10:27 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:10:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3A@gbsserver.GBS.local> Ken, Do tell, Do tell Thanks Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 3:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Searching Access Would you be interested in a solution that: (1) Doesn't build a SQL statement or Where clause (2) Doesn't build a filter string (3) Because of (2), can be setup to allow the user to do their form filtering/sorting on top of your custom search criteria (4) Can be a single form (5) Can use as little as 1 line of code -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 19:17:40 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:17:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3B@gbsserver.GBS.local> Ok, Here is what the BEU Function beuDBAGetRelations returns for the relationship name. First Relationship Attempting To Delete. The GUID was created when I set up the BEU Works on 2 out of 8 BE's (Including my Dev BE) {437453F8-115D-4F78-A3EA-D92C48AB93BA} Works on 8 out of 2 BE's z_RFil5_tblReportFilters_z_RFil5_tblReportFiltersContents_263 In order for me to get this to work on the 8 BE I tested, I had to remove the above GUID from within the tblDBAModifyDatabase table and paste the 2nd string. However, it now does not work on the original 2.. Keep in mind the table & relationship structure is exactly the same between the BE's Second Relationship Attempting To Delete. The GUID was created when I set up the BEU {EF51A485-8316-40DE-A598-7D7D5C91D890} z_RFil5_tblReport_z_RFil5_tblReportFilters_262 Any ideas?? I have over 200 db's, through out the country, that need this update...:-( Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error On 12 Sep 2005 at 21:34, Robert Gracie wrote: > Bryan, > The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine > that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least > that's what it seams. > > In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was > used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works > ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and > relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. > > It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long > alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a > name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this > GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. > > If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at > the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember > what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution > from you guys... :-) > > Does this help? Robert, Like Reuben I don't recall this issue either. I have looked through my e-mails and I can't find any issue that is remotely related to this. The only thing that I can think of is to copy the actual BE to your dev box, this should have the relationship name the same as the production BE. Use this BE to define the relationship delete. That's as close as a guess I can come up with now. And unfortunately Andy is on vacation for 3 week. :( Sorry, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 14 19:32:51 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:32:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3C@gbsserver.GBS.local> Also, I should note, that the BEU created the relationships.. I'm going to try and find a BE that is at least 3 years old (one with out the original tables & relationships) and test against that.. Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 6:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] BEU Error On 12 Sep 2005 at 21:34, Robert Gracie wrote: > Bryan, > The BEU will successfully delete the relationship only on the machine > that the BEU relationship delete sequence was created for, at least > that's what it seams. > > In other words, I have a development BE (70 megs)(I test On), that was > used while setting up the BEU to delete the relationship, all works > ok. However on a production BE (6 megs), with the same exact table and > relationship structure, it fails with error I posted earlier. > > It seems that the BEU is looking for a specific GUID? (long > alphanumeric string) to identify the relationship (instead of using a > name combination)and attempts to build the collection based on this > GUID. Since this GUID seems to be system specific it of course fails. > > If I remember correctly I ran into this wall a few years ago, and at > the time I figured out away around it, but I can't seem to remember > what that solution was, and I'm pretty sure I received that solution > from you guys... :-) > > Does this help? Robert, Like Reuben I don't recall this issue either. I have looked through my e-mails and I can't find any issue that is remotely related to this. The only thing that I can think of is to copy the actual BE to your dev box, this should have the relationship name the same as the production BE. Use this BE to define the relationship delete. That's as close as a guess I can come up with now. And unfortunately Andy is on vacation for 3 week. :( Sorry, -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 19:43:50 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:43:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Error In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3C@gbsserver.GBS.local> References: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F3C@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: On 14/09/05, Robert Gracie wrote: > > Also, I should note, that the BEU created the relationships.. > > I'm going to try and find a BE that is at least 3 years old (one with > out the original tables & relationships) and test against that.. Robert, Could you send me a few of the BEs with the data stripped out? A couple that work one way and a couple that work the other and an old one if you find it? And maybe one that works both ways. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Thu Sep 15 07:58:58 2005 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:58:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: <200509151249.j8FCnSl25912@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Hi Group I have been asked about Source Code Escrow regarding a system I have written. My understanding is that I deposit the source with a third party and should my business fail or it fails to deliver support etc for the product the licensee can apply to have access/a copy of the source code to allow support/further development. Any one any experience here, pitfalls etc. Another question is what sort of fee (subscription) to charge the licensee - is there a rule of thumb, standard fees etc Cheers Richard From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Sep 15 08:11:56 2005 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Steve Conklin (Developer@UltraDNT)) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:11:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's - solved In-Reply-To: <002401c5b971$d2faec30$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Message-ID: <000401c5b9f7$0fa501e0$640fa8c0@CONKEY2000> Well, if anyone cares, deep in the Advanced Options of MSN's indexing, there is a list of extensions *not* indexed. Taking "mdb" out of this got it to index the mdb's. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's Thanks, Marty. Well, Google won't run for some reason on my testing PC, but I just saw an article in PC World reviewing the latest crop of search apps. Right now I am testing Copernic, a freebie that lets you just add file extensions to its index - if it doesn't know what it is, it just indexes the file names. Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: MSN desktop Search for MDB's I use Google Desktop, maybe someone will write a plugin to search mdb's Maybe there is something similar for below method in MSN I am not using latest version of GDSE. but in the search bar type in filetype:mdb which will give me a couple of thousand mdb's in under 5 seconds or say for string in file name hyperlink filetype:mdb It will search inside all your text files with something like hyperlink filetype:txt Just your web links hyperlink filetype:url By the way using the GSDE you can call with API's from Access to get results returned in xml still a few bugs tho, especially with international (non latin) encoding of xml. Steve Conklin (Developer at UltraDNT) wrote: >MSN Desktop Search is blazingly fast, but doesn't index MDB's. It >doesn't do Zip's either, but there are "iFilter" plug-ins downloadable >for that. > >Any one know of similar for MDB's? I don't even need the content >indexed, like it does for Word, Excel, etc; I just want the Access file >names searchable ... > >Any help out there? > >Tia, >Steve > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 15 09:28:09 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:28:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] finding duplicate records based on two fields Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337832@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I have a table with fixed assets by co and dept. I need to find the duplicates- ie records where co and dept are the same. Using the duplicate wizard I can construct the query to find duplicates where the dept is the same but I can't figure out the sql to find the records where two fields are the same. Any help will be appreciated. Below is the sql that finds dept duplicates TIA Jim Hale SELECT [Other Assets].Dept, [Other Assets].Co, [Other Assets].State, [Other Assets].[Fixed Assets] FROM [Other Assets] WHERE ((([Other Assets].Dept) In (SELECT [Dept] FROM [Other Assets] As Tmp GROUP BY [Dept] HAVING Count(*)>1 ))) ORDER BY [Other Assets].Dept; *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 15 09:33:09 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:33:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] finding duplicate records based on two fields Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337834@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Never mind, I figured it out Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 9:28 AM To: 'Accessd (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] finding duplicate records based on two fields I have a table with fixed assets by co and dept. I need to find the duplicates- ie records where co and dept are the same. Using the duplicate wizard I can construct the query to find duplicates where the dept is the same but I can't figure out the sql to find the records where two fields are the same. Any help will be appreciated. Below is the sql that finds dept duplicates TIA Jim Hale SELECT [Other Assets].Dept, [Other Assets].Co, [Other Assets].State, [Other Assets].[Fixed Assets] FROM [Other Assets] WHERE ((([Other Assets].Dept) In (SELECT [Dept] FROM [Other Assets] As Tmp GROUP BY [Dept] HAVING Count(*)>1 ))) ORDER BY [Other Assets].Dept; *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 15 10:20:03 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:20:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: I'm not familiar with the concept but it seems to me that you would have to keep updating and patching the code deposited in escrow or you would fail in the intent of the thing. What format would that "code" be and how would it be stored? I suppose that if you deposited a CD containing the native application you could keep giving them updated CDs, but who would be responsible for keeping track of which was which and how many generations would they hold? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Griffiths, Richard [mailto:R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk] Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 5:59 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Hi Group I have been asked about Source Code Escrow regarding a system I have written. My understanding is that I deposit the source with a third party and should my business fail or it fails to deliver support etc for the product the licensee can apply to have access/a copy of the source code to allow support/further development. Any one any experience here, pitfalls etc. Another question is what sort of fee (subscription) to charge the licensee - is there a rule of thumb, standard fees etc Cheers Richard -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 15 10:44:05 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:44:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview Message-ID: <000001c5ba0c$4e6ff0a0$0200a8c0@danwaters> I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? Dan Waters From mikedorism at verizon.net Thu Sep 15 10:54:04 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:54:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview In-Reply-To: <000001c5ba0c$4e6ff0a0$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <000601c5ba0d$b3c88010$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> If you open each report preview in dialog mode, the rest of the Do Loop will not execute until the currently previewed report is closed. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? Dan Waters -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Sep 15 10:56:37 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 08:56:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow References: <200509151249.j8FCnSl25912@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Message-ID: <432999B5.9090807@shaw.ca> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or Canadian http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm Software escrow FAQ http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 other online companies DSI Technology Escrow www.dsiescrow.com InnovaSafe Escrow Service www.innovasafe.com I did this several years back and rolled my own but I had access to free legal advice (kid brother is lawyer) and a records management depository vault( a site designed to survive a level 10 earthquake). It is probably easier to find an escrow service in your area, that will be familar with legal requirements for your jurisdiction (this is the important point). Look for directions from an Intellectual Property lawyer, a quick phone call. They do this for manufacturing processes and a host of other reasons not just software. It also depends if you are depositing your source code and/or documentation. If you want to deposit upgrades on a regular basis for upgrades or just backup, some escrow companies will allow this via CD's or probably more costly electronic updates. Recovery times from vault could be as long as 10 days depending on agreement. Cost cheapest maybe $500 initially with $50 annual fee. You will probably have to decide between 2'nd or 3'd party agreements with whomever you arranging this with see FAQ. Griffiths, Richard wrote: >Hi Group > >I have been asked about Source Code Escrow regarding a system I have >written. My understanding is that I deposit the source with a third >party >and should my business fail or it fails to deliver support etc for the >product the licensee can apply to have access/a copy of the source code >to allow support/further development. > >Any one any experience here, pitfalls etc. Another question is what sort >of fee (subscription) to charge the licensee - is there a rule of thumb, >standard fees etc > >Cheers > >Richard > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KIsmert at texassystems.com Thu Sep 15 13:16:30 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:16:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: One thought that struck me, upon reading the Escrow Associates contract, is that this could put the developer at greater risk, particularly if the developer is a small company, and the customer is a large, powerful one. A large company, particularly if it is your primary (or only) customer, could force you into bankruptcy and take your code, if they wanted it badly enough. This isn't just paranoia: the author of the Pick OS/Database system was in this position with his first (and only at the time) customer, a large defense contractor. The company simply decided to stop paying him, with the intent of forcing him into insolvency and taking his product. Fortunately, he put a time-based activation code into Pick that they didn't know about, so in several months it stopped working, and they had to come back to him, hat in hand, asking for it to be turned back on. Now, imagine if this company had had a code escrow agreement. They could have simply waited him out, enduring the downtime, and walked away with the source at the end. Depending on who you are supplying software to under an escrow agreement, this might be a concern of yours. One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would have the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would greatly encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's ill-gotten gains, because the code would be public domain. Just a contrarian viewpoint. -Ken >> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or Canadian >> http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm >> Software escrow FAQ >> http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 From artful at rogers.com Thu Sep 15 13:20:40 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:20:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Really weird message that I cannot figure out Message-ID: <200509151820.j8FIKfT15758@databaseadvisors.com> Environment: w2k3 server, access 2k3 (all patches applied). I have an app called DSA_App_2005-09-15. I back it up daily, giving it today's name. I use static functions a lot. I have one called CurrentAssessID(). It is a get/set function which accepts an optional parameter, i.e. the following two lines show how it can be used: CurrentAssessID( 123 ) ' sets the value of CurrentAssessID CurrentAssessID() ' returns the current value of CurrentAssessID I have been doing this sort of code for years, and in this app for months. Everything used to work well, until two days ago. Now suddenly something is broken and I am mystified. The really weird part about this is the messages I get. First, a line that calls CurrentAssessID() gets busted saying "Invalid use of property". Next, I get a message to the effect that the library DSA_App_2005-09-15 is not referenced. This makes no sense to me. The library in question is the app, so how could it not reference itself? I have already tried creating a brand-new app and importing everything and compiling it. On compile, it works, but then in run-time it fails. I am mystified and baffled and desperate for suggestions, insights, or at least sympathy. Arthur From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Sep 15 13:33:54 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:33:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Really weird message that I cannot figure out Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E01@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Do you have another machine to run it on to see if it's something in your Office or Windows installation? I can run for you if you like. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 2:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Really weird message that I cannot figure out Environment: w2k3 server, access 2k3 (all patches applied). I have an app called DSA_App_2005-09-15. I back it up daily, giving it today's name. I use static functions a lot. I have one called CurrentAssessID(). It is a get/set function which accepts an optional parameter, i.e. the following two lines show how it can be used: CurrentAssessID( 123 ) ' sets the value of CurrentAssessID CurrentAssessID() ' returns the current value of CurrentAssessID I have been doing this sort of code for years, and in this app for months. Everything used to work well, until two days ago. Now suddenly something is broken and I am mystified. The really weird part about this is the messages I get. First, a line that calls CurrentAssessID() gets busted saying "Invalid use of property". Next, I get a message to the effect that the library DSA_App_2005-09-15 is not referenced. This makes no sense to me. The library in question is the app, so how could it not reference itself? I have already tried creating a brand-new app and importing everything and compiling it. On compile, it works, but then in run-time it fails. I am mystified and baffled and desperate for suggestions, insights, or at least sympathy. Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From lembit.soobik at t-online.de Thu Sep 15 13:42:24 2005 From: lembit.soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 20:42:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow References: Message-ID: <001301c5ba25$37a1e400$0200a8c0@s1800> "> > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would have > the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would greatly > encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's ill-gotten > gains, because the code would be public domain. > " but this would not help in case the developers office burns down or the developer is run over by a truck. I understand these are the main arguments for source code escrow. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ismert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow > > One thought that struck me, upon reading the Escrow Associates contract, > is that this could put the developer at greater risk, particularly if > the developer is a small company, and the customer is a large, powerful > one. A large company, particularly if it is your primary (or only) > customer, could force you into bankruptcy and take your code, if they > wanted it badly enough. > > This isn't just paranoia: the author of the Pick OS/Database system was > in this position with his first (and only at the time) customer, a large > defense contractor. The company simply decided to stop paying him, with > the intent of forcing him into insolvency and taking his product. > Fortunately, he put a time-based activation code into Pick that they > didn't know about, so in several months it stopped working, and they had > to come back to him, hat in hand, asking for it to be turned back on. > > Now, imagine if this company had had a code escrow agreement. They could > have simply waited him out, enduring the downtime, and walked away with > the source at the end. > > Depending on who you are supplying software to under an escrow > agreement, this might be a concern of yours. > > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would have > the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would greatly > encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's ill-gotten > gains, because the code would be public domain. > > Just a contrarian viewpoint. > > -Ken > > >>> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or > Canadian >>> http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm >>> Software escrow FAQ >>> http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 15 14:22:38 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:22:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview In-Reply-To: <17656743.1126799951958.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000001c5ba2a$d5bcf350$0200a8c0@danwaters> Thanks Doris! Now if I can just clear the fuzz out of my brain!#! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview If you open each report preview in dialog mode, the rest of the Do Loop will not execute until the currently previewed report is closed. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? Dan Waters -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at texassystems.com Thu Sep 15 18:01:46 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:01:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Searching Access Message-ID: >> Do tell, Do tell OK, OK. A sample database is available. See below. ================= AutoFilter Basics ================= I call this solution the AutoFilter. AutoFilter doesn't build custom SQL statements on the fly. Instead, it uses a standard query with a fixed WHERE clause. This query allows you to return all rows, or restrict the results to any combination of field values that you have elected to filter on. Even though the WHERE clause is more complex than the custom one you would build in code, it often queries significantly faster than a form using custom SQL. This is because the query is pre-parsed, and only needs to be initialized once, when the form loads. Custom SQL must be parsed and initialized every time you change it. Because the magic all happens in the query, no form-level filter string is needed, either. Depending on how you implement it, you can even allow the user to use the built-in Access Form Filter functions, on top of the current AutoFilter. You can put the filter controls and the query results on a single form. I usually put the filter controls in a parent form, and move the results to a sub form. If your filter needs are simple (just a few filter fields), you can get away with two lines of code to implement. I usually add a Clear Filter function, which resets all the controls to Null, adding a few extra lines of code. Implementing the Form Filter on top of AutoFilter capability requires significantly more support code, with a small setup stub in the parent form. ===================== The Filter Expression ===================== All right, but how does it _work_? AutoFilter relies on a simple convention: for a given field, Null returns all rows, and a Value returns only rows matching that field value. This makes it easy to use: select a value from a combobox, and it restricts to that value. Delete the value, and it returns all rows. The trick is how this convention is encoded in the WHERE clause. Remember that annoying property of Nulls -- how if any part of an expression is Null, the whole expression becomes Null? Well, this WHERE clause leverages that behavior. Specifically: (Field = Null) returns Null (always) (Field = Value) returns True or False (depending on match) All you have to do is wrap this in a Nz() function, and you have the basic form: Nz((Field = FilterValue), True) = True This table shows how this expression works: FilterValue Null 3 0 =========================================== Field | 1 | True false false Value | 2 | True false false | 3 | True True false | 4 | True false false You can see how Null matches all rows, and values match any rows whose field contains that value. For an actual control filtering an actual field, the expression becomes: Nz(([MyTable].[Field] = [Forms]![frmFilter]![cboField]), True) = True Here, the current value of cboField filters matching values of MyTable.Field. String multiple filter expressions together with ANDs, and you have a WHERE clause that can filter any number of fields simultaneously. How many, do you ask? I've gone up to about 8 or 9, with little noticeable degradation in query speed. ========== An Example ========== So, how is AutoFilter typically used? The classic case is filtering a Primary table with a number of Foreign key fields: tblOrders tblCustomers (CustomerID) tblItems (ItemID) tblSuppliers (SupplierID) This data is ideal, because the fields being filtered on are Primary Keys, and therefore can't be Null. AutoFilter can work on fields containing Nulls, but you have to build a slightly more complex filter expression to handle that case. Building The Query ------------------ First, build a Result query that includes tblOrders, joined to tblCustomers, tblItems, and tblSuppliers. Include the key fields you are going to filter on, CustomerID, ItemID, and SupplierID. Include enough fields to identify both the primary and foreign tables to the user. Save it as qryFilterOrdersSub. Don't worry about the WHERE clause; we will add it later. Building The Forms ------------------ Build a Result subform, frmFilterOrdersSub. Set it to continuous forms or datasheet view. Assign its RecordSource to qryFilterOrdersSub. Finish by inserting the desired fields from the query, and arranging them so suit your needs. Save the form. For fastest performance, do not use comboboxes. The form should have Allow Filters, Edits, Deletions, and Additions set to No. Save the subform. Next, create your Filter form, frmFilterOrders. Insert a subform control, subFilterOrders, that holds frmFilterOrdersSub. In the frmFilterOrders' module, insert this code: Property Get RequeryMe() As Boolean subFilterOrders.Requery RequeryMe = True End Property Add three combo boxes: cboCustomerID, cboItemID, and cboSupplierID. These simply query their respective tables, and are bound to their respective key fields, CustomerID, ItemID, and SupplierID. In the Combo Box properties dialog for each of your combos, insert this expression in the After Update property: =[RequeryMe] This calls the property RequeryMe, without having to build an event handling routine. Save the form. Finishing The Query ------------------- Re-open qryFilterOrdersSub. Add this WHERE clause to the query: (Nz(([tblCustomers].[CustomerID] = [Forms]![frmFilterOrders]![cboCustomerID]), True) = True) AND (Nz(([tblItems].[ItemID] = [Forms]![frmFilterOrders]![cboItemID]), True) = True) AND (Nz(([tblSuppliers].[SupplierID] = [Forms]![frmFilterOrders]![cboSupplierID]), True) = True) Save the query. You are now finished. Looking At The Results ---------------------- Open the AutoFilter form. The results subform should show all rows, since the initial values of the filter combos are Null. Select a value from one of the combos. The subform should requery, returning only matching rows. Delete the value of the combo, and observe that the restriction drops off. You can easily filter any combination of values. Notes ----- * You can't do Form Filtering on this Result form. I got weird behavior when I tried it. If you can get this to work, I'd like to know how you did it. * I use AutoFilter forms for lookup only -- no adding or editing data. For that, I use a stand-alone form keyed to the selected record in the AutoFilter form. ================ Sample Available ================ I have a sample database that implements the simple form of AutoFilter (no user Form Filter). Contact me off-list for a copy (Rich, yours will be on the way tonight). I'm working up the coding for the more sophisticated form, too. Let me know if you're interested. In return for sharing, all I ask is that my fellow list members not publish this idea first. If you can't tell already, I'm thinking of writing this up as an article. -Ken From fhtapia at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 19:53:34 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 17:53:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text Message-ID: does anyone have a routine that will do the following: SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE SOME MORE ENTERED HERE AGAIN it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea is to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting here in case someone has ran into this situation before... Thanks :) -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From carbonnb at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 20:28:08 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:28:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 15/09/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > does anyone have a routine that will do the following: > > SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE > SOME MORE ENTERED HERE > AGAIN > > it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea is > to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the > middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it > ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting here in > case someone has ran into this situation before... Francisco, Here is a function that I wrote to limit line length to 80 characters for a Word template. You will notice that in the code it limits to 68, that is because of a line leader that gets inserted. It will also not split text in quotes, but will move it down to the next line if it can. It may be a good starting point. Private Function fMax80(strIn As String, strLeader As String) As String '-------------------------------------------------------------------------- '.Purpose : To Keep output Line Lengths to 80 charachters '.Author : Bryan Carbonnell '.Date : 28-Aug-2002 '.Called by : sExportToWord '.Inputs : strIn - String - Incoming string to Check '.Output : fMax80 - String - Return string limit to 80 characters '.Revised : 28-Aug-2002 - Original '-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Const cstrProcName As String = "fMax80" Dim lngPos As Long Dim strTemp As String Dim lngLen As Long Dim lngLoop As Long Dim bolInQuote As Boolean If Len(strIn) > 68 Then strTemp = Left$(strIn, 67) 'Check for quotes If InStr(strTemp, """") > 0 Then 'There is at least one quote so we have to break the line logically For lngLoop = 1 To 67 If Mid(strTemp, lngLoop, 1) = """" Then 'We have hit a quote mark, so we need to flip bolInQuote bolInQuote = Not bolInQuote End If Next 'Are we inside a quote If bolInQuote = True Then 'we are inside a quote, so we need to go back to before the quote Do While (InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, """") > 0) 'Loop to find the last " mark lngPos = InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, """") Loop 'Get upto last " strTemp = Left$(strTemp, lngPos - 1) & "_" & vbCrLf 'Add leader and check the remainder is not too large strTemp = strTemp & strLeader & fMax80(" " & Mid$(strIn, lngPos), strLeader) Else ' We can just break the line at a space Do While (InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") > 0) 'loop to find last space lngPos = InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") Loop 'Get upto last space strTemp = Left$(strTemp, lngPos) & "_" & vbCrLf 'Add leader and check the remainder is not too large strTemp = strTemp & strLeader & fMax80(" " & Right(strIn, Len(strIn) - lngPos), strLeader) End If Else ' We can just break the line at a space Do While (InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") > 0) 'loop to find last space lngPos = InStr(lngPos + 1, strTemp, " ") Loop 'Get upto last space strTemp = Left$(strTemp, lngPos) & "_" & vbCrLf 'Add leader and check the remainder is not too large strTemp = strTemp & strLeader & fMax80(" " & Right(strIn, Len(strIn) - lngPos), strLeader) End If fMax80 = strTemp Else 'Line less than 80 characters, so nothing needs to be done fMax80 = strIn End If End Function It gets called like this: Debug.print fMax80(strInputText, strLeader) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 15 21:22:10 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:22:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <432AB8F2.1945.19B30EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 15 Sep 2005 at 17:53, Francisco Tapia wrote: > does anyone have a routine that will do the following: > > SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE > SOME MORE ENTERED HERE > AGAIN > > it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea is > to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the > middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it > ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting here in > case someone has ran into this situation before... > Heres a simple wordwrap function. Note that it only wraps on spaces. If a "word" (which may be any string of characters not including a space) is longer that MaxChars, it will not be split. Function WordWrap(InputString As String, MaxChars As Long) As String Dim lngPointer As Long Dim lngLoopCount As Long Dim lngLastPointer As Long Dim lngLastSpace As Long For lngLoopCount = 1 To Len(InputString) lngPointer = lngPointer + 1 If Mid(InputString, lngLoopCount, 1) = " " Then lngLastSpace = lngLoopCount lngLastPointer = lngPointer End If If lngPointer > MaxChars And lngLastPointer <> 0 Then Mid(InputString, lngLastSpace, 1) = Chr$(10) lngPointer = MaxChars - lngLastPointer + 1 End If Next WordWrap = Replace(InputString, Chr$(10), vbCrLf) End Function -- Stuart From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Sep 16 03:48:01 2005 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:48:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow Message-ID: <200509160838.j8G8cUl05540@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Thanks for all your contributions. In my case the organisation is Local Government - I don't expect them to exploit their position, simply they are looking to a way of ensuring that if my company went under they could still use and maintain the application. The other thing I have come across is one org that offers escrow services (www.componentsource.com) does not charge for the setup and maintenance of the code - in addition a subscription is taken out by the licensee per year for this service - and this is split between componentsource and the software seller (me!) - seems like a reasonable situation. Richard -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lembit Soobik Sent: 15 September 2005 19:42 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow "> > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would > have the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would > greatly encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's > ill-gotten gains, because the code would be public domain. " but this would not help in case the developers office burns down or the developer is run over by a truck. I understand these are the main arguments for source code escrow. Lembit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ismert" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 8:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Source Code Escrow > > One thought that struck me, upon reading the Escrow Associates > contract, is that this could put the developer at greater risk, > particularly if the developer is a small company, and the customer is > a large, powerful one. A large company, particularly if it is your > primary (or only) customer, could force you into bankruptcy and take > your code, if they wanted it badly enough. > > This isn't just paranoia: the author of the Pick OS/Database system > was in this position with his first (and only at the time) customer, a > large defense contractor. The company simply decided to stop paying > him, with the intent of forcing him into insolvency and taking his > product. Fortunately, he put a time-based activation code into Pick > that they didn't know about, so in several months it stopped working, > and they had to come back to him, hat in hand, asking for it to be > turned back on. > > Now, imagine if this company had had a code escrow agreement. They > could have simply waited him out, enduring the downtime, and walked > away with the source at the end. > > Depending on who you are supplying software to under an escrow > agreement, this might be a concern of yours. > > One cheap alternative: write a contract that says, if certain > pre-conditions are met (bankruptcy, etc..), you will, for $1, release > the whole code base under the GPL (Gnu Public License), which would > have the effect of making it perpetually free software. This would > greatly encumber a larger company's ability to profit from it's > ill-gotten gains, because the code would be public domain. > > Just a contrarian viewpoint. > > -Ken > > >>> Here are some downloadable Escrow agreements American, British or > Canadian >>> http://www.escrowassociates.com/agreements.htm >>> Software escrow FAQ >>> http://www.softescrow.com/faq.html#16.0 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 16 04:13:06 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:13:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview Message-ID: Hi Dan Only if you use Access 2002/XP or higher ... /gustav >>> dwaters at usinternet.com 15-09-2005 21:22 >>> Thanks Doris! Now if I can just clear the fuzz out of my brain!#! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview If you open each report preview in dialog mode, the rest of the Do Loop will not execute until the currently previewed report is closed. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2005 11:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Repetitive Print Preview I have a need to let users view a 'stream' of reports in print preview mode. The reports are all based on the same report object, just different rows in the table. The problem I'm having is that a Do Loop won't pause code execution while the first preview is on-screen. Or, if I try to trigger then next preview using the report's close event, I can't open the report again while the code is still running in the close event (which does makes sense). Has anyone done this successfully? From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Sep 16 06:33:45 2005 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:33:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A97 to SQL2000 Message-ID: <200509161124.j8GBOEl22440@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Hi Group I have been given the task of moving A97 tables to SQL2000. The app was written by a user and so has little vba code (recordset processing etc). Is it as simple as importing data to SQL and setting up an ODBC DSN then reattaching the tables. I have tested on one or two tables and this appears to work okay. Are there known problems with this approach? Richard From fhtapia at gmail.com Fri Sep 16 09:19:08 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:19:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing text In-Reply-To: <432AB8F2.1945.19B30EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <432AB8F2.1945.19B30EA5@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: You guys are AWESOME On 9/15/05, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > > On 15 Sep 2005 at 17:53, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > > does anyone have a routine that will do the following: > > > > SOME TEXT ENTERED HERE > > SOME MORE ENTERED HERE > > AGAIN > > > > it'd prefer to have the code handle this on the ON CHANGE EVENT the idea > is > > to have the text break at the 25th character but if the break is in the > > middle of the word, I will need the break to occur before the word so it > > ends up on the next line as the sample above is shown... i'm posting > here in > > case someone has ran into this situation before... > > > > Heres a simple wordwrap function. > Note that it only wraps on spaces. If a "word" (which may be any string of > characters not including a space) is longer that MaxChars, it will not be > split. > > Function WordWrap(InputString As String, MaxChars As Long) As String > Dim lngPointer As Long > Dim lngLoopCount As Long > Dim lngLastPointer As Long > Dim lngLastSpace As Long > > For lngLoopCount = 1 To Len(InputString) > lngPointer = lngPointer + 1 > If Mid(InputString, lngLoopCount, 1) = " " Then > lngLastSpace = lngLoopCount > lngLastPointer = lngPointer > End If > If lngPointer > MaxChars And lngLastPointer <> 0 Then > Mid(InputString, lngLastSpace, 1) = Chr$(10) > lngPointer = MaxChars - lngLastPointer + 1 > End If > Next > WordWrap = Replace(InputString, Chr$(10), vbCrLf) > End Function > > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 16 10:22:35 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 17:22:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 16 10:26:37 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:26:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A97 to SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <200509161124.j8GBOEl22440@smarthost.yourcomms.net> Message-ID: <0IMX00G8G1KARE@l-daemon> Hi Richard: It is not difficult to move the tables up to a SQL server using SQLs import tools 'Action/All tasks/Import'. That is the easy part. If the previous designer has made a botch of the tables you have normalize then from there. The next hurdle is moving or more accurately replacing the queries by migrating and re-building them in Stored Procedures. Next the big process. That is where you build a middle tier in your new version of access that connects to the SQL server. My recommendation is to use ADO-OLE but if time and money are issues much of the work can be done through an ODBC connection... but there are some inherent issues with this method; performance is one. This process is a big one and it will require a length of time. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Griffiths, Richard Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:34 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] A97 to SQL2000 Hi Group I have been given the task of moving A97 tables to SQL2000. The app was written by a user and so has little vba code (recordset processing etc). Is it as simple as importing data to SQL and setting up an ODBC DSN then reattaching the tables. I have tested on one or two tables and this appears to work okay. Are there known problems with this approach? Richard -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Susan.Klos at fldoe.org Fri Sep 16 10:49:26 2005 From: Susan.Klos at fldoe.org (Klos, Susan) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 11:49:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range Message-ID: I have actually been able to find the weekdays. However, I need to set some parameters and I can't seem to do that. I borrowed the following code from someone's web site. It works perfectly for some of what I need. Public Function WorkingDays(StartDate As Date, EndDate As Date) As Integer '.................................................................... ' Name: WorkingDays ' Inputs: StartDate As Date ' EndDate As Date ' Returns: Integer ' Author: Arvin Meyer ' Date: February 19, 1997 ' Comment: Accepts two dates and returns the number of weekdays between them ' Note that this function does not account for holidays. '.................................................................... On Error GoTo Err_WorkingDays Dim intCount As Integer 'StartDate = StartDate + 1 'If you want to count the day of StartDate as the 1st day 'Comment out the line above intCount = 0 Do While StartDate <= EndDate 'Make the above < and not <= to not count the EndDate Select Case Weekday(StartDate) Case Is = 1, 7 intCount = intCount Case Is = 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 intCount = intCount + 1 End Select StartDate = StartDate + 1 Loop WorkingDays = intCount Exit_WorkingDays: Exit Function Err_WorkingDays: Select Case Err Case Else MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_WorkingDays End Select End Function I need to be able to modify this to find the weekdays under the following criteria 1) if the inServiceBegin is after FCATWeek (a single date) then exit the function. 2) if the inServiceBegin is before SchoolStart (a single date) then use SchoolStart and the startdate. 3) if the inServiceEnd is after FCATWeek then use FCATWeek as the enddate. 4) if the inServiceBegin is not null but the inServiceEnd is null (inservice is only one day long) then 1. 5) if the inServiceBegin and inServiceEnd are before SchoolStart then exit the function. I think I have considered all the possibilities. I am trying to calculate how many weekdays fall within the range of inservice days and these must fall on or after the start of school and on or before the students take the test (FCATWeek). I can use whatever help you can give me. Thanks. Susan Klos Senior Database Analyst Evaluation and Reporting Florida Department of Education 850-245-0708 sc 205-0708 From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 16 11:09:17 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:09:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E16@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 16 11:17:38 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:17:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: LOL I'm glad someone else is equally disenchanted with that sort of pasttime! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 16 11:20:44 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:20:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E17@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> Although it's probably a cut above whatever to do list my wife has planned for my weekend!!! Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment LOL I'm glad someone else is equally disenchanted with that sort of pasttime! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 16 11:21:25 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:21:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004e01c5bada$af8a23f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Indeed. My server has decided to die. Next. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment LOL I'm glad someone else is equally disenchanted with that sort of pasttime! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 9:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Entertainment eh? Gustav, your idea of fun is amazing!!!! ;-) Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ************************************************************************ *********** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". ************************************************************************ *********** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at verizon.net Fri Sep 16 12:09:56 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:09:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor Message-ID: <000601c5bae1$7b1db6c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> What happens when you leave your computer? To find out, visit http://www.justracin.net/is.swf Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Sep 16 12:20:17 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:20:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: 2 = 13112221 correct? I think I did one similar to this years back. If so, it would then be followed by 1113213211 John W. Clark >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 9/16/2005 11:22 AM >>> Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 16 12:28:31 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:28:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Error 3343 When I install Backend on server References: <40F80AD8.18919.6D50350@lexacorp.com.pg> <005401cb255b$d1b7dad0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <432B00BF.8010906@shaw.ca> This is really wild guess but could your mdb have an associated ADS file, that will be copied along with your main file on NTFS to NTFS file transfer, I have seen DocumentSummaryInfo ADS files attached to mdb's This ADS might be held open by someone else or another program. I have noticed popup windows concerning these little critters when copying hundreds of mdb's to another hard drive recently. Saying something like this documentinfo ADS will be lost. A quick way to strip these ADS is to copy the file to a FAT disk like a CD. Then copy from the CD to the server. I'll assume the .ldb file on the server is deleted. The Dark Side of NTFS http://www.infosecwriters.com/texts.php?op=display&id=53 ADS FAQ http://www.heysoft.de/Frames/f_faq_ads_en.htm Darren DICK wrote: >Thanks Stuart >I'll have to look deeper into this. >It is without question a server side issue and perhaps a permissions issue > >Many thanks > >Darren > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" >Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 5:05 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Error 3343 When I install Backend on server > > > > >>On 16 Jul 2004 at 12:46, Darren DICK wrote: >> >> >> >>>HI Stuart >>>Thanks for this >>>I have read and re-read the blurb from M$ >>>I still don't get it. >>>I have set the permissions on the TEMP folder on my DEV machine to >>>anyone can do anything they like from anywhere withany logon :-)) >>>Compiled - decompiled and compacted and repaired the DEV version of the >>>back end whilst it was on my DEV machine >>> >>>Then I copy this local DEV version of the BE to the server - drop it into >>>the expected place then try and perform some tasks and now I get >>>Error 3260 "Could Not Update; currently locked by user '(unknown)' on machine " >>>It isn't locked at all - like I said I have admin permission on the server. No-one else is looking at >>>that file at all. >>>The KB section of MS was useless. >>>Any suggestions?? >>>I'm starting to get desperate this will halt the deployment of the app due this Monday >>> >>> >>> >>I'd say it's definitely a rights thing. You need to look at the Share >>permissions as well as direct access rights to find out who can really do what >>on a file. Do you have Admin rights through the Share you are using? >> >> >>-- >>Lexacorp Ltd >>http://www.lexacorp.com.pg >>Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 16 12:47:24 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 13:47:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050916174725.PLSL20379.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You're one sick puppy... ;) Susan H. Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Fri Sep 16 13:00:03 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:00:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor References: <000601c5bae1$7b1db6c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: ..that was worth the visit! :))))) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 1:09 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor > What happens when you leave your computer? To find out, visit > http://www.justracin.net/is.swf > > > > Doris Manning > > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 16 14:01:12 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:01:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory App Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E1E@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> List, We're looking for a small inventory management system to replace our home grown system that tracks office supplies, pcs, and other equipment that is stored and/or deployed at various office locations in our 6 county market area. Can anyone recommend anything to me? We're a small (250+ employee) company so I don't need anything huge. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director of Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Sep 16 14:09:02 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 14:09:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Inventory App Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337841@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Take a look at www. fredrickgroup.com their inventory system may fit your needs. Best of all it is based on an mdb that is open so you can adopt their structure but create your own forms as required. Also, it is modular. HTH Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 2:01 PM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Inventory App List, We're looking for a small inventory management system to replace our home grown system that tracks office supplies, pcs, and other equipment that is stored and/or deployed at various office locations in our 6 county market area. Can anyone recommend anything to me? We're a small (250+ employee) company so I don't need anything huge. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director of Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Sep 16 15:44:19 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:44:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 16 Sep 2005 at 14:00, William Hindman wrote: > ..that was worth the visit! :))))) And then some. Thanks for the laugh Doris. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected. From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Sep 16 17:19:30 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:19:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Message-ID: <01f601c5bb0c$b5370250$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If Me.Requery End Sub MTIA, Rocky From nd500_lo at charter.net Fri Sep 16 17:54:58 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:54:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor In-Reply-To: <000601c5bae1$7b1db6c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <48rlb4$mne28c@mxip04a.cluster1.charter.net> That was a great way to start the weekend! Thanks, Doris -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 10:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor What happens when you leave your computer? To find out, visit http://www.justracin.net/is.swf Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 16 18:12:05 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 16:12:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Message-ID: Try: Me.FilterOn = False Me.Filter = strFilter Me.Filteron = True You can't change a filter when FilterOn is true Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 3:20 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Dear List: Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If Me.Requery End Sub MTIA, Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 16 19:01:19 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:01:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I need help Message-ID: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ From karenr7 at oz.net Fri Sep 16 20:22:43 2005 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:22:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509170122.j8H1MfT00948@databaseadvisors.com> John, Rabbi Gellman's idea seems like a good and doable one. I could help with designing the web site. I have FrontPage 2003 and Macromedia Dreamweaver, Flash etc., although I usually design by hand with a text editor. Also have various graphics programs. I don't have a web server myself to host it, but Yahoo actually has some pretty good packages with free domain registration and multiple mailboxes. Or maybe Database Advisors or some member thereof could host ???? I assume the database part would be a typical address/mass mailer type database, no? I can certainly do one like that, but am probably only intermediate in my database skills -- YOU are one of the database gods. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 5:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] I need help Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Sep 16 20:40:56 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:40:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter References: Message-ID: <025201c5bb28$d9190a30$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Charlotte: Changed code to: If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.FilterOn = False Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If but no soap. :( I've never had a problem pushing a filter string into a form. The filter might have been invalid or had bad syntax but I never got stopped at the door before. Regards, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > Try: > > Me.FilterOn = False > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.Filteron = True > > You can't change a filter when FilterOn is true > > Charlotte Foust > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 3:20 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > > > Dear List: > > Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - > you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = > strFilter? > > Private Sub SetFilter() > > Dim strFilter As String > > strFilter = "" > If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & > txtDateFilterStart & "#" > End If > > If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then > If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & > txtDateFilterEnd & "#" > End If > > If strFilter = "" Then > Me.Filter = "" > Me.FilterOn = False > Else > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.FilterOn = True > End If > > Me.Requery > > End Sub > > > MTIA, > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Sep 17 01:03:03 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:33:03 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter References: <01f601c5bb0c$b5370250$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <00a701c5bb4d$90aefc30$181865cb@winxp> Rocky, Modified code given below, should work smoothly. Basically, there was nothing wrong with your original code. The real culprit was found to be use of =< instead of >= , while building up second part of filter string. Some interesting features relevant to programmatic manipulation of filtering on forms are mentioned below. (a) Order of placement of Me.FilterOn statement with respect to Me.Filter statement does not matter. (b) Whenever statement Me.Filter = "" is used, FilterOn property of the form gets automatically set to False. (c) You don't have to use Me.Requery explicitly. It is redundant. Application of any fresh filter condition, takes care of requery as well. Last block of your existing code has been simplified accordingly. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- =================================== Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & _ txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate <= #" & _ txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If Me.Filter = "" If Len(strFilter) > 0 Then Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If End Sub =================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 03:49 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter Dear List: Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? Private Sub SetFilter() Dim strFilter As String strFilter = "" If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & txtDateFilterStart & "#" End If If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & txtDateFilterEnd & "#" End If If strFilter = "" Then Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = False Else Me.Filter = strFilter Me.FilterOn = True End If Me.Requery End Sub MTIA, Rocky From spikee at oatlandspark.org.uk Sat Sep 17 02:44:36 2005 From: spikee at oatlandspark.org.uk (Chris Foote (Spike)) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 08:44:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <200509170122.j8H1MfT00948@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Count me in John! Like Karen I have web site skills, although they are a bit more "mandraulic" than Karen's - I hand-code in a text editor. I'm pretty good at usability and cross-browser stuff. I do have my own "virtual" web server, but have not got a lot of spare capacity ATM. If there's anything I can do from England, do let me know at spike at ugandanetwork.org.uk. Best regards Chris Foote -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Karen Rosenstiel Sent: 17 September 2005 02:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I need help John, Rabbi Gellman's idea seems like a good and doable one. I could help with designing the web site. I have FrontPage 2003 and Macromedia Dreamweaver, Flash etc., although I usually design by hand with a text editor. Also have various graphics programs. I don't have a web server myself to host it, but Yahoo actually has some pretty good packages with free domain registration and multiple mailboxes. Or maybe Database Advisors or some member thereof could host ???? I assume the database part would be a typical address/mass mailer type database, no? I can certainly do one like that, but am probably only intermediate in my database skills -- YOU are one of the database gods. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 5:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; dba-vb at databaseadvisors.com; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] I need help Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Sep 17 08:40:34 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 06:40:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter References: <01f601c5bb0c$b5370250$6501a8c0@HAL9004> <00a701c5bb4d$90aefc30$181865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <002a01c5bb8d$6199cf20$6501a8c0@HAL9004> A.D.: Thank you. I am once again in your debt. Don't think I would have ever spotted that <= problem. So the message "you can't assign a value to this object" was misleading. It should actually have read "You have made another dumb syntax error in your filter string". Have to talk to Bill about that. With best regards, Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > Rocky, > > Modified code given below, should work smoothly. Basically, there was > nothing wrong with your original code. The real culprit was found to be > use of =< instead of >= , while building up second part of filter string. > > Some interesting features relevant to programmatic manipulation of > filtering on forms are mentioned below. > (a) Order of placement of Me.FilterOn statement with respect to > Me.Filter statement does not matter. > (b) Whenever statement Me.Filter = "" is used, FilterOn property of the > form gets automatically set to False. > (c) You don't have to use Me.Requery explicitly. It is redundant. > Application of any fresh filter condition, takes care of requery as well. > > Last block of your existing code has been simplified accordingly. > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > =================================== > Private Sub SetFilter() > Dim strFilter As String > > strFilter = "" > If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & _ > txtDateFilterStart & "#" > End If > > If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then > If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate <= #" & _ > txtDateFilterEnd & "#" > End If > > Me.Filter = "" > If Len(strFilter) > 0 Then > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.FilterOn = True > End If > End Sub > =================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 03:49 > Subject: [AccessD] Can't Set Filter > > > Dear List: > > Can anyone see why the following code should generate the error 2448 - > you can't assign a value to this object in the line Me.Filter = strFilter? > > Private Sub SetFilter() > > Dim strFilter As String > > strFilter = "" > If IsDate(txtDateFilterStart) Then > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleStartDate >= #" & > txtDateFilterStart & "#" > End If > > If IsDate(txtDateFilterEnd) Then > If strFilter <> "" Then strFilter = strFilter & " AND " > strFilter = strFilter & "fldPMScheduleEndDate =< #" & > txtDateFilterEnd & "#" > End If > > If strFilter = "" Then > Me.Filter = "" > Me.FilterOn = False > Else > Me.Filter = strFilter > Me.FilterOn = True > End If > > Me.Requery > > End Sub > > > MTIA, > > Rocky > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Sep 17 10:31:54 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:31:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I need help References: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <432C36EA.8070504@torchlake.com> John, This very idea is starting to happen in individual congregations - I know of a small church just about the size of mine that is already "adopting" a family, and I was intending to propose it to my own. So, I am very willing to offer whatever help and skills I have that would contribute to the project. The first two responses you received offered web-page design skills that are at a higher level than mine (although I am certainaly willing to offer mine as well). I am reasonably good with Access, although I agree with Karen that you are one of the Access gods. I have lots of word processing and data entry experience. I'm very good on the telephone. And, I can write. Please count me in, and use me wherever you need me. Best regards and blessings, Tina John W. Colby wrote: >Guys, > >I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database >behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in >implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ > >I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him >assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will >be talking to him shortly. > >I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know >what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know >more. > >Thanks > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > From mikedorism at verizon.net Sat Sep 17 12:31:54 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 13:31:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5bbad$b35510c0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Let me know if there is anything I can do to help on the database end. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From kathryn at bassett.net Sat Sep 17 14:06:48 2005 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 12:06:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] From the AC100 Finish Line Message-ID: <20050917120655.55D99C40@dm16.mta.everyone.net> Hi all! Seems like every year at this time, I've had to put out a frantic plea for help because my race database broke at the last minute. This year, things are going great! I'm not having to use my Access db except as a backup. The guy who wrote the program for the checkpoints to communicate via ham radio to the net control, has tweaked his program to be able to upload to the web server. So, all I had to do was tweak the web pages to include the uploaded data. Hooray! Means I can get some breaks and don't have to be under the stress of past years. And best of all, it's getting updated every five minutes. Check it out - the "last seen" is condensed for me to print out here at the finish line so that the people here can keep track of their runner: http://ac100.com/finish/lastseen.shtml And if you click on either of the Splits menu, you can see the entire list with all the checkpoint times. So, even though I'm not using my program anymore (except as the backup I mentioned), it's been a wonder experience through the years with "you all" helping me tweak it. -- Kathryn Bassett (Pasadena CA) kathryn at bassett.net http://www.ac100.com/finish/ Personal site - http://bassett.net From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Sun Sep 18 09:27:41 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:27:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <20050914000851.54734.qmail@web80821.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200509181428.j8IESFT10655@databaseadvisors.com> Brilliant Thnaks David Just What I needed Darren TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Mcafee Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2005 10:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2003: I need to connect to SQL Server Access ADP: File -> Connection Enter Server Name Select Login info (username / password) Select database MDB: In the Access MDI window, click on tables Right click in any white area -> Choose link tables Change "Files of Type" to ODBC Databases Select your datasource* * IF your datasource has not been created: Click on Machine Data Source tab Click on New Choose your datasource type (lets use System Data Source) Click Next, scroll to bottom and choose SQL Server Click Finish (even though you're not) Name the DataSource (so you can find it the next time you link tables) "DarrensSQLConnection" (or something more meaningful) Give it a description (usually just copy the line above) Select the server Click Next Select Login type / Fill in Uname & PW Click Next Check box that reads: Change the default databse to: Select DB Click Next Click Finish (you're still not finished) Test connection, if good click OK Now you are back where we left off before creating the Datasource Enter Login ID and password Press OK Select your tables (but dont press OK) click on Save password (many forget to do this) Now press OK. Hope this helps. David McAfee --- Darren DICK wrote: > Hi Y'all > Can some-one hold my hand and teach me how to connect an Acces DB > (Access > 2003) to an SQL dB? > > Many thanks > > DD > > > _________________________ > Darren DICK > TripleDee Databases > T: 0424 696 433 > E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au > W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kimjwiggins at yahoo.com Sun Sep 18 16:18:05 2005 From: kimjwiggins at yahoo.com (Kim Wiggins) Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2005 14:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050918211805.41918.qmail@web53609.mail.yahoo.com> I monitor this list just to keep abreast of all the wonderful things you guys are doing here. I can offer some web design with FrontPage and database. Of course, my database experience is nothing near what yours is but I can help. Also like someone else mentioned, I can do word processing, data entry and write letters. I have excellent writing skills. Let me know where I can assist because I have been looking for some way to be help more outside of giving money. Kim "John W. Colby" wrote: Guys, I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9344139/site/newsweek/ I have a positive email response to an email I sent him offering him assistance. I have a call in to him to a phone number he gave me, and will be talking to him shortly. I am just trying to get some help lined up so I can move quickly when I know what is needed. Details will follow to those who volunteer when I know more. Thanks John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. From artful at rogers.com Mon Sep 19 01:00:11 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 02:00:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509190600.j8J609T20622@databaseadvisors.com> This code may work for some specific country, but woe to the person who must internationalize it! There is no shortcut to the solution (IMO) other than creating a Holidays table and entering therein the holidays that are particular to your nation, or the user's nation, should you happen to have transnational marketing ambitions. July 1 in Canada is important, and July 4 in USA is important. Neither nation considers the other date important. We (in Canada) regard July 4 as just another working, lest it fall upon a Saturday or Sunday, and the converse holds in the USA regarding July 1. Further, and again this comes from a Canadian perspective, there are holidays in various provinces that are not recognized as such in other provinces, so even if your market is Canada-only, you have to graduate beyond this algorithm. Suppose you have a table called Holidays. Then you take the Start and Stop days and count the Holidays between (noting those occasions when a holiday happens to fall on a Saturday or Sunday. Then you can apply the rest of the logic. But even then, who is to say that Saturday and Sunday are not working days? I can go to many stores on both days and find them open. And for some reason that I have never nailed down, numerous East Indian restaurants in this 'hood close on Mondays. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Klos, Susan Sent: September 16, 2005 11:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range I have actually been able to find the weekdays. However, I need to set some parameters and I can't seem to do that. I borrowed the following code from someone's web site. It works perfectly for some of what I need. Public Function WorkingDays(StartDate As Date, EndDate As Date) As Integer '.................................................................... ' Name: WorkingDays ' Inputs: StartDate As Date ' EndDate As Date ' Returns: Integer ' Author: Arvin Meyer ' Date: February 19, 1997 ' Comment: Accepts two dates and returns the number of weekdays between them ' Note that this function does not account for holidays. '.................................................................... On Error GoTo Err_WorkingDays Dim intCount As Integer 'StartDate = StartDate + 1 'If you want to count the day of StartDate as the 1st day 'Comment out the line above intCount = 0 Do While StartDate <= EndDate 'Make the above < and not <= to not count the EndDate Select Case Weekday(StartDate) Case Is = 1, 7 intCount = intCount Case Is = 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 intCount = intCount + 1 End Select StartDate = StartDate + 1 Loop WorkingDays = intCount Exit_WorkingDays: Exit Function Err_WorkingDays: Select Case Err Case Else MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_WorkingDays End Select End Function I need to be able to modify this to find the weekdays under the following criteria 1) if the inServiceBegin is after FCATWeek (a single date) then exit the function. 2) if the inServiceBegin is before SchoolStart (a single date) then use SchoolStart and the startdate. 3) if the inServiceEnd is after FCATWeek then use FCATWeek as the enddate. 4) if the inServiceBegin is not null but the inServiceEnd is null (inservice is only one day long) then 1. 5) if the inServiceBegin and inServiceEnd are before SchoolStart then exit the function. I think I have considered all the possibilities. I am trying to calculate how many weekdays fall within the range of inservice days and these must fall on or after the start of school and on or before the students take the test (FCATWeek). I can use whatever help you can give me. Thanks. Susan Klos Senior Database Analyst Evaluation and Reporting Florida Department of Education 850-245-0708 sc 205-0708 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Sep 19 02:18:59 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:18:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question Message-ID: <001001c5bcea$e0d45c70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Hi All, Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that CustomerID is used for rows ordering: SELECT * FROM (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM (SELECT TOP 50 * FROM Customers ORDER BY CustomerID) ORDER BY CustomerID DESC) ORDER BY CustomerID It works in MS Access 2000/XP/2003. Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar simple queries (with additional central nested query with WHERE expression of course) when end-user moves between pages of selected search results? Or they use saved search rows' IDs because with dynamic requery as in the query above search results may change and because they allow to search within results of the previous search? My humble guess they use this simple and very well scalable solution. What is your opinion? Thank you, Shamil P.S. Credits to: http://www.richardxin.com/SQLPaging.aspx From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 19 05:45:21 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:45:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Finding weekdays within a date range In-Reply-To: <200509190600.j8J609T20622@databaseadvisors.com> References: Message-ID: <432F2361.13895.1241E0B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 19 Sep 2005 at 2:00, Arthur Fuller wrote: > This code may work for some specific country, but woe to the person who must > internationalize it! .... > logic. But even then, who is to say that Saturday and Sunday are not working > days? I can go to many stores on both days and find them open. And for some > reason that I have never nailed down, numerous East Indian restaurants in > this 'hood close on Mondays. > That's very common world wide, because Monday tends to be the quietest day of the week for people to "eat out", Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights are often the busiest of the week in the restaurant trade. Also, in many muslim countries Friday is the main religious day of rest/worship and the working week is Sunday to Thursday. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 19 06:00:57 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:00:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Question In-Reply-To: <001001c5bcea$e0d45c70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <432F2709.13744.132662B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 19 Sep 2005 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi All, > > Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that > CustomerID is used for rows ordering: > .... > > Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar > simple queries Repeat of my posting to this list on 7 May 2005: On 6 May 2005 at 10:43, Joe Rojas wrote: > Hi All, > > How do sites like eBay show only X number of items at a time and allow users to jump to a page number or click next? > > Is there a SQL statement that allows you to select the 2nd > (3rd,4th,5th,...)set of X number of records in a database? > If they are using MySQL they will be using the LIMIT command The LIMIT clause can be used to constrain the number of rows returned by the SELECT statement. LIMIT takes one or two numeric arguments, which must be integer constants. With two arguments, the first argument specifies the offset of the first row to return, and the second specifies the maximum number of rows to return. The offset of the initial row is 0 (not 1): mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 -- Stuart From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 19 08:25:12 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Message-ID: The following code generates a type mismatch error when the table tries to open. I am not seeing a problem since the code ran in another DB. References are set for VB for Applications, MS Access 11.0 Object Library, OLE Automation, Microsoft DAO 3.6 Object Library and Microsoft Active X Data Objects 2.1 library. tbl Wells to Allocate is a native access table. Thanks for the assistance Function AllocationFactors() Dim MyDb As Database, myds1 As Recordset Set MyDb = CurrentDb() Set myds1 = MyDb.OpenRecordset("tbl Wells to Allocate", dbOpenTable) Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From shamil at users.mns.ru Mon Sep 19 08:35:07 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:35:07 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Question References: <432F2709.13744.132662B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <001701c5bd1e$f6420ec0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 Does Google use mySQL? Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question > On 19 Sep 2005 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that > > CustomerID is used for rows ordering: > > > .... > > > > Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar > > simple queries > > Repeat of my posting to this list on 7 May 2005: > > On 6 May 2005 at 10:43, Joe Rojas wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > How do sites like eBay show only X number of items at a time and allow users to jump to a page number or click next? > > > > Is there a SQL statement that allows you to select the 2nd > > (3rd,4th,5th,...)set of X number of records in a database? > > > > If they are using MySQL they will be using the LIMIT command > > > The LIMIT clause can be used to constrain the number of rows returned by > the SELECT statement. LIMIT takes one or two numeric arguments, which must > be integer constants. > > With two arguments, the first argument specifies the offset of the first > row to return, and the second specifies the maximum number of rows to > return. The offset of the initial row is 0 (not 1): > > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Mon Sep 19 08:41:19 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:41:19 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CDA8@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Chester The first thing that springs to mind - when you declare your data objects (recordset etc.) try explicitly naming the types, as I notice you have references set to both ADO and DAO. Hence: Dim MyDb As DAO.Database, myds1 As DAO.Recordset Maybe this'll help? Cheers Tom -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: 19-Sep-2005 14:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error The following code generates a type mismatch error when the table tries to open. I am not seeing a problem since the code ran in another DB. References are set for VB for Applications, MS Access 11.0 Object Library, OLE Automation, Microsoft DAO 3.6 Object Library and Microsoft Active X Data Objects 2.1 library. tbl Wells to Allocate is a native access table. Thanks for the assistance Function AllocationFactors() Dim MyDb As Database, myds1 As Recordset Set MyDb = CurrentDb() Set myds1 = MyDb.OpenRecordset("tbl Wells to Allocate", dbOpenTable) Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 19 08:55:40 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Message-ID: Thanks. That got it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tom Bolton Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 8:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Type mismatch error Hi Chester The first thing that springs to mind - when you declare your data objects (recordset etc.) try explicitly naming the types, as I notice you have references set to both ADO and DAO. Hence: Dim MyDb As DAO.Database, myds1 As DAO.Recordset Maybe this'll help? Cheers Tom -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: 19-Sep-2005 14:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Type mismatch error The following code generates a type mismatch error when the table tries to open. I am not seeing a problem since the code ran in another DB. References are set for VB for Applications, MS Access 11.0 Object Library, OLE Automation, Microsoft DAO 3.6 Object Library and Microsoft Active X Data Objects 2.1 library. tbl Wells to Allocate is a native access table. Thanks for the assistance Function AllocationFactors() Dim MyDb As Database, myds1 As Recordset Set MyDb = CurrentDb() Set myds1 = MyDb.OpenRecordset("tbl Wells to Allocate", dbOpenTable) Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Sep 19 09:07:20 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:07:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Question In-Reply-To: <001701c5bd1e$f6420ec0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0IN200DIAHVZ8T@l-daemon> Hi Shamil: I would suspect that Google uses an advanced custom designed OLAP database engine where virtually ever field is indexed and weighted. I understand that their databases reside on Linux boxes. A free (trial?) small version of the Google engine/service can be acquired at https://services.google.com/cobrand/free_trial HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 6:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 Does Google use mySQL? Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Question > On 19 Sep 2005 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > Here is a query, which selects rows 49,50 from Customers table assuming that > > CustomerID is used for rows ordering: > > > .... > > > > Does anybody knows/heard/... do Google and other search engines use similar > > simple queries > > Repeat of my posting to this list on 7 May 2005: > > On 6 May 2005 at 10:43, Joe Rojas wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > > How do sites like eBay show only X number of items at a time and allow users to jump to a page number or click next? > > > > Is there a SQL statement that allows you to select the 2nd > > (3rd,4th,5th,...)set of X number of records in a database? > > > > If they are using MySQL they will be using the LIMIT command > > > The LIMIT clause can be used to constrain the number of rows returned by > the SELECT statement. LIMIT takes one or two numeric arguments, which must > be integer constants. > > With two arguments, the first argument specifies the offset of the first > row to return, and the second specifies the maximum number of rows to > return. The offset of the initial row is 0 (not 1): > > mysql> SELECT * FROM table LIMIT 5,10; # Retrieve rows 6-15 > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 19 14:09:02 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:09:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef Message-ID: <20050919190902.44697.qmail@web81505.mail.yahoo.com> I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? Thanks, Jeremy Toves ************************************* Sub PullRecords() Dim rs As Recordset Dim cn As Connection Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer strCn = "ODBC; " _ & "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ & "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ & "DBQ=tns_name; " _ & "UID=username; " _ & "PWD=password;" strSQL = "SELECT " _ & "TableName.* " _ & "FROM " _ & "TableName " _ & "WHERE " _ & "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) & ";" Set cn = New Connection cn.ConnectionString = strCn cn.Open Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) ========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== Next rs.Close cn.Close End Sub From accma at sympatico.ca Mon Sep 19 14:53:02 2005 From: accma at sympatico.ca (accma at sympatico.ca) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:53:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Message-ID: <20050919200148.OOTK2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 19 15:08:04 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:08:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Message-ID: I have Access 97 (Jet 3.51), Access 2000 and Access 2002 (both Jet 4.0) and Visual Studio.Net (also Jet 4.0) on two different machines and have had no problems. Was there something in particular you were worried about? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accma at sympatico.ca [mailto:accma at sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 19 15:09:49 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 13:09:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef Message-ID: I don't know exactly what it is you want to do, but here is an example of how to create a table using ADOX. Public Function CreateTableADO() Dim tbl As ADOX.Table Dim cat As ADOX.Catalog ' Open the Catalog. Set cat = New ADOX.Catalog cat.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set tbl = New ADOX.Table With tbl .Name = "MyTable" .Columns.Append "Column1", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column2", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column3", adVarWChar, 50 End With cat.Tables.Append tbl Set tbl = Nothing Set cat = Nothing End Function Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Toves [mailto:itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:09 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? Thanks, Jeremy Toves ************************************* Sub PullRecords() Dim rs As Recordset Dim cn As Connection Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer strCn = "ODBC; " _ & "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ & "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ & "DBQ=tns_name; " _ & "UID=username; " _ & "PWD=password;" strSQL = "SELECT " _ & "TableName.* " _ & "FROM " _ & "TableName " _ & "WHERE " _ & "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) & ";" Set cn = New Connection cn.ConnectionString = strCn cn.Open Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) ========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== Next rs.Close cn.Close End Sub -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Mon Sep 19 16:29:07 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050919212907.53405.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks! I'll try that. Jeremy Charlotte Foust wrote: I don't know exactly what it is you want to do, but here is an example of how to create a table using ADOX. Public Function CreateTableADO() Dim tbl As ADOX.Table Dim cat As ADOX.Catalog ' Open the Catalog. Set cat = New ADOX.Catalog cat.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set tbl = New ADOX.Table With tbl .Name = "MyTable" .Columns.Append "Column1", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column2", adInteger .Columns.Append "Column3", adVarWChar, 50 End With cat.Tables.Append tbl Set tbl = Nothing Set cat = Nothing End Function Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Toves [mailto:itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:09 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? Thanks, Jeremy Toves ************************************* Sub PullRecords() Dim rs As Recordset Dim cn As Connection Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer strCn = "ODBC; " _ & "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ & "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ & "DBQ=tns_name; " _ & "UID=username; " _ & "PWD=password;" strSQL = "SELECT " _ & "TableName.* " _ & "FROM " _ & "TableName " _ & "WHERE " _ & "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) & ";" Set cn = New Connection cn.ConnectionString = strCn cn.Open Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) ========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== Next rs.Close cn.Close End Sub -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Sep 19 17:23:10 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:23:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef References: <20050919212907.53405.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <432F3A4E.3030403@shaw.ca> If you download the Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC) 2.8 Software Development Kit SDK or the 2.6 one http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=5067faf8-0db4-429a-b502-de4329c8c850&DisplayLang=en It should contain this ms ado help file "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Data Access SDK\Docs\ado260.chm" Boatloads of sample vb code to do most of this in the help file. or try here , you might want to sign up for rod stephens news letter too. http://www.vb-helper.com/index_database.html#ado Jeremy Toves wrote: >Thanks! I'll try that. > >Jeremy > > > >Charlotte Foust wrote: >I don't know exactly what it is you want to do, but here is an example >of how to create a table using ADOX. > >Public Function CreateTableADO() >Dim tbl As ADOX.Table >Dim cat As ADOX.Catalog > >' Open the Catalog. >Set cat = New ADOX.Catalog >cat.ActiveConnection = CurrentProject.Connection >Set tbl = New ADOX.Table >With tbl >.Name = "MyTable" >.Columns.Append "Column1", adInteger >.Columns.Append "Column2", adInteger >.Columns.Append "Column3", adVarWChar, 50 >End With >cat.Tables.Append tbl >Set tbl = Nothing >Set cat = Nothing >End Function > >Charlotte Foust > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeremy Toves [mailto:itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net] >Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:09 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] ADO Create TableDef > > >I've worked with DAO for so long, I'm finally taking the plunge into >ADO. I have a database that pulls up records I need from an Oracle >database. No issues there. What I want to do now is make a dynamic >output table to push all my results to. I may be going about this the >wrong way. Does anybody have suggestions? > >Thanks, >Jeremy Toves > > > >************************************* > > >Sub PullRecords() >Dim rs As Recordset >Dim cn As Connection >Dim strCn As String, strSQL As String >Dim intX As Integer, intFieldCnt As Integer > >strCn = "ODBC; " _ >& "Provider=MSDASQL.1; " _ >& "Driver=Oracle ODBC Driver; " _ >& "DBQ=tns_name; " _ >& "UID=username; " _ >& "PWD=password;" > >strSQL = "SELECT " _ >& "TableName.* " _ >& "FROM " _ >& "TableName " _ >& "WHERE " _ >& "TableName.Fieldname Like " & Chr(39) & "1234%" & Chr(39) >& ";" > >Set cn = New Connection >cn.ConnectionString = strCn >cn.Open >Debug.Print cn.ConnectionString >Set rs = cn.Execute(strSQL) > >intFieldCnt = rs.Fields.Count > >For intX = 0 To intFieldCnt - 1 >Debug.Print rs.Fields(intX).Name & ": " & rs(intX) > >========>> I want to create a table based on the columns I pull >here. I'd like it to be dynamic allowing me to reuse the same process >to output the result of different source tables. Ideas? <<======== > >Next > >rs.Close >cn.Close >End Sub > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 19 19:08:35 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:08:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Message-ID: I have Access 97 (Jet 3.51), Access 2000 and Access 2002 (both Jet 4.0) and Visual Studio.Net (also Jet 4.0) on two different machines and have had no problems. Was there something in particular you were worried about? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accma at sympatico.ca [mailto:accma at sympatico.ca] Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 12:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Sat Sep 17 10:52:29 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2005 11:52:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] I need help In-Reply-To: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> References: <000201c5bb1a$f2a79560$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: On 16/09/05, John W. Colby wrote: > I need some help, setting up a web site, email accounts and a database > behind the web site. This stuff will be used to assist Rabbi Gellman in > implementing an idea he has for assisting Katrina victims. John, Even though I replied to you off-list, I'll offer whatever help I can. If you are using a Linux server to set this up on, I'd be more than happy to help. If you are setting this up on a MS server, I'll be more than happy to give what help I can, but I don't have any experience with MS servers. I can also do web coding. Web Design is a bit of a stretch for me, but taking the design and turning it into clean code, I can do. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From david.powell at kcl.ac.uk Tue Sep 20 03:11:01 2005 From: david.powell at kcl.ac.uk (david Powell) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:11:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 In-Reply-To: <20050919200148.OOTK2134.tomts48-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.82]> Message-ID: <200509200811.j8K8BKT13413@databaseadvisors.com> As long as the various versions of Access are installed in historical order it should be OK. David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of accma at sympatico.ca Sent: 19 September 2005 20:53 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Jet engine 3.51 and 4.0 Hi, Does anyone know if it's safe to have version 3.51 and 4.0 of microfost jet engine on the same computer. I have a few computer with that configuration and I'm worried about incompatibility problems. Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Tue Sep 20 07:21:55 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. When this form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. Basically they will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. They may then be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. Thanks in advance John W Clark From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Tue Sep 20 07:44:13 2005 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:44:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: Is the Data Entry property of the form set to "Yes" Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:22 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem > > I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. > When this > form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. > Basically they > will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. > They may then > be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be > judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a > judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they > enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they > probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the > other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. > > I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. > > Thanks in advance > > John W Clark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cyx5 at cdc.gov Tue Sep 20 08:46:01 2005 From: cyx5 at cdc.gov (Nicholson, Karen) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:46:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: open form acadd or something like that? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Is the Data Entry property of the form set to "Yes" Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Clark > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 8:22 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem > > I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. > When this > form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. > Basically they > will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. > They may then > be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be > judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a > judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they > enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they > probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the > other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. > > I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. > > Thanks in advance > > John W Clark > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 20 09:29:35 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (bchacc at san.rr.com) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:29:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: <380-220059220142935519@M2W079.mail2web.com> John: DoCmd.GoToRecord ,,acNewRec in the FormOpen event followed by cmdNewName.SetFocus? Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: John Clark John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. When this form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. Basically they will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. They may then be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. Thanks in advance John W Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 20 09:29:45 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (bchacc at san.rr.com) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:29:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem Message-ID: <380-22005922014294536@M2W060.mail2web.com> John: DoCmd.GoToRecord ,,acNewRec in the FormOpen event followed by cmdNewName.SetFocus? Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: John Clark John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:55 -0400 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access 101 problem I am trying to make an entry form that just accepts new data. When this form opens up, I don't want to see any of the other data. Basically they will be clicking an "Enter new name" option on the menu. They may then be taken to another form, depending on what they enter. Names can be judges, attorneys, victims, or defendants, and if they are adding a judge or attorney, the form will just return to the menu, but if they enter a defendant, it will continue into an indictment screen...they probably won't use this form for victims, yet it will come from the other end (i.e. the indictment form) in that case. I thought I had this one but, for some reason it isn't workin'. Thanks in advance John W Clark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Sep 20 09:47:40 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:47:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Message-ID: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Sep 20 09:52:32 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:52:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question References: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <000f01c5bdf2$ee4ee3d0$9111758f@aine> Impact Printer? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question > Hi gang! > > > > I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. > The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The > Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving > gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering > if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around > this issue. > > > > The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each > print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was > just > wondering if anyone had a better solution. > > > > Doris Manning > > mikedorism at verizon.net > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 20 09:54:56 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:54:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <004401c5bdf3$43d4cf90$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> You can print to a dot matrix printer (physical impact printer) and they just continue to use their existing form. You set up the report to line up with the existing places on the physical form. This is a valid option. Or you could set up a form with a watermark that prints the info of who gets that copy printed in the watermark, perhaps even in different color inks. To do this you might need a different report for each property (to get the watermark) or you might be able to load the watermark as the report opens. Not sure on that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:48 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Tue Sep 20 09:57:06 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:57:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: Doris, Might be thinking wrongly here, but if they are using multi-part forms then surely everything that's gets printed will be copied onto every sheet, so couldn't you do a footer with the appropriate text in something like: Gold to Originator - White to Accounting - Yellow to Receiving - Pink to Purchasing Then this text would get transferred to every copy Paul -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: 20 September 2005 15:48 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 20 10:02:30 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:02:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <004401c5bdf3$43d4cf90$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050920150231.IHOD22439.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, I'm wondering -- if there's no longer any color or any other designation to separate the four copies, who cares who gets which copy? Did you need this color business at all? One copy to each of the following: blah, blah... At the bottom. Better yet, do you even need that? Do they know who gets copies? Dare you suggest distributing forms (reports) via email and dispensing with the whole matter all together? Susan H. You can print to a dot matrix printer (physical impact printer) and they just continue to use their existing form. You set up the report to line up with the existing places on the physical form. This is a valid option. Or you could set up a form with a watermark that prints the info of who gets that copy printed in the watermark, perhaps even in different color inks. To do this you might need a different report for each property (to get the watermark) or you might be able to load the watermark as the report opens. Not sure on that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:48 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 20 10:53:30 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:53:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <24027451.1127227893315.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000001c5bdfb$7308e190$0200a8c0@danwaters> Hi Doris! Don't print at all! Have your system automatically send an email to each person with the subject line, "Purchase Order XX Ready For Review". Now each person can go into the database, read the info and take action, or print the report if they must. The color system of multi-part forms was done to ensure that everyone did get the information they needed. They really didn't need the paper - they just need the information. If someone had simply copied the original form and then made sure that each person got what they needed, that would have worked too, but the colored multi-part form is a more certain way. Or, if they absolutely have to have a copy sent to them, you can send an email with a snapshot formatted copy of the purchase order report attached. (Look up SendObject in Help.) If the receivers don't have Access, they can download a free viewer from MS. Best of Luck! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 9:48 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question Hi gang! I have received a request to build a Purchase Order System for a client. The client currently uses a multi-part form for distribution. The Originator keeps the gold copy, Accounting gets the white copy, Receiving gets the yellow copy, and Purchasing keeps the pink copy. I was wondering if anybody had any words of wisdom I could offer the client to get around this issue. The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just wondering if anyone had a better solution. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 20 11:10:15 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:10:15 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi John (and Ervin) That's right! A line describes the line above: how many of first digit, how many of next different digit, etc. To me, this would mean that the first line should be 0 ... Re 1. It contains an error as it was localized. That's a hint. In English the values are: - Jan is 55 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 However, it is possible to create a formula building the original values from a mix of month values, quarter values and half-year values - should you wonder. Re 3. It is completely numeric, no funny tricks as in 1. As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do the dirty work: U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to satisfy the formula: UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 16-09-2005 19:20 >>> 2 = 13112221 correct? I think I did one similar to this years back. If so, it would then be followed by 1113213211 John W. Clark >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 9/16/2005 11:22 AM >>> Hi all Quiet Friday? Forget about a relaxing weekend. These three tasks will keep you busy! 1. How much is September if: - Jan is 45 - Apr is 35 - Oct is 50 - Nov is 55 2. What is the next number in this system: 1 11 21 1211 111221 312211 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 20 11:18:34 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:18:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050920161835.HNFC15611.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do the dirty work: U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to satisfy the formula: UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU ========Gustav, um... I prefer chocolate. :) In no lifetime will I ever think of math as a bonus. :) Susan H. From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Tue Sep 20 11:44:48 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:44:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: Hi Doris, We built a PO System for a client and made different text appear on each copy, using the visible property. It works well, but is a little awkward. The one thing that was kind of neat about the system is that they could look up an old purchase order and then hit a button to duplicate, incrememting the PO number by one to create a new po that looked exactly like the old one. All they had to do was then edit the line items if they wanted to . These people ordered a lot of the same items each month from the same supplier. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 20 12:13:18 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:13:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan I prefer chocolate too, but if you eat too much you get fat. That won't happen eating creamy math exercises for fun! /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 20-09-2005 18:18 >>> As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do the dirty work: U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to satisfy the formula: UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU ========Gustav, um... I prefer chocolate. :) In no lifetime will I ever think of math as a bonus. :) Susan H. From hoopesg at hotmail.com Tue Sep 20 12:14:25 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:14:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box Message-ID: Hi, all. I've got a problem that I can't sort out by myself. I have a database being used by a data entry clerk. She needs to see a list of information by department number. I created a simple form with an unbound combo box where she selects the department she wishes to view. She can then do several things based on that selection - view it for printing, export it to Excel, or open a form with that department ID as the form's criteria. Here's the rub -- when she views the list on a form, I'd like to give her the ability to change departments on the fly. So if she's looking at a form filtered for DeptID 104735, she could use a combo box populated with all of the department numbers to change the recordsource for her form's data. The combo box value on the orignal form where she picks the department number provides criteria for the query on which the second form is based. I think perhaps if I could set it up so that the second form's recordsource was set directly from her choice on the first form rather than a query it would be easier for her to change it but I'm having trouble doing that. If this makes sense, has anyone got any good ideas for me? Thanks! Gina From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Sep 20 14:37:25 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:37:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record Message-ID: OK, I've worn myself out... I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale (let's call them details). I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and within that one new record there should be three of those details. If there is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two details on this record. If there are two details, I will write two details to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. Original tables tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every sale record ID------------------ fkSales Sale# ParcelNum I need this in the new table tblSalesExport ID Sale# Parcel1 Parcel2 Parcel3 However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. Can anyone help? And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of Indiana has come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only wants to see three of them. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Sep 20 14:59:23 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:59:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c5be1d$ccd11270$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> I had a similar need. What I did is to use the same recordsource for both drop downs. In the Form Current event of the second form, I set the department dropdown's initial value to the value from the first form and then requeried the second form. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Sep 20 15:01:21 2005 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:01:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c5be1e$137777a0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Can you post the code you are currently trying to use? A fresh set of eyes might spot the exit loop problem you are having. Doris Manning mikedorism at verizon.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record OK, I've worn myself out... I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale (let's call them details). I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and within that one new record there should be three of those details. If there is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two details on this record. If there are two details, I will write two details to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. Original tables tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every sale record ID------------------ fkSales Sale# ParcelNum I need this in the new table tblSalesExport ID Sale# Parcel1 Parcel2 Parcel3 However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. Can anyone help? And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of Indiana has come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only wants to see three of them. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 20 15:00:45 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 16:00:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C8C70C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFC0@ADGSERVER> You could do it via vba and a recordset, Something like: 'warning - air code 'assuming that your logical key - name, ssn, etc is in LogKey strKey="" Do while not rs.eof 'reset our count and test key if rs!LogKey<>strkey then i=1 strkey=rs!LogKey else i=i+1 end if 'if have less than 3 of a given record, process it 'if more than 3rd record, then it will be skipped if i<=3 then select case I case 1: 'write 1st part case 2: 'write 2nd part case 3: 'write 3rd part end select endif 'get next record rs.movenext loop Hope that I understood your issue correctly. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record OK, I've worn myself out... I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale (let's call them details). I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and within that one new record there should be three of those details. If there is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two details on this record. If there are two details, I will write two details to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. Original tables tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every sale record ID------------------ fkSales Sale# ParcelNum I need this in the new table tblSalesExport ID Sale# Parcel1 Parcel2 Parcel3 However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. Can anyone help? And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of Indiana has come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only wants to see three of them. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Sep 20 15:16:33 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:16:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <000101c5be1e$137777a0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: I've eliminated it and started over. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris > Manning > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:01 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > > Can you post the code you are currently trying to use? A fresh > set of eyes > might spot the exit loop problem you are having. > > Doris Manning > mikedorism at verizon.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:37 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > OK, I've worn myself out... > > I have a table that may have any number of records related to one sale > (let's call them details). > > I need to create another table that holds ONE record for each sale and > within that one new record there should be three of those > details. If there > is only one detail in the child table I need to write it to the new table > and then write zeros (0) to the fields as space holders for the other two > details on this record. If there are two details, I will write > two details > to the new table and zeros for the one missing record. > > Original tables > tblSales(1) tblDetails(many) Several ParcelNum's for every > sale record > ID------------------ fkSales > Sale# ParcelNum > > I need this in the new table > tblSalesExport > ID > Sale# > Parcel1 > Parcel2 > Parcel3 > > However, my trouble comes from trying to stop at only three details. I > can't get out of the damn loop at the right time. > > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > > Can anyone help? > > And please don't suggest table structure changes. The State of > Indiana has > come up with this brilliant reporting system without regard for the actual > data. Even if there are 46 parcels in one sale the state only > wants to see > three of them. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 20 16:43:03 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:43:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdfb$7308e190$0200a8c0@danwaters> References: <24027451.1127227893315.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <43310F07.27523.8A49F27@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Sep 2005 at 10:53, Dan Waters wrote: > The color system of multi-part forms was done to ensure that everyone did > get the information they needed. They really didn't need the paper - they > just need the information. Try telling that to bean counters who insist on a physical copy for the stores clerk to check and sign off against the physical delivery at the receiving point, a copy for the accounts clerk to use and sign off when the PO in entered into the accounting system, a copy attached to to the Invoice when the the cheque is signed etc -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 20 16:43:03 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:43:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Purchase Order System Question In-Reply-To: <000001c5bdf2$41431da0$2e01a8c0@dorismanning> Message-ID: <43310F07.16933.8A49F75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Sep 2005 at 10:47, Mike & Doris Manning wrote: > > The only thing I can think of is to print the PO four times and have each > print state the "Distribute To" info somewhere on the printout. I was just > wondering if anyone had a better solution. > I have one client that I built a PO system for which has done away with paper completely. It uses emails to send the orders and to keep everyone informed of the status of orders. (But there is an option to print out a single suppliers hard copy of the order if necessary). I have another client who still needed the paper trail but who wanted to just print the orders on a plain paper printer. For them I have a table (tblPOCopies) with a single text field (CopyNumber) and four rows: "1.White - Original to Supplier", "2,Pink - File Copy" etc. I include this table in the Purchase Order query (no join conditions so you get a Cartesian product). I group the order report by OrderNumber, CopyNumber and have the CopyNumber footer throw a pagebreak after the section. . Then I put the CopyNumber field in the pagefooter. Voila - four copies, each with a different different page footer containing the distribution info. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Sep 20 17:20:34 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:20:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <433117D2.25564.8C6F7C1@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Sale# ParcelNum > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double precision number. > I need this in the new table ... > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) While not rs.eof Select case rs!NoOfSales Case 1 'write record using an SQL Insert ' write two blank records Case 2 'write records using an SQL Insert ' write one blank record Case > 2 'write records using an SQL Insert End Select rs.movenext Wend In the first two cases, use an "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." in the third case use "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." -- Stuart From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Sep 20 23:17:18 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:17:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921161452.0319cd60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Access 97 DAO I am creating a table using DAO. How do I create an autonumber field? My current line is: Set fld = tbldef.CreateField("NetExpAllowanceID", dbLong) This of course only creates a number datatype. I can't see in the help the constant for an autonumber data type. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 999 Moonshine Rd, RD 1 Judgeford, Porirua New Zealand 6006 Phone 0064 4 235-6782 Fax 0064 4 235-6783 From pcs at azizaz.com Tue Sep 20 23:34:15 2005 From: pcs at azizaz.com (Borge Hansen) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:34:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921161452.0319cd60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <005901c5be65$b94728f0$fa10a8c0@Albatross> David, Here is the pointer to MS's suggestion for how to do it in Access97 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q113546/ regards borge goldcoast, australia (back again after dropping off the list in may due to travel) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Emerson" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:17 PM Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field > Access 97 DAO > > I am creating a table using DAO. How do I create an autonumber > field? My current line is: > > Set fld = tbldef.CreateField("NetExpAllowanceID", dbLong) > > This of course only creates a number datatype. I can't see in the > help the constant for an autonumber data type. > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > 999 Moonshine Rd, RD 1 > Judgeford, Porirua > New Zealand 6006 > Phone 0064 4 235-6782 > Fax 0064 4 235-6783 > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Sep 20 23:52:48 2005 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:52:48 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field In-Reply-To: <005901c5be65$b94728f0$fa10a8c0@Albatross> References: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921161452.0319cd60@mail.dalyn.co.nz> <005901c5be65$b94728f0$fa10a8c0@Albatross> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20050921165224.0319aeb0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Excellent - Thanks. At 21/09/2005, you wrote: >David, >Here is the pointer to MS's suggestion for how to do it in Access97 >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q113546/ > >regards >borge >goldcoast, australia >(back again after dropping off the list in may due to travel) > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Emerson" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:17 PM >Subject: [AccessD] Create Table Autonumber Field > > > > Access 97 DAO > > > > I am creating a table using DAO. How do I create an autonumber > > field? My current line is: > > > > Set fld = tbldef.CreateField("NetExpAllowanceID", dbLong) > > > > This of course only creates a number datatype. I can't see in the > > help the constant for an autonumber data type. > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > 999 Moonshine Rd, RD 1 > > Judgeford, Porirua > > New Zealand 6006 > > Phone 0064 4 235-6782 > > Fax 0064 4 235-6783 From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Sep 21 00:12:45 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:42:45 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box References: Message-ID: <010e01c5be6b$398d3220$f01865cb@winxp> Gina, Manipulation of form's Filter property should prove convenient in your case. This involves a pair of statements similar to the following. (a) For code within the form Me.Filter = "" Me.FilterOn = True (b) For code in a different form Forms("").Filter = "" Forms("").FilterOn = True (Filtered results get displayed very promptly and there is no need for performing any requery) It has to be kept in view that any filter applied at run time works in tandem with the filter (if any) built into the record source. It becomes filter on filter. It would therefore be necessary to keep the record source free of any filtering pertaining to field/fields of interest. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Gina Hoopes To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 22:44 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box Hi, all. I've got a problem that I can't sort out by myself. I have a database being used by a data entry clerk. She needs to see a list of information by department number. I created a simple form with an unbound combo box where she selects the department she wishes to view. She can then do several things based on that selection - view it for printing, export it to Excel, or open a form with that department ID as the form's criteria. Here's the rub -- when she views the list on a form, I'd like to give her the ability to change departments on the fly. So if she's looking at a form filtered for DeptID 104735, she could use a combo box populated with all of the department numbers to change the recordsource for her form's data. The combo box value on the orignal form where she picks the department number provides criteria for the query on which the second form is based. I think perhaps if I could set it up so that the second form's recordsource was set directly from her choice on the first form rather than a query it would be easier for her to change it but I'm having trouble doing that. If this makes sense, has anyone got any good ideas for me? Thanks! Gina From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Sep 21 03:08:20 2005 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 04:08:20 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: <193.4891138e.30626ef4@aol.com> Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 21 06:17:38 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 04:17:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <193.4891138e.30626ef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <0IN500D07ZD1F4@l-daemon> Hi John: Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of use but does give an indication of current program interest. http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are still many legacy applications out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Wed Sep 21 06:27:13 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:27:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <0IN500D07ZD1F4@l-daemon> Message-ID: I would imagine that there would be a market for FoxPro skills as it's included in Visual Studio (version 6), along with Visual Basic, InterDev and C++ Paul Hartland Database Developer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 21 September 2005 12:18 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi John: Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of use but does give an indication of current program interest. http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are still many legacy applications out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Sep 21 06:55:04 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:55:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <0IN500D07ZD1F4@l-daemon> References: <193.4891138e.30626ef4@aol.com> Message-ID: <4331D6B8.5254.BB09A14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 21 Sep 2005 at 4:17, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on > various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of > use but does give an indication of current program interest. > > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > > At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are > still many legacy applications out there. > I'd be dubious about any list that monitors dBase, Clarion, Clipper, MUMPS, PowerBuilder, Progress and Visual FoxPro but not Access. They are all Database Application Development Systems rather than languages and I'd suspect that there are more Access applications around than several of the others combined. -- Stuart From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 21 07:34:07 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 05:34:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: <4331D6B8.5254.BB09A14@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0IN600I8H2WLE8@l-daemon> Good point Stuart... They have also disregarded ASP and similar languages as just HTML/XML/SQL/CSS environments which they do not consider languages but just support products for other languages like JavaScript.(?) It is also doubtful that they monitor groups, like Python, Oracle and especially Access user-groups which are islands of hard-core users. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 On 21 Sep 2005 at 4:17, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on > various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of > use but does give an indication of current program interest. > > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm > > At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are > still many legacy applications out there. > I'd be dubious about any list that monitors dBase, Clarion, Clipper, MUMPS, PowerBuilder, Progress and Visual FoxPro but not Access. They are all Database Application Development Systems rather than languages and I'd suspect that there are more Access applications around than several of the others combined. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at outbaktech.com Wed Sep 21 07:42:28 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 07:42:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: Hello group! I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to share is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Sep 21 07:57:17 2005 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:57:17 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: <12e.66b7c7e0.3062b2ad@aol.com> Hi Jeff Have a look at _http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/_ (http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/) I've used their material many times it get boring but its easy to use althought not cheap to buy. johnc From word_diva at hotmail.com Wed Sep 21 08:28:28 2005 From: word_diva at hotmail.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:28:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) References: Message-ID: I have done a little Access training, basically explaining the difference between Access and Excel and when to use each one. The training was very informal with a group of paralegals. I'm not sure if I could find the materials I used but I will certainly look. And my advice would be to keep it simple, very simple. I'd be happy to discuss further, off line if you want. Nancy nlytle at mdon-line.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:42 AM Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) > Hello group! > > I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. > As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has > done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing > to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. > > I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to > share is greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Jeff Barrows > MCP, MCAD, MCSD > > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > jeff at outbaktech.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JHewson at karta.com Wed Sep 21 08:32:37 2005 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:32:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C036B71DE@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I've used the materials from this company. http://www.customguide.com/access_training/access_training.htm We have a contact in our area that bought the entire suite of instructional books. For a small fee per book, I received student books, instructor book, quick reference guides and a CD with the student exercise files. I conducted a two-day class with 20 students, well worth the price. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Hi Jeff Have a look at _http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/_ (http://www.trainingwarehouse.co.uk/acatalog/) I've used their material many times it get boring but its easy to use althought not cheap to buy. johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 08:37:09 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:37:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050921133709.FHSG11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've done a little, but I have few training materials because each group is unique in its needs. If they're truly beginners, you might suggest that they get a Dummies level book -- Mike G. and I wrote one for Que in the Absolute Beginner's Guide series. But if the employer doesn't give them the time to read and work on the job, that doesn't do much good -- but if they can it's a great way to prepare them. I usually send out a questionnaire to determine the group's core level. You can't show intermediate types how to use wizards -- know what I mean? Susan H. > Hello group! > > I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. > As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has > done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing > to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. > > I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to > share is greatly appreciated. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Sep 21 08:46:34 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: 21 Sep 2005 13:46:34 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) In-Reply-To: <20050921133709.FHSG11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20050921133709.FHSG11623.ibm71aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Email me of list and I will send you something we use. Martin On Sep 21 2005, Susan Harkins wrote: > I've done a little, but I have few training materials because each group > is unique in its needs. If they're truly beginners, you might suggest > that they get a Dummies level book -- Mike G. and I wrote one for Que in > the Absolute Beginner's Guide series. But if the employer doesn't give > them the time to read and work on the job, that doesn't do much good -- > but if they can it's a great way to prepare them. > > I usually send out a questionnaire to determine the group's core level. > You can't show intermediate types how to use wizards -- know what I mean? > > Susan H. > > > > Hello group! > > > > I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access > > training. > > > As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has > > done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be > > willing > > > to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to > > share. > > > > I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to > > share is greatly appreciated. > > -- Martin WP Reid Analyst Information Services Queens University Belfast From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 21 09:28:07 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 10:28:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C8C733@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFCA@ADGSERVER> I thought that he was wanting to combine the 1st three related records into one record as in: Rec 1 AAAAAAA 45.00 Rec 2 AAAAAAA 67.87 Rec 3 AAAAAAA 23.23 Rec 4 AAAAAAA 128.93 Into a new table such as: AAAAAAA 45.00 67.87 23.23 Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Sale# ParcelNum > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double precision number. > I need this in the new table ... > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) While not rs.eof Select case rs!NoOfSales Case 1 'write record using an SQL Insert ' write two blank records Case 2 'write records using an SQL Insert ' write one blank record Case > 2 'write records using an SQL Insert End Select rs.movenext Wend In the first two cases, use an "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." in the third case use "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Wed Sep 21 09:48:43 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 09:48:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFCA@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: I am, Bobby. I'm using Bobby's code as a base to start and I'm getting pretty close now. However, I have to go help 1st graders (my son's class) in the computer lab today so this project gets to wait. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid > Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 9:28 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > > I thought that he was wanting to combine the 1st three related > records into > one record as in: > > Rec 1 AAAAAAA 45.00 > Rec 2 AAAAAAA 67.87 > Rec 3 AAAAAAA 23.23 > Rec 4 AAAAAAA 128.93 > > Into a new table such as: > > AAAAAAA 45.00 67.87 23.23 > > Bobby > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record > > > On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > > > Sale# ParcelNum > > > > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA > thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double > precision number. > > > I need this in the new table > ... > > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to > one row of a > > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be > three even if > > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > > > > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as > NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) > > While not rs.eof > Select case rs!NoOfSales > Case 1 > 'write record using an SQL Insert > ' write two blank records > Case 2 > 'write records using an SQL Insert > ' write one blank record > Case > 2 > 'write records using an SQL Insert > End Select > rs.movenext > Wend > > In the first two cases, use an > "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." > in the third case use > "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." > > > -- > Stuart > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 21 10:02:08 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:02:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Message-ID: For heavens sake, start with an explanation of relational design! The O'Reilly book, Access Database Design & Programming, is a good resource for that in simple form. Teaching anyone how to "use" Access without a basic knowledge of relational concepts is counterproductive. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Barrows [mailto:Jeff at outbaktech.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:42 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) Hello group! I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to share is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 21 10:03:37 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:03:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: It is no longer included in Visual Studio after VS6, though. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Paul Hartland (ISHARP) [mailto:paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 I would imagine that there would be a market for FoxPro skills as it's included in Visual Studio (version 6), along with Visual Basic, InterDev and C++ Paul Hartland Database Developer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 21 September 2005 12:18 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi John: Here is a list compiled by a company that monitors internet traffic on various programming languages. It may not be accurate in it's' assessment of use but does give an indication of current program interest. http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm At one time FoxBase/FoxPro was the database language of choice so there are still many legacy applications out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 21 10:09:49 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:09:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Several records into one record In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C8C733@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABEFCB@ADGSERVER> Stuart, Does Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on .... return a field NoOfSales that acts as a counter for each record returned? As in: NoOfSales Key Amt 1 AAAAAAA 45.00 2 AAAAAAA 67.87 3 AAAAAAA 23.23 4 AAAAAAA 128.93 1 BBBBBBB 9.99 1 CCCCCCC 4.44 2 CCCCCCC 0.00 Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Several records into one record On 20 Sep 2005 at 14:37, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Sale# ParcelNum > As an aside, I'ts a good idea to avoid the "#" sign in fieldnames, VBA thinks that a trailing # is a type declaration character for a double precision number. > I need this in the new table ... > Basically, I need to take multiple records and write them to one row of a > new table - but only three of them max. And there has to be three even if > there are only 1 or 2 details of original data. > Set rs = currentdb.openrecordset ("Select Distinct SaleNum, count(*) as NoOfSales from tblSales Inner Join tblDetails on ...." ) While not rs.eof Select case rs!NoOfSales Case 1 'write record using an SQL Insert ' write two blank records Case 2 'write records using an SQL Insert ' write one blank record Case > 2 'write records using an SQL Insert End Select rs.movenext Wend In the first two cases, use an "Insert into tblNewTable (Select SaleNum, ......." in the third case use "Insert into tblNewTable (Select TOP 3 Salenum, ...." -- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 21 10:09:59 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 08:09:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: FoxPro has been around for a very long time. It started out as a dBase clone but is based on the Rushmore database engine, which is much faster than Jet, and which is the reason Microsoft bought it in the first place. There are a lot of older apps out there that were originally written in FoxPro for the speed and then were maintained over the years rather than being rewritten in something else. Visual FoxPro eventually became the product it was supposed to be (the early Visual versions were simply a UI designer over a command line editor), but it seems to be as much a stepchild now as Access is becoming. It is no longer in Visual Studio and I haven't heard whether there are any plans to make it .Net compliant. I know Access won't be, at least not if you can believe Microsoft. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Johncliviger at aol.com [mailto:Johncliviger at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 21 11:23:38 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:23:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Sep 21 11:38:35 2005 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:38:35 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Message-ID: <54.4cf5562f.3062e68b@aol.com> In a message dated 21/09/2005 16:14:17 GMT Daylight Time, cfoust at infostatsystems.com writes: Charlotte Hi Charlotte Thanks for the comments on Foxpro. Its been very helpful regards johnc From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 21 11:53:53 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:53:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509211653.j8LGrxT09718@databaseadvisors.com> I wonder if you've got enough data in the Wells_Active table. I'm thinking that a well has both a DateActivated and a DateTerminated column, but perhaps this is irrelevant to your needs. Assuming from your description that you care only about when the well was activated, flip the query around (of ease of comprehension). SELECT * FROM Wells_Active INNER JOIN Wells ON WellsActive.WellID = Wells.WellID WHERE Wells_Active.DateActivated < [Enter a date] If you have a DateTerminated column in addition (note the adroit avoidance of "as well"), then you want to compare against both dates. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 21 12:34:12 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:34:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: You are correct I only care about date activated. >From your response I don't think I made my question clear. In the Wells_Active table I have a column of dates and a column of wellnames. These start in March 1995 with a number of wells listed each month. The result I need is a list (date and wellname) of wells that are not active each month. I could probably do it by first building a list of all wells each month using a Cartesian sum query of dates and well names. I would then do an unmatched query using both wellname and date. Was just looking for a better way. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem I wonder if you've got enough data in the Wells_Active table. I'm thinking that a well has both a DateActivated and a DateTerminated column, but perhaps this is irrelevant to your needs. Assuming from your description that you care only about when the well was activated, flip the query around (of ease of comprehension). SELECT * FROM Wells_Active INNER JOIN Wells ON WellsActive.WellID = Wells.WellID WHERE Wells_Active.DateActivated < [Enter a date] If you have a DateTerminated column in addition (note the adroit avoidance of "as well"), then you want to compare against both dates. HTH, Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebairead at gmail.com Wed Sep 21 12:39:29 2005 From: ebairead at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eoin_C=2E_Bair=E9ad?=) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:39:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem In-Reply-To: <200509211653.j8LGrxT09718@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200509211653.j8LGrxT09718@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <3d2a5ccc050921103950b3249d@mail.gmail.com> You might have to write a little noddy which would loop through a query finding wells that were inactive on any date between two given dates. You could output wither to another table in the database, or (simpler!) to a CSV file that you then printed in a pretty Excel report. On 21/09/05, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > I wonder if you've got enough data in the Wells_Active table. I'm thinking > that a well has both a DateActivated and a DateTerminated column, but > perhaps this is irrelevant to your needs. Assuming from your description > that you care only about when the well was activated, flip the query > around > (of ease of comprehension). > SELECT * FROM Wells_Active INNER JOIN Wells ON WellsActive.WellID = > Wells.WellID > WHERE Wells_Active.DateActivated < [Enter a date] > If you have a DateTerminated column in addition (note the adroit avoidance > of "as well"), then you want to compare against both dates. > > HTH, > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem > > I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well > numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells > that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not > care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks > > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 > > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- -- Eoin C. Bair?ad Dublin, Ireland ?th Cliath, ?ire From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 21 13:35:42 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 20:35:42 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: Hi Chester First create a query using a Cartesian (multiplying) join to list all possible wells and dates (which means where at least one well was active): SELECT A.WellNo, B.TestDate FROM tblWellDates AS A, tblWellDates AS B GROUP BY A.WellNo, B.TestDate; Save this as, say, qryAll. Then use this to find wells/dates missing: SELECT qryAll.WellNo, qryAll.TestDate FROM qryAll LEFT JOIN tblWellDates ON (qryAll.WellNo = tblWellDates.WellNo) AND (qryAll.TestDate = tblWellDates.TestDate) WHERE tblWellDates.WellNo Is Null; /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem > > I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well > numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells > that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not > care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Wed Sep 21 13:57:19 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:57:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 21 14:14:14 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:14:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi John That's correct! However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Wed Sep 21 14:16:10 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 14:16:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Message-ID: That worked great. Thanks once again to great list members. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem Hi Chester First create a query using a Cartesian (multiplying) join to list all possible wells and dates (which means where at least one well was active): SELECT A.WellNo, B.TestDate FROM tblWellDates AS A, tblWellDates AS B GROUP BY A.WellNo, B.TestDate; Save this as, say, qryAll. Then use this to find wells/dates missing: SELECT qryAll.WellNo, qryAll.TestDate FROM qryAll LEFT JOIN tblWellDates ON (qryAll.WellNo = tblWellDates.WellNo) AND (qryAll.TestDate = tblWellDates.TestDate) WHERE tblWellDates.WellNo Is Null; /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: September 21, 2005 12:24 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unmatched query problem > > I have one master table of well numbers. In another table I have well > numbers of wells that are active by date. I need to gat a list of wells > that are not active on each date. The unmatched query wizard does not > care about the date. How might I do this? Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 14:25:34 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:25:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050921192535.NGS24572.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... =======Excuse me???????????? Susan H. From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Sep 21 14:49:00 2005 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:49:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Basic Access Training (sort of OT?) References: Message-ID: <4331B92C.1040503@torchlake.com> Jeff, We are using the Thompson Course Technology ILT series as the tutorial books for our Access classes in the Extended Education Services at our college. I add some of my own handouts because relationship and normalization concepts aren't well covered until the second level course - and I think they are central to any understanding of Access. These books are not awfully expensive - we offer them to the students for $16 apiece. They come with a CD full of exercise databases, and walk the student through each step of each task. The summary for each unit has self-testing exercises as well. The newer editions also include an additional CD with an interactive tutorial program. HTH, Tina Jeff Barrows wrote: >Hello group! > >I was just asked if I would be willing to do some 'basic' Access training. As always, my first thought was to wonder if anyone on the list a) has done 'basic' training, b) has any training materials they might be willing to share, and c) has any suggestions or warnings they would like to share. > >I am kind of new to the training side of Access so anything you want to share is greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Jeff Barrows >MCP, MCAD, MCSD > >Outbak Technologies, LLC >Racine, WI >jeff at outbaktech.com > > From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 21 15:01:28 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 15:01:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: <26816467.1127330635346.JavaMail.root@sniper18> Message-ID: <000701c5bee7$4197fe10$0300a8c0@danwaters> Gustav, You need to go to www.brownies.com to see where you can buy the hard-won rewards! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi John That's correct! However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Wed Sep 21 15:23:08 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:23:08 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <005401c5beea$4b4c3f40$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Gustav, Here is how it should have been done to get a big tasty chocolate? <+++ - U can be 1 or 2; - U can't be 1 because it's on the right side in the result - something multiplied by 4 can't give 1. Therefore U = 2; - and Z = 8 (2 *4); - 2VXY8 * 4 = 8YXV2; - V can be only equal to 1 because multiplied by 4 it shouldn't be greater than 10. And 8 (2*4) is used already; - 21XY8 * 4 = 8YX12; - Then Y can be 7 only (7*4 = 28 + 3 (from 8*4 = 32) = 31); - 21X78 * 4 = 87X12; - X can be 9 only (7*4 = 28 + 3 = 31 => 3 from here + 9*4 = 36 => 36+3 = 39 => 3 + (4*1) = 7 ================= 21978 * 4 = 87912 ================= +++> Of course I don't deserve a chocolate now (:()) because I did know result in advance calculated by John in MS Excel. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi John > > That's correct! > However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... > > /gustav > > >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> > >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an > calculate > >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do > >the dirty work: > > >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to > >satisfy the formula: > > >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU > > >/gustav > > > 21978 > > 21978 * 4 = 87912 > > I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it > into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. > And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of > consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. > > If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm > getting fat enough already. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 15:21:49 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:21:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: <20050921202150.GPUH22439.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins From robert at servicexp.com Wed Sep 21 16:17:57 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 17:17:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F50@gbsserver.GBS.local> Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Sep 21 16:39:21 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 16:39:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337867@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> We are shut down until Monday and I will be hunkering down at home here 40 mi north of Galveston. I was in Alicia and Allison but this one looks worse by a factor of ten. See ya'll Monday (hopefully) Jim Hale *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 21 18:16:16 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 19:16:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F50@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: <20050921231618.DELF8241.ibm67aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 21 20:43:54 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:43:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337867@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: ..time for a quick trip to tica land? ...take care of your family, eh. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Accessd (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita > We are shut down until Monday and I will be hunkering down at home here 40 > mi north of Galveston. I was in Alicia and Allison but this one looks > worse > by a factor of ten. See ya'll Monday (hopefully) > Jim Hale > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:05:44 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:05:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan and Shamil Sorry Susan, nothing personal, but no chocolates for letting Excel do the dirty work. Remember I wrote that a pencil and paper is all that is needed? Study the response from Shamil. That's how to do it. /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 21-09-2005 21:25 >>> However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... =======Excuse me???????????? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:09:31 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:09:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi John Oh my. Looks like heaven. I had to leave that site and its temptations at once ... /gustav >>> dwaters at usinternet.com 21-09-2005 22:01 >>> Gustav, You need to go to www.brownies.com to see where you can buy the hard-won rewards! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 2:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi John That's correct! However, the method may not be the most elegant so no chocolate rewards ... /gustav >>> John.Clark at niagaracounty.com 21-09-2005 20:57 >>> >As a bonus for Susan, here's one you actually can sit down an calculate >on a piece of paper - or create a For/Next loop on the computer to do >the dirty work: >U, V, X, Y, and Z represent five different digits. Find these to >satisfy the formula: >UVXYZ * 4 = ZYXVU >/gustav 21978 21978 * 4 = 87912 I narrowed it down to a min (02513) and max (24987) and then popped it into Excel. I had to include zeros, because you hadn't mentioned them. And, by using consecutive letters, it sort of makes you think of consecutive digits as well...clouds the thought process at first. If there are any chocolate rewards, I'll donate them to Susan...I'm getting fat enough already. -- From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:12:55 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:12:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] [Private] filtering a subform Message-ID: Hi Susan You could use the method I sent you recently - using Choose(). Not fancy but extremely simple. /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 22-09-2005 01:16 >>> There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 22 03:41:44 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:41:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: Hi all Sorry, forgot that simple method is for sorting, not filtering. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 22-09-2005 10:12 >>> Hi Susan You could use the method I sent you recently - using Choose(). Not fancy but extremely simple. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 08:30:41 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:30:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte (and all), There are no plans to make VFP .Net compliant simply because there is no easy way to do it. Like Access, it is a mature product, but Microsoft continues to issues new versions, the last few with significant advances and new features in the product. I've been using it off and on for 4 years now and although Access is still my tool of choice, there are things I can do with VFP that I simply can't do with Access. The OOP is growing on me, but I still feel OOP languages overly complicate things and in the end, you still end up with the same problems that you have in changing objects in a non-oop language. Over all it's not a bad product, but like any other, it does have it's faults along with the good stuff. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 FoxPro has been around for a very long time. It started out as a dBase clone but is based on the Rushmore database engine, which is much faster than Jet, and which is the reason Microsoft bought it in the first place. There are a lot of older apps out there that were originally written in FoxPro for the speed and then were maintained over the years rather than being rewritten in something else. Visual FoxPro eventually became the product it was supposed to be (the early Visual versions were simply a UI designer over a command line editor), but it seems to be as much a stepchild now as Access is becoming. It is no longer in Visual Studio and I haven't heard whether there are any plans to make it .Net compliant. I know Access won't be, at least not if you can believe Microsoft. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Johncliviger at aol.com [mailto:Johncliviger at aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 1:08 AM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access - FoxPro - SQL2000 Hi List Several time this year I've been asked to extract data a cash register type software and each ocassion the data is in Foxpro. Where does Foxpro fit into the database market? Access is generally accepted as the entry level db and SQL 2000 is for the heavy duty db. Is there are market for Foxpro skills, is it worth learning? or is it obsolete? Comments most welcome johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 09:11:27 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:11:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh My. Just looked at the site. Blew this diabetics blood sugar clear off the map Gustav, You need to go to www.brownies.com to see where you can buy the hard-won rewards! From robert at servicexp.com Thu Sep 22 09:28:35 2005 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F55@gbsserver.GBS.local> Susan, If you go with the "code" solution you will gain a tremendous amount of flexibility. Robert Gracie -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hoopesg at hotmail.com Thu Sep 22 10:01:05 2005 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:01:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Filter form recordset by combo box Message-ID: A.D. and Doris, Thank you so much for your help! Both were great solutions. Gina From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 10:20:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:20:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <3C6BD610FA11044CADFC8C13E6D5508F4F55@gbsserver.GBS.local> Message-ID: <20050922152021.FYPV19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I agree -- this is just a set of examples for an article and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Susan H. Susan, If you go with the "code" solution you will gain a tremendous amount of flexibility. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Thu Sep 22 10:56:08 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:26:08 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform References: <20050921231618.DELF8241.ibm67aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <004d01c5bf8e$3fcf7930$28b7903b@winxp> Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 11:13:14 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:13:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <004d01c5bf8e$3fcf7930$28b7903b@winxp> Message-ID: <20050922161315.EDRN27918.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Interesting solution. You know what I've found truly odd -- I can't find a way to modify the subform's recordset using code -- that's just odd. I realize that the subform's really just a control, so it's not going to have the same properties and behavior as a form, but you'd think it would have a Record Source property, even as a subform object. I had considered just changing the linking fields, but you have to provide so much code to switch them back and forth, which is a nuisance, but at least it's a solution -- given you can't just change a Record Source property. Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 11:38:24 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:38:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <004d01c5bf8e$3fcf7930$28b7903b@winxp> Message-ID: <20050922163825.HNRB19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Actually, modifying the query isn't necessary. You just have to set the child link to an empty string (""). I had considered this yesterday, but was hoping for something a little shorter, but this morning, it doesn't seem such a big deal. :) Thanks! Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 22 11:40:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:40:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform Message-ID: You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. What you *can* do dynamically is alter the subform object, however, so another alternative would be to have 3 subforms to display the 3 result sets and simply swap out the subform on the button click. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform Interesting solution. You know what I've found truly odd -- I can't find a way to modify the subform's recordset using code -- that's just odd. I realize that the subform's really just a control, so it's not going to have the same properties and behavior as a form, but you'd think it would have a Record Source property, even as a subform object. I had considered just changing the linking fields, but you have to provide so much code to switch them back and forth, which is a nuisance, but at least it's a solution -- given you can't just change a Record Source property. Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.0/103 - Release Date: 9/15/2005 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:01:39 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:01:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Sep 22 12:16:25 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:16:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CDD0@natexch.jenkens.com> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:26:23 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:26:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CDD0@natexch.jenkens.com> Message-ID: <01fd01c5bf9a$c14dd720$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data > entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. > Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was > unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Sep 22 12:37:21 2005 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:37:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <001001c5bf9c$49962ff0$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Rocky, If your not worried about the sophisticated user you could just lock the database up by taking away the shortcut keys, DB window, menus, etc. If they can't see anything when they open the app in Access but your opening screen then they can't copy anything. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:02 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 22 12:40:48 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D24DF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> What if you just ROT-13 encode all the text. To the casual eye it will look like garbage. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to > data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not > viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user > worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the > permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I > had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the > tables and queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the > product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:47:38 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:47:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <001001c5bf9c$49962ff0$0200a8c0@murphyf3vdfepi> Message-ID: <020a01c5bf9d$b99b98c0$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Doug: I'm doing that now so they can't fool with any of my objects. But if someone who knows access creates a blank database they can still import the tables and queries from the mde. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:37 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Rocky, > > If your not worried about the sophisticated user you could just lock the > database up by taking away the shortcut keys, DB window, menus, etc. If > they can't see anything when they open the app in Access but your opening > screen then they can't copy anything. > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:02 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 12:48:38 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:48:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D24DF@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <021301c5bf9d$dcfac5c0$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Lambert: Whuzzat? (ROT-13. It sounds dreadful.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > What if you just ROT-13 encode all the text. To the casual eye it will > look > like garbage. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:26 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep > Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. > > 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look > at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if > someone > > wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do > the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It > would > be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which > is a losing proposition. > > So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. > > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elam, Debbie" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > >> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to >> data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not >> viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user >> worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the >> permissions set. >> >> Debbie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >> >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product >> (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I >> had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the >> tables and queries. >> >> Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the >> product? >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) >> subject >> to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) >> strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this >> message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this >> information. >> If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >> (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail >> is > >> a >> violation of federal criminal law. >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >> sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any >> agreement >> by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any >> attachment >> shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained >> herein >> shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic >> Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the >> Uniform >> Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic >> transactions. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fahooper at trapo.com Thu Sep 22 12:49:35 2005 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:49:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <001501c5bf9d$ff6b7410$2e01a8c0@fredxp> You can replace the queries with SQL code (copy/paste from the query viewed as SQL, treating the quotes properly), modified to provide whatever inputs the queries need direct from the code. I've done that a lot, and for a few critical cases where I needed to chain complicated queries together, I create them when they're needed from code, grab the results, and delete them before displaying the results. (It doesn't take much time.) It's still possible get around this, but unlikely. If it's the data in the tables that's the issue, you could encrypt the critical fields -- lots of ways of doing that, but most will require text fields (you could code in the numerical type as part of the encryption, if you needed to). If the table structure is the issue, I doubt there's any way of hiding it other than treating them like the queries above (creating from code what's needed and then deleting it). Fred -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:02 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DElam at jenkens.com Thu Sep 22 13:09:35 2005 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:09:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0492CDD4@natexch.jenkens.com> I liked this approach because it did not look like Access security to the users. They could even use the default .mdw as long as I left the admin password blank. It could be a bit of a pain to work on it, but I have an unsecured copy to work on and then reseure and deploy it. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data > entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. > Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was > unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 13:09:46 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:09:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <001501c5bf9d$ff6b7410$2e01a8c0@fredxp> Message-ID: <023901c5bfa0$d0a7af10$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Fred: Table structure's not too important. It would be nice to hide. But the text is in a memo field. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Hooper" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > You can replace the queries with SQL code (copy/paste from the query > viewed > as SQL, treating the quotes properly), modified to provide whatever inputs > the queries need direct from the code. I've done that a lot, and for a few > critical cases where I needed to chain complicated queries together, I > create them when they're needed from code, grab the results, and delete > them > before displaying the results. (It doesn't take much time.) It's still > possible get around this, but unlikely. > > If it's the data in the tables that's the issue, you could encrypt the > critical fields -- lots of ways of doing that, but most will require text > fields (you could code in the numerical type as part of the encryption, if > you needed to). > > If the table structure is the issue, I doubt there's any way of hiding it > other than treating them like the queries above (creating from code what's > needed and then deleting it). > > Fred > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 13:10:04 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:10:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050922181012.IAPG24941.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I thought of that too, but changing the linking field seems to work for the example. Susan H. You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. What you *can* do dynamically is alter the subform object, however, so another alternative would be to have 3 subforms to display the 3 result sets and simply swap out the subform on the button click. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Thu Sep 22 13:18:00 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:48:00 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform References: Message-ID: <001d01c5bfa2$32128990$f7be903b@winxp> Here is a solution that is absolutely code-less. In the source query for subform, have a calculated field named Status (SQL given below). Link MasterField grpStatus to ChildField Status. Option button values remain 0, -1, 1 as stated earlier. That is all. Nothing else needs to be done. A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================= SELECT Products.*, IIf(Forms!F_TestMain!grpStatus = 1, 1, [Discontinued]) AS Status FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================= ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlotte Foust To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 22:10 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. What you *can* do dynamically is alter the subform object, however, so another alternative would be to have 3 subforms to display the 3 result sets and simply swap out the subform on the button click. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform Interesting solution. You know what I've found truly odd -- I can't find a way to modify the subform's recordset using code -- that's just odd. I realize that the subform's really just a control, so it's not going to have the same properties and behavior as a form, but you'd think it would have a Record Source property, even as a subform object. I had considered just changing the linking fields, but you have to provide so much code to switch them back and forth, which is a nuisance, but at least it's a solution -- given you can't just change a Record Source property. Susan H. Susan, This is a solution with minimal code. The three option buttons have the values 0, -1 and 1 respectively. In design view, child field named Discontinued (on the subform) is linked to master field named grpStatus (on the main form). Source query (SQL given below) for the subform has a calculated field named "ALL", with constant value of 1. AfterUpdate event of option group named grpStatus, has the code given below. SF_TESTSub is the name of control serving as container for the subform. Depending upon status of option group, you will get following results displayed on the subform. (a) First button selected - Active Records (b) 2nd button selected - Discontinued Records (c) 3rd button selected - All Records A.D.Tejpal -------------- Source Query for the subform ================================ SELECT Products.*, 1 AS [ALL] FROM Products ORDER BY Products.ProductName; ================================ Form's Code Module ================================ Private Sub grpStatus_AfterUpdate() If grpStatus = 1 Then SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "ALL" Else SF_TESTSub.LinkChildFields = "Discontinued" End If End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Harkins To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 04:46 Subject: Re: [AccessD] filtering a subform There's no criteria by which to filter -- I want to add an All option that shows all the records. The first few options related to values. By setting the subform's master link property to the option group, I can get the subform to filter without any code. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to force the subform to show all the records. The option group won't work because there's no underlying value to represent All in the data in the same way. In addition, a subform has no Record Source property, so I can't set it that way. Here's the example -- using Products in Northwind, use an option group to create three options: Active, Discontinued, and All. Name the option group grpStatus and set the two option buttons' Option Value properties to 0 and -1, accordingly. Add a subform based on Products and set the subform's Child Link Fields to Discontinued and set the Master Link Fields to grpStatus. Works great until you want to add an option that isn't represented in the underlying data -- like an All option. Now, I can go to a code solution for all three options -- I just wanted to offer the simplest solution possible. Susan H. Something like this.... You would of course need to build the strSearchString criteria Dim strSearchString As String With me.ctrSubform.Form .Filter = strSearchString .FilterOn = True End with Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform I'm trying to use an option group to filter a subform -- easy enough as long as there's some relationship between the options and the subform. If there's no relationship and you don't want to use the subform's linking properties, how do you set the filter the subform's Record Source? The subform is based on a query. Susan Harkins From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 22 13:31:25 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:31:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01fd01c5bf9a$c14dd720$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <0IN8001DKE4C89@l-daemon> Hi Rocky: The only way to protect the data is to have it kept internally. Looking at the Sleep Advisor application there is very little data that is stored. If the program stored the data internal in an array or series of arrays that would solve the problem. The downside is that you will have a lot more work to do. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if someone wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which is a losing proposition. So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elam, Debbie" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to data > entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. > Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it was > unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Dear List: > > I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product > (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had > the > mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and > queries. > > Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) > subject > to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) > strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this > message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > information. > If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is > a > violation of federal criminal law. > This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the > sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any > agreement > by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any > attachment > shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein > shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform > Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic > transactions. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 13:31:59 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:31:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <001d01c5bfa2$32128990$f7be903b@winxp> Message-ID: <20050922183200.FWII6253.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> :) Susan H. Here is a solution that is absolutely code-less. In the source query for subform, have a calculated field named Status (SQL given below). From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 22 13:41:39 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:41:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde References: <0IN8001DKE4C89@l-daemon> Message-ID: <026a01c5bfa5$44bbbaf0$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Jim: Since the user can do part of the assessment stop and come back later, or adjust their responses over time, I have to save their responses in the response table. But it's really the text of the output that I'd like to hide. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > Hi Rocky: > > The only way to protect the data is to have it kept internally. Looking at > the Sleep Advisor application there is very little data that is stored. If > the program stored the data internal in an array or series of arrays that > would solve the problem. The downside is that you will have a lot more > work > to do. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:26 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep > Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. > > 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to look > at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And if > someone > > wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to do > the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. It > would > be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to enforce it which > is a losing proposition. > > So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. > > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elam, Debbie" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > >> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to >> data >> entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not viewing. >> Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user worked like it >> was >> unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the permissions set. >> >> Debbie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >> >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product >> (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had >> the >> mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and >> queries. >> >> Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) >> subject >> to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) >> strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this >> message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this >> information. >> If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >> (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail >> is > >> a >> violation of federal criminal law. >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >> sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any >> agreement >> by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any >> attachment >> shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained >> herein >> shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic >> Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the >> Uniform >> Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic >> transactions. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 13:48:06 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:48:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: Hi Rocky, What if you make all objects hidden? That would at least reduce the number of hackers you need to worry about. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:02 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Sep 22 14:00:35 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:00:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D252D@xlivmbx21.aig.com> It's a very very simply way of scrambling text data - I wouldn't go as far as to say it is encryption). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROT13 http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci214517,00.html See also http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/algorithms/rot39.htm for an Rot-39 algorithm, which has the advantage of also encoding non-alpha characters. Again, none of this is strong encryption or even close. They simply give a fast way to make the data LOOK weird. To use this method all your forms would ROT39 encode the data as it is saved to the tables, and the queries would use the exactly same routine to translate them. Alternatively, if you want to use bound forms you would save plaintext data to the tables and then use an update query to ROT39 encode the new record. If, as has been suggested, you save all your queries as text in code modules then there would be no queries visible to import, and so the nosey user would not immediately see that they were all calling rot39 to translate the data. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Lambert: Whuzzat? (ROT-13. It sounds dreadful.) Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > What if you just ROT-13 encode all the text. To the casual eye it will > look > like garbage. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:26 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > > Boy, I'd like to avoid Access security if possible. This is The Sleep > Advisor and it's going out on a self installing CD to consumers. > > 99 and 44/100ths of them won't have Access or any idea (or desire) to > look at the tables. But all of our output text is in the tables. And > if someone > > wanted to try a knockoff they could see some of the approach I used to > do the analysis and reporting. They could also get to all the text. > It would be copyright infringement but we'd have to take action to > enforce it which is a losing proposition. > > So I'm just trying to add that extra layer of protection. > > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elam, Debbie" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde > > >> Could you implement Access security that restricts the Admin login to >> data entry? I did this with a database to restrict entry, but not >> viewing. Admin was left with a blank password, so the Admin user >> worked like it was unsecured, until the user tried to exceed the >> permissions set. >> >> Debbie >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 12:02 PM >> To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >> >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product >> (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I >> had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the >> tables and queries. >> >> Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the >> product? >> >> MTIA, >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> http://www.e-z-mrp.com >> 858-259-4334 >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) >> subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work >> product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended >> recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or >> disseminate this information. >> If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender >> (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail >> is > >> a >> violation of federal criminal law. >> This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the >> sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any >> agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or >> in any attachment >> shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained >> herein >> shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic >> Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the >> Uniform >> Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic >> transactions. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Sep 22 15:35:49 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 16:35:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde In-Reply-To: <01dc01c5bf97$4cb4c750$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: Rocky, You can setup Access security so that the default mdw can be used, but no one can get at the tables. All your data access though must me done through queries with the RWOP set to True (run with owner permissions). However with Access cracking tools in wide spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. Access is not the tool of choice if you really want to protect data. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:02 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Dear List: I have an mde which is going to be distributed as a consumer product (Wise/Sagekey install). However, I see that even though I thought I had the mde all locked up, anyone with Access can still import the tables and queries. Is there a way to prevent that without causing problems in the product? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 22 16:10:52 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:10:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4333AA7C.9423.12D3CF75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 22 Sep 2005 at 9:40, Charlotte Foust wrote: > You can't alter the subform's recordsource *after it opens*, which I > don't find odd, given the nature and intent of subforms. I can. I just tried this and it works perfectly (A2K). Two Tables, Table1 and Table 2 with identical structure. Two Forms, Form1 is a subform of Form2 and Form2 also contains a button. The following code switches display between the two recordsources in the subform every time I click on the button on Form2 Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table2" Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" End If -- Stuart From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 22 18:33:13 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:33:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <4333AA7C.9423.12D3CF75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20050922233321.KHBF28317.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I need to use a SQL statement. Susan H. On 22 Sep 2005 at 9:40, Charlotte Foust wrote: The following code switches display between the two recordsources in the subform every time I click on the button on Form2 Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table2" Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "Table1" End If -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Sep 22 21:30:59 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:30:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <20050922233321.KHBF28317.ibm69aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <4333AA7C.9423.12D3CF75@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4333F583.14020.13F8D82F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 22 Sep 2005 at 19:33, Susan Harkins wrote: > I need to use a SQL statement. > This works exactly the same as the first example: Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table2.* FROM Table2; " Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " End If End Sub -- Stuart From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 02:51:20 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:51:20 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A kind of Friday humor - Google moon Message-ID: <000d01c5c014$3eb81ee0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> http://moon.google.com/ zoom it in to the max... Shamil From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 06:06:45 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:06:45 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 07:37:20 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:37:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] filtering a subform In-Reply-To: <4333F583.14020.13F8D82F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20050923123724.PMSB25845.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I tried the RecordSource property yesterday and got an error -- I'll try again today, maybe I just typed something wrong. Susan H. This works exactly the same as the first example: Private Sub Command9_Click() If Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " Then Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table2.* FROM Table2; " Else Forms!form2!Form1.Form.RecordSource = "SELECT Table1.* FROM Table1; " End If End Sub From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Fri Sep 23 08:02:21 2005 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:02:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Is it 34? Jeffrey F. Demulling Project Manager U.S. Bank Corporate Trust Services 60 Livingston Avenue EP-MN-WS3C St. Paul, MN 55107-2292 Ph: 651-495-3925 Fax: 651-495-8103 email: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com "Gustav Brock" To Sent by: accessd at databaseadvisors.com accessd-bounces at d cc atabaseadvisors.c om Subject Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment 09/23/2005 06:06 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 08:03:09 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:03:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050923130312.PEOE27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think it's pi -- everything evaluates to pi! ;) Susan H. Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Sep 23 08:18:35 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:18:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CDB7@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: 23-Sep-2005 14:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment I think it's pi -- everything evaluates to pi! ;) Susan H. Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 08:27:25 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:27:25 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <004001c5c042$bbb08710$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Gustav, One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers with decimal notation basis - then they will get: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 No clue :( Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and the answer should have two digits?: Given: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 7 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 1 With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit can be made even. It can't be made odd. Target: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 8 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 2 Answer: 41? It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for others to look for the right answer in other areas.... Shamil P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) What is the missing number: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Fri Sep 23 08:59:39 2005 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:59:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A kind of Friday humor - Google moon Message-ID: <08F823FD83787D4BA0B99CA580AD3C74016C3E65@TTNEXCHCL2.hshhp.com> My kids have been telling me that for years! Wait until I tell them it's true... Thanks Shamil Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:51 AM To: !DBA-MAIN Subject: [AccessD] OT: A kind of Friday humor - Google moon http://moon.google.com/ zoom it in to the max... Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:23:31 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:23:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Jeffrey Nope. Did you study the hint? /gustav >>> jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com 23-09-2005 15:02:21 >>> Is it 34? Jeffrey F. Demulling Project Manager U.S. Bank Corporate Trust Services 60 Livingston Avenue EP-MN-WS3C St. Paul, MN 55107-2292 Ph: 651-495-3925 Fax: 651-495-8103 email: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com "Gustav Brock" To Sent by: accessd at databaseadvisors.com accessd-bounces at d cc atabaseadvisors.c om Subject Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment 09/23/2005 06:06 AM Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:26:03 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:26:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan That's not the route to chocolates! /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 23-09-2005 15:03:09 >>> I think it's pi -- everything evaluates to pi! ;) Susan H. Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:28:03 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:28:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Tom Not here (you know that) /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 15:18:35 >>> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:29:51 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:29:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil Well, you _have_ a clue. You may wish to read my hint again ... A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> Gustav, One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers with decimal notation basis - then they will get: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 No clue :( Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and the answer should have two digits?: Given: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 7 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 1 With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit can be made even. It can't be made odd. Target: ===== 0 -> 2 1 -> 8 2 -> 4 3 -> 2 4 -> 2 Answer: 41? It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for others to look for the right answer in other areas.... Shamil P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) What is the missing number: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav From tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk Fri Sep 23 09:39:48 2005 From: tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk (Tom Bolton) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:39:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C831880857CDB8@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Apologies. I thought the topic subject was sufficient that I could slip in a little light humour. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: 23-Sep-2005 15:28 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi Tom Not here (you know that) /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 15:18:35 >>> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------- next part -------------- The contents of this message and any attachments are the property of Donns Solicitors and are intended for the confidential use of the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other party without our written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately so that we can make arrangements for its return. You should not show this e-mail to any person or take copies as you may be committing a criminal or civil offence for which you may be liable. The statement and opinions expressed in this e-mail message are those of the writer, and do not necessarily represent that of Donns Solicitors. Although any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus protection software prior to transmission, you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. Donns Solicitors does not accept any liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses... From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 09:57:29 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:57:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Tom Oh, please do. That was not what I meant (you should know that). /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 16:39:48 >>> Apologies. I thought the topic subject was sufficient that I could slip in a little light humour. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: 23-Sep-2005 15:28 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi Tom Not here (you know that) /gustav >>> tom.bolton at donnslaw.co.uk 23-09-2005 15:18:35 >>> Three - that's the magic number. ;-) I'll get me coat (if you never saw 'The Fast Show', it was the catchphrase of a character who never failed to say the wrong thing) From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 10:29:32 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:29:32 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <003f01c5c053$9cba70d0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 11:03:57 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:03:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: <003f01c5c053$9cba70d0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: The first five numbers add up sequentially 1 (1+0), 2 (1+1), 3 (1+2), 4 (1+3), 5 (1+4) but its gets goofy after that, so that can't be it :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 11:16:17 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 18:16:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil and David You have to tune in on a different channel ... it is really very simple, though a bit unusual. Nothing like weird scancodes. /gustav >>> dmcafee at pacbell.net 23-09-2005 18:03:57 >>> The first five numbers add up sequentially 1 (1+0), 2 (1+1), 3 (1+2), 4 (1+3), 5 (1+4) but its gets goofy after that, so that can't be it :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 8:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 11:29:07 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:29:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A woman was shopping at her local supermarket where she selected : A quart of orange juice A half gallon of 2% milk A carton of eggs A head of Romaine lettuce A 2 lb can of coffee and 1 lb of bacon. As she was unloading her items on the conveyor belt to check out, a drunk standing behind her watched as she placed the items in front of the cashier. While the cashier was ringing up the purchases, the drunk calmly stated, "You must be single." The woman was a bit startled by this proclamation, but she was intrigued by the derelicts intuition, since she was indeed single. She looked at her six items on the belt and saw nothing particularly unusual about her selections that could have tipped off the drunk to her marital status. Curiosity getting the better of her, she said "Well, you know what, you're absolutely correct . But how on earth did you know that?" The drunk replied, "Cause you're ugly" From James at fcidms.com Fri Sep 23 12:00:54 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:00:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INA004CZ4LIXGG0@mta8.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Sep 23 12:10:18 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:10:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Message-ID: <200509231710.j8NHANT25758@databaseadvisors.com> I'm cleaning shop here and ran across this set of ODBC drivers. "Visigenic ODBC Driverset" the full set with serial number/license. I don't think they are any value in a Windows only environment. If you are developing in an environment of WIndows/Unix they may be of some value. I used to use it for app access to Unix Data. I no longer have a use for them and will ship them out to anyone who thinks they might. Here is a decent description of them: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~webstw/cm/ns_js_ssa/dbconfig.htm John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 12:17:56 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:17:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 12:22:46 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:22:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050923172254.THAY6253.ibm56aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? ========Well, that was the deal. :) Susan H. From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 12:35:18 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:35:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: my head hurts :( -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Fri Sep 23 12:47:56 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:47:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INA00MXV6RWSSC0@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Gustav Well, I don't eat chocolate so Susan is welcome to it. But, you can't have 31 in base 3, that's why the 101 (3^2*1 + 3*0 + 1). Anyway, thanks for the diversion. James -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 23 12:53:43 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 21:53:43 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <001e01c5c067$be4b7d70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? Yes, of course. > expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers I was close to the clue experimenting with notation basis :( But James found error in your sequence. And I didn't expect there was one. So the answer is: 10 = 10 (base 10) 11 = 10 (base 9) 12 = 10 (base 8) 13 = 10 (base 7) 14 = 10 (base 6) 20 = 10 (base 5) 22 = 10 (base 4) 101 = 10 (base 3) 1010 = 10 (base 2) Thank you, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi James > > Great! That's it: 1010. > > The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. > The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: > 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. > > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? > > /gustav > > >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> > Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches > would be: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 > > James Barash > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 23 13:01:57 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:01:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi James and Shamil You are so right, sorry. Proves my inexperience with 3-based numbers!! And that this list knows just about everything. Anyway, this is only for fun! (Are you listening Susan? Or are you trying how to match pi and some chocolate pieces?) /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:47:56 >>> Gustav Well, I don't eat chocolate so Susan is welcome to it. But, you can't have 31 in base 3, that's why the 101 (3^2*1 + 3*0 + 1). Anyway, thanks for the diversion. James -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 1:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi James Great! That's it: 1010. The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? /gustav >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches would be: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Hi all We still have this open: 3. What is the next number in this series: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) /gustav From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 23 13:08:40 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c067$be4b7d70$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: Ah, now I get it. Nice explanation Shamil. So what was the answer to the Month problem? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? Yes, of course. > expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers I was close to the clue experimenting with notation basis :( But James found error in your sequence. And I didn't expect there was one. So the answer is: 10 = 10 (base 10) 11 = 10 (base 9) 12 = 10 (base 8) 13 = 10 (base 7) 14 = 10 (base 6) 20 = 10 (base 5) 22 = 10 (base 4) 101 = 10 (base 3) 1010 = 10 (base 2) Thank you, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 9:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi James > > Great! That's it: 1010. > > The sequence is right. It's 10 (ten) expressed as 10 to 3 based numbers and the requested is the binary (2) based expression. > The only remaining item I can think of would be 1 based which is a joke as that should be ten 1's: > 1111111111 - which equals just counting your fingers. > > Should the chocolate go to Susan anyway? > > /gustav > > >>> James at fcidms.com 23-09-2005 19:00:54 >>> > Are you sure that sequence is correct? The only one I've seen that matches > would be: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 101 1010 > > James Barash > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:07 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > Hi all > > We still have this open: > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marcus at tsstech.com Fri Sep 23 13:24:28 2005 From: marcus at tsstech.com (Scott Marcus) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:24:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: A Hitchhiker told me the answer is '42'. Scott Marcus IT Programmer TSS Technologies Inc. www.tss.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 11:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Well, you _have_ a clue. OK, I have it but I don't see it. > You may wish to read my hint again ... Yes, I did read it: "A hint: The requested item is the last one possible" - still no wise sparks in my braincells.... Maybe the answer is 44? - the last one possible two digits number if we assume that 5 is a notation basis of the original sequence: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 44 Even if the answer is correct - no clue why it's so.... Are the original numbers scancodes/codes for the core letters of keypad: ASDFGHJKL? These are nine letters and nine numbers are in the requested sequence - then hint works but still no clue how keypad letters correspond to the given numbers' sequence.... Maybe tomorrow I will give it another try if somebody else will not solve it before. No time on entertainment today, have to do some boring work... Thanks, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Well, you _have_ a clue. > You may wish to read my hint again ... > > A puzzle for me? Thanks! Will get to that later. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27:25 >>> > Gustav, > > One may guess the basis of notation isn't decimal and try the most obvious > 5, 7 and 16 as a notation basis and convert the sequence to the numbers > with decimal notation basis - then they will get: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 > > 5: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 16 > 7: 7 8 9 10 11 14 16 22 > 16: 16 17 18 19 20 32 34 49 > > No clue :( > > Stupid idea: total quantity of any used digit should be even or odd > and the answer should be greater than the last number in the sequence and > the answer should have two digits?: > > Given: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 7 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 1 > > With one additional number with two digits the quantity of every used digit > can be made even. It can't be made odd. > > Target: > ===== > 0 -> 2 > 1 -> 8 > 2 -> 4 > 3 -> 2 > 4 -> 2 > > Answer: 41? > > It doesn't look like this answer deserve a a tasty chocolate but anyway for > others to look for the right answer in other areas.... > > Shamil > > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:06 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > > > > Hi all > > > > We still have this open: > > > > 3. What is the next number in this series: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 31 ? > > > > It's quite clever in fact. A true nerd thing suited for any programmer. > > A hint: The requested item is the last one possible ...(?!!) > > > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Fri Sep 23 15:07:15 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms Message-ID: <20050923200715.68302.qmail@web81507.mail.yahoo.com> I hope somebody can help with this. How can I set a form so that I can specify the form name passing a variable. strForm = "frmTest" [Forms]!strForm.Visible = True I want to do something like this. The form is reusable. I'm guessing I have to dimension a form variable and then set the object. I'm just not sure how. Thanks, Jeremy Toves From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 23 15:41:49 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 16:41:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D27BB@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Forms(strForm).Visible = True I.e. you can reference the Forms collection using the name of the form as an index into the collection. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:07 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms I hope somebody can help with this. How can I set a form so that I can specify the form name passing a variable. strForm = "frmTest" [Forms]!strForm.Visible = True I want to do something like this. The form is reusable. I'm guessing I have to dimension a form variable and then set the object. I'm just not sure how. Thanks, Jeremy Toves -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 23 16:03:54 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:03:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050923210402.VMJM27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Are you listening Susan? Or are you trying how to match pi and some chocolate pieces? =========Pi is chocolate isn't it????????? Susan H. From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 24 01:47:02 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:47:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D27BB@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <20050924064702.99117.qmail@web81508.mail.yahoo.com> That worked great. Thanks, Jeremy "Heenan, Lambert" wrote: Forms(strForm).Visible = True I.e. you can reference the Forms collection using the name of the form as an index into the collection. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 4:07 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Setting Forms I hope somebody can help with this. How can I set a form so that I can specify the form name passing a variable. strForm = "frmTest" [Forms]!strForm.Visible = True I want to do something like this. The form is reusable. I'm guessing I have to dimension a form variable and then set the object. I'm just not sure how. Thanks, Jeremy Toves -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 24 03:52:29 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:52:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi David No suggestions yet ... Got one? /gustav >>> dmcafee at pacbell.net 23-09-2005 20:08 >>> So what was the answer to the Month problem? From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 24 03:56:08 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 10:56:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Susan To some it is, yes. /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 23-09-2005 23:03 >>> Are you listening Susan? Or are you trying how to match pi and some chocolate pieces? =========Pi is chocolate isn't it????????? Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Sep 24 05:58:16 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 12:58:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil Could it be a 5-based sequence? (10)5 (11)5 (12)5 (13)5 (14)5 (20)5 (22)5 (?)5 (31)5 equals in 10-base: 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 (?) 16 Then number that fits in here is 14, thus the missing item in 5-base is 24. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27 >>> P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) What is the missing number: 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 From shamil at users.mns.ru Sat Sep 24 13:43:00 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 22:43:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment References: Message-ID: <002c01c5c137$cb70da60$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Yes, Gustav, it's 5-based sequence. Yes, number that fits is 24 (5) 10 11 12 13 14 || 20 22 (24) 31 10+11 = 21-1 = 20 11+12 = 23-1 = 22 12+13 = 30-1 = 24 <== 13+14 = 32-1 = 31 and so on ... Of course your task was much more interesting... Have nice weekend, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Could it be a 5-based sequence? > > (10)5 (11)5 (12)5 (13)5 (14)5 (20)5 (22)5 (?)5 (31)5 equals in 10-base: > > 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 (?) 16 > > Then number that fits in here is 14, thus the missing item in 5-base is 24. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27 >>> > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Sep 24 15:12:15 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:12:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) to DoCmd.RunCommand In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509242012.j8OKCGT17948@databaseadvisors.com> Is there a web site that precisely documents these translations? I have wasted more than an hour in the Access no-help and MSDN and come up with nothing exhaustive. A few googles turned up nothing as well. In the ideal world, I would like a map of all the old code to the new code (DoCmd.RunCommand). In the immediate situation, I would like to translate these snippets: DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 8, , acMenuVer70 DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 2, , acMenuVer70 DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 5, , acMenuVer70 'Paste Append DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acLast This is the code generated by the "Duplicate Record" wizard in Access 2003. (Well, not the last line, that is mine -- what would be the point of duplicating a record unless you intended to visit it? MS apparently didn't think of that. Go figure. In a high-traffic situation, this last line might not work, I realize. My current problem is low-traffic so that is not an issue. However, if someone has a better method that is scalable, that would be appreciated, too. Since the PK in the table is autonumber, following the Paste command one would need to grab the PK just created then do a Find based on it, I'm thinking... this might circumvent new rows being added by other users in a high-traffic situation... but that is just a guess at the moment.) Back to the main point: can anyone supply a source for replacing the first three lines of code with their DoCmd.RunCommand equivalents? TIA, Arthur From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Sat Sep 24 15:28:55 2005 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:28:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) toDoCmd.RunCommand References: <200509242012.j8OKCGT17948@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000c01c5c146$97463780$0202a8c0@default> Hi Arthur, http://home.clara.net/tkwickenden/ See DoMenuItem conversion ---- Michael R. Mattys Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) toDoCmd.RunCommand > Is there a web site that precisely documents these translations? I have > wasted more than an hour in the Access no-help and MSDN and come up with > nothing exhaustive. A few googles turned up nothing as well. > In the ideal world, I would like a map of all the old code to the new code > (DoCmd.RunCommand). > In the immediate situation, I would like to translate these snippets: > DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 8, , acMenuVer70 > DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 2, , acMenuVer70 > DoCmd.DoMenuItem acFormBar, acEditMenu, 5, , acMenuVer70 'Paste Append > DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acLast > This is the code generated by the "Duplicate Record" wizard in Access 2003. > (Well, not the last line, that is mine -- what would be the point of > duplicating a record unless you intended to visit it? MS apparently didn't > think of that. Go figure. In a high-traffic situation, this last line might > not work, I realize. My current problem is low-traffic so that is not an > issue. However, if someone has a better method that is scalable, that would > be appreciated, too. Since the PK in the table is autonumber, following the > Paste command one would need to grab the PK just created then do a Find > based on it, I'm thinking... this might circumvent new rows being added by > other users in a high-traffic situation... but that is just a guess at the > moment.) > Back to the main point: can anyone supply a source for replacing the first > three lines of code with their DoCmd.RunCommand equivalents? > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Sep 24 18:23:36 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:23:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Translations from Menuitem macros (old school) toDoCmd.RunCommand In-Reply-To: <000c01c5c146$97463780$0202a8c0@default> Message-ID: <43366C98.30658.1D99EF3B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 24 Sep 2005 at 16:28, Michael R Mattys wrote: > Hi Arthur, > http://home.clara.net/tkwickenden/ Great site. I've just bookmarked it. It will save me a lot of heartache in a current project where I am upgrading quite a few small A97 applications which were written by a "dabbler" and are full macros and "DoCmd.DoMenuItem"s. -- Stuart From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sat Sep 24 20:23:32 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Message-ID: <20050925012332.52919.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy From Gustav at cactus.dk Sun Sep 25 13:50:06 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:50:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment Message-ID: Hi Shamil This one is fine! It demonstrates that not everything is what it looks like. Without the fresh clue on non-10-based numbers it could have tortured me for much longer time. /gustav >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 24-09-2005 20:43:00 >>> Yes, Gustav, it's 5-based sequence. Yes, number that fits is 24 (5) 10 11 12 13 14 || 20 22 (24) 31 10+11 = 21-1 = 20 11+12 = 23-1 = 22 12+13 = 30-1 = 24 <== 13+14 = 32-1 = 31 and so on ... Of course your task was much more interesting... Have nice weekend, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday entertainment > Hi Shamil > > Could it be a 5-based sequence? > > (10)5 (11)5 (12)5 (13)5 (14)5 (20)5 (22)5 (?)5 (31)5 equals in 10-base: > > 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 (?) 16 > > Then number that fits in here is 14, thus the missing item in 5-base is 24. > > /gustav > > >>> shamil at users.mns.ru 23-09-2005 15:27 >>> > P.S. My Friday puzzle to you Gustav :) > > What is the missing number: > > 10 11 12 13 14 20 22 (?) 31 From ldoering at symphonyinfo.com Sun Sep 25 15:03:23 2005 From: ldoering at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:03:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Message-ID: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Jeremy, Make a BE with the ODBC links to the SQL tables. Link the existing FE to the BE, renaming the links to whatever table names the FE is expecting. It's a double link, so the longest possible way around, but it should make all the pieces work together. Good luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:47 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Sun Sep 25 19:12:16 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:12:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing fields to normalize data References: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Message-ID: ..given a record containing the following data: (from a legacy DOS app) field name: EMSID field type: long record data: 44318 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#1) field type: text record data: 649/651/ 748/ 750 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#2) field type: text record data: 653/655/ 657/ 659/ 752/ 754/ 756/ 1358 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#3) field type: text record data: DF-7/DF-8 ..I need to make a new table with the following data structure: (sort order is immaterial) EMSID BoothNum 44318 649 44318 651 44318 748 44318 750 44318 653 44318 655 44318 657 44318 659 44318 752 44318 754 44318 756 44318 1358 44318 DF-7 44318 DF-8 ..I know I've done this before but it was back in the days when my brain cells weren't full of plaque :( ..I've racked my remaining shreds and tried dozens of supposed solutions and am now throwing things at the wall ...some stick :( ..will some poor soul here take mercy on me and end my misery ...other than by shooting me? William ...working waaaaaay too late on a Sunday after watching my Dolphins win today by the hair in their teeth :) From fahooper at trapo.com Sun Sep 25 19:23:27 2005 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:23:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL In-Reply-To: <20050925012332.52919.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003601c5c230$84d1fc20$2e01a8c0@fredxp> I'd say that the quickest solution would be to use a search/replace program for the table names (they don't work in the code, so you'd need to do that with Access' search/replace). The only one I have experience with is Speed Ferret which also works with SQL Server, although it's probably the most costly. This would change all the table references inside queries, reports, etc. Fred Hooper -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 25 22:24:00 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL In-Reply-To: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Message-ID: <20050926032400.25649.qmail@web81502.mail.yahoo.com> Liz, My email was a little confusing. The naming problems are with fields in the table. The table names are fine. I appreciate the effort. Thanks, Jeremy Liz Doering wrote: Jeremy, Make a BE with the ODBC links to the SQL tables. Link the existing FE to the BE, renaming the links to whatever table names the FE is expecting. It's a double link, so the longest possible way around, but it should make all the pieces work together. Good luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:47 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net Sun Sep 25 22:26:50 2005 From: itsame2000 at sbcglobal.net (Jeremy Toves) Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL In-Reply-To: <003601c5c230$84d1fc20$2e01a8c0@fredxp> Message-ID: <20050926032650.10328.qmail@web81503.mail.yahoo.com> I'm taking a look into that. I noticed another Access database for a different customer with a SQL backend. It works with the spaces in the field names. I'm not sure if that is a driver issue or what. I'll check out the search and replace. I'll have to load the tables with underscores and run the search and replace to update field references in all of the database objects. Thanks, Jeremy Fred Hooper wrote: I'd say that the quickest solution would be to use a search/replace program for the table names (they don't work in the code, so you'd need to do that with Access' search/replace). The only one I have experience with is Speed Ferret which also works with SQL Server, although it's probably the most costly. This would change all the table references inside queries, reports, etc. Fred Hooper -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 9:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Sep 26 07:42:57 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 18:12:57 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing fields to normalize data References: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343C@dewey.Symphony.local> Message-ID: <007a01c5c297$ea4a8650$b51865cb@winxp> William, Sample subroutine given below should be able to get the needful done. T_A is the source table with fields with fields named EMSID (number type), Booth_1, Booth_2 and Booth_3 (all text type), while T_B is the target table with fields EMSID (number type) and BoothNum (text type). The procedure will take care of all fields in series identified by "Booth_" in the source table (i.e. even if more or less than three). Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ==================================== Sub Normalize() Dim rst1 As DAO.Recordset, rst2 As DAO.Recordset Dim fd As DAO.Field Dim Txt As String, Rtv As Variant, Cnt As Long Set rst1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("T_A") Set rst2 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("T_B") Do While Not rst1.EOF For Each fd In rst1.Fields If Left(fd.Name, 6) = "Booth_" Then Txt = fd.Value Txt = Replace(Txt, Space(1), "") Rtv = Split(Txt, "/") For Cnt = LBound(Rtv) To UBound(Rtv) With rst2 .AddNew .Fields("EMSID") = rst1.Fields("EMSID") .Fields("BoothNum") = Rtv(Cnt) .Update End With Next End If Next rst1.MoveNext Loop rst1.Close rst2.Close Set rst1 = Nothing Set rst2 = Nothing Set fd = Nothing End Sub ==================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: William Hindman To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 05:42 Subject: [AccessD] Parsing fields to normalize data ..given a record containing the following data: (from a legacy DOS app) field name: EMSID field type: long record data: 44318 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#1) field type: text record data: 649/651/ 748/ 750 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#2) field type: text record data: 653/655/ 657/ 659/ 752/ 754/ 756/ 1358 field name: Booth Number or numbers (#3) field type: text record data: DF-7/DF-8 ..I need to make a new table with the following data structure: (sort order is immaterial) EMSID BoothNum 44318 649 44318 651 44318 748 44318 750 44318 653 44318 655 44318 657 44318 659 44318 752 44318 754 44318 756 44318 1358 44318 DF-7 44318 DF-8 ..I know I've done this before but it was back in the days when my brain cells weren't full of plaque :( ..I've racked my remaining shreds and tried dozens of supposed solutions and am now throwing things at the wall ...some stick :( ..will some poor soul here take mercy on me and end my misery ...other than by shooting me? William ...working waaaaaay too late on a Sunday after watching my Dolphins win today by the hair in their teeth :) From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 26 08:46:58 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:46:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: I am trying to build a pass through query to add a column to a table in SQL Server. For the ODBC Connect Str I added the text from the Connect field in the MSysObjects table after the ODBC; that is already in the field giving me the following ODBC;DSN=Forceast;Description=Forceast;APP=Microsoft Office 2003;WSID=KAUPCHE1-TX;DATABASE=Forecast;Trusted_Connection=Yes The SQL statement I used is as follows: ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) I can open the table fine from the table window. What am I missing here. THANKS! Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon Sep 26 09:00:05 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:00:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677233786B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> That was four days I wouldn't wish on anyone. Although we had some damage and no electricity for 2 days, fortunately the worst part of the storm missed us. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:dejpolsys at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Rita ..time for a quick trip to tica land? ...take care of your family, eh. William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Accessd (E-mail)" Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita > We are shut down until Monday and I will be hunkering down at home here 40 > mi north of Galveston. I was in Alicia and Allison but this one looks > worse > by a factor of ten. See ya'll Monday (hopefully) > Jim Hale > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ldoering at symphonyinfo.com Mon Sep 26 09:08:16 2005 From: ldoering at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:08:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Message-ID: <855499653F55AD4190B242717DF132BC08343D@dewey.Symphony.local> Jeremy, That's what I get for replying with a severe head cold. Fred's way is your best bet. Good Luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 10:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL Liz, My email was a little confusing. The naming problems are with fields in the table. The table names are fine. I appreciate the effort. Thanks, Jeremy Liz Doering wrote: Jeremy, Make a BE with the ODBC links to the SQL tables. Link the existing FE to the BE, renaming the links to whatever table names the FE is expecting. It's a double link, so the longest possible way around, but it should make all the pieces work together. Good luck! Liz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Toves Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2005 8:47 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Migration to SQL I am migrating an Access 97 backend to a SQL server database. The previous Access table design included spaces in the field names. I can view the table in a pass through query, but can't view it with an ODBC link. If I change the fields names from spaces to underscores, the ODBC link can view the SQL tables. Has anybody experienced the following problem? Do you know where I can find some white papers on this issue? Upgrading the Access version is not an option. A quick turn around is required, so I've been asked to find a solution other than changing from spaces to underscores if possible. Ideas? Thanks, Jeremy -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 26 09:13:34 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:13:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Rita In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677233786B@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <20050926141333.QOFR15457.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Welcome back Jim -- we're glad to hear from you. :) Susan H. That was four days I wouldn't wish on anyone. Although we had some damage and no electricity for 2 days, fortunately the worst part of the storm missed us. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 26 09:16:33 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:16:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050926141635.QPYT15457.ibm61aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) From d.dick at tripledee.com.au Mon Sep 26 09:22:01 2005 From: d.dick at tripledee.com.au (Darren DICK) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:22:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2003 to SQL:ADO Message-ID: <200509261422.j8QEMkT06024@databaseadvisors.com> Cross posted to the DBA SQL list Hi All Can someone give me a quick rundown or point me to a ref. on the INSERT and UPDATE abilities using ADO. I vaguely remember the differences between ADO and DAO INSERT and UPDATE etc were substantial As in...you couldn't (do one or the other) using ADO - Is that correct? Many thanks Darren _________________________ Darren DICK TripleDee Databases T: 0424 696 433 E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au W: www.tripledee.com.au From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 26 09:27:50 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:27:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Sep 26 09:40:18 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:40:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050926144025.NSYJ25845.ibm70aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm sorry -- I should've caught that. I really don't think that including COLUMN should return an error -- I think T-SQL will interpret ADD COLUMN and ADD. A Double is float -- try that,. . Susan H. You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. From James at fcidms.com Mon Sep 26 09:43:59 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:43:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INF00F42I9BYJ30@mta10.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> There is no data type DOUBLE in SQL Server. Try changing that to float. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Sep 26 09:53:34 2005 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:53:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: Thanks for the help. That got the query to work. I should have checked into SQL server data types. That's what happens when engineers put me outside my comfort zone. Now another question if I may. Is there a way to tell if a SQL server or Oracle link is to a table or a view? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server There is no data type DOUBLE in SQL Server. Try changing that to float. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Sep 26 10:38:38 2005 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:38:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A154F81E9@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Chester, In Access 97: If you go into design view of the table in question, then view the table properties (View menu, Properties option). The Description line in the properties box shows the connection properties of the table including the table/view you are connected to. I find it helpful to open a Zoom window on that line (Shift+F2 when it is selected). Another way is to view the system tables (Tools menu, Options option, View tab, click on System Objects). The MSysObjects table will have a Connect column with the same database connection information then the ForeignName column tells the table/view. You can only view the information in these places, you can't change the settings. HTH Rusty -----Original Message----- From: Kaup, Chester [mailto:Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server Thanks for the help. That got the query to work. I should have checked into SQL server data types. That's what happens when engineers put me outside my comfort zone. Now another question if I may. Is there a way to tell if a SQL server or Oracle link is to a table or a view? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server There is no data type DOUBLE in SQL Server. Try changing that to float. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server You are correct I don't need the word COLUMN. Also found an error with a space before 05. Took out the space. Now get an error of incorrect syntax near ;. Removed the ; and get a message of incorrect syntax near DOUBLE. Persistence will prevail. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pass Trough Query to SQL Server It's possible that you don't need the keyword COLUMN but why don't you try running the statement in Query Analyzer and see what kind of error you get -- might be a more helpful message. Just a thought. Susan H. ALTER Table dbo_Sharon_Ridge ADD COLUMN SR_CO2_Sep_ 05 DOUBLE I get the following message when I try to run the query ODBC - call failed [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver][SQL Server]Incorrect syntax near the keyword 'COLUMN'. (#156) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Sep 26 11:58:39 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:58:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2003 to SQL:ADO References: <200509261422.j8QEMkT06024@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <433828BF.8050706@shaw.ca> I keep forgetting about this source of info on ADO for VBA code You should get the MDAC SDK includes ADO help files ado260.chm Available from downloads area at http:\\www.microsoft.com/data It maybe available on WinXP by default so check first. Not sure if there are higher help versions for MDAC 2.8 or file uses the same name. It installs to here, I then create a desktop shortcut C:\Program Files\Microsoft Data Access SDK\Docs\ado260.chm Open up tree menus ADOProgrammersReference-->ADO API reference --> ADO Code Examples --> Visual Basic Examples Methods and Properties Code examples AddNew Method Example Append and CreateParameter Methods Example AppendChunk and GetChunk Methods Example BeginTrans, CommitTrans, and RollbackTrans Methods Example Cancel Method Example Clone Method Example CompareBookmarks Method Example ConvertToString Method Example CopyRecord, CopyTo, and SaveToFile Methods Example CreateRecordset Method Example Delete Method Example DeleteRecord and MoveRecord Methods Example Execute, Requery, and Clear Methods Example Find Method Example GetRows Method Example GetString Method Example and so on.... or this help file, not as useful for vba unless working with SQL Sever it comes from SQL BOL download C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server Books Online\1033\adosql.chm Darren DICK wrote: >Cross posted to the DBA SQL list > >Hi All >Can someone give me a quick rundown or point me to a ref. on the INSERT and >UPDATE abilities using ADO. >I vaguely remember the differences between ADO and DAO INSERT and UPDATE etc >were substantial >As in...you couldn't (do one or the other) using ADO - Is that correct? > >Many thanks > >Darren > >_________________________ >Darren DICK >TripleDee Databases >T: 0424 696 433 >E: d.dick at tripledee.com.au >W: www.tripledee.com.au > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From KIsmert at texassystems.com Mon Sep 26 12:30:10 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:30:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: >>However with Access cracking tools in wide >>spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. The mde format appears to be a very poor choice for distributing applications. See Alex Dybenko: More stuff to convert MDE to MDB http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2005/01/more-staff-to-convert-mde-to-mdb.htm l [Access] QBuilt reverse engineers MDE http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2004/10/access-qbuilt-reverse-engineers-mde. html I've read they can even get your complete source code back. I hate to see the talented developers and entrepreneurs on this list risking the fruits of their labors with a format that Microsoft can't seem to make work in any practical sense. One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform. I would strongly suggest that if you're seriously trying to make a business of selling software, and your product is Access-based, you should move your app to another, better suited, platform. -Ken From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Sep 26 13:11:19 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:11:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar Message-ID: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Dear List: I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more likely to see them. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From artful at rogers.com Mon Sep 26 13:36:09 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Run-Time Error 2051: The OpenForm Action Was Canceled In-Reply-To: <000c01c5c146$97463780$0202a8c0@default> Message-ID: <200509261836.j8QIaDT32065@databaseadvisors.com> The line throwing the error simply tries to open the form: DoCmd.OpenForm "myForm" This wasn't happening an hour ago. Any idea where I ought to look to see what is going wrong? TIA, Arthur From artful at rogers.com Mon Sep 26 13:48:42 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:48:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Run-Time Error 2051: The OpenForm Action Was Canceled In-Reply-To: <200509261836.j8QIaDT32065@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509261848.j8QImkT04301@databaseadvisors.com> I found the problem, but it had nothing to do with OnOpen. Strange creature, this Access 2003. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: September 26, 2005 2:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Run-Time Error 2051: The OpenForm Action Was Canceled The line throwing the error simply tries to open the form: DoCmd.OpenForm "myForm" This wasn't happening an hour ago. Any idea where I ought to look to see what is going wrong? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon Sep 26 14:14:01 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:14:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D29F1@xlivmbx21.aig.com> "One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform." But AFIK .NET pCode is almost human readable, and certainly very easy to reverse engineer. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >>However with Access cracking tools in wide >>spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. The mde format appears to be a very poor choice for distributing applications. See Alex Dybenko: More stuff to convert MDE to MDB http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2005/01/more-staff-to-convert-mde-to-mdb.htm l [Access] QBuilt reverse engineers MDE http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2004/10/access-qbuilt-reverse-engineers-mde. html I've read they can even get your complete source code back. I hate to see the talented developers and entrepreneurs on this list risking the fruits of their labors with a format that Microsoft can't seem to make work in any practical sense. One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform. I would strongly suggest that if you're seriously trying to make a business of selling software, and your product is Access-based, you should move your app to another, better suited, platform. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon Sep 26 14:22:44 2005 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:22:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File Message-ID: Anyone have a routine to create a text file and write to that text file? I have the routine to create the strings to be added. Now I just need to create a text file and then write each string to that file. There could be anywhere from 1 to 250 strings to be added and each needs to be its own line. Actually what I'm making is a fixed length text file. Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 14:38:07 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:38:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? Message-ID: I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound subform. When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form and make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear out for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my backup of the adp, adn I received the following error: There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or reports. Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. For infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net 2003. :( thanks... -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Mon Sep 26 14:46:47 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:46:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677233787A@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Here is a routine I use to build fixed length strings to upload to the AS400 Jim Hale Function ExportTableToText_TSB(strDatabase As String, strTable As String, strFile As String) As Boolean ' Comments : exports the data from a table to a fixed length text file ' Parameters: strDatabase - path and name of the database to look in or "" (blank string) for the current database ' strTable - name of the table/query containing the data to export ' strFile - name of the file to export to (if it exists, it will first be deleted) ' Returns : True if successful, False otherwise ' Dim dbstmp As Database Dim rstTmp As Recordset Dim intFile As Integer Dim intCounter As Integer Dim strTmp As String On Error GoTo PROC_ERR If strDatabase = "" Then Set dbstmp = CurrentDb() Else Set dbstmp = DBEngine.Workspaces(0).OpenDatabase(strDatabase) End If ' Kill the file if necessary On Error Resume Next Kill strFile On Error GoTo PROC_ERR ' Open the file intFile = FreeFile Open strFile For Output As intFile ' Open the recordset and loop through it Set rstTmp = dbstmp.OpenRecordset(strTable, dbOpenDynaset) With rstTmp Do Until .EOF ' initialize the Tmp string strTmp = "" 'Build the record with fixed length fields For intCounter = 0 To .Fields.Count - 1 Select Case intCounter Case 0 'Company strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 7) Case 1 'GL strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 8) Case 2 'SL strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 5) Case 3 'BYEAR strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 6) Case 4 'BMONTH strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 8) Case 5 'DEPT strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 5) Case 6 'AMT strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & Format(.Fields(intCounter).Value, "###.00"), 14) Case 7 'REPOST strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 6) Case Else 'PLANNO strTmp = strTmp & Right(" " & .Fields(intCounter).Value, 7) End Select Next intCounter Print #intFile, strTmp .MoveNext Loop .Close End With Close #intFile dbstmp.Close ExportTableToText_TSB = True PROC_EXIT: Exit Function PROC_ERR: ExportTableToText_TSB = False Resume PROC_EXIT End Function -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 2:23 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File Anyone have a routine to create a text file and write to that text file? I have the routine to create the strings to be added. Now I just need to create a text file and then write each string to that file. There could be anywhere from 1 to 250 strings to be added and each needs to be its own line. Actually what I'm making is a fixed length text file. Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From RRANTHON at sentara.com Mon Sep 26 15:08:31 2005 From: RRANTHON at sentara.com (Randall R Anthony) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:08:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? Message-ID: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> "any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net 2003." Which could have overwritten an existing .dll housing your ADO. Check your references by looking at any module code window and selecting from the menu bar, tools, references, look for any indicated with a "Missing" note. >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 09/26/05 3:38 PM >>> I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound subform. When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form and make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear out for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my backup of the adp, adn I received the following error: There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or reports. Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. For infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net 2003. :( thanks... -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 15:43:22 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:43:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? In-Reply-To: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: I checked that first, but I do not have any Missing references :( On 9/26/05, Randall R Anthony wrote: > > "any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > 2003." Which could have overwritten an existing .dll housing your ADO. > Check your references by looking at any module code window and selecting > from the menu bar, tools, references, look for any indicated with a > "Missing" note. > > >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 09/26/05 3:38 PM >>> > I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound > subform. > When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form > and > make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear > out > for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my > backup > of the adp, adn I received the following error: > > There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or > reports. > Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. > For > infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. > > any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > 2003. > :( > > thanks... > -- > -Francisco > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From fhtapia at gmail.com Mon Sep 26 16:08:37 2005 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:08:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ActiveX problem? In-Reply-To: References: <200509262008.j8QK8mT32757@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: I moved to another PC, and re-imported again from the main .adp and I am receiving the same error. On 9/26/05, Francisco Tapia wrote: > > I checked that first, but I do not have any Missing references :( > > > On 9/26/05, Randall R Anthony wrote: > > > > "any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > > 2003." Which could have overwritten an existing .dll housing your ADO. > > Check your references by looking at any module code window and selecting > > > > from the menu bar, tools, references, look for any indicated with a > > "Missing" note. > > > > >>> fhtapia at gmail.com 09/26/05 3:38 PM >>> > > I have an Access Data Project (access 2000) and it contains a bound > > subform. > > When I enter lineitems into the subform, then return to the parent form > > and > > make a data change, I end up having the display of my lineitems clear > > out > > for some strange reason.??? I tried -re-importing these forms from my > > backup > > of the adp, adn I received the following error: > > > > There was an error loading an ActiveX control on one of your forms or > > reports. > > Make sure all the controls that you are using are properly registered. > > For > > infomration on registring an ActiveX control, click Help. > > > > any ideas? the only thing I recently did was reload my Studio dot Net > > 2003. > > :( > > > > thanks... > > -- > > -Francisco > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! > http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... > -- -Francisco http://pcthis.blogspot.com |PC news with out the jargon! http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Sep 26 16:44:19 2005 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:44:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Create and write Text File In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4338F853.2537.24E33C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> On 26 Sep 2005 at 14:22, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Anyone have a routine to create a text file and write to that text file? > > I have the routine to create the strings to be added. Now I just need to > create a text file and then write each string to that file. There could be > anywhere from 1 to 250 strings to be added and each needs to be its own > line. > Once upon a time this was "bread and butter" to any BASIC programmer. Strange how few people do it these days :-) Function WriteFile(Filename as String) Dim intFile as INteger 'Get next available file handle intFile = FreeFile 'create file (overwrites any exisiting file) Open Filename for Output as intFile Do 'call routine to create next string strLine = ........... 'write to file Print #intFile, strLine Loop Until....... 'Close the file Close #intFile End Function-- Stuart From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Sep 26 18:26:20 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 16:26:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde Message-ID: But Lambert, they ARE abandoning it as a serious development platform. In the immortal words of Microsoft, Access is being positioned as a "landing pad for data", not as a database or datastore. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde "One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform." But AFIK .NET pCode is almost human readable, and certainly very easy to reverse engineer. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Stopping import of tables and queries from mde >>However with Access cracking tools in wide >>spread use, I doubt it's worth the effort. The mde format appears to be a very poor choice for distributing applications. See Alex Dybenko: More stuff to convert MDE to MDB http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2005/01/more-staff-to-convert-mde-to-mdb.htm l [Access] QBuilt reverse engineers MDE http://alexdyb.blogspot.com/2004/10/access-qbuilt-reverse-engineers-mde. html I've read they can even get your complete source code back. I hate to see the talented developers and entrepreneurs on this list risking the fruits of their labors with a format that Microsoft can't seem to make work in any practical sense. One litmus test of whether Microsoft is really committed to Access developers will be if they provide a reasonable (secure, easier to install) distribution package with version 12. Of course, they've already done all this work with .NET -- which leads me back to my line of thinking that if the next Access isn't .NET based, they are abandoning it as a serious development platform. I would strongly suggest that if you're seriously trying to make a business of selling software, and your product is Access-based, you should move your app to another, better suited, platform. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Sep 27 00:40:24 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:40:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509231710.j8NHANT25758@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> I would like a copy. artful at rogers.com. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 23, 2005 1:10 PM To: _DBA-Tech; _DBA-Access; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set I'm cleaning shop here and ran across this set of ODBC drivers. "Visigenic ODBC Driverset" the full set with serial number/license. I don't think they are any value in a Windows only environment. If you are developing in an environment of WIndows/Unix they may be of some value. I used to use it for app access to Unix Data. I no longer have a use for them and will ship them out to anyone who thinks they might. Here is a decent description of them: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~webstw/cm/ns_js_ssa/dbconfig.htm John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Sep 27 01:00:54 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:00:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509270600.j8R60mT28290@databaseadvisors.com> Hi Arthur, I only have one copy and you're the sole responder so its coming to you. Send your mailing address/instructions to: john at winhaven.net John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set I would like a copy. artful at rogers.com. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 23, 2005 1:10 PM To: _DBA-Tech; _DBA-Access; dba-sqlserver at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set I'm cleaning shop here and ran across this set of ODBC drivers. "Visigenic ODBC Driverset" the full set with serial number/license. I don't think they are any value in a Windows only environment. If you are developing in an environment of WIndows/Unix they may be of some value. I used to use it for app access to Unix Data. I no longer have a use for them and will ship them out to anyone who thinks they might. Here is a decent description of them: http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/~webstw/cm/ns_js_ssa/dbconfig.htm John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Sep 27 01:05:07 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:05:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F165D29F1@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 27 02:19:52 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:19:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] A2003 to SQL:ADO Message-ID: Hi Marty Thanks! >It maybe available on WinXP by default so check first. I haven't it, so I guess it is not. /gustav >>> martyconnelly at shaw.ca 26-09-2005 18:58 >>> I keep forgetting about this source of info on ADO for VBA code You should get the MDAC SDK includes ADO help files ado260.chm Available from downloads area at http:\\www.microsoft.com/data It maybe available on WinXP by default so check first. Not sure if there are higher help versions for MDAC 2.8 or file uses the same name. It installs to here, I then create a desktop shortcut C:\Program Files\Microsoft Data Access SDK\Docs\ado260.chm From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 07:58:50 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:58:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> Hi Arthur: Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it will be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like XML becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw SQL Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 08:56:38 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:56:38 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> Message-ID: <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my intellectual property with their development software then I think they would/should be held libel in a civil court. I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was destined to be open source. BL On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > will > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > XML > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > SQL > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > al. > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > MS > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > the > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > do > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > There > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > apps > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > ago, > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > to > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > mainstream. > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > ADP > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > this > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > same > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > software and nothing more.) > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > that > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > the > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > side > of things. > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 09:21:50 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:21:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <> Actually it says that it allows you to make changes, but not in the existing code because it's compiled. However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else that does say they can de-compile the code. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Boogie Loogie Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my intellectual property with their development software then I think they would/should be held libel in a civil court. I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was destined to be open source. BL On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > will > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > XML > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > SQL > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > al. > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > MS > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > the > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > do > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > There > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > apps > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > ago, > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > to > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > mainstream. > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > ADP > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > this > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > same > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > software and nothing more.) > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > that > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > the > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > side > of things. > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 09:27:43 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:27:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 27 09:54:03 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:54:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <14633124.1127830435929.JavaMail.root@sniper21> Message-ID: <000001c5c373$4df89800$0200a8c0@danwaters> Jim - can you point to the company with this claim? >However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else >that does say they can de-compile the code. > >Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 09:57:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:57:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000f01c5c373$c9a953e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time commitments. The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have .NET available at your fingertips. I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site I am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules that "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net in this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a download. I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 10:05:05 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:05:05 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com><0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. They can only "unlock" forms' and reports' designs. They can't crack the code. Serge Gavrilov a long ago published similar utility for free. A while ago I helped here somebody to get their reports' designs out of .mde. I didn't know that time Serge Gavlilov's utility and I still don't know how Serge Gavrilov and romanian guys get .mde unlocked - I have heard that just one bit have to be patched or something like that. What I did when I helped to get designs out of .mde was just connection to a running MS Access app using Automation and getting all designs into a new database. This is possible since MS Access 95 I think. The similar things can be done with ordinary MS Windows, COM and .NET apps using .DLL injection techniques. All that is well known but have you seen a lot of apps "cracked" this way? > There are obfuscating tools available I think that these obfuscating tools are really good even relatively cheap ones. I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its standard edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with developing similar code from scratch. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boogie Loogie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more > powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However > the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source > code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive > third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly > as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. > > SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my > intellectual property with their development software then I think they > would/should be held libel in a civil court. > > I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file > I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found > http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. > > BL > > On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > > will > > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > > XML > > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > > SQL > > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > > development team to make it one. > > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > > al. > > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access developme nt > > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > > MS > > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > > the > > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > > do > > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > > There > > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > > apps > > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > > ago, > > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > > to > > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > > mainstream. > > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > > ADP > > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > > this > > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > > same > > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > > software and nothing more.) > > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > > that > > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > > the > > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > > side > > of things. > > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > > Arthur > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 10:09:05 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:09:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: For my money, .Net is great! Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. Perhaps the hardest part is figuring out which to choose from among the many option available when you want to do a particular thing. Typed datasets are far handier than either linked or local tables, and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:14:23 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:14:23 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3bf43ee9050927081452679985@mail.gmail.com> On 9/27/05, Charlotte Foust wrote: and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything > I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. > > Charlotte Foust Yes someone else can do it. I just want them to do it from scratch like I did. I do not want them to profit off of my hard work by decompiling and copying. Paranoid - No. Protective over my intellectual property - Yes BL From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:16:52 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:16:52 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <3bf43ee905092708166c96a54c@mail.gmail.com> > I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its > standard > edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. > IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with > developing similar code from scratch. >From what I read I would need the enterprise edition at $1400.00 because I have to embed** .NET Framework dependencies. A little pricy to do something that Microsoft should have done within their development suite. BL From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 10:21:41 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C032@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF01C@ADGSERVER> As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 10:36:00 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:36:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000001c5c373$4df89800$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <004701c5c379$3f9cb1a0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> There is VB decompiler - http://www.vb-decompiler.net/ But looking at its screenshots and examples I'd say it's rather useless for anybody exept hardcore hackers. As far as I can guess VBA code is translated into similar p-code - and if a VBA decompiler exists it will not produce anything more readable than this existing VB decompiler... This VB decompiler seems to have been written by somebody from my country Russia who doesn't want to open his/her name and who writes in English rather badly - you can get more info here: http://vbdecompiler.dotfix.net/ I can be wrong. But anyway I'd use free open source code if I find one or write my own from scratch instead of using such decompilers - I think most of the developers would do the same. Therefore IMO the danger of getting cracked your VB6, VBA and VS.NET applications is rather low... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Jim - can you point to the company with this claim? > > > >However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else > >that does say they can de-compile the code. > > > >Jim. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 10:45:48 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:45:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com><0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com><003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <3bf43ee905092708166c96a54c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005b01c5c37a$89292a50$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> What for do you need to embed .NET Framework dependencies? Once again, I did use standard edition for USD99 for commercial application - it' s good enough to protect the code... HTH, Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boogie Loogie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its > > standard > > edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. > > IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with > > developing similar code from scratch. > > > > >From what I read I would need the enterprise edition at $1400.00 because I > have to embed** .NET Framework dependencies. A little pricy to do something > that Microsoft should have done within their development suite. > > BL > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 10:44:27 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:44:27 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <005b01c5c37a$89292a50$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> <3bf43ee90509270656708b6c4c@mail.gmail.com> <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <3bf43ee905092708166c96a54c@mail.gmail.com> <005b01c5c37a$89292a50$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <3bf43ee9050927084453a7ba07@mail.gmail.com> Ok I will give the cheap version a try. I had been hoping to embed In The Hand ADOCE. On 9/27/05, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > > What for do you need to embed .NET Framework dependencies? > > Once again, I did use standard edition for USD99 for commercial > application - it' s good enough to protect the code... > > HTH, > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Boogie Loogie" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:16 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its > > > standard > > > edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. > > > IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable > with > > > developing similar code from scratch. > > > > > > > > >From what I read I would need the enterprise edition at $1400.00 > because > I > > have to embed** .NET Framework dependencies. A little pricy to do > something > > that Microsoft should have done within their development suite. > > > > BL > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 10:46:20 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF01C@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <001201c5c37a$9aff5ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Tue Sep 27 10:51:31 2005 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:51:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF288@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Hey, Boogie Loogie! Is the hyperlink you gave to: correct? I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" error when I click on the link. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Boogie Loogie Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my intellectual property with their development software then I think they would/should be held libel in a civil court. I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was destined to be open source. BL On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Hi Arthur: > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > will > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > XML > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > SQL > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > al. > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > MS > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > the > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > do > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > There > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > apps > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > ago, > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > to > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > mainstream. > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > ADP > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > this > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > same > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > software and nothing more.) > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > that > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > the > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > side > of things. > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 10:51:25 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:51:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003501c5c375$027db570$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: Shamil, I think it's a little more then we've seen in the past; their saying they can make additions to the VBA project and the current MDE via the use of macros (which to me doesn't sound like their doing anything special at all). As a result, the truth may be a different matter. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. They can only "unlock" forms' and reports' designs. They can't crack the code. Serge Gavrilov a long ago published similar utility for free. A while ago I helped here somebody to get their reports' designs out of .mde. I didn't know that time Serge Gavlilov's utility and I still don't know how Serge Gavrilov and romanian guys get .mde unlocked - I have heard that just one bit have to be patched or something like that. What I did when I helped to get designs out of .mde was just connection to a running MS Access app using Automation and getting all designs into a new database. This is possible since MS Access 95 I think. The similar things can be done with ordinary MS Windows, COM and .NET apps using .DLL injection techniques. All that is well known but have you seen a lot of apps "cracked" this way? > There are obfuscating tools available I think that these obfuscating tools are really good even relatively cheap ones. I used one of them - Xenocode - http://www.xenocode.com - even its standard edition for USD99 looks good enough to well protect the code. IMO to reverse engineer a well obfuscated code is a task comparable with developing similar code from scratch. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Boogie Loogie" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:56 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > I have been learning dot.net for some time now. It is more > powerful with respect to developing applications for a Pocket PC. However > the one BIG BIG drawback to Vb.Net I have just learned, is that your source > code is not safe. VB.Net compiled apps can be decompiled with inexpensive > third party software. There are obfuscating tools available but as quickly > as new one comes out a decompiler comes out saying it can crack it. > > SO...I hold Microsoft responsible for this. If they can not protect my > intellectual property with their development software then I think they > would/should be held libel in a civil court. > > I was about to say 'If there is a third party app that can crack a .mde file > I do not know of it, so Access wins with respect to that.' but then I found > http://www.adresa.ro/QSDET1709.htm so this really sucks. Maybe all code was > destined to be open source. > > BL > > On 9/27/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access > > and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access > > developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it > > will > > be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. > > > > On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next > > version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like > > XML > > becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw > > SQL > > Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. > > > > Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 11:05 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > > development team to make it one. > > The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with > > Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will > > regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. > > al. > > We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access developme nt > > team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of > > MS > > either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. > > I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them > > personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this > > product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in > > the > > money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. > > This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can > > do > > things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. > > There > > will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access > > apps > > to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long > > ago, > > when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which > > revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one > > to > > step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET > > converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned > > by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS > > mainstream. > > The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the > > ADP > > project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long > > this > > will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside > > Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the > > same > > way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is > > pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their > > software and nothing more.) > > I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go > > that > > way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that > > delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see > > that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to > > the > > table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and > > thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real > > expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application > > side > > of things. > > Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) > > Arthur > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 10:51:25 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:51:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte, << Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. >> That's where I am now with VFP, so hopefully it won't be too much of a leap when the time comes. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For my money, .Net is great! Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. Perhaps the hardest part is figuring out which to choose from among the many option available when you want to do a particular thing. Typed datasets are far handier than either linked or local tables, and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 10:52:14 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:52:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c373$4df89800$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: Dan, in the process of getting the URL, I read more of their comments and it seems like it's not what I first thought, although probably not what you want to hear either. It seems what they are actually doing is reading some of the p-code, then coding themselves to do the "restore" of code. They gleam the framework of the code, procedure names, parameters, variables, etc, then fill in the blanks. I don't doubt it will be long before they have the rest of it. Sounds like a work in progress. Here's the URL: http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/faq.html#HowToRestoreSrcCode Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim - can you point to the company with this claim? >However there is a company out there that was just posted by someone else >that does say they can de-compile the code. > >Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Tue Sep 27 11:00:30 2005 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:00:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <001201c5c37a$9aff5ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <0INH003KLGGURI40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:04:39 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:04:39 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF288@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> References: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF288@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <3bf43ee90509270904e54e05@mail.gmail.com> On 9/27/05, Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research < alan.lawhon at us.army.mil> wrote: > > Hey, Boogie Loogie! > > Is the hyperlink you gave to: correct? > > I keep getting a "Page cannot be displayed" error when I click on the > link. > > Alan C. Lawhon Hi I did not put that link there. It was either done by Gmail or the group. If you want some .Net Goodies: http://www.startvbdotnet.com/ http://www.developerfusion.co.uk/vbnet/ http://www.codeproject.com Google also has a ton of resources just a search away. BL From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:14:25 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:14:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C057@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF020@ADGSERVER> Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:18:47 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:18:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF020@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF021@ADGSERVER> Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:27:18 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:27:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF021@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF022@ADGSERVER> Went back and reread your original post about saying something about the free stuff. Half way down the page that I linked to, it says "Join us for a Launch Tour 2005 event and receive SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.*" Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 11:28:32 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:28:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF021@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <001501c5c380$8304b080$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a major, the nearest of which is over in Boston). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 11:32:57 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:32:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF022@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF024@ADGSERVER> Looks like you might be able to attend it online also. I did not follow the links, but check this out here: http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Went back and reread your original post about saying something about the free stuff. Half way down the page that I linked to, it says "Join us for a Launch Tour 2005 event and receive SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.*" Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 11:33:45 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:33:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001501c5c380$8304b080$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <001a01c5c381$3de0fe40$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Well, I'm registered. Now I just have to remember to go. The end of November is a bit of a ways out for this tired old brain. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a major, the nearest of which is over in Boston). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From boogieloogie at gmail.com Tue Sep 27 11:34:11 2005 From: boogieloogie at gmail.com (Boogie Loogie) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:34:11 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <0INH003KLGGURI40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <001201c5c37a$9aff5ba0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> <0INH003KLGGURI40@mta1.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: <3bf43ee9050927093433adb9cb@mail.gmail.com> Think I will go to the one in Boston to get my free stuff :) On 9/27/05, James Barash wrote: > > http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list > of > such launch sites? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 27 11:49:08 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:49:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000f01c5c373$c9a953e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <01d601c5c383$6109c710$6501a8c0@HAL9004> John: How does it compare with Access' reporting capabilities? That's one of the things I like most about Access - the way you can generate a fairly complex report quickly. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high > speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. > .Net > is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. > With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time > commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and > indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely > that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing > since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it > is > also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on > my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a > "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in > a > data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type > containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your > properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff > just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a > download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we > like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives > to > Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not > in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved > so > far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I > don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot > help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as > heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will > continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul > within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure > conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am > slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 27 11:53:59 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:53:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <31631621.1127833657733.JavaMail.root@sniper21> Message-ID: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Sep 27 11:55:14 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:55:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <20306380.1127837063056.JavaMail.root@sniper17> Message-ID: <000401c5c384$3b815c00$0200a8c0@danwaters> I will go to the one in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 27 11:58:16 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:58:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <023601c5c384$a8069430$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Is .NET included in VS 2005? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue Sep 27 12:00:59 2005 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:00:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: I think I will be making the jump across the river. Jeffrey F. Demulling Project Manager U.S. Bank Corporate Trust Services 60 Livingston Avenue EP-MN-WS3C St. Paul, MN 55107-2292 Ph: 651-495-3925 Fax: 651-495-8103 email: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com "Dan Waters" To Sent by: "'Access Developers discussion and accessd-bounces at d problem solving'" atabaseadvisors.c om cc Subject 09/27/2005 11:53 Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, AM .NET and SQL Please respond to "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation. ============================================================================== From KIsmert at texassystems.com Tue Sep 27 12:05:33 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:05:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >>But AFIK .NET pCode is almost human readable, and >>certainly very easy to reverse engineer. You have a good point, Lambert, and that prompted me to do some quick research: .NET programs are compiled to MSIL (a kind of p-Code) a common Intermediate Language which is then executed by the Common Language Runtime (CLR). MSIL is stored in .NET assemblies, which, along with descriptive metadata, are both housed in the DLL and EXE files produced by .NET compilers. The CLR converts MSIL to machine code using a JIT compiler at execution time. Because MSIL is a fairly straightforward conversion of a higher-level language, it is easy to decompile, especially with the help of the metadata. However, Code Obfuscators exist which will protect the internals of your code. In fact, Visual Studio .NET 2003 and 2005 ship with basic obfuscators. So, you are right, .NET is not secure 'out of the box'. But, there are well known ways to secure your code. The level of security you want will determine how much money and effort you are willing to spend. Certainly, there is a tug-of-war between obfuscator and the decompiler technology. But, at least in .NET you can get a reasonable level of security for your hard-won code. With Access, there is nothing beyond the unacceptably insecure mde format. And that seems unlikely to improve. -Ken References: Intellectual Property Protection and Code Obfuscation http://www.15seconds.com/issue/040310.htm Decompiling .NET Assemblies http://aspnet.4guysfromrolla.com/demos/printPage.aspx?path=/articles/080 404-1.aspx From karenr7 at oz.net Tue Sep 27 12:09:28 2005 From: karenr7 at oz.net (Karen Rosenstiel) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:09:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF024@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <200509271709.j8RH9QT15329@databaseadvisors.com> I just signed up for the session in Seattle in November. Regards, Karen Rosenstiel Seattle WA USA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Looks like you might be able to attend it online also. I did not follow the links, but check this out here: http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Went back and reread your original post about saying something about the free stuff. Half way down the page that I linked to, it says "Join us for a Launch Tour 2005 event and receive SQL Server 2005 and Visual Studio 2005.*" Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Sure. Go here: http://www.microsoft.com/events/2005launchevents/default.mspx And select a city from the combo box with "Select the city nearest you." Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at outbaktech.com Tue Sep 27 12:24:34 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:24:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 13:01:53 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:01:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C09F@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF027@ADGSERVER> Yes Rocky, it is .Net 2.0 that you have been hearing about. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is .NET included in VS 2005? Rocky From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Sep 27 13:00:42 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:00:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <200509271801.j8RI1FT19587@databaseadvisors.com> As far as i can tell its .NET all they way at MS. I think intregration with Sharepoint will be the way office and access will go lot of xml as well. I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. Martin From adtp at touchtelindia.net Tue Sep 27 13:00:36 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:30:36 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c71865cb@winxp> Rocky, Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the active one. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- Code module for Pop Up Form ================================ ' Declarations Section Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long -------------------------------------------------------- Private Sub CmdNext_Click() DoCmd.Echo False Me.Visible = False BringWindowToTop RepHdw DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow SendKeys "{DOWN}", True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 Me.Visible = True BringWindowToTop FrmHdw DoCmd.Echo True End Sub Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() DoCmd.Echo False Me.Visible = False BringWindowToTop RepHdw DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow SendKeys "{UP}", True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 Me.Visible = True BringWindowToTop FrmHdw DoCmd.Echo True End Sub Private Sub Form_Activate() DoCmd.Restore End Sub Private Sub Form_Load() RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd FrmHdw = Me.hwnd End Sub ================================ ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar Dear List: I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more likely to see them. MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 13:11:50 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:11:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Crystal Reports ships with VS.Net but many of us use 3rd party reporting tools. Our office uses DataDynamics' ActiveReports, which is very reminiscent of Access reports and even has a wizard to convert Access reports. Still takes some hand work, but not bad. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL John: How does it compare with Access' reporting capabilities? That's one of the things I like most about Access - the way you can generate a fairly complex report quickly. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have > high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the > books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I > have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, > huge time commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, > and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS > "greatest thing since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but > it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you > register on my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web > site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call > a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. > Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of > that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. > As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much > stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there > for a download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my > way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether > we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for > alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact > that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as > a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal > interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and > Access->certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are > not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has > achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak > directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a > long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various > powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they > tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure > conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of > their software and nothing more.) I am slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 13:16:49 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:16:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Jim, You, of all people, will have no problem with .Net! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Charlotte, << Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. >> That's where I am now with VFP, so hopefully it won't be too much of a leap when the time comes. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For my money, .Net is great! Once you get your head around not only n-tier design, but classes for *everything*, it simply isn't that difficult. Perhaps the hardest part is figuring out which to choose from among the many option available when you want to do a particular thing. Typed datasets are far handier than either linked or local tables, and I'm not paranoid about my code being stolen because anything I invent can be thought of by someone else just as readily. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 13:17:42 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:17:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509271801.j8RI1FT19587@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050927181741.HIPF27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. =========True. Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 13:27:02 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:27:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050927181741.HIPF27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001b01c5c391$0ea78120$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> JET IS NOT DEAD. As long as developers are allowed to get at the objects in Access programmatically, JET is the library that performs that magic. JET will not be enhanced for versions up through Access 2003. A branch has been assigned (transferred, given) to the Access dev team and they will continue to enhance and maintain that branch for future releases of Access. Or so I am told, second hand. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. =========True. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 27 13:28:19 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:28:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 27-09-2005 20:17:42 >>> I think jet is dead and believe i read there is a new db egnine in the new version of office. =========True. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Sep 27 13:36:37 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:36:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C0D2@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF029@ADGSERVER> But Active reports is expensive. Do you use it for personal use or at work? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Crystal Reports ships with VS.Net but many of us use 3rd party reporting tools. Our office uses DataDynamics' ActiveReports, which is very reminiscent of Access reports and even has a wizard to convert Access reports. Still takes some hand work, but not bad. Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 13:38:58 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:38:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what we've known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for backward compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I don't want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new technologies when what I've got works just fine. Susan H. Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? From word_diva at hotmail.com Tue Sep 27 13:44:40 2005 From: word_diva at hotmail.com (Nancy Lytle) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:44:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: I'm going to Newark on Dec. 1st. Nancy Lytle ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:54 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches > in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Sep 27 13:54:32 2005 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:54:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what > we've > known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for > backward > compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I > don't > want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new > technologies when what I've got works just fine. > > Susan H. > > Hi Susan > > Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Sep 27 14:03:36 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 21:03:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... /gustav >>> mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk 27-09-2005 20:54:32 >>> All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what > we've > known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for > backward > compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I > don't > want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new > technologies when what I've got works just fine. > > Susan H. > > Hi Susan > > Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 14:16:18 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:16:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin From artful at rogers.com Tue Sep 27 14:22:25 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:22:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INH00L9W81YMA@l-daemon> Message-ID: <200509271922.j8RJMST19039@databaseadvisors.com> Undoubtedly we are getting older. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 27, 2005 8:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Arthur: Most of the work I have done for the last eight years has been with Access and MS SQL or an Oracle BE. I think that is where most of the Access developers have been migrating. It is a great presentation tool and it will be a long while before its functionality is surpassed. On the other Hand, everything is moving towards the web with the next version of ADO.Net 2 being very much a RAD type program, standards like XML becoming common and SQL databases everywhere and getting cheaper. Throw SQL Reporter into the mix and maybe that is the future of development. Maybe we are just getting old Arthur?? Jim From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 14:34:00 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:34:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Sep 27 14:38:24 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:38:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <031c01c5c39b$0666e140$6501a8c0@HAL9004> I'm signed up for Anaheim, December 6. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? > > Dan Waters > > -----Original Message----- > > > As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in > November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular > edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. > > Bobby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 14:40:34 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:40:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: Something a little more direct: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/features/2005/09-13Office12-Access _lg.jpg Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Sep 27 14:42:54 2005 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: John, <> Same can be said for VFP as well. Versions 6,7,8, and 9 all had major enhancements. "Version 10" seems to be nothing more then a bunch of small add-ons and is rumored to be the last release for VFP. It's .Net, .Net, .Net and nothing but. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 14:47:35 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:47:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c5c39c$4ebde730$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Something a little more direct: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/images/features/2005/09-13Office12-Access _lg.jpg Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 15:27:13 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:27:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000f01c5c373$c9a953e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <0INH00B2ZST8SO@l-daemon> Hi John: Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the same??? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time commitments. The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have .NET available at your fingertips. I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site I am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules that "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net in this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a download. I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Tue Sep 27 15:37:32 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:37:32 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000a01c5c3a3$4b0743a0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <<< The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more >>> Yes, MS Office(VBA) probably not. But Visual Studio Tools for Office(VSTO) are very good to develop MS Office add-ins etc. And they (VSTO) are getting better with every new version of VS.NET. Last autumn I did make convertion of several MS Excel VBA add-ins into VSTO VB.NET MS Excel Add-ins. That wasn't a big challenge. So I suppose that MS Office Add-ins/third-party Office Automatuon tools will exist as long as MS Office exists and because MS Office is a "cash cow" for MS then they promise to exist for a long time... I guess MS Access Object model will not "die" and it will be supported as long as new MS Access versions will be released - it shouldn't be a rocket science programming to write VB.NET/C# code to handle MS Access forms properties and events in .NET class libraries - so anybody who has stable MS Access customers who don't plan to migrate to something else may well keep developing in MS Access and .NET.... Well, this would be probably not the recommended by MS "mixture" but possible solution. Somebody may call it too tricky to be true but it should work... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly > developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to > be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at > all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and > completely different. > > Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause > "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the > replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things > with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers > etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you > got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. > > Get out now while the gettin's good. > > My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS > pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of > companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a > dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a > clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. > > Just my opinion. > > I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my > services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily > move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to > VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the > emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, > VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever > again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) > application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in > the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so > it will be a good tradeoff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I > think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the > new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in > > talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the > Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but > > thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer > > be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear > > the new engine woudl work with JET. > > I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want > > to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and > have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up > what they think. > > > Martin > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:11:16 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:11:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <200509270605.j8R653T29793@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4339C384.2030705@shaw.ca> Actually ADP is being dropped it won't hook into SQL Server 2005 unless the SQL Server 2005 is installed in degraded SQL 2000 mode. You can still uses ADO from an MDB to get at SQL 2005 But SQL DMO is being replaced by SMO. which maybe part of the cause. Mary Chipman mentioned this. I can repost from her blog. I think that MDB format is being dropped from Office 12 actually the whole Jet engine may be replaced by something called ACE. but it will be backward compatible. Maybe something to do with new LINQ language, but this is a wild guess. I just got another call for a contract on JCL REXX IMS DB2, if it is any consolation. I usually go to these sites and ask for access to the IBM Redbooks and the reply is usually,"What??" These guys still think Lyndon Johnson is president. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a >serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access >development team to make it one. >The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with >Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will >regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. >We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development >team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS >either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. >I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them >personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this >product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the >money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. >This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do >things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There >will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps >to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, >when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which >revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to >step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET >converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned >by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS >mainstream. >The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP >project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this >will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside >Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same >way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is >pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their >software and nothing more.) >I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that >way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that >delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see >that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the >table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and >thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side >of things. >Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:24:01 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:24:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <001a01c5c381$3de0fe40$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4339C681.4080505@shaw.ca> They will usually send you a reminder a day or two beforehand , in Canada, they get you to printout a barcoded admission ticket. John W. Colby wrote: >Well, I'm registered. Now I just have to remember to go. The end of >November is a bit of a ways out for this tired old brain. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:29 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a major, >the nearest of which is over in Boston). > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? > >Bobby > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:40:01 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:40:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> <023601c5c384$a8069430$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <4339CA41.5020009@shaw.ca> http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/default.aspx Here you can get the Beta Versions of SQL Express and 2005, Visual VB 2005 ,C##, Java## Web Developer (aka asp.net) etc, Downloads are large 300 Megs. Do NOT install Beta SQL Server 2005 or Express on same machine as SQL 2000 or MSDE There are dll incompatiblities especially DMO. Bad things will happen. All these beta versions time expire April 2006. Here is the SQL Express Blog on connecting Access 2003 or VB6 to SQL Express http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/category/6103.aspx You will also need .Net framework version 1.1 installed for above to run Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Is .NET included in VS 2005? > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dan Waters" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > >>I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? >> >>Dan Waters >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >> >>As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in >>November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular >>edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. >> >>Bobby >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 17:40:38 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:40:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <20050927224038.LVHJ27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The warning I received was more in step with support (like writing). I was told to expect a substantial learning curve and if I insisted on upgrading any existing books, to be prepared for a lot of work. Susan H. All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 17:42:01 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:42:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050927224200.LVSH27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 17:45:00 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:45:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000301c5c384$0ee7aa50$0200a8c0@danwaters> <023601c5c384$a8069430$6501a8c0@HAL9004> <4339CA41.5020009@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4339CB6C.7010303@shaw.ca> I guess you will also need this little thingamjig, it was released later. Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express Manager - Community Technology Preview (CTP) June 2005 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C7A5CC62-EC54-4299-85FC-BA05C181ED55&displaylang=en MartyConnelly wrote: >http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/default.aspx >Here you can get the Beta Versions of SQL Express and 2005, Visual VB >2005 ,C##, Java## >Web Developer (aka asp.net) etc, Downloads are large 300 Megs. > >Do NOT install Beta SQL Server 2005 or Express on same machine as SQL >2000 or MSDE >There are dll incompatiblities especially DMO. Bad things will happen. > >All these beta versions time expire April 2006. > >Here is the SQL Express Blog on connecting Access 2003 or VB6 to SQL Express >http://blogs.msdn.com/sqlexpress/archive/category/6103.aspx > >You will also need .Net framework version 1.1 installed for above to run > > >Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: > > > >>Is .NET included in VS 2005? >> >>Rocky >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Dan Waters" >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:53 AM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>I will go to the event in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? >>> >>>Dan Waters >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>>As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in >>>November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular >>>edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. >>> >>>Bobby >>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>>-- >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 27 17:50:25 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 18:50:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339CB6C.7010303@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050927225024.LZIC27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The tools that have been promised forever or now on ice. Susan H. I guess you will also need this little thingamjig, it was released later. Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express Manager - Community Technology Preview (CTP) June 2005 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C7A5CC62-EC54-4299- 85FC-BA05C181ED55&displaylang=en From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 18:02:17 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:02:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> <002201c5c394$ea3560b0$0100a8c0@Martin> Message-ID: <4339CF79.6090608@shaw.ca> Well Sharepoint or WSS sits on top of SQL Server, you can send Access 2003 tables to WSS "lists" directly via a bit of vba code and edit them via the web. If you see Sharepoint Lists, think Access tables. I still don't know how you do referential integrity or multi list queries in WSS. On my todo lists. The code is fairly simple to swap Access tables to WSS back and forth. I think you can do this with lower forms of Access too. The following example exports the contents of the Customers table to a new list named Customer List on the "http://example/WSSSite" Windows SharePoint Services site. DoCmd.TransferDatabase transfertype:=acExport, databasetype:="WSS", _ databasename:="http://example/WSSSite", _ objecttype:=acTable, Source:="Customers", _ Destination:="Customer List", structureonly:=False Martin Reid wrote: >All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I >think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the >new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in >talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the >Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but >thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer >be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear >the new engine woudl work with JET. > >I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want >to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and >have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up >what they think. > > >Martin > > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Susan Harkins" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:38 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > >>Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what >>we've >>known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for >>backward >>compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I >>don't >>want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new >>technologies when what I've got works just fine. >> >>Susan H. >> >>Hi Susan >> >>Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? >> >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 18:31:31 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:31:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <20050927225024.LZIC27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4339D653.5040800@shaw.ca> Ah you may have to start progamming for one of these http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/5/palm.mspx Microsoft Mobile on a TREO phone Coming in 2006, might supplant the Blackberry Susan Harkins wrote: >The tools that have been promised forever or now on ice. > >Susan H. > >I guess you will also need this little thingamjig, it was released later. > >Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Express Manager - Community Technology Preview >(CTP) June 2005 >http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=C7A5CC62-EC54-4299- >85FC-BA05C181ED55&displaylang=en > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 18:42:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:42:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Work only. If I were building reports at home, I'd just use CR, whether I liked it or not. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL But Active reports is expensive. Do you use it for personal use or at work? Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Crystal Reports ships with VS.Net but many of us use 3rd party reporting tools. Our office uses DataDynamics' ActiveReports, which is very reminiscent of Access reports and even has a wizard to convert Access reports. Still takes some hand work, but not bad. Charlotte Foust -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 18:48:25 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 18:54:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:54:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INH00B2ZST8SO@l-daemon> Message-ID: <002301c5c3be$df0d23b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites can be skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just added a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, but I am not yet up on how to do it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi John: Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the same??? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time commitments. The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have .NET available at your fingertips. I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site I am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules that "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net in this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a download. I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, <> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by the time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost quite a few more. Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and Access->certainly not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Sep 27 18:56:50 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:56:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339C681.4080505@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <002401c5c3bf$20ec63e0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I have a printed ticket hanging on my fridge. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL They will usually send you a reminder a day or two beforehand , in Canada, they get you to printout a barcoded admission ticket. John W. Colby wrote: >Well, I'm registered. Now I just have to remember to go. The end of >November is a bit of a ways out for this tired old brain. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:29 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >LOL. Trying to get registered for the one here in Hartford (not a >major, the nearest of which is over in Boston). > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >http://folding.stanford.edu/ > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:19 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hit send to soon. I'm going to the one in Atlanta. Anyone else going? > >Bobby > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Sep 27 18:58:40 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:58:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: <4339DCB0.8080106@shaw.ca> Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) >>> >>> > >What? There's a difference?? > >Charlotte > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Sep 27 19:22:59 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:22:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050927183857.JQHD19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <49k06j$894947@mxip28a.cluster1.charter.net> I will drink to that, Susan. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what we've known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for backward compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I don't want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new technologies when what I've got works just fine. Susan H. Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Sep 27 19:24:13 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:24:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001e01c5c397$f00e3c70$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <4e8oko$1garopt@mxip10a.cluster1.charter.net> Definitely NOT prepared for this.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 12:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Sep 27 19:25:32 2005 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:25:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050927224200.LVSH27562.ibm59aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4cin1p$1ftlsal@mxip18a.cluster1.charter.net> OK...I'm really GLAD I'm technically retired. I've done my learning curve...no more, pleeeeeeeeeease.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Sep 27 19:34:56 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:34:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Are you saying there's no difference between computer users and mushrooms?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) >>> >>> > >What? There's a difference?? > >Charlotte > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From drboz at pacbell.net Tue Sep 27 19:48:55 2005 From: drboz at pacbell.net (Don Bozarth) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:48:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: <001701c5c3c6$682f2bf0$6b01a8c0@don> hmmmm Keep them in the dark and feed them bulls**t???? Don B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Are you saying there's no difference between computer users and > mushrooms?? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. > > Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >>>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >>> > >>> > > > >What? There's a difference?? > > > >Charlotte > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > > > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I > > >now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > > >Susan H. > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Sep 27 23:29:13 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:29:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFD@main2.marlow.com> Yes, you can get away with telling a child to stand in the corner! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [SMTP:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Sep 27 23:35:17 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:35:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFE@main2.marlow.com> Make that two, bartender! I still use VB 6.0, ASP, and Access 97. I don't think I'll ever use anything other then an Access 97 .mdb for database use with a VB or ASP front end. I've played around with VB.NET, and honestly, I prefer VB 6. I like the inheritance, but that doesn't make up for the framework, C like compile processes, etc. I program almost everything with Classes anyhow, so VB.NET was not that much change in how I program, just had to get used to the different syntax. Thought some things were a bit stupid, though. There were tooltips for some things that should have just autocorrected. Drew -----Original Message----- From: Dian [SMTP:nd500_lo at charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I will drink to that, Susan. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Wouldn't know how -- I have been told that it's a huge break from what we've known up till now. I don't know how much they will maintain Jet for backward compatibility. I am probably dead to Access except for old stuff -- I don't want to keep this up -- I'm tired of being constantly forced into new technologies when what I've got works just fine. Susan H. Hi Susan Couldn't you enlightened people be a bit more informative please? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Wed Sep 28 02:09:07 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:09:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <000401c5c384$3b815c00$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 27 September 2005 17:55 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch I will go to the one in Minneapolis on Dec 14. Anyone else? Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Can you point to a web page to sign up or that says that, or even a list of such launch sites? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL As an aside, if you attend one of the VS 2005/SQL Server 2005 launches in November, you get a free copy of VS 2005 Pro and SLQ Server (the regular edition). As far as can ascertain, these are unrestricted copies. Bobby -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 28 06:35:13 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:35:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C176@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF030@ADGSERVER> I have not seen anything. I'll let you know id I do. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland (ISHARP) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 28 06:53:00 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:53:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C198@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF031@ADGSERVER> Here ya go! http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windowsserversystem/launchtour/default.mspx Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch I have not seen anything. I'll let you know id I do. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland (ISHARP) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? From paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk Wed Sep 28 07:05:01 2005 From: paul.hartland at isharp.co.uk (Paul Hartland (ISHARP)) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:05:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF031@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: Thanks Bobby....What would I do without this group at times -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: 28 September 2005 12:53 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Here ya go! http://www.microsoft.com/uk/windowsserversystem/launchtour/default.mspx Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch I have not seen anything. I'll let you know id I do. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hartland (ISHARP) Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 3:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] VS 2005 Launch Anyone know where I may get details of any UK launch events ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prosoft6 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 07:26:54 2005 From: prosoft6 at hotmail.com (Julie Reardon-Taylor) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:26:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Syracuse, NY on 11/8. Julie Reardon-Taylor PRO-SOFT OF NY, INC. 44 Public Square Suite #5 Watertown, NY 13601 Phone/Fax: (315) 785-0319 www.pro-soft.net From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 07:41:45 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:41:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339DCB0.8080106@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050928124222.ZTVI3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sounds about right -- all the children's authors I know have "real" jobs -- can't make a living writing for children. :( Susan H. Hmm. Beatrix Potter was a frustrated mycologist. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 07:41:46 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:41:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050928124229.ZTWK3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Too funny -- well, the publishers think there's a difference and my bank account certainly KNOWS there's a difference. Susan H. >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 07:44:38 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:44:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: ..lol ...you mean you've not trained your users properly? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Yes, you can get away with telling a child to stand in the corner! > > ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [SMTP:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > What? There's a difference?? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Get out now while the gettin's good. > > ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's > why I > now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 07:48:32 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:48:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <002301c5c3be$df0d23b0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for something I knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites can > be > skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for > getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just > added > a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, > but > I am not yet up on how to do it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi John: > > Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the > same??? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have high > speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the books. > .Net > is far and away the most powerful development framework I have ever seen. > With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, huge time > commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, and > indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely > that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS "greatest thing > since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but it > is > also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you register on > my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call a > "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. Pass in > a > data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of that class type > containing all the data from a record in the table. As long as your > properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much stuff > just ready to use, and so much else already available out there for a > download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether we > like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for alternatives > to > Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a > serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and > Access->certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not > in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved > so > far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I > don't know how long this will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot > help but think that inside Microsoft, various powers think of this as > heresy, and tolerate it the same way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will > continue, but minimally. (This is pure conjecture; I don't know a soul > within MS in any position of power or influence, so take my words as pure > conjecture from a recipient of their software and nothing more.) I am > slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Sep 28 08:13:36 2005 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:13:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <123701F54509D9119A4F00D0B7473490EA5CFF@main2.marlow.com> Not enough round rooms to tell em to stand in a corner in..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [SMTP:dejpolsys at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL ..lol ...you mean you've not trained your users properly? :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Yes, you can get away with telling a child to stand in the corner! > > ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [SMTP:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 6:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > What? There's a difference?? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Get out now while the gettin's good. > > ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's > why I > now write more for children than for computer users. ;) > > Susan H. > > -- > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 28 08:32:27 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:32:27 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 08:40:55 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:40:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050928124229.ZTWK3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <003601c5c432$40600290$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Which pays more? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Too funny -- well, the publishers think there's a difference and my bank account certainly KNOWS there's a difference. Susan H. >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 08:43:02 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:43:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003701c5c432$8bdbe4a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> William, It is not all up there yet, in fact I am just starting that phase. I am requiring a registration to get at that stuff though. Simple name/email and you are in. I need to somehow communicate that on the main page or header area. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for something I knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites > can > be > skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for > getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just > added > a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, > but > I am not yet up on how to do it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi John: > > Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the > same??? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have > high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the > books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I > have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, > huge time commitments. > > > The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, > and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears > unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS > "greatest thing since > sliced bread" projects have. > > Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - > www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire > framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but > it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you > register on my > site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of course). > The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, > uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, > forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. > > DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can > (once > you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the > content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in > your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to > menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new > site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not > content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) > you have .NET available at your fingertips. > > I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web > site > I > am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom > program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing > relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these > congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple of > pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database (SQL > Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since DNN > is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules > that > "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. > > DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects > (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call > a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. > Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of > that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. > As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. > > This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven > applications > MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net > in > this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! > > Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much > stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there > for a download. > > I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my > way. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Arthur, > > <> > > No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether > we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for > alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact > that it was > (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access > offered > (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not > being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). > > As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. > I've > already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by > the > time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have lost > quite a few more. > > Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as > a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access > development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal > interest to > MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, > they > always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various > eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD > development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But it > is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine > compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access > development > team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an > uphill > battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much > more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, > books > etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it > can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing > line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to > port > Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate > was, > so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to > Clipper, > which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no > one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an > Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and > Access->certainly > not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are > not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has > achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak > directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a > long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various > powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they > tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure > conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or > influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of > their software and nothing more.) I am slowly > learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I > would > much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers EXEs > rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the > cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So > here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking > more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real expertise > and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of > things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Wed Sep 28 08:56:54 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:56:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB6772337889@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Well, if she writes everything she knows about wizards she might make a fortune.... Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Which pays more? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Too funny -- well, the publishers think there's a difference and my bank account certainly KNOWS there's a difference. Susan H. >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 08:59:51 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:59:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003601c5c432$40600290$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050928135950.PIZU2378.ibm68aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh technical stuff -- easily -- at least until you're somebody in children's literature -- but mostly because the competition isn't as stiff. I compete with just a few people and my publishing contacts are old and established. Children's literature is different -- everybody wants to do it and publishers have their pick of the litters. To make a living, you have to be very, very good or versatile -- I'm working on the latter, having written articles for Weekly Reader and now working on some historical non-fiction books (which must match the state curriculum standards) -- just to get the credentials. Sprinkled in with that is also some basic human interest type stuff -- when I can think of a good story -- but it's all non-fiction -- I am not the next JK Rowlings. :) There are some authors out there making a living just from writing for children (that includes everything from picture books to young adult novels and nonfiction), but not very many. I've been writing freelance since 1998, and done well enough for myself, but I'm just tired of jumping through all of MS's hoops. The truth is, I can't jump through them anymore -- I've reached my hoop saturation point. :) When I listen to you guys talk about all the different technologies, etc. I just get a headache. I don't want to work that hard anymore. If you love it, that's different -- but I've just been making a living at something I could do -- I'm not passionate about computers. :) Susan H. Which pays more? From dejpolsys at hotmail.com Wed Sep 28 09:03:34 2005 From: dejpolsys at hotmail.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:03:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <003701c5c432$8bdbe4a0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: ..sheesh :( ..I hate that registration stuff ...now I have to remember something and that's getting harder and harder every year :( ..but I'm in ...so what's taking you so long, eh? ...kids keeping you up :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > William, > > It is not all up there yet, in fact I am just starting that phase. I am > requiring a registration to get at that stuff though. Simple name/email > and > you are in. I need to somehow communicate that on the main page or header > area. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for something I > knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >> LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites >> can >> be >> skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for >> getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just >> added >> a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, >> but >> I am not yet up on how to do it. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Lawrence >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Hi John: >> >> Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the >> same??? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >> Colby >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >>>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have >> high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the >> books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I >> have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, >> huge time commitments. >> >> >> The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into .net, >> and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it appears >> unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other MS >> "greatest thing since >> sliced bread" projects have. >> >> Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - >> www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire >> framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but >> it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you >> register on my >> site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing in it yet of >> course). >> The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, >> uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, >> forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. >> >> DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You can >> (once >> you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) just edit the >> content that you see on a web page directly in a text editor, on-line in >> your site. You can add / delete pages, already (automatically) linked to >> menu items, or submenu items. Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new >> site is pretty ... Uhh... "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not >> content, are not process. And of course, if you need process (a program) >> you have .NET available at your fingertips. >> >> I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web >> site >> I >> am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom >> program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing >> relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these >> congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple >> of >> pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database >> (SQL >> Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since >> DNN >> is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules >> that >> "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. >> >> DNN already has code for building what they call CommonBusinessObjects >> (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call >> a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. >> Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of >> that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. >> As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. >> >> This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven >> applications >> MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power of .NET (ASP.Net >> in >> this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! >> >> Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much >> stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there >> for a download. >> >> I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my >> way. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Arthur, >> >> <> >> >> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether >> we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for >> alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact >> that it was >> (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access >> offered >> (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short comings (not >> being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). >> >> As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. >> I've >> already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience and by >> the >> time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have >> lost >> quite a few more. >> >> Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >> Fuller >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as >> a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access >> development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal >> interest to >> MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's kits, >> they >> always have and always will regard it as a toy, as compared (in various >> eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD >> development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. But >> it >> is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a genuine >> compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the Access >> development >> team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an >> uphill >> battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much >> more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, >> books >> etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it >> can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing >> line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to >> port >> Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate >> was, >> so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to >> Clipper, >> which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be >> no >> one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an >> Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and >> Access->certainly >> not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are >> not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team has >> achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak >> directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a >> long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various >> powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they >> tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure >> conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >> influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of >> their software and nothing more.) I am slowly >> learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that way. I >> would >> much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers >> EXEs >> rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the >> cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So >> here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking >> more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >> expertise >> and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of >> things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 09:24:40 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:24:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003801c5c438$5cec2640$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, yea those kids... I have been wanting to rebuild my site forever. I finally discovered this DotNetNuke thing which is really quite an awesome piece of work IMHO, so I decided to use it for a client site I am building. When I saw how easy it is to get the structure built and plain text content up I decided to go do it for my site as well. But of course I have to make a living as well. As for remembering stuff... I use FireFox which just memorizes the username / password. I type in j and it knows about jcolby and the password I used for THAT site. No more memory. Of course if this computer dies I am screwed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL ..sheesh :( ..I hate that registration stuff ...now I have to remember something and that's getting harder and harder every year :( ..but I'm in ...so what's taking you so long, eh? ...kids keeping you up :) William ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > William, > > It is not all up there yet, in fact I am just starting that phase. I > am requiring a registration to get at that stuff though. Simple > name/email and you are in. I need to somehow communicate that on the > main page or header area. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > ..and where oh where are your downloads? ...I went looking for > something I knew you had the other night and lo! ...t'was all gone :( > > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >> LOL, they are all starting to look like DotNetNuke sites. DNN sites >> can be >> skinned but DNN provides specific functionality and so little icons for >> getting at that functionality are appearing in the interface. I just >> added >> a free skin to my site which changes it a little bit. More can be done, >> but >> I am not yet up on how to do it. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Lawrence >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:27 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Hi John: >> >> Is it my imagination but are all the new sites starting to look the >> same??? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >> Colby >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 7:58 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >>>Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Yes, I have to agree. And to be quite honest I like it - IF you have >> high speed internet to assist in looking up stuff that isn't in the >> books. .Net is far and away the most powerful development framework I >> have ever seen. With power comes... Confusion, steep learning curves, >> huge time commitments. >> >> >> The nice part is that MS has poured so much time and energy into >> .net, and indeed appears to be using it themselves in-house, that it >> appears unlikely that it will ever just "go away" as so many other >> MS "greatest thing since sliced bread" projects have. >> >> Just an aside, I brought up my new web site last week - >> www.colbyconsulting.com. It uses DotNetNuke (DNN) which is an entire >> framework for building web sites. DotNetNuke is an awesome tool, but >> it is also an entire ASP.net application in it's own right. If you >> register on my site, you will have access to a Forums page (nothing >> in it yet of course). >> The forums module is just a snap-in to DNN. I went out and found it, >> uploaded it, inserted a page and dropped the module on the page. Voila, >> forums in my site for whatever I think is useful to discuss. >> >> DNN is about separating appearance from content from process. You >> can (once you come up to speed, which in this case isn't THAT hard) >> just edit the content that you see on a web page directly in a text >> editor, on-line in your site. You can add / delete pages, already >> (automatically) linked to menu items, or submenu items. >> Theoretically you can skin it (yea, my new site is pretty ... Uhh... >> "Functional looking" so far). Skins are not content, are not >> process. And of course, if you need process (a program) you have >> .NET available at your fingertips. >> >> I am looking at developing a set of custom modules for DNN for a web >> site I >> am trying to get happening - www.StarfishKatrina.com . I need a custom >> program to allow congregations to volunteer to assist families needing >> relocation assistance, and which allow aid organizations to find these >> congregations. The web site is just the middle man but I need a couple >> of >> pages to allow these two entities to enter themselves into a database >> (SQL >> Server is available to DNN modules, and perhaps MySQL as well). Since >> DNN >> is ASP.Net based, and has a well defined interface for building modules >> that >> "snap-in" to DNN, I hope(!) that doing this will be on the trivial side. >> >> DNN already has code for building what they call >> CommonBusinessObjects >> (CBOs) which are just the data classes for a table, and what they call >> a "hydrator" that loads instances of ANY CBO from a matching table. >> Pass in a data reader and a class type and back comes an instance of >> that class type containing all the data from a record in the table. >> As long as your properties match the field names, it just works. >> >> This kind of stuff makes the process of developing data driven >> applications MUCH easier, and can exist exactly because of the power >> of .NET (ASP.Net in >> this case) being leveraged by the DNN developers being leveraged by ME! >> >> Yea, .Net is tough to get into but it is just so powerful, so much >> stuff just ready to use, and so much else already available out there >> for a download. >> >> I am in no way "there" yet, or even close, but I am definitely on my >> way. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: >> http://folding.stanford.edu/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Dettman >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 10:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Arthur, >> >> <> >> >> No, I just think your being realistic. .Net is here to say whether >> we like it or not. About four years ago I started looking for >> alternatives to Access and settled on Visual Fox Pro despite the fact >> that it was >> (supposedly) "on it's last legs", but it gave me some of what Access >> offered (integrated DB engine) and yet got around some of the short >> comings (not being able to produce EXE or do n-Tier designs). >> >> As a result, I ignored .Net. I think I'm going to pay for that now. >> I've already lost one consulting job because I had no .Net experience >> and by the >> time I do finally manage to get my arms around it, I'll probably have >> lost >> quite a few more. >> >> Like it or not, .Net is here to stay it seems. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur >> Fuller >> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:05 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> >> >> Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access >> as a serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the >> Access development team to make it one. The bottom line (of principal >> interest to >> MS) is that Access ships with Office, and despite the developer's >> kits, they always have and always will regard it as a toy, as >> compared (in various >> eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. We are the underground. We like RAD >> development and the Access development team keeps helping us do it. >> But it is not in the commercial interests of MS either to provide a >> genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. I deeply admire the >> Access development >> team (knowing none of them personally). My take is that they fight an >> uphill >> battle to keep this product in contention; but MS the corporation is much >> more interested in the money it can make from .NET software, seminars, >> books >> etc. This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it >> can do things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing >> line. There will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to >> port >> Access apps to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate >> was, >> so long ago, when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to >> Clipper, >> which revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be >> no >> one to step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an >> Access->.NET converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and >> Access->certainly >> not abandoned by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we >> are not in the MS mainstream. The greatest thing the Access dev team >> has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP project format, which can speak >> directly to SQL. I don't know how long this will live. I hope for a >> long time. But I cannot help but think that inside Microsoft, various >> powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same way they >> tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is pure >> conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >> influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of >> their software and nothing more.) I am slowly learning .NET. Only >> because the market seems certain to go that way. I would >> much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that delivers >> EXEs >> rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see that in the >> cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the table. So >> here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and thinking >> more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >> expertise >> and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side of >> things. Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Wed Sep 28 09:39:02 2005 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:39:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 09:48:58 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:48:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <20050928144858.BOPF3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... =======Business is certainly part of it Alan -- has to be. MS is just like any other business. Beyond that -- things change. I think some expect technology to uncomplicate our lives, and to get easier and easier. But realistically, technology is a snowball -- it doesn't make things easier, it just grows -- and you grow with it or you find some specialized niche. For years, my niche was writing and applications development. The snowball's just gotten too big and I want off. For every me that jumps off, dozens are jumping on. Susan h. From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 09:51:44 2005 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:51:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39cb22f3050928075113204b68@mail.gmail.com> Jeff, Wauwatosa? I only saw the usual Chicago and Minneapolis sites for locations near us. Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On 9/27/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Sep 28 10:00:39 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:00:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" Quite ambitious, I know ... /gustav >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 28-09-2005 15:59 >>> .. When I listen to you guys talk about all the different technologies, etc. I just get a headache. I don't want to work that hard anymore. If you love it, that's different -- but I've just been making a living at something I could do -- I'm not passionate about computers. :) From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 10:06:45 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:06:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <003901c5c43e$3e275a30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Alan, I submitted a few jobs on punched cards, and programming was NOT much easier back then. Each card had fields (as I am sure you will remember) and you had to make sure you started each piece of the thing in the right column. I remember a friend of mine calling Fortran "Basic with all the good stuff left out". You submitted your job and when it failed you did it again fixing just that one thing... Only it was 24 hours later. You didn't design applications, you designed little functions. GoTos to LINE NUMBERS for crying out loud, instead of functions with strongly typed parameters. The "good old days" those were NOT. Yea, things are MUCH more complex today, but you are building MUCH more powerful applications. In the "good old days" you called people up on the telephone to discuss things. Mucho dinero if they happened to live / work in New York. And you didn't even realize that very talented people like Shamil (living in Russia) even existed, never mind able to teach you stuff you never knew before. Now you jump on chat or (gasp) EMAIL them and wait for a response. Or even VOIP. THINK about building an Access application. Now THINK about building that back in "the good old days". A team of programmers, a million dollars in salary and a million dollars in machine time to build a database that I now build for a few thousand, by myself, for the little 4 person company down the road. And it ran sloooooow as hell, consumed all of the memory, was tough to maintain, and... Hmm... pretty much sucked. Assuming of course you could afford the million bucks for the machine to run it on. Sorry, but the "good old days" pretty much sucked. And finally, in the end, programming in VB.Net (or even C#.net I have to imagine) is not that much more complex than programming in C++ in early 199X. If you wish to ignore the .net framework you can just "roll your own". If you choose to use the .net framework you have at your disposal thousands of classes for everything from dictionaries, lists and queues (yes, I wrote a couple of those "back when" and while it was fun, it WASN'T productive) to sockets for web conversations, and tons of stuff in between. I purchased all of the toolboxes that Borland published for Turbo Pascal as TP was going object oriented. Man I loved it, it was soooo powerful. Looking back on it now it was like tinker toys. I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 28 10:16:29 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:16:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL - Maybe Difficult is Better for Developers? In-Reply-To: <14455335.1127848825665.JavaMail.root@sniper23> Message-ID: <000201c5c43f$9a60b520$0200a8c0@danwaters> Well . . . One of the distinct problems I've had gaining credibility as an Access developer is that Access is 'easy', and because it's 'easy' then unqualified people try to become developers and create havoc (and unplanned work for IT departments). So, if there is more of a distinction between people who use Access and people who develop in Access, then perhaps an Access developer may gain credibility because developing actual applications with Access (or other Office products) will be harder to do. We'll find out next year! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 10:21:48 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 08:21:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at outbaktech.com Wed Sep 28 10:27:24 2005 From: Jeff at outbaktech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:27:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ Middle of the page, Register Now >> (Choose Location) The very last choice for Wisconsin, actually the very last choice in the list. Jeff Barrows MCP, MCAD, MCSD Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI jeff at outbaktech.com ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Steve Erbach Sent: Wed 9/28/2005 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jeff, Wauwatosa? I only saw the usual Chicago and Minneapolis sites for locations near us. Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On 9/27/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > Wauwatosa, Wisconsin on 12/13/2005. Any one else? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 10:53:54 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:53:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050928155354.CNFV3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Sep 28 11:04:42 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:04:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <003901c5c43e$3e275a30$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <20050928160440.PEQ12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. ===========Awesome yes, but change always displaces people. In the late 80's through the 90's, applications development was something that the smarter than ordinary, but not a rocket scientist person could take up, sometimes even teach themselves, and cut out a nice little niche for themselves -- with a little ingenuity and ambition, a regular person could make a decent living. That's getting harder and harder. It isn't just .NET that's changing things -- it's not learning one difficult, but really powerful language -- it's the expectations, no it's the demand, that we be competent in several different areas. It isn't enough to know a lot about something anymore, you must know a lot about several technologies now. It's becoming too much for some people -- people like me. I don't want to work that hard for so little -- just to keep up. If I can't get ahead, I'm in the wrong place. I will never get ahead with .NET/Web/etc. -- I will never be proficient enough. Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 11:27:00 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:27:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: My philosophy is you keep learning until you die, whether you like it or not: you have no choice unless you'd like to die sooner. I am a largely self-taught programmer and I've been making my living at it for years. Now I'm making my living at .Net and learning as I go, just as I always have. Eventually, I'll get tired too. I'm already tired enough so that I don't go home and experiment with new approaches to bring back to the office, but then I'm 61 and I need my sleep! I'm quite happy to let the young turks break new ground while I follow along tidying up after them. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. ===========Awesome yes, but change always displaces people. In the late 80's through the 90's, applications development was something that the smarter than ordinary, but not a rocket scientist person could take up, sometimes even teach themselves, and cut out a nice little niche for themselves -- with a little ingenuity and ambition, a regular person could make a decent living. That's getting harder and harder. It isn't just .NET that's changing things -- it's not learning one difficult, but really powerful language -- it's the expectations, no it's the demand, that we be competent in several different areas. It isn't enough to know a lot about something anymore, you must know a lot about several technologies now. It's becoming too much for some people -- people like me. I don't want to work that hard for so little -- just to keep up. If I can't get ahead, I'm in the wrong place. I will never get ahead with .NET/Web/etc. -- I will never be proficient enough. Susan H. - From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 11:28:18 2005 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:28:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39cb22f305092809283c1715c7@mail.gmail.com> Jeff, Thank you. I went to the main Microsoft launch schedule and it showed the standard 20 or so major locations. I do believe I'll sign up for the one in Wauwatosa, too! Steve On 9/28/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ > > Middle of the page, Register Now >> (Choose Location) > > The very last choice for Wisconsin, actually the very last choice in the > list. > > > Jeff Barrows > MCP, MCAD, MCSD > > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > jeff at outbaktech.com > > From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Sep 28 11:39:07 2005 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:39:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C23F@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF03A@ADGSERVER> The page that this link took you to is one of the virtual launch sites. IIRC, they are from like 1-5 pm, where as the full launch ones are something like 8-5. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jeff, Thank you. I went to the main Microsoft launch schedule and it showed the standard 20 or so major locations. I do believe I'll sign up for the one in Wauwatosa, too! Steve On 9/28/05, Jeff Barrows wrote: > > http://www.msdnevents.com/launch/ > > Middle of the page, Register Now >> (Choose Location) > > The very last choice for Wisconsin, actually the very last choice in the > list. > > > Jeff Barrows > MCP, MCAD, MCSD > > Outbak Technologies, LLC > Racine, WI > jeff at outbaktech.com > > -- From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Sep 28 12:02:39 2005 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:02:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF03A@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30C9C23F@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA30ABF03A@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <39cb22f305092810021a8e4443@mail.gmail.com> Bobby, Right. They're "The Best Of" type presentations. I signed up for the full monty in Chicago and also for the one in Wauwatosa. Steve Erbach On 9/28/05, Bobby Heid wrote: > > The page that this link took you to is one of the virtual launch sites. > IIRC, they are from like 1-5 pm, where as the full launch ones are > something > like 8-5. > > Bobby > From KIsmert at texassystems.com Wed Sep 28 12:44:53 2005 From: KIsmert at texassystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:44:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: >>This translates into constantly changing software >>(and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) >>that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >>software and generate more revenue and profits ... That touches a nerve for me too, Alan. The Art of Programming, the gist of it, has changed very little in decades. That alone takes years to learn. We all must adapt to the normal pace of technological change -- a given in this industry -- which means a constant burden of new things to learn. But what I have trouble accepting is the planned obsolescence of perfectly good languages and platforms. The idea of spending the time to master the intricacies of a particular language, which could take the better part of a decade, only to be told it is not viable by its maker, really rubs me the wrong way. One thing is certain, though: in 30 years, Microsoft will have us working in languages that will be completely unrecognizable to us today. But there will still be Perl programmers. One shining advantage of Open-Source, publicly-spec'd languages is that once they achieve critical mass, you can be assured that your investment in learning will not become obsolete. One small hope: Microsoft has made the C# spec a public standard, which could give it the longevity required to attract a long-term following. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will stick to the standard, or try to subvert it, in the coming years. -Ken PS -- Have a look at Nemerle, a new .NET language that has a C#-like syntax, but offers the convenience of type-inference, along with ML-like functional constructs, and Lisp-like meta-programming. Still early in development, but very intriguing... http://nemerle.org/Main_Page From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 13:21:02 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:21:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509281821.j8SIL5T02712@databaseadvisors.com> The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 13:48:44 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:48:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509281821.j8SIL5T02712@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000e01c5c45d$40fafb80$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> LOL, I too was stunned to see that. "Committed to Access as a developer platform". I'm not sure I have ever seen them state that in writing before. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 28 14:00:15 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:00:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5399537.1127931956268.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000201c5c45e$dd29c800$0200a8c0@danwaters> On the 2nd page of this presentation was this list, under the heading Pro Developers / IT - Whole new class of apps integrated with WSS - Rich and reach interfaces - Server-side manageability - Highly RAD - Utilize managed code - Confident upgrade path Certainly interesting! Any one have any guesses as to what 'Confident Upgrade Path' might mean? Does this mean Access 13 someday, or upgrade to VB.Net/SQL Server, or something else? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 17:32:06 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:32:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <002101c5c39c$4ebde730$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509282232.j8SMW4T17643@databaseadvisors.com> Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 17:34:37 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:34:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <4339C384.2030705@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <200509282234.j8SMYZT18797@databaseadvisors.com> >> JCL REXX IMS DB2 Wasn't JCL the platform upon which you worked oh-so-long-ago? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: September 27, 2005 6:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Actually ADP is being dropped it won't hook into SQL Server 2005 unless the SQL Server 2005 is installed in degraded SQL 2000 mode. You can still uses ADO from an MDB to get at SQL 2005 But SQL DMO is being replaced by SMO. which maybe part of the cause. Mary Chipman mentioned this. I can repost from her blog. I think that MDB format is being dropped from Office 12 actually the whole Jet engine may be replaced by something called ACE. but it will be backward compatible. Maybe something to do with new LINQ language, but this is a wild guess. I just got another call for a contract on JCL REXX IMS DB2, if it is any consolation. I usually go to these sites and ask for access to the IBM Redbooks and the reply is usually,"What??" These guys still think Lyndon Johnson is president. Arthur Fuller wrote: >Frankly I would say that MS (the company) has never regarded Access as a >serious development tool... this despite the efforts of the Access >development team to make it one. >The bottom line (of principal interest to MS) is that Access ships with >Office, and despite the developer's kits, they always have and always will >regard it as a toy, as compared (in various eras) with VB, VC, .NET et. al. >We are the underground. We like RAD development and the Access development >team keeps helping us do it. But it is not in the commercial interests of MS >either to provide a genuine compiler or to provide a .NET porter. >I deeply admire the Access development team (knowing none of them >personally). My take is that they fight an uphill battle to keep this >product in contention; but MS the corporation is much more interested in the >money it can make from .NET software, seminars, books etc. >This is not to slag .NET either. It is a high-quality product and it can do >things Access developers only dream of. But that is the dividing line. There >will never be an MS-authored Access compiler, nor a tool to port Access apps >to .NET. MS is in exactly the same position as Ashton-Tate was, so long ago, >when my friend Brian Russell had a vision that led to Clipper, which >revolutionized the dBASE marketplace back then. There seems to be no one to >step up to the plate and provide an Access-compiler nor an Access->.NET >converter, so here we are, not quite orphaned, and certainly not abandoned >by the Access dev team (mucho kudos to them), but we are not in the MS >mainstream. >The greatest thing the Access dev team has achieved so far, IMO, is the ADP >project format, which can speak directly to SQL. I don't know how long this >will live. I hope for a long time. But I cannot help but think that inside >Microsoft, various powers think of this as heresy, and tolerate it the same >way they tolerate FoxPro. Funding will continue, but minimally. (This is >pure conjecture; I don't know a soul within MS in any position of power or >influence, so take my words as pure conjecture from a recipient of their >software and nothing more.) >I am slowly learning .NET. Only because the market seems certain to go that >way. I would much prefer to stay with Access, and receive a compiler that >delivers EXEs rather than the current run-time solutions, but I don't see >that in the cards, nor see a third party with the skills to bring it to the >table. So here I am, relatively expert at Access, an amateur at .NET, and >thinking more and more and more that I should just concentrate on my real >expertise and become a SQL Server DBA, and to hell with the application side >of things. >Perhaps I am just depressed this evening :) >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 17:55:31 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:55:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Yes, well they never said a developer platform for WHAT!! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL LOL, I too was stunned to see that. "Committed to Access as a developer platform". I'm not sure I have ever seen them state that in writing before. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Sep 28 17:56:59 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:56:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: "Utilize Managed code" implies .Net hooks, but I suspect that's smoke and mirrors with Access merely using dlls created with .Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL On the 2nd page of this presentation was this list, under the heading Pro Developers / IT - Whole new class of apps integrated with WSS - Rich and reach interfaces - Server-side manageability - Highly RAD - Utilize managed code - Confident upgrade path Certainly interesting! Any one have any guesses as to what 'Confident Upgrade Path' might mean? Does this mean Access 13 someday, or upgrade to VB.Net/SQL Server, or something else? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" In particular, these points caught my attention: * Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet * Connects to external data sources * Foundation for richer support of complex data * Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) * Attachments * Append only * Read and write Excel "12" file formats * SharePoint ISAM enhancements * OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) And perhaps most notable for this community, this point from the Summary of said PPT presentation: * Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform In NO way am I saying that this is definitive. These are merely quotes from the PPT presentation. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: September 27, 2005 3:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 17:59:21 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:59:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF28C@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <0INJ00803UJ18T@l-daemon> Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) Still working like hell. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 18:29:51 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:29:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509282232.j8SMW4T17643@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001301c5c484$85fe2640$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> A way cool new interface IS a beast. If it were particularly way cool I could understand it, but it is HUGE, and just replaces the smaller toolbars. B And it is almost impossible to turn off. Your users of your custom databases are going to have that in their face. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 18:35:54 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:35:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050928160440.PEQ12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <0INJ0000UW7UP3@l-daemon> In the 'good-old-days' there were very few knowledgeable people in the world of computers. If you knew anything about PCs and programming you were a God. There were fortunes to be made if you were willing to work hard. (Bought a house cash in two years) It was before every smart person figured out the world of computer was the way to go and they would like be a wealthy God... For every computer job there is 10 really talented computer guys there to do it. No longer do my good looks and delightful personality guarantee me the contract, I have to be able to do it faster, cheaper, with more features and use the latest technology. The main issue I have is that I still have to work long nights with little sleep but I do not recover by ten in the morning anymore. Maybe I should go and manage some of these young brats that are now smarter and faster than I am. To that end I have started a new company and the product(s) should be ready by next year.... then I will retire to some comfortable estate... and continue playing with computers, programming and databases to the end of my days.... OK, I admit it I am addicted :-) .Net is really neat and all you have to learn is XML, JavaScript, MS SQL, C# and ASP.Net and maybe ADO.Net and life is good. Now back to work. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I am not saying that .net isn't a PITA, it definitely is. There is a LOT to learn and a LOT of stuff to discover and figure out, but man it is in a completely different league from anything I have ever seen before. The guys making 800s on their SATs are designing stuff that I can use to make me look like I scored 700s on mine. ;-) I think that is pretty darned awesome. ===========Awesome yes, but change always displaces people. In the late 80's through the 90's, applications development was something that the smarter than ordinary, but not a rocket scientist person could take up, sometimes even teach themselves, and cut out a nice little niche for themselves -- with a little ingenuity and ambition, a regular person could make a decent living. That's getting harder and harder. It isn't just .NET that's changing things -- it's not learning one difficult, but really powerful language -- it's the expectations, no it's the demand, that we be competent in several different areas. It isn't enough to know a lot about something anymore, you must know a lot about several technologies now. It's becoming too much for some people -- people like me. I don't want to work that hard for so little -- just to keep up. If I can't get ahead, I'm in the wrong place. I will never get ahead with .NET/Web/etc. -- I will never be proficient enough. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 28 18:41:20 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:41:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509281821.j8SIL5T02712@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" Joe From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 18:50:25 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:50:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INJ0071AWW20X@l-daemon> That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other miscellaneous environments. ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>This translates into constantly changing software >>(and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) >>that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >>software and generate more revenue and profits ... That touches a nerve for me too, Alan. The Art of Programming, the gist of it, has changed very little in decades. That alone takes years to learn. We all must adapt to the normal pace of technological change -- a given in this industry -- which means a constant burden of new things to learn. But what I have trouble accepting is the planned obsolescence of perfectly good languages and platforms. The idea of spending the time to master the intricacies of a particular language, which could take the better part of a decade, only to be told it is not viable by its maker, really rubs me the wrong way. One thing is certain, though: in 30 years, Microsoft will have us working in languages that will be completely unrecognizable to us today. But there will still be Perl programmers. One shining advantage of Open-Source, publicly-spec'd languages is that once they achieve critical mass, you can be assured that your investment in learning will not become obsolete. One small hope: Microsoft has made the C# spec a public standard, which could give it the longevity required to attract a long-term following. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will stick to the standard, or try to subvert it, in the coming years. -Ken PS -- Have a look at Nemerle, a new .NET language that has a C#-like syntax, but offers the convenience of type-inference, along with ML-like functional constructs, and Lisp-like meta-programming. Still early in development, but very intriguing... http://nemerle.org/Main_Page -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 28 19:07:11 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Sep 28 20:12:03 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:12:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <8805823.1127950346079.JavaMail.root@sniper23> Message-ID: <000001c5c492$cdcf6e80$0200a8c0@danwaters> John - But wouldn't you expect to be able to control these new toolbars (I think they're call ribbons) in code? Just like I can control toolbars ins AXP, I should be able to hide ribbons, and create my own. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL A way cool new interface IS a beast. If it were particularly way cool I could understand it, but it is HUGE, and just replaces the smaller toolbars. B And it is almost impossible to turn off. Your users of your custom databases are going to have that in their face. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 20:12:37 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:12:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290112.j8T1CXT18328@databaseadvisors.com> Put "gift", value "$2". That should do it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 8:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 20:14:19 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:14:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290114.j8T1EFT18893@databaseadvisors.com> You are one vicious bitch, Charlotte :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 27, 2005 7:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Wed Sep 28 20:14:56 2005 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:14:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200509270540.j8R5eKT21316@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: On 28 Sep 2005 at 19:07, John Bartow wrote: > I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs > or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" > down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? Put gift on the customs tag. It'll clear customs with no duties or taxes. Maybe even gift wrap it for the authentic look :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We are Microsoft. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Sep 28 20:31:29 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:31:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <001401c5c495$844da760$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yes John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, entitled: Developing Collaboration Solutions With Access 12 And Windows SharePoint Services "v3" Joe -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 28 20:48:36 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:48:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290148.j8T1maT00612@databaseadvisors.com> Ain't gonna happin'! :o))) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Maybe even gift wrap it for the authentic look :) From john at winhaven.net Wed Sep 28 20:48:36 2005 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:48:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290112.j8T1CXT18328@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290148.j8T1mbT00615@databaseadvisors.com> OK -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Put "gift", value "$2". That should do it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 8:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 21:44:56 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:44:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INJ00803UJ18T@l-daemon> Message-ID: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and >Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April >Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED >???" > >I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 >keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe >computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see >if our "job" >had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back >then. > >Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. >This >translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies >with >STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >software and generate more revenue and profits ... > >Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to >writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly >changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to >"web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The >Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, >has >spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for >delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, >he will have found a job elsewhere ...) > >I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve >Ballmer >that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT >and >not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time >absorbing all this "new" technology? > >Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now >write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:05:00 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:05:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290304.j8T34vT31954@databaseadvisors.com> Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:06:32 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:06:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050928155354.CNFV3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <200509290306.j8T36RT00388@databaseadvisors.com> I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: September 28, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 22:08:52 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:08:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0INK00G2362TIM@l-daemon> That a valid point... and a nice farm it is. :-) He has also managed to introduce children's books as well. Apparently he can do it all at once!! You just have to admire someone like that. (We have been looking at places in Sooke... sorry inside joke for Vancouver Island people only.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. >Jim From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:10:04 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:10:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509290309.j8T39xT01770@databaseadvisors.com> And your problem with that route would be? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL "Utilize Managed code" implies .Net hooks, but I suspect that's smoke and mirrors with Access merely using dlls created with .Net. Charlotte Foust From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:11:07 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:11:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INJ00803UJ18T@l-daemon> Message-ID: <200509290311.j8T3B2T02546@databaseadvisors.com> Actually I was thinking of selling everything and buying a women's shoe store LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 28, 2005 6:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) Still working like hell. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED ???" I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see if our "job" had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back then. Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. This translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more software and generate more revenue and profits ... Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to "web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, has spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, he will have found a job elsewhere ...) I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT and not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time absorbing all this "new" technology? Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Get out now while the gettin's good. ========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 22:14:22 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:14:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <0INK00H3L6BZXL@l-daemon> ...and to follow-up from the last comment with the last comment from the LarkFarm: http://www.larkfarm.com/journal/2005/September/09262005.htm Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:39 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >All this speculation about the future of Access, .NET, SQL, Office (and >Microsoft's "plans" for us ...), makes me think of the lyrics from April >Lavigne's song: "Why'd you have to go and make things so COMPLICATED >???" > >I remember a time when we "wrote code" using a thing called an IBM 029 >keypunch machine and we submitted "jobs" to an IBM 360 mainframe >computer thru a "card reader" machine. We came back the next day to see >if our "job" >had executed. Believe it or not, "programming" was MUCH easier back >then. > >Now, Bill Gates has to keep (or try to keep) his shareholders happy. >This >translates into constantly changing software (and "new" technologies >with >STEEP learning curves) that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >software and generate more revenue and profits ... > >Susan says that she's sick of it and has decided to devote her time to >writing children's books rather than trying to keep up with constantly >changing software. Here on my job we are facing a monumental task to >"web enable" a major component of a large environmental database. The >Senior Systems Analyst, fearing a major disaster and a P.O.'d customer, >has >spent most of the past year coming up with one reason after another for >delaying the conversion. (I imagine by the time he runs out of excuses, >he will have found a job elsewhere ...) > >I wonder if the thought has ever occurred to Bill Gates and Steve >Ballmer >that not everyone scored a perfect 800 on the math portion of the SAT >and >not ALL of us want to spend every available minute of our "spare" time >absorbing all this "new" technology? > >Alan "Old Codger" Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 5:42 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Get out now while the gettin's good. > >========I've been gearing up for this for a long, long time. It's why I >now >write more for children than for computer users. ;) > >Susan H. > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:14:27 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:14:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001301c5c484$85fe2640$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <200509290314.j8T3EMT03688@databaseadvisors.com> Come one, JWC... you are not being fair. I have seen some of your apps, and we are both in approximately the same place: 300+ tables, 500+ queries, 500+ forms, etc. You cannot manage a UI (using previous conventions) that handles this kind of load. I think that the new UI may be a way cool method to delivering this sort of complexity. I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time), but I am thinking that these smart UI objects are just the ticket to let me deliver a complex app with a minimum of fuss. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 28, 2005 7:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL A way cool new interface IS a beast. If it were particularly way cool I could understand it, but it is HUGE, and just replaces the smaller toolbars. B And it is almost impossible to turn off. Your users of your custom databases are going to have that in their face. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Is there some beast that you detect here when I just sense a way-cool new UI? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: September 27, 2005 3:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yip, that would be da beast. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:16:02 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:16:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <200509290315.j8T3FvT04630@databaseadvisors.com> Yes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: September 28, 2005 7:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:20:32 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INJ0071AWW20X@l-daemon> Message-ID: <200509290320.j8T3KQT05957@databaseadvisors.com> I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about it). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other miscellaneous environments. ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>This translates into constantly changing software >>(and "new" technologies with STEEP learning curves) >>that never end - just so Mr. Gates can sell more >>software and generate more revenue and profits ... That touches a nerve for me too, Alan. The Art of Programming, the gist of it, has changed very little in decades. That alone takes years to learn. We all must adapt to the normal pace of technological change -- a given in this industry -- which means a constant burden of new things to learn. But what I have trouble accepting is the planned obsolescence of perfectly good languages and platforms. The idea of spending the time to master the intricacies of a particular language, which could take the better part of a decade, only to be told it is not viable by its maker, really rubs me the wrong way. One thing is certain, though: in 30 years, Microsoft will have us working in languages that will be completely unrecognizable to us today. But there will still be Perl programmers. One shining advantage of Open-Source, publicly-spec'd languages is that once they achieve critical mass, you can be assured that your investment in learning will not become obsolete. One small hope: Microsoft has made the C# spec a public standard, which could give it the longevity required to attract a long-term following. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will stick to the standard, or try to subvert it, in the coming years. -Ken PS -- Have a look at Nemerle, a new .NET language that has a C#-like syntax, but offers the convenience of type-inference, along with ML-like functional constructs, and Lisp-like meta-programming. Still early in development, but very intriguing... http://nemerle.org/Main_Page -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:21:16 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:21:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290007.j8T07AT23688@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290321.j8T3LBT06576@databaseadvisors.com> Place a value of $1 on the package. That should do it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 8:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Arthur, I once sent some magazines to Canada and they got held up for tariffs or something. The fellow later told me I should have put "documents" down instead. Is it OK to put "software" on a package to Canada? John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Sep 28 22:22:47 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:22:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set In-Reply-To: <200509290148.j8T1maT00612@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <200509290322.j8T3MhT07156@databaseadvisors.com> Aw, I was hoping to have some pretty giftwrap to tear open. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: September 28, 2005 9:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC Driver set Ain't gonna happin'! :o))) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Maybe even gift wrap it for the authentic look :) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 23:20:10 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:20:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000001c5c486$2165ab20$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <433B6B7A.5080007@shaw.ca> XML ain't frightening of course the villagers may show up with pitchforks. Here is a simple method for using Access Smart Tags to display either Google maps or weather given a zip code. if you need it for certain european areas just add or pop the (Text } address field comma seperated via a http post web service it takes two minutes to add this to an Access Mdb Turnoff MS Word Access or Outlook, that may have the smatrtag engine open Make sure that all Microsoft Office XP or Office 2003 applications are closed. Cut and Paste these two xml files below with NotePad into indicated paths and save as UTF-8 format not ANSI. Now in Access Select the Tools -> Options... menu to open the Options dialog window. Select the "Forms/Reports" tab, then ensure that the "Show Smart Tags on Forms" check box on the bottom left of the window is checked. Select the "Datasheet" tab, then ensure that the "Show Smart Tags on Datasheets" check box on the bottom right of the window is checked. Select the "OK" button to save your changes. Choose Tools: AutoCorrect Options. These also may have certain smarttag options Now on your form in design view select the zip code fileld and embed the smarttag by right clicking on the smarttag field property to build it, the wizard comes up and places the following type of urn in the property "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:smarttags:list" The wizard looks at the dll's and xml files in C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Smart Tag\LISTS\ Hover your mouse pointer over the form zip code field, click the Smart Tag Actions button, and then click Weather by ZIP code. or google map, An IE window will now open with your google map. To link the Customer Name field to the Smart Tag, follow these steps: # Open the client database table in Design View. # Select the Customer Name field row. # Click the Builder button next to the Smart Tags field property in the field properties window. # Click the People check box and click OK. Now, when the customer service representative uses the form to look up a client, a Smart Tag icon will appear next to the client's name. By clicking on the Smart Tag's icon drop-down box, the representative can add the client to his/her Outlook contacts, send the client an e-mail, or schedule a meeting with the client. http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-5875431.html?tag=sc Cut and Paste these two xml files below with NotePad into indicated paths and save as UTF-8 format not ANSI. C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Smart Tag\LISTS\GoogleMap.xml Local Map Your local map report on Google http://msdn.microsoft.com/office Local Map on Google 98052,02134 Map by ZIP code http://maps.google.com/maps?q={TEXT} C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\Smart Tag\LISTS\weather.xml Local Weather Your local weather report on MSNBC. http://msdn.microsoft.com/office Local Weather on MSNBC 98052,02134 Weather by ZIP code http://www.msnbc.com/news/wea_front.asp?ta=y& tab=BW&tp=&czstr={TEXT} Joe Hecht wrote: >So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I >know it or not? > > >The other links were interesting, but particularly on point to this thread >is the last one: http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt, >entitled: > >Developing Collaboration Solutions >With Access 12 And >Windows SharePoint Services "v3" > > >Joe > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jmhecht at earthlink.net Wed Sep 28 23:20:41 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:20:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001401c5c495$844da760$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000901c5c4ad$28054ef0$0a01a8c0@desktop> Which way to the lessons? Joe Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yes John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com So looking at this, am I going to have xml shoved down my troat weither I know it or not? From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Sep 28 23:36:24 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:36:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INK00G2362TIM@l-daemon> Message-ID: <433B6F48.1060109@shaw.ca> It is cheaper up on China Beach Jim Lawrence wrote: >That a valid point... and a nice farm it is. :-) He has also managed to >introduce children's books as well. Apparently he can do it all at once!! >You just have to admire someone like that. > >(We have been looking at places in Sooke... sorry inside joke for Vancouver >Island people only.) > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 7:45 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. > >Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > >>Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. I >>think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You either >>have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up everything >>in the city and move to a farm... :-) >> >>Still working like hell. >>Jim >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 01:34:07 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:34:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509290320.j8T3KQT05957@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <0INK007A9FKXUD@l-daemon> Hi Arthur: There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only had a couple lines of manually enter coding. There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a graphic user input for additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data formatted in XML and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to call-back) and full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be generated by just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. As you learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=48 I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested I can send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about it). -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other miscellaneous environments. ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP :-) Jim From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 02:48:37 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:48:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INK007A9FKXUD@l-daemon> Message-ID: <001701c5c4ca$3b33de20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Jim, Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including ASP.NET 2.0 based... ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become "webisized"... ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until they become really fine tuned for high workload.... ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... Recap: ====== -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect it to be if any at all; - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on them... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Hi Arthur: > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down at > Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... and I am > not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in ASP.Net 2.0, > that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer or SQL Express, > that were created using its RAD interface that only had a couple lines of > manually enter coding. > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across the > internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, set-up an > automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a graphic user input for > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls and > many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data formatted in XML > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to call-back) and > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be generated by > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. As you > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the hilt. > It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that gave the > presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=48 > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested I can > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their on-line > newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner > Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers > Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links > to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to > MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a > way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and > delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a > lot that we can do about it). > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its > various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, > Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other > miscellaneous environments. > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and > PHP :-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 29 03:13:41 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:13:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 8 replication update Message-ID: Hi all If you use Access XP/2002/2003 replication this may be of interest for you: http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;en-us;321076&spid=914&sid=global Files that are included in the Jet replication update Jet40Repl.exe: File Name Version Description --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Msrclr40.dll 4.0.6508.0 Jet Briefcase Reconciler Library Msrecr40.dll 4.0.6508.0 Jet Briefcase Reconciler Resource Library Msrpfs40.dll 4.0.6508.0 File System Transport for Indirect Replication Mstrai40.exe 4.0.6508.0 Transporter for Internet (Indirect) Replication Mstran40.exe 4.0.6508.0 Transporter for Indirect Replication This is a follow up to a previous correction of a memory leak in A2000 replication: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/320803/ /gustav From Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com Thu Sep 29 07:08:50 2005 From: Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com (Lavsa, Rich) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:08:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Message-ID: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02DC37A2@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 08:09:22 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:09:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001701c5c4ca$3b33de20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INK00715XVIGM@l-daemon> Hi Shamil: I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based application, like the following: (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff of 10. Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this point. ...but the features are all there.... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim, Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including ASP.NET 2.0 based... ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become "webisized"... ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until they become really fine tuned for high workload.... ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... Recap: ====== -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect it to be if any at all; - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on them... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Hi Arthur: > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down at > Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... and I am > not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in ASP.Net 2.0, > that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer or SQL Express, > that were created using its RAD interface that only had a couple lines of > manually enter coding. > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across the > internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, set-up an > automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a graphic user input for > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls and > many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data formatted in XML > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to call-back) and > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be generated by > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. As you > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the hilt. > It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that gave the > presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=48 > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested I can > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their on-line > newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured partner > Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that delivers > Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access and the links > to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that hooks directly to > MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the aforementioned book to illustrate a > way to get there, but it doesn't offer the same intimacy. We tried and > delivered as best we could. But it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a > lot that we can do about it). > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and its > various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced Revelation, > Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C and a few other > miscellaneous environments. > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep thinking that > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL and > PHP :-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 08:27:55 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 06:27:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband In-Reply-To: <2A261FF9D5EBCA46940C11688CE872EE02DC37A2@goexchange2.pghcorning.com> Message-ID: <0INK00H0WYQGI2@l-daemon> Hi Rich: It all depends on what the two offices want to share. I have to assume as you are asking within an Access forum that you are looking database solution. The simplest database sharing method, as they have broadband, would be two Access versions, one for each site and a replication between them. If a secure connection is needed there are many VPN clients and hosts that can connect remote sites together. (One recent client used a free Linux type solution assembled from a couple of old discards and another client has a Windows based version but I have never seen the BE, as they are in Texas somewhere.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lavsa, Rich Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 08:29:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <433B5528.9010300@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20050929132918.OVOS12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Working night and day... ;) Susan H. Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. >I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You >either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up >everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 08:29:02 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <200509290306.j8T36RT00388@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20050929132925.OVQI12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Arthur, that's just it. Writing is like any other business. If it takes me a week to produce an article, I can't pay my rent. If it takes me weeks and weeks -- months in the case of .NET -- to become proficient enough to write basic articles, I can't survive. I will never learn .NET well enough to compete with the big dog writers -- and there's really not a market for the basic stuff. In the long run, it is not in my best interest to learn it -- if I were going to develop with it, yes, I probably would move ahead. I'm not. Susan H. I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 08:40:23 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <0INK00715XVIGM@l-daemon> Message-ID: <002101c5c4fb$57cec050$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 companies, there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low cost, functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per minute/hour/ or even month. I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like a good solution for that kind of application. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Shamil: I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based application, like the following: (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff of 10. Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this point. ...but the features are all there.... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim, Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including ASP.NET 2.0 based... ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become "webisized"... ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until they become really fine tuned for high workload.... ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... Recap: ====== -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect it to be if any at all; - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on them... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Hi Arthur: > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > graphic user input for > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > formatted in XML > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > call-back) and > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > generated by > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > As you > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > 8 > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > I can > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > HTH > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > Fuller > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big problem > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > it). > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > thinking that > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > and PHP :-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Sep 29 03:43:37 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:43:37 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Susan That's an idea. Team up with one of our dot net experts ... /gustav >>> artful at rogers.com 29-09-2005 05:06:32 >>> I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: September 28, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 08:57:35 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:57:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050929135746.VSKY27918.ibm62aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> That only works if I know the product well enough myself to spot errors, inaccuracies, that sort of thing. I have to have reasonable knowledge myself. I'll probably give .NET a bit of a whirl -- just to see what happens -- it's an opportunity and it's knocking -- I'll open the door and see what happens, but I doubt that it'll ever take me out to dinner. ;) Susan H. Hi Susan That's an idea. Team up with one of our dot net experts ... From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 09:02:02 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:02:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050929132918.OVOS12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <0INL00D2W0BGIM@l-daemon> It is now 6:30Am here and I have been up since 3:45Am and it is threatening to be a very busy day... but being a contractor a 'power nap' late in the afternoon is a possibility. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Working night and day... ;) Susan H. Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. Jim Lawrence wrote: >Technology is like surfing. You either stay on the crest or wiped out. >I think 20 to 30 years is the maximum anyone can stay top side. You >either have to be willing to work like hell or as a friend did; sell up >everything in the city and move to a farm... :-) > >Still working like hell. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 09:12:00 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:12:00 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <002101c5c4fb$57cec050$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <004301c5c4ff$d9579f30$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... Shamil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 09:11:04 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:11:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INL00F1N0QDZ9@l-daemon> There are some great .Net programmers out there that can write code like a pro but make two grammar and a spelling error in a single line of documentation. That sounds like a Susan solution to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:44 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Susan That's an idea. Team up with one of our dot net experts ... /gustav >>> artful at rogers.com 29-09-2005 05:06:32 >>> I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: September 28, 2005 11:54 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I wouldn't even know where to begin Gustav... Susan H. Hi Susan Judging from the messages of this thread, there could be a market for a title: "From Access to dot Net" "How the developer makes the move without pain" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 09:19:39 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:19:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050929132918.OVOS12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002201c5c500$d436cc00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Yea, but there is a difference between working night and day out of your kitchen and working night and day in the corner office of a high rise that takes you an hour (or two) to get to and from, breathing who knows what, living in a suburb where the statistical likelihood that there is a sex offender living within 5 minutes of you approaches unity, and where the likelihood that said sex offender is unregistered (or lost track of) approaches 50%. Hmmm... Working night and day on the farm sounds pretty good to me. In fact I live about 5 miles from the nearest small town, in an area where there are neighbors but on two acre lots and then woods behind. I love the "country" feel and, while it isn't a farm, it is rural enough to be an entirely different lifestyle. And yes, I work day and night, mostly at home. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Working night and day... ;) Susan H. Mike Gunderloy is still on a farm. From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Sep 29 09:35:32 2005 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:35:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004> <007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c71865cb@winxp> Message-ID: <072301c5c503$0c2b8680$6501a8c0@HAL9004> A.D.: Thanks for the idea. Does this mean that the report preview appears in a pop-up or that there's a pop-up form with the navigation buttons? I already have a custom toolbar with a minimum of controls on it - print, close, & fit. I see that you can add controls for record navigation. They look like the icons I want but of course they don't turn the pages of a report. I'd like to put the page navigation in the toolbar. Is there a way to change the action of those icons you can put on a custom toolbar? Or is there a way to create a custom button for a toolbar that would turn the pages of a report? Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > Rocky, > > Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables > page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps > forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. > > You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. > > Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is > necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the > active one. > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > Code module for Pop Up Form > ================================ > ' Declarations Section > Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long > > Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ > (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long > -------------------------------------------------------- > Private Sub CmdNext_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{DOWN}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{UP}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Activate() > DoCmd.Restore > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Load() > RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd > FrmHdw = Me.hwnd > End Sub > ================================ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 > Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > Dear List: > > I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview > if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom > control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the > screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be > added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more > likely to see them. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhecht at earthlink.net Thu Sep 29 09:45:46 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <20050929132925.OVQI12554.ibm65aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000001c5c504$7ab21780$0a01a8c0@desktop> Susan I would buy basic xml and .net In the words of SGT Schultz, I know nothing. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:29 AM To: access at joe2.endjunk.com; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, that's just it. Writing is like any other business. If it takes me a week to produce an article, I can't pay my rent. If it takes me weeks and weeks -- months in the case of .NET -- to become proficient enough to write basic articles, I can't survive. I will never learn .NET well enough to compete with the big dog writers -- and there's really not a market for the basic stuff. In the long run, it is not in my best interest to learn it -- if I were going to develop with it, yes, I probably would move ahead. I'm not. Susan H. I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 09:52:11 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:52:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c504$7ab21780$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <20050929145209.GUPF16732.ibm57aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, on this subject, Schultz and I have something in common. ;) I thought XML and .NET were free????? It's the tools you pay for, right? Susan H. Susan I would buy basic xml and .net In the words of SGT Schultz, I know nothing. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 09:56:17 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <004301c5c4ff$d9579f30$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <002301c5c505$f1d98540$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> I am working in the VB.Net Express beta and I quite like it. Just different enough that my old VS 2001 apps won't compile but lots of great new functionality. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:03:32 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:03:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Moi?? Surely you jest! I'm a silver-haired grandmother ... Just ask anyone I've terrified lately. ;-} Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You are one vicious bitch, Charlotte :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 27, 2005 7:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >>I now write more for children than for computer users. ;) What? There's a difference?? Charlotte -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:05:29 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:05:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:06:34 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:06:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: My problem is that it doesn't mean that Access programmer can *write* managed code, only that they can use something created in another language. That effectively leaves Access out of the direct .Net world. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL And your problem with that route would be? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL "Utilize Managed code" implies .Net hooks, but I suspect that's smoke and mirrors with Access merely using dlls created with .Net. Charlotte Foust -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 10:08:45 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:08:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A2@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> I just set up a WAN between my home and my warehouse. The linksys VPN routers are cheap, effective and relatively easy to set up.I found Linksys Networks: The Official Guide, Third Edition by Walter Glenn to be equipment specific and have enough of the "theory" to be useful. While this book does not spend enough time on VPN I found whitepapers on the linksys site that were sufficiently detailed. My biggest problem is the upload speed from my residential cable makes running quickbooks from the warehouse slooow. Hopefully you will not encounter this with commercial grade broadband. Go for It and good luck! Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Lavsa, Rich [mailto:Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:15:04 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:15:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: But Susan, there must be a market for articles addressed to all the toe-in-the-water developers who know they're going to have to learn .Net but are afraid to try. Why not earn while you learn? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, that's just it. Writing is like any other business. If it takes me a week to produce an article, I can't pay my rent. If it takes me weeks and weeks -- months in the case of .NET -- to become proficient enough to write basic articles, I can't survive. I will never learn .NET well enough to compete with the big dog writers -- and there's really not a market for the basic stuff. In the long run, it is not in my best interest to learn it -- if I were going to develop with it, yes, I probably would move ahead. I'm not. Susan H. I would suggest beginning with the Access Northwind app and progressing to its .NET equivalent, but I wouldn't want to write that, at least at the rates that my current clients are paying LOL. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 10:17:13 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:17:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Does that mean you can edit code while the app is running? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 10:17:35 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:17:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A3@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> PS I also bought one of the standalone network hardrives for the data storage for a couple of hundred bucks at Fry's. Works great Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband I just set up a WAN between my home and my warehouse. The linksys VPN routers are cheap, effective and relatively easy to set up.I found Linksys Networks: The Official Guide, Third Edition by Walter Glenn to be equipment specific and have enough of the "theory" to be useful. While this book does not spend enough time on VPN I found whitepapers on the linksys site that were sufficiently detailed. My biggest problem is the upload speed from my residential cable makes running quickbooks from the warehouse slooow. Hopefully you will not encounter this with commercial grade broadband. Go for It and good luck! Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Lavsa, Rich [mailto:Rich_Lavsa at pghcorning.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: WAN/VPN network over Broadband Hello all, Since this is OT, Personal emails encouraged rich_lavsa at pghcorning.com Looking for a solution that isn't too expensive and do not know where to begin to look as there are so many different routers, services, software packages, etc.. I do some consulting on the side, and have been approached by one of my clients to tie their offices together. They initially had an outside company come in and set up their internet services as well as their network in each location. Since I've taken over, some things have changed and they now have the NEED to have their 2 office networks be as one. So here is what we have... 2 offices connected with Business Grade Cable Broadband Each office is a Workgroup network, no domain exists. (??might be a problem??) Linksys routers (non wireless) It is a Family Doctors Practice so I don't know if HIPPA comes into play with this once they are sharing information over a public network of if we need dedicated private lines because of HIPPA. Anyway, Since I know only enough to be dangerous to a network this would be my first NETWORK CONSULTING gig, I'm doing it for free as a learning experience for me and for them as they have been great clients for me. So here is my question: 1.) Looking for suggestions/white papers, informational sites, books, anything I can do to learn what I need to know to make this happen. 2.) Advice from someone in the know on how to do this. 3.) What equipment do I need? I'm pretty sure I need a firewall on each end with secure VPN capability, but again I've never set up a site to site VPN and therefore I'm a little apprehensive about buying something and not knowing how to set it up, and later finding out I bought the wrong stuff. So if anyone could lend some advice on what equipment to buy and what brands are good for this vs what experiences you might have had either good or bad. Rich -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 10:18:56 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:18:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050929151854.EIPR11362.ibm66aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Charlotte, I know you have a point -- if you can find the publishers, I'll write them with you. :) Right now, I don't know of any publishers that give a fig about beginning .NET -- I may be missing them though. :) Of course, there's a lot to be said for creating a market. ;) I will think on it. :) Susan H. But Susan, there must be a market for articles addressed to all the toe-in-the-water developers who know they're going to have to learn .Net but are afraid to try. Why not earn while you learn? From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 11:20:26 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:20:26 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: Message-ID: <004f01c5c511$b4949740$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > Does that mean you can edit code while the app is running? Yes, while you are debugging application under VS.NET IDE. There are some limitations of course but after MS Access 2000/XP/2003 "edit&continue" feature where one can't save code if editions are made to the library database and after MS Access 97 crashing once in a while with all or part of the edits made during debugging lost - after all that what VS.NET 2005 Beta 2 have looks very good and this is only the beginning... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Does that mean you can edit code while the app is running? > > Charlotte > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at users.mns.ru] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 7:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > I have just checked VS.2005 Beta 2 - both VB.NET and C# have enabled > rather advanced "Edit&Continue" mode. This is one of the features, which > were missing in previous VS.NET versions and as far as I can guess this > feature alone should result in "chain reaction" of moving developers > from VB6/VBA to VS.NET 2005... > > Shamil > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 11:22:45 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:22:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A6@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> What worries me is that, despite all the words to the contrary, MS doesn't really understand the power user community. Power users are fundamentally task oriented as opposed to application development oriented. This means for any given assignment the user has to weigh completion of the task with the required "investment" in time, etc., to learn new ways to do things faster/more accurately. For example, do I cut and paste numbers from existing spreadsheets to get the boss his numbers or do I learn how to create a pivot table? For those willing to invest the incremental time the rewards can be great because the new skill can lead to immense productivity. The key word is incremental. The typical power user can seldom break away for a week or more to go to seminars, conferences, etc. so the acquisition of new skills is truly small steps at a time. Like the power of compounding, however, over time (years in my case) the acquired skills can add up to something substantial. What I have always liked about Office is the unique blend of capabilities available to all users. It tremendously narrowed the Great Divide between the IT tribe and the User tribe because users could be much more self sufficient. From spreadsheet to pivot table to Access table to wizards and macros to eventually full fledged VBA there exists a power path for those willing to climb it. A power user could actually become a developer if so inclined. My first impression of the new paradigm is that the chasm has widened again and that users will once again be relegated to their little pond. For any functionality outside of that they will have to go hat in hand to the IT powers that be. Shades of the 70s! The user ghetto may be fancier but it is a ghetto all the same. Take the word from someonme who has struggled to achieve self sufficieny for 30 years, starting with the IBM 360. Power users had a fighting chance for independence with tools like VBA. Are they going to invest the time to learn Net? I doubt it. How sad. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Sep 29 11:32:22 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:32:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A6@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <20050929163221.NKWC19429.ibm60aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> What I have always liked about Office is the unique blend of capabilities available to all users. It tremendously narrowed the Great Divide between the IT tribe and the User tribe because users could be much more self sufficient. From spreadsheet to pivot table to Access table to wizards and macros to eventually full fledged VBA there exists a power path for those willing to climb it. A power user could actually become a developer if so inclined. My first impression of the new paradigm is that the chasm has widened again and that users will once again be relegated to their little pond. For any functionality outside of that they will have to go hat in hand to the IT powers that be. Shades of the 70s! The user ghetto may be fancier but it is a ghetto all the same. Take the word from someonme who has struggled to achieve self sufficieny for 30 years, starting with the IBM 360. Power users had a fighting chance for independence with tools like VBA. Are they going to invest the time to learn Net? I doubt it. How sad. ===========This is what I was trying to say yesterday, but I think you've said it much better than I did. Thank you. Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Sep 29 12:48:12 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:48:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at the power users. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL What worries me is that, despite all the words to the contrary, MS doesn't really understand the power user community. Power users are fundamentally task oriented as opposed to application development oriented. This means for any given assignment the user has to weigh completion of the task with the required "investment" in time, etc., to learn new ways to do things faster/more accurately. For example, do I cut and paste numbers from existing spreadsheets to get the boss his numbers or do I learn how to create a pivot table? For those willing to invest the incremental time the rewards can be great because the new skill can lead to immense productivity. The key word is incremental. The typical power user can seldom break away for a week or more to go to seminars, conferences, etc. so the acquisition of new skills is truly small steps at a time. Like the power of compounding, however, over time (years in my case) the acquired skills can add up to something substantial. What I have always liked about Office is the unique blend of capabilities available to all users. It tremendously narrowed the Great Divide between the IT tribe and the User tribe because users could be much more self sufficient. From spreadsheet to pivot table to Access table to wizards and macros to eventually full fledged VBA there exists a power path for those willing to climb it. A power user could actually become a developer if so inclined. My first impression of the new paradigm is that the chasm has widened again and that users will once again be relegated to their little pond. For any functionality outside of that they will have to go hat in hand to the IT powers that be. Shades of the 70s! The user ghetto may be fancier but it is a ghetto all the same. Take the word from someonme who has struggled to achieve self sufficieny for 30 years, starting with the IBM 360. Power users had a fighting chance for independence with tools like VBA. Are they going to invest the time to learn Net? I doubt it. How sad. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Jim Dettman [mailto:jimdettman at earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL For those interested, some tid bits http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF201_Harris.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF302_Dhanjal.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF310_Morton.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF415_Hatoun.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF417_Whitechapel.ppt http://216.55.183.63/pdc2005/slides/OFF307_Covington.ppt Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I saw a demo of the new beta for Office and it is, shall we say, distinctly developer UNFRIENDLY. Actively, in-your-face unfriendly. It is SUPPOSED to be "power user" friendly, although it didn't look particularly friendly at all. A STEEP learning curve because the user interface is just entirely and completely different. Toolbars are gone (kind of replaced by "ribbons"), menus mostly just cause "ribbons" to appear, which take up a lot of screen real estate and are the replacement for toolbars. Code tabs GONE. You are supposed to do things with macros again. Which are the same old macros of old, no error handlers etc. Code modules do exist, and can be used, but I never did see how you got at them. Code is just too much for POWER USERS and users are the focus. Get out now while the gettin's good. My personal feeling is that Office as we know it will be around until MS pulls the plug on support, just because of the natural resistance of companies to change what works. The new Office is just not supposed to be a dev environment any more. Too many security problems, plus it always was a clunky mish mash of old technology that MS is trying desperately to retire. Just my opinion. I will continue to support my clients up through 2003, but beyond that my services (in Office) are actively discouraged by MS and so I will happily move on. We always were second class citizens, I might as well move on to VB.Net and keep my second class citizenship in good standing. Plus with the emphasis on the web, distributed this-n-that and data everywhere, ASP.Net, VB.net and SQL Server is a powerful environment. IMHO, nothing will ever again match the RAD capabilities of Access for database (specifically) application development but once I get up to speed in DotNet I will be in the same league (in some ways) and waaaaaay more capable in many others, so it will be a good tradeoff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL All I can pass on is what I hear and pick up from the web. Personally I think they will make a hugh push towards SharePoint technologies with the new release of Office and that seems to be the direction they are heading in talks we have been having with them re projects in the University. On the Access front I think MS focus is on .NET and XML as data the data stores but thats my own opinion. RE JET I did hear sometime ago that it would no londer be developed but as John says I am sure it wil remain about. I did also hear the new engine woudl work with JET. I do know that when the Access dev team reps where in the UK they didnt want to meet developers but wanted to meet with users. Now that I do know and have an email about somewhere that says that. Maybe that sort of sums up what they think. Martin -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 13:21:55 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 13:21:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A8@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still around I guess I'll be okay. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at the power users. Charlotte Foust *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 14:25:48 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 23:25:48 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A8@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> Message-ID: <001201c5c52b$b414e120$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> <<< Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. >>> This is not MS invention - this is Query-By-Example (concept created by Christopher J. Date(?) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_J._Date) known since 80ies. As one can see VB6/VBA - MS own idea ("every housewife can write applications") are nearly to be dead... C# invented by Anders Hejlberg - Delphi creator. VB.NET is C#-ised VB6... etc. <<< what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? >>> MS are also advancing in horizontal market (Axapta/Navision, MS-CRM etc.) - when they win in this area they will start "attacking" vertical markets - the fate of powerusers and developers for horizontal and even vertical markets isn't looking bright.... I can be wrong of course but MS getting into horizontal markets doesn't look good for me.... We have here in Russia one main accounting application used by most of the companies - this application's promotion in the middle of 90ies was based on huge financial advantage this software owners had. Result: it's rather bad software, there is no real competition in accounting applications' market here... ...and now Axapta/Navision are getting power here - not because they are so good but because big money are behind them and because their deployment is very often accompanied by high "bribes"... Sad story.... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be > anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave > a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really > liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of > syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power > users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a > plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. > I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is > not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to > strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can > create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole > in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still > around I guess I'll be okay. > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at > the power users. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 15:11:58 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 00:11:58 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <002101c5c4fb$57cec050$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000e01c5c532$155536f0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees You're lucky guy, John! :) Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 companies, > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low cost, > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > minute/hour/ or even month. > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like a > good solution for that kind of application. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi Shamil: > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > application, like the following: > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff > of 10. > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Jim, > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > "webisized"... > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > Recap: > ====== > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect > it to be if any at all; > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > them... > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > graphic user input > for > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > formatted in > XML > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > call-back) > and > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > generated > by > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > As > you > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > 8 > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > I > can > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > Fuller > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > problem > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > it). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Lawrence > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > thinking > that > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > and PHP :-) > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Sep 29 15:34:53 2005 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:34:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB67723378A9@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> WOW as soon as I put in my 2 cents a lively discussion ground to a halt. I'm afraid to ask what that means..... Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still around I guess I'll be okay. Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at the power users. Charlotte Foust *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************** The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Sep 29 15:45:38 2005 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:45:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <27954316.1128024829859.JavaMail.root@sniper19> Message-ID: <000601c5c536$c00bc5b0$0200a8c0@danwaters> Shamil, If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by using your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees You're lucky guy, John! :) Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 companies, > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low cost, > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > minute/hour/ or even month. > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like a > good solution for that kind of application. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > Hi Shamil: > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but on > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a 1000 > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > application, like the following: > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a staff > of 10. > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at this > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Jim, > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. users? > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to write > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything else > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may happen > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > "webisized"... > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and MS > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go until > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that "Web > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > Recap: > ====== > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may expect > it to be if any at all; > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" but > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > them... > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > graphic user input > for > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > formatted in > XML > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > call-back) > and > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > generated > by > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > As > you > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > 8 > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > I > can > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > HTH > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > Fuller > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > problem > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > it). > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > Lawrence > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > thinking > that > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > and PHP :-) > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 16:41:31 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:41:31 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <000601c5c536$c00bc5b0$0200a8c0@danwaters> Message-ID: <001101c5c53e$9013ad20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Dan, The problem is that there is no real custom software for small businesses development market here because this economy isn't yet ready for it . The money they are ready to pay for month long work will not be enough for my family's one week living.... ...I can sing like nightingale about how good their business becomes with advanced custom software - they will not buy it for money I need for my family's good living... ...I will keep trying of course but situation in custom software development here will not change to the better in foreseeable future... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Shamil, > > If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by using > your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) > > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees > You're lucky guy, John! :) > > Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they > can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. > > If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your > country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 > companies, > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low > cost, > > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > > minute/hour/ or even month. > > > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like > a > > good solution for that kind of application. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > Hi Shamil: > > > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but > on > > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a > 1000 > > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > > application, like the following: > > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a > staff > > of 10. > > > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at > this > > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > Salakhetdinov > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Jim, > > > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. > users? > > > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to > write > > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything > else > > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may > happen > > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > > "webisized"... > > > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and > MS > > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go > until > > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that > "Web > > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > > > Recap: > > ====== > > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may > expect > > it to be if any at all; > > > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" > but > > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > > them... > > > > Shamil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > > graphic user input > > for > > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > > formatted in > > XML > > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > > call-back) > > and > > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > > generated > > by > > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > > As > > you > > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > > 8 > > > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > > I > > can > > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > > Fuller > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > > problem > > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > > it). > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > Lawrence > > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > > thinking > > that > > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > > and PHP :-) > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 16:49:07 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001201c5c52b$b414e120$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INL00503LXVTD@l-daemon> It is basically the same here, not nearly as comprehensive, but especially for the mid to high PC based market. The product is called ACPAC and many companies have made their fortunes supporting the product. At last look it still only had the 'post' method and old time book-keepers and accountants companies liked it that way. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL <<< Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. >>> This is not MS invention - this is Query-By-Example (concept created by Christopher J. Date(?) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_J._Date) known since 80ies. As one can see VB6/VBA - MS own idea ("every housewife can write applications") are nearly to be dead... C# invented by Anders Hejlberg - Delphi creator. VB.NET is C#-ised VB6... etc. <<< what will be the next step up for power users from wizards in the new paradigm? >>> MS are also advancing in horizontal market (Axapta/Navision, MS-CRM etc.) - when they win in this area they will start "attacking" vertical markets - the fate of powerusers and developers for horizontal and even vertical markets isn't looking bright.... I can be wrong of course but MS getting into horizontal markets doesn't look good for me.... We have here in Russia one main accounting application used by most of the companies - this application's promotion in the middle of 90ies was based on huge financial advantage this software owners had. Result: it's rather bad software, there is no real competition in accounting applications' market here... ...and now Axapta/Navision are getting power here - not because they are so good but because big money are behind them and because their deployment is very often accompanied by high "bribes"... Sad story.... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hale, Jim" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Wizards are great. I've learned alot from them. Same with the query grid > which I think is one of the great MS inventions. Not everything can be > anticipated in advance, however. For this reason I like VBA because it gave > a non IT person like me the ability to great some powerful stuff. I really > liked the Excel macro recorder which gave me my first understanding of > syntax. What I am worried about is what will be the next step up for power > users from wizards in the new paradigm? If it is .Net there is truly a > plexiglass ceiling that will be hard for users like me to break through. > I've reached the point where I have created some classes in VBA but it is > not second nature by any means. So .net sounds like more than I want to > strap on. It appears my lucrative little niche of financial guy that can > create apps is going away. Oh well. Time for me to retire to my hidie-hole > in Costa Rica while the world goes to hell. As long as Tx holdem is still > around I guess I'll be okay. > Jim Hale > > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > That's why MS is investing so heavily in wizards, Jim. They're aimed at > the power users. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > *********************************************************************** > The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or > privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or > other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and > delete the material from any computer. As a recipient of this email, > you are responsible for screening its contents and the contents of any > attachments for the presence of viruses. No liability is accepted for > any damages caused by any virus transmitted by this email. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Sep 29 16:55:46 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:55:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001101c5c53e$9013ad20$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INL0080OM8Y3E@l-daemon> That is why it might be a good idea to bet on the internet. It has the ability to expose you programming skills to anywhere there is a PC and a modem or broadband. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Dan, The problem is that there is no real custom software for small businesses development market here because this economy isn't yet ready for it . The money they are ready to pay for month long work will not be enough for my family's one week living.... ...I can sing like nightingale about how good their business becomes with advanced custom software - they will not buy it for money I need for my family's good living... ...I will keep trying of course but situation in custom software development here will not change to the better in foreseeable future... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > Shamil, > > If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by using > your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) > > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees > You're lucky guy, John! :) > > Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they > can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. > > If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your > country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 > companies, > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low > cost, > > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > > minute/hour/ or even month. > > > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks like > a > > good solution for that kind of application. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > Hi Shamil: > > > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up but > on > > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. It > > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of notice. > > > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how to > > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am hoping > > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a > 1000 > > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > > application, like the following: > > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating their > > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a > staff > > of 10. > > > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at > this > > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > Salakhetdinov > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Jim, > > > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. > users? > > > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have written > > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to > write > > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind into > > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can get > > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - all > > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything > else > > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software including > > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may > happen > > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > > "webisized"... > > > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and > MS > > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go > until > > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that > "Web > > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > > > Recap: > > ====== > > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may > expect > > it to be if any at all; > > > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because I > > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" > but > > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying on > > them... > > > > Shamil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jim Lawrence" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > > graphic user input > > for > > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > > formatted in > > XML > > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > > call-back) > > and > > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > > generated > > by > > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > > As > > you > > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > > 8 > > > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > > I > > can > > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > > > HTH > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > > Fuller > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > > problem > > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > > it). > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > Lawrence > > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > > thinking > > that > > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > > and PHP :-) > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Thu Sep 29 17:20:18 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:20:18 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INL0080OM8Y3E@l-daemon> Message-ID: <001a01c5c544$01b53cf0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Yes, Jim I'm betting on Internet - I even try to use RentACoder where "dirt cheap" Romanian, Indian, Ukranian, Russian, ... programmers and students from all around the World are betting. And it happened that after about 30 bid attempts I did get and I did develop one advanced C# project last summer and this project's completion moved me into higher than 97.99% percent league of RentACoder. But this is still 2300+th place out of 116,000+ registered programmers. Not bad but a long way to go... RentACoder is an interesting place to make challenging small projects in the new areas - in this case money do not matter that much - this is how it was with my first project there... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > That is why it might be a good idea to bet on the internet. It has the > ability to expose you programming skills to anywhere there is a PC and a > modem or broadband. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 2:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > Dan, > > The problem is that there is no real custom software for small businesses > development market here because this economy isn't yet ready for it . The > money they are ready to pay for month long work will not be enough for my > family's one week living.... > > ...I can sing like nightingale about how good their business becomes with > advanced custom software - they will not buy it for money I need for my > family's good living... > > ...I will keep trying of course but situation in custom software development > here will not change to the better in foreseeable future... > > Shamil > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Waters" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:45 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > Shamil, > > > > If you can show them that they can get more luxury cars and houses by > using > > your software, they'll come knocking! (You'd think anyway.) > > > > Dan > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > Salakhetdinov > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 3:12 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees > > You're lucky guy, John! :) > > > > Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they > > can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software > development. > > > > If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your > > country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) > > > > Shamil > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John W. Colby" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 5:40 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > Another thing to consider is that while there are 500 fortune 500 > > companies, > > > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees, and > > > correspondingly smaller customer base. These small companies need low > > cost, > > > functional applications, not applications tuned for 100k hits per > > > minute/hour/ or even month. > > > > > > I have a client that is 5 people scattered across the country. They all > > > need access to their data on a single server/location. ASP.Net looks > like > > a > > > good solution for that kind of application. > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: > > > http://folding.stanford.edu/ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 9:09 AM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > > Hi Shamil: > > > > > > I agree with your assessment on ASP. Supposedly, ASP.Net 2.0 is leap > > > forward, if you fully believe the hype. I also know that RAD generated > > > applications will require a lot of fine-tuning to be able to scale up > but > > on > > > the other hand I do remember the hype on Access when it first arrived. > It > > > was a difficult and slow package but gradually it became worthy of > notice. > > > > > > A lot of Access improvements were that we as developers began learn how > to > > > optimize the package until it could support a 100 plus users. I am > hoping > > > that ASP.Net is the next standard bearer and will be able to support a > > 1000 > > > or 10,000 plus users. Other companies are starting to develop web based > > > application, like the following: > > > (http://www.24sevenoffice.com/webpage/en/index.htm or > > > http://www.richercomponents.com/richtextbox/ ) and a local company and > > > mentor (http://www.functionfox.com ) are in the process of migrating > their > > > application to ASP. With their single program they currently support a > > staff > > > of 10. > > > > > > Whether those apps or our apps are scalable or manageable, who knows at > > this > > > point. ...but the features are all there.... > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > > > Salakhetdinov > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 12:49 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > Did you ask the trainers how good/bad such half-generated ASP.NET > > > application will work on high workload of 1,000, 10,000, 100,000 etc. > > users? > > > > > > I did work a few with ASP.NET 1.1 but I have a colleague who have > written > > > real apps - he says there is no way to have highly scalable ASP.NET > > > applications if one uses web forms with code behind etc. - one have to > > write > > > many things manually, with most of the code stripped from code behind > into > > > compiled .dlls, fine tune caching etc.etc - only in this case one can > get > > > highly scalable effective ASP.NET applications... > > > > > > ... I can be wrong but I think "there is no miracles in this World" - > all > > > these great features and RAD are more marketing campaign than anything > > else > > > - a lot of work is needed to develop a real masterpiece software > including > > > ASP.NET 2.0 based... > > > > > > ...of course "toys" web applications for not very high workload can be > > > developed in "toy mode" promoted by MS marketing campaign. And it may > > happen > > > this is all what is needed for many small businesses to become > > > "webisized"... > > > > > > ...yes, I know MS does do a lot in the area of software architecture and > > MS > > > is developing pre-built blocks but this is IMO still a long way to go > > until > > > they become really fine tuned for high workload.... > > > > > > ...and MS usually tends to solve tough tasks of "software efficiency > > > bottlenecks" by adding more and speedier hardware - yes, hardware is > > > becoming cheaper and cheaper every day but to keep up&running all that > > "Web > > > farms", "SQL Server farms" experienced system engineers are needed... > > > > > > Recap: > > > ====== > > > -VS.NET 2005 and ASP.NET 2005 - is yet another "crazy technology race > > > catch-up" - they promise a lot but ROI could be not as big as one may > > expect > > > it to be if any at all; > > > > > > - yes, I go this "crazy" way of course because I like VS.NET and because > I > > > have no option to "quit to a farm here and to program just for pleasure" > > but > > > after all that years of my working in IT-industry I'd not go blind - I'd > > > check and stress-test all that RAD solutions MS promotes before relying > on > > > them... > > > > > > Shamil > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Jim Lawrence" > > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 10:34 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > > > Hi Arthur: > > > > > > > > There is an heir-apparent to the ADP and it is ASP.Net 2.0. I was down > > > > at Redmond in the Devscovery conference, a real three-ring circus... > > > > and I am not kidding. Fairly significant demo apps, can be written in > > > > ASP.Net 2.0, that connect to a full featured MS SQL 2003/Report-Writer > > > > or SQL Express, that were created using its RAD interface that only > > > > had a couple lines of manually enter coding. > > > > > > > > There are full user login interfaces that actually add users across > > > > the internet, take their email address, send a confirmation request, > > > > set-up an automatic call-in receipt, additionally prompt with a > > > > graphic user input > > > for > > > > additional security. There are full digital-signed security controls > > > > and many more state-of-the-art features like, ADO.Net with data > > > > formatted in > > > XML > > > > and standard formats, auto-synchronization (works similar to > > > > call-back) > > > and > > > > full distribution of static datasets. These features can all be > > > > generated > > > by > > > > just selecting from option lists through wizards. Anyone can create an > > > > application with only a good understanding of where they want to go. > > > > As > > > you > > > > learn more the whole boiler-plated routines can be tricked up to the > > > > hilt. It is all very impressive. Here is a URL to the trainers that > > > > gave the presentation and demos to the group at the conference: > > > > http://www.wintellect.com/training/courseofferings.aspx?courses=5&id=4 > > > > 8 > > > > > > > > I do have a full list of all the demos and if you would be interested > > > > I > > > can > > > > send you them, off-line. I would suggest that you sign up to their > > > > on-line newsletters as I have heard they can be quite helpful. > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur > > > > Fuller > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:21 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > I have no complaint with that route. As you may know, my treasured > > > > partner Peter Brawley and I have described such a path (c.f. > > > > www.artfulsoftware.com). But that is neither here nor there. The big > > > problem > > > > with that path is that there is nothing even close to Access that > > > > delivers Linux apps (except as described in said e-book, using Access > > > > and the links to MySQL -- what I want is something like an ADP that > > > > hooks directly to MySQL. It isn't there. We tried in the > > > > aforementioned book to illustrate a way to get there, but it doesn't > > > > offer the same intimacy. We tried and delivered as best we could. But > > > > it isn't the same as ADP and there isn't a lot that we can do about > > > > it). > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > > > > Lawrence > > > > Sent: September 28, 2005 7:50 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > > > > > > That is a rub; through the years I have become a master at Dbase and > > > > its various iterations, Clipper, SuperBase, SmartWare, Advanced > > > > Revelation, Pascal, Fortran, FoxBase/Pro, Angoss, Access, Clarion, C > > > > and a few other miscellaneous environments. > > > > > > > > ...and another 3000 foot climb with dual pack-sacks and I keep > > > > thinking > > > that > > > > maybe I should have gone the open-source routine; Linux, Apache, MySQL > > > > and PHP :-) > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -- > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 18:23:49 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:23:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <001a01c5c544$01b53cf0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <000701c5c54c$d92898f0$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Shamil, I signed up with an outfit called Guru.com. I have bid on about 30 or so jobs, and got my first job today. The jobs coming across are mostly just good for a laugh. I literally saw one that went something like: "You will build a web crawler that will find the price of 4 of my books on Amazon.com. You will then find the lowest selling price and then you will replace my current selling price with 1c less than the lowest selling price. You will email me this and log that, and you will track something else. The winning bid for this job will be no more than $75.00" I'm just rolling on the floor laughing. And the sad part is that probably 95% of the jobs that come across are equally ludicrous. This guy knew what he wanted, he just wanted it done by a high school freshman who thought $75 was a lot of money. Most of these guys looking for help don't even know that much. Today I did win a bid for "3-4 weeks work finishing an application to track ...". All I did was bid my hourly wage for time worked and assured them I was capable. This job looks legitimate, and the company looks real - they have an internet site and offices around the country. I have an appointment to meet with one of the partners Monday morning to begin working with him defining what needs to be done etc etc. At least they appear to have a clue, they have something started, that they admit was started by a partner who got in over his head, and which they need straightened out and finished. That is exactly what I do a lot of the time so here we go. Trying to get work over the internet is no picnic. I guess it's just a numbers game, bid XX times and one will come your way. With any luck that one will keep giving you hours occasionally and you go back out bidding for the next job. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 6:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Yes, Jim I'm betting on Internet - I even try to use RentACoder where "dirt cheap" Romanian, Indian, Ukranian, Russian, ... programmers and students from all around the World are betting. And it happened that after about 30 bid attempts I did get and I did develop one advanced C# project last summer and this project's completion moved me into higher than 97.99% percent league of RentACoder. But this is still 2300+th place out of 116,000+ registered programmers. Not bad but a long way to go... RentACoder is an interesting place to make challenging small projects in the new areas - in this case money do not matter that much - this is how it was with my first project there... Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > That is why it might be a good idea to bet on the internet. It has the > ability to expose you programming skills to anywhere there is a PC and > a modem or broadband. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Sep 29 19:15:51 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:15:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000e01c5c532$155536f0$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <000801c5c554$20f30790$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >... but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. Yes, we have the same issues here. Which is exactly why RAD is so vital. You can sell tens of hours of dev at a good wage IF you can accomplish it in the time frame. Once you get the basics up, then the "can it do this little thing" syndrome takes over and you do "upgrades" for the rest of your life. But again, the little guys will just walk if you come in saying "200 hours at $60 / hour" (or whatever your rate is). I have a firmly held belief that is difficult to do much in the way of database development in under about 100 hours - in terms of a real system. The smallest companies need it in 20-40 hours, that is their comfort range for budget. I can actually do that for the simplest things, in fact I am in one now that I quoted 40 hours on and it is coming in at that - minus reports which of course can go on forever... I do believe though that I have a rather large advantage in this arena, that being my framework. As you probably know I can link to my framework and just instantly have such things as zip/unzip, log files to disk or tables, SysVars for program control, form and control classes for sinking events (Thanks to a gentleman by the name of Shamil) and doing the standard stuff like NotInList, RecordSelectors etc. So I can build forms with all that stuff in minutes instead of hours or days. Working the small business market is no joy ride but the nice thing about the small guy is that he is has no clue how to "go to India" for his work so if he is going to do a database, he is a prospect of mine. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > there are MILLIONS of companies with 10 or fewer employees You're lucky guy, John! :) Small companies' owners here can afford luxury cars and houses but they can't afford (just do not want) to pay well for custom software development. If you'll have some custom software development work to share for your country's MILLIONS of companies I'd not mind! :) Shamil From jmhecht at earthlink.net Fri Sep 30 00:31:51 2005 From: jmhecht at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 22:31:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000801c5c554$20f30790$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Message-ID: <000001c5c580$44f79850$0a01a8c0@desktop> John, Bless you for sysvars. I am still learning to work with them. Is it better to import tables to sysvars or sysvars into existing db Joe I do believe though that I have a rather large advantage in this arena, that being my framework. As you probably know I can link to my framework and just instantly have such things as zip/unzip, log files to disk or tables, SysVars for program control, From viner at EUnet.yu Fri Sep 30 00:59:12 2005 From: viner at EUnet.yu (Ervin Brindza) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:59:12 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004><007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c71865cb@winxp> <072301c5c503$0c2b8680$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <010601c5c586$aaaab190$0100a8c0@RazvojErvin> Rocky, knowing A.D. I'm think very soon will be a new sample at http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com ;-) Meantime you can see http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/Otherdownload.asp?SampleName='ReportPrevi ewing.zip' Ervin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > A.D.: > > Thanks for the idea. Does this mean that the report preview appears in a > pop-up or that there's a pop-up form with the navigation buttons? > > I already have a custom toolbar with a minimum of controls on it - print, > close, & fit. I see that you can add controls for record navigation. They > look like the icons I want but of course they don't turn the pages of a > report. I'd like to put the page navigation in the toolbar. Is there a way > to change the action of those icons you can put on a custom toolbar? Or is > there a way to create a custom button for a toolbar that would turn the > pages of a report? > > Thanks and regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "A.D.Tejpal" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:00 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > > Rocky, > > > > Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables > > page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps > > forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. > > > > You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. > > > > Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is > > necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the > > active one. > > > > Best wishes, > > A.D.Tejpal > > -------------- > > > > Code module for Pop Up Form > > ================================ > > ' Declarations Section > > Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long > > > > Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ > > (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long > > -------------------------------------------------------- > > Private Sub CmdNext_Click() > > DoCmd.Echo False > > Me.Visible = False > > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > > SendKeys "{DOWN}", True > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > > Me.Visible = True > > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > > DoCmd.Echo True > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() > > DoCmd.Echo False > > Me.Visible = False > > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > > SendKeys "{UP}", True > > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > > Me.Visible = True > > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > > DoCmd.Echo True > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub Form_Activate() > > DoCmd.Restore > > End Sub > > > > Private Sub Form_Load() > > RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd > > FrmHdw = Me.hwnd > > End Sub > > ================================ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 > > Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview > > if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom > > control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the > > screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be > > added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more > > likely to see them. > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > 858-259-4334 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 30 06:11:49 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 07:11:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c580$44f79850$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <001a01c5c5af$c3fa5a00$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> >Is it better to import tables to sysvars or sysvars into existing db I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but the way I use SysVars, I have a table of SysVars that controls the framework. That table has a copy in the framework that is loaded by the framework as it initializes. It controls such things as: Do you want JIT Subforms turned on by default What is the default date format Etc. Thus the call to FWInit causes the FWSysVars table INSIDE of the framework MDA to load. Once that is loaded, it looks for a copy of FWSysVars in the FE. This is an "override" table. IOW, by default, JIT Subforms may be false, but for THIS FE, JIT SubForms needs to be on by default. Thus I literally copy the FWSysVars table from the framework MDA into every FE as one of the first steps of setting up a FE. I can then edit the FW defaults per the needs of THAT FE. So... I have a SysVar table that controls the FRAMEWORK, with a copy that loads immediately from inside the framework library and then an override table that loads from the FE which can override any defaults on a FE by FE basis. I usually then have what I call an SVAPPControl table, or a table of SysVars to control the CODE in the application. Perhaps the app needs steering logic to decide whether to turn on particular forms or reports or modules of code. By setting SysVars in the SVAppControl table you can cause code to branch particular ways. The SVAppControl table is typically just another table that physically sits in the framework MDA but is empty. The framework loads the table and sets up a SVAppControl class for the application to reference, but it doesn't have anything in it. I then copy the empty SVAppContr table into the FE and start loading SVs into the table as I find a need for them as I am developing the app. Thus let's say I add 15 SVAppControl variables into the copy in the FE. As the framework loads, it loads the FWSysvars table and override table, it loads the SVAppControl (empty) from the Framework MDA and then loads the now populated SVAppControl from the FE and by the time the Framework is finished initializing that table is ready for the FE application code to use. I also have a third SVAppDATA table. This is a table of application DATA sysvars. Things like my company (ColbyConsulting) contact information, the same kind of info about the CLIENT'S company, perhaps for use on reports etc. The process is the same though. There is an empty copy of the table in the SysVar that gets loaded as the framework initializes. I then copy that empty table into my BACK END (typically) so that even if there is more than one FE they all share the same info, although it is possible to have an "override" table located in the FE that can override the one in the BE if a specific FE needs different AppData. Again though, as the framework loads, it loads the empty copy in the Framework container, then looks for and loads the one in the BE/FE. By the time the framework is finished loading, the AppDATA SysVar table is finished loading and is ready for the application to use. Thus in my applications I have THREE "sets" of SysVar tables. SVFramework SVAppControl SVAppData All of these have the tables named and ready to go in the framework container. As I build the empty FE I pull all three into the FE, pulling the SVAppDATA into the BE as well, and linking it into the FE. I can then load SysVars into the various tables as I desire and they are just loaded by the Framework as it initializes so that by the time the FWInit() function returns control to the FE loader, all three tables have been initialized. By the time I am done, I have THREE functions I can call to get data out of the various SysVar tables. SVFW("SomeSysVarName") will return the value of the SysVar named "SomeSysVarName" from the FRAMEWORK SysVar table (cached of course). SVAppContr("SomeAppCONTROLSysVarName") will return the value of the SysVar named "SomeAppCONTROLSysVarName" from the APPLICATION CONTROL SysVar table (cached of course). SVAppData("SomeAppDATASysVarName") will return the value of the SysVar named "SomeAppDATASysVarName" from the APPLICATION DATA SysVar table (cached of course). SysVar tables are a type of cache, loaded out of the tables into a class structure. I do this intentionally so that the program can access these variables at full program speed instead of having to access the table out in the database container whenever it needs to use a SysVar. Sysvars are lightening fast, but because they are a cache, if you add something to the SysVar table, the application won't pick it up until the next time the SysVar tables are loaded into the class cache system. In practice this isn't an issue since these variables are not changed on a moment by moment basis, but rather loaded as you build the app and then rarely change. The SVAppDATA table changes the most frequently, but again even this is on a very occasional basis, not daily. I hope this has answered your questions about how I use them, where the tables come from, where I place them and how they get loaded. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL John, Bless you for sysvars. I am still learning to work with them. Is it better to import tables to sysvars or sysvars into existing db Joe From adtp at touchtelindia.net Fri Sep 30 07:44:49 2005 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:14:49 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar References: <06cc01c5c2c5$b249e420$6501a8c0@HAL9004><007b01c5c38d$9a6ff240$c 71865cb@winxp> <072301c5c503$0c2b8680$6501a8c0@HAL9004> Message-ID: <001c01c5c5bc$daac5de0$971865cb@winxp> Rocky, It is a tiny pop-up form (similar to a tool bar) that sits in a corner of the screen. It gets opened via report's open event and closed via report's close event. You might like to adapt the commands suitably to appropriate buttons on your tool bar. In that case, the commands specific to the form (i.e. hiding / un-hiding etc) can be ignored. After ensuring that report window is the active one and the report is in FitToWindow mode, SendKeys arguments as summarized below, would do the needful. (a) Go to Next Page - "{DOWN}" (b) Go to Prev Page - "{UP}" (c) Go to Last Page - "^{DOWN}" (d) Go to First Page - "^{UP}" It is observed that SendKeys commands do not get ported smoothly to tool bar functions. If you find yourself stuck on this account, and wish to avoid form based solution, you could consider experimenting with fTurnPage feature available at Leban's site. For this, you would have to download the file named ControlReports.zip. Sample named ReportPreviewing.zip (by Heenan) at Roger's site, as mentioned by Ervin, represents the pop-up form approach. If at any stage, you happen to need a simplified sample based upon the code sent by me earlier, I can try to put it together. Best wishes, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 20:05 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar A.D.: Thanks for the idea. Does this mean that the report preview appears in a pop-up or that there's a pop-up form with the navigation buttons? I already have a custom toolbar with a minimum of controls on it - print, close, & fit. I see that you can add controls for record navigation. They look like the icons I want but of course they don't turn the pages of a report. I'd like to put the page navigation in the toolbar. Is there a way to change the action of those icons you can put on a custom toolbar? Or is there a way to create a custom button for a toolbar that would turn the pages of a report? Thanks and regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com 858-259-4334 ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > Rocky, > > Sample code in the module of a pop-up form, as given below, enables > page navigation of report named R_Test. Command button named CmdNext steps > forward through the pages while that named CmdPrev does the reverse. > > You might like to adapt it suitably for your specific situation. > > Note - For the SendKeys command (Up or Dn arrow) to be effective, it is > necessary that report is in FitToWindow mode and report's window is the > active one. > > Best wishes, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > > Code module for Pop Up Form > ================================ > ' Declarations Section > Private RepHdw As Long, FrmHdw As Long > > Private Declare Function BringWindowToTop Lib "user32" _ > (ByVal hwnd As Long) As Long > -------------------------------------------------------- > Private Sub CmdNext_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{DOWN}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub CmdPrev_Click() > DoCmd.Echo False > Me.Visible = False > BringWindowToTop RepHdw > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdFitToWindow > SendKeys "{UP}", True > DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdZoom100 > Me.Visible = True > BringWindowToTop FrmHdw > DoCmd.Echo True > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Activate() > DoCmd.Restore > End Sub > > Private Sub Form_Load() > RepHdw = Reports("R_Test").hwnd > FrmHdw = Me.hwnd > End Sub > ================================ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 23:41 > Subject: [AccessD] Report Navigation on Custom Toolbar > > > Dear List: > > I have a custom toolbar for reports that get displayed in report preview > if the db is an mde. It has only printer icon, close button, and zoom > control. The paging navigation is of course, at the lower left of the > screen in preview mode, but I'm wondering if these nav buttons can be > added to the custom toolbar where an inexperienced user might be more > likely to see them. > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > 858-259-4334 From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 30 08:24:09 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000001c5c504$7ab21780$0a01a8c0@desktop> Message-ID: <200509301324.j8UDODT24194@databaseadvisors.com> In the words of Plato, therefore you know one thing. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Hecht Sent: September 29, 2005 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Susan I would buy basic xml and .net In the words of SGT Schultz, I know nothing. From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 30 08:39:53 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:39:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200509301339.j8UDdvT30673@databaseadvisors.com> You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 30 08:42:09 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:42:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] blogs on Office 12 Message-ID: <20050930134208.CRAY3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> http://blogs.msdn.com/jensenh/archive/2005/09/28/474854.aspx Found this on Mike G's site (larkware.com) Susan H. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 30 08:51:22 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:51:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: Hi Arthur I'm certainly interested but unfortunately don't have the time for experimenting. Would you mind to reveal your findings please? /gustav >>> artful at rogers.com 30-09-2005 15:39 >>> You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 30 08:53:24 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:53:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Friday humor -- speaking of pi... Message-ID: <20050930135322.CWJQ3080.ibm63aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> http://users.aol.com/s6sj7gt/ladypi.htm Susan H. From alan.lawhon at us.army.mil Fri Sep 30 09:43:31 2005 From: alan.lawhon at us.army.mil (Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:43:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF299@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 30 10:30:16 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:30:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Message-ID: It drives me up the wall too, because I've had to deal with the results in the past. Try to filter records sometime for one value or the other or one value and not the other when both are embedded in multiple value fields! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research [mailto:alan.lawhon at us.army.mil] Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 11:40:10 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:40:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <5D5043687CFCE44288407A73E4CC6E17013EF299@redstone819.ad.redstone.army.mil> Message-ID: <0INN00DEN2ALFE@l-daemon> Hi Alan: If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see them are as follows: 1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. 2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little duplication as possible. 3. A high level of performance must be maintained. With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to impact performance. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at users.mns.ru Fri Sep 30 12:06:57 2005 From: shamil at users.mns.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:06:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INN00DEN2ALFE@l-daemon> Message-ID: <000801c5c5e1$606bfb10$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Jim, But I think MS SQL 2000 and MS SQL 2005 perfectly fit all the twelve Dr.E.F. Codd rules. http://www.frick-cpa.com/ss7/Theory_RelationalDB.asp Maybe there are some small exceptions for the rules: #4. Database is Self-Describing #12. Data Integrity Cannot be Subverted but they are not significant I think. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Alan: If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see them are as follows: 1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. 2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little duplication as possible. 3. A high level of performance must be maintained. With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to impact performance. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From hollisvj at pgdp.usec.com Fri Sep 30 13:27:14 2005 From: hollisvj at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis, Virginia) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:27:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo to Combo Message-ID: <66ABA669023AE74B97746FD8E68439200148E89E@c2k3exchange.pgdp.corp.usec.com> I need to create a combo box that lists system identifications. When the selection is made from the system combo, the 2nd combo only lists related failures. The problem is the System and the Failure are repeated. An Alarm can have the same type of failure as a Dryer. How do I set up the tables & the form for the combos to list the Systems with the matching Failure types when they are all repeated? Example: System, Failure Alarm, Age Alarm, Normal Wear Alarm, Corrosion Battery, Overload Battery, Age Dryer, Normal Wear Dryer, Age Dryer, Obstruction Virginia From developer at ultradnt.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:29 2005 From: developer at ultradnt.com (Steve Conklin) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Combo to Combo In-Reply-To: <66ABA669023AE74B97746FD8E68439200148E89E@c2k3exchange.pgdp.corp.usec.com> Message-ID: <200509301849.j8UInZD09063@ultradnt.com> Virginia: You need a many-to-many table to relate the Systems to the Failure Types ... tblSystem: PK=systemID 1 (Alarm) 2 (Dryer) tblFailType: PK=FailTypeID 1 (Age) 2 (Wear) tblSystemFailType: FK1=SystemID FK2=FailTypeID Alarm Wear Alarm Shorted Dryer Wear Dryer Age Then on the form, after user selects system from combo1, requery combo 2 to show the applicable failure types Combo 2 source = "SELECT FailTypeID, FailType FROM tblFailType WHERE FailTypeID IN " & _ " (SELECT FailTypeID FROM tblSystemFailType WHERE SystemID=" & me.combo1 & ")" Hth Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis, Virginia Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 2:27 PM To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Combo to Combo I need to create a combo box that lists system identifications. When the selection is made from the system combo, the 2nd combo only lists related failures. The problem is the System and the Failure are repeated. An Alarm can have the same type of failure as a Dryer. How do I set up the tables & the form for the combos to list the Systems with the matching Failure types when they are all repeated? Example: System, Failure Alarm, Age Alarm, Normal Wear Alarm, Corrosion Battery, Overload Battery, Age Dryer, Normal Wear Dryer, Age Dryer, Obstruction Virginia -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Sep 30 13:49:33 2005 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:49:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] attack of the Access pixies Message-ID: I have something really freaky going on and I need to enlist the help of the Access gods of this list...to save my sanity if nothing else. I was working on a form this afternoon, and adding bells and whistles. Actually, I've created 16 custom buttons (2 for each state of 8 choices), and I am using them for the menu. I use these by placing an image control under invisible control buttons. After placing in the eight choices with their default pictures, it all worked fine. But as I started adding the code for MouseMove, SetFocus, GotFocus, and LostFocus, for the first button, I almost immediately noticed odd behavior. When I moused over the first button, instead of alternating to the new image, like I have programmed...and have done so many times before...it gave me a message box that said it was "loading the image." I froze at that time and the message stayed there. It turned out that as soon as the mouse came off the button, it would change, but I've never seen a load message before. I figured that I would tend to this problem later and went on with the other buttons. I added the second button and then tested it out...I always take baby steps...I know they say, "God hates a coward," but he doesn't always seem that fond of me either, so slow and careful is how I try to operate. It still said that it was loading, but now I was wise enough, for testing purposes, to move the mouse. Now, as soon as I hit the second button, Access closes w/out any further warning. Of course I hadn't saved my work in over 30 minutes...I'm always lecturing my users about this, and I am usually good about it...so I had to retype a great deal. I found out that it doesn't matter what order I do this in; it always bombs on the second button that I mouse over. As another test, I added code for a third button and it confirmed the same. No matter what button you mouse over second is the trigger to close Access. There is one more finding though. If I avoid the remaining two buttons with code, after mousing over one first, and click on one of the five "uncoded" buttons, everything goes back to normal, until I hit one of the three "coded" buttons again. This is the code that I use in the three buttons (this is one, but besides the name, they are all the same): *** Start Code ******************************************************************************************** Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_Click() subformx.SourceObject = "frmSortedByLastname" End Sub Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_GotFocus() imgEmployeeInfo.Picture = "C:\Documents and Settings\DefaultUser\My Documents\Programming\graphix\Buttons\Custom\DSSPayroll_Orange\EmployeeInfo_2.gif" End Sub Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_LostFocus() imgEmployeeInfo.Picture = "C:\Documents and Settings\DefaultUser\My Documents\Programming\graphix\Buttons\Custom\DSSPayroll_Orange\EmployeeInfo_1.gif" End Sub Private Sub cmdEmpInfo_MouseMove(Button As Integer, Shift As Integer, X As Single, Y As Single) cmdEmpInfo.SetFocus End Sub *** End Code ******************************************************************************************** BTW, This is A2K. Is there some limit maybe on the path size? This won't be the final path, which will most likely be something like, "///volume:data/access/dss/payroll/graphics/" This is driving me batty! I am going to try a reboot right now, just to see if there is some sort of memory issue on my PC...doubt it will work though...I am grasping right now. Thanks in advance! John W Clark From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Sep 30 14:03:29 2005 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:03:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] attack of the Access pixies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050930190331.XLXP24941.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Have you used these image files before? Susan H. Actually, I've created 16 custom buttons (2 for each state of 8 choices), and I am using them for the menu. I use these by placing an image control under invisible control buttons. After placing in the eight choices with their default pictures, it all worked fine. But as I started adding the code for MouseMove, SetFocus, GotFocus, and LostFocus, for the first button, I almost immediately noticed odd behavior. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Sep 30 14:14:51 2005 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:14:51 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] attack of the Access pixies Message-ID: Hi John Don't load the pictures every time. Convert them to bitmaps, insert them on the form, and hide/unhide them as needed. /gustav From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Sep 30 14:47:16 2005 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:47:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Message-ID: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F16CB9288@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Good grief!!!! It has been almost three hours since we last had a "The future of Access, .NET and SQL" posting. What gives? :-) Lambert From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 15:04:45 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:04:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up Message-ID: In case anyone has tried to access the archives at http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/ recently and received a 403 Forbidden Error, it's fixed!!! After 3 weeks of diagnosing the problem and trying various solutions with no luck, I finally found the solution. It was a simple permissions problem. This affected all the public archives at databaseadvisors.com, so everything is now as it should be. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Sep 30 15:07:25 2005 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:07:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Message-ID: Exhaustion setting in?? ;-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:47 PM To: 'Access-D Email (accessd at databaseadvisors.com)' Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Good grief!!!! It has been almost three hours since we last had a "The future of Access, .NET and SQL" posting. What gives? :-) Lambert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Sep 30 15:23:54 2005 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:23:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! In-Reply-To: <1D7828CDB8350747AFE9D69E0E90DA1F16CB9288@xlivmbx21.aig.com> Message-ID: Yes, the feeling is coming back to my delete key finger, which went numb from so much use. :) by the way, being Friday, here's one of my favorites from Rodney Daingerfield: My wife asked me to take to somewhere really expensive last night. So I did. * * * * * * I took her to the gas station. D -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 12:47 PM To: 'Access-D Email (accessd at databaseadvisors.com)' Subject: [AccessD] Friday at last! Good grief!!!! It has been almost three hours since we last had a "The future of Access, .NET and SQL" posting. What gives? :-) Lambert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 16:59:03 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:59:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: <000801c5c5e1$606bfb10$6401a8c0@fincomplex.spb.ru> Message-ID: <0INN00J5HH2AZK@l-daemon> Shamil: That description is a very good one. I have not seen a translation as good as that one and I think none of the rules can be refuted. The issues arrive when they are described in context with database normalization. I rarely process below Form 3. A collogue has been saying for years that the relational database as we know it is designed wrong. He claims that a real relational database or post-relational database is OOP. To that end he says he can demonstrate that a Cach? database running on a slower computer can run the same application as an existing MS SQL DB faster and with better access to the data. It is suppose to scale to millions of records was no apparent loss in performance. (I am skeptical and unfortunately missed last night's demonstration but will reserve my judgment until further observation.) I anticipate a carefully timed demonstration... There is a free single user download from http://www.intersystems.com/cache/downloads/ (Windows/Linux) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Jim, But I think MS SQL 2000 and MS SQL 2005 perfectly fit all the twelve Dr.E.F. Codd rules. http://www.frick-cpa.com/ss7/Theory_RelationalDB.asp Maybe there are some small exceptions for the rules: #4. Database is Self-Describing #12. Data Integrity Cannot be Subverted but they are not significant I think. Shamil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi Alan: If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see them are as follows: 1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. 2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little duplication as possible. 3. A high level of performance must be maintained. With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to impact performance. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C Contractor/Morgan Research Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Arthur, Charlotte: Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) "An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early 1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of articles dealing with various topics related to database design. Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these "flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's criticisms just about right.) I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. Alan C. Lawhon -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested reader. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of "databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple choices stored in a single field. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL >> Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning relational design? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL Hi all OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? ACE - Access Data Engine - Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% backwards compatible with Jet - Connects to external data sources - Foundation for richer support of complex data - Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) - Attachments - Append only - Read and write Excel "12" file formats - SharePoint ISAM enhancements - OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) I guess OM here means Object Model. Further: New ACCDB file format - Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries - Default for all new database - Supports complex data features - Multiple value lookups - Attachments - Append only - SharePoint list offline - Office file encryption not Jet encoding Also this summary: - Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform - SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types of collaborative applications - Developers can build and deploy tracking templates Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this seems not to be "dead" at all. /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> Hi Susan and Martin Thanks! Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 17:02:25 2005 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:02:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0INN0002IH7W62@l-daemon> Thank you Bryan; another job well done. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 1:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up In case anyone has tried to access the archives at http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/ recently and received a 403 Forbidden Error, it's fixed!!! After 3 weeks of diagnosing the problem and trying various solutions with no luck, I finally found the solution. It was a simple permissions problem. This affected all the public archives at databaseadvisors.com, so everything is now as it should be. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Fri Sep 30 17:13:22 2005 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:13:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Archives Back Up In-Reply-To: <0INN0002IH7W62@l-daemon> References: <0INN0002IH7W62@l-daemon> Message-ID: On 30/09/05, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thank you Bryan; another job well done. Thanks Jim. I just wish it didn't take this long to get it fixed. :( -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Sep 30 19:07:59 2005 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:07:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL References: <0INN00J5HH2AZK@l-daemon> Message-ID: <433DD35F.1000101@shaw.ca> With Cache you have to read the swipes Date and Pascal take at it Against http://www.dbazine.com/ofinterest/oi-articles/pascal5 But with Fabian Pascal, you start believing in Mystic Eisegesis and start looking for notes nailed to church doors. http://www.dbdebunk.com/index.html For http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5746 Jim Lawrence wrote: >Shamil: > >That description is a very good one. I have not seen a translation as good >as that one and I think none of the rules can be refuted. The issues arrive >when they are described in context with database normalization. I rarely >process below Form 3. > >A collogue has been saying for years that the relational database as we know >it is designed wrong. He claims that a real relational database or >post-relational database is OOP. To that end he says he can demonstrate that >a Cach? database running on a slower computer can run the same application >as an existing MS SQL DB faster and with better access to the data. It is >suppose to scale to millions of records was no apparent loss in performance. >(I am skeptical and unfortunately missed last night's demonstration but will >reserve my judgment until further observation.) > >I anticipate a carefully timed demonstration... There is a free single user >download from http://www.intersystems.com/cache/downloads/ (Windows/Linux) > >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >Salakhetdinov >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 10:07 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Jim, > >But I think MS SQL 2000 and MS SQL 2005 perfectly fit all the twelve >Dr.E.F. Codd rules. > >http://www.frick-cpa.com/ss7/Theory_RelationalDB.asp > >Maybe there are some small exceptions for the rules: > >#4. Database is Self-Describing >#12. Data Integrity Cannot be Subverted > >but they are not significant I think. > >Shamil > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim Lawrence" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hi Alan: > >If all ten law/rules/guidelines were ever fully implemented on a database >the application it would grind to a halt. It has been attempted, to various >degrees, in data designs within Government Ministries for years and in ever >cases it has failed. The basic guidelines of relational databases as I see >them are as follows: >1. The data must be easy to retrieve...therefore the data should be grouped. > >2. The database must be kept as small as reasonable...therefore as little >duplication as possible. >3. A high level of performance must be maintained. > >With those three guidelines much of Codd's/Date's rules can be implemented >but the whole concept starts to fall apart when enforcing the rules start to >impact performance. > >My two cents worth >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lawhon, Alan C >Contractor/Morgan Research >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 7:44 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >Arthur, Charlotte: > >Several years ago I recall buying (and trying to comprehend) relational >database guru Chris Date's "classic" book (it's more like a tome ...) >"An Introduction to Database Systems". (Chris Date's main claim to >fame is as a prot?g? of the late Dr. E.F. "Ted" Codd - the "father" of >the relational database model.) Date worked with Dr. Codd in the early >1970's at IBM. He is now a full time consultant and writer - mostly of >articles dealing with various topics related to database design. > >Chris Date is a relational "purist" (some might say a zealot) in arguing >that a database system (or a vendor implementation of a database system) >cannot be considered truly "relational" if it violates any of Codd's "Ten >Rules" of relational database design. (Without "naming names," Chris Date >excoriates various vendor implementations of the relational model in his >book. He accuses these vendors of committing various "unforgivable sins" >against the relational model. Chris Date implies (or in some cases flat >out states) that these "sins" [of implementation] will lead to nothing >but trouble when commercial systems are designed and built using these >"flawed" implementations. (I'm doing a lot of paraphrasing of Chris Date's >words and writing here, but I think I have the "general drift" of Date's >criticisms just about right.) > >I think part of the "problem" (from the vendors perspective) may be that >creating a [truly] "relational" database system that passes muster with >Chris Date is probably very difficult - not to mention very costly. (After >investing literally BILLIONS of dollars in research and development, a >vendor may come up with an implementation that meets the requirements of >six or seven of the ten rules - and ignores (or "violates") the other three >rules. Chris Date focuses in on the three (or four) rules that have been >violated - and declares the whole implementation "fatally flawed". > >I would have to go back and re-read "An Introduction to Database Systems," >but I have a feeling that the introduction of "Multi-choice combos" is >the kind of thing that will drive Chris Date up the wall. > >Alan C. Lawhon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 8:40 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >You can add MySQL to your list of offending databases. MySQL offends in two >ways, actually, but I will leave that as an exercise for the interested >reader. > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: September 29, 2005 11:05 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > >I haven't *seen* it. The stated concept gives me shivers because of >"databases" like Approach and FileMaker that have allowed multiple >choices stored in a single field. > >Charlotte > >-----Original Message----- >From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:05 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Multi-choice combos <> relational constraints! >Case in point: I want to add N children to a parent, whose DetailType is >selected from a multi-choice combo.... i.e. add a Hotel, a CarRental, a >ConcertTicket, an AirportShuttle. The UI lets me do this as quickly as >possible, and background code takes care of the Parent-Child >relationships. I see no problem here. What are you seeing? > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: September 28, 2005 11:22 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > > >>>Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) >>> >>> > >That's the one I find scary. Does that mean they're abandoning >relational design? > >Charlotte > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gustav Brock [mailto:Gustav at cactus.dk] >Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:32 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL > > >Hi all > >OK, found something in the slides at the links from Jim. >Does anyone know if "Append only" is fixed or optional? > > > >ACE - Access Data Engine > >- Engine based on Jet code-base and installed with Office, 100% >backwards compatible with Jet >- Connects to external data sources >- Foundation for richer support of complex data >- Multi-choice combo box (M-M joins) >- Attachments >- Append only >- Read and write Excel "12" file formats >- SharePoint ISAM enhancements >- OM changes to DAO and ACE OLEDB provider (ADO) > > > >I guess OM here means Object Model. >Further: > > > >New ACCDB file format > >- Can be emailed and stored in SharePoint document libraries >- Default for all new database >- Supports complex data features >- Multiple value lookups >- Attachments >- Append only >- SharePoint list offline >- Office file encryption not Jet encoding > > > >Also this summary: > > > >- Microsoft is committed to Access as a developer platform >- SharePoint Services integration allows developers to build new types >of collaborative applications >- Developers can build and deploy tracking templates > > > >Note that an Outlook code example in the presentation uses DAO, so this >seems not to be "dead" at all. > >/gustav > > > >>>>Gustav at cactus.dk 27-09-2005 21:03 >>> >>>> >>>> >Hi Susan and Martin > >Thanks! >Just wondering what this new engine should be about ... > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From artful at rogers.com Fri Sep 30 21:42:13 2005 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:42:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] The future of Access, .NET and SQL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200510010242.j912gAT05257@databaseadvisors.com> The first violation, if you wish to call it that, is the ENUM column type. This type specifies that the value must be one of a collection of enumerated strings, such as "This", "That", "The other", "Nothing", etc. This is akin to Access's value-list column definition. The second violation is the SET column. Given a column definition such as MyColumn SET('one', 'two') NOT NULL Then MyColumn can have any of these values: '' 'one' 'two' 'one,two' A SET can have a maximum of 64 different members. Magic is being performed behind the scenes. You can do lightning-quick queries against such columns, not surprisingly (note the 64-member maximum). But the fact remains that this would make Dr. Codd turn over in his grave. This sort of column violates everything we have learned about relational database design. Columns should be ATOMIC -- one value per row/column. My partner Peter Brawley and I have done some benchmarks and there is no doubt about it, MySQL's set columns are fast. But what the benchmarks don't mention is the cost of adding a new item to any given set. Suppose you have 1,000 installations. You have to restructure the table, then bump it out to 1.000 database servers. Not a pretty prospect. That said, the concept does work well for small sets that are unlikely to change, such as "Potential Sexual Partners" set "male", "female", "tv", "tg". That set covers the bases for the foreseeable future (unless I am really old and really out of touch with such matters). A. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Sep 30 23:57:00 2005 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 00:57:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] My new web site Message-ID: <000501c5c644$920ae330$6c7aa8c0@ColbyM6805> Anyone interested please visit. I am using DotNetNuke to build my new web site. It is still a work in progress, as is my knowledge of DNN. What you see on my site has been done in just about a week. For a side by side comparison: My new site: www.colbyconsulting.com My old site: www.jwcolby.com I am finding DNN to be a pretty cool web site framework. It REQUIRES SQL Server and so you must purchase a hosting package that includes SQL Server, but it gives the developer (knowledgeable in Visual Studio) the ability to write custom modules to work with data from SQL Server using plug-in modules that you write. DNN is written using VB in VS 2003, and I own VS 2001 so I am at a standstill ATM, however I am about to order the academic version (my wife is a teacher) of VS 2003 which will allow me to start developing snap-in modules for DNN that can dish up data. Stand by for that. Any comments welcome. I am not a web site developer so do not expect a world class web page, but I think that given my limitations it looks pretty good. Register and Log in to see additional features. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Contribute your unused CPU cycles to a good cause: http://folding.stanford.edu/