Charlotte Foust
cfoust at infostatsystems.com
Thu Jul 5 12:38:11 CDT 2007
<smirk> Well, if the shoe fits .... LOL No, John, I'm saying that newcomers to Access shouldn't just use the paint by numbers approach. Since Access is being positioned for power users rather than developers, my remarks were directed toward said users. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? Charlotte, >I still think every Access wannabe should learn how to deal with >unbound objects as well, and not simply use the cookie cutter bound approach. LOL. Are you calling me a wannabe? ;-) John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? I just KNEW you wouldn't be able to resist that comment, John! LOL I agree with you thought (mostly). I made heavy use of unbound forms and controls in Access, and it was easier for me to switch to .Net than it might be for some. However, I still think every Access wannabe should learn how to deal with unbound objects as well, and not simply use the cookie cutter bound approach. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? Jim, >You mentioning this will not cause near the stir as it did 10 years ago >as most (all?) have now accepted the reality. ;-) LOL, no not quite. Access is a tool built from the ground up for bound. To even discuss unbound for Access NOW, when much more robust unbound tools are available is ... well... kinda silly. Unless of course you have been doing unbound with Access for the last 10 years in which case you have the expertise to do so. Telling the average Access nubee to use Access unbound is IMHO a disservice to the nubee. He might as well just go learn VB.Net. As for me, if I need unbound it will be in VB.Net, NOT in Access (and I am not an Access nubee). The right tool for the job so to speak. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? Yes, Drew you have hit on the key to performance... 'unbound'. You mentioning this will not cause near the stir as it did 10 years ago as most (all?) have now accepted the reality. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? It narrows down to a few factors: Backend Design (well indexed and normalized) Front End Design (Hit and run designs, don't stay connected to the backend unless you have too) Network Speed (far more important then hardware speed/memory. Sure, the more your interface leans on the processor/ram, the more you need CPU speed and ram, but for actual database work, the network speed and server hard drive access time are far more criticl) Did I mention 'unbound'. Of course, most of these concerns go out the window when using a web based interface with the .mdb running locally.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? Anita, >You are very brave It doesn't feel that way. Access works very well for what it does. >A form will open fast if designed well. You are right there. You can grind everything to a halt by trying to use bound forms pulling tens of thousands of records. I had to go to the "single record" thing for this form, but it worked and worked well. >You can keep throwing hardware at Access applications to will make them perform faster. The real trick is to get your database to perform fast regardless. That is just a silly thing to say. Try getting a modern real database running on an old 100 mhz machine with 64 meg. You have to face facts and the facts are that the machine makes the difference. A modern machine can be had for peanuts from Dell. If the business owner is complaining that his Celeron 1ghz machines running 256 megs of ram, windows 98 and Access 2000 is running slow.... My only response will be... "and your point is?" I use a framework which makes it very easy for me to do things like time form openings and log what machine is doing the opening. I showed my client that his users complaining about slow databases were ALL on slow machines. And yep, he is buying new modern "workstations", a few a month, to get rid of the old junk he was running with. And the users have quit complaining. Sorry, facts is facts. You can index till the cows come home but that is never going to fly on ancient hardware. Now, you can certainly move the whole shooting match to a modern server running Windows server 2003 and SQl Server and pay through the nose for that machine, OS and SQL Server, and then pay through the nose for SQL Server and OS notworking experts. That is certainly an option. Or you can update your workstations for less money and have good performance for many (MANY) more than 10-12 users. And no, I am not arguing that an MDB is the solution for hundreds of users but 10-12 users? C'mon! John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Anita Smith Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 12:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Performance tips anyone? John, My comments in line: Errrrr! Wrong answer. I have a database with 25 users in the database every day. The BE is currently about 800 mbytes. This BE has tables with hundreds of thousands of records in some tables, 30K-50K records in the main tables (claimant / claim). I open a VERY complex tabbed form with about 20 tabs on it, with subforms on each tab (JIT subforms). *************************************** You are very brave *************************************** I open a VERY complex tabbed form with about 20 tabs on it, with subforms on each tab (JIT subforms). Users on fast machines open the form in about 1.2 seconds. Users on very old slow machines take about 5 to 6 seconds. *************************************** A form will open fast if designed well. *************************************** Speed of the individual workstation is the single largest determinate of acceptable speed. A high speed processor and LOTS of memory (1 gig for Windows XP Pro) are essential. Moving to a 1 gbit lan made a big difference as well (which requires a gigabit NIC in the machines as well). *************************************** You can keep throwing hardware at Access applications to will make them perform faster. The real trick is to get your database to perform fast regardless. *************************************** Anita -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI BusinessSensitve material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 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