William Hindman
wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com
Tue Jun 5 23:49:40 CDT 2007
...lol ...asking JC to behave is like asking a puppy not to piddle :) William Hindman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" <mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:47 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] This on SharePoint Will keep you posted. We are building a approx 30,000 user system using MOSS - will see how it goes. We do however have very very good back up for the whole show (<: At the moment I have built a 200 user system which will store hundreds of gigs of documents, provide room booking, document management, personal web sites which will display a users Exchange accounts (Inbox, Cal etc) We are running a distinct SQL Server mirrored on the SAN, Two web server for front ends and we have additional servers coming online later this week. The fact the data is help in SQL Server as opposed to the file system is to be honest to us totally of no concern. The enterprise search is really good as well. So far speed of returning documents is excellent from both the client and the server, Out of the box dev speed is really fast. However, once you leave the out of the box behind we have a large learning curve as all of our stuff is PHP and needs converting. Well actually we are looking at how we can call the PHP apps from within MOSS. Again for this I have a large resource of very talented people to work with unlike many of the consultants on the list. Of course in this version there is no RI but I believe that is coming. The basic idea is that every thing is a list in MOSS everything. Re Access. I will be using Access 2007 to permit staff to take data offline and then resync back later. That to be honest is about all we will be doing with Access and MOSS. You can also link to the MOSS lists from Access just like SQL Server thus using the data in your own apps. MOSS is more a development platform to be honest. A huge range of stuff out of the box but a whole lot more can be done with it once you ramp up the .NET skills. For us it meets our needs for the sort of business model we want to have i.e collaboration on an enterprise scale. JC contact me of list and I will give you a login to have a poke about with if you promise to behave as its our dev server. But will give you a better idea of what it is if you have a look. Martin Martin WP Reid Training and Assessment Unit Riddle Hall Belfast tel: 02890 974465 ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Tue 05/06/2007 19:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] This on SharePoint >My first question is: Why would you want to? Want to what? >SP is efficient and we use it extensively. What is the measure of efficiency? Storage requirements? Speed of access? Speed of development? Organization of information? Relating information? >It doesn't make sense... What doesn't make sense? I am just poking and prodding to discover what it is and why it exists. John W. Colby Colby Consulting www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 2:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] This on SharePoint My first question is: Why would you want to? SP is efficient and we use it extensively. We manage several very large IDIQ contracts with as many a 60 plus subcontractors, each with their own site, each with their own permissions. In one SP instance we have 64 subcontractors, 15 active projects and have probably managed at least 50 proposals with a total of about 300 users. We use Access on some web-parts to hold data where lists are not appropriate. We create some of our own web-parts using C#. It doesn't make sense... Jim jhewson at karta.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 12:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] This on Sharepoint It's more a condemnation of SharePoint than it is of Access, John. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 10:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] This on Sharepoint I just found this on a blog re Access 2007. Since I don't use it, I can't comment except to say, if it is true... OH MY GOD! ************************************************************ Wednesday, October 11, 2006 2:13 AM by Mike Do you know how data will be stored in SharePoint (SP) if you use SP as an Access data store? In SP there is only ONE table that your data will be stored in. That's right, if your Access program has 5 tables (or a hundred tables) stored in SharePoint, then data from the 5 (or 100) tables is intermingled into ONE table. The data table in SP is called UserData. UserData is predefined by M$ to have 201 columns: 64 nvarchar(255), 16 int, 32 float, 16 datatime, 16 bit, 1 guid, 32 ntext, and 8 sql_variant (plus 16 non-user SP internal use columns). So if you define a table in Access that has one integer column, and one varchar(10) column and store it in SP, the table really has 201 columns (but in this case only two columns will be used for your data). There a few house keeping tables that SP uses, one is called Lists. Lists is where your column names are stored. So there is a map between your column names and the predefined SP columns names of UserData. Every time your data is read the map also needs to be read so that SP can send the data to Access with the correct column names. The real columns names of UserData are (you guessed it): nvarchar1, nvarchar2 - nvarcahr64, int1 - int16, float1- float32, datatime1 - datatime16, bit1 - bit16, guid1, ntext1 - ntext32, sql_variant1 - sql_variant8. The rows of your table will be intermixed with rows from all other tables and all SP "lists". I'm not making this up! Wow, all I can say is WOW WHAT A CLUGE! It is boggling to even try to think of the performance and interaction problems that can arise from such an outright wacky scheme. If you want to use SP with Access, there should be a big bold warning: WARNING, STORING ACCESS DATA IN SHAREPOINT WACKY, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO DO THIS, FIRST GO TO THE PHYSIATRIST TO CONFIRM THAT YOU ARE CRAZY. THEN IF YOU ARE CERTIFIED CRAZY, ITS OK, YOU CAN MAKE IT WORK, JUST BE SURE THAT YOU DON'T STORE MORE THAN A FEW ROWS OF SIMPLE DATA AND FOR BEST PERFORMANCE DON'T ALLOW THE SHAREPOINT SERVER TO BE USED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR JUMBLED UP PSEUDO TABLES. Note, if you have virtual arrays of octal-hyper 100Ghz processors with 100Gs of memory (like the M$ Access team) you may find that storing Access data in the SharePoint pseudo tables may actually work during testing. Use real data on real systems at your own risk. Using SharePoint for Access data storage will be as useful as Microsoft Bob. ************************************************************ Does anyone out there know anything about this? John W. 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