Reuben Cummings
reuben at gfconsultants.com
Tue Jun 26 10:47:39 CDT 2007
We operate the same way. Any reasonable client request is simply added to our system and then all clients have that feature upon their next update. I don't customize anything because I HATE working on specific items for specific people. I tried this one time and it just never stops. That client just keeps wanting more and more ridiculous things. We have found it easier to charge a flat fee per year for licensing, support, training, and updates and simply including all changes as part of those updates. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC 812.523.1017 > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:35 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > > In our company, clients pay for the product license and they pay and > annual support fee. The fee is for support, not maintenance. We do > maintenance anyway. Customization is strictly for pay. If something > the client requests looks like it could be useful to other clients, we > may integrate it into the main product in a future release and then > there is no further customization charge for that feature. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:49 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > I would use the income from maintenance to continuously improve the core > system I use (identical at each customer). Then when they ask for > something for themselves as an improvement, it would handled as a new > project they would pay for. > > I don't know about increasing maintenance due to working on something > that was their request. I only do maintenance on the core system. > > Good Question! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > Hawkins > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:37 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > Dan, > > I've heard 20% as the golden number for maintenance contracts. But > here's the real kicker - say you're doing a custom system. You're > charging the client $x/month as a maintenance contract. Then you're > asked to build some new functionality into the system, which of course > increases the total amount spent on the system. Do you up your > maintenance contract price? > That sounds like a good way to upset a customer. > > -C- > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: "Dan Waters" <dwaters at usinternet.com> > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 8:08 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > Hi Kath, > > Kath, > > I do charge a user license fee of $500/user/year. These are concurrent > licenses. If they have 5 licenses the 6th user gets a screen which lists > the people who are currently logged in, and they are logged out. I set > up a mechanism where the administrator can change the license quantity > themselves, and I charge monthly. The amount is based on the highest > quantity for the previous month. > > I've been thinking about a maintenance fee as well. It turns out that I > do quite a bit of maintenance anyway (improvements/fixes I want to > implement). > And, it's much easier overall for your customers to get a maintenance > budget approved, than to get approval for a series of changes or > improvements. > When I started 5 years ago, I thought that managers would take budgets > somewhat personally, but it's really just a business tool. > > I've read that a typical maintenance fee is annually about 15% of the > original cost. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti > Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 7:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > I only do custom systems myself and so far have never advertised - all > word of mouth, and mostly work that originated from friends taking me > into their workplaces and recommending me to solve problem x or y. I > agree that the relationship is the thing. But I have my structure wrong > and am trying to change that. At the moment I quote for all work (and > charge for analysis to the point where I can quote). But once the system > is in I get no ongoings and that is where I have made the mistake. After > talking to otehr consultants over the last few years I am planning to > approach 3 or 4 of my clients who really rely on the systems I have > written and discuss maintenance contracts. > > I have one or 2 systems which I know could be on-sold but have never > gone down that route. I enjoy the fact that I work across multiple > industries - kills the boredom factor, though it won't make you > rich...... > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Christopher Hawkins > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 4:20 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > Anyone else care to share where they get their clients from? > > More to the point, has anyone managed to set up a system by which the > clients manage to find you? I'm trying to automate my business and this > has been a real sticking point. It seems that if I'm not out there > soliciting new business, the pipeline dries right up. > > -C- > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 6:46 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > Thanks Chris - that's worth more than 2 cents! > > There are four different groups which I attend regularly, and being at > one of them has paid off. So, I will keep doing this! > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher > Hawkins > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:07 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > Dan, > > The process of getting clients can be tough for small operators like us. > Right now I have a subcontracted team of 3 devs and it's no easier to > keep us busy than it was when I was alone. In fact, I'm thinking about > going BACK to solo dev! But that said, the most effective means of > getting clients for me has been personal contacts. It requires high > energy and a decent time investment, but it works. > > Basically, people like to do business with their friends. All things > being equal, a person will steer work to someone they like over someone > they hardly know. So you need to get yourself out to places and events > where members of the local business community tend to congreagate. Visit > those Chamber of Commerce events. Attend those trade shows. Join the > downtown revitalization committee in your town. Wherever there are > influentials, make sure you are there interacting and forging > friendships with them. > > See, small operators like us can't hide behind fancy marketing and > company names and institutional advertising like bigger firms can. When > someone hires your firm, they're hiring YOU, even if you have a team > behind you to do the heavy lifting. But in order to hire you, they have > to be exposed to and believe in you. By all means, make your business > look a little fuller than it is. But never forget that you are your own > brand. > > That's my two cents, at least. ;) > > Respectfully, > > Christopher Hawkins > Chief Developer > Cogeian Systems > (559) 687-7591 > www.cogeian.com > > ---------------------------------------- > > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:00 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > Hi Reuben, > > I also would be happy to sell this for $1, if I had some other source of > income! > > My question is - what did you do to acquire 60 clients? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben > Cummings > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > I don't do any custom programming. We have some apps that we thought up > on our own or requested by clients or potential clients. We create apps > and sell them to local government (cities and counties). > > Now were I differ from a lot of people is I don't care about the sale. > I'd be happy to sell it for $1. Actually I don't sell anything - I > license it all. I live on the service contracts for each app. We charge > anywhere from 600 to 1200 per year based on which app. I have some > clients paying as much as 4000/year. The average is about > 1000/year/client. Doesn't sound like much, but with about 60 clients > it's pretty decent income. > > And that doesn't include the consulting part of the business which is > all done by annual contract. The key is I only assume the 60k as my > income and everything over that is a "bonus" > > On our flagship app which is by far the biggest and has the most clients > I only spend about 40 hours/year in service work TOTAL - for all > clients. > They don't mind the fee because support calls, on site visits, and all > future upgrades are included in the service contract. > > If the client chooses not to pay for the service agreement on an app the > app gets removed. The can keep the data, but there isn't much to do with > it without an interface. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > 812.523.1017 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:15 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] The Business Side Of Databases > > > > > > To Everyone: > > > > It's always interesting to see how people who work independently (like > me) > > are making money from developing databases or doing something related > > to databases. > > > > This has been my major problem - I can make a great Business Process > > Management System, but getting companies to pay for it is a real > > challenge, even though their return on investment is probably 2X to 8X > > > in the first year! > > > > I do wonder if we could begin an ongoing discussion on the business > > side of what each of us does. I think we could all benefit! > > > > Does anyone have some thoughts or ideas on how we could do this? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >