William Hindman
wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com
Sun Apr 5 20:47:55 CDT 2009
...I find the FF devotees akin to any other cult group ...it has some good points, mainly, its not IE6 ...but less a few plug-ins I find useful for web work, IE8 is my development browser for the moment ...the practical matter is that IE remains the defacto user standard by far and all the geek whining in the world won't change that ...I prefer designing for 60+ % of the market on IE and then adjusting for the 20% on FF ...and I'm rather cultish about that myself :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark Simms" <marksimms at verizon.net> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 9:12 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications > Great review Ken, but again, without a super webdev IDE like Visual Studio > 2008, > I challenge anyone to be proficient in all of the below with development > via > text editor. > > Also, the cross-browser issue is huge IMHO. > IE6 renders my most favorite CSS-heavy website with no problem. > Firefox cannot render it...at all. > Told them about it 5 months ago....still no solution. > Lack of standard rendering engine just makes for web developer and > end-user > misery. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> Kenneth Ismert >> Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 5:51 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications >> >> Mark, >> >> Max gave a good outline of the skills needed to make a web >> application, and William provided good insight, too: you >> don't have to be an expert in all these categories to produce >> a good web site. >> >> A one word summary of this post would be "frameworks". For >> more words, read on. For references, go to the end. >> >> As far as the learning curve goes, I would say: >> >> 1) HTML - Easy >> You are on the standards-compliant, table-less div-based >> layout bandwagon, aren't you? Advice: build your HTML/CSS in >> FireFox using the FireBug add-in, then fix compatibility >> issues that arise with other browsers. FireFox is far and >> away the best developer's web platform out there. >> >> 2) CSS - Difficult, but getting easier -- >> Mainly because of cross-browser compatibility issues >> *cough* IE6 *cough*. >> IE6 consumed almost 2/3 of my CSS consulting time on one >> large project I was on. Blessedly, IE6 is dying, and the >> worst cross-browser issues are dying with it. Use IE7 as your >> lowest common denominator when designing standards-compliant sites. >> There is so much CSS documentation out there (a lot >> incomplete, some misleading or just plain wrong), that it can >> be hard to find the critical points you must grasp to make >> your style sheets work. Get a good book. See below. >> >> 3) Javascript/DHTML - Hard -- >> Javascript was a rushed project that instantly became the >> web client-scripting standard after it was launched, and it >> carries all the warts of its hurried design with it today. >> That means the web is awash with bad coding examples and >> confused advice on how to use it. Javascript is, at it's >> heart, Lisp with a C syntax. If you use it in a Lisp-like way >> (first-class functions, closures), you will get the highest value. >> There are an enormous number of mature Javascript >> FRAMEWORKS out there that will perform AJAX/DHTML functions >> with ease. If you are doing anything non-trivial with >> Javascript, you must choose and use one. >> Javascript is poised for a renaissance. All the significant >> browser players (MS is not a significant player) are building >> Javascript optimization technologies that will dramatically >> improve it's performance. >> Javascript will equal or exceed Silverlight's capabilities as >> an client-side web application platform. >> >> 4) Back-end database - In hand -- >> Members of this list will have no trouble building >> databases to support web apps. >> >> 5) Back-end business logic - Doable -- >> Sorry, but you can't use VBA. You'll have to use something >> newer, like PHP, Python, Ruby, or .NET. All modern web >> languages are vastly better than VBA -- once you learn one, >> VBA will strike you as limited and clumsy. >> Don't build your site from scratch using just your chosen >> language -- that's so Web 1.0! The language is secondary to >> your real choice: what web FRAMEWORK to use in that language. >> Web frameworks are a philosophical and sometimes religious >> choice, but you can choose based on breadth of support and >> applicability to the type of application you are building. >> >> 6) Graphics - Use a Mac -- >> Or find someone who does. What I'm saying is, if it's not >> your cup of tea, get a designer. GIFs are out, PNG is in. >> Don't edit a Mac-made PNG on your PC -- you'll screw up the >> gamma, and your designer will complain. >> >> 7) Web architect - No one right way -- >> Once you've mastered a subset of these skills, putting it >> all together is one of the simplest things. If you can get it >> to work, you've done it right. >> If your site is successful, you will have plenty of time to >> fix your mistakes. >> >> Books: >> JavaScript: The Good Parts -- >> http://oreilly.com/catalog/9780596517748/ -- Douglas >> Crockford Crockford, a curmudgeon and world's leading >> Javascript expert, tells you what to use in Javascript, and >> what to avoid, in a dense, slim volume. >> >> Stylin' with CSS -- http://www.stylinwithcss.com/ -- Charles >> Wyke-Smith Wyke-Smith gives a correct, fairly complete, and >> up-to-date tour of CSS, while avoiding common pitfalls. >> >> Links: >> The Browsers of 2009 -- http://css.dzone.com/news/browsers-2009 >> A cost/benefit analysis of developing for the various browser >> platforms -- the IE6 comments bear out in my experience. >> >> CSS: Specificity Wars -- >> http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/css_specificity_wars.html >> Andy Clarke gives by far the most approachable introduction >> to the CSS specificity that I've seen. If you don't >> understand specificity, you'll struggle endlessly trying to >> get your CSS to work. >> >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >