Drew Wutka
DWUTKA at Marlow.com
Mon Apr 6 16:52:18 CDT 2009
First, I said I could if I wanted to, though I prefer Microsoft Script Editor. Second, what's your point William? I think you need to join OT again and vent somewhere else. The original question was about learning to develop on the web. Not what tool is the best. I answered the original question with my personal opinion, which is that you will be a better web developer if you get a strong grasp of some of the less flashy tools. Believe you me, I've met my share of developers that were handed the keys to an SR-71 package and were recklessly gallivanting around displaying their absolute lack of knowledge..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications "there isn't anything you can't do with ASP and a client side script." Drew ...sigh ...so sayeth the Word Perfect 5.1 user re upgrading :( ...you guys who want to brag about using notepad to develop web sites ...bs! (imnsho of course) ...anything beyond basic html is a non-starter using notepad. ...and yes, you can do most things in ASP ...and a Model-T will get you to the store and back with great gas mileage ...takes a real geek to drive a Model-T every day, though ...most of us like our power windows and a/c ...not to mention not having to use the spark advance lever to get up a hill :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Drew Wutka" <DWUTKA at marlow.com> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:19 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" <accessd at databaseadvisors.com> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications > I can do ASP and HTML with notepad proficiently, though I prefer > Microsoft Script Editor. Javascript, I wouldn't call myself proficient. > I could muddle through something if I needed too, but I'm usually > googling when time is an issue. > > As for ASP.NET being overkill....yep. It has it's advantages, but there > isn't anything you can't do with ASP and a client side script. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth > Ismert > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 11:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Web Applications > > Hi, All, > > Some further responses: > > Mark, > "I challenge anyone to be proficient in all of the below with > development > via text editor." > I did it for two years using just creaky old Notepad++, and a GREP tool. > Of > course, I was using PHP/Apache/MySQL, which is suited to this > development > style. I even took a shot at writing an MVC web framework in PHP, which, > while not ready for production use, showed promising results. Almost the > whole Ruby on Rails community uses Textmate. > > Drew, > "If someone really wanted to learn to fly, I wouldn't recommend they > start > with an SR-71 either! ;)" > I have to agree with you on this one. The opinion of certain local > developers who I respect is that ASP.NET is overkill. My > 'over-the-shoulder' > view of the large ASP.NET project I was doing CSS consulting for was > that > the group of young, talented developers where creating more mess than > they > were solving. Using a super-fancy IDE doesn't absolve you of the > discipline > required to make a successful project. And if you have the discipline, > you > can do it without the super-fancy IDE. > > William, > My "minimum effort" web development strategy is: > * Use the subset of CSS 2.1 that IE7 supports > * Develop the site in FireFox/FireBug (see "Browsers of 2009" link ... > it > really is less effort to do it this way) > * Tweak the site to work in IE7 (this requires *very* few changes from > standard CSS) > * Work in IE6 to ensure the site is functional, and achieve 80%-96% of > the > look of the site in the top-tier browsers > > "...but less a few plug-ins I find useful for web work, IE8 is my > development browser for the moment ..." > I can't help but wondering whether the "few plug-ins I find useful" is > FireBug under FireFox. If IE8 provides developer tools superior to > FireBug, > I'll consider switching, too. > > "...I find the FF devotees akin to any other cult group .." > Without the FireFox gadfly, Microsoft would never have developed IE8. > This > forced forward progress is good for all. It remains to be seen whether > IE8 > will staunch the losses Microsoft continues to suffer in the browser > arena. > > "...the practical matter is that IE remains the defacto user > standard..." > The fact is there are real standards, maintained by the W3C. When you > look > at compliance to *actual* standards, FireFox/Safari/Opera/Chrome are far > better than IE, although 8 closes the gap considerably. This is the > overwhelming consensus of the standards-based web development community. > > -Ken > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the > intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the > material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. 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