Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software
rockysmolin at bchacc.com
Fri Feb 20 08:32:48 CST 2009
Uh-oh. I think John is 'bound' to take issue with that. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 5:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? John, I posted a couple of comments yesterday to you and Drew, which still haven't shown up on the list, but I'll answer the question you just asked with "It depends on how big the collection is". What I wrote yesterday is that I would use a global recordset variable, thus avoiding opening/closing the recordset repeatedly and I'd use seek. You mentioned that JET always goes across the wire and that's not true. If a page is in the local JET cache, then it won't. But here that is really not an issue because a language translation table is certainly going to be part of the front end, so the table will be local. It's not going to change unless the app changes. Rocky has been talking about pulling 2500 records; if all that is pulled into memory, that is a fair sized chunk. I'd much rather let the system use that memory as it sees fit rather then tying it up with one specific task. If I have an application that is a couple of hundred forms and user Jim D uses only one form, then that's a big waste. Of course you could mitigate that somewhat by only loading the translation when the form loads and for the specific language as you mentioned. But if every programmer were to approach application design with the "load it into memory" approach because it's fast, then very quickly you can find that the OS will start paging out to disk. So your really not in memory any more. That's why I think pulling something into memory like this is a waste. FWIW, Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? I was trying so hard to keep quiet. ;-) And how could seek over and over and over and over be any faster than sucking the results out of a collection? OK, I'll go back to being quiet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > But how could seek be any faster then simply running through the > recordset? > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Salakhetdinov Shamil > Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 3:40 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? > > You decide, Rocky, > > Do you have time for that experimenting? > > May I warn you about what is known as: > > "Premature Optimization" > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrematureOptimization > > and > > "Premature Generalization" > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrematureGeneralizationIsEvil > > ? > > Have a look: > > "Death by premature generalization" > http://ryanfarley.com/blog/archive/2004/04/30/570.aspx > > > My name is Shamil, you know :) and I have been a premature generalizer > in many cases I must admit - but I'm getting more and more XP/SCRUM > agile habits these days, and I'm getting more fun from programming > real life business tasks without my premature generalization and > optimization not so good(?) past habits... > > IMO in the case of the context of this thread using .Seek is the > closest and quickest yet good enough (and maybe the only one needed > for many years ahead) solution/transition from your existing > .FindFirst-based code... > > If that would not be good/speedy enough in your case then I'd > probaably use static array loaded on first call/after reset using > .GetRows() with accompanying static collection with > FormName/ControlName as a key to keep value for static array entry > index, and a function to get translation value using this collection/array... > > etc... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software" <rockysmolin at bchacc.com> > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem > solving'"<accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:56:55 -0800 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? > >> Dang. I think you're right. Gotta try that. You think it'll be > faster >> than SEEK? >> >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.e-z-mrp.com >> www.bchacc.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 9:33 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? >> >> Hmmmm, actually, the way you have this set up, you could do this just > fine >> without an array or collection. >> >> Instead of this: >> >> For Each ctl In frm >> rstControls.FindFirst "fldLanguageForm = '" & argForm & "' and >> fldLanguageControl = '" _ >> & ctl.Name & "'" >> >> Do this: >> >> strSQL="SELECT fldLanguageControl, fldLanguage" & > strLanguageToTranslate & " >> FROM tblYourTableName WHERE fldLanguageForm=""" & me.Name & """" >> set rs=New Recordset >> rs.open strsql,currentproject.connection, adopenkeyset,adlockreadonly > if >> rs.eof=false then rs.movefirst do until rs.eof=true >> me(rs.fields(0).value).Caption=rs.fields(1).value >> Loop >> Rs.close >> Set rs=nothing >> >> That way you are pulling the recordset up....and just running through > it >> once...instead of trying to find every record based on the control. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin at >> Beach Access Software >> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 12:57 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? >> >> John: >> >> The table layout is: >> >> fldLanguageID Autonumber >> fldLanguageForm Text Name of the form that the control is on >> fldLanguageControl Text Name of the control >> fldLanguageControlType Text Not Used >> fldLanguageEnglish Text >> fldLanguageChineseComplex Text >> fldLanguageChineseSimple Text >> fldLanguageSpanish Text >> fldLanguageFrench Text >> >> In the translate routine I use: >> >> Set frm = Forms(argForm) >> For Each ctl In frm >> rstControls.FindFirst "fldLanguageForm = '" & argForm & "' and >> fldLanguageControl = '" _ >> & ctl.Name & "'" >> >> Where argForm is the form name passed to the function. So I think I > might >> get a big boost in response time by indexing fldLanguageForm and >> fldLanguageControl. >> >> There are only about 2500 records in the table so I'm thinking that > the >> whole recordset is probably in memory anyway. >> >> >> Rocky Smolin >> Beach Access Software >> 858-259-4334 >> www.e-z-mrp.com >> www.bchacc.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 5:46 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find First in an Array? >> >> Does this imply a table structure of: >> >> TR_ID Auto >> TR_CtlName Text >> TR_L1 text (or memo?) for language 1 >> TR_L2 text (or memo?) for language 2 >> Etc >> >> I would suggest that you add a form (or container) field. A control > name is >> unique on a form, however it could be the same on different forms but > have a >> different language string. By having a form field you could pull > subsets of >> records based on the form name, then use the control name (now > guaranteed to >> be unique), then obtain the language string. >> >> It appears from your email however that you already have this stuff > set up, >> so you might be resistant to modifying how it works. >> >> If this is all just one big table with control names guaranteed to be > unique >> then you could just stash it in one big collection. There is a > problem >> however which is that classes get pretty slow as they get large. If > you get >> up past 10,000 strings (I don't know the exact point) it would bog > back >> down. If you broke it down into controls on a form, then you would > ensure >> that the total strings in any given collection is pretty small. >> >> Again I would build a class for all the code and the collection to > load one >> form. then a supervisor class to hold instances of this form class > keyed on >> form name. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Rocky Smolin at Beach Access Software wrote: >>> Max: >>> >>> That would work except the table driven approach is so much more >> easier. >>> Easy to add a language (got French and Spanish now in addition to >>> traditional and simplified Chinese), too, or make a change to a >> translation. >>> To add a language I just add a column for that language to the > Control >>> and Messages tables and send them to the translator. Add that >>> language to the language selector combo on the Preferences form, and > >>> walla! Another language. >>> >>> >>> Rocky Smolin >>> Beach Access Software >>> 858-259-4334 >>> www.e-z-mrp.com >>> www.bchacc.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in > this >> transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >> addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive >> material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the > sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether > electronic or >> hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, >> disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action >> in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than >> the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com