[AccessD] Scrum (was: Find First in an Array? ...)

Gustav Brock gustav at cactus.dk
Sat Feb 28 01:10:00 CST 2009

Hi Shamil

Not much response to your proposal ... I guess our fellow listers are too busy or just don't feel the need to experience how to work in a group. 
To be honest, neither do I have currently that need but as "you never know" I am prepared to allocate the time you suggest. That makes two. But two? Doesn't it require three "to make a crowd"?

Your adjusted description of the project fits me very well.


>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 26-02-09 10:30 >>>

Hi Gustav,

Answering your question first: I do not have experience working with ADO.NET Entity Model.

But I do have development/deployment experience of making large ASP.NET and .NET applications with thoruzands of C# classes etc.etc. Those applications do use my own light ORM (BLL <-> DAL) framework etc.etc. I have plans (if time/resources allow) to substitute this my custom ORM framework's BLL <-> DAL layer with ADO.NET Entity Model. IOW I'm quite interested to get working experience with ADO.NET Entity Framework...

Proposal: get a SCRUM team of seven people to first make as simple as possible MS Access Northwind -> .NET WinForms Northwind with MS SQL 2005 backend conversion.
As the second SCRUM project introduce ADO.NET Entity model in converted NorthWind .NET WinForms application.

As you have seen in my previous message I first wanted to make MS Access Northwind to .NET WinForms with MS Access backend conversion, then make double/switchable MS Access/MS SQL ORM layer and only then probably make switchable triple backend solution with MS Access/simple custom MS SQL ORM mapper/ADO.NET ORM mapper layer but it looks like this idea doesn't enroll any volunteers to make such SCRUM projects together and to get them pablished on AccessD...

Let's try to make transition/conversion of MS Access Northwind to .NET WinForms Northwind with MS SQL 2005 backebd and ADO.NET Entiry Model ORM mapping in two distributed SCRUM projects? 

I mean doing all that investigation/self-education work alone is rather boring, and time consuming - I'd expect if we try to make it SCRUM-way that would be some fun, and when we get in flow mode that would go much faster than one can imagine fighting with all that new technologies alone...

But it's important to note that every SCRUM team member should make a commitment to invest up to five hours within working week into this "joint investigation public project" otherwise it will not work...

Anybody to join? Or at least to start talking here about other options to make such a SCRUM project reality? Are five hours investment looking too much? Is SCRUM looking something like is not needed at all in such a context? All and every comments are very welcome...
Thank you.


P.S. I do think that with nowadays mainstream trend of computing power getting moved into "skies" ("clouds" :) ) and boradband wireless Internet connections getting routine infrastructure everywhere in this World, it would soon become an affrodable for every even small, even one man software development shop to promptly unite with other shops when needed into "virtual" teams to develop an urgent to be released project using agile and SCRUM distributed way - small non-profit/investigation projects could be done that way right now - doing them that way would be much more effective than just discussing the ways and posting short samples how this or that feature/technology coudl be used in real life projects...

You can call me a naive deamer...

Please remeber I started to promote DEEP-object concept/WithEvents in 1998:


That were rather naive tries as far as I see them now but anyway one article was promptly published in Smart Access:


Another was prepared to publication but didn't get published because of my being inexperienced with publishing editors:

As you can see from what happens here in Access-D nowadays my naive tries were made in proper direction, maybe too early for mainstream VB/VBA development...

I call them naive tries because that were a kind of sub-case of Observer/MVC Object Pattern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_pattern_(computer_science)) which was already known that times but which I was unware about (BTW nowadays well-known implementations of Observer/MVC object pattern are ASP.NET MVC (http://www.asp.net/mvc/) and partially, I believe/guess, but I do not know for sure - Ruby on Rails (http://rubyonrails.org/)...

I think that one of nowadays's trends is distributed agile/SCRUM projects development - I'm not the only one who thinks so (google it!), and this trend will soon become one of mainstream development practices with the developers being experienced/skilled to work this way getting more competetive than the others...

I still can be wrong, I do not pretend on overgeneralizations - please tell me if my current tries to make a trial investigation SCRUM team enrolling AccessD members into it look naive and too ambitious...

You're all busy developers I know, I also am... :)

Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Gustav Brock" <Gustav at cactus.dk><~!B*+R^&>To: <accessd at databaseadvisors.com><~!B*+R^&>Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:08:35 +0100
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum (was: Find First in an Array? ...)

> Hi Charlotte
> Yes, even though datatables are strongly typed, I would like to move further and the ADO.NET Entity Model offers that. However, wether this represents _the_ solution or if one should go with "my own" datasets or something else, there are many opinions about.
> So to find out, I'm working on a small project now where I use the ADO.NET Entity Model. 
> Do you - or anyone else here - have experience with this?
> /gustav
> >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 25-02-2009 23:37 >>>
> Gustav,
> You really need to get familiar with strongly typed datasets in .Net.
> You can build data entity classes that inherit the typed datasets and
> then program against the data entity instead of directly against
> tableadapters and datatables.
> Charlotte Foust
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:24 PM
> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com 
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Scrum (was: Find First in an Array? ...)
> Hi Shamil
> That could be an interesting exercise - all these tools would be new to
> me, and converting an Access app to .NET WinForms will probably be a
> task we all will face sooner or later (William is all about it, so he
> says). I have only done WinForms from scratch.
> One discussion will be how to perform data binding. Having used only
> datatableadapters and datatables, I find all the SqlClient and
> SqlCommand stuff for totally waste of time while I on the other hand
> currently is struggling with the ADO.NET Entity Model as it looks
> promising to me for many purposes. A bit like the tag/class discussion
> ... which I stayed off as I've never used a Tag for anything.
> /gustav
> -- 
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> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
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> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com

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