From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Jun 1 06:51:04 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 07:51:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <098340710A644C58A6895C1A41CAAA67@XPS> Rocky, If you want something a little more then just the font (meaning you do all the work as far as calculating check digits, controlling the formatting, etc), something I've been using for quite a few years is: http://www.abarcode.net/en/access.asp I haven't used the Active-x version, but the report version. Never had a problem with it and I've never bumped into anything I could not do with it. Labels produced with it have under gone numerous outside certification processes and I've never had an issue caused by the program. There are others out there like this as well. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From JHewson at nciinc.com Mon Jun 1 07:55:06 2009 From: JHewson at nciinc.com (Hewson, Jim ) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 07:55:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com> My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they will use. Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get a list of codes the reader can decipher. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com ################################################################################ If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ################################################################################ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 08:13:26 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 06:13:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <098340710A644C58A6895C1A41CAAA67@XPS> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> <098340710A644C58A6895C1A41CAAA67@XPS> Message-ID: <7778F162FDDD4A08BAE68E05746484B6@HAL9005> Looks like it would do the job - but pricey - $99 for each user or $950 for distribution rights. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes Rocky, If you want something a little more then just the font (meaning you do all the work as far as calculating check digits, controlling the formatting, etc), something I've been using for quite a few years is: http://www.abarcode.net/en/access.asp I haven't used the Active-x version, but the report version. Never had a problem with it and I've never bumped into anything I could not do with it. Labels produced with it have under gone numerous outside certification processes and I've never had an issue caused by the program. There are others out there like this as well. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com Mon Jun 1 08:20:29 2009 From: Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:20:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the Security tab. Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." Click OK and sit back and wait. Should sort things out for you. HTH Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, which I cannot detach because... it is read only. Sigh. So... this invites MANY questions... 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on that disk drive? 2) Why are the files read only? 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it non-readonly? 4)Why did all of this happen? 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for that. In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). Any words of wisdom out there? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 08:26:38 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:26:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: No Security Tab on my PCs Lambert. I get General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Quota Max On 6/1/09, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the Security > tab. > > Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' > access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. > > Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' > tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to > 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. > > Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to > 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." > > Click OK and sit back and wait. > > Should sort things out for you. > > HTH > > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, New > SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the > raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a > database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error which I Googled > and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took ownership which > worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it > couldn't because the files were read only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, which > I cannot detach because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on > that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I detach > it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it > non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a second > server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New > motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the server I rebuilt > this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be rebuilt next. Obviously if > there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for > that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use that > clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all the > multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to end up with > two literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some > additional storage (and a next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 08:42:25 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 06:42:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com> Message-ID: <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the most universal format - Code 39? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they will use. Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get a list of codes the reader can decipher. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com ############################################################################ #### If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ############################################################################ #### -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com Mon Jun 1 08:53:47 2009 From: Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:53:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: You probably have 'simplified file sharing' turned on (the default I think). In Windows XP open an explorer window and select 'Folder options' on the 'Tools' menu. Then select the 'View' tab and scroll down to the bottom of the list in the 'Advanced Settings' area. There you will find the 'Use simple file sharing (Recommended)' option. Clear the check box, and then reboot. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") No Security Tab on my PCs Lambert. I get General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Quota Max On 6/1/09, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the > Security tab. > > Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' > access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. > > Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' > tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to > 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. > > Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to > 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." > > Click OK and sit back and wait. > > Should sort things out for you. > > HTH > > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 > X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on > the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to > attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error > which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took > ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach > and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files > on that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how > do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid > week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the > server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to > prevent this mess I am all for that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use > that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all > the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to > end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second > machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at nciinc.com Mon Jun 1 08:57:53 2009 From: JHewson at nciinc.com (Hewson, Jim ) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 08:57:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com> <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD8F@sanex101.nciinc.com> In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. And since it's a font its really easy to use. Rocky = Rocky Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the most universal format - Code 39? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they will use. Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get a list of codes the reader can decipher. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com ######################################################################## #### #### If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ######################################################################## #### #### -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ################################################################################ If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ################################################################################ From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Jun 1 08:51:14 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:51:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <7778F162FDDD4A08BAE68E05746484B6@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> <098340710A644C58A6895C1A41CAAA67@XPS> <7778F162FDDD4A08BAE68E05746484B6@HAL9005> Message-ID: <6362553396014192A3313800E5DB7F32@XPS> Rocky, <> Somewhat, but it really depends on your needs. If your simply doing one bar code project with one of the more common symbologies (UPC, 3 of 9, or 2 of 5), for which there are fonts for, then it is definitely overkill. But if you plan to use bar coding in a wide range of apps on a regular basis then you most likely would want something like it. I happen to use it for one client that needs a variety of symbologies, so it was an easy decision. $995 represents about 14 hours of work for me, and I could not see duplicating what it offered with two days worth of work. Keep in mind that if you use a font, you need to do all the work yourself; calculating of check digits, putting in guard characters, formatting the human readable, scaling, etc. The font just gives you the bars, not the bar code for a given string. But all of that is not all that difficult to do and the specs, calculations, etc. are all freely available on the net. However you will spend some time working on it. How much time depends on what you need to do. If you plan to do only one particular type and only with one app, then I would go the font route. But if your going to do more then that, then your going to need something similar to abarcode. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes Looks like it would do the job - but pricey - $99 for each user or $950 for distribution rights. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:51 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes Rocky, If you want something a little more then just the font (meaning you do all the work as far as calculating check digits, controlling the formatting, etc), something I've been using for quite a few years is: http://www.abarcode.net/en/access.asp I haven't used the Active-x version, but the report version. Never had a problem with it and I've never bumped into anything I could not do with it. Labels produced with it have under gone numerous outside certification processes and I've never had an issue caused by the program. There are others out there like this as well. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 4:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Jun 1 09:05:29 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 10:05:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com> <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS> I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can scan just about anything now a days), but the application. For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling test tubes in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless you have space restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, which is for high-density applications. You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to determine the Symbology, type of label material, printing process, and the type reader that will be required. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the most universal format - Code 39? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they will use. Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get a list of codes the reader can decipher. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com ############################################################################ #### If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ############################################################################ #### -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Jun 1 11:01:48 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:01:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Locking Up a Form Message-ID: <4A23FB6C.7060907@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All What tricks do you employ to restrict a user to use your navigation buttons on a single form and also to prevent them from crashing a single form??? Just wondering because there are so many exotic combinations and kind of hard to catch all. I have the general stuff PGUp,PGDown, UpArrow and DownArrow disabled Ctrl F (sometimes P) and Ctrl F10 disabled Transparent buttons No mouse scroll Return to the Main Menu to close the application, can't use the Close (X) button on the app. window. Use Access Special Keys disabled Thanks From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 1 11:43:13 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:43:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com><6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> <5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS> Message-ID: Rocky ...I use idautomation's free 39 barcode font to print badges and labels for one client ...that site has a ton of free information a lot of which is worth reading ...but the long and short of it is unless your client is doing something special or sophisticated, the 39 freebie font and very little code will almost certainly do what she needs ...I've used it in both Access reports and Word without any problem for several years now. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Dettman" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:05 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can scan > just about anything now a days), but the application. > > For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. > Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling test > tubes > in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless you have space > restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, which is for > high-density applications. > > You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to determine the > Symbology, type of label material, printing process, and the type reader > that will be required. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not sure > she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So I'll have > to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the most universal > format - Code 39? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they will > use. > Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get a > list of codes the reader can decipher. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > Dear List: > > I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling > reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar > code > symbology? > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > ############################################################################ > #### > If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender > immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this > information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information > from > NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or > confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. > ############################################################################ > #### > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 11:53:46 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:53:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com><6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005><5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS> Message-ID: Yeah that looks good. Thanks. Do you print the bar code directly from the data or did you have to code for your own Start, Stop, and Check zones? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes Rocky ...I use idautomation's free 39 barcode font to print badges and labels for one client ...that site has a ton of free information a lot of which is worth reading ...but the long and short of it is unless your client is doing something special or sophisticated, the 39 freebie font and very little code will almost certainly do what she needs ...I've used it in both Access reports and Word without any problem for several years now. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Dettman" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:05 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can > scan just about anything now a days), but the application. > > For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. > Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling test > tubes in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless you have > space restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, which is > for high-density applications. > > You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to determine > the Symbology, type of label material, printing process, and the type > reader that will be required. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not > sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So > I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the > most universal format - Code 39? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they > will use. > Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get > a list of codes the reader can decipher. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > Dear List: > > I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling > reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar > code symbology? > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > ###################################################################### > ###### > #### > If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender > immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of > this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains > information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered > privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named > recipient. > ###################################################################### > ###### > #### > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Jun 1 12:39:06 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:39:06 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?T1Q6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBTUUwgU2VydmVyIDIwMDggUmVw?= =?koi8-r?b?b3J0aW5nIFNlcnZpY2VzIFJlcG9ydCBCdWlsZGVyIDIuMA==?= Message-ID: Hi All, Do you know will the subject tool work with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services assumimng I will not use the new features unavailable in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0? BTW, I can't find where can I get Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0 downloaded - could you please advise? Thank you. -- Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 13:26:28 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:26:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a241d58.1818d00a.56af.700b@mx.google.com> I will check that tomorrow at work on my XP. Any idea of how to do it in Vist. Folder Options doesn't have an Advanced Button or Tab. Just, General, View and Search and cannot see anything similar. Thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: 01 June 2009 14:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Stalklinga, Asa at UNAT Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") You probably have 'simplified file sharing' turned on (the default I think). In Windows XP open an explorer window and select 'Folder options' on the 'Tools' menu. Then select the 'View' tab and scroll down to the bottom of the list in the 'Advanced Settings' area. There you will find the 'Use simple file sharing (Recommended)' option. Clear the check box, and then reboot. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") No Security Tab on my PCs Lambert. I get General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Quota Max On 6/1/09, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the > Security tab. > > Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' > access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. > > Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' > tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to > 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. > > Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to > 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." > > Click OK and sit back and wait. > > Should sort things out for you. > > HTH > > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 > X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on > the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to > attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error > which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took > ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach > and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files > on that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how > do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid > week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the > server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to > prevent this mess I am all for that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use > that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all > the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to > end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second > machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com Mon Jun 1 13:57:08 2009 From: Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:57:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4a241d58.1818d00a.56af.700b@mx.google.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <4a241d58.1818d00a.56af.700b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I will have to check on my Vista virtual machine when I get home. I know in Windows 7 the setting is pretty much the same as in XP. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I will check that tomorrow at work on my XP. Any idea of how to do it in Vist. Folder Options doesn't have an Advanced Button or Tab. Just, General, View and Search and cannot see anything similar. Thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: 01 June 2009 14:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Stalklinga, Asa at UNAT Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") You probably have 'simplified file sharing' turned on (the default I think). In Windows XP open an explorer window and select 'Folder options' on the 'Tools' menu. Then select the 'View' tab and scroll down to the bottom of the list in the 'Advanced Settings' area. There you will find the 'Use simple file sharing (Recommended)' option. Clear the check box, and then reboot. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") No Security Tab on my PCs Lambert. I get General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Quota Max On 6/1/09, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the > Security tab. > > Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' > access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. > > Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' > tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to > 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. > > Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to > 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." > > Click OK and sit back and wait. > > Should sort things out for you. > > HTH > > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 > X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on > the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to > attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error > which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took > ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach > and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files > on that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how > do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid > week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the > server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to > prevent this mess I am all for that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use > that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all > the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to > end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second > machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 14:09:20 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:09:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <4a241d58.1818d00a.56af.700b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a242764.1c07d00a.0d55.3e10@mx.google.com> Thank you. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: 01 June 2009 19:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I will have to check on my Vista virtual machine when I get home. I know in Windows 7 the setting is pretty much the same as in XP. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I will check that tomorrow at work on my XP. Any idea of how to do it in Vist. Folder Options doesn't have an Advanced Button or Tab. Just, General, View and Search and cannot see anything similar. Thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: 01 June 2009 14:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Stalklinga, Asa at UNAT Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") You probably have 'simplified file sharing' turned on (the default I think). In Windows XP open an explorer window and select 'Folder options' on the 'Tools' menu. Then select the 'View' tab and scroll down to the bottom of the list in the 'Advanced Settings' area. There you will find the 'Use simple file sharing (Recommended)' option. Clear the check box, and then reboot. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") No Security Tab on my PCs Lambert. I get General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Quota Max On 6/1/09, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the > Security tab. > > Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' > access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. > > Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' > tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to > 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. > > Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to > 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." > > Click OK and sit back and wait. > > Should sort things out for you. > > HTH > > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 > X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on > the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to > attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error > which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took > ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach > and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files > on that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how > do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid > week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the > server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to > prevent this mess I am all for that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use > that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all > the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to > end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second > machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Jun 1 14:19:29 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:19:29 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?T1Q6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBTUUwgU2VydmVyIDIwMDggUmVw?= =?koi8-r?b?b3J0aW5nIFNlcnZpY2VzIFJlcG9ydCBCdWlsZGVyIDIuMA==?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All, The subject tool, which can be downloaded here: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9f783224-9871-4eea-b1d5-f3140a253db6&displaylang=en doesn't work with MS SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services. But I have found(!-)) I have MS Report Builder 1.0 already installed on my system at: C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server 2005\MSSQL.4\Reporting Services\ReportServer\ReportBuilder\ReportBuilder.exe and it works well. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Salakhetdinov Shamil To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:39:06 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 > Hi All, > > Do you know will the subject tool work with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services assumimng I will not use the new features unavailable in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0? > > BTW, I can't find where can I get Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0 downloaded - could you please advise? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 1 14:59:05 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:59:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com><6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005><5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS> Message-ID: <4627F357F3754902814BA4175EBB6DDC@jislaptopdev> ...I concatenate it with the data in the source as in: =("!" & [ContactID] & "!") ...that works with every scanner we've tried so far. ...the only thing about the idautomation freebie is it only comes in the one size ...it works fine for my needs but if your client needs a different size then you have to either buy it or experiment with some of the free bar code fonts ...I tried a few with very mixed results and finally decided to stop wasting my time and go with idautomation since it worked no matter what I did ...that's not to suggest that there are not other very good freebie fonts ...just that I probably didn't look long enough to find them myself ...like you, a client needed something to work reliably on short order ...this filled in the blanks for me ...hth. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:53 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > Yeah that looks good. Thanks. Do you print the bar code directly from the > data or did you have to code for your own Start, Stop, and Check zones? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:43 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > Rocky > > ...I use idautomation's free 39 barcode font to print badges and labels > for > one client ...that site has a ton of free information a lot of which is > worth reading ...but the long and short of it is unless your client is > doing > something special or sophisticated, the 39 freebie font and very little > code > will almost certainly do what she needs ...I've used it in both Access > reports and Word without any problem for several years now. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Dettman" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:05 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > >> >> I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can >> scan just about anything now a days), but the application. >> >> For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. >> Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling test >> tubes in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless you have >> space restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, which is >> for high-density applications. >> >> You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to determine >> the Symbology, type of label material, printing process, and the type >> reader that will be required. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not >> sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So >> I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the >> most universal format - Code 39? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they >> will use. >> Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get >> a list of codes the reader can decipher. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling >> reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar >> code symbology? >> >> MTIA >> >> >> >> Rocky Smolin >> >> Beach Access Software >> >> 858-259-4334 >> >> www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> www.bchacc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ###################################################################### >> ###### >> #### >> If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender >> immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of >> this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains >> information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered >> privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named >> recipient. >> ###################################################################### >> ###### >> #### >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 1 15:08:56 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:08:56 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 Message-ID: Hi Shamil http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sqlreportingservices/thread/3ad940c7-311a-4407-b341-07f5cc238014 Report Builder 1.0 is available in the box in either SQL 2005 or SQL 2008. It is not available as a separate client apps and is only avilable as a click once application. That means that on the same Report server you will not be able to mix and match RB1.0 and RB2.0 being luanch form the server using Clickonce. >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 01-06-2009 19:39:06 >>> Hi All, Do you know will the subject tool work with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services assumimng I will not use the new features unavailable in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0? BTW, I can't find where can I get Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0 downloaded - could you please advise? Thank you. -- Shamil From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Jun 1 15:35:50 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:35:50 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?T1Q6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBTUUwgU2VydmVyIDIwMDggUmVw?= =?koi8-r?b?b3J0aW5nU2VydmljZXMJUmVwb3J0IEJ1aWxkZXIgMi4w?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Thank you for your feedback. I didn't need to use Click-Once to run Report Builder 1.0 - I just wanted to find where can I get it downloaded to run on my development PC. And as I have already reported in my other e-mail g=here I have got it occasionally (:)) found in: C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server 2005\MSSQL.4\Reporting Services\ReportServer\ReportBuilder\ReportBuilder.exe (one can find there also click-once "tear-down" ReportBuilder.exe.application file and manifest ) and ReportBuilder.exe runs well, with only issue that I somehow can design but can't run a report within it (something with permissions I do not understand currently) but I can save this report in Reporting Services and run there. I have also got installed MS Report Builder 2.0 from standalone setup, and it installed well but it doesn't run at all with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:08:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 > Hi Shamil > > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sqlreportingservices/thread/3ad940c7-311a-4407-b341-07f5cc238014 > > > Report Builder 1.0 is available in the box in either SQL 2005 or SQL 2008. > It is not available as a separate client apps and is only avilable as a click once application. > That means that on the same Report server you will not be able to mix and match RB1.0 and RB2.0 being luanch form the server using Clickonce. > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 01-06-2009 19:39:06 >>> > Hi All, > > Do you know will the subject tool work with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services assumimng I will not use the new features unavailable in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0? > > BTW, I can't find where can I get Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0 downloaded - could you please advise? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 15:42:06 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:42:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <4627F357F3754902814BA4175EBB6DDC@jislaptopdev> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com><6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005><5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS> <4627F357F3754902814BA4175EBB6DDC@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4229D549725342B5A378CB6E9AD08DC4@HAL9005> "only comes in the one size" meaning you can't size the font for bigger or smaller bar codes? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes ...I concatenate it with the data in the source as in: =("!" & [ContactID] & "!") ...that works with every scanner we've tried so far. ...the only thing about the idautomation freebie is it only comes in the one size ...it works fine for my needs but if your client needs a different size then you have to either buy it or experiment with some of the free bar code fonts ...I tried a few with very mixed results and finally decided to stop wasting my time and go with idautomation since it worked no matter what I did ...that's not to suggest that there are not other very good freebie fonts ...just that I probably didn't look long enough to find them myself ...like you, a client needed something to work reliably on short order ...this filled in the blanks for me ...hth. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:53 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > Yeah that looks good. Thanks. Do you print the bar code directly from the > data or did you have to code for your own Start, Stop, and Check zones? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:43 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > Rocky > > ...I use idautomation's free 39 barcode font to print badges and labels > for > one client ...that site has a ton of free information a lot of which is > worth reading ...but the long and short of it is unless your client is > doing > something special or sophisticated, the 39 freebie font and very little > code > will almost certainly do what she needs ...I've used it in both Access > reports and Word without any problem for several years now. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Dettman" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:05 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > >> >> I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can >> scan just about anything now a days), but the application. >> >> For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. >> Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling test >> tubes in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless you have >> space restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, which is >> for high-density applications. >> >> You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to determine >> the Symbology, type of label material, printing process, and the type >> reader that will be required. >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not >> sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So >> I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the >> most universal format - Code 39? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they >> will use. >> Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get >> a list of codes the reader can decipher. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> Dear List: >> >> I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling >> reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar >> code symbology? >> >> MTIA >> >> >> >> Rocky Smolin >> >> Beach Access Software >> >> 858-259-4334 >> >> www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> www.bchacc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ###################################################################### >> ###### >> #### >> If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender >> immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of >> this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains >> information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered >> privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named >> recipient. >> ###################################################################### >> ###### >> #### >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Mon Jun 1 15:46:46 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 15:46:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the files/partitions will be 'foreign'. I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS security flags. So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is what! Just my two cents though.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:07 PM To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, which I cannot detach because... it is read only. Sigh. So... this invites MANY questions... 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on that disk drive? 2) Why are the files read only? 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it non-readonly? 4)Why did all of this happen? 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for that. In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). Any words of wisdom out there? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 1 15:54:59 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:54:59 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 Message-ID: Hi Shamil OK, but aren't you just facing the issue/limitation described here: > That means that on the same Report server you will not be able to > mix and match RB1.0 and RB2.0 being luanch form the server using Clickonce. /gustav >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 01-06-2009 22:35:50 >>> Hi Gustav, Thank you for your feedback. I didn't need to use Click-Once to run Report Builder 1.0 - I just wanted to find where can I get it downloaded to run on my development PC. And as I have already reported in my other e-mail g=here I have got it occasionally (:)) found in: C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server 2005\MSSQL.4\Reporting Services\ReportServer\ReportBuilder\ReportBuilder.exe (one can find there also click-once "tear-down" ReportBuilder.exe.application file and manifest ) and ReportBuilder.exe runs well, with only issue that I somehow can design but can't run a report within it (something with permissions I do not understand currently) but I can save this report in Reporting Services and run there. I have also got installed MS Report Builder 2.0 from standalone setup, and it installed well but it doesn't run at all with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:08:56 +0200 Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 > Hi Shamil > > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sqlreportingservices/thread/3ad940c7-311a-4407-b341-07f5cc238014 > > > Report Builder 1.0 is available in the box in either SQL 2005 or SQL 2008. > It is not available as a separate client apps and is only avilable as a click once application. > That means that on the same Report server you will not be able to mix and match RB1.0 and RB2.0 being luanch form the server using Clickonce. > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 01-06-2009 19:39:06 >>> > Hi All, > > Do you know will the subject tool work with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services assumimng I will not use the new features unavailable in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0? > > BTW, I can't find where can I get Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0 downloaded - could you please advise? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 1 15:59:52 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:59:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com><6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005><5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS><4627F357F3754902814BA4175EBB6DDC@jislaptopdev> <4229D549725342B5A378CB6E9AD08DC4@HAL9005> Message-ID: ...dl it and play with it ...that way we won't talk around ourselves ...id offers it as a font pack in smaller and larger sizes ...clarity is critical for bar code fonts since they are being machine read ...its one of the reasons some of the freebie barcode fonts work at one size and not in another, they're not as carefully made and tested. ...the idautomation font comes with some sample Access code and you can even get an ocx from them ...but its overkill for most needs. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:42 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > "only comes in the one size" meaning you can't size the font for bigger or > smaller bar codes? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > ...I concatenate it with the data in the source as in: =("!" & [ContactID] > & > "!") > ...that works with every scanner we've tried so far. > > ...the only thing about the idautomation freebie is it only comes in the > one > size ...it works fine for my needs but if your client needs a different > size > then you have to either buy it or experiment with some of the free bar > code > fonts ...I tried a few with very mixed results and finally decided to stop > wasting my time and go with idautomation since it worked no matter what I > did ...that's not to suggest that there are not other very good freebie > fonts ...just that I probably didn't look long enough to find them myself > ...like you, a client needed something to work reliably on short order > ...this filled in the blanks for me ...hth. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:53 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > >> Yeah that looks good. Thanks. Do you print the bar code directly from >> the >> data or did you have to code for your own Start, Stop, and Check zones? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:43 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> Rocky >> >> ...I use idautomation's free 39 barcode font to print badges and labels >> for >> one client ...that site has a ton of free information a lot of which is >> worth reading ...but the long and short of it is unless your client is >> doing >> something special or sophisticated, the 39 freebie font and very little >> code >> will almost certainly do what she needs ...I've used it in both Access >> reports and Word without any problem for several years now. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jim Dettman" >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:05 AM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >>> >>> I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can >>> scan just about anything now a days), but the application. >>> >>> For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. >>> Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling test >>> tubes in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless you have >>> space restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, which is >>> for high-density applications. >>> >>> You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to determine >>> the Symbology, type of label material, printing process, and the type >>> reader that will be required. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >>> >>> That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not >>> sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So >>> I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the >>> most universal format - Code 39? >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim >>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >>> >>> My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they >>> will use. >>> Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get >>> a list of codes the reader can decipher. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes >>> >>> Dear List: >>> >>> I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling >>> reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar >>> code symbology? >>> >>> MTIA >>> >>> >>> >>> Rocky Smolin >>> >>> Beach Access Software >>> >>> 858-259-4334 >>> >>> www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> www.bchacc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ###################################################################### >>> ###### >>> #### >>> If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender >>> immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of >>> this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains >>> information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered >>> privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named >>> recipient. >>> ###################################################################### >>> ###### >>> #### >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 16:04:39 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:04:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005><7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com><6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005><5D99C2D2087E423C8FB005106E1BF6B4@XPS><4627F357F3754902814BA4175EBB6DDC@jislaptopdev><4229D549725342B5A378CB6E9AD08DC4@HAL9005> Message-ID: OK, I'm sold. The prospect, if they even they buy my system, may or may not do bar codes anyway. So I'll just wait for them. Just wanted to have my ducks lined up. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes ...dl it and play with it ...that way we won't talk around ourselves ...id offers it as a font pack in smaller and larger sizes ...clarity is critical for bar code fonts since they are being machine read ...its one of the reasons some of the freebie barcode fonts work at one size and not in another, they're not as carefully made and tested. ...the idautomation font comes with some sample Access code and you can even get an ocx from them ...but its overkill for most needs. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:42 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > "only comes in the one size" meaning you can't size the font for > bigger or smaller bar codes? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > ...I concatenate it with the data in the source as in: =("!" & > [ContactID] & > "!") > ...that works with every scanner we've tried so far. > > ...the only thing about the idautomation freebie is it only comes in > the one size ...it works fine for my needs but if your client needs a > different size then you have to either buy it or experiment with some > of the free bar code fonts ...I tried a few with very mixed results > and finally decided to stop wasting my time and go with idautomation > since it worked no matter what I did ...that's not to suggest that > there are not other very good freebie fonts ...just that I probably > didn't look long enough to find them myself ...like you, a client > needed something to work reliably on short order ...this filled in the > blanks for me ...hth. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:53 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > >> Yeah that looks good. Thanks. Do you print the bar code directly >> from the data or did you have to code for your own Start, Stop, and >> Check zones? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:43 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> Rocky >> >> ...I use idautomation's free 39 barcode font to print badges and >> labels for one client ...that site has a ton of free information a >> lot of which is worth reading ...but the long and short of it is >> unless your client is doing something special or sophisticated, the >> 39 freebie font and very little code will almost certainly do what >> she needs ...I've used it in both Access reports and Word without any >> problem for several years now. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jim Dettman" >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:05 AM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >>> >>> I would not say it's the reader that's important (most readers can >>> scan just about anything now a days), but the application. >>> >>> For example, in retail it's always going to be UPC-A, possibly -E. >>> Distribution of goods will use UCC-EAN128. But if your labeling >>> test tubes in a lab, then it's probably going to be 3 of 9, unless >>> you have space restrictions. Then you might end up using Code 128, >>> which is for high-density applications. >>> >>> You need to fully spec out how and where it will be used to >>> determine the Symbology, type of label material, printing process, >>> and the type reader that will be required. >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:42 AM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >>> >>> That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm >>> not sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing >>> labels. So I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. >>> What's the most universal format - Code 39? >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, >>> Jim >>> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >>> >>> My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they >>> will use. >>> Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. >>> Get a list of codes the reader can decipher. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes >>> >>> Dear List: >>> >>> I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of >>> Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a >>> preferred bar code symbology? >>> >>> MTIA >>> >>> >>> >>> Rocky Smolin >>> >>> Beach Access Software >>> >>> 858-259-4334 >>> >>> www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> www.bchacc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> #################################################################### >>> ## >>> ###### >>> #### >>> If you have received this message in error, please contact the >>> sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or >>> dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email >>> transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. >>> that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended >>> solely for the named recipient. >>> #################################################################### >>> ## >>> ###### >>> #### >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Jun 1 16:19:39 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:19:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD8F@sanex101.nciinc.com> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005>, <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD8F@sanex101.nciinc.com> Message-ID: <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need the guard characters for Code 39. Rocky = "*" & Rocky & "*" :-) On 1 Jun 2009 at 8:57, Hewson, Jim wrote: > In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. > > And since it's a font its really easy to use. > > Rocky = Rocky > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 16:31:49 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:31:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005>, <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD8F@sanex101.nciinc.com> <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4BC82A8100AE4A27B110710B280C59DD@HAL9005> That's the start and stop code? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes You need the guard characters for Code 39. Rocky = "*" & Rocky & "*" :-) On 1 Jun 2009 at 8:57, Hewson, Jim wrote: > In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. > > And since it's a font its really easy to use. > > Rocky = Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 1 16:52:56 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:52:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A244DB8.8000901@colbyconsulting.com> If it is so easy to set up, what would you charge me to remote in to my system and help me set it up? Would I be able to maintain a domain by myself? I am definitely not a notwork guy. I have a workgroup with NINE machines on it. I have Windows Home Server (Windows 2003), a Vista (Ultimate) based Windows Media Center machine, another Vista (Ultimate) machine on my development laptop, TWO Server 2003 X64 based SQL Servers (I am rebuilding both of them last / this week), and about 4 Windows XP Pro machines including my wife's laptop, my son's laptop, a game machine, and a Piano / BandInABox workstation. I currently use my hardware router / firewall as the dhcp server. The Windows Home Server is the only machine that is on and connected 24/7/365, though I could leave one of the SQL Server machines on all the time as well I suppose. And while WHS runs Windows 2003, I am not sure they particularly want it running as the domain controller. Not that I care what they want. ;) To be honest I have not heard good things about trying to run a domain in a home office but I am willing to listen. As for "recovering the data" I use Areca RAID Controllers running RAID 6 arrays, and the servers WERE running on a partition on the RAID array. I doubt that bios calls will make it through hardware raid controllers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If > you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't > automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is > because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same > as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the > files/partitions will be 'foreign'. > > I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide > security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't > encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, > which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a > drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' > of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't > use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very > handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files > through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an > NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to > read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS > security flags. > > So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if > you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are > using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a > domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and > groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter > what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, > and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your > permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make > home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS > servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and > provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is > what! > > Just my two cents though.... > > Drew From mcp2004 at mail.ru Mon Jun 1 17:51:12 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:51:12 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?T1Q6IE1pY3Jvc29mdCBTUUwgU2VydmVyIDIwMDggUmVw?= =?koi8-r?b?b3J0aW5nU2VydmljZXMJUmVwb3J0IEJ1aWxkZXIgMi4w?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, I don't know about Click-Once "mix and match" - but AFAIK MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services' Server is available to the "outer world" (as e.g. Report Buiider 1.0) via an ASP.NET Web Service, and I guess (I can only guess as I haven't seen that) that MS SQL 2008 Reporting Services' Server is also available to the "outer world" via ASP.NET WebService or via WCF Service - therefore Report Builder 2.0 expects different communication protocol with reporting service and it "doesn't see/doesn't understand/can't communicate at all" with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Service... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:54:59 +0200 Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting Services Report Builder 2.0 > Hi Shamil > > OK, but aren't you just facing the issue/limitation described here: > > > That means that on the same Report server you will not be able to > > mix and match RB1.0 and RB2.0 being luanch form the server using Clickonce. > > /gustav > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 01-06-2009 22:35:50 >>> > > Hi Gustav, > > Thank you for your feedback. > > I didn't need to use Click-Once to run Report Builder 1.0 - I just wanted to find where can I get it downloaded to run on my development PC. And as I have already reported in my other e-mail g=here I have got it occasionally (:)) found in: > > C:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL Server 2005\MSSQL.4\Reporting Services\ReportServer\ReportBuilder\ReportBuilder.exe > (one can find there also click-once "tear-down" ReportBuilder.exe.application file and manifest ) > > and ReportBuilder.exe runs well, with only issue that I somehow can design but can't run a report within it (something with permissions I do not understand currently) but I can save this report in Reporting Services and run there. > > I have also got installed MS Report Builder 2.0 from standalone setup, and it installed well but it doesn't run at all with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: > Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:08:56 +0200 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Microsoft SQL Server 2008 Reporting > Services Report Builder 2.0 > > > Hi Shamil > > > > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/sqlreportingservices/thread/3ad940c7-311a-4407-b341-07f5cc238014 > > > > > > Report Builder 1.0 is available in the box in either SQL 2005 or SQL 2008. > > It is not available as a separate client apps and is only avilable as a click once application. > > That means that on the same Report server you will not be able to mix and match RB1.0 and RB2.0 being luanch form the server using Clickonce. > > > > > > >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 01-06-2009 19:39:06 >>> > > Hi All, > > > > Do you know will the subject tool work with MS SQL 2005 Reporting Services assumimng I will not use the new features unavailable in Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0? > > > > BTW, I can't find where can I get Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Reporting Services Report Builder 1.0 downloaded - could you please advise? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Jun 1 17:52:50 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:52:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <4BC82A8100AE4A27B110710B280C59DD@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4BC82A8100AE4A27B110710B280C59DD@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4A245BC2.26264.81587FE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Generally, although it can vary. IDAutomation's font lets you use different characters. see http://www.idautomation.com/code39faq.html for details -- Stuart On 1 Jun 2009 at 14:31, Rocky Smolin wrote: > That's the start and stop code? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > You need the guard characters for Code 39. > > Rocky = "*" & Rocky & "*" > > :-) > > > > On 1 Jun 2009 at 8:57, Hewson, Jim wrote: > > > In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. > > > > And since it's a font its really easy to use. > > > > Rocky = Rocky > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 1 18:05:32 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 16:05:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <4A245BC2.26264.81587FE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4BC82A8100AE4A27B110710B280C59DD@HAL9005> <4A245BC2.26264.81587FE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <04B3F88E807E4BD6BF67B7C8671DB7DD@HAL9005> That pretty much explains it Stuart. Thank you. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes Generally, although it can vary. IDAutomation's font lets you use different characters. see http://www.idautomation.com/code39faq.html for details -- Stuart On 1 Jun 2009 at 14:31, Rocky Smolin wrote: > That's the start and stop code? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > You need the guard characters for Code 39. > > Rocky = "*" & Rocky & "*" > > :-) > > > > On 1 Jun 2009 at 8:57, Hewson, Jim wrote: > > > In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. > > > > And since it's a font its really easy to use. > > > > Rocky = Rocky > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 1 22:46:45 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:46:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4A244DB8.8000901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <4A244DB8.8000901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A24A0A5.9070806@colbyconsulting.com> Oh, I forgot to mention I also run VMWare virtual machines. Some Windows 2003 and some Windows XP. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com jwcolby wrote: > If it is so easy to set up, what would you charge me to remote in to my system and help me set it > up? Would I be able to maintain a domain by myself? > > I am definitely not a notwork guy. I have a workgroup with NINE machines on it. I have Windows > Home Server (Windows 2003), a Vista (Ultimate) based Windows Media Center machine, another Vista > (Ultimate) machine on my development laptop, TWO Server 2003 X64 based SQL Servers (I am rebuilding > both of them last / this week), and about 4 Windows XP Pro machines including my wife's laptop, my > son's laptop, a game machine, and a Piano / BandInABox workstation. > > I currently use my hardware router / firewall as the dhcp server. > > The Windows Home Server is the only machine that is on and connected 24/7/365, though I could leave > one of the SQL Server machines on all the time as well I suppose. And while WHS runs Windows 2003, > I am not sure they particularly want it running as the domain controller. Not that I care what they > want. ;) > > To be honest I have not heard good things about trying to run a domain in a home office but I am > willing to listen. > > As for "recovering the data" I use Areca RAID Controllers running RAID 6 arrays, and the servers > WERE running on a partition on the RAID array. I doubt that bios calls will make it through > hardware raid controllers? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Drew Wutka wrote: >> NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If >> you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't >> automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is >> because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same >> as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the >> files/partitions will be 'foreign'. >> >> I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide >> security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't >> encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, >> which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a >> drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' >> of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't >> use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very >> handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files >> through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an >> NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to >> read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS >> security flags. >> >> So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if >> you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are >> using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a >> domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and >> groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter >> what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, >> and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your >> permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make >> home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS >> servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and >> provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is >> what! >> >> Just my two cents though.... >> >> Drew > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 1 23:50:11 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 21:50:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes In-Reply-To: <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005> <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD85@sanex101.nciinc.com> <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <580949A72F92474FB20E1280BE44E5BC@creativesystemdesigns.com> There are HP and Okidata printers that come with a number of bar codes groups built in. Some clients already have them as they may not be a speciality item or they can be upgraded by just popping in or out an inexpensive chip. Was at a client a while back and did a quick scan of the Okidata dot-matrix printer manual notice there was the capability to print bar codes that no one was even aware of. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes That's a good idea. I'll ask but I don't think she'll know. I'm not sure she wants to read - her requirement was for printing labels. So I'll have to find out who is going to read them and how. What's the most universal format - Code 39? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hewson, Jim Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes My first inclination is to ask the client what bar-code reader they will use. Start there. Different readers use and can read different codes. Get a list of codes the reader can decipher. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes Dear List: I have a client who wants to print bar coded labels. A bit of Googling reveals a lot of different bar code schemes. Is there a preferred bar code symbology? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com ############################################################################ #### If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ############################################################################ #### -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 2 00:01:36 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:01:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise known as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5DE2CC2A5FE1411EA12FCD03E1862E21@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think Drew is right on this... just a warning to make one computer a backup domain controller because if the Active Directory drive/computer ever fails you could lose the security for the entire network and that has all sorts of really ugly ramifications. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the files/partitions will be 'foreign'. I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS security flags. So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is what! Just my two cents though.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:07 PM To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, which I cannot detach because... it is read only. Sigh. So... this invites MANY questions... 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on that disk drive? 2) Why are the files read only? 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it non-readonly? 4)Why did all of this happen? 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for that. In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). Any words of wisdom out there? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com Tue Jun 2 07:56:03 2009 From: Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:56:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4a242764.1c07d00a.0d55.3e10@mx.google.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <4a241d58.1818d00a.56af.700b@mx.google.com> <4a242764.1c07d00a.0d55.3e10@mx.google.com> Message-ID: With Vista it seems that there is a 'Sharing' tab all the time. In folder options there is an option called 'Use Sharing Wizard (Recommended)', but just turns on/off the wizard for setting up Shares (not the same thing as setting security rights). Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") Thank you. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: 01 June 2009 19:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I will have to check on my Vista virtual machine when I get home. I know in Windows 7 the setting is pretty much the same as in XP. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") I will check that tomorrow at work on my XP. Any idea of how to do it in Vist. Folder Options doesn't have an Advanced Button or Tab. Just, General, View and Search and cannot see anything similar. Thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: 01 June 2009 14:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Cc: Stalklinga, Asa at UNAT Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") You probably have 'simplified file sharing' turned on (the default I think). In Windows XP open an explorer window and select 'Folder options' on the 'Tools' menu. Then select the 'View' tab and scroll down to the bottom of the list in the 'Advanced Settings' area. There you will find the 'Use simple file sharing (Recommended)' option. Clear the check box, and then reboot. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") No Security Tab on my PCs Lambert. I get General, Tools, Hardware, Sharing, Quota Max On 6/1/09, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > > Right-click the C drive and select properties, and then hit the > Security tab. > > Make sure that 'Administrators' is listed and that they have 'Full Control' > access. Add any other users you might want at this point too. > > Next click the 'Advanced' button and I the new dialog box click the 'Owner' > tab. Change the owner to the Administrators group and check the box to > 'Replace owner on subcontainters and objects'. > > Click the 'Permissions' tab of the same dialog box. Check the box to > 'Replace permission entries on all child objects..." > > Click OK and sit back and wait. > > Should sort things out for you. > > HTH > > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 11:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 > X64, New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on > the raid arrays which of course survive quite nicely. When I tried to > attach a database it gave me an "insufficient rights" kind of error > which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I took > ownership which worked (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach > and it said it couldn't because the files were read only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files > on that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it read / write and reattach it? Or how > do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be rebuilding when new parts get here mid > week. New motherboard / processor and 5 new terabyte drives for the > server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if there is something I can do in advance to > prevent this mess I am all for that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is to clone the boot drive and just use > that clone in the new system. I have gone to much trouble to get all > the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE to > end up with two literally identical machines, other than the second > machine having some additional storage (and a next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jun 2 08:20:42 2009 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:20:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have a table with the first two fields being named PIDName and Ptype. The third field is named PID. I would like the field PID to be automatically populated with the PID that corresponds with the PIDName entered by the user. The PID is stored in a different table (CompletionMaster). I have tried a lookup field but it returns all values in the CompletionMaster table. Is this possible? Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 2 09:56:39 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 07:56:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: This is the kind of thing you do with code in a form. Tables can't automatically populate a field based on another field in the same record. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table I have a table with the first two fields being named PIDName and Ptype. The third field is named PID. I would like the field PID to be automatically populated with the PID that corresponds with the PIDName entered by the user. The PID is stored in a different table (CompletionMaster). I have tried a lookup field but it returns all values in the CompletionMaster table. Is this possible? Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 2 10:06:30 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:06:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005>, <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD8F@sanex101.nciinc.com><4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4BC82A8100AE4A27B110710B280C59DD@HAL9005> Message-ID: ...use the ! rather than the * for greater compatibility ...the id info pages explain why one is better ...I've not paid attention for years, just know that the ! works in all cases I've used it in. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 5:31 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > That's the start and stop code? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > > You need the guard characters for Code 39. > > Rocky = "*" & Rocky & "*" > > :-) > > > > On 1 Jun 2009 at 8:57, Hewson, Jim wrote: > >> In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. >> >> And since it's a font its really easy to use. >> >> Rocky = Rocky >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 2 10:09:43 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:09:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bar Codes References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4BC82A8100AE4A27B110710B280C59DD@HAL9005> <4A245BC2.26264.81587FE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ...there you are ...Word chokes on the "*" so use "!" instead and it works everywhere ...knew there was a reason I had used the "!" :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 6:52 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes > Generally, although it can vary. > > IDAutomation's font lets you use different characters. see > http://www.idautomation.com/code39faq.html for details > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Jun 2009 at 14:31, Rocky Smolin wrote: > >> That's the start and stop code? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 2:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bar Codes >> >> You need the guard characters for Code 39. >> >> Rocky = "*" & Rocky & "*" >> >> :-) >> >> >> >> On 1 Jun 2009 at 8:57, Hewson, Jim wrote: >> >> > In my experience most bar-code readers can use Code 39. >> > >> > And since it's a font its really easy to use. >> > >> > Rocky = Rocky >> > >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 10:12:27 2009 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:12:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Lock File problem In-Reply-To: References: <6ef6ac2c0905270925i3269c65ft42632c9f733dba4f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6ef6ac2c0906020812y1eb841e1p1d77216164d67b2@mail.gmail.com> Thank you all for your suggestions! I'm going to try using the 'compact on close' option that Dan suggested. If I still hit lock file problems I will try the process explorer - I didn't realize that I could use that to track down a lock file. If the problem continues I'll apply at Burger King. Flipping burgers has GOT to be more fun than IT Admin stuff... Thanks again! Janet On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:19 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > Janet, > > I'd suggest automatically compacting the BE. The code below will open your > BE file, and then close it. If the BE file has Compact on Close checked, > it > will be compacted when it closed. > > 1) In your BE mdb file, check 'Compact on Close'. > 2) Create a new Access database called AutoCompactBE.mdb. Put it in an > appropriate place on your server. > 3) Create a standard module in that database. > 4) Paste in the code below. Enter in the path to your BE. > 5) From the code window, check the reference for 'Microsoft Scripting > Runtime'. > 6) Create an AutoExec macro that runs the CompactBE function. > 7) Create a Windows scheduled task to open the AutoCompactBE.mdb file at a > time each night when no one else is logged in. > 8) Test! > > Code for standard module: > > '---------------------------------------------- > Public Declare Sub Sleep Lib "kernel32" (ByVal dwMilliseconds As Long) > > Public Function CompactBE() > On Error GoTo EH > > Dim stgPathBEFile As String > Dim stgPathBELDB As String > Dim appAccess As Access.Application > Dim fso As FileSystemObject > Dim stg As String > Dim rst As DAO.Recordset > > ' Stop > > ' stg = "SELECT BEFullPath FROM tblBEFullPath" > ' Set rst = DBEngine(0)(0).OpenRecordset(stg, dbOpenSnapshot) > ' stgPathBEFile = rst("BEFullPath") > ' rst.Close > ' Set rst = Nothing > > stgPathBEFile = "C:\Folder\Folder\YourBackendFile.mdb" > > Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > > '-- If the BE file is in use then the BE can't be compacted > stgPathBELDB = Replace(stgPathBEFile, "mdb", "ldb") > If fso.FileExists(stgPathBELDB) Then > Access.Application.Quit acQuitSaveNone > Exit Function > End If > > Set appAccess = New Access.Application > > appAccess.OpenCurrentDatabase stgPathBEFile, False > > Sleep 5000 > > '-- When the BE closes it will auto-compact. > appAccess.CloseCurrentDatabase > > Sleep 5000 > > appAccess.Quit acQuitSaveNone > Set appAccess = Nothing > > DoEvents > > Access.Application.Quit acQuitSaveNone > > Exit Function > > EH: > Access.Application.Quit acQuitSaveNone > > End Function > '------------------------------------------------ > > Good Luck! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access Lock File problem > > Dear Forum Folks: > > We have an access order management application here that has a front-end > installed on 10 computers and a back-end that resides on the server. We > compact/backup the back-end mdb every day - usually with no problem. But > the compact/back-end, of course requires that only ONE computer can be > accessing the back-end mdb, and every once in awhile the person running the > compact forgets to close out the app on one of the computers. When that > happens it seems like the lock file gets 'locked' for good; even after > making sure EVERYONE is out of the app, access thinks the mdb is locked. > > The only solution I've found so far is to re-boot the server and then > delete > the lock file. This seems like an in-elegant and time-wasting solution to > me; is there some setting I'm missing in Access that's causing this issue? > Is there some other way I can release the ldb file without having to > re-boot? > > Thanks! > > Janet Erbach > IT Prognosticator > Natural Healthy Concepts > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jun 2 10:26:56 2009 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:26:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D0914A3@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Just what I was thinking but wanted an expert opinion. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:57 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup field in table This is the kind of thing you do with code in a form. Tables can't automatically populate a field based on another field in the same record. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table I have a table with the first two fields being named PIDName and Ptype. The third field is named PID. I would like the field PID to be automatically populated with the PID that corresponds with the PIDName entered by the user. The PID is stored in a different table (CompletionMaster). I have tried a lookup field but it returns all values in the CompletionMaster table. Is this possible? Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 10:33:18 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:33:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D0914A3@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D0914A3@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906020833s1fb8960ax5f2df8d5f77d6005@mail.gmail.com> One might also question the normalization. Given that you have the ID in the table, why do you need the lookup? Just asking, A. On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Kaup, Chester < Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com> wrote: > Just what I was thinking but wanted an expert opinion. Thanks > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 10:33:13 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:33:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <17c80a4d0906020833p498b121fl4f9315e6e8fad761@mail.gmail.com> With the table in Design View, click the Lookup tab in the bottom Properties pane. However, lookup fields are... troublesome. Mostly, you forget their true source and use them inappropriately later, which can cause trouble. I assume your users are using a data entry form anyway, so why not just do this in the underlying query? Susan H. On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I have a table with the first two fields being named PIDName and Ptype. The > third field is named PID. I would like the field PID to be automatically > populated with the PID that corresponds with the PIDName entered by the > user. The PID is stored in a different table (CompletionMaster). I have > tried a lookup field but it returns all values in the CompletionMaster > table. Is this possible? > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number > of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 10:46:45 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:46:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup field in table In-Reply-To: <17c80a4d0906020833p498b121fl4f9315e6e8fad761@mail.gmail.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C068D09145C@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <17c80a4d0906020833p498b121fl4f9315e6e8fad761@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906020846m3f0dae10t693bcece181d29b4@mail.gmail.com> My point exactly, SSH. On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > With the table in Design View, click the Lookup tab in the bottom > Properties > pane. However, lookup fields are... troublesome. Mostly, you forget their > true source and use them inappropriately later, which can cause trouble. > > I assume your users are using a data entry form anyway, so why not just do > this in the underlying query? > > Susan H. > > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 2 10:51:30 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:51:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4A244DB8.8000901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <4A244DB8.8000901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Ok, did a little research before replying. Apparently you can and can't run a domain controller with WHS. DCPROMO is there (which is what you use to create a domain controller), however, the EULA disallows it, and from what I am reading, after a week, the licensing kicks in and starts shutting things down. Not good. So to run a domain, you need a full blown Server OS. (Windows NT 4 (which won't have Active Directory), 2000 Server, 2003 Server or 2008). Next, as far as RAID controllers and BIOS calls...yes, you can read a drive that is on a RAID controller just like a regular drive, without going through the OS. A RAID controller 'mimics' a regular drive, so to the BIOS, a striped or mirrored drive looks just like a regular drive. Hardware level calls allow a program to read the actual sectors of a drive, so your program needs to 'understand' the NTFS structure for anything to make sense (or the FAT structure if it's a FAT partition). Finally, if what you heard about 'home domains' is due to WHS, that would explain things. A domain and Active Directory is really not very complex, or hard to setup. Now, it IS a very powerful tool, and to use it to it's fullest extent requires a lot of learning/training. However, it's basic functionality is very easy to setup and use, and can really help with a lot of things. I am going to post a little tutorial on how to do setup a basic Active Directory domain, and to tie it into this forum, at the end I am going to post some code that will show how you can incorporate Active Directory capabilities into your Access applications. As developers, if you are not familiar with Active Directory and domains, you are excluding clients that use such. (And a lot of my code actually works on a 'workgroup' machine too). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 4:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") If it is so easy to set up, what would you charge me to remote in to my system and help me set it up? Would I be able to maintain a domain by myself? I am definitely not a notwork guy. I have a workgroup with NINE machines on it. I have Windows Home Server (Windows 2003), a Vista (Ultimate) based Windows Media Center machine, another Vista (Ultimate) machine on my development laptop, TWO Server 2003 X64 based SQL Servers (I am rebuilding both of them last / this week), and about 4 Windows XP Pro machines including my wife's laptop, my son's laptop, a game machine, and a Piano / BandInABox workstation. I currently use my hardware router / firewall as the dhcp server. The Windows Home Server is the only machine that is on and connected 24/7/365, though I could leave one of the SQL Server machines on all the time as well I suppose. And while WHS runs Windows 2003, I am not sure they particularly want it running as the domain controller. Not that I care what they want. ;) To be honest I have not heard good things about trying to run a domain in a home office but I am willing to listen. As for "recovering the data" I use Areca RAID Controllers running RAID 6 arrays, and the servers WERE running on a partition on the RAID array. I doubt that bios calls will make it through hardware raid controllers? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If > you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't > automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is > because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same > as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the > files/partitions will be 'foreign'. > > I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide > security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't > encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, > which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a > drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' > of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't > use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very > handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files > through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an > NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to > read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS > security flags. > > So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if > you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are > using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a > domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and > groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter > what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, > and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your > permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make > home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS > servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and > provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is > what! > > Just my two cents though.... > > Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 2 12:16:41 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:16:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise known as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <5DE2CC2A5FE1411EA12FCD03E1862E21@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <5DE2CC2A5FE1411EA12FCD03E1862E21@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A255E79.30602@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, so now I have to leave THREE computers running 24/7/365. WHS, Domain controller, BACKUP Domain controller. This is getting less and less desirable. ATM there are 4 computers on 24/7, the WHS, my laptop, Mary's laptop and Robbie's laptop. The two SQL Server machines are relative power hogs simply because they have more powerful quad core processors as well as anywhere from 8 to 16 disk drives in them. I do not use them every day so I turn them off between uses. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think Drew is right on this... just a warning to make one computer a > backup domain controller because if the Active Directory drive/computer ever > fails you could lose the security for the entire network and that has all > sorts of really ugly ramifications. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If > you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't > automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is > because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same > as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the > files/partitions will be 'foreign'. > > I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide > security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't > encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, > which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a > drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' > of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't > use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very > handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files > through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an > NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to > read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS > security flags. > > So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if > you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are > using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a > domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and > groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter > what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, > and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your > permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make > home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS > servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and > provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is > what! > > Just my two cents though.... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, > New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the > raid arrays which of course > survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a database it gave me an > "insufficient rights" kind of > error which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I > took ownership which worked > (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it couldn't > because the files were read > only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach > because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on > that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it > read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be > rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New motherboard / > processor and 5 new terabyte drives > for the server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if > there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for > that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is > to clone the boot drive and just use that clone in the new system. I > have gone to much trouble to > get all the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE > to end up with two > literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some > additional storage (and a > next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Tue Jun 2 12:27:12 2009 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:27:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise known as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4A255E79.30602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <5DE2CC2A5FE1411EA12FCD03E1862E21@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A255E79.30602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4101F7B2995C426F8F14B4D23FFB9064@BPCS> Hi John, My solution, though I do not need my server up 24/7, is to have 2 plug in hard drives. Since my AD doesn't change very often, Once a month I shut down my server, plug in a second SATA drive, boot to Acronis and clone the server. Then I swap drives and re-boot. This assures that I do in fact have a good backup. I then set the old drive aside until next month. If you really need 24/7 then you probably do need a backup domain server. I do backup other key files daily to my NAS. By the way does WHS, backup the server? Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise known as "who owns things") LOL, so now I have to leave THREE computers running 24/7/365. WHS, Domain controller, BACKUP Domain controller. This is getting less and less desirable. ATM there are 4 computers on 24/7, the WHS, my laptop, Mary's laptop and Robbie's laptop. The two SQL Server machines are relative power hogs simply because they have more powerful quad core processors as well as anywhere from 8 to 16 disk drives in them. I do not use them every day so I turn them off between uses. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think Drew is right on this... just a warning to make one computer a > backup domain controller because if the Active Directory drive/computer > ever > fails you could lose the security for the entire network and that has all > sorts of really ugly ramifications. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If > you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't > automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is > because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same > as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the > files/partitions will be 'foreign'. > > I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide > security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't > encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, > which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a > drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' > of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't > use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very > handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files > through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an > NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to > read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS > security flags. > > So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if > you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are > using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a > domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and > groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter > what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, > and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your > permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make > home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS > servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and > provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is > what! > > Just my two cents though.... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, > New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the > raid arrays which of course > survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a database it gave me an > "insufficient rights" kind of > error which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I > took ownership which worked > (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it couldn't > because the files were read > only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach > because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on > that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it > read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be > rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New motherboard / > processor and 5 new terabyte drives > for the server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if > there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for > that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is > to clone the boot drive and just use that clone in the new system. I > have gone to much trouble to > get all the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE > to end up with two > literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some > additional storage (and a > next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 2 12:37:51 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:37:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise known as "who owns things") In-Reply-To: <4A255E79.30602@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2345E0.2000308@colbyconsulting.com> <5DE2CC2A5FE1411EA12FCD03E1862E21@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A255E79.30602@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: What do you get with WHS that you are actually using? What I would recommend, is that you turn WHS into a plain Windows 2003 machine, run Virtual Server (or the VMWare equivalent) and then do one of two things, turn the host machine into a DC and create a virtual DC, or create a virtual DC. A domain controller doesn't have to be a very hefty machine. It just needs a Server OS. My personal home network, I have one little old Dell, that runs a DC. I don't have a backup DC, because honestly, there's really no point. I only have 2 or 3 machines on the Domain, and if I lost my DC, I can just recreate it, and rejoin my old machines. If I were running more important things at home, I would create a backup DC, probably in a virtual environment. Will have the post on creating/running a domain up in a little bit, almost done with the screen shots. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise known as "who owns things") LOL, so now I have to leave THREE computers running 24/7/365. WHS, Domain controller, BACKUP Domain controller. This is getting less and less desirable. ATM there are 4 computers on 24/7, the WHS, my laptop, Mary's laptop and Robbie's laptop. The two SQL Server machines are relative power hogs simply because they have more powerful quad core processors as well as anywhere from 8 to 16 disk drives in them. I do not use them every day so I turn them off between uses. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > I think Drew is right on this... just a warning to make one computer a > backup domain controller because if the Active Directory drive/computer ever > fails you could lose the security for the entire network and that has all > sorts of really ugly ramifications. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > NTFS bases it's security on username/domain name, in a sort of hash. If > you rebuild a machine, but only one partition, other partitions aren't > automatically set to be used by the new machine's credentials. This is > because an account on a local machine is not going to be quite the same > as an account on the same machine with the OS reloaded. So all the > files/partitions will be 'foreign'. > > I know this is kind of annoying, but it is a failed attempt to provide > security for your files. NTFS can't really do that since it doesn't > encrypt anything by default. I have a program called Restore Pro 2000, > which lets me recover anything from NTFS partitions (so you can format a > drive, and I can recover the data....unless you do a low level 'zeroing' > of that drive). It completely ignores NTFS security, because it doesn't > use Windows to read the drive, it is using lower level BIOS calls. Very > handy. NTFS is only applicable if you are accessing folders/files > through windows itself. Even more bizarre is that Microsoft released an > NTFS driver for Windows 9x, which allows a windows 9x machine to > read/write to an NTFS partition...and it completely ignores the NTFS > security flags. > > So, to answer your question about how to prevent this from happening, if > you have a license (or 2) for Windows 2003 Server (or copies you are > using), then I would recommend setting up a domain. By setting up a > domain, with Active Directory, you are centralizing your users and > groups, so your login account will have the same permissions no matter > what machine you are using. (And if you wipe the C drive of a machine, > and reinstall the OS, as soon as you join it to the domain, all your > permissions are back!). Setting up a domain controller can also make > home networking WAY easier (and more efficient). The DHCP, WINS and DNS > servers available in a Windows Server are pretty easy to use, and > provide some pretty slick options as to setting up pointers to what is > what! > > Just my two cents though.... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 10:07 PM > To: Dba-Sqlserver; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What a mess (otherwise knbown as "who owns things") > > I rebuilt a server from C:\ format on up. New Windows Server 2003 X64, > New SQL Server 2005 etc. > > Now the current administrator (apparently) does not own the files on the > raid arrays which of course > survive quite nicely. When I tried to attach a database it gave me an > "insufficient rights" kind of > error which I Googled and that tells me that I do not own the files. I > took ownership which worked > (I can now attach), but then I tried to attach and it said it couldn't > because the files were read > only. > > Only it DID the attach, and now I have a database in read only mode, > which I cannot detach > because... it is read only. > > Sigh. > > So... this invites MANY questions... > > 1) How do I take ownership of a disk drive on down and all the files on > that disk drive? > 2) Why are the files read only? > 3) Now that I have one of the databases mounted (read only) how do I > detach it so that I can make it > read / write and reattach it? Or how do I make it non-readonly? > > 4)Why did all of this happen? > 5) Is there an easy way to prevent all this in the future? I have a > second server which I will be > rebuilding when new parts get here mid week. New motherboard / > processor and 5 new terabyte drives > for the server I rebuilt this weekend and 5 new drives for the one to be > rebuilt next. Obviously if > there is something I can do in advance to prevent this mess I am all for > that. > > In fact the new motherboard is the same motherboard as I have in the > current rebuild, and my plan is > to clone the boot drive and just use that clone in the new system. I > have gone to much trouble to > get all the multitude of software installed etc so when I am done I HOPE > to end up with two > literally identical machines, other than the second machine having some > additional storage (and a > next generation processor). > > Any words of wisdom out there? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Jun 2 15:30:22 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 00:30:22 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?Q3JlYXRpbmcgYSBmcmVlIFBERldyaXRlciB1c2luZyBH?= =?koi8-r?b?aG9zdHNjcmlwdCBhbmQgdXNpbmcgaXQgZG8gYXV0b21hdGUgTVMg?= =?koi8-r?b?QWNjZXNzIHJlcG9ydHMgcHJpbnRpbmcgdG8gUERGPw==?= Message-ID: Hi All, Did anybody use GhostScript (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS Access reports printing to PDF? If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? Thank you. -- Shamil From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 2 16:34:22 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:34:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it do automate MS Access reports printing to PDF? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A259ADE.2285.48E156B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Ghostcript is a bit of a PITA to use directly because of all the switches. That's why I wrote my GS frontend MakePDF which is used by a lot of my Access applications to automate printing (and emailing/FTPing) Acccess reports. See the Free Software page at http://www.lexacorp.com.pg -- Stuart On 3 Jun 2009 at 0:30, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > Hi All, > >> Did anybody use GhostScript (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS Access reports printing to PDF? > > If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcp2004 at mail.ru Tue Jun 2 19:34:59 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:34:59 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?Q3JlYXRpbmcgYSBmcmVlIFBERldyaXRlciB1c2luZyBH?= =?koi8-r?b?aG9zdHNjcmlwdCBhbmQgdXNpbmdpdCBkbyBhdXRvbWF0ZSBNUyBB?= =?koi8-r?b?Y2Nlc3MgcmVwb3J0cyBwcmludGluZyB0byBQREY/?= In-Reply-To: <4A259ADE.2285.48E156B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A259ADE.2285.48E156B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thank you, Stuart! -----Original Message----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:34:22 +1000 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it do automate MS Access reports printing to PDF? > Ghostcript is a bit of a PITA to use directly because of all the switches. > > That's why I wrote my GS frontend MakePDF which is used by a lot of my Access > applications to automate printing (and emailing/FTPing) Acccess reports. > > See the Free Software page at http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > > -- > Stuart > > > > On 3 Jun 2009 at 0:30, Salakhetdinov Shamil wrote: > > > Hi All, > > > >> Did anybody use GhostScript > (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS Access > reports printing to PDF? > > > > If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 2 19:36:18 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:36:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? Message-ID: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. Or at least that is how I know to do it. Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. Has anyone ever run into this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 2 19:49:56 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:49:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. Or at least that is how I know to do it. Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. Has anyone ever run into this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 2 20:03:56 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:03:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> <1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it has solved problems in the last 10 years. > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at my office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). > > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to > various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the > company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not doing > what they said they would do. Anyway... > > I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev > machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. > > My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at > least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office > install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a shortcut to the > actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. Or at least that is > how I know to do it. > > Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. Needless > to say, Decompile is rather important. > > I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that > exists at another office. > As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, > and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed somewhere > else, probably in that other office. > > Has anyone ever run into this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 2 20:31:23 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:31:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A25D26B.1353.5671456@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Never run into it, but it was an interesting problem, so I've knocked up a quick tool to help. 1. Download http://www,lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip 2. Extract the 18KB executable and place it on the desktop 3. Drag an MDB, DOC,PDF or whatever onto the executable. It will display a message box showing the \SHELL\OPEN\command in the Registry which will tell you exactly where to find Access.Exe or whatever is used to open the particular file type. Enjoy, Stuart On 2 Jun 2009 at 20:36, jwcolby wrote: > > I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. > As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use > office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. > > Has anyone ever run into this? From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 21:33:16 2009 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:33:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Did you check HELP and System Information inside of Access? GK On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 7:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: > One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to various Access FEs. ?I was > brought back in to this client because the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL > Server was not doing what they said they would do. ?Anyway... > > I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. ?It is my dev machine simply because they > do not have another machine to set me up on. > > My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at least I can use office on > this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office install. ?In order to get a /decompile going I need > to use a shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. ?Or at least that is > how I know to do it. > > Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. ?Needless to say, Decompile is > rather important. > > I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. > ?As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use > office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. > > Has anyone ever run into this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 2 23:00:17 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 21:00:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7A61E192965546809D8C4043531DF069@HAL9005> Oh, you misunderstood. I've used decompile a lot to unscramble hosed mdbs. I was wondering why you needed it in this particular case. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it has solved problems in the last 10 years. > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at my office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). > > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to > various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the > company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not > doing what they said they would do. Anyway... > > I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev > machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. > > My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or > at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual > office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a > shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. > Or at least that is how I know to do it. > > Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. > Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. > > I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain > that exists at another office. > As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call > it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed > somewhere else, probably in that other office. > > Has anyone ever run into this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed Jun 3 06:38:15 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:38:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc ...I always assumed everyone did that. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:03 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). > > Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am > amazed that you have > apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile shortcut in every > machine I do development, > kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the > times that it has solved > problems in the last 10 years. > > > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? > > The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at > my office, in which case > yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> >> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >> >> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to >> various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the >> company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not >> doing >> what they said they would do. Anyway... >> >> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev >> machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. >> >> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at >> least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office >> install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a shortcut to >> the >> actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. Or at least that >> is >> how I know to do it. >> >> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. >> Needless >> to say, Decompile is rather important. >> >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >> that >> exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call >> it, >> and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed somewhere >> else, probably in that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed Jun 3 06:41:13 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 07:41:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> <4A25D26B.1353.5671456@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <1534A2C7EA7B4F53ABB7D80E16531D28@jislaptopdev> Stu ...ie says it isn't there? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:31 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > Never run into it, but it was an interesting problem, so I've knocked up a > quick tool to help. > > 1. Download http://www,lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip > 2. Extract the 18KB executable and place it on the desktop > 3. Drag an MDB, DOC,PDF or whatever onto the executable. > > It will display a message box showing the \SHELL\OPEN\command in the > Registry which > will tell you exactly where to find Access.Exe or whatever is used to open > the particular file > type. > > Enjoy, > Stuart > > On 2 Jun 2009 at 20:36, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >> that exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call >> it, and thus it can use >> office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in >> that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 06:43:50 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:43:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A2661F6.5080303@colbyconsulting.com> No. I didn't know that would tell me where the EXE is located. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gary Kjos wrote: > Did you check HELP and System Information inside of Access? > > GK > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 7:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to various Access FEs. I was >> brought back in to this client because the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL >> Server was not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... >> >> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev machine simply because they >> do not have another machine to set me up on. >> >> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at least I can use office on >> this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need >> to use a shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. Or at least that is >> how I know to do it. >> >> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. Needless to say, Decompile is >> rather important. >> >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use >> office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 06:45:57 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:45:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <7A61E192965546809D8C4043531DF069@HAL9005> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> <7A61E192965546809D8C4043531DF069@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4A266275.9010803@colbyconsulting.com> Oh. I am working on a form which, when I drag another subform onto it, suddenly cannot be opened at all, not in design view, nothing. "Insufficient memory to complete operation" or some such. This even with my JIT Subforms in place. I figure it is time for a decompile but I can't get at the EXE to feed it the decompile switch. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > Oh, you misunderstood. I've used decompile a lot to unscramble hosed mdbs. > I was wondering why you needed it in this particular case. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). > > Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am > amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile > shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. > There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it has solved problems in > the last 10 years. > > > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? > > The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at my > office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> >> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >> >> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to >> various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the >> company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not >> doing what they said they would do. Anyway... >> >> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev >> machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. >> >> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or >> at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual >> office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a >> shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. >> Or at least that is how I know to do it. >> >> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. >> Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. >> >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >> that exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call >> it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed >> somewhere else, probably in that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 06:47:28 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 07:47:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A2662D0.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> > ...I always assumed everyone did that. Me too. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, > kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc > > ...I always assumed everyone did that. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:03 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > >>> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am >> amazed that you have >> apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile shortcut in every >> machine I do development, >> kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the >> times that it has solved >> problems in the last 10 years. >> >>> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at >> my office, in which case >> yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 3 06:47:22 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:47:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it do automate MS Access reports Message-ID: Hi Shamil You wouldn't waste your time this way (as described) when exactly this has been done before - FreePDF XP - and it is ready for download. Original site in German: http://freepdfxp.de/index.html We install this routinely on clients' machines. Notes: - FreePDF XP may appear as having a German interface only but that is not the case. - Ghostscript must be downloaded and installed before FreePDF XP but that is piece of cake. - XP doesn't mean much. It runs on Windows 2000+. >>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-06-2009 22:30 >>> Hi All, Did anybody use GhostScript (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS Access reports printing to PDF? If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? Thank you. -- Shamil From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jun 3 06:49:54 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 21:49:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <1534A2C7EA7B4F53ABB7D80E16531D28@jislaptopdev> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com>, <1534A2C7EA7B4F53ABB7D80E16531D28@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A266362.12141.79D5A18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's because I put a comma instead of a dot in the URL after www. Try http://www.lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip On 3 Jun 2009 at 7:41, William Hindman wrote: > Stu > > ...ie says it isn't there? > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Stuart McLachlan" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:31 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > > Never run into it, but it was an interesting problem, so I've knocked up a > > quick tool to help. > > > > 1. Download http://www,lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip > > 2. Extract the 18KB executable and place it on the desktop > > 3. Drag an MDB, DOC,PDF or whatever onto the executable. > > > > It will display a message box showing the \SHELL\OPEN\command in the > > Registry which > > will tell you exactly where to find Access.Exe or whatever is used to open > > the particular file > > type. > > > > Enjoy, > > Stuart > > > > On 2 Jun 2009 at 20:36, jwcolby wrote: > > > >> > >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain > >> that exists at another office. > >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call > >> it, and thus it can use > >> office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in > >> that other office. > >> > >> Has anyone ever run into this? > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 3 08:14:45 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:14:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005><4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <42C2D8DA96A147688637F3E3F58328CC@HAL9005> I've always just found mine in the 'Start-->Run' list. But I don't find that I need it often enough to shortcut it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc ...I always assumed everyone did that. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:03 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). > > Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I > am amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a > decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a > standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it > has solved problems in the last 10 years. > > > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? > > The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine > at my office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> >> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >> >> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE >> to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because >> the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was >> not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... >> >> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my >> dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. >> >> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or >> at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual >> office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a >> shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. >> Or at least that is how I know to do it. >> >> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. >> Needless >> to say, Decompile is rather important. >> >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >> that exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you >> call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually >> installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 3 08:17:33 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 06:17:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A266275.9010803@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com><7A61E192965546809D8C4043531DF069@HAL9005> <4A266275.9010803@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6B0E47118DB44F989C4D6A1C884387C8@HAL9005> If you can see the drive where it might be wouldn't something as simple as 'Start-->Search-->For Files or Folders' work? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? Oh. I am working on a form which, when I drag another subform onto it, suddenly cannot be opened at all, not in design view, nothing. "Insufficient memory to complete operation" or some such. This even with my JIT Subforms in place. I figure it is time for a decompile but I can't get at the EXE to feed it the decompile switch. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > Oh, you misunderstood. I've used decompile a lot to unscramble hosed mdbs. > I was wondering why you needed it in this particular case. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). > > Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I > am amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a > decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. > There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it has solved > problems in the last 10 years. > > > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? > > The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine > at my office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> >> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >> >> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE >> to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because >> the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was >> not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... >> >> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my >> dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. >> >> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or >> at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual >> office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a >> shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. >> Or at least that is how I know to do it. >> >> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. >> Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. >> >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >> that exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you >> call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually >> installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed Jun 3 08:29:09 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:29:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and usingit do automate MS Access reports References: Message-ID: <890A866D47A845EAA6F7297CEF791C04@jislaptopdev> ??? ...I use lebans access to pdf functions in his sample mdb ...no print driver required ...feb 2009 upgrade ...when you marry this with his report to Word/RTF/Metafile code, you have a pretty complete Access report export/conversion library. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustav Brock" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:47 AM To: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript andusingitdo automate MS Access reports > Hi Shamil > > You wouldn't waste your time this way (as described) when exactly this has > been done before - FreePDF XP - and it is ready for download. > > Original site in German: > http://freepdfxp.de/index.html > > We install this routinely on clients' machines. > > Notes: > > - FreePDF XP may appear as having a German interface only but that is not > the case. > - Ghostscript must be downloaded and installed before FreePDF XP but that > is piece of cake. > - XP doesn't mean much. It runs on Windows 2000+. > > >>>> mcp2004 at mail.ru 02-06-2009 22:30 >>> > Hi All, > > Did anybody use GhostScript > (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS > Access reports printing to PDF? > > If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed Jun 3 08:31:30 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:31:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005><4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com><2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> <42C2D8DA96A147688637F3E3F58328CC@HAL9005> Message-ID: ...hhhhmmm ...I use it pretty regularly ...an apple a day type thing ...and having it as a shortcut just makes it that more usable. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:14 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > I've always just found mine in the 'Start-->Run' list. But I don't find > that I need it often enough to shortcut it. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, > kind > of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc > > ...I always assumed everyone did that. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:03 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > >> > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> >> Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I >> am amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a >> decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a >> standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it >> has solved problems in the last 10 years. >> >> > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> >> The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine >> at my office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >>> >>> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >>> >>> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE >>> to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because >>> the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was >>> not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... >>> >>> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my >>> dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up > on. >>> >>> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or >>> at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual >>> office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a >>> shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. >>> Or at least that is how I know to do it. >>> >>> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. >>> Needless >>> to say, Decompile is rather important. >>> >>> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >>> that exists at another office. >>> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you >>> call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually >>> installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >>> >>> Has anyone ever run into this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Jun 3 08:32:24 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:32:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9CFB21A526B5495FB027ADEE66C16880@danwaters> Maybe this would tell you where it is: Private Sub AccessLocation() Dim stgLocation As String stgLocation = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessDir) End Sub HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 7:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up on. My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. Or at least that is how I know to do it. Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. Has anyone ever run into this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jun 3 09:10:25 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:10:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A2662D0.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> <4A2662D0.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <276191C97F0B4588A1EBB25BB7B731FC@XPS> I guess I'm in the minority; I can't remember the last time I used /decompile. Been 4 or 5 years at least. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > ...I always assumed everyone did that. Me too. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, > kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc > > ...I always assumed everyone did that. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:03 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > >>> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am >> amazed that you have >> apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile shortcut in every >> machine I do development, >> kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the >> times that it has solved >> problems in the last 10 years. >> >>> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at >> my office, in which case >> yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jun 3 09:07:27 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:07:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it do automate MS Access reports printing to PDF? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil, Yes, I have one client that has used Ghost Script for a number of years and it works fine. I've never had any issues with it that I'm aware of in terms of formatting, etc. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov Shamil Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 4:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it do automate MS Access reports printing to PDF? Hi All, Did anybody use GhostScript (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS Access reports printing to PDF? If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? Thank you. -- Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JHewson at nciinc.com Wed Jun 3 09:35:16 2009 From: JHewson at nciinc.com (Hewson, Jim ) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:35:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <276191C97F0B4588A1EBB25BB7B731FC@XPS> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005><4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com><2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev><4A2662D0.1060203@colbyconsulting.com> <276191C97F0B4588A1EBB25BB7B731FC@XPS> Message-ID: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDDC9@sanex101.nciinc.com> I'm with you Jim. Although I have a shortcut on my desktop for decompiling, it's not something I use very often. I can't remember the last time I used it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:10 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? I guess I'm in the minority; I can't remember the last time I used /decompile. Been 4 or 5 years at least. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > ...I always assumed everyone did that. Me too. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, > kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc > > ...I always assumed everyone did that. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:03 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > >>> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I am >> amazed that you have >> apparently never used it? I just set up a decompile shortcut in every >> machine I do development, >> kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. I cannot count the >> times that it has solved >> problems in the last 10 years. >> >>> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine at >> my office, in which case >> yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ################################################################################ If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ################################################################################ From Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com Wed Jun 3 09:43:58 2009 From: Lambert.Heenan at aiuholdings.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:43:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A266362.12141.79D5A18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com>, <1534A2C7EA7B4F53ABB7D80E16531D28@jislaptopdev> <4A266362.12141.79D5A18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The tool does not seem to work. I drop a MDB (or XLS, or DOC, or TXT) file on it and a dialog appears with a title bar, and OK button and nothing else: running Win XP SP2. Debug.Print SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessDir) works fine though. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? That's because I put a comma instead of a dot in the URL after www. Try http://www.lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip On 3 Jun 2009 at 7:41, William Hindman wrote: > Stu > > ...ie says it isn't there? > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Stuart McLachlan" > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:31 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > > Never run into it, but it was an interesting problem, so I've > > knocked up a quick tool to help. > > > > 1. Download http://www,lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip > > 2. Extract the 18KB executable and place it on the desktop 3. Drag > > an MDB, DOC,PDF or whatever onto the executable. > > > > It will display a message box showing the \SHELL\OPEN\command in the > > Registry which will tell you exactly where to find Access.Exe or > > whatever is used to open the particular file type. > > > > Enjoy, > > Stuart > > > > On 2 Jun 2009 at 20:36, jwcolby wrote: > > > >> > >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a > >> domain that exists at another office. > >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you > >> call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually > >> installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. > >> > >> Has anyone ever run into this? > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 09:44:08 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:44:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? Message-ID: <7c7841600906030744n11419de4qd706c537b0931a9a@mail.gmail.com> Try this: SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessDir) Returns the name of the directory where Msaccess.exe is located. > Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. > Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. > > -Ken From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 09:48:03 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:48:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A25D26B.1353.5671456@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> <4A25D26B.1353.5671456@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A268D23.6080603@colbyconsulting.com> > 1. Download http://www,lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip Stuart, I can't get at that file. "Address not found" John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Never run into it, but it was an interesting problem, so I've knocked up a quick tool to help. > > 1. Download http://www,lexacorp.com.pg/soft/FindOpener.zip > 2. Extract the 18KB executable and place it on the desktop > 3. Drag an MDB, DOC,PDF or whatever onto the executable. > > It will display a message box showing the \SHELL\OPEN\command in the Registry which > will tell you exactly where to find Access.Exe or whatever is used to open the particular file > type. > > Enjoy, > Stuart > > On 2 Jun 2009 at 20:36, jwcolby wrote: > >> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. >> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use >> office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >> >> Has anyone ever run into this? > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 10:00:14 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:00:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <6B0E47118DB44F989C4D6A1C884387C8@HAL9005> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com><7A61E192965546809D8C4043531DF069@HAL9005> <4A266275.9010803@colbyconsulting.com> <6B0E47118DB44F989C4D6A1C884387C8@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4A268FFE.4060104@colbyconsulting.com> Been there, done that, not on the c: drive. Not in program files, no directory at all for office there. I have never run into that before. I think this is probably a "domain" thing, but as I am domained ignorant... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > If you can see the drive where it might be wouldn't something as simple as > 'Start-->Search-->For Files or Folders' work? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? > > Oh. I am working on a form which, when I drag another subform onto it, > suddenly cannot be opened at all, not in design view, nothing. > "Insufficient memory to complete operation" or some such. This even with my > JIT Subforms in place. I figure it is time for a decompile but I can't get > at the EXE to feed it the decompile switch. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Oh, you misunderstood. I've used decompile a lot to unscramble hosed > mdbs. >> I was wondering why you needed it in this particular case. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:04 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >> >> > Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >> >> Decompile is a tool that, when you need it there is no substitute. I >> am amazed that you have apparently never used it? I just set up a >> decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a > standard thing. >> There if I need it. I cannot count the times that it has solved >> problems in the last 10 years. >> >> > Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >> >> The server at their office is "my machine" unless you mean my machine >> at my office, in which case yes I could but it is clumsy, and slow. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Why do you need to do decompile (just curious). >>> >>> Can you copy the FE to your machine, decompile, and replace? >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 5:36 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? >>> >>> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE >>> to various Access FEs. I was brought back in to this client because >>> the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL Server was >>> not doing what they said they would do. Anyway... >>> >>> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. It is my >>> dev machine simply because they do not have another machine to set me up > on. >>> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or >>> at least I can use office on this thing but I cannot FIND the actual >>> office install. In order to get a /decompile going I need to use a >>> shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. >>> Or at least that is how I know to do it. >>> >>> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. >>> Needless to say, Decompile is rather important. >>> >>> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain >>> that exists at another office. >>> As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you >>> call it, and thus it can use office even though it is actually >>> installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >>> >>> Has anyone ever run into this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 10:05:12 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:05:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <9CFB21A526B5495FB027ADEE66C16880@danwaters> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> <9CFB21A526B5495FB027ADEE66C16880@danwaters> Message-ID: <4A269128.6050607@colbyconsulting.com> That did it DAN! The MAN! They had installed it ion a Program Files on the E: drive. So I have my decompile shortcut. Thanks for all the replies. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Maybe this would tell you where it is: > > Private Sub AccessLocation() > > Dim stgLocation As String > > stgLocation = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessDir) > > End Sub > > HTH! > Dan From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Jun 3 10:12:00 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:12:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A269128.6050607@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><9CFB21A526B5495FB027ADEE66C16880@danwaters> <4A269128.6050607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4168F69CF40D4E9883B9CE90A2918286@danwaters> Great! Every time I update a customer's system, I first decompile, compile, and compact every access file. No corruptions on their side - I guess it's working! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 10:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? That did it DAN! The MAN! They had installed it ion a Program Files on the E: drive. So I have my decompile shortcut. Thanks for all the replies. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Maybe this would tell you where it is: > > Private Sub AccessLocation() > > Dim stgLocation As String > > stgLocation = SysCmd(acSysCmdAccessDir) > > End Sub > > HTH! > Dan -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 11:05:44 2009 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:05:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <4A2661F6.5080303@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2661F6.5080303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: In Access 2003 Click Help/About Microsoft Access/System Info/Software Environment/Running Tasks Find MSaccess.exe and it says where it is running from on my system anyway. GK On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:43 AM, jwcolby wrote: > No. ?I didn't know that would tell me where the EXE is located. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Gary Kjos wrote: >> Did you check HELP and System Information inside of Access? >> >> GK >> >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 7:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>> One client has a server running Windows 2003 and SQL Server as a BE to various Access FEs. ?I was >>> brought back in to this client because the company that did the conversion from Access BE to SQL >>> Server was not doing what they said they would do. ?Anyway... >>> >>> I use VPN and remote desktop to remote in to the server. ?It is my dev machine simply because they >>> do not have another machine to set me up on. >>> >>> My problem is that they installed Office on this thing (I guess), or at least I can use office on >>> this thing but I cannot FIND the actual office install. ?In order to get a /decompile going I need >>> to use a shortcut to the actual Access EXE and then use the /Decompile switch. ?Or at least that is >>> how I know to do it. >>> >>> Since I cannot find the exe on the machine I am unable to do this. ?Needless to say, Decompile is >>> rather important. >>> >>> I think what is going on is that the office was made part of a domain that exists at another office. >>> ?As such I am guessing that my user is "virtual" or whatever you call it, and thus it can use >>> office even though it is actually installed somewhere else, probably in that other office. >>> >>> Has anyone ever run into this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From Donald.A.McGillivray at sprint.com Wed Jun 3 11:07:22 2009 From: Donald.A.McGillivray at sprint.com (McGillivray, Don [IT]) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:07:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? In-Reply-To: <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> References: <4A25C582.9090806@colbyconsulting.com><1ABFDB24B850400FAA4823EA303ACABA@HAL9005> <4A25CBFC.8080006@colbyconsulting.com> <2654F0BB996446C8A9513EFB1AE7A9A3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <59F4C79E0A20B74990A3775EF2388A89423333EC21@PDAWM03C.ad.sprint.com> I place my decompile shortcut in the "SendTo" folder. Then I can right-click an mdb, and use "Send to" to launch Access with the decompile switch. No need to drag and hunt and drop. You can also set up shortcuts that invoke differrent mdw files for user level security. That way, if you have different workgroup files for different dbs, you can just send the mdb to the appropriate shortcut. No need to mess with the default workgroup or create separate shortcuts for each mdb to launch it with its mdw. Cool way to implement things of this kind. Don -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office on a server - where did it go? "I just set up a decompile shortcut in every machine I do development, kind of as a standard thing. There if I need it. " jc ...I always assumed everyone did that. William This e-mail may contain Sprint Nextel Company proprietary information intended for the sole use of the recipient(s). Any use by others is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of the message. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 3 11:25:33 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:25:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Message-ID: Many people think that a domain is something you only use in a company network environment. While domains are more common there, domains certainly have enough usefulness to be used at home too. Here are some situations where having a domain at home can be useful: You have more then two computers on your home domain. You have children accessing your home network. You develop for businesses that have domains. If you have more then two computers on your home domain, a domain controller can make your home network much easier to manage. Have kids that use your computers? Let's face it, computer security usually only keeps honest people honest. Give me a home computer you think you have 'secured', and I can show you how to break into it with full admin rights. Local access to a machine can open a lot of security holes. That is one of the big advantages of a domain. In a domain, your security is centralized, and as long as you don't give anyone direct access to the domain controller, security settings are all but impossible to get around. If you developer for a business, that uses a domain, there are a lot of features of Active Directory that you can use in your systems to make your systems more powerful/intuitive. So, let's build a domain: First, we'll start with a box running Windows 2003 server. Have this machine plugged into a switch, with nothing else. (we don't want any IP addresses to be given out, so if your 'switch' is a router with DHCP, turn that off). This should be a clean install of 2003, nothing extra added. I have posted screen shots: http://www.marlow.com/downloads/DCPromo1.jpg through http://www.marlow.com/downloads/DCPromo18.jpg (for space considerations I am just going to go through them with numbers, not full links: 1: Welcome Screen, click next 2: compatibility info, click next 3: Type of DC. First (default) option (DC in new domain). Click next. 4: Type of Domain. First (default) option, domain in a new forest, Click next. 5:Name your domain. I named my test domain AccessD.net (click next) 6:NetBios name, it'll assign it automatically, click next. 7 & 8:Default folder locations, assigned automatically, click next. 9:DNS, select second option (install and configure DNS), click next 10: permissions, select second (default) option, click next 11: Restore mode password, enter password twice, click next. 12: Summary: click next 13: During the setup/installation of AD, it will get to the part about installing DNS, and should prompt you for your 2003 CD, put it in. Since your network connection is connected, but not getting an address, it will prompt you to change the 'dynamic address' to a static one, click the ok, and you'll get your LAN settings window. Select TCP/IP and click Properties 14: Setup your IP address info like this. Your DC IP will be 192.168.0.2, and your Gateway (router) will be 192.168.0.1 15: Go into your addition settings and put your domain in as the DNS Suffix, click Ok. 16: We're done (so far), click Finish. 17: Click Restart Now 18: When you click ctrl-alt-del, click options, and now you have a Logon to: option with your new domain. Select the domain, and log in as Administrator (your administrator password will be the same as the one you setup before setting up active directory (NOT the recovery password you put in, unless they happen to be the same password). Next up.... setting up DHCP and WINS. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From mcp2004 at mail.ru Wed Jun 3 11:52:28 2009 From: mcp2004 at mail.ru (Salakhetdinov Shamil) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:52:28 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?koi8-r?b?Q3JlYXRpbmcgYSBmcmVlIFBERldyaXRlciB1c2luZyBH?= =?koi8-r?b?aG9zdHNjcmlwdCBhbmQgdXNpbmdpdCBkbyBhdXRvbWF0ZSBNUyBB?= =?koi8-r?b?Y2Nlc3MgcmVwb3J0cyBwcmludGluZyB0byBQREY/?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you everybody who responded on my posting, Jim, Gustav, William, Stuart... I have so many options now to choose from: I will report, which one I will use although it depends will my client go with the whole project or not... BTW, this project is an Automation of MS Access reports printing to .pdf by using a Windows Service if that possible at all IOW a kind of "bullet-proof" multi-threaded MS Access reports generations server for a given set of contacts - is such a task/solution interesting for AccessD audience or your customers? Do you know of any ready-to-use solutions like that? -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: "Jim Dettman" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 10:07:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it do automate MS Access reports printing to PDF? > Shamil, > > Yes, I have one client that has used Ghost Script for a number of years > and it works fine. I've never had any issues with it that I'm aware of in > terms of formatting, etc. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Salakhetdinov > Shamil > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 4:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Creating a free PDFWriter using Ghostscript and using it > do automate MS Access reports printing to PDF? > > Hi All, > > Did anybody use GhostScript > (http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~henrik/GSWriter/GSWriter.html) to automated MS > Access reports printing to PDF? > > If Yes - how did it work - smoothly or not? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 12:54:48 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:54:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. Thanks Drew! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Many people think that a domain is something you only use in a company > network environment. While domains are more common there, domains > certainly have enough usefulness to be used at home too. > > Here are some situations where having a domain at home can be useful: > > You have more then two computers on your home domain. > You have children accessing your home network. > You develop for businesses that have domains. > > > If you have more then two computers on your home domain, a domain > controller can make your home network much easier to manage. > > Have kids that use your computers? Let's face it, computer security > usually only keeps honest people honest. Give me a home computer you > think you have 'secured', and I can show you how to break into it with > full admin rights. Local access to a machine can open a lot of security > holes. That is one of the big advantages of a domain. In a domain, > your security is centralized, and as long as you don't give anyone > direct access to the domain controller, security settings are all but > impossible to get around. > > If you developer for a business, that uses a domain, there are a lot of > features of Active Directory that you can use in your systems to make > your systems more powerful/intuitive. > > So, let's build a domain: > > First, we'll start with a box running Windows 2003 server. Have this > machine plugged into a switch, with nothing else. (we don't want any IP > addresses to be given out, so if your 'switch' is a router with DHCP, > turn that off). This should be a clean install of 2003, nothing extra > added. > > I have posted screen shots: > http://www.marlow.com/downloads/DCPromo1.jpg through > http://www.marlow.com/downloads/DCPromo18.jpg (for space considerations > I am just going to go through them with numbers, not full links: > > 1: Welcome Screen, click next > 2: compatibility info, click next > 3: Type of DC. First (default) option (DC in new domain). Click next. > 4: Type of Domain. First (default) option, domain in a new forest, Click > next. > 5:Name your domain. I named my test domain AccessD.net (click next) > 6:NetBios name, it'll assign it automatically, click next. > 7 & 8:Default folder locations, assigned automatically, click next. > 9:DNS, select second option (install and configure DNS), click next > 10: permissions, select second (default) option, click next > 11: Restore mode password, enter password twice, click next. > 12: Summary: click next > 13: During the setup/installation of AD, it will get to the part about > installing DNS, and should prompt you for your 2003 CD, put it in. > Since your network connection is connected, but not getting an address, > it will prompt you to change the 'dynamic address' to a static one, > click the ok, and you'll get your LAN settings window. Select TCP/IP > and click Properties > 14: Setup your IP address info like this. Your DC IP will be > 192.168.0.2, and your Gateway (router) will be 192.168.0.1 > 15: Go into your addition settings and put your domain in as the DNS > Suffix, click Ok. > 16: We're done (so far), click Finish. > 17: Click Restart Now > 18: When you click ctrl-alt-del, click options, and now you have a Logon > to: option with your new domain. Select the domain, and log in as > Administrator (your administrator password will be the same as the one > you setup before setting up active directory (NOT the recovery password > you put in, unless they happen to be the same password). > > Next up.... setting up DHCP and WINS. > > Drew > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 13:18:32 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 11:18:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com> yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do it in one place, rather than on each of the computers. D On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby wrote: > WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. > > Thanks Drew! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Drew Wutka wrote: > > Many people think that a domain is something you only use in a company > > network environment. While domains are more common there, domains > > certainly have enough usefulness to be used at home too. > > > > Here are some situations where having a domain at home can be useful: > > > > You have more then two computers on your home domain. > > You have children accessing your home network. > > You develop for businesses that have domains. > > > > > > If you have more then two computers on your home domain, a domain > > controller can make your home network much easier to manage. > > > > Have kids that use your computers? Let's face it, computer security > > usually only keeps honest people honest. Give me a home computer you > > think you have 'secured', and I can show you how to break into it with > > full admin rights. Local access to a machine can open a lot of security > > holes. That is one of the big advantages of a domain. In a domain, > > your security is centralized, and as long as you don't give anyone > > direct access to the domain controller, security settings are all but > > impossible to get around. > > > > If you developer for a business, that uses a domain, there are a lot of > > features of Active Directory that you can use in your systems to make > > your systems more powerful/intuitive. > > > > So, let's build a domain: > > > > First, we'll start with a box running Windows 2003 server. Have this > > machine plugged into a switch, with nothing else. (we don't want any IP > > addresses to be given out, so if your 'switch' is a router with DHCP, > > turn that off). This should be a clean install of 2003, nothing extra > > added. > > > > I have posted screen shots: > > http://www.marlow.com/downloads/DCPromo1.jpg through > > http://www.marlow.com/downloads/DCPromo18.jpg (for space considerations > > I am just going to go through them with numbers, not full links: > > > > 1: Welcome Screen, click next > > 2: compatibility info, click next > > 3: Type of DC. First (default) option (DC in new domain). Click next. > > 4: Type of Domain. First (default) option, domain in a new forest, Click > > next. > > 5:Name your domain. I named my test domain AccessD.net (click next) > > 6:NetBios name, it'll assign it automatically, click next. > > 7 & 8:Default folder locations, assigned automatically, click next. > > 9:DNS, select second option (install and configure DNS), click next > > 10: permissions, select second (default) option, click next > > 11: Restore mode password, enter password twice, click next. > > 12: Summary: click next > > 13: During the setup/installation of AD, it will get to the part about > > installing DNS, and should prompt you for your 2003 CD, put it in. > > Since your network connection is connected, but not getting an address, > > it will prompt you to change the 'dynamic address' to a static one, > > click the ok, and you'll get your LAN settings window. Select TCP/IP > > and click Properties > > 14: Setup your IP address info like this. Your DC IP will be > > 192.168.0.2, and your Gateway (router) will be 192.168.0.1 > > 15: Go into your addition settings and put your domain in as the DNS > > Suffix, click Ok. > > 16: We're done (so far), click Finish. > > 17: Click Restart Now > > 18: When you click ctrl-alt-del, click options, and now you have a Logon > > to: option with your new domain. Select the domain, and log in as > > Administrator (your administrator password will be the same as the one > > you setup before setting up active directory (NOT the recovery password > > you put in, unless they happen to be the same password). > > > > Next up.... setting up DHCP and WINS. > > > > Drew > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information by persons > > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 15:55:53 2009 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:55:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com> <8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> Dave, >> When my son loses computer privelages << O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You beast!! Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee wrote: > yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. > > When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do it in > one place, rather than on each of the computers. > > D > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> WOW. ?I will definitely be looking at this. >> >> Thanks Drew! >> >> John W. Colby From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 15:58:08 2009 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:58:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39cb22f30906031358t3c21e854rc528881923e50529@mail.gmail.com> Drew, I appreciate this information very much. Here's a hypothetical question for you: I have Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition installed as a Virtual PC. Can the same domain business be done in this situation? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Many people think that a domain is something you only use in a company > network environment. ?While domains are more common there, domains > certainly have enough usefulness to be used at home too. > > Here are some situations where having a domain at home can be useful: > > You have more then two computers on your home domain. > You have children accessing your home network. > You develop for businesses that have domains. > > > If you have more then two computers on your home domain, a domain > controller can make your home network much easier to manage. > > Have kids that use your computers? Let's face it, computer security > usually only keeps honest people honest. ?Give me a home computer you > think you have 'secured', and I can show you how to break into it with > full admin rights. ?Local access to a machine can open a lot of security > holes. ?That is one of the big advantages of a domain. ?In a domain, > your security is centralized, and as long as you don't give anyone > direct access to the domain controller, security settings are all but > impossible to get around. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 16:10:46 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:10:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com> <8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com> <39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't allowed to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. :) On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > Dave, > > >> When my son loses computer privileges << > > O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You beast!! > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. > > > > When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do it in > > one place, rather than on each of the computers. > > > > D > > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby >wrote: > > > >> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. > >> > >> Thanks Drew! > >> > >> John W. Colby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JHewson at nciinc.com Wed Jun 3 16:17:46 2009 From: JHewson at nciinc.com (Hewson, Jim ) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:17:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com><8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com><39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDDF2@sanex101.nciinc.com> I've got to ask... why? What did he do that was so heinous that he couldn't brush his teeth? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't allowed to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. :) On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > Dave, > > >> When my son loses computer privileges << > > O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You beast!! > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. > > > > When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do it in > > one place, rather than on each of the computers. > > > > D > > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby >wrote: > > > >> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. > >> > >> Thanks Drew! > >> > >> John W. Colby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ################################################################################ If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender immediately and be aware that the use, copying, or dissemination of this information is prohibited. This email transmission contains information from NCI Information Systems, Inc. that may be considered privileged or confidential and is intended solely for the named recipient. ################################################################################ From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 3 16:22:30 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:22:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <39cb22f30906031358t3c21e854rc528881923e50529@mail.gmail.com> References: <39cb22f30906031358t3c21e854rc528881923e50529@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Absolutely.... In fact, the demo I am putting together here is running in Virtual PC. I've set the network connection to be 'local' only, so it's just like have a server on a brand new 'blank' network. Now, to setup a primary DC using Virtual PC, I would really recommend using Virtual Server, not Virtual PC, because Virtual server will allow you to have your virtual machines to startup with the host computer. When you setup a domain, you need your domain controller to be on whenever the network is in use, otherwise authentication fails, and things will go bonkers! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Drew, I appreciate this information very much. Here's a hypothetical question for you: I have Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition installed as a Virtual PC. Can the same domain business be done in this situation? Steve Erbach Neenah, WI The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 17:01:38 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:01:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDDF2@sanex101.nciinc.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com> <8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com> <39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDDF2@sanex101.nciinc.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906031501y4bedd837p40e08d998be8292f@mail.gmail.com> We always laugh about it now, but for the life of me, I can't remember what he did. I think he had his Xbox & TV taken away because he was playing them at night instead of sleeping (and thus waking up in time for school) He was then caught mucking with hand held heletronic devices (Game boy...) at night which were taken away, then a laser pointer... That might have been the straw that broke the camels back. He still had to brush his teeth. He just had to use the manual toothbrush. Oh the horror! I'm surprised he didn't call Child Services on us. :) On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Hewson, Jim wrote: > I've got to ask... why? > What did he do that was so heinous that he couldn't brush his teeth? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. > > lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't > allowed > to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. > > > :) > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > > > Dave, > > > > >> When my son loses computer privileges << > > > > O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You > beast!! > > > > Steve Erbach > > Neenah, WI > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 3 17:19:32 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:19:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 2. Network Services Message-ID: Ok, we now have a domain controller setup, now it's time to get our network ready. This is where a home network is fair less efficient then a domain with the proper network services. In a standard 'home' network, you have a DHCP server (which hands out IP addresses), which is usually a DSL/Cable Modem/router, and that's it. So communication between computers on a home network is reliant on Computer Browsing, which is a Window's service which broadcasts out to find other computers on the network. It's horribly inefficient, and very often unreliable. The reason that this is, is because there is no one local resource always available to act as a traffic cop.... But with our new domain controller, that's what we have. We are going to setup DNS, DHCP, and WINS. DNS - Domain Name Service (this was actually already setup during our DCPROMO process). A DNS server resolves domain names (and computers on a domain) with an IP Address. So, when you go to www.msn.com, a DNS server on the internet has the address of msn.com, and it looks up the www part, and returns an IP address (in this case: 207.68.173.76). There are internet DNS servers all over, when you are connected to the internet, your ISP is providing DNS services too you, which allows you to look up computers on the internet, but their DNS servers are not registering your local machines. So we are going to host our own DNS server, so that it registers the local machines, and forwards internet based DNS requests onto your ISP's DNS servers. DHCP - Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol. Internet communication uses TCP/IP (Transfer Control Protocol/Internet Protocol). Each computer using this protocol receives an IP address (4 numbers 0 to 255, in the format: 192.168.0.1). When a computer starts up, it will request an IP address (if one isn't statically assigned, like we did with out Domain controller in the previous post). It does this by broadcasting a message throughout the local network looking for a DHCP server. If it finds one, the DHCP server assigns the requesting computer an IP address (and with a Microsoft DHCP server we will get more options then you normally would with a standard wireless/internet home router DHCP service). WINS - Windows Internet Name Service. This is a little out dated, but it's similar to DNS. However, instead of looking for specific domain names, WINS can host more detailed information, such as whether a computer is a file server, a domain controller, etc. DNS is just a name to IP, WINS is a little more robust, and gives more of a purpose to IP address. So, again, to save space on the links, the screenshots are http://www.marlow.com/downloads/NetworkServices1.jpg through http://www.marlow.com/downloads/NetworkServices28.jpg 1: DNS is already installed, so first we need to 'install' WINS and DHCP. Go to the Add/Remove Programs in your control panel, and select Add/Remove Windows Components. Select Networking Services and click "Details'. 2: Put a checkbox next to DHCP and WINS. Click Ok, then Next, and you'll need your Windows 2003 CD while Windows installs these services. 3: I would recommend that you then go to Administrative Tools, (from your Start Menu) and 'Send To' the desktop the following: WINS, DHCP, DNS and Active Directory Users and Computers (because we'll be going into all three. Open DHCP. (Through your shortcut, or through Administrative Tools). As you can see, it's telling us we need to create a 'scope'. In my screen shot, you can see my server name is win2003 (it's presented as win2003.accessd.net, which is the full computer name (computer.domainname)). Right clicking on that gives us a New Scope option...click that option. 4:New Scope Wizard, click Next. 5: Give the Scope a name (this is just so you know it's your scope, you can setup multiple scopes, but that is beyond this demo). Click Next 6: Setup the IP range. Put in 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.254, click Next. (This is the range of IP addresses that our DHCP server is going to hand out.) 7: Add Exclusions: Put in 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2 (1 is going to be reserved for our internet router, and 2 is our domain controller). 8: Once you have entered your exclusions, click 'Add'. (note we didn't click next on step 7. This 'process' is going to occur several times, where we are going to put information in, but it's not really there until you click add. This is because there are going to be places where we could enter multiple 'answers/responses', and that is how these dialogues deal with that). Click Next. 9: Lease Duration: Defaults to 8 days. I typically set this to 1 day. What this is, is the amount of time that a computer that has received an IP address will wait before it verifies if it needs a new one. On a home network, this is relatively unimportant, unless you are just into playing around with networking. It is more geared to a larger network, where you may have to 'conserve' IP addresses, on a home network, if you have 254 computers running, you have a very big home....however, it's not uncommon to have a dozen items getting an IP address (a few computers, gaming systems, PDA's, etc.) Click Next 10: Make sure the 'Yes' option is selected, click yes. 11: Router/Default Gateway: This is going to be your internet router, put in 192.168.0.1, click Add, click Next. 12:DNS and domain name: Put in your domain (it's blank on my screenshot (I actually forgot that part....whoops)), in this demos case it would be AccessD.net . Now, in the 'server name' box, put in the name of the machine we are working on (in my case it's win2003), and click 'Resolve', you'll see it puts 192.168.0.2 in the IP Address boxes, click Add, then click Next. 13: WINS Server: (repeat the last part of #12 (put in computername, resolve, add, next) 14: Yes, we want to activate it, Next. 15: Yeah, DHCP is setup (almost), click Finish. 16: Notice in the DHCP window it's telling use we need to 'authorize' DHCP in Active Directory. Just a side note here, a Domain and Active Directory are actually two different creatures. They work together, but they are separate beasts. This 'authorization' is just a security method to prevent an random DHCP server from trying to butt into your network. To 'authorize' oru DHCP server, right click on the server name (win2003.accessd.net in this case) and select authorize. Now close out DHCP and open it again, and .... 17: You should not see the Authorize message anymore. 18: Click the Address Leases node, notice there are none displayed....(when we put a client on our network, that will change) 19: Scope Options: If you click the scope options node, you will see the 'options' we have added to DHCP. If you right click on Scope Options, you can 'Configure Options' and there are a LOT of extra options in there, that all help things find network services better. The wizard took care of the ones we really need, but feel free to poke around...you won't find any of that in a standard wireless router 'dhcp server'. Now, I didn't put in the WINS information when we setup our NIC during the previous post. But we didn't have a WINS server setup, so now's as good a time as any to set that up. Go into your Local Area Connections properties (or whatever you named your NIC). I typically have the 'show icon in notification area when connection option' checked so I just double click the icon in the system tray, if you don't have that checked, you'll have to go to your network connection window. 20: Click Properties 21: select TCP/IP and click properties 22: Click Advanced 23: select the WINS tab, click Add, and put in 192.168.0.2, click ok, ok, ok, and close. Time to setup WINS....oh, wait, WINS is already setup once it's installed PHEW!!! ;) Open the WINS panel (either through the shortcut you put on the desktop or through Administrative Tools). 24: Notice it gives some instructions on how to 'filter' the entries, right click on Active Registrations and click 'Display Records' 25: Click Find now (we aren't putting any filters in place) 26: Wow, look at that, there are 7 entries, 6 of which are all for 192.168.0.2...this is the information that other machines on the network can use to find network resources. Feel free to poke around, close WINS when you're done. 27: Open DNS (through shortcut or Administrative Tools). Right click on the computer name (win2003 in this case, and select properties) 28: Click the Forwarders tab.... Now this needs a little explanation. The DNS server we setup is only good for our local network. It will know the IP address of every client we connect to our network, but it has no clue about any other addresses, such as internet domain names. So we need to give it the IP addresses of some internet DNS servers to forward those DNS queries along. I recommend one of two options. Either find the DNS servers that your ISP is currently assigning your internet router, OR use public DNS servers: http://www.walltechnet.com/dnsserverlist_site/dnsserverlist.htm Put in as many as you want (two should be fine), be sure to click add for each one, the click OK, and close DNS. Now we are almost ready for a client machine. The next post is going to be a short one about our 'gateway'. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 3 17:24:36 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:24:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 3. Your Gateway Message-ID: In the demo I've been setting up for all the screen shots, it's not going to see the internet, I could set that up, but for right now, it's all 'local only' in Virtual PC, which is like it's own enclosed network. But I'm sure all of you would want your domain and your client computers to see the internet. In what we have setup so far, the IP Address for your router needs to be 192.168.0.1. There are two ways to do this. Either manually put that address into your current 'router' (whatever you bought, or your ISP provided) OR get the MAC address of your routers, and create a reservation in DHCP for it. Since there are dozens of common home routers, trying to give step by steps on this would take forever. If you are not sure how to do this, google the name and model of your router, and find the manual, I have never seen one that didn't have instructions on how to turn OFF DHCP, and setup it's local IP address. (In fact, most routers will start with an IP address of 192.168.0.1, but not all). So screen shots, and one more step before we officially connect a client. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From kens.programming at verizon.net Wed Jun 3 17:54:57 2009 From: kens.programming at verizon.net (kens.programming) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:54:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 3. Your Gateway In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is really good, Drew. Thanks for taking the time. This is exactly what I do in my home office network. Since I work from home, I had to set up a network here to be able to test functionality as close to my clients' environment as possible. Plus I liked the greater network flexibility that naturally results, primarily with user accounts for my children, which hasn't been fully implemented yet, and the more efficient way the different machines communicate as I really wanted to have a central storage location for things like digital pictures and movies, etc. I have two servers, two workstations, two four port wireless routers (one of which has the wireless turned off), and a networked printer on my network, and then my laptop that connects through the wireless. Eventually I plan to have a HTPC server on the network and get rid of my 400 disc DVD changer, and a couple more HTPC clients thus allowing me to access multiple movies on different TVs or computers at the same time. Ken Stoker Business Analyst -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 3. Your Gateway In the demo I've been setting up for all the screen shots, it's not going to see the internet, I could set that up, but for right now, it's all 'local only' in Virtual PC, which is like it's own enclosed network. But I'm sure all of you would want your domain and your client computers to see the internet. In what we have setup so far, the IP Address for your router needs to be 192.168.0.1. There are two ways to do this. Either manually put that address into your current 'router' (whatever you bought, or your ISP provided) OR get the MAC address of your routers, and create a reservation in DHCP for it. Since there are dozens of common home routers, trying to give step by steps on this would take forever. If you are not sure how to do this, google the name and model of your router, and find the manual, I have never seen one that didn't have instructions on how to turn OFF DHCP, and setup it's local IP address. (In fact, most routers will start with an IP address of 192.168.0.1, but not all). So screen shots, and one more step before we officially connect a client. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 3 17:59:22 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:59:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 4. Creating a User and Setting up a file share. Message-ID: Ok, this is pretty straight forward, but I have some screen shots again. They are http://www.marlow.com/downloads/CreateAUser1.jpg (through 9) First, open Active Directory Users and Computers (either through the shortcut you put on the desktop or through Administrative Tools). 1: Builtin, Computers, Domain Controllers, etc. These are known as OUs or Organizational Units. Obviously in a small home network, the need for a complex organizational structure is not there. But it ability is just in case. In the Builtin Tree you can see a lot of 'groups' that already exist, each with a description. 2: Note there is nothing in 'Computers' As you join computers to your domain, a computer 'object' will be put in here to represent that computer (we'll come back and look at this when we join our first client). But wait, we have a computer already...our Domain Controller (win2003), isn't it in computers? Nope, since it's a DC, Active Directory automatically assigns it to the Domain Controllers OU Screen Shot 3: 4: The Users Group. Notice there are a lot of items in here. There are a few users (Guest and a Support account are disabled) and you should have Administrator as the only other user listed. The rest are security groups that AD automatically creates. The most important one would be Domain Admins. Members of this group can do anything they want on your domain, so only put accounts you want to have that ability in that group. 5: Let's create a user. Click the New User button (I have it circled in red in this screen shot). You can also right click to get this option, or go through the Action Menu (New -->User). 6: Put in a first name, last name, and a User Login Name. Click Next 7: Put in a password (and confirm it.) Note there are several options here. You can have a user be forced to change their password, make it so they can't change it, or that their password never expires. So if you want to allow someone to have their own account, where you don't know the password, force a change, so when they login the first time, it will prompt them to change their password. If you want someone's account to have an 'open' password, that you know, you can deny them from changing it. The password expiration is used in business environments, to help with security, it probably isn't necessary in a home network.... Click next (after selecting the options you want). 8: We're done, click finished. 9: As you can see, the user we created is now in our Users OU listing. 10: double click that user, and now you can see the full properties of that account. This is the Active Directory part on top of the Domain. There are a LOT of tabs. You can put in email, address, phone, organization info, etc. All stored in Active Directory. Obviously not useful at home, but to a developer, you can access all of this information programmatically and use it in your applications! 11: Go to the Profile tab and put login.bat in the Logon Script box...click Ok. Now, go create a folder or two on your server. Name them whatever you want. Right click on them, and select properties, and go to the sharing tab, screen shot 12. Select 'share this folder' and give it a share name (and share permissions). Then, click Start --> Run --> \\MachineName\Netlogon (so in my demo's case, \\win2003\netlogon ) and hit enter. You will get an empty folder window. Right click and select New text file, name it login.bat. (make sure it's a .bat file, not a .bat.txt file). Then right click and select Edit. That will open that batch file in notepad. Now we'll create the script to map our shared drives: Net use g: \\win2003\ShareName Do this for each share you want, then save the batch file. Ok, Now we get to join a client to the domain. I may not get to that tonight still, so it may be tomorrow before I can post that. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From erbachs at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 18:35:34 2009 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 18:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: References: <39cb22f30906031358t3c21e854rc528881923e50529@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <39cb22f30906031635p107e218kc37a68613b4f1681@mail.gmail.com> Drew, >> When you setup a domain, you need your domain controller to be on whenever the network is in use, otherwise authentication fails, and things will go bonkers! ;) << That makes perfect sense. I had been trying Virtual Server 2005 for a short time only because that was the only (free) way that I could try out Windows Vista...but I uninstalled it because I couldn't seem to get VS to recognize that I, indeed, did have a VMC/VHD set up already. I think I'll give it another shot for trying out this domain thing. Since I already have Windows Server 2003 set up as a virtual PC, what do I need to go through to "convert" it to run under Virtual Server 2005? Steve Erbach On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Absolutely.... In fact, the demo I am putting together here is running > in Virtual PC. ?I've set the network connection to be 'local' only, so > it's just like have a server on a brand new 'blank' network. > > Now, to setup a primary DC using Virtual PC, I would really recommend > using Virtual Server, not Virtual PC, because Virtual server will allow > you to have your virtual machines to startup with the host computer. > When you setup a domain, you need your domain controller to be on > whenever the network is in use, otherwise authentication fails, and > things will go bonkers! ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. > > Drew, > > I appreciate this information very much. > > Here's a hypothetical question for you: ?I have Windows Server 2003 > Standard Edition installed as a Virtual PC. ?Can the same domain > business be done in this situation? > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > From nd500_lo at charter.net Wed Jun 3 19:22:19 2009 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 17:22:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com><8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com><39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't allowed to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. :) On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > Dave, > > >> When my son loses computer privileges << > > O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You beast!! > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. > > > > When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do > > it in one place, rather than on each of the computers. > > > > D > > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby > > >wrote: > > > >> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. > >> > >> Thanks Drew! > >> > >> John W. Colby > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 19:50:35 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:50:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com><8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com><39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A271A5B.8000805@colbyconsulting.com> > I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? I think every boy on earth has done something to deserve that. It's just part of the gender. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dian wrote: > I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. > > lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't allowed > to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. > > > :) > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > >> Dave, >> >>>> When my son loses computer privileges << >> O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You > beast!! >> Steve Erbach >> Neenah, WI >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee >> wrote: >>> yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. >>> >>> When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do >>> it in one place, rather than on each of the computers. >>> >>> D >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. >>>> >>>> Thanks Drew! >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From nd500_lo at charter.net Wed Jun 3 21:00:49 2009 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 19:00:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <4A271A5B.8000805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com><8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com><39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> <4A271A5B.8000805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DEF03B1676C4027A2162CEFA98F6A19@dsunit1> Dunno, John...I personally would starve without a microwave...sooooooo -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Setting up a Domain. > I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? I think every boy on earth has done something to deserve that. It's just part of the gender. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dian wrote: > I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. > > lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't > allowed to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. > > > :) > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > >> Dave, >> >>>> When my son loses computer privileges << >> O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You > beast!! >> Steve Erbach >> Neenah, WI >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee >> wrote: >>> yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. >>> >>> When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do >>> it in one place, rather than on each of the computers. >>> >>> D >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. >>>> >>>> Thanks Drew! >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 3 21:30:29 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:30:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one Message-ID: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 3 21:51:50 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:51:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <39cb22f30906031635p107e218kc37a68613b4f1681@mail.gmail.com> References: <39cb22f30906031358t3c21e854rc528881923e50529@mail.gmail.com> <39cb22f30906031635p107e218kc37a68613b4f1681@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't reuse a vmc file, instead, just setup a new virtual machine and just use the .vhd. The virtual machine will 'boot' that virtual hard drive just fine. I've never had a problem booting a virtual machine from a .vhd from Virtual PC in Virtual Server (or vice versa). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Erbach Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Drew, >> When you setup a domain, you need your domain controller to be on whenever the network is in use, otherwise authentication fails, and things will go bonkers! ;) << That makes perfect sense. I had been trying Virtual Server 2005 for a short time only because that was the only (free) way that I could try out Windows Vista...but I uninstalled it because I couldn't seem to get VS to recognize that I, indeed, did have a VMC/VHD set up already. I think I'll give it another shot for trying out this domain thing. Since I already have Windows Server 2003 set up as a virtual PC, what do I need to go through to "convert" it to run under Virtual Server 2005? Steve Erbach On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Absolutely.... In fact, the demo I am putting together here is running > in Virtual PC. ?I've set the network connection to be 'local' only, so > it's just like have a server on a brand new 'blank' network. > > Now, to setup a primary DC using Virtual PC, I would really recommend > using Virtual Server, not Virtual PC, because Virtual server will allow > you to have your virtual machines to startup with the host computer. > When you setup a domain, you need your domain controller to be on > whenever the network is in use, otherwise authentication fails, and > things will go bonkers! ;) > > Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 07:29:33 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:29:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > > http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > > And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for > the controller. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jun 4 07:43:29 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:43:29 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] I want one Message-ID: Hi Arthur I don't think the machine is meant to replace you! /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 04-06-2009 14:29 >>> Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > > http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > > And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for > the controller. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 4 07:47:28 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:47:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> <29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >> >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >> >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for >> the controller. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 07:58:52 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:58:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Setting up a Domain. In-Reply-To: <4DEF03B1676C4027A2162CEFA98F6A19@dsunit1> References: <4A26B8E8.5060002@colbyconsulting.com><8786a4c00906031118q19ba717fyc011f4a272e594f9@mail.gmail.com><39cb22f30906031355v3c5df5efmecc59650e0858aeb@mail.gmail.com> <8786a4c00906031410v6cbbbea7pf7516cbe2d26eb8c@mail.gmail.com> <4A271A5B.8000805@colbyconsulting.com> <4DEF03B1676C4027A2162CEFA98F6A19@dsunit1> Message-ID: <4a27c50f.09a1660a.59b4.fffffc1a@mx.google.com> Personally I would rather starve then use a microwave...soooooo Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dian Sent: 04 June 2009 03:01 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Setting up a Domain. Dunno, John...I personally would starve without a microwave...sooooooo -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Setting up a Domain. > I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? I think every boy on earth has done something to deserve that. It's just part of the gender. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dian wrote: > I HAVE to ask what on earth he did to deserve THAT? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. > > lol. He was actually banned from all electronics one time. He wasn't > allowed to even use the microwave or his Oral B toothbrush. > > > :) > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Steve Erbach wrote: > >> Dave, >> >>>> When my son loses computer privileges << >> O! The humanity! You withdraw COMPUTER PRIVILEGES!!!???!!!??? You > beast!! >> Steve Erbach >> Neenah, WI >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David McAfee >> wrote: >>> yeah, I've been wanting to use one at the ex's house. >>> >>> When my son loses computer privelages, its easier to log in, and do >>> it in one place, rather than on each of the computers. >>> >>> D >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:54 AM, jwcolby >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>> WOW. I will definitely be looking at this. >>>> >>>> Thanks Drew! >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Jun 4 08:31:11 2009 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 09:31:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A27CC9F.3060403@torchlake.com> Oh my! I want one, too. T jwcolby wrote: > You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > > http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > > And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. > > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 08:44:51 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:44:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A27CC9F.3060403@torchlake.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> <4A27CC9F.3060403@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4a27cfd6.09cc660a.56ab.ffffd7ca@mx.google.com> ...there's a queue Tina - get in line... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: 04 June 2009 14:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Oh my! I want one, too. T jwcolby wrote: > You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > > http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > > And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Jun 4 09:10:22 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 07:10:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49CB053AC9FB448FA14EB8F41616DEE2@HAL9005> Get to hell much faster? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >> >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >> >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or >> so for the controller. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 4 09:43:36 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:43:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> <29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A27DD98.7060203@colbyconsulting.com> It is when you see a demo like that that you can understand the speed limitations placed on our computers by the storage. The nice thing is that in perhaps two years the prices will have dropped by a factor of 4 or so. That will open up real possibilities for me. ATM a 120g SSD is about $400. When that drops to $100 I can start building a RAID system that will make some of my work really fly. Now if the 4 gb DRAMS would just drop in price. 8( Those have been hanging out at $200 each forever. I need eight of them but who can afford that? The truly funny thing is that each of us has a super mini computer running on our desks - 19 1985 terms. In 1986 I worked for a company that built super mini computers. They designed a custom machine, built out of 4 bit slice processors to get a 64 bit machine. They had an entire card (2' x 2') full of dims that was a mere 128 megs of ram. They had programmers writing a custom version of Linux just for their new machine... Selling these things for a cool million apiece. And my server has a quad core processor, each processor is probably about 10 times faster and has about 80 times more memory. OTOH it is saddled with Windows, like a vampire... sucking the life out of the computer... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >> >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >> >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for >> the controller. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 4 10:02:56 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:02:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <49CB053AC9FB448FA14EB8F41616DEE2@HAL9005> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <49CB053AC9FB448FA14EB8F41616DEE2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4A27E220.6000406@colbyconsulting.com> > Get to hell much faster? There's one in every crowd. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > Get to hell much faster? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one > > Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Arthur Fuller wrote: >> Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >>> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >>> >>> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >>> >>> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or >>> so for the controller. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 10:14:24 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:14:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A27E220.6000406@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <49CB053AC9FB448FA14EB8F41616DEE2@HAL9005> <4A27E220.6000406@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a27e4d5.11435e0a.11ed.ffffdc5b@mx.google.com> Yeah, I've noticed that too John. Usually he is called Rocky ... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 04 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one > Get to hell much faster? There's one in every crowd. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Rocky Smolin wrote: > Get to hell much faster? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:47 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one > > Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Arthur Fuller wrote: >> Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >>> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >>> >>> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >>> >>> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or >>> so for the controller. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From erbachs at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 10:16:31 2009 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 10:16:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <39cb22f30906040816v62c36b23na98dc2693e2a80a0@mail.gmail.com> John, That was very entertaining! I know a fellow like Paul. He's the sys admin at the place I used to work. I remember the day that he got a shipment from CDW of over a hundred 1 TB Seagate drives that he was going to put into some huge mirrored RAID 6 arrays...Something like 24 drives in the RAID 6 array and then mirror the whole shebang with another 24 drives...something like that. Gad! He, of course, carried around a 16 GB SSD in his fanny pack along with his Sony Xperia phone plus other goodies. Uber-geek to the max. Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > > http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > > And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. > > -- From Alun.Garraway at otto.de Thu Jun 4 10:51:44 2009 From: Alun.Garraway at otto.de (Garraway, Alun) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:51:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> And a TFT to suit...... http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20DLP%20Brochure_0409.pdf -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Im Auftrag von jwcolby Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Juni 2009 14:47 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] I want one Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >> >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >> >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for >> the controller. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:01:57 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:01:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> Message-ID: <4a27eff8.01135e0a.10a1.5e29@mx.google.com> I already have a 50inch display why would I want to downgrade to a 25inch one? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Garraway, Alun Sent: 04 June 2009 16:52 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one And a TFT to suit...... http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20D LP%20Brochure_0409.pdf -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Im Auftrag von jwcolby Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Juni 2009 14:47 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] I want one Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Arthur Fuller wrote: > Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >> >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >> >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for >> the controller. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:09:12 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:09:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> <29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906040909q2ec8b9bbg1b1059ecf292cbd1@mail.gmail.com> I have two 22" widescreens side by side but I like that curved 43 better! I wonder why it is so thick? D On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Garraway, Alun wrote: > And a TFT to suit...... > > > http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20DLP%20Brochure_0409.pdf > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Im Auftrag von jwcolby > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Juni 2009 14:47 > An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Betreff: Re: [AccessD] I want one > > Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > > Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. > > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby >wrote: > > > >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > >> > >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > >> > >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so > for > >> the controller. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> > >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Thu Jun 4 11:09:33 2009 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:09:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> Message-ID: <01d101c9e52e$d9aefcf0$8d0cf6d0$@net> Cool. I think I'll get two. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Garraway, Alun Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one And a TFT to suit...... http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20D LP%20Brochure_0409.pdf From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:16:28 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:16:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <01d101c9e52e$d9aefcf0$8d0cf6d0$@net> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> <01d101c9e52e$d9aefcf0$8d0cf6d0$@net> Message-ID: <4a27f35f.1c185e0a.403c.fffff5e0@mx.google.com> Save your money. I paid ?800 sterling for a 50inch Plasma Samsung TV and I just plug the HDMI cable in from my PC/Laptop and I have a 50inch display. Toggle back and forth between that and the TV with the remote. Now that is cool.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 04 June 2009 17:10 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Cool. I think I'll get two. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Garraway, Alun Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one And a TFT to suit...... http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20D LP%20Brochure_0409.pdf -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Thu Jun 4 11:20:05 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:20:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I want one Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78888@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Or put a tv tuner in your computer and watch tv and work at the same time while sitting in your recliner with wireless keyboard and mouse. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Save your money. I paid ?800 sterling for a 50inch Plasma Samsung TV and I just plug the HDMI cable in from my PC/Laptop and I have a 50inch display. Toggle back and forth between that and the TV with the remote. Now that is cool.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 04 June 2009 17:10 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Cool. I think I'll get two. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Garraway, Alun Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one And a TFT to suit...... http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20D LP%20Brochure_0409.pdf -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 4 11:20:32 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:20:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: LOL, our web watching program 'Websense' blocks that site as 'Sex' category.... must think it's IT porn! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I want one You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 4 11:28:28 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:28:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 3. Your Gateway In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Ken. You nailed all three reasons to have a domain setup at home (networking, kids, and development!). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of kens.programming Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 3. Your Gateway This is really good, Drew. Thanks for taking the time. This is exactly what I do in my home office network. Since I work from home, I had to set up a network here to be able to test functionality as close to my clients' environment as possible. Plus I liked the greater network flexibility that naturally results, primarily with user accounts for my children, which hasn't been fully implemented yet, and the more efficient way the different machines communicate as I really wanted to have a central storage location for things like digital pictures and movies, etc. I have two servers, two workstations, two four port wireless routers (one of which has the wireless turned off), and a networked printer on my network, and then my laptop that connects through the wireless. Eventually I plan to have a HTPC server on the network and get rid of my 400 disc DVD changer, and a couple more HTPC clients thus allowing me to access multiple movies on different TVs or computers at the same time. Ken Stoker Business Analyst -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Domain. Part 3. Your Gateway In the demo I've been setting up for all the screen shots, it's not going to see the internet, I could set that up, but for right now, it's all 'local only' in Virtual PC, which is like it's own enclosed network. But I'm sure all of you would want your domain and your client computers to see the internet. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 4 11:30:40 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:30:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <4A27DD98.7060203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27DD98.7060203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: That was one of the reasons I put up for running Vista. Sure, it uses more power, but putting DOS on a quad core Xeon processor with oddles of memory, and huge and fast drives is like putting a Nascar engine into a slot car! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 9:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one It is when you see a demo like that that you can understand the speed limitations placed on our computers by the storage. The nice thing is that in perhaps two years the prices will have dropped by a factor of 4 or so. That will open up real possibilities for me. ATM a 120g SSD is about $400. When that drops to $100 I can start building a RAID system that will make some of my work really fly. Now if the 4 gb DRAMS would just drop in price. 8( Those have been hanging out at $200 each forever. I need eight of them but who can afford that? The truly funny thing is that each of us has a super mini computer running on our desks - 19 1985 terms. In 1986 I worked for a company that built super mini computers. They designed a custom machine, built out of 4 bit slice processors to get a 64 bit machine. They had an entire card (2' x 2') full of dims that was a mere 128 megs of ram. They had programmers writing a custom version of Linux just for their new machine... Selling these things for a cool million apiece. And my server has a quad core processor, each processor is probably about 10 times faster and has about 80 times more memory. OTOH it is saddled with Windows, like a vampire... sucking the life out of the computer... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 4 11:32:44 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:32:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <39cb22f30906040816v62c36b23na98dc2693e2a80a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> <39cb22f30906040816v62c36b23na98dc2693e2a80a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A27F72C.7090909@colbyconsulting.com> >Uber-geek to the max. I'm an uber-geek on a budget. A rather SEVERE budget. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Erbach wrote: > John, > > That was very entertaining! > > I know a fellow like Paul. He's the sys admin at the place I used to > work. I remember the day that he got a shipment from CDW of over a > hundred 1 TB Seagate drives that he was going to put into some huge > mirrored RAID 6 arrays...Something like 24 drives in the RAID 6 array > and then mirror the whole shebang with another 24 drives...something > like that. Gad! > > He, of course, carried around a 16 GB SSD in his fanny pack along with > his Sony Xperia phone plus other goodies. Uber-geek to the max. > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >> >> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >> >> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. >> >> -- From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:36:09 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:36:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78888@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78888@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4a27f801.0a4d5e0a.11b0.fffff259@mx.google.com> No, if I do that, I am back to a laptop size display. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: 04 June 2009 17:20 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Or put a tv tuner in your computer and watch tv and work at the same time while sitting in your recliner with wireless keyboard and mouse. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 11:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Save your money. I paid ?800 sterling for a 50inch Plasma Samsung TV and I just plug the HDMI cable in from my PC/Laptop and I have a 50inch display. Toggle back and forth between that and the TV with the remote. Now that is cool.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: 04 June 2009 17:10 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Cool. I think I'll get two. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Garraway, Alun Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one And a TFT to suit...... http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20D LP%20Brochure_0409.pdf -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 11:39:42 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:39:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906040939n276ea34eu99f3beedb856ed06@mail.gmail.com> Same here On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:20 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > LOL, our web watching program 'Websense' blocks that site as 'Sex' > category.... must think it's IT porn! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:30 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] I want one > > You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? > > http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm > > And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so > for the controller. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 4 11:59:53 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 12:59:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com><29f585dd0906040529g3380a4cj315cf7bea4a29b6f@mail.gmail.com> <4A27C260.9070403@colbyconsulting.com> <781809D0CBCA4D4C8599423EC952DF75AE6B9F@ntovmail02.ad.otto.de> Message-ID: <4A27FD89.8000801@colbyconsulting.com> That is 2 times 1440 x 900 (horizontally). Pretty cool all in all though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Garraway, Alun wrote: > And a TFT to suit...... > > http://www.necdisplay.com/NewTechnologies/CurvedDisplay/downloads/Curved%20DLP%20Brochure_0409.pdf > > > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Im Auftrag von jwcolby > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. Juni 2009 14:47 > An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Betreff: Re: [AccessD] I want one > > Imagine what THAT would do for my database from hell! > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Arthur Fuller wrote: >> Wow. Suddenly I feel so dated. >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 10:30 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> >>> You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? >>> >>> http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm >>> >>> And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for >>> the controller. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> From pharold at proftesting.com Thu Jun 4 15:01:55 2009 From: pharold at proftesting.com (Perry L Harold) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:01:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Likewise. Maybe part of the site name - stift Perry -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one LOL, our web watching program 'Websense' blocks that site as 'Sex' category.... must think it's IT porn! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I want one You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 4 15:35:37 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 15:35:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I want one In-Reply-To: References: <4A2731C5.50207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Did you just stift me? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Perry L Harold Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one Likewise. Maybe part of the site name - stift Perry -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] I want one LOL, our web watching program 'Websense' blocks that site as 'Sex' category.... must think it's IT porn! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I want one You want to see what 24 SSDs can do in a huge raid array? http://www.destift.com/09/03/samsung_ssd.htm And all for a mere $5000 or so for the drives plus another $1500 or so for the controller. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 4 17:33:34 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:33:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine Message-ID: Sorry for the delay in getting this one out...been busy with actually work! We've already done the hard work. This one is EASY (only six screen shots....). http://www.marlow.com/downloads/Client1.jpg (through 6) This is done on a brand new Windows XP SP3 install. Though any client will do....WARNING when you log in, you will get a new desktop. A client machine setup on a domain can still allow previous 'non-domain' accounts to login, it's called 'local accounts', they just won't have access to domain resources. 1: Right click on My Computer and select Properties. Go to the Computer Name tab. Click Change.... 2: Switch the radio button from Workgroup to Domain. 3: Put the name of your domain in the domain box (in this case, accessd.net), click Ok. 4: You are prompted for credentials to join the domain (domain\adminuser + password) 5: So in this case accessd\administrator (and a password) click Ok 6: Walla, we're done, click ok, ok, and then you'll be prompted to restart. Notice that when you log in (remember to hit the Options button, to set the domain to accessd (or whatever you named your domain)), that it creates a new profile....and if you open Windows Explorer, the drives you mapped in login.bat are there. You are now on the domain! Now, you can setup roaming profiles....this will essentially store your desktop on a network server. In a business environment it can be resource intensive, but in a home environment, it might be nice....so if you try it out and like it, post a tutorial please! Next up, fun with Active Directory! Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 01:27:12 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 07:27:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a28bac3.01135e0a.10a1.03d0@mx.google.com> Link reports broken, Drew... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 04 June 2009 23:34 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine Sorry for the delay in getting this one out...been busy with actually work! We've already done the hard work. This one is EASY (only six screen shots....). http://www.marlow.com/downloads/Client1.jpg (through 6) This is done on a brand new Windows XP SP3 install. Though any client will do....WARNING when you log in, you will get a new desktop. A client machine setup on a domain can still allow previous 'non-domain' accounts to login, it's called 'local accounts', they just won't have access to domain resources. 1: Right click on My Computer and select Properties. Go to the Computer Name tab. Click Change.... 2: Switch the radio button from Workgroup to Domain. 3: Put the name of your domain in the domain box (in this case, accessd.net), click Ok. 4: You are prompted for credentials to join the domain (domain\adminuser + password) 5: So in this case accessd\administrator (and a password) click Ok 6: Walla, we're done, click ok, ok, and then you'll be prompted to restart. Notice that when you log in (remember to hit the Options button, to set the domain to accessd (or whatever you named your domain)), that it creates a new profile....and if you open Windows Explorer, the drives you mapped in login.bat are there. You are now on the domain! Now, you can setup roaming profiles....this will essentially store your desktop on a network server. In a business environment it can be resource intensive, but in a home environment, it might be nice....so if you try it out and like it, post a tutorial please! Next up, fun with Active Directory! Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 5 04:17:47 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:17:47 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine Message-ID: Hi Drew Thanks for your instructions on this domain stuff. However, when I try to view your screenshots, I only receive this: The requested URL /media/marlow/downloads/Client1.jpg was not found on this server. Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) PHP/5.2.4-2ubuntu5.3 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2.2.8 OpenSSL/0.9.8g Server at www.marlow.com Port 80 /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 05-06-2009 00:33 >>> .. This one is EASY (only six screen shots....). http://www.marlow.com/downloads/Client1.jpg (through 6) From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 08:53:24 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:53:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Message-ID: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, each tab has one or more subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access page faults when I try to save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can save it, but if I then try to name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to save. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jun 5 09:34:16 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:34:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! ;-) Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, each tab has one or more subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access page faults when I try to save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can save it, but if I then try to name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to save. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 5 09:35:06 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 07:35:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I've been getting that lately and I'm thinking something in my installation is hosed so if it reaches the right pain level I'm going to uninstall and reinstall O2K3 and the service packs. At the moment, when it happens I get around it by doing a save after almost every keystroke. And that seems to work. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 6:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, each tab has one or more subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access page faults when I try to save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can save it, but if I then try to name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to save. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jun 5 09:36:15 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:36:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine (Bad Links) In-Reply-To: <4a28bac3.01135e0a.10a1.03d0@mx.google.com> References: <4a28bac3.01135e0a.10a1.03d0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Whoops! It should be http://www.marlow.com/downloads/ScreenShots/Client1.jpg (forgot the 'ScreenShots' folder part!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:27 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine Link reports broken, Drew... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 04 June 2009 23:34 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain. Part 5. The Client Machine Sorry for the delay in getting this one out...been busy with actually work! We've already done the hard work. This one is EASY (only six screen shots....). http://www.marlow.com/downloads/Client1.jpg (through 6) This is done on a brand new Windows XP SP3 install. Though any client will do....WARNING when you log in, you will get a new desktop. A client machine setup on a domain can still allow previous 'non-domain' accounts to login, it's called 'local accounts', they just won't have access to domain resources. 1: Right click on My Computer and select Properties. Go to the Computer Name tab. Click Change.... 2: Switch the radio button from Workgroup to Domain. 3: Put the name of your domain in the domain box (in this case, accessd.net), click Ok. 4: You are prompted for credentials to join the domain (domain\adminuser + password) 5: So in this case accessd\administrator (and a password) click Ok 6: Walla, we're done, click ok, ok, and then you'll be prompted to restart. Notice that when you log in (remember to hit the Options button, to set the domain to accessd (or whatever you named your domain)), that it creates a new profile....and if you open Windows Explorer, the drives you mapped in login.bat are there. You are now on the domain! Now, you can setup roaming profiles....this will essentially store your desktop on a network server. In a business environment it can be resource intensive, but in a home environment, it might be nice....so if you try it out and like it, post a tutorial please! Next up, fun with Active Directory! Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 10:21:09 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:21:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild is in order. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! > > ;-) > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, > each tab has one or more > subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access > page faults when I try to > save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can save > it, but if I then try to > name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to > save. > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 5 13:18:35 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:18:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 13:33:35 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:33:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com> <25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com> It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jun 5 13:38:48 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:38:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 13:42:06 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:42:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com> <59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> Message-ID: <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> yes Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 13:50:29 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:50:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com> <59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> Message-ID: <4a2968f8.0ab6660a.39db.ffff9a0f@mx.google.com> Fancy doing it? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jun 5 13:53:44 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:53:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee on when though! Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault yes Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:04:18 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:04:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> Message-ID: <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> Excellent. Thank you. You can download the last two versions here: www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV3-A2003.zip www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 05 June 2009 19:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee on when though! Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault yes Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild > is in order. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >> >> ;-) >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >> each tab has one or more >> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >> page faults when I try to >> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >> save >> it, but if I then try to >> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >> save. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 14:16:01 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:16:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> Message-ID: <4A296EF1.7020203@colbyconsulting.com> I'm in if you want the help. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee on > when though! > > Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > yes > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever > > decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the > mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get > the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > >> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >> is in order. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Dan Waters wrote: >>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>> >>> ;-) >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >>> each tab has one or more >>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >>> page faults when I try to >>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>> save >>> it, but if I then try to >>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>> save. >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 14:18:34 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:18:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> WOW! I just downloaded it and ... WOW. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Excellent. Thank you. > > You can download the last two versions here: > > www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV3-A2003.zip > www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip > > > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee on > when though! > > Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > yes > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever > > decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the > mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get > the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > >> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >> is in order. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Dan Waters wrote: >>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>> >>> ;-) >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >>> each tab has one or more >>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >>> page faults when I try to >>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>> save >>> it, but if I then try to >>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>> save. >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:26:23 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 20:26:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> Well, I hereby donate all rights to the List. It needs a re-write but I have lived with it so long, I am sick and tired of it. Rename it if you want - remove my name if you want - it all yours! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 05 June 2009 20:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault WOW! I just downloaded it and ... WOW. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Excellent. Thank you. > > You can download the last two versions here: > > www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV3-A2003.zip > www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip > > > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee on > when though! > > Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > yes > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever > > decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the > mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get > the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > >> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >> is in order. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Dan Waters wrote: >>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>> >>> ;-) >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >>> each tab has one or more >>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >>> page faults when I try to >>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>> save >>> it, but if I then try to >>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>> save. >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jun 5 14:43:53 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:43:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4A296EF1.7020203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com><11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4A296EF1.7020203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <03077E09585641298F427A0276A10943@danwaters> Hi John, Well - lots of user options - eh? It's all in a single form, so it would be hard to split up the tasks. I'll take a shot at it to see how it works and how it might be made easier for a user. I'm guessing that all I will do is make the selections simpler for a user. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault I'm in if you want the help. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee on > when though! > > Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > yes > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot ...whenever > > decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running the > mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get > the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my arsenal. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > >> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >> is in order. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Dan Waters wrote: >>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>> >>> ;-) >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 tabs, >>> each tab has one or more >>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab Access >>> page faults when I try to >>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>> save >>> it, but if I then try to >>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>> save. >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 5 14:51:34 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:51:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters><4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7D25509890744CC88DA2631EDDF3B9BC@jislaptopdev> ...I've been preaching the virtues of EatBloat for at least the past three years ...and you're just NOW finding out why? ...dear god would I ever love to see a class driven collaborative effort to improve on what Max has done :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:18 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > WOW! > > I just downloaded it and ... WOW. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Excellent. Thank you. >> >> You can download the last two versions here: >> >> www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV3-A2003.zip >> www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip >> >> >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:54 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee >> on >> when though! >> >> Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> yes >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot >> ...whenever >> >> decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running >> the >> mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get >> the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my >> arsenal. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >>> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >>> is in order. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>>> >>>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 >>>> tabs, >>>> each tab has one or more >>>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab >>>> Access >>>> page faults when I try to >>>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>>> save >>>> it, but if I then try to >>>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>>> save. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 5 15:41:51 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:41:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Message-ID: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 15:47:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:47:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4a298460.23145e0a.71ca.52a5@mx.google.com> Rocky, top of head. If you shell out to it, the normal windows "association" will open the correct application for the file type on his system. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 05 June 2009 21:42 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 5 15:47:31 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 13:47:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> Message-ID: OK, never mind, I found it - Application.FollowHyperlink seems to do it. Too easy. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jun 5 15:57:35 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:57:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <05F5366251084BAAAD2036D2C56EC6BE@danwaters> If you click on an adjacent button to open the file, you can do this: btn_Click() stgPath = [Full path to the file] btnOpenFile.HyperlinkAddress = stgPath You could also experiment with an invisible button: textbox_Click() stgPath = [Full path to the file] btnOpenFile.HyperlinkAddress = stgPath btn.Hyperlink.Follow Windows will recognize what application should be used based on the extension. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 5 16:20:13 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 07:20:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005>, Message-ID: <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Darn it! How long's that been around. I've always used a call to ShellExecute() when I needed to do this. :-( FollowHyperlink is much simpler. -- Stuart On 5 Jun 2009 at 13:47, Rocky Smolin wrote: > OK, never mind, I found it - Application.FollowHyperlink seems to do it. > Too easy. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file > > Dear List: > > I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent > table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file > dialog box. > > But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains > path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it > - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with > whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of > extension (based perhaps on the association?). > > Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should > be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 16:25:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 22:25:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005>, <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a298d4a.02135e0a.3151.5d91@mx.google.com> There is also a follow method. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa204493(office.10).aspx Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 05 June 2009 22:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Darn it! How long's that been around. I've always used a call to ShellExecute() when I needed to do this. :-( FollowHyperlink is much simpler. -- Stuart On 5 Jun 2009 at 13:47, Rocky Smolin wrote: > OK, never mind, I found it - Application.FollowHyperlink seems to do it. > Too easy. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file > > Dear List: > > I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent > table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file > dialog box. > > But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains > path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it > - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with > whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of > extension (based perhaps on the association?). > > Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should > be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 5 16:51:30 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 14:51:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005>, <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Just discovered it by Googling. But you gotta make the text by a hyperlink. Which is actually nice esthetically because it's blue, underlined, and the cursor changes to a pointy finger when you hover over the hyperlink. I set it to trigger on a double-click. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Darn it! How long's that been around. I've always used a call to ShellExecute() when I needed to do this. :-( FollowHyperlink is much simpler. -- Stuart On 5 Jun 2009 at 13:47, Rocky Smolin wrote: > OK, never mind, I found it - Application.FollowHyperlink seems to do it. > Too easy. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file > > Dear List: > > I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a > parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the > open file dialog box. > > But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it > contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program > should open it > - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with > whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of > extension (based perhaps on the association?). > > Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application > should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 17:37:02 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:37:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906051537s6f522d3aq27a5544c9741711f@mail.gmail.com> The only objection I can think of is that typically on a hyperlink, single-click does the trick. A. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Just discovered it by Googling. > > But you gotta make the text by a hyperlink. Which is actually nice > esthetically because it's blue, underlined, and the cursor changes to a > pointy finger when you hover over the hyperlink. I set it to trigger on a > double-click. > > Rocky > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 5 17:48:44 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:48:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 5 17:53:57 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:53:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906051537s6f522d3aq27a5544c9741711f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005><4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <29f585dd0906051537s6f522d3aq27a5544c9741711f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Is that the convention? I'll change it. (I'm such a conventional guy!). Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file The only objection I can think of is that typically on a hyperlink, single-click does the trick. A. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 5:51 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Just discovered it by Googling. > > But you gotta make the text by a hyperlink. Which is actually nice > esthetically because it's blue, underlined, and the cursor changes to > a pointy finger when you hover over the hyperlink. I set it to > trigger on a double-click. > > Rocky > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 5 17:59:33 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:59:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 18:02:12 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 19:02:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <29f585dd0906051537s6f522d3aq27a5544c9741711f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906051602i17827681x2feffc04f95d7dc0@mail.gmail.com> No one yet has dared to call you conventional, Rocky! On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Is that the convention? I'll change it. (I'm such a conventional guy!). > > Rocky > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 5 19:18:06 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 10:18:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005>, <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4A29B5BE.18822.14970FD4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You don't have to make it a hyperlink. A simple text string will do. If you have a text box txtDocName containig a simple string on a form, putting "Application.FollowHyperlink txtDocName" in the text box's Double_Click event will do it. I'm working on an application at the moment where I store photos in subdirectories below the BE directory (one directory per "property") and store the simple file name in a field named Photo. On one form, txtPhoto_DblClick() opens an OpenFileDialog in the appropriate sub directory so that the user can pick a specific photo. The name of the selected image file in then displayed in txtPhoto. On another form, the following opens the photo in the default viewer (in my case IrfanView). Private Sub txtPhoto_DblClick(Cancel As Integer) Application.FollowHyperlink BEDir() & "\Photos\" & _ Trim$(Str$(PropertyNumber)) & "\" & txtPhoto End Sub On 5 Jun 2009 at 14:51, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Just discovered it by Googling. > > But you gotta make the text by a hyperlink. Which is actually nice > esthetically because it's blue, underlined, and the cursor changes to a > pointy finger when you hover over the hyperlink. I set it to trigger on a > double-click. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file > > Darn it! How long's that been around. > > I've always used a call to ShellExecute() when I needed to do this. :-( > > FollowHyperlink is much simpler. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 5 Jun 2009 at 13:47, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > OK, never mind, I found it - Application.FollowHyperlink seems to do it. > > Too easy. > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > > Smolin > > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file > > > > Dear List: > > > > I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a > > parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the > > open file dialog box. > > > > But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it > > contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program > > should open it > > - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with > > whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of > > extension (based perhaps on the association?). > > > > Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application > > should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is > located? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 23:21:31 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 00:21:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> Max, That is very gracious of you, thanks. As an officer of Database Advisors I will take possession of this for the company. With a little marketing we might actually get donations for the use which would help Database Advisors stay afloat. Dan has offered to work on it, and I will be looking at it too. Thanks again, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Well, I hereby donate all rights to the List. > > It needs a re-write but I have lived with it so long, I am sick and tired of > it. > > Rename it if you want - remove my name if you want - it all yours! > > Max From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 21:40:04 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:40:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <7D25509890744CC88DA2631EDDF3B9BC@jislaptopdev> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters><4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <7D25509890744CC88DA2631EDDF3B9BC@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A29D704.8070202@colbyconsulting.com> Well, Max just donated the whole shootin match to AccessD. I was thinking of making it an add-in so that any Access application could have it available. If we do that (and can make it correctly reference the application, not the add-in container) then we could pull the code out of the form and organize it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > ...I've been preaching the virtues of EatBloat for at least the past three > years ...and you're just NOW finding out why? > ...dear god would I ever love to see a class driven collaborative effort to > improve on what Max has done :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:18 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > >> WOW! >> >> I just downloaded it and ... WOW. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Max Wanadoo wrote: >>> Excellent. Thank you. >>> >>> You can download the last two versions here: >>> >>> www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV3-A2003.zip >>> www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip >>> >>> >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >>> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:54 >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee >>> on >>> when though! >>> >>> Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> yes >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >>> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >>> Hindman >>> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>> ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot >>> ...whenever >>> >>> decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running >>> the >>> mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get >>> the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my >>> arsenal. >>> >>> William >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "jwcolby" >>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>> >>>> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >>>> is in order. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>>>> >>>>> ;-) >>>>> >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>>>> >>>>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 >>>>> tabs, >>>>> each tab has one or more >>>>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab >>>>> Access >>>>> page faults when I try to >>>>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>>>> save >>>>> it, but if I then try to >>>>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>>>> save. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 5 21:59:19 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 22:59:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault In-Reply-To: <03077E09585641298F427A0276A10943@danwaters> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com><11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4A296EF1.7020203@colbyconsulting.com> <03077E09585641298F427A0276A10943@danwaters> Message-ID: <4A29DB87.2010500@colbyconsulting.com> Dan, If we can figure out how to make it an add-in then we can pull the code out of the form and divide it into modules however it makes sense. This would allow referencing the correct libs out in the mda, and would make it available from any access application for export / import any object. I am going to work on that idea. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > Well - lots of user options - eh? > > It's all in a single form, so it would be hard to split up the tasks. I'll > take a shot at it to see how it works and how it might be made easier for a > user. I'm guessing that all I will do is make the selections simpler for a > user. > > Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > I'm in if you want the help. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee > on >> when though! >> >> Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> yes >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot > ...whenever >> decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running > the >> mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get >> the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my > arsenal. >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >>> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >>> is in order. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>>> >>>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 > tabs, >>>> each tab has one or more >>>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab > Access >>>> page faults when I try to >>>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>>> save >>>> it, but if I then try to >>>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>>> save. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 01:02:05 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 07:02:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> Thank you John, I am delighted ! If people, other than William and myself, get some use out of it then I am very pleased because it was written for other people and not for myself - hence the comprehensive interface. It needs better structure and, as per William's suggestion, "CLASS-ifying". The default path works fine. If you stray for a user-defined path it has a problem - that needs looking at. Be careful of the export of tables into XML they are incredibly slow - XLS is fine however. Also, it is designed for both the interface and all the code to be contained with the one form so that people could import it into an mdb and it would not require anything else, assuming the references were ok. Of course, I am here to help also - just didn't want to do it all by myself yet again I have changed the subject above so that we can identify traffic on this matter. Max Ps - If you have a mechanism other than paypay, I am happy to make a donation of $100 to Datbase Advisors. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 06 June 2009 05:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Max, That is very gracious of you, thanks. As an officer of Database Advisors I will take possession of this for the company. With a little marketing we might actually get donations for the use which would help Database Advisors stay afloat. Dan has offered to work on it, and I will be looking at it too. Thanks again, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Well, I hereby donate all rights to the List. > > It needs a re-write but I have lived with it so long, I am sick and tired of > it. > > Rename it if you want - remove my name if you want - it all yours! > > Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 6 07:50:27 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:50:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> Max, Your assistance would be gratefully accepted. My thought is to turn this into a wizard which uses the Add-in manager to install and use. Do you use Rick Fishers Find and Replace? It is a wizard, which once installed is available from any database. As such there is no importing the form into the target database any more, the form itself as well as the code stays out in an mda/mde. That gives us the advantage of ease of maintenance. The code no longer needs to stay in the form for portability, so it can be pulled out into modules. The references to the libs you need for the wizard can be referenced right in the wizard and no longer need to be made in the FE using the wizard. I worked on this a little while last night. I am not a wizard expert (just the opposite) but if we can make this happen it would make the whole thing easier to use and more maintenance friendly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Thank you John, > > I am delighted ! > If people, other than William and myself, get some use out of it then I am > very pleased because it was written for other people and not for myself - > hence the comprehensive interface. > > It needs better structure and, as per William's suggestion, "CLASS-ifying". > > > The default path works fine. If you stray for a user-defined path it has a > problem - that needs looking at. > > Be careful of the export of tables into XML they are incredibly slow - XLS > is fine however. > > Also, it is designed for both the interface and all the code to be contained > with the one form so that people could import it into an mdb and it would > not require anything else, assuming the references were ok. > > Of course, I am here to help also - just didn't want to do it all by myself > yet again > > I have changed the subject above so that we can identify traffic on this > matter. > > Max > Ps - If you have a mechanism other than paypay, I am happy to make a > donation of $100 to Datbase Advisors. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 06 June 2009 05:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max, > > That is very gracious of you, thanks. > > As an officer of Database Advisors I will take possession of this for the > company. With a little > marketing we might actually get donations for the use which would help > Database Advisors stay afloat. > > Dan has offered to work on it, and I will be looking at it too. > > Thanks again, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Well, I hereby donate all rights to the List. >> >> It needs a re-write but I have lived with it so long, I am sick and tired > of >> it. >> >> Rename it if you want - remove my name if you want - it all yours! >> >> Max > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 6 07:54:20 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 06 Jun 2009 08:54:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A2A66FC.1080707@colbyconsulting.com> > Ps - If you have a mechanism other than paypay, I am happy to make a donation of $100 to Datbase Advisors. I am sure they would take a check. John or Keith, if you notice this message would you discuss this with Max, how to get a donation to Database Advisors without going through PayPal. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Thank you John, > > I am delighted ! > If people, other than William and myself, get some use out of it then I am > very pleased because it was written for other people and not for myself - > hence the comprehensive interface. > > It needs better structure and, as per William's suggestion, "CLASS-ifying". > > > The default path works fine. If you stray for a user-defined path it has a > problem - that needs looking at. > > Be careful of the export of tables into XML they are incredibly slow - XLS > is fine however. > > Also, it is designed for both the interface and all the code to be contained > with the one form so that people could import it into an mdb and it would > not require anything else, assuming the references were ok. > > Of course, I am here to help also - just didn't want to do it all by myself > yet again > > I have changed the subject above so that we can identify traffic on this > matter. > > Max > Ps - If you have a mechanism other than paypay, I am happy to make a > donation of $100 to Datbase Advisors. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 06 June 2009 05:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max, > > That is very gracious of you, thanks. > > As an officer of Database Advisors I will take possession of this for the > company. With a little > marketing we might actually get donations for the use which would help > Database Advisors stay afloat. > > Dan has offered to work on it, and I will be looking at it too. > > Thanks again, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Well, I hereby donate all rights to the List. >> >> It needs a re-write but I have lived with it so long, I am sick and tired > of >> it. >> >> Rename it if you want - remove my name if you want - it all yours! >> >> Max > From robert at servicexp.com Sat Jun 6 08:24:30 2009 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 09:24:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com> Sounds interesting, What is the intended purpose of this program? If it's purpose is to work with damaged databases, I would think it needs to work outside of the affected db no? In many cases the damaged db cannot be opened (either entirely or just the VBA IDE). Just thinking out loud... WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt Max, Your assistance would be gratefully accepted. My thought is to turn this into a wizard which uses the Add-in manager to install and use. Do you use Rick Fishers Find and Replace? It is a wizard, which once installed is available from any database. As such there is no importing the form into the target database any more, the form itself as well as the code stays out in an mda/mde. That gives us the advantage of ease of maintenance. The code no longer needs to stay in the form for portability, so it can be pulled out into modules. The references to the libs you need for the wizard can be referenced right in the wizard and no longer need to be made in the FE using the wizard. I worked on this a little while last night. I am not a wizard expert (just the opposite) but if we can make this happen it would make the whole thing easier to use and more maintenance friendly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com SNIP From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 6 09:39:29 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:39:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com><4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> <000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com> Message-ID: <93A44FAC3DC84745A140D492CE7FFC09@jislaptopdev> ...the intended purpose is, as the name implies, to reduce the bloat in your mdbs ...its not designed to repair the mdb ...BUT ...ime it not only reduces bloat but it gets rid of a wide variety of those creeping crud type problems ...I love it. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert" Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 9:24 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt > Sounds interesting, What is the intended purpose of this program? If it's > purpose is to work with damaged databases, I would think it needs to work > outside of the affected db no? In many cases the damaged db cannot be > opened > (either entirely or just the VBA IDE). > > Just thinking out loud... > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt > > Max, > > Your assistance would be gratefully accepted. My thought is to turn this > into a wizard which uses > the Add-in manager to install and use. > > Do you use Rick Fishers Find and Replace? It is a wizard, which once > installed is available from > any database. As such there is no importing the form into the target > database any more, the form > itself as well as the code stays out in an mda/mde. That gives us the > advantage of ease of > maintenance. The code no longer needs to stay in the form for > portability, > so it can be pulled out > into modules. The references to the libs you need for the wizard can be > referenced right in the > wizard and no longer need to be made in the FE using the wizard. > > I worked on this a little while last night. I am not a wizard expert > (just > the opposite) but if we > can make this happen it would make the whole thing easier to use and more > maintenance friendly. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > SNIP > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 09:51:44 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 10:51:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <93A44FAC3DC84745A140D492CE7FFC09@jislaptopdev> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> <000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com> <93A44FAC3DC84745A140D492CE7FFC09@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906060751s7d9b00ecq1e5f977beca3474d@mail.gmail.com> I went to the databaseadvisors site's downloads page but I couldn't find the EatBloat app. Where is it hiding? Thanks, Arthur On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 10:39 AM, William Hindman < wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com> wrote: > ...the intended purpose is, as the name implies, to reduce the bloat in > your > mdbs ...its not designed to repair the mdb ...BUT ...ime it not only > reduces > bloat but it gets rid of a wide variety of those creeping crud type > problems > ...I love it. > > William > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 10:00:18 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:00:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a2a8485.1358560a.6a70.3698@mx.google.com> Well, that sound really neat John. Sounds like a good implementation strategy. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 06 June 2009 13:50 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt Max, Your assistance would be gratefully accepted. My thought is to turn this into a wizard which uses the Add-in manager to install and use. Do you use Rick Fishers Find and Replace? It is a wizard, which once installed is available from any database. As such there is no importing the form into the target database any more, the form itself as well as the code stays out in an mda/mde. That gives us the advantage of ease of maintenance. The code no longer needs to stay in the form for portability, so it can be pulled out into modules. The references to the libs you need for the wizard can be referenced right in the wizard and no longer need to be made in the FE using the wizard. I worked on this a little while last night. I am not a wizard expert (just the opposite) but if we can make this happen it would make the whole thing easier to use and more maintenance friendly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Thank you John, > > I am delighted ! > If people, other than William and myself, get some use out of it then I am > very pleased because it was written for other people and not for myself - > hence the comprehensive interface. > > It needs better structure and, as per William's suggestion, "CLASS-ifying". > > > The default path works fine. If you stray for a user-defined path it has a > problem - that needs looking at. > > Be careful of the export of tables into XML they are incredibly slow - XLS > is fine however. > > Also, it is designed for both the interface and all the code to be contained > with the one form so that people could import it into an mdb and it would > not require anything else, assuming the references were ok. > > Of course, I am here to help also - just didn't want to do it all by myself > yet again > > I have changed the subject above so that we can identify traffic on this > matter. > > Max > Ps - If you have a mechanism other than paypay, I am happy to make a > donation of $100 to Datbase Advisors. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 06 June 2009 05:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > Max, > > That is very gracious of you, thanks. > > As an officer of Database Advisors I will take possession of this for the > company. With a little > marketing we might actually get donations for the use which would help > Database Advisors stay afloat. > > Dan has offered to work on it, and I will be looking at it too. > > Thanks again, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Well, I hereby donate all rights to the List. >> >> It needs a re-write but I have lived with it so long, I am sick and tired > of >> it. >> >> Rename it if you want - remove my name if you want - it all yours! >> >> Max > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 10:03:29 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:03:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> <000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com> Message-ID: <4a2a8544.0637560a.4647.2011@mx.google.com> Hi Robert. As it presently stands you import the self-contained form (form & code) into an mde. Then run it. It then exports all selected objects in text format. You can then re-import them or better still, create a new mdb, import eatbloat and remimport everything into your new mdb. The process of exporting as text drops all "crud" as William so succinctly puts it. Best just use it to find out. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: 06 June 2009 14:25 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt Sounds interesting, What is the intended purpose of this program? If it's purpose is to work with damaged databases, I would think it needs to work outside of the affected db no? In many cases the damaged db cannot be opened (either entirely or just the VBA IDE). Just thinking out loud... WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 8:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt Max, Your assistance would be gratefully accepted. My thought is to turn this into a wizard which uses the Add-in manager to install and use. Do you use Rick Fishers Find and Replace? It is a wizard, which once installed is available from any database. As such there is no importing the form into the target database any more, the form itself as well as the code stays out in an mda/mde. That gives us the advantage of ease of maintenance. The code no longer needs to stay in the form for portability, so it can be pulled out into modules. The references to the libs you need for the wizard can be referenced right in the wizard and no longer need to be made in the FE using the wizard. I worked on this a little while last night. I am not a wizard expert (just the opposite) but if we can make this happen it would make the whole thing easier to use and more maintenance friendly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com SNIP -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 6 10:03:41 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 11:03:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com><11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters><4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com><4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com><4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com><4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com><4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com><4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com><000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com><93A44FAC3DC84745A140D492CE7FFC09@jislaptopdev> <29f585dd0906060751s7d9b00ecq1e5f977beca3474d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Fuller" Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:51 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt > I went to the databaseadvisors site's downloads page but I couldn't find > the > EatBloat app. Where is it hiding? > > Thanks, > Arthur > > On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 10:39 AM, William Hindman < > wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com> wrote: > >> ...the intended purpose is, as the name implies, to reduce the bloat in >> your >> mdbs ...its not designed to repair the mdb ...BUT ...ime it not only >> reduces >> bloat but it gets rid of a wide variety of those creeping crud type >> problems >> ...I love it. >> >> William >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 10:07:57 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:07:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] EATBloagt In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906060751s7d9b00ecq1e5f977beca3474d@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4a296c35.08b6660a.0b89.ffff9e19@mx.google.com> <4A296F8A.8040509@colbyconsulting.com> <4a297164.0e0f660a.7a7a.ffffb240@mx.google.com> <4A29EECB.6010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4a2a0660.1c185e0a.0a3d.ffffbcbd@mx.google.com> <4A2A6613.9070004@colbyconsulting.com> <000901c9e6aa$20432570$60c97050$@com> <93A44FAC3DC84745A140D492CE7FFC09@jislaptopdev> <29f585dd0906060751s7d9b00ecq1e5f977beca3474d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a2a8650.0407560a.1d22.ffffaebd@mx.google.com> Hi Arthur, You can download the last two versions here: www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV3-A2003.zip www.peoplelinks.co.uk/msaccess/downloads/EatBloatV4-A2003.zip Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 06 June 2009 15:52 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] EATBloagt I went to the databaseadvisors site's downloads page but I couldn't find the EatBloat app. Where is it hiding? Thanks, Arthur On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 10:39 AM, William Hindman < wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com> wrote: > ...the intended purpose is, as the name implies, to reduce the bloat in > your > mdbs ...its not designed to repair the mdb ...BUT ...ime it not only > reduces > bloat but it gets rid of a wide variety of those creeping crud type > problems > ...I love it. > > William > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Jun 6 12:29:46 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 12:29:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat Approach In-Reply-To: <4A29DB87.2010500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com><11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4A296EF1.7020203@colbyconsulting.com><03077E09585641298F427A0276A10943@danwaters> <4A29DB87.2010500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, I'm wondering about this approach. It seems that people often use this to try to solve problems in their database. If a database is having problems, then perhaps keeping the EatBloat.mdb as an external tool might be a good approach, since it won't be affected by whatever problems might exist. I reformatted the code yesterday - added white space and indented 4 instead of 2. I'm just so used to this that I can't read code otherwise. Of course I'm not looking through the eyes of a 20-year old either! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Dan, If we can figure out how to make it an add-in then we can pull the code out of the form and divide it into modules however it makes sense. This would allow referencing the correct libs out in the mda, and would make it available from any access application for export / import any object. I am going to work on that idea. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > Well - lots of user options - eh? > > It's all in a single form, so it would be hard to split up the tasks. I'll > take a shot at it to see how it works and how it might be made easier for a > user. I'm guessing that all I will do is make the selections simpler for a > user. > > Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > I'm in if you want the help. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee > on >> when though! >> >> Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> yes >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot > ...whenever >> decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running > the >> mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get >> the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my > arsenal. >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >>> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >>> is in order. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>>> >>>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 > tabs, >>>> each tab has one or more >>>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab > Access >>>> page faults when I try to >>>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>>> save >>>> it, but if I then try to >>>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>>> save. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 12:42:05 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 18:42:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] EatBloat Approach In-Reply-To: References: <4A292354.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4A2937E5.5040301@colbyconsulting.com><25E44F4E1FE84CB9A889DEAEAEB11FE8@jislaptopdev> <4a296505.0aaa660a.4483.ffff8840@mx.google.com><59857107657E4F18B1FB0C33ECD521D6@danwaters> <4a296703.05a0660a.2c0e.ffff89ac@mx.google.com><11C9B3F5E2A04C4183053CFE502558B9@danwaters> <4A296EF1.7020203@colbyconsulting.com><03077E09585641298F427A0276A10943@danwaters> <4A29DB87.2010500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a2aaa70.0637560a.08cb.fffff8b8@mx.google.com> Hi Dan, It *should* be run on a regular basis (I run the export module at LEAST once a day which is why it handled daterelated version creation). That way you can go back to any "last working ok" version. Even when working ok, there have been many times when I have made changes to code and then wished I hadn't. I can easily pop up the last saved text file and copy-n-paste the code back. Max Ps. 4 spaces just waste real estate and result in needless scrolling !! I'm 65 and deaf but I don't need 4 spaces to know that the line is indented. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 06 June 2009 18:30 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] EatBloat Approach Hi John, I'm wondering about this approach. It seems that people often use this to try to solve problems in their database. If a database is having problems, then perhaps keeping the EatBloat.mdb as an external tool might be a good approach, since it won't be affected by whatever problems might exist. I reformatted the code yesterday - added white space and indented 4 instead of 2. I'm just so used to this that I can't read code otherwise. Of course I'm not looking through the eyes of a 20-year old either! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault Dan, If we can figure out how to make it an add-in then we can pull the code out of the form and divide it into modules however it makes sense. This would allow referencing the correct libs out in the mda, and would make it available from any access application for export / import any object. I am going to work on that idea. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi John, > > Well - lots of user options - eh? > > It's all in a single form, so it would be hard to split up the tasks. I'll > take a shot at it to see how it works and how it might be made easier for a > user. I'm guessing that all I will do is make the selections simpler for a > user. > > Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 2:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault > > I'm in if you want the help. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> OK - I'll give this a try. I like making utility programs - no guarantee > on >> when though! >> >> Send this to me at dwaters at usinternet.com. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> yes >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:39 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> Max - do you mean a rewrite of EatBloat? >> >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:34 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> It could really do with a re-write though....any volunteers? >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman >> Sent: 05 June 2009 19:19 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >> ...before you go that route you might give max's EatBloat a shot > ...whenever >> decompile fails to clear a strange behavior problem, I've found running > the >> mdb through EatBloat often cures what ails it ...its a pita until you get >> the sequence worked out but once there, its been a magic pill in my > arsenal. >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 11:21 AM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >> >>> LOL, first thing I tried. The database is corrupted. A full on rebuild >>> is in order. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>> Well - maybe it's time to drag out that old decompile shortcut! >>>> >>>> ;-) >>>> >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:53 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Naming subform control causes page fault >>>> >>>> I have a pretty strange one at a client. They have a form with ~10 > tabs, >>>> each tab has one or more >>>> subforms. If I try and drag and drop a new subform onto a new tab > Access >>>> page faults when I try to >>>> save the subform. If I drag a new subform CONTROL onto the tab I can >>>> save >>>> it, but if I then try to >>>> name the subform control (change the name) it page faults when I try to >>>> save. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sat Jun 6 13:56:46 2009 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 11:56:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Warnings In-Reply-To: <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> Hello to the list, I just had to setup a new computer for myself. When starting to do some work on a client's mdb, I noticed I was receiving what I thought was a lot of "Warnings". See list below. This is Access 2003 and involves a merge to Word via a hyperlink. This is Vista and the mdb is on a mapped drive. It has been awhile since I have worked on this and I cannot remember getting all these messages. Has someone organized solutions for avoiding some or all of the warnings? TIA Best, Bob 1. Open file - Security Warning Do you want to open this file? 2. Microsoft Office Access Security Warning: Unsafe Expressions are not blocked Do you want to block.. 3. Security Warning Opening Q:\Folder\FileName.mdb This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your computer. Do you want to open.. Word merge 1. Microsoft Office Access Opening "FileName".doc Hyperlinks can be harmful to your computer and data 2. Microsoft Office Access Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: SELECT blah blah... From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 6 14:07:06 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 20:07:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Warnings In-Reply-To: <19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> Message-ID: <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> Bob, from memory you have to go to Tools/Macros/Security and set the lowest selection. It is around there somewhere if I am not exactly right about where it is. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heygood Sent: 06 June 2009 19:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Warnings Hello to the list, I just had to setup a new computer for myself. When starting to do some work on a client's mdb, I noticed I was receiving what I thought was a lot of "Warnings". See list below. This is Access 2003 and involves a merge to Word via a hyperlink. This is Vista and the mdb is on a mapped drive. It has been awhile since I have worked on this and I cannot remember getting all these messages. Has someone organized solutions for avoiding some or all of the warnings? TIA Best, Bob 1. Open file - Security Warning Do you want to open this file? 2. Microsoft Office Access Security Warning: Unsafe Expressions are not blocked Do you want to block.. 3. Security Warning Opening Q:\Folder\FileName.mdb This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your computer. Do you want to open.. Word merge 1. Microsoft Office Access Opening "FileName".doc Hyperlinks can be harmful to your computer and data 2. Microsoft Office Access Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: SELECT blah blah... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 07:50:55 2009 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 07:50:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Warnings In-Reply-To: <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> Message-ID: That sounds right to me Max. GK On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > Bob, from memory you have to go to Tools/Macros/Security and set the lowest > selection. > > It is around there somewhere if I am not exactly right about where it is. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: 06 June 2009 19:57 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Warnings > > Hello to the list, > I just had to setup a new computer for myself. > When starting to do some work on a client's mdb, I noticed I was receiving > what I thought was a lot of "Warnings". See list below. > This is Access 2003 and involves a merge to Word via a hyperlink. This is > Vista and the mdb is on a mapped drive. > > It has been awhile since I have worked on this and I cannot remember getting > all these messages. > Has someone organized solutions for avoiding some or all of the warnings? > TIA > > Best, > Bob > > > 1. > Open file - Security Warning > > Do you want to open this file? > > 2. > Microsoft Office Access > Security Warning: Unsafe Expressions are not blocked Do you want to block.. > > 3. > Security Warning > Opening Q:\Folder\FileName.mdb > This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your > computer. > Do you want to open.. > > Word merge > 1. > Microsoft Office Access > Opening "FileName".doc > Hyperlinks can be harmful to your computer and data > > 2. > Microsoft Office Access > Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: > SELECT blah blah... > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 08:29:14 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:29:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Warnings In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a2bc0b0.0c135e0a.365d.53c9@mx.google.com> Well, he never came back so I guess he found it... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: 07 June 2009 13:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Warnings That sounds right to me Max. GK On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > Bob, from memory you have to go to Tools/Macros/Security and set the lowest > selection. > > It is around there somewhere if I am not exactly right about where it is. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heygood > Sent: 06 June 2009 19:57 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Warnings > > Hello to the list, > I just had to setup a new computer for myself. > When starting to do some work on a client's mdb, I noticed I was receiving > what I thought was a lot of "Warnings". See list below. > This is Access 2003 and involves a merge to Word via a hyperlink. This is > Vista and the mdb is on a mapped drive. > > It has been awhile since I have worked on this and I cannot remember getting > all these messages. > Has someone organized solutions for avoiding some or all of the warnings? > TIA > > Best, > Bob > > > 1. > Open file - Security Warning > > Do you want to open this file? > > 2. > Microsoft Office Access > Security Warning: Unsafe Expressions are not blocked Do you want to block.. > > 3. > Security Warning > Opening Q:\Folder\FileName.mdb > This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your > computer. > Do you want to open.. > > Word merge > 1. > Microsoft Office Access > Opening "FileName".doc > Hyperlinks can be harmful to your computer and data > > 2. > Microsoft Office Access > Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: > SELECT blah blah... > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jun 7 10:45:28 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:45:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think you right... definitely simplier... It also appears that the post took a couple of days to arrive. I could have hand written it, mailed it and had it re-written out at the server. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Jun 7 10:52:20 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 08:52:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005><6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Cyberpony went lame around Calgary. Had to wait for a fresh mount. Thanks to socialized medicine, however, he'll be right as rain in a couple of months. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file I think you right... definitely simplier... It also appears that the post took a couple of days to arrive. I could have hand written it, mailed it and had it re-written out at the server. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jun 7 11:05:26 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:05:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3CDF4B42412F43E0AABC33781CEBA599@creativesystemdesigns.com> Could be but I was concerned that new passport requirements slowed things. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Cyberpony went lame around Calgary. Had to wait for a fresh mount. Thanks to socialized medicine, however, he'll be right as rain in a couple of months. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file I think you right... definitely simplier... It also appears that the post took a couple of days to arrive. I could have hand written it, mailed it and had it re-written out at the server. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Jun 7 11:09:31 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 09:09:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <3CDF4B42412F43E0AABC33781CEBA599@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005><6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com><0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3CDF4B42412F43E0AABC33781CEBA599@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Gotta have a passport now just to go down to Tijuana for the day. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Could be but I was concerned that new passport requirements slowed things. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Cyberpony went lame around Calgary. Had to wait for a fresh mount. Thanks to socialized medicine, however, he'll be right as rain in a couple of months. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file I think you right... definitely simplier... It also appears that the post took a couple of days to arrive. I could have hand written it, mailed it and had it re-written out at the server. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 11:37:42 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 17:37:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005><6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com><0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3CDF4B42412F43E0AABC33781CEBA599@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a2becdb.0437560a.3000.14b1@mx.google.com> Well, you stop them coming north, don't you?? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 07 June 2009 17:10 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Gotta have a passport now just to go down to Tijuana for the day. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Could be but I was concerned that new passport requirements slowed things. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Cyberpony went lame around Calgary. Had to wait for a fresh mount. Thanks to socialized medicine, however, he'll be right as rain in a couple of months. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file I think you right... definitely simplier... It also appears that the post took a couple of days to arrive. I could have hand written it, mailed it and had it re-written out at the server. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheygood at abestsystems.com Sun Jun 7 12:56:26 2009 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 10:56:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Warnings In-Reply-To: <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com><19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55B049F2B9F841098B798BF8E40096E7@Lenny> Hello Max, Thanks for your quick response. Yes, that handles num 2 + 3 on my list. I still get the first message and I think it has to do with using a mapped drive, as when I run the same file from the C drive, I do not get that message. Anyone confirm this? I also still get the two messages when automating/performing the merge. Maybe I am stuck with the first as long as I use a hyperlink to open the Word doc? I don't ever remember getting the second one before (Warning. Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: SELECT blah blah...) Anyone? TIA Bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Warnings Bob, from memory you have to go to Tools/Macros/Security and set the lowest selection. It is around there somewhere if I am not exactly right about where it is. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heygood Sent: 06 June 2009 19:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Warnings Hello to the list, I just had to setup a new computer for myself. When starting to do some work on a client's mdb, I noticed I was receiving what I thought was a lot of "Warnings". See list below. This is Access 2003 and involves a merge to Word via a hyperlink. This is Vista and the mdb is on a mapped drive. It has been awhile since I have worked on this and I cannot remember getting all these messages. Has someone organized solutions for avoiding some or all of the warnings? TIA Best, Bob 1. Open file - Security Warning Do you want to open this file? 2. Microsoft Office Access Security Warning: Unsafe Expressions are not blocked Do you want to block.. 3. Security Warning Opening Q:\Folder\FileName.mdb This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your computer. Do you want to open.. Word merge 1. Microsoft Office Access Opening "FileName".doc Hyperlinks can be harmful to your computer and data 2. Microsoft Office Access Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: SELECT blah blah... From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 13:03:52 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:03:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Warnings In-Reply-To: <55B049F2B9F841098B798BF8E40096E7@Lenny> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com><19A1BCED931244ADA4373B9EC5733ABE@Lenny> <4a2abe5d.0407560a.4377.1223@mx.google.com> <55B049F2B9F841098B798BF8E40096E7@Lenny> Message-ID: <4a2c010b.0305560a.731e.07c5@mx.google.com> Try Control Panel/ User Accounts and turn of UAC (user Account control). It sounds like a vista related message/error. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heygood Sent: 07 June 2009 18:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Warnings Hello Max, Thanks for your quick response. Yes, that handles num 2 + 3 on my list. I still get the first message and I think it has to do with using a mapped drive, as when I run the same file from the C drive, I do not get that message. Anyone confirm this? I also still get the two messages when automating/performing the merge. Maybe I am stuck with the first as long as I use a hyperlink to open the Word doc? I don't ever remember getting the second one before (Warning. Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: SELECT blah blah...) Anyone? TIA Bob -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 12:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Warnings Bob, from memory you have to go to Tools/Macros/Security and set the lowest selection. It is around there somewhere if I am not exactly right about where it is. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bob Heygood Sent: 06 June 2009 19:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Warnings Hello to the list, I just had to setup a new computer for myself. When starting to do some work on a client's mdb, I noticed I was receiving what I thought was a lot of "Warnings". See list below. This is Access 2003 and involves a merge to Word via a hyperlink. This is Vista and the mdb is on a mapped drive. It has been awhile since I have worked on this and I cannot remember getting all these messages. Has someone organized solutions for avoiding some or all of the warnings? TIA Best, Bob 1. Open file - Security Warning Do you want to open this file? 2. Microsoft Office Access Security Warning: Unsafe Expressions are not blocked Do you want to block.. 3. Security Warning Opening Q:\Folder\FileName.mdb This file may not be safe if it contains code that was intended to harm your computer. Do you want to open.. Word merge 1. Microsoft Office Access Opening "FileName".doc Hyperlinks can be harmful to your computer and data 2. Microsoft Office Access Opening this document will run the following SQL statement: SELECT blah blah... -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kost36 at otenet.gr Sun Jun 7 15:34:51 2009 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 23:34:51 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi group, I have 6 different fields some of them with null values How is it possible to use the IIF function in order to get all of the true values separated by "," thank's /kostas From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Jun 7 16:22:12 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 14:22:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <4a2becdb.0437560a.3000.14b1@mx.google.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005><6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com><0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3CDF4B42412F43E0AABC33781CEBA599@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a2becdb.0437560a.3000.14b1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4BA24E9FE5584294901DCC3BAB8040CE@HAL9005> You don't need the passport to go there. You need it to get back in. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Well, you stop them coming north, don't you?? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 07 June 2009 17:10 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Gotta have a passport now just to go down to Tijuana for the day. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Could be but I was concerned that new passport requirements slowed things. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Cyberpony went lame around Calgary. Had to wait for a fresh mount. Thanks to socialized medicine, however, he'll be right as rain in a couple of months. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file I think you right... definitely simplier... It also appears that the post took a couple of days to arrive. I could have hand written it, mailed it and had it re-written out at the server. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Jim: Thanks but I thing the followhyperlink method seems tres simple and it works. That's the point at which I usually stop programming. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Hi Rocky: You can set up the system so that when a particular file is identified the application associated with the file extension will initiate. I have some code to that solution if you would like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file Dear List: I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file dialog box. But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of extension (based perhaps on the association?). Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Jun 7 19:24:37 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:24:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005>, , <4A298C0D.30833.13F43422@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A2C5A45.11497.417E3ED@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just been working on another system where I needed to open various types of documents. Application.Followhyperlink is taking up to 30 seconds before it throws up a warning message box about the risk of infected files and then finally lets me open the file. ShellExecute() opens instantaneously. Guess I'll go back to using ShellExecute :-0 For those who are interested, here's the ShellExecuteI() requirements: One declaration In my general functions module: Public Declare Function ShellExecute Lib "shell32.dll" Alias "ShellExecuteA" (ByVal hwnd As Long, ByVal lpOperation As String, _ ByVal lpFile As String, ByVal lpParameters As String, ByVal lpDirectory As String, ByVal nShowCmd As Long) As Long One line in my form's code: ShellExecute Application.hWndAccessApp, "Open", strName, "", "", vbNormalFocus -- Stuart On 6 Jun 2009 at 7:20, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Darn it! How long's that been around. > > I've always used a call to ShellExecute() when I needed to do this. :-( > > FollowHyperlink is much simpler. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 5 Jun 2009 at 13:47, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > OK, never mind, I found it - Application.FollowHyperlink seems to do it. > > Too easy. > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:42 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file > > > > Dear List: > > > > I have a client who wants a list of file attachments as children to a parent > > table. No problem. I get the path and file names using the open file > > dialog box. > > > > But now he wants to be able to click the attachment text box (it contains > > path and file name), and open the file with whatever program should open it > > - .doc/.docx with word, .pdf with acrobat, .xls with Excel, .jpg with > > whatever he's go it associated with, and any other file regardless of > > extension (based perhaps on the association?). > > > > Is there a way to general case this without knowing what application should > > be used to open the attachment and exactly where the application is located? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon Jun 8 00:02:55 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:32:55 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> Kostas, You wish to merge the contents of six fields into a comma separated string in such a manner that fields with Null value get completely ignored. Judicious combination of + and & operators can provide a convenient alternative in lieu of cumbersome IIf() construct. Sample query as given below, should get you the desired results via calculated field named MergedValue. F1 to F6 are the six fields in table T_Data. The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of numerical argument. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ Sample Query ==================================== SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue FROM T_Data; ==================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kostas Konstantinidis To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 02:04 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields Hi group, I have 6 different fields some of them with null values How is it possible to use the IIF function in order to get all of the true values separated by "," thank's /kostas From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Jun 8 03:41:09 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 18:41:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields In-Reply-To: <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Very clever. That's another neat hack for my toolbox. -- Stuart On 8 Jun 2009 at 10:32, A.D.Tejpal wrote: > Kostas, > > You wish to merge the contents of six fields into a comma > separated string in such a manner that fields with Null value get > completely ignored. Judicious combination of + and & operators can > provide a convenient alternative in lieu of cumbersome IIf() > construct. > > Sample query as given below, should get you the desired results > via calculated field named MergedValue. F1 to F6 are the six fields in > table T_Data. > > The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is > because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero > length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of > numerical argument. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > Sample Query > ==================================== > SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue > FROM T_Data; > ==================================== > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kostas Konstantinidis > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 02:04 > Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields > > > Hi group, > I have 6 different fields some of them with null values > How is it possible to use the IIF function in order to get all of the true > values > separated by "," > > thank's > /kostas > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Mon Jun 8 03:58:37 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:58:37 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields In-Reply-To: <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <20A32BFFAE24413F95B7A830B285E614@stevePC> A.D. -------------------------------------------------- > On 8 Jun 2009 at 10:32, A.D.Tejpal wrote: > > ... > The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is > because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero > length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of > numerical argument. > ==================================== > SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & > (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue > FROM T_Data; > ==================================== Just to clarify, as the expression in this example would be Null if all 6 fields were. So, in addition to what you stated, we should also say that the Mid() function returns Null, without error, in such a case. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4136 (20090606) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 8 04:13:38 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:13:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields Message-ID: Hi A. D. That's an old trick - using + and Null - but I've never found out how to get rid of the "first" separator and was saved by the fact that where I've had a need to concatenate fields/variants this way the first field would always have a content. Thanks for this neat and generic solution! /gustav >>> adtp at airtelmail.in 08-06-2009 07:02 >>> Kostas, You wish to merge the contents of six fields into a comma separated string in such a manner that fields with Null value get completely ignored. Judicious combination of + and & operators can provide a convenient alternative in lieu of cumbersome IIf() construct. Sample query as given below, should get you the desired results via calculated field named MergedValue. F1 to F6 are the six fields in table T_Data. The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of numerical argument. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ Sample Query ==================================== SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue FROM T_Data; ==================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Kostas Konstantinidis To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 02:04 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields Hi group, I have 6 different fields some of them with null values How is it possible to use the IIF function in order to get all of the true values separated by "," thank's /kostas From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Jun 8 04:32:13 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 19:32:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields In-Reply-To: <20A32BFFAE24413F95B7A830B285E614@stevePC> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20A32BFFAE24413F95B7A830B285E614@stevePC> Message-ID: <4A2CDA9D.23711.60D3C05@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> To avoid any problems associated with returning Null if all six fields are Null, you can use: NZ(Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2),"") -- Stuart On 8 Jun 2009 at 20:58, Steve Schapel wrote: > A.D. > Just to clarify, as the expression in this example would be Null if all 6 > fields were. So, in addition to what you stated, we should also say that > the Mid() function returns Null, without error, in such a case. > > -- > Regards > Steve > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 05:54:54 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:54:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pick a file, any file In-Reply-To: <4a2becdb.0437560a.3000.14b1@mx.google.com> References: <1E8E33007DAC46F5A4DE7D5031EC11BA@HAL9005> <6F1858D5807347468ECBD06AE6ED453D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <0C9AD3267E22460492EB401B4AB8FFFD@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3CDF4B42412F43E0AABC33781CEBA599@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a2becdb.0437560a.3000.14b1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906080354s33c48082r6aba7d4bef290a51@mail.gmail.com> And you need one now to come to the Great White North, too, and one to get back into the USA even if you can prove you're a citizen. A. On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > Well, you stop them coming north, don't you?? > > Max > > From kost36 at otenet.gr Mon Jun 8 07:06:54 2009 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:06:54 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20A32BFFAE24413F95B7A830B285E614@stevePC> <4A2CDA9D.23711.60D3C05@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <395154ECE44B4DFE9B0C7C5A2764A988@kost36pc> A.D. and Stuart thank's both of you /kostas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields > To avoid any problems associated with returning Null if all six fields > are Null, you can use: > > NZ(Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & > (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2),"") > > -- > Stuart > > On 8 Jun 2009 at 20:58, Steve Schapel wrote: > >> A.D. > >> Just to clarify, as the expression in this example would be Null if all 6 >> fields were. So, in addition to what you stated, we should also say that >> the Mid() function returns Null, without error, in such a case. >> >> -- >> Regards >> Steve >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From kost36 at otenet.gr Mon Jun 8 07:35:38 2009 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:35:38 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> Just a short break... Tickler for your free time... 1. To find a Woman usually you need Time and Money therefore: Woman = Time * Money 2. but as we know "Time is Money" so Time = Money 3. Therefore: Woman = Money * Money or else Woman = (Money)2 4. "Money is the root of all the problems" so: Money = 5. Therefore: Woman = ()2 6. Consequently Woman = Problems Does anybody know how to syntax it in SQL??? Be well all of you /kostas From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 08:55:21 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 09:55:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> Message-ID: <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> Kostas = dead duck I think that's about right... ;) Susan H. > > 6. Consequently > > Woman = Problems > > > > Does anybody know how to syntax it in SQL??? > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 09:12:14 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:12:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... In-Reply-To: <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4a2d1c40.0407560a.6885.0588@mx.google.com> Or more generically Kostas = null Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 08 June 2009 14:55 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... Kostas = dead duck I think that's about right... ;) Susan H. > > 6. Consequently > > Woman = Problems > > > > Does anybody know how to syntax it in SQL??? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 09:18:55 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:18:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d1c40.0407560a.6885.0588@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <01334E7AF4444598B4A515C1139B5F0A@SusanOne> Look, I think we should use the dead duck constant when appropriate! ;) It's not often we get to use it. Null implies that we might let him live and that could seriously screw up the reports. Susan H. > Or more generically > > Kostas = null > > Max From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 09:25:46 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 15:25:46 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... In-Reply-To: <01334E7AF4444598B4A515C1139B5F0A@SusanOne> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d1c40.0407560a.6885.0588@mx.google.com> <01334E7AF4444598B4A515C1139B5F0A@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4a2d1f6c.0305560a.74cd.0753@mx.google.com> 1. Has dead duck been instatiated. 2. Does it form part of the SQL syntax -couldn't find it. 3. null implies null and void. Nothing can live in a void unless you can avoid it you are dead as a duck (or should that be dead as a dodo) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 08 June 2009 15:19 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... Look, I think we should use the dead duck constant when appropriate! ;) It's not often we get to use it. Null implies that we might let him live and that could seriously screw up the reports. Susan H. > Or more generically > > Kostas = null > > Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 09:35:52 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:35:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d1c40.0407560a.6885.0588@mx.google.com><01334E7AF4444598B4A515C1139B5F0A@SusanOne> <4a2d1f6c.0305560a.74cd.0753@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8F216BE5B11C460EBAAEDBA6B99B07CE@SusanOne> > 1. Has dead duck been instatiated. =======It's native. > 2. Does it form part of the SQL syntax -couldn't find it. =======You obviously don't have one of MY books... > 3. null implies null and void. Nothing can live in a void unless you can > avoid it you are dead as a duck (or should that be dead as a dodo) =======Nulls are never really dead... they come back to haunt you at the worst times... Okay, I promise, I'm done now. Max, we're going to get in trouble if we don't stop. :) Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 8 12:12:20 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:12:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... In-Reply-To: <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> Message-ID: <4A2D4674.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> Well, here is my wife's take on the matter. Of course she is no mathematician. . . . OK, so isn't this mathematically incorrect from the get-go? (if * means multiplication, anyway). It should be Woman = time + money; and if time = money, then it should be woman = time = money. We are the same as money! You strike it rich when you find a good woman! Love, M- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Kostas Konstantinidis wrote: > Just a short break... > > Tickler for your free time... > > > > 1. To find a Woman usually you need Time and Money therefore: > > Woman = Time * Money > > 2. but as we know "Time is Money" so > > Time = Money > > 3. Therefore: > > Woman = Money * Money or else > > Woman = (Money)2 > > 4. "Money is the root of all the problems" so: > > Money = > 5. Therefore: > > Woman = ()2 > > 6. Consequently > Woman = Problems > > > > Does anybody know how to syntax it in SQL??? > > > > Be well all of you > > /kostas > > > From jedi at charm.net Mon Jun 8 12:35:54 2009 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 13:35:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Woman, Maths and SQL... In-Reply-To: <4A2D4674.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <4A2D4674.4030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2671.198.118.118.117.1244482554.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> > Well, here is my wife's take on the matter. Of course she is no > mathematician. > > . > . > . > > OK, so isn't this mathematically incorrect from the get-go? (if * means > multiplication, anyway). It should be Woman = time + money; and if time = > money, then it should be woman = time = money. We are the same as money! > You strike it rich when you find a good woman! Good being the operative word--if this were true. You must use the substitution principle here so you will have: woman = time + time or 2 * time or woman = twice as much time or woman = money + money or 2 * money or woman = twice the money Either way ... Mike... > > Love, > > M- > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Kostas Konstantinidis wrote: >> Just a short break... >> >> Tickler for your free time... >> >> >> >> 1. To find a Woman usually you need Time and Money therefore: >> >> Woman = Time * Money >> >> 2. but as we know "Time is Money" so >> >> Time = Money >> >> 3. Therefore: >> >> Woman = Money * Money or else >> >> Woman = (Money)2 >> >> 4. "Money is the root of all the problems" so: >> >> Money = >> 5. Therefore: >> >> Woman = ()2 >> >> 6. Consequently >> Woman = Problems >> >> >> >> Does anybody know how to syntax it in SQL??? >> >> >> >> Be well all of you >> >> /kostas >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 13:14:06 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:14:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4a2d54f2.0508d00a.384b.11b8@mx.google.com> Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 14:09:29 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:09:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Jun 8 14:38:42 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 15:38:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: <4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <42417FB1C0AD4D4CAB1651124429A5D2@XPS> BTW, there is a faster method, but it's uses are limited (make tables and as the basis for a report). It however is a heck of a lot faster then the sub-query method Jim. Define a column as: RowNum:GetLineCounter([ References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f><0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne><4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> <42417FB1C0AD4D4CAB1651124429A5D2@XPS> Message-ID: As I recall, the main problem with that approach was that you have to remember to initialize glngGetLineCounter to zero each time before you run the query. Otherwise, the counts just keep climbing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. BTW, there is a faster method, but it's uses are limited (make tables and as the basis for a report). It however is a heck of a lot faster then the sub-query method Jim. Define a column as: RowNum:GetLineCounter([ References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> <42417FB1C0AD4D4CAB1651124429A5D2@XPS> Message-ID: <4a2d6cc6.0707d00a.1fdb.1445@mx.google.com> Thanks Jim, I think I will have to go that route. Another problem I ran into was that I wanted the report to sort on a field but I didn't want it to appear in the report or group by it either. Separate table will solve it all for me. thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 08 June 2009 20:39 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. BTW, there is a faster method, but it's uses are limited (make tables and as the basis for a report). It however is a heck of a lot faster then the sub-query method Jim. Define a column as: RowNum:GetLineCounter([ References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f><0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne><4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> <42417FB1C0AD4D4CAB1651124429A5D2@XPS> Message-ID: <4a2d703e.0702d00a.5a17.31c6@mx.google.com> Thanks Charlotte. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 08 June 2009 20:50 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. As I recall, the main problem with that approach was that you have to remember to initialize glngGetLineCounter to zero each time before you run the query. Otherwise, the counts just keep climbing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. BTW, there is a faster method, but it's uses are limited (make tables and as the basis for a report). It however is a heck of a lot faster then the sub-query method Jim. Define a column as: RowNum:GetLineCounter([ References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4ECA8306356342F9B7E69A49C4054DED@XPS> You need to have a unique key: SELECT (SELECT Count(ID) FROM myTable t2 WHERE t2.ID < t1.ID)+1 AS RowNum, * FROM myTable t1 ORDER BY t1.ID As for the second, just define a column as: Row:1 Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 15:33:13 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:33:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: <4ECA8306356342F9B7E69A49C4054DED@XPS> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc> <496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne> <4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> <4ECA8306356342F9B7E69A49C4054DED@XPS> Message-ID: <4a2d758c.1818d00a.5921.3852@mx.google.com> Thanks Jim, I "stumbled" across the answer for the second one. I will try the first. Cheers Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 08 June 2009 20:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. You need to have a unique key: SELECT (SELECT Count(ID) FROM myTable t2 WHERE t2.ID < t1.ID)+1 AS RowNum, * FROM myTable t1 ORDER BY t1.ID As for the second, just define a column as: Row:1 Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 8 16:02:11 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:02:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Message-ID: Hi Max Now what is this? An impatient youngster (aged 65?) who can't browse the archive? Anyway, Jim is right. Creating a temp table with an AutoNumber is much faster than using the traditional subquery. However, here is the other method from 2001 using a sequential variable and taking care of the issue Charlotte mentions: http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/htdig/accessd/2005-June/035324.html and another one here using a static collection which is extremely fast - and smart too - as it can be used in a select query you browse(!): http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-May/044208.html /gustav >>> max.wanadoo at gmail.com 08-06-2009 21:09 >>> Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 16:10:56 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:10:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a2d7e64.0a1ad00a.6306.43d5@mx.google.com> Huh! Consider my wrists duly slapped! Sorry, But, to be honest, I cannot find my way around the archives. It is quicker (usually) for me to "stumble" across the answer then to find it in the archives. The reason for this (and trust me, I am one of the main culprits) is that the subject very often doesn't represent the contents. This is particularly so when it goes off target and then runs and runs. Couple this with the "krap" history on postings and it is hard to find the answers. Anyway, I wouldn't change it for the world and I know that there are great guys and gals out there who are always willing to step in. Thanks Gustav. Top man! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 08 June 2009 22:02 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Max Now what is this? An impatient youngster (aged 65?) who can't browse the archive? Anyway, Jim is right. Creating a temp table with an AutoNumber is much faster than using the traditional subquery. However, here is the other method from 2001 using a sequential variable and taking care of the issue Charlotte mentions: http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/htdig/accessd/2005-June/035324.html and another one here using a static collection which is extremely fast - and smart too - as it can be used in a select query you browse(!): http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-May/044208.html /gustav >>> max.wanadoo at gmail.com 08-06-2009 21:09 >>> Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Jun 8 15:41:23 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:41:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f><0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne><4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> <42417FB1C0AD4D4CAB1651124429A5D2@XPS> Message-ID: <1AC29F9B543345BF9C9075CBA754A89F@XPS> Actually, the main problem is that each time you revisit a row, the function fires again, so the could keeps incrementing. So for example, if you simply view the output of a query, as you scroll around, the row numbers will keep changing. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 3:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. As I recall, the main problem with that approach was that you have to remember to initialize glngGetLineCounter to zero each time before you run the query. Otherwise, the counts just keep climbing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. BTW, there is a faster method, but it's uses are limited (make tables and as the basis for a report). It however is a heck of a lot faster then the sub-query method Jim. Define a column as: RowNum:GetLineCounter([ Hi Max You are right. A search option is missing. However, you can often google. Try: databaseadvisors gustav rowcounter Now, here's the surprise: Do remember to click here: In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 1 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included. This reveals one more link you don't want to see as it is only a little more than one year old. Time to join Susan's Club. Yesterday I had to google to find out how to do the inverse of tangens (that's arc tangens you may know) to calculate an angle in the construction of the official Euro sign, ?. But what should I do? Haven't used that stuff since the 70s. /gustav >>> max.wanadoo at gmail.com 08-06-2009 23:10 >>> Huh! Consider my wrists duly slapped! Sorry, But, to be honest, I cannot find my way around the archives. It is quicker (usually) for me to "stumble" across the answer then to find it in the archives. The reason for this (and trust me, I am one of the main culprits) is that the subject very often doesn't represent the contents. This is particularly so when it goes off target and then runs and runs. Couple this with the "krap" history on postings and it is hard to find the answers. Anyway, I wouldn't change it for the world and I know that there are great guys and gals out there who are always willing to step in. Thanks Gustav. Top man! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 08 June 2009 22:02 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Max Now what is this? An impatient youngster (aged 65?) who can't browse the archive? Anyway, Jim is right. Creating a temp table with an AutoNumber is much faster than using the traditional subquery. However, here is the other method from 2001 using a sequential variable and taking care of the issue Charlotte mentions: http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/htdig/accessd/2005-June/035324.html and another one here using a static collection which is extremely fast - and smart too - as it can be used in a select query you browse(!): http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-May/044208.html /gustav >>> max.wanadoo at gmail.com 08-06-2009 21:09 >>> Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 16:42:16 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:42:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a2d85bc.0508d00a.71bf.10fc@mx.google.com> >>construction of the official Euro sign, ?. But what should I do? Why indeed. Just download the jpeg !!! The rest of my reply is on OT. Under My psychometric measurements or wot? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 08 June 2009 22:33 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Max You are right. A search option is missing. However, you can often google. Try: databaseadvisors gustav rowcounter Now, here's the surprise: Do remember to click here: In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the 1 already displayed. If you like, you can repeat the search with the omitted results included. This reveals one more link you don't want to see as it is only a little more than one year old. Time to join Susan's Club. Yesterday I had to google to find out how to do the inverse of tangens (that's arc tangens you may know) to calculate an angle in the construction of the official Euro sign, ?. But what should I do? Haven't used that stuff since the 70s. /gustav >>> max.wanadoo at gmail.com 08-06-2009 23:10 >>> Huh! Consider my wrists duly slapped! Sorry, But, to be honest, I cannot find my way around the archives. It is quicker (usually) for me to "stumble" across the answer then to find it in the archives. The reason for this (and trust me, I am one of the main culprits) is that the subject very often doesn't represent the contents. This is particularly so when it goes off target and then runs and runs. Couple this with the "krap" history on postings and it is hard to find the answers. Anyway, I wouldn't change it for the world and I know that there are great guys and gals out there who are always willing to step in. Thanks Gustav. Top man! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 08 June 2009 22:02 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Max Now what is this? An impatient youngster (aged 65?) who can't browse the archive? Anyway, Jim is right. Creating a temp table with an AutoNumber is much faster than using the traditional subquery. However, here is the other method from 2001 using a sequential variable and taking care of the issue Charlotte mentions: http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/htdig/accessd/2005-June/035324.html and another one here using a static collection which is extremely fast - and smart too - as it can be used in a select query you browse(!): http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2006-May/044208.html /gustav >>> max.wanadoo at gmail.com 08-06-2009 21:09 >>> Any takers please? Max -----Original Message----- From: Max Wanadoo [mailto:max.wanadoo at gmail.com] Sent: 08 June 2009 19:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: SQL Gurus - Running count. Hi Guys, With a select statement, how do I get a running count matching the rows return. Starting at 1 and incrementing by 1 for each row. The final count to be equal to the number of rows returned. The count to be part of the query. I also want a second Count but this time not incremented. Just a 1 in a column for each row returned. Thanks Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 17:06:27 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:06:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. In-Reply-To: <1AC29F9B543345BF9C9075CBA754A89F@XPS> References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com><000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f><0CAD12A8B2684C73A88A7D2632DF67EF@kost36pc><496F696CC9334525B467591594F7FCEE@SusanOne><4a2d61f1.0707d00a.183a.0b68@mx.google.com> <42417FB1C0AD4D4CAB1651124429A5D2@XPS> <1AC29F9B543345BF9C9075CBA754A89F@XPS> Message-ID: <4a2d8b66.1c07d00a.0350.5433@mx.google.com> Interesting. I will watch out for that. thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 08 June 2009 21:41 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. Actually, the main problem is that each time you revisit a row, the function fires again, so the could keeps incrementing. So for example, if you simply view the output of a query, as you scroll around, the row numbers will keep changing. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 3:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. As I recall, the main problem with that approach was that you have to remember to initialize glngGetLineCounter to zero each time before you run the query. Otherwise, the counts just keep climbing. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:39 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Gurus - Running count. BTW, there is a faster method, but it's uses are limited (make tables and as the basis for a report). It however is a heck of a lot faster then the sub-query method Jim. Define a column as: RowNum:GetLineCounter([ Dear List: I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that I've got to figure out what's causing it. I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real error is - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" which I didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL that being run. Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 18:20:12 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:20:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005> Message-ID: <76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> > I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel Update > without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no Debug button > so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound form - no DAO, > no > recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions in the code, third, > it's > not reproducible, but it happens enough that I've got to figure out what's > causing it. > =======Got a Recordset object? Susan From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 19:08:49 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:08:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005> <76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> Message-ID: Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and closed. Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without a .Addnew or .Edit... Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel > Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no > Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions > in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that > I've got to figure out what's causing it. > =======Got a Recordset object? Susan -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Jun 8 19:17:24 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:17:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> Message-ID: Any transactions that might be rolled back? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and closed. Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without a .Addnew or .Edit... Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel > Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no > Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions > in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that > I've got to figure out what's causing it. > =======Got a Recordset object? Susan -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 19:36:18 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:36:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> Message-ID: No. No transactions. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Any transactions that might be rolled back? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and closed. Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without a .Addnew or .Edit... Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel > Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no > Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions > in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that > I've got to figure out what's causing it. > =======Got a Recordset object? Susan -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Jun 8 19:37:05 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:37:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> Message-ID: <1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Any transactions that might be rolled back? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and > closed. > Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without > a .Addnew or .Edit... > > Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no > possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or > .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > >> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >> > > =======Got a Recordset object? > > Susan > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 19:56:42 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 17:56:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> <1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> Message-ID: Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. Resume next only in snips like this: OutWeGo: On Error Resume Next rstMatterAction.Close Set rstMatterAction = Nothing rstMatterActionPersons.Close Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing db.Close Set db = Nothing Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: Exit Sub Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Any transactions that might be rolled back? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and > closed. > Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without > a .Addnew or .Edit... > > Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no > possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or > .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > >> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >> > > =======Got a Recordset object? > > Susan > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 8 19:57:25 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:57:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005> Message-ID: ...sub-query/form hitting the same record as the main? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Dear List: > > I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel Update > without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no Debug button > so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound form - no DAO, > no > recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions in the code, third, > it's > not reproducible, but it happens enough that I've got to figure out what's > causing it. > > I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real error > is > - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" which I > didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL that being run. > > Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 20:04:32 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:04:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> Message-ID: <8EC05095F2EB43AD9CC46CDDF2AF7E94@SusanOne> Rocky, I'd comment out the error code until it's resolved. Susan H. > Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. > > Resume next only in snips like this: > > OutWeGo: > > On Error Resume Next > > rstMatterAction.Close > Set rstMatterAction = Nothing > rstMatterActionPersons.Close > Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing > > db.Close > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: > Exit Sub > > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >> closed. >> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without >> a .Addnew or .Edit... >> >> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound >> >>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >>> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >>> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >> >> =======Got a Recordset object? >> >> Susan >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Mon Jun 8 20:54:06 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 11:54:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <8EC05095F2EB43AD9CC46CDDF2AF7E94@SusanOne> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> <8EC05095F2EB43AD9CC46CDDF2AF7E94@SusanOne> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC27200818562E27@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> I agree with this approach. Sometimes the error traps can hide problems. good luck regards Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, 9 June 2009 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Rocky, I'd comment out the error code until it's resolved. Susan H. > Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. > > Resume next only in snips like this: > > OutWeGo: > > On Error Resume Next > > rstMatterAction.Close > Set rstMatterAction = Nothing > rstMatterActionPersons.Close > Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing > > db.Close > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: > Exit Sub > > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >> closed. >> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without >> a .Addnew or .Edit... >> >> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound >> >>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >>> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >>> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >> >> =======Got a Recordset object? >> >> Susan >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. 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From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 8 21:03:35 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 19:03:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005> <76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne> <1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> Message-ID: <25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Rocky: Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error Resume Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. Resume next only in snips like this: OutWeGo: On Error Resume Next rstMatterAction.Close Set rstMatterAction = Nothing rstMatterActionPersons.Close Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing db.Close Set db = Nothing Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: Exit Sub Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Any transactions that might be rolled back? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and > closed. > Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update without > a .Addnew or .Edit... > > Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no > possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or > .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > >> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >> > > =======Got a Recordset object? > > Susan > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 22:04:17 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:04:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005> Message-ID: <1EE08DE3F0494622910AC07DA9264F7C@HAL9005> Possible. Work-around? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit ...sub-query/form hitting the same record as the main? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Dear List: > > I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel > Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no > Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound > form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions > in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that > I've got to figure out what's causing it. > > I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real > error is > - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" which > I didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL that being run. > > Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. > > > > MTIA > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 22:07:48 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:07:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <8EC05095F2EB43AD9CC46CDDF2AF7E94@SusanOne> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> <8EC05095F2EB43AD9CC46CDDF2AF7E94@SusanOne> Message-ID: <93EEA0071AA642D4B1AE77A6B84F6C04@HAL9005> Ooh, not a trivial task. In any event the On error statement is executed on condition of a Boolean global which is set to true only if the file is an mde. If an mdb - no error traps so I can debug. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 6:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Rocky, I'd comment out the error code until it's resolved. Susan H. > Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. > > Resume next only in snips like this: > > OutWeGo: > > On Error Resume Next > > rstMatterAction.Close > Set rstMatterAction = Nothing > rstMatterActionPersons.Close > Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing > > db.Close > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: > Exit Sub > > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >> closed. >> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update >> without a .Addnew or .Edit... >> >> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >> Harkins >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>> bound >> >>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update >>> instructions in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it >>> happens enough that I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >> >> =======Got a Recordset object? >> >> Susan >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 22:15:46 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:15:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys> <25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <65308347291A4FB2BB31C8BB04205568@HAL9005> The error message is not being trapped in a line of code. Ctrl-break doesn't drop me into the VBA. And the on error statement only gets executed if the file is an mde. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Hi Rocky: Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error Resume Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. Resume next only in snips like this: OutWeGo: On Error Resume Next rstMatterAction.Close Set rstMatterAction = Nothing rstMatterActionPersons.Close Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing db.Close Set db = Nothing Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: Exit Sub Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Any transactions that might be rolled back? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and > closed. > Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update > without a .Addnew or .Edit... > > Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no > possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or > .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan > Harkins > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >> bound > >> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >> > > =======Got a Recordset object? > > Susan > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Jun 8 22:29:26 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:29:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys><25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <65308347291A4FB2BB31C8BB04205568@HAL9005> Message-ID: <81D94B8EF3844B0880AAF099593FD7DD@Mattys> I believe you have to set the option to break on all/unhandled errors - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > The error message is not being trapped in a line of code. Ctrl-break > doesn't drop me into the VBA. And the on error statement only gets > executed > if the file is an mde. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Hi Rocky: > > Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error Resume > Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. > > Resume next only in snips like this: > > OutWeGo: > > On Error Resume Next > > rstMatterAction.Close > Set rstMatterAction = Nothing > rstMatterActionPersons.Close > Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing > > db.Close > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: > Exit Sub > > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >> closed. >> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update >> without a .Addnew or .Edit... >> >> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >> Harkins >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>> bound >> >>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >>> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >>> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >> >> =======Got a Recordset object? >> >> Susan >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 8 22:33:56 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 23:33:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005> <1EE08DE3F0494622910AC07DA9264F7C@HAL9005> Message-ID: <9EAC5FE905654C269BD730C65AE879B7@jislaptopdev> ...lol ...redesign the form to have a single data source ...I've seen this happen when a subform is bound to a different query based on the same table/query as the main form record source ...if one is dirty, an update to the other can give you strange feedback depending on your cb. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:04 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Possible. Work-around? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > ...sub-query/form hitting the same record as the main? > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> Dear List: >> >> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a bound >> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >> >> I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real >> error is >> - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" which >> I didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL that being >> run. >> >> Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. >> >> >> >> MTIA >> >> >> >> Rocky Smolin >> >> Beach Access Software >> >> 858-259-4334 >> >> www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> www.bchacc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 22:59:21 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 20:59:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <81D94B8EF3844B0880AAF099593FD7DD@Mattys> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys><25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com><65308347291A4FB2BB31C8BB04205568@HAL9005> <81D94B8EF3844B0880AAF099593FD7DD@Mattys> Message-ID: <941BDB920BA3411EB65B2AC6B503AF06@HAL9005> That sounds promising. Can't find the switch though. Where do you set that option (A2K3)? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit I believe you have to set the option to break on all/unhandled errors - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:15 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > The error message is not being trapped in a line of code. Ctrl-break > doesn't drop me into the VBA. And the on error statement only gets > executed > if the file is an mde. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Hi Rocky: > > Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error Resume > Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. > > Resume next only in snips like this: > > OutWeGo: > > On Error Resume Next > > rstMatterAction.Close > Set rstMatterAction = Nothing > rstMatterActionPersons.Close > Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing > > db.Close > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: > Exit Sub > > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charlotte Foust" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >> closed. >> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update >> without a .Addnew or .Edit... >> >> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >> Harkins >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>> bound >> >>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >>> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >>> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >> >> =======Got a Recordset object? >> >> Susan >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 8 23:12:50 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 21:12:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: <9EAC5FE905654C269BD730C65AE879B7@jislaptopdev> References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><1EE08DE3F0494622910AC07DA9264F7C@HAL9005> <9EAC5FE905654C269BD730C65AE879B7@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <30CDE3164D5C4FB5BB6B23BD7E8B50CA@HAL9005> Legacy app - redesign is not a practical option - the form is hugely complex. Hugely. If this is the problem, I'll have to find a work-around. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit ...lol ...redesign the form to have a single data source ...I've seen this happen when a subform is bound to a different query based on the same table/query as the main form record source ...if one is dirty, an update to the other can give you strange feedback depending on your cb. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:04 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Possible. Work-around? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > ...sub-query/form hitting the same record as the main? > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> Dear List: >> >> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >> bound form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update >> instructions in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it >> happens enough that I've got to figure out what's causing it. >> >> I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real >> error is >> - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" which >> I didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL that being >> run. >> >> Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. >> >> >> >> MTIA >> >> >> >> Rocky Smolin >> >> Beach Access Software >> >> 858-259-4334 >> >> www.e-z-mrp.com >> >> www.bchacc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Jun 8 23:14:17 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 00:14:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys><25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com><65308347291A4FB2BB31C8BB04205568@HAL9005><81D94B8EF3844B0880AAF099593FD7DD@Mattys> <941BDB920BA3411EB65B2AC6B503AF06@HAL9005> Message-ID: Hi Rocky, I have 2007 only (got tired of waiting for config) Someone else will know I think ... - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > That sounds promising. Can't find the switch though. Where do you set > that > option (A2K3)? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > I believe you have to set the option to break on all/unhandled errors > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> The error message is not being trapped in a line of code. Ctrl-break >> doesn't drop me into the VBA. And the on error statement only gets >> executed >> if the file is an mde. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Hi Rocky: >> >> Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error Resume >> Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. >> >> Resume next only in snips like this: >> >> OutWeGo: >> >> On Error Resume Next >> >> rstMatterAction.Close >> Set rstMatterAction = Nothing >> rstMatterActionPersons.Close >> Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing >> >> db.Close >> Set db = Nothing >> >> >> >> Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: >> Exit Sub >> >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charlotte Foust" >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> >>> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >>> >>> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >>> closed. >>> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update >>> without a .Addnew or .Edit... >>> >>> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >>> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >>> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >>> Harkins >>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >>> >>>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>>> bound >>> >>>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >>>> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >>>> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>>> >>> >>> =======Got a Recordset object? >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 9 00:05:55 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:05:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><1EE08DE3F0494622910AC07DA9264F7C@HAL9005><9EAC5FE905654C269BD730C65AE879B7@jislaptopdev> <30CDE3164D5C4FB5BB6B23BD7E8B50CA@HAL9005> Message-ID: ...if you have overlapping, updatable record sources there won't be a work around ...you have to fix it ...is this a new problem without any changes? ...or has there been some recent changes to the app by you or someone else? ...if new without any changes, I'd approach it as corruption ...if there have been changes, I'd look at all of the record sources on the form and its subs including those for any controls or lookups ...looking to see if they are using the same source. ...and worst case with an intermittent type problem ...consider line numbering your code and re-doing your error codes to feed you the line producing the error ...I've used the mztools add-in to do this. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:12 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Legacy app - redesign is not a practical option - the form is hugely > complex. Hugely. If this is the problem, I'll have to find a > work-around. > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:34 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > ...lol ...redesign the form to have a single data source ...I've seen this > happen when a subform is bound to a different query based on the same > table/query as the main form record source ...if one is dirty, an update > to > the other can give you strange feedback depending on your cb. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:04 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> Possible. Work-around? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> ...sub-query/form hitting the same record as the main? >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Rocky Smolin" >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> Dear List: >>> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>> bound form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update >>> instructions in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it >>> happens enough that I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >>> I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real >>> error is >>> - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" which >>> I didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL that being >>> run. >>> >>> Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. >>> >>> >>> >>> MTIA >>> >>> >>> >>> Rocky Smolin >>> >>> Beach Access Software >>> >>> 858-259-4334 >>> >>> www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> www.bchacc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon Jun 8 23:50:20 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:20:20 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <20A32BFFAE24413F95B7A830B285E614@stevePC><4A2CDA9D.23711.60D3C05@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <395154ECE44B4DFE9B0C7C5A2764A988@kost36pc> Message-ID: <00cb01c9e8c0$e8f36580$f35fa27a@personald6374f> You are most welcome Kostas! Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Kostas Konstantinidis To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 17:36 Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields A.D. and Stuart thank's both of you /kostas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields > To avoid any problems associated with returning Null if all six fields > are Null, you can use: > > NZ(Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & > (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2),"") > -- > Stuart > > On 8 Jun 2009 at 20:58, Steve Schapel wrote: > >> A.D. > >> Just to clarify, as the expression in this example would be Null if all 6 >> fields were. So, in addition to what you stated, we should also say that >> the Mid() function returns Null, without error, in such a case. >> -- >> Regards >> Steve From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue Jun 9 00:08:04 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:38:04 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f> <4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00cd01c9e8c0$ed860d00$f35fa27a@personald6374f> Thanks for the kind words Stuart! Your subsequent suggestion, applying Nz() function over the whole expression, would ensure that the result is always a string. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Stuart McLachlan To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 14:11 Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields Very clever. That's another neat hack for my toolbox. -- Stuart On 8 Jun 2009 at 10:32, A.D.Tejpal wrote: > Kostas, > > You wish to merge the contents of six fields into a comma > separated string in such a manner that fields with Null value get > completely ignored. Judicious combination of + and & operators can > provide a convenient alternative in lieu of cumbersome IIf() > construct. > > Sample query as given below, should get you the desired results > via calculated field named MergedValue. F1 to F6 are the six fields in > table T_Data. > > The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is > because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero > length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of > numerical argument. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > Sample Query > ==================================== > SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue > FROM T_Data; > ==================================== From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue Jun 9 00:02:16 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:32:16 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: <7c7841600905290748pd3a7741ja324c6b6ee2bded6@mail.gmail.com>, <000001c9e811$92f975c0$155fa27a@personald6374f><4A2CCEA5.18143.5DE79B0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <20A32BFFAE24413F95B7A830B285E614@stevePC> Message-ID: <00cc01c9e8c0$eb4c49a0$f35fa27a@personald6374f> Thanks for the clarification Steve! I agree. In fact, during my tests before posting the suggested solution, I did verify safe behavior of Mid() function for Null as well as zero length string. Stuart's suggestion to apply Nz() function over the whole expression would ensure that the result would always be a string. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Schapel To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 14:28 Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields A.D. -------------------------------------------------- > On 8 Jun 2009 at 10:32, A.D.Tejpal wrote: > ... > The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is > because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero > length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of > numerical argument. > ==================================== > SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & > (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue > FROM T_Data; > ==================================== Just to clarify, as the expression in this example would be Null if all 6 fields were. So, in addition to what you stated, we should also say that the Mid() function returns Null, without error, in such a case. -- Regards Steve From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue Jun 9 00:11:19 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:41:19 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields References: Message-ID: <00ce01c9e8c0$efc6fc50$f35fa27a@personald6374f> Thanks for the kind words Gustav! As always, you are so supportive. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 14:43 Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields Hi A. D. That's an old trick - using + and Null - but I've never found out how to get rid of the "first" separator and was saved by the fact that where I've had a need to concatenate fields/variants this way the first field would always have a content. Thanks for this neat and generic solution! /gustav >>> adtp at airtelmail.in 08-06-2009 07:02 >>> Kostas, You wish to merge the contents of six fields into a comma separated string in such a manner that fields with Null value get completely ignored. Judicious combination of + and & operators can provide a convenient alternative in lieu of cumbersome IIf() construct. Sample query as given below, should get you the desired results via calculated field named MergedValue. F1 to F6 are the six fields in table T_Data. The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of numerical argument. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ Sample Query ==================================== SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue FROM T_Data; ==================================== From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 9 00:12:44 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 01:12:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys><25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com><65308347291A4FB2BB31C8BB04205568@HAL9005><81D94B8EF3844B0880AAF099593FD7DD@Mattys> <941BDB920BA3411EB65B2AC6B503AF06@HAL9005> Message-ID: ...open the VBE ...then tools/options/general William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:59 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > That sounds promising. Can't find the switch though. Where do you set > that > option (A2K3)? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > I believe you have to set the option to break on all/unhandled errors > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> The error message is not being trapped in a line of code. Ctrl-break >> doesn't drop me into the VBA. And the on error statement only gets >> executed >> if the file is an mde. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Hi Rocky: >> >> Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error Resume >> Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. >> >> Resume next only in snips like this: >> >> OutWeGo: >> >> On Error Resume Next >> >> rstMatterAction.Close >> Set rstMatterAction = Nothing >> rstMatterActionPersons.Close >> Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing >> >> db.Close >> Set db = Nothing >> >> >> >> Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: >> Exit Sub >> >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charlotte Foust" >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> >>> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >>> >>> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >>> closed. >>> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update >>> without a .Addnew or .Edit... >>> >>> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >>> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >>> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >>> Harkins >>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >>> >>>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>>> bound >>> >>>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update instructions >>>> in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it happens enough that >>>> I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>>> >>> >>> =======Got a Recordset object? >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 9 00:40:56 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:40:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><1EE08DE3F0494622910AC07DA9264F7C@HAL9005><9EAC5FE905654C269BD730C65AE879B7@jislaptopdev><30CDE3164D5C4FB5BB6B23BD7E8B50CA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <31BFA8F02BC64870A60632D2CBE6B0F8@HAL9005> Unfortunately, I think that's the only approach. Fortunately, I'm on time and materials. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit ...if you have overlapping, updatable record sources there won't be a work around ...you have to fix it ...is this a new problem without any changes? ...or has there been some recent changes to the app by you or someone else? ...if new without any changes, I'd approach it as corruption ...if there have been changes, I'd look at all of the record sources on the form and its subs including those for any controls or lookups ...looking to see if they are using the same source. ...and worst case with an intermittent type problem ...consider line numbering your code and re-doing your error codes to feed you the line producing the error ...I've used the mztools add-in to do this. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 12:12 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > Legacy app - redesign is not a practical option - the form is hugely > complex. Hugely. If this is the problem, I'll have to find a > work-around. > > Rocky > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:34 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > ...lol ...redesign the form to have a single data source ...I've seen > this happen when a subform is bound to a different query based on the > same table/query as the main form record source ...if one is dirty, an > update to the other can give you strange feedback depending on your > cb. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:04 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > >> Possible. Work-around? >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> ...sub-query/form hitting the same record as the main? >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Rocky Smolin" >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >>> Dear List: >>> >>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's no >>> Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>> bound form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update >>> instructions in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it >>> happens enough that I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>> >>> I have a feeling the error message is not telling me what the real >>> error is >>> - like the one that says "you cancelled the previous operation" >>> which I didn't but it usually means there's a problem in the SQL >>> that being run. >>> >>> Anyway, anything at this point would be welcome. It's a stumper. >>> >>> >>> >>> MTIA >>> >>> >>> >>> Rocky Smolin >>> >>> Beach Access Software >>> >>> 858-259-4334 >>> >>> www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> www.bchacc.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 9 00:43:04 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 22:43:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit In-Reply-To: References: <99302C49D33E4382901BCE501D5EA604@HAL9005><76C6AC1A184048B79544F4130FCEA1F6@SusanOne><1C0A94145CE54BEAB83CDFE454AF1786@Mattys><25CCDCEBA59745EFA63DED41C365D54C@creativesystemdesigns.com><65308347291A4FB2BB31C8BB04205568@HAL9005><81D94B8EF3844B0880AAF099593FD7DD@Mattys><941BDB920BA3411EB65B2AC6B503AF06@HAL9005> Message-ID: Ah yes there it is. Was looking in the access options. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit ...open the VBE ...then tools/options/general William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rocky Smolin" Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:59 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > That sounds promising. Can't find the switch though. Where do you > set that option (A2K3)? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > I believe you have to set the option to break on all/unhandled errors > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > - > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:15 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit > > >> The error message is not being trapped in a line of code. Ctrl-break >> doesn't drop me into the VBA. And the on error statement only gets >> executed if the file is an mde. >> >> Rocky >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim >> Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 7:04 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Hi Rocky: >> >> Why not turn off the error handling and comment out the 'On Error >> Resume Next' line and then step though the code and see where it bales. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >> Smolin >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:57 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> Error traps are in every module, but it's not hitting any of those. >> >> Resume next only in snips like this: >> >> OutWeGo: >> >> On Error Resume Next >> >> rstMatterAction.Close >> Set rstMatterAction = Nothing >> rstMatterActionPersons.Close >> Set rstMatterActionPersons = Nothing >> >> db.Close >> Set db = Nothing >> >> >> >> Exit_AttyMatter_AfterUpdate: >> Exit Sub >> >> >> Rocky >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike >> Mattys >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:37 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> On Error GoTo (or Resume Next) ? >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> - >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Charlotte Foust" >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 8:17 PM >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or Edit >> >> >>> Any transactions that might be rolled back? >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky >>> Smolin >>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 5:09 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or >>> Edit >>> >>> Oops - wrong about the DAO - there are recordsets being opened and >>> closed. >>> Let me take a look at the .Updates and see if there's a .Update >>> without a .Addnew or .Edit... >>> >>> Ok, Checked - no .Update without am .Edit or .AddNew in line with no >>> possibility of reaching the .Update without executing the .AddNew or >>> .Edit first. No .CancelUpdates. >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan >>> Harkins >>> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 4:20 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update or Cancel Update without Addnew or >>> Edit >>> >>>> I am getting a mysterious message in a client app "Update or Cancel >>>> Update without Addnew or Edit", mysterious because, first there's >>>> no Debug button so I can't see where it's happening, second, it's a >>>> bound >>> >>>> form - no DAO, no recordsets, no Update or Cancel Update >>>> instructions in the code, third, it's not reproducible, but it >>>> happens enough that I've got to figure out what's causing it. >>>> >>> >>> =======Got a Recordset object? >>> >>> Susan >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 9 01:05:38 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 08:05:38 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields Message-ID: Hi A.D. et al Just have in mind that wrapping with Nz - when used in the example SQL code - may not be what you want ... all fields having Null should most often return a Null. /gustav >>> adtp at airtelmail.in 09-06-2009 07:02 >>> Thanks for the clarification Steve! I agree. In fact, during my tests before posting the suggested solution, I did verify safe behavior of Mid() function for Null as well as zero length string. Stuart's suggestion to apply Nz() function over the whole expression would ensure that the result would always be a string. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Schapel To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 14:28 Subject: Re: [AccessD] how to use IIF for six different fields A.D. -------------------------------------------------- > On 8 Jun 2009 at 10:32, A.D.Tejpal wrote: > ... > The expression works even if all the six fields are blank. This is > because Mid() function, acting upon zero length string, returns a zero > length string without generating error, irrespective of the value of > numerical argument. > ==================================== > SELECT T_Data.*, Mid((","+[F1]) & (","+[F2]) & (","+[F3]) & (","+[F4]) & > (","+[F5]) & (","+[F6]),2) AS MergedValue > FROM T_Data; > ==================================== Just to clarify, as the expression in this example would be Null if all 6 fields were. So, in addition to what you stated, we should also say that the Mid() function returns Null, without error, in such a case. -- Regards Steve From robert at servicexp.com Tue Jun 9 19:40:14 2009 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 20:40:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> I have a form/subform that lists open Service Orders. The user picks the service order they want to work with, open another form to perform various tasks. Everything has been working fine for years.. Recently I added some "features", that in part, involved this line of code that fires on the subforms Current event to simply update a unbound text box on the main form (which is also unbound). With Form_frmServicesNavigator ... ... ... ... ... .txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History, "") <<<<< THIS LINE .txtDirections = Nz(Me!Directions, "") .txtComplaints = Nz(Me!CustomerComplaints, "") .txtSysNotes = Nz(Me!SysNotes, "") End with Now on occasion the user gets this error when attempting to update this field (memo field) via a DAO.recordset. "Error 3188 - Could not update; currently locked by another session on this machine..." If I comment this line of code out, all works fine and the error does not show up again. I have tried all manor of variations to reference the main form thinking that may be causing it, but I get the same intermittent results. Any idea's?? WBR Robert From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Jun 9 21:34:07 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 21:34:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 In-Reply-To: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> References: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> Message-ID: Hi Robert, I would suggest that you take this code out of the current event. Put the code into a general Sub procedure and call it. Per Help: 'The Current event occurs when the focus moves to a record, making it the current record, or when the form is refreshed or requeried.' So, if you are changing data in the current event, you might be firing the current event. I used to use the current event a lot, but no more. Another thing is that you are using a dot(.) after Me instead of a bang(!) like in the other lines. Another thing is that IIRC you get into page locking when you update memo fields even if you've set the database to use record locking. This could be the cause of the errors being intermittent about the record being locked. I think that something in your form/subform is bound. If it wasn't then I don't think that the current event can be called, unless it's explicitly called somewhere else in your code. Also - you could try using this syntax: Me.Parent.txtComment = ' ... ' A few various thoughts on my part - good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 7:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 I have a form/subform that lists open Service Orders. The user picks the service order they want to work with, open another form to perform various tasks. Everything has been working fine for years.. Recently I added some "features", that in part, involved this line of code that fires on the subforms Current event to simply update a unbound text box on the main form (which is also unbound). With Form_frmServicesNavigator ... ... ... ... ... .txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History, "") <<<<< THIS LINE .txtDirections = Nz(Me!Directions, "") .txtComplaints = Nz(Me!CustomerComplaints, "") .txtSysNotes = Nz(Me!SysNotes, "") End with Now on occasion the user gets this error when attempting to update this field (memo field) via a DAO.recordset. "Error 3188 - Could not update; currently locked by another session on this machine..." If I comment this line of code out, all works fine and the error does not show up again. I have tried all manor of variations to reference the main form thinking that may be causing it, but I get the same intermittent results. Any idea's?? WBR Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 22:21:29 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:21:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 In-Reply-To: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> References: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> Message-ID: <4a2f26bf.0a1ad00a.2729.ffffba0d@mx.google.com> Hi Robert, I am assuming from what you have written that frmServicesNavigator is also the form that you are calling this from. IOW you are calling the same from from within the OnCurrent of the same form... Just remove the with Form/End With bit. And in the OnCurrent event, replace with with.... Me!txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History, "") <<<<< THIS LINE Me!txtDirections = Nz(Me!Directions, "") Me!txComplaints = Nz(Me!CustomerComplaints, "") Me!.txSysNotes = Nz(Me!SysNotes, "") You were also referring to controls using the DOT as if they were properties or methods, you should use the EXCLAM ! to refer to controls. NOW -If frmServicesNavigator is actually a reference to another form entirely, then I think you would be better referencing with with Dim frm as form Set frm - [Forms]![frmServicesNavigator] With frm !ctrlname !ctrlname2 End with HTH Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: 10 June 2009 01:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 I have a form/subform that lists open Service Orders. The user picks the service order they want to work with, open another form to perform various tasks. Everything has been working fine for years.. Recently I added some "features", that in part, involved this line of code that fires on the subforms Current event to simply update a unbound text box on the main form (which is also unbound). With Form_frmServicesNavigator ... ... ... ... ... .txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History, "") <<<<< THIS LINE .txtDirections = Nz(Me!Directions, "") .txtComplaints = Nz(Me!CustomerComplaints, "") .txtSysNotes = Nz(Me!SysNotes, "") End with Now on occasion the user gets this error when attempting to update this field (memo field) via a DAO.recordset. "Error 3188 - Could not update; currently locked by another session on this machine..." If I comment this line of code out, all works fine and the error does not show up again. I have tried all manor of variations to reference the main form thinking that may be causing it, but I get the same intermittent results. Any idea's?? WBR Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Jun 10 03:29:05 2009 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 04:29:05 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Import Word 2003 doc to A2003 Message-ID: Hi All I have a protected Word doc with 20 or so bookmarks. And in Access I use vba to import the each bookmark contents to a Access table. It works well, but for a small irritation. In the memo field I get a small square at the end of each sentence. I guess its a paragraph marker from Word. Anyone know what causes this and how to remove them? In Access I use the code '!CaseSummary = Doc.formfields("BookmarkName").result' to populate the table TIA johnc From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 10 03:37:54 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:37:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Import Word 2003 doc to A2003 Message-ID: Hi John You are probably receiving a LF or a CR only and not a CR+LF which is a new line in VBA. Try running Replace on the string: Replace(strMemo, vbCr, vbCrLf) or: Replace(strMemo, vbLf, vbCrLf) /gustav >>> Johncliviger at aol.com 10-06-2009 10:29 >>> Hi All I have a protected Word doc with 20 or so bookmarks. And in Access I use vba to import the each bookmark contents to a Access table. It works well, but for a small irritation. In the memo field I get a small square at the end of each sentence. I guess its a paragraph marker from Word. Anyone know what causes this and how to remove them? In Access I use the code '!CaseSummary = Doc.formfields("BookmarkName").result' to populate the table TIA johnc From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 10 06:23:06 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:23:06 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Error loading DLL (CurrentProject.Connection) Message-ID: Hi all I experienced this issue again and googled for a solution - only to find a page on UtterAccess with a link back to the dba archive with this 5 years old solution which I had forgotten all about! Scary indeed: Google and the web to replace your own memory. Shutter. However, that solution won't work on modern machines (WinXP SP3 or Vista) because these by default install a newer version - or rather Service Pack - of MDAC 2.8. Still wishing to reinstall the MDAC - just to be sure and because the MS Component Checker listed some inconsistency in the file versions - I located this page: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/899861 which explains how to repair or reinstall only the MDAC from your install CDs. Of course, if you have SP3 installed, in the guide change the refs to SP2 with SP3. The result? Once again a success! /gustav >>> Gustav Brock 08-08-2004 19:22 >>> Hi all I've now seen this error twice. Both times for code like this: Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open "tblTable", CurrentProject.Connection, adOpenKeyset, adLockOptimistic The compiler stops at the line with rst.Open with the error message in the subject. After much trouble and testing, a reinstall (or update) of the MDAC did it in both cases. No explanation why. You can locate and download this from the Microsoft site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?productID=&freetext=mdac&DisplayLang=en /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 10 09:30:05 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 07:30:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Error loading DLL (CurrentProject.Connection) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9CAE75850E2C40D189878D6BC59E4C59@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks for the tip Gustav. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:23 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Error loading DLL (CurrentProject.Connection) Hi all I experienced this issue again and googled for a solution - only to find a page on UtterAccess with a link back to the dba archive with this 5 years old solution which I had forgotten all about! Scary indeed: Google and the web to replace your own memory. Shutter. However, that solution won't work on modern machines (WinXP SP3 or Vista) because these by default install a newer version - or rather Service Pack - of MDAC 2.8. Still wishing to reinstall the MDAC - just to be sure and because the MS Component Checker listed some inconsistency in the file versions - I located this page: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/899861 which explains how to repair or reinstall only the MDAC from your install CDs. Of course, if you have SP3 installed, in the guide change the refs to SP2 with SP3. The result? Once again a success! /gustav >>> Gustav Brock 08-08-2004 19:22 >>> Hi all I've now seen this error twice. Both times for code like this: Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open "tblTable", CurrentProject.Connection, adOpenKeyset, adLockOptimistic The compiler stops at the line with rst.Open with the error message in the subject. After much trouble and testing, a reinstall (or update) of the MDAC did it in both cases. No explanation why. You can locate and download this from the Microsoft site: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/results.aspx?productID=&freetext=mdac&Dis playLang=en /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Wed Jun 10 09:57:31 2009 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 10:57:31 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Import Word 2003 doc to A2003 Message-ID: Cheers gustav It worked like magic. johnc From robert at servicexp.com Wed Jun 10 16:18:50 2009 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:18:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 In-Reply-To: <4a2f26bf.0a1ad00a.2729.ffffba0d@mx.google.com> References: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> <4a2f26bf.0a1ad00a.2729.ffffba0d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000a01c9ea11$13353ed0$399fbc70$@com> Hello Max, Thanks for responding, My Responses interspersed below.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 >>Hi Robert, >>I am assuming from what you have written that frmServicesNavigator is also >>the form that you are calling this from. IOW you are calling the same from >>from within the OnCurrent of the same form... Not exactly, The code is on the subform (Main Form is frmServicesNavigator /Sub Form is frmServicesNavigatorSub). Specifically on the OnCurrent event of frmServicesNavigatorSub. SNIP CODE >>You were also referring to controls using the DOT as if they were properties >>or methods, you should use the EXCLAM ! to refer to controls. Hmmm, Now you have me thinking.. Why is that wrong? >From Michael Kaplan. 1) The dot gives you early binding and is resolved at compile time, the bang is resolved at runtime. 2) In the case of Forms, both controls and fields in the underlying query can be referenced via a dot since they are all in the type library for the form. 3) Also in the case of Forms, if you change the underlying query at runtime - dot references to the old query's fields will fail at runtime since update of the Form's type library cannot happen at runtime. 4) Because the dot is early bound, IntelliSense happens by default with the dot, not with the bang. 5) The dot (since it is early bound) is faster than the bang, but no one runs enough code that uses these items enough for the performance difference to actually matter. AND http://blogs.msdn.com/frice/archive/2004/02/18/75685.aspx and I have tried both, but it makes no difference, the error still persist. This is so strange, All I want to do (and have done hundreds of times), is copy the text in a bound field that is located on a sub form to a unbound control that is located on the main form (from the sub form).. I have confirmed today that if I comment (.txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History,) out, the error disappears. I just do not understand why I'm getting this error in this case, it doesn't make any sense. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: 10 June 2009 01:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 I have a form/subform that lists open Service Orders. The user picks the service order they want to work with, open another form to perform various tasks. Everything has been working fine for years.. Recently I added some "features", that in part, involved this line of code that fires on the subforms Current event to simply update a unbound text box on the main form (which is also unbound). With Form_frmServicesNavigator ... ... ... ... ... .txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History, "") <<<<< THIS LINE .txtDirections = Nz(Me!Directions, "") .txtComplaints = Nz(Me!CustomerComplaints, "") .txtSysNotes = Nz(Me!SysNotes, "") End with Now on occasion the user gets this error when attempting to update this field (memo field) via a DAO.recordset. "Error 3188 - Could not update; currently locked by another session on this machine..." If I comment this line of code out, all works fine and the error does not show up again. I have tried all manor of variations to reference the main form thinking that may be causing it, but I get the same intermittent results. Any idea's?? WBR Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 16:41:30 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 22:41:30 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 In-Reply-To: <000a01c9ea11$13353ed0$399fbc70$@com> References: <002901c9e964$0600d8d0$12028a70$@com> <4a2f26bf.0a1ad00a.2729.ffffba0d@mx.google.com> <000a01c9ea11$13353ed0$399fbc70$@com> Message-ID: <4a30288d.1818d00a.6c77.08df@mx.google.com> Hi Robert, If your line is Nz(Me.Quick_History,) Should't it be Nz(Me.Quick_History,"") Or whatever you want the null value to return. If nothing, remove the trailing comma Have you tried Me.parent!txtComment = Nz(Me!Quick_History, "") I am assuming the control on the parent form is a text control. If you comment out the error line, do the following lines run ok? Max Ps. I always use dot for properties and ! for controls. I am never confused as to which is which. If "dot references to the old query's fields will fail at runtime" then why use it? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: 10 June 2009 22:19 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 Hello Max, Thanks for responding, My Responses interspersed below.... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 >>Hi Robert, >>I am assuming from what you have written that frmServicesNavigator is also >>the form that you are calling this from. IOW you are calling the same from >>from within the OnCurrent of the same form... Not exactly, The code is on the subform (Main Form is frmServicesNavigator /Sub Form is frmServicesNavigatorSub). Specifically on the OnCurrent event of frmServicesNavigatorSub. SNIP CODE >>You were also referring to controls using the DOT as if they were properties >>or methods, you should use the EXCLAM ! to refer to controls. Hmmm, Now you have me thinking.. Why is that wrong? >From Michael Kaplan. 1) The dot gives you early binding and is resolved at compile time, the bang is resolved at runtime. 2) In the case of Forms, both controls and fields in the underlying query can be referenced via a dot since they are all in the type library for the form. 3) Also in the case of Forms, if you change the underlying query at runtime - dot references to the old query's fields will fail at runtime since update of the Form's type library cannot happen at runtime. 4) Because the dot is early bound, IntelliSense happens by default with the dot, not with the bang. 5) The dot (since it is early bound) is faster than the bang, but no one runs enough code that uses these items enough for the performance difference to actually matter. AND http://blogs.msdn.com/frice/archive/2004/02/18/75685.aspx and I have tried both, but it makes no difference, the error still persist. This is so strange, All I want to do (and have done hundreds of times), is copy the text in a bound field that is located on a sub form to a unbound control that is located on the main form (from the sub form).. I have confirmed today that if I comment (.txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History,) out, the error disappears. I just do not understand why I'm getting this error in this case, it doesn't make any sense. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert Sent: 10 June 2009 01:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Puzzled.... Error 3188 I have a form/subform that lists open Service Orders. The user picks the service order they want to work with, open another form to perform various tasks. Everything has been working fine for years.. Recently I added some "features", that in part, involved this line of code that fires on the subforms Current event to simply update a unbound text box on the main form (which is also unbound). With Form_frmServicesNavigator ... ... ... ... ... .txtComment = Nz(Me.Quick_History, "") <<<<< THIS LINE .txtDirections = Nz(Me!Directions, "") .txtComplaints = Nz(Me!CustomerComplaints, "") .txtSysNotes = Nz(Me!SysNotes, "") End with Now on occasion the user gets this error when attempting to update this field (memo field) via a DAO.recordset. "Error 3188 - Could not update; currently locked by another session on this machine..." If I comment this line of code out, all works fine and the error does not show up again. I have tried all manor of variations to reference the main form thinking that may be causing it, but I get the same intermittent results. Any idea's?? WBR Robert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Wed Jun 10 16:50:07 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:50:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Backup Access data using Volume Shadow Copy? Message-ID: <7c7841600906101450w71305028n4446b01ad28f2de5@mail.gmail.com> Can the Volume Shadow Copy service reliably backup Access MDB data files while they are in use? Or are we still stuck with asserting connection control, kicking everybody off, and then finally backing up? Thanks, -Ken From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 10 17:42:13 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:42:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Backup Access data using Volume Shadow Copy? In-Reply-To: <7c7841600906101450w71305028n4446b01ad28f2de5@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906101450w71305028n4446b01ad28f2de5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2055212AC30F4A07B476DB4F4314CEE4@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have run Volume Shadow Copy Service all the time on live volumes and have never had any damage that I have perceived though when doing a serious backup I like the PC/Server to have been booted from a CD/DVD before creating the definitive image. This method will make a perfect copy including all the boot sectors which wouldn't happen when running live. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:50 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Backup Access data using Volume Shadow Copy? Can the Volume Shadow Copy service reliably backup Access MDB data files while they are in use? Or are we still stuck with asserting connection control, kicking everybody off, and then finally backing up? Thanks, -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 12 09:09:51 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 10:09:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 4 gig dims (relatively) cheap Message-ID: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148287 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148274 And yes I know this is 667 memory but there are times when LOTS of memory is required. The 800 memory is twice the price right now. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 12 10:17:13 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:17:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Google Fusion Tables Message-ID: Hi all Jim posted some interesting links about new software. Here's another which is all about databases or rather tables: http://tables.googlelabs.com/ See the data on a map or as a chart immediately. Columns with locations are interpreted automatically, and you can adjust them directly on a map if necessary. It's an early beta and I don't know of an API for it but form some tasks it could prove quite useful. /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 12 10:37:02 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:37:02 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Google Fusion Tables Message-ID: and here is some background: http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2009/06/google-fusion-tables.html /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 12-06-2009 17:17 >>> Hi all Jim posted some interesting links about new software. Here's another which is all about databases or rather tables: http://tables.googlelabs.com/ See the data on a map or as a chart immediately. Columns with locations are interpreted automatically, and you can adjust them directly on a map if necessary. It's an early beta and I don't know of an API for it but form some tasks it could prove quite useful. /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 12 17:40:38 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:40:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Google Fusion Tables In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This looks really neat. Being able to share or protect organized or disorganized data with anyone on the web or can connect to the web. The system will sort/group data anyway you want and allow it to summarized, modified or retrieved. The only limitations are on how much data the system will allow. 100MB to a dataset and up to a maximum of 250MB... Now if this read GBs instead of MBs it would be ready for primetime. ;-) I guess if the size was too large people would just start using it as data storage. But I will be doing some testing... definitely. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Google Fusion Tables Hi all Jim posted some interesting links about new software. Here's another which is all about databases or rather tables: http://tables.googlelabs.com/ See the data on a map or as a chart immediately. Columns with locations are interpreted automatically, and you can adjust them directly on a map if necessary. It's an early beta and I don't know of an API for it but form some tasks it could prove quite useful. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From erbachs at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 10:17:30 2009 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:17:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 4 gig dims (relatively) cheap In-Reply-To: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <39cb22f30906130817g4da28847m58e68917436c97f2@mail.gmail.com> John, I had to check what my memory was: CPUZ tells me that my 8GB of RAM (2GB PC2-6400 sticks) is 400 MHz. This system is about a year-and-a-half old. Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 9:09 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148287 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148274 > > And yes I know this is 667 memory but there are times when LOTS of memory is required. ?The 800 > memory is twice the price right now. > > -- > John W. Colby From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Jun 13 11:08:53 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 09:08:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Message-ID: <455B519CD41246B9BCF33B99AFF55DD2@HAL9005> Dear List: I need to push dates into an outlook calendar from an access field. Is there a code snip already done on one of the Access sites I could crib? MTIA, Rocky From dw-murphy at cox.net Sat Jun 13 12:19:38 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:19:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar In-Reply-To: <455B519CD41246B9BCF33B99AFF55DD2@HAL9005> References: <455B519CD41246B9BCF33B99AFF55DD2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Check out Helen Fedema's stuff. She has lots of Access to Outlook and Outlook to Access material. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Dear List: I need to push dates into an outlook calendar from an access field. Is there a code snip already done on one of the Access sites I could crib? MTIA, Rocky From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 13 18:52:04 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:52:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 4 gig dims (relatively) cheap In-Reply-To: <39cb22f30906130817g4da28847m58e68917436c97f2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> <39cb22f30906130817g4da28847m58e68917436c97f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A343BA4.3010408@colbyconsulting.com> Steve, This is for 4g dimms. I have 8 gigs in my servers right now but that is (4) sticks of 2 gigs each. I am now going to replace that with (4) sticks of 4 gigs each. I run SQL Server on these machines and I have largish databases, about 180 gig database files, 50 million records, 640 fields wide. I have to do cover indexes on up to 14 or more fields at a time to get my speeds up to snuff. If I can get twice the memory it should help with the processing speed a bit. My next move is to place these databases on a raid of solid state disks, probably a raid (5) using three (to start) of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227395 This is a review of the drive comparing it to other drives, both SSDs as well as normal hard drives. http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60 Perhaps of most interest to me are these three tests which show read/write speeds (I rarely write to my drives except for generating cover indexes) as well as IOPS. Access times: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5 Read / write speeds: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5 IOPS: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=8 My databases are the exception in that they are almost entirely read only. This will provide an advantage in that I will not be wearing out the SSDs writing to them all of the time, and for a database, the scorching read data rates and the truly scorching IOPS rate MIGHT provide truly scorching query processing rates. And to top it off, SSDs to not suffer from the effects of disk fragmentation - reads to any location are equally fast. Basically I set up this "database from hell" which is the very wide table on a raid 6 array of normal hard drives. However I do not USE that database directly. I set up cover indexes, many of which are static, they cover the most common fields that are used over and over from order to order. I then (very occasionally now) have to generate cover indexes for specific sets of fields from that big wide table. If I can set JUST those cover indexes into database files out on a raid 5 array of these SSDs I should get just phenomenal performance. Given disk access times of 100 microseconds, a raid sustained data transfer rate of as much as 500 mbytes / second, and even more if I add more disks to the raid array, and IOPS of many thousands per second, it would SEEM that even large queries should simply fly. Talk about keeping the processor fed... We shall see. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Erbach wrote: > John, > > I had to check what my memory was: CPUZ tells me that my 8GB of RAM > (2GB PC2-6400 sticks) is 400 MHz. This system is about a > year-and-a-half old. > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 13 19:00:06 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 20:00:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Raid for reliability on SSDs Message-ID: <4A343D86.1060303@colbyconsulting.com> I have a very unique situation which I have discussed in other emails. The situation is that I have a SQL Server database where I intend to place just cover indexes (assuming I can do that) into database files out on a RAID of SSDs. The main database tables will continue to reside on a normal raid 6 array. My question is, if I have the original READ-ONLY data tables on a raid 6 array, and I am just building cover indexes into a RAID of SSDs, is it necessary to use a "redundant" array, or can I just go RAID 0 with no redundancy. SSDs are still quite expensive and if I could go with 2 or 3 120g SSDs RAID 0 I would get much better read speed and more volume size than if I used the same number of drives RAID 5. IOW if a drive fails so what? The table used to generate the cover index sits out on a fully protected RAID 6 array. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 13 20:49:23 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 21:49:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Raid for reliability on SSDs References: <4A343D86.1060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: ...mind if I ask wtf is a "cover index"? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:00 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" ; "Dba-Sqlserver" Subject: [AccessD] Raid for reliability on SSDs > I have a very unique situation which I have discussed in other emails. > The situation is that I have > a SQL Server database where I intend to place just cover indexes (assuming > I can do that) into > database files out on a RAID of SSDs. The main database tables will > continue to reside on a normal > raid 6 array. > > My question is, if I have the original READ-ONLY data tables on a raid 6 > array, and I am just > building cover indexes into a RAID of SSDs, is it necessary to use a > "redundant" array, or can I > just go RAID 0 with no redundancy. SSDs are still quite expensive and if > I could go with 2 or 3 > 120g SSDs RAID 0 I would get much better read speed and more volume size > than if I used the same > number of drives RAID 5. IOW if a drive fails so what? The table used to > generate the cover index > sits out on a fully protected RAID 6 array. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 13 21:47:27 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 22:47:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Raid for reliability on SSDs In-Reply-To: References: <4A343D86.1060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A3464BF.5080507@colbyconsulting.com> William, > ...mind if I ask wtf is a "cover index"? Well... I am not anywhere near an expert... but apparently in SQL Server if you build an index that "covers" all of the fields used in a where clause, joins etc for a given query, then the data is pulled directly out of the index itself rather than having to go read each row of the table that the index covers. I am guessing that the same might be true for Access as well though I have never researched it. Let's take an example... I have a real table that is 50 million rows and 640 fields. This is the center of the client's universe. I might write a query (that joins to another query on PK) such as... SELECT PK from tblHSID WHERE (Age = X) AND (Sex = Y) AND (income in (C,D,E,F,G)) AND ((HasDogs = Y) OR (HasCats = Y) You get the idea... So, if I have a single index on Age, Sex, Income, HasDogs and HasCats then the data is already stored in the index and only that index will be used for the where clause. If any field is missing (and for sure if it is not in another index) then SQL Server will have to "Scan" through all 50 million records looking for the data in the actual fields of the table to get the data to perform the where. As you might imagine, scanning through 50 million records with 640 columns is "not only slow, but DAMNED SLOW". So I set up "cover indexes" for all of the major fields that are in every order. For example the age, sex, income kind of stuff plus the PKID might be in one "cover index". Then I set up other cover indexes over "sets" of fields. For example the client often does orders for arthritis, and there are about 10 fields that ORed together indicate someone that might have arthritis. So I "cover" all of those fields plus the PKID. Thus an order like that might use TWO "cover" indexes, one for the age/sex/income and a second for the arthritis fields, joining on the PKID. The intent is to allow SQL Server to find all of the data in two indexes instead of scanning 50 million records. I am addressing this response to the SQL Server group as well so that anyone over there who might know more, or be able to explain it better, or even tell me I am out of luck that it doesn't work that way can speak up. I can tell you that before I discovered this my queries were taking a half hour to run. After discovering the cover indexes and using them, my times dropped to a minute or two or three or five so it does in fact appear to work that way. So the point NOW... is to place just those indexes in separate files out on a raid of SSDs. MAYBE I will get results down to a 10/20/30 seconds? When you are dealing with the table sizes that I am, and the number of steps to do the stuff that I am, every minute counts. I can't tell you the number of times I start a query and just twiddle my thumbs for 2 or 3 or 5 minutes waiting for the results. Not enough time to switch gears to something else but a huge waste of time none the less. I am going to try splitting the indexes out and placing them on a RAID 1 array on a pair of normal 500g hard drives. This will likely slow me down a tad, or even a lot, since a RAID 6 with 6 drives (where they are now) streams data much faster than a raid 1 will. However I will have figured out how to split the indexes out, and have them in separate files when I finally get the SSDs. Furthermore I do have extra 500g drives hanging around I can add to the array if I need to get the streaming speed up temporarily until I get the SSDs. I am willing to bet a fairly large chunk of money that the indexes on a raid SSD will be smokin' fast. In fact I will likely drop them on their own controller to give them their own coprocessor and their own path to the CPU. If this works my speeds will be in the big leagues. Or at least bigger leagues. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > ...mind if I ask wtf is a "cover index"? > > William From fhtapia at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 21:50:30 2009 From: fhtapia at gmail.com (Francisco Tapia) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 19:50:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] Raid for reliability on SSDs In-Reply-To: References: <4A343D86.1060303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: An index that contains the columns of the most common queries. On 6/13/09, William Hindman wrote: > ...mind if I ask wtf is a "cover index"? > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:00 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > ; "Dba-Sqlserver" > > Subject: [AccessD] Raid for reliability on SSDs > >> I have a very unique situation which I have discussed in other emails. >> The situation is that I have >> a SQL Server database where I intend to place just cover indexes (assuming >> >> I can do that) into >> database files out on a RAID of SSDs. The main database tables will >> continue to reside on a normal >> raid 6 array. >> >> My question is, if I have the original READ-ONLY data tables on a raid 6 >> array, and I am just >> building cover indexes into a RAID of SSDs, is it necessary to use a >> "redundant" array, or can I >> just go RAID 0 with no redundancy. SSDs are still quite expensive and if >> I could go with 2 or 3 >> 120g SSDs RAID 0 I would get much better read speed and more volume size >> than if I used the same >> number of drives RAID 5. IOW if a drive fails so what? The table used to >> >> generate the cover index >> sits out on a fully protected RAID 6 array. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com -Francisco http://sqlthis.blogspot.com | Tsql and More... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 13 22:25:52 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 23:25:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SSD on raid Message-ID: <4A346DC0.2080303@colbyconsulting.com> Here is the counterpart to the test results I posted before, this shows RAID 0 using the Intel raid controller on the motherboard. It would be interesting to see what a hardware raid controller would add to the results. http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=318&Itemid=60 All in all RAID 0 does what you would expect, increases bandwidth / streaming read/write speeds.As soon as I get reimbursed for the hardware I have already bought, I will likely go do this with two or possibly even three of these drives. To satisfy my own curiosity I am going to try some real world tests using SQL Server, with the indexes on RAID 0 hard disk and the indexes on RAID 0 SSDs. I have big enough data sets to clearly define relative speeds. I will keep you posted. And... I still need knowledgeable responses to whether using RAID 0 is an OK thing to do for just the SQL Server index files used as I have described. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 05:05:09 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 06:05:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] EATBLOAT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0906140305n649ffc98k18fce8a29e3a6165@mail.gmail.com> Has anyone tried using EatBloat with Access 2007? Obviously some of the references will have to change, but anything else you know of? TIA, Arthur From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Jun 14 10:28:16 2009 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:28:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 4 gig dims (relatively) cheap In-Reply-To: <4A343BA4.3010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> <39cb22f30906130817g4da28847m58e68917436c97f2@mail.gmail.com> <4A343BA4.3010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002201c9ed04$bda94910$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Re: "and I have largish databases, about 180 gig database files, 50 million records, " John - what on earth are you tracking....your entire town's phone records or what ? From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Jun 14 10:44:18 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:44:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar In-Reply-To: References: <455B519CD41246B9BCF33B99AFF55DD2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Well, Helen didn't have it. But I found this: http://communityclips.officelabs.com/Video.aspx?videoId=5cd9b1ca-987b-46e3-8 b1b-100d3bd0e998 A video on how to do exactly what I wanted - add an appointment to the Outlook calendar - and the companion site where you can get the code: http://gainingaccess.net/GainingAccess/CodeDownloads/AppointmentToOutlook.tx t This GainingAccess.net site has some other useful stuff. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Check out Helen Fedema's stuff. She has lots of Access to Outlook and Outlook to Access material. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Dear List: I need to push dates into an outlook calendar from an access field. Is there a code snip already done on one of the Access sites I could crib? MTIA, Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jun 14 11:34:34 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 09:34:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar In-Reply-To: References: <455B519CD41246B9BCF33B99AFF55DD2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <8EB6EA0B1D5B4D9786C7978C99E8F16D@creativesystemdesigns.com> That looks about as perfect as you can get... Full code and a visual explaination. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Well, Helen didn't have it. But I found this: http://communityclips.officelabs.com/Video.aspx?videoId=5cd9b1ca-987b-46e3-8 b1b-100d3bd0e998 A video on how to do exactly what I wanted - add an appointment to the Outlook calendar - and the companion site where you can get the code: http://gainingaccess.net/GainingAccess/CodeDownloads/AppointmentToOutlook.tx t This GainingAccess.net site has some other useful stuff. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Check out Helen Fedema's stuff. She has lots of Access to Outlook and Outlook to Access material. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 9:09 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Dear List: I need to push dates into an outlook calendar from an access field. Is there a code snip already done on one of the Access sites I could crib? MTIA, Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 15 08:34:10 2009 From: cjlabs at worldnet.att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:34:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com> <4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com> <4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell> Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are installed. I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it started crashing. On WindowsXP. Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? Thanks Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 15 08:46:46 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 06:46:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing In-Reply-To: <61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell> References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com> <4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com><4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com> <61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell> Message-ID: <50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005> The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are installed. I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it started crashing. On WindowsXP. Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? Thanks Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 15 08:53:52 2009 From: cjlabs at worldnet.att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:53:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com> <4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com><4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com><61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell> <50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are installed. I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it started crashing. On WindowsXP. Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? Thanks Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 09:06:33 2009 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:06:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing In-Reply-To: <9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com> <4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com> <4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com> <61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell> <50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005> <9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> Message-ID: This link is about a slightly different version - XP but it sounds like similar problem. Might be worth looking at. http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1094429.php The third post down has the solution that the original poster came to use..He attributed the problem to JET which maybe wouldn't have been reinstalled if you did a re-install if it thought it was already there. Here's the solution as posted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Any way, if anyone else runs into this problem, let me tell you how I resolved the issue. I ran into a problem running another program and was able to get real useable information about that error. Realized the issue was with msjet40.dll. I tried using the file in the MS KB to upgrade the file, and it wouldn't work since I had installed XP SP 2. I decided to reinstall XP SP 2 and it reinstalled msjet40.dll. Now I can open files in access and in the other program." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ GK On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. ? When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. > > Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). > > > Carolyn > > > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Rocky Smolin > ?To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > ?Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM > ?Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > ?The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you > ?need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in > ?your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. ?Plus the updates. ?Big PITA. ?I'm not > ?sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you > ?to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created > ?some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? > > ?Rocky > > > ?-----Original Message----- > ?From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > ?[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson > ?Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > ?To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > ?Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > ?Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create > ?a blank database. ? I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but > ?it still crashes. ? If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the > ?database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for > ?Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" ?window. > > ?All my other Office 2000 programs are working. ? All the updates are > ?installed. > > ?I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for > ?years. ? I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. ?I > ?work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's > ?been working fine. ? I literally came back an hour after using it and it > ?started crashing. > > ?On WindowsXP. > > > ?Anyone seen this? ? Any suggestions? > > > ?Thanks > ?Carolyn Johnson > ?St Louis, MO > ?-- > ?AccessD mailing list > ?AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > ?http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > ?Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ?-- > ?AccessD mailing list > ?AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > ?http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > ?Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From cjlabs at worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 15 09:15:13 2009 From: cjlabs at worldnet.att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:15:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com><4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com><4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com><61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell><50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005><9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> Message-ID: Thanks. I'll give it a try. Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Kjos To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing This link is about a slightly different version - XP but it sounds like similar problem. Might be worth looking at. http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1094429.php The third post down has the solution that the original poster came to use..He attributed the problem to JET which maybe wouldn't have been reinstalled if you did a re-install if it thought it was already there. Here's the solution as posted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Any way, if anyone else runs into this problem, let me tell you how I resolved the issue. I ran into a problem running another program and was able to get real useable information about that error. Realized the issue was with msjet40.dll. I tried using the file in the MS KB to upgrade the file, and it wouldn't work since I had installed XP SP 2. I decided to reinstall XP SP 2 and it reinstalled msjet40.dll. Now I can open files in access and in the other program." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ GK On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. > > Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). > > > Carolyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you > need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in > your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not > sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you > to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created > some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create > a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but > it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the > database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for > Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. > > All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are > installed. > > I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for > years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I > work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's > been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it > started crashing. > > On WindowsXP. > > > Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? > > > Thanks > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis, MO > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 15 09:30:54 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:30:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing Message-ID: Hi Carolyn If JET should be the issue, look up my posting from 2009-06-10: Error loading DLL (CurrentProject.Connection) on how to reinstall JET only on WinXP SP2 or SP3. /gustav >>> garykjos at gmail.com 15-06-2009 16:06 >>> This link is about a slightly different version - XP but it sounds like similar problem. Might be worth looking at. http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1094429.php The third post down has the solution that the original poster came to use..He attributed the problem to JET which maybe wouldn't have been reinstalled if you did a re-install if it thought it was already there. Here's the solution as posted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Any way, if anyone else runs into this problem, let me tell you how I resolved the issue. I ran into a problem running another program and was able to get real useable information about that error. Realized the issue was with msjet40.dll. I tried using the file in the MS KB to upgrade the file, and it wouldn't work since I had installed XP SP 2. I decided to reinstall XP SP 2 and it reinstalled msjet40.dll. Now I can open files in access and in the other program." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ GK On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. > > Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). > > > Carolyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you > need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in > your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not > sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you > to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created > some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create > a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but > it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the > database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for > Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. > > All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are > installed. > > I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for > years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I > work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's > been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it > started crashing. > > On WindowsXP. > > > Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? > > > Thanks > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis, MO From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 15 13:26:50 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:26:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Finding Another Outlook Calendar Message-ID: Dear List: I have some code now that will add an appointment to the Outlook calendar. Works well. But it's posting to my (default) calendar. The client has a shared calendar for these appointments. Does anyone know the VBA for opening a personal or shared Outlook calendar? MTIA Rocky From erbachs at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 15:08:21 2009 From: erbachs at gmail.com (Steve Erbach) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:08:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 4 gig dims (relatively) cheap In-Reply-To: <4A343BA4.3010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> <39cb22f30906130817g4da28847m58e68917436c97f2@mail.gmail.com> <4A343BA4.3010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <39cb22f30906151308k43b4602m495f5f3f26bcf590@mail.gmail.com> John, Is that your "database from hell"? My sympathies! Steve Erbach Neenah, WI On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 6:52 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Steve, > > This is for 4g dimms. ?I have 8 gigs in my servers right now but that is (4) sticks of 2 gigs each. > ?I am now going to replace that with (4) sticks of 4 gigs each. > > I run SQL Server on these machines and I have largish databases, about 180 gig database files, 50 > million records, 640 fields wide. ?I have to do cover indexes on up to 14 or more fields at a time > to get my speeds up to snuff. ?If I can get twice the memory it should help with the processing > speed a bit. > > My next move is to place these databases on a raid of solid state disks, probably a raid (5) using > three (to start) of these: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227395 > > This is a review of the drive comparing it to other drives, both SSDs as well as normal hard drives. > > http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60 > > Perhaps of most interest to me are these three tests which show read/write speeds (I rarely write to > my drives except for generating cover indexes) as well as IOPS. > > Access times: > > http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5 > > Read / write speeds: > > http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5 > > IOPS: > > http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=8 > > My databases are the exception in that they are almost entirely read only. ?This will provide an > advantage in that I will not be wearing out the SSDs writing to them all of the time, and for a > database, the scorching read data rates and the truly scorching IOPS rate MIGHT provide truly > scorching query processing rates. ?And to top it off, SSDs to not suffer from the effects of disk > fragmentation - reads to any location are equally fast. > > Basically I set up this "database from hell" which is the very wide table on a raid 6 array of > normal hard drives. ?However I do not USE that database directly. ?I set up cover indexes, many of > which are static, they cover the most common fields that are used over and over from order to order. > ?I then (very occasionally now) have to generate cover indexes for specific sets of fields from > that big wide table. > > If I can set JUST those cover indexes into database files out on a raid 5 array of these SSDs I > should get just phenomenal performance. ?Given disk access times of 100 microseconds, a raid > sustained data transfer rate of as much as 500 mbytes / second, and even more if I add more disks to > the raid array, ?and IOPS of many thousands per second, it would SEEM that even large queries should > simply fly. ?Talk about keeping the processor fed... > > We shall see. > > > John W. Colby From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 16:03:33 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:03:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Who had the Update error? Message-ID: <1649D31D65744200BA786E8EF8D5088D@SusanOne> It just occurred to me, that an update can't take place if the record is corrupt -- if you still haven't isolated the problem, you might try to isolate for a corrupt record. Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 15 16:32:20 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:32:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] This just in... Message-ID: <4A36BDE4.6090506@colbyconsulting.com> I just found this: It is highly recommended that all partitions are configured by using the DISKPAR (Windows 2000) or DISKPART (Windows 2003) commands. When using DISKPAR, adjust the alignment by 512 bytes, and when using DISKPART, the disk should be aligned to 64. The reason for this is due to the original master boot record design of WinTel based systems. The master boot record for all drives is 63 blocks (1 block = 512 bytes). The physical disks want to read and write data in 64 block chunks. Because the master boot record is only 63 blocks, this puts the first block of actual data in block location 64, where it should be in block location 65. That forces the disk to read 128 blocks for each 64 blocks read to the disk, thereby increasing the work needed to be done and decreasing performance. It is so highly recommended that volumes be created with this 64 block offset that Microsoft is including this procedure as the standard when creating partitions starting in Microsoft Windows 2008 Server. There are no published figures on what sort of performance improvement will be seen by creating your disks using this method. It's because any numbers would be relevant to only the system they were taken against, as all databases are different. Unfortunately, once a partition has been created without the alignment offset, there is no easy way to change the offset. The only method for doing that is to create a new volume and partition with the offset, take down the SQL Server and manually migrate the files to the new drive in an offline manor. here: http://searchsqlserver.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid87_gci1262122_mem1,00.html -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 15 16:32:32 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:32:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 4 gig dims (relatively) cheap In-Reply-To: <39cb22f30906151308k43b4602m495f5f3f26bcf590@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A3261AF.4000402@colbyconsulting.com> <39cb22f30906130817g4da28847m58e68917436c97f2@mail.gmail.com> <4A343BA4.3010408@colbyconsulting.com> <39cb22f30906151308k43b4602m495f5f3f26bcf590@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A36BDF0.7070105@colbyconsulting.com> > Is that your "database from hell"? My sympathies! ROTFL. With the proper hardware and the proper knowledge (my biggest problem) it is manageable. I got the 4 gig dimms today, installed and in use. 16 gigs RAM on each server. I use virtual machines to run an address validation process. In the past because of the limited amount of ram I had I would lower the amount of RAM that SQL Server could have from 7 to 4 gigs when I needed to run the VM. Now I can just leave the memory available for the VM and permanently assign about 12 gigs for SQL Server. I am working on this stuff now. I really need to be logging all kinds of stuff including the time /date and time it takes to perform each stored procedure. If I can get that logging happening then I can start to analyze the impact of hardware changes. I have orders which I can use as a test bed for how long each step takes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Erbach wrote: > John, > > Is that your "database from hell"? My sympathies! > > Steve Erbach > Neenah, WI > > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 6:52 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> Steve, >> >> This is for 4g dimms. I have 8 gigs in my servers right now but that is (4) sticks of 2 gigs each. >> I am now going to replace that with (4) sticks of 4 gigs each. >> >> I run SQL Server on these machines and I have largish databases, about 180 gig database files, 50 >> million records, 640 fields wide. I have to do cover indexes on up to 14 or more fields at a time >> to get my speeds up to snuff. If I can get twice the memory it should help with the processing >> speed a bit. >> >> My next move is to place these databases on a raid of solid state disks, probably a raid (5) using >> three (to start) of these: >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227395 >> >> This is a review of the drive comparing it to other drives, both SSDs as well as normal hard drives. >> >> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60 >> >> Perhaps of most interest to me are these three tests which show read/write speeds (I rarely write to >> my drives except for generating cover indexes) as well as IOPS. >> >> Access times: >> >> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5 >> >> Read / write speeds: >> >> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=5 >> >> IOPS: >> >> http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=299&Itemid=60&limit=1&limitstart=8 >> >> My databases are the exception in that they are almost entirely read only. This will provide an >> advantage in that I will not be wearing out the SSDs writing to them all of the time, and for a >> database, the scorching read data rates and the truly scorching IOPS rate MIGHT provide truly >> scorching query processing rates. And to top it off, SSDs to not suffer from the effects of disk >> fragmentation - reads to any location are equally fast. >> >> Basically I set up this "database from hell" which is the very wide table on a raid 6 array of >> normal hard drives. However I do not USE that database directly. I set up cover indexes, many of >> which are static, they cover the most common fields that are used over and over from order to order. >> I then (very occasionally now) have to generate cover indexes for specific sets of fields from >> that big wide table. >> >> If I can set JUST those cover indexes into database files out on a raid 5 array of these SSDs I >> should get just phenomenal performance. Given disk access times of 100 microseconds, a raid >> sustained data transfer rate of as much as 500 mbytes / second, and even more if I add more disks to >> the raid array, and IOPS of many thousands per second, it would SEEM that even large queries should >> simply fly. Talk about keeping the processor fed... >> >> We shall see. >> >> >> John W. Colby > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 15 20:49:28 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:49:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] This just in... In-Reply-To: <4A36BDE4.6090506@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A36BDE4.6090506@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <813C9D366042415DB1AF3572D4AA3BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: That is an excellent piece of information. If there is some way to qualify the performance gains and they show positive results, that would definitely be the way to go. Good research John. I will see if I can find out some more info on this. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] This just in... I just found this: It is highly recommended that all partitions are configured by using the DISKPAR (Windows 2000) or DISKPART (Windows 2003) commands. When using DISKPAR, adjust the alignment by 512 bytes, and when using DISKPART, the disk should be aligned to 64. The reason for this is due to the original master boot record design of WinTel based systems. The master boot record for all drives is 63 blocks (1 block = 512 bytes). The physical disks want to read and write data in 64 block chunks. Because the master boot record is only 63 blocks, this puts the first block of actual data in block location 64, where it should be in block location 65. That forces the disk to read 128 blocks for each 64 blocks read to the disk, thereby increasing the work needed to be done and decreasing performance. It is so highly recommended that volumes be created with this 64 block offset that Microsoft is including this procedure as the standard when creating partitions starting in Microsoft Windows 2008 Server. There are no published figures on what sort of performance improvement will be seen by creating your disks using this method. It's because any numbers would be relevant to only the system they were taken against, as all databases are different. Unfortunately, once a partition has been created without the alignment offset, there is no easy way to change the offset. The only method for doing that is to create a new volume and partition with the offset, take down the SQL Server and manually migrate the files to the new drive in an offline manor. here: http://searchsqlserver.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid87_gci1262122_mem1,00. html -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 15 21:57:27 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:57:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: This just in... In-Reply-To: <813C9D366042415DB1AF3572D4AA3BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A36BDE4.6090506@colbyconsulting.com> <813C9D366042415DB1AF3572D4AA3BD5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A370A17.1020405@colbyconsulting.com> Hmmm... Notice in the following that this only helps if the disk is translated as 64 sectors / track. It is unclear how to determine that. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa995867.aspx https://www.equallogic.com/uploadedFiles/Resources/Tech_Reports/tr-ms-sector-align_TR1012_v2-0.pdf John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > That is an excellent piece of information. If there is some way to qualify > the performance gains and they show positive results, that would definitely > be the way to go. > > Good research John. I will see if I can find out some more info on this. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:32 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] This just in... > > I just found this: > > It is highly recommended that all partitions are configured by using the > DISKPAR (Windows 2000) or > DISKPART (Windows 2003) commands. When using DISKPAR, adjust the alignment > by 512 bytes, and when > using DISKPART, the disk should be aligned to 64. The reason for this is due > to the original master > boot record design of WinTel based systems. The master boot record for all > drives is 63 blocks (1 > block = 512 bytes). > > The physical disks want to read and write data in 64 block chunks. Because > the master boot record is > only 63 blocks, this puts the first block of actual data in block location > 64, where it should be in > block location 65. That forces the disk to read 128 blocks for each 64 > blocks read to the disk, > thereby increasing the work needed to be done and decreasing performance. > > It is so highly recommended that volumes be created with this 64 block > offset that Microsoft is > including this procedure as the standard when creating partitions starting > in Microsoft Windows 2008 > Server. There are no published figures on what sort of performance > improvement will be seen by > creating your disks using this method. It's because any numbers would be > relevant to only the system > they were taken against, as all databases are different. Unfortunately, once > a partition has been > created without the alignment offset, there is no easy way to change the > offset. The only method for > doing that is to create a new volume and partition with the offset, take > down the SQL Server and > manually migrate the files to the new drive in an offline manor. > > here: > > http://searchsqlserver.techtarget.com/tip/0,289483,sid87_gci1262122_mem1,00. > html > From Johncliviger at aol.com Tue Jun 16 03:41:16 2009 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 04:41:16 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Message-ID: Hi rocky Is this any use? johnc '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Procedure : btnAddApptToOutlook_Click ' DateTime : 8/4/2008 ' Author : Patrick Wood _http://gainingaccess.net_ (http://gainingaccess.net) ' Purpose : Add a Custom Access Appointment Record to the Outlook Calendar ' Arguments : None ' : You are welcome to use this code if you give ' : us credit by leaving this header intact. '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Private Sub btnAddApptToOutlook_Click() On Error GoTo Err_btnAddApptToOutlook_Click ' Save the Current Record If Me.Dirty Then Me.Dirty = False End If ' Exit the procedure if appointment has been added to Outlook. If Me.chkAddedToOutlook = True Then MsgBox "This appointment has already added to Microsoft Outlook.", vbCritical Exit Sub Else ' Add a new appointment. ' Use late binding to avoid the "Reference" issue Dim olApp As Object 'Outlook.Application Dim olAppt As Object 'olAppointmentItem ' This is how we would do it if we were using "early binding": ' Dim outobj As Outlook.Application ' Dim outappt As Outlook.AppointmentItem ' Set outobj = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") ' Set outappt = outobj.CreateItem(olAppointmentItem) If isAppThere("Outlook.Application") = False Then ' Outlook is not open, create a new instance Set olApp = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") Else ' Outlook is already open--use this method Set olApp = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") End If ' Create the New Appointment Item Set olAppt = olApp.CreateItem(1) ' olAppointmentItem = 1 ' Add the Form data to the Appointment Properties With olAppt ' If There is no Start Date or Time on ' the Form use Nz to avoid an error ' Set the Start Property Value .Start = Nz(Me.txtStartDate, "") & " " & Nz(Me.txtStartTime, "") ' Set the End Property Value .End = Nz(Me.txtEndDate, "") & " " & Nz(Me.txtEndTime, "") .Duration = Nz(Me.txtApptLength, 0) ' vbNullString uses a little less memory than "" .Subject = Nz(Me.cboApptDescription, vbNullString) .Body = Nz(Me.txtApptNotes, vbNullString) .Location = Nz(Me.txtLocation, vbNullString) If Me.chkApptReminder = True Then If IsNull(Me.txtReminderMinutes) Then Me.txtReminderMinutes.Value = 30 End If .ReminderOverrideDefault = True .ReminderMinutesBeforeStart = Me.txtReminderMinutes .ReminderSet = True End If ' Save the Appointment Item Properties .Save End With End If ' Release the Outlook object variables. Set olAppt = Nothing Set olApp = Nothing ' Set chkAddedToOutlook to checked Me.chkAddedToOutlook = True ' Save the Current Record because we checked chkAddedToOutlook If Me.Dirty Then Me.Dirty = False End If ' Inform the user MsgBox "Appointment Added!", vbInformation End Sub '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Procedure : isAppThere ' Author : Rick Dobson, Ph.D - Programming Microsoft Access 2000 ' Purpose : To check if an Application is Open ' Arguments : appName The name of the Application ' Example : isAppThere("Outlook.Application") '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Function isAppThere(appName) As Boolean On Error Resume Next Dim objApp As Object isAppThere = True Set objApp = GetObject(, appName) If Err.Number <> 0 Then isAppThere = False End Function From mshahid at pbad.sbg.com.sa Tue Jun 16 04:11:52 2009 From: mshahid at pbad.sbg.com.sa (Mohammed Shahid Shahid Khan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:11:52 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Need Advise References: Message-ID: <8866C325F3A2F6408F8FA193B936C0DD02170C80@PBAD-MAIL01.pbad.sbg.com.sa> Dear All, I want to open a pdf file on button click but I have secured the pbf file with password to open, how can I open it without writing the password, I want to write password in code itself which will directly open the pdf on button click. Rgds, Mohammed Shahid From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 16 04:38:00 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:38:00 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Need Advise In-Reply-To: <8866C325F3A2F6408F8FA193B936C0DD02170C80@PBAD-MAIL01.pbad.sbg.com.sa> References: , <8866C325F3A2F6408F8FA193B936C0DD02170C80@PBAD-MAIL01.pbad.sbg.com.sa> Message-ID: <4A3767F8.8568.F33E954@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It depends on what you are using as your default PDF reader and whether it can accept the password as a commandline option. On 16 Jun 2009 at 12:11, Mohammed Shahid Shahid Khan wrote: > Dear All, > > I want to open a pdf file on button click but I have secured the pbf > file with password to open, how can I open it without writing the > password, I want to write password in code itself which will directly > open the pdf on button click. > > > Rgds, > Mohammed Shahid > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 16 07:51:38 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 05:51:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9AFDEEE580834A45B8F91B360ED32F68@HAL9005> John: That was actually the site I cribbed the code from. What I can't figure out is how to point to a different Outlook calendar. In this code I think the calendar that's pointed to is the one in the default Outlook by: Set olApp = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") Thanks and regards, Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Hi rocky Is this any use? johnc '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Procedure : btnAddApptToOutlook_Click ' DateTime : 8/4/2008 ' Author : Patrick Wood _http://gainingaccess.net_ (http://gainingaccess.net) ' Purpose : Add a Custom Access Appointment Record to the Outlook Calendar ' Arguments : None ' : You are welcome to use this code if you give ' : us credit by leaving this header intact. '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Private Sub btnAddApptToOutlook_Click() On Error GoTo Err_btnAddApptToOutlook_Click ' Save the Current Record If Me.Dirty Then Me.Dirty = False End If ' Exit the procedure if appointment has been added to Outlook. If Me.chkAddedToOutlook = True Then MsgBox "This appointment has already added to Microsoft Outlook.", vbCritical Exit Sub Else ' Add a new appointment. ' Use late binding to avoid the "Reference" issue Dim olApp As Object 'Outlook.Application Dim olAppt As Object 'olAppointmentItem ' This is how we would do it if we were using "early binding": ' Dim outobj As Outlook.Application ' Dim outappt As Outlook.AppointmentItem ' Set outobj = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") ' Set outappt = outobj.CreateItem(olAppointmentItem) If isAppThere("Outlook.Application") = False Then ' Outlook is not open, create a new instance Set olApp = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") Else ' Outlook is already open--use this method Set olApp = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") End If ' Create the New Appointment Item Set olAppt = olApp.CreateItem(1) ' olAppointmentItem = 1 ' Add the Form data to the Appointment Properties With olAppt ' If There is no Start Date or Time on ' the Form use Nz to avoid an error ' Set the Start Property Value .Start = Nz(Me.txtStartDate, "") & " " & Nz(Me.txtStartTime, "") ' Set the End Property Value .End = Nz(Me.txtEndDate, "") & " " & Nz(Me.txtEndTime, "") .Duration = Nz(Me.txtApptLength, 0) ' vbNullString uses a little less memory than "" .Subject = Nz(Me.cboApptDescription, vbNullString) .Body = Nz(Me.txtApptNotes, vbNullString) .Location = Nz(Me.txtLocation, vbNullString) If Me.chkApptReminder = True Then If IsNull(Me.txtReminderMinutes) Then Me.txtReminderMinutes.Value = 30 End If .ReminderOverrideDefault = True .ReminderMinutesBeforeStart = Me.txtReminderMinutes .ReminderSet = True End If ' Save the Appointment Item Properties .Save End With End If ' Release the Outlook object variables. Set olAppt = Nothing Set olApp = Nothing ' Set chkAddedToOutlook to checked Me.chkAddedToOutlook = True ' Save the Current Record because we checked chkAddedToOutlook If Me.Dirty Then Me.Dirty = False End If ' Inform the user MsgBox "Appointment Added!", vbInformation End Sub '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Procedure : isAppThere ' Author : Rick Dobson, Ph.D - Programming Microsoft Access 2000 ' Purpose : To check if an Application is Open ' Arguments : appName The name of the Application ' Example : isAppThere("Outlook.Application") '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Function isAppThere(appName) As Boolean On Error Resume Next Dim objApp As Object isAppThere = True Set objApp = GetObject(, appName) If Err.Number <> 0 Then isAppThere = False End Function -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 09:58:59 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:58:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar References: <9AFDEEE580834A45B8F91B360ED32F68@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, have you tried Outlook's Object Browser? I'm not quite sure what you're having trouble with -- finding the right hierarchy syntax to reference a custom calendar? > John: > > That was actually the site I cribbed the code from. What I can't figure > out > is how to point to a different Outlook calendar. In this code I think the > calendar that's pointed to is the one in the default Outlook by: > > Set olApp = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 16 10:22:31 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:22:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar In-Reply-To: References: <9AFDEEE580834A45B8F91B360ED32F68@HAL9005> Message-ID: <6BCBAAA4DDFB42419431F12AF729AC17@HAL9005> "finding the right hierarchy syntax to reference a custom calendar?" Exactly. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 7:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to Outlook Calendar Rocky, have you tried Outlook's Object Browser? I'm not quite sure what you're having trouble with -- finding the right hierarchy syntax to reference a custom calendar? > John: > > That was actually the site I cribbed the code from. What I can't > figure out is how to point to a different Outlook calendar. In this > code I think the calendar that's pointed to is the one in the default > Outlook by: > > Set olApp = CreateObject("Outlook.Application") > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Tue Jun 16 12:10:00 2009 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:10:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund In-Reply-To: <05bf01c9ee8b$3f2935e0$bd7ba1a0$@net> References: <05bf01c9ee8b$3f2935e0$bd7ba1a0$@net> Message-ID: "We're a family." Members often share that sentiment in their posts. The Database Advisor group is a family. It's obvious in our responses and brief explosions of humor that we care about one another. Dickford Cohn, a member of our family has suffered a great loss. Due to a fire, this member has lost his home and all of his belongings. He recently spent a number of weeks in the hospital, recovering from serious burns. You can read more about his horrific encounter with death in the online article, Hawker dragged from trailer fire. Keys News The DBA Board of Directors recently voted to accept donations from members on Dickford's behalf. The DBA organization will keep nothing for administrative purposes -- we will forward every cent donated to Dickford. >From the time of this message until July 31, 2009, every donation received will go to Dickford Cohn. Make your donation via our existing PayPal account link. If you prefer snail mail, please send donation to the following address: Database Advisors, Inc. 814 Peppard Drive Bel Air, MD 21014 Please make your check or money order payable to Database Advisors, Inc. As always, donations of any kind are not mandatory for membership. John R. Bartow President Database Advisors, Inc. Email: president at databaseadvisors.com From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Tue Jun 16 12:23:45 2009 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:23:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund In-Reply-To: References: <05bf01c9ee8b$3f2935e0$bd7ba1a0$@net> Message-ID: RESEND with Links this time. Bryan "We're a family." Members often share that sentiment in their posts. The Database Advisor group is a family. It's obvious in our responses and brief explosions of humor that we care about one another. Dickford Cohn, a member of our family has suffered a great loss. Due to a fire, this member has lost his home and all of his belongings. He recently spent a number of weeks in the hospital, recovering from serious burns. You can read more about his horrific encounter with death in the online article, Hawker dragged from trailer fire. Keys News ( http://keysnews.com/node/13470 ) The DBA Board of Directors recently voted to accept donations from members on Dickford's behalf. The DBA organization will keep nothing for administrative purposes -- we will forward every cent donated to Dickford. >From the time of this message until July 31, 2009, every donation received will go to Dickford Cohn. Make your donation via our existing PayPal account link ( http://www.databaseadvisors.com/donations/dickford.asp ). If you prefer snail mail, please send donation to the following address: Database Advisors, Inc. 814 Peppard Drive Bel Air, MD 21014 Please make your check or money order payable to Database Advisors, Inc. As always, donations of any kind are not mandatory for membership. John R. Bartow President Database Advisors, Inc. Email: president at databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 16 14:23:27 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:23:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund References: <05bf01c9ee8b$3f2935e0$bd7ba1a0$@net> Message-ID: <52C3F3168F1D4BD495A09F02A0178D22@jislaptopdev> ...a couple of personal comments ...I visited dickford twice in the trauma center at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami ...the burns were/are extensive, deep, and scarring ...the doctors had to replace muscle and tissue in some places that were all the way to the bone ...they worked miracles in restoring his body and health ...he's a living testimony to just how good our medical care system is ...he has no health insurance. ...to my knowledge he lost everything in the fire ...though the paper reported it was cigarette related, dickford is a non-smoker ...and if you saw the burn pattern on his body and listened to his story you'd probably believe as I do that the fire started elsewhere, not the bedroom ...but I digress. ...dickford is a former software developer retired to the keys ...he lives alone, frugally, and hawks newspapers among other things to support himself ...he is involved in the local community helping others less fortunate than himself. ...I'll be donating to the fund ...I think it will be money put to good use. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 1:23 PM To: Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund > RESEND with Links this time. > Bryan > > "We're a family." > > Members often share that sentiment in their posts. The Database > Advisor group is a family. It's obvious in our responses and brief > explosions of humor that we care about one another. > > Dickford Cohn, a member of our family has suffered a great loss. Due > to a fire, this member has lost his home and all of his belongings. He > recently spent a number of weeks in the hospital, recovering from > serious burns. You can read more about his horrific encounter with > death in the online article, Hawker dragged from trailer fire. Keys > News ( http://keysnews.com/node/13470 ) > > The DBA Board of Directors recently voted to accept donations from > members on Dickford's behalf. The DBA organization will keep nothing > for administrative purposes -- we will forward every cent donated to > Dickford. > >>From the time of this message until July 31, 2009, every donation > received will go to Dickford Cohn. > > Make your donation via our existing PayPal account link ( > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/donations/dickford.asp ). > > If you prefer snail mail, please send donation to the following address: > > Database Advisors, Inc. > 814 Peppard Drive > Bel Air, MD 21014 > > > Please make your check or money order payable to Database Advisors, > Inc. As always, donations of any kind are not mandatory for > membership. > > John R. Bartow > > President Database Advisors, Inc. > Email: president at databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 16 15:03:55 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:03:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund In-Reply-To: References: <05bf01c9ee8b$3f2935e0$bd7ba1a0$@net> Message-ID: I haven't been able to reach the paypal link. Maybe it's flooded right now. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:24 AM To: administrivia at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund RESEND with Links this time. Bryan "We're a family." Members often share that sentiment in their posts. The Database Advisor group is a family. It's obvious in our responses and brief explosions of humor that we care about one another. Dickford Cohn, a member of our family has suffered a great loss. Due to a fire, this member has lost his home and all of his belongings. He recently spent a number of weeks in the hospital, recovering from serious burns. You can read more about his horrific encounter with death in the online article, Hawker dragged from trailer fire. Keys News ( http://keysnews.com/node/13470 ) The DBA Board of Directors recently voted to accept donations from members on Dickford's behalf. The DBA organization will keep nothing for administrative purposes -- we will forward every cent donated to Dickford. >From the time of this message until July 31, 2009, every donation received will go to Dickford Cohn. Make your donation via our existing PayPal account link ( http://www.databaseadvisors.com/donations/dickford.asp ). If you prefer snail mail, please send donation to the following address: Database Advisors, Inc. 814 Peppard Drive Bel Air, MD 21014 Please make your check or money order payable to Database Advisors, Inc. As always, donations of any kind are not mandatory for membership. John R. Bartow President Database Advisors, Inc. Email: president at databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 15:13:10 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:13:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund References: <05bf01c9ee8b$3f2935e0$bd7ba1a0$@net> Message-ID: <555A8FB012074DC0AF0EA383BC0F235C@SusanOne> I can't get the site to open period -- not even the Home page is connecting. Susan H. >I haven't been able to reach the paypal link. Maybe it's flooded right > now. From hkotsch at arcor.de Tue Jun 16 15:45:44 2009 From: hkotsch at arcor.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:45:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund In-Reply-To: <555A8FB012074DC0AF0EA383BC0F235C@SusanOne> Message-ID: No problem with PayPal from Germany. Helmut -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Susan Harkins Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Juni 2009 22:13 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Administrivia - Dickford Cohn Donation Fund I can't get the site to open period -- not even the Home page is connecting. Susan H. >I haven't been able to reach the paypal link. Maybe it's flooded right > now. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 16 16:26:12 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:26:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures Message-ID: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com> How do you trap ODBC failures? For example an index prevents a record being added to a form, I get an ODBC error message (actually two) but it doesn't seem to be occurring in code that I can break into and trap the error. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 16 16:52:48 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:52:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures In-Reply-To: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A381430.7000408@colbyconsulting.com> Never mind. The form's error handler does this. I was apparently testing the wrong form. Sorry for the ring. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com jwcolby wrote: > How do you trap ODBC failures? For example an index prevents a record being added to a form, I get > an ODBC error message (actually two) but it doesn't seem to be occurring in code that I can break > into and trap the error. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jun 17 02:45:31 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:45:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures In-Reply-To: <4A381430.7000408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com>, <4A381430.7000408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A389F1B.24174.13F35088@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's amazing the number of times that sort of thing happens when you post to this list. I was just composing a message to the list asking for help on a problem I was having. Trying to write a nice clear explanation of the problem for the list made me think a bit more about it and I realised that another approach would solve it. It's doing exaclty what I want now . Thanks for your help everyone :-) -- Stuart On 16 Jun 2009 at 17:52, jwcolby wrote: > Never mind. The form's error handler does this. I was apparently testing the wrong form. > > Sorry for the ring. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > jwcolby wrote: > > How do you trap ODBC failures? For example an index prevents a record being added to a form, I get > > an ODBC error message (actually two) but it doesn't seem to be occurring in code that I can break > > into and trap the error. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 17 06:59:14 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 07:59:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures In-Reply-To: <4A389F1B.24174.13F35088@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com>, <4A381430.7000408@colbyconsulting.com> <4A389F1B.24174.13F35088@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A38DA92.2000807@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Glad I could be of help Stuart. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Stuart McLachlan wrote: > It's amazing the number of times that sort of thing happens when you post to this list. > > I was just composing a message to the list asking for help on a problem I was having. > > Trying to write a nice clear explanation of the problem for the list made me think a bit more > about it and I realised that another approach would solve it. It's doing exaclty what I want > now . > > Thanks for your help everyone :-) > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed Jun 17 07:30:03 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:30:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures References: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com>, <4A381430.7000408@colbyconsulting.com> <4A389F1B.24174.13F35088@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ...I find that to be the rule rather than the exception these days ...trying to define the problem such that even jc can understand it does wonders for my understanding of it :-P William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:45 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures > It's amazing the number of times that sort of thing happens when you post > to this list. > > I was just composing a message to the list asking for help on a problem I > was having. > > Trying to write a nice clear explanation of the problem for the list made > me think a bit more > about it and I realised that another approach would solve it. It's doing > exaclty what I want > now . > > Thanks for your help everyone :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 16 Jun 2009 at 17:52, jwcolby wrote: > >> Never mind. The form's error handler does this. I was apparently >> testing the wrong form. >> >> Sorry for the ring. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> jwcolby wrote: >> > How do you trap ODBC failures? For example an index prevents a record >> > being added to a form, I get >> > an ODBC error message (actually two) but it doesn't seem to be >> > occurring in code that I can break >> > into and trap the error. >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 17 08:06:27 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:06:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures In-Reply-To: References: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com>, <4A381430.7000408@colbyconsulting.com> <4A389F1B.24174.13F35088@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A38EA53.8070407@colbyconsulting.com> > ...trying to define the problem such that even jc can understand it does > wonders for my understanding of it :-P Trying to define the problem such that YOU can understand it does wonders for YOUR understanding. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > ...I find that to be the rule rather than the exception these days > ...trying to define the problem such that even jc can understand it does > wonders for my understanding of it :-P > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Stuart McLachlan" > Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:45 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures > >> It's amazing the number of times that sort of thing happens when you post >> to this list. >> >> I was just composing a message to the list asking for help on a problem I >> was having. >> >> Trying to write a nice clear explanation of the problem for the list made >> me think a bit more >> about it and I realised that another approach would solve it. It's doing >> exaclty what I want >> now . >> >> Thanks for your help everyone :-) >> >> -- >> Stuart >> >> On 16 Jun 2009 at 17:52, jwcolby wrote: >> >>> Never mind. The form's error handler does this. I was apparently >>> testing the wrong form. >>> >>> Sorry for the ring. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> jwcolby wrote: >>>> How do you trap ODBC failures? For example an index prevents a record >>>> being added to a form, I get >>>> an ODBC error message (actually two) but it doesn't seem to be >>>> occurring in code that I can break >>>> into and trap the error. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 17 10:10:12 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:10:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Message-ID: <388933FB85BF444F9F663BCDB55EABDE@HAL9005> Dear List: As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com _____ From: Scott Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 7:23 AM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: RE: AMS Update Rocky: Peter gave me the message to call you but I just didn't have time yesterday. I will try and call later in the afternoon today (I have a presentation at lunch time that will zap all of my brainpower). Outlook It works!!!! Amazing. However, it sets the due date in my calendar rather than the "Arens Group Jobs In Public Folder" calendar. Also, all we need is the file number in the calendar because that calendar is only for internal due dates. Thus, we don't need any works like "due on this date," etc. Sales Inventory I forgot to include the invoice number on this report. Also, I forgot to mention that we would like this report to work basically the same way as the appraisal job report in that you can choose to run all, complete, active, etc. Thanks, Scott _____ From: Rocky Smolin [mailto:rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 6:49 AM To: Scott Subject: AMS Update Scott: I sent an update yesterday but I still have a couple of questions. One is about adding dates to the Outlook calendar. It is working locally but I haven't figured out yet how to point to a custom or shared calendar that is not the default calendar in the user's installation of Outlook. It may be, however, that the shared calendar is the default calendar on your network, in which case the appointment will be added to the right calendar. So I'd like to test that with you and also go over a couple of the other changes. Please call when you have a couple of minutes. Regards, Rocky From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 10:23:53 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:23:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update References: <388933FB85BF444F9F663BCDB55EABDE@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one points > to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 17 10:45:44 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:45:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update In-Reply-To: References: <388933FB85BF444F9F663BCDB55EABDE@HAL9005> Message-ID: Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Wed Jun 17 11:27:26 2009 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:27:26 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Message-ID: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> Somehow I've caused my Immediate window to come up clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple ....... At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, Stephen Bond ???? From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 11:46:56 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:46:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <4632DFF159194B3A887A19AA85386210@SusanOne> That happened to me a long time ago -- I never did figure out how to redock it -- I just keep restoring it. :( If someone has the answer, I will definitely write it up as an Office tip with the appropriate credit! ;) Susan H. up clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple ....... At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 12:18:10 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 18:18:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <4a392556.0702d00a.7de4.1980@mx.google.com> Have you tried normal re-sizing and dragging-n-dropping? Grab the outline, hold down the shift key and drag it to a smaller rectangle Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: 17 June 2009 17:27 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Somehow I've caused my Immediate window to come up clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple ....... At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, Stephen Bond ???? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Wed Jun 17 12:31:45 2009 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:31:45 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <5F0F512A409E4EFB8975E8CB423FFF7C@AB> Stephen Just right-click anywhere in the Immediate window and choose Dockable. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Sendt: 17. juni 2009 18:27 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Somehow I've caused my Immediate window to come up clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple ....... At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, Stephen Bond ???? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Wed Jun 17 12:39:18 2009 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 05:39:18 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Message-ID: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861A@server.BondSoftware.local> Max / Agser Unfortunately neither of these restores it to the original 'split' window like it was. I've tried using both techniques along with Window>Split ... no go. Stephen Bond From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 17 12:48:22 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:48:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861A@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861A@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: Nothing is going to "restore" it. You have to recreate it the way you want it. If you dock the immediate window, you have control over where you dock it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Max / Agser Unfortunately neither of these restores it to the original 'split' window like it was. I've tried using both techniques along with Window>Split ... no go. Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Wed Jun 17 12:55:59 2009 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 05:55:59 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Message-ID: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861B@server.BondSoftware.local> Rocky Can't sleep, being doing some 'learning' via your Outlook problem. Cobbled up this and it works here, on a non-default folder. Sub ShortTestNonDefault() Dim i As Long Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As NameSpace Dim myFolder1 As Object, myFolder2 As Object Dim myFolder3 As Object Dim itemCount As Long, SpecificItem As Object Dim myAppointments As Items Dim myItems As Outlook.Items, rItems As Outlook.Items ' Automation code example. Set ol = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set myFolder1 = olns.Folders("Public Folders") Set myFolder2 = myFolder1.Folders("All Public Folders") Set myFolder3 = myFolder2.Folders("Arrowtown Bookings") itemCount = myFolder3.Items.Count ' Set myItems to the collection of items in the folder. Set myItems = myFolder3.Items ' display from the start of this month only Set rItems = myItems.Restrict("[Start] > '01/6/2009'") ' Loop through all of the items in the folder. For Each SpecificItem In rItems Debug.Print SpecificItem.Subject, SpecificItem.Start, SpecificItem.End Next ' try adding one Set SpecificItem = myFolder3.Items.Add With SpecificItem .Start = #6/18/2009 3:00:00 PM# .End = DateAdd("h", 1, .Start) .Subject = "Just a test" .Save End With Set SpecificItem = Nothing: Set myItems = Nothing: Set rItems = Nothing Set myAppointments = Nothing Set myFolder3 = Nothing Set myFolder2 = Nothing: Set myFolder1 = Nothing Set olns = Nothing Set ol = Nothing End Sub HTH Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:00 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 17 13:21:38 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:21:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861B@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861B@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <27A34BCA078B4709965F07915A861290@HAL9005> Stephen: Thanks so much for that. I'll patch it in and send it over. It's hard for me to actually go there so I'm kind of shooting in the dark, but it looks good. Client says his folder is "Arens Group Jobs In Public Folder" so if that's accurate then I would substitute that in for "ArrowTown Bookings", yes? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky Can't sleep, being doing some 'learning' via your Outlook problem. Cobbled up this and it works here, on a non-default folder. Sub ShortTestNonDefault() Dim i As Long Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As NameSpace Dim myFolder1 As Object, myFolder2 As Object Dim myFolder3 As Object Dim itemCount As Long, SpecificItem As Object Dim myAppointments As Items Dim myItems As Outlook.Items, rItems As Outlook.Items ' Automation code example. Set ol = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set myFolder1 = olns.Folders("Public Folders") Set myFolder2 = myFolder1.Folders("All Public Folders") Set myFolder3 = myFolder2.Folders("Arrowtown Bookings") itemCount = myFolder3.Items.Count ' Set myItems to the collection of items in the folder. Set myItems = myFolder3.Items ' display from the start of this month only Set rItems = myItems.Restrict("[Start] > '01/6/2009'") ' Loop through all of the items in the folder. For Each SpecificItem In rItems Debug.Print SpecificItem.Subject, SpecificItem.Start, SpecificItem.End Next ' try adding one Set SpecificItem = myFolder3.Items.Add With SpecificItem .Start = #6/18/2009 3:00:00 PM# .End = DateAdd("h", 1, .Start) .Subject = "Just a test" .Save End With Set SpecificItem = Nothing: Set myItems = Nothing: Set rItems = Nothing Set myAppointments = Nothing Set myFolder3 = Nothing Set myFolder2 = Nothing: Set myFolder1 = Nothing Set olns = Nothing Set ol = Nothing End Sub HTH Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:00 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 17 13:55:52 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:55:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <4632DFF159194B3A887A19AA85386210@SusanOne> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> <4632DFF159194B3A887A19AA85386210@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4A393C38.5050004@colbyconsulting.com> AFAIK you just drag it to the bottom and it redocks. There are properties somewhere that decide what objects can be docked. Maybe this property got reset. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: > That happened to me a long time ago -- I never did figure out how to redock > it -- I just keep restoring it. :( If someone has the answer, I will > definitely write it up as an Office tip with the appropriate credit! ;) > > Susan H. > > up > clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the > bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all > the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple > ....... > > At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, > > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Wed Jun 17 14:26:35 2009 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:26:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861A@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861A@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <7D0312224AC94C879BF10E34EA5E4772@AB> Stephen You will get the original 'split' window if you maximise any of your module windows after having made the Immediate windows 'dockable'. At least that's what happens on my installation. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stephen Sendt: 17. juni 2009 19:39 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Max / Agser Unfortunately neither of these restores it to the original 'split' window like it was. I've tried using both techniques along with Window>Split ... no go. Stephen Bond -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Wed Jun 17 16:06:43 2009 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:06:43 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Message-ID: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861D@server.BondSoftware.local> My hierarchy is: Folder1 as parent to Folder2 as parent to Folder3. If his 1 and 2 are the same as mine then your assumption is right. I believe I read where these names are case-sensitive, didn't try that out, I just stuck to being exact. This could be a trap if your client isn't careful. Good luck Stephen Bond Otatara, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 6:30 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Stephen: Thanks so much for that. I'll patch it in and send it over. It's hard for me to actually go there so I'm kind of shooting in the dark, but it looks good. Client says his folder is "Arens Group Jobs In Public Folder" so if that's accurate then I would substitute that in for "ArrowTown Bookings", yes? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky Can't sleep, being doing some 'learning' via your Outlook problem. Cobbled up this and it works here, on a non-default folder. Sub ShortTestNonDefault() Dim i As Long Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As NameSpace Dim myFolder1 As Object, myFolder2 As Object Dim myFolder3 As Object Dim itemCount As Long, SpecificItem As Object Dim myAppointments As Items Dim myItems As Outlook.Items, rItems As Outlook.Items ' Automation code example. Set ol = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set myFolder1 = olns.Folders("Public Folders") Set myFolder2 = myFolder1.Folders("All Public Folders") Set myFolder3 = myFolder2.Folders("Arrowtown Bookings") itemCount = myFolder3.Items.Count ' Set myItems to the collection of items in the folder. Set myItems = myFolder3.Items ' display from the start of this month only Set rItems = myItems.Restrict("[Start] > '01/6/2009'") ' Loop through all of the items in the folder. For Each SpecificItem In rItems Debug.Print SpecificItem.Subject, SpecificItem.Start, SpecificItem.End Next ' try adding one Set SpecificItem = myFolder3.Items.Add With SpecificItem .Start = #6/18/2009 3:00:00 PM# .End = DateAdd("h", 1, .Start) .Subject = "Just a test" .Save End With Set SpecificItem = Nothing: Set myItems = Nothing: Set rItems = Nothing Set myAppointments = Nothing Set myFolder3 = Nothing Set myFolder2 = Nothing: Set myFolder1 = Nothing Set olns = Nothing Set ol = Nothing End Sub HTH Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:00 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 17 16:22:26 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:22:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861D@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861D@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <78FA9080A06B41578D21586BF2D65A3D@HAL9005> Case sensitive? Oh, crap. I may have to actually leave my desk and go visit. Haven't heard back yet but I will let you know. Thanks again. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update My hierarchy is: Folder1 as parent to Folder2 as parent to Folder3. If his 1 and 2 are the same as mine then your assumption is right. I believe I read where these names are case-sensitive, didn't try that out, I just stuck to being exact. This could be a trap if your client isn't careful. Good luck Stephen Bond Otatara, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 6:30 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Stephen: Thanks so much for that. I'll patch it in and send it over. It's hard for me to actually go there so I'm kind of shooting in the dark, but it looks good. Client says his folder is "Arens Group Jobs In Public Folder" so if that's accurate then I would substitute that in for "ArrowTown Bookings", yes? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky Can't sleep, being doing some 'learning' via your Outlook problem. Cobbled up this and it works here, on a non-default folder. Sub ShortTestNonDefault() Dim i As Long Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As NameSpace Dim myFolder1 As Object, myFolder2 As Object Dim myFolder3 As Object Dim itemCount As Long, SpecificItem As Object Dim myAppointments As Items Dim myItems As Outlook.Items, rItems As Outlook.Items ' Automation code example. Set ol = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set myFolder1 = olns.Folders("Public Folders") Set myFolder2 = myFolder1.Folders("All Public Folders") Set myFolder3 = myFolder2.Folders("Arrowtown Bookings") itemCount = myFolder3.Items.Count ' Set myItems to the collection of items in the folder. Set myItems = myFolder3.Items ' display from the start of this month only Set rItems = myItems.Restrict("[Start] > '01/6/2009'") ' Loop through all of the items in the folder. For Each SpecificItem In rItems Debug.Print SpecificItem.Subject, SpecificItem.Start, SpecificItem.End Next ' try adding one Set SpecificItem = myFolder3.Items.Add With SpecificItem .Start = #6/18/2009 3:00:00 PM# .End = DateAdd("h", 1, .Start) .Subject = "Just a test" .Save End With Set SpecificItem = Nothing: Set myItems = Nothing: Set rItems = Nothing Set myAppointments = Nothing Set myFolder3 = Nothing Set myFolder2 = Nothing: Set myFolder1 = Nothing Set olns = Nothing Set ol = Nothing End Sub HTH Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:00 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Wed Jun 17 16:24:57 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:24:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861B@server.BondSoftware.local> <27A34BCA078B4709965F07915A861290@HAL9005> Message-ID: <38F816AFA3AA4533801928EEBB69107E@jislaptopdev> " It's hard for me to actually go there" Rocky ...I just got through logging in to a client's system and fixing a timecard app without ever leaving the house ...as long as there is broadband on both ends, its almost like being there ...without the driving or lugging around the laptop. William From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 16:27:21 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:27:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update In-Reply-To: <78FA9080A06B41578D21586BF2D65A3D@HAL9005> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861D@server.BondSoftware.local> <78FA9080A06B41578D21586BF2D65A3D@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4a395fc0.0707d00a.5cb5.0285@mx.google.com> You have a DESK? Don't believe you... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 17 June 2009 22:22 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Case sensitive? Oh, crap. I may have to actually leave my desk and go visit. Haven't heard back yet but I will let you know. Thanks again. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update My hierarchy is: Folder1 as parent to Folder2 as parent to Folder3. If his 1 and 2 are the same as mine then your assumption is right. I believe I read where these names are case-sensitive, didn't try that out, I just stuck to being exact. This could be a trap if your client isn't careful. Good luck Stephen Bond Otatara, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 6:30 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Stephen: Thanks so much for that. I'll patch it in and send it over. It's hard for me to actually go there so I'm kind of shooting in the dark, but it looks good. Client says his folder is "Arens Group Jobs In Public Folder" so if that's accurate then I would substitute that in for "ArrowTown Bookings", yes? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky Can't sleep, being doing some 'learning' via your Outlook problem. Cobbled up this and it works here, on a non-default folder. Sub ShortTestNonDefault() Dim i As Long Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As NameSpace Dim myFolder1 As Object, myFolder2 As Object Dim myFolder3 As Object Dim itemCount As Long, SpecificItem As Object Dim myAppointments As Items Dim myItems As Outlook.Items, rItems As Outlook.Items ' Automation code example. Set ol = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set myFolder1 = olns.Folders("Public Folders") Set myFolder2 = myFolder1.Folders("All Public Folders") Set myFolder3 = myFolder2.Folders("Arrowtown Bookings") itemCount = myFolder3.Items.Count ' Set myItems to the collection of items in the folder. Set myItems = myFolder3.Items ' display from the start of this month only Set rItems = myItems.Restrict("[Start] > '01/6/2009'") ' Loop through all of the items in the folder. For Each SpecificItem In rItems Debug.Print SpecificItem.Subject, SpecificItem.Start, SpecificItem.End Next ' try adding one Set SpecificItem = myFolder3.Items.Add With SpecificItem .Start = #6/18/2009 3:00:00 PM# .End = DateAdd("h", 1, .Start) .Subject = "Just a test" .Save End With Set SpecificItem = Nothing: Set myItems = Nothing: Set rItems = Nothing Set myAppointments = Nothing Set myFolder3 = Nothing Set myFolder2 = Nothing: Set myFolder1 = Nothing Set olns = Nothing Set ol = Nothing End Sub HTH Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:00 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 17 16:32:39 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:32:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update In-Reply-To: <4a395fc0.0707d00a.5cb5.0285@mx.google.com> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE03861D@server.BondSoftware.local><78FA9080A06B41578D21586BF2D65A3D@HAL9005> <4a395fc0.0707d00a.5cb5.0285@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Is it that obvious? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update You have a DESK? Don't believe you... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 17 June 2009 22:22 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Case sensitive? Oh, crap. I may have to actually leave my desk and go visit. Haven't heard back yet but I will let you know. Thanks again. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update My hierarchy is: Folder1 as parent to Folder2 as parent to Folder3. If his 1 and 2 are the same as mine then your assumption is right. I believe I read where these names are case-sensitive, didn't try that out, I just stuck to being exact. This could be a trap if your client isn't careful. Good luck Stephen Bond Otatara, New Zealand -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 6:30 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Stephen: Thanks so much for that. I'll patch it in and send it over. It's hard for me to actually go there so I'm kind of shooting in the dark, but it looks good. Client says his folder is "Arens Group Jobs In Public Folder" so if that's accurate then I would substitute that in for "ArrowTown Bookings", yes? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 10:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky Can't sleep, being doing some 'learning' via your Outlook problem. Cobbled up this and it works here, on a non-default folder. Sub ShortTestNonDefault() Dim i As Long Dim ol As Outlook.Application Dim olns As NameSpace Dim myFolder1 As Object, myFolder2 As Object Dim myFolder3 As Object Dim itemCount As Long, SpecificItem As Object Dim myAppointments As Items Dim myItems As Outlook.Items, rItems As Outlook.Items ' Automation code example. Set ol = GetObject(, "Outlook.Application") Set olns = ol.GetNamespace("MAPI") Set myFolder1 = olns.Folders("Public Folders") Set myFolder2 = myFolder1.Folders("All Public Folders") Set myFolder3 = myFolder2.Folders("Arrowtown Bookings") itemCount = myFolder3.Items.Count ' Set myItems to the collection of items in the folder. Set myItems = myFolder3.Items ' display from the start of this month only Set rItems = myItems.Restrict("[Start] > '01/6/2009'") ' Loop through all of the items in the folder. For Each SpecificItem In rItems Debug.Print SpecificItem.Subject, SpecificItem.Start, SpecificItem.End Next ' try adding one Set SpecificItem = myFolder3.Items.Add With SpecificItem .Start = #6/18/2009 3:00:00 PM# .End = DateAdd("h", 1, .Start) .Subject = "Just a test" .Save End With Set SpecificItem = Nothing: Set myItems = Nothing: Set rItems = Nothing Set myAppointments = Nothing Set myFolder3 = Nothing Set myFolder2 = Nothing: Set myFolder1 = Nothing Set olns = Nothing Set ol = Nothing End Sub HTH Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 4:00 a.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Yeah - I took a look at it. It may give me a lead on a solution. The problem is that I'm not there so it's hard to do the trial and error thing. I'll parse it out later and see if I can get a clue how to do it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Rocky, did you get that link I sent yesterday? At the bottom of the code, it looked like they were referencing a custom calendar. When I'm stuck like this, I put together a For loop that prints the properties, objects, whatever of the appropriate collection/object. Susan H. > > As you can see from the email below, the function to add a date to the > Outlook calendar works except, as I thought, it goes to his personal > calendar and not the shared one. Does anybody know offhand how one > points to a different calendar when automating Outlook from Access? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Thu Jun 18 01:54:29 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:54:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <38c884770906172354x1b664b73j21392aba92b4bb0b@mail.gmail.com> If you still haven't solved this have you tried double clicking the title bar of the immediate window ? Paul Hartland 2009/6/17 Stephen > Somehow I've caused my Immediate window to come up > clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the > bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all > the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple > ....... > > At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, > > Stephen Bond ???? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 02:38:28 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 08:38:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! In-Reply-To: <38c884770906172354x1b664b73j21392aba92b4bb0b@mail.gmail.com> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038619@server.BondSoftware.local> <38c884770906172354x1b664b73j21392aba92b4bb0b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Playing around with this, I ended up in the same position with the IW as a separate window and either showing the IW or another code window but not both. I got around it by having the IW on top with the other code windows behind it, then Right Clicking and selecting Dockable. Worked for me (thank goodness - I was panicking) Max On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Paul Hartland wrote: > If you still haven't solved this have you tried double clicking the title > bar of the immediate window ? > > Paul Hartland > > 2009/6/17 Stephen > > > Somehow I've caused my Immediate window to come up > > clobbering the view of the code. It used to appear at the > > bottom of (and displacing some of) the code. I've tried all > > the Window menu options. It's gotta be something simple > > ....... > > > > At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, > > > > Stephen Bond ???? > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu Jun 18 02:52:42 2009 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:52:42 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Message-ID: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local> Max, that brings it back to close to what it was, and close enough. Thanks to all for your suggestions. Stephen Bond -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 7:46 p.m. To: Stephen Subject: Re: [AccessD] VBA Immediate window - HELP! Playing around with this, I ended up in the same position with the IW as a separate window and either showing the IW or another code window but not both. I got around it by having the IW on top with the other code windows behind it, then Right Clicking and selecting Dockable. Worked for me (thank goodness - I was panicking) Max On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 7:54 AM, Paul Hartland wrote: > If you still haven't solved this have you tried double clicking the > title bar of the immediate window ? > > Paul Hartland > > 2009/6/17 Stephen > > > Somehow I've caused my Immediate window to come up clobbering the > > view of the code. It used to appear at the bottom of (and > > displacing some of) the code. I've tried all the Window menu > > options. It's gotta be something simple ....... > > > > At 4.30am Thursday and having a senior moment, > > > > Stephen Bond ???? > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Johncliviger at aol.com Thu Jun 18 05:19:12 2009 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:19:12 EDT Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Message-ID: Good morning Max You should know that you don't find Desks in Derby. johnc From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 12:29:41 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:29:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a3a7988.1701d00a.6ba2.2dc0@mx.google.com> I was just so surprised to find Rocky saying that he had a desk. I had visions of Bob Dylan type character with a screen built into his drumset...typing as he was walking/talking... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Johncliviger at aol.com Sent: 18 June 2009 11:19 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: AMS Update Good morning Max You should know that you don't find Desks in Derby. johnc -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 18 14:59:36 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:59:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linux/Apache Expert Message-ID: I will be posting this to OT. I cannot go into very many details in this email, but my company is looking for a Linux/Apache expert that could perform a 'forensic' look at a server. This person would need some verifiable credentials, and probably needs to be able to travel to Dallas, TX. Please email me directly if anyone is interested. dwutka at marlow.com Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu Jun 18 15:57:51 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:57:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms Message-ID: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All To those of you that use "CancClose" to prevent user's from closing the application by clicking on the application Close (X) icon in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Make sure when you open a subform to turn the (assuming your parent form = Modal True ) parent form Modal = False. When you close the subform turn the parent form Modal = True. Works like a dream and the user cannot crash the program. From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Jun 18 16:23:47 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:23:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: [dba-SQLServer] Installing SQL Server 2005 developer on a machinewith SQL Server 2005 express edition Message-ID: <70C3D3FC16FB48EF9B9C3DE69086AC6E@murphy3234aaf1> I posted this on the SQL list but there does not seem to be much action over there today. Possibly some one on this list can answer. Thanks. Doug Folks, I am looking at installing SQL Server 2005 developer edition on my development system? The computer currently has Visual Studio 2008 and SQL Server 2005 express edition on it. As things stand now Visual Studio uses the Express edition for projects and web sites. I don't want to screw up my current projects. I would like to have access to the Full version of Management Studio to work on some remote servers. What is the consensus of the SQL Server gurus on the best way to do this? Thanks in advance. Doug From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 16:25:57 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 22:25:57 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms In-Reply-To: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4a3ab0e9.0506d00a.569b.26ae@mx.google.com> Yes Tony, you are quite correct here. You can also use this method to prevent the user from closing the last form (ie, the program) without the "permission" of the program. You can probably guess how, but to spell it out, merely declare a variable in the form and set to false. Don't allow the form to close while the variable is false. When all your "program requirements" have been met, set the variable (Boolean) to true. Then when they try to close the form they can do so. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: 18 June 2009 21:58 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms Hey All To those of you that use "CancClose" to prevent user's from closing the application by clicking on the application Close (X) icon in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Make sure when you open a subform to turn the (assuming your parent form = Modal True ) parent form Modal = False. When you close the subform turn the parent form Modal = True. Works like a dream and the user cannot crash the program. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jun 18 16:42:45 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 07:42:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms In-Reply-To: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4A3AB4D5.249.1C1839D8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's another one I've missed somehow. WTF is "CancClose". Google doesn't return anything relevant. -- Stuart On 18 Jun 2009 at 13:57, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > To those of you that use "CancClose" to prevent user's from closing the > application by clicking on the application Close (X) icon in the upper > right hand corner of the screen. Make sure when you open a subform to > turn the (assuming your parent form = Modal True ) parent form Modal = > False. When you close the subform turn the parent form Modal = True. > Works like a dream and the user cannot crash the program. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Thu Jun 18 16:48:20 2009 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:48:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: [dba-SQLServer] Installing SQL Server 2005 developer on a machinewith SQL Server 2005 express edition In-Reply-To: <70C3D3FC16FB48EF9B9C3DE69086AC6E@murphy3234aaf1> References: <70C3D3FC16FB48EF9B9C3DE69086AC6E@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <4A3AB624.3000602@embarqmail.com> Hi Doug, I'm certainly not a guru but I had SQL2005 standard on my machine. A friend was having some problems with express so I installed it on my machine as well so I could see what he was seeing. Both worked fine. I might add I also had SQL 2000 on the same machine. My Server has SQL 2000, 2005 and 2008 on it and all seems OK. Even though it works, I would recommend removing express, installing standard and then just change the connection string in VB 2008 projects to the name of the instance you want to connect to. Be sure to not use the default SQL Server name (Your computer name would be the default for the first instance of SQL Server) but name it something else like SQL2005 and SQL2005EXP, etc as you add instances. HTH Bill Doug Murphy wrote: > I posted this on the SQL list but there does not seem to be much action > over there today. Possibly some one on this list can answer. > > Thanks. > > Doug > > > Folks, > > I am looking at installing SQL Server 2005 developer edition on my > development system? The computer currently has Visual Studio 2008 and SQL > Server 2005 express edition on it. As things stand now Visual Studio uses > the Express edition for projects and web sites. I don't want to screw up my > current projects. I would like to have access to the Full version of > Management Studio to work on some remote servers. > > What is the consensus of the SQL Server gurus on the best way to do this? > > Thanks in advance. > > Doug > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jun 18 18:03:01 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:03:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms In-Reply-To: <4a3ab0e9.0506d00a.569b.26ae@mx.google.com> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4a3ab0e9.0506d00a.569b.26ae@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A3AC7A5.8829.1C61B455@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A slight correction. You can't cancel the Close action on a form. It is the Unload event that you need to cancel if the variable is false. -- Stuart On 18 Jun 2009 at 22:25, Max Wanadoo wrote: > Yes Tony, you are quite correct here. > You can also use this method to prevent the user from closing the last form > (ie, the program) without the "permission" of the program. You can probably > guess how, but to spell it out, merely declare a variable in the form and > set to false. Don't allow the form to close while the variable is false. > When all your "program requirements" have been met, set the variable > (Boolean) to true. Then when they try to close the form they can do so. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: 18 June 2009 21:58 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms > > Hey All > To those of you that use "CancClose" to prevent user's from closing the > application by clicking on the application Close (X) icon in the upper > right hand corner of the screen. Make sure when you open a subform to > turn the (assuming your parent form = Modal True ) parent form Modal = > False. When you close the subform turn the parent form Modal = True. > Works like a dream and the user cannot crash the program. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Jun 18 18:09:57 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:09:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: [dba-SQLServer] Installing SQL Server 2005 developer on a machinewith SQL Server 2005 express edition In-Reply-To: <4A3AB624.3000602@embarqmail.com> References: <70C3D3FC16FB48EF9B9C3DE69086AC6E@murphy3234aaf1> <4A3AB624.3000602@embarqmail.com> Message-ID: <1D50A5430B13488092B829A87295F110@murphy3234aaf1> Thanks Bill -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 2:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] FW: [dba-SQLServer] Installing SQL Server 2005 developer on a machinewith SQL Server 2005 express edition Hi Doug, I'm certainly not a guru but I had SQL2005 standard on my machine. A friend was having some problems with express so I installed it on my machine as well so I could see what he was seeing. Both worked fine. I might add I also had SQL 2000 on the same machine. My Server has SQL 2000, 2005 and 2008 on it and all seems OK. Even though it works, I would recommend removing express, installing standard and then just change the connection string in VB 2008 projects to the name of the instance you want to connect to. Be sure to not use the default SQL Server name (Your computer name would be the default for the first instance of SQL Server) but name it something else like SQL2005 and SQL2005EXP, etc as you add instances. HTH Bill Doug Murphy wrote: > I posted this on the SQL list but there does not seem to be much > action over there today. Possibly some one on this list can answer. > > Thanks. > > Doug > > > Folks, > > I am looking at installing SQL Server 2005 developer edition on my > development system? The computer currently has Visual Studio 2008 and > SQL Server 2005 express edition on it. As things stand now Visual > Studio uses the Express edition for projects and web sites. I don't > want to screw up my current projects. I would like to have access to > the Full version of Management Studio to work on some remote servers. > > What is the consensus of the SQL Server gurus on the best way to do this? > > Thanks in advance. > > Doug > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu Jun 18 18:35:54 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:35:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Preventing App Shut Down and Pop Up Forms In-Reply-To: <4A3AC7A5.8829.1C61B455@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4a3ab0e9.0506d00a.569b.26ae@mx.google.com> <4A3AC7A5.8829.1C61B455@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Stuart I am not telling you anything you don't already know. We are talking the same logic. Very simple concept. But no hiddened forms.etc. Just based on the Unload event and what forms are loaded. As I said no rocket science, but the beauty is the user cannot close the application, other then returning to the Main Menu.. Which is cooly, cooly and exactly what I wanted. Modal forms (which was my main point) were the problem, cause it conflicted with the UnLoad event of the parent form and caused a major lock up/crash on the sub/popup form. And that is why if you call a second form to pop up you have to delare modal = false for the parent form and then on close set modal for the parent form = true. Stuart McLachlan wrote: >A slight correction. You can't cancel the Close action on a form. > >It is the Unload event that you need to cancel if the variable is false. > > > From john at winhaven.net Thu Jun 18 19:23:01 2009 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 19:23:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] duplicating a row Message-ID: <00ed01c9f074$1b0f9b50$512ed1f0$@net> A thought just occurred to me that maybe there's a new, better way (or at least simpler) of duplicating a row in Access 2003. I've mostly just been reusing my code from A97. I need to duplicate the row without saving as two items will have to be changed in order to meet unique requirements. TIA John B. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 18 19:27:03 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:27:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> <4a3ab0e9.0506d00a.569b.26ae@mx.google.com> <4A3AC7A5.8829.1C61B455@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <8A8231C0F3BD43E9B6EE861A69625075@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: It has been a while since I have had to play with an Access DB but a client has called and I am doing nothing... but doing a Reno on the house. I know how to do linked combo box; that a no brainer but how do I extend that logic to two inter-connected Subforms on a form. When an item is selected on the subform 1 it would be nice to display all related items on subform 2. Also each subform should allow new items to be added and deleted... With enough code this could be done but there must be some 'nice' way other than brute force. TIA Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jun 18 20:03:56 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:03:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <8A8231C0F3BD43E9B6EE861A69625075@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com>, <8A8231C0F3BD43E9B6EE861A69625075@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A3AE3FC.2312.1CD069F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My standard way of doing this doesn't need any code, just: 1. Create a hidden textbox on the parent form "txtsubForm1Link" and set its source to "= frmsubForm1.Form!fldPK" 2. Set the "Link Master Field" of subForm2 to "txtsubForm1Link" and the "Link Child Field" to the foreign key in Form2. It's all automagic from then. I often do this to several levels of cascaded continuous forms on an unbound parent form where there is a need to maintain the data in a hierarchy of related tables. -- Stuart On 18 Jun 2009 at 17:27, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > It has been a while since I have had to play with an Access DB but a client > has called and I am doing nothing... but doing a Reno on the house. > > I know how to do linked combo box; that a no brainer but how do I extend > that logic to two inter-connected Subforms on a form. > > When an item is selected on the subform 1 it would be nice to display all > related items on subform 2. Also each subform should allow new items to be > added and deleted... > > With enough code this could be done but there must be some 'nice' way other > than brute force. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 18 20:50:32 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:50:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4A3AE3FC.2312.1CD069F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com>, <8A8231C0F3BD43E9B6EE861A69625075@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A3AE3FC.2312.1CD069F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A3AEEE8.7070202@colbyconsulting.com> yep, works like a charm. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Stuart McLachlan wrote: > My standard way of doing this doesn't need any code, just: > > 1. Create a hidden textbox on the parent form "txtsubForm1Link" and set its source to "= > frmsubForm1.Form!fldPK" > > 2. Set the "Link Master Field" of subForm2 to "txtsubForm1Link" and the "Link Child Field" > to the foreign key in Form2. > > It's all automagic from then. > > I often do this to several levels of cascaded continuous forms on an unbound parent form > where there is a need to maintain the data in a hierarchy of related tables. > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 18 23:10:39 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:10:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4A3AE3FC.2312.1CD069F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com> <8A8231C0F3BD43E9B6EE861A69625075@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A3AE3FC.2312.1CD069F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <8700A4D0B3634E0292F81D60C8A7B25B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thank you very much Stuart. Now that was simple so now I can resolve the cascading SubForm problem. Unfortunately, I can proceed no further for the moment as the client has not given me 'Carte blanche' to make any major changes... any changes for that matter as he is afraid the whole project will go off the rails like with the last programmer. ;-) Wouldn't you guess; there is no foreign key and data is incomplete... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms My standard way of doing this doesn't need any code, just: 1. Create a hidden textbox on the parent form "txtsubForm1Link" and set its source to "= frmsubForm1.Form!fldPK" 2. Set the "Link Master Field" of subForm2 to "txtsubForm1Link" and the "Link Child Field" to the foreign key in Form2. It's all automagic from then. I often do this to several levels of cascaded continuous forms on an unbound parent form where there is a need to maintain the data in a hierarchy of related tables. -- Stuart On 18 Jun 2009 at 17:27, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > It has been a while since I have had to play with an Access DB but a client > has called and I am doing nothing... but doing a Reno on the house. > > I know how to do linked combo box; that a no brainer but how do I extend > that logic to two inter-connected Subforms on a form. > > When an item is selected on the subform 1 it would be nice to display all > related items on subform 2. Also each subform should allow new items to be > added and deleted... > > With enough code this could be done but there must be some 'nice' way other > than brute force. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Fri Jun 19 01:26:54 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:26:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server In-Reply-To: <8700A4D0B3634E0292F81D60C8A7B25B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFEB@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Rambling thoughts... I have used and loved Access and Excel for year and years, but I think I have a new love now. Gotta say how totally impressed I am with SQL Server - Even the Free Express version is bloody brilliant. I use the enterprise version at work, but need to demo some stuff on my PC as a stand alone operation. So I installed SQL Server Express 2008, built an entire database from SQL Server 2000 scripts - tables, views, sproc, functions, the lot really in only a couple of minutes, and then imported all the data via DTS. took less than half a day from nothing to having something function perfectly well into an Access FE. the more I use SQL Server the more I am totally impressed, and the less and less I use Access and Excel for anything but front ends linked into SQL views and sprocs. ra ra ra... Just some friday afternoon musings from Oz.... regards Darryl. This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 19 03:41:44 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:41:44 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] duplicating a row Message-ID: Hi John Maybe, though I don't think so, but how can we know? /gustav >>> john at winhaven.net 19-06-2009 02:23 >>> A thought just occurred to me that maybe there's a new, better way (or at least simpler) of duplicating a row in Access 2003. I've mostly just been reusing my code from A97. I need to duplicate the row without saving as two items will have to be changed in order to meet unique requirements. TIA John B. From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 19 03:49:31 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:49:31 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Message-ID: Hi Jim Well, you could tell the client that for the project to go off the rails it first has to be on the rails - which it obviously isn't and which will not going to happen if he doesn't allow his repareteur to act. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 19-06-2009 06:10 >>> Thank you very much Stuart. Now that was simple so now I can resolve the cascading SubForm problem. Unfortunately, I can proceed no further for the moment as the client has not given me 'Carte blanche' to make any major changes... any changes for that matter as he is afraid the whole project will go off the rails like with the last programmer. ;-) Wouldn't you guess; there is no foreign key and data is incomplete... Jim From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 19 03:54:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:54:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Darryl Seems like you feel the rhythm - now turn on Visual Studio for your front-ends to hear the music. /gustav >>> Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au 19-06-2009 08:26 >>> Rambling thoughts... I have used and loved Access and Excel for year and years, but I think I have a new love now. Gotta say how totally impressed I am with SQL Server - Even the Free Express version is bloody brilliant. I use the enterprise version at work, but need to demo some stuff on my PC as a stand alone operation. So I installed SQL Server Express 2008, built an entire database from SQL Server 2000 scripts - tables, views, sproc, functions, the lot really in only a couple of minutes, and then imported all the data via DTS. took less than half a day from nothing to having something function perfectly well into an Access FE. the more I use SQL Server the more I am totally impressed, and the less and less I use Access and Excel for anything but front ends linked into SQL views and sprocs. ra ra ra... Just some friday afternoon musings from Oz.... regards Darryl. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 19 04:42:33 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 05:42:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server References: Message-ID: <07E74871AB654C418F3038B479CDF7DF@jislaptopdev> ...big step that ...and learning curve ...but wow, what an orchestra! :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Gustav Brock" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:54 AM To: Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server > Hi Darryl > > Seems like you feel the rhythm - now turn on Visual Studio for your > front-ends to hear the music. > > /gustav > > >>>> Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au 19-06-2009 08:26 >>> > Rambling thoughts... > > I have used and loved Access and Excel for year and years, but I think I > have a new love now. Gotta say how totally impressed I am with SQL > Server - Even the Free Express version is bloody brilliant. > > I use the enterprise version at work, but need to demo some stuff on my PC > as a stand alone operation. So I installed SQL Server Express 2008, built > an entire database from SQL Server 2000 scripts - tables, views, sproc, > functions, the lot really in only a couple of minutes, and then imported > all the data via DTS. took less than half a day from nothing to having > something function perfectly well into an Access FE. > > the more I use SQL Server the more I am totally impressed, and the less > and less I use Access and Excel for anything but front ends linked into > SQL views and sprocs. > > ra ra ra... > > Just some friday afternoon musings from Oz.... > > regards > Darryl. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 19 05:03:38 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:03:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <8700A4D0B3634E0292F81D60C8A7B25B@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3AAA4F.2060502@nanaimo.ark.com> <4A3ACF5A.5040505@nanaimo.ark.com> <8A8231C0F3BD43E9B6EE861A69625075@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A3AE3FC.2312.1CD069F0@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <8700A4D0B3634E0292F81D60C8A7B25B@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A3B627A.9060204@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. No foreign key! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thank you very much Stuart. Now that was simple so now I can resolve the > cascading SubForm problem. > > Unfortunately, I can proceed no further for the moment as the client has not > given me 'Carte blanche' to make any major changes... any changes for that > matter as he is afraid the whole project will go off the rails like with the > last programmer. ;-) > > Wouldn't you guess; there is no foreign key and data is incomplete... > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 6:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > My standard way of doing this doesn't need any code, just: > > 1. Create a hidden textbox on the parent form "txtsubForm1Link" and set its > source to "= > frmsubForm1.Form!fldPK" > > 2. Set the "Link Master Field" of subForm2 to "txtsubForm1Link" and the > "Link Child Field" > to the foreign key in Form2. > > It's all automagic from then. > > I often do this to several levels of cascaded continuous forms on an unbound > parent form > where there is a need to maintain the data in a hierarchy of related tables. > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 05:28:31 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 06:28:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] URL-like label Message-ID: <29f585dd0906190328qf18fad7m73dab8fd84093382@mail.gmail.com> I'm sure I've done this but I cannot remember how and I can't find it in the list of controls. I thought that I could create a control that looks and acts like a typical web page reference to another page. In this case when it's clicked I want to open a form. I suppose I could use a button control, but I was sure there was another way. This is Access 2003. TIA, Arthur From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 19 06:00:13 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:00:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] URL-like label In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906190328qf18fad7m73dab8fd84093382@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906190328qf18fad7m73dab8fd84093382@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A3B6FBD.1123.10AEA44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You can use a label, format the text any way that you want and use its on_click event. If you want the link to change its appearance when you mouse over it (such as to change its colour, make it underlined or whatever) you need to use two superimposed labels and the MouseMove event. Create two labels, one slightly larger than the other. Make the caption of the larger one empty Put your link text in the smaller one (and colour it appropriately if so desired( . Make sure that the larger one is lower in the Z Order (create it first and/or use Format - Send to back) Centre the smaller label in the larger one so that there is an overlap all round. Then use the following event procedures: (lblURL is the smaller label and lblURLClear is the larger one) Private Sub lblURL_MouseMove(Button As Integer, Shift As Integer, X As Single, Y As Single) lblURL.FontUnderline = True End Sub Private Sub lblURL_Click() DoCmd.OpenForm "frmLinkedForm" End Sub Private Sub lblURLClear_MouseMove(Button As Integer, Shift As Integer, X As Single, Y As Single) lblURL.FontUnderline = False End Sub -- Stuart On 19 Jun 2009 at 6:28, Arthur Fuller wrote: > I'm sure I've done this but I cannot remember how and I can't find it in the > list of controls. I thought that I could create a control that looks and > acts like a typical web page reference to another page. In this case when > it's clicked I want to open a form. I suppose I could use a button control, > but I was sure there was another way. This is Access 2003. > > TIA, > Arthur > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 19 06:35:41 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:35:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] URL-like label In-Reply-To: <4A3B6FBD.1123.10AEA44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <29f585dd0906190328qf18fad7m73dab8fd84093382@mail.gmail.com>, <4A3B6FBD.1123.10AEA44@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4A3B780D.21563.12B60F9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just played around with this a bit more. If you set the HyperlinkAddress of the inner label to a single space, the mouse pointer changes to a hand when over the label so you get the full "hyperlink experience" -- Stuart On 19 Jun 2009 at 21:00, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > You can use a label, format the text any way that you want and use its on_click event. > > If you want the link to change its appearance when you mouse over it (such as to change its > colour, make it underlined or whatever) you need to use two superimposed labels and the > MouseMove event. > > Create two labels, one slightly larger than the other. > Make the caption of the larger one empty > Put your link text in the smaller one (and colour it appropriately if so desired( > . > Make sure that the larger one is lower in the Z Order (create it first and/or use Format - > Send to back) > Centre the smaller label in the larger one so that there is an overlap all round. > > Then use the following event procedures: > (lblURL is the smaller label and lblURLClear is the larger one) > > Private Sub lblURL_MouseMove(Button As Integer, Shift As Integer, X As Single, Y As > Single) > lblURL.FontUnderline = True > End Sub > > Private Sub lblURL_Click() > DoCmd.OpenForm "frmLinkedForm" > End Sub > > Private Sub lblURLClear_MouseMove(Button As Integer, Shift As Integer, X As Single, Y As > Single) > lblURL.FontUnderline = False > End Sub > > -- > Stuart > > On 19 Jun 2009 at 6:28, Arthur Fuller wrote: > > > I'm sure I've done this but I cannot remember how and I can't find it in the > > list of controls. I thought that I could create a control that looks and > > acts like a typical web page reference to another page. In this case when > > it's clicked I want to open a form. I suppose I could use a button control, > > but I was sure there was another way. This is Access 2003. > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 19 07:32:32 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 05:32:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money thrown at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and now they are totally 'gun-shy'. I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 1:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Jim Well, you could tell the client that for the project to go off the rails it first has to be on the rails - which it obviously isn't and which will not going to happen if he doesn't allow his repareteur to act. /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 19-06-2009 06:10 >>> Thank you very much Stuart. Now that was simple so now I can resolve the cascading SubForm problem. Unfortunately, I can proceed no further for the moment as the client has not given me 'Carte blanche' to make any major changes... any changes for that matter as he is afraid the whole project will go off the rails like with the last programmer. ;-) Wouldn't you guess; there is no foreign key and data is incomplete... Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Jun 19 09:24:03 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:24:03 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <<< I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>> Hi Jim, Have a look: <<< Measure for Measure http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>> One comment below that webcast is guessing: "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a mixture of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Gustav: I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money thrown at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and now they are totally 'gun-shy'. I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) Jim __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4171 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 10:45:46 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:45:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Turn off security warnings Message-ID: <29f585dd0906190845r86e5b95l9860a1720dcb5078@mail.gmail.com> I forget how to turn off the security warnings that pop up when I open an Access 2003 database. Can someone remind me please? TIA, Arthur From john at winhaven.net Fri Jun 19 10:58:44 2009 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:58:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] duplicating a row In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000001c9f0f6$d2c69320$7853b960$@net> Hi Gustav, That's the problem, since A97 they've added all kinds of things I'll never use so I don't always catch the things I could use. I thought maybe someone here that was a bit more curious and ran across something and could answer this off the top of their head. If we don't ask these simple questions we could spend a lot of time looking for something that isn't there :o) John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] duplicating a row Hi John Maybe, though I don't think so, but how can we know? /gustav >>> john at winhaven.net 19-06-2009 02:23 >>> A thought just occurred to me that maybe there's a new, better way (or at least simpler) of duplicating a row in Access 2003. I've mostly just been reusing my code from A97. I need to duplicate the row without saving as two items will have to be changed in order to meet unique requirements. TIA John B. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Jun 19 11:01:19 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:01:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Turn off security warnings In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906190845r86e5b95l9860a1720dcb5078@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906190845r86e5b95l9860a1720dcb5078@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43AA1B4E1575469ABA90778A076EB608@danwaters> Tools | Macro | Security | Low -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 10:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Turn off security warnings I forget how to turn off the security warnings that pop up when I open an Access 2003 database. Can someone remind me please? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 19 11:05:48 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:05:48 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] duplicating a row Message-ID: Hi John But - that's what I tried to say - if you present us your code, I think your fellows members easily could list you any other method available. /gustav >>> john at winhaven.net 19-06-2009 17:58 >>> Hi Gustav, That's the problem, since A97 they've added all kinds of things I'll never use so I don't always catch the things I could use. I thought maybe someone here that was a bit more curious and ran across something and could answer this off the top of their head. If we don't ask these simple questions we could spend a lot of time looking for something that isn't there :o) John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] duplicating a row Hi John Maybe, though I don't think so, but how can we know? /gustav >>> john at winhaven.net 19-06-2009 02:23 >>> A thought just occurred to me that maybe there's a new, better way (or at least simpler) of duplicating a row in Access 2003. I've mostly just been reusing my code from A97. I need to duplicate the row without saving as two items will have to be changed in order to meet unique requirements. TIA John B. From cjlabs at worldnet.att.net Fri Jun 19 11:11:40 2009 From: cjlabs at worldnet.att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:11:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com><4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com><4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com><61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell><50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005><9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> Message-ID: I still haven't been able to get Access2000 to work. I've uninstalled Office2003, 2000 and 97 and then reinstalled them all. I've reinstalled WindowsXP SP3. Everything I check seems up to date. I have a laptop running Windows XP SP3 and Access2000 still works there. I have no idea what happened to my desktop -- literally one hour after working fine, Access would not open and nothing has changed that. It crashes during the Verifying system objects message in the bottom left of the window. Happens if I open an existing database or try to open a new database. If I try to open a new database using a wizard/template, it creates the new database, but then crashes when it goes to open the first form. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Kjos To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing This link is about a slightly different version - XP but it sounds like similar problem. Might be worth looking at. http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1094429.php The third post down has the solution that the original poster came to use..He attributed the problem to JET which maybe wouldn't have been reinstalled if you did a re-install if it thought it was already there. Here's the solution as posted. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Any way, if anyone else runs into this problem, let me tell you how I resolved the issue. I ran into a problem running another program and was able to get real useable information about that error. Realized the issue was with msjet40.dll. I tried using the file in the MS KB to upgrade the file, and it wouldn't work since I had installed XP SP 2. I decided to reinstall XP SP 2 and it reinstalled msjet40.dll. Now I can open files in access and in the other program." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ GK On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. > > Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). > > > Carolyn > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you > need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in > your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not > sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you > to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created > some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create > a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but > it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the > database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for > Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. > > All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are > installed. > > I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for > years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I > work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's > been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it > started crashing. > > On WindowsXP. > > > Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? > > > Thanks > Carolyn Johnson > St Louis, MO > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 11:24:18 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:24:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 Message-ID: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com> I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the Controls toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but apparently they are not installed. How can I fix this? TIA, Arthur From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Jun 19 11:32:47 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:32:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >How can I fix this? Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the Controls toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but apparently they are not installed. How can I fix this? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 11:36:33 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:36:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle Message-ID: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> I am opening a form and passing in an OpenArgs argument, then attempting to assign that value to a text control in the OnOpen event, but it isn't working. Is the OnOpen event the wrong place to do the assignment? TIA, Arthur From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 11:38:47 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:38:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Turn off security warnings In-Reply-To: <43AA1B4E1575469ABA90778A076EB608@danwaters> References: <29f585dd0906190845r86e5b95l9860a1720dcb5078@mail.gmail.com> <43AA1B4E1575469ABA90778A076EB608@danwaters> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906190938g47449132vd867dec3ff93a66c@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Dan! Arthur On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > Tools | Macro | Security | Low > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 11:42:16 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:42:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <98F679A1CD1B423BB99338EB5BED00A0@SusanOne> Oh Charlotte... u r killing me! ;) Charlotte's teaching me .NET -- now, there's nothing wrong with Charlotte's lessons, .NET's my problem. I spent 2 days chasing my tail on a simple exercise and Charlotte has been patient and understanding. Saying I hate .NET at the moment is too kind. Susan H. > >How can I fix this? > > Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > > I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the Controls > toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but apparently they are > not installed. How can I fix this? > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Jun 19 12:47:36 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:47:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: That should be the right place to manipulate the OpenArgs string and set the textbox. Post your code so we can see what might be happening. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle I am opening a form and passing in an OpenArgs argument, then attempting to assign that value to a text control in the OnOpen event, but it isn't working. Is the OnOpen event the wrong place to do the assignment? TIA, Arthur -- From jimdettman at verizon.net Fri Jun 19 12:49:36 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:49:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2D68D58A5FF242EEA5F36754DC91C7AB@XPS> Yes. Controls may or may not exist during the Open event. Either issue a Me.repaint to force creation of all controls or move the code to the OnLoad event. And FWIW, if you have multiple controls and/or arguments that you want to pass, I use a delimited string like this: "ADD;SETCTRLTODATA=txtCustomerID:" & NewData & ";EXITTOFORM=frmLoad" and call a routine like this: ' Set any controls required by calling form. varOpenArgs = Nz(frm.OpenArgs, "") If Not (varOpenArgs = "") Then var = glrGetTagFromString(varOpenArgs, "SETCTRLTODATA") If Not IsNull(var) Then Call SetControlsToData(frm, Mid$(var, 1)) End If and let's hope this message makes it to the list. Ones I sent yesterday never made it. Jim. Sub SetControlsToData(frm As Form, strData As String) ' Set controls on frm to values contained in strData. ' Delimiter is a ":". Format of strData is control name: value. Dim intPairNumber As Integer Dim varControlName As Variant Dim varData As Variant intPairNumber = 1 Do varControlName = dhExtractString(strData, intPairNumber, ":") If varControlName = "" Then Exit Do varData = dhExtractString(strData, intPairNumber + 1, ":") frm(varControlName) = varData intPairNumber = intPairNumber + 2 Loop End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle I am opening a form and passing in an OpenArgs argument, then attempting to assign that value to a text control in the OnOpen event, but it isn't working. Is the OnOpen event the wrong place to do the assignment? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 13:46:33 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:46:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle In-Reply-To: <2D68D58A5FF242EEA5F36754DC91C7AB@XPS> References: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> <2D68D58A5FF242EEA5F36754DC91C7AB@XPS> Message-ID: <4a3bdd0c.0707d00a.4a00.0a6b@mx.google.com> >> and let's hope this message makes it to the list. Ones I sent yesterday never made it. Yeah, they tend to block poor code...mine gets block all the time Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 19 June 2009 18:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle Yes. Controls may or may not exist during the Open event. Either issue a Me.repaint to force creation of all controls or move the code to the OnLoad event. And FWIW, if you have multiple controls and/or arguments that you want to pass, I use a delimited string like this: "ADD;SETCTRLTODATA=txtCustomerID:" & NewData & ";EXITTOFORM=frmLoad" and call a routine like this: ' Set any controls required by calling form. varOpenArgs = Nz(frm.OpenArgs, "") If Not (varOpenArgs = "") Then var = glrGetTagFromString(varOpenArgs, "SETCTRLTODATA") If Not IsNull(var) Then Call SetControlsToData(frm, Mid$(var, 1)) End If and let's hope this message makes it to the list. Ones I sent yesterday never made it. Jim. Sub SetControlsToData(frm As Form, strData As String) ' Set controls on frm to values contained in strData. ' Delimiter is a ":". Format of strData is control name: value. Dim intPairNumber As Integer Dim varControlName As Variant Dim varData As Variant intPairNumber = 1 Do varControlName = dhExtractString(strData, intPairNumber, ":") If varControlName = "" Then Exit Do varData = dhExtractString(strData, intPairNumber + 1, ":") frm(varControlName) = varData intPairNumber = intPairNumber + 2 Loop End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle I am opening a form and passing in an OpenArgs argument, then attempting to assign that value to a text control in the OnOpen event, but it isn't working. Is the OnOpen event the wrong place to do the assignment? TIA, Arthur -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jun 19 13:53:46 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:53:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions here... I could get lost here for a day or two. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms <<< I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>> Hi Jim, Have a look: <<< Measure for Measure http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>> One comment below that webcast is guessing: "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a mixture of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Gustav: I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money thrown at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and now they are totally 'gun-shy'. I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) Jim __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4171 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 14:01:03 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:01:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his mis-spelling.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Shamil: This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions here... I could get lost here for a day or two. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms <<< I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>> Hi Jim, Have a look: <<< Measure for Measure http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>> One comment below that webcast is guessing: "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a mixture of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Gustav: I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money thrown at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and now they are totally 'gun-shy'. I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) Jim __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4171 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 19 14:54:45 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:54:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com> <98F679A1CD1B423BB99338EB5BED00A0@SusanOne> Message-ID: <6E8440D7489943F7A28F05F659F5E306@jislaptopdev> ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted ...but net, it lets you do so much that Access can't ...once you learn net, going back to Access is like riding your bike after dad gave you the keys to the car. ...imnsho, of course William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:42 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > Oh Charlotte... u r killing me! ;) > > Charlotte's teaching me .NET -- now, there's nothing wrong with > Charlotte's > lessons, .NET's my problem. I spent 2 days chasing my tail on a simple > exercise and Charlotte has been patient and understanding. > > Saying I hate .NET at the moment is too kind. > > Susan H. > > >> >How can I fix this? >> >> Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. >> >> Charlotte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 >> >> I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the Controls >> toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but apparently they are >> not installed. How can I fix this? >> TIA, >> Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 19 15:00:04 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:00:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru><222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little room ...have you tried Russian lately? ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his > mis-spelling.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Shamil: > > This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions > here... I could get lost here for a day or two. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > <<< > I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>> > Hi Jim, > > Have a look: > > <<< > Measure for Measure > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>> > > One comment below that webcast is guessing: > > "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a > mixture > of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Gustav: > > I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money > thrown > at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was > not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and > now they are totally 'gun-shy'. > > I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the > physcritist. ;-) > > Jim > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4171 (20090619) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Jun 19 15:02:13 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:02:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789AC@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Sometimes, it's just nice to go for a bike ride though. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted ...but net, it lets you do so much that Access can't ...once you learn net, going back to Access is like riding your bike after dad gave you the keys to the car. ...imnsho, of course William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:42 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > Oh Charlotte... u r killing me! ;) > > Charlotte's teaching me .NET -- now, there's nothing wrong with > Charlotte's lessons, .NET's my problem. I spent 2 days chasing my tail > on a simple exercise and Charlotte has been patient and understanding. > > Saying I hate .NET at the moment is too kind. > > Susan H. > > >> >How can I fix this? >> >> Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. >> >> Charlotte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur >> Fuller >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 >> >> I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the >> Controls toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but >> apparently they are not installed. How can I fix this? >> TIA, >> Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 15:07:22 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:07:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru><222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a3beffe.0707d00a.5b75.222f@mx.google.com> Oooh, that IS good....touche' Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 19 June 2009 21:00 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little room ...have you tried Russian lately? ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his > mis-spelling.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Shamil: > > This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions > here... I could get lost here for a day or two. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > <<< > I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>> > Hi Jim, > > Have a look: > > <<< > Measure for Measure > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>> > > One comment below that webcast is guessing: > > "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a > mixture > of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Gustav: > > I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money > thrown > at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was > not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and > now they are totally 'gun-shy'. > > I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the > physcritist. ;-) > > Jim > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4171 (20090619) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 15:11:33 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:11:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789AC@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789AC@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4a3bf103.1701d00a.5b42.0b9a@mx.google.com> Yeah, but .net is putting the playing card in the spokes... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: 19 June 2009 21:02 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 Sometimes, it's just nice to go for a bike ride though. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted ...but net, it lets you do so much that Access can't ...once you learn net, going back to Access is like riding your bike after dad gave you the keys to the car. ...imnsho, of course William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:42 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > Oh Charlotte... u r killing me! ;) > > Charlotte's teaching me .NET -- now, there's nothing wrong with > Charlotte's lessons, .NET's my problem. I spent 2 days chasing my tail > on a simple exercise and Charlotte has been patient and understanding. > > Saying I hate .NET at the moment is too kind. > > Susan H. > > >> >How can I fix this? >> >> Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. >> >> Charlotte >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur >> Fuller >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 >> >> I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the >> Controls toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but >> apparently they are not installed. How can I fix this? >> TIA, >> Arthur >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Jun 19 15:23:22 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:23:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789AC@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4a3bf103.1701d00a.5b42.0b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9911954E874E45108EC702EB678C967B@Mattys> The seat could use a bit more padding! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > Yeah, but .net is putting the playing card in the spokes... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com > Sent: 19 June 2009 21:02 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > > Sometimes, it's just nice to go for a bike ride though. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > > ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted ...but net, it lets you > do > so much that Access can't ...once you learn net, going back to Access is > like riding your bike after dad gave you the keys to the car. > ...imnsho, of course > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Susan Harkins" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:42 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > >> Oh Charlotte... u r killing me! ;) >> >> Charlotte's teaching me .NET -- now, there's nothing wrong with >> Charlotte's lessons, .NET's my problem. I spent 2 days chasing my tail >> on a simple exercise and Charlotte has been patient and understanding. >> >> Saying I hate .NET at the moment is too kind. >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> >How can I fix this? >>> >>> Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. >>> >>> Charlotte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur >>> Fuller >>> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 >>> >>> I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the >>> Controls toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but >>> apparently they are not installed. How can I fix this? >>> TIA, >>> Arthur >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 15:31:24 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 21:31:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <9911954E874E45108EC702EB678C967B@Mattys> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789AC@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4a3bf103.1701d00a.5b42.0b9a@mx.google.com> <9911954E874E45108EC702EB678C967B@Mattys> Message-ID: <4a3bf5a0.0506d00a.4324.1351@mx.google.com> Lazy,,,stand up... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike Mattys Sent: 19 June 2009 21:23 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 The seat could use a bit more padding! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:11 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > Yeah, but .net is putting the playing card in the spokes... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com > Sent: 19 June 2009 21:02 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > > Sometimes, it's just nice to go for a bike ride though. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > > ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted ...but net, it lets you > do > so much that Access can't ...once you learn net, going back to Access is > like riding your bike after dad gave you the keys to the car. > ...imnsho, of course > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Susan Harkins" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 12:42 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > >> Oh Charlotte... u r killing me! ;) >> >> Charlotte's teaching me .NET -- now, there's nothing wrong with >> Charlotte's lessons, .NET's my problem. I spent 2 days chasing my tail >> on a simple exercise and Charlotte has been patient and understanding. >> >> Saying I hate .NET at the moment is too kind. >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> >How can I fix this? >>> >>> Switch to .Net? LOL It is Friday, after all. >>> >>> Charlotte >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur >>> Fuller >>> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:24 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 >>> >>> I just did a re-install of Access 2003 and now I find that the >>> Controls toolbar has a button on it for Control Wizards but >>> apparently they are not installed. How can I fix this? >>> TIA, >>> Arthur >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Jun 19 17:01:03 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 02:01:03 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru><222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> Hi William and Max, Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry just to have it quoted "as is". He meant "psychiatrist" of course. Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep one busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little room ...have you tried Russian lately? ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his > mis-spelling.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Shamil: > > This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions > here... I could get lost here for a day or two. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > <<< > I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>> > Hi Jim, > > Have a look: > > <<< > Measure for Measure > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>> > > One comment below that webcast is guessing: > > "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a > mixture > of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Gustav: > > I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money > thrown > at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was > not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and > now they are totally 'gun-shy'. > > I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the > physcritist. ;-) > > Jim > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4172 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 17:07:45 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:07:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789AC@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4a3bf103.1701d00a.5b42.0b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4ADD3B3EA2F647F994E39418BA529F8F@SusanOne> .NET feels like someone took the training wheels off too soon. :) Susan H. > Yeah, but .net is putting the playing card in the spokes... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jun 19 17:27:57 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:27:57 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 In-Reply-To: <6E8440D7489943F7A28F05F659F5E306@jislaptopdev> References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com>, <6E8440D7489943F7A28F05F659F5E306@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A3C10ED.19822.3808C97@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Just because I drive a car doesn't mean I can't enjoy mountain biking :-) And if I'm only going to the shop round the corner, it's easier to jump on my bike than get the car out of the garage. On 19 Jun 2009 at 15:54, William Hindman wrote: > ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted > ...but net, it lets you do so much that Access can't > ...once you learn net, going back to Access is like riding your bike after > dad gave you the keys to the car. > ...imnsho, of course > > William From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 19 17:37:00 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:37:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com>, <6E8440D7489943F7A28F05F659F5E306@jislaptopdev> <4A3C10ED.19822.3808C97@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <54F7C26F619A4B18834D8C6210593A0F@jislaptopdev> ...couldn't agree more :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stuart McLachlan" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 6:27 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Control Wizards Missing in Access 2003 > Just because I drive a car doesn't mean I can't enjoy mountain biking :-) > > And if I'm only going to the shop round the corner, it's easier to jump on > my bike than get > the car out of the garage. > > > > On 19 Jun 2009 at 15:54, William Hindman wrote: > >> ...Access does so much for you, you get addicted >> ...but net, it lets you do so much that Access can't >> ...once you learn net, going back to Access is like riding your bike >> after >> dad gave you the keys to the car. >> ...imnsho, of course >> >> William > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jun 17 07:06:08 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:06:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures In-Reply-To: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A380DF4.6030603@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1C0F36B4A3B341BC81BC7CB441D51C2D@XPS> John, FWIW, you might want to check this out: ACC2000: How to Trap Specific ODBC Error Messages http://support.microsoft.com/kb/209855 but you may already be doing this (using the errors collection) as you mentioned seeing two ODBC errors. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Trap ODBC failures How do you trap ODBC failures? For example an index prevents a record being added to a form, I get an ODBC error message (actually two) but it doesn't seem to be occurring in code that I can break into and trap the error. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jun 20 07:43:02 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:43:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised In-Reply-To: <54F7C26F619A4B18834D8C6210593A0F@jislaptopdev> References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com>, <54F7C26F619A4B18834D8C6210593A0F@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A3CD956.6768.68F6588@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I've been doing quite a bit with arrays in the last couple of days using .... ReDim Preserve myArray(UBound(MyArray()) +1) .... This works fine it the array has been initialized, but throws an error the first time round because the array has not been initialized. I've just come across a neat hack to test whether the array has been initialized: "IF NOT NOT myArray()" ... This takes the 32-bit pointer value in the array variable, mirror the bits, and then mirror them again. If the array has not been initialized, the pointer is 0 so it returns false, if it has been, it returns the pointer value. Since this is non-zero, it returns true. -- Stuart From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 08:28:47 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 09:28:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] duplicating a row In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0906200628p24512b10l35c03aed434bda17@mail.gmail.com> Here's a function that I use for this purpose: Public Function aaDuplicate(frm As Form) On Error GoTo Err_aaDuplicate DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSelectRecord DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdCopy DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdPasteAppend MsgBox "Change the name, date etc.", vbInformation, "Duplicate Record" Exit_aaDuplicate: Exit Function Err_aaDuplicate: MsgBox Err.Description Resume Exit_aaDuplicate End Function Note that the function expects the form to be passed in as a form, not a string. You can achieve this by passing Me in. HTH, Arthur From Gustav at cactus.dk Sat Jun 20 08:29:16 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:29:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised Message-ID: Hi Stuart Does that work with A97? If I run this: Dim aryDemo() Debug.Print Not Not aryDemo() an error (mismatch) is raised. I use this function for the purpose which just catches the error: Public Function IsReDimmed(ByRef varArrayToCheck) As Boolean ' Checks a dynamic array to see if it has been ReDim'med. ' This is to prevent errors before applying LBound() or UBound(). ' ' Returns False if varArrayToCheck is dynamic and ' never has been ReDim'med or just has been erased. ' ' 2001-08-11. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Gustav Brock. Dim booIsReDimmed As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsReDimmed If IsArray(varArrayToCheck) = True Then ' Check if varArrayToCheck is ReDim'med. ' LBound() will fail if varArrayToCheck not has been ReDim'med. booIsReDimmed = LBound(varArrayToCheck) Imp True ' No error raised; varArrayToCheck is ReDim'med. Else ' varArrayToCheck is not an array. End If IsReDimmed = booIsReDimmed Exit_IsReDimmed: Exit Function Err_IsReDimmed: Select Case Err Case 9 ' Subscript (array index) out of range. ' varArrayToCheck is dynamic and not ReDim'med. Case Else ' Other error. End Select ' Exit function returning False. Resume Exit_IsReDimmed End Function Note the use of Imp, one of the few cases I've found a use for this operator. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 20-06-2009 14:43:02 >>> I've been doing quite a bit with arrays in the last couple of days using .... ReDim Preserve myArray(UBound(MyArray()) +1) .... This works fine it the array has been initialized, but throws an error the first time round because the array has not been initialized. I've just come across a neat hack to test whether the array has been initialized: "IF NOT NOT myArray()" ... This takes the 32-bit pointer value in the array variable, mirror the bits, and then mirror them again. If the array has not been initialized, the pointer is 0 so it returns false, if it has been, it returns the pointer value. Since this is non-zero, it returns true. -- Stuart From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jun 20 08:37:38 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:37:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3CE622.25203.6C16319@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I don't know. I've only got one site still using A97 and I don't have it installed here. I will check it out next week. -- Stuart On 20 Jun 2009 at 15:29, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Stuart > > Does that work with A97? If I run this: > > Dim aryDemo() > Debug.Print Not Not aryDemo() > > an error (mismatch) is raised. > From adtp at airtelmail.in Sat Jun 20 13:13:18 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 23:43:18 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised References: Message-ID: <007501c9f1d3$18ec69b0$1e5fa27a@personald6374f> Gustav, Stuart, The function given below could also be considered: '================================ Function Fn_IsArrayInitialized(ByVal varArray _ As Variant) As Boolean On Error Resume Next Fn_IsArrayInitialized = _ Not IsError(UBound(varArray) >= 0) End Function '================================ Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 18:59 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised Hi Stuart Does that work with A97? If I run this: Dim aryDemo() Debug.Print Not Not aryDemo() an error (mismatch) is raised. I use this function for the purpose which just catches the error: Public Function IsReDimmed(ByRef varArrayToCheck) As Boolean ' Checks a dynamic array to see if it has been ReDim'med. ' This is to prevent errors before applying LBound() or UBound(). ' ' Returns False if varArrayToCheck is dynamic and ' never has been ReDim'med or just has been erased. ' ' 2001-08-11. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Gustav Brock. Dim booIsReDimmed As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsReDimmed If IsArray(varArrayToCheck) = True Then ' Check if varArrayToCheck is ReDim'med. ' LBound() will fail if varArrayToCheck not has been ReDim'med. booIsReDimmed = LBound(varArrayToCheck) Imp True ' No error raised; varArrayToCheck is ReDim'med. Else ' varArrayToCheck is not an array. End If IsReDimmed = booIsReDimmed Exit_IsReDimmed: Exit Function Err_IsReDimmed: Select Case Err Case 9 ' Subscript (array index) out of range. ' varArrayToCheck is dynamic and not ReDim'med. Case Else ' Other error. End Select ' Exit function returning False. Resume Exit_IsReDimmed End Function Note the use of Imp, one of the few cases I've found a use for this operator. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 20-06-2009 14:43:02 >>> I've been doing quite a bit with arrays in the last couple of days using .... ReDim Preserve myArray(UBound(MyArray()) +1) .... This works fine it the array has been initialized, but throws an error the first time round because the array has not been initialized. I've just come across a neat hack to test whether the array has been initialized: "IF NOT NOT myArray()" ... This takes the 32-bit pointer value in the array variable, mirror the bits, and then mirror them again. If the array has not been initialized, the pointer is 0 so it returns false, if it has been, it returns the pointer value. Since this is non-zero, it returns true. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 20 14:06:04 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:06:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi William and Max, Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry just to have it quoted "as is". He meant "psychiatrist" of course. Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep one busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little room ...have you tried Russian lately? ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his > mis-spelling.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Shamil: > > This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions > here... I could get lost here for a day or two. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > <<< > I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>> > Hi Jim, > > Have a look: > > <<< > Measure for Measure > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>> > > One comment below that webcast is guessing: > > "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a > mixture > of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Gustav: > > I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money > thrown > at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was > not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and > now they are totally 'gun-shy'. > > I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the > physcritist. ;-) > > Jim > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4172 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 20 14:16:21 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 20:16:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> Hi Shamil, Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi William and Max, Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry just to have it quoted "as is". He meant "psychiatrist" of course. Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep one busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little room ...have you tried Russian lately? ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his > mis-spelling.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Shamil: > > This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions > here... I could get lost here for a day or two. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > <<< > I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>> > Hi Jim, > > Have a look: > > <<< > Measure for Measure > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>> > > One comment below that webcast is guessing: > > "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a > mixture > of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Gustav: > > I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money > thrown > at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was > not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and > now they are totally 'gun-shy'. > > I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the > physcritist. ;-) > > Jim > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4172 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 20 14:20:40 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:20:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this list are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are slow to learn new tricks. The only way any us have become ASPX masters is not by paddling around in the shallow end, it is by being thrown off the high driving at the deep end. ...and that usually required the intervention of a couple of burly gentlemen accompanied with a lot of kicking and screaming. ;-) Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 20 14:21:46 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:21:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised In-Reply-To: <4A3CD956.6768.68F6588@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <29f585dd0906190924u18fc01dfp2e8335a44b78c16b@mail.gmail.com> <54F7C26F619A4B18834D8C6210593A0F@jislaptopdev> <4A3CD956.6768.68F6588@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <39938F916F514BAEAE32FF8402AD0D0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> You are brilliant Stuart. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised I've been doing quite a bit with arrays in the last couple of days using .... ReDim Preserve myArray(UBound(MyArray()) +1) .... This works fine it the array has been initialized, but throws an error the first time round because the array has not been initialized. I've just come across a neat hack to test whether the array has been initialized: "IF NOT NOT myArray()" ... This takes the 32-bit pointer value in the array variable, mirror the bits, and then mirror them again. If the array has not been initialized, the pointer is 0 so it returns false, if it has been, it returns the pointer value. Since this is non-zero, it returns true. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 20 14:23:53 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:23:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised In-Reply-To: <007501c9f1d3$18ec69b0$1e5fa27a@personald6374f> References: <007501c9f1d3$18ec69b0$1e5fa27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: Hi A.D. Tejpal: Now that works perfect in every case... Good thought. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised Gustav, Stuart, The function given below could also be considered: '================================ Function Fn_IsArrayInitialized(ByVal varArray _ As Variant) As Boolean On Error Resume Next Fn_IsArrayInitialized = _ Not IsError(UBound(varArray) >= 0) End Function '================================ Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 18:59 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised Hi Stuart Does that work with A97? If I run this: Dim aryDemo() Debug.Print Not Not aryDemo() an error (mismatch) is raised. I use this function for the purpose which just catches the error: Public Function IsReDimmed(ByRef varArrayToCheck) As Boolean ' Checks a dynamic array to see if it has been ReDim'med. ' This is to prevent errors before applying LBound() or UBound(). ' ' Returns False if varArrayToCheck is dynamic and ' never has been ReDim'med or just has been erased. ' ' 2001-08-11. Cactus Data ApS, CPH. Gustav Brock. Dim booIsReDimmed As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_IsReDimmed If IsArray(varArrayToCheck) = True Then ' Check if varArrayToCheck is ReDim'med. ' LBound() will fail if varArrayToCheck not has been ReDim'med. booIsReDimmed = LBound(varArrayToCheck) Imp True ' No error raised; varArrayToCheck is ReDim'med. Else ' varArrayToCheck is not an array. End If IsReDimmed = booIsReDimmed Exit_IsReDimmed: Exit Function Err_IsReDimmed: Select Case Err Case 9 ' Subscript (array index) out of range. ' varArrayToCheck is dynamic and not ReDim'med. Case Else ' Other error. End Select ' Exit function returning False. Resume Exit_IsReDimmed End Function Note the use of Imp, one of the few cases I've found a use for this operator. /gustav >>> stuart at lexacorp.com.pg 20-06-2009 14:43:02 >>> I've been doing quite a bit with arrays in the last couple of days using .... ReDim Preserve myArray(UBound(MyArray()) +1) .... This works fine it the array has been initialized, but throws an error the first time round because the array has not been initialized. I've just come across a neat hack to test whether the array has been initialized: "IF NOT NOT myArray()" ... This takes the 32-bit pointer value in the array variable, mirror the bits, and then mirror them again. If the array has not been initialized, the pointer is 0 so it returns false, if it has been, it returns the pointer value. Since this is non-zero, it returns true. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 20 14:26:09 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 12:26:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sorry guys but it is hard to type with 'painty fingers' and the MS spelling AI isn't. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Shamil, Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi William and Max, Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry just to have it quoted "as is". He meant "psychiatrist" of course. Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep one busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little room ...have you tried Russian lately? ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his > mis-spelling.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Shamil: > > This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions > here... I could get lost here for a day or two. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > <<< > I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>> > Hi Jim, > > Have a look: > > <<< > Measure for Measure > http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>> > > One comment below that webcast is guessing: > > "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a > mixture > of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi Gustav: > > I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money > thrown > at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was > not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and > now they are totally 'gun-shy'. > > I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the > physcritist. ;-) > > Jim > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4172 (20090619) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 20 21:51:42 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:51:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com><000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru><222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com><4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com><9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev><001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <410DECF44FB44999A38688F25340F06E@jislaptopdev> ...Well no, I'm not ...I'm direct from AccessD where nothing is safe "OR" sacred, eh ...especially your "painty" fingers ...you painty waste, you :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:06 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of > sacred. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi William and Max, > > Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) > > I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry > just to have it quoted "as is". > He meant "psychiatrist" of course. > > Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep > one > busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little > room > ...have you tried Russian lately? > ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > >> ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his >> mis-spelling.... >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> Hi Shamil: >> >> This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions >> here... I could get lost here for a day or two. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >> Salakhetdinov >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> <<< >> I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>>> >> Hi Jim, >> >> Have a look: >> >> <<< >> Measure for Measure >> http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>>> >> >> One comment below that webcast is guessing: >> >> "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a >> mixture >> of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> Hi Gustav: >> >> I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money >> thrown >> at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was >> not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and >> now they are totally 'gun-shy'. >> >> I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the >> physcritist. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> >> > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4172 (20090619) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 20 21:54:07 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:54:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru><6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4FFDC43EFE5143578D8713C48EF40CD7@jislaptopdev> ...is THAT where we're sending all those guys from Guantanamo? ...nice crowd you pal with, eh :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:16 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > Hi Shamil, > > Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of > realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of > sacred. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi William and Max, > > Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) > > I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry > just to have it quoted "as is". > He meant "psychiatrist" of course. > > Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep > one > busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little > room > ...have you tried Russian lately? > ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > >> ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his >> mis-spelling.... >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> Hi Shamil: >> >> This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions >> here... I could get lost here for a day or two. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >> Salakhetdinov >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> <<< >> I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>>> >> Hi Jim, >> >> Have a look: >> >> <<< >> Measure for Measure >> http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>>> >> >> One comment below that webcast is guessing: >> >> "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a >> mixture >> of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> Hi Gustav: >> >> I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money >> thrown >> at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was >> not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and >> now they are totally 'gun-shy'. >> >> I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the >> physcritist. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> >> > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4172 (20090619) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 20 21:58:03 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 22:58:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com><000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <22A12B344D224F6B8549E83FFAC26D73@jislaptopdev> ...I did NOT kick or scream! ...it is difficult to do either when being thrown off a high dive into the deep end with weights tied around your feet and your mouth taped. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:20 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net > The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this > list > are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are > slow > to learn new tricks. > > The only way any us have become ASPX masters is not by paddling around in > the shallow end, it is by being thrown off the high driving at the deep > end. > ...and that usually required the intervention of a couple of burly > gentlemen > accompanied with a lot of kicking and screaming. ;-) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at airtelmail.in Sat Jun 20 22:43:23 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 09:13:23 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised References: <007501c9f1d3$18ec69b0$1e5fa27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: <002b01c9f222$a6fba7d0$b060a27a@personald6374f> Thanks Jim! - for the corroborative confirmation. So nice of you. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 00:53 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised Hi A.D. Tejpal: Now that works perfect in every case... Good thought. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test whether Array initialised Gustav, Stuart, The function given below could also be considered: '================================ Function Fn_IsArrayInitialized(ByVal varArray _ As Variant) As Boolean On Error Resume Next Fn_IsArrayInitialized = _ Not IsError(UBound(varArray) >= 0) End Function '================================ Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sun Jun 21 02:46:54 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:46:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4FFDC43EFE5143578D8713C48EF40CD7@jislaptopdev> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru><6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> <4FFDC43EFE5143578D8713C48EF40CD7@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a3de574.1c07d00a.4828.ffff86b1@mx.google.com> It's where naughty boys go...your very close...you are on the naught step right now...one false word and.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 21 June 2009 03:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms ...is THAT where we're sending all those guys from Guantanamo? ...nice crowd you pal with, eh :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:16 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > Hi Shamil, > > Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of > realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... > > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of > sacred. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > Hi William and Max, > > Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) > > I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry > just to have it quoted "as is". > He meant "psychiatrist" of course. > > Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep > one > busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > > ...jc I'd have nailed asap ...but Shamil, you have to give him a little > room > ...have you tried Russian lately? > ...its almost as bad as what the Brits keep claiming is English :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > >> ....and I am still thinking of a smart comment to come up with for his >> mis-spelling.... >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: 19 June 2009 19:54 >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> Hi Shamil: >> >> This is a really great link as there are so many excellent discussions >> here... I could get lost here for a day or two. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil >> Salakhetdinov >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:24 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> <<< >> I just have to be the programmer and not the physcritist. ;-) >>>>> >> Hi Jim, >> >> Have a look: >> >> <<< >> Measure for Measure >> http://www.infoq.com/presentations/measure-for-measure >>>>> >> >> One comment below that webcast is guessing: >> >> "...the future REAL computer science. Maybe it will be compound by a >> mixture >> of mathematics, sociology and programmers' psychology ;-" >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:33 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms >> >> Hi Gustav: >> >> I think the client is concerned that there was a bucket load of money >> thrown >> at this project and the application is still barely operational... It was >> not my project but it is like someone who went through a bad marriage and >> now they are totally 'gun-shy'. >> >> I like projects more when I just have to be the programmer and not the >> physcritist. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> >> > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4172 (20090619) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 21 20:38:25 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:38:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A3EE091.2080206@colbyconsulting.com> Right place. Search the archives for my class for doing this. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Arthur Fuller wrote: > I am opening a form and passing in an OpenArgs argument, then attempting to > assign that value to a text control in the OnOpen event, but it isn't > working. Is the OnOpen event the wrong place to do the assignment? > TIA, > Arthur From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Sun Jun 21 21:53:39 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:53:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFF8@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> hahaha! yeah... Have to agree - nothing like a looming deadline and a grumpy client to get one motivated on these things. As for VBA and Access - I feel MS Access 2007 is now seriously wounded as a development platform. Is is becoming just a ballsy spreadsheet with data integrity for power users - rather then the seriously useful beastie it was. I think the future for what we do is much more SQL Server BE with ASP.Net browser based FE (coded in C# no less) - and I am busy learning those skills right now. Yep, the learning curve seems steep, but I am confident it will be all worth it. VBA is a dying language IMHO, I feel sad about that, but it seem to be true. just my thoughts Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Sunday, 21 June 2009 5:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this list are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are slow to learn new tricks. The only way any us have become ASPX masters is not by paddling around in the shallow end, it is by being thrown off the high driving at the deep end. ...and that usually required the intervention of a couple of burly gentlemen accompanied with a lot of kicking and screaming. ;-) Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Sun Jun 21 22:00:51 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:00:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OpenArgs Puzzle In-Reply-To: <4A3EE091.2080206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <29f585dd0906190936mbd3192fycb8e5beb40a94e54@mail.gmail.com> <4A3EE091.2080206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906212000t687485afkedb8d49d18ff29@mail.gmail.com> I found the problem. I moved the line of code from OnOpen to OnCurrent and the problem went away. Yay! JC, I will look at your class tomorrow. I have one situation in which I want to pass several variables in. I'm thinking that I'll go with that class you created to parse the OpenArgs string and set the form properties from there. A. On Sun, Jun 21, 2009 at 9:38 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Right place. Search the archives for my class for doing this. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > > I am opening a form and passing in an OpenArgs argument, then attempting > to > > assign that value to a text control in the OnOpen event, but it isn't > > working. Is the OnOpen event the wrong place to do the assignment? > > TIA, > > Arthur > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Mon Jun 22 03:46:19 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:46:19 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Message-ID: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. The database is used to track stock for a number of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location Most of the record sources are stored procedures that combine multiple tables (the extra tables are for sorting the records - for example a products table is joined to the inventory table so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). I have the unique tables set where I can, and the I am getting a "write conflict - This record has been changed by another user " error when I try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous form. I have tried Googling. The main solution is to include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 04:07:45 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:07:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away the previous edit you made on the same machine. I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. The database is used to track stock for a number of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location Most of the record sources are stored procedures that combine multiple tables (the extra tables are for sorting the records - for example a products table is joined to the inventory table so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). I have the unique tables set where I can, and the I am getting a "write conflict - This record has been changed by another user . " error when I try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous form. I have tried Googling. The main solution is to include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 04:54:55 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 05:54:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906220254v780793f3g4b319ec9ac89cd48@mail.gmail.com> Something else that you may want to try, David -- replace the stored procedure with a view that does the same Select and then try to edit the same row twice. A. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 5:07 AM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away > the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > The database is used to track stock for a number > of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > Most of the record sources are stored procedures > that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > are for sorting the records - for example a > products table is joined to the inventory table > so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > been changed by another user . " error when I > try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > form. > > I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 22 07:34:53 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:34:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Message-ID: <380-2200961221234539@M2W017.mail2web.com> David: I had this problem recently with an Access FE/BE. The problem occurred on a subform which had as its record source a query which included a table that was also included in the record source of the main form. IIRC, the solution turned out to be requerying the main form from the subform. But I don't know if your app has the same condition. HTH Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: David Emerson newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:46:19 +1200 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. The database is used to track stock for a number of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location Most of the record sources are stored procedures that combine multiple tables (the extra tables are for sorting the records - for example a products table is joined to the inventory table so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). I have the unique tables set where I can, and the I am getting a "write conflict - This record has been changed by another user " error when I try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous form. I have tried Googling. The main solution is to include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 09:03:29 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:03:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for SAP - HR Payroll Analyst Message-ID: <80EAD51876EB42EF8BFFA4C0325A719A@SusanOne> If you have the skills to fill this position or know someone who does, please send me a resume. Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Jun 22 10:20:37 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:20:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com><000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hey, who are you calling OLD?? I spent 20 odd years mastering Access and I can't even spell ASPX reliably. But I like VB.Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this list are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are slow to learn new tricks. The only way any us have become ASPX masters is not by paddling around in the shallow end, it is by being thrown off the high driving at the deep end. ...and that usually required the intervention of a couple of burly gentlemen accompanied with a lot of kicking and screaming. ;-) Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 10:44:48 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 08:44:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <7C11DC319B8149D2A418868063974956@creativesystemdesigns.com> Ha ha ha... Your hardly old but my percepts are hardly new... If you know how long I spent on solving a problem which ended with the phrase... "Oh my God is it really that simple"... and I am lead to ask the question would it have taken this long to solve the problem 20plus years ago? I just to raised a flag and see how many saluted. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey, who are you calling OLD?? I spent 20 odd years mastering Access and I can't even spell ASPX reliably. But I like VB.Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this list are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are slow to learn new tricks. The only way any us have become ASPX masters is not by paddling around in the shallow end, it is by being thrown off the high driving at the deep end. ...and that usually required the intervention of a couple of burly gentlemen accompanied with a lot of kicking and screaming. ;-) Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Jun 22 11:21:28 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:21:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <7C11DC319B8149D2A418868063974956@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com><000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru><9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7C11DC319B8149D2A418868063974956@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I'm old and I've worked hard to get there! Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Ha ha ha... Your hardly old but my percepts are hardly new... If you know how long I spent on solving a problem which ended with the phrase... "Oh my God is it really that simple"... and I am lead to ask the question would it have taken this long to solve the problem 20plus years ago? I just to raised a flag and see how many saluted. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 8:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey, who are you calling OLD?? I spent 20 odd years mastering Access and I can't even spell ASPX reliably. But I like VB.Net. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this list are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are slow to learn new tricks. The only way any us have become ASPX masters is not by paddling around in the shallow end, it is by being thrown off the high driving at the deep end. ...and that usually required the intervention of a couple of burly gentlemen accompanied with a lot of kicking and screaming. ;-) Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 11:37:57 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:37:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) PHP Plusses: * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! These features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no changes under Linux/Apache. PHP Drawbacks: * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, use something else. * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. -Ken > The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on this list > are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, are slow > to learn new tricks. > ... > Jim From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 11:48:17 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:48:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 11:51:15 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:51:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7C11DC319B8149D2A418868063974956@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906220951w67eb6318v89e90ee1145e5b8f@mail.gmail.com> It's astonishing how quickly one turns from a young Turk into an old Fart. Bloddy L. In the words of William Burroughs, "If I'd only known I would live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself." A. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > I'm old and I've worked hard to get there! > > Charlotte > > From kismert at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 12:14:01 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:14:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: <7c7841600906221014y27bed91ax2e8ec909da3d3f27@mail.gmail.com> Btw, thanks Art, your article was quite helpful in getting me started with IIS/PHP: Configuring PHP with MySQL for Apache 2 or IIS in Windows http://www.artfulsoftware.com/php_mysql_win.html#Installing_PHP -Ken >Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit > www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). > Arthur From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 12:27:04 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:27:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906220951w67eb6318v89e90ee1145e5b8f@mail.gmail.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <9A05D452CA53401690B174B213921B9A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <7C11DC319B8149D2A418868063974956@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29f585dd0906220951w67eb6318v89e90ee1145e5b8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5AA29A37479949D59B3A111E93E96336@creativesystemdesigns.com> A toast for William Burroughs... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net It's astonishing how quickly one turns from a young Turk into an old Fart. Bloddy L. In the words of William Burroughs, "If I'd only known I would live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself." A. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > I'm old and I've worked hard to get there! > > Charlotte > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 13:01:11 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 11:01:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 13:07:03 2009 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:07:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing In-Reply-To: References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com> <4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com> <4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com> <61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell> <50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005> <9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> Message-ID: Sorry you didn't get a solution. Perhaps a wipe the hard drive and reload Windows is called for since that was a critical application for you. Or maybe you would be able to use a Virtual PC type of a setup? On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > I still haven't been able to get Access2000 to work. ? I've uninstalled Office2003, 2000 and 97 and then reinstalled them all. ?I've reinstalled WindowsXP SP3. ? Everything I check seems up to date. > > I have a laptop running Windows XP SP3 and Access2000 still works there. ?I have no idea what happened to my desktop -- literally one hour after working fine, Access would not open and nothing has changed that. > > > It crashes during the Verifying system objects message in the bottom left of the window. ? Happens if I open an existing database or try to open a new database. ?If I try to open a new database using a wizard/template, it creates the new database, but then crashes when it goes to open the first form. > > > Carolyn Johnson > > ?----- Original Message ----- > ?From: Gary Kjos > ?To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > ?Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:06 AM > ?Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > ?This link is about a slightly different version - XP but it sounds > ?like similar problem. Might be worth looking at. > > ?http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1094429.php > > ?The third post down has the solution that the original poster came to > ?use..He attributed the problem to JET which maybe wouldn't have been > ?reinstalled if you did a re-install if it thought it was already > ?there. ?Here's the solution as posted. > > ?------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ?"Any way, if anyone else runs into this problem, let me tell you how I > ?resolved the issue. I ran into a problem running another program and > ?was able to get real useable information about that error. Realized > ?the issue was with msjet40.dll. I tried using the file in the MS KB > ?to upgrade the file, and it wouldn't work since I had installed XP SP > ?2. I decided to reinstall XP SP 2 and it reinstalled msjet40.dll. > ?Now I can open files in access and in the other program." > > ?------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ?GK > > > > > ?On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > ?> I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. > ?> > ?> Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). > ?> > ?> > ?> Carolyn > ?> > ?> > ?> > ?> ----- Original Message ----- > ?> From: Rocky Smolin > ?> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > ?> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM > ?> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > ?> > ?> > ?> The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you > ?> need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in > ?> your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not > ?> sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you > ?> to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created > ?> some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? > ?> > ?> Rocky > ?> > ?> > ?> -----Original Message----- > ?> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > ?> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson > ?> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > ?> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > ?> Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > ?> > ?> Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create > ?> a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but > ?> it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the > ?> database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for > ?> Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. > ?> > ?> All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are > ?> installed. > ?> > ?> I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for > ?> years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I > ?> work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's > ?> been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it > ?> started crashing. > ?> > ?> On WindowsXP. > ?> > ?> > ?> Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? > ?> > ?> > ?> Thanks > ?> Carolyn Johnson > ?> St Louis, MO > ?> -- > ?> AccessD mailing list > ?> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > ?> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > ?> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ?> > ?> -- > ?> AccessD mailing list > ?> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > ?> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > ?> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ?> -- > ?> AccessD mailing list > ?> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > ?> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > ?> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ?> > > > > ?-- > ?Gary Kjos > ?garykjos at gmail.com > > ?-- > ?AccessD mailing list > ?AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > ?http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > ?Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From cjlabs at worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 22 13:36:16 2009 From: cjlabs at worldnet.att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:36:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing References: <4dd71a0c0905270833r515e1c01yfea0f662cff213b2@mail.gmail.com><4dd71a0c0905280911m4cfae8a0n701062daf505f2f@mail.gmail.com><4A21381E.7010006@torchlake.com><61465C69C27942D894D4177840A71A3D@Dell><50BEDC4EFFB543B5803B19235A9187E4@HAL9005><9D44B9B483AE4BFAA8847706F1383C36@Dell> Message-ID: I think I'm going to have to live with it -- it's not so awful "having" to use Access2003 -- and just work on my laptop when I really need to be in 2000. And I think the only time I have to be in 2000 is when I'm making an .mde file to distribute. More than anything, it's annoying that, seemingly "out of the blue", 2000 stopped working on one computer, while it continues to work fine on the other. I wish I could figure out what happened. Thanks Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Kjos To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:07 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing Sorry you didn't get a solution. Perhaps a wipe the hard drive and reload Windows is called for since that was a critical application for you. Or maybe you would be able to use a Virtual PC type of a setup? On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > I still haven't been able to get Access2000 to work. I've uninstalled Office2003, 2000 and 97 and then reinstalled them all. I've reinstalled WindowsXP SP3. Everything I check seems up to date. > > I have a laptop running Windows XP SP3 and Access2000 still works there. I have no idea what happened to my desktop -- literally one hour after working fine, Access would not open and nothing has changed that. > > > It crashes during the Verifying system objects message in the bottom left of the window. Happens if I open an existing database or try to open a new database. If I try to open a new database using a wizard/template, it creates the new database, but then crashes when it goes to open the first form. > > > Carolyn Johnson > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Kjos > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:06 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > This link is about a slightly different version - XP but it sounds > like similar problem. Might be worth looking at. > > http://www.pcreview.co.uk/forums/thread-1094429.php > > The third post down has the solution that the original poster came to > use..He attributed the problem to JET which maybe wouldn't have been > reinstalled if you did a re-install if it thought it was already > there. Here's the solution as posted. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > "Any way, if anyone else runs into this problem, let me tell you how I > resolved the issue. I ran into a problem running another program and > was able to get real useable information about that error. Realized > the issue was with msjet40.dll. I tried using the file in the MS KB > to upgrade the file, and it wouldn't work since I had installed XP SP > 2. I decided to reinstall XP SP 2 and it reinstalled msjet40.dll. > Now I can open files in access and in the other program." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > GK > > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 8:53 AM, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > > I've had all 3 versions installed for years, and they were installed in separate folders in order from earliest to latest. When I reinstalled Office 2000 just now, I un-installed 2003, installed 2000, then reinstalled 2003. > > > > Everything is working all 3 versions except Access2000 (the one I use the most, of course). > > > > > > Carolyn > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 8:46 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > > > > The only thing I can think of is that the popular wisdom here is that you > > need to install different versions of Office from earliest to latest - in > > your case 97, then 2000, then 2003. Plus the updates. Big PITA. I'm not > > sure why that advice was given and wouldn't explain why it went south on you > > to begin with. But apparently installing them in a different order created > > some kind of problem. Are 97 and 2003 working OK then? > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson > > Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 6:34 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Access2000 crashing > > > > Access2000 has started crashing whenever I try to open a database or create > > a blank database. I've repaired Office2000 and then re-installed it, but > > it still crashes. If I try to create a new database, it will bring up the > > database window, but then I immediately get the "Microsoft Access for > > Windows has encounter a problem and needs to close" window. > > > > All my other Office 2000 programs are working. All the updates are > > installed. > > > > I have Office97 and 2003 installed as well, but they have been there for > > years. I'm not aware of any changes having been made to this computer. I > > work with Access2000 95% of the time (still have clients using it), and it's > > been working fine. I literally came back an hour after using it and it > > started crashing. > > > > On WindowsXP. > > > > > > Anyone seen this? Any suggestions? > > > > > > Thanks > > Carolyn Johnson > > St Louis, MO > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Jun 22 12:14:33 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:14:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Message-ID: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 14:53:19 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:53:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906221253w1e2b44d9ke9dbe1226bdb40f3@mail.gmail.com> I love this line: I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. But really, it should read: I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles and incompatibility between versions. :) I would say learning SQL server would be an easier transition. You can learn Oracle after you are comfortable with SQL server. D On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must > mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As > has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many > of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way > of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing > "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put > your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters > what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application > that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the > industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to > develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be > quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. > Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and > working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to > spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, > only silly bells and whistles. > I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. > Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 22 15:23:17 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:23:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> Hi Arthur and Jim, I doubt that VBA programmers will go easier with PHP (and mySQL) than with ASP.NET and MS SQL: I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always did get stopped me. In my opinion ASP.NET + MS SQL would be more natural for VBA developers to start with especially if they will use VB.NET. Making ASP.NET SOAP web service is an easy game - you can see one like that in our northwind.codeplex.com project samples. About ASP.NET community - yes, I have also got experience that it isn't that helpful for newbies... <<< So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) >>> What is the problem with that you have there? Do you mean using ASP.NET Forms standard authentication and related ASP.NET Login control? If yes, we can talk about that and find solution for your issue on dba-VB. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 22 15:23:17 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:23:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000101c9f377$4b6b97d0$e242c770$@spb.ru> Hi Jim, I just wanted to clarify what Max and William are joking around - no need to sorry for them. BTW AFAIK William did quit DBA-OT for several years now... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi William and Max, Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry just to have it quoted "as is". He meant "psychiatrist" of course. Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep one busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? Thank you. -- Shamil <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 22 15:23:17 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:23:17 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> Hi Max, No problem. BTW GULAG has gone for years, do you know? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Shamil, Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 22 15:32:10 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:32:10 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <000301c9f378$85e963a0$91bc2ae0$@spb.ru> Hi Tony -- The main (economical) advantage of using .NET development is that you can start developing simple VB.NET or C# utility or WinForms application for your customer and then with relatively little efforts you can scale it (/parts of it) into a Web Service or ASP.NET application or MS Windows Service or ... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey All Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 15:36:03 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:36:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> <000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4a3feb36.0508d00a.4d79.0a16@mx.google.com> No, I didn't know that - so where have you put William? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 22 June 2009 21:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Max, No problem. BTW GULAG has gone for years, do you know? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Shamil, Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Mon Jun 22 15:40:35 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 15:40:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey All Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Jun 22 15:54:06 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:54:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4A3FEF6E.2060305@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Drew I don't know what a VPN is, but on all my network systems we have never run into a problem. Thanks Tony Drew Wutka wrote: >Not Oracle? Yikes! > >As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >yikes..... > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >Hey All >Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must >mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As >has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many >of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way >of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing >"flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put >your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters > >what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application > >that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the > >industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to >develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be >quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. >Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and >working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to >spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, >only silly bells and whistles. >I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. >Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 22 16:01:51 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 01:01:51 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <4a3feb36.0508d00a.4d79.0a16@mx.google.com> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> <000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> <4a3feb36.0508d00a.4d79.0a16@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000401c9f37c$ac0f2de0$042d89a0$@spb.ru> Max, You did put yourself in GULAG in your imagination, didn't you? And where did you put William? Just kidding the way you do. Topic closed - OK? - as Andy will soon start "shooting" us here (and he will be absolutely right)... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms No, I didn't know that - so where have you put William? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 22 June 2009 21:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Max, No problem. BTW GULAG has gone for years, do you know? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Shamil, Mea Culpa...sorry, I hadn't realised it was you who said it...If I had of realised that I would have banished myself to the gulag archipelago... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 20 June 2009 20:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Mon Jun 22 17:22:24 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:22:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A3FEF6E.2060305@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <4A3FEF6E.2060305@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Virtual Private Network. So connecting into a network through the internet. A typical network will run at 100 megabits (maybe even gigabit...), a VPN connection is typically the end users internet speed (a megabit or two if they are lucky). The applications I have tried to run over a VPN connection, with an .mdb backend, are slow as dirt over that slow of a connection. Switching them to a SQL Server back end, makes them almost the same speed as they would be locally. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey Drew I don't know what a VPN is, but on all my network systems we have never run into a problem. Thanks Tony Drew Wutka wrote: >Not Oracle? Yikes! > >As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >yikes..... > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >Hey All >Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must >mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As >has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many >of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way >of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing >"flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put >your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters > >what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application > >that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the > >industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to >develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be >quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. >Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and >working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to >spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, >only silly bells and whistles. >I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. >Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Mon Jun 22 18:13:44 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:13:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Jun 22 20:04:14 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:04:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com>, <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <4A402A0E.16750.82D8D8A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> There are many reasons to avoid Oracle , not the least being the complex requirements to installing the ODBC driver for a specific Oracle version. But I call B*llsh*t on this! The writer knows not of what he speaks! Concatenation is not a binary operation. SQL Server and Access both operate in the same way as this with Nulls. -- Stuart On 23 Jun 2009 at 9:13, Darryl Collins wrote: > For example: > > "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one > apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle > they are not different. > > So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then > again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, > the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, > including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? > > In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, > but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, > but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and > empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then > again, not equal). From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Mon Jun 22 20:37:27 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:37:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A402A0E.16750.82D8D8A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com>, <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <4A402A0E.16750.82D8D8A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D002@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Hi Stuart I would agree with the Concatenation result as a bit of a beat up - I would expect the result he got from any system, but I have heard that the way Oracle deals with Nulls is not easy to grasp and is different to SQL Server. I don't know enough about this to really comment directly but I it would be interesting to hear what other folks have had in experience with this think. I know a lot of folks I work with really dislike Oracle. Biased? maybe, but then maybe not. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2009 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net There are many reasons to avoid Oracle , not the least being the complex requirements to installing the ODBC driver for a specific Oracle version. But I call B*llsh*t on this! The writer knows not of what he speaks! Concatenation is not a binary operation. SQL Server and Access both operate in the same way as this with Nulls. -- Stuart On 23 Jun 2009 at 9:13, Darryl Collins wrote: > For example: > > "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one > apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle > they are not different. > > So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then > again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, > the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, > including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? > > In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, > but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, > but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and > empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then > again, not equal). -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 21:05:41 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:05:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <000101c9f377$4b6b97d0$e242c770$@spb.ru> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000101c9f377$4b6b97d0$e242c770$@spb.ru> Message-ID: I was only kidding... that was my quirky sense of humour... Some get it and with some I have to apologies. ;-) William did restart OT but quit again... he really does enjoy a good argument... like chess master and so do I. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi Jim, I just wanted to clarify what Max and William are joking around - no need to sorry for them. BTW AFAIK William did quit DBA-OT for several years now... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 11:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Sorry Shamil but these guys come from the OT list where nothing is safe of sacred. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms Hi William and Max, Sorry for my English, I didn't get what are you joking around? ?[:-[[ :) I have quoted Jim's sentence with some funny mistyping he made in a hurry just to have it quoted "as is". He meant "psychiatrist" of course. Are you joking on that or on the issue that the link I posted could keep one busy watching software development related webcasts for a couple of days? Thank you. -- Shamil <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Mon Jun 22 21:08:40 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. > It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. > (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides > could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel > and philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little > fuss under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language > enhancements, like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Mon Jun 22 21:12:05 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:12:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <821CBEF8EA864C4D82FB12B233C44880@advancedinput.com> PHP is similar to classic ASP where code is often interspersed with html tags which also makes it quite easy to create spaghetti code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:38 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) PHP Plusses: * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! These features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no changes under Linux/Apache. PHP Drawbacks: * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, use something else. * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. -Ken > The only problem with .Net is that a large bunch of guys/girls on > this list > are old farts and after spending 20 odd years mastering MS Access, > are slow > to learn new tricks. > ... > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Mon Jun 22 21:17:26 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:17:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Mon Jun 22 21:35:56 2009 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:35:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Message-ID: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> I have to totally agree Darryl. Although AC2007 has that cool linkage to Sharepoint lists, hardly anyone uses it. One big reason is that the sync feature is disabled in the run-time version. At one of my clients, Access is being banned by the IT department. However, the users fought to retain it as a prototyping platform...and they won that battle. Also your mention of C# is interesting....as it appears that VB.NET is just a ugly step-child of the original VB. VB.NET code is so verbose and not elegant at all....IMHO. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > As for VBA and Access - I feel MS Access 2007 is now seriously wounded > as a development platform. Is is becoming just a ballsy spreadsheet > with data integrity for power users > - rather then the seriously useful beastie it was. > > I think the future for what we do is much more SQL Server BE with > ASP.Net browser based FE (coded in C# no less) - and I am busy > learning those skills right now. Yep, the learning curve seems steep, > but I am confident it will be all worth it. VBA is a dying language > IMHO, I feel sad about that, but it seem to be true. > > just my thoughts > Darryl. > This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 21:44:02 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:44:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: I tend to agree with you that .Net is the way to go as now I have some many different technologies to support it is hard to master any. What I need is a steady gig with .Net... say 6 months and away I go. Right now a client is giving me a few weeks MS Access with an ongoing support contract... I have even suggested an ASP.Net web based solution but they didn't bite. I personally believe that web based programming is the way of the present and future but it takes extensive knowledge of a number of disciplines. Unless you are working on a team effort, a successful programmer/contractor has to be competent with: 1. Computer Graphics.. Photoshop and Illustrator along with excellent design understanding (Even Flash and now Silver Light). 2. A good understanding of FE layout and presentation; HTML, CSS and JavaScript. 3. A good knowledge of browser data flow, ASP.Net, AJAX, SOAP, XML... etc. 4. Then there is BE technology, SQL (MS, Oracle, MySQL), Cloud technology, Hosting and various other mash-ups. I am sure you guys can add plenty to that list but I think I have covered the highlights. ...and people wonder why a good custom built commercial web site cost 100K and if the site is to remain fresh and current that 100K is only about 20% of what the long-term support fees will come to. I know of many successful commercial sites (companies which do most of the work through the web) that have a team of 10 or more techs working full-time. If I was not so lazy (translation; 25 years younger) I would be trying to start up another company. To make a short story long... I agree with you that ASP.Net is the technology to learn. Jim PS The ASP.Net problem will have to wait until the paying gig is finished... and oh yes, the inside house look like a bomb exploded... I am in the middle of Reno hell as well. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Jim, I doubt that VBA programmers will go easier with PHP (and mySQL) than with ASP.NET and MS SQL: I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always did get stopped me. In my opinion ASP.NET + MS SQL would be more natural for VBA developers to start with especially if they will use VB.NET. Making ASP.NET SOAP web service is an easy game - you can see one like that in our northwind.codeplex.com project samples. About ASP.NET community - yes, I have also got experience that it isn't that helpful for newbies... <<< So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) >>> What is the problem with that you have there? Do you mean using ASP.NET Forms standard authentication and related ASP.NET Login control? If yes, we can talk about that and find solution for your issue on dba-VB. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 21:44:38 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:44:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <369FE88AB92F48B7B7F70E8D0054AC56@creativesystemdesigns.com> PS Shamil... thanks for the offer to help. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Jim, I doubt that VBA programmers will go easier with PHP (and mySQL) than with ASP.NET and MS SQL: I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always did get stopped me. In my opinion ASP.NET + MS SQL would be more natural for VBA developers to start with especially if they will use VB.NET. Making ASP.NET SOAP web service is an easy game - you can see one like that in our northwind.codeplex.com project samples. About ASP.NET community - yes, I have also got experience that it isn't that helpful for newbies... <<< So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) >>> What is the problem with that you have there? Do you mean using ASP.NET Forms standard authentication and related ASP.NET Login control? If yes, we can talk about that and find solution for your issue on dba-VB. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 22:17:09 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:17:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey All Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 22 22:46:51 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:46:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <11530BC99D3D40A88179593CBC26A23E@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Darryl: I would say that I am more of an expert in Oracle than MS SQL. I really like MS SQL but to find meaningful work in an Oracle town is difficult to say the least. After working on a MS SQL project for almost 5 years it was cancelled without comment, other than "We need to standardize" and replaced with Oracle. I have worked full-time on Oracle support and have taken courses in Oracle 10 and 11i. They are both excellent products. MS SQL is more automated while Oracle can really be hacked and patched. There a lot more work in Oracle as far as I can see and when you become certified in the product starting wage is 60K up to 120K for senior techs (5 years). And in free-lance work you can make a lot more. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Mon Jun 22 22:50:37 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:50:37 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <742CB8DF372F46E081EC9028B7AA8AC8@stevePC> Tony, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Tony Septav" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:14 AM > ... I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way > of the dinosaur. I reckon Access still has a lot of life in it. Like a real lot. I suggest waiting until you have had a chance to assess Access 2010 before making the dinosaur prediction. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 22 23:26:21 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:26:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Message-ID: <380-2200962234262187@M2W022.mail2web.com> For my money - SQL Server only when you have a large amount of data and/or users. But .Net yes because everybody seems to want their apps web enabled now. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:14:33 -0700 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey All Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft? Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 00:02:51 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:02:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> Message-ID: <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. > It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. > (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides > could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel > and philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little > fuss under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language > enhancements, like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 00:05:33 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:05:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 00:21:19 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:21:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <6DE7158799D941928E6476F093EDDF61@advancedinput.com> Jim, You can make this "portable" by creating and encapsulating this in a user control. Once you get the plumbing in place you can instantiate this user control in any web page you want to use it in. I tend to simplify these user authentication modules and stay away from ASP.NET 2.0's authentication and membership model. I just recently completed a project for Roxy.com (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini) that incorporated these features. 1. User login is handled by a User table. 2. User registrations are handled by a Contestants table. 3. Email validation is achieved by sending the user an email link that contains a confirmation code that is essentially a GUID field. There was no need to do a time-out for validating email addresses but that would be easy to implement as well. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric From ebarro at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 00:30:41 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:30:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, I agree with you on the paradigm shift to web applications as opposed to desktop applications. In most cases however, those coming from a desktop-based environment tend to have a hard time transitioning because desktop apps tend to grab all of the data at once since there is often no need to take into account accessing network resources and all processing is done on the local machine. With a web-based approach one has to understand the client-server interaction. A good approach would be to find someone who is good with computer graphics, CSS, HTML and page layouting. When I worked on the Roxy project (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini), I worked with a good buddy of mine who took care of converting the Photoshop design files (PSDs) into HTML and CSS. I then converted the controls to ASP.NET controls and we use Visual SourceSafe for version control collaborating over the web. The tougher piece of the puzzle has to do with browser data flow and understanding how all the dynamic magic takes place. I'm currently working with David Emerson on a project where he takes care of the Access desktop version of an application he designed and developed and I took over the web version development. It's quite an involved process but I believe that we've been able to demonstrate that the process works (right David?). Eric P.S. Shamil, you like ESET's NOD32 as well I see? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Shamil: I tend to agree with you that .Net is the way to go as now I have some many different technologies to support it is hard to master any. What I need is a steady gig with .Net... say 6 months and away I go. Right now a client is giving me a few weeks MS Access with an ongoing support contract... I have even suggested an ASP.Net web based solution but they didn't bite. I personally believe that web based programming is the way of the present and future but it takes extensive knowledge of a number of disciplines. Unless you are working on a team effort, a successful programmer/contractor has to be competent with: 1. Computer Graphics.. Photoshop and Illustrator along with excellent design understanding (Even Flash and now Silver Light). 2. A good understanding of FE layout and presentation; HTML, CSS and JavaScript. 3. A good knowledge of browser data flow, ASP.Net, AJAX, SOAP, XML... etc. 4. Then there is BE technology, SQL (MS, Oracle, MySQL), Cloud technology, Hosting and various other mash-ups. I am sure you guys can add plenty to that list but I think I have covered the highlights. ...and people wonder why a good custom built commercial web site cost 100K and if the site is to remain fresh and current that 100K is only about 20% of what the long-term support fees will come to. I know of many successful commercial sites (companies which do most of the work through the web) that have a team of 10 or more techs working full-time. If I was not so lazy (translation; 25 years younger) I would be trying to start up another company. To make a short story long... I agree with you that ASP.Net is the technology to learn. Jim PS The ASP.Net problem will have to wait until the paying gig is finished... and oh yes, the inside house look like a bomb exploded... I am in the middle of Reno hell as well. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 04:31:22 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:31:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms In-Reply-To: <000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru> <222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com> <9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev> <001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru> <6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com> <000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906230231x556fca44ha139d54342b55b3a@mail.gmail.com> The gulag is not gone, it's been renamed Guantanamo. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov < shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru> wrote: > Hi Max, > > No problem. BTW GULAG has gone for years, do you know? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 04:34:49 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:34:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, all from your own desktop. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no > idea > how good they are. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Not Oracle? Yikes! > > As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that > knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal > network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and > yikes..... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:15 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Hey All > Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must > mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As > has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many > of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way > of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing > "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put > your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters > > what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application > > that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the > > industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to > develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be > quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. > Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and > working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to > spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, > only silly bells and whistles. > I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. > Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 04:51:59 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:51:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Conditional subforms References: <257495CAAF03434A92AE5F9CB2B53485@creativesystemdesigns.com><000001c9f0e9$99ec0d80$cdc42880$@spb.ru><222C983A561947C4A82D24A79960BB0C@creativesystemdesigns.com><4a3be072.1c07d00a.5945.086b@mx.google.com><9B4914D2C87847FDBF7E71835CAA01F4@jislaptopdev><001301c9f129$71cad080$55607180$@spb.ru><6AE35C2AB0A64199A486B8913FCBBF61@creativesystemdesigns.com><4a3d358b.1818d00a.305b.1956@mx.google.com><000201c9f377$4d8e50c0$e8aaf240$@spb.ru> <29f585dd0906230231x556fca44ha139d54342b55b3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ...crap ...but its Tuesday ...OT, Arthur. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Fuller" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:31 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Conditional subforms > The gulag is not gone, it's been renamed Guantanamo. > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov < > shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru> wrote: > >> Hi Max, >> >> No problem. BTW GULAG has gone for years, do you know? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Jun 23 06:09:04 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:09:04 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000f01c9f3f3$06736c80$135a4580$@spb.ru> Hi William, What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS Live Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on client's PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from within VS2008 in debug mode etc. Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, all from your own desktop. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no > idea > how good they are. > > Jim > <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4180 (20090623) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 06:42:59 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:42:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Interesting read on capturing I/O patterns Message-ID: <4A40BFC3.8040704@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.sqlservercentral.com/articles/I%2fO/66420/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 23 07:04:33 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:04:33 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Message-ID: Hi Shamil We use the basic version of LogMeIn, the Free version. Works extremely well, is very fast, bumps through any firewall, and uses 256 encryption. http://www.logmein.com I even use it to remote control my own workstation from home rather than remote desktop - with no VPN. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-06-2009 13:09 >>> Hi William, What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS Live Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on client's PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from within VS2008 in debug mode etc. Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, all from your own desktop. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea > how good they are. > > Jim > <<< snip >>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 07:22:45 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:22:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <000f01c9f3f3$06736c80$135a4580$@spb.ru> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000f01c9f3f3$06736c80$135a4580$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4A40C915.3020609@colbyconsulting.com> Shamil, My preference is Hamachi to create a VPN direct to an individual desktop, then I use VNC. there are issues if the remote end has a slow internet connection but it works and is all readily available. Professional firewalls can easily shut down Hamachi however so it works best for small clients. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi William, > > What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS Live > Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on client's > PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from > within VS2008 in debug mode etc. > > Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force > without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with > clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the > responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love > the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can > actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, > all from your own desktop. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> > <<< snip >>> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4180 (20090623) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 07:24:09 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A40C969.3000100@colbyconsulting.com> I use remote desktop at home between computers. MUCH faster than anything non-native and the interface IS the desktop at the other end. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > We use the basic version of LogMeIn, the Free version. Works extremely well, is very fast, bumps through any firewall, and uses 256 encryption. > > http://www.logmein.com > > I even use it to remote control my own workstation from home rather than remote desktop - with no VPN. > > /gustav > > >>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-06-2009 13:09 >>> > Hi William, > > What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS Live > Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on client's > PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from > within VS2008 in debug mode etc. > > Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force > without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with > clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the > responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love > the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can > actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, > all from your own desktop. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> > <<< snip >>> > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Jun 23 07:32:40 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:32:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Message-ID: <4A40CB68.70003@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Thanks for the information. In all my years I have only had one client request a web based application, then they shelved the idea. But I get the point, though as many of you have said it seems you would have to be a master of many languages/techniques to produce a quality finished web product. And in some cases the cost would be prohibitive to many of my clients. The reason I asked about Oracle, is as Jim mentioned but to find meaningful work in an Oracle town is difficult to say the least. Several of my clients have some big apps developed in Oracle and when I mentioned MS SQL the response was "Huh what????". So I guess this old fart will continue to work his "hoodoo voodoo" using Access. I have downloaded MS SQL and VB.Net and started to dabble in learning both. Again like Jim mentioned what I really need is a "kick start" by having a client request and providing time to produce an application using the above. I am kind of envious of those of you who had the foresight years ago to start the learning curve early. I just hope a new "flavour of the month", doesn't show up any time soon in the near future. Thanks again Just another old fart floating in the ether. From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 07:48:43 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:48:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <9C669023211C4DD1AA650F387DDFBFA5@XPS> Drew, I have to say I was shocked when I read this and had to check twice it was posted by you. "but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... " I think I took this the wrong way as you of all people should know that JET was never designed to be used over any type of a WAN link. Why one would even try is beyond me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hey All Like many of you on this list I have to admit I am an old fart. Must mention that I deal with small to medium sized netwroked businesses. As has been stated it is hard to "teach an old fart new tricks". Like many of you I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or go the way of the dinosaur. But to me that is playing into the industry marketing "flavour of the day". Other than the IT Borg saying it will not put your ACCESS application on our system, I don't really see how it matters what language you use. If you produce a fast, user friendly application that is easy, intuitive and bullet proof for the user, who cares. If the industry marketers would allow I could still use Lotus 123 for DOS to develop number crunching spreadsheets that 80% of the users would be quite content to use because it produces the results they are looking. Same with ACCESS, I still have 97 Apps out there being updated and working fine. I have not seen any "earth shattering" advances to spread/work sheet and database concepts since their original design, only silly bells and whistles. I could be wrong and I know many of you will set me straight. Why SQL Server and not Oracle????? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 07:50:55 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> References: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: Mark, <> That's too bad as Access still has a place in the IT world in that it makes an excellent front end. The places where JET can be used as a data store however are getting to be few and far between. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net I have to totally agree Darryl. Although AC2007 has that cool linkage to Sharepoint lists, hardly anyone uses it. One big reason is that the sync feature is disabled in the run-time version. At one of my clients, Access is being banned by the IT department. However, the users fought to retain it as a prototyping platform...and they won that battle. Also your mention of C# is interesting....as it appears that VB.NET is just a ugly step-child of the original VB. VB.NET code is so verbose and not elegant at all....IMHO. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 10:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > As for VBA and Access - I feel MS Access 2007 is now seriously wounded > as a development platform. Is is becoming just a ballsy spreadsheet > with data integrity for power users > - rather then the seriously useful beastie it was. > > I think the future for what we do is much more SQL Server BE with > ASP.Net browser based FE (coded in C# no less) - and I am busy > learning those skills right now. Yep, the learning curve seems steep, > but I am confident it will be all worth it. VBA is a dying language > IMHO, I feel sad about that, but it seem to be true. > > just my thoughts > Darryl. > This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 08:16:02 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:16:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net References: <380-2200962234262187@M2W022.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <2E271CB07F774C658B587543B26238A5@SusanOne> For my money - SQL Server only when you have a large amount of data and/or users. But .Net yes because everybody seems to want their apps web enabled now. ======I follow a lot of IT recruitment sites and they all want .NET, seems like -- doesn't matter what the actual position does or what they'll be creating, etc -- they always list .NET. I'm going to open a day care -- far less challenging! ;) Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 08:17:03 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:17:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com><000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru><2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <45CB32C65B31478E978FF54739C157EF@SusanOne> But then, Firefox comes along with Prism so you can use web-applications like desktop applications! How odd is that? Susan H. > Jim, > > I agree with you on the paradigm shift to web applications as opposed to > desktop applications. In most cases however, those coming from a > desktop-based environment tend to have a hard time transitioning because > desktop apps tend to grab all of the data at once since there is often no > need to take into account accessing network resources and all processing > is > done on the local machine. With a web-based approach one has to understand > the client-server interaction. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 09:15:27 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:15:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What is this? Message-ID: <4A40E37F.2020500@colbyconsulting.com> I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. I have never seen a text control use these properties and methods. Is this something new in 2007 or does this go back to some previous version? What is the advantage of this over the normal TransferText? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 Sub Command1_Click () Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: text1.LinkMode = 0 ' Set up the DDE link: text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" text1.LinkItem = "All" text1.LinkMode = 2 ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access Table: cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: text1.LinkExecute cmd text1.LinkMode = 0 MsgBox "Transfer OK" Exit Sub DDEerr: ' An error has occurred. MsgBox Error MsgBox "Error in transfer." Exit Sub End Sub -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Tue Jun 23 09:28:45 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:28:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What is this? Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789CD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> John, DDE has been around for years and as far as I know, isn't used much anymore. Notice at the bottom of the article, it applies to VB 4.0 and VB 3.0 and is listed as Retired KB content, and the last review of the article was in January 2003. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] What is this? I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. I have never seen a text control use these properties and methods. Is this something new in 2007 or does this go back to some previous version? What is the advantage of this over the normal TransferText? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 Sub Command1_Click () Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: text1.LinkMode = 0 ' Set up the DDE link: text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" text1.LinkItem = "All" text1.LinkMode = 2 ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access Table: cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: text1.LinkExecute cmd text1.LinkMode = 0 MsgBox "Transfer OK" Exit Sub DDEerr: ' An error has occurred. MsgBox Error MsgBox "Error in transfer." Exit Sub End Sub -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Jun 23 09:44:16 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:44:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] What is this? References: <4A40E37F.2020500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Obviously, I don't really know this stuff, but it is really interesting. I wonder if DDE is simply diving into the message stream in the same way that COM has a somewhat eager look-ahead registry resolution of types, etc - the same thing the happens in Visual Studio'sError List/Warnings/Messages window. Hmm. I'm going to have to look into this when I get some time. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: [AccessD] What is this? >I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. >I have never seen a > text control use these properties and methods. Is this something new in > 2007 or does this go back > to some previous version? What is the advantage of this over the normal > TransferText? > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 > > Sub Command1_Click () > Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. > On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. > > ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: > text1.LinkMode = 0 > > ' Set up the DDE link: > text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" > text1.LinkItem = "All" > text1.LinkMode = 2 > > ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access > Table: > cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" > > ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: > text1.LinkExecute cmd > text1.LinkMode = 0 > MsgBox "Transfer OK" > Exit Sub > > DDEerr: > ' An error has occurred. > MsgBox Error > MsgBox "Error in transfer." > Exit Sub > End Sub > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 23 10:02:53 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:02:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 23 10:06:51 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:06:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <2E271CB07F774C658B587543B26238A5@SusanOne> References: <380-2200962234262187@M2W022.mail2web.com> <2E271CB07F774C658B587543B26238A5@SusanOne> Message-ID: >I'm going to open a day care -- far less challenging! ;) For Access developers?? LOL Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net For my money - SQL Server only when you have a large amount of data and/or users. But .Net yes because everybody seems to want their apps web enabled now. ======I follow a lot of IT recruitment sites and they all want .NET, seems like -- doesn't matter what the actual position does or what they'll be creating, etc -- they always list .NET. I'm going to open a day care -- far less challenging! ;) Susan H. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 10:07:21 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:07:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 23 10:10:07 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:10:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] What is this? In-Reply-To: <4A40E37F.2020500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A40E37F.2020500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Didn't you ever use DDE in the early versions of Access/Office? This is old clunky stuff and you don't want to go there. To use it, you had to do a bunch of stuff that COM handled automatically and soooooo much better. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] What is this? I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. I have never seen a text control use these properties and methods. Is this something new in 2007 or does this go back to some previous version? What is the advantage of this over the normal TransferText? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 Sub Command1_Click () Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: text1.LinkMode = 0 ' Set up the DDE link: text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" text1.LinkItem = "All" text1.LinkMode = 2 ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access Table: cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: text1.LinkExecute cmd text1.LinkMode = 0 MsgBox "Transfer OK" Exit Sub DDEerr: ' An error has occurred. MsgBox Error MsgBox "Error in transfer." Exit Sub End Sub -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:13:57 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:13:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net References: <380-2200962234262187@M2W022.mail2web.com><2E271CB07F774C658B587543B26238A5@SusanOne> Message-ID: AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHH! Oh my, you made me laugh right out loud! ;) My daycare will have no computers!!! We will learn about flowers and butterflies and we will feed the birds! Access developers are welcome, but they'll end up in time out if they start arguing abound binding and keys! Susan H. > >I'm going to open a day care -- far less challenging! ;) > > For Access developers?? LOL > From kismert at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:17:35 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:17:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: <7c7841600906230817h7d5a3fc5g1bb7619ae1682559@mail.gmail.com> Interesting Link: TIOBE Programming Community Index for June 2009 http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html PHP beats both C# and Visual Basic. Since all flavors of VB get lumped together (VB6, VBA, etc.), it is likely that PHP has around the same share as all .NET languages. This hasn't been lost on Microsoft, which has decided to work on improving their PHP support: SQL Server Driver for PHP http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2005/en/us/PHP-Driver.aspx That's the source of PHP's native SQL Server driver. Also, feel free to download the PHP on Windows Training Kit. The point is, PHP's support and usability on Windows has improved dramatically. It at least deserves serious consideration as a valid option for a web project. I'll address some comments made by others: (Shamil Salakhetdinov) >...I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather >good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't >get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always >did get stopped me.... The choice of language is a personal thing. Certainly, some people will feel more at home with VB.NET than PHP. Go with what makes you most productive. But if you're thinking of going with C#, you're stuck in curly braces land anyway -- give PHP a careful look. (Eric Barro) >...PHP is similar to classic ASP where code is often >interspersed with html tags which also makes it quite >easy to create spaghetti code... Choice of language doesn't guarantee clean code. The one large ASP.NETproject I got an 'over the shoulders' view of was a train wreck. The complexities of ASP.NET overwhelmed the young developers, who at points were barely breaking even in solving more problems than they were creating. The programmers on this list would avoid most of these problems. Discipline gained through experience counts for a lot. >...Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO >feature to be something to look forward to in any >programming language... Goto was a screamingly controversial move for the PHP team. I attended a talk by Rasmus Lerdorf, the originator of PHP, and he said it was included because certain situations, it made the code much cleaner. Pure pragmatism. Caveats acknowledged, use at your own risk. (Jim Lawrence) >...I personally believe that web based programming is >the way of the present and future but it takes extensive >knowledge of a number of disciplines... Jim's comments about the multi-disciplinary nature of web programming are on target. The back-end language is only a small part of what you will need to learn. However, lots of sophisticated web sites get built for a lot less than the $100k -- efficient frameworks on the front and back end can play a big role in making things cheaper. -Ken From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 10:18:00 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:18:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: What is this? In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789CD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789CD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4A40F228.4000700@colbyconsulting.com> I was interested in the properties of the text box. I was not even aware that text boxes had these properties. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com wrote: > John, > > DDE has been around for years and as far as I know, isn't used much anymore. > Notice at the bottom of the article, it applies to VB 4.0 and VB 3.0 and is > listed as Retired KB content, and the last review of the article was in > January 2003. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What is this? > > I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. > I have never seen a text control use these properties and methods. Is this > something new in 2007 or does this go back to some previous version? What > is the advantage of this over the normal TransferText? > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 > > Sub Command1_Click () > Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. > On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. > > ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: > text1.LinkMode = 0 > > ' Set up the DDE link: > text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" > text1.LinkItem = "All" > text1.LinkMode = 2 > > ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access Table: > cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" > > ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: > text1.LinkExecute cmd > text1.LinkMode = 0 > MsgBox "Transfer OK" > Exit Sub > > DDEerr: > ' An error has occurred. > MsgBox Error > MsgBox "Error in transfer." > Exit Sub > End Sub > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:24:27 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:24:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Message-ID: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to wonder whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call rather than code the CASE statement. A. From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 23 10:27:36 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:27:36 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] DDE (was: What is this?) Message-ID: Hi John Welcome to the Office Antique Store at 1 Memory Lane. Wonder how you located that page? Anyway, as Charlotte states, this is true old stuff dated back to Access 1.0! It is documented here: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/98791 It works but, these days, only for the fun. One of the major drawbacks is, as I remember, that DDE runs in the same thread as Access itself meaning that any action on the DDE channel will pause your frontend. Also, error handling is nil, so if it doesn't work you will get no clue on what happened nor what to do. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 23-06-2009 16:15 >>> I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. I have never seen a text control use these properties and methods. Is this something new in 2007 or does this go back to some previous version? What is the advantage of this over the normal TransferText? http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 Sub Command1_Click () Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: text1.LinkMode = 0 ' Set up the DDE link: text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" text1.LinkItem = "All" text1.LinkMode = 2 ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access Table: cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: text1.LinkExecute cmd text1.LinkMode = 0 MsgBox "Transfer OK" Exit Sub DDEerr: ' An error has occurred. MsgBox Error MsgBox "Error in transfer." Exit Sub End Sub -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 10:28:21 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:28:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <821CBEF8EA864C4D82FB12B233C44880@advancedinput.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <821CBEF8EA864C4D82FB12B233C44880@advancedinput.com> Message-ID: Try, and ASP classis is VB Script based, where PHP is more C++ in style. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:12 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? PHP is similar to classic ASP where code is often interspersed with html tags which also makes it quite easy to create spaghetti code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:38 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:31:15 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:31:15 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 10:33:51 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:33:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working a file based database across the network. However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I really use). I also have an application that used to be our request system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can switch the phone list to list our online servers too. While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 10:35:07 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:35:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: There are rare (but still existing) occasions where I have used Goto in VB. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Tue Jun 23 10:38:50 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:38:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: What is this? Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D789DA@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Oh. Well, according to the article it's the VB text box that has the properties, not the Access text box. I don't know if they are still available in VB or not. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: What is this? I was interested in the properties of the text box. I was not even aware that text boxes had these properties. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com wrote: > John, > > DDE has been around for years and as far as I know, isn't used much anymore. > Notice at the bottom of the article, it applies to VB 4.0 and VB 3.0 > and is listed as Retired KB content, and the last review of the > article was in January 2003. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] What is this? > > I just found code that does the TransferText in a completely different way. > I have never seen a text control use these properties and methods. Is > this something new in 2007 or does this go back to some previous > version? What is the advantage of this over the normal TransferText? > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/113905 > > Sub Command1_Click () > Dim cmd As String ' Holds DDEExecute command. > On Error GoTo DDEerr ' Error trap. > > ' Make sure there isn't an existing DDE conversation: > text1.LinkMode = 0 > > ' Set up the DDE link: > text1.LinkTopic = "MSACCESS|C:\ACCESS\NWIND.MDB" > text1.LinkItem = "All" > text1.LinkMode = 2 > > ' DDEExecute command to import text file into Microsoft Access Table: > cmd = "[TransferText ,,'Shippers','C:\ACCESS\SHIPPERS.TXT']" > > ' Execute the TransferText command and close the DDE link: > text1.LinkExecute cmd > text1.LinkMode = 0 > MsgBox "Transfer OK" > Exit Sub > > DDEerr: > ' An error has occurred. > MsgBox Error > MsgBox "Error in transfer." > Exit Sub > End Sub > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or > review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:39:09 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:39:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I don't know why you couldn't pass the name of the function as a string???? Susan H. > Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? > The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in > various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the > code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with > this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to > wonder > whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call > rather than code the CASE statement. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:42:55 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:42:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a40f80b.0707d00a.1ac8.07a1@mx.google.com> I hope somebody has the answer to this, it would make error handling a lot easier if we could easily identify the function/sub the error occurred in. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: 23 June 2009 16:24 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to wonder whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call rather than code the CASE statement. A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 10:43:31 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:43:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A40C969.3000100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A40C969.3000100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Remote Administrator from famatech.com is very lightweight. It defaults connections to 100 'refreshes' per second. Put that at 10, and you'll be amazed at how versatile it is. It'll actually hook into your display drivers. Very quick, very light weight (have run it on old PII's, that were cranking out other stuff, and they didn't flinch when I would remote in). While Remote Desktop is fine, one of it's quirks is that by default, remote desktop will give you a different 'session' on a machine. Now, I think that's different for a strictly client machine, but on a server, you will get a new session. And, it is VERY sluggish trying to move data back and forth, and you can overwrite your local clipboard without realizing it. Remote Admin is better at this. You can open a completely separate 'file transfer' session, which is faster then Remote Desktop's 'shared' drives. You can also manually set or get the remote clipboard, which IMO is more appropriate. Also, another MAJOR advantage is that you can 'link' sessions. For example, I have a 'server' at home, that has a port open through my firewall to hit with Remote Admin. I can use THAT remote admin server to hit any machine on my local network (so the remote admin server application will act as it's own router). Otherwise, I would have to have every machine on my network open to the world that way. Though Remote Desktop is free (Remote Admin isn't very expensive....). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I use remote desktop at home between computers. MUCH faster than anything non-native and the interface IS the desktop at the other end. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > We use the basic version of LogMeIn, the Free version. Works extremely well, is very fast, bumps through any firewall, and uses 256 encryption. > > http://www.logmein.com > > I even use it to remote control my own workstation from home rather than remote desktop - with no VPN. > > /gustav > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:43:55 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:43:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a40f83f.1c07d00a.660c.5685@mx.google.com> Because you would have to code it. What is wanted is something like.. On error goto myerrorfunction In there we (me) would like to know the stack properties of the modules it took to get there. At the moment, I have to set variables to imitate the stack. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 23 June 2009 16:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function I don't know why you couldn't pass the name of the function as a string???? Susan H. > Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? > The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in > various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the > code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with > this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to > wonder > whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call > rather than code the CASE statement. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Tue Jun 23 10:45:02 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:45:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys> Hi Arthur, There is a CallByName function I saw an example at PlanetSourceCode and a few items in Google regarding its use. - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:24 AM Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? > The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in > various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the > code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with > this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to > wonder > whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call > rather than code the CASE statement. > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 10:47:25 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:47:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <9C669023211C4DD1AA650F387DDFBFA5@XPS> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <9C669023211C4DD1AA650F387DDFBFA5@XPS> Message-ID: LOL, over the last few years, I do more and more remotely. As I just posted a few minutes ago, I had an app I built, that I have started to use a lot more often over a VPN. It was initially built on top of an .mdb. I switched it to a SQL Server about a year ago. It worked over a VPN, just very very slow. It depends on the environment you build in. I haven't built an Access FE for a LONG time. My front ends are either going to be web based, or VB based. VB, SQL Server just automatically allows it to be used remotely. Web, well if the .mdb is on the server, there are very few advanatages of SQL Server over .mdb, when the .mdb is local on the webserver. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Drew, I have to say I was shocked when I read this and had to check twice it was posted by you. "but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... " I think I took this the wrong way as you of all people should know that JET was never designed to be used over any type of a WAN link. Why one would even try is beyond me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From kismert at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 11:00:41 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:00:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Digest, Vol 76, Issue 32 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7c7841600906230900q5fb505b0y88ae84956634ecec@mail.gmail.com> Prism is a very attractive idea -- the browser as a universal application interface. Prism could allow you to build applications that work offline when you don't have an internet connection, and sync up later. It could also allow you to offer a product that works over the internet, a local intranet or just on your desktop, giving a solution provider the ultimate in flexibility in deploying apps. >But then, Firefox comes along with Prism so you can use >web-applications like desktop applications! How odd is that? >Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 11:04:30 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:04:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AccessD Digest, Vol 76, Issue 32 References: <7c7841600906230900q5fb505b0y88ae84956634ecec@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: FWIW, they're taking names for beta testing -- I might jump on board this one. Susan H. > Prism is a very attractive idea -- the browser as a universal application > interface. > > Prism could allow you to build applications that work offline when you > don't > have an internet connection, and sync up later. > > It could also allow you to offer a product that works over the internet, a > local intranet or just on your desktop, giving a solution provider the > ultimate in flexibility in deploying apps. > >>But then, Firefox comes along with Prism so you can use >>web-applications like desktop applications! How odd is that? >>Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 11:04:50 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:04:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: <1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys> References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> <1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, Mike. I vaguely recall that call and shall now write a little tester to see if it works as one might desire. A. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Mike Mattys wrote: > Hi Arthur, > > There is a CallByName function > I saw an example at PlanetSourceCode and a few items > in Google regarding its use. > > - > Michael R Mattys > MapPoint and Database Dev > www.mattysconsulting.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 11:12:50 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:12:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting Up a Doman - Code for Computer Info Message-ID: Sorry for the long delay in finishing this subject, been swamped! So, the last tutorial had us connecting a client to our domain. And now it's time to see what you can do with Active Directory programmatically. That was a big reason of posting this to AccessD, because as developers, you can use the information in AD (Active Directory) inside your apps. First up, computer information: (Please watch for linewrap) Function ListADComputers() On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim Comm As ADODB.Command Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim strCurrentDomain As String Dim cnn As ADODB.Connection Dim strResult As String Set cnn = New ADODB.Connection cnn.Provider = "ADsDSOObject" cnn.Open "Active Directory Provider" Set Comm = New Command Comm.ActiveConnection = cnn Comm.Properties("Page Size") = 100 Comm.Properties("Timeout") = 60 Comm.Properties("Sort On") = "Name" Comm.Properties("Cache Results") = False strCurrentDomain = GetObject("LDAP://RootDSE").Get("defaultNamingContext") strSQL = ";(objectClass=computer);Name,operatingSystem;subtree" Comm.CommandText = strSQL Set rs = Comm.Execute If rs.EOF = False Then rs.MoveFirst Do Until rs.EOF = True If Not IsNull(rs.Fields("Name").Value) Then strResult = rs.Fields("Name").Value If Not IsNull(rs.Fields("operatingSystem").Value) Then strResult = strResult & " - OS: " & rs.Fields("operatingSystem").Value Else strResult = strResult & " - OS: UNKNOWN" End If Debug.Print strResult End If rs.MoveNext Loop End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing Set Comm = Nothing cnn.Close Set cnn = Nothing Exit Function ErrorHandler: If Err.Number = -2147023541 Then Err.Clear Else If Err.Number = 457 Then Resume Next Else MsgBox Err.Number & " - " & Err.Description End If End If End Function As you can see, you can use ADO and LDAP to query Active Directory. In the query structure, you are telling LDAP that you are querying for the object class 'computer'. Here is a link to show you what else is available for that class: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms680987(VS.85).aspx A little explanation, on the 'derived from' column, that is telling you where that information is coming from, so 'Address' is coming from a Person class, so it's not native to a computer class. How to use this, let's say we want the service packs, the query would be: strSQL = ";(objectClass=computer);Name,operatingSystem,operatingSystemServicePac k;subtree" Note that on the page from the link, it doesn't show 'operatingSystemServicePack', there are spaces or dashes, clicking on that property will give you the LDAP display name, which is what you need to use in the query. Then, in our sample function, just add this part after the first If Not Isnull, else, end if: (Watch for line wrap) If Not IsNull(rs.Fields("operatingSystemServicePack").Value) Then strResult = strResult & " - Role: " & rs.Fields("operatingSystemServicePack").Value Else strResult = strResult & " - Role: UNKNOWN" End If You can use a list of computers for all sorts of things. For general customer info, remote installation, etc. Next up, User Information! Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 12:06:17 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:06:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000f01c9f3f3$06736c80$135a4580$@spb.ru> Message-ID: ...all my clients run MS Small Business Server which provides a vpn through its Remote Connection Manager :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:09 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > Hi William, > > What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS > Live > Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on > client's > PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from > within VS2008 in debug mode etc. > > Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force > without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with > clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the > responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love > the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can > actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his > desktop, > all from your own desktop. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> > <<< snip >>> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4180 (20090623) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 23 12:06:37 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:06:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: You can pass it as a string. The problem is you can't call it as a string because the engine doesn't know it's supposed to be a function. I seem to remember a way to use Eval() to handle that, but I may be just losing my mind instead. ;-} Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function I don't know why you couldn't pass the name of the function as a string???? Susan H. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Jun 23 12:15:53 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:15:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <000001c9f426$450e4ef0$cf2aecd0$@spb.ru> Hi Jim, Most of the below tasks can be solved using built-in .NET and ASP.NET features (starting ASP.NET 2.0) provided back-end database will be MS SQL. I'd not try to "reinvent the wheel" here - have a look: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yh26yfzy.aspx I have working experience with that technology, and we can try to get your tasks solved and developed as a set of sample generic components within our (dba-VB) http://northwind.codeplex.com project. The current attempt to develop there on http://northwind.codeplex.com a (follow-up to Winform's Northwind.NET) WPF and SilverLight NorthWind sample applications was only supported by Gustav and Arthur but the team of three people (including myself) is not enough for that WPF and SilverLight project, thus it's on hold currently. We can solve your tasks in "lazy mode" this summer time - let we try? (Current guess here is that there should be less than 200-300 custom code lines (not counting .aspx markup) to solve all five tasks but there will be quite some reading/learning/testing/trying...). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. > It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. > (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides > could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel > and philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little > fuss under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language > enhancements, like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Jun 23 12:15:53 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:15:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <7c7841600906230817h7d5a3fc5g1bb7619ae1682559@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906230817h7d5a3fc5g1bb7619ae1682559@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000401c9f426$482c30c0$d8849240$@spb.ru> <<< But if you're thinking of going with C#, you're stuck in curly braces land anyway -- give PHP a careful look. >>> Hi Ken, Just wanted to clarify: I'm making my family living by programming using mainly C# and MS SQL for several last years. <<< The choice of language is a personal thing. >>> Yes, that's right - but I personally felt comfortable while programming professionally starting IBM360 Fortan, PL/I, Cobol, MacroAssembler (great thing), continuing PDP11 MacroAssembler, Pascal, C/C++, DataFlex, VBA.... VB.NET/C# ... I mean for me personally (as I guess for many other developers here and everywhere) the choice of language doesn't depend on the fact are curly braces + semicolons used to separate programming language constructs or something else (etc.) - the main reason to choose one (set of) programming language(s) over the other is the (local) market demand and the development tools - and here MS development tools especially Visual Studio are the development tools I currently prefer... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Interesting Link: TIOBE Programming Community Index for June 2009 http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html PHP beats both C# and Visual Basic. Since all flavors of VB get lumped together (VB6, VBA, etc.), it is likely that PHP has around the same share as all .NET languages. This hasn't been lost on Microsoft, which has decided to work on improving their PHP support: SQL Server Driver for PHP http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2005/en/us/PHP-Driver.aspx That's the source of PHP's native SQL Server driver. Also, feel free to download the PHP on Windows Training Kit. The point is, PHP's support and usability on Windows has improved dramatically. It at least deserves serious consideration as a valid option for a web project. I'll address some comments made by others: (Shamil Salakhetdinov) >...I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather >good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't >get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always >did get stopped me.... The choice of language is a personal thing. Certainly, some people will feel more at home with VB.NET than PHP. Go with what makes you most productive. But if you're thinking of going with C#, you're stuck in curly braces land anyway -- give PHP a careful look. (Eric Barro) >...PHP is similar to classic ASP where code is often >interspersed with html tags which also makes it quite >easy to create spaghetti code... Choice of language doesn't guarantee clean code. The one large ASP.NETproject I got an 'over the shoulders' view of was a train wreck. The complexities of ASP.NET overwhelmed the young developers, who at points were barely breaking even in solving more problems than they were creating. The programmers on this list would avoid most of these problems. Discipline gained through experience counts for a lot. >...Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO >feature to be something to look forward to in any >programming language... Goto was a screamingly controversial move for the PHP team. I attended a talk by Rasmus Lerdorf, the originator of PHP, and he said it was included because certain situations, it made the code much cleaner. Pure pragmatism. Caveats acknowledged, use at your own risk. (Jim Lawrence) >...I personally believe that web based programming is >the way of the present and future but it takes extensive >knowledge of a number of disciplines... Jim's comments about the multi-disciplinary nature of web programming are on target. The back-end language is only a small part of what you will need to learn. However, lots of sophisticated web sites get built for a lot less than the $100k -- efficient frameworks on the front and back end can play a big role in making things cheaper. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4180 (20090623) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4181 (20090623) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 23 12:17:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:17:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Message-ID: Hi Charlotte Oh my, you are right: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2005-June/035493.html /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 23-06-2009 19:06 >>> You can pass it as a string. The problem is you can't call it as a string because the engine doesn't know it's supposed to be a function. I seem to remember a way to use Eval() to handle that, but I may be just losing my mind instead. ;-} Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function I don't know why you couldn't pass the name of the function as a string???? Susan H. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 12:26:12 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:26:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906231026w74d17311n32c59b7acd7ebf96@mail.gmail.com> Concatenate the function name with any paremeters then call it in an eval as such: Public Function Test(Optional strtest As String, Optional strFuncName As String) As Integer Dim strC If Nz(strFuncName, "") <> "" Then If strtest = "21040" Then 'Test = GetCompanyIDByRamcoID(strtest) strC = strFuncName & "(" & NZ(strtest,"0") & ")" Test = Eval(strC) Else Test = 0 End If Else Test = 0 End If End Function Public Function GetCompanyIDByRamcoID(Optional RamcoID As String) As Integer Dim RtnStr As String If Nz(RamcoID, "") <> "" Then Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset 'Call the stored procedure, passing it the parameter, returning recordset rs 'CurrentProject.Connection.stpGetCustInfo CustNo, rs CurrentProject.Connection.stpGetCompanyIDbyRamcoID RamcoID, rs 'Fill in the fields from the returned recordset If Not rs.BOF And Not rs.EOF Then RtnStr = IIf(Nz(rs![CompanyID], 0) = "", 0, rs![CompanyID]) Else RtnStr = 0 End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing Else RtnStr = 0 End If GetCompanyIDByRamcoID = RtnStr End Function On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:24 AM, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? > The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in > various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the > code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with > this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to > wonder > whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call > rather than code the CASE statement. > A. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 12:38:14 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:38:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Setting up a Domain : Code for Listing Users Message-ID: Here's a function to list User Data: (Watch for line wrap) Function ListADUsers() On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim Comm As ADODB.Command Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim strCurrentDomain As String Dim cnn As ADODB.Connection Dim strResult As String Set cnn = New ADODB.Connection cnn.Provider = "ADsDSOObject" cnn.Open "Active Directory Provider" Set Comm = New Command Comm.ActiveConnection = cnn Comm.Properties("Page Size") = 100 Comm.Properties("Timeout") = 60 Comm.Properties("Sort On") = "samAccountName" Comm.Properties("Cache Results") = False strCurrentDomain = GetObject("LDAP://RootDSE").Get("defaultNamingContext") strSQL = ";(&(objectCategory=person)(objectClass=user));samAccountName,Name,sn,g ivenName,AdsPath,userAccountControl;subtree" Comm.CommandText = strSQL Set rs = Comm.Execute If rs.EOF = False Then rs.MoveFirst Do Until rs.EOF = True strResult = UCase(rs.Fields(0).Value) If Not IsNull(rs.Fields(3).Value) Then strResult = strResult & " FirstName: " & rs.Fields(3).Value If Not IsNull(rs.Fields(2).Value) Then strResult = strResult & " LastName: " & rs.Fields(2).Value If Not IsNull(rs.Fields(1).Value) Then strResult = strResult & " FullName: " & rs.Fields(1).Value If Not IsNull(rs.Fields(4).Value) Then strResult = strResult & " ADSString: " & rs.Fields(4).Value If Not IsNull(rs.Fields(5).Value) Then strResult = strResult & " userAccountControl: " & rs.Fields(5).Value Debug.Print strResult rs.MoveNext Loop End If rs.Close Set rs = Nothing Set Comm = Nothing cnn.Close Set cnn = Nothing Exit Function ErrorHandler: If Err.Number = -2147023541 Then Err.Clear Else If Err.Number = 457 Then Resume Next Else MsgBox Err.Number & " - " & Err.Description End If End If End Function Same as the Computer object, that MSDN site can be used to look at the fields for a User object. Some interesting notes. Exchange 2000 (and later) is integrated with Active Directory, so you can get user email addresses, however, a user can have more then one email address, so to get the default address: On Error GoTo ErrorHandler Dim user 'As IADsUser Set user = GetObject(ADSString) EmailAddress = user.EmailAddress Exit Property ErrorHandler: Err.Clear EmailAddress = "" Where ADSString would be the value in the function above. In the system I built that uses the code (though I'm adding data to a class and collection, not debug.print) above, the individual class objects use the above code to supply the email address of the user in question. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Jun 23 12:49:36 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:49:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000e01c9f42a$fc81ab50$f58501f0$@spb.ru> Gustav, Charlotte, Susan, Arthur, I'd suppose that CallByName, which you have mentioned earlier in this thread, would be more appropriate for Arthur's original request: <<< Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the code-path, as it were. >>> As CallByName allows to pass object variables/refs as parameters, and Eval() doesn't allow to do that without some additional tricky VBA programming... BTW, what Arthur is trying to do is known as Abstraction Layer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction_layer as well as Strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern or Service Locator patterns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_locator_pattern which are in turn sub-cases of more generic (OO) programming principle called Inversion of Control: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversion_of_Control -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Hi Charlotte Oh my, you are right: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2005-June/035493.html /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 23-06-2009 19:06 >>> You can pass it as a string. The problem is you can't call it as a string because the engine doesn't know it's supposed to be a function. I seem to remember a way to use Eval() to handle that, but I may be just losing my mind instead. ;-} Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function I don't know why you couldn't pass the name of the function as a string???? Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4181 (20090623) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4181 (20090623) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 12:51:31 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:51:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <6DE7158799D941928E6476F093EDDF61@advancedinput.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6DE7158799D941928E6476F093EDDF61@advancedinput.com> Message-ID: <23A88BEAA4BB4B31AC37771244CD10DC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Eric: Is most of the coding being managed through the page at: https://www.roxy.com/checkout/index.jsp?process=login It sounds like you have worked around and resolved the issues that I am working with. Thanks for the information I will have to get back to you later on it. Thanks a lot. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, You can make this "portable" by creating and encapsulating this in a user control. Once you get the plumbing in place you can instantiate this user control in any web page you want to use it in. I tend to simplify these user authentication modules and stay away from ASP.NET 2.0's authentication and membership model. I just recently completed a project for Roxy.com (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini) that incorporated these features. 1. User login is handled by a User table. 2. User registrations are handled by a Contestants table. 3. Email validation is achieved by sending the user an email link that contains a confirmation code that is essentially a GUID field. There was no need to do a time-out for validating email addresses but that would be easy to implement as well. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 23 12:50:28 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 10:50:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, well that doesn't mean I'm NOT losing my mind!! LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Hi Charlotte Oh my, you are right: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2005-June/035493.html /gustav From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 12:51:56 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:51:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys> <29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Arthur ...from my treeview menu I use either of the following in a select statement 'call a function from a module, "strObjectName" is from my tblSwitchboard CallByName modules("mdlMenuFunctions"), strObjectName, VbMethod 'call a sub from the switchboard form module itself CallByName CodeContextObject, strObjectName, VbMethod, strObjectAddtnl ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Fuller" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:04 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > Thanks, Mike. I vaguely recall that call and shall now write a little > tester > to see if it works as one might desire. > A. > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Mike Mattys > wrote: > >> Hi Arthur, >> >> There is a CallByName function >> I saw an example at PlanetSourceCode and a few items >> in Google regarding its use. >> >> - >> Michael R Mattys >> MapPoint and Database Dev >> www.mattysconsulting.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 13:01:13 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:01:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Eric: Do you have any experience with JASON? I have heard it is excellent for handling browser to server data management... I have gone as far as AJAX and dabbled with XML but no further. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, I agree with you on the paradigm shift to web applications as opposed to desktop applications. In most cases however, those coming from a desktop-based environment tend to have a hard time transitioning because desktop apps tend to grab all of the data at once since there is often no need to take into account accessing network resources and all processing is done on the local machine. With a web-based approach one has to understand the client-server interaction. A good approach would be to find someone who is good with computer graphics, CSS, HTML and page layouting. When I worked on the Roxy project (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini), I worked with a good buddy of mine who took care of converting the Photoshop design files (PSDs) into HTML and CSS. I then converted the controls to ASP.NET controls and we use Visual SourceSafe for version control collaborating over the web. The tougher piece of the puzzle has to do with browser data flow and understanding how all the dynamic magic takes place. I'm currently working with David Emerson on a project where he takes care of the Access desktop version of an application he designed and developed and I took over the web version development. It's quite an involved process but I believe that we've been able to demonstrate that the process works (right David?). Eric P.S. Shamil, you like ESET's NOD32 as well I see? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Shamil: I tend to agree with you that .Net is the way to go as now I have some many different technologies to support it is hard to master any. What I need is a steady gig with .Net... say 6 months and away I go. Right now a client is giving me a few weeks MS Access with an ongoing support contract... I have even suggested an ASP.Net web based solution but they didn't bite. I personally believe that web based programming is the way of the present and future but it takes extensive knowledge of a number of disciplines. Unless you are working on a team effort, a successful programmer/contractor has to be competent with: 1. Computer Graphics.. Photoshop and Illustrator along with excellent design understanding (Even Flash and now Silver Light). 2. A good understanding of FE layout and presentation; HTML, CSS and JavaScript. 3. A good knowledge of browser data flow, ASP.Net, AJAX, SOAP, XML... etc. 4. Then there is BE technology, SQL (MS, Oracle, MySQL), Cloud technology, Hosting and various other mash-ups. I am sure you guys can add plenty to that list but I think I have covered the highlights. ...and people wonder why a good custom built commercial web site cost 100K and if the site is to remain fresh and current that 100K is only about 20% of what the long-term support fees will come to. I know of many successful commercial sites (companies which do most of the work through the web) that have a team of 10 or more techs working full-time. If I was not so lazy (translation; 25 years younger) I would be trying to start up another company. To make a short story long... I agree with you that ASP.Net is the technology to learn. Jim PS The ASP.Net problem will have to wait until the paying gig is finished... and oh yes, the inside house look like a bomb exploded... I am in the middle of Reno hell as well. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 13:03:11 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:03:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: Message-ID: <2F4BEB0CD87D443190074D99439557DF@jislaptopdev> ...you're debating yourself ...a sure sign of ...oh, I forget :( William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Charlotte Foust" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:50 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > Yes, well that doesn't mean I'm NOT losing my mind!! LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:17 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > > Hi Charlotte > > Oh my, you are right: > > http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2005-June/035493.html > > /gustav > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at airtelmail.in Tue Jun 23 13:18:12 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:48:12 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003b01c9f42f$3afeb0e0$255fa27a@personald6374f> Arthur, A function can be called by applying Eval() function upon a string variable holding the name of the function along with its arguments - if any. A procedure can be run using Application.Run command. Here, the first argument is just the name of procedure, followed by optional other arguments representing arguments meant for the procedure. A procedure disguised as function (no return value) can be run by using Eval() function. Sample test routine given below, demonstrates the syntax applicable in the three different cases outlined above: '============================ Sub Test() Dim strCall As String ' Call a function with return value ' using Eval() function. strCall = "Fn_Test_01('T')" Debug.Print Eval(strCall) ' Run a procedure ' (using Application.Run command) strCall = "P_Test_02" Application.Run strCall, "ABC" ' Note - Trying to invoke above procedure via ' Eval() function will attract error ' (Function not found) ' Call a procedure disguised as function (No return value) ' using Eval() function. strCall = "Fn_Test_03('KLM')" Debug.Print Eval(strCall) ' Prints Null in immediate window End Sub '============================ Sample functions / procedures called in the test routine above, are also given below. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ' Sample functions & procedures '===================================== Function Fn_Test_01(InputValue As String) As Boolean MsgBox "This is Fn_Test_01" Fn_Test_01 = IIf(InputValue = "T", True, False) End Function '-------------------------------------------------------- Sub P_Test_02(InputValue As String) MsgBox "This is P_Test_02" & _ vbCrLf & "Input = " & InputValue End Sub '-------------------------------------------------------- Function Fn_Test_03(InputValue As String) MsgBox "This is Fn_Test_03" & _ vbCrLf & "Input = " & InputValue End Function '====================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Fuller To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 20:54 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to wonder whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call rather than code the CASE statement. A. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 13:29:07 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:29:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4591879648504906A14436D77A3E45B6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi guys, Additional info: It is built on top of Hamachi, a local company that LogMeIn bought up a few years back... I use Hamachi (https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/list.asp) in conjunction with Subversion (http://tortoisesvn.net/downloads)to do remote secure backups... not a combination initial intented for the products but works on any server Windows/Linux 32/64 bit and it can all be scripted as well. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Shamil We use the basic version of LogMeIn, the Free version. Works extremely well, is very fast, bumps through any firewall, and uses 256 encryption. http://www.logmein.com I even use it to remote control my own workstation from home rather than remote desktop - with no VPN. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-06-2009 13:09 >>> Hi William, What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS Live Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on client's PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from within VS2008 in debug mode etc. Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, all from your own desktop. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea > how good they are. > > Jim > <<< snip >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 13:29:48 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:29:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A40C915.3020609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000f01c9f3f3$06736c80$135a4580$@spb.ru> <4A40C915.3020609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9AD404106C3B41F892D238944C30F66D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good call John... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Shamil, My preference is Hamachi to create a VPN direct to an individual desktop, then I use VNC. there are issues if the remote end has a slow internet connection but it works and is all readily available. Professional firewalls can easily shut down Hamachi however so it works best for small clients. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi William, > > What tool(s) do you use to get at clients' PCs? - I have used to use MS Live > Messenger and it worked well - I have worked with VS2008 running on client's > PC, and I have made fixes in the source code, then run application from > within VS2008 in debug mode etc. > > Working that way isn't safe probably as I guess data flow back and force > without encryption but my client didn't care about that issue... > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:35 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > ...amen to the remote in ...this is my preferred method of working with > clients now ...I can be on their desktop in a matter of seconds, the > responsiveness is almost as good as if I was setting there, and they love > the immediate support ...it makes a world of difference when you can > actually talk to the client at the same time you're looking at his desktop, > all from your own desktop. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:17 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> > <<< snip >>> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature > database 4180 (20090623) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 13:53:25 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:53:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <45CB32C65B31478E978FF54739C157EF@SusanOne> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> <45CB32C65B31478E978FF54739C157EF@SusanOne> Message-ID: Hi Susan: But PRISMS (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/6665) purpose is the integration of desk-top apps into the internet. Like SHARE POINT (http://www.microsoft.com/online/en-ca/trial.mspx?WT.srch=1) and JOOMAL (http://www.joomla.org)... Then there is HyperOffice which I have no idea what it is... I definitely like the idea of doing mashups with various technologies and that is all being made possible with the associated browser interface(s) and protocols. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? But then, Firefox comes along with Prism so you can use web-applications like desktop applications! How odd is that? Susan H. > Jim, > > I agree with you on the paradigm shift to web applications as opposed to > desktop applications. In most cases however, those coming from a > desktop-based environment tend to have a hard time transitioning because > desktop apps tend to grab all of the data at once since there is often no > need to take into account accessing network resources and all processing > is > done on the local machine. With a web-based approach one has to understand > the client-server interaction. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 14:01:10 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:01:10 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906220254v780793f3g4b319ec9ac89cd48@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906220254v780793f3g4b319ec9ac89cd48@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090623190454.RYEV20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks for everyone's suggestions - working through them now. Arthur - I replaced the sproc with a view. This worked when I hardcoded the location into the select statement. However I need to use a parameter for filtering (not sure if you can do this with views). Here is an example of a sproc: ALTER PROCEDURE [dbo].[spfrmLAWSDensity] ( @Location varchar(50) ) AS SET NOCOUNT ON; SELECT dbo.tblLAWSDensity.* FROM dbo.tblContainer INNER JOIN dbo.tblLAWSDensity ON dbo.tblContainer.ContainerID = dbo.tblLAWSDensity.ContainerID WHERE dbo.tblContainer.Location = @Location ORDER BY dbo.tblLAWSDensity.DateFrom, dbo.tblContainer.ListOrder Even though the view worked, if I hardcode the location into the sproc and remove the parameter I still get my error. David At 22/06/2009, you wrote: >Something else that you may want to try, David -- replace the stored >procedure with a view that does the same Select and then try to edit the >same row twice. >A. > >On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 5:07 AM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > > > David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away > > the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > > I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > > Max > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > > Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > > The database is used to track stock for a number > > of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > > Most of the record sources are stored procedures > > that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > > are for sorting the records - for example a > > products table is joined to the inventory table > > so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > > I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > > I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > > been changed by another user . " error when I > > try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > > form. > > > > I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > > include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > > Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > > be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 14:05:47 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:05:47 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Max, Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? David At 22/06/2009, you wrote: >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > >Max > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > >The database is used to track stock for a number >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables >are for sorting the records - for example a >products table is joined to the inventory table >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has >been changed by another user . " error when I >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous >form. > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >Wellington, New Zealand > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 14:04:06 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:04:06 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <380-2200961221234539@M2W017.mail2web.com> References: <380-2200961221234539@M2W017.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <20090623190459.RYOX20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks Rocky, In this case it is not a subform but a main form (continuous). The only other form open is a main form which the user enters their location on. The main form does not have a record source. The only data is in a combo box which gets the location list from the location table. David At 23/06/2009, you wrote: >David: > >I had this problem recently with an Access FE/BE. The problem occurred on >a subform which had as its record source a query which included a table >that was also included in the record source of the main form. > >IIRC, the solution turned out to be requerying the main form from the >subform. > >But I don't know if your app has the same condition. > >HTH > >Rocky > > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: David Emerson newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:46:19 +1200 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > >The database is used to track stock for a number >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables >are for sorting the records - for example a >products table is joined to the inventory table >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has >been changed by another user " error when I >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous >form. > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >Wellington, New Zealand > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web - Check your email from the web at >http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 14:11:19 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:11:19 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Message-ID: <20090623191007.GQHJ16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Here are further details of my form setup: Unique Table: tblLAWSDensity Resync Command: SELECT dbo.tblLAWSDensity.* FROM dbo.tblContainer INNER JOIN dbo.tblLAWSDensity ON dbo.tblContainer.ContainerID = dbo.tblLAWSDensity.ContainerID WHERE dbo.tblContainer.Location = ? Input Parameters: @Location = Forms!frmMainMenu!LocationFilter Stored Procedure: ALTER PROCEDURE [dbo].[spfrmLAWSDensity] ( @Location varchar(50) ) AS SET NOCOUNT ON; SELECT dbo.tblLAWSDensity.* FROM dbo.tblContainer INNER JOIN dbo.tblLAWSDensity ON dbo.tblContainer.ContainerID = dbo.tblLAWSDensity.ContainerID WHERE dbo.tblContainer.Location = @Location ORDER BY dbo.tblLAWSDensity.DateFrom, dbo.tblContainer.ListOrder David At 22/06/2009, you wrote: >Something else that you may want to try, David -- replace the stored >procedure with a view that does the same Select and then try to edit the >same row twice. >A. > >On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 5:07 AM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > > > David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away > > the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > > I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > > Max > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > > Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > > The database is used to track stock for a number > > of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > > Most of the record sources are stored procedures > > that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > > are for sorting the records - for example a > > products table is joined to the inventory table > > so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > > I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > > I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > > been changed by another user . " error when I > > try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > > form. > > > > I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > > include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > > Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > > be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 14:14:44 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:14:44 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Message-ID: <20090623191333.HDMB16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> One further piece of information. After I try to change the same record twice and I have clicked on the drop changes button in the write conflict box I get a further error message: "Conversion failed when converting the nvar char 'LYTT' to data type int." "LYTT' is the location Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 14:39:49 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:39:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed to be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if you do not agree with me. ;-) It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data at the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all with full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous hits). Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 14:42:34 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:42:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <7c7841600906230817h7d5a3fc5g1bb7619ae1682559@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906230817h7d5a3fc5g1bb7619ae1682559@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8B0F135F4DD04AB3BEB476FA1B326F43@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Kenneth: I think an application developer (contractor) should competent with both languages. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Interesting Link: TIOBE Programming Community Index for June 2009 http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html PHP beats both C# and Visual Basic. Since all flavors of VB get lumped together (VB6, VBA, etc.), it is likely that PHP has around the same share as all .NET languages. This hasn't been lost on Microsoft, which has decided to work on improving their PHP support: SQL Server Driver for PHP http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver/2005/en/us/PHP-Driver.aspx That's the source of PHP's native SQL Server driver. Also, feel free to download the PHP on Windows Training Kit. The point is, PHP's support and usability on Windows has improved dramatically. It at least deserves serious consideration as a valid option for a web project. I'll address some comments made by others: (Shamil Salakhetdinov) >...I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather >good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't >get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always >did get stopped me.... The choice of language is a personal thing. Certainly, some people will feel more at home with VB.NET than PHP. Go with what makes you most productive. But if you're thinking of going with C#, you're stuck in curly braces land anyway -- give PHP a careful look. (Eric Barro) >...PHP is similar to classic ASP where code is often >interspersed with html tags which also makes it quite >easy to create spaghetti code... Choice of language doesn't guarantee clean code. The one large ASP.NETproject I got an 'over the shoulders' view of was a train wreck. The complexities of ASP.NET overwhelmed the young developers, who at points were barely breaking even in solving more problems than they were creating. The programmers on this list would avoid most of these problems. Discipline gained through experience counts for a lot. >...Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO >feature to be something to look forward to in any >programming language... Goto was a screamingly controversial move for the PHP team. I attended a talk by Rasmus Lerdorf, the originator of PHP, and he said it was included because certain situations, it made the code much cleaner. Pure pragmatism. Caveats acknowledged, use at your own risk. (Jim Lawrence) >...I personally believe that web based programming is >the way of the present and future but it takes extensive >knowledge of a number of disciplines... Jim's comments about the multi-disciplinary nature of web programming are on target. The back-end language is only a small part of what you will need to learn. However, lots of sophisticated web sites get built for a lot less than the $100k -- efficient frameworks on the front and back end can play a big role in making things cheaper. -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 23 14:49:23 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 05:49:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4131C3.25696.C33A9F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Max, Your examples don't use indentation which is the key to readable code. I find the second example below much more logical and easy to follow that the first. 1. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Exithere: Do some more Do some more Do some more 2. If then Do something Else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Endif Do some more Do some more Do some more On 23 Jun 2009 at 16:31, Max Wanadoo wrote: > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something > to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > > > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > > > > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > > changes under Linux/Apache. > > > > PHP Drawbacks: > > > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > > general-purpose, use something else. > > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > > > -Ken > > aseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 14:53:37 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 12:53:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <94135B5B64584E46850B52AB90FBE9BA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Arther: Yes there is. I have a friend, who is a bit of a guru in MS SQL and he built an entire database system using, and don't quote me, the EVAL() statement to use function names passed back and forth through the procedures. The whole thing ran like a object database; even the function names were stored in tables... very slick. I have a copy of the code but could not get it to work as some of the external processes were "C" and definitely not my forte. I will try and get you some more info when things quiet down. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the code-path, as it were. Yes, one could write a CASE statement to deal with this, and that is exactly what my current code does. But it set me to wonder whether it's possible to pass the name of the function/procedure to call rather than code the CASE statement. A. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 15:00:21 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:00:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, misconception about the .mdb behind the web. It all depends how you have the folder structure and IIS setup. For instance, let's say I setup a webserver with an E: drive. I setup the following folders: E:\InternetSite E:\InternetMDB If the web users only get access to the files on E:\InternetSite, but my code works with an .mdb located in InternetMDB, the database is not 'open' to the world. Now, admittedly, if you can hack through a firewall and IIS, to get local folder access to a webserver....well, you should be making huge bucks! ;) I am not saying that an .mdb should always be used, there are still advantages to using SQL Server behind a website. However, a lot of the disadvantages of an .mdb go away, when used as a 'local' mdb on a webserver. 'Multiple connections' are really seen as one user in the database. Unless your website has hundreds of simultaneous users doing something at the same time, an .mdb can handle quite a load. In an optimized database, reads are lightning fast, and writes are pretty snappy too. Want to see how much data an .mdb can handle, and how fast? Go ahead and setup web logging to an ODBC .mdb. That thing will run like a champ! And using ADO's Jet OLE driver, wow. Also, for future discussions on this, keep in mind I almost never create 'bound' applications (not in the last 7 or 8 years at least). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed to be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if you do not agree with me. ;-) It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data at the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all with full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous hits). Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 23 15:22:43 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:22:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A413993.17909.C522D76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You can only use BSB and similar applications to grab a website which is built of simple static HTML pages. They just trawl through a site following all the links on all exposed pages starting from the root (index.html ???) and store everything returned by HTTP GET requests. Some go a step further and try to get a listing of every file in each exposed directory, but if there is no direct link on a served up page to any file in a directory, the application won't know that the directory exists. If your site uses PHP, ASP, CGI etc etc and ANY form of database, even a simple text file, BSB will not find it unless there is a specific link to it on a page served up. It won't even identify the use of Server Side Includes. If you use SSI for a standard header/footer on each page, BSB and its ilk will not retrieve the include file, it will store each page as server There are On 23 Jun 2009 at 12:39, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be > copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored > at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through > your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. > > If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app > called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see > how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 15:28:09 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:28:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 15:35:04 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:35:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) Of course what ever works for you is just fine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working a file based database across the network. However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I really use). I also have an application that used to be our request system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can switch the phone list to list our online servers too. While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 15:42:30 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:42:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A40C969.3000100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <082B0D0A70964321A20D6D340508B309@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: Who said PC Anywhere was dead... used it for years. One thing I liked about it is it could run DOS apps without problems... It could handle multiple resolutions simultaneously. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Remote Administrator from famatech.com is very lightweight. It defaults connections to 100 'refreshes' per second. Put that at 10, and you'll be amazed at how versatile it is. It'll actually hook into your display drivers. Very quick, very light weight (have run it on old PII's, that were cranking out other stuff, and they didn't flinch when I would remote in). While Remote Desktop is fine, one of it's quirks is that by default, remote desktop will give you a different 'session' on a machine. Now, I think that's different for a strictly client machine, but on a server, you will get a new session. And, it is VERY sluggish trying to move data back and forth, and you can overwrite your local clipboard without realizing it. Remote Admin is better at this. You can open a completely separate 'file transfer' session, which is faster then Remote Desktop's 'shared' drives. You can also manually set or get the remote clipboard, which IMO is more appropriate. Also, another MAJOR advantage is that you can 'link' sessions. For example, I have a 'server' at home, that has a port open through my firewall to hit with Remote Admin. I can use THAT remote admin server to hit any machine on my local network (so the remote admin server application will act as it's own router). Otherwise, I would have to have every machine on my network open to the world that way. Though Remote Desktop is free (Remote Admin isn't very expensive....). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I use remote desktop at home between computers. MUCH faster than anything non-native and the interface IS the desktop at the other end. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > We use the basic version of LogMeIn, the Free version. Works extremely well, is very fast, bumps through any firewall, and uses 256 encryption. > > http://www.logmein.com > > I even use it to remote control my own workstation from home rather than remote desktop - with no VPN. > > /gustav > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 15:49:05 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:49:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a413fc5.0702d00a.2601.1c66@mx.google.com> No, I haven't explained it very well. In a module, I might want to do a very simple test and then jump out. Now I could do "EXIT SUB" but I might also want to run some code in the OnExit: bit before exiting. So instead of If Some code Else Lots of code Endif Exithere: Some code Exit sub I will use the goto. Its there, its handy. It is quite clear what it is doing. I like it, I understand it. I will continue to use it, regardless of ANY reasons why it is bad practice. For me, it is good practice. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 15:51:15 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:51:15 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A4131C3.25696.C33A9F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4131C3.25696.C33A9F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a414047.0508d00a.2eb2.55f7@mx.google.com> Of course it didn't, I am typing into a laptop using outlook and my fingers. It is not structured. It is not copied. Just lil 'ol me! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 23 June 2009 20:49 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Max, Your examples don't use indentation which is the key to readable code. I find the second example below much more logical and easy to follow that the first. 1. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Exithere: Do some more Do some more Do some more 2. If then Do something Else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Do something else Endif Do some more Do some more Do some more On 23 Jun 2009 at 16:31, Max Wanadoo wrote: > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something > to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > > > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > > > > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > > changes under Linux/Apache. > > > > PHP Drawbacks: > > > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > > general-purpose, use something else. > > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > > > -Ken > > aseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 15:53:30 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:53:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> > You can always just use the Return statement. THAT is bad programming style. You should ALWAYS exit through a common exit point so that cleanup code can execute. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Max: > > Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with > eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) > > http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger > > You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large > enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start > splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil > introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link > again. (Age related I suspect) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something > to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > >> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per >> unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with >> PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. >> > > >> Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. >> * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS >> sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. >> * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no >> changes under Linux/Apache. >> >> PHP Drawbacks: >> >> * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something >> general-purpose, use something else. >> * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't >> have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. >> * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as >> it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. >> >> -Ken >> aseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 15:54:44 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:54:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes "dirty" and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you might put. Me.dirty = false Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 Me.dirty = false Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently in. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Max, Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? David At 22/06/2009, you wrote: >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > >Max > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > >The database is used to track stock for a number >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables >are for sorting the records - for example a >products table is joined to the inventory table >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has >been changed by another user . " error when I >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous >form. > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >Wellington, New Zealand > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 15:54:49 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:54:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <000001c9f426$450e4ef0$cf2aecd0$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> <000001c9f426$450e4ef0$cf2aecd0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <9DE0A22B005642A9B738097E9D19B967@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Well thank you so much for your help... I hope to use some of the technology with our own DBA site... I definitely like your ideas. I will tag this link for now. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Jim, Most of the below tasks can be solved using built-in .NET and ASP.NET features (starting ASP.NET 2.0) provided back-end database will be MS SQL. I'd not try to "reinvent the wheel" here - have a look: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/yh26yfzy.aspx I have working experience with that technology, and we can try to get your tasks solved and developed as a set of sample generic components within our (dba-VB) http://northwind.codeplex.com project. The current attempt to develop there on http://northwind.codeplex.com a (follow-up to Winform's Northwind.NET) WPF and SilverLight NorthWind sample applications was only supported by Gustav and Arthur but the team of three people (including myself) is not enough for that WPF and SilverLight project, thus it's on hold currently. We can solve your tasks in "lazy mode" this summer time - let we try? (Current guess here is that there should be less than 200-300 custom code lines (not counting .aspx markup) to solve all five tasks but there will be quite some reading/learning/testing/trying...). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. > It was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. > (The real challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides > could agree on, but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel > and philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little > fuss under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language > enhancements, like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 23 15:56:17 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) lol... I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up and I went on with my work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went out with the power. And NOT at my house, it was out all over town. This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Drew: > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming > down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > Of course what ever works for you is just fine. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal > session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working > a file based database across the network. > > However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local > system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open > Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I > really use). I also have an application that used to be our request > system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though > we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic > links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' > for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search > for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their > contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use > remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can > switch the phone list to list our online servers too. > > While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it > straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take > 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use > ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a > fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly > the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine > locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no > idea > how good they are. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Not Oracle? Yikes! > > As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that > knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal > network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and > yikes..... > > Drew > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 15:56:45 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:56:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a414191.1818d00a.552d.ffff984b@mx.google.com> Agreed! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 23 June 2009 21:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > You can always just use the Return statement. THAT is bad programming style. You should ALWAYS exit through a common exit point so that cleanup code can execute. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Max: > > Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with > eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) > > http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger > > You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large > enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start > splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil > introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link > again. (Age related I suspect) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something > to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > >> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per >> unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with >> PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. >> > > >> Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. >> * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS >> sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. >> * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no >> changes under Linux/Apache. >> >> PHP Drawbacks: >> >> * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something >> general-purpose, use something else. >> * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't >> have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. >> * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as >> it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. >> >> -Ken >> aseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 15:59:05 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:59:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 16:01:15 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:01:15 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a41429e.0506d00a.2495.56ca@mx.google.com> Definately agree with that. Not just power but BT connection was out for 2 days last week at my work place. We could still work locally. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 23 June 2009 21:56 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) lol... I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up and I went on with my work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went out with the power. And NOT at my house, it was out all over town. This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Drew: > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming > down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > Of course what ever works for you is just fine. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal > session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working > a file based database across the network. > > However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local > system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open > Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I > really use). I also have an application that used to be our request > system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though > we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic > links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' > for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search > for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their > contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use > remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can > switch the phone list to list our online servers too. > > While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it > straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take > 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use > ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a > fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly > the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine > locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no > idea > how good they are. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Not Oracle? Yikes! > > As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that > knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal > network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and > yikes..... > > Drew > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 16:22:27 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:22:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com><7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Ah, but that's only one end of the connection! You'll need that kind of speed to where you are connecting too! We used to have a shotgunned T1 situation here at work (so we had 3Mb up and down), a month ago, we dropped down to just one T1. At home, I have 6Mb down, and 384k up, so my connection 'speed' through my VPN dropped in half. Having a faster connection at home won't do anything unless work gets a big boost too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) Of course what ever works for you is just fine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working a file based database across the network. However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I really use). I also have an application that used to be our request system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can switch the phone list to list our online servers too. While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 16:24:56 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:24:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 16:28:59 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:28:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com><7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a414921.1818d00a.552d.ffff9f2f@mx.google.com> This is correct Drew. In the UK the "providers" get away with weasel words such as "..speeds up to 8Mbs". I think we should be entitle to words like "..speeds not less than..." That way it would be measureable and they could be called to task. As it is they get away with not providing the advertised speeds but still charge the advertised rates. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Ah, but that's only one end of the connection! You'll need that kind of speed to where you are connecting too! We used to have a shotgunned T1 situation here at work (so we had 3Mb up and down), a month ago, we dropped down to just one T1. At home, I have 6Mb down, and 384k up, so my connection 'speed' through my VPN dropped in half. Having a faster connection at home won't do anything unless work gets a big boost too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) Of course what ever works for you is just fine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working a file based database across the network. However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I really use). I also have an application that used to be our request system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can switch the phone list to list our online servers too. While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 16:34:37 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:34:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4a414921.1818d00a.552d.ffff9f2f@mx.google.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com><7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a414921.1818d00a.552d.ffff9f2f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: That is one reason I have stuck with DSL. You get the rate you pay for, and it's really comparable in price to cable internet. Sure, fiber would be great, but it's not offered where I am at yet. My speed is consistent 24/7. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net This is correct Drew. In the UK the "providers" get away with weasel words such as "..speeds up to 8Mbs". I think we should be entitle to words like "..speeds not less than..." That way it would be measureable and they could be called to task. As it is they get away with not providing the advertised speeds but still charge the advertised rates. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Ah, but that's only one end of the connection! You'll need that kind of speed to where you are connecting too! We used to have a shotgunned T1 situation here at work (so we had 3Mb up and down), a month ago, we dropped down to just one T1. At home, I have 6Mb down, and 384k up, so my connection 'speed' through my VPN dropped in half. Having a faster connection at home won't do anything unless work gets a big boost too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) Of course what ever works for you is just fine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working a file based database across the network. However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I really use). I also have an application that used to be our request system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can switch the phone list to list our online servers too. While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 16:36:11 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:36:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 16:47:19 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:47:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: That is definitely a good secure way to connect to a MDB database. As MS SQL Express is now free there is no reason to not use it. The SQL engine has so many more features in it that make superior choice for internet work. We are both in agreement with unbound applications. It is just that the MDB does not work well in complex multi-users environments, when it is unbound while SQL is designed to be unbound. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hmmm, misconception about the .mdb behind the web. It all depends how you have the folder structure and IIS setup. For instance, let's say I setup a webserver with an E: drive. I setup the following folders: E:\InternetSite E:\InternetMDB If the web users only get access to the files on E:\InternetSite, but my code works with an .mdb located in InternetMDB, the database is not 'open' to the world. Now, admittedly, if you can hack through a firewall and IIS, to get local folder access to a webserver....well, you should be making huge bucks! ;) I am not saying that an .mdb should always be used, there are still advantages to using SQL Server behind a website. However, a lot of the disadvantages of an .mdb go away, when used as a 'local' mdb on a webserver. 'Multiple connections' are really seen as one user in the database. Unless your website has hundreds of simultaneous users doing something at the same time, an .mdb can handle quite a load. In an optimized database, reads are lightning fast, and writes are pretty snappy too. Want to see how much data an .mdb can handle, and how fast? Go ahead and setup web logging to an ODBC .mdb. That thing will run like a champ! And using ADO's Jet OLE driver, wow. Also, for future discussions on this, keep in mind I almost never create 'bound' applications (not in the last 7 or 8 years at least). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed to be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if you do not agree with me. ;-) It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data at the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all with full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous hits). Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 16:48:04 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:48:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 16:52:44 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:52:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A413993.17909.C522D76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A413993.17909.C522D76@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart: That is true. It is just that I ran across simple sites with MDBs in them that are little more than HTML sites. As soon as a full blown web based language is used the results may not be secure but the coding is. Your email ended abruptly...? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net You can only use BSB and similar applications to grab a website which is built of simple static HTML pages. They just trawl through a site following all the links on all exposed pages starting from the root (index.html ???) and store everything returned by HTTP GET requests. Some go a step further and try to get a listing of every file in each exposed directory, but if there is no direct link on a served up page to any file in a directory, the application won't know that the directory exists. If your site uses PHP, ASP, CGI etc etc and ANY form of database, even a simple text file, BSB will not find it unless there is a specific link to it on a page served up. It won't even identify the use of Server Side Includes. If you use SSI for a standard header/footer on each page, BSB and its ilk will not retrieve the include file, it will store each page as server There are On 23 Jun 2009 at 12:39, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be > copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored > at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through > your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. > > If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app > called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see > how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 16:54:34 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:54:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a413fc5.0702d00a.2601.1c66@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a413fc5.0702d00a.2601.1c66@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <416B34B17C9C474D85D109AFB5639FF5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good enough Max... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? No, I haven't explained it very well. In a module, I might want to do a very simple test and then jump out. Now I could do "EXIT SUB" but I might also want to run some code in the OnExit: bit before exiting. So instead of If Some code Else Lots of code Endif Exithere: Some code Exit sub I will use the goto. Its there, its handy. It is quite clear what it is doing. I like it, I understand it. I will continue to use it, regardless of ANY reasons why it is bad practice. For me, it is good practice. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 16:53:38 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:53:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. My bad.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 17:00:09 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:09 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090623215935.FDSV16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Tried this with no success. I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I can change it again but this is not a good solution as the current record then becomes the first one. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes "dirty" >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you >might put. > >Me.dirty = false >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 >Me.dirty = false > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently >in. > >Max > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >Max, > >Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use >me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? > >David > >At 22/06/2009, you wrote: > >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away > >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > >Max > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > >The database is used to track stock for a number > >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures > >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > >are for sorting the records - for example a > >products table is joined to the inventory table > >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > >been changed by another user . " error when I > >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > >form. > > > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > >Regards > > > >David Emerson > >Dalyn Software Ltd > >Wellington, New Zealand From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 17:00:57 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:00:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: In light of using GOTO and GOSUB functions RETURN seemed less onerous... Yes, one exit point is the optimum. I try to keep my classes or function small so there is never a reason for even considering more than one exit point. (Big complex procedures are hard to follow... so I try and keep it very simple... one thought one function.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > You can always just use the Return statement. THAT is bad programming style. You should ALWAYS exit through a common exit point so that cleanup code can execute. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Max: > > Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with > eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) > > http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger > > You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large > enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start > splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil > introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link > again. (Age related I suspect) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something > to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > >> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per >> unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with >> PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. >> > > >> Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. >> * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS >> sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. >> * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no >> changes under Linux/Apache. >> >> PHP Drawbacks: >> >> * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something >> general-purpose, use something else. >> * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't >> have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. >> * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as >> it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. >> >> -Ken >> aseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 17:04:04 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:04:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. My bad.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 17:05:15 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:05:15 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> That is what I was saying, Jim. I use GOTO to go to the exitpoint. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 23:01 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi John: In light of using GOTO and GOSUB functions RETURN seemed less onerous... Yes, one exit point is the optimum. I try to keep my classes or function small so there is never a reason for even considering more than one exit point. (Big complex procedures are hard to follow... so I try and keep it very simple... one thought one function.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > You can always just use the Return statement. THAT is bad programming style. You should ALWAYS exit through a common exit point so that cleanup code can execute. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Max: > > Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with > eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) > > http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger > > You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large > enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start > splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil > introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link > again. (Age related I suspect) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something > to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > >> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per >> unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with >> PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. >> > > >> Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. >> * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS >> sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. >> * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no >> changes under Linux/Apache. >> >> PHP Drawbacks: >> >> * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something >> general-purpose, use something else. >> * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't >> have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. >> * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as >> it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. >> >> -Ken >> aseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 17:05:17 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:05:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9CEB31B7209141F7BB8DAE73C62F8960@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: That is also true. There is two sides on this issue. Some of my biggest clients are going total internet while others are sticking to their onsite servers but the internet is definitely winning. Maybe I should suggest that client should seriously consider a generator or two and stick with onsite servers. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) lol... I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up and I went on with my work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went out with the power. And NOT at my house, it was out all over town. This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Drew: > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming > down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > Of course what ever works for you is just fine. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal > session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working > a file based database across the network. > > However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local > system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open > Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I > really use). I also have an application that used to be our request > system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though > we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic > links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' > for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search > for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their > contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use > remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can > switch the phone list to list our online servers too. > > While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it > straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take > 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use > ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a > fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly > the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine > locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Hi Drew: > > I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an > Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound > with ADO-OLE works well for me. > > You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no > idea > how good they are. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Not Oracle? Yikes! > > As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that > knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal > network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and > yikes..... > > Drew > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 17:07:20 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:07:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <20090623215935.FDSV16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> <20090623215935.FDSV16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4a41521c.1701d00a.1d14.6668@mx.google.com> The sequencing will depend on your dataset order. It has nothing to do with saving/writing the data. If you change the field that orders the table then of course it will change, if you don't, then it should stay the same. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: 23 June 2009 23:00 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Tried this with no success. I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I can change it again but this is not a good solution as the current record then becomes the first one. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes "dirty" >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you >might put. > >Me.dirty = false >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 >Me.dirty = false > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently >in. > >Max > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >Max, > >Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use >me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? > >David > >At 22/06/2009, you wrote: > >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away > >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > >Max > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > >The database is used to track stock for a number > >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures > >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > >are for sorting the records - for example a > >products table is joined to the inventory table > >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > >been changed by another user . " error when I > >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > >form. > > > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > >Regards > > > >David Emerson > >Dalyn Software Ltd > >Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 17:07:46 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:07:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <26D0A570E1744B5DA7B137AD19B62202@creativesystemdesigns.com> Max, True... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 17:06:25 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:06:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: We'll just have to agree to disagree here Jim. While it is free to use SQL Express, and it does have advantages over JET and an .mdb, there are still advantages the other way: It's an .mdb, you don't need Access installed to use it. A web server with ASP and ADO is all you need. It's a single file, you can copy, swap, or change the .mdb with just that file. (No detaching and reattaching of a database). It's less resource intensive....more features, more resources. Jet runs great on a local machine, which is what happens when you put an .mdb on a webserver, it's local. Development is easier with all the nifty Access tools. Access' query builder is way easier to use then Enterprise manager's query builder. Again, not saying there aren't advantages the other way, just saying that I don't think you can truly say one situation is better in all cases. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: That is definitely a good secure way to connect to a MDB database. As MS SQL Express is now free there is no reason to not use it. The SQL engine has so many more features in it that make superior choice for internet work. We are both in agreement with unbound applications. It is just that the MDB does not work well in complex multi-users environments, when it is unbound while SQL is designed to be unbound. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hmmm, misconception about the .mdb behind the web. It all depends how you have the folder structure and IIS setup. For instance, let's say I setup a webserver with an E: drive. I setup the following folders: E:\InternetSite E:\InternetMDB If the web users only get access to the files on E:\InternetSite, but my code works with an .mdb located in InternetMDB, the database is not 'open' to the world. Now, admittedly, if you can hack through a firewall and IIS, to get local folder access to a webserver....well, you should be making huge bucks! ;) I am not saying that an .mdb should always be used, there are still advantages to using SQL Server behind a website. However, a lot of the disadvantages of an .mdb go away, when used as a 'local' mdb on a webserver. 'Multiple connections' are really seen as one user in the database. Unless your website has hundreds of simultaneous users doing something at the same time, an .mdb can handle quite a load. In an optimized database, reads are lightning fast, and writes are pretty snappy too. Want to see how much data an .mdb can handle, and how fast? Go ahead and setup web logging to an ODBC .mdb. That thing will run like a champ! And using ADO's Jet OLE driver, wow. Also, for future discussions on this, keep in mind I almost never create 'bound' applications (not in the last 7 or 8 years at least). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed to be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if you do not agree with me. ;-) It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data at the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all with full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous hits). Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 17:10:42 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:10:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, it's just a physical device that allows you to use a normal phone. More like Vonage. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. My bad.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 17:16:41 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:16:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <1CC4A72042F4446190C9892F121FE797@creativesystemdesigns.com> I am looking to the day when fiber optical cable is the standard and not the exception then upload and download speeds will be dramatically improved. Our local government has run a fiber-optic backbone across the province so passing any amount of data is simple. Worked for them as staff and finally as a contractor for over 20 years and I just love doing province wide on site work as remote connections are just as fast as the local LAN. ;-) 100GB equals about 10 seconds. At home, well... back to reality. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Ah, but that's only one end of the connection! You'll need that kind of speed to where you are connecting too! We used to have a shotgunned T1 situation here at work (so we had 3Mb up and down), a month ago, we dropped down to just one T1. At home, I have 6Mb down, and 384k up, so my connection 'speed' through my VPN dropped in half. Having a faster connection at home won't do anything unless work gets a big boost too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts coming down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) Of course what ever works for you is just fine. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working a file based database across the network. However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I really use). I also have an application that used to be our request system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can switch the phone list to list our online servers too. While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound with ADO-OLE works well for me. You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no idea how good they are. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Not Oracle? Yikes! As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and yikes..... Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 17:20:12 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:20:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: Just like the phones... excellent concept.... but 30 more for less :-( That's the way it should be then the whole argument about internet vs local will be over. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 17:21:51 2009 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:21:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <742CB8DF372F46E081EC9028B7AA8AC8@stevePC> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <742CB8DF372F46E081EC9028B7AA8AC8@stevePC> Message-ID: <016201c9f451$0207e550$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Re: "...has a lot of life in it" Very doubtful. No meaningful Access contracts or work in my area in almost 9 months. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Schapel > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 11:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Tony, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tony Septav" > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:14 AM > > > ... I realize that I have to learn SQL Server and .Net or > go the way > > of the dinosaur. > > I reckon Access still has a lot of life in it. Like a real > lot. I suggest waiting until you have had a chance to assess > Access 2010 before making the dinosaur prediction. > > -- > Regards > Steve > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of > virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 17:23:40 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 23:23:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> Using the internet? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 23:11 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, it's just a physical device that allows you to use a normal phone. More like Vonage. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. My bad.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 17:27:16 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:27:16 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <4a41521c.1701d00a.1d14.6668@mx.google.com> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> <20090623215935.FDSV16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a41521c.1701d00a.1d14.6668@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090623222555.JFIE16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> It is not the sequencing that is the problem (although if the user adds a new record then the refresh will sort it into its proper order which may not be at the end of the records). The problem with refresh is that if you are working on record 6 and then tab to go to the next record then the records refresh and the cursor is not on record 1 (not 7). David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >The sequencing will depend on your dataset order. It has nothing to do with >saving/writing the data. If you change the field that orders the table then >of course it will change, if you don't, then it should stay the same. > >Max > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 23 June 2009 23:00 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >Tried this with no success. > >I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I >can change it again but this is not a good solution as the current >record then becomes the first one. > >David > >At 24/06/2009, you wrote: > >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the > >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes >"dirty" > >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > > > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you > >might put. > > > >Me.dirty = false > >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 > >Me.dirty = false > > > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently > >in. > > > >Max From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jun 23 17:27:14 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:27:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <71028EFCA40940F190C18D8C433E5446@creativesystemdesigns.com> Agreed... Drew. It may be that I have just used MS SQL for too much and Access MDB too little. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net We'll just have to agree to disagree here Jim. While it is free to use SQL Express, and it does have advantages over JET and an .mdb, there are still advantages the other way: It's an .mdb, you don't need Access installed to use it. A web server with ASP and ADO is all you need. It's a single file, you can copy, swap, or change the .mdb with just that file. (No detaching and reattaching of a database). It's less resource intensive....more features, more resources. Jet runs great on a local machine, which is what happens when you put an .mdb on a webserver, it's local. Development is easier with all the nifty Access tools. Access' query builder is way easier to use then Enterprise manager's query builder. Again, not saying there aren't advantages the other way, just saying that I don't think you can truly say one situation is better in all cases. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: That is definitely a good secure way to connect to a MDB database. As MS SQL Express is now free there is no reason to not use it. The SQL engine has so many more features in it that make superior choice for internet work. We are both in agreement with unbound applications. It is just that the MDB does not work well in complex multi-users environments, when it is unbound while SQL is designed to be unbound. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hmmm, misconception about the .mdb behind the web. It all depends how you have the folder structure and IIS setup. For instance, let's say I setup a webserver with an E: drive. I setup the following folders: E:\InternetSite E:\InternetMDB If the web users only get access to the files on E:\InternetSite, but my code works with an .mdb located in InternetMDB, the database is not 'open' to the world. Now, admittedly, if you can hack through a firewall and IIS, to get local folder access to a webserver....well, you should be making huge bucks! ;) I am not saying that an .mdb should always be used, there are still advantages to using SQL Server behind a website. However, a lot of the disadvantages of an .mdb go away, when used as a 'local' mdb on a webserver. 'Multiple connections' are really seen as one user in the database. Unless your website has hundreds of simultaneous users doing something at the same time, an .mdb can handle quite a load. In an optimized database, reads are lightning fast, and writes are pretty snappy too. Want to see how much data an .mdb can handle, and how fast? Go ahead and setup web logging to an ODBC .mdb. That thing will run like a champ! And using ADO's Jet OLE driver, wow. Also, for future discussions on this, keep in mind I almost never create 'bound' applications (not in the last 7 or 8 years at least). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Hi Drew: The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed to be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if you do not agree with me. ;-) It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data at the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all with full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous hits). Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be stored at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected through your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction app called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to see how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that matter. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work. While Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would develop in SQL Server (or Access) first. Oracle to SQL Server, in my view, is similar to Unix to Windows. There are advantages both ways, but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset. Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website. It is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server. As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome. That is because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine. But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point of entry db. It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL Server. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net "Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????" aaaakkkkkgh... For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google " Oracle vs SQL Server" For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course). For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me: For example: "Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are not different. So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it? In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB. Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions exist only to make our life harder." - From http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023 uh huh... make a lot sense? I didn't think so... Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is. Sure it is missing a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood. Rock solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and frankly a joy to use. It also runs great on low specced PC's. I have it installed on my Dell Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves. As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle" club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to press him on it. :) cheers Darryl. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 17:31:20 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:31:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes. It's an IP phone 'jack', that plugs into your USB, allowing you to plug your normal phone into it, making VoIP calls. It is a US based system, so calls in the US are free, however, you can buy a Magic Jack, send it to someone overseas (with Internet access), and they will then have a US number. It's something like $40, which is the jack, and 1 year of service, after that, it's $20 a year for service, probably the cheapest phone service you can find. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Using the internet? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 23:11 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Yes, it's just a physical device that allows you to use a normal phone. More like Vonage. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. My bad.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jun 23 17:33:55 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:33:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <71028EFCA40940F190C18D8C433E5446@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00CFFE@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><63C48A0B50384641ADEFC0BECF12B42C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <71028EFCA40940F190C18D8C433E5446@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Well I know that feeling. You get accustomed to a certain system, and it's hard to see the advantages in other systems. Using both, I do see advantages and disadvantages both ways. For a 'quick' web based system, I stick with Access. If a system even has a remote possibility of requiring an interface that is Non-web, I will go with SQL Server. After that, it's a matter of size considerations, and if I will need SQL Server capabilities. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Agreed... Drew. It may be that I have just used MS SQL for too much and Access MDB too little. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net We'll just have to agree to disagree here Jim. While it is free to use SQL Express, and it does have advantages over JET and an .mdb, there are still advantages the other way: It's an .mdb, you don't need Access installed to use it. A web server with ASP and ADO is all you need. It's a single file, you can copy, swap, or change the .mdb with just that file. (No detaching and reattaching of a database). It's less resource intensive....more features, more resources. Jet runs great on a local machine, which is what happens when you put an .mdb on a webserver, it's local. Development is easier with all the nifty Access tools. Access' query builder is way easier to use then Enterprise manager's query builder. Again, not saying there aren't advantages the other way, just saying that I don't think you can truly say one situation is better in all cases. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From kismert at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 17:43:44 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:43:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: <7c7841600906231543w6afa2d1brece15d6587eb0985@mail.gmail.com> Ideally, I would agree with you. But practically, I don't. One's choice of language is partly personal, and as Shamil commented, partly determined by your local market. If you are pursuing web programming, it makes little sense to cover the same ground twice by learning two backend languages. I think you are better off to master one, and spend the extra time learning CSS, AJAX, Javascript, Flash, security, etc. I think the choice is fairly simple: Do you want to learn a language that enables you to do both web and Microsoft-oriented business projects? If so, a .NET language is a natural choice. Or, do you want to learn a web language that offers ubiquity of deployment across all web platforms? If so, I think PHP is better. Either path will be rewarding, but they are different paths. -Ken (Jim Lawrence) >Hi Kenneth: >I think an application developer (contractor) should competent >with both languages. >Jim From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jun 23 18:15:37 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Message-ID: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> Can you bookmark, refresh, and the recordsetclone.findfirst to get back to the orignal record? ROcky Original Message: ----------------- From: David Emerson newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:09 +1200 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Tried this with no success. I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I can change it again but this is not a good solution as the current record then becomes the first one. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes "dirty" >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you >might put. > >Me.dirty = false >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 >Me.dirty = false > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently >in. > >Max > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >Max, > >Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use >me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? > >David > >At 22/06/2009, you wrote: > >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written away > >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > >Max > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > >The database is used to track stock for a number > >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures > >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > >are for sorting the records - for example a > >products table is joined to the inventory table > >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > >been changed by another user . " error when I > >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > >form. > > > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > >Regards > > > >David Emerson > >Dalyn Software Ltd > >Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 18:36:58 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:36:58 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> References: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> I could although this only works if the user is going through the records. If they edit a field then click on some other part of the screen (eg a button) then I would want the cursor to be back on the button. If they close the form then I don't want them staying in the screen. I have done this sort of thing successfully (being able to edit records) in an XP adp/SQL2000 combination. It seems that something has changed between SQL2000 and SQL2005 so that it is not working the same. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >Can you bookmark, refresh, and the recordsetclone.findfirst to get back to >the orignal record? > >ROcky > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: David Emerson newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:09 +1200 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > >Tried this with no success. > >I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I >can change it again but this is not a good solution as the current >record then becomes the first one. > >David > >At 24/06/2009, you wrote: > >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the > >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes >"dirty" > >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > > > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you > >might put. > > > >Me.dirty = false > >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 > >Me.dirty = false > > > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently > >in. > > > >Max > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > >Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > >Max, > > > >Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use > >me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? > > > >David > > > >At 22/06/2009, you wrote: > > >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written >away > > >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > > > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > > > >Max > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson > > >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > > > >The database is used to track stock for a number > > >of locations. Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > > > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures > > >that combine multiple tables (the extra tables > > >are for sorting the records - for example a > > >products table is joined to the inventory table > > >so that the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > > > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > > > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has > > >been changed by another user . " error when I > > >try to change a record a second time when it is displayed in a continuous > > >form. > > > > > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to > > >include a timestamp field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > > > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I > > >be looking at the SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > > > > >Regards > > > > > >David Emerson > > >Dalyn Software Ltd > > >Wellington, New Zealand > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? >Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 18:58:36 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:58:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> References: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <1E22D02B7A4746E483772F7E0AEA59F6@advancedinput.com> David, Try and put a (nolock) on your SELECT statements. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp I could although this only works if the user is going through the records. If they edit a field then click on some other part of the screen (eg a button) then I would want the cursor to be back on the button. If they close the form then I don't want them staying in the screen. I have done this sort of thing successfully (being able to edit records) in an XP adp/SQL2000 combination. It seems that something has changed between SQL2000 and SQL2005 so that it is not working the same. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >Can you bookmark, refresh, and the recordsetclone.findfirst to get back >to the orignal record? > >ROcky > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: David Emerson newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:09 +1200 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > >Tried this with no success. > >I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I can >change it again but this is not a good solution as the current record >then becomes the first one. > >David > >At 24/06/2009, you wrote: > >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the > >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes >"dirty" > >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > > > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the > >OnExit you might put. > > > >Me.dirty = false > >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 Me.dirty = false > > > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are > >currently in. > > > >Max > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > >Emerson > >Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > >Max, > > > >Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use > >me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? > > > >David > > > >At 22/06/2009, you wrote: > > >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't > > >written >away > > >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > > > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > > > >Max > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > > >Emerson > > >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > > > >The database is used to track stock for a number of locations. > > >Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > > > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures that combine > > >multiple tables (the extra tables are for sorting the records - for > > >example a products table is joined to the inventory table so that > > >the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > > > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > > > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has been changed by > > >another user . " error when I try to change a record a second time > > >when it is displayed in a continuous form. > > > > > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to include a timestamp > > >field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > > > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I be looking at the > > >SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > > > > >Regards > > > > > >David Emerson > > >Dalyn Software Ltd > > >Wellington, New Zealand > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on >MicrosoftR Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail > > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 18:59:40 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 16:59:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3A6C8835A5184ED2B6CFE3EDE1D233CE@advancedinput.com> Jim, I haven't tried AJAX, JSON or JQUERY...just pure ASP.NET (C#). Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Eric: Do you have any experience with JASON? I have heard it is excellent for handling browser to server data management... I have gone as far as AJAX and dabbled with XML but no further. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, I agree with you on the paradigm shift to web applications as opposed to desktop applications. In most cases however, those coming from a desktop-based environment tend to have a hard time transitioning because desktop apps tend to grab all of the data at once since there is often no need to take into account accessing network resources and all processing is done on the local machine. With a web-based approach one has to understand the client-server interaction. A good approach would be to find someone who is good with computer graphics, CSS, HTML and page layouting. When I worked on the Roxy project (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini), I worked with a good buddy of mine who took care of converting the Photoshop design files (PSDs) into HTML and CSS. I then converted the controls to ASP.NET controls and we use Visual SourceSafe for version control collaborating over the web. The tougher piece of the puzzle has to do with browser data flow and understanding how all the dynamic magic takes place. I'm currently working with David Emerson on a project where he takes care of the Access desktop version of an application he designed and developed and I took over the web version development. It's quite an involved process but I believe that we've been able to demonstrate that the process works (right David?). Eric P.S. Shamil, you like ESET's NOD32 as well I see? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Shamil: I tend to agree with you that .Net is the way to go as now I have some many different technologies to support it is hard to master any. What I need is a steady gig with .Net... say 6 months and away I go. Right now a client is giving me a few weeks MS Access with an ongoing support contract... I have even suggested an ASP.Net web based solution but they didn't bite. I personally believe that web based programming is the way of the present and future but it takes extensive knowledge of a number of disciplines. Unless you are working on a team effort, a successful programmer/contractor has to be competent with: 1. Computer Graphics.. Photoshop and Illustrator along with excellent design understanding (Even Flash and now Silver Light). 2. A good understanding of FE layout and presentation; HTML, CSS and JavaScript. 3. A good knowledge of browser data flow, ASP.Net, AJAX, SOAP, XML... etc. 4. Then there is BE technology, SQL (MS, Oracle, MySQL), Cloud technology, Hosting and various other mash-ups. I am sure you guys can add plenty to that list but I think I have covered the highlights. ...and people wonder why a good custom built commercial web site cost 100K and if the site is to remain fresh and current that 100K is only about 20% of what the long-term support fees will come to. I know of many successful commercial sites (companies which do most of the work through the web) that have a team of 10 or more techs working full-time. If I was not so lazy (translation; 25 years younger) I would be trying to start up another company. To make a short story long... I agree with you that ASP.Net is the technology to learn. Jim PS The ASP.Net problem will have to wait until the paying gig is finished... and oh yes, the inside house look like a bomb exploded... I am in the middle of Reno hell as well. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at verizon.net Tue Jun 23 19:07:13 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:07:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <23A88BEAA4BB4B31AC37771244CD10DC@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6DE7158799D941928E6476F093EDDF61@advancedinput.com> <23A88BEAA4BB4B31AC37771244CD10DC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, The environment we had to work with had a little wrinkle in that they have their own system of tracking users across pages. They used iframes to frame around our ASPX pages which made it easy for us to debug and test within our own environment and then upload to their servers. The link I included in my email translates to their very own generated link which meant that I had to properly reference pages from behind the scenes. The user logins and the management of the users was simple and easy to implement. We didn't use any 3rd party controls or tools. Everything is pure ASP.NET (C#) with javascript for client-side interaction. Even the image handling (uploading and resizing on the fly) is done with C# googled from many places on the web. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Eric: Is most of the coding being managed through the page at: https://www.roxy.com/checkout/index.jsp?process=login It sounds like you have worked around and resolved the issues that I am working with. Thanks for the information I will have to get back to you later on it. Thanks a lot. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, You can make this "portable" by creating and encapsulating this in a user control. Once you get the plumbing in place you can instantiate this user control in any web page you want to use it in. I tend to simplify these user authentication modules and stay away from ASP.NET 2.0's authentication and membership model. I just recently completed a project for Roxy.com (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini) that incorporated these features. 1. User login is handled by a User table. 2. User registrations are handled by a Contestants table. 3. Email validation is achieved by sending the user an email link that contains a confirmation code that is essentially a GUID field. There was no need to do a time-out for validating email addresses but that would be easy to implement as well. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 19:36:23 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:36:23 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <1E22D02B7A4746E483772F7E0AEA59F6@advancedinput.com> References: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <1E22D02B7A4746E483772F7E0AEA59F6@advancedinput.com> Message-ID: <20090624003454.BFUO20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> No joy. At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >David, > >Try and put a (nolock) on your SELECT statements. > >Eric > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:37 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >I could although this only works if the user is going through the records. >If they edit a field then click on some other part of the screen (eg a >button) then I would want the cursor to be back on the button. If they >close the form then I don't want them staying in the screen. > >I have done this sort of thing successfully (being able to edit records) in >an XP adp/SQL2000 combination. It seems that something has changed between >SQL2000 and SQL2005 so that it is not working the same. > >David > >At 24/06/2009, you wrote: > > >Can you bookmark, refresh, and the recordsetclone.findfirst to get back > >to the orignal record? > > > >ROcky > > > >Original Message: > >----------------- > >From: David Emerson newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz > >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:00:09 +1200 > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > > >Tried this with no success. > > > >I do note that if I refresh the form data after changing a record I can > >change it again but this is not a good solution as the current record > >then becomes the first one. > > > >David > > > >At 24/06/2009, you wrote: > > >Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the > > >oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes > >"dirty" > > >and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. > > > > > >You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the > > >OnExit you might put. > > > > > >Me.dirty = false > > >Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 Me.dirty = false > > > > > >Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are > > >currently in. > > > > > >Max > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > > >Emerson > > >Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 > > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > > >Max, > > > > > >Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use > > >me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? > > > > > >David > > > > > >At 22/06/2009, you wrote: > > > >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't > > > >written > >away > > > >the previous edit you made on the same machine. > > > > > > > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > > > > > > > >Max > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David > > > >Emerson > > > >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 > > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > > > > > > > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > > > > > > > >The database is used to track stock for a number of locations. > > > >Each stored procedure has a filter for location > > > > > > > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures that combine > > > >multiple tables (the extra tables are for sorting the records - for > > > >example a products table is joined to the inventory table so that > > > >the inventory can be sorted by product order). > > > > > > > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > > > > > > > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has been changed by > > > >another user . " error when I try to change a record a second time > > > >when it is displayed in a continuous form. > > > > > > > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to include a timestamp > > > >field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > > > > > > > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I be looking at the > > > >SQL security setting for roles? > > > > > > > > > > > >Regards > > > > > > > >David Emerson > > > >Dalyn Software Ltd > > > >Wellington, New Zealand > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >mail2web.com - Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on > >MicrosoftR Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail > > > > > > > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 19:41:14 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:41:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <20090624003454.BFUO20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> References: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <1E22D02B7A4746E483772F7E0AEA59F6@advancedinput.com> <20090624003454.BFUO20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906231741m2a51fa15tdf963ebaae10c708@mail.gmail.com> I return to my former suggestion: create a view which does the same thing as your sproc, and run that instead. Thanks to Access's filtering ability, you can easily scope this to the particular record(s) you want One proviso, which is sure you get you into trouble: if your subform(s) depend on a query that involves the parent table, lose the parent-table link. Else you are guaranteed to get into trouble. A. From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 20:08:37 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:08:37 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906231741m2a51fa15tdf963ebaae10c708@mail.gmail.co m> References: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <1E22D02B7A4746E483772F7E0AEA59F6@advancedinput.com> <20090624003454.BFUO20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <29f585dd0906231741m2a51fa15tdf963ebaae10c708@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090624010716.UHFD16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Ah, I couldn't see how I could pass the location parameter to the view but filtering would work for small tables. In one case there are several thousand records and growing each month. If possible I would prefer this to be filtered at the SQL end rather than the Access end. I will test it out anyway. Thanks. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >I return to my former suggestion: create a view which does the same thing as >your sproc, and run that instead. Thanks to Access's filtering ability, you >can easily scope this to the particular record(s) you want >One proviso, which is sure you get you into trouble: if your subform(s) >depend on a query that involves the parent table, lose the parent-table >link. Else you are guaranteed to get into trouble. > >A. >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Tue Jun 23 20:58:41 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:58:41 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <20090624010716.UHFD16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.n z> References: <380-220096223231537803@M2W033.mail2web.com> <20090623233540.YTIK16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <1E22D02B7A4746E483772F7E0AEA59F6@advancedinput.com> <20090624003454.BFUO20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <29f585dd0906231741m2a51fa15tdf963ebaae10c708@mail.gmail.com> <20090624010716.UHFD16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20090624015731.MTGH11383.mta03.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Eureka! I was stumbling around with Arthur's suggestion about views and filters and came up with an error to the effect that you can't change a timestamp field. It had been included in the SELECT dbo.tblLAWSDensity.* part of the view. So I changed the sproc to list all the fields individually except for the timestamp and it worked. I now have filtering on the server side. This now makes sense because (I am guessing here) as the timestamp field was included in the sproc, it was being updated whenever a new record was being sent back to the server, therefore not matching with the old value of the timestamp. Thanks everyone for your input. David At 24/06/2009, you wrote: >Ah, I couldn't see how I could pass the location parameter to the >view but filtering would work for small tables. > >In one case there are several thousand records and growing each >month. If possible I would prefer this to be filtered at the SQL end >rather than the Access end. > >I will test it out anyway. Thanks. > >David > >At 24/06/2009, you wrote: > >I return to my former suggestion: create a view which does the same thing as > >your sproc, and run that instead. Thanks to Access's filtering ability, you > >can easily scope this to the particular record(s) you want > >One proviso, which is sure you get you into trouble: if your subform(s) > >depend on a query that involves the parent table, lose the parent-table > >link. Else you are guaranteed to get into trouble. > > > >A. > >-- > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 23 21:14:09 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:14:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com><4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> Drew ...yes and no ...unlike Vonage it requires a pc AND internet access ...on both ends ...given those, its very cheap and as reliable as its dependents. ...Comcast gives me voip off my cable modem, no pc required on either end ...in Thailand they receive the calls on their landline or cell phones. ...pcs and internet access are still relatively expensive in Thailand so the Magic Jack is not the "magic" answer you would think William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Drew Wutka" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:31 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) > Yes. It's an IP phone 'jack', that plugs into your USB, allowing you to > plug your normal phone into it, making VoIP calls. It is a US based > system, so calls in the US are free, however, you can buy a Magic Jack, > send it to someone overseas (with Internet access), and they will then > have a US number. > > It's something like $40, which is the jack, and 1 year of service, after > that, it's $20 a year for service, probably the cheapest phone service > you can find. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Using the internet? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 23 June 2009 23:11 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Yes, it's just a physical device that allows you to use a normal phone. > More like Vonage. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. > > My bad.... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be > a > termination box between the "provider" and the "user" > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. > They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new > U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb > > ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power > outage > like after a hurricane (knock on wood) > > they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the > whole system is on huge battery back-up > > ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls > to > Thailand so I wasn't interested. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >> > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines > starts >> > coming down my street... as >> this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> lol... >> >> I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired > up >> and I went on with my >> work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection > went >> out with the power. And >> NOT at my house, it was out all over town. >> >> This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Drew: >>> >>> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > >>> coming >>> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >>> >>> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >>> >>> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >>> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not > working >>> a file based database across the network. >>> >>> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >>> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and > open >>> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system > I >>> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >>> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even > though >>> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >>> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >>> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can > search >>> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >>> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can > use >>> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >>> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >>> >>> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use > it >>> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would > take >>> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did > use >>> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >>> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >>> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just > fine >>> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence >>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >>> >>> Hi Drew: >>> >>> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run > an >>> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then > unbound >>> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >>> >>> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have > no >>> idea >>> how good they are. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >>> >>> Not Oracle? Yikes! >>> >>> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >>> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a > normal >>> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, > and >>> yikes..... >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the >>> person or entity >>> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or > II-VI >>> Business >>> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact >>> the sender >>> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether > electronic >>> or >>> hard copy. >>> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, > disclosure, >>> dissemination, >>> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >>> information >>> by persons >>> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 24 01:22:39 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:22:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Message-ID: Hi Shamil Thanks for straighten this out. The link to Strategy also provides a good opportunity to compare the syntax of many languages (some of those I've never touched). /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 23-06-2009 19:49 >>> Gustav, Charlotte, Susan, Arthur, I'd suppose that CallByName, which you have mentioned earlier in this thread, would be more appropriate for Arthur's original request: <<< Is there a way to pass the name of a function or procedure to another one? The need for this might occur when the given procedure must branch in various ways, and call a proc/function whose name depends upon the code-path, as it were. >>> As CallByName allows to pass object variables/refs as parameters, and Eval() doesn't allow to do that without some additional tricky VBA programming... BTW, what Arthur is trying to do is known as Abstraction Layer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction_layer as well as Strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern or Service Locator patterns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_locator_pattern which are in turn sub-cases of more generic (OO) programming principle called Inversion of Control: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inversion_of_Control -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Hi Charlotte Oh my, you are right: http://databaseadvisors.com/pipermail/accessd/2005-June/035493.html /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 23-06-2009 19:06 >>> You can pass it as a string. The problem is you can't call it as a string because the engine doesn't know it's supposed to be a function. I seem to remember a way to use Eval() to handle that, but I may be just losing my mind instead. ;-} Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function I don't know why you couldn't pass the name of the function as a string???? Susan H. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 02:25:34 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 00:25:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <604B81A9809D415FBD22F51028AFDA5B@advancedinput.com> <64A8D72603A046B0BA62445017D10794@creativesystemdesigns.com> <6DE7158799D941928E6476F093EDDF61@advancedinput.com> <23A88BEAA4BB4B31AC37771244CD10DC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Eric: It sounds very interesting... A lot of my coding relies heavily on controlled iframes (and JavaScript windows, CSS scripts and AJAX)... anything that stops the pages from refreshing too often. The background code is a real mixture of ASP, ASP.Net, PHP or ColdFusion and even a little JAVA... what ever is installed on the server... On my development system I have them all connected along with MySQL, MS SQL 2005 and Oracle 11i. Some call it a mess but I like to think it is as a MashUp... That is the beauty of the web... standardized protocols. ;-) I will definitely need to pick your brain at one time. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, The environment we had to work with had a little wrinkle in that they have their own system of tracking users across pages. They used iframes to frame around our ASPX pages which made it easy for us to debug and test within our own environment and then upload to their servers. The link I included in my email translates to their very own generated link which meant that I had to properly reference pages from behind the scenes. The user logins and the management of the users was simple and easy to implement. We didn't use any 3rd party controls or tools. Everything is pure ASP.NET (C#) with javascript for client-side interaction. Even the image handling (uploading and resizing on the fly) is done with C# googled from many places on the web. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Eric: Is most of the coding being managed through the page at: https://www.roxy.com/checkout/index.jsp?process=login It sounds like you have worked around and resolved the issues that I am working with. Thanks for the information I will have to get back to you later on it. Thanks a lot. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, You can make this "portable" by creating and encapsulating this in a user control. Once you get the plumbing in place you can instantiate this user control in any web page you want to use it in. I tend to simplify these user authentication modules and stay away from ASP.NET 2.0's authentication and membership model. I just recently completed a project for Roxy.com (http://www.roxy.com/designabikini) that incorporated these features. 1. User login is handled by a User table. 2. User registrations are handled by a Contestants table. 3. Email validation is achieved by sending the user an email link that contains a confirmation code that is essentially a GUID field. There was no need to do a time-out for validating email addresses but that would be easy to implement as well. Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Shamil and Eric: I am working on standardizing logging in to a web network. The item to complete is: 1. Login interface with username, password, captcha and add if new user. 2. Adding MS SQL server for validating passwords, allow no more than 8 incorrect attempts. 3. For new users, page for getting credentials. When completed final part of validation will be to send new applicant a security coded email with a two day time-out. 4. Validate new user acceptance email back and allowing limited access. 5. A system to monitor user logins and duration and pages viewed. This interface has to be so designed as it can float anywhere on a website page and perform and monitor all the above required tasks. I would like the code to be generic and flexible enough to be easy to insert in any site with a backend... So this module will need a full set of admin accessible profiles. It is not to say that it will be for anyone but a programmer but it should make my life easier. There are of course some issues (a lot) I am having and some of my fixes seem to be generating longer lists of errors rather the fixing anything. As mentioned before I will have to put this project aside as I have recently received a paying gig in MS Access... When I get another chance and have resolved some of the basic issues I will be asking some more point questions. MTIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Jim, What exactly is not working with your ASP.NET app? Eric -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 24 03:56:53 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:56:53 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Message-ID: Hi all Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a80b4e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film completely. For a very good reason a memorial site is up: http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 /gustav From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 07:56:44 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:56:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <17c80a4d0906240556h4b416312he836d2ba44e428fa@mail.gmail.com> We like MJ, but it does have issues: Some land line calls never connect. CS says "buy a new phone." :( If the computer's down, MJ's down, but we also have cells, so that's not too important. There's a bit of a lag time -- it seems easier to talk over one another than with a regular line, but I don't know... that might just be me. At first, we seemed to have a lot of bad connections, but that seemed to clear up magically and it rarely happens now. In our case, free MJ is a great alternative to an atleast $50 land line bill every month. Susan H. Magic Jack is not the "magic" answer you would think > William > > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 09:18:31 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:18:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com><4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: Yes, I understand. I'm a night owl, so I've seen my share of infomercials for that thing. One of their selling points is to give these to people over seas, which makes sense, IF they have a computer and internet connection. I'm not surprised about Thailand, our plant in Vietnam struggles behind a connection that isn't very much faster then a dialup modem! One thing I've always thought was funny about their commercials, is that a lot of people have DSL, and while it is possible to get DSL without a 'phone line' now, most people have the Phone/DSL package, so I wonder how many people turned that off only to find their internet connection gone, wondering why the magic jack stopped working! Lol Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) Drew ...yes and no ...unlike Vonage it requires a pc AND internet access ...on both ends ...given those, its very cheap and as reliable as its dependents. ...Comcast gives me voip off my cable modem, no pc required on either end ...in Thailand they receive the calls on their landline or cell phones. ...pcs and internet access are still relatively expensive in Thailand so the Magic Jack is not the "magic" answer you would think William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Drew Wutka" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:31 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) > Yes. It's an IP phone 'jack', that plugs into your USB, allowing you to > plug your normal phone into it, making VoIP calls. It is a US based > system, so calls in the US are free, however, you can buy a Magic Jack, > send it to someone overseas (with Internet access), and they will then > have a US number. > > It's something like $40, which is the jack, and 1 year of service, after > that, it's $20 a year for service, probably the cheapest phone service > you can find. > > Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 09:30:59 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:30:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com><20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I agree about the single point, John. But in .Net, you DO use the return statement or your function returns a default value instead of what you intended. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Just put it in your code where you are exiting a control. Or in the oncurrent if you want. Anywhere you want where your records becomes "dirty" and you want to ensure it is written away before doing anything else. You might have a text control called "My Commission" and on the OnExit you might put. Me.dirty = false Me!MyCommission = me!MyCommission * 10000 Me.dirty = false Stick it anywhere you want. The me. Refers to the form you are currently in. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: 23 June 2009 20:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp Max, Can you please expand on your suggestion. How do you use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away? David At 22/06/2009, you wrote: >David, just a stab in the dark, but it sounds as if it hasn't written >away the previous edit you made on the same machine. > >I often use me.dirty=false to force it to write edits away. > >Max > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David >Emerson >Sent: 22 June 2009 09:46 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp > >I have an SQL2005 BE and Access XP adp FE. > >The database is used to track stock for a number of locations. Each >stored procedure has a filter for location > >Most of the record sources are stored procedures that combine multiple >tables (the extra tables are for sorting the records - for example a >products table is joined to the inventory table so that the inventory >can be sorted by product order). > >I have the unique tables set where I can, and the > >I am getting a "write conflict - This record has been changed by >another user . " error when I try to change a record a second time >when it is displayed in a continuous form. > >I have tried Googling. The main solution is to include a timestamp >field in every table. This I have done with no joy. > >Any thoughts on what I should look for? Should I be looking at the SQL >security setting for roles? > > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >Wellington, New Zealand > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 09:32:29 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:32:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 09:35:33 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:35:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com><77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? That is what I was saying, Jim. I use GOTO to go to the exitpoint. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 23:01 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi John: In light of using GOTO and GOSUB functions RETURN seemed less onerous... Yes, one exit point is the optimum. I try to keep my classes or function small so there is never a reason for even considering more than one exit point. (Big complex procedures are hard to follow... so I try and keep it very simple... one thought one function.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > You can always just use the Return statement. THAT is bad programming style. You should ALWAYS exit through a common exit point so that cleanup code can execute. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Max: > > Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with > eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) > > http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger > > You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are > large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time > to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article > that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can > not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be > something to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > >> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per >> unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with >> PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. >> > > >> Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. >> * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS >> sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. >> * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no >> changes under Linux/Apache. >> >> PHP Drawbacks: >> >> * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something >> general-purpose, use something else. >> * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't >> have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. >> * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as >> it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. >> >> -Ken >> aseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 09:38:30 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:38:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Script out a build-database from within Access Message-ID: <29f585dd0906240738v7c5e83d7kf20a6dbade5fd247@mail.gmail.com> Is there a built-in method within Access to script out all the CREATE TABLE statments, and also the indexes and queries, etc. TIA, Arthur From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 09:36:34 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:36:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> Message-ID: They're both VoIP, but I've had zero luck with Skype connections and very good luck with Magic Jack. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. My bad.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because the whole system is on huge battery back-up ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls to Thailand so I wasn't interested. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts > > coming down my street... as > this will just be a moot point. ;-) > > lol... > > I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator fired up > and I went on with my > work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection went > out with the power. And > NOT at my house, it was out all over town. > > This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Drew: >> >> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines starts >> coming >> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other Terminal >> session, will work fine, because you are getting the screen, not working >> a file based database across the network. >> >> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your local >> system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, and open >> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email system I >> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even though >> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has automatic >> links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can search >> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get their >> contact info, if they are online, can remote into their machine, can use >> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >> >> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use it >> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would take >> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did use >> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is truly >> the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran just fine >> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Hi Drew: >> >> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to run an >> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then unbound >> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >> >> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have no >> idea >> how good they are. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >> >> Not Oracle? Yikes! >> >> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a normal >> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, and >> yikes..... >> >> Drew >> >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or >> hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >> information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient >> is prohibited. >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 09:42:43 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:42:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 09:41:18 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:41:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The same was true of FujiFilm's Velvia. Amazing stuff, although not quite as high-res as Kodachrome. But with digital photography outpacing slide film by miles, it was inevitable. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Hi all Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a 80b4e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film completely. For a very good reason a memorial site is up: http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 10:14:45 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:14:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <17c80a4d0906240556h4b416312he836d2ba44e428fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> <17c80a4d0906240556h4b416312he836d2ba44e428fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4242E5.5000403@colbyconsulting.com> We use Skype for computer to computer to allow Aunt Janice in Syracuse to see and talk to the kids every day, including video. The video isn't great but it is there and it is free. We are trying to get Aunt Katie hooked up next. It really is cool for young kids to be able to see who they are talking to, especially when they are far away and only get to see the person once in a long while. It keeps the picture in the head clear about who they are talking to, and who we are talking about in conversations. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: > We like MJ, but it does have issues: > > Some land line calls never connect. CS says "buy a new phone." :( > If the computer's down, MJ's down, but we also have cells, so that's not too > important. > There's a bit of a lag time -- it seems easier to talk over one another than > with a regular line, but I don't know... that might just be me. > At first, we seemed to have a lot of bad connections, but that seemed to > clear up magically and it rarely happens now. > > In our case, free MJ is a great alternative to an atleast $50 land line bill > every month. > > Susan H. > > > Magic Jack is not the "magic" answer you would think >> William >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 10:20:29 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:20:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com><20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A42443D.2050909@colbyconsulting.com> You can still use the return syntax, but it should be at the exit point. In .Net cleanup may be less critical as well, but in VBA the garbage collector is not robust and we all know that we should strive to cleanup pointers to recordsets, collections, classes and all of that stuff. If you very neatly create cleanup code down in the exit point and then just "Return" somewhere up in the code... I just make it a point to ALWAYS go through my exit point. Even if there is no cleanup code right now, there might be cleanup code added later down the road. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Charlotte Foust wrote: > I agree about the single point, John. But in .Net, you DO use the > return statement or your function returns a default value instead of > what you intended. > > Charlotte Foust From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 10:26:46 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:26:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and it needs to try 20 times unless successful: Dim obj as Phone Dim intTries as Long Dim blFailed as Boolean intTries=0 Set obj=New Phone StartOfCall: blFailed=True intTries=intTries+1 If intTries=21 then Goto Obj.Reset Obj.PickUpReceiver If Not Obj.HasDialTone then Goto StartOfCall Obj.DialNumber "972-555-5555" If Not Obj.RingingOtherLine then goto StartOfCall While obj.RingingOtherLine 'Some Time Event 'TimeEventOver Goto StartOfCall Wend If obj.OtherSideConnected then Obj.NegotiateConnection Else Goto StartOfCall End If If obj.NegotiatedConnection then Obj.SendData Else Goto StartOfCall End if If Obj.DataSentSuccessfully then blFailed=False else Goto StartOfCall End if EndOfCall: So in the example above, a specific steps of a process needed to be run in a particular order, and if any one step fails, it needs to start from the beginning. Which is almost the opposite of ErrorHandling. With an ErrorHandling, if a step fails, it jumps to a new process that either fixes the error and resumes the code, or does some clean up and ends the process. To do something like this without a goto statement would require a lot of extra logic statements to determine if the previous steps worked or not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Jun 24 10:31:04 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:31:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Data has been changed Message-ID: <4A4246B8.5060408@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Can someone explain to me what is causing this message??? I have a list box that is used to query a subform. If I selected the first item in the list and went in and edited the subform and then clicked on another item in the list I got the weird error message "Data has been changed....". Sometimes it would work fine for many clicks on the first item and editing but then up would pop the message. If I selected any other item in the list and edited and clicked on another item everything worked fine. I tried saves, dirty = false, and requerys nothing worked. Finally put Me.RePaint in the OnExit of the subform and eveything seems to be working fine. I have other list boxes and subforms and they all are working fine. Is this problem due to a damaged or corrupt form? Thanks From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 10:33:51 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:33:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com><77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A42475F.4090003@colbyconsulting.com> Charlotte, > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is no reason to use a GOTO. I have to say that while I agree in theory I disagree in practice. I find occasions where I want to test something at the beginning and just abort if found. Rather than add a new if/else level of indentation I just Goto ExitPoint. I don't find that a horrendous practice. I think the "ban on goto" comes from the spaghetti code that we all knew and loved back in the day. There is (almost) no excuse for line numbers, or labels and code to GoTo the label. It can ALWAYS be worked around, though there are very rare occasions where it actually makes cleaner code to do a GoTo Label. A funny story... Back in the early 80s I was a bench technician at Megatek Corp in Sorrento Valley (San Diego). My workstation was a Data General mini with 16 KWords of memory. Somewhere I found a Star Trek game written in Basic, but it wouldn't run because the interpreter and the game wouldn't all fit in memory at the same time. I printed the Basic source code out on the old yellow teletype roll paper, laid it on the floor and started studying it. In that version of Basic there were no functions or subroutines, so EVERYTHING was a GoTo. I started tracing the GoTos with an ink pen. I got a true appreciation for the term spaghetti code. I never did get the code to run. I don't write spaghetti code but I probably do use a GoTo once or twice a year, when it makes the code more understandable. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Charlotte Foust wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 10:33:47 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:33:47 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jun 24 11:01:11 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:01:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Data has been changed Message-ID: <380-22009632416111280@M2W004.mail2web.com> Been struggling with the problem myself for a couple months. Biggest problem is that it's not reliably reproducible - or we could track it down and kill it. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:31:04 -0700 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Data has been changed Hey All Can someone explain to me what is causing this message??? I have a list box that is used to query a subform. If I selected the first item in the list and went in and edited the subform and then clicked on another item in the list I got the weird error message "Data has been changed....". Sometimes it would work fine for many clicks on the first item and editing but then up would pop the message. If I selected any other item in the list and edited and clicked on another item everything worked fine. I tried saves, dirty = false, and requerys nothing worked. Finally put Me.RePaint in the OnExit of the subform and eveything seems to be working fine. I have other list boxes and subforms and they all are working fine. Is this problem due to a damaged or corrupt form? Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 11:16:18 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:16:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4A425152.6070906@colbyconsulting.com> And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 11:20:13 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:20:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working Message-ID: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am getting a runtime error that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does because I have used it before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and intellisense shows the property as there when I type it in. Any ideas why I would be getting this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 11:22:06 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:22:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a4252b2.0a1ad00a.5666.ffffa2c9@mx.google.com> Aha! So you're the guy are you? The one who keeps calling me over and over and over. Come here. I would like to talk really close to you.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 16:27 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and it needs to try 20 times unless successful: Dim obj as Phone Dim intTries as Long Dim blFailed as Boolean intTries=0 Set obj=New Phone StartOfCall: blFailed=True intTries=intTries+1 If intTries=21 then Goto Obj.Reset Obj.PickUpReceiver If Not Obj.HasDialTone then Goto StartOfCall Obj.DialNumber "972-555-5555" If Not Obj.RingingOtherLine then goto StartOfCall While obj.RingingOtherLine 'Some Time Event 'TimeEventOver Goto StartOfCall Wend If obj.OtherSideConnected then Obj.NegotiateConnection Else Goto StartOfCall End If If obj.NegotiatedConnection then Obj.SendData Else Goto StartOfCall End if If Obj.DataSentSuccessfully then blFailed=False else Goto StartOfCall End if EndOfCall: So in the example above, a specific steps of a process needed to be run in a particular order, and if any one step fails, it needs to start from the beginning. Which is almost the opposite of ErrorHandling. With an ErrorHandling, if a step fails, it jumps to a new process that either fixes the error and resumes the code, or does some clean up and ends the process. To do something like this without a goto statement would require a lot of extra logic statements to determine if the previous steps worked or not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 11:25:13 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:25:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a42536b.0702d00a.552b.ffffa122@mx.google.com> Purist! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 June 2009 15:32 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Jun 24 11:32:08 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:32:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Data has been changed In-Reply-To: <380-22009632416111280@M2W004.mail2web.com> References: <380-22009632416111280@M2W004.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4A425508.7090703@nanaimo.ark.com> Exactly if you could trap for it, and believe me I tried (maybe someone else has trapped it), then we could see what is specifically causing it. I don't like fixes (eg. Me.Repaint) with out knowing why and how it fixed it. Otherwise was it really a fix or luck???? rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: >Been struggling with the problem myself for a couple months. Biggest >problem is that it's not reliably reproducible - or we could track it down >and kill it. > >Rocky > > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:31:04 -0700 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Data has been changed > > >Hey All >Can someone explain to me what is causing this message??? >I have a list box that is used to query a subform. If I selected the >first item in the list and went in and edited the subform and then >clicked on another item in the list I got the weird error message "Data >has been changed....". Sometimes it would work fine for many clicks on >the first item and editing but then up would pop the message. If I >selected any other item in the list and edited and clicked on another >item everything worked fine. I tried saves, dirty = false, and requerys >nothing worked. Finally put Me.RePaint in the OnExit of the subform and >eveything seems to be working fine. I have other list boxes and >subforms and they all are working fine. Is this problem due to a damaged >or corrupt form? > >Thanks > > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 11:33:51 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:33:51 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a425572.0a1ad00a.1164.2bb3@mx.google.com> Can you locate the code where you have successfully used it previously? If so, copy it over and try again. If not, post the code. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 24 June 2009 17:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am getting a runtime error that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does because I have used it before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and intellisense shows the property as there when I type it in. Any ideas why I would be getting this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 11:51:47 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:51:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and it needs to try 20 times unless successful: Dim obj as Phone Dim intTries as Long Dim blFailed as Boolean intTries=0 Set obj=New Phone StartOfCall: blFailed=True intTries=intTries+1 If intTries=21 then Goto Obj.Reset Obj.PickUpReceiver If Not Obj.HasDialTone then Goto StartOfCall Obj.DialNumber "972-555-5555" If Not Obj.RingingOtherLine then goto StartOfCall While obj.RingingOtherLine 'Some Time Event 'TimeEventOver Goto StartOfCall Wend If obj.OtherSideConnected then Obj.NegotiateConnection Else Goto StartOfCall End If If obj.NegotiatedConnection then Obj.SendData Else Goto StartOfCall End if If Obj.DataSentSuccessfully then blFailed=False else Goto StartOfCall End if EndOfCall: So in the example above, a specific steps of a process needed to be run in a particular order, and if any one step fails, it needs to start from the beginning. Which is almost the opposite of ErrorHandling. With an ErrorHandling, if a step fails, it jumps to a new process that either fixes the error and resumes the code, or does some clean up and ends the process. To do something like this without a goto statement would require a lot of extra logic statements to determine if the previous steps worked or not. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Jun 24 11:56:35 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:56:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <33C60FE6194A44268CAB042FD8A07B6C@danwaters> John - I think it's supposed to be: dim rst as DAO.Recordset Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am getting a runtime error that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does because I have used it before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and intellisense shows the property as there when I type it in. Any ideas why I would be getting this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 11:59:45 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:59:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Message-ID: I've noticed that in VB.Net too, but I also notice that the syntax checker complains if you do that in functions. With respect to the links you provided, I wonder how many of those rabid "multi-pointers" have ever actually used structured programming techniques to design program flow? Probably few if any, which means they don't really know what they're arguing about. It boils down to "this is easier for me, so it must be right". Just because it the new wave, doesn't make it a wonderful idea. Bah, humbug!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there > is no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular > branch, the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed Jun 24 12:07:02 2009 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:07:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com><4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: Magic Jack requires a computer with Internet connection on the users end but can call any phone, land line, cell, what ever. I use it for all my long distance and it has saved a ton of money. I also get a local phone # so folks can call me. If my system is shut down it takes a voice mail and send an email saying the VM is waiting. I can also take the MJ usb dongle on trips and use it from any computer with a connection. Cool system. The international minutes are a bargain. Had a customer in Bermuda who was having some problems with one of our products. Using Techinline I was able to log onto her computer and talking over magic jack go through the issue and get it fixed. Probably talked for 20 minutes and the total cost was less than a dollar. Techinline charge was $2. How can you beat that? I am sold. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) Drew ...yes and no ...unlike Vonage it requires a pc AND internet access ...on both ends ...given those, its very cheap and as reliable as its dependents. ...Comcast gives me voip off my cable modem, no pc required on either end ...in Thailand they receive the calls on their landline or cell phones. ...pcs and internet access are still relatively expensive in Thailand so the Magic Jack is not the "magic" answer you would think William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Drew Wutka" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:31 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Magic Jack (OT) > Yes. It's an IP phone 'jack', that plugs into your USB, allowing you > to plug your normal phone into it, making VoIP calls. It is a US > based system, so calls in the US are free, however, you can buy a > Magic Jack, send it to someone overseas (with Internet access), and > they will then have a US number. > > It's something like $40, which is the jack, and 1 year of service, > after that, it's $20 a year for service, probably the cheapest phone > service you can find. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:24 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Using the internet? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 23 June 2009 23:11 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Yes, it's just a physical device that allows you to use a normal phone. > More like Vonage. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Thanks. Googled it and it sounds vry much like skype. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 23 June 2009 22:54 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Whooops, meant 'Magic Jack'. It's a USB IP Phone. > > My bad.... > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:48 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > What is a smart jack? I have just googled it and it just appears to > be a termination box between the "provider" and the "user" > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 23 June 2009 22:36 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > If you are just calling Lai's family, why not send them a 'smart jack'. > They'd have a US number then. (for $20 a year!) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > AT&T was out here in the boonies last week trying to sell me their new > U-Verse plan over my current Comcast 16Gb > > ...the most attractive sales point, to me, was that in a total power > outage like after a hurricane (knock on wood) > > they guarantee 20 hours of net access after the power fails because > the whole system is on huge battery back-up > > ...but they wanted $30 a month more and that didn't include free calls > to Thailand so I wasn't interested. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:56 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > >> > I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines > starts >> > coming down my street... as >> this will just be a moot point. ;-) >> >> lol... >> >> I lost power the other day for hours on end. While my generator >> fired > up >> and I went on with my >> work, I had to switch tasks to work local as my internet connection > went >> out with the power. And >> NOT at my house, it was out all over town. >> >> This is one argument AGAINST cloud computing (and storage). >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Hi Drew: >>> >>> I can hardly wait until fiber-opticale gigabyte internet lines >>> starts > >>> coming >>> down my street... as this will just be a moot point. ;-) >>> >>> Of course what ever works for you is just fine. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew >>> Wutka >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:34 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >>> >>> Yes, remoting in, such as with Remote Desktop, or some other >>> Terminal session, will work fine, because you are getting the >>> screen, not > working >>> a file based database across the network. >>> >>> However, sometimes you just want an application running on your >>> local system. For example, when I am home, I make a VPN connection, >>> and > open >>> Outlook, so I almost always have my work email (the only email >>> system > I >>> really use). I also have an application that used to be our request >>> system. It has a lot more features, so it is still in use (even > though >>> we now use a very slow web based 'request' system). It has >>> automatic links to various systems, and more importantly, it has a 'Phone List' >>> for the company. That phone list is pretty tricked out. I can > search >>> for someone in a blink of an eye, and from that search, can get >>> their contact info, if they are online, can remote into their >>> machine, can > use >>> remote computer management, links to their local drives, etc. Can >>> switch the phone list to list our online servers too. >>> >>> While I could remote in to use that app, I prefer to be able to use > it >>> straight through the VPN. When that app was .mdb based, it would > take >>> 20 to 30 times longer to do anything. Very sluggish. (And it did > use >>> ADO to access the .mdb). Now it hits a SQL server, and there is a >>> fraction of a delay over a VPN versus when I am local. That is >>> truly the only advantage I have found though, because this app ran >>> just > fine >>> locally over our local network when it used an .mdb. >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence >>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:17 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >>> >>> Hi Drew: >>> >>> I have found the best solution is to remote-in rather than try to >>> run > an >>> Access MDB through a VPN and if you are going to do the VPN then > unbound >>> with ADO-OLE works well for me. >>> >>> You can get a free express version of Oracle and forms app... I have > no >>> idea >>> how good they are. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew >>> Wutka >>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:41 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net >>> >>> Not Oracle? Yikes! >>> >>> As an ardent fan of Access (especially Access 97), I must admit that >>> knowledge in a server side database can come in real handy! On a > normal >>> network, an .mdb solution works fine, but try using it over a VPN, > and >>> yikes..... >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the >>> person or entity >>> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or > II-VI >>> Business >>> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact >>> the sender >>> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether > electronic >>> or >>> hard copy. >>> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, > disclosure, >>> dissemination, >>> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >>> information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient >>> is prohibited. >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in > this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which > it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its > entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in > this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which > it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its > entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in > this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which > it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its > entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in > this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which > it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, > please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its > entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 12:13:07 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:13:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <4a425572.0a1ad00a.1164.2bb3@mx.google.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4a425572.0a1ad00a.1164.2bb3@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A425EA3.70402@colbyconsulting.com> It turns out that you have to specify dbOpenDynaset. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Can you locate the code where you have successfully used it previously? If > so, copy it over and try again. > > If not, post the code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 June 2009 17:20 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working > > I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am > getting a runtime error > that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does > because I have used it > before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and > intellisense shows the > property as there when I type it in. > > Any ideas why I would be getting this? > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 12:13:52 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 10:13:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a42536b.0702d00a.552b.ffffa122@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42536b.0702d00a.552b.ffffa122@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Max. LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Purist! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 June 2009 15:32 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 12:29:41 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:29:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Write Conflict SQL and adp In-Reply-To: <4A42443D.2050909@colbyconsulting.com> References: <20090622084506.LDAR20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a3f49e5.1701d00a.0392.ffffb5ad@mx.google.com> <20090623190504.RYVU20420.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a414117.1701d00a.7348.737b@mx.google.com> <4A42443D.2050909@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <29f585dd0906241029m43bd9ffcia482c47b8ceb2c11@mail.gmail.com> I totally agree with this concept, JC. Every proc/function should have exactly one exit point, whether or not it includes a specific Return statement (or in VBA, returns a Funcname = xxx) statement. There should only be one such statement, no matter how complex the code; otherwise you make yourself crazy. Arthur From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 12:31:42 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:31:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <4A425EA3.70402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> <4a425572.0a1ad00a.1164.2bb3@mx.google.com> <4A425EA3.70402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a426302.1818d00a.623e.3040@mx.google.com> Who knew? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 24 June 2009 18:13 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working It turns out that you have to specify dbOpenDynaset. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Can you locate the code where you have successfully used it previously? If > so, copy it over and try again. > > If not, post the code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 June 2009 17:20 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working > > I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am > getting a runtime error > that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does > because I have used it > before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and > intellisense shows the > property as there when I type it in. > > Any ideas why I would be getting this? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 12:39:15 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:39:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <7645605EF1984C22B54D71537BEF25C9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A414171.2000803@colbyconsulting.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com><4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A4264C3.2010203@colbyconsulting.com> I don't use it but IIRC Skype has something similar. Skype can dial land lines, even overseas, the rates are cheap(er) and I do use that facility. I have a bluetooth headset that I use with my laptop (which has bluetooth built-in) so I do not need an external handset. I normally only use that for when I am on the road and connected however. My normal business phone is free long distance within the US. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Murphy wrote: > Magic Jack requires a computer with Internet connection on the users end but > can call any phone, land line, cell, what ever. I use it for all my long > distance and it has saved a ton of money. I also get a local phone # so > folks can call me. If my system is shut down it takes a voice mail and send > an email saying the VM is waiting. I can also take the MJ usb dongle on > trips and use it from any computer with a connection. Cool system. The > international minutes are a bargain. Had a customer in Bermuda who was > having some problems with one of our products. Using Techinline I was able > to log onto her computer and talking over magic jack go through the issue > and get it fixed. Probably talked for 20 minutes and the total cost was less > than a dollar. Techinline charge was $2. How can you beat that? > > I am sold. > > Doug From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jun 24 13:21:41 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:21:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5B5060B9327B492DB8AFAC8BE6806226@XPS> AbsolutePostion is not valid on forward only cursors or pass-throughs, even though the object model says it's so. Also, if the recordset is not populated yet, you'll get an error (don't remember which). A movelast fixes that. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am getting a runtime error that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does because I have used it before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and intellisense shows the property as there when I type it in. Any ideas why I would be getting this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 13:22:49 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:22:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Totally OT Hi Gustav and all: I used 64 ASA slide film for years. Though the quality of the pictures were stunning, seeing them, other than through a slide projector, was difficult and to now transfer them to high quality digital format is nearly impossible... I have never found a really good way to do this. If anyone out has had a similar situation and has arrived at a good solution (reasonably priced), I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Hi all Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a80b4 e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film completely. For a very good reason a memorial site is up: http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 13:25:48 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:25:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4CEC180FB399410D82AA73D571DD7BC0@creativesystemdesigns.com> Right on Charlotte... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is useful in Access because it's the only way to implement error handling. For any other use, it should be banned by law! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Only in his opinion and he is dead. In my opinion it works just fine. Is a useful tool and should be retained to avoid unnecessary convolution in code. cOdD was a purist but how many of use go to full granularity? Not many, I will be bound. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 21:28 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Max: Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use GOTO all the time, as in.. If then Do something Goto exithere Endif Code Code Exithere: Wind up and exit Errhandler: Etc Much easier to read then.. If then Do something Else Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. Endif Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be something to look forward to in any programming language. -----Original Message----- On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per > unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with > PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something > general-purpose, use something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't > have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as > it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 13:27:40 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:27:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <35E6E61DE67544A8B8B6258C8B6B3389@creativesystemdesigns.com> Yes you are right Charlotte, as we are now in the 21st century... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? That is what I was saying, Jim. I use GOTO to go to the exitpoint. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 23 June 2009 23:01 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi John: In light of using GOTO and GOSUB functions RETURN seemed less onerous... Yes, one exit point is the optimum. I try to keep my classes or function small so there is never a reason for even considering more than one exit point. (Big complex procedures are hard to follow... so I try and keep it very simple... one thought one function.) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > You can always just use the Return statement. THAT is bad programming style. You should ALWAYS exit through a common exit point so that cleanup code can execute. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Max: > > Edsger Dijkstra one of the fathers of programming, was credited with > eliminating the GOTO and GOSUB use as just bad programming. ;-) > > http://www.creativesystemdesigns.com/projects/relational.asp#edsger > > You can always just use the Return statement. If you functions are > large enough to require lots of conditional statement maybe it is time > to start splitting up your code blocks. There was an excellent article > that Shamil introduced on the subject of coding methods... but I can > not find the link again. (Age related I suspect) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:31 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I use GOTO all the time, as in.. > > If then > Do something > Goto exithere > Endif > Code > Code > Exithere: > Wind up and exit > Errhandler: > Etc > > Much easier to read then.. > > If then > Do something > Else > Do something else which is the main coding and stretched on and on. > Endif > > > Dont much care about standards, care more about what works for me... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: 23 June 2009 16:03 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > There are always nostalga buffs out there ... LOL > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:06 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I thought GOTO and GOSUB functions were a thing of the past. |-P > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Quite frankly I don't see the addition of a GOTO feature to be > something to look forward to in any programming language. > > -----Original Message----- > > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: > >> If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per >> unit of effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with >> PHP than with ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. >> > > >> Python or Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. >> * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS >> sytems, and MVC frameworks to choose from. >> * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no >> changes under Linux/Apache. >> >> PHP Drawbacks: >> >> * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something >> general-purpose, use something else. >> * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't >> have the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. >> * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as >> it is with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. >> >> -Ken >> aseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 13:31:32 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 11:31:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <4A4242E5.5000403@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> <17c80a4d0906240556h4b416312he836d2ba44e428fa@mail.gmail.com> <4A4242E5.5000403@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <51F7CFA68BEC43CBA5E9E53739665498@creativesystemdesigns.com> I concur John... We speak and view our wayward daughters on Skype and Skype video almost daily. MSN also has those features. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) We use Skype for computer to computer to allow Aunt Janice in Syracuse to see and talk to the kids every day, including video. The video isn't great but it is there and it is free. We are trying to get Aunt Katie hooked up next. It really is cool for young kids to be able to see who they are talking to, especially when they are far away and only get to see the person once in a long while. It keeps the picture in the head clear about who they are talking to, and who we are talking about in conversations. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: > We like MJ, but it does have issues: > > Some land line calls never connect. CS says "buy a new phone." :( > If the computer's down, MJ's down, but we also have cells, so that's not too > important. > There's a bit of a lag time -- it seems easier to talk over one another than > with a regular line, but I don't know... that might just be me. > At first, we seemed to have a lot of bad connections, but that seemed to > clear up magically and it rarely happens now. > > In our case, free MJ is a great alternative to an atleast $50 land line bill > every month. > > Susan H. > > > Magic Jack is not the "magic" answer you would think >> William >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 13:41:36 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:41:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A425152.6070906@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4A425152.6070906@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <004c01c9f4fb$698bad60$3ca30820$@spb.ru> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4185 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4185 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 13:41:36 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:41:36 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <004d01c9f4fb$6bd96df0$438c49d0$@spb.ru> Charlotte, But I did do structured programming driven by Dijkstra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger_W._Dijkstra ) works - do you believe me?! :) And nowadays I'm not using almost at all "one exit point" principle in C#/VB.NET programming - I can use "finally" or "using" programming language constructs, and .NET's garbage collector works well for me all the days of the week :) If not I can use GC.Collect(...) and other forced used memory collecting techniques... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I've noticed that in VB.Net too, but I also notice that the syntax checker complains if you do that in functions. With respect to the links you provided, I wonder how many of those rabid "multi-pointers" have ever actually used structured programming techniques to design program flow? Probably few if any, which means they don't really know what they're arguing about. It boils down to "this is easier for me, so it must be right". Just because it the new wave, doesn't make it a wonderful idea. Bah, humbug!! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there > is no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular > branch, the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4185 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4185 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 13:43:46 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:43:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <51F7CFA68BEC43CBA5E9E53739665498@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> <17c80a4d0906240556h4b416312he836d2ba44e428fa@mail.gmail.com> <4A4242E5.5000403@colbyconsulting.com> <51F7CFA68BEC43CBA5E9E53739665498@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A4273E2.3050909@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, In your case is is nice to be able to see who you are talking to so that YOU can remember who they are. At a certain age... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > I concur John... We speak and view our wayward daughters on Skype and Skype > video almost daily. MSN also has those features. > > Jim From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 13:54:19 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:54:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Why? Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it starts all over. A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. Ie: Do 'some condition is met: then Loop Loop Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and it needs to try 20 times unless successful: Dim obj as Phone Dim intTries as Long Dim blFailed as Boolean intTries=0 Set obj=New Phone StartOfCall: blFailed=True intTries=intTries+1 If intTries=21 then Goto The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 14:04:59 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:04:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <004d01c9f4fb$6bd96df0$438c49d0$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004d01c9f4fb$6bd96df0$438c49d0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: I use those constructs too, Shamil. But that isn't at all the same thing I'm talking about. Those provide decent garbage handling and Finally makes sure things happen whether or not you trigger an exception. I just find it annoying to have to look through code and make sure there's a return in each conditional branch, plus I like to be able to step through my code and know what's being returned by hovering my mouse over the variable. Different strokes, perhaps. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Charlotte, But I did do structured programming driven by Dijkstra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edsger_W._Dijkstra ) works - do you believe me?! :) And nowadays I'm not using almost at all "one exit point" principle in C#/VB.NET programming - I can use "finally" or "using" programming language constructs, and .NET's garbage collector works well for me all the days of the week :) If not I can use GC.Collect(...) and other forced used memory collecting techniques... -- Shamil From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 14:06:53 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:06:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: True, but why would you construct it that way? You're essentially describing a callback. And you CAN nest Do Loops, even in VBA. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Why? Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it starts all over. A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. Ie: Do 'some condition is met: then Loop Loop Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and it needs to try 20 times unless successful: Dim obj as Phone Dim intTries as Long Dim blFailed as Boolean intTries=0 Set obj=New Phone StartOfCall: blFailed=True intTries=intTries+1 If intTries=21 then Goto The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 14:11:09 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:11:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Message-ID: Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 14:15:15 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:15:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <62B6DAB0516445B9B087F2D5D38CBF5A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I am not sure but if my memory serves me right is is about the type of recordset you are using. Check your data type properties/qualifiers... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am getting a runtime error that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does because I have used it before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and intellisense shows the property as there when I type it in. Any ideas why I would be getting this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 14:24:02 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:24:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 14:25:44 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:25:44 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004d01c9f4fb$6bd96df0$438c49d0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <004e01c9f501$93c4f220$bb4ed660$@spb.ru> Hi Charlotte, <<< Different strokes, perhaps. >>> Yes, our "programming tastes and preferences" differ significantly in some parts AFAIS. That's fine. I do use mainly agile/TDD with unit testing etc. and I almost do not use debugging/tracing nowadays, and I do not have almost at all lengthy conditional branches as they are an "evil" - I'm getting them refactored using software design patterns... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I use those constructs too, Shamil. But that isn't at all the same thing I'm talking about. Those provide decent garbage handling and Finally makes sure things happen whether or not you trigger an exception. I just find it annoying to have to look through code and make sure there's a return in each conditional branch, plus I like to be able to step through my code and know what's being returned by hovering my mouse over the variable. Different strokes, perhaps. Charlotte Foust <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jun 24 14:26:48 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:26:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working In-Reply-To: <62B6DAB0516445B9B087F2D5D38CBF5A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A42523D.8000809@colbyconsulting.com> <62B6DAB0516445B9B087F2D5D38CBF5A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A427DF8.2000507@colbyconsulting.com> The problem is solved. I had to specify a recordset type in the open statement (dbDynamic). Then it all just worked. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > I am not sure but if my memory serves me right is is about the type of > recordset you are using. Check your data type properties/qualifiers... > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:20 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] AbsolutePosition not working > > I am trying to grab the absolutePosition property of a DAO recordset and am > getting a runtime error > that "this object does not support this property". I know that it does > because I have used it > before. The recordset is defines specifically as type dao.record, and > intellisense shows the > property as there when I type it in. > > Any ideas why I would be getting this? > From hkotsch at arcor.de Wed Jun 24 14:35:18 2009 From: hkotsch at arcor.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:35:18 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I had app. 10.000 slides (Kodachrome II with carton frame) mostly taken in the 60 ties and seventies in the US. I bought the Reflecta DigitDia 3600. Today they offer the DigitDia 5000. http://www.reflecta.de/Englisch/Seiten/Start.htm I paid including the SilverSoft software app. 700 Euros. The scanner works like a slide projector and is actually derived from one. You put in a rail or other magazine with 50 or 100 slides and let it work for itself. 50 slides with a 3600 dpi resolution take app. 2 hours. The scanned images (app. 45 MBytes) are transferred via USB or IEEE-1394 to your PC. After that the file is being compressed as jpeg of app. 4 MByte. Everything worked fine and looking the scanned slides with a beamer is as good as looking the original slides with a slide projector. Since you need this scanner only one time (you are not taking any slides anymore) the idea is to sell it afterwards in eBay. There is a big market for these scanners here in Germany. You could get a used scanner starting with 200 Euros. Since they are only used for a couple of month and the guaranty is 3 years there shouldn't be a problem with defects of the equipment. Even though my slides are 30 years old, the colors and overall quality is still perfect. That was Kodachrome II. I also had some Agfa slides but they all have changed colors to the blue over time. Hope that helps Helmut -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim Lawrence Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Juni 2009 20:23 An: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Totally OT Hi Gustav and all: I used 64 ASA slide film for years. Though the quality of the pictures were stunning, seeing them, other than through a slide projector, was difficult and to now transfer them to high quality digital format is nearly impossible... I have never found a really good way to do this. If anyone out has had a similar situation and has arrived at a good solution (reasonably priced), I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Hi all Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a80b4 e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film completely. For a very good reason a memorial site is up: http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 14:36:55 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:36:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 20:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 14:40:25 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:40:25 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> Hi Jim, <<< At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. >>> Was that IBM360/370 Macro Assembler or PDP-11's one or VAX? AFAIKR PDP-11 had a special machine command, which allowed to organize so called "co-routines": this machine command did put return address of the next command after the current one into stack and then did execute GOTO/JUMP to the address specified in the current command, and then co-routine used address on top of the stack to return back to the caller. Well, that was PDP-11 with Radix50 and all other tricks to have multi-tasking multi-user real time operating system running in 64KB? (Can't remember now for sure or was that 128KB or 256KB of RAM - and harddisk was 4+MB?)... Nowadays all the code optimization is done by compilers, which will inline small functions if possible etc. to produce very compact executable code... This is one of the reasons we can give-up so many development principles we have been using for years because the past development tools and overall development experience wasn't so advanced as nowadays... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From pedro at plex.nl Wed Jun 24 14:49:04 2009 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:49:04 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film References: Message-ID: <007301c9f504$d4935730$400aa8c0@qmotionfaa3ad9> Hello Gustav, Jim and others, although Kodachrome was a good film, i already changed to Velvia when this was introduced. When you see the quality of the digital images, it was certain that one of these days our 36mm film, would be removed from the market. I love digital photography and it changed my Photography life completly, in a positive way. Jim, i use a Nikon ls-2000 scanner for slides with silverfast software. It gives me a very good quality digital images from slides. Now a days this scanner can be bought relatively sheap second hand. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film > Totally OT > > Hi Gustav and all: > > I used 64 ASA slide film for years. Though the quality of the pictures > were > stunning, seeing them, other than through a slide projector, was difficult > and to now transfer them to high quality digital format is nearly > impossible... I have never found a really good way to do this. > > If anyone out has had a similar situation and has arrived at a good > solution > (reasonably priced), I would be very interested. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film > > Hi all > Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... > > This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was > one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. > > > http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a80b4 > e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases > > I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the > first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed > film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film > completely. > > For a very good reason a memorial site is up: > > http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 14:57:57 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:57:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <005001c9f506$138f5820$3aae0860$@spb.ru> <<< ...I think I have covered the highlights... >>> Hi Jim, I suppose that: 5. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) 6. Windows Workflow foundation (WF) 7. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) ... Are "must have" additions to your list if you just wanted to stay within web development area. I do not even mention advanced multi-threading development experience, which is also becoming demanded by the market, emerging grid/cloud computing etc. That's a huge "technology iceberg/stack" we have to find the ways to master... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Shamil: I tend to agree with you that .Net is the way to go as now I have some many different technologies to support it is hard to master any. What I need is a steady gig with .Net... say 6 months and away I go. Right now a client is giving me a few weeks MS Access with an ongoing support contract... I have even suggested an ASP.Net web based solution but they didn't bite. I personally believe that web based programming is the way of the present and future but it takes extensive knowledge of a number of disciplines. Unless you are working on a team effort, a successful programmer/contractor has to be competent with: 1. Computer Graphics.. Photoshop and Illustrator along with excellent design understanding (Even Flash and now Silver Light). 2. A good understanding of FE layout and presentation; HTML, CSS and JavaScript. 3. A good knowledge of browser data flow, ASP.Net, AJAX, SOAP, XML... etc. 4. Then there is BE technology, SQL (MS, Oracle, MySQL), Cloud technology, Hosting and various other mash-ups. I am sure you guys can add plenty to that list but I think I have covered the highlights. ...and people wonder why a good custom built commercial web site cost 100K and if the site is to remain fresh and current that 100K is only about 20% of what the long-term support fees will come to. I know of many successful commercial sites (companies which do most of the work through the web) that have a team of 10 or more techs working full-time. If I was not so lazy (translation; 25 years younger) I would be trying to start up another company. To make a short story long... I agree with you that ASP.Net is the technology to learn. Jim PS The ASP.Net problem will have to wait until the paying gig is finished... and oh yes, the inside house look like a bomb exploded... I am in the middle of Reno hell as well. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Jim, I doubt that VBA programmers will go easier with PHP (and mySQL) than with ASP.NET and MS SQL: I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always did get stopped me. In my opinion ASP.NET + MS SQL would be more natural for VBA developers to start with especially if they will use VB.NET. Making ASP.NET SOAP web service is an easy game - you can see one like that in our northwind.codeplex.com project samples. About ASP.NET community - yes, I have also got experience that it isn't that helpful for newbies... <<< So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) >>> What is the problem with that you have there? Do you mean using ASP.NET Forms standard authentication and related ASP.NET Login control? If yes, we can talk about that and find solution for your issue on dba-VB. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 15:11:37 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:11:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks very much for that Helmut. I will check that out. Right now I have a whole cabinet filled with carousels and boxes of slides... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Helmut Kotsch Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Jim, I had app. 10.000 slides (Kodachrome II with carton frame) mostly taken in the 60 ties and seventies in the US. I bought the Reflecta DigitDia 3600. Today they offer the DigitDia 5000. http://www.reflecta.de/Englisch/Seiten/Start.htm I paid including the SilverSoft software app. 700 Euros. The scanner works like a slide projector and is actually derived from one. You put in a rail or other magazine with 50 or 100 slides and let it work for itself. 50 slides with a 3600 dpi resolution take app. 2 hours. The scanned images (app. 45 MBytes) are transferred via USB or IEEE-1394 to your PC. After that the file is being compressed as jpeg of app. 4 MByte. Everything worked fine and looking the scanned slides with a beamer is as good as looking the original slides with a slide projector. Since you need this scanner only one time (you are not taking any slides anymore) the idea is to sell it afterwards in eBay. There is a big market for these scanners here in Germany. You could get a used scanner starting with 200 Euros. Since they are only used for a couple of month and the guaranty is 3 years there shouldn't be a problem with defects of the equipment. Even though my slides are 30 years old, the colors and overall quality is still perfect. That was Kodachrome II. I also had some Agfa slides but they all have changed colors to the blue over time. Hope that helps Helmut -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Jim Lawrence Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. Juni 2009 20:23 An: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Totally OT Hi Gustav and all: I used 64 ASA slide film for years. Though the quality of the pictures were stunning, seeing them, other than through a slide projector, was difficult and to now transfer them to high quality digital format is nearly impossible... I have never found a really good way to do this. If anyone out has had a similar situation and has arrived at a good solution (reasonably priced), I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Hi all Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a80b4 e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film completely. For a very good reason a memorial site is up: http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 15:31:23 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:31:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Max: What you have represented there is a solution to situation that could not be handled any other way... Something like the use of a GOTO statement for handling errors, in an Access function. As long as each Push is matched with a Pop no problem and the method is kept clean and simple. On the other hand if anything goes wrong and for some reason processes, like a programmer makes a coding error (not something that we would ever have to worry about), there can be some serious repercussions. If you ever remember or run across that tool location or link, I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 20:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 15:41:02 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:41:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> No, there are no repercussions at all. It is just records being written to a table and removed from a table. Easy peasy. It does not write anything to memory etc. It is purely a record of the path through the program. You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned it. Currently listening to: http://www.tropicalglen.com/ thanks to Alan Lawhon Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 21:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max: What you have represented there is a solution to situation that could not be handled any other way... Something like the use of a GOTO statement for handling errors, in an Access function. As long as each Push is matched with a Pop no problem and the method is kept clean and simple. On the other hand if anything goes wrong and for some reason processes, like a programmer makes a coding error (not something that we would ever have to worry about), there can be some serious repercussions. If you ever remember or run across that tool location or link, I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 20:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 15:50:35 2009 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:50:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 15:56:46 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:56:46 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> Spot On, Doug - Thanks Memory ain't wot it used to be..senior moment(s) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: 24 June 2009 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 16:01:13 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:01:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <5E93BA40ABAF43BAB2CC09A6E00D3425@creativesystemdesigns.com> I worked with a PDP-11 70 for 3 years... It was primitive by todays standards as you would even have to key-in the boot-strap sequence, when the computer rebooted, using the dip switches on the front panel, (which it would happen freguently due to some run away processes in the Cad programs we were using). In those days every byte counted. We would spend days just figuring out how to best ultilize the Common Block in the Fortran applications... whether a short, long or floating variables was to be used. (Do you remember packing 3 byte in 2 bytes, so variables could take up less space?) There were a few times when the system would crash because it would actually run out of memory. But it did teach a programmer, the proper methods, with good documentation and that every byte counted... the tighter the code the better. With so much room available so many programs and applications can be just be hacked and spagetti-coded together and let the processor speed handle dumb bottle necks... (A single user OS with 50 million lines of code originated from multi-user and multi-tasking OSs that were 10K) I now think this is all turning around as we now have so much data that unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Jim, <<< At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. >>> Was that IBM360/370 Macro Assembler or PDP-11's one or VAX? AFAIKR PDP-11 had a special machine command, which allowed to organize so called "co-routines": this machine command did put return address of the next command after the current one into stack and then did execute GOTO/JUMP to the address specified in the current command, and then co-routine used address on top of the stack to return back to the caller. Well, that was PDP-11 with Radix50 and all other tricks to have multi-tasking multi-user real time operating system running in 64KB? (Can't remember now for sure or was that 128KB or 256KB of RAM - and harddisk was 4+MB?)... Nowadays all the code optimization is done by compilers, which will inline small functions if possible etc. to produce very compact executable code... This is one of the reasons we can give-up so many development principles we have been using for years because the past development tools and overall development experience wasn't so advanced as nowadays... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 16:09:14 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:09:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film In-Reply-To: <007301c9f504$d4935730$400aa8c0@qmotionfaa3ad9> References: <007301c9f504$d4935730$400aa8c0@qmotionfaa3ad9> Message-ID: Thanks Pedro; I have never used 'Velvia' film... Cheap sounds good and I should start managing the slides sooner that later as they may start to dis-colour or perish in some other way. Right now they reside in a cool and light-free location... Having a digital camera is never having to buy yet another roll of film... or judiciously take just one or maybe two shots... now take 50 shots get and just the right picture. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Pedro Janssen Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film Hello Gustav, Jim and others, although Kodachrome was a good film, i already changed to Velvia when this was introduced. When you see the quality of the digital images, it was certain that one of these days our 36mm film, would be removed from the market. I love digital photography and it changed my Photography life completly, in a positive way. Jim, i use a Nikon ls-2000 scanner for slides with silverfast software. It gives me a very good quality digital images from slides. Now a days this scanner can be bought relatively sheap second hand. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film > Totally OT > > Hi Gustav and all: > > I used 64 ASA slide film for years. Though the quality of the pictures > were > stunning, seeing them, other than through a slide projector, was difficult > and to now transfer them to high quality digital format is nearly > impossible... I have never found a really good way to do this. > > If anyone out has had a similar situation and has arrived at a good > solution > (reasonably priced), I would be very interested. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Very OT: Kodak will retire KODACHROME Film > > Hi all > Neither is this Access related in any way nor is it Friday but ... > > This had to come given the evolution of digital photography. Still, it was > one of those announcements you didn't wish to experience. > > > http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2709&gpcid=0900688a80b4 > e692&pq-locale=en_US&CID=pressreleases > > I still remember the astonishment when I received from the laboratory the > first roll I shot and viewed the amazing colour quality of this low-speed > film. That is many years ago and in the meantime I've left analogue film > completely. > > For a very good reason a memorial site is up: > > http://homepage.1000words.kodak.com/default.asp?item=2388083 > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 16:07:14 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:07:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Are you talking about MZ-Tools? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK No, there are no repercussions at all. It is just records being written to a table and removed from a table. Easy peasy. It does not write anything to memory etc. It is purely a record of the path through the program. You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned it. Currently listening to: http://www.tropicalglen.com/ thanks to Alan Lawhon Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 21:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max: What you have represented there is a solution to situation that could not be handled any other way... Something like the use of a GOTO statement for handling errors, in an Access function. As long as each Push is matched with a Pop no problem and the method is kept clean and simple. On the other hand if anything goes wrong and for some reason processes, like a programmer makes a coding error (not something that we would ever have to worry about), there can be some serious repercussions. If you ever remember or run across that tool location or link, I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 20:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 16:11:22 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 01:11:22 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 16:12:45 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:12:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <005001c9f506$138f5820$3aae0860$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> <005001c9f506$138f5820$3aae0860$@spb.ru> Message-ID: Oh no more to learn... why did I ever get into the computer business. ;-) The multi-threaded programming sounds very interesting, though. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? <<< ...I think I have covered the highlights... >>> Hi Jim, I suppose that: 5. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) 6. Windows Workflow foundation (WF) 7. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) ... Are "must have" additions to your list if you just wanted to stay within web development area. I do not even mention advanced multi-threading development experience, which is also becoming demanded by the market, emerging grid/cloud computing etc. That's a huge "technology iceberg/stack" we have to find the ways to master... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Shamil: I tend to agree with you that .Net is the way to go as now I have some many different technologies to support it is hard to master any. What I need is a steady gig with .Net... say 6 months and away I go. Right now a client is giving me a few weeks MS Access with an ongoing support contract... I have even suggested an ASP.Net web based solution but they didn't bite. I personally believe that web based programming is the way of the present and future but it takes extensive knowledge of a number of disciplines. Unless you are working on a team effort, a successful programmer/contractor has to be competent with: 1. Computer Graphics.. Photoshop and Illustrator along with excellent design understanding (Even Flash and now Silver Light). 2. A good understanding of FE layout and presentation; HTML, CSS and JavaScript. 3. A good knowledge of browser data flow, ASP.Net, AJAX, SOAP, XML... etc. 4. Then there is BE technology, SQL (MS, Oracle, MySQL), Cloud technology, Hosting and various other mash-ups. I am sure you guys can add plenty to that list but I think I have covered the highlights. ...and people wonder why a good custom built commercial web site cost 100K and if the site is to remain fresh and current that 100K is only about 20% of what the long-term support fees will come to. I know of many successful commercial sites (companies which do most of the work through the web) that have a team of 10 or more techs working full-time. If I was not so lazy (translation; 25 years younger) I would be trying to start up another company. To make a short story long... I agree with you that ASP.Net is the technology to learn. Jim PS The ASP.Net problem will have to wait until the paying gig is finished... and oh yes, the inside house look like a bomb exploded... I am in the middle of Reno hell as well. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Jim, I doubt that VBA programmers will go easier with PHP (and mySQL) than with ASP.NET and MS SQL: I personally tried to study PHP (and I have had rather good C/C++ programming experience) but I must say I didn't get that far nor with PHP nor with mySQL - something always did get stopped me. In my opinion ASP.NET + MS SQL would be more natural for VBA developers to start with especially if they will use VB.NET. Making ASP.NET SOAP web service is an easy game - you can see one like that in our northwind.codeplex.com project samples. About ASP.NET community - yes, I have also got experience that it isn't that helpful for newbies... <<< So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) >>> What is the problem with that you have there? Do you mean using ASP.NET Forms standard authentication and related ASP.NET Login control? If yes, we can talk about that and find solution for your issue on dba-VB. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 10:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur: A very good reference site to get you started... and you do not have to be a Class expert... to use the code... at least not right away. Fortunately for me when ever I dabble in the language my son-in-law, who is a true guru in the language, can resolve a problem which may take two today's to resolve on my own, with one or two comments. (He works with the language 60 hours a week and has been at it for years.) ASP.Net is not anymore difficult, it is just that there is very few passionate mentors out there, willing to spend their time freely, answering the 'dumb' questions of a newbie, (I need another son-in-law mastering and working in ASP.Net.) not like PHP which seems to have a very active community willing to help. (JAVA is another such community...) As ASP.Net matures I am sure a similar active community will evolve... but it is not there yet. Microsoft has been doing its best to spread the word with such cooperative sites as CodePlex, an open source community but it has limited resources and is in business to make money. Steering programmers into a brave new world is nearly as difficult as getting rid of the ridiculous qwerty keyboard. So here I sit wondering why a simple password and new member sign-up module, in ASP.Net is not working as planned... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Anyone interested in following Ken's lead here is invited to visit www.artfulsoftware.com and investigate our chapters on PHP and TheUsual(). Arthur On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > If you are interested in Web programming, I would suggest PHP. Per unit of > effort, I think most VBA programmers would get further with PHP than with > ASPX, especially if you are starting out from scratch. > > I'm developing a SOAP-based web service that will be used by Access clients > running the COM-based SOAP Library 3.0. The server backend is being written > in PHP, currently running under a local IIS7 development server. It is > stupid-simple to implement a SOAP server using PHP's built-in library. It > was lots harder getting the VBA side to work than the PHP side. (The real > challenge was getting a WSDL specification that both sides could agree on, > but that is a separate topic.) > > PHP Plusses: > > * Of all open-source languages, PHP is the closest to VBA in it's feel and > philosophy -- a pragmatic language that lets you get results fast > * PHP 5.2+ works very well with Windows -- it installs with little fuss > under IIS7, and has native drivers for SQL Server > * The upcoming release, 5.3, offers some very nice language enhancements, > like namespaces, late static binding, and closures. It even adds goto! > These > features bring it up to rough parity with scripting languages like Python > or > Ruby, and make it a much more expressive language than VBA. > * There is an enormous ecosystem of open-source libraries, IDEs, CMS > sytems, > and MVC frameworks to choose from. > * Projects developed under Windows/IIS should work with little or no > changes > under Linux/Apache. > > PHP Drawbacks: > > * PHP is a web-specific language. If you want something general-purpose, > use > something else. > * PHP's libraries are extensive and rapidly improving, but it doesn't have > the monolithic library integration that .NET enjoys with the CLR. > * Comprehensive, transparent support for Unicode is still lacking, as it is > with most scripting languages. PHP 6 will rectify this. > > -Ken > aseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4179 (20090622) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 16:14:25 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:14:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes... thanks... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 16:19:13 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:19:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <12CC8DADFA82461DB4647AEB9E2025F3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hey Max you have, like the rest of us, a 16K memory module with a fast parallel processor. You have to forget something to remember something else. Right now our computers definitely have more memory than we do and as soon as they can parallel process as fast as we can... we are in serious trouble. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Spot On, Doug - Thanks Memory ain't wot it used to be..senior moment(s) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: 24 June 2009 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 16:24:53 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:24:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a4299a9.0a04d00a.34a8.ffffdd73@mx.google.com> Yes, I was close though... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 June 2009 22:07 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Are you talking about MZ-Tools? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK No, there are no repercussions at all. It is just records being written to a table and removed from a table. Easy peasy. It does not write anything to memory etc. It is purely a record of the path through the program. You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned it. Currently listening to: http://www.tropicalglen.com/ thanks to Alan Lawhon Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 21:31 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max: What you have represented there is a solution to situation that could not be handled any other way... Something like the use of a GOTO statement for handling errors, in an Access function. As long as each Push is matched with a Pop no problem and the method is kept clean and simple. On the other hand if anything goes wrong and for some reason processes, like a programmer makes a coding error (not something that we would ever have to worry about), there can be some serious repercussions. If you ever remember or run across that tool location or link, I would be very interested. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 20:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 16:26:03 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:26:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <12CC8DADFA82461DB4647AEB9E2025F3@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> <12CC8DADFA82461DB4647AEB9E2025F3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a4299ef.0a1ad00a.269f.7998@mx.google.com> I was in trouble when I ran Elisa on my Commodore PET and thought I was talking to Chuck Peddle (Think that was his name) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 22:19 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hey Max you have, like the rest of us, a 16K memory module with a fast parallel processor. You have to forget something to remember something else. Right now our computers definitely have more memory than we do and as soon as they can parallel process as fast as we can... we are in serious trouble. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Spot On, Doug - Thanks Memory ain't wot it used to be..senior moment(s) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: 24 June 2009 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 16:29:52 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:29:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com> Shamil, Thanks for that. I don't suppose you just happen to have any code which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it, do you? I would love to have a line in each that says Call ShamilsFunction("Enter") Code Call ShamilsFunction("Leave") And in both cases ShamilsFunction KNOWS where it was called from..without having to expressly state the name. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 22:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 16:46:40 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:46:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. The example I initially gave, could have been put into a function, that was called in a loop, but to handle the 'skip everything if this or that didn't happen', you would either need to put a lot more logical conditions in, or put in an Exit function, which would mean you are leaving a function at multiple points....OR, a Goto EndOfFunction where you would go to the end of the function. OR you can put a starting point, and if all the conditions run through, it's fine, if any one of them fail, it can return it to the start. When you exit a loop (due to a condition), the code LEAVES the Do Loop. Yes, you could nest one loop inside another, but it just simply does not give you the abilities that a Goto statement has. If you wanted to be able to return to three unique steps in a process, nesting the loops would be crazy. The point is, Goto's can be a big factor in 'spaghetti' code, but they can also make your code cleaner, and more logical. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? True, but why would you construct it that way? You're essentially describing a callback. And you CAN nest Do Loops, even in VBA. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Why? Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it starts all over. A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. Ie: Do 'some condition is met: then Loop Loop Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. Charlotte The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jun 24 16:47:11 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:47:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , Message-ID: <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> What's wrong with Do ... initial code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here... End If End if Loop Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier to follow that a flat sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. -- Stuart On 24 Jun 2009 at 13:54, Drew Wutka wrote: > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Wed Jun 24 16:47:46 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:47:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Message-ID: Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 16:52:41 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:52:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. The example I initially gave, could have been put into a function, that was called in a loop, but to handle the 'skip everything if this or that didn't happen', you would either need to put a lot more logical conditions in, or put in an Exit function, which would mean you are leaving a function at multiple points....OR, a Goto EndOfFunction where you would go to the end of the function. OR you can put a starting point, and if all the conditions run through, it's fine, if any one of them fail, it can return it to the start. When you exit a loop (due to a condition), the code LEAVES the Do Loop. Yes, you could nest one loop inside another, but it just simply does not give you the abilities that a Goto statement has. If you wanted to be able to return to three unique steps in a process, nesting the loops would be crazy. The point is, Goto's can be a big factor in 'spaghetti' code, but they can also make your code cleaner, and more logical. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? True, but why would you construct it that way? You're essentially describing a callback. And you CAN nest Do Loops, even in VBA. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Why? Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it starts all over. A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. Ie: Do 'some condition is met: then Loop Loop Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. Charlotte The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 16:53:11 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:53:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a4299ef.0a1ad00a.269f.7998@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> <12CC8DADFA82461DB4647AEB9E2025F3@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a4299ef.0a1ad00a.269f.7998@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <56BAF2CC9BA44C9DB5D535DAB8223647@creativesystemdesigns.com> Ha ha ha ... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK I was in trouble when I ran Elisa on my Commodore PET and thought I was talking to Chuck Peddle (Think that was his name) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 22:19 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hey Max you have, like the rest of us, a 16K memory module with a fast parallel processor. You have to forget something to remember something else. Right now our computers definitely have more memory than we do and as soon as they can parallel process as fast as we can... we are in serious trouble. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Spot On, Doug - Thanks Memory ain't wot it used to be..senior moment(s) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: 24 June 2009 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 16:56:01 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:56:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> I am with you Gustav, but don't let Charlotte see this posting...... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 24 June 2009 22:48 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 16:58:51 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:58:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:02:42 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:02:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a42a285.1c07d00a.4c63.10c0@mx.google.com> She wont Drew...she is like Susan...Trust me..just give up....they wear you down... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:59 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 17:04:23 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:04:23 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <5E93BA40ABAF43BAB2CC09A6E00D3425@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> <5E93BA40ABAF43BAB2CC09A6E00D3425@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <005301c9f517$bdc50b30$394f2190$@spb.ru> "Packing 3 bytes in 2 bytes" - that was Radix50 - 50 based notation system: I do remember it very well, I used to program custom handling or RSX-11M library files, which used Radix50 to pack 6 chars of files' and functions' names into four bytes etc... RSX-11M was compiled from sources for a certain target equipment, and the source code was very compact but well documented and it wasn't an issue to "hack" the OS core that days - I have had to do such hacking one time of the OS core to implement inter-task communication... <<< That unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. >>> What happens nowadays AFAIS in software development is that more and more experienced developers do experience, do witness and do follow "self-organizing coding style" - that comes from works (at least for me) of "Gang of Four" on Software Design Patterns, of Kent Back and Ward Cunningham on XP, Martin Fawler on refactoring and from Chaos Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory): human brain by definition can't manage the complexity of the multi-threaded application systems running on multi-core computers we will have to program in the near future, and it's well known from the works of Fred Brooks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month ) that "adding more brains to solve a tough task" could only worsen the situation and delay the task solution sometimes very significantly... ..the answer to this challenge of software development becoming overly complex is not only to use modern advanced development tools as e.g. VS2008 is but also "give-up old habits and principles" and master and use the new ones, which are often counter-intuitive for many experienced developers (as I am): instead of trying to "design well in advance" we'd better "follow the chaos"/"rely on chaos" - I mean we should just "meet and solve the challenges of today and leave tomorrow for tomorrow" - that's what agile and lean development are for (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_software_development ) - of course agile/lean do use very reasonable methodology and tools "to bind/manage the chaos" - those methodology and tools has grown from rich development experiences of agile/lean development "apostles"... ... I was rather skeptical on "artificial intelligence" in the past but what happens today is looking like "singularity"( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ) may come true in not that far future... Sorry for my overgeneralization of this thread topic. Time to sleep here. Have a good afternoon/evening there. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I worked with a PDP-11 70 for 3 years... It was primitive by todays standards as you would even have to key-in the boot-strap sequence, when the computer rebooted, using the dip switches on the front panel, (which it would happen freguently due to some run away processes in the Cad programs we were using). In those days every byte counted. We would spend days just figuring out how to best ultilize the Common Block in the Fortran applications... whether a short, long or floating variables was to be used. (Do you remember packing 3 byte in 2 bytes, so variables could take up less space?) There were a few times when the system would crash because it would actually run out of memory. But it did teach a programmer, the proper methods, with good documentation and that every byte counted... the tighter the code the better. With so much room available so many programs and applications can be just be hacked and spagetti-coded together and let the processor speed handle dumb bottle necks... (A single user OS with 50 million lines of code originated from multi-user and multi-tasking OSs that were 10K) I now think this is all turning around as we now have so much data that unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Jim, <<< At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. >>> Was that IBM360/370 Macro Assembler or PDP-11's one or VAX? AFAIKR PDP-11 had a special machine command, which allowed to organize so called "co-routines": this machine command did put return address of the next command after the current one into stack and then did execute GOTO/JUMP to the address specified in the current command, and then co-routine used address on top of the stack to return back to the caller. Well, that was PDP-11 with Radix50 and all other tricks to have multi-tasking multi-user real time operating system running in 64KB? (Can't remember now for sure or was that 128KB or 256KB of RAM - and harddisk was 4+MB?)... Nowadays all the code optimization is done by compilers, which will inline small functions if possible etc. to produce very compact executable code... This is one of the reasons we can give-up so many development principles we have been using for years because the past development tools and overall development experience wasn't so advanced as nowadays... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 17:06:23 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:06:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com><000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru><2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com><005001c9f506$138f5820$3aae0860$@spb.ru> Message-ID: It is! You can multithread in VB 6, though it's compartmented (sorry, long day, I might have the terminology wrong). It will run two distinct thread ID's, and the processes will run completely separate. (One can error out, and stop, and the others will keep going). One funny thing I noticed back when I played around with that, is that in testing, I ran a database dump, where my routine was dumping dummy data into a table. Running against a 97 .mdb, it would eventually crash, due to a writing clash (because since the code was running in separate threads, the OS, not the program, was handling which process got to do what first..., so two 'writes' at the exact same time could clash), and I would end up with a corrupted database. Didn't have that problem with a 2000 database, left it running until it filled the database, never crashed. Who'da thunk that a 2000 mdb would be more stable then a 97 mdb in any aspect! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Oh no more to learn... why did I ever get into the computer business. ;-) The multi-threaded programming sounds very interesting, though. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? <<< ...I think I have covered the highlights... >>> Hi Jim, I suppose that: 5. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) 6. Windows Workflow foundation (WF) 7. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) ... Are "must have" additions to your list if you just wanted to stay within web development area. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:07:01 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:07:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <56BAF2CC9BA44C9DB5D535DAB8223647@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> <12CC8DADFA82461DB4647AEB9E2025F3@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a4299ef.0a1ad00a.269f.7998@mx.google.com> <56BAF2CC9BA44C9DB5D535DAB8223647@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a42a38a.0a1ad00a.269f.ffff848a@mx.google.com> ..bet that bought back memories, eh? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 22:53 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Ha ha ha ... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK I was in trouble when I ran Elisa on my Commodore PET and thought I was talking to Chuck Peddle (Think that was his name) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 22:19 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hey Max you have, like the rest of us, a 16K memory module with a fast parallel processor. You have to forget something to remember something else. Right now our computers definitely have more memory than we do and as soon as they can parallel process as fast as we can... we are in serious trouble. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Spot On, Doug - Thanks Memory ain't wot it used to be..senior moment(s) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: 24 June 2009 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:09:01 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:09:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <005301c9f517$bdc50b30$394f2190$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> <5E93BA40ABAF43BAB2CC09A6E00D3425@creativesystemdesigns.com> <005301c9f517$bdc50b30$394f2190$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4a42a402.1c07d00a.02c4.283e@mx.google.com> Shamil, Do you remember back when....in the days where we had to POKE values into memory locations and the PEEK to recover them. Writing whole programs in pseudo code using tokens....those were the days my friend... Max Listening to Roy Orbson, Sweet Dreams... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 23:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? "Packing 3 bytes in 2 bytes" - that was Radix50 - 50 based notation system: I do remember it very well, I used to program custom handling or RSX-11M library files, which used Radix50 to pack 6 chars of files' and functions' names into four bytes etc... RSX-11M was compiled from sources for a certain target equipment, and the source code was very compact but well documented and it wasn't an issue to "hack" the OS core that days - I have had to do such hacking one time of the OS core to implement inter-task communication... <<< That unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. >>> What happens nowadays AFAIS in software development is that more and more experienced developers do experience, do witness and do follow "self-organizing coding style" - that comes from works (at least for me) of "Gang of Four" on Software Design Patterns, of Kent Back and Ward Cunningham on XP, Martin Fawler on refactoring and from Chaos Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory): human brain by definition can't manage the complexity of the multi-threaded application systems running on multi-core computers we will have to program in the near future, and it's well known from the works of Fred Brooks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month ) that "adding more brains to solve a tough task" could only worsen the situation and delay the task solution sometimes very significantly... ..the answer to this challenge of software development becoming overly complex is not only to use modern advanced development tools as e.g. VS2008 is but also "give-up old habits and principles" and master and use the new ones, which are often counter-intuitive for many experienced developers (as I am): instead of trying to "design well in advance" we'd better "follow the chaos"/"rely on chaos" - I mean we should just "meet and solve the challenges of today and leave tomorrow for tomorrow" - that's what agile and lean development are for (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_software_development ) - of course agile/lean do use very reasonable methodology and tools "to bind/manage the chaos" - those methodology and tools has grown from rich development experiences of agile/lean development "apostles"... ... I was rather skeptical on "artificial intelligence" in the past but what happens today is looking like "singularity"( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ) may come true in not that far future... Sorry for my overgeneralization of this thread topic. Time to sleep here. Have a good afternoon/evening there. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I worked with a PDP-11 70 for 3 years... It was primitive by todays standards as you would even have to key-in the boot-strap sequence, when the computer rebooted, using the dip switches on the front panel, (which it would happen freguently due to some run away processes in the Cad programs we were using). In those days every byte counted. We would spend days just figuring out how to best ultilize the Common Block in the Fortran applications... whether a short, long or floating variables was to be used. (Do you remember packing 3 byte in 2 bytes, so variables could take up less space?) There were a few times when the system would crash because it would actually run out of memory. But it did teach a programmer, the proper methods, with good documentation and that every byte counted... the tighter the code the better. With so much room available so many programs and applications can be just be hacked and spagetti-coded together and let the processor speed handle dumb bottle necks... (A single user OS with 50 million lines of code originated from multi-user and multi-tasking OSs that were 10K) I now think this is all turning around as we now have so much data that unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Jim, <<< At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. >>> Was that IBM360/370 Macro Assembler or PDP-11's one or VAX? AFAIKR PDP-11 had a special machine command, which allowed to organize so called "co-routines": this machine command did put return address of the next command after the current one into stack and then did execute GOTO/JUMP to the address specified in the current command, and then co-routine used address on top of the stack to return back to the caller. Well, that was PDP-11 with Radix50 and all other tricks to have multi-tasking multi-user real time operating system running in 64KB? (Can't remember now for sure or was that 128KB or 256KB of RAM - and harddisk was 4+MB?)... Nowadays all the code optimization is done by compilers, which will inline small functions if possible etc. to produce very compact executable code... This is one of the reasons we can give-up so many development principles we have been using for years because the past development tools and overall development experience wasn't so advanced as nowadays... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 17:11:41 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:11:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: NEVER!! I can't let Max down now! LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jun 24 17:15:14 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I am going to replace 'a bunch of code' with Step X. Which is easier to follow?: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Step 2 Else Step 1 Step 2 End if If Another Contition Then Step 3 Else Step 2 Step 3 End if If FinalCondition Then Step 4 Else Step 1 Step 2 Step 3 Step 4 End if OR Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? What's wrong with Do ... initial code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here... End If End if Loop Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier to follow that a flat sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. -- Stuart On 24 Jun 2009 at 13:54, Drew Wutka wrote: > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:21:31 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:21:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a42a6ee.1701d00a.724f.0320@mx.google.com> Told ya! I am not usually into conspiracy theories.....but I think...don't quote me,...I think Susan and Charlotte are one and the same.. I say this because: 1. They are never wrong - trust me...never. 2. They are c.l.e.v.e.r. 3. When they don't have a response, neither will answer BUT when the do...step back.. Waddya think? Ps. Better take this OT...getting slapped again.. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 June 2009 23:12 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? NEVER!! I can't let Max down now! LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jun 24 17:27:10 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:27:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , Message-ID: <4A42A83E.2003.11EA7D28@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's actually "Apartment' model threading. And simultaneous I/O in different threads was always a problem with VB6 multithreading. On 24 Jun 2009 at 17:06, Drew Wutka wrote: > It is! You can multithread in VB 6, though it's compartmented (sorry, > long day, I might have the terminology wrong). It will run two distinct > thread ID's, and the processes will run completely separate. (One can > error out, and stop, and the others will keep going). One funny thing I > noticed back when I played around with that, is that in testing, I ran a > database dump, where my routine was dumping dummy data into a table. > Running against a 97 .mdb, it would eventually crash, due to a writing > clash (because since the code was running in separate threads, the OS, > not the program, was handling which process got to do what first..., so > two 'writes' at the exact same time could clash), and I would end up > with a corrupted database. Didn't have that problem with a 2000 > database, left it running until it filled the database, never crashed. > Who'da thunk that a 2000 mdb would be more stable then a 97 mdb in any > aspect! ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Oh no more to learn... why did I ever get into the computer business. > ;-) > > The multi-threaded programming sounds very interesting, though. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > <<< > ...I think I have covered the highlights... > >>> > Hi Jim, > > I suppose that: > > 5. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) > 6. Windows Workflow foundation (WF) > 7. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) > ... > > Are "must have" additions to your list if you just wanted to stay within > web > development area. > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:22:34 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:22:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a42a72e.0508d00a.67f3.3347@mx.google.com> Drew, we used to code like that with Batch.Bat files....similar anyway... I think we have moved on a bit since then...still has a place..but...perhaps better ways exist. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 23:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I am going to replace 'a bunch of code' with Step X. Which is easier to follow?: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Step 2 Else Step 1 Step 2 End if If Another Contition Then Step 3 Else Step 2 Step 3 End if If FinalCondition Then Step 4 Else Step 1 Step 2 Step 3 Step 4 End if OR Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? What's wrong with Do ... initial code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here... End If End if Loop Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier to follow that a flat sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. -- Stuart On 24 Jun 2009 at 13:54, Drew Wutka wrote: > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 17:42:03 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:42:03 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <005401c9f51c$fff07d50$ffd177f0$@spb.ru> Hi Max, No, I do not know about any VBA/VB6 code "which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it,". But if you're embedding a tracing call into every your sub and function then you can just "keep profiling/tracing the running context - the overhead shouldn't not be that significant I guess... BTW, in VB.NET/C# your request is performed by using something like that code: Console.WriteLine( "exe={0}\nclass={1}\nmethod={2}", (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Module.Name, (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().DeclaringType.ToString(), (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Name ); Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Shamil, Thanks for that. I don't suppose you just happen to have any code which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it, do you? I would love to have a line in each that says Call ShamilsFunction("Enter") Code Call ShamilsFunction("Leave") And in both cases ShamilsFunction KNOWS where it was called from..without having to expressly state the name. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 22:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From miscellany at mvps.org Wed Jun 24 17:42:07 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:42:07 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> References: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: Mark, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark Simms" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:35 PM > Although AC2007 has that cool linkage to Sharepoint lists, hardly anyone > uses it. > One big reason is that the sync feature is disabled in the run-time > version. Think: "walk before run". ;-) -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:48:21 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:48:21 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a42ad38.0702d00a.168c.ffff8f9f@mx.google.com> A more considered reply... I have looked again at step X I have to agree that to implement that in, say recursive code would NOT be easy to follow. Therefore, in my opinion....you are correct. So, the ladies are wrong. We are right... Go for it Bro.. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 23:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Step X Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:52:01 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:52:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <005401c9f51c$fff07d50$ffd177f0$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com> <005401c9f51c$fff07d50$ffd177f0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4a42ae16.0707d00a.7b2c.241d@mx.google.com> Aahh.. so it is there..but just not in VBA. Thank you, Shamil Ps. Surely there must be an API a programmer could call from VBA which tells him/her what the .module.name is? No? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 23:42 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max, No, I do not know about any VBA/VB6 code "which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it,". But if you're embedding a tracing call into every your sub and function then you can just "keep profiling/tracing the running context - the overhead shouldn't not be that significant I guess... BTW, in VB.NET/C# your request is performed by using something like that code: Console.WriteLine( "exe={0}\nclass={1}\nmethod={2}", (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Module.Name, (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().DeclaringType.ToString(), (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Name ); Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Shamil, Thanks for that. I don't suppose you just happen to have any code which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it, do you? I would love to have a line in each that says Call ShamilsFunction("Enter") Code Call ShamilsFunction("Leave") And in both cases ShamilsFunction KNOWS where it was called from..without having to expressly state the name. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 22:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 17:55:44 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:55:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a42ae16.0707d00a.7b2c.241d@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com><005401c9f51c$fff07d50$ffd177f0$@spb.ru> <4a42ae16.0707d00a.7b2c.241d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: But you aren't talking about the module are you? You want the routine name. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Aahh.. so it is there..but just not in VBA. Thank you, Shamil Ps. Surely there must be an API a programmer could call from VBA which tells him/her what the .module.name is? No? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 23:42 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max, No, I do not know about any VBA/VB6 code "which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it,". But if you're embedding a tracing call into every your sub and function then you can just "keep profiling/tracing the running context - the overhead shouldn't not be that significant I guess... BTW, in VB.NET/C# your request is performed by using something like that code: Console.WriteLine( "exe={0}\nclass={1}\nmethod={2}", (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Module.Name, (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().DeclaringType.ToString(), (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Name ); Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Shamil, Thanks for that. I don't suppose you just happen to have any code which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it, do you? I would love to have a line in each that says Call ShamilsFunction("Enter") Code Call ShamilsFunction("Leave") And in both cases ShamilsFunction KNOWS where it was called from..without having to expressly state the name. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 22:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 17:58:22 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:58:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a42af92.0a1ad00a.7bcf.2071@mx.google.com> Stu, The criterion is that is "relatively" simple to follow (my emphasis) I don't think you could code Drew's original posting and make it easy to understand...I could, but could you....off to bed now...look forward to your submission. Ps. I mean, REAL code, not pseudo code. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? What's wrong with Do ... initial code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here... End If End if Loop Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier to follow that a flat sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. -- Stuart On 24 Jun 2009 at 13:54, Drew Wutka wrote: > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jun 24 17:58:21 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:58:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4A42AF8D.17045.12070951@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Neither of your examples were easy to follow. It took me some time to work out what they were doing. Mainly because they do not do the same thing. I assume you want to implement the second version. That is: Do Step 1 If Not then Do Step2 If then Step 3 Exit Do End If Loop If then Step 4 Exit Do End if End if Loop or if you don't like using Exit Do, use flags: flg4OK = False Do Step 1 If Not then flg3OK = False Do Step2 If then Step 3 flg3OK = True End If Loop Until flg3OK If then Step 4 flg4OK = True End if End if Loop Until flg4OK -- Stuart On 24 Jun 2009 at 17:15, Drew Wutka wrote: > I am going to replace 'a bunch of code' with Step X. > > Which is easier to follow?: > > Step 1 > If SomeCondition Then > Step 2 > Else > Step 1 > Step 2 > End if > If Another Contition Then > Step 3 > Else > Step 2 > Step 3 > End if > If FinalCondition Then > Step 4 > Else > Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > End if > > OR > > Step1: > Step 1 > If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 > Step2: > Step 2 > If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 > Step3: > Step 3 > If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 > Step4: > Step 4 > > Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over > and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what > should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > What's wrong with > > Do > ... initial code here.... > If then 'else goto loop > ...more code here.... > If then 'else goto loop > ...more code here... > End If > End if > Loop > > Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier > to follow that a flat > sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 24 Jun 2009 at 13:54, Drew Wutka wrote: > > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > > > Ie: > > > > Do > > > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > > > Loop > > > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > > > Charlotte > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, > and > > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > > > Dim obj as Phone > > Dim intTries as Long > > Dim blFailed as Boolean > > intTries=0 > > Set obj=New Phone > > > > StartOfCall: > > > > blFailed=True > > intTries=intTries+1 > > If intTries=21 then Goto > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity > > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or > II-VI Business > > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender > > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether > electronic or hard copy. > > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information by persons > > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 18:10:32 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:10:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com><005401c9f51c$fff07d50$ffd177f0$@spb.ru> <4a42ae16.0707d00a.7b2c.241d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a42b277.0508d00a.63d3.44ed@mx.google.com> Whatever "piece" of code is running, it will have been "called" by a name. It is that name that we cannot access from VBA Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 June 2009 23:56 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK But you aren't talking about the module are you? You want the routine name. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Aahh.. so it is there..but just not in VBA. Thank you, Shamil Ps. Surely there must be an API a programmer could call from VBA which tells him/her what the .module.name is? No? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 23:42 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max, No, I do not know about any VBA/VB6 code "which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it,". But if you're embedding a tracing call into every your sub and function then you can just "keep profiling/tracing the running context - the overhead shouldn't not be that significant I guess... BTW, in VB.NET/C# your request is performed by using something like that code: Console.WriteLine( "exe={0}\nclass={1}\nmethod={2}", (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Module.Name, (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().DeclaringType.ToString(), (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Name ); Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Shamil, Thanks for that. I don't suppose you just happen to have any code which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it, do you? I would love to have a line in each that says Call ShamilsFunction("Enter") Code Call ShamilsFunction("Leave") And in both cases ShamilsFunction KNOWS where it was called from..without having to expressly state the name. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 22:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Jun 24 18:10:49 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:10:49 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005501c9f521$04740cd0$0d5c2670$@spb.ru> Hi Gustav, Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated data objects... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Jun 24 18:38:16 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:38:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a42b277.0508d00a.63d3.44ed@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <005201c9f510$54fb5890$fef209b0$@spb.ru> <4a429ad3.0a1ad00a.269f.7aaa@mx.google.com><005401c9f51c$fff07d50$ffd177f0$@spb.ru> <4a42ae16.0707d00a.7b2c.241d@mx.google.com> <4a42b277.0508d00a.63d3.44ed@mx.google.com> Message-ID: OK, the module isn't running, the routine/procedure is and there is no way to get that name. What I used to do was assign a constant to each routine that contained the name of the routine and then pushed that into the stack with the error information. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Whatever "piece" of code is running, it will have been "called" by a name. It is that name that we cannot access from VBA Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 24 June 2009 23:56 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK But you aren't talking about the module are you? You want the routine name. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Aahh.. so it is there..but just not in VBA. Thank you, Shamil Ps. Surely there must be an API a programmer could call from VBA which tells him/her what the .module.name is? No? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 23:42 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hi Max, No, I do not know about any VBA/VB6 code "which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it,". But if you're embedding a tracing call into every your sub and function then you can just "keep profiling/tracing the running context - the overhead shouldn't not be that significant I guess... BTW, in VB.NET/C# your request is performed by using something like that code: Console.WriteLine( "exe={0}\nclass={1}\nmethod={2}", (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Module.Name, (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().DeclaringType.ToString(), (new System.Diagnostics.StackFrame()).GetMethod().Name ); Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Shamil, Thanks for that. I don't suppose you just happen to have any code which "Knows" what the module/function/sub it is in when it is running it, do you? I would love to have a line in each that says Call ShamilsFunction("Enter") Code Call ShamilsFunction("Leave") And in both cases ShamilsFunction KNOWS where it was called from..without having to expressly state the name. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: 24 June 2009 22:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK <<< You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. >>> Hi Max, Below is a VBA framework to free/"unbind" you from "ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point" principle - of course just an outline of this framework, which can be extended much further even to simulate "finally" constructs of other programming languages - within VBA and with many exit points to lighten the coding style: ' Class Module: MyProfiler '============================== Private m_procName As String Public Sub Init(ByVal procName As String) m_procName = procName Debug.Print m_procName + ": entry" End Sub Private Sub Class_Terminate() Debug.Print m_procName + ": exit" End Sub ' Module: MyProfilerObjectFactory '================================= Public Function GetMyProfilerInstance _ (ByVal procName As String) _ As MyProfiler Dim profiler As New MyProfiler profiler.Init procName Set GetMyProfilerInstance = profiler End Function ' Module: MyProfilerTest '======================== Public Sub entryPoint() ' <= RUN IT Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("entryPoint") ' ... sub1 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub1() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub1") ' ... sub2 ' ... ' if something Exit Sub sub3 ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub2() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub2") ' ... End Sub Public Sub sub3() Dim o: Set o = GetMyProfilerInstance("sub3") ' ... End Sub ' ======= =================== Test output: =================== entryPoint: entry sub1: entry sub2: entry sub2: exit sub3: entry sub3: exit sub1: exit entryPoint: exit -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Jim, This is what I was trying to get at when I responded to Arthur's question re CallByForm, which wasn't what I was after. What I have to do to simulate the STACK is to provide a means to record that every time I enter a function/sub it is recorded and every time I leave the function/sub it is recorded. You can only reliably PUSH the STACK and POP the STACK if you have ONE ENTRY point and ONE EXIT point. When an error occurs and you are using a error handling routine in a module/class then it is easy to look at the STACK to identify how you progressed through the program to the point of the errors. All functions/subs you encountered on the way are available to you. I use a Global Boolean variable called gvRecordProgress. On each Function/Sub I have a line which says: Private function myfunctionname On error goto pfMyGlobalErrorHandler If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfPushStack("Push","myfunctionname") Code Code Onexit: If gbRecordProgress = true the call pfRecordStack("Pop","myfunctionname") Code Exit function End function Now, before you all go screaming at me, the above is taken from memory and I do not have access to Access (!) but you will get the general concept. The names have been plucked out of the air. This is just so that I can illustrate what I mean. You can switch it on/off by just changing the value of gbRecordProgress. This is also a useful way to see which functions/sub are used the most - ie, where tightening up of code would result in a big improvement overall. NOW: To get the two lines in, if you have that little toolset (mxtools or something like that) you can tell it to do the above for you and whilst it is doing it, it can actually insert the function/sub name into the line, so it only takes seconds Apologies for not remembering the name of the tool, but you all know it because you have mentioned it here many times. Max Ps. Changed subject. <<< snip >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jun 24 18:40:56 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:40:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: <005501c9f521$04740cd0$0d5c2670$@spb.ru> References: <005501c9f521$04740cd0$0d5c2670$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <55BD4EFCCDFF4399BD88CF7EDBE66491@XPS> The profox list currently has a discussion running on the use of GUIDs as surrogate keys. It seems quite a few developers there have been using them for sometime. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Gustav, Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated data objects... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Wed Jun 24 18:54:31 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:54:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) In-Reply-To: <51F7CFA68BEC43CBA5E9E53739665498@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A3FBBF9.5090400@nanaimo.ark.com> <4DE6C163451D4FFBB572DCFDD1069205@jislaptopdev> <4a414d99.1818d00a.3ba8.0ae3@mx.google.com> <4a415159.1818d00a.4f32.ffffa881@mx.google.com> <4a4155f1.0508d00a.5181.ffffab15@mx.google.com> <52422DF7E0B6408C9BCB6DEF5998DEE3@jislaptopdev> <17c80a4d0906240556h4b416312he836d2ba44e428fa@mail.gmail.com> <4A4242E5.5000403@colbyconsulting.com> <51F7CFA68BEC43CBA5E9E53739665498@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D014@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> As does Yahoo messenger (which is free to use as well). I prefer to use Yahoo's IM system for Video. Seems to work better than Skype or MSN, or at least it does where I live. VoIP is included in our ISP charge and we have two phone at home now, one VoIP and one copper cable style. regard Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, 25 June 2009 4:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Magic Jack (OT) I concur John... We speak and view our wayward daughters on Skype and Skype video almost daily. MSN also has those features. Jim This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 00:16:08 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:16:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru> <2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com> <005001c9f506$138f5820$3aae0860$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <3CADF9FF99B640D9B1C3877211D1D4AD@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: You should post the code... that would be very informative. 8-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is! You can multithread in VB 6, though it's compartmented (sorry, long day, I might have the terminology wrong). It will run two distinct thread ID's, and the processes will run completely separate. (One can error out, and stop, and the others will keep going). One funny thing I noticed back when I played around with that, is that in testing, I ran a database dump, where my routine was dumping dummy data into a table. Running against a 97 .mdb, it would eventually crash, due to a writing clash (because since the code was running in separate threads, the OS, not the program, was handling which process got to do what first..., so two 'writes' at the exact same time could clash), and I would end up with a corrupted database. Didn't have that problem with a 2000 database, left it running until it filled the database, never crashed. Who'da thunk that a 2000 mdb would be more stable then a 97 mdb in any aspect! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Oh no more to learn... why did I ever get into the computer business. ;-) The multi-threaded programming sounds very interesting, though. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? <<< ...I think I have covered the highlights... >>> Hi Jim, I suppose that: 5. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) 6. Windows Workflow foundation (WF) 7. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) ... Are "must have" additions to your list if you just wanted to stay within web development area. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Jun 24 21:33:12 2009 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:33:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net In-Reply-To: References: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: <015d01c9f53d$49599e70$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Thanks for that "cryptic" message. That cements you as a true techie. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steve Schapel > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net > > Mark, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Mark Simms" > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:35 PM > > > Although AC2007 has that cool linkage to Sharepoint lists, hardly > > anyone uses it. > > One big reason is that the sync feature is disabled in the run-time > > version. > > Think: "walk before run". ;-) > > -- > Regards > Steve > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of > virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 10:51:50 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:51:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A42AF8D.17045.12070951@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4A42AF8D.17045.12070951@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: So convoluted loops are easier to follow then clear language labels? Otay.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Neither of your examples were easy to follow. It took me some time to work out what they were doing. Mainly because they do not do the same thing. I assume you want to implement the second version. That is: Do Step 1 If Not then Do Step2 If then Step 3 Exit Do End If Loop If then Step 4 Exit Do End if End if Loop or if you don't like using Exit Do, use flags: flg4OK = False Do Step 1 If Not then flg3OK = False Do Step2 If then Step 3 flg3OK = True End If Loop Until flg3OK If then Step 4 flg4OK = True End if End if Loop Until flg4OK -- Stuart On 24 Jun 2009 at 17:15, Drew Wutka wrote: > I am going to replace 'a bunch of code' with Step X. > > Which is easier to follow?: > > Step 1 > If SomeCondition Then > Step 2 > Else > Step 1 > Step 2 > End if > If Another Contition Then > Step 3 > Else > Step 2 > Step 3 > End if > If FinalCondition Then > Step 4 > Else > Step 1 > Step 2 > Step 3 > Step 4 > End if > > OR > > Step1: > Step 1 > If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 > Step2: > Step 2 > If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 > Step3: > Step 3 > If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 > Step4: > Step 4 > > Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over > and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what > should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > What's wrong with > > Do > ... initial code here.... > If then 'else goto loop > ...more code here.... > If then 'else goto loop > ...more code here... > End If > End if > Loop > > Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier > to follow that a flat > sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. > > > -- > Stuart > > On 24 Jun 2009 at 13:54, Drew Wutka wrote: > > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > > > Ie: > > > > Do > > > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > > > Loop > > > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > > > Charlotte > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, > and > > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > > > Dim obj as Phone > > Dim intTries as Long > > Dim blFailed as Boolean > > intTries=0 > > Set obj=New Phone > > > > StartOfCall: > > > > blFailed=True > > intTries=intTries+1 > > If intTries=21 then Goto > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity > > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or > II-VI Business > > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender > > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether > electronic or hard copy. > > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information by persons > > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 10:51:56 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:51:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a42ad38.0702d00a.168c.ffff8f9f@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4a42ad38.0702d00a.168c.ffff8f9f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Seeing the light is only half the battle, spreading it is the other half! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? A more considered reply... I have looked again at step X I have to agree that to implement that in, say recursive code would NOT be easy to follow. Therefore, in my opinion....you are correct. So, the ladies are wrong. We are right... Go for it Bro.. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 23:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Step X Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 10:52:02 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:52:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A42A83E.2003.11EA7D28@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A42A83E.2003.11EA7D28@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: There ya go. Lucky I spelled VB right.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It's actually "Apartment' model threading. And simultaneous I/O in different threads was always a problem with VB6 multithreading. On 24 Jun 2009 at 17:06, Drew Wutka wrote: > It is! You can multithread in VB 6, though it's compartmented (sorry, > long day, I might have the terminology wrong). It will run two distinct > thread ID's, and the processes will run completely separate. (One can > error out, and stop, and the others will keep going). One funny thing I > noticed back when I played around with that, is that in testing, I ran a > database dump, where my routine was dumping dummy data into a table. > Running against a 97 .mdb, it would eventually crash, due to a writing > clash (because since the code was running in separate threads, the OS, > not the program, was handling which process got to do what first..., so > two 'writes' at the exact same time could clash), and I would end up > with a corrupted database. Didn't have that problem with a 2000 > database, left it running until it filled the database, never crashed. > Who'da thunk that a 2000 mdb would be more stable then a 97 mdb in any > aspect! ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Oh no more to learn... why did I ever get into the computer business. > ;-) > > The multi-threaded programming sounds very interesting, though. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > <<< > ...I think I have covered the highlights... > >>> > Hi Jim, > > I suppose that: > > 5. Windows Communication Foundation (WCF) > 6. Windows Workflow foundation (WF) > 7. Windows Presentation Foundation (WPF) > ... > > Are "must have" additions to your list if you just wanted to stay within > web > development area. > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 10:52:08 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:52:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a42a285.1c07d00a.4c63.10c0@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> <4a42a285.1c07d00a.4c63.10c0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Never give up, never surrender..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? She wont Drew...she is like Susan...Trust me..just give up....they wear you down... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:59 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 10:52:15 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:52:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jun 24 23:48:22 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:48:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates In-Reply-To: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> References: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi All: It is easy to list duplicates but what is needed to do is to list all duplicates greater than one, with only sql. Possible? Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 00:20:00 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:20:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK In-Reply-To: <4a42a38a.0a1ad00a.269f.ffff848a@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <4a42805b.1818d00a.3872.ffff8548@mx.google.com> <4a428f61.0506d00a.7036.7073@mx.google.com> <4dd71a0c0906241350q571e4e02pb5d8f8d213026870@mail.gmail.com> <4a429311.1818d00a.623e.75c0@mx.google.com> <12CC8DADFA82461DB4647AEB9E2025F3@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a4299ef.0a1ad00a.269f.7998@mx.google.com> <56BAF2CC9BA44C9DB5D535DAB8223647@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a42a38a.0a1ad00a.269f.ffff848a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8CEB0A4B82C443EC9184FE5A862FA8E2@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hey Max; I was one of those that bought the first Commodre64 in town... actually it was the second as my friend beat me to it by a few minutes and has never let me forget it... memory lane alright. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK ..bet that bought back memories, eh? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 22:53 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Ha ha ha ... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK I was in trouble when I ran Elisa on my Commodore PET and thought I was talking to Chuck Peddle (Think that was his name) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 June 2009 22:19 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Hey Max you have, like the rest of us, a 16K memory module with a fast parallel processor. You have to forget something to remember something else. Right now our computers definitely have more memory than we do and as soon as they can parallel process as fast as we can... we are in serious trouble. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK Spot On, Doug - Thanks Memory ain't wot it used to be..senior moment(s) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: 24 June 2009 21:51 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Imitating a STACK MZ-Tools. Highly recommended! > You KNOW what the tool is, I promise. I just cannot bring it to mind. It > installs as an add-in and has a host o things installed across the menu > items bar. I KNOW Susan and Charlotte use it because they have mentioned > it. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 10:57:29 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:57:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com>, , <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4a42ad38.0702d00a.168c.ffff8f9f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a439e6d.0707d00a.2ad0.41f7@mx.google.com> I must get some spectacles...I thought that word was BOTTLE until I re-read it. Prefer my version Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 25 June 2009 16:52 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Seeing the light is only half the battle, spreading it is the other half! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? A more considered reply... I have looked again at step X I have to agree that to implement that in, say recursive code would NOT be easy to follow. Therefore, in my opinion....you are correct. So, the ladies are wrong. We are right... Go for it Bro.. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 23:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Step X Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jun 25 01:57:19 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:57:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: Hi Drew and John The mistake by John here is that the Exit Loop and Exit For represent only a very restricted GoTo as they only can exit to one specific point: the end of the loop. That makes them very predictable. Still, I often refrain from these and add a flag to raise or some other condition to check to stop the loop. The really ugly thing with GoTo is that is allows you to move backwards in the code to run it over again - do I need to remind about being caught in an endless loop caused by GoTo and some condition behaving otherwise than intended? I do, from my time with Algol where the compiler running on the IBM360 stopped those loops routinely (as we were only students at the technical university). A nightmare there is no reason to promote if you ask me. /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 24-06-2009 23:58 >>> Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 11:04:37 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:04:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4A427D52.8050405@colbyconsulting.com> <4a42a285.1c07d00a.4c63.10c0@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a43a01a.1818d00a.210c.308c@mx.google.com> Sigh...oh, ok then....if I must... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 25 June 2009 16:52 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Never give up, never surrender..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 5:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? She wont Drew...she is like Susan...Trust me..just give up....they wear you down... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:59 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Why? > > Code is used to make a functional project. It's primary purpose is to > do just that. After that, the code should be organized and readable, > and as optimized as possible. With proper objects and function, this > can be accomplished. With the exception of errorhandling a goto > statement is going to be a rare case, but NOT an excluded case, to make > the code readable and organized. In my example, making a do loop would > require addition logic on each step, because when you exit a loop, it > starts all over. > > A Do Loop cannot have extra 'loop' statements. > > Ie: > > Do > > 'some condition is met: then Loop > > Loop > > Can't do that. You can do that with a Goto statement. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > A Do...Loop would be preferable to Goto. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > I think it should be said that you shouldn't use GOTO to prevent > breaking your code into more logical parts. Errorhandling is a > situation which would allow Goto then. There is another situation. > Let's use an imaginary 'Phone' object that is going to make a call, and > it needs to try 20 times unless successful: > > Dim obj as Phone > Dim intTries as Long > Dim blFailed as Boolean > intTries=0 > Set obj=New Phone > > StartOfCall: > > blFailed=True > intTries=intTries+1 > If intTries=21 then Goto > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 11:05:43 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:05:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates In-Reply-To: References: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a43a05a.0702d00a.790e.1dd5@mx.google.com> Yep, where count > 2 Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 25 June 2009 05:48 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates Hi All: It is easy to list duplicates but what is needed to do is to list all duplicates greater than one, with only sql. Possible? Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jun 25 02:14:23 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:14:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: Hi Drew This is a splendid example to demonstrate why _not_ to use GoTo. You have to read you simple example several times to get an idea what is may do. But only an idea. The first variant is much easier if you rewrite it properly: Step 1 If Not SomeCondition Then Step 1 End if Step 2 If Not Another Contition Then Step 2 End if Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Step 1 Step 2 Step 3 End if Step 4 This you can grasp by reading it once and you don't even need to know what the Step 1-4 are. /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 25-06-2009 00:15 >>> I am going to replace 'a bunch of code' with Step X. Which is easier to follow?: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Step 2 Else Step 1 Step 2 End if If Another Contition Then Step 3 Else Step 2 Step 3 End if If FinalCondition Then Step 4 Else Step 1 Step 2 Step 3 Step 4 End if OR Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? What's wrong with Do ... initial code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here... End If End if Loop Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier to follow that a flat sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. -- Stuart From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 11:19:57 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:19:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ummmmmm, that's not true, you can move forward with a Goto. A Do Loop IS always moving backwards. With a goto, you can skip code, or go back. And you can just as easily end up in a Do (or any loop, for next, while wend) loop 'forever'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew and John The mistake by John here is that the Exit Loop and Exit For represent only a very restricted GoTo as they only can exit to one specific point: the end of the loop. That makes them very predictable. Still, I often refrain from these and add a flag to raise or some other condition to check to stop the loop. The really ugly thing with GoTo is that is allows you to move backwards in the code to run it over again - do I need to remind about being caught in an endless loop caused by GoTo and some condition behaving otherwise than intended? I do, from my time with Algol where the compiler running on the IBM360 stopped those loops routinely (as we were only students at the technical university). A nightmare there is no reason to promote if you ask me. /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 24-06-2009 23:58 >>> Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 00:11:24 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:11:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <005301c9f517$bdc50b30$394f2190$@spb.ru> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> <5E93BA40ABAF43BAB2CC09A6E00D3425@creativesystemdesigns.com> <005301c9f517$bdc50b30$394f2190$@spb.ru> Message-ID: Well I think you have covered it Shamil. You have lived a dangerious life. ;-) hacking the core of an OS no less... I posted this a couple of weeks ago;... this just what John needs. Todays ultimate open-source high speed search engine... the distribution of HADOOP now available at http://developer.yahoo.com. It is being toted as "... framework for running data-intensive applications on large clusters of commodity hardware." It is also supposed to be fully distributive..."It maps data-crunching tasks across distributed machines, splitting them into tiny sub-tasks, before reducing the results into one master calculation." Around this product there is a whole group of spin-off applications. If even comes with a full set of tools for development purposes. This is a super high end OS application and according to product developers, it is capable of splitting a request across 10,000 processor cores; simultaneously. It is also supposed to be 16 times faster than the Google search engine. I will read up those links as they look very interesting. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? "Packing 3 bytes in 2 bytes" - that was Radix50 - 50 based notation system: I do remember it very well, I used to program custom handling or RSX-11M library files, which used Radix50 to pack 6 chars of files' and functions' names into four bytes etc... RSX-11M was compiled from sources for a certain target equipment, and the source code was very compact but well documented and it wasn't an issue to "hack" the OS core that days - I have had to do such hacking one time of the OS core to implement inter-task communication... <<< That unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. >>> What happens nowadays AFAIS in software development is that more and more experienced developers do experience, do witness and do follow "self-organizing coding style" - that comes from works (at least for me) of "Gang of Four" on Software Design Patterns, of Kent Back and Ward Cunningham on XP, Martin Fawler on refactoring and from Chaos Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory): human brain by definition can't manage the complexity of the multi-threaded application systems running on multi-core computers we will have to program in the near future, and it's well known from the works of Fred Brooks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month ) that "adding more brains to solve a tough task" could only worsen the situation and delay the task solution sometimes very significantly... ..the answer to this challenge of software development becoming overly complex is not only to use modern advanced development tools as e.g. VS2008 is but also "give-up old habits and principles" and master and use the new ones, which are often counter-intuitive for many experienced developers (as I am): instead of trying to "design well in advance" we'd better "follow the chaos"/"rely on chaos" - I mean we should just "meet and solve the challenges of today and leave tomorrow for tomorrow" - that's what agile and lean development are for (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_software_development ) - of course agile/lean do use very reasonable methodology and tools "to bind/manage the chaos" - those methodology and tools has grown from rich development experiences of agile/lean development "apostles"... ... I was rather skeptical on "artificial intelligence" in the past but what happens today is looking like "singularity"( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity ) may come true in not that far future... Sorry for my overgeneralization of this thread topic. Time to sleep here. Have a good afternoon/evening there. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? I worked with a PDP-11 70 for 3 years... It was primitive by todays standards as you would even have to key-in the boot-strap sequence, when the computer rebooted, using the dip switches on the front panel, (which it would happen freguently due to some run away processes in the Cad programs we were using). In those days every byte counted. We would spend days just figuring out how to best ultilize the Common Block in the Fortran applications... whether a short, long or floating variables was to be used. (Do you remember packing 3 byte in 2 bytes, so variables could take up less space?) There were a few times when the system would crash because it would actually run out of memory. But it did teach a programmer, the proper methods, with good documentation and that every byte counted... the tighter the code the better. With so much room available so many programs and applications can be just be hacked and spagetti-coded together and let the processor speed handle dumb bottle necks... (A single user OS with 50 million lines of code originated from multi-user and multi-tasking OSs that were 10K) I now think this is all turning around as we now have so much data that unless the routines are well designed the data will never be found... or it may take days. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Jim, <<< At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. >>> Was that IBM360/370 Macro Assembler or PDP-11's one or VAX? AFAIKR PDP-11 had a special machine command, which allowed to organize so called "co-routines": this machine command did put return address of the next command after the current one into stack and then did execute GOTO/JUMP to the address specified in the current command, and then co-routine used address on top of the stack to return back to the caller. Well, that was PDP-11 with Radix50 and all other tricks to have multi-tasking multi-user real time operating system running in 64KB? (Can't remember now for sure or was that 128KB or 256KB of RAM - and harddisk was 4+MB?)... Nowadays all the code optimization is done by compilers, which will inline small functions if possible etc. to produce very compact executable code... This is one of the reasons we can give-up so many development principles we have been using for years because the past development tools and overall development experience wasn't so advanced as nowadays... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi guys: In the old days, some 30 years back I did a lot of assembler coding and discovered a very neat technique for returning from a chunk of code back to anywhere in application. You would just push the address of where you wanted to return to, on the stack. That was great, as the stack pointer did not have to be set to return to the caller module. I would first set the return address to the error handler to trap any errors, in the called module and then if code completed successfully, the stack pointer was set then set to any position in the program you wanted to jump to, and then a return byte was processed. The assembler, I was using was designed to auto adjust all the changes in module position. Of course there was no internal documentation (no memory) other than a ref number to a code book. This little trick sure saved a lot of code and made the modules very flexible... The down side was if you ever lost the code printout and needed to make some changes, with all its documentation, you were screwed. I ended up being raked over the coals after someone lost my documentation manual. It took 3 people, 2 weeks to rebuild the code. At that point, I learned my lesson about the proper methods of using RETURNS and explicit GOTOs. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Arthur and Charlotte, I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother about "one exit point" principle: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and practices... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Yup. Over the years I have learned to accept this wisdom: each procedure or function should have exactly one exit point. Define the result variable and set it within your case statement, then jump out and return the result variable. No headaches or scratched foreheads that way. A. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Charlotte Foust < cfoust at infostatsystems.com> wrote: > Structured programming suggests you instead design the code so there is > no reason to use a GOTO. If you hit a condition in a particular branch, > the code naturally arrives at the exitpoint. Very clean concept, that. > > Charlotte Foust > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4184 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4186 (20090624) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 01:18:13 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:18:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Deleting duplcates In-Reply-To: <4A42AF8D.17045.12070951@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4A429EDF.29150.11C5E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4A42AF8D.17045.12070951@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <5405FADE3C7942C399B68BE961B290A3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: Solved the problem by creating any identical empty table with a key/index that would force unique records only and then appended the first table into the second table. All duplicates were gone. Jim From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Jun 25 11:24:06 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:24:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you're trying to start a fight, pick on JC. I'm busy today. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 11:34:33 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:34:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a43a71c.0508d00a.68dd.1783@mx.google.com> I use goto a lot with labels. For example, today I wanted to run some code before the main stuff but I only wanted to do it once but I didn't want to remove it. So, Goto Skip Code2RunOnce Skip: Code here to always run To run it once, I comment out the goto skip and then once it has run, I uncomment it so it skips over the Code2RunOnce. Now the purists amongst you will grimace and come up with all sorts of alternatives, but for me it is easy peasy. It works and it retains visibility of what I have done. If I need to run it again, a simple removal of a single quote and it is back in action. POWER TO ALL THE PEOPLE - RESISTANCE TO PURISTS IS NOT FUTILE. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 25 June 2009 17:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ummmmmm, that's not true, you can move forward with a Goto. A Do Loop IS always moving backwards. With a goto, you can skip code, or go back. And you can just as easily end up in a Do (or any loop, for next, while wend) loop 'forever'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:57 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew and John The mistake by John here is that the Exit Loop and Exit For represent only a very restricted GoTo as they only can exit to one specific point: the end of the loop. That makes them very predictable. Still, I often refrain from these and add a flag to raise or some other condition to check to stop the loop. The really ugly thing with GoTo is that is allows you to move backwards in the code to run it over again - do I need to remind about being caught in an endless loop caused by GoTo and some condition behaving otherwise than intended? I do, from my time with Algol where the compiler running on the IBM360 stopped those loops routinely (as we were only students at the technical university). A nightmare there is no reason to promote if you ask me. /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 24-06-2009 23:58 >>> Yep. Wait a sec...are you and I in agreement? Charlotte, just admit defeat!!! If JC and I agree on something, it HAS to be true! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And for that matter, what is an Exit Do? It is a GoTo the line after the loop. It may not be called that but that is exactly what it is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 11:35:35 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:35:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a43a75c.1701d00a.1f9c.3038@mx.google.com> Sounds like hormones...lay low... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 25 June 2009 17:24 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? If you're trying to start a fight, pick on JC. I'm busy today. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 11:35:49 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:35:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Not trying to start a fight, just making a statement. If you disagree, you're welcome to your opinion. I try not to pick on JWC.... he is strong with the force, just needs some more training... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? If you're trying to start a fight, pick on JC. I'm busy today. Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 25 07:01:08 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:01:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router Message-ID: <4A436704.1080002@colbyconsulting.com> Anyone in the US (or Canada?), newegg has a good price on a brand name router. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jun 25 06:45:20 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:45:20 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Message-ID: Hi Shamil As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, a timestamp for example. For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and could use a normal Autonumber. In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 25-06-2009 01:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated data objects... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Jun 25 12:19:32 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:19:32 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4A4140CA.6060603@colbyconsulting.com> <77E3CD48B10A4332A7E5B5C8C3DAA034@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a41519f.0a1ad00a.5666.64cc@mx.google.com> <29f585dd0906240742w5e1ffdeeu2944f7a7883881bc@mail.gmail.com> <003901c9f4e1$2c5cfbc0$8516f340$@spb.ru> <004f01c9f503$a085f390$e191dab0$@spb.ru> <5E93BA40ABAF43BAB2CC09A6E00D3425@creativesystemdesigns.com> <005301c9f517$bdc50b30$394f2190$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <000301c9f5b9$1d43b060$57cb1120$@spb.ru> Hi Jim, That hacking of the core of OS was the only solution that time I believe... Yes, HADOOP (http://hadoop.apache.org/ ) looks really interesting - I have got bookmarked it for reading/investigating when time will allow... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:11 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Well I think you have covered it Shamil. You have lived a dangerious life. ;-) hacking the core of an OS no less... I posted this a couple of weeks ago;... this just what John needs. Todays ultimate open-source high speed search engine... the distribution of HADOOP now available at http://developer.yahoo.com. It is being toted as "... framework for running data-intensive applications on large clusters of commodity hardware." It is also supposed to be fully distributive..."It maps data-crunching tasks across distributed machines, splitting them into tiny sub-tasks, before reducing the results into one master calculation." Around this product there is a whole group of spin-off applications. If even comes with a full set of tools for development purposes. This is a super high end OS application and according to product developers, it is capable of splitting a request across 10,000 processor cores; simultaneously. It is also supposed to be 16 times faster than the Google search engine. I will read up those links as they look very interesting. Jim <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4188 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Jun 25 12:19:32 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:19:32 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: <55BD4EFCCDFF4399BD88CF7EDBE66491@XPS> References: <005501c9f521$04740cd0$0d5c2670$@spb.ru> <55BD4EFCCDFF4399BD88CF7EDBE66491@XPS> Message-ID: <000701c9f5b9$23ac5060$6b04f120$@spb.ru> Hi Jim, I meant to use GUID just as "object Identity" values not as primary surrogate keys. There is an issue with GUIDs if they are used as Primary *clustered* keys/indexes on MS SQL because MS SQL server keeps table's rows physically sorted according to the value of clustered key and because generating unique GUIDs in ascending order is an additional "trouble". Also clustered key/index is used as *pointer* for other indexes of a table - therefore it's important to have clustered key value length as small as possible - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/812891/ms-sql-index-which-should-be-clust ered ... If a natural (compound) key is used as primary key/clustered index then table's rows get stored in a natural sort order... I guess (I can be wrong but such algorithm exist for more than 20-30 years for sure - it was used in VSAM - B+ - trees AFAIKR (http://www.slideshare.net/guestcc2d29/ardbms )) that if a (compound) natural key is used as Primary key and clustered index then such index's values are getting heavily compacted, and other indexes of a table, which use this clustered index as a pointer get saved a lot of cyber space - therefore using natural key as a primary key and clustered index can be even more profitable/advantageous from technical point of view than using Int/BigInt surrogate Identity keys as the latter ones do not get compacted that well as natural keys' values... Please feel free to argue. :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) The profox list currently has a discussion running on the use of GUIDs as surrogate keys. It seems quite a few developers there have been using them for sometime. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Gustav, Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated data objects... -- Shamil <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4188 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Jun 25 12:31:35 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:31:35 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000b01c9f5ba$cacdb1d0$60691570$@spb.ru> Hi Gustav, I used GUID as primary key in MS Access 97/2000 project - it worked OK - although when talking about surrogate/natural primary keys here I mean mainly MS SQL Server, which I guess is much more advanced in keeping indexes internally (please see my other post on this topic) - therefore using primary keys (if I'm not mistaken in my guessing) could be even more advantageous from several technical points of view than using surrogate Identity int/bigInt/... primary keys. And I'd use GUID just as an "object identity" without any indexing at all. <<< If this is what you have in mind, you are of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. >>> It looks like I have in mind something different? Please see my other posting in this thread. Does it makes sense? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, a timestamp for example. For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and could use a normal Autonumber. In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 25-06-2009 01:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated data objects... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4188 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From adtp at airtelmail.in Thu Jun 25 04:27:55 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:57:55 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys><29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001d01c9f577$431765d0$ed60a27a@personald6374f> William, It appears that the procedure / function called by CallByName() function has to be in a class module. Could you kindly verify again whether it works successfully for procedures / functions contained in general modules ? I am getting error 438 in such a case. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: William Hindman To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 23:21 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function Arthur ...from my treeview menu I use either of the following in a select statement 'call a function from a module, "strObjectName" is from my tblSwitchboard CallByName modules("mdlMenuFunctions"), strObjectName, VbMethod 'call a sub from the switchboard form module itself CallByName CodeContextObject, strObjectName, VbMethod, strObjectAddtnl ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Arthur Fuller" Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:04 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > Thanks, Mike. I vaguely recall that call and shall now write a little > tester > to see if it works as one might desire. > A. > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Mike Mattys > wrote: > >> Hi Arthur, >> >> There is a CallByName function >> I saw an example at PlanetSourceCode and a few items >> in Google regarding its use. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 12:43:46 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:43:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates In-Reply-To: References: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906251043u1a91b8c6idb4d4a4d60872377@mail.gmail.com> This will keep the first instance of a record, and delete all others afterward (basically coded, to do what you did by pushing them into a new table adn not allowing duplicates) You can change the MIN to a MAX to keep the last record and delete all of the earlier entries. David DELETE tblYourTable WHERE PKID IN (SELECT A.PKID FROM (SELECT PKID FROM tblYourTable WHERE SomeField IN (SELECT SomeField FROM tblYourTable GROUP BY SomeField HAVING COUNT(SomeField)>1)) A LEFT JOIN ( SELECT MIN(PKID) AS MinPKID, SomeField FROM tblYourTable WITH (NOLOCK) WHERE SomeField IN (SELECT SomeField FROM tblYourTable WITH (NOLOCK) GROUP BY SomeField HAVING COUNT(SomeField)>1 ) GROUP BY SomeField ) B ON A.PKID = B.MinPKID WHERE B.MinPKID IS NULL ) On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > It is easy to list duplicates but what is needed to do is to list all > duplicates greater than one, with only sql. > > Possible? > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Jun 25 12:46:57 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:46:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000c01c9f5bc$f11dd250$d35976f0$@spb.ru> Hi All, Have a look: http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont inues.aspx Farewell surrogate keys? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, a timestamp for example. For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and could use a normal Autonumber. In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 25-06-2009 01:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated data objects... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) Hi Shamil You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as in the example from the link: if (account == null) return; at the top of a method. However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: if (account != null) { // 20 lines of code // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) // later... } // and out we pop This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that following an "else". /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> <<< Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) >>> Hi John, Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation technology... It's unbelievable... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is less. VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on Mondays, Wednesdays, the third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on strike... I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is no consensus. An opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and while you can rationalize as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. Natural PKs on the other hand... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Arthur and Charlotte, > > I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years (especially > in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I do > not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. > > Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother > about "one exit point" principle: > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 > > http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 > > Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has > been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" > getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current > level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and > practices... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4188 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 25 12:48:55 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:48:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A43B887.3070608@colbyconsulting.com> >> A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space It takes a LOT more space. An autonumber takes 4 bytes, a guid takes 16 bytes. That is 4 times the storage for each PKID. Furthermore it is much slower as it is a string of CHARACTERS and thus comparisons require string manipulations instead of just comparing two longs in a register. String comparisons are always functions in libraries, vs a simple register to register compare (a single X86 instruction). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. > > A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, a timestamp for example. > For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and could use a normal Autonumber. > In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. > > /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 25 12:49:50 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:49:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A43B8BE.9030501@colbyconsulting.com> Hey! Don't sic him on me! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Charlotte Foust wrote: > If you're trying to start a fight, pick on JC. I'm busy today. > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that > many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' > that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. > Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling > is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be > used for what it's designed for. > > You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. > But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your > car, to use it when it's needed! > > Drew > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 25 12:52:04 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:52:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a43a75c.1701d00a.1f9c.3038@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43a75c.1701d00a.1f9c.3038@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A43B944.6070704@colbyconsulting.com> > Sounds like hormones...lay low... Speaking of which... Do you know the difference between a vitamin and a hormone? You can't hear a vitamin. Sorry, it an auditory joke, doesn't work as well written down. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Sounds like hormones...lay low... > > Max > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 13:01:27 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:01:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4A43B944.6070704@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43a75c.1701d00a.1f9c.3038@mx.google.com> <4A43B944.6070704@colbyconsulti ng.com> Message-ID: <4a43bb7a.0a04d00a.2a69.0051@mx.google.com> No worries, I heard her from here... Max Ps. It was suggested at work that we have a "Dress To Kill" day when everybody dresses up in their finest and raise money for charity. Sounded good until Jane snarled..."I come dressed to kill every day - hormones you know - so watch out!". No arguing with that, eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 25 June 2009 18:52 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > Sounds like hormones...lay low... Speaking of which... Do you know the difference between a vitamin and a hormone? You can't hear a vitamin. Sorry, it an auditory joke, doesn't work as well written down. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Sounds like hormones...lay low... > > Max > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 13:06:18 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:06:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Deep discounts In-Reply-To: <015d01c9f53d$49599e70$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> References: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <015d01c9f53d$49599e70$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: <06141AEA44A7433BA495289B55DE02C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: There seems to be some very serious discounts and offers being given on the new windows7 OS. Check it out: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/06/25/windows_7_price_discounts Jim From adtp at airtelmail.in Thu Jun 25 13:24:45 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:54:45 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates References: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00da01c9f5c2$764e18e0$aa60a27a@personald6374f> Jim, It is nice to note that your problem stands resolved. The method adopted by you is convenient and safe. Another alternative approach could be as follows: Sample select query named Q_Show_DupsBeyondFirst, as given below, would show all duplicates beyond the first occurrence in each set. T_Data is the source table while fields F1 to F4 determine the test for duplicity. ID is the primary key field. Sample delete query named Q_DEL_DupsBeyondFirst, as given below, deletes all duplicates beyond the first occurrence in each set. Caution: -------- (a) Comparison style involving combined field values e.g. F1 & F2 & F3 & F4 runs the risk of inconsistent results arising out of sliding match. For example, F1 = A and F2 = B would give the same result as F1 = AB and F2 as Null. Moreover, the contrived concatenation can detract from optimum performance. (b) It looks quite tempting to test for Not In (SELECT TOP 1 ---- etc). But here too, the ORDER BY clause involving fields F1 to F4 re-introduces the risk of sliding match mentioned in (a) above. (c) Even while using sequential count of duplicates as demonstrated in sample queries given below, it is important to use Nz() function while comparing the field values as shown. This is to prevent inconsistent count arising out of fields with Null value on either side of = operator. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ Q_Show_DupsBeyondFirst ===================================== SELECT T_Data.* FROM T_Data WHERE (SELECT Count(*) FROM T_Data AS T WHERE Nz(T.F1, "") = Nz(T_Data.F1, "") AND Nz(T.F2, "") = Nz(T_Data.F2, "") AND Nz(T.F3, "") = Nz(T_Data.F3, "") AND Nz(T.F4, "") = Nz(T_Data.F4, "") AND T.ID <= T_Data.ID) > 1 ORDER BY T_Data.F1, T_Data.F2, T_Data.F3, T_Data.F4, T_Data.ID; ===================================== Q_DEL_DupsBeyondFirst ===================================== DELETE * FROM T_Data WHERE (SELECT Count(*) FROM T_Data AS T WHERE Nz(T.F1, "") = Nz(T_Data.F1, "") AND Nz(T.F2, "") = Nz(T_Data.F2, "") AND Nz(T.F3, "") = Nz(T_Data.F3, "") AND Nz(T.F4, "") = Nz(T_Data.F4, "") AND T.ID <= T_Data.ID) > 1; ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:48 Subject: [AccessD] Deleting duplcates Hi All: Solved the problem by creating any identical empty table with a key/index that would force unique records only and then appended the first table into the second table. All duplicates were gone. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:18 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates Hi All: It is easy to list duplicates but what is needed to do is to list all duplicates greater than one, with only sql. Possible? Jim From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Jun 25 13:33:39 2009 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:33:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] converting FileMaker data into Access 03/07 In-Reply-To: <06141AEA44A7433BA495289B55DE02C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <015d01c9f53d$49599e70$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <06141AEA44A7433BA495289B55DE02C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A438AC2.167F.006B.0@niagaracounty.com> I have a user that is trying to create an Access DB to manage her clients...she is a probation officer, working at the county jail. She took a class and is doing pretty well. She called me for some guidance and we got together yesterday. After we got most of her issues ironed out, I asked about her data. She was going to retype all of these into Access. There are only 75 clients, but many are "frequent flyers" in the criminal system, and they have many different entries in their cases. I started to export from FileMaker to a DBF, and then I imported into Access, but I wasn't certain I was getting all of the memo data. I know nothing about FileMaker, which is why I am asking for help. Are any of you familiar w/this? Access is 2003...we may move into 2007, and we are using it now actually. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Jun 25 13:42:49 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:42:49 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) In-Reply-To: <4A43B887.3070608@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A43B887.3070608@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000d01c9f5c4$bef6f2e0$3ce4d8a0$@spb.ru> <<< String comparisons are always functions in libraries, vs a simple register to register compare >>> Hi John, Have a look this is an Intel Pentium machine command: <<< CMPS/CMPSB/CMPSW/CMPSD-Compare String Operands Compares the byte, word, or double word specified with the first source operand with the byte, word, or double word specified with the second source operand and sets the status flags in the EFLAGS register according to the results. >>> Just from this description one can find that comparing two strings, which differ in the first four bytes (double word) could be performed quicker than comparing two values in processor's registers as those values have to be loaded into registers first of all... ...furthermore if the hypothesis that MS SQL Server natural keys/indexes are kept very well compacted (and surrogate keys indexes can't be compacted that well - especially for large databases) is true then such indexes will occupy considerably less space than surrogate int Identity columns based indexes... Recap: ====== - it's technically possible that natural keys will provide considerably better performance than surrogate keys, and will use less resources? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 9:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead?) >> A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space It takes a LOT more space. An autonumber takes 4 bytes, a guid takes 16 bytes. That is 4 times the storage for each PKID. Furthermore it is much slower as it is a string of CHARACTERS and thus comparisons require string manipulations instead of just comparing two longs in a register. String comparisons are always functions in libraries, vs a simple register to register compare (a single X86 instruction). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Shamil > > As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. > > A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, a timestamp for example. > For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and could use a normal Autonumber. > In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. > > /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4188 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4189 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jun 25 13:50:08 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:50:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points In-Reply-To: <000c01c9f5bc$f11dd250$d35976f0$@spb.ru> References: <000c01c9f5bc$f11dd250$d35976f0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4A43C6E0.3010709@colbyconsulting.com> > Farewell surrogate keys? I think not. My primary reason for surrogate keys is simply that using an ever increasing number of fields as the FOREIGN KEYS down into child tables just sucks. It sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / storage size issue. Your data in a great great grandchild table can be dwarfed by the FK of the parent record. And try refactoring the tables when the business rules change and add a field way up the chain to the PK of the great-great-grandparent table. You will be rethinking natural keys in a hurry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi All, > > Have a look: > > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont > inues.aspx > > Farewell surrogate keys? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- > PHP Instead?) > > Hi Shamil > > As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one > location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use > a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been > available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. > > A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - > random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, > a timestamp for example. > For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company > table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and > could use a normal Autonumber. > In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company > table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location > and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are > of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. > > /gustav > > >>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 25-06-2009 01:10 >>> > Hi Gustav, > > Yes, "the single exit point is not a B/W discussion" (as most of the others > we keep under this thread) - did I say I'd not use the same construct you > presented in your posting? - in fact I mean I can use both depending on how > I will come to my solution/what case I will program first... > > As for "PK great debate" - I'm now just guessing that ADO.NET Entity > Framework could break one of the last and most "rigid" of my habits to use > AutoNumber/Identity PK for all and every tables, and not only for lookup > tables but also for relation tables: using of AutoNumber/Identity PK comes > IMO mainly from technical/common sense (but again based on technical > issues(?)) reasons, and ADO.NET Entity Framework, I guess, can "annul all > that reasons", and cascade update can help to solve "fragile" natural > primary key issue (hear, hear (JC ? :)) - cascade update is the greatest > evils - and I do not use it currently...). And there could be GUID field > introduced instead of Autonumber/Identity PK - but just to keep "object > identity" in this becoming so distributed world with myriad times replicated > data objects... > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:48 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- > PHP Instead?) > > Hi Shamil > > You may do so but why would you? If you don't have an Id as the primary key > of the underlying table, you will have to construct one, and I just don't > think it is worth wasting time on this when applying an Id resolves the task > in a second. I even apply the Id to a table of countries because the ISO > codes _may_ change (rarely I know) but - more importantly - I don't have to > decide for using the alpha or the numeric ISO code as the key. > > As for the single exit point, I don't think this a B/W discussion. Sometimes > it is convenient to drop out at once when a simple condition is not met as > in the example from the link: > > if (account == null) return; > > at the top of a method. > > However, I wouldn't put this somewhere many lines down as it is impossible > to read; if you find such a line you will have to study every other part to > look for similar lines. Thus, I much prefer the traditional construct: > > if (account != null) > { > // 20 lines of code > // (that are totally irrelevant if account is null) > // later... > } > // and out we pop > > This you can browse in a split second, and should you later need to apply > some code for the case (account == null) it is very easy to insert that > following an "else". > > /gustav > > >>>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 24-06-2009 20:41 >>> > <<< > Natural PKs on the other hand... > ;) > Hi John, > > Do you mean "great PK debate"? :) > > I feel that I will soon give up even "use Autonumber/Identity field for > every table" principle, which I do strictly follow for many years, in the > case ADO.NET Entity Framework will become my main Data Access/Manipulation > technology... > > It's unbelievable... > > -- > Shamil > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > And I contend that if the garbage collector is airtight then the need is > less. > > VBA OTOH has a garbage collector that belongs to a union, it only works on > Mondays, Wednesdays, the > third Fridays and never on holidays. Unless of course it is just out on > strike... > > I think from reading the articles and the comments underneath that there is > no consensus. An > opinion is an opinion is an opinion. Man is a rationalization machine and > while you can rationalize > as many exit points as you want, I can rationalize only a single exit point. > > Natural PKs on the other hand... > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi Arthur and Charlotte, >> >> I used to use the same "one exit point" principle over the years > (especially >> in my VBA programming) but I must note it's becoming obsolete nowadays: I > do >> not use it almost at all anymore in my C#/VB.NET development. >> >> Have a look what is the reasoning behind this "new approach" to not bother >> about "one exit point" principle: >> >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=631745 >> >> http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.325456.34 >> >> Everything seems to be changing in programming these days but one who has >> been in programming for some time can rather clearly see we're "just" >> getting repeating/rethinking of "good old habits" but on higher current >> level of evolution spiral of computer science, programming methods and >> practices... >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil > > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 13:51:04 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error or mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another structure control call. I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 13:58:47 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:58:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router In-Reply-To: <4A436704.1080002@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A436704.1080002@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <7D2CB347EBF3463BA66D433A726AE855@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is an excellent price... John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router Anyone in the US (or Canada?), newegg has a good price on a brand name router. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 14:04:37 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:04:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver. When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew: Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error or mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another structure control call. I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Thu Jun 25 14:15:54 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:15:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A1A@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Not to take away from Newegg (I really like them) but I can pick up a linksys wireless N router for $54 at the local Wal-mart. This is the standard N router, not the RangePlus or Ultra RangePlus. It's backwards compatible with Wireless G and Wireless B. I seem to get a better range on it over the Wireless G router in the link, especially when using a wireless N nic and the speed when connecting with Wireless N is great. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Good price on router That is an excellent price... John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router Anyone in the US (or Canada?), newegg has a good price on a brand name router. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Jun 25 14:30:53 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:30:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points In-Reply-To: <4A43C6E0.3010709@colbyconsulting.com> References: <000c01c9f5bc$f11dd250$d35976f0$@spb.ru> <4A43C6E0.3010709@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000e01c9f5cb$758645f0$6092d1d0$@spb.ru> Hi John, Let me note that this thread is discussed in context of "ADO.NET Entity framework plays farewell for manual SQL coding". Please read this blog entry: http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont inues.aspx with Anthony Thomas comment (here is one excerpt): <<< In either case, the table KEY (because it is "the" key) will be used more frequently than most other attributes or composites for restriction on the broadest set of available queries. As such, defining this key clustered has enormous benefit, and more so than the surrogate, which is typically unknown to the end users. >>> Now, after you've got read all the above, and assuming that ADO.NET Entity Framework is used as the main data access/manipulation technology can you still state strongly that using natural keys instead of surrogate keys "sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / storage size issue."? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points > Farewell surrogate keys? I think not. My primary reason for surrogate keys is simply that using an ever increasing number of fields as the FOREIGN KEYS down into child tables just sucks. It sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / storage size issue. Your data in a great great grandchild table can be dwarfed by the FK of the parent record. And try refactoring the tables when the business rules change and add a field way up the chain to the PK of the great-great-grandparent table. You will be rethinking natural keys in a hurry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi All, > > Have a look: > > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont > inues.aspx > > Farewell surrogate keys? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- > PHP Instead?) > > Hi Shamil > > As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one > location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use > a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been > available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. > > A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - > random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, > a timestamp for example. > For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company > table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and > could use a normal Autonumber. > In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company > table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location > and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are > of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. > > /gustav > <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4189 (20090625) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 15:17:32 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:17:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates In-Reply-To: <00da01c9f5c2$764e18e0$aa60a27a@personald6374f> References: <4a42a0f6.0707d00a.4440.4709@mx.google.com> <00da01c9f5c2$764e18e0$aa60a27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: <611F14163F6B49FCAFA5B5E69E41CE6E@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thank you A. D. Tejal. I will keep your solution in my backup... in case I forget again. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] deleting duplicates Jim, It is nice to note that your problem stands resolved. The method adopted by you is convenient and safe. Another alternative approach could be as follows: Sample select query named Q_Show_DupsBeyondFirst, as given below, would show all duplicates beyond the first occurrence in each set. T_Data is the source table while fields F1 to F4 determine the test for duplicity. ID is the primary key field. Sample delete query named Q_DEL_DupsBeyondFirst, as given below, deletes all duplicates beyond the first occurrence in each set. Caution: -------- (a) Comparison style involving combined field values e.g. F1 & F2 & F3 & F4 runs the risk of inconsistent results arising out of sliding match. For example, F1 = A and F2 = B would give the same result as F1 = AB and F2 as Null. Moreover, the contrived concatenation can detract from optimum performance. (b) It looks quite tempting to test for Not In (SELECT TOP 1 ---- etc). But here too, the ORDER BY clause involving fields F1 to F4 re-introduces the risk of sliding match mentioned in (a) above. (c) Even while using sequential count of duplicates as demonstrated in sample queries given below, it is important to use Nz() function while comparing the field values as shown. This is to prevent inconsistent count arising out of fields with Null value on either side of = operator. Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ Q_Show_DupsBeyondFirst ===================================== SELECT T_Data.* FROM T_Data WHERE (SELECT Count(*) FROM T_Data AS T WHERE Nz(T.F1, "") = Nz(T_Data.F1, "") AND Nz(T.F2, "") = Nz(T_Data.F2, "") AND Nz(T.F3, "") = Nz(T_Data.F3, "") AND Nz(T.F4, "") = Nz(T_Data.F4, "") AND T.ID <= T_Data.ID) > 1 ORDER BY T_Data.F1, T_Data.F2, T_Data.F3, T_Data.F4, T_Data.ID; ===================================== Q_DEL_DupsBeyondFirst ===================================== DELETE * FROM T_Data WHERE (SELECT Count(*) FROM T_Data AS T WHERE Nz(T.F1, "") = Nz(T_Data.F1, "") AND Nz(T.F2, "") = Nz(T_Data.F2, "") AND Nz(T.F3, "") = Nz(T_Data.F3, "") AND Nz(T.F4, "") = Nz(T_Data.F4, "") AND T.ID <= T_Data.ID) > 1; ===================================== ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:48 Subject: [AccessD] Deleting duplcates Hi All: Solved the problem by creating any identical empty table with a key/index that would force unique records only and then appended the first table into the second table. All duplicates were gone. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:18 Subject: [AccessD] deleting duplicates Hi All: It is easy to list duplicates but what is needed to do is to list all duplicates greater than one, with only sql. Possible? Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 15:22:34 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:22:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <"B157D2E91572440480 CAA 67C50DC073C"@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: My father use to call a hammer a yankee screw-driver. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver. When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew: Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error or mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another structure control call. I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 15:25:40 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:25:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A1A@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A1A@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: That also sounds good to me. When the only wireless router you have costs $8 (and works like it) anything sounds good. Very good ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Good price on router Not to take away from Newegg (I really like them) but I can pick up a linksys wireless N router for $54 at the local Wal-mart. This is the standard N router, not the RangePlus or Ultra RangePlus. It's backwards compatible with Wireless G and Wireless B. I seem to get a better range on it over the Wireless G router in the link, especially when using a wireless N nic and the speed when connecting with Wireless N is great. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Good price on router That is an excellent price... John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Good price on router Anyone in the US (or Canada?), newegg has a good price on a brand name router. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:31:17 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:31:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a hammer ;) D On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > My father use to call a hammer a yankee screw-driver. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a > screw-driver. > > When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Hi Drew: > > Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error > or > mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used > to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... > > That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If > there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the > program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. > > It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another > structure > control call. > > I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does > not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I > would > never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that > many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' > that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. > Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling > is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be > used for what it's designed for. > > You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. > But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your > car, to use it when it's needed! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the > "spaghetti Code" > > > > Max > Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me > of > me... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. > > A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something > needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:36:25 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:36:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> ...and your head the nail?? Been there!! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: 25 June 2009 21:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a hammer ;) D On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > My father use to call a hammer a yankee screw-driver. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a > screw-driver. > > When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Hi Drew: > > Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error > or > mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used > to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... > > That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If > there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the > program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. > > It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another > structure > control call. > > I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does > not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I > would > never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that > many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' > that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. > Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling > is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be > used for what it's designed for. > > You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. > But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your > car, to use it when it's needed! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the > "spaghetti Code" > > > > Max > Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me > of > me... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. > > A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something > needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:43:58 2009 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:43:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <8786a4c00906251343l24d0c65cj3fc700028e3abcbd@mail.gmail.com> You know here too? :) On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > ...and your head the nail?? Been there!! > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: 25 June 2009 21:31 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a > hammer ;) > > D Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > My father use to call a hammer a yankee screw-driver. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:05 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a > > screw-driver. > > > > When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... > > > > Max > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Hi Drew: > > > > Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error > > or > > mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is > used > > to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... > > > > That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. > If > > there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the > > program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. > > > > It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another > > structure > > control call. > > > > I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way > does > > not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I > > would > > never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that > > many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' > > that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. > > Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling > > is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be > > used for what it's designed for. > > > > You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. > > But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your > > car, to use it when it's needed! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the > > "spaghetti Code" > > > > > > > > Max > > Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me > > of > > me... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > > Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. > > > > A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something > > needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. > > > > > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > > person or entity > > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > > Business > > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > > the sender > > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or > > hard copy. > > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > > dissemination, > > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information > > by persons > > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Jun 25 15:42:49 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:42:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hmmn....When you were making wise cracks about hormones, perhaps?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? ...and your head the nail?? Been there!! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: 25 June 2009 21:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a hammer ;) D From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:51:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:51:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a43e350.0506d00a.2e62.ffff93bc@mx.google.com> Sorry, thought you were off-line.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 25 June 2009 21:43 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hmmn....When you were making wise cracks about hormones, perhaps?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? ...and your head the nail?? Been there!! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: 25 June 2009 21:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a hammer ;) D -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:51:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:51:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <8786a4c00906251343l24d0c65cj3fc700028e3abcbd@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251343l24d0c65cj3fc700028e3abcbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4a43e352.0506d00a.2e62.ffff93c1@mx.google.com> A close friend, I think. Been there, got the T-Shirt, worn it, washed it and threw it away... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: 25 June 2009 21:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? You know here too? :) On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:36 PM, Max Wanadoo wrote: > ...and your head the nail?? Been there!! > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: 25 June 2009 21:31 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a > hammer ;) > > D Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > My father use to call a hammer a yankee screw-driver. > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:05 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a > > screw-driver. > > > > When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... > > > > Max > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > > Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Hi Drew: > > > > Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error > > or > > mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is > used > > to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... > > > > That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. > If > > there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the > > program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. > > > > It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another > > structure > > control call. > > > > I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way > does > > not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I > > would > > never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that > > many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' > > that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. > > Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling > > is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be > > used for what it's designed for. > > > > You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. > > But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your > > car, to use it when it's needed! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the > > "spaghetti Code" > > > > > > > > Max > > Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me > > of > > me... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > > Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > > > Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. > > > > A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something > > needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. > > > > > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > > person or entity > > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > > Business > > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > > the sender > > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or > > hard copy. > > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > > dissemination, > > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this > information > > by persons > > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 15:59:27 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:59:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: David: Ha ha ha hence the prefex 'ex'? ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a hammer ;) D On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > My father use to call a hammer a yankee screw-driver. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:05 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > >>In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a > screw-driver. > > When all you have is a hammer, all screws look like nails... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: 25 June 2009 19:51 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Hi Drew: > > Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error > or > mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used > to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... > > That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If > there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the > program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. > > It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another > structure > control call. > > I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does > not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I > would > never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that > many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' > that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. > Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling > is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be > used for what it's designed for. > > You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. > But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your > car, to use it when it's needed! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the > "spaghetti Code" > > > > Max > Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me > of > me... > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: 24 June 2009 22:47 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? > > Ummmm, no. What I am describing is a jump point. Not a loop. > > A loop does something over and over. A jump point is when something > needs to be 'looped' but conditionally on many factors. > > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 16:07:42 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:07:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <3CADF9FF99B640D9B1C3877211D1D4AD@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com><000001c9f377$4810d410$d8327c30$@spb.ru><2209C4A8CCE1402E8A89559078CD4256@creativesystemdesigns.com><005001c9f506$138f5820$3aae0860$@spb.ru> <3CADF9FF99B640D9B1C3877211D1D4AD@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, I don't really have a 'test' project anymore, at least none that I could find. There's several steps involved. If this is something you are really interested in (I've only used it a few times), I could send you something I built that uses this. It's a program I don't use anymore, that would update a site with pictures it downloaded from another site. These 'pictures' (and some data) were downloaded as zip files. Once a file was downloaded, it would launch an unzip routine, in another thread, while it began to download the other files. Worked pretty well, the downloading was never interrupted by the unzip processes, so when the downloading was complete, usually it just had to wait for the last unzip, before it would continue the process of updating the site and database. The fun part of multi-threading in VB6 like this (keep in mind, you can't do this with VBA), is communicating between threads. Lots of API calls. But if you'd like to take a look at that particular program let me know, and I'll send it to you offlist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew: You should post the code... that would be very informative. 8-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? It is! You can multithread in VB 6, though it's compartmented (sorry, long day, I might have the terminology wrong). It will run two distinct thread ID's, and the processes will run completely separate. (One can error out, and stop, and the others will keep going). One funny thing I noticed back when I played around with that, is that in testing, I ran a database dump, where my routine was dumping dummy data into a table. Running against a 97 .mdb, it would eventually crash, due to a writing clash (because since the code was running in separate threads, the OS, not the program, was handling which process got to do what first..., so two 'writes' at the exact same time could clash), and I would end up with a corrupted database. Didn't have that problem with a 2000 database, left it running until it filled the database, never crashed. Who'da thunk that a 2000 mdb would be more stable then a 97 mdb in any aspect! ;) Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 16:13:51 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 16:13:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com><9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com><4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com><4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Sigh...the irony.... And how many people would say that you should never use Access as a serious development tool? Yet how many people on this list have made good money doing that? To say you would never use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver is really just acknowledging that you have yet to find the screw that needed a kitchen knife to operate it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew: Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error or mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another structure control call. I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jun 25 16:22:30 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:22:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <"B157D2E91572440480 CAA6 7C50DC073C"@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <47C0A76B7856469AACC8224DE5AB30BE@creativesystemdesigns.com> Your off the subject Drew ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Sigh...the irony.... And how many people would say that you should never use Access as a serious development tool? Yet how many people on this list have made good money doing that? To say you would never use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver is really just acknowledging that you have yet to find the screw that needed a kitchen knife to operate it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew: Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error or mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another structure control call. I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 17:03:35 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:03:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> <8786a4c00906251331s6784b24btb9e707e21b0a5b5e@mail.gmail.com> <4a43dfcc.0707d00a.525f.1b6d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a43f439.1c07d00a.6689.206d@mx.google.com> Charlotte, Exactly where is the last resort. I'm thinking of going there.. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 25 June 2009 21:43 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hmmn....When you were making wise cracks about hormones, perhaps?? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? ...and your head the nail?? Been there!! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: 25 June 2009 21:31 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? My ex wife considered a butter knife a screwdriver and a high heel shoe a hammer ;) D -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jun 25 17:55:21 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:55:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Good Practice Paradigm Issues: The Goto Statement WAS:RE: Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: <47C0A76B7856469AACC8224DE5AB30BE@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com><29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com><9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com><4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com><4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com><4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com><"B157D2E91572440480 CAA 6 7C50DC073C "@creativesystemdesigns.com> <47C0A76B7856469AACC8224DE5AB30BE@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Me? Did you see all the posts about women, and high heels, etc... ;) The point I am trying to make, is that there have been several 'bad practice' speeches by the purists, and it's a paradigm that needs to change. A tool doesn't automatically create bad work, using a tool wrong, or using the wrong tool does. And as I've pointed out, the irony is that the tool which is behind the creation of this very list, has often been crammed into this paradigm. In the movie 'Flash of Genius', the main character (the inventor of the intermittent wiper) says 'an Inventor must use the tools available to him to create something new'. Which is very true. So if you take a tool OUT of the list of available tools, by claiming it's 'bad practice', you are limiting the potential inventions. Plus, I personally have had to deal with the outcome of inexperienced developers taking 'bad practice' guidelines WAY too seriously, creating utter chaos and unreadable code/projects. Deal with that once, and you'll never refer to a tool as 'bad practice'. Just a result. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Your off the subject Drew ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 2:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Sigh...the irony.... And how many people would say that you should never use Access as a serious development tool? Yet how many people on this list have made good money doing that? To say you would never use a kitchen knife as a screwdriver is really just acknowledging that you have yet to find the screw that needed a kitchen knife to operate it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 1:51 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew: Actually, GOTO is needed in MS Access to gracefully recover from an error or mini-crash... like a RTI, Return Through Interrupt. That is why it is used to manage errors. When all else fails GOTO recover... That is why the 'On Error GOTO...' is placed at the top of the routine. If there was no GOTO to recover to, all the variables could be lost and the program would probably, fail displaying an unrecoverable error. It should be used in the case of emergency and not just as another structure control call. I have found that just because something can be used in a certain way does not mean it should be used in that way. In my opinion. For instance, I would never use a kitchen knife as a screw-driver... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Ya know Max, it's ironic, that on a list dedicated to a product that many in the IT world sees as 'bad practice', we have die hard 'purists' that can't see the forest through the trees. Goto can be misused. Everything can be misused. The fact that Goto is used in Errorhandling is EXACTLY why it's NOT a bad tool. It's just a tool that should be used for what it's designed for. You probably shouldn't drive cross country on your donut spare tire. But that doesn't make it bad practice to keep that donut tire in your car, to use it when it's needed! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Drew, could it have been done in a recursive fashion, better than the "spaghetti Code" Max Ps. I love this song....be my soldier boy....1962 top hits. Reminds me of me... The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Jun 25 19:30:57 2009 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:30:57 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering In-Reply-To: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local> Message-ID: <096FE5F2B730447AA376D6910C3E8083@AB> Using Autonumber for surrogate primary keys, I often need to manage custom autonumbering for alternate unique keys, e.g. for order numbers. I know this subject has been discussed several times before, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archive. How do you manage custom autonumbering? I do it this way, which may not be the most efficient, so I'm calling for other suggestions: 1. On the form I set the property DefaultValue at design-time for the control holding the custom autonumbering field to: =DMAX(,) + 1 This will do in single-user environments, but will invite duplicate values in multi-user environments. So I use this run-time code in addition to the design-time DefaultValue: 2. Assuming the custom autonumbering field is called OrderNumber in a table called tblOrders: Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) Dim intOrderNumber_Default As Integer Dim intOrderNumber_RunTime As Integer If NewRecord Then intOrderNumber_Default = OrderNumber.Value intOrderNumber_Runtine = DMAX("OrderNumber","tblOrders") + 1 If intOrderNumber_Runtime <> intOrderNumber_Default Then OrderNumber.Value = intOrderNumber_Runtime MsgBox "Another user has created a new order with the number " & _ intOrderNumber_Default & vbNewline & _ "Your order has got the number " & intOrderNumber_Runtime End If End If End Sub Do you think this solution has any pitfalls, or do you just have another more efficient/intelligent custom autonumbering? Asger From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 19:59:55 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:59:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Message-ID: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) Susan H. From kathryn at bassett.net Thu Jun 25 20:10:42 2009 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:10:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> Message-ID: <005d01c9f5fa$ed75a8b0$c860fa10$@net> "Click all that apply" but it only let's you choose one thing. So here's my choices: * I don't care for the new interface, but I'll adapt -- eventually. * Once I found the add-in that matches menu items to the new Ribbon, I was Okay. * Microsoft must hate Access developers. * Microsoft hopes to push SQL Server and .NET by destroying Access' development features. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:00 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > > > Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 20:18:12 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:18:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <005d01c9f5fa$ed75a8b0$c860fa10$@net> Message-ID: <85D553DFF11E4F848F1C7FC705428699@SusanOne> Thanks Kathryn -- I've let the editor know. I checked it and it clearly is programmed to allow you to check them all if you like -- no clue what the problem is. If you guys want to hold off until tomorrow, it'll probably be fixed by then. Susan H. "Click all that apply" but it only let's you choose one thing. So here's my choices: * I don't care for the new interface, but I'll adapt -- eventually. * Once I found the add-in that matches menu items to the new Ribbon, I was Okay. * Microsoft must hate Access developers. * Microsoft hopes to push SQL Server and .NET by destroying Access' development features. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jun 25 21:55:40 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:55:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4A4438AC.1825.4C94FCD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You should also ask whether the responder is an end user or a developer. I suspect the response to that will tie in closely with whether they pick option 1 or 2. -- Stuart On 25 Jun 2009 at 20:59, Susan Harkins wrote: > > > Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Thu Jun 25 22:43:09 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:43:09 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> Message-ID: <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> Susan, Is this just for fun, or can you say what the purpose of this survey is? Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:59 PM To: Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > > Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) > > Susan H. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4190 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 23:08:45 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:08:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> Message-ID: <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> Many of the polls do help us hone the type of tips and articles. This one, really just lets the readers vent a little -- share their own experiences with 2007. We can glean a bit of information from it though, so it's not a wasted effort or anything like that. Microsoft's not listening, if that's what you're wondering. Susan H. > Susan, > > Is this just for fun, or can you say what the purpose of this survey is? > > Regards From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jun 26 00:20:26 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:20:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering In-Reply-To: <096FE5F2B730447AA376D6910C3E8083@AB> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local> <096FE5F2B730447AA376D6910C3E8083@AB> Message-ID: Hi Asger, what's the reasoning for just not using an Autonumber field? It looks like you do want it sequential. You can start it at any number you want, by appending the number (-1) into the table, then compacting the database, and deleting that appended record. Now, if it must be sequential, and you need to provide the ability to allow for slips, which would negate a normal Autonumber field, what I would recommend is to use two autonumber fields. One in the primary table, with the actual data. Make this the actual key too. Then, when an 'order number' is really ready to be created (so when you would run your normal code), have a second table with another Autonumber (which would be the order number), and a plain long integer as the foreign key from the data table. That will let you keep the second table sequential, while not having to worry about duplicates..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Using Autonumber for surrogate primary keys, I often need to manage custom autonumbering for alternate unique keys, e.g. for order numbers. I know this subject has been discussed several times before, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archive. How do you manage custom autonumbering? I do it this way, which may not be the most efficient, so I'm calling for other suggestions: 1. On the form I set the property DefaultValue at design-time for the control holding the custom autonumbering field to: =DMAX(,
) + 1 This will do in single-user environments, but will invite duplicate values in multi-user environments. So I use this run-time code in addition to the design-time DefaultValue: 2. Assuming the custom autonumbering field is called OrderNumber in a table called tblOrders: Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) Dim intOrderNumber_Default As Integer Dim intOrderNumber_RunTime As Integer If NewRecord Then intOrderNumber_Default = OrderNumber.Value intOrderNumber_Runtine = DMAX("OrderNumber","tblOrders") + 1 If intOrderNumber_Runtime <> intOrderNumber_Default Then OrderNumber.Value = intOrderNumber_Runtime MsgBox "Another user has created a new order with the number " & _ intOrderNumber_Default & vbNewline & _ "Your order has got the number " & intOrderNumber_Runtime End If End If End Sub Do you think this solution has any pitfalls, or do you just have another more efficient/intelligent custom autonumbering? Asger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 01:20:53 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:20:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT:Liferay In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906220937q8dc8edfl39ceb2b010c57b22@mail.gmail.com> <29f585dd0906220948v3201cf92ycb1897d27d97431d@mail.gmail.com> <9DBE71E3CA8743D1932EFDE1BBE5FA99@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a40f54c.0506d00a.2485.0c0f@mx.google.com> <4a41421d.1c07d00a.02fe.2b9a@mx.google.com> <4a42a02f.1818d00a.3872.ffffb393@mx.google.com> <"B157D2E91572440480 C AA 67C50DC073C"@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a43ca48.1c05d00a.7fd8.6a6a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a4468c4.1818d00a.210c.13ba@mx.google.com> Not sure where I can post this, but I have also sent it to OT-Tech Anybody got any experience of LifeRay www.liferay.com Particularly if they know of any other similar ones to compare it to. Thanks Max From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 26 02:07:52 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:07:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Message-ID: Hi Susan > no clue what the problem is. Problem is that some inexperienced student programmed this. Page one in "GUI basics" states that selections of radio buttons are mutually exclusive. /gustav >>> ssharkins at gmail.com 26-06-2009 03:18 >>> Thanks Kathryn -- I've let the editor know. I checked it and it clearly is programmed to allow you to check them all if you like -- no clue what the problem is. If you guys want to hold off until tomorrow, it'll probably be fixed by then. Susan H. "Click all that apply" but it only let's you choose one thing. So here's my choices: * I don't care for the new interface, but I'll adapt -- eventually. * Once I found the add-in that matches menu items to the new Ribbon, I was Okay. * Microsoft must hate Access developers. * Microsoft hopes to push SQL Server and .NET by destroying Access' development features. -- From fuller.artful at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 02:18:01 2009 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 03:18:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29f585dd0906260018w56eea671n8d36cca57b1c7b3@mail.gmail.com> Quite right, Gustav. Radio buttons are for mutually exclusive choices, and checkboxes are for individual choices. I am astounded that people don't understand this most basic point about UI. No wonder software is hard to use! A. On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 3:07 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Susan > > > no clue what the problem is. > > Problem is that some inexperienced student programmed this. > Page one in "GUI basics" states that selections of radio buttons are > mutually exclusive. > > /gustav > From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 26 03:40:09 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:40:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Message-ID: Hi Shamil and John Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a farewell to the surrogate key. How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the house. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 25-06-2009 21:30 >>> Hi John, Let me note that this thread is discussed in context of "ADO.NET Entity framework plays farewell for manual SQL coding". Please read this blog entry: http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Continues.aspx with Anthony Thomas comment (here is one excerpt): <<< In either case, the table KEY (because it is "the" key) will be used more frequently than most other attributes or composites for restriction on the broadest set of available queries. As such, defining this key clustered has enormous benefit, and more so than the surrogate, which is typically unknown to the end users. >>> Now, after you've got read all the above, and assuming that ADO.NET Entity Framework is used as the main data access/manipulation technology can you still state strongly that using natural keys instead of surrogate keys "sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / storage size issue."? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points > Farewell surrogate keys? I think not. My primary reason for surrogate keys is simply that using an ever increasing number of fields as the FOREIGN KEYS down into child tables just sucks. It sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / storage size issue. Your data in a great great grandchild table can be dwarfed by the FK of the parent record. And try refactoring the tables when the business rules change and add a field way up the chain to the PK of the great-great-grandparent table. You will be rethinking natural keys in a hurry. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi All, > > Have a look: > > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont > inues.aspx > > Farewell surrogate keys? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net -- > PHP Instead?) > > Hi Shamil > > As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one > location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, use > a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been > available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. > > A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space and - > random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for sorting, > a timestamp for example. > For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company > table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table and > could use a normal Autonumber. > In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the Company > table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location > and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you are > of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. > > /gustav > <<< snip >>> From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Jun 26 05:36:14 2009 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:36:14 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering In-Reply-To: References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local><096FE5F2B730447AA376D6910C3E8083@AB> Message-ID: <0AE9BE0871734B78BFEB574C0586E565@AB> Thanks Drew. Just to make sure I get you right, is this what you are suggesting: tblOrders: tblOrderNumbers: OrderID (PK, Autonumber) OrderNumber (PK, Autonumber) Date OrderID (FK, Long integer) CustomerID etc. Then tblOrders and tblOrderNumbers would have a one-to-one relationship on OrderID, and I could fetch the sequential OrderNumber querying tblOrderNumbers. This may be viable, but it would require an insert to tblOrderNumbers for each new insert to tblOrders, and it would require joining two tables for querying orderinformation including the ordernumber. I know using DMAX imposes an overhead, but is this more expensive in terms of performance than using the two-table solution? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Drew Wutka Sendt: 26. juni 2009 07:20 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Hi Asger, what's the reasoning for just not using an Autonumber field? It looks like you do want it sequential. You can start it at any number you want, by appending the number (-1) into the table, then compacting the database, and deleting that appended record. Now, if it must be sequential, and you need to provide the ability to allow for slips, which would negate a normal Autonumber field, what I would recommend is to use two autonumber fields. One in the primary table, with the actual data. Make this the actual key too. Then, when an 'order number' is really ready to be created (so when you would run your normal code), have a second table with another Autonumber (which would be the order number), and a plain long integer as the foreign key from the data table. That will let you keep the second table sequential, while not having to worry about duplicates..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Using Autonumber for surrogate primary keys, I often need to manage custom autonumbering for alternate unique keys, e.g. for order numbers. I know this subject has been discussed several times before, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archive. How do you manage custom autonumbering? I do it this way, which may not be the most efficient, so I'm calling for other suggestions: 1. On the form I set the property DefaultValue at design-time for the control holding the custom autonumbering field to: =DMAX(,
) + 1 This will do in single-user environments, but will invite duplicate values in multi-user environments. So I use this run-time code in addition to the design-time DefaultValue: 2. Assuming the custom autonumbering field is called OrderNumber in a table called tblOrders: Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) Dim intOrderNumber_Default As Integer Dim intOrderNumber_RunTime As Integer If NewRecord Then intOrderNumber_Default = OrderNumber.Value intOrderNumber_Runtine = DMAX("OrderNumber","tblOrders") + 1 If intOrderNumber_Runtime <> intOrderNumber_Default Then OrderNumber.Value = intOrderNumber_Runtime MsgBox "Another user has created a new order with the number " & _ intOrderNumber_Default & vbNewline & _ "Your order has got the number " & intOrderNumber_Runtime End If End If End Sub Do you think this solution has any pitfalls, or do you just have another more efficient/intelligent custom autonumbering? Asger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 26 06:59:54 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:59:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 on Windows 7 Message-ID: Hi all Drew had (have) some problems running A97 on Vista, so we tried to install an Access 97 runtime on Windows 7. This seems to work fine. We installed as administrator and marked the app to "run in XP". /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 21-04-2008 23:40 >>> Hi Drew et al Here is one source with a good explanation: http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html But don't give up! Alex Dybenko comes to rescue (again): http://accessblog.net/2007/06/access-97-on-vista.html Seems to be a font issue (again, remember the hatten.ttf trouble?). /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 21-04-2008 17:30 >>> My new laptop came with Vista. Looked nice. Ran fine. Tried to install Office 97 (I currently run 97 and 2003 on all of my development systems). Wouldn't install. Yes, I could use VPC to run 97 when I need it, but I prefer my OS to be able to run the software I CURRENTLY use natively. So after that error installing Office 97 (and a quick google search verifying that Office 97 wouldn't install on Vista) and my laptop had XP on it faster then you could say 'Microsoft screwed the pooch with Vista'. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to Access 2007 - Here we go... (Resending...) William, I have to say I used to agree with you. I finally broke down and installed it on my DELL M90 and I am starting to like it. Of course I did break down and go back to the classic style menus, but the performance is actually very good, and I love the full disk encryption. I certainly wouldn't go with any of the entry level Vista packages though. From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 08:25:41 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:25:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: Message-ID: <283C729330624697AFCB8B0682C93EAA@SusanOne> > Hi Susan > >> no clue what the problem is. > > Problem is that some inexperienced student programmed this. > Page one in "GUI basics" states that selections of radio buttons are > mutually exclusive. =======There's an option for allowing users to select more than one item and I've used it before and it worked. I checked last night, after Kathryn's message and that option is selected, it just isn't working. :( Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 26 08:41:39 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:41:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If the steps are coded as subs or functions then you don't have to repeat the Step code - just call the sub or function. Making the original example pretty clear. Especially if the functions or subs are titled something description and/or a few comments are inserted into the code. (Comments??!! Gasp!) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew This is a splendid example to demonstrate why _not_ to use GoTo. You have to read you simple example several times to get an idea what is may do. But only an idea. The first variant is much easier if you rewrite it properly: Step 1 If Not SomeCondition Then Step 1 End if Step 2 If Not Another Contition Then Step 2 End if Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Step 1 Step 2 Step 3 End if Step 4 This you can grasp by reading it once and you don't even need to know what the Step 1-4 are. /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 25-06-2009 00:15 >>> I am going to replace 'a bunch of code' with Step X. Which is easier to follow?: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Step 2 Else Step 1 Step 2 End if If Another Contition Then Step 3 Else Step 2 Step 3 End if If FinalCondition Then Step 4 Else Step 1 Step 2 Step 3 Step 4 End if OR Step1: Step 1 If SomeCondition Then Goto Step1 Step2: Step 2 If Not Another Condition Then Goto Step2 Step3: Step 3 If Not FinalCondition Then Goto Step1 Step4: Step 4 Which is cleaner? The first method could have you repeating code over and over, the second method has the code once, and simple (and what should be well labeled) 'jump points' to make complex 'logic' simpler. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? What's wrong with Do ... initial code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here.... If then 'else goto loop ...more code here... End If End if Loop Again, the indentation from the IF...End IF makes the code much easier to follow that a flat sequence with a series of GOTOs hidden throughout. -- Stuart -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 26 08:46:31 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:46:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <005d01c9f5fa$ed75a8b0$c860fa10$@net> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <005d01c9f5fa$ed75a8b0$c860fa10$@net> Message-ID: <3F37636065B6409B9392C2605E80F656@HAL9005> "Once I found the add-in that matches menu items to the new Ribbon, I was Okay. (0%)" - says a lot. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 "Click all that apply" but it only let's you choose one thing. So here's my choices: * I don't care for the new interface, but I'll adapt -- eventually. * Once I found the add-in that matches menu items to the new Ribbon, I was Okay. * Microsoft must hate Access developers. * Microsoft hopes to push SQL Server and .NET by destroying Access' development features. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 6:00 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > > > Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) > > Susan H. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 26 08:47:32 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 06:47:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> Message-ID: <58C202E29EFB4E58889E6993A68419BC@HAL9005> The percentages only add up to 100 even though you can select multiples. Must be some GOTOs in the code. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Susan, Is this just for fun, or can you say what the purpose of this survey is? Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:59 PM To: Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > > Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) > > Susan H. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4190 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 08:52:48 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:52:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] About the poll Message-ID: <83CA95DAACD8412A92950B8D635BADAC@SusanOne> Kathryn mentioned last night that the poll would only let her click one response. I checked in and even though the interface lets me select a multi-response item, it doesn't actually work. So, I've deleted the (Click All that Apply) part. Sorry guys. Apparently, they've reported the problem to the software company, but right now, we're stuck with single-response polls. Susan H. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 09:03:50 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:03:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] About the poll In-Reply-To: <83CA95DAACD8412A92950B8D635BADAC@SusanOne> References: <83CA95DAACD8412A92950B8D635BADAC@SusanOne> Message-ID: Radio Buttons instead of Check Boxes Max On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Kathryn mentioned last night that the poll would only let her click one > response. I checked in and even though the interface lets me select a > multi-response item, it doesn't actually work. So, I've deleted the (Click > All that Apply) part. Sorry guys. > > Apparently, they've reported the problem to the software company, but right > now, we're stuck with single-response polls. > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accma at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 26 09:41:14 2009 From: accma at sympatico.ca (accma at sympatico.ca) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:41:14 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 Message-ID: Hi everyone, I have a Access 2000 database that works fine at home (on a Access 2003 installation). Now I'm trying to use it at the office and some part works, some part keep bugging! After research I notice that my Access 2000 at work never had any updates installed. I guess it might be the source of the problem. I have Access 2000 and Office 2003 (no access) installed. When I try to apply SR1, it tells me that the update program did not locate the expected version of Microsoft Office 2000 on my computer. I guess it's probably because I have Office 2003 installed. Is there any way to update Access 2000 without having to uninstall Office 2003 ? Thanks! Annie From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jun 26 09:51:19 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:51:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9C117B5EFE0E41FE842F4A7C0E7DE6CD@HAL9005> AFAIK and IME - having multiple Offices on one machine - the updates ought to go just fine without having to uninstall A2K3. Anyway, no harm in trying I guess. Worst case you have to reinstall A2K3 but I don't think that'll happen. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of accma at sympatico.ca Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:41 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 Hi everyone, I have a Access 2000 database that works fine at home (on a Access 2003 installation). Now I'm trying to use it at the office and some part works, some part keep bugging! After research I notice that my Access 2000 at work never had any updates installed. I guess it might be the source of the problem. I have Access 2000 and Office 2003 (no access) installed. When I try to apply SR1, it tells me that the update program did not locate the expected version of Microsoft Office 2000 on my computer. I guess it's probably because I have Office 2003 installed. Is there any way to update Access 2000 without having to uninstall Office 2003 ? Thanks! Annie -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Jun 26 10:10:57 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:10:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002d01c9f670$5083e140$f18ba3c0$@spb.ru> Hi Gustav, Yes, SQL Server table can have no more than one clustered index (see links below). And "if the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row." The latter means (AFAIU feel free to correct me if you suppose I'm wrong) that if we introduce surrogate key additionally to clustered index created on natural (primary key) columns and if we also create an index on surrogate key column (to e.g. speed-up joins execution one may suppose) then clustered index will anyway be involved in sql selection operations to lookup actual data rows - and that will result in joins of large data tables using surrogate keys would run (considerably) slower than joins on tables without surrogate keys. And not even joins: if you have a surrogate Autonumber/Identity clustered primary key/index on a table (that's what we usually have most of the time currenlty?) plus a natural (compound) (unique) key/index then using where expression on the columns from the natural key/index will involve two indexes on sql execution time, and if result set is large then execution time will be bad... Well, the above doesn't yet sound clear for me therefore I'd propose to have this discussion kept here for some time to find all "pros" and contra" for this or that approach. As e.g. it's done here on "the GUIDs as primary key" subject: "Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL?" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUID Pros * Unique across every table, every database, every server * Allows easy merging of records from different databases * Allows easy distribution of databases across multiple servers * You can generate IDs anywhere, instead of having to roundtrip to the database * Most replication scenarios require GUID columns anyway GUID Cons * It is a whopping 4 times larger than the traditional 4-byte index value; this can have serious performance and storage implications if you're not careful * Cumbersome to debug (where userid='{BAE7DF4-DDF-3RG-5TY3E3RF456AS10}') * The generated GUIDs should be partially sequential for best performance... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean I expect this thread will finally come to similar "Pros" and "Cons" list - in fact that would be two lists: 1) Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Pros Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Contra 2) Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Pros Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Contra As usual the "truth should be somewhere in between" - what I wanted to achieve is to stop using surrogate keys almost "religiously" in all and every table as I do now - I think I can stop doing that now if I will use ADO.NET Entity Framework as my main data access/manipulation technology because ADO.NET Entity Framework will take care for me to "write/generate lengthy join expressions on-the-fly (under the hood)" as well as it (ADO.NET Entity Framework) will let me to not rewrite my join expressions in the case of the data model changes/reorganization. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Here are some links related to the subject of this thread: --- The ADO.NET Entity Framework Overview http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa697427(VS.80).aspx --- Table and Index Organization http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189051.aspx Tables and Index Data Structures Architecture http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms180978.aspx Logical and Physical Operators Reference http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms191158.aspx -- Clustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177443.aspx "If the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row. " Nonclustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177484.aspx Heap Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188270.aspx SQL Statement Processing http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190623.aspx --- Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql --- Should a Composite Primary Key be clustered in SQL Server? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/389348/should-a-composite-primary-key-be- clustered-in-sql-server What happens when I drop a clustered primary key in SQL 2005 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/705504/what-happens-when-i-drop-a-cluster ed-primary-key-in-sql-2005 Where to place a primary key http://stackoverflow.com/questions/575450/where-to-place-a-primary-key What is the optimal indexing strategy for a relation table? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/851908/what-is-the-optimal-indexing-strat egy-for-a-relation-table ---- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil and John Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a farewell to the surrogate key. How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the house. /gustav <<< snip >>> From accma at sympatico.ca Fri Jun 26 10:54:05 2009 From: accma at sympatico.ca (accma at sympatico.ca) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:54:05 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 SOLVED In-Reply-To: <9C117B5EFE0E41FE842F4A7C0E7DE6CD@HAL9005> References: <9C117B5EFE0E41FE842F4A7C0E7DE6CD@HAL9005> Message-ID: I solved the problem... I'm so used to working in english that I did not notice that Access was in french! I downloaded the update in french and all works great! Thanks! Annie > From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:51:19 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 > > AFAIK and IME - having multiple Offices on one machine - the updates ought > to go just fine without having to uninstall A2K3. Anyway, no harm in trying > I guess. Worst case you have to reinstall A2K3 but I don't think that'll > happen. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > accma at sympatico.ca > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:41 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I have a Access 2000 database that works fine at home (on a Access 2003 > installation). > > > > Now I'm trying to use it at the office and some part works, some part keep > bugging! After research I notice that my Access 2000 at work never had any > updates installed. I guess it might be the source of the problem. I have > Access 2000 and Office 2003 (no access) installed. When I try to apply SR1, > it tells me that the update program did not locate the expected version of > Microsoft Office 2000 on my computer. I guess it's probably because I have > Office 2003 installed. > > > > Is there any way to update Access 2000 without having to uninstall Office > 2003 ? > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Annie > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 26 10:56:03 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:56:03 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Message-ID: Hi Shamil Yes, let's keep it here for a while - at least I cannot provide much more useful input as I don't have experience with SQL Server and large databases. As you mention, one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys. However, I'm not sure I'm prepared to go that far until the EF is a bit more mature. Thanks for all the links. I'll study them at a later occasion, time is too limited currently. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 26-06-2009 17:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, SQL Server table can have no more than one clustered index (see links below). And "if the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row." The latter means (AFAIU feel free to correct me if you suppose I'm wrong) that if we introduce surrogate key additionally to clustered index created on natural (primary key) columns and if we also create an index on surrogate key column (to e.g. speed-up joins execution one may suppose) then clustered index will anyway be involved in sql selection operations to lookup actual data rows - and that will result in joins of large data tables using surrogate keys would run (considerably) slower than joins on tables without surrogate keys. And not even joins: if you have a surrogate Autonumber/Identity clustered primary key/index on a table (that's what we usually have most of the time currenlty?) plus a natural (compound) (unique) key/index then using where expression on the columns from the natural key/index will involve two indexes on sql execution time, and if result set is large then execution time will be bad... Well, the above doesn't yet sound clear for me therefore I'd propose to have this discussion kept here for some time to find all "pros" and contra" for this or that approach. As e.g. it's done here on "the GUIDs as primary key" subject: "Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL?" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-primary-keys-in-ms-sql <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUID Pros * Unique across every table, every database, every server * Allows easy merging of records from different databases * Allows easy distribution of databases across multiple servers * You can generate IDs anywhere, instead of having to roundtrip to the database * Most replication scenarios require GUID columns anyway GUID Cons * It is a whopping 4 times larger than the traditional 4-byte index value; this can have serious performance and storage implications if you're not careful * Cumbersome to debug (where userid='{BAE7DF4-DDF-3RG-5TY3E3RF456AS10}') * The generated GUIDs should be partially sequential for best performance... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean I expect this thread will finally come to similar "Pros" and "Cons" list - in fact that would be two lists: 1) Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Pros Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Contra 2) Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Pros Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Contra As usual the "truth should be somewhere in between" - what I wanted to achieve is to stop using surrogate keys almost "religiously" in all and every table as I do now - I think I can stop doing that now if I will use ADO.NET Entity Framework as my main data access/manipulation technology because ADO.NET Entity Framework will take care for me to "write/generate lengthy join expressions on-the-fly (under the hood)" as well as it (ADO.NET Entity Framework) will let me to not rewrite my join expressions in the case of the data model changes/reorganization. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Here are some links related to the subject of this thread: --- The ADO.NET Entity Framework Overview http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa697427(VS.80).aspx --- Table and Index Organization http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189051.aspx Tables and Index Data Structures Architecture http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms180978.aspx Logical and Physical Operators Reference http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms191158.aspx -- Clustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177443.aspx "If the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row. " Nonclustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177484.aspx Heap Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188270.aspx SQL Statement Processing http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190623.aspx --- Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-primary-keys-in-ms-sql --- Should a Composite Primary Key be clustered in SQL Server? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/389348/should-a-composite-primary-key-be-clustered-in-sql-server What happens when I drop a clustered primary key in SQL 2005 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/705504/what-happens-when-i-drop-a-clustered-primary-key-in-sql-2005 Where to place a primary key http://stackoverflow.com/questions/575450/where-to-place-a-primary-key What is the optimal indexing strategy for a relation table? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/851908/what-is-the-optimal-indexing-strategy-for-a-relation-table ---- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil and John Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a farewell to the surrogate key. How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the house. /gustav <<< snip >>> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 11:41:47 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:41:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <58C202E29EFB4E58889E6993A68419BC@HAL9005> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <58C202E29EFB4E58889E6993A68419BC@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4a44fa47.1818d00a.3a9f.16af@mx.google.com> Groan.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 26 June 2009 14:48 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 The percentages only add up to 100 even though you can select multiples. Must be some GOTOs in the code. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Susan, Is this just for fun, or can you say what the purpose of this survey is? Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:59 PM To: Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > > Let it out... you'll feel better. ;) > > Susan H. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4190 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 26 11:47:50 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:47:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points In-Reply-To: <002d01c9f670$5083e140$f18ba3c0$@spb.ru> References: <002d01c9f670$5083e140$f18ba3c0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4A44FBB6.2040303@colbyconsulting.com> I think it would be helpful to copy the SQL Server list on this discussion since they are the ones who know SQL Server. You are discussing this on the Access list where none of your arguments applies (at least to pure Access). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Gustav, > > Yes, SQL Server table can have no more than one clustered index (see links > below). > And "if the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, > the row locator is the clustered index key for the row." > The latter means (AFAIU feel free to correct me if you suppose I'm wrong) > that if we introduce surrogate key additionally to clustered index created > on natural (primary key) columns and if we also create an index on surrogate > key column (to e.g. speed-up joins execution one may suppose) then clustered > index will anyway be involved in sql selection operations to lookup actual > data rows - and that will result in joins of large data tables using > surrogate keys would run (considerably) slower than joins on tables without > surrogate keys. And not even joins: if you have a surrogate > Autonumber/Identity clustered primary key/index on a table (that's what we > usually have most of the time currenlty?) plus a natural (compound) (unique) > key/index then using where expression on the columns from the natural > key/index will involve two indexes on sql execution time, and if result set > is large then execution time will be bad... > > Well, the above doesn't yet sound clear for me therefore I'd propose to have > this discussion kept here for some time to find all "pros" and contra" for > this or that approach. As e.g. it's done here on "the GUIDs as primary key" > subject: > > "Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL?" > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p > rimary-keys-in-ms-sql > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > GUID Pros > * Unique across every table, every database, every server > * Allows easy merging of records from different databases > * Allows easy distribution of databases across multiple servers > * You can generate IDs anywhere, instead of having to roundtrip to the > database > * Most replication scenarios require GUID columns anyway > > GUID Cons > > * It is a whopping 4 times larger than the traditional 4-byte index value; > this can have serious performance and storage implications if you're not > careful > * Cumbersome to debug (where userid='{BAE7DF4-DDF-3RG-5TY3E3RF456AS10}') > * The generated GUIDs should be partially sequential for best performance... > > I mean I expect this thread will finally come to similar "Pros" and "Cons" > list - in fact that would be two lists: > > 1) > Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Pros > > Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Contra > > 2) > Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Pros > > Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Contra > > As usual the "truth should be somewhere in between" - what I wanted to > achieve is to stop using surrogate keys almost "religiously" in all and > every table as I do now - I think I can stop doing that now if I will use > ADO.NET Entity Framework as my main data access/manipulation technology > because ADO.NET Entity Framework will take care for me to "write/generate > lengthy join expressions on-the-fly (under the hood)" as well as it (ADO.NET > Entity Framework) will let me to not rewrite my join expressions in the case > of the data model changes/reorganization. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > P.S. Here are some links related to the subject of this thread: > > --- > The ADO.NET Entity Framework Overview > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa697427(VS.80).aspx > > --- > Table and Index Organization > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189051.aspx > > Tables and Index Data Structures Architecture > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms180978.aspx > > Logical and Physical Operators Reference > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms191158.aspx > > -- > Clustered Index Structures > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177443.aspx > > "If the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the > row locator is the clustered index key for the row. " > > > Nonclustered Index Structures > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177484.aspx > > Heap Structures > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188270.aspx > > SQL Statement Processing > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190623.aspx > > --- > Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL? > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p > rimary-keys-in-ms-sql > --- > Should a Composite Primary Key be clustered in SQL Server? > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/389348/should-a-composite-primary-key-be- > clustered-in-sql-server > > What happens when I drop a clustered primary key in SQL 2005 > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/705504/what-happens-when-i-drop-a-cluster > ed-primary-key-in-sql-2005 > > Where to place a primary key > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/575450/where-to-place-a-primary-key > > What is the optimal indexing strategy for a relation table? > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/851908/what-is-the-optimal-indexing-strat > egy-for-a-relation-table > ---- > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:40 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and > entry points > > Hi Shamil and John > > Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot > before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including > 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - > expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on > indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. > > However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a > table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the > expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well > include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a > farewell to the surrogate key. > > How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but > I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the > house. > > /gustav > > > <<< snip >>> > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jun 26 11:51:12 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:51:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering In-Reply-To: <0AE9BE0871734B78BFEB574C0586E565@AB> References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local><096FE5F2B730447AA376D6910C3E8083@AB> <0AE9BE0871734B78BFEB574C0586E565@AB> Message-ID: In a relational database, a one to one relationship should be a negligible 'overhead' situation. However, to clarify a point, if you are inserting a record into tblOrderNumbers for each record inserted into tblOrders, why not use the Autonumber in tblOrders? It too would be sequential. My suggestion was in the condition where records may be entered into tblOrders (creating an OrderID) that are not actually used, thus requiring the second table for a sequential number. I used this process in our old website's shopping cart. Each 'cart' was in a single table (for cart specific data, child data, such as parts, prices, etc, was stored in other tables, linked to the CartID). Accounting wanted a sequential 'Invoice Number'. The CartID wouldn't do, because a cart could be created, and not actually ordered. So I had a separate Invoice Number table (like tblOrderNumbers) with an AutoNumber and the CartID. That record was only created at the point that the shopping cart was successfully 'ordered'. So in your situation, if you have a form, where they are putting in information, you simply provide a button for 'Complete Order'...on that button's OnClick event, you would create the record in tblOrderNumbers. And from any other sources, use a query with that join in place, to display the OrderNumber. Keep ALL child data linked to the OrderID (making the OrderNumber a data field, not a key). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Thanks Drew. Just to make sure I get you right, is this what you are suggesting: tblOrders: tblOrderNumbers: OrderID (PK, Autonumber) OrderNumber (PK, Autonumber) Date OrderID (FK, Long integer) CustomerID etc. Then tblOrders and tblOrderNumbers would have a one-to-one relationship on OrderID, and I could fetch the sequential OrderNumber querying tblOrderNumbers. This may be viable, but it would require an insert to tblOrderNumbers for each new insert to tblOrders, and it would require joining two tables for querying orderinformation including the ordernumber. I know using DMAX imposes an overhead, but is this more expensive in terms of performance than using the two-table solution? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Drew Wutka Sendt: 26. juni 2009 07:20 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Hi Asger, what's the reasoning for just not using an Autonumber field? It looks like you do want it sequential. You can start it at any number you want, by appending the number (-1) into the table, then compacting the database, and deleting that appended record. Now, if it must be sequential, and you need to provide the ability to allow for slips, which would negate a normal Autonumber field, what I would recommend is to use two autonumber fields. One in the primary table, with the actual data. Make this the actual key too. Then, when an 'order number' is really ready to be created (so when you would run your normal code), have a second table with another Autonumber (which would be the order number), and a plain long integer as the foreign key from the data table. That will let you keep the second table sequential, while not having to worry about duplicates..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Using Autonumber for surrogate primary keys, I often need to manage custom autonumbering for alternate unique keys, e.g. for order numbers. I know this subject has been discussed several times before, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archive. How do you manage custom autonumbering? I do it this way, which may not be the most efficient, so I'm calling for other suggestions: 1. On the form I set the property DefaultValue at design-time for the control holding the custom autonumbering field to: =DMAX(,
) + 1 This will do in single-user environments, but will invite duplicate values in multi-user environments. So I use this run-time code in addition to the design-time DefaultValue: 2. Assuming the custom autonumbering field is called OrderNumber in a table called tblOrders: Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) Dim intOrderNumber_Default As Integer Dim intOrderNumber_RunTime As Integer If NewRecord Then intOrderNumber_Default = OrderNumber.Value intOrderNumber_Runtine = DMAX("OrderNumber","tblOrders") + 1 If intOrderNumber_Runtime <> intOrderNumber_Default Then OrderNumber.Value = intOrderNumber_Runtime MsgBox "Another user has created a new order with the number " & _ intOrderNumber_Default & vbNewline & _ "Your order has got the number " & intOrderNumber_Runtime End If End If End Sub Do you think this solution has any pitfalls, or do you just have another more efficient/intelligent custom autonumbering? Asger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jun 26 11:52:00 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:52:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 on Windows 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, I am now using Vista Business w/SP1, on both my laptop and my desktop. Access 97 installed on both without a glitch. (One's a 64 bit OS and the other is 32 bit.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:00 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 on Windows 7 Hi all Drew had (have) some problems running A97 on Vista, so we tried to install an Access 97 runtime on Windows 7. This seems to work fine. We installed as administrator and marked the app to "run in XP". /gustav >>> Gustav at cactus.dk 21-04-2008 23:40 >>> Hi Drew et al Here is one source with a good explanation: http://allenbrowne.com/bug-17.html But don't give up! Alex Dybenko comes to rescue (again): http://accessblog.net/2007/06/access-97-on-vista.html Seems to be a font issue (again, remember the hatten.ttf trouble?). /gustav >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 21-04-2008 17:30 >>> My new laptop came with Vista. Looked nice. Ran fine. Tried to install Office 97 (I currently run 97 and 2003 on all of my development systems). Wouldn't install. Yes, I could use VPC to run 97 when I need it, but I prefer my OS to be able to run the software I CURRENTLY use natively. So after that error installing Office 97 (and a quick google search verifying that Office 97 wouldn't install on Vista) and my laptop had XP on it faster then you could say 'Microsoft screwed the pooch with Vista'. ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Moving to Access 2007 - Here we go... (Resending...) William, I have to say I used to agree with you. I finally broke down and installed it on my DELL M90 and I am starting to like it. Of course I did break down and go back to the classic style menus, but the performance is actually very good, and I love the full disk encryption. I certainly wouldn't go with any of the entry level Vista packages though. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Jun 26 12:18:24 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:18:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003d01c9f682$1e6b9c40$5b42d4c0$@spb.ru> <<<< ... one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys... >>>> Hi Gustav, Thank you for your prompt response. I meant to let ADO.NET EF to *generate* "under the hood" join expressions/SQL data select (where) clauses based on designs made by application developer/DBA, as well as to let MS SQL Server to *choose* what indexes to use to interpret/execute SQL statements generated by ADO.NET EF given data model + indexes designed by application developer/DBA. Is it getting more clear now in what direction I wanted to "navigate"/drive? :) As you can see I'm navigating/driving with some "blind" spots on the map - the task is to investigate/"workaround"/bypass those "blind" spots and to safely reach the destination... whatever it will be the time we will say we have got reached it... As for keeping ADO.NET EF discussion here that shouldn't be an issue despite the fact that this is MS Access related list? - AFAICG ADO.NET EF could become (soon?) available to access/manipulate MS Access (and other relational and not only relational) databases provided there will be an open specification how to write ADO.NET EF Data Providers, or does this specification exist already? AFAIS there are some other ADO.NET EF Providers - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/data/dd363565.aspx - what open(?) specification did their developers use? -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil Yes, let's keep it here for a while - at least I cannot provide much more useful input as I don't have experience with SQL Server and large databases. As you mention, one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys. However, I'm not sure I'm prepared to go that far until the EF is a bit more mature. Thanks for all the links. I'll study them at a later occasion, time is too limited currently. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 26-06-2009 17:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, SQL Server table can have no more than one clustered index (see links below). And "if the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row." The latter means (AFAIU feel free to correct me if you suppose I'm wrong) that if we introduce surrogate key additionally to clustered index created on natural (primary key) columns and if we also create an index on surrogate key column (to e.g. speed-up joins execution one may suppose) then clustered index will anyway be involved in sql selection operations to lookup actual data rows - and that will result in joins of large data tables using surrogate keys would run (considerably) slower than joins on tables without surrogate keys. And not even joins: if you have a surrogate Autonumber/Identity clustered primary key/index on a table (that's what we usually have most of the time currenlty?) plus a natural (compound) (unique) key/index then using where expression on the columns from the natural key/index will involve two indexes on sql execution time, and if result set is large then execution time will be bad... Well, the above doesn't yet sound clear for me therefore I'd propose to have this discussion kept here for some time to find all "pros" and contra" for this or that approach. As e.g. it's done here on "the GUIDs as primary key" subject: "Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL?" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUID Pros * Unique across every table, every database, every server * Allows easy merging of records from different databases * Allows easy distribution of databases across multiple servers * You can generate IDs anywhere, instead of having to roundtrip to the database * Most replication scenarios require GUID columns anyway GUID Cons * It is a whopping 4 times larger than the traditional 4-byte index value; this can have serious performance and storage implications if you're not careful * Cumbersome to debug (where userid='{BAE7DF4-DDF-3RG-5TY3E3RF456AS10}') * The generated GUIDs should be partially sequential for best performance... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean I expect this thread will finally come to similar "Pros" and "Cons" list - in fact that would be two lists: 1) Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Pros Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Contra 2) Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Pros Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Contra As usual the "truth should be somewhere in between" - what I wanted to achieve is to stop using surrogate keys almost "religiously" in all and every table as I do now - I think I can stop doing that now if I will use ADO.NET Entity Framework as my main data access/manipulation technology because ADO.NET Entity Framework will take care for me to "write/generate lengthy join expressions on-the-fly (under the hood)" as well as it (ADO.NET Entity Framework) will let me to not rewrite my join expressions in the case of the data model changes/reorganization. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Here are some links related to the subject of this thread: --- The ADO.NET Entity Framework Overview http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa697427(VS.80).aspx --- Table and Index Organization http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189051.aspx Tables and Index Data Structures Architecture http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms180978.aspx Logical and Physical Operators Reference http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms191158.aspx -- Clustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177443.aspx "If the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row. " Nonclustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177484.aspx Heap Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188270.aspx SQL Statement Processing http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190623.aspx --- Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql --- Should a Composite Primary Key be clustered in SQL Server? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/389348/should-a-composite-primary-key-be- clustered-in-sql-server What happens when I drop a clustered primary key in SQL 2005 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/705504/what-happens-when-i-drop-a-cluster ed-primary-key-in-sql-2005 Where to place a primary key http://stackoverflow.com/questions/575450/where-to-place-a-primary-key What is the optimal indexing strategy for a relation table? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/851908/what-is-the-optimal-indexing-strat egy-for-a-relation-table ---- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil and John Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a farewell to the surrogate key. How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the house. /gustav <<< snip >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4192 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jun 26 11:53:49 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:53:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 SOLVED In-Reply-To: References: <9C117B5EFE0E41FE842F4A7C0E7DE6CD@HAL9005> Message-ID: The French always seem to mess things up.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of accma at sympatico.ca Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 10:54 AM To: AccessD Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 SOLVED I solved the problem... I'm so used to working in english that I did not notice that Access was in french! I downloaded the update in french and all works great! Thanks! Annie > From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:51:19 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Update SP3 for Access 2000 > > AFAIK and IME - having multiple Offices on one machine - the updates ought > to go just fine without having to uninstall A2K3. Anyway, no harm in trying > I guess. Worst case you have to reinstall A2K3 but I don't think that'll > happen. > > Rocky The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jun 26 11:58:44 2009 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:58:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And that is the core issue Rocky. I personally have not used Goto, other then in ErrorHandling, in quite some time. The last time I can remember is something similar to what Max posted, where I had a section I was skipping in 'testing/development', and I used the goto to sort of 'mass comment' out a section. With OOP, it should be very rare that you ever even have a super long single procedure function. Objects should be coded to handle a vast majority of whatever your code is trying to do. Standard Modules should only be used when it doesn't make sense to create an object to handle a task. However, my main point in debating this particular issue is that you can't possibly know every possible coding project that has or will ever exist, so to deny a tool simply because of people misusing it is just stubborn! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? If the steps are coded as subs or functions then you don't have to repeat the Step code - just call the sub or function. Making the original example pretty clear. Especially if the functions or subs are titled something description and/or a few comments are inserted into the code. (Comments??!! Gasp!) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew This is a splendid example to demonstrate why _not_ to use GoTo. You have to read you simple example several times to get an idea what is may do. But only an idea. The first variant is much easier if you rewrite it properly: Step 1 If Not SomeCondition Then Step 1 End if The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From steve at goodhall.info Fri Jun 26 12:50:45 2009 From: steve at goodhall.info (Steve Goodhall) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:50:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Message-ID: <3687.1246038645@goodhall.info> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }If you want to be strictly OOP, you could use this construct to skip code that you don't want to remove completely do exit do ' skip the rest ...unexecuted code exit do ' safeguard from eternal loop loop also, you don't really need to use goto in error code even though Access generates a bunch of it. I will follow up on that later Regards, Steve Goodhall, MSCS, PMP 248-505-5204 On Fri 26/06/09 12:58 PM , "Drew Wutka" DWUTKA at marlow.com sent: And that is the core issue Rocky. I personally have not used Goto, other then in ErrorHandling, in quite some time. The last time I can remember is something similar to what Max posted, where I had a section I was skipping in 'testing/development', and I used the goto to sort of 'mass comment' out a section. With OOP, it should be very rare that you ever even have a super long single procedure function. Objects should be coded to handle a vast majority of whatever your code is trying to do. Standard Modules should only be used when it doesn't make sense to create an object to handle a task. However, my main point in debating this particular issue is that you can't possibly know every possible coding project that has or will ever exist, so to deny a tool simply because of people misusing it is just stubborn! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [1] [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [2]] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? If the steps are coded as subs or functions then you don't have to repeat the Step code - just call the sub or function. Making the original example pretty clear. Especially if the functions or subs are titled something description and/or a few comments are inserted into the code. (Comments??!! Gasp!) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [3] [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [4]] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com [5] Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net -- PHP Instead? Hi Drew This is a splendid example to demonstrate why _not_ to use GoTo. You have to read you simple example several times to get an idea what is may do. But only an idea. The first variant is much easier if you rewrite it properly: Step 1 If Not SomeCondition Then Step 1 End if The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com [6] http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Links: ------ [1] mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [2] mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [3] mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [4] mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [5] mailto:accessd at databaseadvisors.com [6] mailto:AccessD at databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 26 15:19:46 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:19:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys andentry points References: <000c01c9f5bc$f11dd250$d35976f0$@spb.ru><4A43C6E0.3010709@colbyconsulting.com> <000e01c9f5cb$758645f0$6092d1d0$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <5E9A617BE6204E6EA776E54E22FDE8C1@jislaptopdev> ...damn! ...we haven't had a good war around here for a while now :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:30 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys andentry points > Hi John, > > Let me note that this thread is discussed in context of > > "ADO.NET Entity framework plays farewell for manual SQL coding". > > Please read this blog entry: > > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont > inues.aspx > > with Anthony Thomas comment (here is one excerpt): > > <<< > In either case, the table KEY (because it is "the" key) will be used more > frequently than most other attributes or composites for restriction on the > broadest set of available queries. As such, defining this key clustered > has > enormous benefit, and more so than the surrogate, which is typically > unknown > to the end users. >>>> > > Now, after you've got read all the above, and assuming that ADO.NET Entity > Framework is used as the main data access/manipulation technology can you > still state strongly that using natural keys instead of surrogate keys > "sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / > storage size issue."? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and > entry points > > > Farewell surrogate keys? > > I think not. > > My primary reason for surrogate keys is simply that using an ever > increasing > number of fields as the > FOREIGN KEYS down into child tables just sucks. It sucks from an > implementation perspective and it > sucks from a speed / storage size issue. > > Your data in a great great grandchild table can be dwarfed by the FK of > the > parent record. > > And try refactoring the tables when the business rules change and add a > field way up the chain to > the PK of the great-great-grandparent table. You will be rethinking > natural > keys in a hurry. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Have a look: >> >> > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont >> inues.aspx >> >> Farewell surrogate keys? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net > -- >> PHP Instead?) >> >> Hi Shamil >> >> As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one >> location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, > use >> a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been >> available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. >> >> A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space >> and > - >> random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for > sorting, >> a timestamp for example. >> For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company >> table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table >> and >> could use a normal Autonumber. >> In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the > Company >> table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location >> and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you > are >> of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. >> >> /gustav >> > <<< snip >>> > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4189 (20090625) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 26 15:25:55 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:25:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> Message-ID: "Microsoft's not listening, if that's what you're wondering." Susan ...no one hear would ever believe they were :( William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:08 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Many of the polls do help us hone the type of tips and articles. This one, > really just lets the readers vent a little -- share their own experiences > with 2007. We can glean a bit of information from it though, so it's not a > wasted effort or anything like that. > > Microsoft's not listening, if that's what you're wondering. > > Susan H. > > > >> Susan, >> >> Is this just for fun, or can you say what the purpose of this survey is? >> >> Regards > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 26 15:36:30 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:36:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] About the poll References: <83CA95DAACD8412A92950B8D635BADAC@SusanOne> Message-ID: <8DE78153690F4404822DA2C013EBE4E2@jislaptopdev> ...did you try it with checkboxes instead? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 9:52 AM To: Subject: [AccessD] About the poll > Kathryn mentioned last night that the poll would only let her click one > response. I checked in and even though the interface lets me select a > multi-response item, it doesn't actually work. So, I've deleted the (Click > All that Apply) part. Sorry guys. > > Apparently, they've reported the problem to the software company, but > right > now, we're stuck with single-response polls. > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Fri Jun 26 15:51:57 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:51:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys><29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c9f577$431765d0$ed60a27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: A.D. ...are you using A2k3? ...is the function public? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "A.D.Tejpal" Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:27 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > William, > > > It appears that the procedure / function called by CallByName() > function has to be in a class module. Could you kindly verify again > whether it works successfully for procedures / functions contained in > general modules ? > > I am getting error 438 in such a case. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Hindman > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 23:21 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > > > Arthur > > ...from my treeview menu I use either of the following in a select > statement > 'call a function from a module, "strObjectName" is from my > tblSwitchboard > CallByName modules("mdlMenuFunctions"), strObjectName, > VbMethod > > 'call a sub from the switchboard form module itself > CallByName CodeContextObject, strObjectName, VbMethod, > strObjectAddtnl > > ...hth > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Arthur Fuller" > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:04 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > > > Thanks, Mike. I vaguely recall that call and shall now write a little > > tester > > to see if it works as one might desire. > > A. > > > > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Mike Mattys > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Arthur, > >> > >> There is a CallByName function > >> I saw an example at PlanetSourceCode and a few items > >> in Google regarding its use. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jun 26 16:30:08 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:30:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] VM dead slow after Accuzip Message-ID: <4A453DE0.1000000@colbyconsulting.com> I run Accuzip (address validation software) in a VMWare virtual machine. There are two different problems I am encountering. The first is that if Accuzip is still running after the validation (and it is unless I specifically shut it down) I can copy but cannot delete the output files. Shutting down Accuzip causes the delete to work (after I copy them off of the VM). My guess is this is an issue specifically with Accuzip, not releasing a pointer to the output files or something like that. The other problem OTOH is that the copy to another machine (even if Accuzip is closed) is dog slow, the "time remaining" literally climbs up to 200 minutes and then stops even telling me how long. If I shut down the VM and restart it, I can do normal and very fast copies. Does anyone here know how to see what a bottleneck like this might be? Has anyone ever experienced extremely slow copies to/from a vm that was "fixed" by restarting the VM? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 26 16:42:16 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:42:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Message-ID: Hi Shamil I think the idea is to have both - that you via the framework can use the designer to create your database schema without touching the normal database tools, and that the framework later - by the knowledge it has about the schema - is capable of creating on the fly the SQL commands needed to have the framework do what your code requests from it. The quality of this SQL is arguable, and purists may find it clumsy, bloated and less than optimized. However, if it works I couldn't care less what it feeds to the db engine as long as I get the results via the framework I expect and get them fast. This is, of course, an area of continuous improvement. As for how the ADO.NET EF is specified, I don't know but I guess it should be easy to find out if you joined the open-source groups for either SQlite or FireBird. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 26-06-2009 19:18 >>> <<<< ... one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys... >>>> Hi Gustav, Thank you for your prompt response. I meant to let ADO.NET EF to *generate* "under the hood" join expressions/SQL data select (where) clauses based on designs made by application developer/DBA, as well as to let MS SQL Server to *choose* what indexes to use to interpret/execute SQL statements generated by ADO.NET EF given data model + indexes designed by application developer/DBA. Is it getting more clear now in what direction I wanted to "navigate"/drive? :) As you can see I'm navigating/driving with some "blind" spots on the map - the task is to investigate/"workaround"/bypass those "blind" spots and to safely reach the destination... whatever it will be the time we will say we have got reached it... As for keeping ADO.NET EF discussion here that shouldn't be an issue despite the fact that this is MS Access related list? - AFAICG ADO.NET EF could become (soon?) available to access/manipulate MS Access (and other relational and not only relational) databases provided there will be an open specification how to write ADO.NET EF Data Providers, or does this specification exist already? AFAIS there are some other ADO.NET EF Providers - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/data/dd363565.aspx - what open(?) specification did their developers use? -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil Yes, let's keep it here for a while - at least I cannot provide much more useful input as I don't have experience with SQL Server and large databases. As you mention, one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys. However, I'm not sure I'm prepared to go that far until the EF is a bit more mature. Thanks for all the links. I'll study them at a later occasion, time is too limited currently. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 26-06-2009 17:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, SQL Server table can have no more than one clustered index (see links below). And "if the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row." The latter means (AFAIU feel free to correct me if you suppose I'm wrong) that if we introduce surrogate key additionally to clustered index created on natural (primary key) columns and if we also create an index on surrogate key column (to e.g. speed-up joins execution one may suppose) then clustered index will anyway be involved in sql selection operations to lookup actual data rows - and that will result in joins of large data tables using surrogate keys would run (considerably) slower than joins on tables without surrogate keys. And not even joins: if you have a surrogate Autonumber/Identity clustered primary key/index on a table (that's what we usually have most of the time currenlty?) plus a natural (compound) (unique) key/index then using where expression on the columns from the natural key/index will involve two indexes on sql execution time, and if result set is large then execution time will be bad... Well, the above doesn't yet sound clear for me therefore I'd propose to have this discussion kept here for some time to find all "pros" and contra" for this or that approach. As e.g. it's done here on "the GUIDs as primary key" subject: "Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL?" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUID Pros * Unique across every table, every database, every server * Allows easy merging of records from different databases * Allows easy distribution of databases across multiple servers * You can generate IDs anywhere, instead of having to roundtrip to the database * Most replication scenarios require GUID columns anyway GUID Cons * It is a whopping 4 times larger than the traditional 4-byte index value; this can have serious performance and storage implications if you're not careful * Cumbersome to debug (where userid='{BAE7DF4-DDF-3RG-5TY3E3RF456AS10}') * The generated GUIDs should be partially sequential for best performance... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean I expect this thread will finally come to similar "Pros" and "Cons" list - in fact that would be two lists: 1) Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Pros Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Contra 2) Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Pros Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Contra As usual the "truth should be somewhere in between" - what I wanted to achieve is to stop using surrogate keys almost "religiously" in all and every table as I do now - I think I can stop doing that now if I will use ADO.NET Entity Framework as my main data access/manipulation technology because ADO.NET Entity Framework will take care for me to "write/generate lengthy join expressions on-the-fly (under the hood)" as well as it (ADO.NET Entity Framework) will let me to not rewrite my join expressions in the case of the data model changes/reorganization. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Here are some links related to the subject of this thread: --- The ADO.NET Entity Framework Overview http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa697427(VS.80).aspx --- Table and Index Organization http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189051.aspx Tables and Index Data Structures Architecture http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms180978.aspx Logical and Physical Operators Reference http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms191158.aspx -- Clustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177443.aspx "If the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row. " Nonclustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177484.aspx Heap Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188270.aspx SQL Statement Processing http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190623.aspx --- Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-primary-keys-in-ms-sql --- Should a Composite Primary Key be clustered in SQL Server? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/389348/should-a-composite-primary-key-be-clustered-in-sql-server What happens when I drop a clustered primary key in SQL 2005 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/705504/what-happens-when-i-drop-a-clustered-primary-key-in-sql-2005 Where to place a primary key http://stackoverflow.com/questions/575450/where-to-place-a-primary-key What is the optimal indexing strategy for a relation table? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/851908/what-is-the-optimal-indexing-strategy-for-a-relation-table ---- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil and John Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a farewell to the surrogate key. How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the house. /gustav <<< snip >>> From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Fri Jun 26 16:44:39 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:44:39 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Looping through table Fields Message-ID: <20090626214635.UWRJ16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> I tried this in the SQL list but now response. I have an SQL2000 database that we require to compare two records field by field and report back on the fields that have different values. Can someone please point me in the right direction of how to do this within a stored procedure? I know I could hard code each field but the full project has several tables with over 400 fields. I would rather lop through a fields collection to do the comparison. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Jun 26 17:02:49 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 00:02:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] VM dead slow after Accuzip Message-ID: Hi John I haven't seen this myself but some help may be found here at the bottom: http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/99609816/m/601006930931 /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 26-06-2009 23:30 >>> I run Accuzip (address validation software) in a VMWare virtual machine. There are two different problems I am encountering. The first is that if Accuzip is still running after the validation (and it is unless I specifically shut it down) I can copy but cannot delete the output files. Shutting down Accuzip causes the delete to work (after I copy them off of the VM). My guess is this is an issue specifically with Accuzip, not releasing a pointer to the output files or something like that. The other problem OTOH is that the copy to another machine (even if Accuzip is closed) is dog slow, the "time remaining" literally climbs up to 200 minutes and then stops even telling me how long. If I shut down the VM and restart it, I can do normal and very fast copies. Does anyone here know how to see what a bottleneck like this might be? Has anyone ever experienced extremely slow copies to/from a vm that was "fixed" by restarting the VM? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Jun 26 17:56:52 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:56:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary key and entry points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004c01c9f6b1$664aeb40$32e0c1c0$@spb.ru> Hi Gustav, <<< I think the idea is to have both >>> OK. I didn't plan to go that far this time :) - I mean ADO.NET EF generating relational datamodel from entities... <<< is capable of creating on the fly the SQL commands needed to have the framework do what your code requests from it. The quality of this SQL is arguable, and purists may find it clumsy, bloated and less than optimized. >>> I'd suppose that with properly *manually* designed relational datamodel in 90% of cases this generated on-the-fly by ADO.NET EF SQL would be as good as manually written and it will run well optimized by MS SQL engine - that assumption comes from experience - up to 90% of business applications' SQL is a routine work, which can be well automated... <<< This is, of course, an area of continuous improvement. >>> Yes, I'm glad this work is delegated to MS now :) <<< if you joined the open-source groups for either SQlite or FireBird. >>> OK. Thank you for the tip. Maybe I will do that in the future but currently I do not plan to write my own ADO.NET EF provider... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 1:42 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil I think the idea is to have both - that you via the framework can use the designer to create your database schema without touching the normal database tools, and that the framework later - by the knowledge it has about the schema - is capable of creating on the fly the SQL commands needed to have the framework do what your code requests from it. The quality of this SQL is arguable, and purists may find it clumsy, bloated and less than optimized. However, if it works I couldn't care less what it feeds to the db engine as long as I get the results via the framework I expect and get them fast. This is, of course, an area of continuous improvement. As for how the ADO.NET EF is specified, I don't know but I guess it should be easy to find out if you joined the open-source groups for either SQlite or FireBird. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 26-06-2009 19:18 >>> <<<< ... one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys... >>>> Hi Gustav, Thank you for your prompt response. I meant to let ADO.NET EF to *generate* "under the hood" join expressions/SQL data select (where) clauses based on designs made by application developer/DBA, as well as to let MS SQL Server to *choose* what indexes to use to interpret/execute SQL statements generated by ADO.NET EF given data model + indexes designed by application developer/DBA. Is it getting more clear now in what direction I wanted to "navigate"/drive? :) As you can see I'm navigating/driving with some "blind" spots on the map - the task is to investigate/"workaround"/bypass those "blind" spots and to safely reach the destination... whatever it will be the time we will say we have got reached it... As for keeping ADO.NET EF discussion here that shouldn't be an issue despite the fact that this is MS Access related list? - AFAICG ADO.NET EF could become (soon?) available to access/manipulate MS Access (and other relational and not only relational) databases provided there will be an open specification how to write ADO.NET EF Data Providers, or does this specification exist already? AFAIS there are some other ADO.NET EF Providers - http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/data/dd363565.aspx - what open(?) specification did their developers use? -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil Yes, let's keep it here for a while - at least I cannot provide much more useful input as I don't have experience with SQL Server and large databases. As you mention, one could choose to let the ADO.NET EF do the work and let it design the database and leave to it the decisions for building indexes and keys. However, I'm not sure I'm prepared to go that far until the EF is a bit more mature. Thanks for all the links. I'll study them at a later occasion, time is too limited currently. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 26-06-2009 17:10 >>> Hi Gustav, Yes, SQL Server table can have no more than one clustered index (see links below). And "if the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row." The latter means (AFAIU feel free to correct me if you suppose I'm wrong) that if we introduce surrogate key additionally to clustered index created on natural (primary key) columns and if we also create an index on surrogate key column (to e.g. speed-up joins execution one may suppose) then clustered index will anyway be involved in sql selection operations to lookup actual data rows - and that will result in joins of large data tables using surrogate keys would run (considerably) slower than joins on tables without surrogate keys. And not even joins: if you have a surrogate Autonumber/Identity clustered primary key/index on a table (that's what we usually have most of the time currenlty?) plus a natural (compound) (unique) key/index then using where expression on the columns from the natural key/index will involve two indexes on sql execution time, and if result set is large then execution time will be bad... Well, the above doesn't yet sound clear for me therefore I'd propose to have this discussion kept here for some time to find all "pros" and contra" for this or that approach. As e.g. it's done here on "the GUIDs as primary key" subject: "Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL?" http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< GUID Pros * Unique across every table, every database, every server * Allows easy merging of records from different databases * Allows easy distribution of databases across multiple servers * You can generate IDs anywhere, instead of having to roundtrip to the database * Most replication scenarios require GUID columns anyway GUID Cons * It is a whopping 4 times larger than the traditional 4-byte index value; this can have serious performance and storage implications if you're not careful * Cumbersome to debug (where userid='{BAE7DF4-DDF-3RG-5TY3E3RF456AS10}') * The generated GUIDs should be partially sequential for best performance... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mean I expect this thread will finally come to similar "Pros" and "Cons" list - in fact that would be two lists: 1) Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Pros Natural Primary Keys with Clustered Index and No Surrogate Keys - Contra 2) Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Pros Surrogate Primary Keys with Clustered index - Contra As usual the "truth should be somewhere in between" - what I wanted to achieve is to stop using surrogate keys almost "religiously" in all and every table as I do now - I think I can stop doing that now if I will use ADO.NET Entity Framework as my main data access/manipulation technology because ADO.NET Entity Framework will take care for me to "write/generate lengthy join expressions on-the-fly (under the hood)" as well as it (ADO.NET Entity Framework) will let me to not rewrite my join expressions in the case of the data model changes/reorganization. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. Here are some links related to the subject of this thread: --- The ADO.NET Entity Framework Overview http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa697427(VS.80).aspx --- Table and Index Organization http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms189051.aspx Tables and Index Data Structures Architecture http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms180978.aspx Logical and Physical Operators Reference http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms191158.aspx -- Clustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177443.aspx "If the table has a clustered index, or the index is on an indexed view, the row locator is the clustered index key for the row. " Nonclustered Index Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms177484.aspx Heap Structures http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms188270.aspx SQL Statement Processing http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms190623.aspx --- Is it a bad idea to use GUIDs as primary keys in MS SQL? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/537145/is-it-a-bad-idea-to-use-guids-as-p rimary-keys-in-ms-sql --- Should a Composite Primary Key be clustered in SQL Server? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/389348/should-a-composite-primary-key-be- clustered-in-sql-server What happens when I drop a clustered primary key in SQL 2005 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/705504/what-happens-when-i-drop-a-cluster ed-primary-key-in-sql-2005 Where to place a primary key http://stackoverflow.com/questions/575450/where-to-place-a-primary-key What is the optimal indexing strategy for a relation table? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/851908/what-is-the-optimal-indexing-strat egy-for-a-relation-table ---- -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and entry points Hi Shamil and John Reading these chatty fellows is a bit difficult as they refer to quite a lot before and outside the article and many versions of SQL Server including 6.5, pack it in "if"s and different scenarios, and - as I'm not a DBA - expressions unknown by me, but to me it looks more like a discussion on indexes rather than keys with zero conclusion. However - if that is true - if only one clustered index can be applied to a table then, of course, it has to be designed with great care considering the expected purpose and usage of the table and, of course, that may very well include a natural (compound) key. But I can't see why that should indicate a farewell to the surrogate key. How the ADO.NET Entity Framework handles this is really out of our hands but I guess the old rule still applies: the groundwork sets the quality of the house. /gustav <<< snip >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Jun 26 17:56:52 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 02:56:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys andentry points In-Reply-To: <5E9A617BE6204E6EA776E54E22FDE8C1@jislaptopdev> References: <000c01c9f5bc$f11dd250$d35976f0$@spb.ru><4A43C6E0.3010709@colbyconsulting.com> <000e01c9f5cb$758645f0$6092d1d0$@spb.ru> <5E9A617BE6204E6EA776E54E22FDE8C1@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <004d01c9f6b1$6790d8c0$36b28a40$@spb.ru> ...no wars/flames coming from here... guaranteed... if only you do not want to start one from there... but then you have to start firing really hard :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:20 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys andentry points ...damn! ...we haven't had a good war around here for a while now :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:30 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys andentry points > Hi John, > > Let me note that this thread is discussed in context of > > "ADO.NET Entity framework plays farewell for manual SQL coding". > > Please read this blog entry: > > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont > inues.aspx > > with Anthony Thomas comment (here is one excerpt): > > <<< > In either case, the table KEY (because it is "the" key) will be used more > frequently than most other attributes or composites for restriction on the > broadest set of available queries. As such, defining this key clustered > has > enormous benefit, and more so than the surrogate, which is typically > unknown > to the end users. >>>> > > Now, after you've got read all the above, and assuming that ADO.NET Entity > Framework is used as the main data access/manipulation technology can you > still state strongly that using natural keys instead of surrogate keys > "sucks from an implementation perspective and it sucks from a speed / > storage size issue."? > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Clustered Index Debate - Was: RE: Primary keys and > entry points > > > Farewell surrogate keys? > > I think not. > > My primary reason for surrogate keys is simply that using an ever > increasing > number of fields as the > FOREIGN KEYS down into child tables just sucks. It sucks from an > implementation perspective and it > sucks from a speed / storage size issue. > > Your data in a great great grandchild table can be dwarfed by the FK of > the > parent record. > > And try refactoring the tables when the business rules change and add a > field way up the chain to > the PK of the great-great-grandparent table. You will be rethinking > natural > keys in a hurry. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi All, >> >> Have a look: >> >> > http://www.sqlskills.com/BLOGS/KIMBERLY/post/The-Clustered-Index-Debate-Cont >> inues.aspx >> >> Farewell surrogate keys? >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Primary keys and entry points (was: Learning .Net > -- >> PHP Instead?) >> >> Hi Shamil >> >> As Jim tells, if you can't guarantee that your object will live at one >> location only and can/may be mixed with similar objects from elsewhere, > use >> a Guid to identify it. As I'm sure you know, in Access this has been >> available since A97 (or A95?) where replication was introduced. >> >> A reason to not use a Guid is ressources. It takes a little more space >> and > - >> random as it is by nature - you will most often need other keys for > sorting, >> a timestamp for example. >> For one project I mixed this. Simplified, a Guid was used for the Company >> table, while all other tables in some way related to the Company table >> and >> could use a normal Autonumber. >> In another project I (again simplified) used a compound key for the > Company >> table (or the the object identity) with one field to identify to location >> and one field with an Autonumber. If this is what you have in mind, you > are >> of course right, that the single Id autonumber must be given up. >> >> /gustav >> > <<< snip >>> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From ssharkins at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 19:03:06 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:03:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] About the poll References: <83CA95DAACD8412A92950B8D635BADAC@SusanOne> <8DE78153690F4404822DA2C013EBE4E2@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <1AA5EA83326E4168930BD58234D1B16A@SusanOne> I don't have any control over the interface -- I just enter the poll question and responses and choose a couple of options. Susan H. > ...did you try it with checkboxes instead? > From adtp at airtelmail.in Sat Jun 27 00:37:02 2009 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:07:02 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys><29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com><001d01c9f577$431765d0$ed60a27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: <007301c9f6ea$37ef0040$6a5fa27a@personald6374f> William, The test db is in Access 2000 file format running on Access 2003 installation. Converting it to Access 2003 file format does not make any difference. The called function and procedure are public. All the methods (Run, Eval and CallByName) require that the called function / procedure should be public (even if located within the module holding the calling code). Called function / procedure (public) - located in general module: (Error 438) ========================================== When public function / procedure located in a general module is called via CallByName function using the following syntax, it attracts error 438: CallByName Modules("<>"), _ "<>", VbMethod Note - The called procedure is a simple one - merely displaying a message. ========================================== Called function / procedure (public) - located in class module: (Works OK) ========================================== All the following statements are found to work smoothly: (a) Called proc is in the same form: CallByName Me, "<>", VbMethod (b) Called proc is in another form: CallByName Forms("<>"), _ "<>", VbMethod (c) Called proc is in a class: CallByName PointerToClassObject, _ "<>", VbMethod ========================================== Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: William Hindman To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 02:21 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function A.D. ...are you using A2k3? ...is the function public? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "A.D.Tejpal" Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 5:27 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > William, > > It appears that the procedure / function called by CallByName() > function has to be in a class module. Could you kindly verify again > whether it works successfully for procedures / functions contained in > general modules ? > > I am getting error 438 in such a case. > > Best wishes, > A.D. Tejpal > ------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Hindman > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 23:21 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Pseudo Pointer to a Function > > Arthur > > ...from my treeview menu I use either of the following in a select > statement > 'call a function from a module, "strObjectName" is from my > tblSwitchboard > CallByName modules("mdlMenuFunctions"), strObjectName, > VbMethod > > 'call a sub from the switchboard form module itself > CallByName CodeContextObject, strObjectName, VbMethod, > strObjectAddtnl > > ...hth > William From miscellany at mvps.org Sat Jun 27 01:02:27 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:02:27 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> Message-ID: <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> William, I would go with "most". But not "no one". I can assure you that they are listening, and I'm afraid I find the anti-Microsoft and anti-Access2007 sentiment quite distasteful. But that's just me. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "William Hindman" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:25 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > ...no one hear would ever believe they were :( > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 02:09:36 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:09:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> Message-ID: <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it has bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It is functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: a lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the interface has changed. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: 27 June 2009 07:02 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 William, I would go with "most". But not "no one". I can assure you that they are listening, and I'm afraid I find the anti-Microsoft and anti-Access2007 sentiment quite distasteful. But that's just me. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "William Hindman" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:25 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > ...no one hear would ever believe they were :( > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 03:25:56 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:25:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Looping through table Fields In-Reply-To: <20090626214635.UWRJ16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> References: <20090626214635.UWRJ16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <4a45d790.0506d00a.143d.2549@mx.google.com> David: You could try this DAO code - rough and ready but you could adapt Max Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Sub Text() Call sCheckFldContents(1, 2) End Sub Private Sub sCheckFldContents(ID1 As Long, ID2 As Long) Dim sql As String, fld As Field Dim rst1 As dao.Recordset, rst2 As dao.Recordset Set rst1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("Select * from tblWhatEver where ID=" & ID1) Set rst2 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("Select * from tblWhatEver where ID=" & ID2) ' comment out these next 2 lines the first time you run it. sql = "Drop Table tblCheckContents" CurrentDb.Execute (sql) sql = "Create Table tblCheckContents (ID1 long,ID2 long,fldName text,ID1Contents text,ID2Contents text)" CurrentDb.Execute (sql) For Each fld In rst1.Fields If rst1(fld.Name) <> rst2(fld.Name) Then ' Debug.Print fld.Name sql = "Insert into tblCheckContents (ID1,ID2,fldname,ID1Contents,ID2Contents) " & _ " values (" & ID1 & "," & ID2 & ",'" & fld.Name & "','" & rst1(fld.Name) & "','" & rst2(fld.Name) & "')" Debug.Print sql CurrentDb.Execute (sql) End If Next fld End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: 26 June 2009 22:45 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Looping through table Fields I tried this in the SQL list but now response. I have an SQL2000 database that we require to compare two records field by field and report back on the fields that have different values. Can someone please point me in the right direction of how to do this within a stored procedure? I know I could hard code each field but the full project has several tables with over 400 fields. I would rather lop through a fields collection to do the comparison. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Sat Jun 27 04:22:08 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:22:08 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Hi Max, Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that were given to us with Access 2007. I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a hunch they're getting it right. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. > > Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which > enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. > It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were > never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have > been > nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want > cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. > > What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it > has > bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some > cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It > is > functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of > end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it > "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring > to > the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > a > lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the > interface has changed. > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 04:56:45 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:56:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Message-ID: <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it at that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is common everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week course or dabbling in it now and again. I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic stuff without ever having to look at previous code. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Max, Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that were given to us with Access 2007. I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a hunch they're getting it right. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. > > Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which > enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. > It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were > never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have > been > nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want > cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. > > What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it > has > bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some > cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It > is > functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of > end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it > "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring > to > the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > a > lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the > interface has changed. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 27 06:44:30 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:44:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic stuff without ever having to look at previous code. And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code is... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it at > that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, > converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life > would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It > takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is common > everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week > course or dabbling in it now and again. > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic > stuff without ever having to look at previous code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat Jun 27 07:02:19 2009 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 14:02:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering In-Reply-To: References: <569E08FC48047F4F848850B118195FBE038621@server.BondSoftware.local><096FE5F2B730447AA376D6910C3E8083@AB><0AE9BE0871734B78BFEB574C0586E565@AB> Message-ID: <73813025C7734131844A9E73C30260E6@AB> Thanks Drew - your explanation corresponds my reading your first posting. I always use AutoNumber exclusively for surrogate primary keys, never for alternate natural keys like OrderNumber. In my opinion AutoNumber (and the equivalent in SQL Server: Identity) is designed for surrogate keys, not for natural keys. You could use AutoNumber for natural keys, but then you are inviting troubles. In Access pressing Esc on entering a new record will increment the AutoNumber, leaving gaps in the numbering. And depending on which version of Access you use, a Compact Database will reset the autonumber to the next value after your records INcluding deleted trailing records, or it will reset to the next record after your records EXcluding deleted trailing records. Bottom line: You simply can't predict the value of an AutoNumber field. This is what makes AutoNumber an excellent candidate for surrogate primary keys because this kind of keys is supposed to be meaningless. You can ignore the special behaviour of AutoNumber if you use it as a surrogate key like OrderID, but you certainly can't ignore it if you want a natural key value like OrderNumber, which is supposed to be meaningful. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Drew Wutka Sendt: 26. juni 2009 18:51 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering In a relational database, a one to one relationship should be a negligible 'overhead' situation. However, to clarify a point, if you are inserting a record into tblOrderNumbers for each record inserted into tblOrders, why not use the Autonumber in tblOrders? It too would be sequential. My suggestion was in the condition where records may be entered into tblOrders (creating an OrderID) that are not actually used, thus requiring the second table for a sequential number. I used this process in our old website's shopping cart. Each 'cart' was in a single table (for cart specific data, child data, such as parts, prices, etc, was stored in other tables, linked to the CartID). Accounting wanted a sequential 'Invoice Number'. The CartID wouldn't do, because a cart could be created, and not actually ordered. So I had a separate Invoice Number table (like tblOrderNumbers) with an AutoNumber and the CartID. That record was only created at the point that the shopping cart was successfully 'ordered'. So in your situation, if you have a form, where they are putting in information, you simply provide a button for 'Complete Order'...on that button's OnClick event, you would create the record in tblOrderNumbers. And from any other sources, use a query with that join in place, to display the OrderNumber. Keep ALL child data linked to the OrderID (making the OrderNumber a data field, not a key). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Thanks Drew. Just to make sure I get you right, is this what you are suggesting: tblOrders: tblOrderNumbers: OrderID (PK, Autonumber) OrderNumber (PK, Autonumber) Date OrderID (FK, Long integer) CustomerID etc. Then tblOrders and tblOrderNumbers would have a one-to-one relationship on OrderID, and I could fetch the sequential OrderNumber querying tblOrderNumbers. This may be viable, but it would require an insert to tblOrderNumbers for each new insert to tblOrders, and it would require joining two tables for querying orderinformation including the ordernumber. I know using DMAX imposes an overhead, but is this more expensive in terms of performance than using the two-table solution? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Drew Wutka Sendt: 26. juni 2009 07:20 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Hi Asger, what's the reasoning for just not using an Autonumber field? It looks like you do want it sequential. You can start it at any number you want, by appending the number (-1) into the table, then compacting the database, and deleting that appended record. Now, if it must be sequential, and you need to provide the ability to allow for slips, which would negate a normal Autonumber field, what I would recommend is to use two autonumber fields. One in the primary table, with the actual data. Make this the actual key too. Then, when an 'order number' is really ready to be created (so when you would run your normal code), have a second table with another Autonumber (which would be the order number), and a plain long integer as the foreign key from the data table. That will let you keep the second table sequential, while not having to worry about duplicates..... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 7:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Custom autonumbering Using Autonumber for surrogate primary keys, I often need to manage custom autonumbering for alternate unique keys, e.g. for order numbers. I know this subject has been discussed several times before, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in the archive. How do you manage custom autonumbering? I do it this way, which may not be the most efficient, so I'm calling for other suggestions: 1. On the form I set the property DefaultValue at design-time for the control holding the custom autonumbering field to: =DMAX(,
) + 1 This will do in single-user environments, but will invite duplicate values in multi-user environments. So I use this run-time code in addition to the design-time DefaultValue: 2. Assuming the custom autonumbering field is called OrderNumber in a table called tblOrders: Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) Dim intOrderNumber_Default As Integer Dim intOrderNumber_RunTime As Integer If NewRecord Then intOrderNumber_Default = OrderNumber.Value intOrderNumber_Runtine = DMAX("OrderNumber","tblOrders") + 1 If intOrderNumber_Runtime <> intOrderNumber_Default Then OrderNumber.Value = intOrderNumber_Runtime MsgBox "Another user has created a new order with the number " & _ intOrderNumber_Default & vbNewline & _ "Your order has got the number " & intOrderNumber_Runtime End If End If End Sub Do you think this solution has any pitfalls, or do you just have another more efficient/intelligent custom autonumbering? Asger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 07:19:34 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:19:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 27 June 2009 12:45 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic stuff without ever having to look at previous code. And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code is... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it at > that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, > converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life > would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It > takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is common > everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week > course or dabbling in it now and again. > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic > stuff without ever having to look at previous code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 27 07:35:28 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:35:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Message-ID: Steve ...wow ...you've bought the cake, the icing, the candles, and the serving tray ...and if MS were willing, I'm sure you'd buy the recipe as well ...in gold flaked print no less. ...the simple fact is that MS moved the 2007 Access Development Team out of the SQL Server development domain and put it under the Office development domain ...and while we all cheered wildly that Access would no longer be constrained by the SQL Server gods, the reality is that the Office gods more than made up for the old SQL Server gods ...the Ribbon being the most obvious result ...its a piece of GUI sh*t Steve and no amount of heaping praise on MS is going to cover the stench. ...despite widespread and consistent yowling within the Access development community, Access 10 gives us MORE of the Ribbon, not less ...Access is no longer a developer focused tool, nor even a developer friendly tool imnsho ...the simple fact that they gave developers no escape pod from all the Ribbon garbage proves their intent, all the apologists aside ...just look where all their development effort went in A2k7 and then look at the very long list of long standing well documented bugs that they didn't even bother to look at despite the reams of input from Access developers crying for fixes ...no, instead, they took their marching orders from the Office gods and focused on the gui and Office end-users ...MACROS for Christ's sake ...give me a break, eh. ...long timers here are well aware that I've been very MS centric over the past decades and remain so ...but Access is now at long last the "Office" user focused database it was originally promoted as way back when and serious developers are just going to have to suck it up ...otoh, MS has created a wonderful development environment in Visual Studio that is a joy to work in, truly focused on and responsive to developer needs, and very developer friendly ...A2k3 is the last Access tool I'll ever use. ...for those few of you who think the ribbon is a great thing, fine ...you be happy with it ...I'm not and MS is stone cold deaf on the subject. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Schapel" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:22 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had > in > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes > that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that > we > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions > in > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that > is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major > movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? >> Answer: >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 27 07:38:16 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:38:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> <4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Max ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your way out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:19 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > No, you are mixing me up with Susan... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 27 June 2009 12:45 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the > basic stuff without ever > having to look at previous code. > > And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code > is... > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it > at >> that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, >> converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life >> would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It >> takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is >> common >> everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week >> course or dabbling in it now and again. >> >> I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the >> basic >> stuff without ever having to look at previous code. >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel >> Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> Hi Max, >> >> Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had > in >> >> adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes > that >> were given to us with Access 2007. >> >> I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around >> Access > >> development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that > we >> >> will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at >> Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions > in >> >> order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that > is >> unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. >> >> We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major > movement >> towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make >> sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the >> fact > >> that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a >> hunch they're getting it right. >> >> Regards >> Steve >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Max Wanadoo" >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >>> >>> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >>> which >>> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the >>> World. >>> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >>> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >>> been >>> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >>> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >>> >>> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >>> has >>> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in >>> some >>> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >>> is >>> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >>> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >>> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >>> to >>> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? > Answer: >> >>> a >>> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >>> interface has changed. >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 07:50:43 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 13:50:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> <4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a46159f.1c07d00a.63e1.0490@mx.google.com> Yeah, I know what you mean.....I think I will just go and join the cast of LOST on that remote island somewhere... Off to the pub now. It is Armed Forces Day in the UK and I am hoping to meet up with some other vets. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 27 June 2009 13:38 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 Max ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your way out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:19 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > No, you are mixing me up with Susan... > > Max > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 27 June 2009 12:45 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the > basic stuff without ever > having to look at previous code. > > And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code > is... > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it > at >> that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, >> converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life >> would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It >> takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is >> common >> everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week >> course or dabbling in it now and again. >> >> I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the >> basic >> stuff without ever having to look at previous code. >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel >> Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> Hi Max, >> >> Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had > in >> >> adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes > that >> were given to us with Access 2007. >> >> I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around >> Access > >> development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that > we >> >> will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at >> Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions > in >> >> order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that > is >> unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. >> >> We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major > movement >> towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make >> sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the >> fact > >> that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a >> hunch they're getting it right. >> >> Regards >> Steve >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Max Wanadoo" >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >>> >>> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >>> which >>> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the >>> World. >>> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >>> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >>> been >>> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >>> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >>> >>> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >>> has >>> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in >>> some >>> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >>> is >>> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >>> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >>> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >>> to >>> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? > Answer: >> >>> a >>> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >>> interface has changed. >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sat Jun 27 08:26:16 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:26:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> <4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> <4a46159f.1c07d00a.63e1.0490@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <3F15BBFC9D1741E2A5BE8E895463DC15@jislaptopdev> ...have you ever considered just moving to the pub? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:50 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > Yeah, I know what you mean.....I think I will just go and join the cast of > LOST on that remote island somewhere... > > Off to the pub now. It is Armed Forces Day in the UK and I am hoping to > meet up with some other vets. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 27 June 2009 13:38 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your > way > > out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:19 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 27 June 2009 12:45 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 >> >> > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the >> basic stuff without ever >> having to look at previous code. >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> >> ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Max Wanadoo wrote: >>> Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it >> at >>> that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, >>> converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life >>> would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It >>> takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is >>> common >>> everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week >>> course or dabbling in it now and again. >>> >>> I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the >>> basic >>> stuff without ever having to look at previous code. >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel >>> Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> Hi Max, >>> >>> Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have >>> had >> in >>> >>> adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes >> that >>> were given to us with Access 2007. >>> >>> I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around >>> Access >> >>> development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope >>> that >> we >>> >>> will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at >>> Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular >>> decisions >> in >>> >>> order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that >> is >>> unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. >>> >>> We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major >> movement >>> towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make >>> sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the >>> fact >> >>> that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a >>> hunch they're getting it right. >>> >>> Regards >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Max Wanadoo" >>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >>>> >>>> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >>>> which >>>> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the >>>> World. >>>> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs >>>> were >>>> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >>>> been >>>> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >>>> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >>>> >>>> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, >>>> it >>>> has >>>> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in >>>> some >>>> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". >>>> It >>>> is >>>> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >>>> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >>>> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon >>>> bring >>>> to >>>> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? >> Answer: >>> >>>> a >>>> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >>>> interface has changed. >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 27 08:31:31 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 09:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> Well, it isn't quite that simple. Leave the menus alone (or at least provide a switch to get them back), leave the database tabs alone, THEN we developers could have slid right in and started to work learning all the new stuff. Steve, you may claim 2007 being a shiny new car full of great goodies but what you have to understand is that to the DEVELOPER... none of that shiny new crap matters. I have existing projects many years old. Every inch of screen real estate is used. The pretty toolbar is neither wanted nor needed. And yet... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on how to turn it off. Does that sound "developer friendly" to you? They completely scramble where all of the stuff is found. Developers have to work in whatever environment the client is in, which means (now) learning a completely new environment just for Access 2007. And what does all this rearrangement give THE DEVELOPER? Absolutely nothing but headaches. Does that sound developer friendly to you? Everyone on this list makes a living in some way from Microsoft and Access. I see very little Microsoft bashing here. Saying that MS is ignoring the developer community's wishes is not bashing, it is just the plain and simple truth. They are ignoring our wishes! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it at > that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, > converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life > would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It > takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is common > everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week > course or dabbling in it now and again. > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic > stuff without ever having to look at previous code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 09:36:32 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:36:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> Message-ID: Anti-Microsoft voice? Anti-Access 2007? Yes, and with good cause. Anti-MS? No, not so much, although, I think many of us are frustrated with them right now. You know, if the outcry is loud enough, even a TV network will bring back a cancelled show! Susan > William, > > I would go with "most". But not "no one". I can assure you that they are > listening, and I'm afraid I find the anti-Microsoft and anti-Access2007 > sentiment quite distasteful. But that's just me. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "William Hindman" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:25 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> ...no one hear would ever believe they were :( >> > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 09:38:57 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:38:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Message-ID: <6DE9C427018546B1933820ABD0BAC009@SusanOne> > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had > in > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes > that > were given to us with Access 2007. =======Steve, would you mind giving us a short list? I've found very little in Access 2007 that I'd tout as fantastic. I'm not arguing mind you -- I'm really interested. Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 09:44:14 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 10:44:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) Susan H. > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your > way > out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 11:07:04 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:07:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F15BBFC9D1741E2A5BE8E895463DC15@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com> <4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> <4a46159f.1c07d00a.63e1.0490@mx.google.com> <3F15BBFC9D1741E2A5BE8E895463DC15@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a4643a4.0707d00a.73ea.7ece@mx.google.com> That would mean going downstairs... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 27 June 2009 14:26 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 ...have you ever considered just moving to the pub? William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:50 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > Yeah, I know what you mean.....I think I will just go and join the cast of > LOST on that remote island somewhere... > > Off to the pub now. It is Armed Forces Day in the UK and I am hoping to > meet up with some other vets. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 27 June 2009 13:38 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your > way > > out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:19 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 27 June 2009 12:45 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 >> >> > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the >> basic stuff without ever >> having to look at previous code. >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> >> ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Max Wanadoo wrote: >>> Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it >> at >>> that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, >>> converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life >>> would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It >>> takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is >>> common >>> everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week >>> course or dabbling in it now and again. >>> >>> I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the >>> basic >>> stuff without ever having to look at previous code. >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel >>> Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> Hi Max, >>> >>> Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have >>> had >> in >>> >>> adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes >> that >>> were given to us with Access 2007. >>> >>> I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around >>> Access >> >>> development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope >>> that >> we >>> >>> will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at >>> Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular >>> decisions >> in >>> >>> order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that >> is >>> unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. >>> >>> We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major >> movement >>> towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make >>> sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the >>> fact >> >>> that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a >>> hunch they're getting it right. >>> >>> Regards >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Max Wanadoo" >>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >>>> >>>> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >>>> which >>>> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the >>>> World. >>>> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs >>>> were >>>> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >>>> been >>>> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >>>> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >>>> >>>> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, >>>> it >>>> has >>>> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in >>>> some >>>> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". >>>> It >>>> is >>>> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >>>> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >>>> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon >>>> bring >>>> to >>>> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? >> Answer: >>> >>>> a >>>> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >>>> interface has changed. >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 11:11:37 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:11:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4644b4.0702d00a.3e8c.fffffc4a@mx.google.com> Steve, Without wishing you to feel that you are at then end of a lot of diatribe, I have to say that JC does express it well and I do concur with what he is saying. ATEODY MS did not consider the developers whose livelihood depended on their products. It was all about glitter & glam. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 27 June 2009 14:32 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Well, it isn't quite that simple. Leave the menus alone (or at least provide a switch to get them back), leave the database tabs alone, THEN we developers could have slid right in and started to work learning all the new stuff. Steve, you may claim 2007 being a shiny new car full of great goodies but what you have to understand is that to the DEVELOPER... none of that shiny new crap matters. I have existing projects many years old. Every inch of screen real estate is used. The pretty toolbar is neither wanted nor needed. And yet... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on how to turn it off. Does that sound "developer friendly" to you? They completely scramble where all of the stuff is found. Developers have to work in whatever environment the client is in, which means (now) learning a completely new environment just for Access 2007. And what does all this rearrangement give THE DEVELOPER? Absolutely nothing but headaches. Does that sound developer friendly to you? Everyone on this list makes a living in some way from Microsoft and Access. I see very little Microsoft bashing here. Saying that MS is ignoring the developer community's wishes is not bashing, it is just the plain and simple truth. They are ignoring our wishes! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it at > that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, > converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life > would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It > takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is common > everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week > course or dabbling in it now and again. > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic > stuff without ever having to look at previous code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 11:13:38 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:13:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a46452c.0a1ad00a.6c6a.fffffeda@mx.google.com> LOL... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 27 June 2009 15:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) Susan H. > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your > way > out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sat Jun 27 11:23:58 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:23:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a464799.0506d00a.1424.ffff97d5@mx.google.com> Huh....and I thought i was brave.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 27 June 2009 15:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) Susan H. > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find your > way > out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Sat Jun 27 17:29:28 2009 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:29:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007-comment on results In-Reply-To: <58C202E29EFB4E58889E6993A68419BC@HAL9005> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <58C202E29EFB4E58889E6993A68419BC@HAL9005> Message-ID: <001701c9f776$bc4e9d00$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> 1% = Microsoft missed the mark HUGELY. IOW : Access 2007 = Vista Bottomline: Dead for now. If not fixed soon: deadware. RE: Once I found the add-in that matches menu items to the new Ribbon, I was Okay. (1%) From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jun 27 21:19:47 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 19:19:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <43A236E305054E89A0BA69BF4FD8FC36@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John and William Much of what you say rings very true. The most annoying thing is that Microsoft has decided that one of their old battle tried products will be shipped off to obscurity and exist as little more than a power-user toy in their office suite. MS does not understand the complex inter-relationship between her free-lance developers and her office group. One of their main office proponents has always been the developer community. We are the people who suggest various companies buy the full Office Business/Professional package and then we would design complex applications tailored to their exact needs, using Access as a FE. If Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving us into their .Net world there will be no reason for us support Office. There is growing selection of excellent open-source or web based alternatives available. A couple small companies that I am working with had wondered if they should buy the next MS Office upgrade. As times are real tight and as their consultant, I suggested that they try an Open Source alternative, after all it is free, all the files, other MS Access are fully compatible and if they really do not like what they are working with, they can just go back, bite-the-bullet, with no loss. In the interim, I will develop a web-based database system for them. One company for sure is going to stick with Open Office and the other is still debating. I have no way to know if this is a trend or just economics but I feel it is. I will go one step further in stating that the main reason Windows has remained a dominate OS is because of its office suite. For most businesses, Office is the only Desktop Windows product they all use. Linux distros are getting better with each release and if Microsoft's flag ship starts going down there are some very fine challengers waiting for their opportunity. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Well, it isn't quite that simple. Leave the menus alone (or at least provide a switch to get them back), leave the database tabs alone, THEN we developers could have slid right in and started to work learning all the new stuff. Steve, you may claim 2007 being a shiny new car full of great goodies but what you have to understand is that to the DEVELOPER... none of that shiny new crap matters. I have existing projects many years old. Every inch of screen real estate is used. The pretty toolbar is neither wanted nor needed. And yet... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on how to turn it off. Does that sound "developer friendly" to you? They completely scramble where all of the stuff is found. Developers have to work in whatever environment the client is in, which means (now) learning a completely new environment just for Access 2007. And what does all this rearrangement give THE DEVELOPER? Absolutely nothing but headaches. Does that sound developer friendly to you? Everyone on this list makes a living in some way from Microsoft and Access. I see very little Microsoft bashing here. Saying that MS is ignoring the developer community's wishes is not bashing, it is just the plain and simple truth. They are ignoring our wishes! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left it at > that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they needed, > converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces and life > would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it upon us. It > takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only comes if it is common > everyday frequent use. You cannot become proficient by doing a 2-3 week > course or dabbling in it now and again. > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the basic > stuff without ever having to look at previous code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sat Jun 27 21:15:41 2009 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:15:41 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Looping through table Fields In-Reply-To: <4a45d790.0506d00a.143d.2549@mx.google.com> References: <20090626214635.UWRJ16342.mta01.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> <4a45d790.0506d00a.143d.2549@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <20090628022010.CEZH11383.mta03.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Thanks Max, I already have ADO code that I use for the Access version of the programme, but the SQL version requires to be run in a stored procedure. Eric has given me some SQL equivalent to look at. Regards David At 27/06/2009, you wrote: >David: >You could try this DAO code - rough and ready but you could adapt > >Max > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit > > >Private Sub Text() > Call sCheckFldContents(1, 2) >End Sub > >Private Sub sCheckFldContents(ID1 As Long, ID2 As Long) > Dim sql As String, fld As Field > Dim rst1 As dao.Recordset, rst2 As dao.Recordset > > Set rst1 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("Select * from tblWhatEver where ID=" >& ID1) > Set rst2 = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset("Select * from tblWhatEver where ID=" >& ID2) > >' comment out these next 2 lines the first time you run it. > sql = "Drop Table tblCheckContents" > CurrentDb.Execute (sql) > > sql = "Create Table tblCheckContents (ID1 long,ID2 long,fldName >text,ID1Contents text,ID2Contents text)" > CurrentDb.Execute (sql) > > For Each fld In rst1.Fields > If rst1(fld.Name) <> rst2(fld.Name) Then > ' Debug.Print fld.Name > sql = "Insert into tblCheckContents >(ID1,ID2,fldname,ID1Contents,ID2Contents) " & _ > " values (" & ID1 & "," & ID2 & ",'" & fld.Name & "','" & >rst1(fld.Name) & "','" & rst2(fld.Name) & "')" > Debug.Print sql > CurrentDb.Execute (sql) > End If > Next fld > >End Sub > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson >Sent: 26 June 2009 22:45 >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Looping through table Fields > >I tried this in the SQL list but now response. > >I have an SQL2000 database that we require to compare two records >field by field and report back on the fields that have different values. > >Can someone please point me in the right direction of how to do this >within a stored procedure? > >I know I could hard code each field but the full project has several >tables with over 400 fields. I would rather lop through a fields >collection to do the comparison. > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >Wellington, New Zealand From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jun 27 22:09:38 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:09:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server Message-ID: <4A46DEF2.9000205@colbyconsulting.com> I finally got around to fixing the issue I was having running multiple VMs on my Windows 2003 X64 servers, now running 16 gigs of ram. The first problem I was having which was a real b****to solve was that the VMs simply would not connect to the network. It turns out that I had Hamachi installed on the server. Apparently what happens is that hamachi installs a new NIC and all that stuff and now when the VMs fire up they grab the Hamachi NIC instead of the physical NIC. As soon as I uninstalled Hamachi that problem went away. BTW I have been googling this problem for MONTHS and finally found this tip as the very last post in one of the threads about VMs not connecting. So... I now have four VMs running, each VM with three gigs of ram. I run a specific software package which does address validation. A couple of weeks ago I bought a new Vertex Solid State Disk: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393 I create four partitions on that and then assign one of the partitions to each virtual machine. I then copy all of the database files that Accuzip uses for the address processing. These files are read-only BTW. I used to use an iRam (hardware) RAM disk with 4 gigs total, and do the same thing, partition it into four 1 gb partitions and give each VM a partition. That worked for one VM but the performance was awful for any more than that. The iRam has a total bandwidth of about 125 gbytes / sec (it was SATA I) and it just wasn't up to the job. Just as a benchmark, I was getting about 1 million records / hour running on a raid 6 disk array, so even the iRam was a big improvement, at least for one instance. At any rate, I would get about 2.5 million records / hour processing in my one VM using the iRam. Using the new SSD I get about 4.1 million records per hour, and I am getting that in FOUR virtual machines running simultaneously! I upgraded one of my servers to the new AMD Phenom II X4: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 And on that machine, running only one VM (and using that SSD) I achieved about 6.4 million records / hour. That processor is about 40% faster so it makes sense that I would get a much higher records / hour. I am going to order a new processor for the server that I am setting up as my VM server and see if I can jack the four VMS up to something close to that rate as well. 'Twould be nice if that happens! I originally had SQL Server running on this machine and had assigned 7 gigs to it. With four VMs trying to use 3 gigs each, performance on the VMs slowed to worse than a crawl. Once I remembered that SQL Server was there, I stopped the service, stopped all of the VMs, closed the VM host software, reopened the host and reopened all of the VMS and the performance is stellar. The thing to understand is that I often have to validate tens of millions of records. My total processing time for a two million record chunk was about 40 minutes on the faster machine so to do 50 million records (25 files) would take most of a 24 hour day. If I can split those 25 files out over four machines I will drop the total turnaround down to a more reasonable 6 hours or so, especially if I can get the faster processor going on the VM server. I will be a happy camper. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ebarro at verizon.net Sat Jun 27 23:21:55 2009 From: ebarro at verizon.net (Eric Barro) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:21:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <43A236E305054E89A0BA69BF4FD8FC36@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <43A236E305054E89A0BA69BF4FD8FC36@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <95BD38E6205A4BC5B6C4140708BBC007@advancedinput.com> Microsoft is going to protect their investment in their cash cow -- MS Office. Which is why they are pushing Sharepoint and have made it as part of the MS Office system. Sharepoint 2010 and Office 2010 are going to be tightly integrated. Look around and you will see more and more companies jumping into and experimenting with Sharepoint. It has two flavors -- a free one called Windows Sharepoint Services and one that requires the purchase of licenses called Sharepoint Portal Server. You can do a lot with WSS but the way MS is packaging Office and Sharepoint licensing you will end up getting MS Office cheaper than if you just bought into MS Office. It's not a question of whether "if Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving us into their .Net world" as it is a question of when. .Net has been around for quite a while and while there is still some reservation in the minds of many developers, .Net is the way to go if you want to support Microsoft products. If you haven't played with Sharepoint yet you might want to take a look at it right now and understand the concepts behind it. It is a technology that integrates with Active Directory services, Windows server technology, Office interoperability, Windows Workflow Foundation, Windows Presentation Foundation with SQL server as the database that controls everything (yes, every element and item of information) and it is all web-based. It's basic concept is the list analogy. Everything is a list. Calendars, Tasks, Issues, Announcements, Links, Wikis, Document libraries. When you create any list it creates the CRUD forms for you automatically. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi John and William Much of what you say rings very true. The most annoying thing is that Microsoft has decided that one of their old battle tried products will be shipped off to obscurity and exist as little more than a power-user toy in their office suite. MS does not understand the complex inter-relationship between her free-lance developers and her office group. One of their main office proponents has always been the developer community. We are the people who suggest various companies buy the full Office Business/Professional package and then we would design complex applications tailored to their exact needs, using Access as a FE. If Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving us into their .Net world there will be no reason for us support Office. There is growing selection of excellent open-source or web based alternatives available. A couple small companies that I am working with had wondered if they should buy the next MS Office upgrade. As times are real tight and as their consultant, I suggested that they try an Open Source alternative, after all it is free, all the files, other MS Access are fully compatible and if they really do not like what they are working with, they can just go back, bite-the-bullet, with no loss. In the interim, I will develop a web-based database system for them. One company for sure is going to stick with Open Office and the other is still debating. I have no way to know if this is a trend or just economics but I feel it is. I will go one step further in stating that the main reason Windows has remained a dominate OS is because of its office suite. For most businesses, Office is the only Desktop Windows product they all use. Linux distros are getting better with each release and if Microsoft's flag ship starts going down there are some very fine challengers waiting for their opportunity. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Well, it isn't quite that simple. Leave the menus alone (or at least provide a switch to get them back), leave the database tabs alone, THEN we developers could have slid right in and started to work learning all the new stuff. Steve, you may claim 2007 being a shiny new car full of great goodies but what you have to understand is that to the DEVELOPER... none of that shiny new crap matters. I have existing projects many years old. Every inch of screen real estate is used. The pretty toolbar is neither wanted nor needed. And yet... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on how to turn it off. Does that sound "developer friendly" to you? They completely scramble where all of the stuff is found. Developers have to work in whatever environment the client is in, which means (now) learning a completely new environment just for Access 2007. And what does all this rearrangement give THE DEVELOPER? Absolutely nothing but headaches. Does that sound developer friendly to you? Everyone on this list makes a living in some way from Microsoft and Access. I see very little Microsoft bashing here. Saying that MS is ignoring the developer community's wishes is not bashing, it is just the plain and simple truth. They are ignoring our wishes! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Steve, If MS had of put a switch in there RibbonOn/RibbonOff and left > it at > that, then developers could merely have turned it off until they > needed, converted to A2007 with all their existing code and interfaces > and life would have been so happy. But what they done was FORCE it > upon us. It takes years to be proficient on new "stuff" and only > comes if it is common everyday frequent use. You cannot become > proficient by doing a 2-3 week course or dabbling in it now and again. > > I define proficient when I can sit down and write code to do all the > basic stuff without ever having to look at previous code. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Schapel > Sent: 27 June 2009 10:22 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have > had in > > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around > Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope > that we > > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team > at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular > decisions in > > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product > that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only > make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about > the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have > a hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >> which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs >> were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it >> would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for >> those who didn't want cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good >> thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, >> it has bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that >> have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the >> God "Looks". It is functionality and benefits that count and these >> are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding >> has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense. >> EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing >> a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than >> the interface has changed. >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 00:29:20 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:29:20 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <95BD38E6205A4BC5B6C4140708BBC007@advancedinput.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><43A236E305054E89A0BA69BF4FD8FC36@creativesystemdesigns.com> <95BD38E6205A4BC5B6C4140708BBC007@advancedinput.com> Message-ID: <8F86A8A96D374480B04A9C1D9AFD0D6E@stevePC> Eric, Re: "Sharepoint Portal Server" This was indeed the name of very early versions. It is now called Microsoft Office SharePoint Server. And yes, I agree with your assessment that this is very important technology. Indeed, it is the core reason for many of the changes we have seen, and will see, in Access. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Eric Barro" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Microsoft is going to protect their investment in their cash cow -- MS > Office. Which is why they are pushing Sharepoint and have made it as part > of > the MS Office system. Sharepoint 2010 and Office 2010 are going to be > tightly integrated. Look around and you will see more and more companies > jumping into and experimenting with Sharepoint. It has two flavors -- a > free > one called Windows Sharepoint Services and one that requires the purchase > of > licenses called Sharepoint Portal Server. You can do a lot with WSS but > the > way MS is packaging Office and Sharepoint licensing you will end up > getting > MS Office cheaper than if you just bought into MS Office. > > It's not a question of whether "if Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving > us into their .Net world" as it is a question of when. .Net has been > around > for quite a while and while there is still some reservation in the minds > of > many developers, .Net is the way to go if you want to support Microsoft > products. > > If you haven't played with Sharepoint yet you might want to take a look at > it right now and understand the concepts behind it. It is a technology > that > integrates with Active Directory services, Windows server technology, > Office > interoperability, Windows Workflow Foundation, Windows Presentation > Foundation with SQL server as the database that controls everything (yes, > every element and item of information) and it is all web-based. It's basic > concept is the list analogy. Everything is a list. Calendars, Tasks, > Issues, > Announcements, Links, Wikis, Document libraries. When you create any list > it > creates the CRUD forms for you automatically. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 01:08:02 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:08:02 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> John, -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM > ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on > how to turn it off. If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I think you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point of view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it off", if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what you're on about here. It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep learning curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that was the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jun 28 01:09:46 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:09:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server In-Reply-To: <4A46DEF2.9000205@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A46DEF2.9000205@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <23AD70CE5ED34197887EA8A5A9FF5BB6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Impressive John... all those nice new toys as well... I hope I do not sound too jealous. ;-) ...but there is many medium companies who do not have the hardware you do. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server I finally got around to fixing the issue I was having running multiple VMs on my Windows 2003 X64 servers, now running 16 gigs of ram. The first problem I was having which was a real b****to solve was that the VMs simply would not connect to the network. It turns out that I had Hamachi installed on the server. Apparently what happens is that hamachi installs a new NIC and all that stuff and now when the VMs fire up they grab the Hamachi NIC instead of the physical NIC. As soon as I uninstalled Hamachi that problem went away. BTW I have been googling this problem for MONTHS and finally found this tip as the very last post in one of the threads about VMs not connecting. So... I now have four VMs running, each VM with three gigs of ram. I run a specific software package which does address validation. A couple of weeks ago I bought a new Vertex Solid State Disk: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393 I create four partitions on that and then assign one of the partitions to each virtual machine. I then copy all of the database files that Accuzip uses for the address processing. These files are read-only BTW. I used to use an iRam (hardware) RAM disk with 4 gigs total, and do the same thing, partition it into four 1 gb partitions and give each VM a partition. That worked for one VM but the performance was awful for any more than that. The iRam has a total bandwidth of about 125 gbytes / sec (it was SATA I) and it just wasn't up to the job. Just as a benchmark, I was getting about 1 million records / hour running on a raid 6 disk array, so even the iRam was a big improvement, at least for one instance. At any rate, I would get about 2.5 million records / hour processing in my one VM using the iRam. Using the new SSD I get about 4.1 million records per hour, and I am getting that in FOUR virtual machines running simultaneously! I upgraded one of my servers to the new AMD Phenom II X4: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 And on that machine, running only one VM (and using that SSD) I achieved about 6.4 million records / hour. That processor is about 40% faster so it makes sense that I would get a much higher records / hour. I am going to order a new processor for the server that I am setting up as my VM server and see if I can jack the four VMS up to something close to that rate as well. 'Twould be nice if that happens! I originally had SQL Server running on this machine and had assigned 7 gigs to it. With four VMs trying to use 3 gigs each, performance on the VMs slowed to worse than a crawl. Once I remembered that SQL Server was there, I stopped the service, stopped all of the VMs, closed the VM host software, reopened the host and reopened all of the VMS and the performance is stellar. The thing to understand is that I often have to validate tens of millions of records. My total processing time for a two million record chunk was about 40 minutes on the faster machine so to do 50 million records (25 files) would take most of a 24 hour day. If I can split those 25 files out over four machines I will drop the total turnaround down to a more reasonable 6 hours or so, especially if I can get the faster processor going on the VM server. I will be a happy camper. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 01:19:11 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:19:11 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Message-ID: William, -------------------------------------------------- From: "William Hindman" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:35 AM > ... A2k3 is the last Access tool I'll ever use. I'm sorry to hear that, William. Of course, Access 2003 is now pretty out of date. I mean, soon it will be *two* versions behind. In the meantime, I know people who used to be into VB6, and FoxPro, and various other technologies that are gradually going extinct. Whereas it looks to me that Access is just reaching adolesence. What a stroke of luck that some of us hitched our wagon to the Access horse, and not one of those others. Another few weeks, and we'll start to see some more frequent public discussion of the Access 2010 technical preview. In spite of your insulting comments, I really hope you will see your way clear to re-consider. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sun Jun 28 05:26:09 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:26:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Message-ID: <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> Steve "In spite of your insulting comments" Steve ...just so we're clear here ...I find your entire thread on this insulting to those of us who make a living day in and day out with MS products ...you talk as if we're spoiled brats unable to appreciate the wondrous changes MS wrought for us with A2007 ...imnsho, you appear more interested in maintaining your mvps tag than you are in listening to those who are here daily and have been here for years working with MS Access and defending it against all comers ...if MS WAS listening ...at all ...to working developers, they'd have at least tried to fix serious bugs that have been in the system for three or more versions ...Allen Browne has had the list posted for years now and updates it frequently ...every time MS asks what we'd like to see in the next version, that list has been submitted ...over and over and over ...and what did the wondrous Access 2007 development team fix? ...they "fixed" the freakin' menu ...which was NOT broken ...at least not before they "fixed" it. ...did they fix the long standing bugs? ...yeah, right. ...and I'll lay you any odds you like the list won't be fixed in A2010 ...but the ribbon will still be there, eh ...if they call that "listening" they are in serious need of a hearing aid ...imnsho of course ...have a nice day :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Schapel" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:19 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > William, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "William Hindman" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:35 AM > >> ... A2k3 is the last Access tool I'll ever use. > > I'm sorry to hear that, William. Of course, Access 2003 is now pretty out > of date. I mean, soon it will be *two* versions behind. > > In the meantime, I know people who used to be into VB6, and FoxPro, and > various other technologies that are gradually going extinct. Whereas it > looks to me that Access is just reaching adolesence. What a stroke of > luck > that some of us hitched our wagon to the Access horse, and not one of > those > others. > > Another few weeks, and we'll start to see some more frequent public > discussion of the Access 2010 technical preview. In spite of your > insulting > comments, I really hope you will see your way clear to re-consider. > > -- > Regards > Steve > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sun Jun 28 05:28:02 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 06:28:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server References: <4A46DEF2.9000205@colbyconsulting.com> <23AD70CE5ED34197887EA8A5A9FF5BB6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <5505EBD7B8BB480F870ACB3EE6B98FD0@jislaptopdev> ...I was damn near drooling by the time I got through jc's post :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:09 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server > Impressive John... all those nice new toys as well... I hope I do not > sound > too jealous. ;-) ...but there is many medium companies who do not have the > hardware you do. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server > > I finally got around to fixing the issue I was having running multiple VMs > on my Windows 2003 X64 > servers, now running 16 gigs of ram. The first problem I was having which > was a real b****to solve > was that the VMs simply would not connect to the network. It turns out > that > I had Hamachi installed > on the server. Apparently what happens is that hamachi installs a new NIC > and all that stuff and > now when the VMs fire up they grab the Hamachi NIC instead of the physical > NIC. As soon as I > uninstalled Hamachi that problem went away. BTW I have been googling this > problem for MONTHS and > finally found this tip as the very last post in one of the threads about > VMs > not connecting. > > So... I now have four VMs running, each VM with three gigs of ram. > > I run a specific software package which does address validation. A couple > of weeks ago I bought a > new Vertex Solid State Disk: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393 > > I create four partitions on that and then assign one of the partitions to > each virtual machine. I > then copy all of the database files that Accuzip uses for the address > processing. These files are > read-only BTW. > > I used to use an iRam (hardware) RAM disk with 4 gigs total, and do the > same > thing, partition it > into four 1 gb partitions and give each VM a partition. That worked for > one > VM but the performance > was awful for any more than that. The iRam has a total bandwidth of about > 125 gbytes / sec (it was > SATA I) and it just wasn't up to the job. > > Just as a benchmark, I was getting about 1 million records / hour running > on > a raid 6 disk array, so > even the iRam was a big improvement, at least for one instance. At any > rate, I would get about 2.5 > million records / hour processing in my one VM using the iRam. Using the > new SSD I get about 4.1 > million records per hour, and I am getting that in FOUR virtual machines > running simultaneously! > > I upgraded one of my servers to the new AMD Phenom II X4: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 > > And on that machine, running only one VM (and using that SSD) I achieved > about 6.4 million records / > hour. That processor is about 40% faster so it makes sense that I would > get > a much higher records / > hour. I am going to order a new processor for the server that I am > setting > up as my VM server and > see if I can jack the four VMS up to something close to that rate as well. > 'Twould be nice if that > happens! > > I originally had SQL Server running on this machine and had assigned 7 > gigs > to it. With four VMs > trying to use 3 gigs each, performance on the VMs slowed to worse than a > crawl. Once I remembered > that SQL Server was there, I stopped the service, stopped all of the VMs, > closed the VM host > software, reopened the host and reopened all of the VMS and the > performance > is stellar. > > The thing to understand is that I often have to validate tens of millions > of > records. My total > processing time for a two million record chunk was about 40 minutes on the > faster machine so to do > 50 million records (25 files) would take most of a 24 hour day. If I can > split those 25 files out > over four machines I will drop the total turnaround down to a more > reasonable 6 hours or so, > especially if I can get the faster processor going on the VM server. > > I will be a happy camper. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kost36 at otenet.gr Sun Jun 28 08:50:24 2009 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:50:24 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Function in excel References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys><29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com><001d01c9f577$431765d0$ed60a27a@personald6374f> <007301c9f6ea$37ef0040$6a5fa27a@personald6374f> Message-ID: <00F4695E7738417CBA078FDC557A878D@kost36pc> hi all, I use the follow in excel 2007 =IF(A5="p/m";13,5;IF(A5="m/b";13;IF(A5="p/b";14;IF(A5="x/b";13;IF(A5="a";5,5;IF(OR(A5="b";A5="e";A5="z");7;7,5)))))) that works perfect but what I want to add plus in that is to return null or zero in any other case is that possible? many thank's /kostas From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Sun Jun 28 09:10:32 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:10:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Function in excel In-Reply-To: <00F4695E7738417CBA078FDC557A878D@kost36pc> References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys><29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com><001d01c9f577$431765d0$ed60a27a@personald6374f> <007301c9f6ea$37ef0040$6a5fa27a@personald6374f> <00F4695E7738417CBA078FDC557A878D@kost36pc> Message-ID: <4a4779da.0a1ad00a.6a7c.ffff922e@mx.google.com> You could try =if(IF(A5="p/m";13,5;IF(A5="m/b";13;IF(A5="p/b";14;IF(A5="x/b";13;IF(A5="a"; 5,5;IF(OR(A5="b";A5="e";A5="z");7;7,5)))))),0) Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kostas Konstantinidis Sent: 28 June 2009 14:50 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Function in excel hi all, I use the follow in excel 2007 =IF(A5="p/m";13,5;IF(A5="m/b";13;IF(A5="p/b";14;IF(A5="x/b";13;IF(A5="a";5,5 ;IF(OR(A5="b";A5="e";A5="z");7;7,5)))))) that works perfect but what I want to add plus in that is to return null or zero in any other case is that possible? many thank's /kostas -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kost36 at otenet.gr Sun Jun 28 09:37:06 2009 From: kost36 at otenet.gr (Kostas Konstantinidis) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:37:06 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Function in excel References: <29f585dd0906230824o50d32559s98c18f33cdba98a2@mail.gmail.com><1544F6E808F6440CA30AF993BC66B429@Mattys><29f585dd0906230904t1fa80d45wbe046f7a4b3c56ea@mail.gmail.com><001d01c9f577$431765d0$ed60a27a@personald6374f> <007301c9f6ea$37ef0040$6a5fa27a@personald6374f><00F4695E7738417CBA078FDC557A878D@kost36pc> <4a4779da.0a1ad00a.6a7c.ffff922e@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Max I tried the same but with one parenthesis less :-)) just to know that in Greek Office -since version 2000 and then- is using ";" instead of "," thank's a lot kostas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Max Wanadoo" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Function in excel > You could try > > =if(IF(A5="p/m";13,5;IF(A5="m/b";13;IF(A5="p/b";14;IF(A5="x/b";13;IF(A5="a"; > 5,5;IF(OR(A5="b";A5="e";A5="z");7;7,5)))))),0) > > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kostas > Konstantinidis > Sent: 28 June 2009 14:50 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Function in excel > > hi all, > I use the follow in excel 2007 > =IF(A5="p/m";13,5;IF(A5="m/b";13;IF(A5="p/b";14;IF(A5="x/b";13;IF(A5="a";5,5 > ;IF(OR(A5="b";A5="e";A5="z");7;7,5)))))) > that works perfect but what I want to add plus in that is to return null > or > > zero in any other case > is that possible? > > many thank's > /kostas > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 11:11:52 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:11:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <8F86A8A96D374480B04A9C1D9AFD0D6E@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><43A236E305054E89A0BA69BF4FD8FC36@creativesystemdesigns.com> <95BD38E6205A4BC5B6C4140708BBC007@advancedinput.com> <8F86A8A96D374480B04A9C1D9AFD0D6E@stevePC> Message-ID: <4A479648.2050106@colbyconsulting.com> Uhhh... like the tabs removed, and the menu scrambled, and the toolbar that won't go away? Hmmm... Steve you have made me a happy man just knopwing that there is indeed a good reason for the carnage. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Schapel wrote: > Eric, > > Re: "Sharepoint Portal Server" > This was indeed the name of very early versions. It is now called Microsoft > Office SharePoint Server. > > And yes, I agree with your assessment that this is very important > technology. Indeed, it is the core reason for many of the changes we have > seen, and will see, in Access. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Eric Barro" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:21 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Microsoft is going to protect their investment in their cash cow -- MS >> Office. Which is why they are pushing Sharepoint and have made it as part >> of >> the MS Office system. Sharepoint 2010 and Office 2010 are going to be >> tightly integrated. Look around and you will see more and more companies >> jumping into and experimenting with Sharepoint. It has two flavors -- a >> free >> one called Windows Sharepoint Services and one that requires the purchase >> of >> licenses called Sharepoint Portal Server. You can do a lot with WSS but >> the >> way MS is packaging Office and Sharepoint licensing you will end up >> getting >> MS Office cheaper than if you just bought into MS Office. >> >> It's not a question of whether "if Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving >> us into their .Net world" as it is a question of when. .Net has been >> around >> for quite a while and while there is still some reservation in the minds >> of >> many developers, .Net is the way to go if you want to support Microsoft >> products. >> >> If you haven't played with Sharepoint yet you might want to take a look at >> it right now and understand the concepts behind it. It is a technology >> that >> integrates with Active Directory services, Windows server technology, >> Office >> interoperability, Windows Workflow Foundation, Windows Presentation >> Foundation with SQL server as the database that controls everything (yes, >> every element and item of information) and it is all web-based. It's basic >> concept is the list analogy. Everything is a list. Calendars, Tasks, >> Issues, >> Announcements, Links, Wikis, Document libraries. When you create any list >> it >> creates the CRUD forms for you automatically. > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 11:51:04 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:51:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> Message-ID: <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> Steve, Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the weeks required to figure out how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) with the previous version? Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I earn all of the money for my house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend the time to completely relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and too bad for me. What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the accelerator as as a joystick in the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as a knee switch, the windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe not?) THAT is precisely what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of the hot keys, all of the menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized that, we programmed it to muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous "sharepoint server will make it all better" crapola, it changes. WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the POINT of moving everything around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse to allow the programmer to get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous "sharepoint will make it all better" crap! The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all the other Office applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own right. It makes sense for those apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will take a pass on commenting on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word and Excel. Well whoopty frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to turn off to get the ACTUAL APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" what 3rd normal form is and enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what a PK is, a FK is, an ADO recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I could go on and on. Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, CONSISTENT manner, and the USER hasn't a clue. Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I remember. Everything is a list and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, the ORACLE guys. Tell that to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start with Policy holder, policy, claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great great grandchild) and that is just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A DATABASE APPLICATION, that completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 TABLES, ALL OF THEM RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will magically not be needed I assume with sharepoint server? Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter makes 2007 soooooooo worthwhile that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have been telling MS about are still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a ton of magical glitz and glitter. Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the general response to this thread that I am not alone? C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for a living. And now... I have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and are refusing to move in DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is "better". My ASS! Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... OK, I am calm now... Sharepoint? Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Schapel wrote: > John, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM > >> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >> how to turn it off. > > If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I think > you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point of > view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it off", > if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what > you're on about here. > > It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce > customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep learning > curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be > justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. > > I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that was > the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 11:52:54 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:52:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server In-Reply-To: <23AD70CE5ED34197887EA8A5A9FF5BB6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4A46DEF2.9000205@colbyconsulting.com> <23AD70CE5ED34197887EA8A5A9FF5BB6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A479FE6.3060103@colbyconsulting.com> All home-built for a fairly "reasonable" price, over several years. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Impressive John... all those nice new toys as well... I hope I do not sound > too jealous. ;-) ...but there is many medium companies who do not have the > hardware you do. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server > > I finally got around to fixing the issue I was having running multiple VMs > on my Windows 2003 X64 > servers, now running 16 gigs of ram. The first problem I was having which > was a real b****to solve > was that the VMs simply would not connect to the network. It turns out that > I had Hamachi installed > on the server. Apparently what happens is that hamachi installs a new NIC > and all that stuff and > now when the VMs fire up they grab the Hamachi NIC instead of the physical > NIC. As soon as I > uninstalled Hamachi that problem went away. BTW I have been googling this > problem for MONTHS and > finally found this tip as the very last post in one of the threads about VMs > not connecting. > > So... I now have four VMs running, each VM with three gigs of ram. > > I run a specific software package which does address validation. A couple > of weeks ago I bought a > new Vertex Solid State Disk: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393 > > I create four partitions on that and then assign one of the partitions to > each virtual machine. I > then copy all of the database files that Accuzip uses for the address > processing. These files are > read-only BTW. > > I used to use an iRam (hardware) RAM disk with 4 gigs total, and do the same > thing, partition it > into four 1 gb partitions and give each VM a partition. That worked for one > VM but the performance > was awful for any more than that. The iRam has a total bandwidth of about > 125 gbytes / sec (it was > SATA I) and it just wasn't up to the job. > > Just as a benchmark, I was getting about 1 million records / hour running on > a raid 6 disk array, so > even the iRam was a big improvement, at least for one instance. At any > rate, I would get about 2.5 > million records / hour processing in my one VM using the iRam. Using the > new SSD I get about 4.1 > million records per hour, and I am getting that in FOUR virtual machines > running simultaneously! > > I upgraded one of my servers to the new AMD Phenom II X4: > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 > > And on that machine, running only one VM (and using that SSD) I achieved > about 6.4 million records / > hour. That processor is about 40% faster so it makes sense that I would get > a much higher records / > hour. I am going to order a new processor for the server that I am setting > up as my VM server and > see if I can jack the four VMS up to something close to that rate as well. > 'Twould be nice if that > happens! > > I originally had SQL Server running on this machine and had assigned 7 gigs > to it. With four VMs > trying to use 3 gigs each, performance on the VMs slowed to worse than a > crawl. Once I remembered > that SQL Server was there, I stopped the service, stopped all of the VMs, > closed the VM host > software, reopened the host and reopened all of the VMS and the performance > is stellar. > > The thing to understand is that I often have to validate tens of millions of > records. My total > processing time for a two million record chunk was about 40 minutes on the > faster machine so to do > 50 million records (25 files) would take most of a 24 hour day. If I can > split those 25 files out > over four machines I will drop the total turnaround down to a more > reasonable 6 hours or so, > especially if I can get the faster processor going on the VM server. > > I will be a happy camper. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 11:54:38 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:54:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A47A04E.2090907@colbyconsulting.com> Now William, let's not be insulting. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > Steve > > "In spite of your insulting comments" Steve > > ...just so we're clear here ...I find your entire thread on this insulting > to those of us who make a living day in and day out with MS products ...you > talk as if we're spoiled brats unable to appreciate the wondrous changes MS > wrought for us with A2007 ...imnsho, you appear more interested in > maintaining your mvps tag than you are in listening to those who are here > daily and have been here for years working with MS Access and defending it > against all comers ...if MS WAS listening ...at all ...to working > developers, they'd have at least tried to fix serious bugs that have been in > the system for three or more versions ...Allen Browne has had the list > posted for years now and updates it frequently ...every time MS asks what > we'd like to see in the next version, that list has been submitted ...over > and over and over ...and what did the wondrous Access 2007 development team > fix? > > ...they "fixed" the freakin' menu ...which was NOT broken ...at least not > before they "fixed" it. > > ...did they fix the long standing bugs? ...yeah, right. > > ...and I'll lay you any odds you like the list won't be fixed in A2010 > ...but the ribbon will still be there, eh > > ...if they call that "listening" they are in serious need of a hearing aid > ...imnsho of course > > ...have a nice day :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Steve Schapel" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:19 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> William, >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "William Hindman" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:35 AM >> >>> ... A2k3 is the last Access tool I'll ever use. >> I'm sorry to hear that, William. Of course, Access 2003 is now pretty out >> of date. I mean, soon it will be *two* versions behind. >> >> In the meantime, I know people who used to be into VB6, and FoxPro, and >> various other technologies that are gradually going extinct. Whereas it >> looks to me that Access is just reaching adolesence. What a stroke of >> luck >> that some of us hitched our wagon to the Access horse, and not one of >> those >> others. >> >> Another few weeks, and we'll start to see some more frequent public >> discussion of the Access 2010 technical preview. In spite of your >> insulting >> comments, I really hope you will see your way clear to re-consider. >> >> -- >> Regards >> Steve >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 11:56:03 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:56:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server In-Reply-To: <5505EBD7B8BB480F870ACB3EE6B98FD0@jislaptopdev> References: <4A46DEF2.9000205@colbyconsulting.com> <23AD70CE5ED34197887EA8A5A9FF5BB6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <5505EBD7B8BB480F870ACB3EE6B98FD0@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A47A0A3.5040207@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. All home-built over several years. yea, it cost a bit but my client pays me a fair bit of money to get him results, and the faster I get him the results the happier he is. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > ...I was damn near drooling by the time I got through jc's post :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:09 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server > >> Impressive John... all those nice new toys as well... I hope I do not >> sound >> too jealous. ;-) ...but there is many medium companies who do not have the >> hardware you do. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:10 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Running four VMs on Windows 2003 Server >> >> I finally got around to fixing the issue I was having running multiple VMs >> on my Windows 2003 X64 >> servers, now running 16 gigs of ram. The first problem I was having which >> was a real b****to solve >> was that the VMs simply would not connect to the network. It turns out >> that >> I had Hamachi installed >> on the server. Apparently what happens is that hamachi installs a new NIC >> and all that stuff and >> now when the VMs fire up they grab the Hamachi NIC instead of the physical >> NIC. As soon as I >> uninstalled Hamachi that problem went away. BTW I have been googling this >> problem for MONTHS and >> finally found this tip as the very last post in one of the threads about >> VMs >> not connecting. >> >> So... I now have four VMs running, each VM with three gigs of ram. >> >> I run a specific software package which does address validation. A couple >> of weeks ago I bought a >> new Vertex Solid State Disk: >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393 >> >> I create four partitions on that and then assign one of the partitions to >> each virtual machine. I >> then copy all of the database files that Accuzip uses for the address >> processing. These files are >> read-only BTW. >> >> I used to use an iRam (hardware) RAM disk with 4 gigs total, and do the >> same >> thing, partition it >> into four 1 gb partitions and give each VM a partition. That worked for >> one >> VM but the performance >> was awful for any more than that. The iRam has a total bandwidth of about >> 125 gbytes / sec (it was >> SATA I) and it just wasn't up to the job. >> >> Just as a benchmark, I was getting about 1 million records / hour running >> on >> a raid 6 disk array, so >> even the iRam was a big improvement, at least for one instance. At any >> rate, I would get about 2.5 >> million records / hour processing in my one VM using the iRam. Using the >> new SSD I get about 4.1 >> million records per hour, and I am getting that in FOUR virtual machines >> running simultaneously! >> >> I upgraded one of my servers to the new AMD Phenom II X4: >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471 >> >> And on that machine, running only one VM (and using that SSD) I achieved >> about 6.4 million records / >> hour. That processor is about 40% faster so it makes sense that I would >> get >> a much higher records / >> hour. I am going to order a new processor for the server that I am >> setting >> up as my VM server and >> see if I can jack the four VMS up to something close to that rate as well. >> 'Twould be nice if that >> happens! >> >> I originally had SQL Server running on this machine and had assigned 7 >> gigs >> to it. With four VMs >> trying to use 3 gigs each, performance on the VMs slowed to worse than a >> crawl. Once I remembered >> that SQL Server was there, I stopped the service, stopped all of the VMs, >> closed the VM host >> software, reopened the host and reopened all of the VMS and the >> performance >> is stellar. >> >> The thing to understand is that I often have to validate tens of millions >> of >> records. My total >> processing time for a two million record chunk was about 40 minutes on the >> faster machine so to do >> 50 million records (25 files) would take most of a 24 hour day. If I can >> split those 25 files out >> over four machines I will drop the total turnaround down to a more >> reasonable 6 hours or so, >> especially if I can get the faster processor going on the VM server. >> >> I will be a happy camper. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jun 28 16:59:21 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:59:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <95BD38E6205A4BC5B6C4140708BBC007@advancedinput.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <43A236E305054E89A0BA69BF4FD8FC36@creativesystemdesigns.com> <95BD38E6205A4BC5B6C4140708BBC007@advancedinput.com> Message-ID: Hi Eric: I will reply inline... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Eric Barro Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 9:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Microsoft is going to protect their investment in their cash cow -- MS Office. Which is why they are pushing Sharepoint and have made it as part of the MS Office system. Sharepoint 2010 and Office 2010 are going to be tightly integrated. Look around and you will see more and more companies jumping into and experimenting with Sharepoint. It has two flavors -- a free one called Windows Sharepoint Services and one that requires the purchase of licenses called Sharepoint Portal Server. You can do a lot with WSS but the way MS is packaging Office and Sharepoint licensing you will end up getting MS Office cheaper than if you just bought into MS Office. < SharePoint is nice but adding or enhancing MS Office's sharability does not access the root of the problem. MS Access has become the developers, start point of choice, for embarking on full Office automation. Access's capabilities for generating a comprehensive presentation interface which has now been further enhanced, by almost 20 years, of the developers community, is unmatched. > It's not a question of whether "if Microsoft ever fully succeeds in moving us into their .Net world" as it is a question of when. .Net has been around for quite a while and while there is still some reservation in the minds of many developers, .Net is the way to go if you want to support Microsoft products. < Rather than Microsoft building .Net into its Office products it has chosen to decouple the development from Office automation... and now Office development will be shunted out of the main stream and away from the developers. > If you haven't played with Sharepoint yet you might want to take a look at it right now and understand the concepts behind it. It is a technology that integrates with Active Directory services, Windows server technology, Office interoperability, Windows Workflow Foundation, Windows Presentation Foundation with SQL server as the database that controls everything (yes, every element and item of information) and it is all web-based. It's basic concept is the list analogy. Everything is a list. Calendars, Tasks, Issues, Announcements, Links, Wikis, Document libraries. When you create any list it creates the CRUD forms for you automatically. < Once you move your development work into the web the desktop and the products supported on it become irrelevant. There is no way for MS to stop that. Developers make their money by creating products. Low end and low paid IT guys make their money by cutting, pasting and dragging and dropping... There is no money in that type of design work and where there is no money, there is no developers and if there are no developers, there is no one to recommend or even supporting the product. (...and if MS believes that their phone support will fill the gaps and grow the products maybe they should be looking at Dell's declining sales and quality so they can fully grasp their destination.) OTOH Oracle, as an example, which in all truth is no better of a product than MS SQL, has generated a super loyal following of developers. Certified developers are the only ones that receive the leads and all inquiries into the product are through their developers. All designs are through recommendations from their developers. In comparison to much of the MS products they are very over-priced but they just keep making major sales. They have become the corporate standard of most 500 companies and governments. The key to the whole thing is Oracles support of their developers and they in turn have been their best salespeople. ...And as long as there is good money to be made there will be developers. In a nutshell, Microsoft's efforts to make their products simple and easy have been their biggest blunder. Like the old axiom; if you make it so simple that even an idiot can use it, only an idiot will want to use it. > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Jun 28 17:10:41 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:10:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE SAME TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by doing development work, have the same song book. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Steve, Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the weeks required to figure out how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) with the previous version? Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I earn all of the money for my house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend the time to completely relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and too bad for me. What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the accelerator as as a joystick in the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as a knee switch, the windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe not?) THAT is precisely what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of the hot keys, all of the menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized that, we programmed it to muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous "sharepoint server will make it all better" crapola, it changes. WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the POINT of moving everything around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse to allow the programmer to get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous "sharepoint will make it all better" crap! The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all the other Office applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own right. It makes sense for those apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will take a pass on commenting on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word and Excel. Well whoopty frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to turn off to get the ACTUAL APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" what 3rd normal form is and enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what a PK is, a FK is, an ADO recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I could go on and on. Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, CONSISTENT manner, and the USER hasn't a clue. Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I remember. Everything is a list and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, the ORACLE guys. Tell that to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start with Policy holder, policy, claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great great grandchild) and that is just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A DATABASE APPLICATION, that completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 TABLES, ALL OF THEM RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will magically not be needed I assume with sharepoint server? Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter makes 2007 soooooooo worthwhile that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have been telling MS about are still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a ton of magical glitz and glitter. Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the general response to this thread that I am not alone? C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for a living. And now... I have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and are refusing to move in DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is "better". My ASS! Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... OK, I am calm now... Sharepoint? Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Schapel wrote: > John, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM > >> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >> how to turn it off. > > If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I think > you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point of > view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it off", > if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what > you're on about here. > > It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce > customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep learning > curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be > justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. > > I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that was > the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Sun Jun 28 18:32:08 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:32:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the Access Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most of the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt every time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the developer promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE product by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for users ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of such silly stuff, eh ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! ...look everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office product, it does. ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t they did with Access 2007 ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and apparently no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise to fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version ...yeah, right :( ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net pool ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! ...Visual Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will be ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be dragged away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so like I said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually like developers. ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE > SAME > TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by doing > development work, have the same song book. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Steve, > > Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the weeks > required to figure out > how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) > with the previous version? > > Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I earn > all of the money for my > house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend > the time to completely > relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and > too > bad for me. > > What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the > accelerator as as a joystick in > the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as a > knee switch, the > windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe > not?) THAT is precisely > what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. > > The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of > the hot keys, all of the > menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized that, > we programmed it to > muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous > "sharepoint > server will make it all > better" crapola, it changes. > > WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the > POINT > of moving everything > around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse to > allow the programmer to > get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous > "sharepoint will make it all > better" crap! > > The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all > the > other Office > applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own right. > It makes sense for those > apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will > take a pass on commenting > on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word and > Excel. Well whoopty > frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to > turn > off to get the ACTUAL > APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! > > But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" what > 3rd normal form is and > enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what a > PK is, a FK is, an ADO > recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I > could go on and on. > Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, CONSISTENT > manner, and the USER > hasn't a clue. > > Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I > remember. > Everything is a list > and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, > the > ORACLE guys. Tell that > to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. > > For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start > with > Policy holder, policy, > claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great > great > grandchild) and that is > just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A > DATABASE APPLICATION, that > completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 > TABLES, ALL OF THEM > RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will > magically not be needed I assume > with sharepoint server? > > Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter makes > 2007 soooooooo worthwhile > that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have > been telling MS about are > still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a > ton > of magical glitz and > glitter. > > Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the > general response to this > thread that I am not alone? > > C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for a > living. And now... I > have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and are > refusing to move in > DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is > "better". > > My ASS! > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > OK, I am calm now... > > Sharepoint? > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Steve Schapel wrote: >> John, >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >> >>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >>> how to turn it off. >> >> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >> think > >> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >> of > >> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it > off", >> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what >> you're on about here. >> >> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep > learning >> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >> >> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >> was > >> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Sun Jun 28 18:43:46 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:43:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Hi Steve, It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Max, Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that were given to us with Access 2007. I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a hunch they're getting it right. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. > > Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which > enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. > It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were > never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have > been > nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want > cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. > > What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it > has > bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some > cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It > is > functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of > end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it > "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring > to > the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > a > lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the > interface has changed. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From dwaters at usinternet.com Sun Jun 28 19:05:19 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:05:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access 2007) In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> William, I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS 2008 a tool that developers will like. But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to pay you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could sure use some pointers! Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the Access Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most of the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt every time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the developer promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE product by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for users ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of such silly stuff, eh ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! ...look everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office product, it does. ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t they did with Access 2007 ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and apparently no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise to fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version ...yeah, right :( ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net pool ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! ...Visual Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will be ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be dragged away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so like I said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually like developers. ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE > SAME > TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by doing > development work, have the same song book. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Steve, > > Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the weeks > required to figure out > how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) > with the previous version? > > Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I earn > all of the money for my > house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend > the time to completely > relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and > too > bad for me. > > What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the > accelerator as as a joystick in > the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as a > knee switch, the > windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe > not?) THAT is precisely > what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. > > The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of > the hot keys, all of the > menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized that, > we programmed it to > muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous > "sharepoint > server will make it all > better" crapola, it changes. > > WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the > POINT > of moving everything > around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse to > allow the programmer to > get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous > "sharepoint will make it all > better" crap! > > The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all > the > other Office > applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own right. > It makes sense for those > apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will > take a pass on commenting > on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word and > Excel. Well whoopty > frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to > turn > off to get the ACTUAL > APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! > > But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" what > 3rd normal form is and > enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what a > PK is, a FK is, an ADO > recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I > could go on and on. > Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, CONSISTENT > manner, and the USER > hasn't a clue. > > Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I > remember. > Everything is a list > and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, > the > ORACLE guys. Tell that > to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. > > For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start > with > Policy holder, policy, > claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great > great > grandchild) and that is > just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A > DATABASE APPLICATION, that > completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 > TABLES, ALL OF THEM > RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will > magically not be needed I assume > with sharepoint server? > > Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter makes > 2007 soooooooo worthwhile > that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have > been telling MS about are > still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a > ton > of magical glitz and > glitter. > > Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the > general response to this > thread that I am not alone? > > C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for a > living. And now... I > have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and are > refusing to move in > DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is > "better". > > My ASS! > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > OK, I am calm now... > > Sharepoint? > > Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Steve Schapel wrote: >> John, >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >> >>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >>> how to turn it off. >> >> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >> think > >> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >> of > >> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it > off", >> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what >> you're on about here. >> >> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep > learning >> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >> >> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >> was > >> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 19:10:11 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:10:11 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, As usual, you are totally right. In order to continue to use Access as your development tool of choice, you need to change the way you work. There is no doubt about this. By the way, I exclusively develop Access applications for a living, and this has been the case for many years. > ... I am a sole proprietor Me too. > ... I earn all of the money for my house Me too. >... if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. Me too. > ... I do not want to spend the time to completely relearn Access... Me too. Well, I don't know about "completely" - more like about 5%. But anyway, whether I "want" to or not, I decided I'd better rise to the challenge and do it, or get left out in the cold. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Sun Jun 28 19:31:09 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:31:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> "I decided I'd better rise to the challenge and do it, or get left out in the cold." Whilst I admire your attitude, and indeed I even had the same sentiments, I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve - MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. I am largely giving up on Access and focussing on learning SQL Server, ASP.Net and C# these days. It seems my clients want more and more stuff to be web-based so they can log on anywhere and access their database. It also makes my life a lot easier to support as there is only one nice SQL Server with their databases all on it to manage, rather than dozens of pissy little Access BEs stored on individual PC's all over the place. Sure I still make most of my motza from advanced VBA work - especially in Excel, but both Excel and Access have gone from being rather elegant and useful tools for development work to far more cumbersome creatures. And VBA has been left way behind in code development terms. I do agree with John - it seems there has been far too much focus on 'style' and not enough on substance with Office 2007. I can honestly say I don't know anyone who loves office 2007 - I know a few who don't dislike it, but for most folks the improvements are not worth the (re)learning and compatibility issues. I also know a few who are really angry that stuff that used to work great before now doesn't work as expected - these folks are not happy customers of Msoft. Actually I can't help feeling that the main reason MS introduced the ribbon was to make their product look completely different from all the open source Office products that were popping up. It was getting hard to see any UI difference between Open Office and MS Office for example. Now the ribbon screams "MSoft Are Here!" like nothing else. Just my thoughts... Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, 29 June 2009 10:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi John, As usual, you are totally right. In order to continue to use Access as your development tool of choice, you need to change the way you work. There is no doubt about this. By the way, I exclusively develop Access applications for a living, and this has been the case for many years. > ... I am a sole proprietor Me too. > ... I earn all of the money for my house Me too. >... if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. Me too. > ... I do not want to spend the time to completely relearn Access... Me too. Well, I don't know about "completely" - more like about 5%. But anyway, whether I "want" to or not, I decided I'd better rise to the challenge and do it, or get left out in the cold. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 19:46:39 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:46:39 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4D9EA6F9B9F743DAB5B3E66C82F1AAC5@stevePC> William, -------------------------------------------------- From: "William Hindman" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 10:26 PM > ...imnsho, you appear more interested in > maintaining your mvps tag... Can't we disagree without the personal attacks, William? I don't know what I did to warrant that comment. I have been awarded as Microsoft Access MVP eight times, of which I am greatly proud and privileged. But I can assure you that your implications about my motives is misdirected. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Sun Jun 28 20:26:02 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:26:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: developers, developers, developers, developers! - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 20:28:00 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:28:00 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> Darryl, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Collins" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:31 PM > ... I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve. Thanks very much for your comments. As you know, we are rapidly approaching the release of the next version. Access 2007 was always going to be an interim measure, as a step moving towards new paradigms. I will have a better idea whether I'm backing the right horse after we have built some Access 2010 apps. > MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. Ever since I first started using Access in 1994, there have been vehement claims in one quarter or another that Access is dead, Microsoft is dropping Access, X and Y are better than Access, etc. I don't know about "on the edge", but really a turning point. What I think will happen is that those who abandon Access because of the new directions, will be replaced by others who embrace it and move forward with it. If you're one of those who moves to other technologies, I understand the reasons, and have no criticism, and I hope there is nothing I have said to imply otherwise. I wish you well with that. But for me, at this stage it looks like I will be sticking with Access for the long haul. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 21:18:00 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:18:00 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <4A482458.3020306@colbyconsulting.com> Darryl, Wait... you are saying that you have given it a chance then. And all of these "fantastic changes"? Are you saying that you haven't discovered them? As for here in my part of the world, I don' have ANY clients using 2007, none even CONSIDERING moving to it. Steve is correct of course, MS can and does FORCE the change simply by refusing to sell the old stuff but my clients are scrambling to find old copies of 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Darryl Collins wrote: > Hi Steve, > > It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. > > ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. > > I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? > > One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. > > So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 21:25:48 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:25:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com> >> ... I do not want to spend the time to completely relearn Access... Me too. Well, I don't know about "completely" - more like about 5%. But anyway, whether I "want" to or not, I decided I'd better rise to the challenge and do it, or get left out in the cold. Happy for ya. I decided that if MS has this attitude towards me (developers) I will move on to greener pastures. I ask you why the programmer interface has to be screwed around. I can hear the crickets... but I don't hear you (or Microsoft). Nor do I care really. This whole thing started as a comment about how MS doesn't care, isn't listening. You are a PRIME example of the truth of that statement. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Schapel wrote: > Hi John, > > As usual, you are totally right. In order to continue to use Access as your > development tool of choice, you need to change the way you work. There is > no doubt about this. > > By the way, I exclusively develop Access applications for a living, and this > has been the case for many years. > >> ... I am a sole proprietor > Me too. > >> ... I earn all of the money for my house > Me too. > >> ... if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. > Me too. > >> ... I do not want to spend the time to completely relearn Access... > Me too. Well, I don't know about "completely" - more like about 5%. But > anyway, whether I "want" to or not, I decided I'd better rise to the > challenge and do it, or get left out in the cold. > From miscellany at mvps.org Sun Jun 28 22:36:08 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:36:08 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC> John, -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:25 PM > I ask you why the programmer interface has to be screwed around. I can > hear the crickets... but I > don't hear you (or Microsoft). Obviously I am not in a position to speak for Microsoft. Regarding the reasons of the Access dev team to introduce the ribbon, you and I are in the same boat... you can surmise, and I can surmise. However, I gave my opinion 15 months ago http://blog.datamanagementsolutions.biz/2008/03/office-2007-ribbon-saga.html regarding the chances of this decision being reversed, and my opinion hasn't changed much since then. In that article, I referred to a video about the process of creating the ribbon, and that can be seen at http://msstudios.vo.llnwd.net/o21/mix08/08_WMVs/UX09.wmv so please feel free to check it out for at least part of Microsoft's answer. Of course, we could argue until we're blue in the face about Access isn't in the same category as the other Office products, and thus needs different treatment. But that wouldn't alter the fact that, as William pointed out, the ribbon will be significantly improved in Access 2010, as well as ribbon interface being included in some of the other Office products that missed out last time. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Sun Jun 28 22:39:54 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:39:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A482458.3020306@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <4A482458.3020306@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D034@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Yep, we have been trialling Office 2007 for a few months now. I think they have improved how Outlook behaves and there are some nice features there, Excel 2007 is cumbersome but is not so bad to use (usual toolbar rant excepted), but Access 2007 is just a mess IMHO. They would have been far better off fixing the bugs and leaving the UI alone. Not many folks were complaining about the UI anyway from what I could tell. Anyway... As I said before, there seems to be a drift towards using a browser based FE anyway and given I only ever use Access as a FE these days it is a bit of a moot point. I would probably be heading this way anyway. Access 2007 has just speed up the process for me. I can't help but feel they are trying to turn Excel into a sloppy database and Access into some kind of spreadsheet, at the detriment of both products. *shrug*... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 29 June 2009 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Darryl, Wait... you are saying that you have given it a chance then. And all of these "fantastic changes"? Are you saying that you haven't discovered them? As for here in my part of the world, I don' have ANY clients using 2007, none even CONSIDERING moving to it. Steve is correct of course, MS can and does FORCE the change simply by refusing to sell the old stuff but my clients are scrambling to find old copies of 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Darryl Collins wrote: > Hi Steve, > > It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. > > ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. > > I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? > > One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. > > So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms which >> enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs were >> never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it would have >> been >> nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for those who didn't want >> cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, it >> has >> bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that have, in some >> cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the God "Looks". It >> is >> functionality and benefits that count and these are beyond the scope of >> end-users - complex, behind the scene coding has to be done to make it >> "perform" in a real tough business sense. EG. What did the Ribbon bring >> to >> the table for a developer producing a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than the >> interface has changed. >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 23:19:27 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:19:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com> <303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC> Message-ID: <4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> Steve, You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how to turn it off). I care about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The needless rearrangement of the entire environment. I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop applications. Toolbars are for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to interact with an application based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in forms, they enter data IN FORMS, they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, not with ACCESS. YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the developer world at large). LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been asking my clients to FORCE their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. They have gone out and bought bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" and 15") many are 19" but their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the application more screen real estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources on a stupid toolbar which (If I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up the entire screen as it is. Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is simply irrelevant. NONE of my clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I don't care. And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like it? Because while we have been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only thing you will discuss. Not the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment that got totally screwed around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the developers are saying" attitude. THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My clients aren't asking me to do 2007 and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and I am a developer. Access 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Steve Schapel wrote: > John, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:25 PM > >> I ask you why the programmer interface has to be screwed around. I can >> hear the crickets... but I >> don't hear you (or Microsoft). > > Obviously I am not in a position to speak for Microsoft. Regarding the > reasons of the Access dev team to introduce the ribbon, you and I are in the > same boat... you can surmise, and I can surmise. However, I gave my opinion > 15 months ago > http://blog.datamanagementsolutions.biz/2008/03/office-2007-ribbon-saga.html > regarding the chances of this decision being reversed, and my opinion hasn't > changed much since then. In that article, I referred to a video about the > process of creating the ribbon, and that can be seen at > http://msstudios.vo.llnwd.net/o21/mix08/08_WMVs/UX09.wmv so please feel free > to check it out for at least part of Microsoft's answer. > > Of course, we could argue until we're blue in the face about Access isn't in > the same category as the other Office products, and thus needs different > treatment. But that wouldn't alter the fact that, as William pointed out, > the ribbon will be significantly improved in Access 2010, as well as ribbon > interface being included in some of the other Office products that missed > out last time. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jun 28 23:23:59 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:23:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D034@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <4A482458.3020306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D034@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <4A4841DF.5060706@colbyconsulting.com> And that is the sad part of this whole thing. Access was (and I stress WAS) the most RAD database APPLICATION development environment on the planet. Now it is a power toy. Luckily we have .net as a fallback position. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Darryl Collins wrote: > Yep, we have been trialling Office 2007 for a few months now. I think they have improved how Outlook behaves and there are some nice features there, Excel 2007 is cumbersome but is not so bad to use (usual toolbar rant excepted), but Access 2007 is just a mess IMHO. They would have been far better off fixing the bugs and leaving the UI alone. Not many folks were complaining about the UI anyway from what I could tell. > > Anyway... As I said before, there seems to be a drift towards using a browser based FE anyway and given I only ever use Access as a FE these days it is a bit of a moot point. I would probably be heading this way anyway. Access 2007 has just speed up the process for me. > > I can't help but feel they are trying to turn Excel into a sloppy database and Access into some kind of spreadsheet, at the detriment of both products. *shrug*... From miscellany at mvps.org Mon Jun 29 00:23:20 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:23:20 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com><303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC> <4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4CED2A3377C8445E88247D58757D40F1@stevePC> John, I am very sorry, I have obviously misunderstood you. When you said "the developer environment that got totally screwed around", I thought you were referring to the "silly friggin toolbar". As a result of which, I though you'd gone balmy kicking up such a fuss about such a little thing. So I apologise for the misunderstanding. I have seen a lot of people focus on the ribbon as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about, and I'm afraid I jumped to conclusions and lumped you in with that lot. Sorry. Now, what *do* you mean by "the developer environment"? Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:19 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve, > > You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how to > turn it off). I care > about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The > needless rearrangement of the > entire environment. > > I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop > applications. Toolbars are > for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to > interact with an application > based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in forms, > they enter data IN FORMS, > they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, not > with ACCESS. > > YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the > developer world at large). > > LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. > > My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been > asking my clients to FORCE > their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. They > have gone out and bought > bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" and > 15") many are 19" but > their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the > application more screen real > estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources on > a stupid toolbar which (If > I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up the > entire screen as it is. > > Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is > simply irrelevant. NONE of my > clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I > don't care. > > And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like it? > Because while we have > been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only > thing you will discuss. Not > the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment > that got totally screwed > around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the > developers are saying" attitude. > > THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! > > I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My clients > aren't asking me to do 2007 > and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and I > am a developer. Access > 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 03:23:29 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:23:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> Message-ID: Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) > William, > > I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice > tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS > 2008 a tool that developers will like. > > But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to > pay > you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could > sure > use some pointers! > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) > > ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the > Access > > Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which > was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most > of > the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything > would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they > could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but > never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems > ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt > every > time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through > those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. > > ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the > developer > > promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE product > by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao > engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros > ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for > users > > ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody > cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( > > ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of > such silly stuff, eh > > ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real > databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh > ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! > ...look > > everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office > product, it does. > > ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 > until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with > Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t they > did with Access 2007 > > ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will > give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and > apparently > no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise > to > fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version > ...yeah, > right :( > > ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net > pool > > ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! > ...Visual > Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will > be > > ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be > dragged > away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so like > I > > said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually > like developers. > > ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >> SAME >> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by doing >> development work, have the same song book. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> Steve, >> >> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >> weeks >> required to figure out >> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) >> with the previous version? >> >> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >> earn >> all of the money for my >> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend >> the time to completely >> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and >> too >> bad for me. >> >> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >> accelerator as as a joystick in >> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as >> a >> knee switch, the >> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe >> not?) THAT is precisely >> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >> >> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of >> the hot keys, all of the >> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >> that, >> we programmed it to >> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >> "sharepoint >> server will make it all >> better" crapola, it changes. >> >> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >> POINT >> of moving everything >> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >> to >> allow the programmer to >> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >> "sharepoint will make it all >> better" crap! >> >> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all >> the >> other Office >> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >> right. >> It makes sense for those >> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will >> take a pass on commenting >> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >> and >> Excel. Well whoopty >> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >> turn >> off to get the ACTUAL >> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >> >> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >> what >> 3rd normal form is and >> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what >> a >> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I >> could go on and on. >> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >> CONSISTENT >> manner, and the USER >> hasn't a clue. >> >> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >> remember. >> Everything is a list >> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, >> the >> ORACLE guys. Tell that >> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >> >> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >> with >> Policy holder, policy, >> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >> great >> grandchild) and that is >> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >> magically not be needed I assume >> with sharepoint server? >> >> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >> makes >> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have >> been telling MS about are >> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a >> ton >> of magical glitz and >> glitter. >> >> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >> general response to this >> thread that I am not alone? >> >> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for >> a >> living. And now... I >> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >> are >> refusing to move in >> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is >> "better". >> >> My ASS! >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> OK, I am calm now... >> >> Sharepoint? >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Steve Schapel wrote: >>> John, >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "jwcolby" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>> >>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >>>> how to turn it off. >>> >>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>> think >> >>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >>> of >> >>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >> off", >>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what >>> you're on about here. >>> >>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >> learning >>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>> >>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>> was >> >>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 03:38:51 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:38:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com><303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC><4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> <4CED2A3377C8445E88247D58757D40F1@stevePC> Message-ID: "as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about" Steve ...sigh ...you really don't get it, do you William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Schapel" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:23 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > John, > > I am very sorry, I have obviously misunderstood you. When you said "the > developer environment that got totally screwed around", I thought you were > referring to the "silly friggin toolbar". As a result of which, I though > you'd gone balmy kicking up such a fuss about such a little thing. So I > apologise for the misunderstanding. I have seen a lot of people focus on > the ribbon as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about, and I'm afraid I > jumped to conclusions and lumped you in with that lot. Sorry. > > Now, what *do* you mean by "the developer environment"? > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:19 PM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve, >> >> You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how to >> turn it off). I care >> about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The >> needless rearrangement of the >> entire environment. >> >> I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop >> applications. Toolbars are >> for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to >> interact with an application >> based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in forms, >> they enter data IN FORMS, >> they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, not >> with ACCESS. >> >> YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the >> developer world at large). >> >> LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. >> >> My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been >> asking my clients to FORCE >> their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. They >> have gone out and bought >> bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" >> and >> 15") many are 19" but >> their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the >> application more screen real >> estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources on >> a stupid toolbar which (If >> I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up the >> entire screen as it is. >> >> Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is >> simply irrelevant. NONE of my >> clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I >> don't care. >> >> And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like >> it? >> Because while we have >> been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only >> thing you will discuss. Not >> the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment >> that got totally screwed >> around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the >> developers are saying" attitude. >> >> THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! >> >> I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My clients >> aren't asking me to do 2007 >> and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and I >> am a developer. Access >> 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 29 03:41:05 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:41:05 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> Message-ID: <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> Hi Steve, I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - is that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available somewhere? Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too close to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics here - welcome to the club! :) As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are listening I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and that filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own business... Microsoft do you hear me? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Darryl, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Darryl Collins" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:31 PM > ... I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve. Thanks very much for your comments. As you know, we are rapidly approaching the release of the next version. Access 2007 was always going to be an interim measure, as a step moving towards new paradigms. I will have a better idea whether I'm backing the right horse after we have built some Access 2010 apps. > MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. Ever since I first started using Access in 1994, there have been vehement claims in one quarter or another that Access is dead, Microsoft is dropping Access, X and Y are better than Access, etc. I don't know about "on the edge", but really a turning point. What I think will happen is that those who abandon Access because of the new directions, will be replaced by others who embrace it and move forward with it. If you're one of those who moves to other technologies, I understand the reasons, and have no criticism, and I hope there is nothing I have said to imply otherwise. I wish you well with that. But for me, at this stage it looks like I will be sticking with Access for the long haul. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 03:49:41 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:49:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com><303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC> <4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <506FA1DCC5BD4D429F6C79DF6B82A1B4@jislaptopdev> ...lol ...and here I am trying desperately to move all my clients to 1400x1050 widescreens as their base resolution so I can stop playing the resize game with ridiculously low resolutions like 1024x768 ...I think I'd colbyize an 800x600 screen user :) ...but like you, every time a client user upgrades their monitor size they fight to keep the old resolution so that they can see it better, NOT to get more real estate ...the only solution for me has been to move them to dual monitors ...not that much of an investment with decent 20" monitors well under $200 these days :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:19 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve, > > You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how to > turn it off). I care > about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The > needless rearrangement of the > entire environment. > > I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop > applications. Toolbars are > for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to > interact with an application > based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in forms, > they enter data IN FORMS, > they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, not > with ACCESS. > > YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the > developer world at large). > > LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. > > My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been > asking my clients to FORCE > their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. They > have gone out and bought > bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" and > 15") many are 19" but > their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the > application more screen real > estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources on > a stupid toolbar which (If > I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up the > entire screen as it is. > > Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is > simply irrelevant. NONE of my > clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I > don't care. > > And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like it? > Because while we have > been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only > thing you will discuss. Not > the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment > that got totally screwed > around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the > developers are saying" attitude. > > THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! > > I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My clients > aren't asking me to do 2007 > and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and I > am a developer. Access > 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Steve Schapel wrote: >> John, >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:25 PM >> >>> I ask you why the programmer interface has to be screwed around. I can >>> hear the crickets... but I >>> don't hear you (or Microsoft). >> >> Obviously I am not in a position to speak for Microsoft. Regarding the >> reasons of the Access dev team to introduce the ribbon, you and I are in >> the >> same boat... you can surmise, and I can surmise. However, I gave my >> opinion >> 15 months ago >> http://blog.datamanagementsolutions.biz/2008/03/office-2007-ribbon-saga.html >> regarding the chances of this decision being reversed, and my opinion >> hasn't >> changed much since then. In that article, I referred to a video about >> the >> process of creating the ribbon, and that can be seen at >> http://msstudios.vo.llnwd.net/o21/mix08/08_WMVs/UX09.wmv so please feel >> free >> to check it out for at least part of Microsoft's answer. >> >> Of course, we could argue until we're blue in the face about Access isn't >> in >> the same category as the other Office products, and thus needs different >> treatment. But that wouldn't alter the fact that, as William pointed >> out, >> the ribbon will be significantly improved in Access 2010, as well as >> ribbon >> interface being included in some of the other Office products that missed >> out last time. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 04:01:08 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:01:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev> Shamil http://blogs.msdn.com/access/archive/tags/Access+14/default.aspx ...that's the Access 14 team manager's blog. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:41 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Hi Steve, > > I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - is > that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available > somewhere? > > Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too close > to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics here - > welcome to the club! :) > > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > > Microsoft do you hear me? :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Darryl, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Darryl Collins" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:31 PM > >> ... I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve. > > Thanks very much for your comments. As you know, we are rapidly > approaching > > the release of the next version. Access 2007 was always going to be an > interim measure, as a step moving towards new paradigms. I will have a > better idea whether I'm backing the right horse after we have built some > Access 2010 apps. > >> MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. > > Ever since I first started using Access in 1994, there have been vehement > claims in one quarter or another that Access is dead, Microsoft is > dropping > Access, X and Y are better than Access, etc. I don't know about "on the > edge", but really a turning point. What I think will happen is that those > who abandon Access because of the new directions, will be replaced by > others > > who embrace it and move forward with it. > > If you're one of those who moves to other technologies, I understand the > reasons, and have no criticism, and I hope there is nothing I have said to > imply otherwise. I wish you well with that. But for me, at this stage it > looks like I will be sticking with Access for the long haul. > > -- > Regards > Steve > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4194 (20090628) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 04:14:27 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:14:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a4885f7.0a04d00a.4926.4246@mx.google.com> William: Thanks for that link. Everybody (most all, anyway) keep referring to new FEATURES. I am more interested in BENEFITS. Any sales person will tell you that to make a sale you have to show the customer/client what BENEFITS the new features will bring to his business. IMO, features are useful to make initial sales to those who only have a "general feel for what they want and *think* that the list of benefits will do the job". It is also useful for more experienced people who think that their business strategy will sit well with the new look/feel and will be moving their product onto the new platform. For the Business Client who is paying for a developed package and who probably never touches a computer apart from letters and emails, the database driven backend is completely immaterial. This type of client is only concerned with run-times, throughput and output. He does not want his staff to sit there "playing' with the features. He wants them to do what he is paying them to do. Unless BENEFITS are open, obvious and cost-effective they are meaningless to developers. They cannot be leveraged on their existing business model because they do not deliver anything that can be passed on to the client and for which the client is willing to pay. IMO Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 29 June 2009 10:01 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Shamil http://blogs.msdn.com/access/archive/tags/Access+14/default.aspx ...that's the Access 14 team manager's blog. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:41 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Hi Steve, > > I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - is > that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available > somewhere? > > Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too close > to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics here - > welcome to the club! :) > > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > > Microsoft do you hear me? :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Darryl, > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Darryl Collins" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:31 PM > >> ... I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve. > > Thanks very much for your comments. As you know, we are rapidly > approaching > > the release of the next version. Access 2007 was always going to be an > interim measure, as a step moving towards new paradigms. I will have a > better idea whether I'm backing the right horse after we have built some > Access 2010 apps. > >> MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. > > Ever since I first started using Access in 1994, there have been vehement > claims in one quarter or another that Access is dead, Microsoft is > dropping > Access, X and Y are better than Access, etc. I don't know about "on the > edge", but really a turning point. What I think will happen is that those > who abandon Access because of the new directions, will be replaced by > others > > who embrace it and move forward with it. > > If you're one of those who moves to other technologies, I understand the > reasons, and have no criticism, and I hope there is nothing I have said to > imply otherwise. I wish you well with that. But for me, at this stage it > looks like I will be sticking with Access for the long haul. > > -- > Regards > Steve > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature > database 4194 (20090628) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.esetnod32.ru > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 29 04:24:43 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:24:43 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> Message-ID: <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <<< ... .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ... >>> Hi William, Maybe that was/is a Microsoft's "secret" plan? I mean to gradually "replace" MS Access RAD tools with .NET Framework and VS (VB.NET/C#) with the latter being not that hard to learn, and with the former having rather expensive upgrade costs? :) MS business model is definitely very strong (http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/ ) - they (MS) are rarely doing things, which do not pay back manifold - if they (MS) decide they can ignore opinions and customers of "old codgers" who do not want to switch to MS modern development tools why they (MS) should care and risk investing in technologies, which will not bring them good profits? That sound cynical, yes, but that's how things are looking from here. And again they (MS) do help advanced VBA developers to switch to use the modern development tools by making those tools much easier to do the software development than MS Access VBA even did... I'm not defending MS - "don't kill me please" :) - I'm just trying to be realistic as MS is I suppose - if they wouldn't be realistic (and cynical?) they would have got already out of business as many other software companies did... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From miscellany at mvps.org Mon Jun 29 04:28:23 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:28:23 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> Shamil, To my knowledge, there are only very general comments publicly available about Access 2010. The Access team at Microsoft have been keeping the cards very close to their chests. However, the launch of the Technical Preview (i.e. Beta) of Office 2010, including Access 2010 and SharePoint 2010, is expected within a few weeks, and after that I am expecting to see a lot more detailed information floating around, and a lot more lively discussion. By the way, I have been a member of this forum for several years. I'm sorry I only post occasionallly, but I normally read some of the posts here every day, so I am familiar with the general culture. Thanks. :-) As for your reference to VBA, of course with Access 2007 we got a lot of new objects and methods and properties. Plus support for scroll-wheel in IDE. :-) Obviously the move to 64 bit Access version will have some implications for VBA. But what enhancements in VBA will come with Office 2010, we will just have to wait and see. Interesting to note that VBA will now be included in Mac Office, so... still on the rise. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:41 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Hi Steve, > > I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - is > that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available > somewhere? > > Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too close > to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics here - > welcome to the club! :) > > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 29 04:39:30 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:39:30 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <000801c9f89d$8231de70$86959b50$@spb.ru> William, Thank you for the link - but they do not give any details on "What's new is MS Access 2010" do they? -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Shamil http://blogs.msdn.com/access/archive/tags/Access+14/default.aspx ...that's the Access 14 team manager's blog. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:41 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Hi Steve, > > I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - is > that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available > somewhere? > > Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too close > to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics here - > welcome to the club! :) > > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > > Microsoft do you hear me? :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From paulrster at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 04:48:13 2009 From: paulrster at gmail.com (Paul Rodgers) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:48:13 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <1ad7dee90906290248n6406ff48ob8bcb88fac78df83@mail.gmail.com> Well spoken, William. All that crowd listens to is a Niagara Falls jingle of cash. Their only system that appeared to be ok when it was offered to the public was 3.1. Since then, each new version has possessed major faults, yet each time they make an even bigger killing. To make these changes in 2007 can only be for a desired increase in profit - and the fellow is already the wealthiest in the world. The last people they hear are their present customers. Don't relent, William. You are right. Best wishes paul 2009/6/28 William Hindman > Steve > > "In spite of your insulting comments" Steve > > ...just so we're clear here ...I find your entire thread on this insulting > to those of us who make a living day in and day out with MS products ...you > talk as if we're spoiled brats unable to appreciate the wondrous changes MS > wrought for us with A2007 ...imnsho, you appear more interested in > maintaining your mvps tag than you are in listening to those who are here > daily and have been here for years working with MS Access and defending it > against all comers ...if MS WAS listening ...at all ...to working > developers, they'd have at least tried to fix serious bugs that have been > in > the system for three or more versions ...Allen Browne has had the list > posted for years now and updates it frequently ...every time MS asks what > we'd like to see in the next version, that list has been submitted ...over > and over and over ...and what did the wondrous Access 2007 development team > fix? > > ...they "fixed" the freakin' menu ...which was NOT broken ...at least not > before they "fixed" it. > > ...did they fix the long standing bugs? ...yeah, right. > > ...and I'll lay you any odds you like the list won't be fixed in A2010 > ...but the ribbon will still be there, eh > > ...if they call that "listening" they are in serious need of a hearing aid > ...imnsho of course > > ...have a nice day :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Steve Schapel" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:19 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > > William, > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "William Hindman" > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 12:35 AM > > > >> ... A2k3 is the last Access tool I'll ever use. > > > > I'm sorry to hear that, William. Of course, Access 2003 is now pretty > out > > of date. I mean, soon it will be *two* versions behind. > > > > In the meantime, I know people who used to be into VB6, and FoxPro, and > > various other technologies that are gradually going extinct. Whereas it > > looks to me that Access is just reaching adolesence. What a stroke of > > luck > > that some of us hitched our wagon to the Access horse, and not one of > > those > > others. > > > > Another few weeks, and we'll start to see some more frequent public > > discussion of the Access 2010 technical preview. In spite of your > > insulting > > comments, I really hope you will see your way clear to re-consider. > > > > -- > > Regards > > Steve > > > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > > signature database 4193 (20090626) __________ > > > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > > > http://www.eset.com > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 29 05:19:52 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:19:52 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> Message-ID: <000901c9f8a3$25477ed0$6fd67c70$@spb.ru> Steve, Yes, this is also my impression - MS Access 2010's "What's new" list is currently covered by a "secrecy hood". Strange. Especially comparing with how open is every new version/release of .NET Framework/VS - starting from very early CTPs to Betas (although I have never tried to find what new features' proposals of the .NET Framework/VS developers are taken into account by MS - probably just a few if any). Sorry, I've got your strong reaction on "attacks" as your being relatively new here - I also do not "lurk"/post that often here these days - I should have missed your previous posts on other topics here... <<< with Access 2007 we got a lot of new objects and methods and properties >>> Yes, I have seen that - it looks like there were something like 50% of new methods, properties and especially events added in MS Access 2007 comparing with MS Access 2003? But I must say I didn't have opportunity to use them as by MS Access 2007 release I have got already switched to .NET Framework/VS development. As far as I see MS Access 2007 allows to have "interactive reports" - I mean MS Access reports' controls enabled to react on different events as mouse clicks, mouse over etc., and MS Access reports reacting on similar events and "On Mouse Wheel" event - did you find good use of those "interactive reports" features in your customers applications? <<< Interesting to note that VBA will now be included in Mac Office, so... still on the rise. >>> Yes, that sounds as VBA is getting revived... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Shamil, To my knowledge, there are only very general comments publicly available about Access 2010. The Access team at Microsoft have been keeping the cards very close to their chests. However, the launch of the Technical Preview (i.e. Beta) of Office 2010, including Access 2010 and SharePoint 2010, is expected within a few weeks, and after that I am expecting to see a lot more detailed information floating around, and a lot more lively discussion. By the way, I have been a member of this forum for several years. I'm sorry I only post occasionallly, but I normally read some of the posts here every day, so I am familiar with the general culture. Thanks. :-) As for your reference to VBA, of course with Access 2007 we got a lot of new objects and methods and properties. Plus support for scroll-wheel in IDE. :-) Obviously the move to 64 bit Access version will have some implications for VBA. But what enhancements in VBA will come with Office 2010, we will just have to wait and see. Interesting to note that VBA will now be included in Mac Office, so... still on the rise. Regards Steve <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4195 (20090629) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From miscellany at mvps.org Mon Jun 29 05:54:26 2009 From: miscellany at mvps.org (Steve Schapel) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:54:26 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <000901c9f8a3$25477ed0$6fd67c70$@spb.ru> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <000901c9f8a3$25477ed0$6fd67c70$@spb.ru> Message-ID: Hi Shamil, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 PM > ... did you find good use of those > "interactive reports" features in your customers applications? This is the confusingly-named 'Report View' of a report, which was new to Access 2007 as an additional (i.e. as well as Print, Preview, etc) view of a report. Yes, I have used this a number of times, and found it very nice. The user can use built-in right-click menus to filter the data, and you can use the Click event to link from report records to detail forms, etc. Being able to assign a Control Source to an image control is another thing I have had cause to use quite a lot. Just a small thing, but anything that saves time and effort for the developer is nice. I have also really liked the new TempVar (temporary variable), which I have used extensively. Very easy to create anywhere, anytime, in your code, and then can be used throughout the application in code, in query criteria or calculated controls, in calculated expressions in form or report controls, etc. Very handy. -- Regards Steve __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4195 (20090629) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 07:16:40 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:16:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> Message-ID: <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE.? However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Jun 29 07:23:41 2009 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:23:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC>, <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B2@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Jim Have a look at this http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/conversion.html martin Martin WP Reid Information Services The Library at Queen's Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence [accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: 29 June 2009 13:16 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE. However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 07:36:34 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:36:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com><303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC><4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> <4CED2A3377C8445E88247D58757D40F1@stevePC> Message-ID: <4A48B552.2030109@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Nope! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > "as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about" Steve > > ...sigh ...you really don't get it, do you > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Steve Schapel" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:23 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> John, >> >> I am very sorry, I have obviously misunderstood you. When you said "the >> developer environment that got totally screwed around", I thought you were >> referring to the "silly friggin toolbar". As a result of which, I though >> you'd gone balmy kicking up such a fuss about such a little thing. So I >> apologise for the misunderstanding. I have seen a lot of people focus on >> the ribbon as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about, and I'm afraid I >> jumped to conclusions and lumped you in with that lot. Sorry. >> >> Now, what *do* you mean by "the developer environment"? >> >> Regards >> Steve >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:19 PM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> Steve, >>> >>> You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how to >>> turn it off). I care >>> about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The >>> needless rearrangement of the >>> entire environment. >>> >>> I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop >>> applications. Toolbars are >>> for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to >>> interact with an application >>> based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in forms, >>> they enter data IN FORMS, >>> they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, not >>> with ACCESS. >>> >>> YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the >>> developer world at large). >>> >>> LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. >>> >>> My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been >>> asking my clients to FORCE >>> their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. They >>> have gone out and bought >>> bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" >>> and >>> 15") many are 19" but >>> their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the >>> application more screen real >>> estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources on >>> a stupid toolbar which (If >>> I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up the >>> entire screen as it is. >>> >>> Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is >>> simply irrelevant. NONE of my >>> clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I >>> don't care. >>> >>> And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like >>> it? >>> Because while we have >>> been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only >>> thing you will discuss. Not >>> the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment >>> that got totally screwed >>> around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the >>> developers are saying" attitude. >>> >>> THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! >>> >>> I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My clients >>> aren't asking me to do 2007 >>> and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and I >>> am a developer. Access >>> 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >> signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 07:42:04 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:42:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a48b6a4.0a1ad00a.6c6a.4703@mx.google.com> Off the top of my head Jim, If you have a lot of References does this count against the overall count ? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 29 June 2009 13:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE.? However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 08:19:37 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:19:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4a4885f7.0a04d00a.4926.4246@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev> <4a4885f7.0a04d00a.4926.4246@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A48BF69.7000709@colbyconsulting.com> Boy is THAT well said. And that is the problem, Access is being gussified to sell it to the masses, not fixed to sell it to business who use it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > William: > > Thanks for that link. > > Everybody (most all, anyway) keep referring to new FEATURES. I am more > interested in BENEFITS. Any sales person will tell you that to make a sale > you have to show the customer/client what BENEFITS the new features will > bring to his business. > > IMO, features are useful to make initial sales to those who only have a > "general feel for what they want and *think* that the list of benefits will > do the job". It is also useful for more experienced people who think that > their business strategy will sit well with the new look/feel and will be > moving their product onto the new platform. For the Business Client who is > paying for a developed package and who probably never touches a computer > apart from letters and emails, the database driven backend is completely > immaterial. This type of client is only concerned with run-times, > throughput and output. He does not want his staff to sit there "playing' > with the features. He wants them to do what he is paying them to do. > > Unless BENEFITS are open, obvious and cost-effective they are meaningless to > developers. They cannot be leveraged on their existing business model > because they do not deliver anything that can be passed on to the client and > for which the client is willing to pay. > > IMO > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 29 June 2009 10:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Shamil > > http://blogs.msdn.com/access/archive/tags/Access+14/default.aspx > > ...that's the Access 14 team manager's blog. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:41 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Hi Steve, >> >> I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - is >> that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available >> somewhere? >> >> Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too close >> to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics here - >> welcome to the club! :) >> >> As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are >> listening >> I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and >> that >> filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) >> developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own >> business... >> >> Microsoft do you hear me? :) >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> Darryl, >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Darryl Collins" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:31 PM >> >>> ... I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve. >> Thanks very much for your comments. As you know, we are rapidly >> approaching >> >> the release of the next version. Access 2007 was always going to be an >> interim measure, as a step moving towards new paradigms. I will have a >> better idea whether I'm backing the right horse after we have built some >> Access 2010 apps. >> >>> MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. >> Ever since I first started using Access in 1994, there have been vehement >> claims in one quarter or another that Access is dead, Microsoft is >> dropping >> Access, X and Y are better than Access, etc. I don't know about "on the >> edge", but really a turning point. What I think will happen is that those >> who abandon Access because of the new directions, will be replaced by >> others >> >> who embrace it and move forward with it. >> >> If you're one of those who moves to other technologies, I understand the >> reasons, and have no criticism, and I hope there is nothing I have said to >> imply otherwise. I wish you well with that. But for me, at this stage it >> looks like I will be sticking with Access for the long haul. >> >> -- >> Regards >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature >> database 4194 (20090628) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> http://www.esetnod32.ru >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 29 08:25:26 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:25:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: Does anyone find that A2007 runs much slower that 2003? I and the ONE client who uses 2007 both find it noticeably and significantly slower. Is there some fix for that? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Steve, It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Max, Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that were given to us with Access 2007. I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a hunch they're getting it right. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. > > Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms > which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. > It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs > were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it > would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for > those who didn't want cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good > thing. > > What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, > it has bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that > have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the > God "Looks". It is functionality and benefits that count and these > are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding > has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense. > EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing a > MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > a > lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than > the interface has changed. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 08:26:36 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:26:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <1ad7dee90906290248n6406ff48ob8bcb88fac78df83@mail.gmail.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> <1ad7dee90906290248n6406ff48ob8bcb88fac78df83@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A48C10C.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> And then there is this on their blog... ...The last couple of months we have been refining the Access 14 ribbons and working hard to polish features. One invaluable tool we have for making decisions is the Customer Experience Improvement Program... ROTFLMAOBTC. Do you see ANY mention of "fixing the 10 year old bug list"??? Uhhh... nope. Refining the ribbons. OMG I will rush right out and buy a copy. NOT! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Paul Rodgers wrote: > Well spoken, William. All that crowd listens to is a Niagara Falls jingle of > cash. Their only system that appeared to be ok when it was offered to the > public was 3.1. Since then, each new version has possessed major faults, yet > each time they make an even bigger killing. > > To make these changes in 2007 can only be for a desired increase in profit - > and the fellow is already the wealthiest in the world. The last people they > hear are their present customers. > > Don't relent, William. You are right. > > Best wishes > > paul > > > 2009/6/28 William Hindman > >> Steve >> >> "In spite of your insulting comments" Steve >> >> ...just so we're clear here ...I find your entire thread on this insulting >> to those of us who make a living day in and day out with MS products ...you >> talk as if we're spoiled brats unable to appreciate the wondrous changes MS >> wrought for us with A2007 ...imnsho, you appear more interested in >> maintaining your mvps tag than you are in listening to those who are here >> daily and have been here for years working with MS Access and defending it >> against all comers ...if MS WAS listening ...at all ...to working >> developers, they'd have at least tried to fix serious bugs that have been >> in >> the system for three or more versions ...Allen Browne has had the list >> posted for years now and updates it frequently ...every time MS asks what >> we'd like to see in the next version, that list has been submitted ...over >> and over and over ...and what did the wondrous Access 2007 development team >> fix? >> >> ...they "fixed" the freakin' menu ...which was NOT broken ...at least not >> before they "fixed" it. >> >> ...did they fix the long standing bugs? ...yeah, right. >> >> ...and I'll lay you any odds you like the list won't be fixed in A2010 >> ...but the ribbon will still be there, eh >> >> ...if they call that "listening" they are in serious need of a hearing aid >> ...imnsho of course >> >> ...have a nice day :) >> >> William From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 08:27:13 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:27:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC><000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> Jim ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a decompile ...my process is: Turn Off CompactOnClose Decompile Exit Open w/Shift Compact w/Shift Compile Compact ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself often does nothing real. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] Access error > Hi All: > > I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen > before. > > The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the > objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code > modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is > relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. > > The error is as follows: > > > Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database > > This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an > MDE > file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable > number > of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet > database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open > TableIDs > at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this > limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, > report, etc). > There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet > database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE. > However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if > the > database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, > as > many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. > > More information about this error message online. > > > The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going > through > object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either > stops or starts. > > If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve > or > better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. > > Jim > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 08:29:18 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:29:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <4a48c1b4.0a04d00a.0d50.5697@mx.google.com> Revert to 2003 Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 29 June 2009 14:25 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Does anyone find that A2007 runs much slower that 2003? I and the ONE client who uses 2007 both find it noticeably and significantly slower. Is there some fix for that? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Steve, It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Max, Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had in adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes that were given to us with Access 2007. I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that we will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions in order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that is unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major movement towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a hunch they're getting it right. Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. > > Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms > which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. > It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs > were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it > would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for > those who didn't want cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good > thing. > > What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, > it has bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that > have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the > God "Looks". It is functionality and benefits that count and these > are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding > has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense. > EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing a > MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: > a > lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than > the interface has changed. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 08:28:48 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:28:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <1C9ED32699D8424B96842298E8FE3B15@jislaptopdev><4a4885f7.0a04d00a.4926.4246@mx.google.com> <4A48BF69.7000709@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <893F07656D484E35BED855ED2F4A4E55@jislaptopdev> ...I second that emotion. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:19 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Boy is THAT well said. > > And that is the problem, Access is being gussified to sell it to the > masses, not fixed to sell it to > business who use it. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> William: >> >> Thanks for that link. >> >> Everybody (most all, anyway) keep referring to new FEATURES. I am more >> interested in BENEFITS. Any sales person will tell you that to make a >> sale >> you have to show the customer/client what BENEFITS the new features will >> bring to his business. >> >> IMO, features are useful to make initial sales to those who only have a >> "general feel for what they want and *think* that the list of benefits >> will >> do the job". It is also useful for more experienced people who think >> that >> their business strategy will sit well with the new look/feel and will be >> moving their product onto the new platform. For the Business Client who >> is >> paying for a developed package and who probably never touches a computer >> apart from letters and emails, the database driven backend is completely >> immaterial. This type of client is only concerned with run-times, >> throughput and output. He does not want his staff to sit there "playing' >> with the features. He wants them to do what he is paying them to do. >> >> Unless BENEFITS are open, obvious and cost-effective they are meaningless >> to >> developers. They cannot be leveraged on their existing business model >> because they do not deliver anything that can be passed on to the client >> and >> for which the client is willing to pay. >> >> IMO >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: 29 June 2009 10:01 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> Shamil >> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/access/archive/tags/Access+14/default.aspx >> >> ...that's the Access 14 team manager's blog. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:41 AM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> I have heard there are should be many new features in MS Access 2010 - >>> is >>> that information on "What's new in MS Access 2010" already available >>> somewhere? >>> >>> Don't take "attacks" on your opinion on MS Access 2007 pros&cons too >>> close >>> to yourself - such "attacks" is a usual way to discuss "hot" topics >>> here - >>> welcome to the club! :) >>> >>> As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are >>> listening >>> I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and >>> that >>> filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access >>> (VBA) >>> developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own >>> business... >>> >>> Microsoft do you hear me? :) >>> >>> Thank you. >>> >>> -- >>> Shamil >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> Darryl, >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Darryl Collins" >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:31 PM >>> >>>> ... I hope you are backing the right horse here Steve. >>> Thanks very much for your comments. As you know, we are rapidly >>> approaching >>> >>> the release of the next version. Access 2007 was always going to be an >>> interim measure, as a step moving towards new paradigms. I will have a >>> better idea whether I'm backing the right horse after we have built some >>> Access 2010 apps. >>> >>>> MS Access has been on the edge before and I think it is now again. >>> Ever since I first started using Access in 1994, there have been >>> vehement >>> claims in one quarter or another that Access is dead, Microsoft is >>> dropping >>> Access, X and Y are better than Access, etc. I don't know about "on the >>> edge", but really a turning point. What I think will happen is that >>> those >>> who abandon Access because of the new directions, will be replaced by >>> others >>> >>> who embrace it and move forward with it. >>> >>> If you're one of those who moves to other technologies, I understand the >>> reasons, and have no criticism, and I hope there is nothing I have said >>> to >>> imply otherwise. I wish you well with that. But for me, at this stage >>> it >>> looks like I will be sticking with Access for the long haul. >>> >>> -- >>> Regards >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature >>> database 4194 (20090628) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> http://www.esetnod32.ru >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 08:33:50 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:33:50 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A48C10C.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <3476B2091FFA4E30A4D5B6BDCEFB929B@jislaptopdev> <1ad7dee90906290248n6406ff48ob8bcb88fac78df83@mail.gmail.com> <4A48C10C.8020609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a48c2c2.0702d00a.53ad.ffff940d@mx.google.com> ...."polishing features"....not a mention of GIVING (MORE) BENEFITS.... IOW, will look better and have smarter clicks to nowhere. Presentation, Presentation, Presentation. Never mind the Quality, feel the Width. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 29 June 2009 14:27 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 And then there is this on their blog... ...The last couple of months we have been refining the Access 14 ribbons and working hard to polish features. One invaluable tool we have for making decisions is the Customer Experience Improvement Program... ROTFLMAOBTC. Do you see ANY mention of "fixing the 10 year old bug list"??? Uhhh... nope. Refining the ribbons. OMG I will rush right out and buy a copy. NOT! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Paul Rodgers wrote: > Well spoken, William. All that crowd listens to is a Niagara Falls jingle of > cash. Their only system that appeared to be ok when it was offered to the > public was 3.1. Since then, each new version has possessed major faults, yet > each time they make an even bigger killing. > > To make these changes in 2007 can only be for a desired increase in profit - > and the fellow is already the wealthiest in the world. The last people they > hear are their present customers. > > Don't relent, William. You are right. > > Best wishes > > paul > > > 2009/6/28 William Hindman > >> Steve >> >> "In spite of your insulting comments" Steve >> >> ...just so we're clear here ...I find your entire thread on this insulting >> to those of us who make a living day in and day out with MS products ...you >> talk as if we're spoiled brats unable to appreciate the wondrous changes MS >> wrought for us with A2007 ...imnsho, you appear more interested in >> maintaining your mvps tag than you are in listening to those who are here >> daily and have been here for years working with MS Access and defending it >> against all comers ...if MS WAS listening ...at all ...to working >> developers, they'd have at least tried to fix serious bugs that have been >> in >> the system for three or more versions ...Allen Browne has had the list >> posted for years now and updates it frequently ...every time MS asks what >> we'd like to see in the next version, that list has been submitted ...over >> and over and over ...and what did the wondrous Access 2007 development team >> fix? >> >> ...they "fixed" the freakin' menu ...which was NOT broken ...at least not >> before they "fixed" it. >> >> ...did they fix the long standing bugs? ...yeah, right. >> >> ...and I'll lay you any odds you like the list won't be fixed in A2010 >> ...but the ribbon will still be there, eh >> >> ...if they call that "listening" they are in serious need of a hearing aid >> ...imnsho of course >> >> ...have a nice day :) >> >> William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 08:37:28 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:37:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com><303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC><4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> <4CED2A3377C8445E88247D58757D40F1@stevePC> <4A48B552.2030109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1B95D9F50DB94B93A167AC5AB5CDB8CE@jislaptopdev> ...the problem I suspect is that its people like Steve that are providing the only feedback MS listens to ...he's an MVP (a good thing) and thus is on the short list when MS wants input from "REAL" developers ...and as far as he is concerned, there is no problem ...only whining ...its a self-perpetuating feedback loop, it is :( William the Whiner -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:36 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > LOL. Nope! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > William Hindman wrote: >> "as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about" Steve >> >> ...sigh ...you really don't get it, do you >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Steve Schapel" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:23 AM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> John, >>> >>> I am very sorry, I have obviously misunderstood you. When you said "the >>> developer environment that got totally screwed around", I thought you >>> were >>> referring to the "silly friggin toolbar". As a result of which, I >>> though >>> you'd gone balmy kicking up such a fuss about such a little thing. So I >>> apologise for the misunderstanding. I have seen a lot of people focus >>> on >>> the ribbon as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about, and I'm afraid >>> I >>> jumped to conclusions and lumped you in with that lot. Sorry. >>> >>> Now, what *do* you mean by "the developer environment"? >>> >>> Regards >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "jwcolby" >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:19 PM >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how >>>> to >>>> turn it off). I care >>>> about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The >>>> needless rearrangement of the >>>> entire environment. >>>> >>>> I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop >>>> applications. Toolbars are >>>> for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to >>>> interact with an application >>>> based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in >>>> forms, >>>> they enter data IN FORMS, >>>> they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, >>>> not >>>> with ACCESS. >>>> >>>> YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the >>>> developer world at large). >>>> >>>> LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. >>>> >>>> My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been >>>> asking my clients to FORCE >>>> their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. >>>> They >>>> have gone out and bought >>>> bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" >>>> and >>>> 15") many are 19" but >>>> their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the >>>> application more screen real >>>> estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources >>>> on >>>> a stupid toolbar which (If >>>> I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up >>>> the >>>> entire screen as it is. >>>> >>>> Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is >>>> simply irrelevant. NONE of my >>>> clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I >>>> don't care. >>>> >>>> And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like >>>> it? >>>> Because while we have >>>> been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only >>>> thing you will discuss. Not >>>> the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment >>>> that got totally screwed >>>> around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the >>>> developers are saying" attitude. >>>> >>>> THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! >>>> >>>> I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My >>>> clients >>>> aren't asking me to do 2007 >>>> and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and >>>> I >>>> am a developer. Access >>>> 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>> signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>> >>> http://www.eset.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 29 08:39:28 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:39:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D034@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><4A482458.3020306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D034@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <7F920B2C2617423ABD50D56F02D4D745@HAL9005> "Excel 2007 is cumbersome but is not so bad to use" - damning with faint praise... Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Yep, we have been trialling Office 2007 for a few months now. I think they have improved how Outlook behaves and there are some nice features there, Excel 2007 is cumbersome but is not so bad to use (usual toolbar rant excepted), but Access 2007 is just a mess IMHO. They would have been far better off fixing the bugs and leaving the UI alone. Not many folks were complaining about the UI anyway from what I could tell. Anyway... As I said before, there seems to be a drift towards using a browser based FE anyway and given I only ever use Access as a FE these days it is a bit of a moot point. I would probably be heading this way anyway. Access 2007 has just speed up the process for me. I can't help but feel they are trying to turn Excel into a sloppy database and Access into some kind of spreadsheet, at the detriment of both products. *shrug*... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 29 June 2009 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Darryl, Wait... you are saying that you have given it a chance then. And all of these "fantastic changes"? Are you saying that you haven't discovered them? As for here in my part of the world, I don' have ANY clients using 2007, none even CONSIDERING moving to it. Steve is correct of course, MS can and does FORCE the change simply by refusing to sell the old stuff but my clients are scrambling to find old copies of 2003. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Darryl Collins wrote: > Hi Steve, > > It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. > > ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. > > I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? > > One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. > > So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve > Schapel > Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have > had in adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic > changes that were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around > Access development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent > hope that we will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the > Access team at Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and > unpopular decisions in order to keep Access current with the IT > industry, create a product that is unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major > movement towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps > only make sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret > about the fact that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of > Access, and I have a hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >> which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs >> were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it >> would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for >> those who didn't want cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good >> thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, >> it has bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that >> have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the >> God "Looks". It is functionality and benefits that count and these >> are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding >> has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense. >> EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing >> a MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than >> the interface has changed. >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to resupplying the material. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 08:40:44 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:40:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <4a48c1b4.0a04d00a.0d50.5697@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <33884EF40B7B49AD9565DF35B66D66C2@jislaptopdev> ...rotflmao!!! ...you're in rare form ...its going to be a GOOD day on the farm, it is :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:29 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Revert to 2003 > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: 29 June 2009 14:25 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Does anyone find that A2007 runs much slower that 2003? I and the ONE > client who uses 2007 both find it noticeably and significantly slower. Is > there some fix for that? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:44 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Steve, > > It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am > one > of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is > clunky > and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit > smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is > how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that > have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. > > ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer > backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them > where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get > all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom > nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at > the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, > can't do much really. > > I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is > no > where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small > businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted > whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are > generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they > sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the > recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why > bother upgrading at all? > > One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the > newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve > my > productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case > of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has > actually > made thing much worse for me and my clients. > > So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel > Sent: Saturday, 27 June 2009 7:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > Hi Max, > > Yes, I understand, and I have seen the problems that many people have had > in > adapting to change, and recognising the value of the fantastic changes > that > were given to us with Access 2007. > > I anticipate that in 10 years, my work will still be centred around Access > development. Maybe yours will be too. If so, it is my fervent hope that > we > will look back at this period, and feel gratitude to the Access team at > Microsoft, for their willingness to take the hard and unpopular decisions > in > order to keep Access current with the IT industry, create a product that > is > unique in its scope of functionality, and provide Access with a future. > > We have to see Access 2007 as the first tentative steps in a major > movement > towards Access 2010 and beyond, and sometimes tentative steps only make > sense in retrospect. But I don't think there is any secret about the fact > that Microsoft is investing hugely in the future of Access, and I have a > hunch they're getting it right. > > Regards > Steve > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:09 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> Steve FWIW, I am definitely PRO MS but anti Access 2007. >> >> Over the years MS has given the majority a stable site of platforms >> which enables collaboration at various levels throughtout and across the > World. >> It has never been Un-Affordable although it must be said that costs >> were never reduced once R&D and Profits Targets were reached - it >> would have been nice to the old-2-back versions at half price for >> those who didn't want cutting edge. But for me, MS has been a good >> thing. >> >> What I dislike mostly about A2007 is that, in real development terms, >> it has bought nothing to the table. It has remove interfaces that >> have, in some cases, taken years to hone and perfect, and all for the >> God "Looks". It is functionality and benefits that count and these >> are beyond the scope of end-users - complex, behind the scene coding >> has to be done to make it "perform" in a real tough business sense. >> EG. What did the Ribbon bring to the table for a developer producing a >> MR2 manufacturing solution? Answer: >> a >> lot of heartache to re-write existing code for no other reason than >> the interface has changed. >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential > information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have > received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this > e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not > waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is > your > responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No > warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any > other > defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not > the > sender's responsibility. The sender's entire liability will be limited to > resupplying the material. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 09:05:53 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:05:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <1B95D9F50DB94B93A167AC5AB5CDB8CE@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <4A48262C.10504@colbyconsulting.com><303F563A30704050A15F56C4A2E6C011@stevePC><4A4840CF.4010409@colbyconsulting.com> <4CED2A3377C8445E88247D58757D40F1@stevePC> <4A48B552.2030109@colbyconsulting.com> <1B95D9F50DB94B93A167AC5AB5CDB8CE@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A48CA41.20902@colbyconsulting.com> And I have to believe that if you whine too loudly, they take away your MVP status, thus the feedback loop gets tighter. Notice there is a whole lot of toeing the company line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > ...the problem I suspect is that its people like Steve that are providing > the only feedback MS listens to > ...he's an MVP (a good thing) and thus is on the short list when MS wants > input from "REAL" developers > ...and as far as he is concerned, there is no problem ...only whining > ...its a self-perpetuating feedback loop, it is :( > > William the Whiner > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:36 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> LOL. Nope! >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> William Hindman wrote: >>> "as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about" Steve >>> >>> ...sigh ...you really don't get it, do you >>> >>> William >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Steve Schapel" >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:23 AM >>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> John, >>>> >>>> I am very sorry, I have obviously misunderstood you. When you said "the >>>> developer environment that got totally screwed around", I thought you >>>> were >>>> referring to the "silly friggin toolbar". As a result of which, I >>>> though >>>> you'd gone balmy kicking up such a fuss about such a little thing. So I >>>> apologise for the misunderstanding. I have seen a lot of people focus >>>> on >>>> the ribbon as the thing about Access 2007 to whine about, and I'm afraid >>>> I >>>> jumped to conclusions and lumped you in with that lot. Sorry. >>>> >>>> Now, what *do* you mean by "the developer environment"? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:19 PM >>>> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> You still aren't listening. I don't CARE about the ribbon (except how >>>>> to >>>>> turn it off). I care >>>>> about the stupid crap you have to jump through to be a developer. The >>>>> needless rearrangement of the >>>>> entire environment. >>>>> >>>>> I repeat, YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING. My clients hire me to develop >>>>> applications. Toolbars are >>>>> for power users to interact with OFFICE AS THE APPLICATION, not to >>>>> interact with an application >>>>> based on Access. My clients don't use icons AT ALL. They are in >>>>> forms, >>>>> they enter data IN FORMS, >>>>> they run reports. They interact with the APPLICATION that I develop, >>>>> not >>>>> with ACCESS. >>>>> >>>>> YOU (and MS) AREN'T LISTENING TO ME (or anyone else on this list or the >>>>> developer world at large). >>>>> >>>>> LISTEN STEVE, GET WHAT I SAY. >>>>> >>>>> My clients have APPLICATIONS which fill the entire screen. I have been >>>>> asking my clients to FORCE >>>>> their users to move up to 1024 x 768. They are STUCK at 800 x 600. >>>>> They >>>>> have gone out and bought >>>>> bigger screens, ALL of their screens are now at least 17" (up from 14" >>>>> and >>>>> 15") many are 19" but >>>>> their users want the extra size to help them SEE better, not give the >>>>> application more screen real >>>>> estate. Now Access comes along and spends a ton of time and resources >>>>> on >>>>> a stupid toolbar which (If >>>>> I developed there) I would PROMPTLY turn off because my forms take up >>>>> the >>>>> entire screen as it is. >>>>> >>>>> Steve, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the toolbar is >>>>> simply irrelevant. NONE of my >>>>> clients care, at all. Not even one little bit. If they don't care, I >>>>> don't care. >>>>> >>>>> And yet obviously it is the world to you (and MS)? Obviously YOU like >>>>> it? >>>>> Because while we have >>>>> been discussing EVERYTHING EXCEPT the toolbar, the toolbar is the only >>>>> thing you will discuss. Not >>>>> the bug list that never gets addressed. Not the developer environment >>>>> that got totally screwed >>>>> around. Not Microsoft's arrogant "we don't give a damn what the >>>>> developers are saying" attitude. >>>>> >>>>> THE SILLY FRIGGIN TOOLBAR! >>>>> >>>>> I am not surmising anything, it is totally irrelevant to me. My >>>>> clients >>>>> aren't asking me to do 2007 >>>>> and so I am not. Access 2007 is being positioned as a "power toy" and >>>>> I >>>>> am a developer. Access >>>>> 2007 is all about pretty tool bars that don't matter. >>>> >>>> __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus >>>> signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ >>>> >>>> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. >>>> >>>> http://www.eset.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Jun 29 09:13:21 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:13:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) In-Reply-To: <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> Hi Shamil - I agree with you on MS business model. I think they've realized that to plan for many years ahead to maintain two separate, but not that different (VB.Net vs. VBA), programming methodologies isn't in their long-term business interest. Everyone should remember that MS has discontinued issuing new licenses for VBA. MS is a profit-seeking company, so they will change as needed to get the most they can. I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say, like we do with the government. If MS was a smaller company, we'd just say, "That's business!" Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) <<< ... .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ... >>> Hi William, Maybe that was/is a Microsoft's "secret" plan? I mean to gradually "replace" MS Access RAD tools with .NET Framework and VS (VB.NET/C#) with the latter being not that hard to learn, and with the former having rather expensive upgrade costs? :) MS business model is definitely very strong (http://www.insearchofstupidity.com/ ) - they (MS) are rarely doing things, which do not pay back manifold - if they (MS) decide they can ignore opinions and customers of "old codgers" who do not want to switch to MS modern development tools why they (MS) should care and risk investing in technologies, which will not bring them good profits? That sound cynical, yes, but that's how things are looking from here. And again they (MS) do help advanced VBA developers to switch to use the modern development tools by making those tools much easier to do the software development than MS Access VBA even did... I'm not defending MS - "don't kill me please" :) - I'm just trying to be realistic as MS is I suppose - if they wouldn't be realistic (and cynical?) they would have got already out of business as many other software companies did... -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4194 (20090628) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Jun 29 09:20:57 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:20:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> Message-ID: <16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters> Hi William, A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is a good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't originally plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use the system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or VB.Net? My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) > William, > > I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice > tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS > 2008 a tool that developers will like. > > But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to > pay > you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could > sure > use some pointers! > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) > > ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the > Access > > Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which > was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most > of > the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything > would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they > could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but > never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems > ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt > every > time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through > those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. > > ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the > developer > > promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE product > by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao > engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros > ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for > users > > ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody > cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( > > ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of > such silly stuff, eh > > ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real > databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh > ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! > ...look > > everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office > product, it does. > > ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 > until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with > Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t they > did with Access 2007 > > ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will > give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and > apparently > no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise > to > fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version > ...yeah, > right :( > > ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net > pool > > ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! > ...Visual > Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will > be > > ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be > dragged > away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so like > I > > said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually > like developers. > > ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >> SAME >> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by doing >> development work, have the same song book. >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> Steve, >> >> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >> weeks >> required to figure out >> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle memory) >> with the previous version? >> >> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >> earn >> all of the money for my >> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to spend >> the time to completely >> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and >> too >> bad for me. >> >> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >> accelerator as as a joystick in >> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as >> a >> knee switch, the >> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... maybe >> not?) THAT is precisely >> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >> >> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all of >> the hot keys, all of the >> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >> that, >> we programmed it to >> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >> "sharepoint >> server will make it all >> better" crapola, it changes. >> >> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >> POINT >> of moving everything >> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >> to >> allow the programmer to >> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >> "sharepoint will make it all >> better" crap! >> >> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all >> the >> other Office >> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >> right. >> It makes sense for those >> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I will >> take a pass on commenting >> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >> and >> Excel. Well whoopty >> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >> turn >> off to get the ACTUAL >> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >> >> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >> what >> 3rd normal form is and >> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what >> a >> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... I >> could go on and on. >> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >> CONSISTENT >> manner, and the USER >> hasn't a clue. >> >> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >> remember. >> Everything is a list >> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, >> the >> ORACLE guys. Tell that >> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >> >> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >> with >> Policy holder, policy, >> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >> great >> grandchild) and that is >> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >> magically not be needed I assume >> with sharepoint server? >> >> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >> makes >> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have >> been telling MS about are >> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a >> ton >> of magical glitz and >> glitter. >> >> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >> general response to this >> thread that I am not alone? >> >> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for >> a >> living. And now... I >> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >> are >> refusing to move in >> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it is >> "better". >> >> My ASS! >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> OK, I am calm now... >> >> Sharepoint? >> >> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >> >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Steve Schapel wrote: >>> John, >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "jwcolby" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>> >>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) on >>>> how to turn it off. >>> >>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>> think >> >>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >>> of >> >>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >> off", >>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to what >>> you're on about here. >>> >>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >> learning >>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>> >>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>> was >> >>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmm at tbig.com Mon Jun 29 09:24:19 2009 From: mmm at tbig.com (Myke Myers) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:24:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Function to get dimensions of Image file Message-ID: '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Procedure : fGetImageDimensions ' DateTime : 6/27/2009 15:55 ' Author : mmmyers ' Purpose : uses image pathfilename to get width x height in pixels '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Public Function fGetImageDimensions(strImagePathFilename As String) As String Dim objImage As Object Dim fs As Object Dim iWidth As Integer Dim iHeight As Integer On Error GoTo fGetImageDimensions_Error 'modImages.fGetImageDimensions Set fs = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") If Not fs.FileExists(strImagePathFilename) Then Exit Function Set objImage = LoadPicture(strImagePathFilename) iWidth = Round(objImage.Width / 26.4583) iHeight = Round(objImage.Height / 26.4583) fGetImageDimensions = iWidth & "x" & iHeight ExitHere: Set objImage = Nothing Set fs = Nothing Exit Function fGetImageDimensions_Error: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, vbCritical, "modImages.fGetImageDimensions" End Select Resume ExitHere 'When the messagebox for the error appears, press Ctrl-Break to debug Resume 'Click on this line and press Ctrl-F9 for debugging ' End Error handling block. tbig v1.1 End Function From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 09:29:10 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:29:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > > Microsoft do you hear me? :) ======FWIW, what I meant when I made that comment was that MS is not following my blog, nor do they consult me about anything. I doubt MS even knows I exist. Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jun 29 09:34:47 2009 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:34:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC><000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <964E47EACA814E24B4647065E9781B29@HAL9005> Does it compile? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE. However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Jun 29 09:39:26 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:39:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Function to get dimensions of Image file References: Message-ID: <878C4A191FF64EDA932F50E95FEB24EB@Mattys> Hi Myke, This must be your formula without use of API requisites ... right? Where does 26.4583 come from? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myke Myers" To: "'Database Advisors'" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: [AccessD] Function to get dimensions of Image file > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > ' Procedure : fGetImageDimensions > ' DateTime : 6/27/2009 15:55 > ' Author : mmmyers > ' Purpose : uses image pathfilename to get width x height in pixels > '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------ > ' > Public Function fGetImageDimensions(strImagePathFilename As String) As > String > Dim objImage As Object > Dim fs As Object > Dim iWidth As Integer > Dim iHeight As Integer > On Error GoTo fGetImageDimensions_Error 'modImages.fGetImageDimensions > > Set fs = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") > If Not fs.FileExists(strImagePathFilename) Then Exit Function > Set objImage = LoadPicture(strImagePathFilename) > iWidth = Round(objImage.Width / 26.4583) > iHeight = Round(objImage.Height / 26.4583) > fGetImageDimensions = iWidth & "x" & iHeight > > ExitHere: > Set objImage = Nothing > Set fs = Nothing > Exit Function > > fGetImageDimensions_Error: > Select Case Err.Number > Case Else > MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, vbCritical, > "modImages.fGetImageDimensions" > End Select > Resume ExitHere > 'When the messagebox for the error appears, press Ctrl-Break to debug > Resume 'Click on this line and press Ctrl-F9 for debugging > ' End Error handling block. tbig v1.1 > > End Function > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Jun 29 09:41:13 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:41:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> -----Original Message----- From: Rusty Hammond Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) I guess I don't see the upgrade costs to Access 2007 as a problem for the client. With the 2007 runtime being a free download, I'm the only one that needs to upgrade to Access 2007. I do agree there is a lot more cost to me in time spent getting up to speed on/converting to 2007 and that's hard to go to the client and say "it took me X number of hours to figure out how to to do this in the new version, so I'm going to bill you for that" when they already have a working application in 2003. So as a developer I have to decide where my time is best spent, learning .Net or Access 2007. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) Hi William, A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is a good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't originally plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use the system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or VB.Net? My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Jun 29 09:40:39 2009 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:40:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of it in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with Access every day. I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! Martin Martin WP Reid Information Services The Library at Queen's Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins [ssharkins at gmail.com] Sent: 29 June 2009 15:29 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > > Microsoft do you hear me? :) ======FWIW, what I meant when I made that comment was that MS is not following my blog, nor do they consult me about anything. I doubt MS even knows I exist. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 09:49:31 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:49:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net In-Reply-To: <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> Message-ID: <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> Dan, >I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say And I think the reason we are upset is that they CLAIM to be listening and then they polish their toolbars. Just come out and tell the developer community "We don't give a rat's ass about what you think is important and we aren't going to support you. MOVE TO .NET" and I think the response to them would be entirely different. Nobody likes to be jerked around year after year, promises made and broken year after year. I think the developer community is jaded, we know that WE are of zero importance to Microsoft (in the Access / Office universe). And yet they (and their MVPs) consistently CLAIM otherwise. There are a whole ton of people on this list who do some pretty powerful development work in Access and yet to my knowledge nobody here has ever been asked for an opinion (other than perhaps a certain MVP? who loooooooves the new product...) , nor have our opinions ever made one iota of positive difference in the product. Too busy polishing the friggin toolbars AFAICT. When I develop an application for my client, THEY drive what I do for them. WE don't drive what Microsoft does for Access, ergo WE are not the client. Now if they would just quit TELLING us we are the (or even A) client... We clearly are not. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi Shamil - > > I agree with you on MS business model. I think they've realized that to > plan for many years ahead to maintain two separate, but not that different > (VB.Net vs. VBA), programming methodologies isn't in their long-term > business interest. Everyone should remember that MS has discontinued > issuing new licenses for VBA. > > MS is a profit-seeking company, so they will change as needed to get the > most they can. I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are > the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say, > like we do with the government. If MS was a smaller company, we'd just say, > "That's business!" > > Dan From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 09:50:55 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4A48D4CF.9050800@colbyconsulting.com> Well you sure stirred up a hornet's nest. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: >> As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are >> listening >> I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and >> that >> filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) >> developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own >> business... >> >> Microsoft do you hear me? :) > > ======FWIW, what I meant when I made that comment was that MS is not > following my blog, nor do they consult me about anything. I doubt MS even > knows I exist. > > Susan H. > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 10:05:07 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:05:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> <4A48D4CF.9050800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0A808E0717684A00831D9ECC5947D172@SusanOne> Well, yeah... I thought I'd take a little pressure off you! ;) Susan H. > Well you sure stirred up a hornet's nest. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 10:17:30 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:17:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want to keep us believing they care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they have a database project to do (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on Access, but in the end they want to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS truly won't care, won't make any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they won't need us to sell Access anymore. In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to somehow convince everyone buying office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT (develop a database). In order to do that it has to be... 1) Pretty 2) Look the same as the other office apps 3) Pretty 4) Look the same as the other office apps 5) Pretty . .continue infinitely downward . Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether they need it, and EVERYONE knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need it, and NOBODY in their office knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So MS wants to make it DO SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think they can somehow use it, and thus BUY IT. I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing department. They spend millions convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 months in and can't build a database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of work because it is useless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Martin Reid wrote: > One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of it in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with Access every day. > > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! > > Martin > > Martin WP Reid > Information Services > The Library at Queen's > Tel : 02890976174 > Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 10:36:40 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:36:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> Message-ID: <4a48df8e.1818d00a.609d.0b7d@mx.google.com> Susan said : > I doubt MS even knows I exist. Try running some pirated MS software and you can find out if they know you exist or not.... Max Ps - no, sorry. To preempt your question, I have none to send you. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 29 June 2009 15:29 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are > listening > I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and > that > filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) > developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own > business... > > Microsoft do you hear me? :) ======FWIW, what I meant when I made that comment was that MS is not following my blog, nor do they consult me about anything. I doubt MS even knows I exist. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 10:40:58 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:40:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Function to get dimensions of Image file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a48e090.1c05d00a.141c.3bd5@mx.google.com> Hi Myke, Where would you use this? Looks useful, just need some example of where you use it. thanks Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Myke Myers Sent: 29 June 2009 15:24 To: 'Database Advisors' Subject: [AccessD] Function to get dimensions of Image file '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Procedure : fGetImageDimensions ' DateTime : 6/27/2009 15:55 ' Author : mmmyers ' Purpose : uses image pathfilename to get width x height in pixels '--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------ ' Public Function fGetImageDimensions(strImagePathFilename As String) As String Dim objImage As Object Dim fs As Object Dim iWidth As Integer Dim iHeight As Integer On Error GoTo fGetImageDimensions_Error 'modImages.fGetImageDimensions Set fs = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject") If Not fs.FileExists(strImagePathFilename) Then Exit Function Set objImage = LoadPicture(strImagePathFilename) iWidth = Round(objImage.Width / 26.4583) iHeight = Round(objImage.Height / 26.4583) fGetImageDimensions = iWidth & "x" & iHeight ExitHere: Set objImage = Nothing Set fs = Nothing Exit Function fGetImageDimensions_Error: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox "Error " & Err.Number & ": " & Err.Description, vbCritical, "modImages.fGetImageDimensions" End Select Resume ExitHere 'When the messagebox for the error appears, press Ctrl-Break to debug Resume 'Click on this line and press Ctrl-F9 for debugging ' End Error handling block. tbig v1.1 End Function -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Jun 29 11:27:23 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 09:27:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: NOT NICE, Susan!! How about if you and I eash take one of Max's arms and treat him like a maypole? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) Susan H. > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find > your way out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 11:34:54 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:34:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <9FC5823DDCA24046B114AA49F4C1E39A@SusanOne> > NOT NICE, Susan!! How about if you and I eash take one of Max's arms > and treat him like a maypole? =====Oh, the visual -- Charlotte, you should be an artist! ;) Susan H. From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 11:36:29 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:36:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a48ed93.1c05d00a.141c.4ebe@mx.google.com> Alternatively, how's about I say sorry.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 29 June 2009 17:27 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 NOT NICE, Susan!! How about if you and I eash take one of Max's arms and treat him like a maypole? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) Susan H. > Max > > ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find > your way out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) > > >> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >> >> Max >> >> >> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous code >> is... >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 12:07:56 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:07:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B2@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B2@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi Martin: Thanks for the info. I think I have conformed to all the issues but I will go through it all again and see if I have missed anything. It is too bad the error message is not more informative. (If we are not through wining about Access I suppose this could be added to the list ;-)) Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Jim Have a look at this http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/conversion.html martin Martin WP Reid Information Services The Library at Queen's Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence [accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: 29 June 2009 13:16 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE. However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 12:11:35 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:11:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4a48b6a4.0a1ad00a.6c6a.4703@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a48b6a4.0a1ad00a.6c6a.4703@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <126E0425564C4B6EA90410E36C5FAAF9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Max: No reference, nothing outside the usual other than a standard set of API calls. The MDB was working fine for a while and now it has decided to misbehave. There must be something that has triggered its change of attitude. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Off the top of my head Jim, If you have a lot of References does this count against the overall count ? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 29 June 2009 13:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE.? However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 12:21:39 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:21:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi William: I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have been using. I have not really checked it over. Is there any more switches than just 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Jim ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a decompile ...my process is: Turn Off CompactOnClose Decompile Exit Open w/Shift Compact w/Shift Compile Compact ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself often does nothing real. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] Access error > Hi All: > > I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen > before. > > The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the > objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code > modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is > relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. > > The error is as follows: > > > Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database > > This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an > MDE > file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable > number > of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet > database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open > TableIDs > at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this > limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, > report, etc). > There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet > database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE. > However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if > the > database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, > as > many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. > > More information about this error message online. > > > The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going > through > object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either > stops or starts. > > If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve > or > better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. > > Jim > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 12:21:40 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:21:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <126E0425564C4B6EA90410E36C5FAAF9@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a48b6a4.0a1ad00a.6c6a.4703@mx.google.com> <126E0425564C4B6EA90410E36C5FAAF9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4a48f828.0702d00a.79bc.3f6b@mx.google.com> Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files via EatBloat (don?t know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded control characters that may be causing the problem. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 29 June 2009 18:12 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Hi Max: No reference, nothing outside the usual other than a standard set of API calls. The MDB was working fine for a while and now it has decided to misbehave. There must be something that has triggered its change of attitude. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Off the top of my head Jim, If you have a lot of References does this count against the overall count ? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 29 June 2009 13:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE.? However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon Jun 29 12:55:13 2009 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:55:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Help w/VBA code In-Reply-To: <4A438AC2.167F.006B.0@niagaracounty.com> References: <00ef01c9f3ab$5645c520$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <015d01c9f53d$49599e70$0501a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <06141AEA44A7433BA495289B55DE02C7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A438AC2.167F.006B.0@niagaracounty.com> Message-ID: <4A48C7C1.167F.006B.0@niagaracounty.com> This is VBA code to clear a bunch of objects on a MS Word form (2007). It is erroring out on, "For Each oFF In ActiveDocument.FormField" and says something like, "User defined type not defined" ??????? __________________________________________________________________________________ Public Sub ClearFields() 'MsgBox "Test" Dim oFF As FormField For Each oFF In ActiveDocument.FormField If TypeOf oFF Is TextBox Then oFF.Text = vbNullString ElseIf TypeOf oFF Is ComboBox Or TypeOf oFF Is ListBox Then oFF.ListIndex = -1 ElseIf TypeOf oFF Is OptionButton Then oFF.Value = False ElseIf TypeOf oFF Is CheckBox Then oFF.Value = vbUnchecked Else '... End If Next oFF End Sub __________________________________________________________________________________ The error did go away, if we changed "TypeOf oFF" to just "oFF", but then I get another error on the next line...it now doesn't seem to like "oFF.Text"...but that IS the value I am testing. Anybody have code to clear a form? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Jun 29 13:05:21 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:05:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC><000901c9f8a3$25477ed0$6fd67c70$@spb.ru> Message-ID: I'll bet I could tell you how they implemented TempVar, because most of us have created some variation on that theme in the past to get around the limitations on global variables. It would be hidden in the MS implementation, but it has to be pretty much the same thing ... And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Shamil, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 PM > ... did you find good use of those > "interactive reports" features in your customers applications? This is the confusingly-named 'Report View' of a report, which was new to Access 2007 as an additional (i.e. as well as Print, Preview, etc) view of a report. Yes, I have used this a number of times, and found it very nice. The user can use built-in right-click menus to filter the data, and you can use the Click event to link from report records to detail forms, etc. Being able to assign a Control Source to an image control is another thing I have had cause to use quite a lot. Just a small thing, but anything that saves time and effort for the developer is nice. I have also really liked the new TempVar (temporary variable), which I have used extensively. Very easy to create anywhere, anytime, in your code, and then can be used throughout the application in code, in query criteria or calculated controls, in calculated expressions in form or report controls, etc. Very handy. -- Regards Steve From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Jun 29 13:06:09 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:06:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: Roll back to 2003? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Does anyone find that A2007 runs much slower that 2003? I and the ONE client who uses 2007 both find it noticeably and significantly slower. Is there some fix for that? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Steve, It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jun 29 13:13:08 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:13:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Message-ID: Hi Charlotte > .. And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: > the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. You nailed it. Where have you been in this message flood? /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 29-06-2009 20:05 >>> I'll bet I could tell you how they implemented TempVar, because most of us have created some variation on that theme in the past to get around the limitations on global variables. It would be hidden in the MS implementation, but it has to be pretty much the same thing ... And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Shamil, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 PM > ... did you find good use of those > "interactive reports" features in your customers applications? This is the confusingly-named 'Report View' of a report, which was new to Access 2007 as an additional (i.e. as well as Print, Preview, etc) view of a report. Yes, I have used this a number of times, and found it very nice. The user can use built-in right-click menus to filter the data, and you can use the Click event to link from report records to detail forms, etc. Being able to assign a Control Source to an image control is another thing I have had cause to use quite a lot. Just a small thing, but anything that saves time and effort for the developer is nice. I have also really liked the new TempVar (temporary variable), which I have used extensively. Very easy to create anywhere, anytime, in your code, and then can be used throughout the application in code, in query criteria or calculated controls, in calculated expressions in form or report controls, etc. Very handy. -- Regards Steve From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 13:14:39 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:14:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC><000901c9f8a3$25477ed0$6fd67c70$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <4a490493.0707d00a.6486.3257@mx.google.com> Charlotte: I am not sure this is the same thing. But, when I used to code in Foxpro, we had a function called Scatter MemVar and it opposite Gather MemVar. These were terribly important and useful. Basically, you could take a table and using Scatter, create a temporary variable for each field in the table with the same name, prefixed by m. (M DOT). It made coding very easy. Gather put the contents back into the table. As I say, tempvar need not be bad necessarily. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 29 June 2009 19:05 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 I'll bet I could tell you how they implemented TempVar, because most of us have created some variation on that theme in the past to get around the limitations on global variables. It would be hidden in the MS implementation, but it has to be pretty much the same thing ... And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Shamil, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 PM > ... did you find good use of those > "interactive reports" features in your customers applications? This is the confusingly-named 'Report View' of a report, which was new to Access 2007 as an additional (i.e. as well as Print, Preview, etc) view of a report. Yes, I have used this a number of times, and found it very nice. The user can use built-in right-click menus to filter the data, and you can use the Click event to link from report records to detail forms, etc. Being able to assign a Control Source to an image control is another thing I have had cause to use quite a lot. Just a small thing, but anything that saves time and effort for the developer is nice. I have also really liked the new TempVar (temporary variable), which I have used extensively. Very easy to create anywhere, anytime, in your code, and then can be used throughout the application in code, in query criteria or calculated controls, in calculated expressions in form or report controls, etc. Very handy. -- Regards Steve -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 13:15:44 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:15:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D031@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Message-ID: <4a4904d5.1701d00a.20ce.4861@mx.google.com> Too late...too late..I suggested that 72 hours ago.... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: 29 June 2009 19:06 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Roll back to 2003? Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Does anyone find that A2007 runs much slower that 2003? I and the ONE client who uses 2007 both find it noticeably and significantly slower. Is there some fix for that? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 4:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Steve, It is good to read that some folks like Access 2007. I cannot say I am one of them though. The whole app seems to be not quite finished. It is clunky and inelegant compared to Access 2003. Existing forms no longer fit smoothly on the screen and my personal bugbear in both Access and Excel is how MS have completely fouled up existing custom toolbars and menus that have functioned flawlessly for years and over multiple app versions. ok, you can recode them as custom tabs in XML, but then they are no longer backwardly compatible with older versions. You also cannot position them where they are most useful and the user still has to select the tab to get all the tools for the form. Rubbish. Besides, Often I would put a custom nav and close toolbar at the bottom of the screen with process toolbar at the top. Elegant, logic and functional - but no. Can't do that anymore, can't do much really. I don't know about the rest of the world, but here in Oz, Office 2007 is no where near critical mass. Most of the people who are using it are small businesses and 'mum and dads' who have purchased a new PC and accepted whatever it came with. Indeed, if anything folks who use Office 2007 are generally annoyed as hell to find out that .doc/.xls email attachment they sent everyone is hard to open and bits are missing for the bulk of the recipients. Yeah, I know you can run stuff in compat mode, but then why bother upgrading at all? One day time and technology will ensure that everyone creeps fwd to the newer apps, but I can honestly say the ribbon has done nothing to improve my productivity and I have been using it now for months- and in with the case of stuffing all the custom tools bars into the addin tab, this has actually made thing much worse for me and my clients. So Access 2007 a step forward? It is largely puffery and pretty colours. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 13:19:22 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:19:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a4905ae.0702d00a.79bc.4e3e@mx.google.com> No Gustav....we had this conversation with regard to GOTO. Don't blame the fact it is there...blame the improper use of it.. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 29 June 2009 19:13 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Charlotte > .. And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: > the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. You nailed it. Where have you been in this message flood? /gustav >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 29-06-2009 20:05 >>> I'll bet I could tell you how they implemented TempVar, because most of us have created some variation on that theme in the past to get around the limitations on global variables. It would be hidden in the MS implementation, but it has to be pretty much the same thing ... And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Schapel Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Hi Shamil, -------------------------------------------------- From: "Shamil Salakhetdinov" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 PM > ... did you find good use of those > "interactive reports" features in your customers applications? This is the confusingly-named 'Report View' of a report, which was new to Access 2007 as an additional (i.e. as well as Print, Preview, etc) view of a report. Yes, I have used this a number of times, and found it very nice. The user can use built-in right-click menus to filter the data, and you can use the Click event to link from report records to detail forms, etc. Being able to assign a Control Source to an image control is another thing I have had cause to use quite a lot. Just a small thing, but anything that saves time and effort for the developer is nice. I have also really liked the new TempVar (temporary variable), which I have used extensively. Very easy to create anywhere, anytime, in your code, and then can be used throughout the application in code, in query criteria or calculated controls, in calculated expressions in form or report controls, etc. Very handy. -- Regards Steve -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 13:19:05 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:19:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: Message-ID: <6DCEC893E0974DA1B22911BBBBBBF46D@SusanOne> Well, Charlotte actually works... ;) Poor dear! Susan H. > Hi Charlotte > >> .. And it's a great way to create a sloppy application: >> the easier it is, the sloppier it becomes. > > You nailed it. Where have you been in this message flood? From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 14:20:13 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:20:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters> Message-ID: <9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Dan ...you never know until you ask, eh ...if I do work for a client on a pretty regular basis, I now suggest the retainer basis to him ...I give him a substantial hourly discount and bill him for 30/60/90/120 hours "upfront" ...bill is due when submitted ...if he doesn't pay promptly, all hours worked are at regular rates. ...it levels my income flow considerably, I never have to dun an otherwise good customer, and ...think about it ...the client is more inclined to actually use you if he's already paid for your time ...and if you put an expiration date on the unused retainer, what used to be the most difficult part of the sell now becomes much easier. ...not every client is a prospect ...but since I almost never do any fixed fee work ...it works for more than you'd think. ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:20 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: PollonAccess2007)> Hi William, > > A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. > > The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is > a > good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't > originally > plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use > the > system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or > VB.Net? > My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also > uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay > him to play with :) > > ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert > his > > website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access > app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with > Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it > ...but > > then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use > and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party > ...so > I wound up doing it myself ...never again. > > ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp > development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so > in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just > released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS > Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to > be > > all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client > was > happy. > > ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on > retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when > a > client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I > started > moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff > in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client > wanted > > a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the > majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and > the > > sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy > > ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of > upgrading > > to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of > money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the > screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, > it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up > with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access > and > > Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. > > ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its > like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and > eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim > glow :) > > ...hth > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > >> William, >> >> I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice >> tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS >> 2008 a tool that developers will like. >> >> But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to >> pay >> you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could >> sure >> use some pointers! >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) >> >> ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the >> Access >> >> Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which >> was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most >> of >> the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything >> would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they >> could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but >> never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems >> ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt >> every >> time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through >> those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. >> >> ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the >> developer >> >> promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE >> product >> by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao >> engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros >> ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for >> users >> >> ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody >> cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( >> >> ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of >> such silly stuff, eh >> >> ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real >> databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh >> ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! >> ...look >> >> everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office >> product, it does. >> >> ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 >> until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with >> Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t >> they >> did with Access 2007 >> >> ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will >> give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and >> apparently >> no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise >> to >> fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version >> ...yeah, >> right :( >> >> ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net >> pool >> >> ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! >> ...Visual >> Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will >> be >> >> ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be >> dragged >> away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so >> like > >> I >> >> said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually >> like developers. >> >> ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jim Lawrence" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >>> SAME >>> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by >>> doing >>> development work, have the same song book. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >>> weeks >>> required to figure out >>> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle >>> memory) >>> with the previous version? >>> >>> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >>> earn >>> all of the money for my >>> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to >>> spend >>> the time to completely >>> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and >>> too >>> bad for me. >>> >>> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >>> accelerator as as a joystick in >>> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as >>> a >>> knee switch, the >>> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... >>> maybe >>> not?) THAT is precisely >>> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >>> >>> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all >>> of >>> the hot keys, all of the >>> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >>> that, >>> we programmed it to >>> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >>> "sharepoint >>> server will make it all >>> better" crapola, it changes. >>> >>> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >>> POINT >>> of moving everything >>> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >>> to >>> allow the programmer to >>> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >>> "sharepoint will make it all >>> better" crap! >>> >>> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all >>> the >>> other Office >>> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >>> right. >>> It makes sense for those >>> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I >>> will >>> take a pass on commenting >>> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >>> and >>> Excel. Well whoopty >>> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >>> turn >>> off to get the ACTUAL >>> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >>> >>> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >>> what >>> 3rd normal form is and >>> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what >>> a >>> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >>> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... >>> I >>> could go on and on. >>> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >>> CONSISTENT >>> manner, and the USER >>> hasn't a clue. >>> >>> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >>> remember. >>> Everything is a list >>> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, >>> the >>> ORACLE guys. Tell that >>> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >>> >>> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >>> with >>> Policy holder, policy, >>> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >>> great >>> grandchild) and that is >>> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >>> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >>> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >>> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >>> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >>> magically not be needed I assume >>> with sharepoint server? >>> >>> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >>> makes >>> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >>> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have >>> been telling MS about are >>> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a >>> ton >>> of magical glitz and >>> glitter. >>> >>> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >>> general response to this >>> thread that I am not alone? >>> >>> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for >>> a >>> living. And now... I >>> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >>> are >>> refusing to move in >>> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it >>> is >>> "better". >>> >>> My ASS! >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> OK, I am calm now... >>> >>> Sharepoint? >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Steve Schapel wrote: >>>> John, >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>>> >>>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) >>>>> on >>>>> how to turn it off. >>>> >>>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>>> think >>> >>>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >>>> of >>> >>>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >>> off", >>>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to >>>> what >>>> you're on about here. >>>> >>>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >>> learning >>>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >>>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>>> >>>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>>> was >>> >>>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 14:33:04 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:33:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was:Pollon Access2007) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters> <9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <13DC4A0353EF45BC8495BD7B8ED57E3D@SusanOne> > ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered > working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we > discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. ===Love retainer work. :) Susan H. From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 14:33:09 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:33:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC><000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC><99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com><8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> Jim ...no, the switch setting is what I use ...its the process that is a bit more complex than simply running the decompile ...the decompile switch itself only works reliably if you follow the steps before and after using it ...in other words it only puts your app in a state that will result in a clean build "IF" you walk though each step. ...its always been confusing to me ...sometimes it appears to work by itself ...other times not ...the only consistent decompile results I've achieved come when I follow the complete process, not just right click on "decompile" ...besides which, I should have mentioned that I also use Max's EatBloat app when even decompile doesn't work for me ...but I've said it so many times here people think Max is paying me off :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > Hi William: > > I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the > decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other > than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have > been > using. I have not really checked it over. > > Is there any more switches than just > 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe > c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Jim > > ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled > ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, > ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy > ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers > ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a > decompile > > ...my process is: > > Turn Off CompactOnClose > Decompile > Exit > Open w/Shift > Compact w/Shift > Compile > Compact > > ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself > often does nothing real. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: [AccessD] Access error > >> Hi All: >> >> I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen >> before. >> >> The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the >> objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code >> modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is >> relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. >> >> The error is as follows: >> >> >> Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database >> >> This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an >> MDE >> file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable >> number >> of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet >> database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open >> TableIDs >> at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this >> limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, >> report, etc). >> There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet >> database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an >> MDE. >> However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if >> the >> database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, >> as >> many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. >> >> More information about this error message online. >> >> >> The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going >> through >> object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either >> stops or starts. >> >> If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve >> or >> better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 14:38:37 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:38:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC><000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru><4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC><99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com><8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a491840.1818d00a.32bf.155d@mx.google.com> No way, he is not even on a retainer... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 29 June 2009 20:33 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Jim ...no, the switch setting is what I use ...its the process that is a bit more complex than simply running the decompile ...the decompile switch itself only works reliably if you follow the steps before and after using it ...in other words it only puts your app in a state that will result in a clean build "IF" you walk though each step. ...its always been confusing to me ...sometimes it appears to work by itself ...other times not ...the only consistent decompile results I've achieved come when I follow the complete process, not just right click on "decompile" ...besides which, I should have mentioned that I also use Max's EatBloat app when even decompile doesn't work for me ...but I've said it so many times here people think Max is paying me off :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > Hi William: > > I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the > decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other > than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have > been > using. I have not really checked it over. > > Is there any more switches than just > 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe > c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Jim > > ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled > ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, > ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy > ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers > ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a > decompile > > ...my process is: > > Turn Off CompactOnClose > Decompile > Exit > Open w/Shift > Compact w/Shift > Compile > Compact > > ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself > often does nothing real. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: [AccessD] Access error > >> Hi All: >> >> I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen >> before. >> >> The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the >> objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code >> modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is >> relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. >> >> The error is as follows: >> >> >> Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database >> >> This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an >> MDE >> file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable >> number >> of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet >> database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open >> TableIDs >> at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this >> limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, >> report, etc). >> There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet >> database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an >> MDE. >> However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if >> the >> database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, >> as >> many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. >> >> More information about this error message online. >> >> >> The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going >> through >> object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either >> stops or starts. >> >> If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve >> or >> better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 14:42:51 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:42:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of work because it is useless." JC ...its worse than that ...you have to break their bad habits ...you have to pretty much kill their power user ...and if I can't get a new client to agree to runtime only installs with mdes up front, I don't take the job ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:17 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can > > see as someone already > said they have a listening issue!!!!!! > > LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want to > keep us believing they > care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they have > a database project to do > (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on > Access, but in the end they want > to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. > > NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS > truly won't care, won't make > any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they won't > need us to sell Access > anymore. > > In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to somehow > convince everyone buying > office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT > (develop a database). In > order to do that it has to be... > > 1) Pretty > 2) Look the same as the other office apps > 3) Pretty > 4) Look the same as the other office apps > 5) Pretty > . > .continue infinitely downward > . > > Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether > they need it, and EVERYONE > knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and > LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to > use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need it, > and NOBODY in their office > knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So MS > wants to make it DO > SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think > they can somehow use it, and > thus BUY IT. > > I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing > department. They spend millions > convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 > months in and can't build a > database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have to > trash their six months of > work because it is useless. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Martin Reid wrote: >> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch >> the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already >> in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of it >> in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every >> opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with >> Access every day. >> >> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >> see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >> >> Martin >> >> Martin WP Reid >> Information Services >> The Library at Queen's >> Tel : 02890976174 >> Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 14:45:30 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:45:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> <4a48ed93.1c05d00a.141c.4ebe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: ...lol ...they know you too well ...would be the least bit credible, eh :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:36 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > Alternatively, how's about I say sorry.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 29 June 2009 17:27 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > NOT NICE, Susan!! How about if you and I eash take one of Max's arms > and treat him like a maypole? > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:44 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) > > > > Susan H. > > >> Max >> >> ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find >> your way out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) >> >> >>> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous > code >>> is... >>> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 14:54:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:54:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a491bf3.0a1ad00a.3709.4cda@mx.google.com> William, a question. If you have an MDE (which I know you use) and you encrypt the BE, can they still run active queries via "the power user"? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 29 June 2009 20:43 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 "Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of work because it is useless." JC ...its worse than that ...you have to break their bad habits ...you have to pretty much kill their power user ...and if I can't get a new client to agree to runtime only installs with mdes up front, I don't take the job ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( William -------------------------------------------------- From: "jwcolby" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:17 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can > > see as someone already > said they have a listening issue!!!!!! > > LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want to > keep us believing they > care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they have > a database project to do > (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on > Access, but in the end they want > to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. > > NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS > truly won't care, won't make > any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they won't > need us to sell Access > anymore. > > In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to somehow > convince everyone buying > office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT > (develop a database). In > order to do that it has to be... > > 1) Pretty > 2) Look the same as the other office apps > 3) Pretty > 4) Look the same as the other office apps > 5) Pretty > . > .continue infinitely downward > . > > Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether > they need it, and EVERYONE > knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and > LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to > use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need it, > and NOBODY in their office > knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So MS > wants to make it DO > SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think > they can somehow use it, and > thus BUY IT. > > I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing > department. They spend millions > convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 > months in and can't build a > database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have to > trash their six months of > work because it is useless. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Martin Reid wrote: >> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch >> the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already >> in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of it >> in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every >> opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with >> Access every day. >> >> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >> see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >> >> Martin >> >> Martin WP Reid >> Information Services >> The Library at Queen's >> Tel : 02890976174 >> Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 14:54:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:54:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A46061E.5080106@colbyconsulting.com><4a460e51.0707d00a.73f8.46f9@mx.google.com> <4a48ed93.1c05d00a.141c.4ebe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4a491bf7.0a1ad00a.3709.4ce1@mx.google.com> Might hold them off for a few days...LOL Better that than mutilation. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 29 June 2009 20:46 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 ...lol ...they know you too well ...would be the least bit credible, eh :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:36 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > Alternatively, how's about I say sorry.... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: 29 June 2009 17:27 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > NOT NICE, Susan!! How about if you and I eash take one of Max's arms > and treat him like a maypole? > > Charlotte > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 7:44 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Poll on Access 2007 > > Wait... I thought that was Charlotte!!! ;) > > > > Susan H. > > >> Max >> >> ...gotta give you credit for brass balls, eh ...if you ever do find >> your way out of that bomb shelter, drop us a note :) >> >> >>> No, you are mixing me up with Susan... >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> And then you get old, and you can't even remember where the previous > code >>> is... >>> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 15:06:07 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:06:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <964E47EACA814E24B4647065E9781B29@HAL9005> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <964E47EACA814E24B4647065E9781B29@HAL9005> Message-ID: <507E704887B44E45BBF9C85CD3D22275@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Rocky: It starts but with see below errors... within the brackets. I will do some more work on it later but have to do a client run now. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Does it compile? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE. However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 15:16:10 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:16:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Rusty: Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that integration? If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or conversion process. Now it is one or other. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) -----Original Message----- From: Rusty Hammond Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) I guess I don't see the upgrade costs to Access 2007 as a problem for the client. With the 2007 runtime being a free download, I'm the only one that needs to upgrade to Access 2007. I do agree there is a lot more cost to me in time spent getting up to speed on/converting to 2007 and that's hard to go to the client and say "it took me X number of hours to figure out how to to do this in the new version, so I'm going to bill you for that" when they already have a working application in 2003. So as a developer I have to decide where my time is best spent, learning .Net or Access 2007. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) Hi William, A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is a good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't originally plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use the system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or VB.Net? My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:16:48 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:16:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk><4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: A power user cured me of projects by fee. The client paid me 1/3 up front as a deposit. Then, when the application was nearly done -- the power user knew enough that she didn't need a hand-holding interface -- they just stopped corresponding. I knew they were using the last version I had sent them, but they never paid me and stopped returning my calls and emails -- just flat stole the work. Never worked by the project again. Susan H. > ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user > with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 15:38:43 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:38:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> <4a491bf3.0a1ad00a.3709.4cda@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <61E6A261A42B4FFA9321C8AD45C1C87A@jislaptopdev> ...if they have access to all the table data, they can run their own queries. ...I could encrypt the be such that only the mde could access it but that's a rpita ...its simpler just to eliminate the power user William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > William, a question. > If you have an MDE (which I know you use) and you encrypt the BE, can they > still run active queries via "the power user"? > > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 29 June 2009 20:43 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > "Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of > work because it is useless." JC > > ...its worse than that ...you have to break their bad habits ...you have > to > pretty much kill their power user ...and if I can't get a new client to > agree to runtime only installs with mdes up front, I don't take the job > ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user > with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:17 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >> > see as someone already >> said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >> >> LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want to >> keep us believing they >> care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they >> have > >> a database project to do >> (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on >> Access, but in the end they want >> to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. >> >> NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS >> truly won't care, won't make >> any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they won't >> need us to sell Access >> anymore. >> >> In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to somehow >> convince everyone buying >> office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT >> (develop a database). In >> order to do that it has to be... >> >> 1) Pretty >> 2) Look the same as the other office apps >> 3) Pretty >> 4) Look the same as the other office apps >> 5) Pretty >> . >> .continue infinitely downward >> . >> >> Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether >> they need it, and EVERYONE >> knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and >> LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to >> use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need it, >> and NOBODY in their office >> knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So MS >> wants to make it DO >> SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think >> they can somehow use it, and >> thus BUY IT. >> >> I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing >> department. They spend millions >> convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 >> months in and can't build a >> database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have to >> trash their six months of >> work because it is useless. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Martin Reid wrote: >>> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch >>> the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already >>> in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of >>> it > >>> in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every >>> opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with >>> Access every day. >>> >>> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >>> see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> Martin WP Reid >>> Information Services >>> The Library at Queen's >>> Tel : 02890976174 >>> Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Jun 29 15:39:19 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:39:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Message-ID: <4A492677.1030002@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All John you are going to blow a gasket. What is all this crying and whining about Access 2007. Gratious MS has given developers free use of MS SQL and VB.net. What more could you ask for. Leave MS Access 2007 alone and enjoy your freebies. MS hasn't forgotten you. Just kidding. Same player new game. From kismert at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:44:56 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:44:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Help w/VBA code Message-ID: <7c7841600906291344u316e2643xee637fef38fe7f14@mail.gmail.com> John: The collection is plural: ActiveDocument.FormFields -Ken > This is VBA code to clear a bunch of objects on a MS Word form (2007). > It is erroring out on, "For Each oFF In ActiveDocument.FormField" and > says something like, "User defined type not defined" ??????? ... From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 15:44:41 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:44:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim ...the only Office automation I was ever guilty of was Word merges and e-mail which can be done with .net. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:16 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2007)> Hi Rusty: > > Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office > automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that > integration? > > If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or > conversion process. Now it is one or other. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 > 007) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty Hammond > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:37 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > I guess I don't see the upgrade costs to Access 2007 as a problem for the > client. With the 2007 runtime being a free download, I'm the only one > that > needs to upgrade to Access 2007. > > I do agree there is a lot more cost to me in time spent getting up to > speed > on/converting to 2007 and that's hard to go to the client and say "it took > me X number of hours to figure out how to to do this in the new version, > so > I'm going to bill you for that" when they already have a working > application > in 2003. So as a developer I have to decide where my time is best spent, > learning .Net or Access 2007. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:21 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > Hi William, > > A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. > > The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is > a > good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't > originally > plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use > the > system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or > VB.Net? > My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also > uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay > him to play with :) > > ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert > his > > website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access > app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with > Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it > ...but > > then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use > and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party > ...so > I wound up doing it myself ...never again. > > ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp > development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so > in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just > released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS > Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to > be > > all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client > was > happy. > > ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on > retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when > a > client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I > started > moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff > in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client > wanted > > a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the > majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and > the > > sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy > > ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of > upgrading > > to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of > money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the > screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, > it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up > with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access > and > > Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. > > ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its > like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and > eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim > glow :) > > ...hth > > William > > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 15:50:53 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:50:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A49292D.4070304@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL, a soup nazi you are eh? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com William Hindman wrote: > "Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of > work because it is useless." JC > > ...its worse than that ...you have to break their bad habits ...you have to > pretty much kill their power user ...and if I can't get a new client to > agree to runtime only installs with mdes up front, I don't take the job > ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user > with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:17 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >>> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >>> see as someone already >> said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >> >> LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want to >> keep us believing they >> care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they have >> a database project to do >> (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on >> Access, but in the end they want >> to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. >> >> NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS >> truly won't care, won't make >> any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they won't >> need us to sell Access >> anymore. >> >> In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to somehow >> convince everyone buying >> office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT >> (develop a database). In >> order to do that it has to be... >> >> 1) Pretty >> 2) Look the same as the other office apps >> 3) Pretty >> 4) Look the same as the other office apps >> 5) Pretty >> . >> .continue infinitely downward >> . >> >> Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether >> they need it, and EVERYONE >> knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and >> LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to >> use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need it, >> and NOBODY in their office >> knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So MS >> wants to make it DO >> SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think >> they can somehow use it, and >> thus BUY IT. >> >> I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing >> department. They spend millions >> convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 >> months in and can't build a >> database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have to >> trash their six months of >> work because it is useless. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Martin Reid wrote: >>> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch >>> the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already >>> in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of it >>> in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every >>> opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with >>> Access every day. >>> >>> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >>> see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> Martin WP Reid >>> Information Services >>> The Library at Queen's >>> Tel : 02890976174 >>> Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 15:53:03 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:53:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk><4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A4929AF.4070203@colbyconsulting.com> Nothing a molitov cocktail through the front window wouldn't fix. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: > A power user cured me of projects by fee. The client paid me 1/3 up front as > a deposit. Then, when the application was nearly done -- the power user knew > enough that she didn't need a hand-holding interface -- they just stopped > corresponding. I knew they were using the last version I had sent them, but > they never paid me and stopped returning my calls and emails -- just flat > stole the work. > > Never worked by the project again. > > Susan H. > > >> ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user >> with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 15:55:45 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:55:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A492677.1030002@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A492677.1030002@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4A492A51.5090007@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. No gasket blown. Of course .net is the long term solution. I have enjoyed the ride though. Once I got good at Access it could do a lot of stuff VERY quickly. My framework allowed me to do even more, even more quickly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > John you are going to blow a gasket. > What is all this crying and whining about Access 2007. Gratious MS has > given developers free use of MS SQL and VB.net. What more could you ask > for. Leave MS Access 2007 alone and enjoy your freebies. MS hasn't > forgotten you. Just kidding. Same player new game. From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Jun 29 15:57:36 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 15:57:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: <9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters> <9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: Hi William - now I'm really hooked! Couple questions: 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if they want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) Dan ...you never know until you ask, eh ...if I do work for a client on a pretty regular basis, I now suggest the retainer basis to him ...I give him a substantial hourly discount and bill him for 30/60/90/120 hours "upfront" ...bill is due when submitted ...if he doesn't pay promptly, all hours worked are at regular rates. ...it levels my income flow considerably, I never have to dun an otherwise good customer, and ...think about it ...the client is more inclined to actually use you if he's already paid for your time ...and if you put an expiration date on the unused retainer, what used to be the most difficult part of the sell now becomes much easier. ...not every client is a prospect ...but since I almost never do any fixed fee work ...it works for more than you'd think. ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:20 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: PollonAccess2007)> Hi William, > > A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. > > The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is > a > good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't > originally > plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use > the > system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or > VB.Net? > My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also > uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay > him to play with :) > > ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert > his > > website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access > app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with > Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it > ...but > > then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use > and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party > ...so > I wound up doing it myself ...never again. > > ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp > development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so > in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just > released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS > Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to > be > > all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client > was > happy. > > ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on > retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when > a > client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I > started > moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff > in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client > wanted > > a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the > majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and > the > > sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy > > ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of > upgrading > > to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of > money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the > screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, > it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up > with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access > and > > Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. > > ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its > like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and > eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim > glow :) > > ...hth > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > >> William, >> >> I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice >> tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS >> 2008 a tool that developers will like. >> >> But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to >> pay >> you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could >> sure >> use some pointers! >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) >> >> ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the >> Access >> >> Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group which >> was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most >> of >> the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that everything >> would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that they >> could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years but >> never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems >> ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt >> every >> time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back through >> those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. >> >> ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the >> developer >> >> promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE >> product >> by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new dao >> engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros >> ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for >> users >> >> ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody >> cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( >> >> ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid of >> such silly stuff, eh >> >> ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real >> databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh >> ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! >> ...look >> >> everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office >> product, it does. >> >> ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access 97 >> until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with >> Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t >> they >> did with Access 2007 >> >> ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 will >> give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and >> apparently >> no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise >> to >> fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version >> ...yeah, >> right :( >> >> ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net >> pool >> >> ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! >> ...Visual >> Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never will >> be >> >> ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be >> dragged >> away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so >> like > >> I >> >> said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually >> like developers. >> >> ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jim Lawrence" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >>> SAME >>> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by >>> doing >>> development work, have the same song book. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> Steve, >>> >>> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >>> weeks >>> required to figure out >>> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle >>> memory) >>> with the previous version? >>> >>> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >>> earn >>> all of the money for my >>> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to >>> spend >>> the time to completely >>> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that and >>> too >>> bad for me. >>> >>> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >>> accelerator as as a joystick in >>> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights as >>> a >>> knee switch, the >>> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... >>> maybe >>> not?) THAT is precisely >>> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >>> >>> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all >>> of >>> the hot keys, all of the >>> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >>> that, >>> we programmed it to >>> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >>> "sharepoint >>> server will make it all >>> better" crapola, it changes. >>> >>> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >>> POINT >>> of moving everything >>> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >>> to >>> allow the programmer to >>> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >>> "sharepoint will make it all >>> better" crap! >>> >>> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of all >>> the >>> other Office >>> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >>> right. >>> It makes sense for those >>> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I >>> will >>> take a pass on commenting >>> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >>> and >>> Excel. Well whoopty >>> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >>> turn >>> off to get the ACTUAL >>> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >>> >>> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >>> what >>> 3rd normal form is and >>> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" what >>> a >>> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >>> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... >>> I >>> could go on and on. >>> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >>> CONSISTENT >>> manner, and the USER >>> hasn't a clue. >>> >>> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >>> remember. >>> Everything is a list >>> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server guys, >>> the >>> ORACLE guys. Tell that >>> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >>> >>> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >>> with >>> Policy holder, policy, >>> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >>> great >>> grandchild) and that is >>> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >>> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >>> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >>> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >>> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >>> magically not be needed I assume >>> with sharepoint server? >>> >>> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >>> makes >>> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >>> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I have >>> been telling MS about are >>> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have a >>> ton >>> of magical glitz and >>> glitter. >>> >>> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >>> general response to this >>> thread that I am not alone? >>> >>> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access for >>> a >>> living. And now... I >>> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >>> are >>> refusing to move in >>> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it >>> is >>> "better". >>> >>> My ASS! >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> OK, I am calm now... >>> >>> Sharepoint? >>> >>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>> >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Steve Schapel wrote: >>>> John, >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>>> >>>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) >>>>> on >>>>> how to turn it off. >>>> >>>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>>> think >>> >>>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the point >>>> of >>> >>>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >>> off", >>>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to >>>> what >>>> you're on about here. >>>> >>>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >>> learning >>>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would be >>>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>>> >>>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>>> was >>> >>>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Mon Jun 29 15:58:17 2009 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Mike Mattys) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:58:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <4A492677.1030002@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4BDAF8BDCFB642D48279EB3B7A7DE863@Mattys> Free ... yes, it's all free with Reflector Don't think you can hide with obfuscation, you can't. What does MS use to compile into unreadable apps? - Michael R Mattys MapPoint and Database Dev www.mattysconsulting.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Septav" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:39 PM Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > Hey All > John you are going to blow a gasket. > What is all this crying and whining about Access 2007. Gratious MS has > given developers free use of MS SQL and VB.net. What more could you ask > for. Leave MS Access 2007 alone and enjoy your freebies. MS hasn't > forgotten you. Just kidding. Same player new game. > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 15:59:43 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:59:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk><4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> <4A4929AF.4070203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <975391AF769543E592ED590EFE860CE2@SusanOne> You sound like my Bill... ;) Susan H. > Nothing a molitov cocktail through the front window wouldn't fix. > > ;) From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jun 29 16:03:13 2009 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:03:13 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) In-Reply-To: <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <001d01c9f8fd$061fa000$125ee000$@spb.ru> Hi Jim, Do you mean/expect MS Office Automation is/would be a PITA within .NET? The fact/my experience is that MS Office Automation is more smooth when doing it from within .NET - especially using VB.NET as it allows to use late binding very similar to VBA/VB6. I have had experience porting a set of advanced MS Excel 2003 Add-ins to VB.NET 2005: those add-ins started to put MS Excel down because of usage of a lot of custom classes in them - porting to VB.NET was relatively straightforward by using VSTO. Everything got working well. And no MS Excel go down whatever advanced your VB.NET coding is... And BTW you do not need to use VSTO for Automation - the only thing, which is needed, is a set of Primary Interop Assemblies, which are freely available AFAIK. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) Hi Rusty: Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that integration? If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or conversion process. Now it is one or other. Jim <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4197 (20090629) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 16:09:01 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:09:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> > > Couple questions: > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." ========Whatever you agree on. > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? ========50 hours -- they pay you a second retainer. 10 hours -- YOU WIN!!!! A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for a one-time payment. Unless you both agree, a retainer isn't generally refundable. However, you'd not let that be a deal breaker with a good client and in this case, it really wouldn't be necessary -- kind of moot really. It's the one-timers or the guys that call you infrequently where a retainer works to your advantage. Susan H. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Jun 29 16:11:14 2009 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:11:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access 2 007) Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A47@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Well, there is VSTO that lets you do Office Automation from within Visual Studio. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vsto/default.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/vsto/ It not that the other tools aren't available, and from the little bit I've spent looking at VB/C# .NET, they are really good tools. It's the years of development we have in Access applications and we're looking at the time we're going to have to spend porting them over to something different, so yes, a tool to do a conversion would be really cool. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) Hi Rusty: Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that integration? If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or conversion process. Now it is one or other. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) -----Original Message----- From: Rusty Hammond Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) I guess I don't see the upgrade costs to Access 2007 as a problem for the client. With the 2007 runtime being a free download, I'm the only one that needs to upgrade to Access 2007. I do agree there is a lot more cost to me in time spent getting up to speed on/converting to 2007 and that's hard to go to the client and say "it took me X number of hours to figure out how to to do this in the new version, so I'm going to bill you for that" when they already have a working application in 2003. So as a developer I have to decide where my time is best spent, learning .Net or Access 2007. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2007) Hi William, A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is a good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't originally plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use the system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or VB.Net? My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on Access2007) Dan ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay him to play with :) ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert his website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it ...but then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party ...so I wound up doing it myself ...never again. ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to be all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client was happy. ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when a client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I started moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client wanted a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and the sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of upgrading to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access and Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim glow :) ...hth William ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Jun 29 16:15:42 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:15:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A492A51.5090007@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A492677.1030002@nanaimo.ark.com> <4A492A51.5090007@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A492EFE.8070500@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John You missed my point, .net is not the long term solution, it is another marketing ploy. I will bet you money that if it takes off in any substantial form with many, many devlopers signing on, it will no longer be free. You are absolutely correct in your comments about a company that abandons their core people (developers) for a program they have decided to develop to meet marketing/sales needs with flash and dash. jwcolby wrote: >ROTFL. > >No gasket blown. > >Of course .net is the long term solution. I have enjoyed the ride though. Once I got good at >Access it could do a lot of stuff VERY quickly. My framework allowed me to do even more, even more >quickly. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >Tony Septav wrote: > > >>Hey All >>John you are going to blow a gasket. >>What is all this crying and whining about Access 2007. Gratious MS has >>given developers free use of MS SQL and VB.net. What more could you ask >>for. Leave MS Access 2007 alone and enjoy your freebies. MS hasn't >>forgotten you. Just kidding. Same player new game. >> >> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 16:29:59 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:29:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <61E6A261A42B4FFA9321C8AD45C1C87A@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> <4a491bf3.0a1ad00a.3709.4cda@mx.google.com> <61E6A261A42B4FFA9321C8AD45C1C87A@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4a49325a.0a1ad00a.3709.66fe@mx.google.com> William: You will be pleased to know that I have just saved you from committing murder and suffering a 150 jail sentence. I went to my BE. Opened it and Encoded it. Copied it to the main BE and ran the FE. Tried a few things with no probs. Absolutely no difference whatsoever that I can determine within a few minutes (But it is not a runtime MDE - that might make a diff) My BE is password protected and Encoded and sits within a TrueCrypt file. Wow! Sometime i just amaze myself...not easy to do... Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: 29 June 2009 21:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 ...if they have access to all the table data, they can run their own queries. ...I could encrypt the be such that only the mde could access it but that's a rpita ...its simpler just to eliminate the power user William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > William, a question. > If you have an MDE (which I know you use) and you encrypt the BE, can they > still run active queries via "the power user"? > > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 29 June 2009 20:43 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > "Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of > work because it is useless." JC > > ...its worse than that ...you have to break their bad habits ...you have > to > pretty much kill their power user ...and if I can't get a new client to > agree to runtime only installs with mdes up front, I don't take the job > ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user > with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "jwcolby" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:17 AM > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >> > see as someone already >> said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >> >> LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want to >> keep us believing they >> care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they >> have > >> a database project to do >> (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on >> Access, but in the end they want >> to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. >> >> NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS >> truly won't care, won't make >> any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they won't >> need us to sell Access >> anymore. >> >> In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to somehow >> convince everyone buying >> office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT >> (develop a database). In >> order to do that it has to be... >> >> 1) Pretty >> 2) Look the same as the other office apps >> 3) Pretty >> 4) Look the same as the other office apps >> 5) Pretty >> . >> .continue infinitely downward >> . >> >> Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether >> they need it, and EVERYONE >> knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and >> LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to >> use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need it, >> and NOBODY in their office >> knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So MS >> wants to make it DO >> SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think >> they can somehow use it, and >> thus BUY IT. >> >> I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing >> department. They spend millions >> convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 >> months in and can't build a >> database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have to >> trash their six months of >> work because it is useless. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Martin Reid wrote: >>> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually touch >>> the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars already >>> in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of >>> it > >>> in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every >>> opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work with >>> Access every day. >>> >>> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >>> see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> Martin WP Reid >>> Information Services >>> The Library at Queen's >>> Tel : 02890976174 >>> Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 16:46:22 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:46:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Ping IP In-Reply-To: <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <7AF0460C454D472AB7D6E6AC37A4AB5F@HAL9005>, <6D5DEE38A6FF41A0B3557D8B2E96C25F@HAL9005>, <7E02B06E41E5404589EDDDA2BAA1C5A86BDD8F@sanex101.nciinc.com> <4A2445EB.1387.7C03644@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a493631.1c05d00a.6abf.0df0@mx.google.com> John: Does this description sound what you need? Ping a range of IP numbers to find out what numbers are in use, or what numbers answer within the set time. Use it to find out what parts of your network are slower then others and maybe you even need to take a closer look at them. Adjustable time out, bytes to send, start and end node. Save the results of the sweep as csv and import them into a database. If so, go to http://www.freedownloadscenter.com/Network_and_Internet/Misc__Networking_Too ls/Ping_War.html Free as far as I can tell. Haven't used it. Max From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 17:05:25 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:05:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." "The retainer billing rate begins upon our receipt of a check for the number of hours quoted and ends upon consumption of the hours purchased or 90 days after date of receipt of your check, whichever is first." ...I've never had to use the expiry date but its there so that clients don't get lazy ...its just part of the deal to get the discount rates 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if they want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? ...I offer them a block of hours in 30/60/90/120 hour increments ...its their choice, not mine. ...but I also offer a further discount from normal billing with each larger increment ...not much but the psychology is there and in their face ...I monitor their hour consumption and always give them a new bill before their hours have expired ...less than 30 hours just isn't worth it for me ...note: You might want to reread the old dba newsletter ...I did a business column in the first edition that covered pricing strategies, most of which still applies even though its years old now ...now that I think about it I really should delete it ...I was inundated by questions at the time and never made the mistake of listening to Susan's entreaties to write another. ...its not that I mind questions, just that I hate answering the same thing over and over :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:57 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > Hi William - now I'm really hooked! > > Couple questions: > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? > > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...you never know until you ask, eh ...if I do work for a client on a > pretty > > regular basis, I now suggest the retainer basis to him ...I give him a > substantial hourly discount and bill him for 30/60/90/120 hours "upfront" > ...bill is due when submitted ...if he doesn't pay promptly, all hours > worked are at regular rates. > > ...it levels my income flow considerably, I never have to dun an otherwise > good customer, and ...think about it ...the client is more inclined to > actually use you if he's already paid for your time ...and if you put an > expiration date on the unused retainer, what used to be the most difficult > part of the sell now becomes much easier. > > ...not every client is a prospect ...but since I almost never do any fixed > fee work ...it works for more than you'd think. > > ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered > working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we > discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:20 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: > PollonAccess2007)> Hi William, >> >> A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. >> >> The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access >> is > >> a >> good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't >> originally >> plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use >> the >> system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or >> VB.Net? >> My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also >> uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >> Access2007) >> >> Dan >> >> ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay >> him to play with :) >> >> ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert >> his >> >> website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his >> Access >> app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with >> Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it >> ...but >> >> then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to >> use >> and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party >> ...so >> I wound up doing it myself ...never again. >> >> ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp >> development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely >> ...so >> in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just >> released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS >> Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to >> be >> >> all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client >> was >> happy. >> >> ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on >> retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when >> a >> client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I >> started >> moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new >> stuff >> in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client >> wanted >> >> a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the >> majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and >> the >> >> sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy >> >> ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of >> upgrading >> >> to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot >> of >> money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating >> the >> screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my >> case, >> it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up >> with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access >> and >> >> Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. >> >> ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its >> like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and >> eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a >> dim >> glow :) >> >> ...hth >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dan Waters" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >> Access2007) >> >>> William, >>> >>> I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice >>> tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS >>> 2008 a tool that developers will like. >>> >>> But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to >>> pay >>> you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could >>> sure >>> use some pointers! >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >>> Hindman >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) >>> >>> ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the >>> Access >>> >>> Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group >>> which >>> was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most >>> of >>> the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that >>> everything >>> would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that >>> they >>> could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years >>> but >>> never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems >>> ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt >>> every >>> time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back >>> through >>> those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. >>> >>> ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the >>> developer >>> >>> promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE >>> product >>> by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new >>> dao >>> engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros >>> ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for >>> users >>> >>> ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody >>> cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( >>> >>> ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid >>> of >>> such silly stuff, eh >>> >>> ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real >>> databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh >>> ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! >>> ...look >>> >>> everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office >>> product, it does. >>> >>> ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access >>> 97 >>> until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with >>> Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t >>> they >>> did with Access 2007 >>> >>> ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 >>> will >>> give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and >>> apparently >>> no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise >>> to >>> fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version >>> ...yeah, >>> right :( >>> >>> ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net >>> pool >>> >>> ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! >>> ...Visual >>> Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never >>> will >>> be >>> >>> ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be >>> dragged >>> away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so >>> like >> >>> I >>> >>> said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually >>> like developers. >>> >>> ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) >>> >>> William >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jim Lawrence" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >>>> SAME >>>> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by >>>> doing >>>> development work, have the same song book. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >>>> weeks >>>> required to figure out >>>> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle >>>> memory) >>>> with the previous version? >>>> >>>> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >>>> earn >>>> all of the money for my >>>> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to >>>> spend >>>> the time to completely >>>> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that >>>> and >>>> too >>>> bad for me. >>>> >>>> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >>>> accelerator as as a joystick in >>>> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights >>>> as >>>> a >>>> knee switch, the >>>> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... >>>> maybe >>>> not?) THAT is precisely >>>> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >>>> >>>> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all >>>> of >>>> the hot keys, all of the >>>> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >>>> that, >>>> we programmed it to >>>> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >>>> "sharepoint >>>> server will make it all >>>> better" crapola, it changes. >>>> >>>> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >>>> POINT >>>> of moving everything >>>> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >>>> to >>>> allow the programmer to >>>> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >>>> "sharepoint will make it all >>>> better" crap! >>>> >>>> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of >>>> all >>>> the >>>> other Office >>>> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >>>> right. >>>> It makes sense for those >>>> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I >>>> will >>>> take a pass on commenting >>>> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >>>> and >>>> Excel. Well whoopty >>>> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >>>> turn >>>> off to get the ACTUAL >>>> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >>>> >>>> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >>>> what >>>> 3rd normal form is and >>>> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" >>>> what >>>> a >>>> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >>>> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... >>>> I >>>> could go on and on. >>>> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >>>> CONSISTENT >>>> manner, and the USER >>>> hasn't a clue. >>>> >>>> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >>>> remember. >>>> Everything is a list >>>> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server >>>> guys, >>>> the >>>> ORACLE guys. Tell that >>>> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >>>> >>>> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >>>> with >>>> Policy holder, policy, >>>> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >>>> great >>>> grandchild) and that is >>>> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >>>> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >>>> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >>>> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >>>> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >>>> magically not be needed I assume >>>> with sharepoint server? >>>> >>>> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >>>> makes >>>> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >>>> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I >>>> have >>>> been telling MS about are >>>> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have >>>> a >>>> ton >>>> of magical glitz and >>>> glitter. >>>> >>>> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >>>> general response to this >>>> thread that I am not alone? >>>> >>>> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access >>>> for >>>> a >>>> living. And now... I >>>> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >>>> are >>>> refusing to move in >>>> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it >>>> is >>>> "better". >>>> >>>> My ASS! >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> OK, I am calm now... >>>> >>>> Sharepoint? >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Schapel wrote: >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>>>> >>>>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) >>>>>> on >>>>>> how to turn it off. >>>>> >>>>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>>>> think >>>> >>>>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the >>>>> point >>>>> of >>>> >>>>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >>>> off", >>>>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to >>>>> what >>>>> you're on about here. >>>>> >>>>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>>>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >>>> learning >>>>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would >>>>> be >>>>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>>>> >>>>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 17:12:23 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:12:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <4a49325a.0a1ad00a.3709.66fe@mx.google.com> Message-ID: ...lol ...I still have a printout of your post on encrypting the be ...I read it through and printed it intending to try it out ...but you know how that goes ...I have a huge stack of "good ideas" printouts that my wife keeps threatening to trash :( William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:29 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > William: > > You will be pleased to know that I have just saved you from committing > murder and suffering a 150 jail sentence. > > I went to my BE. Opened it and Encoded it. Copied it to the main BE and > ran > the FE. Tried a few things with no probs. > > Absolutely no difference whatsoever that I can determine within a few > minutes (But it is not a runtime MDE - that might make a diff) > > My BE is password protected and Encoded and sits within a TrueCrypt file. > > Wow! Sometime i just amaze myself...not easy to do... > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: 29 June 2009 21:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > ...if they have access to all the table data, they can run their own > queries. > ...I could encrypt the be such that only the mde could access it but > that's > a rpita > ...its simpler just to eliminate the power user > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Max Wanadoo" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:54 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > >> William, a question. >> If you have an MDE (which I know you use) and you encrypt the BE, can >> they >> still run active queries via "the power user"? >> >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: 29 June 2009 20:43 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >> "Unfortunately I have to trash their six months of >> work because it is useless." JC >> >> ...its worse than that ...you have to break their bad habits ...you have >> to >> pretty much kill their power user ...and if I can't get a new client to >> agree to runtime only installs with mdes up front, I don't take the job >> ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user >> with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "jwcolby" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:17 AM >> To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >> >>> > I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you >>> > can >>> > see as someone already >>> said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >>> >>> LOL, yep. To be honest, I don't believe they care, at all. They want >>> to >>> keep us believing they >>> care because at this point nobody buys Office with Access unless they >>> have >> >>> a database project to do >>> (or already have a real Access application), and we sell clients on >>> Access, but in the end they want >>> to sell Access to everybody that buys Office, a MUCH bigger pool. >>> >>> NOTICE, that once everyone buys Access as part of the package, then MS >>> truly won't care, won't make >>> any effort to even convince us that they care about us because they >>> won't >>> need us to sell Access >>> anymore. >>> >>> In the meantime, in order to sell Access to everyone they need to >>> somehow >>> convince everyone buying >>> office that Access is user friendly, they need it, and THEY CAN DO IT >>> (develop a database). In >>> order to do that it has to be... >>> >>> 1) Pretty >>> 2) Look the same as the other office apps >>> 3) Pretty >>> 4) Look the same as the other office apps >>> 5) Pretty >>> . >>> .continue infinitely downward >>> . >>> >>> Remember that the person buying office knows Word, and they know whether >>> they need it, and EVERYONE >>> knows how to use it. They know Excel and know whether they need it, and >>> LOTS OF PEOPLE know how to >>> use it. They haven't a clue about Access and don't know if they need >>> it, >>> and NOBODY in their office >>> knows how to use it (and never will, at a development tool level). So >>> MS >>> wants to make it DO >>> SOMETHING (anything!) so that people will start using it, see it, think >>> they can somehow use it, and >>> thus BUY IT. >>> >>> I have a standing joke that says that MS is my private marketing >>> department. They spend millions >>> convincing people that they can build databases, then when they get 6 >>> months in and can't build a >>> database, they call me to build them a database. Unfortunately I have >>> to >>> trash their six months of >>> work because it is useless. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Martin Reid wrote: >>>> One of the problems I have is that by the time you get to actually >>>> touch >>>> the software its to late. They have invested millions of dollars >>>> already >>>> in the new version and no one is going to actually change that much of >>>> it >> >>>> in response to anything I put forward. I also make clear at every >>>> opportunity the comments of those on this list who actually do work >>>> with >>>> Access every day. >>>> >>>> I do have direct contact and I do put your comments to them. As you can >>>> see as someone already said they have a listening issue!!!!!! >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> Martin WP Reid >>>> Information Services >>>> The Library at Queen's >>>> Tel : 02890976174 >>>> Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Jun 29 17:12:53 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:12:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: <5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> <5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> Message-ID: <2B5802F2519141E0B26FA0E75EF0AAB2@danwaters> What would an example be for 1)? Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > > Couple questions: > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." ========Whatever you agree on. > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? ========50 hours -- they pay you a second retainer. 10 hours -- YOU WIN!!!! A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for a one-time payment. Unless you both agree, a retainer isn't generally refundable. However, you'd not let that be a deal breaker with a good client and in this case, it really wouldn't be necessary -- kind of moot really. It's the one-timers or the guys that call you infrequently where a retainer works to your advantage. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Mon Jun 29 17:16:21 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:16:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> <5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> Message-ID: <87A672FB7FD14F4B9C4702786828F4CB@jislaptopdev> ...short, sweet, and on the money :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:09 PM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) >> >> Couple questions: >> >> 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." > > ========Whatever you agree on. >> >> 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if >> they >> want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? > > ========50 hours -- they pay you a second retainer. 10 hours -- YOU > WIN!!!! > > A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be > there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for > a > one-time payment. Unless you both agree, a retainer isn't generally > refundable. However, you'd not let that be a deal breaker with a good > client > and in this case, it really wouldn't be necessary -- kind of moot really. > It's the one-timers or the guys that call you infrequently where a > retainer > works to your advantage. > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Mon Jun 29 17:20:21 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:20:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <9FD8EBE34A9D47868667E9AF3E54B9DA@danwaters> Aaah! I was thinking in terms of XX Hours/month! I'll look for the old newsletter. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." "The retainer billing rate begins upon our receipt of a check for the number of hours quoted and ends upon consumption of the hours purchased or 90 days after date of receipt of your check, whichever is first." ...I've never had to use the expiry date but its there so that clients don't get lazy ...its just part of the deal to get the discount rates 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if they want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? ...I offer them a block of hours in 30/60/90/120 hour increments ...its their choice, not mine. ...but I also offer a further discount from normal billing with each larger increment ...not much but the psychology is there and in their face ...I monitor their hour consumption and always give them a new bill before their hours have expired ...less than 30 hours just isn't worth it for me ...note: You might want to reread the old dba newsletter ...I did a business column in the first edition that covered pricing strategies, most of which still applies even though its years old now ...now that I think about it I really should delete it ...I was inundated by questions at the time and never made the mistake of listening to Susan's entreaties to write another. ...its not that I mind questions, just that I hate answering the same thing over and over :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:57 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > Hi William - now I'm really hooked! > > Couple questions: > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? > > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...you never know until you ask, eh ...if I do work for a client on a > pretty > > regular basis, I now suggest the retainer basis to him ...I give him a > substantial hourly discount and bill him for 30/60/90/120 hours "upfront" > ...bill is due when submitted ...if he doesn't pay promptly, all hours > worked are at regular rates. > > ...it levels my income flow considerably, I never have to dun an otherwise > good customer, and ...think about it ...the client is more inclined to > actually use you if he's already paid for your time ...and if you put an > expiration date on the unused retainer, what used to be the most difficult > part of the sell now becomes much easier. > > ...not every client is a prospect ...but since I almost never do any fixed > fee work ...it works for more than you'd think. > > ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered > working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we > discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:20 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: > PollonAccess2007)> Hi William, >> >> A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. >> >> The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access >> is > >> a >> good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't >> originally >> plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use >> the >> system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or >> VB.Net? >> My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also >> uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >> Access2007) >> >> Dan >> >> ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay >> him to play with :) >> >> ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert >> his >> >> website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his >> Access >> app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with >> Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it >> ...but >> >> then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to >> use >> and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party >> ...so >> I wound up doing it myself ...never again. >> >> ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp >> development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely >> ...so >> in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just >> released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS >> Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to >> be >> >> all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client >> was >> happy. >> >> ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on >> retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when >> a >> client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I >> started >> moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new >> stuff >> in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client >> wanted >> >> a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the >> majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and >> the >> >> sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy >> >> ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of >> upgrading >> >> to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot >> of >> money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating >> the >> screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my >> case, >> it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up >> with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access >> and >> >> Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. >> >> ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its >> like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and >> eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a >> dim >> glow :) >> >> ...hth >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dan Waters" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >> Access2007) >> >>> William, >>> >>> I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice >>> tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS >>> 2008 a tool that developers will like. >>> >>> But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to >>> pay >>> you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could >>> sure >>> use some pointers! >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >>> Hindman >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) >>> >>> ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the >>> Access >>> >>> Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group >>> which >>> was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most >>> of >>> the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that >>> everything >>> would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that >>> they >>> could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years >>> but >>> never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems >>> ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt >>> every >>> time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back >>> through >>> those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. >>> >>> ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the >>> developer >>> >>> promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE >>> product >>> by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new >>> dao >>> engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros >>> ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for >>> users >>> >>> ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody >>> cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( >>> >>> ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid >>> of >>> such silly stuff, eh >>> >>> ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real >>> databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh >>> ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! >>> ...look >>> >>> everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office >>> product, it does. >>> >>> ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access >>> 97 >>> until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with >>> Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t >>> they >>> did with Access 2007 >>> >>> ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 >>> will >>> give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and >>> apparently >>> no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise >>> to >>> fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version >>> ...yeah, >>> right :( >>> >>> ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net >>> pool >>> >>> ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! >>> ...Visual >>> Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never >>> will >>> be >>> >>> ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be >>> dragged >>> away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so >>> like >> >>> I >>> >>> said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually >>> like developers. >>> >>> ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) >>> >>> William >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jim Lawrence" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >>>> SAME >>>> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by >>>> doing >>>> development work, have the same song book. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >>>> weeks >>>> required to figure out >>>> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle >>>> memory) >>>> with the previous version? >>>> >>>> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >>>> earn >>>> all of the money for my >>>> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to >>>> spend >>>> the time to completely >>>> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that >>>> and >>>> too >>>> bad for me. >>>> >>>> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >>>> accelerator as as a joystick in >>>> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights >>>> as >>>> a >>>> knee switch, the >>>> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... >>>> maybe >>>> not?) THAT is precisely >>>> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >>>> >>>> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all >>>> of >>>> the hot keys, all of the >>>> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >>>> that, >>>> we programmed it to >>>> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >>>> "sharepoint >>>> server will make it all >>>> better" crapola, it changes. >>>> >>>> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >>>> POINT >>>> of moving everything >>>> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >>>> to >>>> allow the programmer to >>>> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >>>> "sharepoint will make it all >>>> better" crap! >>>> >>>> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of >>>> all >>>> the >>>> other Office >>>> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >>>> right. >>>> It makes sense for those >>>> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I >>>> will >>>> take a pass on commenting >>>> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >>>> and >>>> Excel. Well whoopty >>>> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >>>> turn >>>> off to get the ACTUAL >>>> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >>>> >>>> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >>>> what >>>> 3rd normal form is and >>>> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" >>>> what >>>> a >>>> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >>>> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... >>>> I >>>> could go on and on. >>>> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >>>> CONSISTENT >>>> manner, and the USER >>>> hasn't a clue. >>>> >>>> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >>>> remember. >>>> Everything is a list >>>> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server >>>> guys, >>>> the >>>> ORACLE guys. Tell that >>>> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >>>> >>>> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >>>> with >>>> Policy holder, policy, >>>> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >>>> great >>>> grandchild) and that is >>>> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >>>> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >>>> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >>>> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >>>> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >>>> magically not be needed I assume >>>> with sharepoint server? >>>> >>>> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >>>> makes >>>> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >>>> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I >>>> have >>>> been telling MS about are >>>> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have >>>> a >>>> ton >>>> of magical glitz and >>>> glitter. >>>> >>>> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >>>> general response to this >>>> thread that I am not alone? >>>> >>>> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access >>>> for >>>> a >>>> living. And now... I >>>> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >>>> are >>>> refusing to move in >>>> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it >>>> is >>>> "better". >>>> >>>> My ASS! >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> OK, I am calm now... >>>> >>>> Sharepoint? >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Schapel wrote: >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>>>> >>>>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) >>>>>> on >>>>>> how to turn it off. >>>>> >>>>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>>>> think >>>> >>>>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the >>>>> point >>>>> of >>>> >>>>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >>>> off", >>>>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to >>>>> what >>>>> you're on about here. >>>>> >>>>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>>>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >>>> learning >>>>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would >>>>> be >>>>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>>>> >>>>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 18:05:20 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: > ...its not that I mind questions, just that I hate answering the same > thing > over and over :) ======If you write it once, we'll publish it. Then, when you get questions, you can just send them a link. How efficient and smart is that? SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE!!! ;) Susan H. From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 18:07:14 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:07:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev><5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> <2B5802F2519141E0B26FA0E75EF0AAB2@danwaters> Message-ID: <5B4F81920B7D4EE7BEAD9872B32B72E2@SusanOne> > What would an example be for 1)? =====Dan, that really depends on what you're doing for the client. In my case, I might make it as long as a year because a lot of what I do is research and recommendation. If it's an ongoing project, you might want to limit to quarters or even 30 day increments. Susan H. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 18:18:11 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:18:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net In-Reply-To: <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <05915C2D37DE40129DA9B72F91885447@creativesystemdesigns.com> Sorry, but I may be reading this the wrong... but I am just rolling on the floor with your comments... you are making my day. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net Dan, >I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say And I think the reason we are upset is that they CLAIM to be listening and then they polish their toolbars. Just come out and tell the developer community "We don't give a rat's ass about what you think is important and we aren't going to support you. MOVE TO .NET" and I think the response to them would be entirely different. Nobody likes to be jerked around year after year, promises made and broken year after year. I think the developer community is jaded, we know that WE are of zero importance to Microsoft (in the Access / Office universe). And yet they (and their MVPs) consistently CLAIM otherwise. There are a whole ton of people on this list who do some pretty powerful development work in Access and yet to my knowledge nobody here has ever been asked for an opinion (other than perhaps a certain MVP? who loooooooves the new product...) , nor have our opinions ever made one iota of positive difference in the product. Too busy polishing the friggin toolbars AFAICT. When I develop an application for my client, THEY drive what I do for them. WE don't drive what Microsoft does for Access, ergo WE are not the client. Now if they would just quit TELLING us we are the (or even A) client... We clearly are not. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi Shamil - > > I agree with you on MS business model. I think they've realized that to > plan for many years ahead to maintain two separate, but not that different > (VB.Net vs. VBA), programming methodologies isn't in their long-term > business interest. Everyone should remember that MS has discontinued > issuing new licenses for VBA. > > MS is a profit-seeking company, so they will change as needed to get the > most they can. I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are > the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say, > like we do with the government. If MS was a smaller company, we'd just say, > "That's business!" > > Dan -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 18:20:34 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:20:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4A48D4CF.9050800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne> <4A48D4CF.9050800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <69F8046998F9401C8D0BFE16D53B31BE@creativesystemdesigns.com> The whole thing is Susan's fault... she threw a handgrenaide into the chicken coop and just sat back and watched the carnage. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Well you sure stirred up a hornet's nest. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: >> As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are >> listening >> I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and >> that >> filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) >> developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own >> business... >> >> Microsoft do you hear me? :) > > ======FWIW, what I meant when I made that comment was that MS is not > following my blog, nor do they consult me about anything. I doubt MS even > knows I exist. > > Susan H. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Mon Jun 29 18:13:58 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:13:58 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D03A@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> "Interesting to note that VBA will now be included in Mac Office, so... still on the rise." Now I find this really curious as I recall reading many pages from MS Mac Office dev team explaining in great detail about how sad they were they had to kill off VBA, but it just wasn't technically possible to keep it on the Mac platform moving forward. There were blogs, forums, emails and all kinds of chatter about this. but it always came back to "it wasn't technically feasible anymore" and VBA was dead on the Mac Platform. And then suddenly VBA was back in the next release - and without much fan-fare? Now what was all that about?? Did removing VBA make enough existing customers angry enough to walk away in such numbers that the product was no longer viable? and was the whole "drop VBA from Office Mac" a beta run for removing it from Windows Office? - one which seems to have had very bad commercial impact on the Mac product. still want some answers on this topic... cheers Darryl This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail immediately. Any confidentiality, privilege or copyright is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. It is your responsibility to check this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. No warranty is made that this material is free from computer virus or any other defect or error. Any loss/damage incurred by using this material is not the sender's responsibility. 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From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 18:26:02 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:26:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4a48f828.0702d00a.79bc.3f6b@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a48b6a4.0a1ad00a.6c6a.4703@mx.google.com> <126E0425564C4B6EA90410E36C5FAAF9@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4a48f828.0702d00a.79bc.3f6b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <989B2B7F72CB412C8A8FB97D58B9A2BA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Max; that sounds very fine idea... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files via EatBloat (don?t know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded control characters that may be causing the problem. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 29 June 2009 18:12 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Hi Max: No reference, nothing outside the usual other than a standard set of API calls. The MDB was working fine for a while and now it has decided to misbehave. There must be something that has triggered its change of attitude. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Off the top of my head Jim, If you have a lot of References does this count against the overall count ? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: 29 June 2009 13:17 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access error Hi All: I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen before. The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. The error is as follows: Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an MDE file.? Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable number of TableID references are created for each table.? The Microsoft Jet database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open TableIDs at one time.? Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, report, etc). There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an MDE.? However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if the database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, as many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. More information about this error message online. The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going through object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either stops or starts. If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve or better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 18:59:19 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:59:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net In-Reply-To: <05915C2D37DE40129DA9B72F91885447@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> <05915C2D37DE40129DA9B72F91885447@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A495557.4050401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Well, that is ok too I suppose. I have to assume that MS listens to you where they don't listen to me or even Martin Reid? Why don't you ask them to fix the damn bugs then. Help us out here. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Sorry, but I may be reading this the wrong... but I am just rolling on the > floor with your comments... you are making my day. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net > > Dan, > > >I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are the only choice > we have, so we believe > that we are entitled to have a say > > And I think the reason we are upset is that they CLAIM to be listening and > then they polish their > toolbars. > > Just come out and tell the developer community "We don't give a rat's ass > about what you think is > important and we aren't going to support you. MOVE TO .NET" and I think the > response to them would > be entirely different. > > Nobody likes to be jerked around year after year, promises made and broken > year after year. > > I think the developer community is jaded, we know that WE are of zero > importance to Microsoft (in > the Access / Office universe). And yet they (and their MVPs) consistently > CLAIM otherwise. > > There are a whole ton of people on this list who do some pretty powerful > development work in Access > and yet to my knowledge nobody here has ever been asked for an opinion > (other than perhaps a certain > MVP? who loooooooves the new product...) , nor have our opinions ever made > one iota of positive > difference in the product. > > Too busy polishing the friggin toolbars AFAICT. > > When I develop an application for my client, THEY drive what I do for them. > WE don't drive what > Microsoft does for Access, ergo WE are not the client. Now if they would > just quit TELLING us we > are the (or even A) client... We clearly are not. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Hi Shamil - >> >> I agree with you on MS business model. I think they've realized that to >> plan for many years ahead to maintain two separate, but not that different >> (VB.Net vs. VBA), programming methodologies isn't in their long-term >> business interest. Everyone should remember that MS has discontinued >> issuing new licenses for VBA. >> >> MS is a profit-seeking company, so they will change as needed to get the >> most they can. I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are >> the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say, >> like we do with the government. If MS was a smaller company, we'd just > say, >> "That's business!" >> >> Dan > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 20:13:10 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:13:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: Well William or Max: Never having used the EatBloat MDB what would be the best way to launch and use the form? Also which reference library do I attach to get such functionality as: Office.FileDialog. Check 4 website and acquired 3 different answers. Attach a reference call to a specific package ??? or add the appropriate API calls? TIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Jim ...no, the switch setting is what I use ...its the process that is a bit more complex than simply running the decompile ...the decompile switch itself only works reliably if you follow the steps before and after using it ...in other words it only puts your app in a state that will result in a clean build "IF" you walk though each step. ...its always been confusing to me ...sometimes it appears to work by itself ...other times not ...the only consistent decompile results I've achieved come when I follow the complete process, not just right click on "decompile" ...besides which, I should have mentioned that I also use Max's EatBloat app when even decompile doesn't work for me ...but I've said it so many times here people think Max is paying me off :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > Hi William: > > I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the > decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other > than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have > been > using. I have not really checked it over. > > Is there any more switches than just > 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe > c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Jim > > ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled > ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, > ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy > ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers > ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a > decompile > > ...my process is: > > Turn Off CompactOnClose > Decompile > Exit > Open w/Shift > Compact w/Shift > Compile > Compact > > ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself > often does nothing real. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: [AccessD] Access error > >> Hi All: >> >> I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen >> before. >> >> The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the >> objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code >> modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is >> relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. >> >> The error is as follows: >> >> >> Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database >> >> This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an >> MDE >> file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable >> number >> of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet >> database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open >> TableIDs >> at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this >> limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, >> report, etc). >> There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet >> database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an >> MDE. >> However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if >> the >> database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, >> as >> many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. >> >> More information about this error message online. >> >> >> The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going >> through >> object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either >> stops or starts. >> >> If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve >> or >> better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 20:37:36 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:37:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.com> You know what I want to see is a database comparison tool that uses eatbloat to export every object, then do a comparison between each file from the two databases being compared. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Well William or Max: > > Never having used the EatBloat MDB what would be the best way to launch and > use the form? > > Also which reference library do I attach to get such functionality as: > Office.FileDialog. Check 4 website and acquired 3 different answers. Attach > a reference call to a specific package ??? or add the appropriate API calls? > > TIA > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:33 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Jim > > ...no, the switch setting is what I use ...its the process that is a bit > more complex than simply running the decompile > ...the decompile switch itself only works reliably if you follow the steps > before and after using it ...in other words it only puts your app in a state > > that will result in a clean build "IF" you walk though each step. > ...its always been confusing to me ...sometimes it appears to work by itself > > ...other times not ...the only consistent decompile results I've achieved > come when I follow the complete process, not just right click on "decompile" > > ...besides which, I should have mentioned that I also use Max's EatBloat app > > when even decompile doesn't work for me ...but I've said it so many times > here people think Max is paying me off :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:21 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > >> Hi William: >> >> I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the >> decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other >> than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have >> been >> using. I have not really checked it over. >> >> Is there any more switches than just >> 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe >> c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error >> >> Jim >> >> ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled >> ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, >> ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy >> ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers >> ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a >> decompile >> >> ...my process is: >> >> Turn Off CompactOnClose >> Decompile >> Exit >> Open w/Shift >> Compact w/Shift >> Compile >> Compact >> >> ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself >> often does nothing real. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jim Lawrence" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Access error >> >>> Hi All: >>> >>> I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen >>> before. >>> >>> The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the >>> objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code >>> modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is >>> relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. >>> >>> The error is as follows: >>> >>> >>> Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database >>> >>> This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an >>> MDE >>> file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable >>> number >>> of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet >>> database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open >>> TableIDs >>> at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this >>> limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, >>> report, etc). >>> There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet >>> database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an >>> MDE. >>> However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if >>> the >>> database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, >>> as >>> many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. >>> >>> More information about this error message online. >>> >>> >>> The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going >>> through >>> object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either >>> stops or starts. >>> >>> If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve >>> or >>> better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 21:36:04 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:36:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) In-Reply-To: References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi William: I have done a lot of graphics through spreadsheets... a number of my users like excel and like to see a spreadsheet or two in which to play. There is no harm in that as they are just results. A couple of years ago I built a whole dynamic spreadsheet with a number of forms and recordsets, with ranges instead of tables for a Real-estate company back East. That was real hard work as apposed to Access as much of the data had to be validated with each command as users could screw with the data. As per emails there is some more work coming up...? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) Jim ...the only Office automation I was ever guilty of was Word merges and e-mail which can be done with .net. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:16 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2007)> Hi Rusty: > > Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office > automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that > integration? > > If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or > conversion process. Now it is one or other. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 > 007) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty Hammond > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:37 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > I guess I don't see the upgrade costs to Access 2007 as a problem for the > client. With the 2007 runtime being a free download, I'm the only one > that > needs to upgrade to Access 2007. > > I do agree there is a lot more cost to me in time spent getting up to > speed > on/converting to 2007 and that's hard to go to the client and say "it took > me X number of hours to figure out how to to do this in the new version, > so > I'm going to bill you for that" when they already have a working > application > in 2003. So as a developer I have to decide where my time is best spent, > learning .Net or Access 2007. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:21 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > Hi William, > > A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. > > The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is > a > good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't > originally > plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use > the > system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or > VB.Net? > My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also > uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay > him to play with :) > > ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert > his > > website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access > app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with > Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it > ...but > > then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use > and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party > ...so > I wound up doing it myself ...never again. > > ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp > development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so > in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just > released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS > Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to > be > > all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client > was > happy. > > ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on > retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when > a > client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I > started > moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff > in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client > wanted > > a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the > majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and > the > > sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy > > ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of > upgrading > > to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of > money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the > screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, > it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up > with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access > and > > Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. > > ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its > like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and > eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim > glow :) > > ...hth > > William > > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 21:43:24 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:43:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) In-Reply-To: <001d01c9f8fd$061fa000$125ee000$@spb.ru> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> <001d01c9f8fd$061fa000$125ee000$@spb.ru> Message-ID: <69B0D28775A74C539762BCC9F7229FC4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Shamil: Quite the contrary. I would be very interested in seeing the porting process... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) Hi Jim, Do you mean/expect MS Office Automation is/would be a PITA within .NET? The fact/my experience is that MS Office Automation is more smooth when doing it from within .NET - especially using VB.NET as it allows to use late binding very similar to VBA/VB6. I have had experience porting a set of advanced MS Excel 2003 Add-ins to VB.NET 2005: those add-ins started to put MS Excel down because of usage of a lot of custom classes in them - porting to VB.NET was relatively straightforward by using VSTO. Everything got working well. And no MS Excel go down whatever advanced your VB.NET coding is... And BTW you do not need to use VSTO for Automation - the only thing, which is needed, is a set of Primary Interop Assemblies, which are freely available AFAIK. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:16 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 007) Hi Rusty: Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that integration? If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or conversion process. Now it is one or other. Jim <<< snip >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4197 (20090629) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.esetnod32.ru -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au Mon Jun 29 21:46:34 2009 From: Darryl.Collins at coles.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:46:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) In-Reply-To: References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D03E@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> Generally this is how I work these days. The customer nearly always want an Excel based solution, but for security I usually store all the data in SQL Server and just pull into the workbook the recordset they want. Ideally you can just hook a Excel pivot table directly to a recordset if it is only reporting they are after. This gives the best of both worlds. The end user can present the data however they want, but your source data in nice and secure back in SQL Server where it cannot be tampered with easily. Often I just build it this way and show the clients. The clients are usually quick to see the advantages of this approach over the old way of doing things, especially when the Excel front end is secure, self repairing and their data cannot be lost, even if the workbook is totally destroyed. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, 30 June 2009 12:36 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) Hi William: I have done a lot of graphics through spreadsheets... a number of my users like excel and like to see a spreadsheet or two in which to play. There is no harm in that as they are just results. A couple of years ago I built a whole dynamic spreadsheet with a number of forms and recordsets, with ranges instead of tables for a Real-estate company back East. That was real hard work as apposed to Access as much of the data had to be validated with each command as users could screw with the data. As per emails there is some more work coming up...? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) Jim ...the only Office automation I was ever guilty of was Word merges and e-mail which can be done with .net. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:16 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2007)> Hi Rusty: > > Tough decision...build a stand-alone database in .Net and forget office > automation or stick with a dying product to be able to provide that > integration? > > If only MS would build .Net into Office and provide a temp fix, upgrade or > conversion process. Now it is one or other. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon Access2 > 007) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rusty Hammond > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:37 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > I guess I don't see the upgrade costs to Access 2007 as a problem for the > client. With the 2007 runtime being a free download, I'm the only one > that > needs to upgrade to Access 2007. > > I do agree there is a lot more cost to me in time spent getting up to > speed > on/converting to 2007 and that's hard to go to the client and say "it took > me X number of hours to figure out how to to do this in the new version, > so > I'm going to bill you for that" when they already have a working > application > in 2003. So as a developer I have to decide where my time is best spent, > learning .Net or Access 2007. > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:21 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > Hi William, > > A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. > > The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access is > a > good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't > originally > plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use > the > system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or > VB.Net? > My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also > uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. > > Thanks! > Dan > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay > him to play with :) > > ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert > his > > website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his Access > app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with > Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it > ...but > > then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to use > and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party > ...so > I wound up doing it myself ...never again. > > ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp > development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely ...so > in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just > released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS > Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to > be > > all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client > was > happy. > > ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on > retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when > a > client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I > started > moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new stuff > in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client > wanted > > a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the > majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and > the > > sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy > > ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of > upgrading > > to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot of > money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating the > screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my case, > it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up > with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access > and > > Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. > > ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its > like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and > eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a dim > glow :) > > ...hth > > William > > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This email and any attachments may contain privileged and confidential information and are intended for the named addressee only. 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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 21:49:20 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:49:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 007) In-Reply-To: References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4A497D30.1060606@colbyconsulting.com> Automation using Access as the base is cool because you can store code where it best fits. You can place modules into the spreadsheet to do the things like formatting of cells and the like, and call it a template, and you can place the code that does the talking to Excel in Access modules, even out in libraries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi William: > > I have done a lot of graphics through spreadsheets... a number of my users > like excel and like to see a spreadsheet or two in which to play. There is > no harm in that as they are just results. > > A couple of years ago I built a whole dynamic spreadsheet with a number of > forms and recordsets, with ranges instead of tables for a Real-estate > company back East. That was real hard work as apposed to Access as much of > the data had to be validated with each command as users could screw with the > data. As per emails there is some more work coming up...? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 > 007) > > Jim > > ...the only Office automation I was ever guilty of was Word merges and > e-mail which can be done with .net. > > William From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 22:38:31 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:38:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net In-Reply-To: <4A495557.4050401@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> <05915C2D37DE40129DA9B72F91885447@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A495557.4050401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My proximity to Redmond, Washington, does not help. Bill does not call me to his house any more and he is sort of out of it anyways nowadays. And you said it all better tha I could. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net LOL. Well, that is ok too I suppose. I have to assume that MS listens to you where they don't listen to me or even Martin Reid? Why don't you ask them to fix the damn bugs then. Help us out here. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Sorry, but I may be reading this the wrong... but I am just rolling on the > floor with your comments... you are making my day. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net > > Dan, > > >I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are the only choice > we have, so we believe > that we are entitled to have a say > > And I think the reason we are upset is that they CLAIM to be listening and > then they polish their > toolbars. > > Just come out and tell the developer community "We don't give a rat's ass > about what you think is > important and we aren't going to support you. MOVE TO .NET" and I think the > response to them would > be entirely different. > > Nobody likes to be jerked around year after year, promises made and broken > year after year. > > I think the developer community is jaded, we know that WE are of zero > importance to Microsoft (in > the Access / Office universe). And yet they (and their MVPs) consistently > CLAIM otherwise. > > There are a whole ton of people on this list who do some pretty powerful > development work in Access > and yet to my knowledge nobody here has ever been asked for an opinion > (other than perhaps a certain > MVP? who loooooooves the new product...) , nor have our opinions ever made > one iota of positive > difference in the product. > > Too busy polishing the friggin toolbars AFAICT. > > When I develop an application for my client, THEY drive what I do for them. > WE don't drive what > Microsoft does for Access, ergo WE are not the client. Now if they would > just quit TELLING us we > are the (or even A) client... We clearly are not. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> Hi Shamil - >> >> I agree with you on MS business model. I think they've realized that to >> plan for many years ahead to maintain two separate, but not that different >> (VB.Net vs. VBA), programming methodologies isn't in their long-term >> business interest. Everyone should remember that MS has discontinued >> issuing new licenses for VBA. >> >> MS is a profit-seeking company, so they will change as needed to get the >> most they can. I think the reason we get upset with them is that they are >> the only choice we have, so we believe that we are entitled to have a say, >> like we do with the government. If MS was a smaller company, we'd just > say, >> "That's business!" >> >> Dan > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 22:42:25 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:42:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: PollonAccess2 007) In-Reply-To: <4A497D30.1060606@colbyconsulting.com> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB7217006D78A3D@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <735AF4AB9B4F486D97971F8FABBFEE55@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A497D30.1060606@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I still have not giving up on getting things moved into a DB. One day MDB or MS SQL (express). Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: PollonAccess2 007) Automation using Access as the base is cool because you can store code where it best fits. You can place modules into the spreadsheet to do the things like formatting of cells and the like, and call it a template, and you can place the code that does the talking to Excel in Access modules, even out in libraries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi William: > > I have done a lot of graphics through spreadsheets... a number of my users > like excel and like to see a spreadsheet or two in which to play. There is > no harm in that as they are just results. > > A couple of years ago I built a whole dynamic spreadsheet with a number of > forms and recordsets, with ranges instead of tables for a Real-estate > company back East. That was real hard work as apposed to Access as much of > the data had to be validated with each command as users could screw with the > data. As per emails there is some more work coming up...? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net(was: Pollon Access2 > 007) > > Jim > > ...the only Office automation I was ever guilty of was Word merges and > e-mail which can be done with .net. > > William -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 22:57:21 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:57:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> Message-ID: <0C33FCF0993E42E29E33AEA0C3E1CAC2@creativesystemdesigns.com> Problem solved. I did not have the reference to 'Microsoft Office 11.0 Object Library'... simply enough solution. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Well William or Max: Never having used the EatBloat MDB what would be the best way to launch and use the form? Also which reference library do I attach to get such functionality as: Office.FileDialog. Check 4 website and acquired 3 different answers. Attach a reference call to a specific package ??? or add the appropriate API calls? TIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Jim ...no, the switch setting is what I use ...its the process that is a bit more complex than simply running the decompile ...the decompile switch itself only works reliably if you follow the steps before and after using it ...in other words it only puts your app in a state that will result in a clean build "IF" you walk though each step. ...its always been confusing to me ...sometimes it appears to work by itself ...other times not ...the only consistent decompile results I've achieved come when I follow the complete process, not just right click on "decompile" ...besides which, I should have mentioned that I also use Max's EatBloat app when even decompile doesn't work for me ...but I've said it so many times here people think Max is paying me off :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:21 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > Hi William: > > I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the > decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other > than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have > been > using. I have not really checked it over. > > Is there any more switches than just > 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe > c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Jim > > ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled > ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, > ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy > ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers > ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a > decompile > > ...my process is: > > Turn Off CompactOnClose > Decompile > Exit > Open w/Shift > Compact w/Shift > Compile > Compact > > ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself > often does nothing real. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: [AccessD] Access error > >> Hi All: >> >> I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen >> before. >> >> The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the >> objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code >> modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is >> relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. >> >> The error is as follows: >> >> >> Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database >> >> This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an >> MDE >> file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable >> number >> of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet >> database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open >> TableIDs >> at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this >> limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, >> report, etc). >> There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet >> database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an >> MDE. >> However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if >> the >> database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, >> as >> many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. >> >> More information about this error message online. >> >> >> The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going >> through >> object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either >> stops or starts. >> >> If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve >> or >> better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jun 29 22:58:55 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:58:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> <05915C2D37DE40129DA9B72F91885447@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A495557.4050401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A498D7F.7020400@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. I was just at his house the other day. Bill sent his jet into the Hickory regional airport to pick me up. They tell me it's the first time a 747 has ever landed their and they were holding their breath that it would get back off the ground. Of course they told me this AFTER I got back. Anyway, I had coffee with him and the wife. Just chit chat you know. He wanted to let me know that if I didn't lighten up I'd never make MSVP. He's such a nice guy, I have to say. He seemed really interested in my welfare. I tried to raise the bug issue thing but he just blew it off. Something about nobody listened to him either anymore (not that I really believe him). So I gave him some worthwhile tips on what charities to spend a little of that fund of his on. He also strong armed me for a couple of million $ donation. How can you say no to a guy like that? I guess my MSVP chances aren't too good now though, after this whole 2007 thing. 8( I really have to learn to keep my mouth shut. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > My proximity to Redmond, Washington, does not help. Bill does not call me to > his house any more and he is sort of out of it anyways nowadays. And you > said it all better tha I could. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net > > LOL. Well, that is ok too I suppose. > > I have to assume that MS listens to you where they don't listen to me or > even Martin Reid? Why > don't you ask them to fix the damn bugs then. Help us out here. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jun 29 23:56:15 2009 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:56:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net In-Reply-To: <4A498D7F.7020400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com> <157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters> <000701c9f89b$71f01ab0$55d05010$@spb.ru> <49E4CB9E699B493EA06348790246D83C@danwaters> <4A48D47B.9090106@colbyconsulting.com> <05915C2D37DE40129DA9B72F91885447@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4A495557.4050401@colbyconsulting.com> <4A498D7F.7020400@colbyconsu lting.com> Message-ID: <12F4CCD25C62476FBA4FAB0EF7846F03@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is about 50 years too late isn't it? Boat rockers are only respected postimiously... like artists. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net ROTFL. I was just at his house the other day. Bill sent his jet into the Hickory regional airport to pick me up. They tell me it's the first time a 747 has ever landed their and they were holding their breath that it would get back off the ground. Of course they told me this AFTER I got back. Anyway, I had coffee with him and the wife. Just chit chat you know. He wanted to let me know that if I didn't lighten up I'd never make MSVP. He's such a nice guy, I have to say. He seemed really interested in my welfare. I tried to raise the bug issue thing but he just blew it off. Something about nobody listened to him either anymore (not that I really believe him). So I gave him some worthwhile tips on what charities to spend a little of that fund of his on. He also strong armed me for a couple of million $ donation. How can you say no to a guy like that? I guess my MSVP chances aren't too good now though, after this whole 2007 thing. 8( I really have to learn to keep my mouth shut. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > My proximity to Redmond, Washington, does not help. Bill does not call me to > his house any more and he is sort of out of it anyways nowadays. And you > said it all better tha I could. ;-) > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net > > LOL. Well, that is ok too I suppose. > > I have to assume that MS listens to you where they don't listen to me or > even Martin Reid? Why > don't you ask them to fix the damn bugs then. Help us out here. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 00:21:31 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:21:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> Message-ID: <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> Talking of which, John. How is the re-write of EatBloat going? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 02:38 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error You know what I want to see is a database comparison tool that uses eatbloat to export every object, then do a comparison between each file from the two databases being compared. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Well William or Max: > > Never having used the EatBloat MDB what would be the best way to launch and > use the form? > > Also which reference library do I attach to get such functionality as: > Office.FileDialog. Check 4 website and acquired 3 different answers. Attach > a reference call to a specific package ??? or add the appropriate API calls? > > TIA > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:33 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Jim > > ...no, the switch setting is what I use ...its the process that is a bit > more complex than simply running the decompile > ...the decompile switch itself only works reliably if you follow the steps > before and after using it ...in other words it only puts your app in a state > > that will result in a clean build "IF" you walk though each step. > ...its always been confusing to me ...sometimes it appears to work by itself > > ...other times not ...the only consistent decompile results I've achieved > come when I follow the complete process, not just right click on "decompile" > > ...besides which, I should have mentioned that I also use Max's EatBloat app > > when even decompile doesn't work for me ...but I've said it so many times > here people think Max is paying me off :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Jim Lawrence" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:21 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > >> Hi William: >> >> I am not sure now whether the decompile is working correctly. I added the >> decompile feature to my 'file-type...MDB' options many years ago and other >> than update it occationally depending on which version of Access I have >> been >> using. I have not really checked it over. >> >> Is there any more switches than just >> 'C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\office(10 or 11 or 12)\access.exe >> c:\project\my.mdb /decompile' ? >> >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:27 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error >> >> Jim >> >> ...never saw that problem but I note you said you had decompiled >> ...on the off chance that the decompile didn't actually run, >> ...I've found using the decompile switch to be very buggy >> ...it works ...but only if I do it by the numbers >> ...by itself, it runs but does nothing leaving only the illusion of a >> decompile >> >> ...my process is: >> >> Turn Off CompactOnClose >> Decompile >> Exit >> Open w/Shift >> Compact w/Shift >> Compile >> Compact >> >> ...that actually works reliably, where just running the decompile itself >> often does nothing real. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Jim Lawrence" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:16 AM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Access error >> >>> Hi All: >>> >>> I have just run across an error in MS Access 2003 I have never seen >>> before. >>> >>> The Access is the proper format... 2003, a new DB was created and all the >>> objects were moved from another MDB... giving the same error, the code >>> modules compiles with no errors, the number of objects in the MDB is >>> relatively small and the MDB has been decompiled. >>> >>> The error is as follows: >>> >>> >>> Microsoft Office Access was unable to create an MDE database >>> >>> This error is usually associated with compiling a large database into an >>> MDE >>> file. Due to the method used to compile the database, a considerable >>> number >>> of TableID references are created for each table. The Microsoft Jet >>> database engine version 4.0 can only create a maximum of 2048 open >>> TableIDs >>> at one time. Exporting a database as an MDE potentially can exceed this >>> limit if the database has a large number of objects (table, macro, form, >>> report, etc). >>> There is no accurate method to estimate the number of TableIDs the Jet >>> database engine uses during the process of compiling a database as an >>> MDE. >>> However, each VBA module and each form uses one TableID, as a result, if >>> the >>> database has 500 forms, and each form's HasModule property is set to Yes, >>> as >>> many as 1,000 TableIDs are used. >>> >>> More information about this error message online. >>> >>> >>> The error is as far as I can see is irrelevant. I will now be going >>> through >>> object by object removing or adding and compiling until the error either >>> stops or starts. >>> >>> If anyone has seen this type of error before and has been able to resolve >>> or >>> better yet find out why, I would be very appreciative. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 17:25:35 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:25:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: <9FD8EBE34A9D47868667E9AF3E54B9DA@danwaters> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> <9FD8EBE34A9D47868667E9AF3E54B9DA@danwaters> Message-ID: <4a493f63.0a1ad00a.3520.2779@mx.google.com> Yes, me too. William....just a quick answer please. How does 30/60/90 hours map to x/y/z lapsed days. Is it 30 hours lapses after 30 days, 60 hours - 60 days, etc? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: 29 June 2009 23:20 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) Aaah! I was thinking in terms of XX Hours/month! I'll look for the old newsletter. Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." "The retainer billing rate begins upon our receipt of a check for the number of hours quoted and ends upon consumption of the hours purchased or 90 days after date of receipt of your check, whichever is first." ...I've never had to use the expiry date but its there so that clients don't get lazy ...its just part of the deal to get the discount rates 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if they want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? ...I offer them a block of hours in 30/60/90/120 hour increments ...its their choice, not mine. ...but I also offer a further discount from normal billing with each larger increment ...not much but the psychology is there and in their face ...I monitor their hour consumption and always give them a new bill before their hours have expired ...less than 30 hours just isn't worth it for me ...note: You might want to reread the old dba newsletter ...I did a business column in the first edition that covered pricing strategies, most of which still applies even though its years old now ...now that I think about it I really should delete it ...I was inundated by questions at the time and never made the mistake of listening to Susan's entreaties to write another. ...its not that I mind questions, just that I hate answering the same thing over and over :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Dan Waters" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:57 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > Hi William - now I'm really hooked! > > Couple questions: > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? > > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon > Access2007) > > Dan > > ...you never know until you ask, eh ...if I do work for a client on a > pretty > > regular basis, I now suggest the retainer basis to him ...I give him a > substantial hourly discount and bill him for 30/60/90/120 hours "upfront" > ...bill is due when submitted ...if he doesn't pay promptly, all hours > worked are at regular rates. > > ...it levels my income flow considerably, I never have to dun an otherwise > good customer, and ...think about it ...the client is more inclined to > actually use you if he's already paid for your time ...and if you put an > expiration date on the unused retainer, what used to be the most difficult > part of the sell now becomes much easier. > > ...not every client is a prospect ...but since I almost never do any fixed > fee work ...it works for more than you'd think. > > ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered > working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we > discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:20 AM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: > PollonAccess2007)> Hi William, >> >> A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. >> >> The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access >> is > >> a >> good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't >> originally >> plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use >> the >> system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or >> VB.Net? >> My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and also >> uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >> Access2007) >> >> Dan >> >> ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients pay >> him to play with :) >> >> ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert >> his >> >> website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his >> Access >> app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with >> Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it >> ...but >> >> then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to >> use >> and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party >> ...so >> I wound up doing it myself ...never again. >> >> ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp >> development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely >> ...so >> in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just >> released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the VS >> Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not to >> be >> >> all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client >> was >> happy. >> >> ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm on >> retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so when >> a >> client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I >> started >> moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new >> stuff >> in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client >> wanted >> >> a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the >> majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and >> the >> >> sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy >> >> ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of >> upgrading >> >> to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot >> of >> money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating >> the >> screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my >> case, >> it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end up >> with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access >> and >> >> Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. >> >> ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its >> like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and >> eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a >> dim >> glow :) >> >> ...hth >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dan Waters" >> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >> Access2007) >> >>> William, >>> >>> I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice >>> tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make VS >>> 2008 a tool that developers will like. >>> >>> But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them to >>> pay >>> you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could >>> sure >>> use some pointers! >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Dan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >>> Hindman >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>> ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) >>> >>> ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the >>> Access >>> >>> Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group >>> which >>> was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track most >>> of >>> the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that >>> everything >>> would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that >>> they >>> could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years >>> but >>> never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems >>> ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt >>> every >>> time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back >>> through >>> those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. >>> >>> ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the >>> developer >>> >>> promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE >>> product >>> by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new >>> dao >>> engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros >>> ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for >>> users >>> >>> ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody >>> cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( >>> >>> ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid >>> of >>> such silly stuff, eh >>> >>> ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for real >>> databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh >>> ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! >>> ...look >>> >>> everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office >>> product, it does. >>> >>> ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access >>> 97 >>> until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay with >>> Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t >>> they >>> did with Access 2007 >>> >>> ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 >>> will >>> give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and >>> apparently >>> no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they promise >>> to >>> fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version >>> ...yeah, >>> right :( >>> >>> ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net >>> pool >>> >>> ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! >>> ...Visual >>> Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never >>> will >>> be >>> >>> ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be >>> dragged >>> away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so >>> like >> >>> I >>> >>> said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who actually >>> like developers. >>> >>> ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) >>> >>> William >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Jim Lawrence" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>> >>>> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT THE >>>> SAME >>>> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by >>>> doing >>>> development work, have the same song book. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >>>> weeks >>>> required to figure out >>>> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle >>>> memory) >>>> with the previous version? >>>> >>>> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >>>> earn >>>> all of the money for my >>>> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to >>>> spend >>>> the time to completely >>>> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that >>>> and >>>> too >>>> bad for me. >>>> >>>> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >>>> accelerator as as a joystick in >>>> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights >>>> as >>>> a >>>> knee switch, the >>>> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... >>>> maybe >>>> not?) THAT is precisely >>>> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >>>> >>>> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all >>>> of >>>> the hot keys, all of the >>>> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >>>> that, >>>> we programmed it to >>>> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >>>> "sharepoint >>>> server will make it all >>>> better" crapola, it changes. >>>> >>>> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >>>> POINT >>>> of moving everything >>>> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and refuse >>>> to >>>> allow the programmer to >>>> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >>>> "sharepoint will make it all >>>> better" crap! >>>> >>>> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of >>>> all >>>> the >>>> other Office >>>> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >>>> right. >>>> It makes sense for those >>>> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I >>>> will >>>> take a pass on commenting >>>> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >>>> and >>>> Excel. Well whoopty >>>> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have to >>>> turn >>>> off to get the ACTUAL >>>> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >>>> >>>> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >>>> what >>>> 3rd normal form is and >>>> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" >>>> what >>>> a >>>> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >>>> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, hmm... >>>> I >>>> could go on and on. >>>> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >>>> CONSISTENT >>>> manner, and the USER >>>> hasn't a clue. >>>> >>>> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >>>> remember. >>>> Everything is a list >>>> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server >>>> guys, >>>> the >>>> ORACLE guys. Tell that >>>> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >>>> >>>> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we start >>>> with >>>> Policy holder, policy, >>>> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >>>> great >>>> grandchild) and that is >>>> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >>>> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >>>> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >>>> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >>>> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >>>> magically not be needed I assume >>>> with sharepoint server? >>>> >>>> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >>>> makes >>>> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >>>> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I >>>> have >>>> been telling MS about are >>>> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have >>>> a >>>> ton >>>> of magical glitz and >>>> glitter. >>>> >>>> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >>>> general response to this >>>> thread that I am not alone? >>>> >>>> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access >>>> for >>>> a >>>> living. And now... I >>>> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >>>> are >>>> refusing to move in >>>> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it >>>> is >>>> "better". >>>> >>>> My ASS! >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> OK, I am calm now... >>>> >>>> Sharepoint? >>>> >>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>> >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve Schapel wrote: >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>>>> >>>>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) >>>>>> on >>>>>> how to turn it off. >>>>> >>>>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>>>> think >>>> >>>>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the >>>>> point >>>>> of >>>> >>>>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn it >>>> off", >>>>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to >>>>> what >>>>> you're on about here. >>>>> >>>>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>>>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >>>> learning >>>>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would >>>>> be >>>>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>>>> >>>>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but that >>>>> was >>>> >>>>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at googlemail.com Tue Jun 30 01:56:34 2009 From: paul.hartland at googlemail.com (Paul Hartland) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:56:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT-AVAYA Auto-Attendent Message-ID: <38c884770906292356j4fae0225mb368e197027db9c2@mail.gmail.com> To all, Sorry for the OT, but didn't know where to post this. We have AVAYA telephone systems, and an auto-attendent manager (think it's called VoiceMail Pro Client). Where we can setup a number, then the user gets the pre-recorded messages, with options etc, bit like most auto-mated call centres. I have a number, which when dialled will ask me for a payrol number, it then repeats the payroll number. I then open a coonection to our employees database, and have a simple select query like below : SELECT PayNo FROM OurPersonnelTable WHERE (PayNo = "$KEY") ; The payroll number I am entering is a dummy one, which has a record setup for my details (PayNo 999999), But the select for some reason is always failing. Anyone had any experience of this, and could point me to reference sites/manuals etc Thanks in advance for any help. -- Paul Hartland paul.hartland at googlemail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 30 03:20:03 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:20:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT-AVAYA Auto-Attendent In-Reply-To: <38c884770906292356j4fae0225mb368e197027db9c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <38c884770906292356j4fae0225mb368e197027db9c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A49CAB3.700.1A8BC01E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It;s looking for a PayNo which consists of the string "$Key" build your string as: strSQL = "SELECT PayNo " & _ "FROM OurPersonnelTable " & WHERE PayNo = " & $KEY & ";" -- Stuart On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:56, Paul Hartland wrote: > To all, > > Sorry for the OT, but didn't know where to post this. We have AVAYA > telephone systems, and an auto-attendent manager (think it's called > VoiceMail Pro Client). Where we can setup a number, then the user gets the > pre-recorded messages, with options etc, bit like most auto-mated call > centres. > > I have a number, which when dialled will ask me for a payrol number, it then > repeats the payroll number. I then open a coonection to our employees > database, and have a simple select query like below : > > SELECT PayNo > FROM OurPersonnelTable > WHERE (PayNo = "$KEY") ; > > The payroll number I am entering is a dummy one, which has a record setup > for my details (PayNo 999999), But the select for some reason is always > failing. > > Anyone had any experience of this, and could point me to reference > sites/manuals etc > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jun 30 05:42:35 2009 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:42:35 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Message-ID: Hi Jim And this is not the first time she does this ... I can imagine Susan sitting at the computer. "I'm bored. Let's have some fun!". A click is heard when the safety pin is pulled - and then ...! /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 30-06-2009 01:20 >>> The whole thing is Susan's fault... she threw a handgrenaide into the chicken coop and just sat back and watched the carnage. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 Well you sure stirred up a hornet's nest. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Susan Harkins wrote: >> As for MS listening or not to MS Access (VBA) developers: they are listening >> I think but they apply a strong "noise filter" on what they hear - and that >> filter does very probably filter out many things advanced MS Access (VBA) >> developers urge for but MS finds them to be irrelevant to their own >> business... >> >> Microsoft do you hear me? :) > > ======FWIW, what I meant when I made that comment was that MS is not > following my blog, nor do they consult me about anything. I doubt MS even > knows I exist. > > Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 06:38:53 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:38:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> It is in the queue... right behind my paying work... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Talking of which, John. How is the re-write of EatBloat going? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 02:38 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > You know what I want to see is a database comparison tool that uses eatbloat > to export every object, > then do a comparison between each file from the two databases being > compared. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 06:54:51 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:54:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Good price on CPU/MB Message-ID: <4A49FD0B.8070400@colbyconsulting.com> See the AMD Phenom II 940 CPU / ECS A780 motherboard combo. http://promotions.newegg.com/NEemail/June-0-2009/7th30/index-landing.html?nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL063009&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL063009-_-email-_-E0-_-Promoword&cm_lm=jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com You are getting a fast quad core CPU and the MB is only $10 more than the CPU alone. That is a steal. And... it has the on-board graphics. Not gaming graphics but it is quite respectable. This would make an awesome dev machine. With a 4 gigs of DIMM it would cost about $250 to have a first rate FAST quad core (assuming an upgrade, and your PS is compatible). I use this processor and the same chipset (different manufacturer) for one of my two SQL Server machines. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 07:57:38 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:57:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Count of Table's Records Viewed in Database Window In-Reply-To: <4B4F5A8D74D3409B89281BF1C620DFBB@Manager> References: <4B4F5A8D74D3409B89281BF1C620DFBB@Manager> Message-ID: Don't know if this is of use to any one? Max *Public Sub psAddTableDescription() ' this will add the current total of records in the table as a Description on the Table which can ' then be viewed in the Database Window ' Max Sherman June 2009. Feel free to do what you want with it. ' I use a similar procedure to allow users to put their own comments onto Reports which they can ' then use to remember whatever it is they want to remember. All reports are shown in a Form which ' the users can select from (filtered by function) with their own description alongside. ' It then occured to me that I could use this to put the Record Count in the Description column of the ' tables in the Database Window.* * On Error GoTo errhandler DoCmd.Hourglass True Dim dbs As DAO.Database Dim tbl As DAO.TableDef, rst As DAO.Recordset, rstCt As Long Dim cnt As DAO.Container, Doc As DAO.Document Dim strCon As String, strDesc As String, strDoc As String, strValue As String Set dbs = CurrentDb strCon = "Tables" strDesc = "Description" For Each tbl In CurrentDb.TableDefs strDoc = tbl.Name If Left(strDoc, 4) = "msys" Then 'ignore Else Set rst = CurrentDb.OpenRecordset(strDoc) If Not rst.EOF Then rst.MoveLast rstCt = rst.RecordCount Else rstCt = 0 End If strValue = "Recs: " & Format(rstCt, "#,0") Set rst = Nothing Set cnt = dbs.Containers(strCon) Set Doc = cnt(strDoc) Doc.Properties.Refresh Doc.Properties(strDesc) = strValue End If Next tbl DoCmd.Hourglass False MsgBox "Done" exithere: Set dbs = Nothing: Set rst = Nothing: Set cnt = Nothing: Set Doc = Nothing Exit Sub errhandler: Select Case Err.Number Case 3270 ' property not defined, so create it Call sCreateDocProperty(strCon, strDoc, strDesc, strValue, strType:=dbText) Resume Next Case Else MsgBox "Error in psAddTableDescription: " & Err.Number & vbCrLf & Err.Description End Select Resume Next 'exithere End Sub Public Sub sCreateDocProperty(strCon, strDoc, strDesc, strValue, strType) On Error GoTo exithere Dim dbs As DAO.Database, cnt As DAO.Container, Doc As DAO.Document, prp As DAO.Property Set dbs = CurrentDb Set cnt = dbs.Containers(strCon) Set Doc = cnt(strDoc) Set prp = dbs.CreateProperty(strDesc, strType, strValue) Doc.Properties.Append prp exithere: Set dbs = Nothing: Set cnt = Nothing: Set Doc = Nothing: Set prp = Nothing Exit Sub End Sub* ** From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Jun 30 08:00:35 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:00:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk><4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I work strictly on a $/hr basis. Never had any work outright stolen, but I lost my shirt too many times on projects and got tired of arguing with people on what was and what not included. Especially when they started to complain about all the time I spent "documenting stuff". I've been working that way for 20 years now and like you have never looked back. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 A power user cured me of projects by fee. The client paid me 1/3 up front as a deposit. Then, when the application was nearly done -- the power user knew enough that she didn't need a hand-holding interface -- they just stopped corresponding. I knew they were using the last version I had sent them, but they never paid me and stopped returning my calls and emails -- just flat stole the work. Never worked by the project again. Susan H. > ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user > with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Jun 30 08:04:48 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:04:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: <5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> <5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> Message-ID: <865629CBB54440018606025B4B0A6D18@XPS> "A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for a one-time payment. " At one time I was considering doing this, but a lawyer friend advised me not to because of that. He said that if I became sick or hurt and unable to complete work, it opened the door for lawsuits. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > > Couple questions: > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." ========Whatever you agree on. > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? ========50 hours -- they pay you a second retainer. 10 hours -- YOU WIN!!!! A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for a one-time payment. Unless you both agree, a retainer isn't generally refundable. However, you'd not let that be a deal breaker with a good client and in this case, it really wouldn't be necessary -- kind of moot really. It's the one-timers or the guys that call you infrequently where a retainer works to your advantage. Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 09:04:02 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:04:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au><9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru>, <68C9D4E4E8CB4829872CFFAE69AF7481@SusanOne><631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB0829502A596F3B7@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk><4A48DB0A.4090806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4A4A1B52.2000808@colbyconsulting.com> Likewise. I have clients ask me to estimate hours but I make it clear that even estimates can go over, sometimes way over depending on what I run into. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Dettman wrote: > > I work strictly on a $/hr basis. Never had any work outright stolen, but > I lost my shirt too many times on projects and got tired of arguing with > people on what was and what not included. Especially when they started to > complain about all the time I spent "documenting stuff". > > I've been working that way for 20 years now and like you have never looked > back. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:17 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > > A power user cured me of projects by fee. The client paid me 1/3 up front as > > a deposit. Then, when the application was nearly done -- the power user knew > > enough that she didn't need a hand-holding interface -- they just stopped > corresponding. I knew they were using the last version I had sent them, but > they never paid me and stopped returning my calls and emails -- just flat > stole the work. > > Never worked by the project again. > > Susan H. > > >> ...too old for all the problems that are inevitable when some power user >> with a full Access install starts running active queries on the data :( > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 09:04:19 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:04:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: Message-ID: <76D0C5D688C14AAD9DEBA1DF78F6E973@SusanOne> I am perfectly innocent your honor. ;) It's not like I said, "unbound -- don't ask don't tell..." or "surrogate keyers make better lovers... " Susan H. > Hi Jim > > And this is not the first time she does this ... > > I can imagine Susan sitting at the computer. "I'm bored. Let's have some > fun!". A click is heard when the safety pin is pulled - and then ...! From kismert at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 09:13:46 2009 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:13:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access error Message-ID: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> Max, >Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files >via EatBloat (don?t know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and >then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded >control characters that may be causing the problem. I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. Could you elaborate on this problem? Thanks, -Ken From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 09:42:00 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:42:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> References: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: hmmm, I can't really Ken. I just "get the feeling" that sometimes there may be hidden control characters in modules etc, maybe caused by typing too fast etc. You will probably have experiened the case where the code will stop running on a line which appears to be a debug break point and comes up hightlighted in yellow - it may have been a genuine break point at some future time. As you know, if you export code into NotePad it will strip any control characters and leave just plain text - if you then paste it back again into the module it will probably run ok the next time after a compile. Whether it is a genuine control character is impossible to say because it doesn't display. That is all I meant by it. Max On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > Max, > > >Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files > >via EatBloat (don?t know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and > >then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded > >control characters that may be causing the problem. > > I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the > 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. > > Could you elaborate on this problem? > > Thanks, > -Ken > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 09:48:23 2009 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:48:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev><5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> <865629CBB54440018606025B4B0A6D18@XPS> Message-ID: Interesting that a lawyer told you this. Their entire professionals works mostly on retainer. Susan H. > > "A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be > there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for > a > > one-time payment. " > > At one time I was considering doing this, but a lawyer friend advised me > not to because of that. He said that if I became sick or hurt and unable > to > complete work, it opened the door for lawsuits. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Jun 30 09:54:00 2009 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 07:54:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev><5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne><865629CBB54440018606025B4B0A6D18@XPS> Message-ID: True, but it's sooooooo hard to sue a lawyer. After all, who's going to be willing to represent you? LOL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) Interesting that a lawyer told you this. Their entire professionals works mostly on retainer. Susan H. > > "A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that > you'll be there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever > they want for a > > one-time payment. " > > At one time I was considering doing this, but a lawyer friend advised > me not to because of that. He said that if I became sick or hurt and > unable to complete work, it opened the door for lawsuits. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 10:16:52 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:16:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: References: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A4A2C64.3080400@colbyconsulting.com> You are absolutely correct Max, that is EXACTLY what is going on. Modules contain things similar (I believe) to the old Word Perfect formatting stuff, where what you see is definitely NOT what is in the file stream. Sometimes things in the source modules gets mangled, but you can't see it because it is hidden. This is what /Decompile is supposed to do, flush the pcode streams and recompile HOWEVER if the problem is in the source itself... you get back the same mangled PCode stream. By exporting to a text file, (pretty much) only what you see is what gets exported so the crap hidden in the source file goes away. I have spent HOURS tracking down problems like this. My code would cause a page fault, Access would just close without warning. I would insert line numbers and start tracing through until I found the offending line, then MANUALLY retype what I could visibly see, deleting the original and voila, no more page fault. I reiterate, what I was typing was EXACTLY what I could see on the screen but there was SOMETHING invisible in that line of code. As soon as I deleted the offending line, the problem went away. Max's EatBloat would be a huge timesaver in this case. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > hmmm, I can't really Ken. I just "get the feeling" that sometimes there may > be hidden control characters in modules etc, maybe caused by typing too fast > etc. You will probably have experiened the case where the code will stop > running on a line which appears to be a debug break point and comes up > hightlighted in yellow - it may have been a genuine break point at some > future time. As you know, if you export code into NotePad it will strip any > control characters and leave just plain text - if you then paste it back > again into the module it will probably run ok the next time after a > compile. Whether it is a genuine control character is impossible to say > because it doesn't display. > > That is all I meant by it. > > Max > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > >> Max, >> >>> Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files >>> via EatBloat (don?t know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and >>> then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded >>> control characters that may be causing the problem. >> I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the >> 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. >> >> Could you elaborate on this problem? >> >> Thanks, >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 10:52:03 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:52:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4A4A2C64.3080400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A2C64.3080400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4a34a7.0702d00a.7d94.0f0d@mx.google.com> Thank you - it is nice to know that I am not going barmy.... I find it easier to cut a bunch of code into Notepad and then post it straight back in again rather than risk more typos though. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 16:17 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error You are absolutely correct Max, that is EXACTLY what is going on. Modules contain things similar (I believe) to the old Word Perfect formatting stuff, where what you see is definitely NOT what is in the file stream. Sometimes things in the source modules gets mangled, but you can't see it because it is hidden. This is what /Decompile is supposed to do, flush the pcode streams and recompile HOWEVER if the problem is in the source itself... you get back the same mangled PCode stream. By exporting to a text file, (pretty much) only what you see is what gets exported so the crap hidden in the source file goes away. I have spent HOURS tracking down problems like this. My code would cause a page fault, Access would just close without warning. I would insert line numbers and start tracing through until I found the offending line, then MANUALLY retype what I could visibly see, deleting the original and voila, no more page fault. I reiterate, what I was typing was EXACTLY what I could see on the screen but there was SOMETHING invisible in that line of code. As soon as I deleted the offending line, the problem went away. Max's EatBloat would be a huge timesaver in this case. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > hmmm, I can't really Ken. I just "get the feeling" that sometimes there may > be hidden control characters in modules etc, maybe caused by typing too fast > etc. You will probably have experiened the case where the code will stop > running on a line which appears to be a debug break point and comes up > hightlighted in yellow - it may have been a genuine break point at some > future time. As you know, if you export code into NotePad it will strip any > control characters and leave just plain text - if you then paste it back > again into the module it will probably run ok the next time after a > compile. Whether it is a genuine control character is impossible to say > because it doesn't display. > > That is all I meant by it. > > Max > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > >> Max, >> >>> Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files >>> via EatBloat (don't know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and >>> then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded >>> control characters that may be causing the problem. >> I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the >> 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. >> >> Could you elaborate on this problem? >> >> Thanks, >> -Ken >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 10:58:26 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:58:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC> <4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> ...that far back, eh? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 12:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error It is in the queue... right behind my paying work... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Talking of which, John. How is the re-write of EatBloat going? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 02:38 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > You know what I want to see is a database comparison tool that uses eatbloat > to export every object, > then do a comparison between each file from the two databases being > compared. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 10:57:43 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:57:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access error In-Reply-To: <4a4a34a7.0702d00a.7d94.0f0d@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A2C64.3080400@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a34a7.0702d00a.7d94.0f0d@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A35F7.7010201@colbyconsulting.com> Nowhere in my post did I EVER say that you aren't going barmy... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Thank you - it is nice to know that I am not going barmy.... > > I find it easier to cut a bunch of code into Notepad and then post it > straight back in again rather than risk more typos though. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 16:17 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > You are absolutely correct Max, that is EXACTLY what is going on. > > Modules contain things similar (I believe) to the old Word Perfect > formatting stuff, where what you > see is definitely NOT what is in the file stream. Sometimes things in the > source modules gets > mangled, but you can't see it because it is hidden. This is what /Decompile > is supposed to do, > flush the pcode streams and recompile HOWEVER if the problem is in the > source itself... you get back > the same mangled PCode stream. > > By exporting to a text file, (pretty much) only what you see is what gets > exported so the crap > hidden in the source file goes away. > > I have spent HOURS tracking down problems like this. My code would cause a > page fault, Access would > just close without warning. I would insert line numbers and start tracing > through until I found the > offending line, then MANUALLY retype what I could visibly see, deleting the > original and voila, no > more page fault. > > I reiterate, what I was typing was EXACTLY what I could see on the screen > but there was SOMETHING > invisible in that line of code. As soon as I deleted the offending line, > the problem went away. > Max's EatBloat would be a huge timesaver in this case. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> hmmm, I can't really Ken. I just "get the feeling" that sometimes there > may >> be hidden control characters in modules etc, maybe caused by typing too > fast >> etc. You will probably have experiened the case where the code will stop >> running on a line which appears to be a debug break point and comes up >> hightlighted in yellow - it may have been a genuine break point at some >> future time. As you know, if you export code into NotePad it will strip > any >> control characters and leave just plain text - if you then paste it back >> again into the module it will probably run ok the next time after a >> compile. Whether it is a genuine control character is impossible to say >> because it doesn't display. >> >> That is all I meant by it. >> >> Max >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> >>> Max, >>> >>>> Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files >>>> via EatBloat (don't know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and >>>> then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded >>>> control characters that may be causing the problem. >>> I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the >>> 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. >>> >>> Could you elaborate on this problem? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Ken >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 11:06:01 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:06:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access error In-Reply-To: <4A4A35F7.7010201@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A2C64.3080400@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a34a7.0702d00a.7d94.0f0d@mx.google.com> <4A4A35F7.7010201@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4a37eb.0a1ad00a.7aa9.37cc@mx.google.com> Hmmm I read that and read it again....so, your not saying, I am not going barmy and your not saying i am going barmy...your just not saying...why not, what do you know, c'mon spill the beans am I barmy or not!! Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 16:58 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access error Nowhere in my post did I EVER say that you aren't going barmy... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Thank you - it is nice to know that I am not going barmy.... > > I find it easier to cut a bunch of code into Notepad and then post it > straight back in again rather than risk more typos though. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 16:17 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > You are absolutely correct Max, that is EXACTLY what is going on. > > Modules contain things similar (I believe) to the old Word Perfect > formatting stuff, where what you > see is definitely NOT what is in the file stream. Sometimes things in the > source modules gets > mangled, but you can't see it because it is hidden. This is what /Decompile > is supposed to do, > flush the pcode streams and recompile HOWEVER if the problem is in the > source itself... you get back > the same mangled PCode stream. > > By exporting to a text file, (pretty much) only what you see is what gets > exported so the crap > hidden in the source file goes away. > > I have spent HOURS tracking down problems like this. My code would cause a > page fault, Access would > just close without warning. I would insert line numbers and start tracing > through until I found the > offending line, then MANUALLY retype what I could visibly see, deleting the > original and voila, no > more page fault. > > I reiterate, what I was typing was EXACTLY what I could see on the screen > but there was SOMETHING > invisible in that line of code. As soon as I deleted the offending line, > the problem went away. > Max's EatBloat would be a huge timesaver in this case. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> hmmm, I can't really Ken. I just "get the feeling" that sometimes there > may >> be hidden control characters in modules etc, maybe caused by typing too > fast >> etc. You will probably have experiened the case where the code will stop >> running on a line which appears to be a debug break point and comes up >> hightlighted in yellow - it may have been a genuine break point at some >> future time. As you know, if you export code into NotePad it will strip > any >> control characters and leave just plain text - if you then paste it back >> again into the module it will probably run ok the next time after a >> compile. Whether it is a genuine control character is impossible to say >> because it doesn't display. >> >> That is all I meant by it. >> >> Max >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> >>> Max, >>> >>>> Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files >>>> via EatBloat (don't know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and >>>> then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded >>>> control characters that may be causing the problem. >>> I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the >>> 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. >>> >>> Could you elaborate on this problem? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> -Ken >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 11:10:25 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:10:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT-AVAYA Auto-Attendent In-Reply-To: <4A49CAB3.700.1A8BC01E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <38c884770906292356j4fae0225mb368e197027db9c2@mail.gmail.com> <4A49CAB3.700.1A8BC01E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4a4a38f4.0a04d00a.4302.3684@mx.google.com> ..or.. strSQL = "SELECT PayNo " & _ "FROM OurPersonnelTable " & WHERE PayNo = '" & $KEY & "';" I have put two single quotes within the string to delimit $Key. Either this or Stuart's posting should work Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 30 June 2009 09:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT-AVAYA Auto-Attendent It;s looking for a PayNo which consists of the string "$Key" build your string as: strSQL = "SELECT PayNo " & _ "FROM OurPersonnelTable " & WHERE PayNo = " & $KEY & ";" -- Stuart On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:56, Paul Hartland wrote: > To all, > > Sorry for the OT, but didn't know where to post this. We have AVAYA > telephone systems, and an auto-attendent manager (think it's called > VoiceMail Pro Client). Where we can setup a number, then the user gets the > pre-recorded messages, with options etc, bit like most auto-mated call > centres. > > I have a number, which when dialled will ask me for a payrol number, it then > repeats the payroll number. I then open a coonection to our employees > database, and have a simple select query like below : > > SELECT PayNo > FROM OurPersonnelTable > WHERE (PayNo = "$KEY") ; > > The payroll number I am entering is a dummy one, which has a record setup > for my details (PayNo 999999), But the select for some reason is always > failing. > > Anyone had any experience of this, and could point me to reference > sites/manuals etc > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > -- > Paul Hartland > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 11:38:13 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:38:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access error In-Reply-To: <4a4a37eb.0a1ad00a.7aa9.37cc@mx.google.com> References: <7c7841600906300713k505a45cbk2ee9a24a2d679ddd@mail.gmail.com> <4A4A2C64.3080400@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a34a7.0702d00a.7d94.0f0d@mx.google.com> <4A4A35F7.7010201@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a37eb.0a1ad00a.7aa9.37cc@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A3F75.3050400@colbyconsulting.com> I'll never tell... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Hmmm I read that and read it again....so, your not saying, I am not going > barmy and your not saying i am going barmy...your just not saying...why not, > what do you know, c'mon spill the beans am I barmy or not!! > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 16:58 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access error > > Nowhere in my post did I EVER say that you aren't going barmy... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Thank you - it is nice to know that I am not going barmy.... >> >> I find it easier to cut a bunch of code into Notepad and then post it >> straight back in again rather than risk more typos though. >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 30 June 2009 16:17 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error >> >> You are absolutely correct Max, that is EXACTLY what is going on. >> >> Modules contain things similar (I believe) to the old Word Perfect >> formatting stuff, where what you >> see is definitely NOT what is in the file stream. Sometimes things in the >> source modules gets >> mangled, but you can't see it because it is hidden. This is what > /Decompile >> is supposed to do, >> flush the pcode streams and recompile HOWEVER if the problem is in the >> source itself... you get back >> the same mangled PCode stream. >> >> By exporting to a text file, (pretty much) only what you see is what gets >> exported so the crap >> hidden in the source file goes away. >> >> I have spent HOURS tracking down problems like this. My code would cause > a >> page fault, Access would >> just close without warning. I would insert line numbers and start tracing >> through until I found the >> offending line, then MANUALLY retype what I could visibly see, deleting > the >> original and voila, no >> more page fault. >> >> I reiterate, what I was typing was EXACTLY what I could see on the screen >> but there was SOMETHING >> invisible in that line of code. As soon as I deleted the offending line, >> the problem went away. >> Max's EatBloat would be a huge timesaver in this case. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Max Wanadoo wrote: >>> hmmm, I can't really Ken. I just "get the feeling" that sometimes there >> may >>> be hidden control characters in modules etc, maybe caused by typing too >> fast >>> etc. You will probably have experiened the case where the code will stop >>> running on a line which appears to be a debug break point and comes up >>> hightlighted in yellow - it may have been a genuine break point at some >>> future time. As you know, if you export code into NotePad it will strip >> any >>> control characters and leave just plain text - if you then paste it back >>> again into the module it will probably run ok the next time after a >>> compile. Whether it is a genuine control character is impossible to say >>> because it doesn't display. >>> >>> That is all I meant by it. >>> >>> Max >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Kenneth Ismert > wrote: >>>> Max, >>>> >>>>> Not advertising here, but if you export the whole lot to text files >>>>> via EatBloat (don't know If John/Dan have re-written it yet) and >>>>> then import it into a new mdb you will drop any embedded >>>>> control characters that may be causing the problem. >>>> I've been studying this bloat/rebuild issue, and I'm unfamiliar with the >>>> 'embedded control characters' issue. Maybe I just forgot. >>>> >>>> Could you elaborate on this problem? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -Ken >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 11:40:15 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:40:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> To be quite honest, I just forgot about it. Sorry about that. The last few weeks I have acquired a couple of new clients and you know how things go... they always need something done RIGHT NOW (why else would they be here?). So I have been pushing everything else out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > ...that far back, eh? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 12:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > It is in the queue... right behind my paying work... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Talking of which, John. How is the re-write of EatBloat going? >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 30 June 2009 02:38 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error >> >> You know what I want to see is a database comparison tool that uses > eatbloat >> to export every object, >> then do a comparison between each file from the two databases being >> compared. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Jun 30 11:40:30 2009 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:40:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) In-Reply-To: References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev><5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> <865629CBB54440018606025B4B0A6D18@XPS> Message-ID: <34C75A55A54644BF898188BD9740C5E8@XPS> Susan, I think it was mostly due to the fact that I worked on my own (and didn't have any intentions of expanding), but worked as an employee of Online Computer Services, Inc. Legally, it would be the company stipulating that it would provide services for a fee. Not sure how good of a lawyer he was though. Probably should have checked into it more at the time, but work on a straight $/hr rate seemed more attractive. No contracts to sign and either party can walk away at any time. Since I bill bi-monthly, everyone is always on the same page and I've had none of the nonsense that went on when I did project work. Of course laws have changed considerably over the years, so that advice even if sound at the time might not be true today. But like I said, $/hr has worked well and I've never looked back... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) Interesting that a lawyer told you this. Their entire professionals works mostly on retainer. Susan H. > > "A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be > there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for > a > > one-time payment. " > > At one time I was considering doing this, but a lawyer friend advised me > not to because of that. He said that if I became sick or hurt and unable > to > complete work, it opened the door for lawsuits. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Tue Jun 30 12:04:18 2009 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <76D0C5D688C14AAD9DEBA1DF78F6E973@SusanOne> References: <76D0C5D688C14AAD9DEBA1DF78F6E973@SusanOne> Message-ID: You might as well have...that one ended up in the "interesting stuff" folder here...thanks to all of you... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 I am perfectly innocent your honor. ;) It's not like I said, "unbound -- don't ask don't tell..." or "surrogate keyers make better lovers... " Susan H. > Hi Jim > > And this is not the first time she does this ... > > I can imagine Susan sitting at the computer. "I'm bored. Let's have > some fun!". A click is heard when the safety pin is pulled - and then ...! -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 12:19:24 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:19:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC> <4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> Aha! So you have been doing SALES. Well done - picking them up in this economic climate is pretty good. I hope it means that things are getting back to normality. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 17:40 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error To be quite honest, I just forgot about it. Sorry about that. The last few weeks I have acquired a couple of new clients and you know how things go... they always need something done RIGHT NOW (why else would they be here?). So I have been pushing everything else out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > ...that far back, eh? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 12:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > It is in the queue... right behind my paying work... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Talking of which, John. How is the re-write of EatBloat going? >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 30 June 2009 02:38 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error >> >> You know what I want to see is a database comparison tool that uses > eatbloat >> to export every object, >> then do a comparison between each file from the two databases being >> compared. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 14:11:51 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:11:51 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A6377.7010408@colbyconsulting.com> Max, When I lived up in Connecticut I used to go to the local Access user's group which was hosted at Microsoft's suite. One day I gave a short and sweet lecture about classes and frameworks. There was a gentleman there who heard the lecture and apparently wrote my name down because three years later I get a call from him. His business is booming and he no longer has time to do the database stuff. Not exactly sales, and yet kind of sales, yea. The client is doing pretty cool stuff. He gets Medicaid drug invoices, uses Omnipage and OCR to rip the stuff out into CSV files, then he imports those csv files into an access database and does analysis for his clients. As you might imagine the invoices are all over the map in terms of format. My job is to write code to extract this field from this line and another field from another line and these 8 fields from the next N lines, and then recognize page breaks etc. and write them into a table in a consistent format. So far we have identified 5 different formats that I have written extraction code for, and there others that he has stumbled across as he works. I write a class for each format, each class has logic to find the right field(s) in the right line(s) to get the data out, and then write the data back to a standard table. Each class looks very similar to every other such class except that that search logic is slightly different, and the "This source field goes in this destination field" is slightly different. And then of course there is data correction to fix OCR errors. Ones get turned into L and I, zero gets turned into o and O etc. I find and fix these errors in the code as I move the data. Fun stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Aha! So you have been doing SALES. > > Well done - picking them up in this economic climate is pretty good. I hope > it means that things are getting back to normality. > > Max From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:18:18 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:18:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4A4A6377.7010408@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> <4A4A6377.7010408@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4a64ff.0702d00a.3fa9.2343@mx.google.com> That sounds really cool and it goes to show that you never, ever know where things will pop up. Today, at the charity, we had an email referring to an application we sent in in 2007 and asking us to make a bid for money. Strange world. I am happy for you - genuinely. Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 20:12 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error Max, When I lived up in Connecticut I used to go to the local Access user's group which was hosted at Microsoft's suite. One day I gave a short and sweet lecture about classes and frameworks. There was a gentleman there who heard the lecture and apparently wrote my name down because three years later I get a call from him. His business is booming and he no longer has time to do the database stuff. Not exactly sales, and yet kind of sales, yea. The client is doing pretty cool stuff. He gets Medicaid drug invoices, uses Omnipage and OCR to rip the stuff out into CSV files, then he imports those csv files into an access database and does analysis for his clients. As you might imagine the invoices are all over the map in terms of format. My job is to write code to extract this field from this line and another field from another line and these 8 fields from the next N lines, and then recognize page breaks etc. and write them into a table in a consistent format. So far we have identified 5 different formats that I have written extraction code for, and there others that he has stumbled across as he works. I write a class for each format, each class has logic to find the right field(s) in the right line(s) to get the data out, and then write the data back to a standard table. Each class looks very similar to every other such class except that that search logic is slightly different, and the "This source field goes in this destination field" is slightly different. And then of course there is data correction to fix OCR errors. Ones get turned into L and I, zero gets turned into o and O etc. I find and fix these errors in the code as I move the data. Fun stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Aha! So you have been doing SALES. > > Well done - picking them up in this economic climate is pretty good. I hope > it means that things are getting back to normality. > > Max -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 14:38:56 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:38:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4a4a64ff.0702d00a.3fa9.2343@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> <4A4A6377.7010408@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a64ff.0702d00a.3fa9.2343@mx.googl e.com> Message-ID: <4A4A69D0.1040500@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, it is always nice to increase the customer base. As a sole proprietor, and definitely NOT a salesman, I find it difficult to sell my services. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > That sounds really cool and it goes to show that you never, ever know where > things will pop up. > Today, at the charity, we had an email referring to an application we sent > in in 2007 and asking us to make a bid for money. > > Strange world. I am happy for you - genuinely. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 20:12 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Max, > > When I lived up in Connecticut I used to go to the local Access user's group > which was hosted at > Microsoft's suite. One day I gave a short and sweet lecture about classes > and frameworks. There > was a gentleman there who heard the lecture and apparently wrote my name > down because three years > later I get a call from him. His business is booming and he no longer has > time to do the database > stuff. > > Not exactly sales, and yet kind of sales, yea. > > The client is doing pretty cool stuff. He gets Medicaid drug invoices, uses > Omnipage and OCR to rip > the stuff out into CSV files, then he imports those csv files into an access > database and does > analysis for his clients. As you might imagine the invoices are all over > the map in terms of > format. My job is to write code to extract this field from this line and > another field from another > line and these 8 fields from the next N lines, and then recognize page > breaks etc. and write them > into a table in a consistent format. > > So far we have identified 5 different formats that I have written extraction > code for, and there > others that he has stumbled across as he works. I write a class for each > format, each class has > logic to find the right field(s) in the right line(s) to get the data out, > and then write the data > back to a standard table. Each class looks very similar to every other such > class except that that > search logic is slightly different, and the "This source field goes in this > destination field" is > slightly different. > > And then of course there is data correction to fix OCR errors. Ones get > turned into L and I, zero > gets turned into o and O etc. I find and fix these errors in the code as I > move the data. > > Fun stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Aha! So you have been doing SALES. >> >> Well done - picking them up in this economic climate is pretty good. I > hope >> it means that things are getting back to normality. >> >> Max > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 30 14:34:26 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:34:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev> <9FD8EBE34A9D47868667E9AF3E54B9DA@danwaters> <4a493f63.0a1ad00a.3520.2779@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <6DB21E53443E40708388B243D6D132F6@jislaptopdev> ...it doesn't ...I vary the expiration date based on what I expect the client to use ...if he's a 10 hr per month type guy and wants to buy 120 hrs, I'll give him a year ...the 60 hr per month type gets 90 days ...I never do less than that. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Max Wanadoo" Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:25 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > Yes, me too. > > William....just a quick answer please. > > How does 30/60/90 hours map to x/y/z lapsed days. > > Is it 30 hours lapses after 30 days, 60 hours - 60 days, etc? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters > Sent: 29 June 2009 23:20 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > > Aaah! I was thinking in terms of XX Hours/month! > > I'll look for the old newsletter. > > Thanks! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William Hindman > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > > 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." > > "The retainer billing rate begins upon our receipt of a check for the > number of hours quoted and ends upon consumption > of the hours purchased or 90 days after date of receipt > of your check, whichever is first." > > ...I've never had to use the expiry date but its there so that clients > don't > > get lazy > ...its just part of the deal to get the discount rates > > 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if > they > want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? > > ...I offer them a block of hours in 30/60/90/120 hour increments ...its > their choice, not mine. > ...but I also offer a further discount from normal billing with each > larger > increment > ...not much but the psychology is there and in their face > ...I monitor their hour consumption and always give them a new bill > before their hours have expired ...less than 30 hours just isn't worth it > for me > > ...note: You might want to reread the old dba newsletter ...I did a > business > > column in the first edition > that covered pricing strategies, most of which still applies even though > its > > years old now ...now that I > think about it I really should delete it ...I was inundated by questions > at > the time and never made the > mistake of listening to Susan's entreaties to write another. > > ...its not that I mind questions, just that I hate answering the same > thing > over and over :) > > William > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Dan Waters" > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:57 PM > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > >> Hi William - now I'm really hooked! >> >> Couple questions: >> >> 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." >> >> 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if >> they >> want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? >> >> >> Thanks! >> Dan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >> Hindman >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 2:20 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Pollon >> Access2007) >> >> Dan >> >> ...you never know until you ask, eh ...if I do work for a client on a >> pretty >> >> regular basis, I now suggest the retainer basis to him ...I give him a >> substantial hourly discount and bill him for 30/60/90/120 hours "upfront" >> ...bill is due when submitted ...if he doesn't pay promptly, all hours >> worked are at regular rates. >> >> ...it levels my income flow considerably, I never have to dun an >> otherwise >> good customer, and ...think about it ...the client is more inclined to >> actually use you if he's already paid for your time ...and if you put an >> expiration date on the unused retainer, what used to be the most >> difficult >> part of the sell now becomes much easier. >> >> ...not every client is a prospect ...but since I almost never do any >> fixed >> fee work ...it works for more than you'd think. >> >> ...a client put me onto it ...just flat out asked if I'd ever considered >> working on a retainer basis ...didn't have a clue what he meant but we >> discussed it and I worked out some numbers and there its been ever since. >> >> William >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Dan Waters" >> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:20 AM >> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: >> PollonAccess2007)> Hi William, >>> >>> A Retainer . . . Excellent! I could only wish. >>> >>> The argument of upgrade to VB.Net vs. upgrade to next version of Access >>> is >> >>> a >>> good one. I'm also finding that some of my customers who didn't >>> originally >>> plan to expand beyond their LAN, now want other company branches to use >>> the >>> system on their WAN. So do we use Access on Citrix or Access/ADP or >>> VB.Net? >>> My suggestion will be VB.Net to avoid future Access upgrade cost and >>> also >>> uncertainty of the Access changes that MS will be making. >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >>> Hindman >>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 3:23 AM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >>> Access2007) >>> >>> Dan >>> >>> ...everyone is different ...look at the monster machines jc's clients >>> pay >>> him to play with :) >>> >>> ...my road to VS was through the web ...a major client wanted to convert >>> his >>> >>> website from static html to a data driven one using the data in his >>> Access >>> app ...I wanted no part of web work being perfectly happy working with >>> Access, so I recruited another AccessD'r I knew did web work to do it >>> ...but >>> >>> then the client's ISP got real picky about some dlls that he wanted to >>> use >>> and the client got antsy about turning his data over to a third party >>> ...so >>> I wound up doing it myself ...never again. >>> >>> ...I bought a 3rd party tool that was supposed to be the end all in Asp >>> development ...big mistake ...I got the site running but just barely >>> ...so >>> in desperation I turned to the new VS5 Express tool that MS had just >>> released ...it was free after all ...and I've never looked back ...the >>> VS >>> Web Developer Express Edition was a joy to use and .net turned out not >>> to >>> be >>> >>> all that hard to learn even for an old codger like me ...and the client >>> was >>> happy. >>> >>> ...as for Access app conversion to VS, you have to understand that I'm >>> on >>> retainer with most of my clients and pretty free to experiment ...so >>> when >>> a >>> client's office manager choked on the Office 2007 upgrade changes I >>> started >>> moving his apps ...still on A2k3 with a lot of his stuff but the new >>> stuff >>> in VS has him smiling (and his office manager) ...then another client >>> wanted >>> >>> a major upgrade and I sold him on VS8 vs A2K7 and so far so good ...the >>> majority of my work is still in A2k3 but now I can demo apps in both and >>> the >>> >>> sell on VS8 vs A2k7 is pretty easy >>> >>> ...I focus on the roi in VS and SQL Server Express vs the costs of >>> upgrading >>> >>> to 2007 ...a ten employee office upgrading to O2007 is looking at a lot >>> of >>> money invested in training and conversion costs (jc isn't exaggerating >>> the >>> screen real estate problems and training issues at all) ...and in my >>> case, >>> it doesn't cost them a great deal more to go the VS route and they end >>> up >>> with a lot more flexibility ...things they just could not do with Access >>> and >>> >>> Office are now just a matter of how badly do they want it. >>> >>> ...I'm a long way from being proficient in VS8 Pro or SQL Server but its >>> like back in the days with Access 2 ...you look, you ask, you try and >>> eventually something works ...and every so often the light bulb gets a >>> dim >>> glow :) >>> >>> ...hth >>> >>> William >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Dan Waters" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 8:05 PM >>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>> >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Customers to VB.Net (was: Poll on >>> Access2007) >>> >>>> William, >>>> >>>> I've just gotten started learning VB.Net - and VS 2008 is a pretty nice >>>> tool. So is VB intellisense. I think that MS is trying hard to make >>>> VS >>>> 2008 a tool that developers will like. >>>> >>>> But how did you get your customers to convert? Did you convince them >>>> to >>>> pay >>>> you? I have three customers I would eventually like to convert - could >>>> sure >>>> use some pointers! >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of William >>>> Hindman >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:32 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>> >>>> ...lol ...did it hurt that much? :) >>>> >>>> ...the thing that really blew me away is when they announced that the >>>> Access >>>> >>>> Development Team had been moved out from under the SQL Server group >>>> which >>>> was slowly killing it and into the Office products group ...I track >>>> most >>>> of >>>> the relevant MS blogs and they certainly gave us promises that >>>> everything >>>> would now change for the better ...especially for developers ...that >>>> they >>>> could now deliver all those things that we'd asked for over the years >>>> but >>>> never got ...like an updated DAO ...fixes to longstanding problems >>>> ...transaction fall back ...a reliable JET engine that didn't corrupt >>>> every >>>> time a user nic flickered ...yada, yada, yada ...and reading back >>>> through >>>> those early blogs I'm certain that was their intent. >>>> >>>> ...then the Office products management got involved ...and all the >>>> developer >>>> >>>> promises went out the window one more time ...Access was an OFFICE >>>> product >>>> by god and it WOULD by god conform with OFFICE ...so instead of a new >>>> dao >>>> engine we got a ribbon ...and OFFICE users needed more focus on macros >>>> ...REAL OFFICE PROGRAMMING don't you know ...so we got more macros for >>>> users >>>> >>>> ...now THERE is something I use every freakin' day ...macros ...bloody >>>> cretins and I'm being nice, I am :( >>>> >>>> ...jc mentioned the tabs ...too confusing for OFFICE users eh, get rid >>>> of >>>> such silly stuff, eh >>>> >>>> ...bug fixes? ...hey, lets ADD a few ...nobody really uses this for >>>> real >>>> databases so we won't waste any quality time fixing or testing it, eh >>>> ...just make it pretty and look like the rest of OFFICE ...ta da!!!! >>>> ...look >>>> >>>> everyone ...ACCESS 2007! ...and it has a ribbon just like a REAL Office >>>> product, it does. >>>> >>>> ...I lived through the fiasco that was Access 95 ...stayed with Access >>>> 97 >>>> until Access 2003 finally got it right ...and my intent was to stay >>>> with >>>> Access 2003 until they released A14 with fixes for all the crazy sh*t >>>> they >>>> did with Access 2007 >>>> >>>> ...but no, that's not to be ...the blogs say its here to stay ...A14 >>>> will >>>> give us a "better" ribbon, "better" macro tools, etc, etc ...and >>>> apparently >>>> no one is looking at updating dao anymore ...and of course, they >>>> promise >>>> to >>>> fix the bugs ...just like they promised for every previous version >>>> ...yeah, >>>> right :( >>>> >>>> ...in the meantime, a client pushed me off the high board into the .net >>>> pool >>>> >>>> ...damn near drowned but I got paid well for learning it and hey! >>>> ...Visual >>>> Studio 8 is the developer tool that Access could have been but never >>>> will >>>> be >>>> >>>> ...I'm moving all my work there client by client ...some have to be >>>> dragged >>>> away from Access kicking and screaming but I'm a pretty big boy ...so >>>> like >>> >>>> I >>>> >>>> said, A2003 is it for me ...the guys at VS are Microsofties who >>>> actually >>>> like developers. >>>> >>>> ...they don't insult me ...and I'm into that :) >>>> >>>> William >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Jim Lawrence" >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:10 PM >>>> To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>> >>>>> I do not believe it.... I am agreeing with John and William; AND AT >>>>> THE >>>>> SAME >>>>> TIME. It seems that all developers, who really make their living by >>>>> doing >>>>> development work, have the same song book. >>>>> >>>>> Jim >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:51 AM >>>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 >>>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> Give it a fair go? Hmm... I have work to do. Do you mean spend the >>>>> weeks >>>>> required to figure out >>>>> how to do what I can do without even thinking (it's called muscle >>>>> memory) >>>>> with the previous version? >>>>> >>>>> Well, like I said, I have real work to do. I am a sole proprietor, I >>>>> earn >>>>> all of the money for my >>>>> house, if I don't do real work my kids don't eat. I do not want to >>>>> spend >>>>> the time to completely >>>>> relearn Access because some twit decided that I just need to do that >>>>> and >>>>> too >>>>> bad for me. >>>>> >>>>> What would you tell GM if they tried to sell you a Camaro with the >>>>> accelerator as as a joystick in >>>>> the center console, the brake a pushbutton on the console, the lights >>>>> as >>>>> a >>>>> knee switch, the >>>>> windshield wipers as ... well you get the picture (I HOPE! Hmmm... >>>>> maybe >>>>> not?) THAT is precisely >>>>> what Access has done to the PROGRAMMER INTERFACE with Access 2007. >>>>> >>>>> The POINT is that for 15 years Microsoft has given us Access, with all >>>>> of >>>>> the hot keys, all of the >>>>> menu items, all of the database tabs. We learned that, we memorized >>>>> that, >>>>> we programmed it to >>>>> muscle memory. Suddenly, for no reason other than some nebulous >>>>> "sharepoint >>>>> server will make it all >>>>> better" crapola, it changes. >>>>> >>>>> WHY? You steadfastly refuse to answer that Steve. WHY? What is the >>>>> POINT >>>>> of moving everything >>>>> around? I want YOUR ANSWER STEVE, WHY MOVE THE WORLD AROUND and >>>>> refuse >>>>> to >>>>> allow the programmer to >>>>> get his environment back? And don't EVEN try to feed me some nebulous >>>>> "sharepoint will make it all >>>>> better" crap! >>>>> >>>>> The POINT is that they are doing the same thing to the interfaces of >>>>> all >>>>> the >>>>> other Office >>>>> applications, which are by and large USER APPLICATIONS in their own >>>>> right. >>>>> It makes sense for those >>>>> apps, IF this new ribbon stuff actually improves productivity (and I >>>>> will >>>>> take a pass on commenting >>>>> on that). The POINT is that they want Access to look pretty like Word >>>>> and >>>>> Excel. Well whoopty >>>>> frickin doo! So now we have a pretty Access. Which I promptly have >>>>> to >>>>> turn >>>>> off to get the ACTUAL >>>>> APPLICATION to fit on the screen again. HMMMMMMM!!!!!!! >>>>> >>>>> But Access is decidedly NOT an office USER APPLICATION. Ask a "USER" >>>>> what >>>>> 3rd normal form is and >>>>> enjoy the deer in the headlights look you get back. Ask the "USER" >>>>> what >>>>> a >>>>> PK is, a FK is, an ADO >>>>> recordset is, a DAO object model is, what a recordset, querydef, >>>>> hmm... >>>>> I >>>>> could go on and on. >>>>> Access, from the beginning was about storing DATA in a logical, >>>>> CONSISTENT >>>>> manner, and the USER >>>>> hasn't a clue. >>>>> >>>>> Oh yea, we now get sharepoint server, which is all about lists, I >>>>> remember. >>>>> Everything is a list >>>>> and nobody needs real tables anymore. Tell that to the SQL Server >>>>> guys, >>>>> the >>>>> ORACLE guys. Tell that >>>>> to your BANK, your auto manufacturer, or for that matter to GOOGLE. >>>>> >>>>> For that matter tell that to my client in Bloomfield, Ct where we >>>>> start >>>>> with >>>>> Policy holder, policy, >>>>> claimant, claim, benefits, benefit details (Parent through great great >>>>> great >>>>> grandchild) and that is >>>>> just the beginning of a DATABASE APPLICATION (let me repeat that) A >>>>> DATABASE APPLICATION, that >>>>> completely runs a disability insurance claims center. It contains 150 >>>>> TABLES, ALL OF THEM >>>>> RELATED... Primary keys, foreign keys, all of that stuff that will >>>>> magically not be needed I assume >>>>> with sharepoint server? >>>>> >>>>> Tell my client BTW exactly what of all the magical glitz and glitter >>>>> makes >>>>> 2007 soooooooo worthwhile >>>>> that they need to upgrade, especially when the same old bugs that I >>>>> have >>>>> been telling MS about are >>>>> still there. TEN YEARS LATER the same bugs are still there but we have >>>>> a >>>>> ton >>>>> of magical glitz and >>>>> glitter. >>>>> >>>>> Do you get the idea that I am irritated? Do you get the idea from the >>>>> general response to this >>>>> thread that I am not alone? >>>>> >>>>> C'mon Steve. The move to 2007 is a PITA to the guy that does Access >>>>> for >>>>> a >>>>> living. And now... I >>>>> have to keep the old because most of my clients already have that (and >>>>> are >>>>> refusing to move in >>>>> DROVES I might add) and learn the new just because some TWIT thinks it >>>>> is >>>>> "better". >>>>> >>>>> My ASS! >>>>> >>>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>>> >>>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>>> >>>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>>> >>>>> OK, I am calm now... >>>>> >>>>> Sharepoint? >>>>> >>>>> Ahhhooooommmmmmm.... thisiswhatIdoforaliving.... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve Schapel wrote: >>>>>> John, >>>>>> >>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> From: "jwcolby" >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 1:31 AM >>>>>> >>>>>>> ... Microsoft imposes it on us and is absolutely silent (officially) >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> how to turn it off. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you are concerned about screen real estate, it is very easy, as I >>>>>> think >>>>> >>>>>> you know, to minimise the ribbon until needed. Equally, from the >>>>>> point >>>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> view of the finished deploted application, it is very easy to "turn >>>>>> it >>>>> off", >>>>>> if by that you mean not have a ribbon. So I really can't relate to >>>>>> what >>>>>> you're on about here. >>>>>> >>>>>> It is certainly the case that there has been no easy way to produce >>>>>> customised ribbons within your applications, without a fairly steep >>>>> learning >>>>>> curve. I have seen Microsoft people acknowledge this, and one would >>>>>> be >>>>>> justifiably disappointed if this is not corrected in the near future. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm sorry to just pick one aspect of your post to respond to, but >>>>>> that >>>>>> was >>>>> >>>>>> the part that had me wondering whether you had given it a fair go. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 30 14:38:55 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:38:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne><926482BB467948F081FD9FA9A49E7D61@stevePC><3B69BCC2C9BC464898ED41532A805C7D@SusanOne><82EB70015BAE407DB89BF35EB7B04087@stevePC><4a45c5ac.1818d00a.3a9f.ffffb772@mx.google.com><05277B2BC7D2412E941FF1114BD204DD@stevePC><4a45ecd8.0a1ad00a.6c6a.ffffa7d2@mx.google.com><4A461F33.4000805@colbyconsulting.com><88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC><4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com><1437045222D348768FAF600D95A1096C@creativesystemdesigns.com><157A9773405A49DF95BF3F392CDED704@danwaters><16450BB0AED64C44ACB9E6F656E6C57D@danwaters><9545850ADB90441699D1777C7252CD81@jislaptopdev><5FE205EE6B834D3AA2A148B6F6EEDD0E@SusanOne> <865629CBB54440018606025B4B0A6D18@XPS> Message-ID: <10B7F50162294B38897B0280AC25E747@jislaptopdev> ...simple contract clause dispenses with that ...they get a substantial discount and accept the risks that go with it. William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Dettman" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 9:04 AM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > > "A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be > there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for > a > > one-time payment. " > > At one time I was considering doing this, but a lawyer friend advised me > not to because of that. He said that if I became sick or hurt and unable > to > complete work, it opened the door for lawsuits. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:09 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Retainers (was: Converting . . .) > >> >> Couple questions: >> >> 1) What is, "... the expiration date on the unused retainer,..." > > ========Whatever you agree on. >> >> 2) If you've arranged for a retainer of 30 hours, how do you handle if >> they >> want you to do 50 hours? Or only 10 hours? > > ========50 hours -- they pay you a second retainer. 10 hours -- YOU > WIN!!!! > > A retainer, by acceptable definition is simply a guarantee that you'll be > there to do their work for them, not that you'll do whatever they want for > a > > one-time payment. Unless you both agree, a retainer isn't generally > refundable. However, you'd not let that be a deal breaker with a good > client > > and in this case, it really wouldn't be necessary -- kind of moot really. > It's the one-timers or the guys that call you infrequently where a > retainer > works to your advantage. > > Susan H. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com Tue Jun 30 14:41:12 2009 From: wdhindman at dejpolsystems.com (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:41:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 References: <76D0C5D688C14AAD9DEBA1DF78F6E973@SusanOne> Message-ID: <9BFEA304FF1744A6B988B2D12A641E78@jislaptopdev> ,,,rotflmao ...is it the economy or what? ...creative humor just seems to be popping out all over here :) William -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:04 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Poll on Access 2007 > I am perfectly innocent your honor. ;) It's not like I said, "unbound -- > don't ask don't tell..." or "surrogate keyers make better lovers... " > > Susan H. > > >> Hi Jim >> >> And this is not the first time she does this ... >> >> I can imagine Susan sitting at the computer. "I'm bored. Let's have some >> fun!". A click is heard when the safety pin is pulled - and then ...! > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 14:43:42 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 20:43:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access error In-Reply-To: <4A4A69D0.1040500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <88443EBFF2404A6E966F8153B234FD5A@stevePC> <4A479F78.1040306@colbyconsulting.com> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> <4A4A6377.7010408@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a64ff.0702d00a.3fa9.2343@mx.googl e.com> <4A4A69D0.1040 500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4a4a6af2.0702d00a.4647.293c@mx.google.com> Could you take any more work on though? That is the problem with a one-man band...nicht wahr? Max -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 30 June 2009 20:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error LOL, it is always nice to increase the customer base. As a sole proprietor, and definitely NOT a salesman, I find it difficult to sell my services. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > That sounds really cool and it goes to show that you never, ever know where > things will pop up. > Today, at the charity, we had an email referring to an application we sent > in in 2007 and asking us to make a bid for money. > > Strange world. I am happy for you - genuinely. > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 20:12 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > Max, > > When I lived up in Connecticut I used to go to the local Access user's group > which was hosted at > Microsoft's suite. One day I gave a short and sweet lecture about classes > and frameworks. There > was a gentleman there who heard the lecture and apparently wrote my name > down because three years > later I get a call from him. His business is booming and he no longer has > time to do the database > stuff. > > Not exactly sales, and yet kind of sales, yea. > > The client is doing pretty cool stuff. He gets Medicaid drug invoices, uses > Omnipage and OCR to rip > the stuff out into CSV files, then he imports those csv files into an access > database and does > analysis for his clients. As you might imagine the invoices are all over > the map in terms of > format. My job is to write code to extract this field from this line and > another field from another > line and these 8 fields from the next N lines, and then recognize page > breaks etc. and write them > into a table in a consistent format. > > So far we have identified 5 different formats that I have written extraction > code for, and there > others that he has stumbled across as he works. I write a class for each > format, each class has > logic to find the right field(s) in the right line(s) to get the data out, > and then write the data > back to a standard table. Each class looks very similar to every other such > class except that that > search logic is slightly different, and the "This source field goes in this > destination field" is > slightly different. > > And then of course there is data correction to fix OCR errors. Ones get > turned into L and I, zero > gets turned into o and O etc. I find and fix these errors in the code as I > move the data. > > Fun stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> Aha! So you have been doing SALES. >> >> Well done - picking them up in this economic climate is pretty good. I > hope >> it means that things are getting back to normality. >> >> Max > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 14:58:31 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:58:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPAM-LOW: Re: Access error In-Reply-To: <4a4a6af2.0702d00a.4647.293c@mx.google.com> References: <6294B72AA36F429387FEE3E941E3214B@SusanOne> <57E6E6CA42105A48B977303A2CDC2720081C00D032@WPEXCH22.retail.ad.cmltd.net.au> <9FB017E04E814A548273B361A67F2DEB@stevePC> <000001c9f895$594d1810$0be74830$@spb.ru> <4F4D0690BD1D4C528C7642468B2E5060@stevePC> <99306146F984410A842AFF6FBF1A8083@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8523C4070BFC46319E8DD717ADACAE69@jislaptopdev> <1EB4A46407C84B19AF82F56F8285F7E0@creativesystemdesigns.com> <8EBC90A671C24D368AB102E67EBB0A02@jislaptopdev> <4A496C60.1030106@colbyconsulting.c om> <4a49a0df.1c05d00a.5a17.3f0c@mx.google.com> <4A49F94D.8030601@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a3625.0a04d00a.4217.3a31@mx.google.com> <4A4A3FEF.1030603@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a491e.0a04d00a.45af.4cb6@mx.google.com> <4A4A6377.7010408@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a64ff.0702d00a.3fa9.2343@mx.googl e.com> <4A4A69D0.1040 500@colbyconsulting.com> <4a4a6af2.0702d00a.4647.293c@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A6E67.2060000@colbyconsulting.com> Verdad amigo. The bigger problem is that the work comes in spurts. Either no one needs anything or everyone needs something. It is a constant balancing act "who needs the time the most". The losers aren't happy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Max Wanadoo wrote: > Could you take any more work on though? > > That is the problem with a one-man band...nicht wahr? > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 30 June 2009 20:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error > > LOL, it is always nice to increase the customer base. As a sole proprietor, > and definitely NOT a > salesman, I find it difficult to sell my services. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Max Wanadoo wrote: >> That sounds really cool and it goes to show that you never, ever know > where >> things will pop up. >> Today, at the charity, we had an email referring to an application we sent >> in in 2007 and asking us to make a bid for money. >> >> Strange world. I am happy for you - genuinely. >> >> Max >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 30 June 2009 20:12 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access error >> >> Max, >> >> When I lived up in Connecticut I used to go to the local Access user's > group >> which was hosted at >> Microsoft's suite. One day I gave a short and sweet lecture about classes >> and frameworks. There >> was a gentleman there who heard the lecture and apparently wrote my name >> down because three years >> later I get a call from him. His business is booming and he no longer has >> time to do the database >> stuff. >> >> Not exactly sales, and yet kind of sales, yea. >> >> The client is doing pretty cool stuff. He gets Medicaid drug invoices, > uses >> Omnipage and OCR to rip >> the stuff out into CSV files, then he imports those csv files into an > access >> database and does >> analysis for his clients. As you might imagine the invoices are all over >> the map in terms of >> format. My job is to write code to extract this field from this line and >> another field from another >> line and these 8 fields from the next N lines, and then recognize page >> breaks etc. and write them >> into a table in a consistent format. >> >> So far we have identified 5 different formats that I have written > extraction >> code for, and there >> others that he has stumbled across as he works. I write a class for each >> format, each class has >> logic to find the right field(s) in the right line(s) to get the data out, >> and then write the data >> back to a standard table. Each class looks very similar to every other > such >> class except that that >> search logic is slightly different, and the "This source field goes in > this >> destination field" is >> slightly different. >> >> And then of course there is data correction to fix OCR errors. Ones get >> turned into L and I, zero >> gets turned into o and O etc. I find and fix these errors in the code as > I >> move the data. >> >> Fun stuff. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Max Wanadoo wrote: >>> Aha! So you have been doing SALES. >>> >>> Well done - picking them up in this economic climate is pretty good. I >> hope >>> it means that things are getting back to normality. >>> >>> Max From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Jun 30 08:24:32 2009 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:24:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access I love it Message-ID: <4A4A1210.4080103@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Often Access totally surprises me. I have an application that uses split screens and 3 synched timer forms. The idea was to allow management to input/update data and it would be displayed to the employees on the floor. Initially I ran into problems with the timers and what Windows was running in the background. Brought in a friend of mine who is a hardware/software guru. He turned a lot of stuff off. Since then the app has been running flawlessly for 7 months now and everyone is happy. They visually have the information they need. My point Is Access a User's program or a true Developer's program? From max.wanadoo at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 15:19:05 2009 From: max.wanadoo at gmail.com (Max Wanadoo) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:19:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access I love it In-Reply-To: <4A4A1210.4080103@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4A4A1210.4080103@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4a4a733c.0a1ad00a.69bb.404b@mx.google.com> Tony, IMO it is both. That is, perhaps, a mixed blessing. But it can be a user's program but it also has the power for developers to produce solutions which bring bottom-line benefits to organisations, whether economic or service related. Same question to Excel or Word...Same question to Emails... Max Ps. Love your scenario. I thought of doing something like this to display widgets progessing through a JIT shop floor. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: 30 June 2009 14:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access I love it Hey All Often Access totally surprises me. I have an application that uses split screens and 3 synched timer forms. The idea was to allow management to input/update data and it would be displayed to the employees on the floor. Initially I ran into problems with the timers and what Windows was running in the background. Brought in a friend of mine who is a hardware/software guru. He turned a lot of stuff off. Since then the app has been running flawlessly for 7 months now and everyone is happy. They visually have the information they need. My point Is Access a User's program or a true Developer's program? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Jun 30 16:31:23 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:31:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access I love it In-Reply-To: <4a4a733c.0a1ad00a.69bb.404b@mx.google.com> References: <4A4A1210.4080103@nanaimo.ark.com> <4a4a733c.0a1ad00a.69bb.404b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Tony, I was going to say just what Max said! Also - go to www.databaseadvisors.com and download a copy of a chart I made last year. It's titled 'Microsoft Access Skill Zones' - see if that resonates with your experience. Keep having fun! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access I love it Tony, IMO it is both. That is, perhaps, a mixed blessing. But it can be a user's program but it also has the power for developers to produce solutions which bring bottom-line benefits to organisations, whether economic or service related. Same question to Excel or Word...Same question to Emails... Max Ps. Love your scenario. I thought of doing something like this to display widgets progessing through a JIT shop floor. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jun 30 16:51:07 2009 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:51:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access I love it In-Reply-To: References: <4A4A1210.4080103@nanaimo.ark.com> <4a4a733c.0a1ad00a.69bb.404b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A88CB.3000005@colbyconsulting.com> Well NOW I'M MAD. Your chart calls me a nubee? ;) BTW, Access routinely allows me to get into trouble. What is a tad intimidating is how many of the mentioned skills I do not have. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi Tony, > > I was going to say just what Max said! > > Also - go to www.databaseadvisors.com and download a copy of a chart I made > last year. It's titled 'Microsoft Access Skill Zones' - see if that > resonates with your experience. > > Keep having fun! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:19 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access I love it > > Tony, IMO it is both. That is, perhaps, a mixed blessing. But it can be a > user's program but it also has the power for developers to produce > solutions which bring bottom-line benefits to organisations, whether > economic or service related. > > Same question to Excel or Word...Same question to Emails... > > Max > Ps. Love your scenario. I thought of doing something like this to display > widgets progessing through a JIT shop floor. > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jun 30 17:17:38 2009 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:17:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT-AVAYA Auto-Attendent In-Reply-To: <4a4a38f4.0a04d00a.4302.3684@mx.google.com> References: <38c884770906292356j4fae0225mb368e197027db9c2@mail.gmail.com>, <4A49CAB3.700.1A8BC01E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4a4a38f4.0a04d00a.4302.3684@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4A4A8F02.23481.1D8A975A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's needed if PayNo is a string. If it is numeric, you don't want the single quotes in there. On 30 Jun 2009 at 17:10, Max Wanadoo wrote: > ..or.. > > strSQL = "SELECT PayNo " & _ > "FROM OurPersonnelTable " & > WHERE PayNo = '" & $KEY & "';" > > I have put two single quotes within the string to delimit $Key. Either this > or Stuart's posting should work > > Max > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: 30 June 2009 09:20 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT-AVAYA Auto-Attendent > > It;s looking for a PayNo which consists of the string "$Key" > > build your string as: > > strSQL = "SELECT PayNo " & _ > "FROM OurPersonnelTable " & > WHERE PayNo = " & $KEY & ";" > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Jun 2009 at 7:56, Paul Hartland wrote: > > > To all, > > > > Sorry for the OT, but didn't know where to post this. We have AVAYA > > telephone systems, and an auto-attendent manager (think it's called > > VoiceMail Pro Client). Where we can setup a number, then the user gets > the > > pre-recorded messages, with options etc, bit like most auto-mated call > > centres. > > > > I have a number, which when dialled will ask me for a payrol number, it > then > > repeats the payroll number. I then open a coonection to our employees > > database, and have a simple select query like below : > > > > SELECT PayNo > > FROM OurPersonnelTable > > WHERE (PayNo = "$KEY") ; > > > > The payroll number I am entering is a dummy one, which has a record setup > > for my details (PayNo 999999), But the select for some reason is always > > failing. > > > > Anyone had any experience of this, and could point me to reference > > sites/manuals etc > > > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Hartland > > paul.hartland at googlemail.com > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Jun 30 18:27:14 2009 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:27:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access I love it In-Reply-To: <4A4A88CB.3000005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4A4A1210.4080103@nanaimo.ark.com> <4a4a733c.0a1ad00a.69bb.404b@mx.google.com> <4A4A88CB.3000005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <728BA6E6ED9A40C4AECC61240B69E149@danwaters> ROTFLMAO!!!!! Oops! - I forgot to put 'Framework' at the top of the list! And if you get in trouble - no IT person could hope to know enough to rescue you! Hah! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access I love it Well NOW I'M MAD. Your chart calls me a nubee? ;) BTW, Access routinely allows me to get into trouble. What is a tad intimidating is how many of the mentioned skills I do not have. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > Hi Tony, > > I was going to say just what Max said! > > Also - go to www.databaseadvisors.com and download a copy of a chart I made > last year. It's titled 'Microsoft Access Skill Zones' - see if that > resonates with your experience. > > Keep having fun! > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Max Wanadoo > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:19 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access I love it > > Tony, IMO it is both. That is, perhaps, a mixed blessing. But it can be a > user's program but it also has the power for developers to produce > solutions which bring bottom-line benefits to organisations, whether > economic or service related. > > Same question to Excel or Word...Same question to Emails... > > Max > Ps. Love your scenario. I thought of doing something like this to display > widgets progessing through a JIT shop floor. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com