[AccessD] Learning .Net

Drew Wutka DWUTKA at Marlow.com
Tue Jun 23 17:06:25 CDT 2009


We'll just have to agree to disagree here Jim.  While it is free to use
SQL Express, and it does have advantages over JET and an .mdb, there are
still advantages the other way:

It's an .mdb, you don't need Access installed to use it.  A web server
with ASP and ADO is all you need.  It's a single file, you can copy,
swap, or change the .mdb with just that file.  (No detaching and
reattaching of a database).  It's less resource intensive....more
features, more resources.  Jet runs great on a local machine, which is
what happens when you put an .mdb on a webserver, it's local.
Development is easier with all the nifty Access tools.  Access' query
builder is way easier to use then Enterprise manager's query builder.

Again, not saying there aren't advantages the other way, just saying
that I don't think you can truly say one situation is better in all
cases.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:47 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net

Hi Drew:

That is definitely a good secure way to connect to a MDB database. 

As MS SQL Express is now free there is no reason to not use it. The SQL
engine has so many more features in it that make superior choice for
internet work.

We are both in agreement with unbound applications. It is just that the
MDB
does not work well in complex multi-users environments, when it is
unbound
while SQL is designed to be unbound.
  
Jim 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 1:00 PM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net

Hmmm, misconception about the .mdb behind the web.

It all depends how you have the folder structure and IIS setup.

For instance, let's say I setup a webserver with an E: drive.  I setup
the following folders:

E:\InternetSite

E:\InternetMDB

If the web users only get access to the files on E:\InternetSite, but my
code works with an .mdb located in InternetMDB, the database is not
'open' to the world.  Now, admittedly, if you can hack through a
firewall and IIS, to get local folder access to a webserver....well, you
should be making huge bucks! ;)

I am not saying that an .mdb should always be used, there are still
advantages to using SQL Server behind a website.  However, a lot of the
disadvantages of an .mdb go away, when used as a 'local' mdb on a
webserver.  'Multiple connections' are really seen as one user in the
database.  Unless your website has hundreds of simultaneous users doing
something at the same time, an .mdb can handle quite a load.  In an
optimized database, reads are lightning fast, and writes are pretty
snappy too.  Want to see how much data an .mdb can handle, and how fast?
Go ahead and setup web logging to an ODBC .mdb.  That thing will run
like a champ!  And using ADO's Jet OLE driver, wow.

Also, for future discussions on this, keep in mind I almost never create
'bound' applications (not in the last 7 or 8 years at least).

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:40 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net

Hi Drew:

The reason that MS SQL/SQL express is used in place of the MDB is not as
simple as moving from bound to unbound. MS SQL is specifically designed
to
be in an unbound data environment and the MDB is not... just ask John if
you
do not agree with me. ;-) 

It handles multiple users (like multiple users accessing the same data
at
the same time etc), queued transactions, multi-step transaction, all
with
full security and performance (like handling thousands of anonymous
hits). 

Having a MDB database is exposing all your data as the MDB can just be
copied straight off the website. On the other hand MS SQL can not be
stored
at a website as it is one step removed from the web site, protected
through
your IIS or Apache server and therefore safer. 

If you do not believe me try out the free OpenSource web base extraction
app
called Back-street Browser (http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet ) just to
see
how fast you can backup your website... or anyone's website for that
matter.

Jim
 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:07 AM
To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net

I concur, about Oracle and SQL Server. We have both here at work.  While
Oracle is a fine server side database, if I had my choice, I would
develop in SQL Server (or Access) first.  Oracle to SQL Server, in my
view, is similar to Unix to Windows.  There are advantages both ways,
but to favor one or the other is usually due to experience and mindset.

Susan and I wrote an article about using an .mdb behind a website.  It
is a common misconception that an .mdb is 'less stable' then SQL Server.
As a network database, yes, there are issues to overcome.  That is
because an .mdb is a single file, with no server side database engine.
But if the .mdb is on a web server, it actually becomes a single point
of entry db.  It will run faster then a SQL Server (except for full text
indexing), because it requires a fraction of the overhead of a SQL
Server.

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl
Collins
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Learning .Net

"Why SQL Server and not Oracle?????"

aaaakkkkkgh...  For lotsa techie info on why what where and who, Google
" Oracle vs SQL Server"

For me, it is sheer ease of use, and the fact that SQL Server logic
largely makes sense where as Oracle (like the name suggests) seems to
involve elements of faith or belief (or disbelief - IMHO of course).
For example the Oracle NULL seems gibberish to me:

For example:

"Though common sense leads us to conclusion that a basket with one apple
is clearly different from a basket without apples, in Oracle they are
not different. 

So the empty basket is not different from a non-empty one, but then
again, they are also not the same. Putting all that in one sentence, the
empty is not equal to anything, nor different from anything, including
nothing. It is a bit painful, isn't it?

In theory, any binary operation involving NULL will also give NULL, but
even that is not consistent. Add NULL to 1 and you will get NULL, but
concatenate NULL to 'Donald' and you will get 'Donald'. NULL and empty
string, as far as Oracle is concerned, are the same (but then again, not
equal). And, to make things worse, there are EMPTY_CLOB and EMPTY_BLOB.
Clobs and Blobs are strange enough for themselves, but EMPTY versions
exist only to make our life harder." - From
http://www.orafaq.com/node/1023

uh huh... make a lot sense?  I didn't think so...

Besides you can download, install and run SQL Server Express 2008 for
free - and my word, what a fantastic product it is.  Sure it is missing
a few bells and whistles that the enterprise version has, but for most
folks doing database stuff it has plenty of grunt under the hood.  Rock
solid, easy to integrate into existing Excel and Access Front ends and
frankly a joy to use.

It also runs great on low specced PC's.  I have it installed on my Dell
Lattitude D600 which is years old now (2GB RAM on XP Pro), and SQL
Server just sings along. Process data much faster than having an Access
BE - I was suprised, but the speed and stability speak for themselves.

As for Oracle - well, I am note quite a member of the "I Hate Oracle"
club, but one does exist. And the computer science guy I sit next to at
work can give you plenty of reasons why Oracle stinks if you want me to
press him on it. :)

cheers
Darryl.

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