[AccessD] Deploying Runtime

Andy Lacey andy at minstersystems.co.uk
Sun Jan 24 16:36:50 CST 2010


Ok, thanks for that Doug

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy
Sent: 24 January 2010 18:25
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime


Hello Andy,

With the scripts for Wise or Instalshield you had to purchase either Wise or
Instalshield and then purchase the script that Sagekey developed to creat
the installation package with which ever install package you had. I am not
familiar with the MSI product but Sagekey indicated in one of their mailings
that this was the approach to use now. Their wizard may use this technology
to create the installation package. As I indicate, I have not used it so
can't comment. I only have experience with the script for Wise Installer 9.
I do have faith in Sagekey products to produce reliable installation
packages which ever one you choose. 


Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 2:08 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

That's encourgaing Doug. I'm a little unclear though what I'd be buying from
here http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx . You speak of Sagekey
scripts. Is that different from the Sagekey Deployment Wizard then? I had
assumed the wizard was a tool they supplied to generate the scripts but
maybe not. If I click "Buy" on that link am I buying the ability to use
either method?

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy
Sent: 23 January 2010 20:30
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime


Andy,

We are still using the Access 2002 runtime with Wise and the most current
Sagekey scripts that take into account Vista, and I assume Win. 07 security
issues. We have stayed with 2002 because that is where our investment is and
don't need any of the new features. We have not had any issues with Vista
installs or with installs of our package in Windows 07. The reason for using
the Sagekey scripts is that then your application can run on  a machine with
other versions of Office installed and not cause the issue with Office
trying to reinstall every time you run another version of one of its
applications. The scripts also install all the runtime stuff in a separate
directory so they don't get overwritten or interfere with anything else.
Just be aware that they accomplish the compatiblity stuff by opening your
application through a little program called runAccess.exe, in our version
anyway. This takes care of registry settings, security and what ever else
needs tweeking. The shortcut their installation puts on the desktop goes to
this program with the proper keys, etc. If you look at the shortcut you can
figure out what it does.

There have been issues with the Access installation wizard in past versions.
Not sure if that is true now.

Doug 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:00 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

Now I'm getting worried. Will the "Sagekey Access 2007 Deployment Wizard"
install my app on any machine, whatever its OS, and whether or not it
already has Access installed? Oh and if it does already have Access will it
behave itself and not upset the existing installation?

If I can't guarantee that it's a non-starter.

Rocky, you must have this issue with your product. Do all of your installs
run smoothly or do some get problems?

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: 23 January 2010 19:39
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime


Rocky, 

  That's part of it, and a big one, but they also handle the permission
system issues very well also..

Yea the Sagekey Access 2007 Deployment Wizard works well, but it is not
ANYWHERE near as flexible as the Wise / Sagekey solution, which is of course
not recommended for Windows 7 (and for me Vista) Installations.

They have also chosen, IMO, some really odd default path structures for
Windows XP installations. (They choose the "C:\Documents and Settings\All
Users\AppData\....." for the <COMMON_APP_DATA> Variable). Which in my case
will not work because the string that is created is too long for a windows
desktop shortcut.

I've talked with them about it, and suggested that they make the Windows XP
location user adjustable, but they claim that it will destroy the
foundations of programming and won't make the change.. I keep saying it
won't make one bit a difference on a Windows XP installation, but alas they
won't budge... :-)

They are currently working on their 2010 version.


WBR
Robert


-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:16 PM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

Sounds like I may be a bit behind the curve on Sagekey's product line.  Doug
says you can use their script for MSI - but IIRC there's some problem with
MSI that the Wise/Sagekey combo finesses and I think it has to do with
multiple version of Access on the same box with the run time or perhaps any
version of Access and the runtime coexisting.  But I can't remember exactly.

R
 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:32 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

Ok, so I need Sagekey to create the script (wow, lot of money for a script!)
and then Wise to do the actual install. Clear. And you say Sagekey provides
the Access runtime files too? So, I develop my Access system as normal and
need nothing other then Sagekey and Wise to deploy it. Is that right? Then
my 'only' problem is that I don't have a version of Access later than 2002!
Damn.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: 23 January 2010 16:55
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime


Andy:

Yeah you still need Wise.  I believe Sagekey supplies you with all the
Access files you need.  Mostly those run-time files are stuff in Access
already.  The runtime, IIUC, is a subset of Access - just the stuff you need
to run an mdb or mde without the files you need to do development - no
design view of anything.

The script you buy from Sagekey is a Wise script and like a template - very
well commented so you can easily modify it for your own purposes.  I was
able to do it with a bit of help from their tech support - which is
excellent, BTW - and didn't really have to learn the Wise scripting
language. 

I have the script for 2003.  I think they'll still sell it.  

Doug Murphy also is a user of the Wise/Sagekey combo and he can answer
questions probably better than I.

Rocky


-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:13 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

Thanks Rocky
I've been to the Sagekey site
http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx . The Lite and Pro versions
appear to be complete installers which bypass the need for Access Deployment
but presumably you still nned the Access Runtime. But you still need Wise,
right? Sorry to be dense but can you briefly take me through what I need and
the steps involved in building an installation? 


I also note they refer to a single license for Access 2007. What if I'm
using an earlier version of Access? Any idea?

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin
Sent: 23 January 2010 14:59
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime


I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for years with no problems.  For that
many installs it's probably well worth the bucks.

Rocky
 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:42 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

Hi all
I know this has been kicked around before so apoogies for raising it again
but time's moved on so the current situation may have too. Anyway, a quick
look at the the archives didn't illuminate me.

I'm proposing to take an app written in Excel and rewrite it in Access.
Problem is that it will need distributing to 200+ machines Europe-wide, most
of which won't have Access. Now I haven't used Access Runtime for about 15
years so am well out-of-date and could do with an update. I guess my
questions are;

1. Any chance of me getting hold of whatever's needed (Access Developer
Edition is it?) to create runtimes for older versions (Access 2000, 2002)?

Have in fact just looked and there's a copy of "Microsoft Office 2000
Developer Tools for PC" on ebay in UK. Is that what I need? There's a copy
of "Microsoft Office XP 2002 Developer 269-04560 COMMERCIAL" too. Is that
the 2002 equivalent? If I buy either/both of these am I getting the right
software?

2.If I get those is that all I need? I've seen a post on a forum which says,
and I quote:
"There can definitely be conflicts when installing ART to machines with full
versions of Access. I use the 2002 ART and deploy those apps with the Wise
Installer and use Sagekey scripts (www.sagekey.com) ... this script is
designed specificially to install my application with the ART on a machine
with an exisiting version of Access so that they can both co-exist. They're
not cheap - the scripts are around $400 USD, the Wise installer runs between
$400-$1000 USD - but they make your life a lot easier. Since switching to
these scripts and the Wise Installer, my support calls for installation have
been reduced to almost nothing; "

Do others back up this experience?

Id appreciate you guys' wise advice as always.

Andy



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