[AccessD] Deploying Runtime

You are either doing very simple installs in default locations or you have a guardian angel on speed dial.  Even a different operating system can knock the packaging wizard sideways.

Charlotte Foust

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 6:59 AM
To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime

I don't do 1500/year - I've probably done nearly 1000 total.  That includes
CDs I send to current clients to re-install themselves.
I have no control over anything at the user site.

Not one single installation problem...

Reuben Cummings
GFC, LLC
812.523.1017


> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:00 PM
> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
>
>
> I agree with Charlotte. Not sure what kind of distribution
> numbers, but when
> you're talking over 1500 installs a year, it had better be
> "Rock Solid"
> across every kind of situation...
>
> My users / potential customers can't handle problems of any
> kind, the last
> thing you want is a problem right off the bat, during an install.. ;-(
>
> WBR
> Robert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Charlotte Foust
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:36 PM
> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
>
> You've been incredibly lucky then, Reuben.  I gave up on the
> wizard around
> Access 2.0 and switched to InstallShield to get done what I
> needed.  I found
> the wizard in 97 and 2000 no improvement.
>
> Charlotte Foust
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Reuben Cummings
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 6:58 AM
> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
>
> I hate to leave what continues to work...
>
> Still running A2000.  Have always used the built in Package
> and Deployment
> Wizard without failure.
> And my installs co-exist with other versions of Access
> without trouble.
> Newer versions are installed in folders numbered to indicate
> their version
> and the runtime will install in a folder named ART.
> The only problem, which I have never had, is that the user
> has A2000 at
> installation time so runtime does not install and the user
> then upgrades and
> removes 2000 in the process.
>
> Reuben Cummings
> GFC, LLC
> 812.523.1017
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Andy Lacey
> > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 4:06 PM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> >
> > Given that I'm going to have to move to a newer version of
> > Access in order
> > to get some solid deployment tool can someone remind me which
> > are the good,
> > the bad and the ugly Access versions since, say, A2000?
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> John Bartow
> > Sent: 24 January 2010 23:18
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> >
> > Hi Andy,
> > Have used Wise/Sagekey for years now and was the answer to
> > all of these
> > issues. Now, as Doug mentioned, Wise recommends theirs MSI
> > Script rather
> > than their Wise scrip. This is because Wise had been bought
> > by two companies
> > in the last couple of years. The first was committed to it -
> > the second is
> > Symantec and they seem to have no desire to carry on the Wise
> > installer
> > excellence. (Is that a surprise to anyone?)
> >
> > Given my experiences with Barry and the Sagekey group I'd
> > highly recommend
> > you contact them for all of your installers needs.
> >
> > John B
> > PS I get no kickbacks from this ;o)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Doug Murphy
> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:25 PM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > Hello Andy,
> >
> > With the scripts for Wise or Instalshield you had to purchase
> > either Wise or
> > Instalshield and then purchase the script that Sagekey
> > developed to creat
> > the installation package with which ever install package you
> > had. I am not
> > familiar with the MSI product but Sagekey indicated in one of
> > their mailings
> > that this was the approach to use now. Their wizard may use
> > this technology
> > to create the installation package. As I indicate, I have not
> > used it so
> > can't comment. I only have experience with the script for
> > Wise Installer 9.
> > I do have faith in Sagekey products to produce reliable installation
> > packages which ever one you choose.
> >
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Andy Lacey
> > Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 2:08 AM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > That's encourgaing Doug. I'm a little unclear though what I'd
> > be buying from
> > here http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx . You
> > speak of Sagekey
> > scripts. Is that different from the Sagekey Deployment Wizard
> > then? I had
> > assumed the wizard was a tool they supplied to generate the
> > scripts but
> > maybe not. If I click "Buy" on that link am I buying the
> > ability to use
> > either method?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Doug Murphy
> > Sent: 23 January 2010 20:30
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> >
> > Andy,
> >
> > We are still using the Access 2002 runtime with Wise and the
> > most current
> > Sagekey scripts that take into account Vista, and I assume
> > Win. 07 security
> > issues. We have stayed with 2002 because that is where our
> > investment is and
> > don't need any of the new features. We have not had any
> > issues with Vista
> > installs or with installs of our package in Windows 07. The
> > reason for using
> > the Sagekey scripts is that then your application can run on
> > a machine with
> > other versions of Office installed and not cause the issue
> with Office
> > trying to reinstall every time you run another version of one of its
> > applications. The scripts also install all the runtime stuff
> > in a separate
> > directory so they don't get overwritten or interfere with
> > anything else.
> > Just be aware that they accomplish the compatiblity stuff by
> > opening your
> > application through a little program called runAccess.exe, in
> > our version
> > anyway. This takes care of registry settings, security and
> > what ever else
> > needs tweeking. The shortcut their installation puts on the
> > desktop goes to
> > this program with the proper keys, etc. If you look at the
> > shortcut you can
> > figure out what it does.
> >
> > There have been issues with the Access installation wizard in
> > past versions.
> > Not sure if that is true now.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Andy Lacey
> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:00 PM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > Now I'm getting worried. Will the "Sagekey Access 2007
> > Deployment Wizard"
> > install my app on any machine, whatever its OS, and whether
> or not it
> > already has Access installed? Oh and if it does already have
> > Access will it
> > behave itself and not upset the existing installation?
> >
> > If I can't guarantee that it's a non-starter.
> >
> > Rocky, you must have this issue with your product. Do all of
> > your installs
> > run smoothly or do some get problems?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert
> > Sent: 23 January 2010 19:39
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> >
> > Rocky,
> >
> >   That's part of it, and a big one, but they also handle the
> > permission
> > system issues very well also..
> >
> > Yea the Sagekey Access 2007 Deployment Wizard works well, but
> > it is not
> > ANYWHERE near as flexible as the Wise / Sagekey solution,
> > which is of course
> > not recommended for Windows 7 (and for me Vista) Installations.
> >
> > They have also chosen, IMO, some really odd default path
> > structures for
> > Windows XP installations. (They choose the "C:\Documents and
> > Settings\All
> > Users\AppData\....." for the <COMMON_APP_DATA> Variable).
> > Which in my case
> > will not work because the string that is created is too long
> > for a windows
> > desktop shortcut.
> >
> > I've talked with them about it, and suggested that they make
> > the Windows XP
> > location user adjustable, but they claim that it will destroy the
> > foundations of programming and won't make the change.. I keep
> > saying it
> > won't make one bit a difference on a Windows XP installation,
> > but alas they
> > won't budge... :-)
> >
> > They are currently working on their 2010 version.
> >
> >
> > WBR
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Rocky Smolin
> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:16 PM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > Sounds like I may be a bit behind the curve on Sagekey's
> > product line.  Doug
> > says you can use their script for MSI - but IIRC there's some
> > problem with
> > MSI that the Wise/Sagekey combo finesses and I think it has
> to do with
> > multiple version of Access on the same box with the run time
> > or perhaps any
> > version of Access and the runtime coexisting.  But I can't
> > remember exactly.
> >
> > R
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Andy Lacey
> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 9:32 AM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > Ok, so I need Sagekey to create the script (wow, lot of money
> > for a script!)
> > and then Wise to do the actual install. Clear. And you say
> > Sagekey provides
> > the Access runtime files too? So, I develop my Access system
> > as normal and
> > need nothing other then Sagekey and Wise to deploy it. Is
> > that right? Then
> > my 'only' problem is that I don't have a version of Access
> > later than 2002!
> > Damn.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Rocky Smolin
> > Sent: 23 January 2010 16:55
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> >
> > Andy:
> >
> > Yeah you still need Wise.  I believe Sagekey supplies you
> with all the
> > Access files you need.  Mostly those run-time files are stuff
> > in Access
> > already.  The runtime, IIUC, is a subset of Access - just the
> > stuff you need
> > to run an mdb or mde without the files you need to do
> development - no
> > design view of anything.
> >
> > The script you buy from Sagekey is a Wise script and like a
> > template - very
> > well commented so you can easily modify it for your own
> > purposes.  I was
> > able to do it with a bit of help from their tech support - which is
> > excellent, BTW - and didn't really have to learn the Wise scripting
> > language.
> >
> > I have the script for 2003.  I think they'll still sell it.
> >
> > Doug Murphy also is a user of the Wise/Sagekey combo and he
> can answer
> > questions probably better than I.
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Andy Lacey
> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 8:13 AM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > Thanks Rocky
> > I've been to the Sagekey site
> > http://www.sagekey.com/installation_access.aspx . The Lite
> > and Pro versions
> > appear to be complete installers which bypass the need for
> > Access Deployment
> > but presumably you still nned the Access Runtime. But you
> > still need Wise,
> > right? Sorry to be dense but can you briefly take me through
> > what I need and
> > the steps involved in building an installation?
> >
> >
> > I also note they refer to a single license for Access 2007.
> > What if I'm
> > using an earlier version of Access? Any idea?
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> > Rocky Smolin
> > Sent: 23 January 2010 14:59
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> >
> > I have used the Wise/Sagekey combo for years with no
> > problems.  For that
> > many installs it's probably well worth the bucks.
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com
> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of
> Andy Lacey
> > Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2010 6:42 AM
> > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'
> > Subject: [AccessD] Deploying Runtime
> >
> > Hi all
> > I know this has been kicked around before so apoogies for
> > raising it again
> > but time's moved on so the current situation may have too.
> > Anyway, a quick
> > look at the the archives didn't illuminate me.
> >
> > I'm proposing to take an app written in Excel and rewrite it
> > in Access.
> > Problem is that it will need distributing to 200+ machines
> > Europe-wide, most
> > of which won't have Access. Now I haven't used Access Runtime
> > for about 15
> > years so am well out-of-date and could do with an update. I guess my
> > questions are;
> >
> > 1. Any chance of me getting hold of whatever's needed (Access
> > Developer
> > Edition is it?) to create runtimes for older versions (Access
> > 2000, 2002)?
> >
> > Have in fact just looked and there's a copy of "Microsoft
> Office 2000
> > Developer Tools for PC" on ebay in UK. Is that what I need?
> > There's a copy
> > of "Microsoft Office XP 2002 Developer 269-04560 COMMERCIAL"
> > too. Is that
> > the 2002 equivalent? If I buy either/both of these am I
> > getting the right
> > software?
> >
> > 2.If I get those is that all I need? I've seen a post on a
> > forum which says,
> > and I quote:
> > "There can definitely be conflicts when installing ART to
> > machines with full
> > versions of Access. I use the 2002 ART and deploy those apps
> > with the Wise
> > Installer and use Sagekey scripts (www.sagekey.com) ...
> this script is
> > designed specificially to install my application with the ART
> > on a machine
> > with an exisiting version of Access so that they can both
> > co-exist. They're
> > not cheap - the scripts are around $400 USD, the Wise
> > installer runs between
> > $400-$1000 USD - but they make your life a lot easier. Since
> > switching to
> > these scripts and the Wise Installer, my support calls for
> > installation have
> > been reduced to almost nothing; "
> >
> > Do others back up this experience?
> >
> > Id appreciate you guys' wise advice as always.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
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