From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Jul 1 00:32:35 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:32:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break Message-ID: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005> Dear List: I added a feature to my app to automatically release a bunch of work orders. Client loved it. Then the client wanted to have the Kit List printed for each work order released - no problem, client loved it. Now since many of these reports take only 1/3 to 1/2 page, the client requests that they be printed without the page break - save a tree. But I'm not sure how to accomplish this. I suppose I could make the Kit List report a subreport in the detail section of a report, the record source of which would be the list or work orders to print the kit lists for, but I'm not sure that would work. Any ideas? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jul 2 19:09:54 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 17:09:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <0A16A42B3C2B4863B91967C1C408E94B@HAL9005> Dear list(s): Max is home for the summer. His dell laptop has Windows 7. He has internet access but cannot connect to any of the machines on the home network (or therefore install a network printer which is what led us to this problem to begin with). Clicking on Network displays all of the computers except my Windows XP box (which I would like his box to see because I have the best printer local to my WXP box). When he tries to open any of the displayed comps (they're all shared - I can access any of them from any of my other boxes), he gets a message "Windows cannot access (name of computer). His workgroup name is WORKGROUP - same as all the network boxes. Where should I start to figure out why he can't see the other boxes on the network? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Jul 2 19:35:04 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 10:35:04 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break In-Reply-To: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005> References: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4C2E85B8.8834.43B8809@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's exactly the way I do it - embed them as sub-reports in a "wrapper" report. -- Stuart On 30 Jun 2010 at 22:32, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I added a feature to my app to automatically release a bunch of work orders. > Client loved it. > > Then the client wanted to have the Kit List printed for each work order > released - no problem, client loved it. > > Now since many of these reports take only 1/3 to 1/2 page, the client > requests that they be printed without the page break - save a tree. But I'm > not sure how to accomplish this. I suppose I could make the Kit List report > a subreport in the detail section of a report, the record source of which > would be the list or work orders to print the kit lists for, but I'm not > sure that would work. Any ideas? > > > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jul 2 22:44:33 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 20:44:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break In-Reply-To: <4C2E85B8.8834.43B8809@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005> <4C2E85B8.8834.43B8809@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <96706412C23A44CF946E8B848CAE7561@HAL9005> Well, it's really one report run many times for different parts. Think of it as a bill of materials report. I pass the assembly part number to the report and it runs. As each work orders are opened automatically, the Kit List for the work order is printed. So it's really just one report run many times for different assemblies. That's where I'm a bit stumped. If it was a bunch of different reports, I could make each one a sub report. But it's the same report. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break That's exactly the way I do it - embed them as sub-reports in a "wrapper" report. -- Stuart On 30 Jun 2010 at 22:32, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I added a feature to my app to automatically release a bunch of work orders. > Client loved it. > > Then the client wanted to have the Kit List printed for each work > order released - no problem, client loved it. > > Now since many of these reports take only 1/3 to 1/2 page, the client > requests that they be printed without the page break - save a tree. > But I'm not sure how to accomplish this. I suppose I could make the > Kit List report a subreport in the detail section of a report, the > record source of which would be the list or work orders to print the > kit lists for, but I'm not sure that would work. Any ideas? > > > > MTIA, > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jul 2 23:28:18 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 21:28:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> Various forums say that the error I'm getting is because I need to enable Client for Microsoft Networks in network properties but I can't figure out how to do that in Windows 7. Anybody know how? MTIA Rocky _____ From: Rocky Smolin [mailto:rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List (dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com); 'Off Topic' Subject: Network Problem Dear list(s): Max is home for the summer. His dell laptop has Windows 7. He has internet access but cannot connect to any of the machines on the home network (or therefore install a network printer which is what led us to this problem to begin with). Clicking on Network displays all of the computers except my Windows XP box (which I would like his box to see because I have the best printer local to my WXP box). When he tries to open any of the displayed comps (they're all shared - I can access any of them from any of my other boxes), he gets a message "Windows cannot access (name of computer). His workgroup name is WORKGROUP - same as all the network boxes. Where should I start to figure out why he can't see the other boxes on the network? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From ramzcbu at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 01:39:13 2010 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 23:39:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break In-Reply-To: <96706412C23A44CF946E8B848CAE7561@HAL9005> References: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005> <4C2E85B8.8834.43B8809@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <96706412C23A44CF946E8B848CAE7561@HAL9005> Message-ID: How about looking into the possibility of treating such report as a custom-label report? If the most you'd get per page is half a page of print-out, then probably you can design a custom two "label" report. HTH On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Well, it's really one report run many times for different parts. Think of > it > as a bill of materials report. I pass the assembly part number to the > report and it runs. As each work orders are opened automatically, the Kit > List for the work order is printed. So it's really just one report run > many > times for different assemblies. That's where I'm a bit stumped. If it was > a > bunch of different reports, I could make each one a sub report. But it's > the same report. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:35 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break > > That's exactly the way I do it - embed them as sub-reports in a "wrapper" > report. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Jun 2010 at 22:32, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I added a feature to my app to automatically release a bunch of work > orders. > > Client loved it. > > > > Then the client wanted to have the Kit List printed for each work > > order released - no problem, client loved it. > > > > Now since many of these reports take only 1/3 to 1/2 page, the client > > requests that they be printed without the page break - save a tree. > > But I'm not sure how to accomplish this. I suppose I could make the > > Kit List report a subreport in the detail section of a report, the > > record source of which would be the list or work orders to print the > > kit lists for, but I'm not sure that would work. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Sat Jul 3 02:36:36 2010 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 19:36:36 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break In-Reply-To: References: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005> <4C2E85B8.8834.43B8809@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <96706412C23A44CF946E8B848CAE7561@HAL9005> Message-ID: <20100703073448.ESEH11274.mta02.xtra.co.nz@Dalyn.dalyn.co.nz> Rocky, I think your original idea would work - Collating the assembly part numbers as part of a where clause in the main reports query and use the report groups to include the sub reports for each assembly part? Regards David At 3/07/2010, Ramz . wrote: >How about looking into the possibility of treating such report as a >custom-label report? If the most you'd get per page is half a page of >print-out, then probably you can design a custom two "label" report. HTH > >On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:44 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Well, it's really one report run many times for different parts. Think of > > it > > as a bill of materials report. I pass the assembly part number to the > > report and it runs. As each work orders are opened automatically, the Kit > > List for the work order is printed. So it's really just one report run > > many > > times for different assemblies. That's where I'm a bit stumped. If it was > > a > > bunch of different reports, I could make each one a sub report. But it's > > the same report. > > > > R > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan > > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:35 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break > > > > That's exactly the way I do it - embed them as sub-reports in a "wrapper" > > report. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 30 Jun 2010 at 22:32, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I added a feature to my app to automatically release a bunch of work > > orders. > > > Client loved it. > > > > > > Then the client wanted to have the Kit List printed for each work > > > order released - no problem, client loved it. > > > > > > Now since many of these reports take only 1/3 to 1/2 page, the client > > > requests that they be printed without the page break - save a tree. > > > But I'm not sure how to accomplish this. I suppose I could make the > > > Kit List report a subreport in the detail section of a report, the > > > record source of which would be the list or work orders to print the > > > kit lists for, but I'm not sure that would work. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jul 3 03:39:48 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 18:39:48 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break In-Reply-To: <96706412C23A44CF946E8B848CAE7561@HAL9005> References: <0E28090D172C419FB573E98CB1963DD3@HAL9005>, <4C2E85B8.8834.43B8809@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <96706412C23A44CF946E8B848CAE7561@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4C2EF754.5048.2B900F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In that case, create a query which contains the key for each part and base the wrapper report on that. Put a single Kit List report in the detail and set the appropriate fields in the Link Master Field/Link Child properties. -- Stuart On 2 Jul 2010 at 20:44, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Well, it's really one report run many times for different parts. Think of it > as a bill of materials report. I pass the assembly part number to the > report and it runs. As each work orders are opened automatically, the Kit > List for the work order is printed. So it's really just one report run many > times for different assemblies. That's where I'm a bit stumped. If it was a > bunch of different reports, I could make each one a sub report. But it's > the same report. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:35 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Bunch of reports with no page break > > That's exactly the way I do it - embed them as sub-reports in a "wrapper" > report. > > -- > Stuart > > On 30 Jun 2010 at 22:32, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I added a feature to my app to automatically release a bunch of work > orders. > > Client loved it. > > > > Then the client wanted to have the Kit List printed for each work > > order released - no problem, client loved it. > > > > Now since many of these reports take only 1/3 to 1/2 page, the client > > requests that they be printed without the page break - save a tree. > > But I'm not sure how to accomplish this. I suppose I could make the > > Kit List report a subreport in the detail section of a report, the > > record source of which would be the list or work orders to print the > > kit lists for, but I'm not sure that would work. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > MTIA, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From brad.marks1 at gmail.com Sat Jul 3 12:27:14 2010 From: brad.marks1 at gmail.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:27:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Report_Puzzler_=96_Trying_to_plug_a_va?= =?windows-1252?q?lue_into_a_TextBox_when_using_DoCmd=2EOutputTo?= Message-ID: I have a Text Box that is being filled in with a value in the ?On Load? event of a Report. This works nicely when I view the report via Access. Now I would like to use the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command to push this report to a file. Is there a way to plug a value into this TextBox when using the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command? It appears that the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command is not doing a ?Load? of the report. I am missing some here. Probably something really simple. I have experimented with other Report Events that might be available with the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command but have not had any luck. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Brad From fahooper at trapo.com Sat Jul 3 12:39:57 2010 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2010 13:39:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Report_Puzzler_=96_Trying_to_plug_a_va?= =?windows-1252?q?lue_into_a_TextBox_when_using_DoCmd=2EOutputTo?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C2F75ED.9060108@trapo.com> You could fill the text box with the value from a (maybe hidden) field on a form using syntax like: "=Forms!frmReplace!txtStartDate". So, just before your DoCmd, place the value in the field. Fred On 7/3/2010 1:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have a Text Box that is being filled in with a value in the ?On Load? > event of a Report. This works nicely when I view the report via Access. > > > > Now I would like to use the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command to push > this report to a file. > > > > Is there a way to plug a value into this TextBox when using the > ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command? > > > > It appears that the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command is not doing a > ?Load? of the report. > > > > I am missing some here. Probably something really simple. > > > > I have experimented with other Report Events that might be available with > the ?DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport? command but have not had any luck. > > > > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > > > > Brad From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Jul 3 16:10:14 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 16:10:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Report Puzzler - Trying to plug a value into a TextBox when using DoCmd.OutputTo References: <4C2F75ED.9060108@trapo.com> Message-ID: Fred, Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. The TextBox on the report now has the value in it and I am all smiles. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Fred Hooper Sent: Sat 7/3/2010 12:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Report Puzzler - Trying to plug a value into a TextBox when using DoCmd.OutputTo You could fill the text box with the value from a (maybe hidden) field on a form using syntax like: "=Forms!frmReplace!txtStartDate". So, just before your DoCmd, place the value in the field. Fred On 7/3/2010 1:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > I have a Text Box that is being filled in with a value in the "On Load" > event of a Report. This works nicely when I view the report via Access. > > > > Now I would like to use the "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command to push > this report to a file. > > > > Is there a way to plug a value into this TextBox when using the > "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command? > > > > It appears that the "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command is not doing a > "Load" of the report. > > > > I am missing some here. Probably something really simple. > > > > I have experimented with other Report Events that might be available with > the "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command but have not had any luck. > > > > Thanks in advance for your assistance. > > > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Johncliviger at aol.com Sun Jul 4 13:50:11 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <762fa.1462a579.396231e3@aol.com> Rocky You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? john cliviger From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Jul 4 17:57:16 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 18:57:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <380-22010704225716661@M2W127.mail2web.com> Well, it wasn't really germane. Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September for a semester. That's all. It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. R Original Message: ----------------- From: Johncliviger at aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Rocky You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? john cliviger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From Johncliviger at aol.com Mon Jul 5 03:32:01 2010 From: Johncliviger at aol.com (Johncliviger at aol.com) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 04:32:01 EDT Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <5a253.60e73372.3962f281@aol.com> Rocky Sorry I thought you were referring to Max Wanadoo who's not posted for some time. johnc From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 6 07:47:05 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 08:47:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document Message-ID: <4C3325C9.8090604@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to do a merge document for my church's vacation bible school. We have a web site done in the MURA CMS (which I did not create but which I maintain) with a data entry form (which I created) which collects the data. The data is downloaded to my machine in CSV format. I was given a word document, elaborately (manually) formatted to look just so, with English and Spanish labels on consecutive lines and then space filled areas to allow the person to fill in the blanks. I modified this word document to do the merge. I removed all the spaces, inserted the merge fields etc. The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. IOW: Name <> DOB <> causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. Does anyone know how to fix this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jul 6 08:01:54 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:01:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document Message-ID: Hi John Tables? /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 14:47 >>> The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. IOW: Name <> DOB <> causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. Does anyone know how to fix this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Jul 6 08:05:25 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:05:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-Tech] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> Message-ID: Sitting in front of an XP box right now. To do that in XP just open an explorer window, find "My Network Places" and right-click and choose 'properties'. That displays a window with the network cards listed. Right click the one that is in use and choose properties again. In the resulting dialog you should be able to enable/install Client for Microsoft Networks. I'm fairly sure the steps will be pretty similar in W7. HTH Lambert -----Original Message----- From: dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:dba-tech-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2010 12:28 AM To: 'Rocky Smolin'; 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: Re: [dba-Tech] Network Problem Various forums say that the error I'm getting is because I need to enable Client for Microsoft Networks in network properties but I can't figure out how to do that in Windows 7. Anybody know how? MTIA Rocky _____ From: Rocky Smolin [mailto:rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 5:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List (dba-tech at databaseadvisors.com); 'Off Topic' Subject: Network Problem Dear list(s): Max is home for the summer. His dell laptop has Windows 7. He has internet access but cannot connect to any of the machines on the home network (or therefore install a network printer which is what led us to this problem to begin with). Clicking on Network displays all of the computers except my Windows XP box (which I would like his box to see because I have the best printer local to my WXP box). When he tries to open any of the displayed comps (they're all shared - I can access any of them from any of my other boxes), he gets a message "Windows cannot access (name of computer). His workgroup name is WORKGROUP - same as all the network boxes. Where should I start to figure out why he can't see the other boxes on the network? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jul 6 08:06:31 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 08:06:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C3325C9.8090604@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3325C9.8090604@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C19200CBC35@houex1.kindermorgan.com> To change it in word open the document, select the column, right click, select auto fit and then fixed width. This is in word 2003. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 7:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document I am trying to do a merge document for my church's vacation bible school. We have a web site done in the MURA CMS (which I did not create but which I maintain) with a data entry form (which I created) which collects the data. The data is downloaded to my machine in CSV format. I was given a word document, elaborately (manually) formatted to look just so, with English and Spanish labels on consecutive lines and then space filled areas to allow the person to fill in the blanks. I modified this word document to do the merge. I removed all the spaces, inserted the merge fields etc. The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. IOW: Name <> DOB <> causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. Does anyone know how to fix this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 6 08:29:04 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 09:29:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C332FA0.7070609@colbyconsulting.com> Gustav, The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through these on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents looking the same. So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end it shouldn't push anything around. This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Tables? > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 14:47 >>> > > The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. > > IOW: > > Name <> DOB <> > > causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. > > I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. > > Does anyone know how to fix this? > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jul 6 08:46:55 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 15:46:55 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document Message-ID: Hi John I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be printed in both rows, right?): Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> Not that I'm a Word expert (actually I stay off Word if at all possible) but I think I saw this method in one of Susan's articles. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 15:29 >>> Gustav, The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through these on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents looking the same. So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end it shouldn't push anything around. This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Tables? > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 14:47 >>> > > The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. > > IOW: > > Name <> DOB <> > > causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. > > I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. > > Does anyone know how to fix this? From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Jul 6 09:23:55 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:23:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C332FA0.7070609@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C332FA0.7070609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: What about using just one field in the Word doc that holds everything you want printed on that line? Then build its contents up in your code using Lset to left justify the string on a consistent basis. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document Gustav, The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through these on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents looking the same. So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end it shouldn't push anything around. This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > Tables? > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 14:47 >>> > > The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. > > IOW: > > Name <> DOB <> > > causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. > > I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. > > Does anyone know how to fix this? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 6 09:50:19 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:50:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be printed in both rows, right?): No, not even close. This is just the first row of a two PAGE document with about 50 fields of various lengths, sometimes just a single field on a line, sometimes three on a line. ALL with Spanish translations directly below the English "Label". For next year I will be doing an Access report but the user printed and mailed fifty of these to parents from last years VBS. She wants the merged doc to look like the doc she mailed so that the people working the registration table aren't spending all night searching around trying to find the data. Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. > Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be > printed in both rows, right?): > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> > > Not that I'm a Word expert (actually I stay off Word if at all > possible) but I think I saw this method in one of Susan's articles. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 15:29 >>> > Gustav, > > The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) > > She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who > just fills out the form > manually, so that a person going through these on the first day of VBS > can see all registration > documents looking the same. > > So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: > > > The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, > which I can do with tabs (or > spaces). However as the length of <> changes, it pushes Date Of > Birth out to the left, but > of course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end > it shouldn't push anything > around. > > This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the > document such that <> is > a fixed width on the final form. No tabs after it, it just takes X > inches of space on the line. > > But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field > is always X units wide". This > seems like something that everyone would want and would have been fixed > ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 6 09:55:22 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 10:55:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: References: <4C332FA0.7070609@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C3343DA.7010005@colbyconsulting.com> > What about using just one field in the Word doc that holds everything you want printed on that line? Then build its contents up in your code using Lset to left justify the string on a consistent basis. Uh... no. Though that is a novel idea. This is a word document pulling data directly out of a CSV file, and inserting it into merge fields on a document. What is the point of a merge document if I have to do what you are discussing? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > What about using just one field in the Word doc that holds everything you want printed on that line? Then build its contents up in your code using Lset to left justify the string on a consistent basis. > > Lambert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 9:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document > > Gustav, > > The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) > > She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through these on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents looking the same. > > So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: > > > The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end it shouldn't push anything around. > > This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. > > But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi John >> >> Tables? >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 14:47 >>> >> The problem I am having is that the data fields shift around as the length of the data changes if I have multiple fields on the same line. >> >> IOW: >> >> Name <> DOB <> >> >> causes <> to slide left and right as the length of the <> changes. >> >> I cannot seem to find a way to permanently make the fields themselves a specific (fixed) length. >> >> Does anyone know how to fix this? >> From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Jul 6 10:20:28 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:20:28 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document Message-ID: Hi John Oh, so it should look like: Child/Youth Name: Some Name Date of Birth: Some birthday Ni?o/joven # 1: Fecha de nacimiento: Couldn't you then print the merge fields twice: Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> and in the Spanish row print <> and <> with white forecolour? /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 16:50 >>> > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be printed in both rows, right?): No, not even close. This is just the first row of a two PAGE document with about 50 fields of various lengths, sometimes just a single field on a line, sometimes three on a line. ALL with Spanish translations directly below the English "Label". For next year I will be doing an Access report but the user printed and mailed fifty of these to parents from last years VBS. She wants the merged doc to look like the doc she mailed so that the people working the registration table aren't spending all night searching around trying to find the data. Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. > Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be > printed in both rows, right?): > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> > > Not that I'm a Word expert (actually I stay off Word if at all > possible) but I think I saw this method in one of Susan's articles. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 15:29 >>> > Gustav, > > The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) > > She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who > just fills out the form > manually, so that a person going through these on the first day of VBS > can see all registration > documents looking the same. > > So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: > > > The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, > which I can do with tabs (or > spaces). However as the length of <> changes, it pushes Date Of > Birth out to the left, but > of course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end > it shouldn't push anything > around. > > This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the > document such that <> is > a fixed width on the final form. No tabs after it, it just takes X > inches of space on the line. > > But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field > is always X units wide". This > seems like something that everyone would want and would have been fixed > ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Jul 6 10:20:42 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 11:20:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C3343DA.7010005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C332FA0.7070609@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3343DA.7010005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Well you can output the left aligned strings to yet another CSV file, and then use it with the merge process. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document > What about using just one field in the Word doc that holds everything you want printed on that line? Then build its contents up in your code using Lset to left justify the string on a consistent basis. Uh... no. Though that is a novel idea. This is a word document pulling data directly out of a CSV file, and inserting it into merge fields on a document. What is the point of a merge document if I have to do what you are discussing? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > What about using just one field in the Word doc that holds everything you want printed on that line? Then build its contents up in your code using Lset to left justify the string on a consistent basis. > > Lambert > > From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Tue Jul 6 11:03:36 2010 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <380-22010704225716661@M2W127.mail2web.com> References: <380-22010704225716661@M2W127.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Rocky, This might help a bit http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Well, it wasn't really germane. Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September for a semester. That's all. It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. R Original Message: ----------------- From: Johncliviger at aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Rocky You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? john cliviger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 6 11:12:56 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 12:12:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: References: <4C332FA0.7070609@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3343DA.7010005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C335608.4000009@colbyconsulting.com> Lambert, Alignment doesn't appear to have much to do with it. It is the total length of the field keeps changing and that causes the stuff following the field to be pushed around. Taking your idea and my programming skills, I am going to: 1) Use Access 2) Link to the CSV file 3) Create a query with all of the fields 4) Create a function that takes two parameters, strData and intLength. The function will return a string intLength characters long. If the data is not long enough it will pad right with spaces, if it is too long it will chop the data to fit the space available 5) Every single field in the query will then run through the function. I can manually adjust the intLength in the query. 6) MAYBE (eventually) move to dynamic sql and a table to pull the length out of. then I can just edit the table to adjust the lengths if the data. All because Microsoft things pretty tool bars are more important than solving REAL PROBLEMS like this. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Well you can output the left aligned strings to yet another CSV file, and then use it with the merge process. > > Lambert From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jul 6 11:25:03 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:25:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <380-2201072616253168@M2W116.mail2web.com> Ed: Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. I'll check it then. But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - just denied access. And has internet. So I think the networking aspect might be OK. This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's the problem. R Original Message: ----------------- From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Rocky, This might help a bit http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Well, it wasn't really germane. Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September for a semester. That's all. It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. R Original Message: ----------------- From: Johncliviger at aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Rocky You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? john cliviger -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From jedi at charm.net Tue Jul 6 11:35:56 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Word does not suck--it is the users. Ninety-nine percent of the users use one percent or less of Words' capablilties. Mike... > > Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From jedi at charm.net Tue Jul 6 11:39:26 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <380-2201072616253168@M2W116.mail2web.com> References: <380-2201072616253168@M2W116.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <4502.24.35.23.165.1278434366.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Is NetBios turned on? Mike... > > Ed: > > Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. I'll check > it > then. But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - > just denied access. And has internet. So I think the networking aspect > might be OK. This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's > the > problem. > > R > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Rocky, > This might help a bit > > http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rockysmolin at bchacc.com > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > Well, it wasn't really germane. Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to > Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live > in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September > for a semester. > That's all. It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. > > R > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Johncliviger at aol.com > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Rocky > > You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? > > john cliviger > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and > application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 6 12:29:46 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:29:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C33680A.1080002@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, OK. That doesn't explain the inability to pin down the merge fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > Word does not suck--it is the users. Ninety-nine percent of the users use > one percent or less of Words' capablilties. > > Mike... > >> Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > > From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Jul 6 12:50:50 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:50:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Did you explain why you were not using tabs on each of the lines with the merge fields? In other words you start each line with the prefix text then hit Tab and add the merge field. Tab again to position the cursor for the next static piece of text, and Tab once again to set up the position of the next merge field. Then hit enter for the next line. The tab positions defined on the first line should be inherited by subsequent lines. Once the document has been built up, you highlight all the lines with merge fields and then you can adjust the position of each tab to give enough space for the data going into the merge fields. It seems to me that that would be another way to do it, giving you 'flexible white space' between the fields. It would even allow you to use proportional fonts. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be printed in both rows, right?): No, not even close. This is just the first row of a two PAGE document with about 50 fields of various lengths, sometimes just a single field on a line, sometimes three on a line. ALL with Spanish translations directly below the English "Label". For next year I will be doing an Access report but the user printed and mailed fifty of these to parents from last years VBS. She wants the merged doc to look like the doc she mailed so that the people working the registration table aren't spending all night searching around trying to find the data. Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi John > > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. > Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be > printed in both rows, right?): > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> > > Not that I'm a Word expert (actually I stay off Word if at all > possible) but I think I saw this method in one of Susan's articles. > > /gustav > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 15:29 >>> > Gustav, > > The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) > > She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who > just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through these > on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents looking the > same. > > So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: > > Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> > Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: > > > The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, > which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of > <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of > course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end it > shouldn't push anything around. > > This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the > document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No > tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. > > But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field > is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone > would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 12:59:40 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:59:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <380-2201072616253168@M2W116.mail2web.com> References: <380-2201072616253168@M2W116.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Did you try to run the troubleshooting wizard thing? I don't have Win 7 but in Vista I thought that the troubleshooting provided by the system was very helpful. GK On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:25 AM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: > > Ed: > > Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. ?I'll check it > then. ?But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - > just denied access. And has internet. ?So I think the networking aspect > might be OK. ?This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's the > problem. > > R > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Rocky, > This might help a bit > > http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rockysmolin at bchacc.com > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > Well, it wasn't really germane. ?Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to > Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live > in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September > for a semester. > That's all. ?It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. > > R > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: ?Johncliviger at aol.com > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Rocky > > You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? > > john cliviger > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and > application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jul 6 15:07:49 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 16:07:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <380-220107262074970@M2W137.mail2web.com> Yeah - but but couldn't solve the problem. R Original Message: ----------------- From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:59:40 -0500 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem Did you try to run the troubleshooting wizard thing? I don't have Win 7 but in Vista I thought that the troubleshooting provided by the system was very helpful. GK On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:25 AM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: > > Ed: > > Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. ?I'll check it > then. ?But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - > just denied access. And has internet. ?So I think the networking aspect > might be OK. ?This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's the > problem. > > R > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Rocky, > This might help a bit > > http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html > > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rockysmolin at bchacc.com > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > Well, it wasn't really germane. ?Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to > Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live > in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September > for a semester. > That's all. ?It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. > > R > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: ?Johncliviger at aol.com > Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Rocky > > You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? > > john cliviger > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and > application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application > hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 15:19:04 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:19:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <380-220107262074970@M2W137.mail2web.com> References: <380-220107262074970@M2W137.mail2web.com> Message-ID: It doesn't see the printers at all when you try to do "add printer" and select "Network printers"? Or it sees them but doesn't let you use them? GK On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:07 PM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: > Yeah - but but couldn't solve the problem. > > R > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:59:40 -0500 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Did you try to run the troubleshooting wizard thing? ?I don't have Win > 7 but in Vista I thought that the troubleshooting provided by the > system was very helpful. > > GK > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:25 AM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com > wrote: >> >> Ed: >> >> Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. ?I'll check > it >> then. ?But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - >> just denied access. And has internet. ?So I think the networking aspect >> might be OK. ?This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's > the >> problem. >> >> R >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us >> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> >> Rocky, >> This might help a bit >> >> http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html >> >> >> Ed Tesiny >> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> rockysmolin at bchacc.com >> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> Well, it wasn't really germane. ?Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to >> Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live >> in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September >> for a semester. >> That's all. ?It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. >> >> R >> >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: ?Johncliviger at aol.com >> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> >> Rocky >> >> You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? >> >> john cliviger >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and >> application >> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application >> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - > http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From roz.clarke at barclays.com Wed Jul 7 05:51:25 2010 From: roz.clarke at barclays.com (roz.clarke at barclays.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:51:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <174A69C31E290B47A4898DFFDB5BFCD9024CA661@MUKPBCC1XMB0403.collab.barclayscorp.com> Providing 100x more functionality than 99% of your users need seems like bad practice to me. Roz -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr Sent: 06 July 2010 17:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document Word does not suck--it is the users. Ninety-nine percent of the users use one percent or less of Words' capablilties. Mike... > > Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the addressee and may also be privileged or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. 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Barclays Bank PLC is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 7 08:59:28 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:59:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <174A69C31E290B47A4898DFFDB5BFCD9024CA661@MUKPBCC1XMB0403.collab.barclayscorp.com> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <174A69C31E290B47A4898DFFDB5BFCD9024CA661@MUKPBCC1XMB0403.collab.barclayscorp.com> Message-ID: <4C348840.207@colbyconsulting.com> Building pretty tool bars when so many bugs are hanging out unfixed seems like bad practice as well. OTOH Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company and I am scratching by. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com roz.clarke at barclays.com wrote: > Providing 100x more functionality than 99% of your users need seems like > bad practice to me. > > Roz > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr > Sent: 06 July 2010 17:36 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document > > Word does not suck--it is the users. Ninety-nine percent of the users > use one percent or less of Words' capablilties. > > Mike... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 7 10:09:26 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:09:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C3498A6.9090901@colbyconsulting.com> Lambert, AFAIK tab positions are defined by the tab ruler. Since this is a document with a random number of merge fields on any given line (and positioned in a random location), using the tabs in this manner seems like a non-starter. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Did you explain why you were not using tabs on each of the lines with the merge fields? In other words you start each line with the prefix text then hit Tab and add the merge field. Tab again to position the cursor for the next static piece of text, and Tab once again to set up the position of the next merge field. Then hit enter for the next line. > > The tab positions defined on the first line should be inherited by subsequent lines. > > Once the document has been built up, you highlight all the lines with merge fields and then you can adjust the position of each tab to give enough space for the data going into the merge fields. It seems to me that that would be another way to do it, giving you 'flexible white space' between the fields. It would even allow you to use proportional fonts. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document > > > > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be printed in both rows, right?): > > No, not even close. This is just the first row of a two PAGE document with about 50 fields of various lengths, sometimes just a single field on a line, sometimes three on a line. ALL with Spanish translations directly below the English "Label". > > For next year I will be doing an Access report but the user printed and mailed fifty of these to parents from last years VBS. She wants the merged doc to look like the doc she mailed so that the people working the registration table aren't spending all night searching around trying to find the data. > > Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi John >> >> I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. >> Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be >> printed in both rows, right?): >> >> Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> >> Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> >> >> Not that I'm a Word expert (actually I stay off Word if at all >> possible) but I think I saw this method in one of Susan's articles. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 15:29 >>> >> Gustav, >> >> The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) >> >> She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who >> just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through these >> on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents looking the >> same. >> >> So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: >> >> Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> >> Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: >> >> >> The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, >> which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of >> <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of >> course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end it >> shouldn't push anything around. >> >> This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the >> document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No >> tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. >> >> But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field >> is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone >> would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? >> >> >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed Jul 7 10:32:47 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:32:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C3498A6.9090901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3498A6.9090901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Why would that be? If you have to design the document from scratch then why not go ahead and build it with all the tabs in the right place to begin with? Tabs are indeed defined by the tab ruler, *but* for each document, and each paragraph, and even each line within a paragraph you can decide what the tab ruler looks like. How many tabs, where they are and what type (left or right justified, decimal tabs etc). To position a tab on the ruler just drag it left or right. To remove it just drag it down. Correct me if I'm wrong but the goal is that for any given instance of the printed document you want the data in the merge fields and the static text that follows it on the same line to be in the same positions. It seems to me that building the template document with appropriately generous spaces between tabs would do the trick. Just my 2 cents worth. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document Lambert, AFAIK tab positions are defined by the tab ruler. Since this is a document with a random number of merge fields on any given line (and positioned in a random location), using the tabs in this manner seems like a non-starter. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Did you explain why you were not using tabs on each of the lines with the merge fields? In other words you start each line with the prefix text then hit Tab and add the merge field. Tab again to position the cursor for the next static piece of text, and Tab once again to set up the position of the next merge field. Then hit enter for the next line. > > The tab positions defined on the first line should be inherited by subsequent lines. > > Once the document has been built up, you highlight all the lines with merge fields and then you can adjust the position of each tab to give enough space for the data going into the merge fields. It seems to me that that would be another way to do it, giving you 'flexible white space' between the fields. It would even allow you to use proportional fonts. > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document > > > > I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to be printed in both rows, right?): > > No, not even close. This is just the first row of a two PAGE document with about 50 fields of various lengths, sometimes just a single field on a line, sometimes three on a line. ALL with Spanish translations directly below the English "Label". > > For next year I will be doing an Access report but the user printed and mailed fifty of these to parents from last years VBS. She wants the merged doc to look like the doc she mailed so that the people working the registration table aren't spending all night searching around trying to find the data. > > Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi John >> >> I see your problem but still believes that a table will solve this. >> Here two rows and four columns (and you would need the variables to >> be printed in both rows, right?): >> >> Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> >> Ni?o/joven # 1: <> Fecha de nacimiento: <> >> >> Not that I'm a Word expert (actually I stay off Word if at all >> possible) but I think I saw this method in one of Susan's articles. >> >> /gustav >> >> >>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 06-07-2010 15:29 >>> >> Gustav, >> >> The problem is the stinkin user (you know users) >> >> She wants it to look like the document that she prints for anyone who >> just fills out the form manually, so that a person going through >> these on the first day of VBS can see all registration documents >> looking the same. >> >> So I have a field in my merge document that looks like: >> >> Child/Youth Name: <> Date of Birth: <> >> Ni?o/joven # 1: Nombre Fecha de nacimiento: >> >> >> The words on the consecutive lines need to line up with each other, >> which I can do with tabs (or spaces). However as the length of >> <> changes, it pushes Date Of Birth out to the left, but of >> course it does not push Fecha de nacimiento around. And in the end >> it shouldn't push anything around. >> >> This is just ugly! It seems like you should be able to "paint" the >> document such that <> is a fixed width on the final form. No >> tabs after it, it just takes X inches of space on the line. >> >> But the merge field has no handles, no obvious way to say "this field >> is always X units wide". This seems like something that everyone >> would want and would have been fixed ohhh.... TWENTY years ago? >> >> >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 7 10:52:47 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 11:52:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3498A6.9090901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C34A2CF.8080108@colbyconsulting.com> Lambert, I thought I had mentioned, but if not I will say it again, I am not defining the document from scratch. I was handed an existing two page document, complete with English and Spanish translations and asked to do a merge such that the document looks "exactly" like the word document handed to me. The user designed the document, mailed it out to 50 people, and wants my merged document to look as close as possible to the one that she mailed out. If I were doing this from scratch, I would NOT use word to do a merge (for obvious reasons). I am not a Word afficianado, and I really wasn't aware that the tabs could be changed within a paragraph. THAT is the piece of information that I was missing and which makes your suggestion (possibly) workable. Understanding that, I will give this another go using your suggestion and setting the tab ruler as needed where needed. Before I go wasting another 5 hours... I am setting the tab ruler such that there is a tab position at the beginning of each "label" and at the beginning of each merge field correct? Insert the first (beginning of line) label - tab - first merge field - tab - next label - tab next merge field etc? That sounds workable. Can the tab setting be copied and pasted into a new location? IOW, there are three "sets" of child information, three merge lines per set. If I set the tabs for the first set can I copy that info and copy it into the next set? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Why would that be? If you have to design the document from scratch then why not go ahead and build it with all the tabs in the right place to begin with? Tabs are indeed defined by the tab ruler, *but* for each document, and each paragraph, and even each line within a paragraph you can decide what the tab ruler looks like. How many tabs, where they are and what type (left or right justified, decimal tabs etc). To position a tab on the ruler just drag it left or right. To remove it just drag it down. > > Correct me if I'm wrong but the goal is that for any given instance of the printed document you want the data in the merge fields and the static text that follows it on the same line to be in the same positions. It seems to me that building the template document with appropriately generous spaces between tabs would do the trick. > > Just my 2 cents worth. > > Lambert From jedi at charm.net Wed Jul 7 11:40:18 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C33680A.1080002@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4493.24.35.23.165.1278434156.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C33680A.1080002@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4663.24.35.23.165.1278520818.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> I was not trying to slam you, just that most users do not bother to "learn" Word. They just type. Example: using spaces to "tab" to next field--yuck. Back to your problem, tables mentioned earlier are a good option. Everything is guarranteed to line up and position correctly. The table can even be hidden by removing the borders. Your merge fields still have to be defined by you (with names) so the code knows where to put the information. Another option is preset tabs. Not as good as tables because if the field is longer than the tab the data still gets skewed. Another possiblity is columns. You can add 2 or 3 coulmns per page and have each bit of data on a seperate line. There is not much control over format-placing though. Mike... > LOL, OK. > > That doesn't explain the inability to pin down the merge fields. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> Word does not suck--it is the users. Ninety-nine percent of the users >> use >> one percent or less of Words' capablilties. >> >> Mike... >> >>> Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 7 12:10:08 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:10:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADPs Message-ID: <4C34B4F0.1050800@colbyconsulting.com> Have ADPs been deprecated? I am trying to use an Access FE and a SQL Server BE (Office 2003) and the results are less than stellar, and I don't know why. I want to be able to use SQL Server as the BE but when running SQL Server on my dev laptop, my billing FE talking to SQL Server billing BE the results just ... suck! I get times when it takes 30 seconds for as form to open. I mostly use ODBC to talk driectly to tables but I have created views and linked to those views. Even there though AFAICT Access used ODBC. This just doesn't seem correct, SOMETHING is off and until I can actually use SQL Server to an Access FE myself I can hardly recommend the experience to a client. Nobody (including ME!) wants a 30 second form opening experience. Any ideas of what to try? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jul 7 12:25:30 2010 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 13:25:30 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADPs In-Reply-To: <4C34B4F0.1050800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C34B4F0.1050800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: ADP's still exist in 2003 and 2007. Not sure about 2010, but I believe they are on their way out. But talking to SQL Server with ODBC is still doable in any version, which is sounds like what your doing, but I'm not sure. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] ADPs Have ADPs been deprecated? I am trying to use an Access FE and a SQL Server BE (Office 2003) and the results are less than stellar, and I don't know why. I want to be able to use SQL Server as the BE but when running SQL Server on my dev laptop, my billing FE talking to SQL Server billing BE the results just ... suck! I get times when it takes 30 seconds for as form to open. I mostly use ODBC to talk driectly to tables but I have created views and linked to those views. Even there though AFAICT Access used ODBC. This just doesn't seem correct, SOMETHING is off and until I can actually use SQL Server to an Access FE myself I can hardly recommend the experience to a client. Nobody (including ME!) wants a 30 second form opening experience. Any ideas of what to try? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed Jul 7 14:26:19 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:26:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4C34A2CF.8080108@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3342AB.5040703@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3498A6.9090901@colbyconsulting.com> <4C34A2CF.8080108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John, I had indeed forgotten the part about the document being created outside your control. However, to try to answer your question regarding copying the tab settings for rulers. Yes you can but it's a little weird, of course. First setting up the tabs: You set up a paragraph, as you guessed, by entering the label - tab - first merge field - tab - next label - tab next merge field etc., but just before you do that, click on the ruler in the approximate places where you want the tab stops. Then after entering the text and merge field data you can drag the tab indicators around on the ruler to get them into the exact positions you want. The text you entered will move around to match the new tab positions. To copy those ruler settings you now need to click the little 'paragraph' tool (?) on the toolbar (or use the menus: Tools/Options/View Tab - check the 'All' check box [in the Formatting Marks] area.). That will result in visible indicators of the tabs in the text (arrows instead of white space) and the end of paragraph marker, which looks like this ?. So what you then do is highlight the '?' symbol at the end of the paragraph and copy it. Then highlight the paragraph marker of another paragraph and paste into it. That has the effect of copying the ruler to the other paragraph. However, it does not put any tabs into the text, you have to do that by hand, but the position of the tab markers will now match the first paragraph exactly. So it's all down to allowing enough white space for the merged data, AFAIKS Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 11:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document Lambert, I thought I had mentioned, but if not I will say it again, I am not defining the document from scratch. I was handed an existing two page document, complete with English and Spanish translations and asked to do a merge such that the document looks "exactly" like the word document handed to me. The user designed the document, mailed it out to 50 people, and wants my merged document to look as close as possible to the one that she mailed out. If I were doing this from scratch, I would NOT use word to do a merge (for obvious reasons). I am not a Word afficianado, and I really wasn't aware that the tabs could be changed within a paragraph. THAT is the piece of information that I was missing and which makes your suggestion (possibly) workable. Understanding that, I will give this another go using your suggestion and setting the tab ruler as needed where needed. Before I go wasting another 5 hours... I am setting the tab ruler such that there is a tab position at the beginning of each "label" and at the beginning of each merge field correct? Insert the first (beginning of line) label - tab - first merge field - tab - next label - tab next merge field etc? That sounds workable. Can the tab setting be copied and pasted into a new location? IOW, there are three "sets" of child information, three merge lines per set. If I set the tabs for the first set can I copy that info and copy it into the next set? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Heenan, Lambert wrote: > Why would that be? If you have to design the document from scratch then why not go ahead and build it with all the tabs in the right place to begin with? Tabs are indeed defined by the tab ruler, *but* for each document, and each paragraph, and even each line within a paragraph you can decide what the tab ruler looks like. How many tabs, where they are and what type (left or right justified, decimal tabs etc). To position a tab on the ruler just drag it left or right. To remove it just drag it down. > > Correct me if I'm wrong but the goal is that for any given instance of the printed document you want the data in the merge fields and the static text that follows it on the same line to be in the same positions. It seems to me that building the template document with appropriately generous spaces between tabs would do the trick. > > Just my 2 cents worth. > > Lambert -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marklbreen at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 15:00:43 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:00:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Message-ID: Hello AccessD Friends of Old, I have a customer that is running an large-ish access app. About 50 tables and 10 forms. Some large complex queries. One a standalone machine it runs fast as lightening. They say that in the past it also ran fast on their network. However, they say that since they upgrade the backend and front end to Access 2007, the performance has dropped through the floor. I can see the performance and it is absolutely terrible 30 - 60 seconds to open a form. But now for the interesting bit. It is only slow when the 26 users are using it !!! yes, they have 26 users keying data all day long. I was gobsmacked because while I read about it, I never saw it happening in real life. To Summarise, 26 users - Access 2000 no problem 26 users - Access 2007 dreadfully slow 1 users - Access 2007 no problem. This is pointing to a difference between Access 2007 and multi-user situations but how can I resolve it? I have prepared an mdb file in Access 2000 format for testing when the 26 people come into work in the morning, and if downgrading the BE fixes it, that I am happy, but I do not think it is going to solve my problems. Any idea? thanks for your help Mark From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Jul 7 18:23:12 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:23:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Word merge document In-Reply-To: <4663.24.35.23.165.1278520818.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <201007072323.o67NNBJq020868@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I find the most useful thing to do when working with word is to ensure the non-printing characters are visible. Then if the document looks ugly and messy, it will almost certainly be that way. My pet Word hate is folks who (along with using spaces rather than tabs) use 10 tabs on each line, when you can set the tab stop correctly and just use one tab instead. Urrrrgh. Anyway... I am sure word is a wonderful product if you really use it well, but not being a legal secretary or document publisher of any kind my knowledge is pretty basic. Actually I hardly ever use word at all. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr Sent: Thursday, 8 July 2010 2:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Word merge document I was not trying to slam you, just that most users do not bother to "learn" Word. They just type. Example: using spaces to "tab" to next field--yuck. Back to your problem, tables mentioned earlier are a good option. Everything is guarranteed to line up and position correctly. The table can even be hidden by removing the borders. Your merge fields still have to be defined by you (with names) so the code knows where to put the information. Another option is preset tabs. Not as good as tables because if the field is longer than the tab the data still gets skewed. Another possiblity is columns. You can add 2 or 3 coulmns per page and have each bit of data on a seperate line. There is not much control over format-placing though. Mike... > LOL, OK. > > That doesn't explain the inability to pin down the merge fields. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> Word does not suck--it is the users. Ninety-nine percent of the users >> use >> one percent or less of Words' capablilties. >> >> Mike... >> >>> Word SUCKS sometimes. Perhaps even most of the time? >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Jul 7 18:39:44 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:39:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Message-ID: <380-22010737233944246@M2W125.mail2web.com> I'll bet a dollar the downgrade works. You could probably give them all 2003 run times and it would run like a spotted dog as well. ADO or DAO? R Original Message: ----------------- From: Mark Breen marklbreen at gmail.com Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:00:43 +0100 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Hello AccessD Friends of Old, I have a customer that is running an large-ish access app. About 50 tables and 10 forms. Some large complex queries. One a standalone machine it runs fast as lightening. They say that in the past it also ran fast on their network. However, they say that since they upgrade the backend and front end to Access 2007, the performance has dropped through the floor. I can see the performance and it is absolutely terrible 30 - 60 seconds to open a form. But now for the interesting bit. It is only slow when the 26 users are using it !!! yes, they have 26 users keying data all day long. I was gobsmacked because while I read about it, I never saw it happening in real life. To Summarise, 26 users - Access 2000 no problem 26 users - Access 2007 dreadfully slow 1 users - Access 2007 no problem. This is pointing to a difference between Access 2007 and multi-user situations but how can I resolve it? I have prepared an mdb file in Access 2000 format for testing when the 26 people come into work in the morning, and if downgrading the BE fixes it, that I am happy, but I do not think it is going to solve my problems. Any idea? thanks for your help Mark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? Enhanced email for the mobile individual based on Microsoft? Exchange - http://link.mail2web.com/Personal/EnhancedEmail From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jul 7 21:43:12 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:43:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have heard your story before and have held a couple of clients back from upgrading until I can transfer their BE to MS SQL or SQL Express. The last app that I migrated from a MDB BE to SQL Express, took about a month, in dribs and drabs, to re-write, with SPs and using ADO-OLE connection. (Real men and women do not use ODBC so we will not use that four letter euphemism, in polite company, again.) ;-) The new app now runs about twice as fast as the old 2003 FE/BE even using the retarded Access2007 FE. This fall or early spring I will be moving the FE to .Net and that will be an end to it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Breen Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 1:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Hello AccessD Friends of Old, I have a customer that is running an large-ish access app. About 50 tables and 10 forms. Some large complex queries. One a standalone machine it runs fast as lightening. They say that in the past it also ran fast on their network. However, they say that since they upgrade the backend and front end to Access 2007, the performance has dropped through the floor. I can see the performance and it is absolutely terrible 30 - 60 seconds to open a form. But now for the interesting bit. It is only slow when the 26 users are using it !!! yes, they have 26 users keying data all day long. I was gobsmacked because while I read about it, I never saw it happening in real life. To Summarise, 26 users - Access 2000 no problem 26 users - Access 2007 dreadfully slow 1 users - Access 2007 no problem. This is pointing to a difference between Access 2007 and multi-user situations but how can I resolve it? I have prepared an mdb file in Access 2000 format for testing when the 26 people come into work in the morning, and if downgrading the BE fixes it, that I am happy, but I do not think it is going to solve my problems. Any idea? thanks for your help Mark -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jul 8 05:41:11 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:41:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development Message-ID: Hi all Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you think that the more elaborate tools are not for you: WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a Web framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It streamlines Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites from popular open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with WebMatrix transition seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. It is still in beta though. /gustav From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 08:42:24 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:42:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav: At first blush it looks like an excellent little tool. It runs similar to Adobe Dreamweaver but not as pricey. I hope Microsoft sticks with this one...if they work it right it could be the MS Access of the web. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development Hi all Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you think that the more elaborate tools are not for you: WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a Web framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It streamlines Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites from popular open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with WebMatrix transition seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. It is still in beta though. /gustav -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lmrazek at lcm-res.com Thu Jul 8 08:55:54 2010 From: lmrazek at lcm-res.com (Lawrence Mrazek) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:55:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Query question, choose TOP from Group? In-Reply-To: <762fa.1462a579.396231e3@aol.com> References: <762fa.1462a579.396231e3@aol.com> Message-ID: <0d2701cb1ea5$498bd8d0$dca38a70$@com> Hi folks: I'd like to bind a listbox to use a query that returns the top record for each item in a group, where the group is sorted by date descending. Basically, I have: Company MaterialName PriceDate Basically, would like to group by Company, MaterialName, and sort desc by PriceDate ... I only want to see the most recent record for each Company/Material Name combination. Each Company / Material combo could have a different date, so I can't limit it that way. Can I do this with a query? Another method? Thanks in advance! Larry Mrazek ph. 314-496-1645 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 09:07:20 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:07:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim, BE conversion to SS is something I have been planning to start doing with my clients. Can you give a bit more detail on how you proceeded? Did you convert the BE totally to SS, then debug the FE until it was working, then tune it? Or did you have 2 BE and gradually convert table by table? Or other?? Thanks, Doug On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I have heard your story before and have held a couple of clients back from > upgrading until I can transfer their BE to MS SQL or SQL Express. The last > app that I migrated from a MDB BE to SQL Express, took about a month, in > dribs and drabs, to re-write, with SPs and using ADO-OLE connection. (Real > men and women do not use ODBC so we will not use that four letter > euphemism, > in polite company, again.) ;-) > > The new app now runs about twice as fast as the old 2003 FE/BE even using > the retarded Access2007 FE. This fall or early spring I will be moving the > FE to .Net and that will be an end to it. > > Jim > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Jul 8 09:09:33 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:09:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem Message-ID: <380-220107481493361@M2W110.mail2web.com> It doesn't see them. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:19:04 -0500 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem It doesn't see the printers at all when you try to do "add printer" and select "Network printers"? Or it sees them but doesn't let you use them? GK On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:07 PM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: > Yeah - but but couldn't solve the problem. > > R > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:59:40 -0500 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Did you try to run the troubleshooting wizard thing? ?I don't have Win > 7 but in Vista I thought that the troubleshooting provided by the > system was very helpful. > > GK > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:25 AM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com > wrote: >> >> Ed: >> >> Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. ?I'll check > it >> then. ?But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - >> just denied access. And has internet. ?So I think the networking aspect >> might be OK. ?This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's > the >> problem. >> >> R >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us >> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> >> Rocky, >> This might help a bit >> >> http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html >> >> >> Ed Tesiny >> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> rockysmolin at bchacc.com >> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> Well, it wasn't really germane. ?Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to >> Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live >> in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September >> for a semester. >> That's all. ?It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. >> >> R >> >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: ?Johncliviger at aol.com >> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> >> Rocky >> >> You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? >> >> john cliviger >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and >> application >> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application >> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - > http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 09:11:14 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:11:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] HTML 5 pushed to the limit In-Reply-To: References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> Message-ID: <9188A978551A448E9E1DC2F44730D1D3@creativesystemdesigns.com> With the inclusion of HTML 5 and its various features the skies the limit in what a web programmer can deploy through the internet... and it does not require any specialized web server to do it. If you like eye-candy check this out: http://mugtug.com/darkroom/ (Remember; no IE support... yet.) Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 09:13:59 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:13:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a funny... or why you should always encourage your friends and neighbours to try and figure out a solution to a computer problem before calling you. http://xkcd.com/763/ Jim From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 09:36:16 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:36:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: LOL, poked through some more of these, I liked this one the best so far.... http://xkcd.com/742/ Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday Here is a funny... or why you should always encourage your friends and neighbours to try and figure out a solution to a computer problem before calling you. http://xkcd.com/763/ Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Jul 8 09:43:39 2010 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:43:39 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Query question, choose TOP from Group? In-Reply-To: <0d2701cb1ea5$498bd8d0$dca38a70$@com> References: <762fa.1462a579.396231e3@aol.com> <0d2701cb1ea5$498bd8d0$dca38a70$@com> Message-ID: <360A8B8ED4A24B188E77957CBC9E39D5@abpc> Larry, Don't see why you need to sort descending by PriceDate. Won't something like this do (since a max-aggregation on PriceDate should give you the most recent record)? SELECT Company, MaterialName, Max(PriceDate) AS MaxPriceDate FROM MyTable GROUP BY Company, MaterialName Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Lawrence Mrazek Sendt: 8. juli 2010 15:56 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: [AccessD] Query question, choose TOP from Group? Hi folks: I'd like to bind a listbox to use a query that returns the top record for each item in a group, where the group is sorted by date descending. Basically, I have: Company MaterialName PriceDate Basically, would like to group by Company, MaterialName, and sort desc by PriceDate ... I only want to see the most recent record for each Company/Material Name combination. Each Company / Material combo could have a different date, so I can't limit it that way. Can I do this with a query? Another method? Thanks in advance! Larry Mrazek ph. 314-496-1645 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 09:42:58 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:42:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] My SQL slowness Message-ID: <4C35E3F2.6040309@colbyconsulting.com> I have reported problems with very slow performance of my billing SQL Server database. The database was running on my laptop and the performance was abysmal. Well today I decided to move it to my SQL Server machine and holy smoke batman, it is blazing fast. So whatever the problem, it is related to the SQL Server instance on my laptop. Now to troubleshoot how to make it faster there. I have some natural limitations of course since I only have two cores and 3.25 gigs of RAM TOTAL for the laptop. I didn't really expect that to be an issue since the database itself is only a few megs. What would be really nice would be to somehow run off of the server when I am at home (99% of the time) but keep the laptop synced to the server so that I could switch to the local copy when I am on the road. At that point I would probably just put up with the slowness, although now that I know that the slowness is in my local instance I will definitely troubleshoot further. On that note however... I have a view that I used to allow me to enter my time records. On my local machine it allows me to add records. On the remote server it does not. All of my tables do allow me to enter data if opened directly (in Access in the table window). That problem aside, I shall definitely enjoy my new found speed. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 09:46:00 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:46:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <380-220107481493361@M2W110.mail2web.com> References: <380-220107481493361@M2W110.mail2web.com> Message-ID: You've probably looked at this one already... http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Troubleshoot-network-printer-problems This one looks to have some good info... http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-7/share-files-and-printers-between-windows-7-and-xp/ This one seems to have your answer. http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-207227-windows-7-cant-see-xp-home-shared-printer Says you might need to turn off "password protected file sharing" on the Win 7 box? GK On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:09 AM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: > It doesn't see them. > > Rocky > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:19:04 -0500 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > It doesn't see the printers at all when you try to do "add printer" > and select "Network printers"? Or it sees them but doesn't let you use > them? > > GK -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 10:11:57 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:11:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Doug: My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will pay. ;-) I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. The application usually has to under go a few changes. No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. I populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that the client doesn't notice any delays. Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Jim, BE conversion to SS is something I have been planning to start doing with my clients. Can you give a bit more detail on how you proceeded? Did you convert the BE totally to SS, then debug the FE until it was working, then tune it? Or did you have 2 BE and gradually convert table by table? Or other?? Thanks, Doug On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I have heard your story before and have held a couple of clients back from > upgrading until I can transfer their BE to MS SQL or SQL Express. The last > app that I migrated from a MDB BE to SQL Express, took about a month, in > dribs and drabs, to re-write, with SPs and using ADO-OLE connection. (Real > men and women do not use ODBC so we will not use that four letter > euphemism, > in polite company, again.) ;-) > > The new app now runs about twice as fast as the old 2003 FE/BE even using > the retarded Access2007 FE. This fall or early spring I will be moving the > FE to .Net and that will be an end to it. > > Jim > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 10:45:38 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:45:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Network Problem In-Reply-To: <380-220107481493361@M2W110.mail2web.com> References: <380-220107481493361@M2W110.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <1FCA33C3A5FE43CFBAAFC3D348F81A0E@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Rocky: Assuming that your XP and Windows7 are on the same workgroup/domain, their IP addresses in the same group (you have ran ipconfig to display each IP setting and they are compatible. Internet Protocol version 4 on Windows7 must be set right), the XP printer is shared, you can ping your XP box from you Windows7 box the following should connect to the printer: Via network: IE \\192.168.111.222\MyPrinterShareName (nothing like brute force) If you connected it will prompt you for an appropriate Username and Password. This should work but be aware that what printer drivers that runs on an XP box will not run correctly on a Windows7 box. Connected my daughter's laptop, running Windows7 Ultima, to my Server3003 printers, in about 5 minutes and after upgrading the printer driver, on Windows7(64bit), it ran just fine. Another possibility is too install LogMeIn Hamachi (It free) on both the XP and your son's Windows7. After you have created a Hamachi network with both boxes connected, Max could print to your XP from across the hall or from Chicago even. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:10 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem It doesn't see them. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 15:19:04 -0500 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem It doesn't see the printers at all when you try to do "add printer" and select "Network printers"? Or it sees them but doesn't let you use them? GK On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 3:07 PM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: > Yeah - but but couldn't solve the problem. > > R > > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com > Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:59:40 -0500 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem > > > Did you try to run the troubleshooting wizard thing? ?I don't have Win > 7 but in Vista I thought that the troubleshooting provided by the > system was very helpful. > > GK > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 11:25 AM, rockysmolin at bchacc.com > wrote: >> >> Ed: >> >> Might be something there but we're out of town until Sunday. ?I'll check > it >> then. ?But at the moment the misbehaving comp can see the other machines - >> just denied access. And has internet. ?So I think the networking aspect >> might be OK. ?This is a wireless network, BTW, but I don't think that's > the >> problem. >> >> R >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: Tesiny, Ed EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us >> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 12:03:36 -0400 >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> >> Rocky, >> This might help a bit >> >> http://www.gocomputertraining.com/windows-7-networking.html >> >> >> Ed Tesiny >> EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >> rockysmolin at bchacc.com >> Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 6:57 PM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> Well, it wasn't really germane. ?Max is my 20 y.o. - goes to >> Northwestern in Chicago - always good to have them home again (we live >> in Del Mar, Cal), however briefly - going away to Seville in September >> for a semester. >> That's all. ?It's his comp that can't see the rest of the comps at home. >> >> R >> >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: ?Johncliviger at aol.com >> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 14:50:11 EDT >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Network Problem >> >> >> Rocky >> >> You say "Max is home for the summer" have I missed something? >> >> john cliviger >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft(r) Windows(r) and Linux web and >> application >> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application >> hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > > -- > Gary Kjos > garykjos at gmail.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web LIVE ? Free email based on Microsoft? Exchange technology - > http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft? Windows? and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 11:10:46 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:10:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim: Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start unbinding the forms... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Doug: > > My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to > do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. > Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work > out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K > bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will > pay. ;-) > > I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to > construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored > Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built > like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with > their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in > Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. > > The application usually has to under go a few changes. > No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. > I > populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I > usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that > the client doesn't notice any delays. > > Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than > go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to > connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE > interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and > reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. > > If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. > > Jim > > > From jedi at charm.net Thu Jul 8 11:16:39 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:16:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] My SQL slowness In-Reply-To: <4C35E3F2.6040309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C35E3F2.6040309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3651.24.35.23.165.1278605799.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, is your laptop wireless? Mike... > I have reported problems with very slow performance of my billing SQL > Server database. The database > was running on my laptop and the performance was abysmal. Well today I > decided to move it to my SQL > Server machine and holy smoke batman, it is blazing fast. > > So whatever the problem, it is related to the SQL Server instance on my > laptop. > > Now to troubleshoot how to make it faster there. I have some natural > limitations of course since I > only have two cores and 3.25 gigs of RAM TOTAL for the laptop. I didn't > really expect that to be an > issue since the database itself is only a few megs. > > What would be really nice would be to somehow run off of the server when I > am at home (99% of the > time) but keep the laptop synced to the server so that I could switch to > the local copy when I am on > the road. At that point I would probably just put up with the slowness, > although now that I know > that the slowness is in my local instance I will definitely troubleshoot > further. > > On that note however... > > I have a view that I used to allow me to enter my time records. On my > local machine it allows me to > add records. On the remote server it does not. All of my tables do allow > me to enter data if > opened directly (in Access in the table window). > > That problem aside, I shall definitely enjoy my new found speed. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jedi at charm.net Thu Jul 8 11:24:44 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] HTML 5 pushed to the limit In-Reply-To: <9188A978551A448E9E1DC2F44730D1D3@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <9188A978551A448E9E1DC2F44730D1D3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <3775.24.35.23.165.1278606284.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Just followed the link and it sez that IE support coming July 4th, kinda smug of them. So I tried the link in FireFox 3.5.10 and it looks terrible! The left side menuing is all hosed up. All the text is running over itself. Mike... > With the inclusion of HTML 5 and its various features the skies the limit > in > what a web programmer can deploy through the internet... and it does not > require any specialized web server to do it. > > If you like eye-candy check this out: > http://mugtug.com/darkroom/ > > (Remember; no IE support... yet.) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jul 8 11:29:19 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:29:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Message-ID: Hi Doug Not to spoil the party neither the bill to the client ... but you could - as a first attempt - try to run the upsize wizard which will copy the tables to the SQL Server and establish ODBC connections to these. Some tweaking will be needed but the time for this is usually counted in days rather than months. I've seen several apps running extremely well this way contrary to all the bad opinions regarding ODBC. That said, your app may of course be different and a rewrite may be the only way out but - as Jim has explained - the work load to achieve this is a magnitude larger and in some cases may not pay off and the time would have been spent better (and indeed at more fun) doing a complete rewrite with Visual Studio or the like. /gustav >>> dbdoug at gmail.com 08-07-2010 18:10 >>> Hi Jim: Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start unbinding the forms... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Doug: > > My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to > do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. > Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work > out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K > bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will > pay. ;-) > > I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to > construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored > Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built > like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with > their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in > Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. > > The application usually has to under go a few changes. > No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. > I > populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I > usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that > the client doesn't notice any delays. > > Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than > go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to > connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE > interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and > reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. > > If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. > > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 11:41:17 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:41:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4C35FFAD.2000907@colbyconsulting.com> Doug, > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start unbinding the forms... DON'T do that! I am a bound kind of guy. I am way to old to get back into the bound / unbound thing but you do NOT have to rewrite the application from scratch. You can simply link the tables to the same table in SQL Server and be up and running, and probably running faster than you were because SQL Server will now hand you back result sets rather than JET having to do the "ask for index / select / get pieces of file / etc / ad nasium". That said, it will help if you will do some basics like filter to just the last few records but even that is not required. Whatever worked previously should work now. You can go do the optimizations later. Test / YMMV etc. I was getting abysmal performance when I moved my tiny little billing data to a SQL Server instance running on my (now woefully underpowered, 2 year old) Dell laptop development machine. I finally moved the database to run on my far more powerful SQL Server box and it runs like lightning. The moral is, you can get sucky performance from SQL Server but it is likely not oging to happen if you have a good SQL Server box. Just do the conversion, and TEST IT. Use the Access upgrade wizard, get it working and see what you see. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Steele wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple > of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start > unbinding the forms... > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Hi Doug: >> >> My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to >> do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. >> Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work >> out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K >> bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will >> pay. ;-) >> >> I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to >> construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored >> Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built >> like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with >> their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in >> Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. >> >> The application usually has to under go a few changes. >> No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. >> I >> populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I >> usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that >> the client doesn't notice any delays. >> >> Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than >> go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to >> connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE >> interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and >> reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. >> >> If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. >> >> Jim >> >> >> From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 11:48:45 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:48:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks for the input, Gustav. I was assuming that I ODBC was a complete no-no. It would be tempting to start with ODBC and then work towards Jim's approach. Of the 300 or so forms in my big apps, probably 10 to 20 are crucial and need to be as fast as possible. One of the main reasons that I want to get going on converting from Access is that I'm planning on retiring in the next couple of years and don't want to leave my clients stuck. It's a lot easier to find Visual Studio programmers than Access programmers with sufficient knowledge. By the way, one of my clients lost his Access 2003 install disks last week and bought Office 2010. My 2003 database went CRASH, BANG, !&%%! Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Doug > > Not to spoil the party neither the bill to the client ... but you could - > as a first attempt - try to run the upsize wizard which will copy the tables > to the SQL Server and establish ODBC connections to these. Some tweaking > will be needed but the time for this is usually counted in days rather than > months. > > I've seen several apps running extremely well this way contrary to all the > bad opinions regarding ODBC. That said, your app may of course be different > and a rewrite may be the only way out but - as Jim has explained - the work > load to achieve this is a magnitude larger and in some cases may not pay off > and the time would have been spent better (and indeed at more fun) doing a > complete rewrite with Visual Studio or the like. > > /gustav > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 12:39:41 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:39:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] My SQL slowness In-Reply-To: <3651.24.35.23.165.1278605799.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C35E3F2.6040309@colbyconsulting.com> <3651.24.35.23.165.1278605799.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C360D5D.1020302@colbyconsulting.com> Yes it can be, though I run it wired unless I am using the laptop downstairs. However I was running the SQL Server instance directly on the laptop. I gave it 500 megs of ram for itself and limited it to a single CPU. The database is tiny, the actual file size is under 12 megs. I even gave SQL Server its own partition- about 2 gigs - on the one and only drive in the laptop - this in an effort to prevent fragmentation etc. Now that I am running the Access FE off of a SQL database on my main SQL Server machine the database is instantaneous. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, is your laptop wireless? > > Mike... > >> I have reported problems with very slow performance of my billing SQL >> Server database. The database >> was running on my laptop and the performance was abysmal. Well today I >> decided to move it to my SQL >> Server machine and holy smoke batman, it is blazing fast. >> >> So whatever the problem, it is related to the SQL Server instance on my >> laptop. >> >> Now to troubleshoot how to make it faster there. I have some natural >> limitations of course since I >> only have two cores and 3.25 gigs of RAM TOTAL for the laptop. I didn't >> really expect that to be an >> issue since the database itself is only a few megs. >> >> What would be really nice would be to somehow run off of the server when I >> am at home (99% of the >> time) but keep the laptop synced to the server so that I could switch to >> the local copy when I am on >> the road. At that point I would probably just put up with the slowness, >> although now that I know >> that the slowness is in my local instance I will definitely troubleshoot >> further. >> >> On that note however... >> >> I have a view that I used to allow me to enter my time records. On my >> local machine it allows me to >> add records. On the remote server it does not. All of my tables do allow >> me to enter data if >> opened directly (in Access in the table window). >> >> That problem aside, I shall definitely enjoy my new found speed. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 12:42:52 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:42:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C360E1C.3080804@colbyconsulting.com> > By the way, one of my clients lost his Access 2003 install disks last week and bought Office 2010. My 2003 database went CRASH, BANG, !&%%! ROTFL. Only funny when it is not me of course. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Steele wrote: > Thanks for the input, Gustav. I was assuming that I ODBC was a complete > no-no. It would be tempting to start with ODBC and then work towards Jim's > approach. Of the 300 or so forms in my big apps, probably 10 to 20 are > crucial and need to be as fast as possible. > > One of the main reasons that I want to get going on converting from Access > is that I'm planning on retiring in the next couple of years and don't want > to leave my clients stuck. It's a lot easier to find Visual Studio > programmers than Access programmers with sufficient knowledge. > > By the way, one of my clients lost his Access 2003 install disks last week > and bought Office 2010. My 2003 database went CRASH, BANG, !&%%! > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > >> Hi Doug >> >> Not to spoil the party neither the bill to the client ... but you could - >> as a first attempt - try to run the upsize wizard which will copy the tables >> to the SQL Server and establish ODBC connections to these. Some tweaking >> will be needed but the time for this is usually counted in days rather than >> months. >> >> I've seen several apps running extremely well this way contrary to all the >> bad opinions regarding ODBC. That said, your app may of course be different >> and a rewrite may be the only way out but - as Jim has explained - the work >> load to achieve this is a magnitude larger and in some cases may not pay off >> and the time would have been spent better (and indeed at more fun) doing a >> complete rewrite with Visual Studio or the like. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 13:27:17 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:27:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <6E2B46BA845F4F409BE2208BAE3071F4@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Doug: I would probably get a test server with a SQL server on it and try an upsize and see how it works... queries and tables. I would recommend building the BE first and then you can test the queries/SP and see if they are producing the correct results. ...Then build the connection tier/module as updates and functionality could be tested in really time. ...And finally tackle the FE. That is the way I have always done it... foundation first before building the upper floors. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Hi Jim: Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start unbinding the forms... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Doug: > > My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to > do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. > Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work > out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K > bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will > pay. ;-) > > I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to > construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored > Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built > like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with > their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in > Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. > > The application usually has to under go a few changes. > No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. > I > populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I > usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that > the client doesn't notice any delays. > > Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than > go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to > connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE > interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and > reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. > > If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. > > Jim > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 13:37:00 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:37:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] HTML 5 pushed to the limit In-Reply-To: <3775.24.35.23.165.1278606284.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <9188A978551A448E9E1DC2F44730D1D3@creativesystemdesigns.com> <3775.24.35.23.165.1278606284.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <79D0D94CDA4645418DA8D0B3610FE842@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Mike: I have only tried Chrome so far... It is a Chrome project after all. ;-) I am running FF 3.6.3 and as we speak the system is automatically updating it to 3.6.6 but it seems to running as expected. If you want to really increase performance download all the CSS and JavaScript... (I have never seen that much JS on a web page before so we are charting new territory) the product is probably running off someone basement server right now. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] HTML 5 pushed to the limit Just followed the link and it sez that IE support coming July 4th, kinda smug of them. So I tried the link in FireFox 3.5.10 and it looks terrible! The left side menuing is all hosed up. All the text is running over itself. Mike... > With the inclusion of HTML 5 and its various features the skies the limit > in > what a web programmer can deploy through the internet... and it does not > require any specialized web server to do it. > > If you like eye-candy check this out: > http://mugtug.com/darkroom/ > > (Remember; no IE support... yet.) > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 13:40:53 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:40:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DC6BF6DEDB04E8D810C6C88B480D6A7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Gustav: Just one point... If the BE is upsized and configured properly it can then be used in conjunction with a .Net or ASP.Net FE, at some future time. At least the BE work will not be a waste. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Hi Doug Not to spoil the party neither the bill to the client ... but you could - as a first attempt - try to run the upsize wizard which will copy the tables to the SQL Server and establish ODBC connections to these. Some tweaking will be needed but the time for this is usually counted in days rather than months. I've seen several apps running extremely well this way contrary to all the bad opinions regarding ODBC. That said, your app may of course be different and a rewrite may be the only way out but - as Jim has explained - the work load to achieve this is a magnitude larger and in some cases may not pay off and the time would have been spent better (and indeed at more fun) doing a complete rewrite with Visual Studio or the like. /gustav >>> dbdoug at gmail.com 08-07-2010 18:10 >>> Hi Jim: Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start unbinding the forms... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Doug: > > My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to > do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. > Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work > out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K > bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will > pay. ;-) > > I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to > construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored > Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built > like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with > their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in > Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. > > The application usually has to under go a few changes. > No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. > I > populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I > usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that > the client doesn't notice any delays. > > Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than > go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to > connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE > interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and > reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. > > If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. > > Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 13:45:10 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:45:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <4C35FFAD.2000907@colbyconsulting.com> References: <7CBD1D8B43F947BCBACE4318AF53FC82@creativesystemdesigns.com> <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C35FFAD.2000907@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <14D8289FE46F4F77AE18AD10F906EFEC@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: I knew that comment would flush you out... but I agree with you in doing a quick dry run first using the upsize/upgrade wizard. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Doug, > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start unbinding the forms... DON'T do that! I am a bound kind of guy. I am way to old to get back into the bound / unbound thing but you do NOT have to rewrite the application from scratch. You can simply link the tables to the same table in SQL Server and be up and running, and probably running faster than you were because SQL Server will now hand you back result sets rather than JET having to do the "ask for index / select / get pieces of file / etc / ad nasium". That said, it will help if you will do some basics like filter to just the last few records but even that is not required. Whatever worked previously should work now. You can go do the optimizations later. Test / YMMV etc. I was getting abysmal performance when I moved my tiny little billing data to a SQL Server instance running on my (now woefully underpowered, 2 year old) Dell laptop development machine. I finally moved the database to run on my far more powerful SQL Server box and it runs like lightning. The moral is, you can get sucky performance from SQL Server but it is likely not oging to happen if you have a good SQL Server box. Just do the conversion, and TEST IT. Use the Access upgrade wizard, get it working and see what you see. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Steele wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple > of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start > unbinding the forms... > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> Hi Doug: >> >> My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to >> do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. >> Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work >> out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K >> bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will >> pay. ;-) >> >> I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to >> construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored >> Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built >> like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with >> their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in >> Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. >> >> The application usually has to under go a few changes. >> No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. >> I >> populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I >> usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that >> the client doesn't notice any delays. >> >> Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than >> go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to >> connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE >> interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and >> reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. >> >> If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. >> >> Jim >> >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 13:52:06 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 11:52:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52A4D11EBCE14F1487203EFD41465C0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> My condolences... I hope the individual who brought in Office 2010 is resting comfortably? It is nice, in a sadistic, to see I am not the only one who has watched a completed project race off the tracks with the assistance of some helpful client. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Thanks for the input, Gustav. I was assuming that I ODBC was a complete no-no. It would be tempting to start with ODBC and then work towards Jim's approach. Of the 300 or so forms in my big apps, probably 10 to 20 are crucial and need to be as fast as possible. One of the main reasons that I want to get going on converting from Access is that I'm planning on retiring in the next couple of years and don't want to leave my clients stuck. It's a lot easier to find Visual Studio programmers than Access programmers with sufficient knowledge. By the way, one of my clients lost his Access 2003 install disks last week and bought Office 2010. My 2003 database went CRASH, BANG, !&%%! Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Doug > > Not to spoil the party neither the bill to the client ... but you could - > as a first attempt - try to run the upsize wizard which will copy the tables > to the SQL Server and establish ODBC connections to these. Some tweaking > will be needed but the time for this is usually counted in days rather than > months. > > I've seen several apps running extremely well this way contrary to all the > bad opinions regarding ODBC. That said, your app may of course be different > and a rewrite may be the only way out but - as Jim has explained - the work > load to achieve this is a magnitude larger and in some cases may not pay off > and the time would have been spent better (and indeed at more fun) doing a > complete rewrite with Visual Studio or the like. > > /gustav > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu Jul 8 14:02:09 2010 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:02:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Message-ID: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu Jul 8 14:07:26 2010 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:07:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Old Boys Club Message-ID: <4C3621EE.7000803@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Sorry for the selling mistakes, dog currently sleeping on my feet. From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Jul 8 15:05:54 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:05:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Are we starting a flame war? Can't say I've ever seen your name on any posts before, and it appears that your expertise may not extent to enabling the spell checker on your email client. You also seem to have trouble understanding some of the highly detailed replies to users' questions that come up here all the time. Goodbye and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. :-) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hey All I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 15:08:14 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:08:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Well toss us a question!!! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hey All I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From marklbreen at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 15:22:53 2010 From: marklbreen at gmail.com (Mark Breen) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:22:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <52A4D11EBCE14F1487203EFD41465C0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <52A4D11EBCE14F1487203EFD41465C0C@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hello All, Just read down through all responses. thank you everyone. Update: Changed everything back to mdb's and guess what? As Rocky suggested, it now runs like a spotted dog. The customer is delighted because there was mild panic yesterday, they literally could not run their business, and today, they are back working again. Hurray for Access 2000 with 26 concurrent users. Thanks again to AccessD Mark On 8 July 2010 19:52, Jim Lawrence wrote: > My condolences... I hope the individual who brought in Office 2010 is > resting comfortably? > > It is nice, in a sadistic, to see I am not the only one who has watched a > completed project race off the tracks with the assistance of some helpful > client. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before > > Thanks for the input, Gustav. I was assuming that I ODBC was a complete > no-no. It would be tempting to start with ODBC and then work towards Jim's > approach. Of the 300 or so forms in my big apps, probably 10 to 20 are > crucial and need to be as fast as possible. > > One of the main reasons that I want to get going on converting from Access > is that I'm planning on retiring in the next couple of years and don't want > to leave my clients stuck. It's a lot easier to find Visual Studio > programmers than Access programmers with sufficient knowledge. > > By the way, one of my clients lost his Access 2003 install disks last week > and bought Office 2010. My 2003 database went CRASH, BANG, !&%%! > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > Hi Doug > > > > Not to spoil the party neither the bill to the client ... but you could - > > as a first attempt - try to run the upsize wizard which will copy the > tables > > to the SQL Server and establish ODBC connections to these. Some tweaking > > will be needed but the time for this is usually counted in days rather > than > > months. > > > > I've seen several apps running extremely well this way contrary to all > the > > bad opinions regarding ODBC. That said, your app may of course be > different > > and a rewrite may be the only way out but - as Jim has explained - the > work > > load to achieve this is a magnitude larger and in some cases may not pay > off > > and the time would have been spent better (and indeed at more fun) doing > a > > complete rewrite with Visual Studio or the like. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 15:24:36 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:24:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C363404.4060607@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, getting kinda crotchety in your old age eh? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Jul 8 15:27:08 2010 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:27:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Much kinder than I was Drew. Me, I couldn't resist. A character flaw I suppose. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Well toss us a question!!! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hey All I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Jul 8 15:29:53 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:29:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363404.4060607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: All, I am fairly new to the world of Microsoft products. I work for a small firm that has no other technical people so I have no one to consult with on Access issues, problems, questions. I have received many good answers and pieces of advice from the people who participate in AccessD. I would like to take this opportunity to say THANKS to everyone who has helped me. I am not sure what AccessD was like in the past, but as a new Access user, this group has saved me countless hours and headaches. THANK YOU! Brad Marks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club LOL, getting kinda crotchety in your old age eh? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 15:35:59 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:35:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list members for not doing..... not sure what. I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so the user community sticks with Excel for those things. Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we are doing what we can. GK On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > Well toss us a question!!! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. ?It has ?now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. > -- > AccessD mailing list -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Jul 8 15:43:24 2010 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:43:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Message-ID: Hi Tony Well, feel free to comment or put any question. True, traffic has decreased for several reasons which has been discussed at more than one occasion. Which reminds me: Has anyone heard from Charlotte or Max lately? /gustav >>> iggy at nanaimo.ark.com 08-07-2010 21:02 >>> Hey All I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 15:43:43 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:43:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363404.4060607@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Thank you Brad. Glad to have you on the list. Without members the list isn't the list. And over the years we have had a lot of turnover. And even now a lot of people sign up and then sign off after they ask and get answers for a question. Everyone here is here by their own choice and not bound to stay. The list is run completely by volunteers and funded entirely by donations. When the list first started it was frequented by people who did only access all day every day. So now the tool has grown and many of our list members have added other tools to what they do. Some longtime members maybe don't even use Access anymore or only use it when working with some old legacy application. Yet we still come here and try our best to answer every question be it easy or hard. Some don't get answered. Some threads go off on tangents. That has always happened. GK On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I am fairly new to the world of Microsoft products. > > I work for a small firm that has no other technical people so I have no > one to consult with on Access issues, problems, questions. > > I have received many good answers and pieces of advice from the people > who participate in AccessD. > > I would like to take this opportunity to say THANKS to everyone who has > helped me. > > I am not sure what AccessD was like in the past, but as a new Access > user, this group has saved me countless hours and headaches. > > THANK YOU! > Brad Marks > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > LOL, getting kinda crotchety in your old age eh? > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Tony Septav wrote: >> Hey All >> I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >> 19930. ?It has ?now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > >> see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > >> from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >> saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the > amount >> of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 15:51:02 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:51:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C363A36.4050909@colbyconsulting.com> Charlotte is unemployed, and probably sitting on a beach somewhere. Max is probably at the pub? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Tony > > Well, feel free to comment or put any question. > True, traffic has decreased for several reasons which has been discussed at more than one occasion. > Which reminds me: Has anyone heard from Charlotte or Max lately? > > /gustav > > >>>> iggy at nanaimo.ark.com 08-07-2010 21:02 >>> > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 15:52:25 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 16:52:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C363A89.2020507@colbyconsulting.com> In fact 80% of my income now comes from SQL Server / C#. I do very little Access stuff any more. I am loving C# though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gary Kjos wrote: > And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development > like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked > most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > > I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list > members for not doing..... not sure what. > > I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an > administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what > more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is > probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had > it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that > people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row > limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so > the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > > Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we > are doing what we can. > > > GK > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: >> Well toss us a question!!! >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >> Hey All >> I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >> 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >> see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >> from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >> saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >> of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list > > > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Thu Jul 8 15:54:44 2010 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >are doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >>of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Jul 8 16:13:16 2010 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:13:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <874651768D974C27A0146EA4FC7FEDA0@abpc> Tony, Beep-beep, your call from far future just arrived. Being on the list since 19930 and still using Access certainty flatters both Microsoft and all of us newbies. So we can't be that bad after all. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Tony Septav Sendt: 8. juli 2010 21:02 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hey All I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jul 8 16:22:33 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:22:33 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The difference between "Access" and "Access of the web" is that most desktops run Windows and can run Access. Most web servers run some form of *nix and won't run Webmatrix. -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 6:42, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > At first blush it looks like an excellent little tool. It runs similar to > Adobe Dreamweaver but not as pricey. I hope Microsoft sticks with this > one...if they work it right it could be the MS Access of the web. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Hi all > > Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: > > http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ > > It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you think > that the more elaborate tools are not for you: > > > WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It > includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a Web > framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It streamlines > Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites from popular > open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with WebMatrix transition > seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. > > > It is still in beta though. > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jul 8 16:31:03 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:31:03 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: , <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com>, Message-ID: <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by ODBC and carry on as usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system upgrading a piece at a time. I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but make sure that the gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 9:10, Doug Steele wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple > of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start > unbinding the forms... > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Doug: > > > > My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to > > do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. > > Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work > > out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K > > bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will > > pay. ;-) > > > > I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to > > construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored > > Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built > > like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with > > their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in > > Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. > > > > The application usually has to under go a few changes. > > No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. > > I > > populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I > > usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that > > the client doesn't notice any delays. > > > > Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than > > go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to > > connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE > > interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and > > reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. > > > > If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 16:32:55 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:32:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <874651768D974C27A0146EA4FC7FEDA0@abpc> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <874651768D974C27A0146EA4FC7FEDA0@abpc> Message-ID: <4C364407.9090309@colbyconsulting.com> Well... since Charlotte left we really are an old BOY's club. Bottom line, I joined the list in 1997. That is pushing 13 years ago now. Yea, Access has changed radically (with 2007) and I have grown old and weary. I was a spritely 42 years old 13 years ago, living in Mexico, no kids, having fun. Now I am 55, two young kids, living in North Carolina and programming in a completely different environment. The only real reason to even stay on the list is to bitch and moan about my arthritis. Where else am I going to find a bunch of old people who can relate? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Asger Blond wrote: > Tony, > Beep-beep, your call from far future just arrived. Being on the list since 19930 and still using Access certainty flatters both Microsoft and all of us newbies. > So we can't be that bad after all. > Asger > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Tony Septav > Sendt: 8. juli 2010 21:02 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Jul 8 16:35:23 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:35:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] HTML 5 pushed to the limit In-Reply-To: <3775.24.35.23.165.1278606284.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005>, <9188A978551A448E9E1DC2F44730D1D3@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <3775.24.35.23.165.1278606284.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C36449B.486.1C6EEF04@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> In FF 3.6.6 it looks great. -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 12:24, Michael Bahr wrote: > Just followed the link and it sez that IE support coming July 4th, kinda > smug of them. So I tried the link in FireFox 3.5.10 and it looks > terrible! The left side menuing is all hosed up. All the text is running > over itself. > > Mike... > > > With the inclusion of HTML 5 and its various features the skies the limit > > in > > what a web programmer can deploy through the internet... and it does not > > require any specialized web server to do it. > > > > If you like eye-candy check this out: > > http://mugtug.com/darkroom/ > > > > (Remember; no IE support... yet.) > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ramzcbu at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 16:44:46 2010 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:44:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI Message-ID: Hi all, How is everyone? I'm new here and I am enjoying the sharing of information, Access-related or otherwise, as most of the things being discussed are new and interesting for me. I was hoping to come across a discussion on creating nice and professional-looking forms in Access, or maybe something that might look like MS Outlook, with the sidebar tree-view. Has anyone done something like this? Has anyone come across something like this? I would very much appreciate it if someone can share some thoughts, or links, on how to create professional-looking forms. As someone once said here, the clients mostly care about the "looks" of the system, as this is what they interact with all the time... Thanks! Ramil From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Jul 8 16:51:23 2010 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:51:23 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C364407.9090309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com><874651768D974C27A0146EA4FC7FEDA0@abpc> <4C364407.9090309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: If so, in your case I wouldn't stay. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af jwcolby Sendt: 8. juli 2010 23:33 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Well... since Charlotte left we really are an old BOY's club. Bottom line, I joined the list in 1997. That is pushing 13 years ago now. Yea, Access has changed radically (with 2007) and I have grown old and weary. I was a spritely 42 years old 13 years ago, living in Mexico, no kids, having fun. Now I am 55, two young kids, living in North Carolina and programming in a completely different environment. The only real reason to even stay on the list is to bitch and moan about my arthritis. Where else am I going to find a bunch of old people who can relate? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Asger Blond wrote: > Tony, > Beep-beep, your call from far future just arrived. Being on the list since 19930 and still using Access certainty flatters both Microsoft and all of us newbies. > So we can't be that bad after all. > Asger > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Tony Septav > Sendt: 8. juli 2010 21:02 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Thu Jul 8 16:51:42 2010 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:51:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Re: "don't want to leave my clients stuck." Doug - the rewrite to SQL Server and dot-net is likely in big six figures..... So....They are DEFINITELY STUCK. > > Thanks for the input, Gustav. I was assuming that I ODBC was > a complete no-no. It would be tempting to start with ODBC > and then work towards Jim's approach. Of the 300 or so forms > in my big apps, probably 10 to 20 are crucial and need to be > as fast as possible. > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 16:56:09 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:56:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Tony, I have to agree with Gary here. There has been a lot of chit chat on here, because the list has gotten much less help requests. Not that we don't get any. We do. I must admit I don't answer every question posted on here, but that's not the intent of the list anyways. I do answer ones that I can readily answer. Questions about Access 2007 and soon 2010 are just not ones I can personally deal with, simply because I don't use those. I answer SQL stuff still, and the rare VBA question, because I am still familiar with such things. But Access is dying. I think we all realize that. It's like if we were a Windows 9x forum...by now, the questions would have stopped flowing completely. Access has changed, and new things have come to pass which have sidelined mainstream Access development. Access is a wonderful tool, but it has seen it's better days. Maybe Access will spark again, who knows. I'm posting this, however, to ask what you think we should do differently? Keep the list quiet, and discuss nothing but Access? That would just let the list die off right now. We've debated things left and right, not a lot to discuss anymore, we can only field the questions that are asked, and in the middle of that, chit chat about other technologies. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >are doing what we can. > > >GK > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 16:57:44 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:57:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Alright, that's it.... I've seen two posts today 'claiming' they don't want to start the bound/unbound debate again..... LIARS! Unbounders, UNITE! (but in a completely unbound sort of way!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by ODBC and carry on as usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system upgrading a piece at a time. I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but make sure that the gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 9:10, Doug Steele wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple > of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start > unbinding the forms... > > Doug The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 17:09:37 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:09:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We've had several discussions about treeviews...is there something in particular you're curious about? They are definitely a powerful interface tool. About the only issue I have had with them in Access, is that in VB, you can use a popup menu that allows you to right click on a node and get a custom built menu, haven't figured out how to get that same interaction with Access...though admittedly, haven't really had the need to build an interface in Access with that kind of functionality. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ramz . Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI Hi all, How is everyone? I'm new here and I am enjoying the sharing of information, Access-related or otherwise, as most of the things being discussed are new and interesting for me. I was hoping to come across a discussion on creating nice and professional-looking forms in Access, or maybe something that might look like MS Outlook, with the sidebar tree-view. Has anyone done something like this? Has anyone come across something like this? I would very much appreciate it if someone can share some thoughts, or links, on how to create professional-looking forms. As someone once said here, the clients mostly care about the "looks" of the system, as this is what they interact with all the time... Thanks! Ramil -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Jul 8 19:03:18 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:03:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201007090003.o6903HPE017081@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ My 2 cents on this. Provided you tables are in good condition you can move the data from Access to SQL Server painlessly and fast. SQL Server has some excellent tools to import data from many valid sources. Most of the work will moving all of the heavy lifting (queries, processing etc) from MS Access/VBA to SQL Server Stored Procs. The learning curve is not too bad but it is usually a fairly manual process. I normally keep both database running in parallel until you are confident the SQL Server version is working as expected. Hope that helps a bit. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Friday, 9 July 2010 12:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Jim, BE conversion to SS is something I have been planning to start doing with my clients. Can you give a bit more detail on how you proceeded? Did you convert the BE totally to SS, then debug the FE until it was working, then tune it? Or did you have 2 BE and gradually convert table by table? Or other?? Thanks, Doug On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:43 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I have heard your story before and have held a couple of clients back from > upgrading until I can transfer their BE to MS SQL or SQL Express. The last > app that I migrated from a MDB BE to SQL Express, took about a month, in > dribs and drabs, to re-write, with SPs and using ADO-OLE connection. (Real > men and women do not use ODBC so we will not use that four letter > euphemism, > in polite company, again.) ;-) > > The new app now runs about twice as fast as the old 2003 FE/BE even using > the retarded Access2007 FE. This fall or early spring I will be moving the > FE to .Net and that will be an end to it. > > Jim > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Jul 8 19:23:07 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:23:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201007090023.o690N5aV019318@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ "Some threads go off on tangents." Sometimes I learn much more from the tangents. Indeed, I usually I learn something from every thread, even if it is what too look out for in the future. Best training course ever being subbed to these lists. My sentiments lie with Brad. I am constantly grateful for the continued patience and generous assistance the list members have provided to me over the years. You have saved my bacon more than once. :) I owe you all a drink! Thanks. Cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Friday, 9 July 2010 6:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Thank you Brad. Glad to have you on the list. Without members the list isn't the list. And over the years we have had a lot of turnover. And even now a lot of people sign up and then sign off after they ask and get answers for a question. Everyone here is here by their own choice and not bound to stay. The list is run completely by volunteers and funded entirely by donations. When the list first started it was frequented by people who did only access all day every day. So now the tool has grown and many of our list members have added other tools to what they do. Some longtime members maybe don't even use Access anymore or only use it when working with some old legacy application. Yet we still come here and try our best to answer every question be it easy or hard. Some don't get answered. Some threads go off on tangents. That has always happened. GK _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 19:25:26 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:25:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> References: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: Hey, if I thought I could talk my clients into 'big six figures' then maybe I would postpone retirement for another couple of years... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "don't want to leave my clients stuck." > > Doug - the rewrite to SQL Server and dot-net is likely in big six > figures..... > So....They are DEFINITELY STUCK. > > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 19:50:17 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:50:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: Thanks very much to everyone who contributed to this thread today. It's going to help me a lot! Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > Hey, if I thought I could talk my clients into 'big six figures' then maybe > I would postpone retirement for another couple of years... > > Doug > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > >> Re: "don't want to leave my clients stuck." >> >> Doug - the rewrite to SQL Server and dot-net is likely in big six >> figures..... >> So....They are DEFINITELY STUCK. >> >> From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 20:09:11 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 18:09:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Hi Tony: The truth is that Access application have moved from being major a development system for large to small businesses to little more than a nitch product. All here that are working full-time, in the computer industry are now supporting dozens of different products and hardware and Access has been moved to little more than a power user tool... I do not think there is anyone here who makes their living from just from Access anymore and if they are, they are making plans to move their client's applications to .Net and ASP.Net. with a MS SQL BE. There are other DBA Lists which are reflecting those changes and have slowly becoming more active like VB list (all things .Net and Web-based), SQL list (all things SQL and database related) and the Tech list (all things new in the computer world and Web issues). Times change Tony and you as a programmer should know that better than anyone. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >are doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >>of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 20:08:23 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:08:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: , <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4C367687.3010508@colbyconsulting.com> Unholy unbounders... reinventing the wheel... and doing a bad job of it as well... Ahh, my heart just ain't in it. Now natural vs surrogate key... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Alright, that's it.... I've seen two posts today 'claiming' they don't > want to start the bound/unbound debate again..... > > LIARS! > > Unbounders, UNITE! (but in a completely unbound sort of way!) > > > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:31 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen > before > > Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by > ODBC and carry on as > usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system > upgrading a piece at > a time. > > I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but > make sure that the > gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 20:11:13 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:11:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C367731.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> Ramil, I think it was Arthur that loved the treeview. And William. Hey guys, where are you. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Ramz . wrote: > Hi all, > > How is everyone? I'm new here and I am enjoying the sharing of information, > Access-related or otherwise, as most of the things being discussed are new > and interesting for me. I was hoping to come across a discussion on creating > nice and professional-looking forms in Access, or maybe something that might > look like MS Outlook, with the sidebar tree-view. Has anyone done something > like this? Has anyone come across something like this? I would very much > appreciate it if someone can share some thoughts, or links, on how to create > professional-looking forms. As someone once said here, the clients mostly > care about the "looks" of the system, as this is what they interact with all > the time... > > Thanks! > Ramil From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 20:25:59 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 18:25:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> We had this discussion before but I am more convinced than ever that most of our applications will be moving to browser based applications... Google knows it, FaceBook knows it and Microsoft knows it but they are playing catch up as they have so much invested, in the desktop. My client's are no longer just happy to sit at one desk and work on their applications. They want to work at home, in different countries, on different computer OSs. Right now, other than going crazy, I am supporting 8 projects, 3 are desktop apps, one of those three is being migrated to ASP.Net, 3 more are hardware installs (2 are potential web servers) and the latest 2 are Web base apps, one being a POS applications. The numbers speak for themselves. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development The difference between "Access" and "Access of the web" is that most desktops run Windows and can run Access. Most web servers run some form of *nix and won't run Webmatrix. -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 6:42, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > At first blush it looks like an excellent little tool. It runs similar to > Adobe Dreamweaver but not as pricey. I hope Microsoft sticks with this > one...if they work it right it could be the MS Access of the web. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Hi all > > Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: > > http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ > > It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you think > that the more elaborate tools are not for you: > > > WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It > includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a Web > framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It streamlines > Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites from popular > open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with WebMatrix transition > seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. > > > It is still in beta though. > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 21:06:52 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:06:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0FFA8FC4F44240728FBDB8C19DBBC915@creativesystemdesigns.com> Now that we are on the subject of connection databases and I am not interested in the bound or unbound discussion, but in defense of ADO-OLE over ODBC. A little preamble; 2001 and the company I was worked for crashed and burned but I bid on a excellent project of connecting Oracle to 80-90 desktops worth up go 100k. I used the standard ODBC connection. Performance was acceptable for ADD and UPDATE but SELECT was so slow... Needless to say, no excuses, I lost the contract. I fortunately, I got a second chance, with another department and this time, after a bit of research won the contract. The contract was for a F/T programming project which extended for almost 3 years. This time I used ADO-OLE and the performance was superior to any application out there... nearly twice as fast as Oracle's own desktop product. ADO is one of the most under-rated connection products. It is free and comes on all Windows OS since Win95, requires no installs as everyone, no matter how far away, has it. There is none of this going from one desktop to another to set things up. ADO also has a lot of built-in functionality; it has the Shape object that works like a Transpose matrix... great for super fast cross-tabs. Then the Stream object for transferring pictures, documents and video (though I never tried the streaming video in a client's app)... at the time it was fastest streaming method available and it could make your network look like it had a Flash Server. ADO synchronization so that data could be coming for multiple sources and be 'unioned' together... great for cross-referencing data. There are many other objects that very impressive and again they are very lean and very fast. I must admit that ODBC is initially easier to setup but with a big or long-term project ADO is superior in every way. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by ODBC and carry on as usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system upgrading a piece at a time. I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but make sure that the gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 9:10, Doug Steele wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple > of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start > unbinding the forms... > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Doug: > > > > My approach was rather straight forward but there is not real quick way to > > do it right hence the nearly month long odyssey to get the system moved. > > Fortunately the client was on a monthly contract so I could spread the work > > out over a couple of months as they are not likely to just accept a 10K > > bill...but as they are on a monthly contract that is exactly what they will > > pay. ;-) > > > > I installed a MS SQL on the client's site and used the Upsizing wizard to > > construct all the tables on the SQL and rebuilt all the queries in Stored > > Procedures. (I have done this before so I have all basics are pre-built > > like: Add, Delete, Update, first, next, previous, last, goto-record... with > > their associated UDF (User defined function... same as a function in > > Access)) The queries have to be rebuilt to compile with SP standards. > > > > The application usually has to under go a few changes. > > No bound... that is what a SQL server is for; it does the data management. > > I > > populate all the forms, reports, list and combo boxes via recordsets. I > > usually populate a form one record at a time as it is usually so fast that > > the client doesn't notice any delays. > > > > Those recordsets are assembled through a SQL interface module. Rather than > > go into a page by page explanation suffice to say its sole purpose is to > > connection with the SQL, retrieve and update recordsets through an ADO OLE > > interface. The only tricky parts can be from dealing with combo boxes and > > reports but newer versions of Access take a lot of the grunt work out. > > > > If you want to know more I will answer you questions one at a time. > > > > Jim > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 21:08:13 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:08:13 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C364407.9090309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <874651768D974C27A0146EA4FC7FEDA0@abpc> <4C364407.9090309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0295682ABF834912BEA104B4060E3322@creativesystemdesigns.com> I am laughing... now that I have taken my Relieve. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Well... since Charlotte left we really are an old BOY's club. Bottom line, I joined the list in 1997. That is pushing 13 years ago now. Yea, Access has changed radically (with 2007) and I have grown old and weary. I was a spritely 42 years old 13 years ago, living in Mexico, no kids, having fun. Now I am 55, two young kids, living in North Carolina and programming in a completely different environment. The only real reason to even stay on the list is to bitch and moan about my arthritis. Where else am I going to find a bunch of old people who can relate? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Asger Blond wrote: > Tony, > Beep-beep, your call from far future just arrived. Being on the list since 19930 and still using Access certainty flatters both Microsoft and all of us newbies. > So we can't be that bad after all. > Asger > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Tony Septav > Sendt: 8. juli 2010 21:02 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > Hey All > I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 21:08:02 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:08:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <4C367687.3010508@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4C367687.3010508@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: LOL..... I don't see the debate in that one though... why would you use anything OTHER then a surrogate key? It's the only logic choice! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Unholy unbounders... reinventing the wheel... and doing a bad job of it as well... Ahh, my heart just ain't in it. Now natural vs surrogate key... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > Alright, that's it.... I've seen two posts today 'claiming' they don't > want to start the bound/unbound debate again..... > > LIARS! > > Unbounders, UNITE! (but in a completely unbound sort of way!) > > > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 21:15:20 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:15:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: The truth is that with the invention of SQL servers the whole bound thing was dead and if it was not truly buried web based applications filled in the hole. To be honest with you, it is not even worth arguing about... ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Alright, that's it.... I've seen two posts today 'claiming' they don't want to start the bound/unbound debate again..... LIARS! Unbounders, UNITE! (but in a completely unbound sort of way!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 4:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by ODBC and carry on as usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system upgrading a piece at a time. I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but make sure that the gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 9:10, Doug Steele wrote: > Hi Jim: > > Thanks for the details. All my forms (300+) are bound, and I have a couple > of thousand queries :( I guess the logical first step is to start > unbinding the forms... > > Doug The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Jul 8 21:20:47 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:20:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net project. While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the web as being an all encompassing platform. Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through WMI, in a fraction of a second. The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is ludicrous. Just my opinion though. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development We had this discussion before but I am more convinced than ever that most of our applications will be moving to browser based applications... Google knows it, FaceBook knows it and Microsoft knows it but they are playing catch up as they have so much invested, in the desktop. My client's are no longer just happy to sit at one desk and work on their applications. They want to work at home, in different countries, on different computer OSs. Right now, other than going crazy, I am supporting 8 projects, 3 are desktop apps, one of those three is being migrated to ASP.Net, 3 more are hardware installs (2 are potential web servers) and the latest 2 are Web base apps, one being a POS applications. The numbers speak for themselves. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development The difference between "Access" and "Access of the web" is that most desktops run Windows and can run Access. Most web servers run some form of *nix and won't run Webmatrix. -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 6:42, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > At first blush it looks like an excellent little tool. It runs similar to > Adobe Dreamweaver but not as pricey. I hope Microsoft sticks with this > one...if they work it right it could be the MS Access of the web. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Hi all > > Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: > > http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ > > It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you think > that the more elaborate tools are not for you: > > > WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It > includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a Web > framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It streamlines > Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites from popular > open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with WebMatrix transition > seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. > > > It is still in beta though. > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Jul 8 21:29:59 2010 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:29:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com><4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Has anyone given this web database and table macro ('triggers') a fair test-drive yet? http://blogs.msdn.com/b/access/archive/2009/11/03/demo-of-access-2010-room-b ookings-database.aspx Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hi Tony: The truth is that Access application have moved from being major a development system for large to small businesses to little more than a nitch product. All here that are working full-time, in the computer industry are now supporting dozens of different products and hardware and Access has been moved to little more than a power user tool... I do not think there is anyone here who makes their living from just from Access anymore and if they are, they are making plans to move their client's applications to .Net and ASP.Net. with a MS SQL BE. There are other DBA Lists which are reflecting those changes and have slowly becoming more active like VB list (all things .Net and Web-based), SQL list (all things SQL and database related) and the Tech list (all things new in the computer world and Web issues). Times change Tony and you as a programmer should know that better than anyone. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we are >doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the >>amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 21:33:27 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:33:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: <3B149E268C5F4A19A419D6C73C848EAF@creativesystemdesigns.com> So what are you going to do when you retire? You can sit down drink beer, go fishing or maybe you will re-write that application after all you know have nothing but time to learn and explorer. I could retire anytime but I really love it all... the computer business which is bright and shiny again, every day, with new toys and new ideas. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 5:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Hey, if I thought I could talk my clients into 'big six figures' then maybe I would postpone retirement for another couple of years... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > Re: "don't want to leave my clients stuck." > > Doug - the rewrite to SQL Server and dot-net is likely in big six > figures..... > So....They are DEFINITELY STUCK. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 21:38:31 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:38:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <3B149E268C5F4A19A419D6C73C848EAF@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <3B149E268C5F4A19A419D6C73C848EAF@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I know, I love it too. But I'd REALLY like to kayak to Alaska. I live in Halfmoon Bay BC Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > So what are you going to do when you retire? You can sit down drink beer, > go > fishing or maybe you will re-write that application after all you know have > nothing but time to learn and explorer. > > I could retire anytime but I really love it all... the computer business > which is bright and shiny again, every day, with new toys and new ideas. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 5:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before > > Hey, if I thought I could talk my clients into 'big six figures' then maybe > I would postpone retirement for another couple of years... > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > > Re: "don't want to leave my clients stuck." > > > > Doug - the rewrite to SQL Server and dot-net is likely in big six > > figures..... > > So....They are DEFINITELY STUCK. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 21:54:39 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:54:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. You would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... most of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her station can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream in to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is one of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their importance, especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, the desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support their web or web interface apps. That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net project. While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the web as being an all encompassing platform. Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through WMI, in a fraction of a second. The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is ludicrous. Just my opinion though. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development We had this discussion before but I am more convinced than ever that most of our applications will be moving to browser based applications... Google knows it, FaceBook knows it and Microsoft knows it but they are playing catch up as they have so much invested, in the desktop. My client's are no longer just happy to sit at one desk and work on their applications. They want to work at home, in different countries, on different computer OSs. Right now, other than going crazy, I am supporting 8 projects, 3 are desktop apps, one of those three is being migrated to ASP.Net, 3 more are hardware installs (2 are potential web servers) and the latest 2 are Web base apps, one being a POS applications. The numbers speak for themselves. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development The difference between "Access" and "Access of the web" is that most desktops run Windows and can run Access. Most web servers run some form of *nix and won't run Webmatrix. -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 6:42, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > At first blush it looks like an excellent little tool. It runs similar to > Adobe Dreamweaver but not as pricey. I hope Microsoft sticks with this > one...if they work it right it could be the MS Access of the web. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Hi all > > Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: > > http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ > > It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you think > that the more elaborate tools are not for you: > > > WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It > includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a Web > framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It streamlines > Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites from popular > open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with WebMatrix transition > seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. > > > It is still in beta though. > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 21:59:31 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 19:59:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: References: <00bb01cb1ee7$c07ff100$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <3B149E268C5F4A19A419D6C73C848EAF@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Doug: That spot is paradise already... How are you when kayaking through the big rollers at the end of the island? That sounds like an awesome adventure. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before Yeah, I know, I love it too. But I'd REALLY like to kayak to Alaska. I live in Halfmoon Bay BC Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > So what are you going to do when you retire? You can sit down drink beer, > go > fishing or maybe you will re-write that application after all you know have > nothing but time to learn and explorer. > > I could retire anytime but I really love it all... the computer business > which is bright and shiny again, every day, with new toys and new ideas. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 5:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before > > Hey, if I thought I could talk my clients into 'big six figures' then maybe > I would postpone retirement for another couple of years... > > Doug > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Mark Simms wrote: > > > Re: "don't want to leave my clients stuck." > > > > Doug - the rewrite to SQL Server and dot-net is likely in big six > > figures..... > > So....They are DEFINITELY STUCK. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Thu Jul 8 22:01:02 2010 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:01:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0A1382D276DE4B1CB2A8BD2D128C848C@Gateway> Maybe better on this thread... Has anyone given this web database and table macro ('triggers') a fair test-drive yet? http://blogs.msdn.com/b/access/archive/2009/11/03/demo-of-access-2010-room-b ookings-database.aspx Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development We had this discussion before but I am more convinced than ever that most of our applications will be moving to browser based applications... Google knows it, FaceBook knows it and Microsoft knows it but they are playing catch up as they have so much invested, in the desktop. My client's are no longer just happy to sit at one desk and work on their applications. They want to work at home, in different countries, on different computer OSs. Right now, other than going crazy, I am supporting 8 projects, 3 are desktop apps, one of those three is being migrated to ASP.Net, 3 more are hardware installs (2 are potential web servers) and the latest 2 are Web base apps, one being a POS applications. The numbers speak for themselves. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development The difference between "Access" and "Access of the web" is that most desktops run Windows and can run Access. Most web servers run some form of *nix and won't run Webmatrix. -- Stuart On 8 Jul 2010 at 6:42, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Gustav: > > At first blush it looks like an excellent little tool. It runs similar > to Adobe Dreamweaver but not as pricey. I hope Microsoft sticks with > this one...if they work it right it could be the MS Access of the web. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > Brock > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:41 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Hi all > > Believe it or not, WebMatrix has been given a new life: > > http://www.microsoft.com/web/webmatrix/ > > It claims to be the perfect tool to initiate web development if you > think that the more elaborate tools are not for you: > > > WebMatrix is everything you need to build Web sites using Windows. It > includes IIS Developer Express (a development Web server), ASP.NET (a > Web framework), and SQL Server Compact (an embedded database). It > streamlines Web site development and makes it easy to start Web sites > from popular open-source apps. The skills and code you develop with > WebMatrix transition > seamlessly to Visual Studio and SQL Server. > > > It is still in beta though. > > /gustav > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 22:07:05 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:07:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <7B28A6A3968249DFBE651F3BF230E870@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Michael: I have not downloaded this yet but did watch the video on it. I think I can rest my case on whether MS is going desktop or web base in application development. I will give the app a thorough test next week as I can think of some apps that might need quick and dirty sprucing up. 8-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael R Mattys Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:30 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Has anyone given this web database and table macro ('triggers') a fair test-drive yet? http://blogs.msdn.com/b/access/archive/2009/11/03/demo-of-access-2010-room-b ookings-database.aspx Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hi Tony: The truth is that Access application have moved from being major a development system for large to small businesses to little more than a nitch product. All here that are working full-time, in the computer industry are now supporting dozens of different products and hardware and Access has been moved to little more than a power user tool... I do not think there is anyone here who makes their living from just from Access anymore and if they are, they are making plans to move their client's applications to .Net and ASP.Net. with a MS SQL BE. There are other DBA Lists which are reflecting those changes and have slowly becoming more active like VB list (all things .Net and Web-based), SQL list (all things SQL and database related) and the Tech list (all things new in the computer world and Web issues). Times change Tony and you as a programmer should know that better than anyone. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we are >doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the >>amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 22:07:33 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:07:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] MS WebMatrix for web development; drifting OT Message-ID: I don't know if I have mentioned this before, but one of my clients is a Walmart supplier, and the information he can retrieve from the WM website is absolutely staggering - sales and returns by store, date and UPC code available within 24 hours (it's in Access 97 format, by the way!). I modified his order processing database to import and analyze the WM sales information daily. Walmart uses this as a club over the heads of their suppliers - if the supplier doesn't analyze the data and provide feedback to the individual stores (like, "I see you are nearly out of item XX and you're selling yy per day, shall I ship another pallet tomorrow?"), WM will drop them. Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. You > would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... most > of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. > > For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her station > can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is > calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream in > to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is one > of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to > assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. > > There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their importance, > especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, the > desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support > their web or web interface apps. > > That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 22:14:19 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:14:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance: REALLY OT Message-ID: I have some surfing experience in a full size kayak, but the trick is to figure out where there aren't any big rollers... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Doug: > > That spot is paradise already... How are you when kayaking through the big > rollers at the end of the island? > > That sounds like an awesome adventure. > > Jim > > > From ramzcbu at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 23:10:56 2010 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:10:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI In-Reply-To: <4C367731.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C367731.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the replies guys! Drew, I'm just looking into other ways of providing sleek-looking GUI for the custom Access projects I'm working on. Is there any website that you know of that would show some samples (and possibly sample code as well) on different designs of GUI for Access? John, I'd love to know how to come up with a tree-view GUI in Access. I'm currently using Access 2007. -- Ramil On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:11 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Ramil, > > I think it was Arthur that loved the treeview. And William. > > Hey guys, where are you. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Ramz . wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > How is everyone? I'm new here and I am enjoying the sharing of > information, > > Access-related or otherwise, as most of the things being discussed are > new > > and interesting for me. I was hoping to come across a discussion on > creating > > nice and professional-looking forms in Access, or maybe something that > might > > look like MS Outlook, with the sidebar tree-view. Has anyone done > something > > like this? Has anyone come across something like this? I would very much > > appreciate it if someone can share some thoughts, or links, on how to > create > > professional-looking forms. As someone once said here, the clients mostly > > care about the "looks" of the system, as this is what they interact with > all > > the time... > > > > Thanks! > > Ramil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Jul 8 23:17:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 21:17:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance: REALLY OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Doug: Between the end of the island and the inside passage there are usually a steady supply of the big ones. I have only gone up on the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert and in both occasions the rollers made the ferry look small... I would be quite apprehensive about traversing the distance in something smaller than a row boat. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance: REALLY OT I have some surfing experience in a full size kayak, but the trick is to figure out where there aren't any big rollers... Doug On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:59 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Doug: > > That spot is paradise already... How are you when kayaking through the big > rollers at the end of the island? > > That sounds like an awesome adventure. > > Jim > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 8 23:22:35 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:22:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <0FFA8FC4F44240728FBDB8C19DBBC915@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0FFA8FC4F44240728FBDB8C19DBBC915@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4C36A40B.2010303@colbyconsulting.com> How do you do that though? If you go to linked tables, those are ODBC correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Now that we are on the subject of connection databases and I am not > interested in the bound or unbound discussion, but in defense of ADO-OLE > over ODBC. > > A little preamble; 2001 and the company I was worked for crashed and burned > but I bid on a excellent project of connecting Oracle to 80-90 desktops > worth up go 100k. I used the standard ODBC connection. Performance was > acceptable for ADD and UPDATE but SELECT was so slow... Needless to say, no > excuses, I lost the contract. I fortunately, I got a second chance, with > another department and this time, after a bit of research won the contract. > The contract was for a F/T programming project which extended for almost 3 > years. This time I used ADO-OLE and the performance was superior to any > application out there... nearly twice as fast as Oracle's own desktop > product. > > ADO is one of the most under-rated connection products. It is free and comes > on all Windows OS since Win95, requires no installs as everyone, no matter > how far away, has it. There is none of this going from one desktop to > another to set things up. ADO also has a lot of built-in functionality; it > has the Shape object that works like a Transpose matrix... great for super > fast cross-tabs. Then the Stream object for transferring pictures, documents > and video (though I never tried the streaming video in a client's app)... at > the time it was fastest streaming method available and it could make your > network look like it had a Flash Server. ADO synchronization so that data > could be coming for multiple sources and be 'unioned' together... great for > cross-referencing data. There are many other objects that very impressive > and again they are very lean and very fast. > > I must admit that ODBC is initially easier to setup but with a big or > long-term project ADO is superior in every way. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:31 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before > > Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by ODBC > and carry on as > usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system > upgrading a piece at > a time. > > I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but make > sure that the > gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jul 9 01:15:52 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 02:15:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Message-ID: <380-2201075961552466@M2W130.mail2web.com> Rumors of our death are greatly exaggerated. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0700 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >are doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >>of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com ? What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Fri Jul 9 04:36:26 2010 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:36:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <380-2201075961552466@M2W130.mail2web.com> Message-ID: <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> It's a well kept secret that many of us have actually moved into a secret nursing home together. Here we lie, in adjacent beds, swapping stories of early computers, programming in Assembler, Access version 2, and so on. The food's crap but the wifi's terrific so from time to time we have a bit of fun by going on AccessD, founded by our forefathers, throwing in a question and all having a go at answering it. If we're really bored we shout "unbound" at JC. It keeps us amused. So, old boys, yes. Pathetic, undoubtedly, but we'll hang around until the grim reaper (or Bill Gates) gets us. Matron, pass the bed pan! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: 09 July 2010 07:16 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Rumors of our death are greatly exaggerated. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0700 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >are doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >>of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paulrster at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 04:40:14 2010 From: paulrster at gmail.com (paul) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:40:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> References: <380-2201075961552466@M2W130.mail2web.com> <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> Message-ID: Well done, Andy! :) On 9 July 2010 10:36, Andy Lacey wrote: > It's a well kept secret that many of us have actually moved into a secret > nursing home together. Here we lie, in adjacent beds, swapping stories of > early computers, programming in Assembler, Access version 2, and so on. The > food's crap but the wifi's terrific so from time to time we have a bit of > fun by going on AccessD, founded by our forefathers, throwing in a question > and all having a go at answering it. If we're really bored we shout > "unbound" at JC. It keeps us amused. So, old boys, yes. Pathetic, > undoubtedly, but we'll hang around until the grim reaper (or Bill Gates) > gets us. > > Matron, pass the bed pan! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rockysmolin at bchacc.com > Sent: 09 July 2010 07:16 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > > > Rumors of our death are greatly exaggerated. > > Rocky > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0700 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > > My Friend > You insult me. > This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This > was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community > willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just > the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I > think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. > > > Gary Kjos wrote: > > >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development > >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked > >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > > > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list > >members for not doing..... not sure what. > > > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an > >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what > >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is > >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had > >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that > >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row > >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so > >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > > > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we > >are doing what we can. > > > > > >GK > > > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > > > > >>Well toss us a question!!! > >> > >>Drew > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM > >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > >> > >>Hey All > >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since > >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't > >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones > >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being > >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount > >>of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. > >>-- > >>AccessD mailing list > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web.com - What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? > http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 07:55:38 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:55:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> References: <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> Message-ID: <4C371C4A.1080807@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Andy Lacey wrote: > It's a well kept secret that many of us have actually moved into a secret > nursing home together. Here we lie, in adjacent beds, swapping stories of > early computers, programming in Assembler, Access version 2, and so on. The > food's crap but the wifi's terrific so from time to time we have a bit of > fun by going on AccessD, founded by our forefathers, throwing in a question > and all having a go at answering it. If we're really bored we shout > "unbound" at JC. It keeps us amused. So, old boys, yes. Pathetic, > undoubtedly, but we'll hang around until the grim reaper (or Bill Gates) > gets us. > > Matron, pass the bed pan! > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > rockysmolin at bchacc.com > Sent: 09 July 2010 07:16 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > > > Rumors of our death are greatly exaggerated. > > Rocky > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com > Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0700 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > > > My Friend > You insult me. > This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This > was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community > willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just > the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I > think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. > > > Gary Kjos wrote: > >> And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >> like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >> most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. >> >> I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >> members for not doing..... not sure what. >> >> I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >> administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >> more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >> probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >> it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >> people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >> limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >> the user community sticks with Excel for those things. >> >> Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >> are doing what we can. >> >> >> GK >> >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: >> >> >>> Well toss us a question!!! >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >>> >>> Hey All >>> I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>> 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>> see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >> >from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>> saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >>> of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 07:56:40 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:56:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI In-Reply-To: References: <4C367731.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C371C88.80403@colbyconsulting.com> I have never used the treeview in Access. I keep threatening to but I can't seem to get at any events, and it seems pretty klunky (in VBA). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Ramz . wrote: > Thanks for the replies guys! > > Drew, I'm just looking into other ways of providing sleek-looking GUI for > the custom Access projects I'm working on. Is there any website that you > know of that would show some samples (and possibly sample code as well) on > different designs of GUI for Access? > > John, I'd love to know how to come up with a tree-view GUI in Access. I'm > currently using Access 2007. > > -- Ramil > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:11 PM, jwcolby wrote: > >> Ramil, >> >> I think it was Arthur that loved the treeview. And William. >> >> Hey guys, where are you. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Ramz . wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> How is everyone? I'm new here and I am enjoying the sharing of >> information, >>> Access-related or otherwise, as most of the things being discussed are >> new >>> and interesting for me. I was hoping to come across a discussion on >> creating >>> nice and professional-looking forms in Access, or maybe something that >> might >>> look like MS Outlook, with the sidebar tree-view. Has anyone done >> something >>> like this? Has anyone come across something like this? I would very much >>> appreciate it if someone can share some thoughts, or links, on how to >> create >>> professional-looking forms. As someone once said here, the clients mostly >>> care about the "looks" of the system, as this is what they interact with >> all >>> the time... >>> >>> Thanks! >>> Ramil >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Jul 9 08:07:39 2010 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 06:07:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club Message-ID: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of you have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a word?)) is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" that we used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries with that?". Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . From garykjos at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 08:19:34 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:19:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Charlotte Foust Message-ID: I did send a message to Charlotte off list and asked how she was doing and if she was working again. She replied back that she was still looking for work. I think it was April that she was laid off. I encouraged her to get back on the the list to share her expertise and experience with us. Her address is charlotte.foust at gmail.com -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Fri Jul 9 08:31:11 2010 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 09:31:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Early Friday In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C37249F.4090103@torchlake.com> Absolutely hilarious! I need to remember that - I keep making the mistake of asking. T Jim Lawrence wrote: > Here is a funny... or why you should always encourage your friends and > neighbours to try and figure out a solution to a computer problem before > calling you. > > http://xkcd.com/763/ > > Jim > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 08:29:53 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 09:29:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Do ya need the bed pan? It's coming by. C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server. I am not doing "Access like" projects yet but I am doing some pretty powerful data manipulation stuff with it. For sheer programming power, C# is the most powerful environment I have ever seen and it just keeps getting better. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog > (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of > you > have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a > word?)) > is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" > that we > used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times > Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. > Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries > with that?". > > Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . From garykjos at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 08:35:01 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:35:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: I insulted YOU? You have to be joking but I sense that your are not. OK, I'm done. Before I really say something insulting. GK On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > My Friend > You insult me. > This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. ?This > was ?one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community > willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just > the old boys, ?disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. ?I > think it is indicating a demise of the ?Access community. > > > Gary Kjos wrote: > >>And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >>like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >>most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. >> >>I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >>members for not doing..... not sure what. >> >>I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >>administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >>more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >>probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >>it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >>people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >>limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >>the user community sticks with Excel for those things. >> >>Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >>are doing what we can. >> >> >>GK -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 08:43:34 2010 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:43:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4c372789.6202e70a.2821.3993@mx.google.com> Actually, I am in the middle of a contract that states I MUST use Access 2007. When the contract started I was supposed to use SQL Server 2005 as a BE. But because they couldn't get the IT department to approve a server the BE will also be Access 2007. So the entire contract is for Access. Talk is they are going to extend the contract for another year. I was also offered a permanent job as a programmer specifically for Access. Granted, this is for the government and agencies do have major problems getting anything approved. However, Access is an "approved" software package and as such does not need to get approval for its use. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hi Tony: The truth is that Access application have moved from being major a development system for large to small businesses to little more than a nitch product. All here that are working full-time, in the computer industry are now supporting dozens of different products and hardware and Access has been moved to little more than a power user tool... I do not think there is anyone here who makes their living from just from Access anymore and if they are, they are making plans to move their client's applications to .Net and ASP.Net. with a MS SQL BE. There are other DBA Lists which are reflecting those changes and have slowly becoming more active like VB list (all things .Net and Web-based), SQL list (all things SQL and database related) and the Tech list (all things new in the computer world and Web issues). Times change Tony and you as a programmer should know that better than anyone. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we are >doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the >>amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mmattys at rochester.rr.com Fri Jul 9 08:52:07 2010 From: mmattys at rochester.rr.com (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:52:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQLServer and C# (Was:Just Another Old Boys Club) In-Reply-To: <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: My brother and I have been using WPF/XAML with C# and the geographic and geometric features of SQLS2008. Very cool stuff! And Access like! Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 9:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club LOL. Do ya need the bed pan? It's coming by. C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server. I am not doing "Access like" projects yet but I am doing some pretty powerful data manipulation stuff with it. For sheer programming power, C# is the most powerful environment I have ever seen and it just keeps getting better. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog > (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some > of you have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right > crudely(is that a > word?)) > is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" > that we > used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times > Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. > Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries > with that?". > > Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jul 9 09:25:29 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:25:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who would that 'fit' on the web? I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all consuming. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. You would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... most of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her station can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream in to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is one of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their importance, especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, the desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support their web or web interface apps. That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net project. While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the web as being an all encompassing platform. Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through WMI, in a fraction of a second. The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is ludicrous. Just my opinion though. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jul 9 09:29:10 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:29:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI In-Reply-To: References: <4C367731.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I don't know any sites out there, but I do know how to use treeviews. I've posted samples on how to use a treeview in Access. (Though I have never used one in 2007). Treeviews are very flexible/powerful, so the question is what exactly do you want to do with it. Just using it as an interface is a little too broad a scope for me to be of any help. To say I want to display xxx in such a way ... etc. Then I can probably help. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ramz . Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 11:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Custom GUI Thanks for the replies guys! Drew, I'm just looking into other ways of providing sleek-looking GUI for the custom Access projects I'm working on. Is there any website that you know of that would show some samples (and possibly sample code as well) on different designs of GUI for Access? John, I'd love to know how to come up with a tree-view GUI in Access. I'm currently using Access 2007. -- Ramil On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:11 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Ramil, > > I think it was Arthur that loved the treeview. And William. > > Hey guys, where are you. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Jul 9 09:32:21 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:32:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: LOL. I think you mean : " ?Desea papas fritas con eso?" ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club Hey All After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of you have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a word?)) is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" that we used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries with that?". Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 09:43:20 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 10:43:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4C373588.7060400@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. Not to mention the power outage knocking out the cable and then having no connection to the web. Suddenly I cannot even look at a spreadsheet, or create a word document? I don't think so. I run a business which uses SQL Server to do massive processing stuff. I run it all on my servers and the application I use is SS Management Server (never going web) and my own custom written C# app (no reason to ever go web). If I lose power, I have a generator and I can merrily continue onward with my work. There is just no way I would ever put this whole thing on the web, or even use a browser to replace the in-house desktop apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved > to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming > along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't > fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a > home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user > stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget > on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who > would that 'fit' on the web? > > I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I > agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all > consuming. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. > You > would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... > most > of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. > > For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her > station > can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is > calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream > in > to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is > one > of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to > assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. > > There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their > importance, > especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, > the > desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support > their web or web interface apps. > > That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a > lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net > project. > > While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, > and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the > web as being an all encompassing platform. > > Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to > the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on > average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag > number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes > about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the > service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through > WMI, in a fraction of a second. > > The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is > ludicrous. > > Just my opinion though. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 10:15:46 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:15:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C373D22.3070503@colbyconsulting.com> Ya know you're a good ole boy if you remember... All the girls had ugly gym uniforms? It took three minutes for the TV to warm up? Nobody owned a purebred dog? When a quarter was a decent allowance? You'd reach into a muddy gutter for a penny? Your Mom wore nylons that came in two pieces? You got your windshield cleaned, oil checked, and gas pumped, without asking, all for free, every time? And you didn't pay for air? And, you got trading stamps to boot? Laundry detergent had free glasses, dishes or towels hidden inside the box? It was considered a great privilege to be taken out to dinner at a real restaurant with your parents? They threatened to keep kids back a grade if they failed... and they did it! When a 57 Chevy was everyone's dream car... to cruise, peel out, lay rubber or watch submarine races, and people went steady? No one ever asked where the car keys were because they were always in the car, in the ignition, and the doors were never locked? Lying on your back in the grass with your friends and saying things like, 'That cloud looks like a... '? Playing baseball with no adults to help kids with the rules of the game? Stuff from the store came without safety caps and hermetic seals because no one had yet tried to poison a perfect stranger? And with all our progress, don't you just wish, just once, you could slip back in time and savor the slower pace, and share it with the children of today. When being sent to the principal's office was nothing compared to the fate that awaited the student at home? Basically we were in fear for our lives, but it wasn't because of drive-by shootings, drugs, gangs, etc. Our parents and grandparents were a much bigger threat! But we survived because their love was greater than the threat. ...as well as summers filled with bike rides, Hula Hoops, and visits to the pool, and eating Kool-Aid powder with sugar. Didn't that feel good, just to go back and say, 'Yeah, I remember that'? I am sharing this with you today because it ended with a Double Dog Dare to pass it on. To remember what a Double Dog Dare is, read on. And remember that the perfect age is somewhere between old enough to know better and too young to care. Send this on to someone who can still remember Howdy Doody and ThePeanut Gallery, the Lone Ranger, The Shadow knows,Nellie Bell, Roy and Dale, Trigger and Buttermilk. How Many Of These Do You Remember? Candy cigarettes Wax Coke-shaped bottles with colored sugar water inside. Soda pop machines that dispensed glass bottles. Coffee shops with Table Side Jukeboxes. Blackjack, Clove and Teaberry chewing gum. Home milk delivery in glass bottles with cardboard stoppers. Newsreels before the movie. Telephone numbers with a word prefix...( Yukon 2-601). Party lines. Peashooters. Hi-Fi's &45 RPM records. 78 RPM records! Green Stamps . Mimeograph paper. The Fort Apache Play Set. Do You Remember a Time When? Decisions were made by going 'eeny-meeny-miney-moe'? Mistakes were corrected by simply exclaiming, 'Do Over!'? 'Race issue' meant arguing about who ran the fastest? Catching The Fireflies Could Happily Occupy An Entire Evening? It wasn't odd to have two or three 'Best Friends'? Having a Weapon in School meant being caught with a Slingshot? Saturday morning cartoons weren't 30-minute commercials for action figures? 'Oly-oly-oxen-free' made perfect sense? Spinning around, getting dizzy, and falling down was cause for giggles? The Worst Embarrassment was being picked last for a team? War was a card game? Baseball cards in the spokes transformed any bike into a motorcycle? Taking drugs meant orange - flavored chewable aspirin? Water balloons were the ultimate weapon? If you can remember most or all of these, Then You Have Lived!!!!!!! Pass this on to anyone who may need a break from their 'Grown-Up' Life . . I Double-Dog-Dare-Ya! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > LOL. > > I think you mean : " ?Desea papas fritas con eso?" > > ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club > > Hey All > After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog > (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of > you > have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a > word?)) > is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" > that we > used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times > Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. > Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries > with that?". > > Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 10:21:23 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:21:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before In-Reply-To: <4C36A40B.2010303@colbyconsulting.com> References: <29B79F798B594D9AA2CDE1243BB940CB@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C364397.6025.1C6AF7EA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0FFA8FC4F44240728FBDB8C19DBBC915@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C36A40B.2010303@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: MS Access has a ODBC method that is links and uses a pass-through technique to connect to the data source... Now I must admit I am not an expert with bound or pass-through methods for connecting with FE/BE... (The last time I attempted to work with it it was over 10 years ago...and I must be honest with you that I have tried to forget experience.) When it comes to running remote users, I have traditionally used a bare form, report, list, combo and applied a recordset source upon open/load. To speed the whole operation up a connection with the MS SQL server is established upon login. There are no local queries as they are all at the BE as SPs...this of course is also for speed. A repeatedly used query is optimized on the server and then cached. The only data that is kept locally is the positioning data (IE which record of the form or list has focus?) Then there is static or semi-static data (IE a city list or name list) Forms are populated in-real time. In otherward, the instance the users navigates to a record a request for new data to fill the record is made, the server gets the request, a local recordset is filled and the form is populated. (This of course is also for speed as a small amount of data can transferred so fast that a user moving from one record to another should notice no delays) As long as the connection between the SQL and the recordset is maintained the data is effectively synced and can be resyned. I used have to do the resyncing manually (via a method called asnchronous notification... in otherwards tell me if any of the data I am working with has changed on the server) but I understand that the current ADO even has a method, similar to AJAX which can will quitely resync, in background on a field by field bases. (My ADO bible is 10 years out of date, a little ragged and with about 1000 pages and still there is a lot I do not know about the API.) In a network or remote environment only keep the connection open to recordset (persistant) of the specific record and only when it is being worked on (sync at the instance a record is being added or updated) Aside: In most system, I never delete records, just flip a flag and force a refresh, recount and reposition. Close all connections when viewing records for example or after populating a list etc. Connections cost, in time, performance and you have to pay for number of connections your SQL Server... unless you have bought the the unlimited license package. Usually, I have found, if properly programmed, 20 connection can do a hundred users but 10 is a minimum. In summary, ADO is the precursor to all the data connection functionality now built into the .Net apps. The .Net applications have not improved the automation and in fact to create a stellar app it still requires a lot of grunt work especially if you are in an environment of multi-users, multi-data sources with a mixture of local and remote requirements. This is just nudge of the proverbial iceberg. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before How do you do that though? If you go to linked tables, those are ODBC correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Now that we are on the subject of connection databases and I am not > interested in the bound or unbound discussion, but in defense of ADO-OLE > over ODBC. > > A little preamble; 2001 and the company I was worked for crashed and burned > but I bid on a excellent project of connecting Oracle to 80-90 desktops > worth up go 100k. I used the standard ODBC connection. Performance was > acceptable for ADD and UPDATE but SELECT was so slow... Needless to say, no > excuses, I lost the contract. I fortunately, I got a second chance, with > another department and this time, after a bit of research won the contract. > The contract was for a F/T programming project which extended for almost 3 > years. This time I used ADO-OLE and the performance was superior to any > application out there... nearly twice as fast as Oracle's own desktop > product. > > ADO is one of the most under-rated connection products. It is free and comes > on all Windows OS since Win95, requires no installs as everyone, no matter > how far away, has it. There is none of this going from one desktop to > another to set things up. ADO also has a lot of built-in functionality; it > has the Shape object that works like a Transpose matrix... great for super > fast cross-tabs. Then the Stream object for transferring pictures, documents > and video (though I never tried the streaming video in a client's app)... at > the time it was fastest streaming method available and it could make your > network look like it had a Flash Server. ADO synchronization so that data > could be coming for multiple sources and be 'unioned' together... great for > cross-referencing data. There are many other objects that very impressive > and again they are very lean and very fast. > > I must admit that ODBC is initially easier to setup but with a big or > long-term project ADO is superior in every way. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:31 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Terrible performance like I have never seen before > > Alternatively, just upsize the data, link to the SQL Server tables by ODBC > and carry on as > usual for a start. Then you can work your way through the new system > upgrading a piece at > a time. > > I don't want to get the bound/unbound arguments stirred up again, but make > sure that the > gains are worth it before you go to the dark side. :-) > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 10:22:50 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:22:50 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> References: <380-2201075961552466@M2W130.mail2web.com> <77565C6FB8D64E828FA28866C254BD98@MINSTER> Message-ID: <41889EADE94340E1AA02084DF9F842A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Very funny Andy. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 2:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club It's a well kept secret that many of us have actually moved into a secret nursing home together. Here we lie, in adjacent beds, swapping stories of early computers, programming in Assembler, Access version 2, and so on. The food's crap but the wifi's terrific so from time to time we have a bit of fun by going on AccessD, founded by our forefathers, throwing in a question and all having a go at answering it. If we're really bored we shout "unbound" at JC. It keeps us amused. So, old boys, yes. Pathetic, undoubtedly, but we'll hang around until the grim reaper (or Bill Gates) gets us. Matron, pass the bed pan! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: 09 July 2010 07:16 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Rumors of our death are greatly exaggerated. Rocky Original Message: ----------------- From: Tony Septav iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:54:44 -0700 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we >are doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount >>of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 10:27:57 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:27:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <73721BF5D34C42ABBCD90CD913565CC0@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hey Tony; there is nothing like throwing a hand grenade in the chicken coop to see if anyone is awake... we all have to do it from time to time. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club Hey All After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of you have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a word?)) is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" that we used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries with that?". Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 10:35:25 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:35:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Please pass, don't throw it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club LOL. Do ya need the bed pan? It's coming by. C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server. I am not doing "Access like" projects yet but I am doing some pretty powerful data manipulation stuff with it. For sheer programming power, C# is the most powerful environment I have ever seen and it just keeps getting better. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog > (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of > you > have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a > word?)) > is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" > that we > used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times > Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. > Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries > with that?". > > Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 10:37:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 08:37:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4c372789.6202e70a.2821.3993@mx.google.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C363B14.1000701@nanaimo.ark.com> <4c372789.6202e70a.2821.3993@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim: That is so heartening to hear. Keep up the good work. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 6:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Actually, I am in the middle of a contract that states I MUST use Access 2007. When the contract started I was supposed to use SQL Server 2005 as a BE. But because they couldn't get the IT department to approve a server the BE will also be Access 2007. So the entire contract is for Access. Talk is they are going to extend the contract for another year. I was also offered a permanent job as a programmer specifically for Access. Granted, this is for the government and agencies do have major problems getting anything approved. However, Access is an "approved" software package and as such does not need to get approval for its use. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hi Tony: The truth is that Access application have moved from being major a development system for large to small businesses to little more than a nitch product. All here that are working full-time, in the computer industry are now supporting dozens of different products and hardware and Access has been moved to little more than a power user tool... I do not think there is anyone here who makes their living from just from Access anymore and if they are, they are making plans to move their client's applications to .Net and ASP.Net. with a MS SQL BE. There are other DBA Lists which are reflecting those changes and have slowly becoming more active like VB list (all things .Net and Web-based), SQL list (all things SQL and database related) and the Tech list (all things new in the computer world and Web issues). Times change Tony and you as a programmer should know that better than anyone. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we are >doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the >>amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 11:02:08 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:02:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: I agree Drew... you can never take the P out of PC. As for spreadsheets, both Google and Microsoft have a web version; and they are quite nice. Graphic programs need the local muscle to truly functional but OTOH the big boys like ArcInfo, InterGraph, XSI or even Google Maps etc... are half and half. Half runs on the desktop but source can be stored anywhere as it is just math algorithms, wire-frames and properties (can be XML format)... something like Flash with its Linear graphics. These apps are designed to be a distributive system. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who would that 'fit' on the web? I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all consuming. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. You would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... most of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her station can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream in to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is one of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their importance, especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, the desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support their web or web interface apps. That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net project. While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the web as being an all encompassing platform. Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through WMI, in a fraction of a second. The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is ludicrous. Just my opinion though. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 11:05:49 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 09:05:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <4C373588.7060400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C373588.7060400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1BB1BF40E63544FB9BDA4D6DFC4574FF@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi John: There are two ends to the web... the supplier end and user end. With your business you fall into the supplier end. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development Yep. Not to mention the power outage knocking out the cable and then having no connection to the web. Suddenly I cannot even look at a spreadsheet, or create a word document? I don't think so. I run a business which uses SQL Server to do massive processing stuff. I run it all on my servers and the application I use is SS Management Server (never going web) and my own custom written C# app (no reason to ever go web). If I lose power, I have a generator and I can merrily continue onward with my work. There is just no way I would ever put this whole thing on the web, or even use a browser to replace the in-house desktop apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved > to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming > along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't > fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a > home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user > stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget > on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who > would that 'fit' on the web? > > I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I > agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all > consuming. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. > You > would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... > most > of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. > > For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her > station > can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is > calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream > in > to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is > one > of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to > assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. > > There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their > importance, > especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, > the > desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support > their web or web interface apps. > > That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a > lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net > project. > > While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, > and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the > web as being an all encompassing platform. > > Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to > the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on > average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag > number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes > about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the > service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through > WMI, in a fraction of a second. > > The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is > ludicrous. > > Just my opinion though. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john.k.serrano at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 11:10:09 2010 From: john.k.serrano at gmail.com (js) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:10:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hello all! I have enjoyed hearing every one's idea on how this site has changed. I am also new here and want to thank all of you for sharing your knowledge. I have learned so much from you folks and want to thank you all. JC, I am wanting to pick up C# also can you offer some advice on where to start, C# sites, or books? What is the learning curve coming from VBA? Any advice would be appreciated THANKS! On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. Do ya need the bed pan? It's coming by. > > C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server. I am not doing > "Access like" projects > yet but I am doing some pretty powerful data manipulation stuff with it. > For sheer programming > power, C# is the most powerful environment I have ever seen and it just > keeps getting better. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Tony Septav wrote: > > Hey All > > After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog > > (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of > > you > > have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a > > word?)) > > is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" > > that we > > used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times > > Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. > > Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries > > with that?". > > > > Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- John Serrano 757 651 - 4320 jsgrp.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 11:56:28 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:56:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <1BB1BF40E63544FB9BDA4D6DFC4574FF@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C373588.7060400@colbyconsulting.com> <1BB1BF40E63544FB9BDA4D6DFC4574FF@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4C3754BC.30700@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, You are correct of course, but the point is that the web isn't the end all. When the internet connection goes down, with Thunderbird for example I can be busily writing emails, looking at old emails with attachments (lots of those) etc. With GMail I can't. My client sends me spreadsheets with the order details. With Excel they are stored on my local computer and I can be working on his order. With Google Spreadsheet (what is it called?) I can't. Just one of many examples. MAYBE someday the connection to the internet will be 100% reliable, just NEVER go down. OTOH how long have we been using electricity and phone. How often do those go down. Yea, I am the extreme perhaps, though for businesses perhaps not. I bought a propane powered "whole house" generator and I have battery backup to get my computers through the 30 seconds until the generator fires up and kicks in. When the power (and internet) fail, I am out of business for about 30 seconds at night (no light) but otherwise I just go on with what I am doing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > There are two ends to the web... the supplier end and user end. With your > business you fall into the supplier end. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:43 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Yep. Not to mention the power outage knocking out the cable and then having > no connection to the > web. Suddenly I cannot even look at a spreadsheet, or create a word > document? > > I don't think so. > > I run a business which uses SQL Server to do massive processing stuff. I > run it all on my servers > and the application I use is SS Management Server (never going web) and my > own custom written C# app > (no reason to ever go web). If I lose power, I have a generator and I can > merrily continue onward > with my work. There is just no way I would ever put this whole thing on the > web, or even use a > browser to replace the in-house desktop apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Drew Wutka wrote: >> For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved >> to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming >> along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't >> fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a >> home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user >> stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget >> on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who >> would that 'fit' on the web? >> >> I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I >> agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all >> consuming. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >> >> Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. >> You >> would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... >> most >> of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. >> >> For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her >> station >> can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is >> calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream >> in >> to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is >> one >> of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to >> assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. >> >> There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their >> importance, >> especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, >> the >> desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support >> their web or web interface apps. >> >> That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >> >> I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a >> lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net >> project. >> >> While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, >> and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the >> web as being an all encompassing platform. >> >> Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to >> the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on >> average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag >> number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes >> about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the >> service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through >> WMI, in a fraction of a second. >> >> The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is >> ludicrous. >> >> Just my opinion though. >> >> Drew >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> From pharold at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 9 13:13:50 2010 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:13:50 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C373D22.3070503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Describes me almost perfectly. Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club Ya know you're a good ole boy if you remember... All the girls had ugly gym uniforms? It took three minutes for the TV to warm up? Nobody owned a purebred dog? When a quarter was a decent allowance? You'd reach into a muddy gutter for a penny? Your Mom wore nylons that came in two pieces? You got your windshield cleaned, oil checked, and gas pumped, without asking, all for free, every time? And you didn't pay for air? And, you got trading stamps to boot? Laundry detergent had free glasses, dishes or towels hidden inside the box? It was considered a great privilege to be taken out to dinner at a real restaurant with your parents? They threatened to keep kids back a grade if they failed... and they did it! When a 57 Chevy was everyone's dream car... to cruise, peel out, lay rubber or watch submarine races, and people went steady? No one ever asked where the car keys were because they were always in the car, in the ignition, and the doors were never locked? Lying on your back in the grass with your friends and saying things like, 'That cloud looks like a... '? Playing baseball with no adults to help kids with the rules of the game? Stuff from the store came without safety caps and hermetic seals because no one had yet tried to poison a perfect stranger? And with all our progress, don't you just wish, just once, you could slip back in time and savor the slower pace, and share it with the children of today. When being sent to the principal's office was nothing compared to the fate that awaited the student at home? Basically we were in fear for our lives, but it wasn't because of drive-by shootings, drugs, gangs, etc. Our parents and grandparents were a much bigger threat! But we survived because their love was greater than the threat. ...as well as summers filled with bike rides, Hula Hoops, and visits to the pool, and eating Kool-Aid powder with sugar. Didn't that feel good, just to go back and say, 'Yeah, I remember that'? I am sharing this with you today because it ended with a Double Dog Dare to pass it on. To remember what a Double Dog Dare is, read on. And remember that the perfect age is somewhere between old enough to know better and too young to care. Send this on to someone who can still remember Howdy Doody and ThePeanut Gallery, the Lone Ranger, The Shadow knows,Nellie Bell, Roy and Dale, Trigger and Buttermilk. How Many Of These Do You Remember? Candy cigarettes Wax Coke-shaped bottles with colored sugar water inside. Soda pop machines that dispensed glass bottles. Coffee shops with Table Side Jukeboxes. Blackjack, Clove and Teaberry chewing gum. Home milk delivery in glass bottles with cardboard stoppers. Newsreels before the movie. Telephone numbers with a word prefix...( Yukon 2-601). Party lines. Peashooters. Hi-Fi's &45 RPM records. 78 RPM records! Green Stamps . Mimeograph paper. The Fort Apache Play Set. Do You Remember a Time When? Decisions were made by going 'eeny-meeny-miney-moe'? Mistakes were corrected by simply exclaiming, 'Do Over!'? 'Race issue' meant arguing about who ran the fastest? Catching The Fireflies Could Happily Occupy An Entire Evening? It wasn't odd to have two or three 'Best Friends'? Having a Weapon in School meant being caught with a Slingshot? Saturday morning cartoons weren't 30-minute commercials for action figures? 'Oly-oly-oxen-free' made perfect sense? Spinning around, getting dizzy, and falling down was cause for giggles? The Worst Embarrassment was being picked last for a team? War was a card game? Baseball cards in the spokes transformed any bike into a motorcycle? Taking drugs meant orange - flavored chewable aspirin? Water balloons were the ultimate weapon? If you can remember most or all of these, Then You Have Lived!!!!!!! Pass this on to anyone who may need a break from their 'Grown-Up' Life . . I Double-Dog-Dare-Ya! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > LOL. > > I think you mean : " ?Desea papas fritas con eso?" > > ;) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 8:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club > > Hey All > After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog > (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of > you > have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a > word?)) > is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" > that we > used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times > Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. > Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries > with that?". > > Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 9 13:16:14 2010 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:16:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C373588.7060400@colbyconsulting.com><1BB1BF40E63544FB9BDA4D6DFC4574FF@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C3754BC.30700@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9DAE0EEB813946E7830CD6B15A77C02F@ptiorl.local> Remember when you were in the cloud it meant you were daydreaming? Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "jwcolby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:56 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > Jim, > > You are correct of course, but the point is that the web isn't the end > all. > > When the internet connection goes down, with Thunderbird for example I can > be busily writing emails, > looking at old emails with attachments (lots of those) etc. With GMail I > can't. > > My client sends me spreadsheets with the order details. With Excel they > are stored on my local > computer and I can be working on his order. With Google Spreadsheet (what > is it called?) I can't. > > Just one of many examples. > > MAYBE someday the connection to the internet will be 100% reliable, just > NEVER go down. OTOH how > long have we been using electricity and phone. How often do those go > down. > > Yea, I am the extreme perhaps, though for businesses perhaps not. I > bought a propane powered "whole > house" generator and I have battery backup to get my computers through the > 30 seconds until the > generator fires up and kicks in. When the power (and internet) fail, I am > out of business for about > 30 seconds at night (no light) but otherwise I just go on with what I am > doing. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi John: >> >> There are two ends to the web... the supplier end and user end. With your >> business you fall into the supplier end. ;-) >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:43 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >> >> Yep. Not to mention the power outage knocking out the cable and then >> having >> no connection to the >> web. Suddenly I cannot even look at a spreadsheet, or create a word >> document? >> >> I don't think so. >> >> I run a business which uses SQL Server to do massive processing stuff. I >> run it all on my servers >> and the application I use is SS Management Server (never going web) and >> my >> own custom written C# app >> (no reason to ever go web). If I lose power, I have a generator and I >> can >> merrily continue onward >> with my work. There is just no way I would ever put this whole thing on >> the >> web, or even use a >> browser to replace the in-house desktop apps. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Drew Wutka wrote: >>> For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved >>> to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming >>> along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't >>> fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a >>> home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user >>> stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget >>> on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who >>> would that 'fit' on the web? >>> >>> I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I >>> agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all >>> consuming. >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >>> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM >>> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >>> >>> Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. >>> You >>> would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... >>> most >>> of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. >>> >>> For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her >>> station >>> can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is >>> calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream >>> in >>> to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is >>> one >>> of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to >>> assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. >>> >>> There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their >>> importance, >>> especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, >>> the >>> desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support >>> their web or web interface apps. >>> >>> That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >>> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >>> >>> I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a >>> lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net >>> project. >>> >>> While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, >>> and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the >>> web as being an all encompassing platform. >>> >>> Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to >>> the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on >>> average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag >>> number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes >>> about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the >>> service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through >>> WMI, in a fraction of a second. >>> >>> The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is >>> ludicrous. >>> >>> Just my opinion though. >>> >>> Drew >>> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >>> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >>> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please >>> contact >> the sender >>> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or hard copy. >>> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >>> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this >>> information >> by persons >>> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >>> >>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 13:57:27 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:57:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development In-Reply-To: <4C3754BC.30700@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C364199.15922.1C632EB2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <78408BFA7414482DB50F4DD07ADF60A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9A64C5E1C26447D98836C85C1E91060D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C373588.7060400@colbyconsulting.com> <1BB1BF40E63544FB9BDA4D6DFC4574FF@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C3754BC.30700@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: You are correct in that the internet is not as stable as having an application running on your desktop. But OTOH, my job of recent tends to be going to a client's site, especially if they are working for a large company, and removing their servers to be replaced a server which is little less than a glorified pass-through hub. All the major banks are slowly replacing their onsite servers with small box hubs connect to their central offices. Banks are definitely the most conservative bunch (belts with suspenders) and when they fully embrace a technology they are assuming it is very reliable or just more reliable than local servers. Mind you if the power goes out then everything goes down but most big companies seem blissfully unconcerned. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 9:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development Jim, You are correct of course, but the point is that the web isn't the end all. When the internet connection goes down, with Thunderbird for example I can be busily writing emails, looking at old emails with attachments (lots of those) etc. With GMail I can't. My client sends me spreadsheets with the order details. With Excel they are stored on my local computer and I can be working on his order. With Google Spreadsheet (what is it called?) I can't. Just one of many examples. MAYBE someday the connection to the internet will be 100% reliable, just NEVER go down. OTOH how long have we been using electricity and phone. How often do those go down. Yea, I am the extreme perhaps, though for businesses perhaps not. I bought a propane powered "whole house" generator and I have battery backup to get my computers through the 30 seconds until the generator fires up and kicks in. When the power (and internet) fail, I am out of business for about 30 seconds at night (no light) but otherwise I just go on with what I am doing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > There are two ends to the web... the supplier end and user end. With your > business you fall into the supplier end. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 7:43 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development > > Yep. Not to mention the power outage knocking out the cable and then having > no connection to the > web. Suddenly I cannot even look at a spreadsheet, or create a word > document? > > I don't think so. > > I run a business which uses SQL Server to do massive processing stuff. I > run it all on my servers > and the application I use is SS Management Server (never going web) and my > own custom written C# app > (no reason to ever go web). If I lose power, I have a generator and I can > merrily continue onward > with my work. There is just no way I would ever put this whole thing on the > web, or even use a > browser to replace the in-house desktop apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Drew Wutka wrote: >> For many data centric apps, I agree that a vast majority will be moved >> to a web interface. But I just don't see a truly web only world coming >> along anytime soon. There are too many applications which either don't >> fit with a web design, or simply won't work with a web design. Take a >> home user that wants to do their budget. No way will the average user >> stop using their own spreadsheet program, to put their personal budget >> on the web instead. How about design software, like SolidWorks.... who >> would that 'fit' on the web? >> >> I believe the web has gotten massively bigger in the last decade, and I >> agree it will continue to get bigger, it just will never be all >> consuming. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:55 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >> >> Most of the POS web stuff I work with is all proprietary applications. >> You >> would never see any of it unless you work in the particular company... >> most >> of it is web based or cytrix based and all connected via VPNs. >> >> For example, just check out your Wal-Mart casher... The app on her >> station >> can be changed every night and every thing sold or brought back, is >> calibrated in virtually real time. Sales from all over the world stream >> in >> to some central office, in the US. (I can not remember where). This is >> one >> of IBM's big contracts but I have been brought in, from time to time, to >> assist with server installs and district wide roll-outs. >> >> There is and always will be a place for desktop apps but their >> importance, >> especially among the giants of industry who want centralized control, >> the >> desktop is no longer used other than as a platform from which to support >> their web or web interface apps. >> >> That is the way I see everything going but I could be wrong. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 7:21 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MS WebMatrix for web development >> >> I've been building web applications for quite some time. I've seen a >> lot of change in web stuff. Just got my feet wet with an ASP.Net >> project. >> >> While I partially agree, that web applications will continue to grow, >> and more and more things will be web interfaces, I just can't see the >> web as being an all encompassing platform. >> >> Let me give you an example of where web interfaces fall flat. I go to >> the Dell website pretty frequently. I setup about 1 computer a week, on >> average. So I use the utility on their site that gets the service tag >> number of the new machine, to download drivers. That 'tool', takes >> about 20 seconds to install. It then takes about 15 seconds to get the >> service tag. I have my own VB program that gets the same info through >> WMI, in a fraction of a second. >> >> The web is too open. To give it the power a local application has is >> ludicrous. >> >> Just my opinion though. >> >> Drew >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 14:06:48 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:06:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Suddenly I can see Message-ID: <4C377348.9030103@colbyconsulting.com> I bought a nice little (big actually) 4U rack mount case for my SQL Server, the new widget I am building. The cool thing about this case is that it uses 20 hot swap disk sleds, and they have a very neat little light pipe system to display the power and activity on each disk. The disk sleds plug in to a backplane, and on that backplane are a green power and blue data LED. There are two clear plastic light pipes along the side of the sled which pipes the light to the front so it can be seen. Really cool I thought. What this means to me is that for the first time I can actually see which disks are in use. The server "lights up like a Christmas tree" when stuff is actually written to disk. I am now able to actually compare the screen as I run processes, and watch the lights and I'm here to tell you, my disks are not the bottleneck. SQL Server will process for many seconds and then a burst of disk activity a half second long, then many seconds of crunching, then a half second of disk activity. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From kismert at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 14:36:36 2010 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:36:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club Message-ID: > From: John W. Colby > ... > C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server... > Or, come over to the DARK dark side, and do PHP on a WASP stack, or IIS7. PHP is easy to pick up, and version 5.3 has a lot of nice new features. Microsoft has officially blessed it -- they've even developed a native SQL Server library for it, and provides an Expression Web PHP extension, too. There's a whole galaxy of mid-level companies on Windows who need intranet/internet work. Plus, you can still kiss Princess Leia and pretend it's not incest ;) -Ken From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Jul 9 16:05:38 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:05:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6980FD8F0F0E4116A79A3FC1E12A70FB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Ken: It is not even dark-side if MS supports it: http://framework.zend.com/ Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Friday, July 09, 2010 12:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club > From: John W. Colby > ... > C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server... > Or, come over to the DARK dark side, and do PHP on a WASP stack, or IIS7. PHP is easy to pick up, and version 5.3 has a lot of nice new features. Microsoft has officially blessed it -- they've even developed a native SQL Server library for it, and provides an Expression Web PHP extension, too. There's a whole galaxy of mid-level companies on Windows who need intranet/internet work. Plus, you can still kiss Princess Leia and pretend it's not incest ;) -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Jul 9 16:08:46 2010 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:08:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C378FDE.9010303@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Sorry, sorry sorry couldn't resist. Lambert are you new to this list, because I have never seen boneheads accepted? Lambert you are the most bumptious.smug individual I have ever run into... I figure you are someone in the neighbourhood that all your neighbours avoid like the plague.. NOW you guys can kick me off the list. Thanks for the memories. Heenan, Lambert wrote: >Are we starting a flame war? Can't say I've ever seen your name on any posts before, and it appears that your expertise may not extent to enabling the spell checker on your email client. You also seem to have trouble understanding some of the highly detailed replies to users' questions that come up here all the time. > >Goodbye and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. :-) > >Lambert > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:02 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club > >Hey All >I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From lmrazek at lcm-res.com Fri Jul 9 16:11:25 2010 From: lmrazek at lcm-res.com (Lawrence Mrazek) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:11:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Query question, choose TOP from Group? In-Reply-To: <360A8B8ED4A24B188E77957CBC9E39D5@abpc> References: <762fa.1462a579.396231e3@aol.com> <0d2701cb1ea5$498bd8d0$dca38a70$@com> <360A8B8ED4A24B188E77957CBC9E39D5@abpc> Message-ID: <0ec701cb1fab$4b057a70$e1106f50$@com> Sigh, you're right, thanks Asger! Larry Mrazek ph. 314-496-1645 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 9:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Query question, choose TOP from Group? Larry, Don't see why you need to sort descending by PriceDate. Won't something like this do (since a max-aggregation on PriceDate should give you the most recent record)? SELECT Company, MaterialName, Max(PriceDate) AS MaxPriceDate FROM MyTable GROUP BY Company, MaterialName Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Lawrence Mrazek Sendt: 8. juli 2010 15:56 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: [AccessD] Query question, choose TOP from Group? Hi folks: I'd like to bind a listbox to use a query that returns the top record for each item in a group, where the group is sorted by date descending. Basically, I have: Company MaterialName PriceDate Basically, would like to group by Company, MaterialName, and sort desc by PriceDate ... I only want to see the most recent record for each Company/Material Name combination. Each Company / Material combo could have a different date, so I can't limit it that way. Can I do this with a query? Another method? Thanks in advance! Larry Mrazek ph. 314-496-1645 lmrazek at lcm-res.com http://www.lcm-res.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2959 - Release Date: 07/08/10 01:36:00 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 17:57:19 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:57:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4C378FDE.9010303@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4C3620B1.3050902@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C378FDE.9010303@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4C37A94F.1020207@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Now now, play nice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Sorry, sorry sorry couldn't resist. > Lambert are you new to this list, because I have never seen boneheads > accepted? > Lambert you are the most bumptious.smug individual I have ever run into... > I figure you are someone in the neighbourhood that all your neighbours > avoid like the plague.. > > NOW you guys can kick me off the list. > Thanks for the memories. > > > Heenan, Lambert wrote: > >> Are we starting a flame war? Can't say I've ever seen your name on any posts before, and it appears that your expertise may not extent to enabling the spell checker on your email client. You also seem to have trouble understanding some of the highly detailed replies to users' questions that come up here all the time. >> >> Goodbye and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. :-) >> >> Lambert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >> Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 3:02 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >> Hey All >> I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since 19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > From ramzcbu at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 22:32:30 2010 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 20:32:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Custom GUI In-Reply-To: References: <4C367731.2080605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: thanks for the inputs guys. let's just say I wanted to come up with a navigation system that is somewhat similar to Outlook's sidebar. I've been using the same GUI for my projects that I just wanted to try another way of interacting with the end-users, and I'm trying to find GUIs that other Access developers use in their projects just so I'll have new ideas for my own projects. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:29 AM, Drew Wutka wrote: > I don't know any sites out there, but I do know how to use treeviews. > I've posted samples on how to use a treeview in Access. (Though I have > never used one in 2007). Treeviews are very flexible/powerful, so the > question is what exactly do you want to do with it. Just using it as an > interface is a little too broad a scope for me to be of any help. To > say I want to display xxx in such a way ... etc. Then I can probably > help. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ramz . > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 11:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Custom GUI > > Thanks for the replies guys! > > Drew, I'm just looking into other ways of providing sleek-looking GUI > for > the custom Access projects I'm working on. Is there any website that you > know of that would show some samples (and possibly sample code as well) > on > different designs of GUI for Access? > > John, I'd love to know how to come up with a tree-view GUI in Access. > I'm > currently using Access 2007. > > -- Ramil > > > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:11 PM, jwcolby > wrote: > > > Ramil, > > > > I think it was Arthur that loved the treeview. And William. > > > > Hey guys, where are you. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or > hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 9 23:13:26 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:13:26 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: References: <4C371F1B.30403@nanaimo.ark.com> <4C372451.10100@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C37F366.1080503@colbyconsulting.com> JS, I can't make any recommendations other than pick a project that will get and keep you involved. What I have found is that unless you keep at it, you never get over the hump and fluent. I tried a couple of times but I was firmly rooted in Access. Then I got a client that needed some heavy duty SQL processing. When I tried to automate it using Access (I know VBA like the back of my hand) it just wasn't "enough". That provided me with "the project". As it happens I decided to go take a C# class at the community college. I did so more as a way to meet other people doing C# than because I needed (or liked) the classroom method of learning. I already knew more than I learned in the class but it did force me to keep a schedule, do specific C# things that I didn't necessarily need in my project, and I did meet a bunch of techies. I ended up taking a pair of semester classes and I don't regret that time spent. In fact I will probably enroll in the fall for the next thing... not sure what yet... again just to get out there and meet people. Being a sole proprietor, working in a home office can be isolating. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com js wrote: > Hello all! > > I have enjoyed hearing every one's idea on how this site has changed. I am > also new here and want to thank all of you for sharing your knowledge. I > have learned so much from you folks and want to thank you all. JC, I am > wanting to pick up C# also can you offer some advice on where to start, C# > sites, or books? What is the learning curve coming from VBA? > > Any advice would be appreciated THANKS! > > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 9:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> LOL. Do ya need the bed pan? It's coming by. >> >> C'mon over to the dark side and take up C# and SQL Server. I am not doing >> "Access like" projects >> yet but I am doing some pretty powerful data manipulation stuff with it. >> For sheer programming >> power, C# is the most powerful environment I have ever seen and it just >> keeps getting better. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Tony Septav wrote: >>> Hey All >>> After spending a restless night sitting up and hosing down the dog >>> (mini heat wave here, no air conditioning). I realized that what some of >>> you >>> have stated (some rather eloquently, others down right crudely(is that a >>> word?)) >>> is correct. I think I am turning into one of those "cranky old farts" >>> that we >>> used to point our fingers at when we were kids. As Jim stated "Times >>> Change", I guess it is time to try and teach the old dog new tricks. >>> Or.......the next time we meet I will be saying "Would you like fries >>> with that?". >>> >>> Sorry, I was wrong (flame off) . >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Jul 10 19:50:16 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:50:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Message-ID: Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Jul 11 18:39:55 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:39:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club In-Reply-To: <4c372789.6202e70a.2821.3993@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201007121449.o6CEn68I019451@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Yes.. " Access is an "approved" software package" if often what gets a project off the ground. Only once the solution become too big or critical do the 'powers that be' decide SQL Server is required for stability, speed and security. Of course I tell them that at the start, but hey, I don't mind. I get to build it twice and stay on twice as long ;) My current role is pretty good though. It is 100% Access work, but this place has their act together and have a good plan they are working too. Nice. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Friday, 9 July 2010 11:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Actually, I am in the middle of a contract that states I MUST use Access 2007. When the contract started I was supposed to use SQL Server 2005 as a BE. But because they couldn't get the IT department to approve a server the BE will also be Access 2007. So the entire contract is for Access. Talk is they are going to extend the contract for another year. I was also offered a permanent job as a programmer specifically for Access. Granted, this is for the government and agencies do have major problems getting anything approved. However, Access is an "approved" software package and as such does not need to get approval for its use. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 8:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club Hi Tony: The truth is that Access application have moved from being major a development system for large to small businesses to little more than a nitch product. All here that are working full-time, in the computer industry are now supporting dozens of different products and hardware and Access has been moved to little more than a power user tool... I do not think there is anyone here who makes their living from just from Access anymore and if they are, they are making plans to move their client's applications to .Net and ASP.Net. with a MS SQL BE. There are other DBA Lists which are reflecting those changes and have slowly becoming more active like VB list (all things .Net and Web-based), SQL list (all things SQL and database related) and the Tech list (all things new in the computer world and Web issues). Times change Tony and you as a programmer should know that better than anyone. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club My Friend You insult me. This is no longer a user group, no matter what you have to say. This was one of the most vibrant groups I have ever dealt with. A community willing to express their opions on every topic. It has gotten to be just the old boys, disussing topics of no relevance to ACCESS programmng. I think it is indicating a demise of the Access community. Gary Kjos wrote: >And most of us have kind of moved on from straight Access Development >like we did years ago. But we do still answer them when they are asked >most of the time. You might have to wait a day or two sometimes. > >I kind of do take exception to your attempt to put some guilt on list >members for not doing..... not sure what. > >I have a real job. I have a life. I give my time to the list as an >administrator. I answer the questions when I can. I'm not sure what >more you expect Tony. I think the number of new users of Access is >probably a lot less than it used to be, especially as Excel has had >it's limits raised over the most recent releases. Used to be that >people were forced to use Access for things when they hit the 65K row >limit in an Excel file. Now that bar is raised over a million rows so >the user community sticks with Excel for those things. > >Sorry you feel like we aren't living up to your expectations but we are >doing what we can. > > >GK > >On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > > >>Well toss us a question!!! >> >>Drew >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav >>Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2010 2:02 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] Just ANother Old Boys Club >> >>Hey All >>I have been on this list for more years than I can remember (since >>19930. It has now become an old boys list. Pretty pathethic, I don't >>see any respones to new questions, basically just chatter and respones >>from the old members (back and forth). Yes , you are going to being >>saying "If you don't like leave".. And probably I will. With the >>amount of knowledge available here it is a crime to waste it. Shane on you. >>-- >>AccessD mailing list >> >> > > > > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From prodevmg at yahoo.com Sun Jul 11 17:50:09 2010 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 15:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case Message-ID: <74562.73456.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Just curious, Is there a way to search or match a string that is just upper case or mixed case? I have a filed that has these two values and the customer actually wants to be able search for just one of the two. The two values are... 2010 ACTUALS 2010 Actuals From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Jul 11 12:37:49 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 10:37:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gradware? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Jul 12 10:01:37 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:01:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case In-Reply-To: <74562.73456.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <74562.73456.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C19200CC45E@houex1.kindermorgan.com> This article might help you http://support.microsoft.com/kb/304258 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 5:50 PM To: AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case Just curious, Is there a way to search or match a string that is just upper case or mixed case? I have a filed that has these two values and the customer actually wants to be able search for just one of the two. The two values are... 2010 ACTUALS 2010 Actuals -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jul 12 10:19:35 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:19:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005> Still $200 clams there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Gradware? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Jul 12 11:53:08 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 09:53:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap In-Reply-To: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005> References: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005> Message-ID: Doew the company have a demo version if this is only a month or so requirement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Still $200 clams there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Gradware? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jul 12 12:31:17 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:31:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap In-Reply-To: References: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005> Message-ID: <554B984E0AD246E488EE76E2762A8DC7@HAL9005> Yes. Ed sent me a link for a 21 day demo which might get him over the hump until we can get a street legal version. Tomorrow he and his GF are going camping for a few days so it'll be Monday before he makes a move. By then maybe my cousin who's a retired math prof at SDSU will be able to negotiate one at the bookstore. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Doew the company have a demo version if this is only a month or so requirement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Still $200 clams there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Gradware? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Mon Jul 12 13:00:49 2010 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:00:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap In-Reply-To: <554B984E0AD246E488EE76E2762A8DC7@HAL9005> References: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005> <554B984E0AD246E488EE76E2762A8DC7@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, They should have a mainframe version of SPSS or SAS that he could access, has he looked into that. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Yes. Ed sent me a link for a 21 day demo which might get him over the hump until we can get a street legal version. Tomorrow he and his GF are going camping for a few days so it'll be Monday before he makes a move. By then maybe my cousin who's a retired math prof at SDSU will be able to negotiate one at the bookstore. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Doew the company have a demo version if this is only a month or so requirement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Still $200 clams there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Gradware? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Jul 11 15:59:54 2010 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 22:59:54 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club - now featuring guitar Message-ID: Hi all Another sign is that you sometimes feel that _real_ music is not to be found at the pop channels - you miss Hendrix, Clapton, Gilmour, Beck, Page, Santana and all the other great guitarists - everything is computer generated stuff controlled by youngsters ... Well, there is hope. Speaking about mastering a guitar, listen (and view) how this young guy, Steffen Schackinger, brings new hope for you Stratocaster and Gibson fans - a real pleasure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX61Jlvd-Yw&feature=channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAnv66NDZ74&feature=channel Inspired a lot by Bob James I think but I wouldn't blame him for that. Enjoy! /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-07-2010 17:15 >>> Ya know you're a good ole boy if you remember... All the girls had ugly gym uniforms? From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Jul 12 13:11:59 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:11:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap In-Reply-To: References: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005><554B984E0AD246E488EE76E2762A8DC7@HAL9005> Message-ID: I don't think so. I'll suggest it. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 11:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Rocky, They should have a mainframe version of SPSS or SAS that he could access, has he looked into that. Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Yes. Ed sent me a link for a 21 day demo which might get him over the hump until we can get a street legal version. Tomorrow he and his GF are going camping for a few days so it'll be Monday before he makes a move. By then maybe my cousin who's a retired math prof at SDSU will be able to negotiate one at the bookstore. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Doew the company have a demo version if this is only a month or so requirement? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 8:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Still $200 clams there. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Gradware? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap Dear List(s): Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither of us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jul 12 15:36:41 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:36:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club - now featuring guitar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <708F9EE610764188B01B59B9456AA291@creativesystemdesigns.com> Great guitarist.:-) I think he needs a band and he is on his way. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 2:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club - now featuring guitar Hi all Another sign is that you sometimes feel that _real_ music is not to be found at the pop channels - you miss Hendrix, Clapton, Gilmour, Beck, Page, Santana and all the other great guitarists - everything is computer generated stuff controlled by youngsters ... Well, there is hope. Speaking about mastering a guitar, listen (and view) how this young guy, Steffen Schackinger, brings new hope for you Stratocaster and Gibson fans - a real pleasure: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX61Jlvd-Yw&feature=channel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAnv66NDZ74&feature=channel Inspired a lot by Bob James I think but I wouldn't blame him for that. Enjoy! /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-07-2010 17:15 >>> Ya know you're a good ole boy if you remember... All the girls had ugly gym uniforms? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pharold at cfl.rr.com Mon Jul 12 15:42:20 2010 From: pharold at cfl.rr.com (Perry Harold) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:42:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap References: <127D21D3C75E40D094F7DC6F99C42082@HAL9005> Message-ID: <78C2A7C7A06142F788118E2C5AC85083@ptiorl.local> That's a lot better than the $1000+ cost for commercial use. Perry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 11:19 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap > Still $200 clams there. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy > Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:38 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap > > Gradware? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 5:50 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'; List; 'Off Topic' > Subject: [AccessD] SPSS Needed Fast and Cheap > > Dear List(s): > > Does anyone know where to get SPSS fast and cheap? Max needs it for data > analysis on psych project. But I think the student version doesn't have > ANOVA. So I think he'll need the grown-up version. But frankly, neither > of > us can figure it out from what we can find out on the web. > > MTIA > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mikedorism at verizon.net Tue Jul 13 06:39:17 2010 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case In-Reply-To: <74562.73456.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <74562.73456.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I would strongly suggest that you can use UPPER to transform the contents of the field and the search request. Doris Manning -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 6:50 PM To: AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case Just curious, Is there a way to search or match a string that is just upper case or mixed case? I have a filed that has these two values and the customer actually wants to be able search for just one of the two. The two values are... 2010 ACTUALS 2010 Actuals -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Jul 13 08:16:50 2010 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case In-Reply-To: References: <74562.73456.qm@web110212.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <513153.57622.qm@web110207.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thanks. After futher speaking to the client, that is pretty much what we did is run an update query to make all the values upper case. ________________________________ From: Doris Manning To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 6:39:17 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case I would strongly suggest that you can use UPPER to transform the contents of the field and the search request. Doris Manning -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 6:50 PM To: AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Querying by Upper or Mixed Case Just curious, Is there a way to search or match a string that is just upper case or mixed case? I have a filed that has these two values and the customer actually wants to be able search for just one of the two. The two values are... 2010 ACTUALS 2010 Actuals ? ? ? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From brad.marks1 at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 11:47:15 2010 From: brad.marks1 at gmail.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:47:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Message-ID: We have a number of .VBS scripts that we use to initiate various modules in Access 2007 .ACCDB files. This works nicely. Now we would like to use a .VBS to initiate a .ACCDR. Is this possible? When we try this, we receive an error message stating that Microsoft Access cannot find the database. This seems like it should be really simple. We must be missing something. Thanks, Brad From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Jul 13 12:02:36 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:02:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <441D12A2D7614E7B881D94293F68E03D@murphy3234aaf1> Does Access exist on the machine? ACCDR just opens the file in runtime mode as I understand. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? We have a number of .VBS scripts that we use to initiate various modules in Access 2007 .ACCDB files. This works nicely. Now we would like to use a .VBS to initiate a .ACCDR. Is this possible? When we try this, we receive an error message stating that Microsoft Access cannot find the database. This seems like it should be really simple. We must be missing something. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Jul 13 13:02:17 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:02:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? References: <441D12A2D7614E7B881D94293F68E03D@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: Yes, Access lives on the machine. Here is what we did... Copied test.accdb to test.accdr (in the same folder) Changed one byte in the .VBS Script to point at test.accdr rather than test.accdb Everything works fine with the accdb file, but not so with the accdr file. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Does Access exist on the machine? ACCDR just opens the file in runtime mode as I understand. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? We have a number of .VBS scripts that we use to initiate various modules in Access 2007 .ACCDB files. This works nicely. Now we would like to use a .VBS to initiate a .ACCDR. Is this possible? When we try this, we receive an error message stating that Microsoft Access cannot find the database. This seems like it should be really simple. We must be missing something. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Jul 13 13:53:09 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:53:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? In-Reply-To: References: <441D12A2D7614E7B881D94293F68E03D@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <9FD3D25B9650434C975ED7D39EF399C0@murphy3234aaf1> Possibly you should change your script to use the command line constants to open the .accdb file in runtime mode. I have not done in 2007 but have done in earlier versions. Access 2007 continually amazes me with what doesn't work as it is supposed to. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Yes, Access lives on the machine. Here is what we did... Copied test.accdb to test.accdr (in the same folder) Changed one byte in the .VBS Script to point at test.accdr rather than test.accdb Everything works fine with the accdb file, but not so with the accdr file. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Does Access exist on the machine? ACCDR just opens the file in runtime mode as I understand. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? We have a number of .VBS scripts that we use to initiate various modules in Access 2007 .ACCDB files. This works nicely. Now we would like to use a .VBS to initiate a .ACCDR. Is this possible? When we try this, we receive an error message stating that Microsoft Access cannot find the database. This seems like it should be really simple. We must be missing something. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Jul 13 14:02:00 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:02:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? References: <441D12A2D7614E7B881D94293F68E03D@murphy3234aaf1> <9FD3D25B9650434C975ED7D39EF399C0@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: Below is the code in the VBS Script. Sorry, I should have posted this when I first posted the question. Brad '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ DIM accessApp set accessApp = createObject("Access.Application") accessApp.OpenCurrentDataBase("C:\Access_Test\Test.accdr") accessApp.Run "Sub_Name" 'Name of VBA Sub to initiate within the database accessApp.Quit set accessApp = nothing '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:53 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Possibly you should change your script to use the command line constants to open the .accdb file in runtime mode. I have not done in 2007 but have done in earlier versions. Access 2007 continually amazes me with what doesn't work as it is supposed to. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Yes, Access lives on the machine. Here is what we did... Copied test.accdb to test.accdr (in the same folder) Changed one byte in the .VBS Script to point at test.accdr rather than test.accdb Everything works fine with the accdb file, but not so with the accdr file. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? Does Access exist on the machine? ACCDR just opens the file in runtime mode as I understand. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Can a .VBS fire up a .ACCDR? We have a number of .VBS scripts that we use to initiate various modules in Access 2007 .ACCDB files. This works nicely. Now we would like to use a .VBS to initiate a .ACCDR. Is this possible? When we try this, we receive an error message stating that Microsoft Access cannot find the database. This seems like it should be really simple. We must be missing something. Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 13 15:35:33 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:35:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control Message-ID: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. Subversion could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do differencing etc. Whaddayathink? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 15:54:07 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:54:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? Charlotte On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. > > Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. ?Subversion > could be used to move that stuff into version control. ?Once in subversion, we might be able to do > differencing etc. > > Whaddayathink? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 13 18:21:42 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 19:21:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the objects in an access database to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into subversion. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Charlotte Foust wrote: > How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an > Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there > something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? > > Charlotte > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. >> >> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. Subversion >> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do >> differencing etc. >> >> Whaddayathink? >> >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Jul 13 18:32:10 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:32:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects rather than overwriting, or does it matter? Charlotte On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying a workaround. ?Max has written code that exports all the objects in an access database > to text files. ?It seems a short step to using that to get them into subversion. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Charlotte Foust wrote: >> How would you move items in an out of Access? ?Source Safe uses an >> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. ?Is there >> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. >>> >>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. ?Subversion >>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. ?Once in subversion, we might be able to do >>> differencing etc. >>> >>> Whaddayathink? >>> >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 13 21:39:19 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:39:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> > I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. I am hoping to gain differentials immediately. >Without a check in/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? Yes, unless Subversion can be automated from within Access, which I would guess would be possible. >I'm not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects rather than overwriting, or does it matter? I am not sure how, this is just an idea that popped into my head. I am currently faced with a set of FEs that I need to see the differentials of. That is what Subversion is all about after all. So the big picture is to check in two versions of the FE and then see what Subversion shows me for differentials. How??? No clue, but it is a matter of pride that having no clue has never stopped me before. ;) What I know is that we have this thing called EatBloat which neatly exports everything in a database to files. Well... it has some issues (number of items in a list control IIRC) but those can be worked out. What has to be done is figure out how to have subversion check those files in. Even better would be to have subversion executed from inside of Access to check those files in, though that is not an absolute requirement. Once EatBloat is run on two different versions, and each is checked in to subversion , differentials should be available. I use subversion from inside of Visual Studio, but I have never done so from the command line or from a right click menu for explorer. But apparently others in this forum have done so. They need to speak up. I have a manual for subversion that I need to start reading. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Charlotte Foust wrote: > I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a > checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to > be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not > familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects > rather than overwriting, or does it matter? > > Charlotte > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the objects in an access database >> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into subversion. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there >>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>> >>> Charlotte >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. >>>> >>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. Subversion >>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do >>>> differencing etc. >>>> >>>> Whaddayathink? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Jul 13 23:26:07 2010 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 21:26:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project Message-ID: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> I have an Excel spreadsheet with the following columns: Person_ID LNAME FNAME SEX STREET CITY STATE ZIP COUNTRY Father_ID Mother_ID Spouse_ID BirthDate BirthPlace MarriageDate MarriagePlace DeathDate DeathPlace NOTES MEMO I'm not concerned with turning date fields into proper dates because they aren't important to the grand scheme of things. And there is some info in some of the fields that don't fit the field descriptions. That's not important either. What needs doing by someone with knowledge on how to do it, is to link the ID's and make a report that will show all the person's data including their father/mother/spouse NAME instead of ID number. There are about 7800 records. It comes from a very very old dos genealogy program that is not capable of making a gedcom file (gedcom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedcom) I'm trying to help the lady preserve the data and she's not computer literate. At this point, it probably won't go into another genealogy program, I'll just make a pdf of the resulting report. I think I can get her to authorize $100 to take care of this. So, does anyone feel they can write a query and report to do what I need done? If so, I'll let you know off-list the location of the Excel file once I have the go-ahead from her for the money (unless you want to do it for free like I'm doing). BTW, I have Access2007 with which to open your mdb. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Jul 13 23:43:41 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:43:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> Message-ID: <201007140443.o6E4hWBd015510@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Kathryn. Just want to clarify. You want to load the Excel data in MS Access? Or just link the ID from Excel to Access? Or Using the ID in Access as a Key, Update all the additional data from Excel to Access using the ID? Not 100% clear on what you are after here, but if it is what I am thinking it should be easy and painless to do. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 2:26 PM To: 'dbAdvisors (AccessD)' Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project I have an Excel spreadsheet with the following columns: Person_ID LNAME FNAME SEX STREET CITY STATE ZIP COUNTRY Father_ID Mother_ID Spouse_ID BirthDate BirthPlace MarriageDate MarriagePlace DeathDate DeathPlace NOTES MEMO I'm not concerned with turning date fields into proper dates because they aren't important to the grand scheme of things. And there is some info in some of the fields that don't fit the field descriptions. That's not important either. What needs doing by someone with knowledge on how to do it, is to link the ID's and make a report that will show all the person's data including their father/mother/spouse NAME instead of ID number. There are about 7800 records. It comes from a very very old dos genealogy program that is not capable of making a gedcom file (gedcom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedcom) I'm trying to help the lady preserve the data and she's not computer literate. At this point, it probably won't go into another genealogy program, I'll just make a pdf of the resulting report. I think I can get her to authorize $100 to take care of this. So, does anyone feel they can write a query and report to do what I need done? If so, I'll let you know off-list the location of the Excel file once I have the go-ahead from her for the money (unless you want to do it for free like I'm doing). BTW, I have Access2007 with which to open your mdb. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 13 23:45:02 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:45:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C3D40CE.8000802@colbyconsulting.com> I managed to use Maxe's EatBloat to export a pretty complex FE to disk. I then set up a local SVN repository and checked in the files, through Windows Explorer. I then checked them back out. So all files have a green check mark. I am not really sure what to do next. I think I could just export another version of the database into this source controlled directory tree and then do a put (check in). That might store the diffs between the two versions. Or not. Logically I think I would need to delete all of the existing files before doing so because that would cause any objects deleted between versions to show up as deletions in version control. I know someone said that they use subversion from the command line / explorer. Feel free to speak up on this. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com jwcolby wrote: > > I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. > > I am hoping to gain differentials immediately. > > >Without a check in/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to be manually > exported and then imported to subversion, right? > > Yes, unless Subversion can be automated from within Access, which I would guess would be possible. > > >I'm not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects rather than > overwriting, or does it matter? > > I am not sure how, this is just an idea that popped into my head. > > I am currently faced with a set of FEs that I need to see the differentials of. That is what > Subversion is all about after all. So the big picture is to check in two versions of the FE and > then see what Subversion shows me for differentials. > > How??? No clue, but it is a matter of pride that having no clue has never stopped me before. ;) > > What I know is that we have this thing called EatBloat which neatly exports everything in a database > to files. Well... it has some issues (number of items in a list control IIRC) but those can be > worked out. > > What has to be done is figure out how to have subversion check those files in. Even better would be > to have subversion executed from inside of Access to check those files in, though that is not an > absolute requirement. > > Once EatBloat is run on two different versions, and each is checked in to subversion , differentials > should be available. > > I use subversion from inside of Visual Studio, but I have never done so from the command line or > from a right click menu for explorer. But apparently others in this forum have done so. They need > to speak up. > > I have a manual for subversion that I need to start reading. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Charlotte Foust wrote: >> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to >> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not >> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects >> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the objects in an access database >>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into subversion. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there >>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>> >>>> Charlotte >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. >>>>> >>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. Subversion >>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do >>>>> differencing etc. >>>>> >>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Jul 14 00:11:58 2010 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:11:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <201007140443.o6E4hWBd015510@databaseadvisors.com> References: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> <201007140443.o6E4hWBd015510@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net> Darryl Collins asked: > Just want to clarify. You want to load the Excel data in MS Access? > Or just link the ID from Excel to Access? > Or Using the ID in Access as a Key, Update all the additional data from > Excel to Access using the ID? > Not 100% clear on what you are after here, but if it is what I am > thinking it should be easy and painless to do. The end result would be a report that shows the following in alpha order: Bassett, Kathryn (LName, FName concatenated, then after name should be the sex designation with () around it) (next line contents of Street City State Zip Country, concatenated) Father: John Doe (name found by looking up the number in the Father_ID field in the Person_ID field, to get the name) Mother: Jane Smith (same scenario) Spouse: David Bassett (same scenario) Born: (contents of BirthDate and BirthPlace fields, concatenated) Married: (contents of MarriageDate and MarriagePlace fields, concatenated) Died: (contents of DeathDate and DeathPlace fields, concatenated) Notes: (contents) Memo: (contents) Next record Next record Next record until done. So, however it's done doesn't matter to me as long as I can get the result in a Word (or WordPerfect) file. From there, I'll add headers and other things I'll want to add before making the pdf. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Jul 14 00:25:59 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:25:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net> Message-ID: <201007140525.o6E5PnYv026578@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I would be willing to have a look at this for you. If the client does want to pay anything, can you please donate any loot to Access-D. You can email any more details off list if you want. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 3:12 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Possible small paid project Darryl Collins asked: > Just want to clarify. You want to load the Excel data in MS Access? > Or just link the ID from Excel to Access? > Or Using the ID in Access as a Key, Update all the additional data from > Excel to Access using the ID? > Not 100% clear on what you are after here, but if it is what I am > thinking it should be easy and painless to do. The end result would be a report that shows the following in alpha order: Bassett, Kathryn (LName, FName concatenated, then after name should be the sex designation with () around it) (next line contents of Street City State Zip Country, concatenated) Father: John Doe (name found by looking up the number in the Father_ID field in the Person_ID field, to get the name) Mother: Jane Smith (same scenario) Spouse: David Bassett (same scenario) Born: (contents of BirthDate and BirthPlace fields, concatenated) Married: (contents of MarriageDate and MarriagePlace fields, concatenated) Died: (contents of DeathDate and DeathPlace fields, concatenated) Notes: (contents) Memo: (contents) Next record Next record Next record until done. So, however it's done doesn't matter to me as long as I can get the result in a Word (or WordPerfect) file. From there, I'll add headers and other things I'll want to add before making the pdf. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jul 14 00:26:31 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:26:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net> References: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net>, <201007140443.o6E4hWBd015510@databaseadvisors.com>, <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net> Message-ID: <4C3D4A87.3435.197ED290@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sounds like a couple of minutes to import the spreadsheet into Access, maybe 5 minutes to build the query to return the required info, and another 5 to build a procedure that will psuh the data back out into a text file in the desired format. If you want to send me the Excel file, I'll have a crack at it. Don't worry about payment, it's not worth the hassle messing around with international transfers. -- Stuart On 13 Jul 2010 at 22:11, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Darryl Collins asked: > > Just want to clarify. You want to load the Excel data in MS Access? > > Or just link the ID from Excel to Access? > > Or Using the ID in Access as a Key, Update all the additional data from > > Excel to Access using the ID? > > Not 100% clear on what you are after here, but if it is what I am > > thinking it should be easy and painless to do. > > The end result would be a report that shows the following in alpha order: > > Bassett, Kathryn (LName, FName concatenated, then after name should be the > sex designation with () around it) > (next line contents of Street City State Zip Country, concatenated) > Father: John Doe (name found by looking up the number in the Father_ID field > in the Person_ID field, to get the name) > Mother: Jane Smith (same scenario) > Spouse: David Bassett (same scenario) > Born: (contents of BirthDate and BirthPlace fields, concatenated) > Married: (contents of MarriageDate and MarriagePlace fields, concatenated) > Died: (contents of DeathDate and DeathPlace fields, concatenated) > Notes: (contents) > Memo: (contents) > > Next record > > Next record > > Next record until done. > > So, however it's done doesn't matter to me as long as I can get the result > in a Word (or WordPerfect) file. From there, I'll add headers and other > things I'll want to add before making the pdf. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net?? > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 00:33:34 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:33:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> References: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> Message-ID: Kathryn, Is it correct to assume that the Father_ID, Mother_ID and Spouse_ID fields are self-joins to the Person_ID records for the related individuals? Are there records in the excel file that represent those individals? If so, it's pretty much a matter of importing the excel files into an Access database and creating the necessary joins, then querying out the data you want. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > I have an Excel spreadsheet with the following columns: > > Person_ID > LNAME > FNAME > SEX > STREET > CITY > STATE > ZIP > COUNTRY > Father_ID > Mother_ID > Spouse_ID > BirthDate > BirthPlace > MarriageDate > MarriagePlace > DeathDate > DeathPlace > NOTES > MEMO > > I'm not concerned with turning date fields into proper dates because they > aren't important to the grand scheme of things. And there is some info in > some of the fields that don't fit the field descriptions. That's not > important either. What needs doing by someone with knowledge on how to do > it, is to link the ID's and make a report that will show all the person's > data including their father/mother/spouse NAME instead of ID number. There > are about 7800 records. > > It comes from a very very old dos genealogy program that is not capable of > making a gedcom file > (gedcom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedcom) > > I'm trying to help the lady preserve the data and she's not computer > literate. At this point, it probably won't go into another genealogy > program, I'll just make a pdf of the resulting report. > > I think I can get her to authorize $100 to take care of this. So, does > anyone feel they can write a query and report to do what I need done? If so, > I'll let you know off-list the location of the Excel file once I have the > go-ahead from her for the money (unless you want to do it for free like I'm > doing). > > BTW, I have Access2007 with which to open your mdb. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Jul 14 00:33:22 2010 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:33:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <201007140525.o6E5PnYv026578@databaseadvisors.com> References: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net> <201007140525.o6E5PnYv026578@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <000301cb2316$1cf768a0$56e639e0$@net> Sending to both Stuart and Darryl off list. And yes, whatever she's willing to pay, I can donate to DBA - great idea! -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > I would be willing to have a look at this for you. If the client does > want to pay anything, can you please donate any loot to Access-D. > You can email any more details off list if you want. From darren at activebilling.com.au Wed Jul 14 01:14:47 2010 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:14:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3D40CE.8000802@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D40CE.8000802@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <007f01cb231b$dda2e340$98e8a9c0$@activebilling.com.au> Hi John Just on Subversion - and just as an FYI - There is a nice GUI (Right Click menus mostly) interface for SVN called Tortoise (You can get it from Tigris) Our nerds here at the office tell me that SVN has very powerful command line capabilities too - they actually use that more than the GUI (But they are nerds) So if you nut out the common SVN actions that call say...A Checkout, Update, Commit, Compare etc, you should have something useful. Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 2:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access source control I managed to use Maxe's EatBloat to export a pretty complex FE to disk. I then set up a local SVN repository and checked in the files, through Windows Explorer. I then checked them back out. So all files have a green check mark. I am not really sure what to do next. I think I could just export another version of the database into this source controlled directory tree and then do a put (check in). That might store the diffs between the two versions. Or not. Logically I think I would need to delete all of the existing files before doing so because that would cause any objects deleted between versions to show up as deletions in version control. I know someone said that they use subversion from the command line / explorer. Feel free to speak up on this. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com jwcolby wrote: > > I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. > > I am hoping to gain differentials immediately. > > >Without a check in/out from within Access, any changes to a database > will have to be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? > > Yes, unless Subversion can be automated from within Access, which I would guess would be possible. > > >I'm not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of > the objects rather than overwriting, or does it matter? > > I am not sure how, this is just an idea that popped into my head. > > I am currently faced with a set of FEs that I need to see the > differentials of. That is what Subversion is all about after all. So > the big picture is to check in two versions of the FE and then see what Subversion shows me for differentials. > > How??? No clue, but it is a matter of pride that having no clue has > never stopped me before. ;) > > What I know is that we have this thing called EatBloat which neatly > exports everything in a database to files. Well... it has some issues > (number of items in a list control IIRC) but those can be worked out. > > What has to be done is figure out how to have subversion check those > files in. Even better would be to have subversion executed from > inside of Access to check those files in, though that is not an absolute requirement. > > Once EatBloat is run on two different versions, and each is checked in > to subversion , differentials should be available. > > I use subversion from inside of Visual Studio, but I have never done > so from the command line or from a right click menu for explorer. But > apparently others in this forum have done so. They need to speak up. > > I have a manual for subversion that I need to start reading. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Charlotte Foust wrote: >> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have >> to be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm >> not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the >> objects rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the >>> objects in an access database to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into subversion. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is >>>> there something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>> >>>> Charlotte >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. >>>>> >>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>>>> directory structure. Subversion could be used to move that stuff >>>>> into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do differencing etc. >>>>> >>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Jul 14 01:39:44 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:39:44 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net> Message-ID: <201007140639.o6E6dX0j003689@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Kathryn I have whipped up a cheap and nasty result for you and emailed you offlist with a zip file. Some points to note: There were about 7 original records in the spreadsheet all with the KeyID of 1, I have incremented these to the end of the existing id list. One record had a KeyID of 0, I changed this entry to KeyID 1 There is plenty of dirty data in the spreadsheet, especially in the address fields where users have basically added any ol comment in there. You are going to need to clean it up. I would suggest adding another field(s) to the main data table in Access and move any non address data into the new note(s) fields. I would recommend putting in some logic to clean up any output data that is messy (such as legacy "()" in the output where where no data exists etc). This is not perfect, but it should be close enough for you to do something with. Hopefully my northern friend (Stuart) is having a lazy day and can spend a bit more time on it for you. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 3:12 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Possible small paid project Darryl Collins asked: > Just want to clarify. You want to load the Excel data in MS Access? > Or just link the ID from Excel to Access? > Or Using the ID in Access as a Key, Update all the additional data from > Excel to Access using the ID? > Not 100% clear on what you are after here, but if it is what I am > thinking it should be easy and painless to do. The end result would be a report that shows the following in alpha order: Bassett, Kathryn (LName, FName concatenated, then after name should be the sex designation with () around it) (next line contents of Street City State Zip Country, concatenated) Father: John Doe (name found by looking up the number in the Father_ID field in the Person_ID field, to get the name) Mother: Jane Smith (same scenario) Spouse: David Bassett (same scenario) Born: (contents of BirthDate and BirthPlace fields, concatenated) Married: (contents of MarriageDate and MarriagePlace fields, concatenated) Died: (contents of DeathDate and DeathPlace fields, concatenated) Notes: (contents) Memo: (contents) Next record Next record Next record until done. So, however it's done doesn't matter to me as long as I can get the result in a Word (or WordPerfect) file. From there, I'll add headers and other things I'll want to add before making the pdf. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Jul 14 01:53:28 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:53:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <201007140639.o6E6dX0j003689@databaseadvisors.com> References: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net>, <201007140639.o6E6dX0j003689@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4C3D5EE8.3865.19CE6D2B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Mine was even quicker and dirtier. :-) Between the two she should be able to come up with a decent final result. -- Stuart On 14 Jul 2010 at 16:39, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > Hi Kathryn > > I have whipped up a cheap and nasty result for you and emailed you offlist with a zip file. > > Some points to note: > > There were about 7 original records in the spreadsheet all with the KeyID of 1, I have incremented these to the end of the existing id list. > One record had a KeyID of 0, I changed this entry to KeyID 1 > > There is plenty of dirty data in the spreadsheet, especially in the address fields where users have basically added any ol comment in there. You are going to need to clean it up. I would suggest adding another field(s) to the main data table in Access and move any non address data into the new note(s) fields. > > I would recommend putting in some logic to clean up any output data that is messy (such as legacy "()" in the output where where no data exists etc). > > This is not perfect, but it should be close enough for you to do something with. Hopefully my northern friend (Stuart) is having a lazy day and can spend a bit more time on it for you. > > Cheers > Darryl. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett > Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 3:12 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Possible small paid project > > Darryl Collins asked: > > Just want to clarify. You want to load the Excel data in MS Access? > > Or just link the ID from Excel to Access? > > Or Using the ID in Access as a Key, Update all the additional data from > > Excel to Access using the ID? > > Not 100% clear on what you are after here, but if it is what I am > > thinking it should be easy and painless to do. > > The end result would be a report that shows the following in alpha order: > > Bassett, Kathryn (LName, FName concatenated, then after name should be the > sex designation with () around it) > (next line contents of Street City State Zip Country, concatenated) > Father: John Doe (name found by looking up the number in the Father_ID field > in the Person_ID field, to get the name) > Mother: Jane Smith (same scenario) > Spouse: David Bassett (same scenario) > Born: (contents of BirthDate and BirthPlace fields, concatenated) > Married: (contents of MarriageDate and MarriagePlace fields, concatenated) > Died: (contents of DeathDate and DeathPlace fields, concatenated) > Notes: (contents) > Memo: (contents) > > Next record > > Next record > > Next record until done. > > So, however it's done doesn't matter to me as long as I can get the result > in a Word (or WordPerfect) file. From there, I'll add headers and other > things I'll want to add before making the pdf. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net?? > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 14 07:23:06 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 08:23:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <007f01cb231b$dda2e340$98e8a9c0$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D40CE.8000802@colbyconsulting.com> <007f01cb231b$dda2e340$98e8a9c0$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4C3DAC2A.8010105@colbyconsulting.com> I am reading the manual now. You can automate SVN by using Tortoise to call those command line commands. When I use SVN in Visual Studio, the things I do the most is a update (get) and a commit (put), and I do them for all the files. An occasional case where I have to handle conflict resolution. Thus handling just those three commands would get an immediate system in place. The biggest thing would be to figure out how to to an update, where I am getting changes into my working FE. I would need to discover how to pull an item in. I assume I would just have to delete the item in the FE and then pull the text file in. It just doesn't SEEM to be that tough. Of course the devil is in the details. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi John > > Just on Subversion - and just as an FYI - There is a nice GUI (Right Click > menus mostly) interface for SVN called Tortoise (You can get it from Tigris) > Our nerds here at the office tell me that SVN has very powerful command line > capabilities too - they actually use that more than the GUI (But they are > nerds) > So if you nut out the common SVN actions that call say...A Checkout, Update, > Commit, Compare etc, you should have something useful. > Darren > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2010 2:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access source control > > I managed to use Maxe's EatBloat to export a pretty complex FE to disk. I > then set up a local SVN repository and checked in the files, through Windows > Explorer. I then checked them back out. So all files have a green check > mark. > > I am not really sure what to do next. I think I could just export another > version of the database into this source controlled directory tree and then > do a put (check in). That might store the diffs between the two versions. > Or not. > > Logically I think I would need to delete all of the existing files before > doing so because that would cause any objects deleted between versions to > show up as deletions in version control. > > I know someone said that they use subversion from the command line / > explorer. Feel free to speak up on this. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > jwcolby wrote: >> > I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. >> >> I am hoping to gain differentials immediately. >> >> >Without a check in/out from within Access, any changes to a database >> will have to be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? >> >> Yes, unless Subversion can be automated from within Access, which I would > guess would be possible. >> >I'm not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of >> the objects rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >> >> I am not sure how, this is just an idea that popped into my head. >> >> I am currently faced with a set of FEs that I need to see the >> differentials of. That is what Subversion is all about after all. So >> the big picture is to check in two versions of the FE and then see what > Subversion shows me for differentials. >> How??? No clue, but it is a matter of pride that having no clue has >> never stopped me before. ;) >> >> What I know is that we have this thing called EatBloat which neatly >> exports everything in a database to files. Well... it has some issues >> (number of items in a list control IIRC) but those can be worked out. >> >> What has to be done is figure out how to have subversion check those >> files in. Even better would be to have subversion executed from >> inside of Access to check those files in, though that is not an absolute > requirement. >> Once EatBloat is run on two different versions, and each is checked in >> to subversion , differentials should be available. >> >> I use subversion from inside of Visual Studio, but I have never done >> so from the command line or from a right click menu for explorer. But >> apparently others in this forum have done so. They need to speak up. >> >> I have a manual for subversion that I need to start reading. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have >>> to be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm >>> not familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the >>> objects rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>> >>> Charlotte >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the >>>> objects in an access database to text files. It seems a short step to > using that to get them into subversion. >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is >>>>> there something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>> >>>>> Charlotte >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to > do source control. >>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>>>>> directory structure. Subversion could be used to move that stuff >>>>>> into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do > differencing etc. >>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Jul 14 09:30:50 2010 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:30:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's about a couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time saved. HTH, Dan Charlotte Foust wrote: > I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a > checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to > be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not > familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects > rather than overwriting, or does it matter? > > Charlotte > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the objects in an access database >> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into subversion. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there >>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>> >>> Charlotte >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby wrote: >>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to do source control. >>>> >>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a directory structure. Subversion >>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in subversion, we might be able to do >>>> differencing etc. >>>> >>>> Whaddayathink? >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 14 09:37:08 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:37:08 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> Message-ID: <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> Yea, but I want source control. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Dan Waters wrote: > of.> > > FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's about a > couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time saved. > > HTH, > Dan > > > Charlotte Foust wrote: >> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to >> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not >> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects >> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the > objects in an access database >>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into > subversion. >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there >>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>> >>>> Charlotte >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access to > do source control. >>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a > directory structure. Subversion >>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in > subversion, we might be able to do >>>>> differencing etc. >>>>> >>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 14 10:59:07 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 11:59:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 runtime automating old office apps Message-ID: <4C3DDECB.4020005@colbyconsulting.com> Is it possible for the 2007 runtime to automate the older versions of office apps such as excel and word? I have a client who is still on Office 2000. They just see no reason to do the upgrade jig. OTOH, Access has had a lot of bug fixes and new functionality. If I could use 2007 to build a runtime of their Access application the client might be interested in that, however I do use automation, word merge mostly, but the potential exists to need excel automation. So will the 2007 runtime allow me to use automation on the 2K versions of the office apps on the user machine? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jedi at charm.net Wed Jul 14 11:19:18 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:19:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, SVN works the same way as VSS, ClearCase, PVCS, etc. You add your files or project the first time, this is the base line revision. This revision is annotated like 0.001 or something like that. Then you do a "Checkout" which should add a marker in SVN to indicate that those files have been checked-out. By checking out you are allowed to "Check-In" the files. This does not overwrite or destroy the previous file, just adds another copy to the revisioning process. This increases the revision by one like 0.002. Now you can do a differential between 0.001 and 0.002. BTW, differentials only work on text file, not binary. If you do a "Get" and you make changes you can not do a check-in, you must do a "Check-Out" first. So over time you will have many revisions of files and at some point you will want to "release" the files or project as Version 1.000. Eveything before version 1.000 would be your developement work for example. Now you have version control. Then you continue with your developement with revisions (check-out, make changes, check-in) until you do another release, for example Ver 1.100. Here is where you can do differentials between the various releases. Now SVN has (should) features that you would really want like header information in the files. This is important information like date, time, author, description, revision number, and possibly version number. SVN probrably uses some keywords to that you must place in the header the first time (the baseline) and SVN will automatically update these keywords everytime you do a check-in. The most important items in the header are the date and revision. So if you were to make a hard copy or have several soft copies hanging around of the source code you can easily identify the revision, otherwise it would be very difficult. Doing things your way of sucking out the objects each time I think would eliminate the header information thus rendering the check-out files difficult to track. So I hope you understand the process of revision and version. Your can be be done but I think it is a lot of work dealing with Access objects. Using SVN for .Net projects should be very easy to use and very beneficial. On another note, I would suggest that you come up with a plan for version control, or SCM (Software Configuration Management). This is for you and your customers. Mike... > Yea, but I want source control. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Dan Waters wrote: >> > differentials >> of.> >> >> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's about >> a >> couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time saved. >> >> HTH, >> Dan >> >> >> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to >>> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not >>> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects >>> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>> >>> Charlotte >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the >> objects in an access database >>>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into >> subversion. >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there >>>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>> >>>>> Charlotte >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby >>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access >>>>>> to >> do source control. >>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >> directory structure. Subversion >>>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in >> subversion, we might be able to do >>>>>> differencing etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Jul 14 11:30:05 2010 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 12:30:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 runtime automating old office apps In-Reply-To: <4C3DDECB.4020005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3DDECB.4020005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4404563BC8AA451C820BF14FFB477563@XPS> Only if your doing late binding. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 runtime automating old office apps Is it possible for the 2007 runtime to automate the older versions of office apps such as excel and word? I have a client who is still on Office 2000. They just see no reason to do the upgrade jig. OTOH, Access has had a lot of bug fixes and new functionality. If I could use 2007 to build a runtime of their Access application the client might be interested in that, however I do use automation, word merge mostly, but the potential exists to need excel automation. So will the 2007 runtime allow me to use automation on the 2K versions of the office apps on the user machine? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Jul 14 11:38:01 2010 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:38:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <4C3D5EE8.3865.19CE6D2B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <009d01cb2313$160b6f30$42224d90$@net>, <201007140639.o6E6dX0j003689@databaseadvisors.com> <4C3D5EE8.3865.19CE6D2B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <003601cb2372$ed6d7a90$c8486fb0$@net> Received the orig and corrected from you, and the one from Darryl but will have to wait several hours before I can look at them. Leaving in a few minutes for foot doctor, then off to hospital to visit my mother. Thanks to you both. Kathryn > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Possible small paid project > > Mine was even quicker and dirtier. :-) > > Between the two she should be able to come up with a decent final > result. > > -- > Stuart From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed Jul 14 12:13:57 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:13:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> References: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> Message-ID: Hello Kathryn, >From reading the other messages on AccessD I see that you have gotten your solution. What a value this list is. Please ignore my previous message. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kathryn Bassett Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:26 PM To: 'dbAdvisors (AccessD)' Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project I have an Excel spreadsheet with the following columns: Person_ID LNAME FNAME SEX STREET CITY STATE ZIP COUNTRY Father_ID Mother_ID Spouse_ID BirthDate BirthPlace MarriageDate MarriagePlace DeathDate DeathPlace NOTES MEMO I'm not concerned with turning date fields into proper dates because they aren't important to the grand scheme of things. And there is some info in some of the fields that don't fit the field descriptions. That's not important either. What needs doing by someone with knowledge on how to do it, is to link the ID's and make a report that will show all the person's data including their father/mother/spouse NAME instead of ID number. There are about 7800 records. It comes from a very very old dos genealogy program that is not capable of making a gedcom file (gedcom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gedcom) I'm trying to help the lady preserve the data and she's not computer literate. At this point, it probably won't go into another genealogy program, I'll just make a pdf of the resulting report. I think I can get her to authorize $100 to take care of this. So, does anyone feel they can write a query and report to do what I need done? If so, I'll let you know off-list the location of the Excel file once I have the go-ahead from her for the money (unless you want to do it for free like I'm doing). BTW, I have Access2007 with which to open your mdb. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 14 12:34:42 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:34:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C3DF532.5050805@colbyconsulting.com> Michael, I mostly understand all of that. I use SVN with Visual Studio here in my office. I have a programmer that comes in and works and I do C# coding. We both check out / in pretty much daily. I have had to reconcile differences a couple of times. I don't do anything fancy with it though. AFAICT SVN does not add anything into the file itself - author, date etc. Given that it could corrupt a file structure (word or excel) I doubt that it can do that. I think the header info is kept in the repository somewhere. We shall see. I exported a FE to text files and checked them in, then checked them back out. I then made a simple edit to the code behind form for one form and reexported / checked in that one form. Basically I did exactly that, export over the top of an existing text file. SVN tags files on disk with icons and the icon changed from a green check to a red ! until I checked the change in. Unfortunately I it appears that Tortoise doesn't use the same property to find the repository for the diff application because when i tried to use that widget it says it can't find the repository. Sigh. But the concept seems sound. Really the hardest part seems like it would be getting the file back in to the MDB. That is probably not difficult, it would just have to be deleted and then the text file sucked in and saved. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, SVN works the same way as VSS, ClearCase, PVCS, etc. You add your > files or project the first time, this is the base line revision. This > revision is annotated like 0.001 or something like that. > > Then you do a "Checkout" which should add a marker in SVN to indicate that > those files have been checked-out. By checking out you are allowed to > "Check-In" the files. This does not overwrite or destroy the previous > file, just adds another copy to the revisioning process. This increases > the revision by one like 0.002. Now you can do a differential between > 0.001 and 0.002. BTW, differentials only work on text file, not binary. > If you do a "Get" and you make changes you can not do a check-in, you must > do a "Check-Out" first. So over time you will have many revisions of > files and at some point you will want to "release" the files or project as > Version 1.000. Eveything before version 1.000 would be your developement > work for example. Now you have version control. > > Then you continue with your developement with revisions (check-out, make > changes, check-in) until you do another release, for example Ver 1.100. > Here is where you can do differentials between the various releases. > > Now SVN has (should) features that you would really want like header > information in the files. This is important information like date, time, > author, description, revision number, and possibly version number. SVN > probrably uses some keywords to that you must place in the header the > first time (the baseline) and SVN will automatically update these keywords > everytime you do a check-in. The most important items in the header are > the date and revision. So if you were to make a hard copy or have several > soft copies hanging around of the source code you can easily identify the > revision, otherwise it would be very difficult. Doing things your way of > sucking out the objects each time I think would eliminate the header > information thus rendering the check-out files difficult to track. > > So I hope you understand the process of revision and version. Your can be > be done but I think it is a lot of work dealing with Access objects. > Using SVN for .Net projects should be very easy to use and very > beneficial. > > On another note, I would suggest that you come up with a plan for version > control, or SCM (Software Configuration Management). This is for you and > your customers. > > Mike... > >> Yea, but I want source control. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Dan Waters wrote: >>> >> differentials >>> of.> >>> >>> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's about >>> a >>> couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time saved. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Dan >>> >>> >>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >>>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have to >>>> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not >>>> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects >>>> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>>> >>>> Charlotte >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby >>> wrote: >>>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the >>> objects in an access database >>>>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into >>> subversion. >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is there >>>>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>>> >>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby >>>>>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access >>>>>>> to >>> do source control. >>>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>> directory structure. Subversion >>>>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in >>> subversion, we might be able to do >>>>>>> differencing etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 14 12:36:10 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 13:36:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 runtime automating old office apps In-Reply-To: <4404563BC8AA451C820BF14FFB477563@XPS> References: <4C3DDECB.4020005@colbyconsulting.com> <4404563BC8AA451C820BF14FFB477563@XPS> Message-ID: <4C3DF58A.1080803@colbyconsulting.com> I can do late binding. Mostly I use compiler directives to bracket my code to turn on / off late binding anyway. I use early binding but I cannot say for certain which office version will be used so I turn on Late binding when done. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Dettman wrote: > Only if your doing late binding. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 11:59 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 runtime automating old office apps > > Is it possible for the 2007 runtime to automate the older versions of office > apps such as excel and > word? > > I have a client who is still on Office 2000. They just see no reason to do > the upgrade jig. OTOH, > Access has had a lot of bug fixes and new functionality. If I could use > 2007 to build a runtime of > their Access application the client might be interested in that, however I > do use automation, word > merge mostly, but the potential exists to need excel automation. > > So will the 2007 runtime allow me to use automation on the 2K versions of > the office apps on the > user machine? > From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Jul 14 20:12:46 2010 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:12:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Possible small paid project In-Reply-To: References: <009001cb230c$b050b4d0$10f21e70$@net> Message-ID: <007a01cb23ba$d61990c0$824cb240$@net> Doug Murphy said: > >From reading the other messages on AccessD I see that you have gotten your > solution. What a value this list is. Please ignore my previous message. Yes, and it was actually a good thing having two solutions. Stuart's will be easier to use for making my report, but Darryl's gives me a better idea of how it was all put together. Thanks again to both of you for your help, and for the other offers. I'll let you all know when I get the money from her to make the donation to DBA. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From bgoss711 at ameritech.net Wed Jul 14 23:41:29 2010 From: bgoss711 at ameritech.net (Bud Goss) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:41:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditional Data Named Argument Error Message-ID: <665764.93063.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am?attempting to generate a fairly complex .xml file with Access 2003 ? The code listed below is from a Microsoft support article as an example of the ExportXLM method AdditionalData Object for use with the Northwind database ? Problem is that it will not compile - gives a Named Argument Not Found on line: objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ( Probably an?typo error on above line objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order? Details"?gives same error) ? This same question/problem was posted to MSDN a while back but - I could find any posted.answer. ? Can anyone tell me how to fix this error? ? ? ?Private Sub ExportRelTables() ?? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as ?? ' a number of related database to an XML file. ?? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. ?? Dim objAD As AdditionalData ?? ' Create the AdditionalData object. ?? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData ?? ' Add the related tables to the object. ?? With objAD ????? .Add "Order Details" ????? objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ????? .Add "Customers" ????? .Add "Shippers" ????? .Add "Employees" ????? .Add "Products" ????? objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" ????? objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ ???????? "Product Details Details" ????? .Add "Suppliers" ????? .Add "Categories" ?? End With ?? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ ?????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ ?????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD End Sub From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Jul 15 00:05:54 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:05:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditional Data Named Argument Error In-Reply-To: <665764.93063.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201007150505.o6F55j0e030574@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I might be off target here, but MZ Tools will generate an XML export. Would that work for you? Regards Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bud Goss Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2010 2:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditional Data Named Argument Error I am?attempting to generate a fairly complex .xml file with Access 2003 ? The code listed below is from a Microsoft support article as an example of the ExportXLM method AdditionalData Object for use with the Northwind database ? Problem is that it will not compile - gives a Named Argument Not Found on line: objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ( Probably an?typo error on above line objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order? Details"?gives same error) ? This same question/problem was posted to MSDN a while back but - I could find any posted.answer. ? Can anyone tell me how to fix this error? ? ? ?Private Sub ExportRelTables() ?? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as ?? ' a number of related database to an XML file. ?? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. ?? Dim objAD As AdditionalData ?? ' Create the AdditionalData object. ?? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData ?? ' Add the related tables to the object. ?? With objAD ????? .Add "Order Details" ????? objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ????? .Add "Customers" ????? .Add "Shippers" ????? .Add "Employees" ????? .Add "Products" ????? objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" ????? objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ ???????? "Product Details Details" ????? .Add "Suppliers" ????? .Add "Categories" ?? End With ?? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ ?????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ ?????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD End Sub -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From tinanfields at torchlake.com Thu Jul 15 07:44:13 2010 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 08:44:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club - now featuring guitar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3F029D.9020409@torchlake.com> Oh my, that is nice! There's some real artistry there. T Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi all > > Another sign is that you sometimes feel that _real_ music is not to be found at the pop channels - you miss Hendrix, Clapton, Gilmour, Beck, Page, Santana and all the other great guitarists - everything is computer generated stuff controlled by youngsters ... > > Well, there is hope. Speaking about mastering a guitar, listen (and view) how this young guy, Steffen Schackinger, brings new hope for you Stratocaster and Gibson fans - a real pleasure: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX61Jlvd-Yw&feature=channel > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAnv66NDZ74&feature=channel > > Inspired a lot by Bob James I think but I wouldn't blame him for that. > Enjoy! > > /gustav > > > >>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-07-2010 17:15 >>> >>>> > Ya know you're a good ole boy if you remember... > > All the girls had ugly gym uniforms? > > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 15 08:08:37 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:08:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Just Another Old Boys Club - now featuring guitar In-Reply-To: <4C3F029D.9020409@torchlake.com> References: <4C3F029D.9020409@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <4C3F0855.7090408@colbyconsulting.com> I particularly liked the one with him and the fiddle player. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Tina Norris Fields wrote: > Oh my, that is nice! There's some real artistry there. > T > > Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi all >> >> Another sign is that you sometimes feel that _real_ music is not to be found at the pop channels - you miss Hendrix, Clapton, Gilmour, Beck, Page, Santana and all the other great guitarists - everything is computer generated stuff controlled by youngsters ... >> >> Well, there is hope. Speaking about mastering a guitar, listen (and view) how this young guy, Steffen Schackinger, brings new hope for you Stratocaster and Gibson fans - a real pleasure: >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX61Jlvd-Yw&feature=channel >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAnv66NDZ74&feature=channel >> >> Inspired a lot by Bob James I think but I wouldn't blame him for that. >> Enjoy! >> >> /gustav >> >> >> >>>>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 09-07-2010 17:15 >>> >>>>> >> Ya know you're a good ole boy if you remember... >> >> All the girls had ugly gym uniforms? >> >> >> >> From bgoss711 at ameritech.net Thu Jul 15 11:21:05 2010 From: bgoss711 at ameritech.net (Bud Goss) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error Message-ID: <18322.97356.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tannks for the reply Darryl. ? I may have to go that route or use some other non Access tool. ? But?it would be better if I could use standard Access VBA code. My application requirements?has a number of related tables. The code shown below would seem to have a high proability of being a good? fit - if it would work. ? Bud ? I might be off target here, but MZ Tools will generate an XML export.? Would that work for you? Regards Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bud Goss Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2010 2:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditional Data Named Argument Error I am?attempting to generate a fairly complex .xml file with Access 2003 ? The code listed below is from a Microsoft support article as an example of the ExportXLM method AdditionalData Object for use with the Northwind database ? Problem is that it will not compile - gives a Named Argument Not Found on line: objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ( Probably an?typo error on above line objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order? Details"?gives same error) ? This same question/problem was posted to MSDN a while back but - I could find any posted.answer. ? Can anyone tell me how to fix this error? ? ? ?Private Sub ExportRelTables() ?? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as ?? ' a number of related database to an XML file. ?? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. ?? Dim objAD As AdditionalData ?? ' Create the AdditionalData object. ?? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData ?? ' Add the related tables to the object. ?? With objAD ????? .Add "Order Details" ????? objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ????? .Add "Customers" ????? .Add "Shippers" ????? .Add "Employees" ????? .Add "Products" ????? objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" ????? objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ ???????? "Product Details Details" ????? .Add "Suppliers" ????? .Add "Categories" ?? End With ?? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ ?????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ ?????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD End Sub From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 11:47:19 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:47:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error In-Reply-To: <18322.97356.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <18322.97356.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Just a swag, but notice the differences between your Order Details lines .Add "Order Details" > objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" > and this: .Add "Products" > objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" > objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ > "Product Details Details" It looks to me like the code is adding an element to the xml that is dependent on the initial element. Do you actually have a field in the data called "Order Details"? If so, then the "Order Details Details" is assigned the doubled name to distinguish it from its parent element. Since you're getting a "named argument not found" error, I would suspect that the item Order Details doesn't actuall exist. Is there any more information in the error message? Charlotte On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Bud Goss wrote: > Tannks for the reply Darryl. > > I may have to go that route or use some other non Access tool. > > But?it would be better if I could use standard Access VBA code. My application requirements?has a number of related tables. The code shown below would seem to have a high proability of being a good? fit - if it would work. > > Bud > > > I might be off target here, but MZ Tools will generate an XML export.? Would that work for you? > > Regards > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bud Goss > Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2010 2:41 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditional Data Named Argument Error > > I am?attempting to generate a fairly complex .xml file with Access 2003 > > The code listed below is from a Microsoft support article as an example of the ExportXLM method AdditionalData Object for use with the Northwind database > > Problem is that it will not compile - gives a Named Argument Not Found on line: > objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" > > ( Probably an?typo error on above line > objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order? Details"?gives same error) > > This same question/problem was posted to MSDN a while back but - I could find any posted.answer. > > Can anyone tell me how to fix this error? > > > ?Private Sub ExportRelTables() > ?? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as > ?? ' a number of related database to an XML file. > ?? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. > ?? Dim objAD As AdditionalData > ?? ' Create the AdditionalData object. > ?? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData > ?? ' Add the related tables to the object. > ?? With objAD > ????? .Add "Order Details" > ????? objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" > ????? .Add "Customers" > ????? .Add "Shippers" > ????? .Add "Employees" > ????? .Add "Products" > ????? objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" > ????? objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ > ???????? "Product Details Details" > ????? .Add "Suppliers" > ????? .Add "Categories" > ?? End With > ?? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ > ?????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ > ?????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD > End Sub > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jedi at charm.net Thu Jul 15 12:33:25 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:33:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3DF532.5050805@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C3DF532.5050805@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4139.24.35.23.165.1279215205.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Yes you are correct, SVN does not implicitely add anything. What needs to be done is you must add a header in the form of comments that use the keywords or artifacts I beleive, then SVN will use the keywords with the appropriate information. Mike... > Michael, > > I mostly understand all of that. I use SVN with Visual Studio here in my > office. I have a > programmer that comes in and works and I do C# coding. We both check out > / in pretty much daily. I > have had to reconcile differences a couple of times. I don't do anything > fancy with it though. > > AFAICT SVN does not add anything into the file itself - author, date etc. > Given that it could > corrupt a file structure (word or excel) I doubt that it can do that. I > think the header info is > kept in the repository somewhere. We shall see. > > I exported a FE to text files and checked them in, then checked them back > out. I then made a simple > edit to the code behind form for one form and reexported / checked in that > one form. Basically I > did exactly that, export over the top of an existing text file. > > SVN tags files on disk with icons and the icon changed from a green check > to a red ! until I checked > the change in. Unfortunately I it appears that Tortoise doesn't use the > same property to find the > repository for the diff application because when i tried to use that > widget it says it can't find > the repository. Sigh. > > But the concept seems sound. Really the hardest part seems like it would > be getting the file back > in to the MDB. That is probably not difficult, it would just have to be > deleted and then the text > file sucked in and saved. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> John, SVN works the same way as VSS, ClearCase, PVCS, etc. You add your >> files or project the first time, this is the base line revision. This >> revision is annotated like 0.001 or something like that. >> >> Then you do a "Checkout" which should add a marker in SVN to indicate >> that >> those files have been checked-out. By checking out you are allowed to >> "Check-In" the files. This does not overwrite or destroy the previous >> file, just adds another copy to the revisioning process. This increases >> the revision by one like 0.002. Now you can do a differential between >> 0.001 and 0.002. BTW, differentials only work on text file, not binary. >> If you do a "Get" and you make changes you can not do a check-in, you >> must >> do a "Check-Out" first. So over time you will have many revisions of >> files and at some point you will want to "release" the files or project >> as >> Version 1.000. Eveything before version 1.000 would be your >> developement >> work for example. Now you have version control. >> >> Then you continue with your developement with revisions (check-out, make >> changes, check-in) until you do another release, for example Ver 1.100. >> Here is where you can do differentials between the various releases. >> >> Now SVN has (should) features that you would really want like header >> information in the files. This is important information like date, >> time, >> author, description, revision number, and possibly version number. SVN >> probrably uses some keywords to that you must place in the header the >> first time (the baseline) and SVN will automatically update these >> keywords >> everytime you do a check-in. The most important items in the header are >> the date and revision. So if you were to make a hard copy or have >> several >> soft copies hanging around of the source code you can easily identify >> the >> revision, otherwise it would be very difficult. Doing things your way >> of >> sucking out the objects each time I think would eliminate the header >> information thus rendering the check-out files difficult to track. >> >> So I hope you understand the process of revision and version. Your can >> be >> be done but I think it is a lot of work dealing with Access objects. >> Using SVN for .Net projects should be very easy to use and very >> beneficial. >> >> On another note, I would suggest that you come up with a plan for >> version >> control, or SCM (Software Configuration Management). This is for you >> and >> your customers. >> >> Mike... >> >>> Yea, but I want source control. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>> >>> differentials >>>> of.> >>>> >>>> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's >>>> about >>>> a >>>> couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time saved. >>>> >>>> HTH, >>>> Dan >>>> >>>> >>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >>>>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have >>>>> to >>>>> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not >>>>> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects >>>>> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>>>> >>>>> Charlotte >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the >>>> objects in an access database >>>>>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into >>>> subversion. >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby >>>>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access >>>>>>>> to >>>> do source control. >>>>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>>> directory structure. Subversion >>>>>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in >>>> subversion, we might be able to do >>>>>>>> differencing etc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 15 14:01:18 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:01:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4139.24.35.23.165.1279215205.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C3DF532.5050805@colbyconsulting.com> <4139.24.35.23.165.1279215205.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C3F5AFE.9000704@colbyconsulting.com> >What needs to be done is you must add a header in the form of comments that use the keywords or artifacts I believe, then SVN will use the keywords with the appropriate information. Ohhhh. I haven't found anything that says that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > Yes you are correct, SVN does not implicitely add anything. What needs to > be done is you must add a header in the form of comments that use the > keywords or artifacts I beleive, then SVN will use the keywords with the > appropriate information. > > Mike... > >> Michael, >> >> I mostly understand all of that. I use SVN with Visual Studio here in my >> office. I have a >> programmer that comes in and works and I do C# coding. We both check out >> / in pretty much daily. I >> have had to reconcile differences a couple of times. I don't do anything >> fancy with it though. >> >> AFAICT SVN does not add anything into the file itself - author, date etc. >> Given that it could >> corrupt a file structure (word or excel) I doubt that it can do that. I >> think the header info is >> kept in the repository somewhere. We shall see. >> >> I exported a FE to text files and checked them in, then checked them back >> out. I then made a simple >> edit to the code behind form for one form and reexported / checked in that >> one form. Basically I >> did exactly that, export over the top of an existing text file. >> >> SVN tags files on disk with icons and the icon changed from a green check >> to a red ! until I checked >> the change in. Unfortunately I it appears that Tortoise doesn't use the >> same property to find the >> repository for the diff application because when i tried to use that >> widget it says it can't find >> the repository. Sigh. >> >> But the concept seems sound. Really the hardest part seems like it would >> be getting the file back >> in to the MDB. That is probably not difficult, it would just have to be >> deleted and then the text >> file sucked in and saved. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, SVN works the same way as VSS, ClearCase, PVCS, etc. You add your >>> files or project the first time, this is the base line revision. This >>> revision is annotated like 0.001 or something like that. >>> >>> Then you do a "Checkout" which should add a marker in SVN to indicate >>> that >>> those files have been checked-out. By checking out you are allowed to >>> "Check-In" the files. This does not overwrite or destroy the previous >>> file, just adds another copy to the revisioning process. This increases >>> the revision by one like 0.002. Now you can do a differential between >>> 0.001 and 0.002. BTW, differentials only work on text file, not binary. >>> If you do a "Get" and you make changes you can not do a check-in, you >>> must >>> do a "Check-Out" first. So over time you will have many revisions of >>> files and at some point you will want to "release" the files or project >>> as >>> Version 1.000. Eveything before version 1.000 would be your >>> developement >>> work for example. Now you have version control. >>> >>> Then you continue with your developement with revisions (check-out, make >>> changes, check-in) until you do another release, for example Ver 1.100. >>> Here is where you can do differentials between the various releases. >>> >>> Now SVN has (should) features that you would really want like header >>> information in the files. This is important information like date, >>> time, >>> author, description, revision number, and possibly version number. SVN >>> probrably uses some keywords to that you must place in the header the >>> first time (the baseline) and SVN will automatically update these >>> keywords >>> everytime you do a check-in. The most important items in the header are >>> the date and revision. So if you were to make a hard copy or have >>> several >>> soft copies hanging around of the source code you can easily identify >>> the >>> revision, otherwise it would be very difficult. Doing things your way >>> of >>> sucking out the objects each time I think would eliminate the header >>> information thus rendering the check-out files difficult to track. >>> >>> So I hope you understand the process of revision and version. Your can >>> be >>> be done but I think it is a lot of work dealing with Access objects. >>> Using SVN for .Net projects should be very easy to use and very >>> beneficial. >>> >>> On another note, I would suggest that you come up with a plan for >>> version >>> control, or SCM (Software Configuration Management). This is for you >>> and >>> your customers. >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> Yea, but I want source control. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>>> >>>> differentials >>>>> of.> >>>>> >>>>> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's >>>>> about >>>>> a >>>>> couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time saved. >>>>> >>>>> HTH, >>>>> Dan >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without a >>>>>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have >>>>>> to >>>>>> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm not >>>>>> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the objects >>>>>> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>>>>> >>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all the >>>>> objects in an access database >>>>>>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them into >>>>> subversion. >>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses an >>>>>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby >>>>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and Access >>>>>>>>> to >>>>> do source control. >>>>>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>>>> directory structure. Subversion >>>>>>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in >>>>> subversion, we might be able to do >>>>>>>>> differencing etc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From bgoss711 at ameritech.net Thu Jul 15 14:15:22 2010 From: bgoss711 at ameritech.net (Bud Goss) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:15:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error Message-ID: <20459.4524.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the reply Charlotte ? The database I am testing with is the Northwind database ? It has an ?Orders? table, an ?Orders Detail? table, and a ?Products? Table. It does mnot have a ?Products Details? table. ? Also there is not a field named ?Orders Details? ? The ?Order ID? field of the ?Orders? and ?Orders Detail? tables relate these tables ? I simplified the code (see below) and tried a number of options to try to get a good compile (see below) but still get the Argument Not Found Error on all my compile attempts ? no additional error information is provided. ? ? **** Charlotte?s reply starts Just a swag, but notice the differences between your Order Details lines ???.Add "Order Details" >? ? ???objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" > and this: ? ? ? .Add "Products" >? ? ???objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" >? ? ???objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ >? ? ? ? ? "Product Details Details" It looks to me like the code is adding an element to the xml that is dependent on the initial element.? Do you actually have a field in the data called "Order Details"?? If so, then the "Order Details Details" is assigned the doubled name to distinguish it from its parent element.? Since you're getting a "named argument not found" error, I would suspect that the item Order Details doesn't actually exist.? Is there any more information in the error message? **** Charlotte?s reply ends ? ? > simplified code for additional testing ? Private Sub ExportRelTables() ? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as ? ' a number of related databases to an XML file. ? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. ? ? Dim objAD As AdditionalData ? ? ' Create the AdditionalData object. ? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData ? ? ' Add the related tables to the object. ? With objAD ???? .Add "Order Details" ???? ???? '##### Any of these lines these lines will cause the Named Argument Not Found Error ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details" ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details Details" ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details" ???? '##### ????? ???? .Add "Customers" ??? ? End With ? ? ' Export the Orders table along with the addtional data. ? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ ????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ ????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD End Sub From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 15:14:32 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 13:14:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error In-Reply-To: <20459.4524.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20459.4524.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: With the orders details stuff commented out, does the Products, etc., code compile? Charlote On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Bud Goss wrote: > > Thanks for the reply Charlotte > > The database I am testing with is the Northwind database > > It has an ?Orders? table, an ?Orders Detail? table, and a ?Products? > Table. It does mnot have a ?Products Details? table. > > Also there is not a field named ?Orders Details? > > The ?Order ID? field of the ?Orders? and ?Orders Detail? tables > relate these tables > > I simplified the code (see below) and tried a number of options to try to get a good compile (see below) but still get the Argument Not Found Error on all my compile attempts ? no additional error information is provided. > > > **** Charlotte?s reply starts > Just a swag, but notice the differences between your Order Details lines > > ???.Add "Order Details" >>? ? ???objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" >> > and this: > > ? ? ? .Add "Products" >>? ? ???objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" >>? ? ???objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ >>? ? ? ? ? "Product Details Details" > > It looks to me like the code is adding an element to the xml that is > dependent on the initial element.? Do you actually have a field in the data called "Order Details"?? If so, then the "Order Details Details" > is assigned the doubled name to distinguish it from its parent > element.? Since you're getting a "named argument not found" error, I > would suspect that the item Order Details doesn't actually exist.? Is there any more information in the error message? > **** Charlotte?s reply ends > > >> simplified code for additional testing > > Private Sub ExportRelTables() > ? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as > ? ' a number of related databases to an XML file. > ? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. > > ? Dim objAD As AdditionalData > > ? ' Create the AdditionalData object. > ? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData > > ? ' Add the related tables to the object. > ? With objAD > ???? .Add "Order Details" > > ???? '##### Any of these lines these lines will cause the Named Argument Not Found Error > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details" > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details Details" > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details" > ???? '##### > > ???? .Add "Customers" > > ? End With > > ? ' Export the Orders table along with the addtional data. > ? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ > ????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ > ????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD > End Sub > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bgoss711 at ameritech.net Thu Jul 15 17:14:18 2010 From: bgoss711 at ameritech.net (Bud Goss) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error Message-ID: <734777.41220.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes - the code shown below compiles and when run in the Northwind database generates an xml file with the customers and orders tables.? But I need to get related files in an xml?hierarchy such as?: ? customer ?? order ????? order line ? order ????? order line customer ?? order ????? order line ? order ????? order line etc ? So this really does not resolve my problem? Code that works I am going out for a while?and will check later today or tomorrow?-Thanks again for reply- Public Sub Test001() ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as ? ' a number of related databases to an XML file. ? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. ? Dim objAD As AdditionalData ? ' Create the AdditionalData object. ? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData ? ' Add the related tables to the object. ? With objAD ???? .Add "Order Details" ???? ???? '##### Any of these lines these lines will cause the Named Argument Not Found Error ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details" ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details Details" ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details" ???? '##### ????? ???? .Add "Customers" ??? ? End With ? ' Export the Orders table along with the addtional data. ? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ ????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ ????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD ????? MsgBox "done xxx" End Sub From brad.marks1 at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 17:15:39 2010 From: brad.marks1 at gmail.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:15:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) to Excel Message-ID: We have an Access 2007 report that has "dynamic filters" which enable the end-users to trim down the amount of data on the report. This is done with code like this... Reports.Report001.Filter = var_Where Reports.Report001.FilterOn = True This works nicely. Now there is a need to export this report and other similar reports to Excel. We have experimented with "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command but the results are not consistent. Sometimes only the headings are exported, in other cases more of the report is exported. >From what we have read, the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command is a better method to use. The catch is that this command can export from either a table or query, but not from a report. We have experimented with this approach and it works well, except we have a problem when a user is using the dynamic filter on the report. For example, we might have 500 records returned by the underlying query. If we use the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command we will see 500 rows in the generated Excel spreadsheet. This is correct if no dynamic report filters are used. Let's say that a user employs one of the dynamic report filters and the resulting report now has 100 records shown on the report. We would then like to only have 100 records on the generated Excel table if the user chooses to push the "Export to Excel" button that we have provided on the report. We must be missing something. Is there an easy solution? Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Jul 15 17:49:27 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:49:27 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) to Excel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201007152249.o6FMnOuV015845@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Brad, in my experience transfer spreadsheet can prove troublesome. I prefer to use ADO recordsets. I have made up a couple of examples here. These are Excel based and driven, but it is easy to move the code to Access and drive the whole show from there instead. <> maybe that will help a bit. Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, 16 July 2010 8:16 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) to Excel We have an Access 2007 report that has "dynamic filters" which enable the end-users to trim down the amount of data on the report. This is done with code like this... Reports.Report001.Filter = var_Where Reports.Report001.FilterOn = True This works nicely. Now there is a need to export this report and other similar reports to Excel. We have experimented with "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command but the results are not consistent. Sometimes only the headings are exported, in other cases more of the report is exported. >From what we have read, the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command is a better method to use. The catch is that this command can export from either a table or query, but not from a report. We have experimented with this approach and it works well, except we have a problem when a user is using the dynamic filter on the report. For example, we might have 500 records returned by the underlying query. If we use the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command we will see 500 rows in the generated Excel spreadsheet. This is correct if no dynamic report filters are used. Let's say that a user employs one of the dynamic report filters and the resulting report now has 100 records shown on the report. We would then like to only have 100 records on the generated Excel table if the user chooses to push the "Export to Excel" button that we have provided on the report. We must be missing something. Is there an easy solution? Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 18:21:56 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:21:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) to Excel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brad: I use this technique all the time. Here is the unexpurgated code for the proc I use; it creates a dummy query and builds the SQL up from the original query and the 'Where' string that is passed to it. I've included the option to save it to the user's desktop or not. Let me know if you have any questions. Doug Public Sub ExportQueryToExcel(QueryName As String, Optional WhereString, Optional toDeskTop As Boolean = True) 'note: the sql string in a query appears to be terminated with a ; then a space then a c/r Dim qName As String, fname As String Dim qd As QueryDef Dim sqlStr As String Dim OrdBy As Integer Dim Where As Integer Dim MyWhereString As String Dim MyOrderByString As String Dim myPath As String 'add general query front end to sqlstring Set qd = CurrentDb.QueryDefs(QueryName) sqlStr = qd.SQL If Not IsMissing(WhereString) Then If WhereString <> "" Then 'need to add this where string to existing if any 'parse off existing order by/group by (for summary queries) and where OrdBy = InStr(sqlStr, "ORDER BY") If OrdBy = 0 Then OrdBy = InStr(sqlStr, "GROUP BY") If OrdBy <> 0 Then MyOrderByString = Right(sqlStr, Len(sqlStr) - OrdBy + 1) 'includes trailing ; sqlStr = Left(sqlStr, OrdBy - 1) End If Where = InStr(sqlStr, "WHERE") If Where = 0 Then If OrdBy = 0 Then sqlStr = Left(sqlStr, Len(sqlStr) - 3) & " WHERE " & WhereString & ";" Else sqlStr = sqlStr & " WHERE " & WhereString & " " & MyOrderByString End If Else If OrdBy = 0 Then sqlStr = Left(sqlStr, Len(sqlStr) - 3) & " AND (" & WhereString & " );" Else sqlStr = sqlStr & " AND (" & WhereString & " ) " & MyOrderByString End If End If End If End If On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.QueryDefs.Delete ("zqTempQueryForExcelExport") On Error GoTo 0 Set qd = CurrentDb.CreateQueryDef("zqTempQueryForExcelExport", sqlStr) myPath = "" If toDeskTop Then myPath = getDesktopPath If myPath = "" Then myPath = GetPathFromName(CurrentDb.Name) End If fname = adhCommonFileOpenSave(, "Excel files|*.xls", , , QueryName & Format(Date, "_mm_dd_yy"), , myPath, , False) If fname = "" Then MsgBox "No file selected - please try again!" Exit Sub End If DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, acSpreadsheetTypeExcel9, "zqTempQueryForExcelExport", fname End Sub Function getDesktopPath() As String ' Options For special folders ' AllUsersDesktop ' AllUsersStartMenu ' AllUsersPrograms ' AllUsersStartup ' Desktop ' Favorites ' Fonts ' MyDocuments ' NetHood ' PrintHood ' Programs ' Recent ' SendTo ' StartMenu ' Startup ' Templates Dim objWSHShell As Object Dim strSpecialFolderPath getDesktopPath = "" On Error GoTo ErrorHandler ' Create a shell object Set objWSHShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell") ' Find out the path to the passed special folder, ' just change the "Desktop" for one of the other options getDesktopPath = objWSHShell.SpecialFolders("Desktop") ' Clean up Set objWSHShell = Nothing ErrorHandler: ' MsgBox "Error finding " & strSpecialFolder, vbCritical + vbOKOnly, "Error" End Function On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > We have an Access 2007 report that has "dynamic filters" which enable the > end-users to trim down the amount of data on the report. This is done with > code like this... > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 21:26:56 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:26:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error In-Reply-To: <734777.41220.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <734777.41220.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In that case, your best bet would be to create a query with the data in it and export the query results to xml. I suspect you're going to have to include the key fields used in the joins in your export. I must admit, I've not tried this from Access. I've only written .Net code to export data to xml and the process is a bit different. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Bud Goss wrote: > > Yes - the code shown below compiles and when run in the Northwind database generates an xml file with the customers and orders tables. > But I need to get related files in an xml?hierarchy such as?: > > customer > ?? order > ????? order line > ? order > ????? order line > customer > ?? order > ????? order line > ? order > ????? order line etc > > So this really does not resolve my problem? Code that works > I am going out for a while?and will check later today or tomorrow?-Thanks again for reply- > > Public Sub Test001() > ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as > ? ' a number of related databases to an XML file. > ? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. > ? Dim objAD As AdditionalData > ? ' Create the AdditionalData object. > ? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData > ? ' Add the related tables to the object. > ? With objAD > ???? .Add "Order Details" > > ???? '##### Any of these lines these lines will cause the Named Argument Not Found Error > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details" > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details Details" > ???? 'objAD(Item:="Order ID").Add "Order Details" > ???? '##### > > ???? .Add "Customers" > > ? End With > ? ' Export the Orders table along with the addtional data. > ? Application.ExportXML acExportTable, "Orders", _ > ????? "C:\Orders.xml", "C:\OrdersSchema.xsd", _ > ????? "C:\OrdersStyle.xsl", AdditionalData:=objAD > ????? MsgBox "done xxx" > End Sub > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From adtp at airtelmail.in Fri Jul 16 04:01:56 2010 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:31:56 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) toExcel References: Message-ID: <7D63E49A897B48BEA404D64FDBF9B510@personal4a8ede> Brad, My sample db named Reports_AccessToExcelAndWord might also be of interest to you. It is in access 2000 file format and is available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Best wishes, A.D. Tejpal ------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Marks To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 03:45 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) toExcel We have an Access 2007 report that has "dynamic filters" which enable the end-users to trim down the amount of data on the report. This is done with code like this... Reports.Report001.Filter = var_Where Reports.Report001.FilterOn = True This works nicely. Now there is a need to export this report and other similar reports to Excel. We have experimented with "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command but the results are not consistent. Sometimes only the headings are exported, in other cases more of the report is exported. >From what we have read, the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command is a better method to use. The catch is that this command can export from either a table or query, but not from a report. We have experimented with this approach and it works well, except we have a problem when a user is using the dynamic filter on the report. For example, we might have 500 records returned by the underlying query. If we use the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command we will see 500 rows in the generated Excel spreadsheet. This is correct if no dynamic report filters are used. Let's say that a user employs one of the dynamic report filters and the resulting report now has 100 records shown on the report. We would then like to only have 100 records on the generated Excel table if the user chooses to push the "Export to Excel" button that we have provided on the report. We must be missing something. Is there an easy solution? Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad From jengross at gte.net Fri Jul 16 06:58:34 2010 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 04:58:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint Message-ID: <007301cb24de$383e7cb0$6501a8c0@Schroeder> Happy Friday everyone, I've read the archives on SharePoint and am wondering if anyone has any success stories and could offer guidance on relational databases and Access 07 forms and reports using SharePoint. I am supporting a small department now and it is the perfect Access app opportunity. They are pulling together data from multiple sources plus we need to capture some data points that are not being captured elsewhere. They are convinced that SharePoint is the way to go, but from all I can see SharePoint 'databases' are all flat files and I can't put a whole lot of logic and limitations around data validation. My real analysis work will definitely be done in Access or SQL. What's the point of using SharePoint if I am supporting 12 people, can drop the BE on our share drive and FEs on each user's desktop and we're off. Is it worth mounting this SharePoint learning curve if I can build them a whiz bang system in Access? I think not. Any arguments in favor of SharePoint? Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Fri Jul 16 07:41:27 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 05:41:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters)toExcel In-Reply-To: <7D63E49A897B48BEA404D64FDBF9B510@personal4a8ede> References: <7D63E49A897B48BEA404D64FDBF9B510@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: Brad: I would use an append query to append the filtered records to a temp export table from inside the report (maybe Open event?) that would incorporate the dynamic report filters. You could build it in SQL, add the 'WHERE' clauses and use db.Execute to run it. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Marks To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 03:45 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) toExcel We have an Access 2007 report that has "dynamic filters" which enable the end-users to trim down the amount of data on the report. This is done with code like this... Reports.Report001.Filter = var_Where Reports.Report001.FilterOn = True This works nicely. Now there is a need to export this report and other similar reports to Excel. We have experimented with "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command but the results are not consistent. Sometimes only the headings are exported, in other cases more of the report is exported. >From what we have read, the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command is a better method to use. The catch is that this command can export from either a table or query, but not from a report. We have experimented with this approach and it works well, except we have a problem when a user is using the dynamic filter on the report. For example, we might have 500 records returned by the underlying query. If we use the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command we will see 500 rows in the generated Excel spreadsheet. This is correct if no dynamic report filters are used. Let's say that a user employs one of the dynamic report filters and the resulting report now has 100 records shown on the report. We would then like to only have 100 records on the generated Excel table if the user chooses to push the "Export to Excel" button that we have provided on the report. We must be missing something. Is there an easy solution? Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 08:02:13 2010 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 08:02:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint In-Reply-To: <007301cb24de$383e7cb0$6501a8c0@Schroeder> References: <007301cb24de$383e7cb0$6501a8c0@Schroeder> Message-ID: <4c405858.017c8d0a.2c52.ffff9f87@mx.google.com> In my previous employ, I was a consultant on SharePoint. SharePoint uses SQL Server as its data store. With some tweaking you can tap into SQL Server and use all of its features. HOWEVER, SharePoint is meant to be web based and as such is labor intensive IF you choose to go against its intended purpose. I found that forms and reports can be difficult to create. We had one person spend 2 months on a form that could have been done in 2 hours in Access. Access and SharePoint do have some good features if used together. SQL Server report services could be used for the reports. In one project, I used SharePoint as the back end (tables only) for Access - worked great! The Access front end was placed in a document library and the users could download the latest copy and start accessing data immediately from their desktop. I didn't have to worry about recreating shortcuts or anything else. Security is another issue. The best method I found was to use Active Directory instead of SQL Server. If a user is logged into their work computer and network, then SharePoint would automatically authenticate them when opening sites. You mentioned the department you work for is small. Look at the costs involved deploying SharePoint vs Access. Analyze software and hardware costs, and estimate the amount of time to deploy. You said it's a small department supporting 12 people, I'd say if the database is to be used by less than 20 use access. Especially if everyone is on the LAN. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Gross Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:59 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint Happy Friday everyone, I've read the archives on SharePoint and am wondering if anyone has any success stories and could offer guidance on relational databases and Access 07 forms and reports using SharePoint. I am supporting a small department now and it is the perfect Access app opportunity. They are pulling together data from multiple sources plus we need to capture some data points that are not being captured elsewhere. They are convinced that SharePoint is the way to go, but from all I can see SharePoint 'databases' are all flat files and I can't put a whole lot of logic and limitations around data validation. My real analysis work will definitely be done in Access or SQL. What's the point of using SharePoint if I am supporting 12 people, can drop the BE on our share drive and FEs on each user's desktop and we're off. Is it worth mounting this SharePoint learning curve if I can build them a whiz bang system in Access? I think not. Any arguments in favor of SharePoint? Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jengross at gte.net Fri Jul 16 08:36:11 2010 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 06:36:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint In-Reply-To: <4c405858.017c8d0a.2c52.ffff9f87@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <009101cb24eb$db1545b0$6501a8c0@Schroeder> Thanks Jim. You are confirming my thoughts. They already have a SharePoint site/licensing. That's not a problem. I've tried to port the Access database (through Access interface) as a document into the library, but don't have permission. Maybe I just need to put the file up there as a document like I would put a Word document up there. Do you have any good sources, books or online for learning SharePoint from a database developer perspective? Like the lists they have already created - if they are SQL tables, where the heck are they and can I get at them through the back end? I've been dropping them into Excel and then importing to Access to run queries. Thanks, Jennifer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint In my previous employ, I was a consultant on SharePoint. SharePoint uses SQL Server as its data store. With some tweaking you can tap into SQL Server and use all of its features. HOWEVER, SharePoint is meant to be web based and as such is labor intensive IF you choose to go against its intended purpose. I found that forms and reports can be difficult to create. We had one person spend 2 months on a form that could have been done in 2 hours in Access. Access and SharePoint do have some good features if used together. SQL Server report services could be used for the reports. In one project, I used SharePoint as the back end (tables only) for Access - worked great! The Access front end was placed in a document library and the users could download the latest copy and start accessing data immediately from their desktop. I didn't have to worry about recreating shortcuts or anything else. Security is another issue. The best method I found was to use Active Directory instead of SQL Server. If a user is logged into their work computer and network, then SharePoint would automatically authenticate them when opening sites. You mentioned the department you work for is small. Look at the costs involved deploying SharePoint vs Access. Analyze software and hardware costs, and estimate the amount of time to deploy. You said it's a small department supporting 12 people, I'd say if the database is to be used by less than 20 use access. Especially if everyone is on the LAN. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Gross Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:59 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint Happy Friday everyone, I've read the archives on SharePoint and am wondering if anyone has any success stories and could offer guidance on relational databases and Access 07 forms and reports using SharePoint. I am supporting a small department now and it is the perfect Access app opportunity. They are pulling together data from multiple sources plus we need to capture some data points that are not being captured elsewhere. They are convinced that SharePoint is the way to go, but from all I can see SharePoint 'databases' are all flat files and I can't put a whole lot of logic and limitations around data validation. My real analysis work will definitely be done in Access or SQL. What's the point of using SharePoint if I am supporting 12 people, can drop the BE on our share drive and FEs on each user's desktop and we're off. Is it worth mounting this SharePoint learning curve if I can build them a whiz bang system in Access? I think not. Any arguments in favor of SharePoint? Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 09:52:55 2010 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:52:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint In-Reply-To: <009101cb24eb$db1545b0$6501a8c0@Schroeder> References: <4c405858.017c8d0a.2c52.ffff9f87@mx.google.com> <009101cb24eb$db1545b0$6501a8c0@Schroeder> Message-ID: <4c40724a.17b48c0a.782c.ffffafca@mx.google.com> To be able to do everything in SharePoint, you must have full rights to EACH list and/or site you are trying to manipulate. Putting the Access file in a document library works. A few things you need to keep in mind: 1) Users should download it to their machines for speed, 2) if it's not split data updates are not going to happen, 3) if it is split and SP lists are the data store then once downloaded each user must have full access to each list used as a table. I don't have any good sources, books, etc. from a database developer perspective. What I've learned is mostly through trial and error... mostly error. In our group we had three people that constantly tried new things. The best source we found is just using Google. Be specific and typically someone already either has tried it or has thought about how to do it. All the lists are in SQL but they are stored in such a fashion there is no way of getting to them. What you could do, is create external SQL tables in another database, then reference the instance of the database through the form you recreate in SharePoint. If your exporting from SharePoint into Excel, you could instead reference the SP list in Access and then run queries. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Gross Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 8:36 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint Thanks Jim. You are confirming my thoughts. They already have a SharePoint site/licensing. That's not a problem. I've tried to port the Access database (through Access interface) as a document into the library, but don't have permission. Maybe I just need to put the file up there as a document like I would put a Word document up there. Do you have any good sources, books or online for learning SharePoint from a database developer perspective? Like the lists they have already created - if they are SQL tables, where the heck are they and can I get at them through the back end? I've been dropping them into Excel and then importing to Access to run queries. Thanks, Jennifer -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:02 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint In my previous employ, I was a consultant on SharePoint. SharePoint uses SQL Server as its data store. With some tweaking you can tap into SQL Server and use all of its features. HOWEVER, SharePoint is meant to be web based and as such is labor intensive IF you choose to go against its intended purpose. I found that forms and reports can be difficult to create. We had one person spend 2 months on a form that could have been done in 2 hours in Access. Access and SharePoint do have some good features if used together. SQL Server report services could be used for the reports. In one project, I used SharePoint as the back end (tables only) for Access - worked great! The Access front end was placed in a document library and the users could download the latest copy and start accessing data immediately from their desktop. I didn't have to worry about recreating shortcuts or anything else. Security is another issue. The best method I found was to use Active Directory instead of SQL Server. If a user is logged into their work computer and network, then SharePoint would automatically authenticate them when opening sites. You mentioned the department you work for is small. Look at the costs involved deploying SharePoint vs Access. Analyze software and hardware costs, and estimate the amount of time to deploy. You said it's a small department supporting 12 people, I'd say if the database is to be used by less than 20 use access. Especially if everyone is on the LAN. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jennifer Gross Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 6:59 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] Access-->>SharePoint Happy Friday everyone, I've read the archives on SharePoint and am wondering if anyone has any success stories and could offer guidance on relational databases and Access 07 forms and reports using SharePoint. I am supporting a small department now and it is the perfect Access app opportunity. They are pulling together data from multiple sources plus we need to capture some data points that are not being captured elsewhere. They are convinced that SharePoint is the way to go, but from all I can see SharePoint 'databases' are all flat files and I can't put a whole lot of logic and limitations around data validation. My real analysis work will definitely be done in Access or SQL. What's the point of using SharePoint if I am supporting 12 people, can drop the BE on our share drive and FEs on each user's desktop and we're off. Is it worth mounting this SharePoint learning curve if I can build them a whiz bang system in Access? I think not. Any arguments in favor of SharePoint? Thanks in advance, Jennifer Gross -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jedi at charm.net Fri Jul 16 10:53:44 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:53:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4C3F5AFE.9000704@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C3DF532.5050805@colbyconsulting.com> <4139.24.35.23.165.1279215205.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C3F5AFE.9000704@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4099.24.35.23.165.1279295624.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John here is an example from another SCM that we were using where I made a program so users can use the same format to populate code files with the header information: ###################################################################### # Start Header Info ###################################################################### #$Workfile: $ #$Revision: $ #$Author: $ #$Date: $ #$Modtime: $ ###################################################################### # End Header Info ###################################################################### 0000:://Hello World--This is test of the Emergency Broadcast System!! 0001:://PROC WAIT3000 0002:://\\ 0003::LOOP:: 0004::WAIT 3000 and this is the result ###################################################################### # Start Header Info ###################################################################### #$Workfile: WAIT300.SCP $ #$Revision: 1.0 $ #$Author: mbahr $ #$Date: Mar 24 2006 14:34:56 $ #$Modtime: Mar 24 2006 13:23:52 $ ###################################################################### # End Header Info ###################################################################### 0000:://Hello World--This is test of the Emergency Broadcast System!! 0001:://PROC WAIT3000 0002:://\\ 0003::LOOP:: 0004::WAIT 3000 in this example the keywords are encased in dollar-signs and get modified everytime the file is checked-in. Now you have traceability with files either doing a GET or Check-out. If you have not found yet then it is buried somewhere. Mike... > >What needs to be done is you must add a header in the form of comments > that use the keywords or > artifacts I believe, then SVN will use the keywords with the appropriate > information. > > Ohhhh. I haven't found anything that says that. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> Yes you are correct, SVN does not implicitely add anything. What needs >> to >> be done is you must add a header in the form of comments that use the >> keywords or artifacts I beleive, then SVN will use the keywords with the >> appropriate information. >> >> Mike... >> >>> Michael, >>> >>> I mostly understand all of that. I use SVN with Visual Studio here in >>> my >>> office. I have a >>> programmer that comes in and works and I do C# coding. We both check >>> out >>> / in pretty much daily. I >>> have had to reconcile differences a couple of times. I don't do >>> anything >>> fancy with it though. >>> >>> AFAICT SVN does not add anything into the file itself - author, date >>> etc. >>> Given that it could >>> corrupt a file structure (word or excel) I doubt that it can do that. >>> I >>> think the header info is >>> kept in the repository somewhere. We shall see. >>> >>> I exported a FE to text files and checked them in, then checked them >>> back >>> out. I then made a simple >>> edit to the code behind form for one form and reexported / checked in >>> that >>> one form. Basically I >>> did exactly that, export over the top of an existing text file. >>> >>> SVN tags files on disk with icons and the icon changed from a green >>> check >>> to a red ! until I checked >>> the change in. Unfortunately I it appears that Tortoise doesn't use >>> the >>> same property to find the >>> repository for the diff application because when i tried to use that >>> widget it says it can't find >>> the repository. Sigh. >>> >>> But the concept seems sound. Really the hardest part seems like it >>> would >>> be getting the file back >>> in to the MDB. That is probably not difficult, it would just have to >>> be >>> deleted and then the text >>> file sucked in and saved. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>> John, SVN works the same way as VSS, ClearCase, PVCS, etc. You add >>>> your >>>> files or project the first time, this is the base line revision. This >>>> revision is annotated like 0.001 or something like that. >>>> >>>> Then you do a "Checkout" which should add a marker in SVN to indicate >>>> that >>>> those files have been checked-out. By checking out you are allowed to >>>> "Check-In" the files. This does not overwrite or destroy the previous >>>> file, just adds another copy to the revisioning process. This >>>> increases >>>> the revision by one like 0.002. Now you can do a differential between >>>> 0.001 and 0.002. BTW, differentials only work on text file, not >>>> binary. >>>> If you do a "Get" and you make changes you can not do a check-in, you >>>> must >>>> do a "Check-Out" first. So over time you will have many revisions of >>>> files and at some point you will want to "release" the files or >>>> project >>>> as >>>> Version 1.000. Eveything before version 1.000 would be your >>>> developement >>>> work for example. Now you have version control. >>>> >>>> Then you continue with your developement with revisions (check-out, >>>> make >>>> changes, check-in) until you do another release, for example Ver >>>> 1.100. >>>> Here is where you can do differentials between the various releases. >>>> >>>> Now SVN has (should) features that you would really want like header >>>> information in the files. This is important information like date, >>>> time, >>>> author, description, revision number, and possibly version number. >>>> SVN >>>> probrably uses some keywords to that you must place in the header the >>>> first time (the baseline) and SVN will automatically update these >>>> keywords >>>> everytime you do a check-in. The most important items in the header >>>> are >>>> the date and revision. So if you were to make a hard copy or have >>>> several >>>> soft copies hanging around of the source code you can easily identify >>>> the >>>> revision, otherwise it would be very difficult. Doing things your way >>>> of >>>> sucking out the objects each time I think would eliminate the header >>>> information thus rendering the check-out files difficult to track. >>>> >>>> So I hope you understand the process of revision and version. Your >>>> can >>>> be >>>> be done but I think it is a lot of work dealing with Access objects. >>>> Using SVN for .Net projects should be very easy to use and very >>>> beneficial. >>>> >>>> On another note, I would suggest that you come up with a plan for >>>> version >>>> control, or SCM (Software Configuration Management). This is for you >>>> and >>>> your customers. >>>> >>>> Mike... >>>> >>>>> Yea, but I want source control. >>>>> >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> differentials >>>>>> of.> >>>>>> >>>>>> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's >>>>>> about >>>>>> a >>>>>> couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time >>>>>> saved. >>>>>> >>>>>> HTH, >>>>>> Dan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the >>>>>>> objects >>>>>>> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby >>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all >>>>>>>> the >>>>>> objects in an access database >>>>>>>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them >>>>>>>> into >>>>>> subversion. >>>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses >>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is >>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and >>>>>>>>>> Access >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>> do source control. >>>>>>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>>>>> directory structure. Subversion >>>>>>>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in >>>>>> subversion, we might be able to do >>>>>>>>>> differencing etc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 16 12:12:56 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:12:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access source control In-Reply-To: <4099.24.35.23.165.1279295624.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C3CCE15.6090200@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3CF506.5020203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C3D2357.9080008@colbyconsulting.com> <27628E21061B4217900E7FFBC5B9D5D4@utc.com> <4C3DCB94.1040804@colbyconsulting.com> <2492.24.35.23.165.1279124358.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C3DF532.5050805@colbyconsulting.com> <4139.24.35.23.165.1279215205.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C3F5AFE.9000704@colbyconsulting.com> <4099.24.35.23.165.1279295624.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C409318.8020300@colbyconsulting.com> Michael, Very cool and I want to use this. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John here is an example from another SCM that we were using where I made a > program so users can use the same format to populate code files with the > header information: > > ###################################################################### > # Start Header Info > ###################################################################### > #$Workfile: $ > #$Revision: $ > #$Author: $ > #$Date: $ > #$Modtime: $ > ###################################################################### > # End Header Info > ###################################################################### > 0000:://Hello World--This is test of the Emergency Broadcast System!! > 0001:://PROC WAIT3000 > 0002:://\\ > 0003::LOOP:: > 0004::WAIT 3000 > > and this is the result > > ###################################################################### > # Start Header Info > ###################################################################### > #$Workfile: WAIT300.SCP $ > #$Revision: 1.0 $ > #$Author: mbahr $ > #$Date: Mar 24 2006 14:34:56 $ > #$Modtime: Mar 24 2006 13:23:52 $ > ###################################################################### > # End Header Info > ###################################################################### > 0000:://Hello World--This is test of the Emergency Broadcast System!! > 0001:://PROC WAIT3000 > 0002:://\\ > 0003::LOOP:: > 0004::WAIT 3000 > > in this example the keywords are encased in dollar-signs and get modified > everytime the file is checked-in. Now you have traceability with files > either doing a GET or Check-out. > > If you have not found yet then it is buried somewhere. > > Mike... > >> >What needs to be done is you must add a header in the form of comments >> that use the keywords or >> artifacts I believe, then SVN will use the keywords with the appropriate >> information. >> >> Ohhhh. I haven't found anything that says that. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> Yes you are correct, SVN does not implicitely add anything. What needs >>> to >>> be done is you must add a header in the form of comments that use the >>> keywords or artifacts I beleive, then SVN will use the keywords with the >>> appropriate information. >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> Michael, >>>> >>>> I mostly understand all of that. I use SVN with Visual Studio here in >>>> my >>>> office. I have a >>>> programmer that comes in and works and I do C# coding. We both check >>>> out >>>> / in pretty much daily. I >>>> have had to reconcile differences a couple of times. I don't do >>>> anything >>>> fancy with it though. >>>> >>>> AFAICT SVN does not add anything into the file itself - author, date >>>> etc. >>>> Given that it could >>>> corrupt a file structure (word or excel) I doubt that it can do that. >>>> I >>>> think the header info is >>>> kept in the repository somewhere. We shall see. >>>> >>>> I exported a FE to text files and checked them in, then checked them >>>> back >>>> out. I then made a simple >>>> edit to the code behind form for one form and reexported / checked in >>>> that >>>> one form. Basically I >>>> did exactly that, export over the top of an existing text file. >>>> >>>> SVN tags files on disk with icons and the icon changed from a green >>>> check >>>> to a red ! until I checked >>>> the change in. Unfortunately I it appears that Tortoise doesn't use >>>> the >>>> same property to find the >>>> repository for the diff application because when i tried to use that >>>> widget it says it can't find >>>> the repository. Sigh. >>>> >>>> But the concept seems sound. Really the hardest part seems like it >>>> would >>>> be getting the file back >>>> in to the MDB. That is probably not difficult, it would just have to >>>> be >>>> deleted and then the text >>>> file sucked in and saved. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>>> John, SVN works the same way as VSS, ClearCase, PVCS, etc. You add >>>>> your >>>>> files or project the first time, this is the base line revision. This >>>>> revision is annotated like 0.001 or something like that. >>>>> >>>>> Then you do a "Checkout" which should add a marker in SVN to indicate >>>>> that >>>>> those files have been checked-out. By checking out you are allowed to >>>>> "Check-In" the files. This does not overwrite or destroy the previous >>>>> file, just adds another copy to the revisioning process. This >>>>> increases >>>>> the revision by one like 0.002. Now you can do a differential between >>>>> 0.001 and 0.002. BTW, differentials only work on text file, not >>>>> binary. >>>>> If you do a "Get" and you make changes you can not do a check-in, you >>>>> must >>>>> do a "Check-Out" first. So over time you will have many revisions of >>>>> files and at some point you will want to "release" the files or >>>>> project >>>>> as >>>>> Version 1.000. Eveything before version 1.000 would be your >>>>> developement >>>>> work for example. Now you have version control. >>>>> >>>>> Then you continue with your developement with revisions (check-out, >>>>> make >>>>> changes, check-in) until you do another release, for example Ver >>>>> 1.100. >>>>> Here is where you can do differentials between the various releases. >>>>> >>>>> Now SVN has (should) features that you would really want like header >>>>> information in the files. This is important information like date, >>>>> time, >>>>> author, description, revision number, and possibly version number. >>>>> SVN >>>>> probrably uses some keywords to that you must place in the header the >>>>> first time (the baseline) and SVN will automatically update these >>>>> keywords >>>>> everytime you do a check-in. The most important items in the header >>>>> are >>>>> the date and revision. So if you were to make a hard copy or have >>>>> several >>>>> soft copies hanging around of the source code you can easily identify >>>>> the >>>>> revision, otherwise it would be very difficult. Doing things your way >>>>> of >>>>> sucking out the objects each time I think would eliminate the header >>>>> information thus rendering the check-out files difficult to track. >>>>> >>>>> So I hope you understand the process of revision and version. Your >>>>> can >>>>> be >>>>> be done but I think it is a lot of work dealing with Access objects. >>>>> Using SVN for .Net projects should be very easy to use and very >>>>> beneficial. >>>>> >>>>> On another note, I would suggest that you come up with a plan for >>>>> version >>>>> control, or SCM (Software Configuration Management). This is for you >>>>> and >>>>> your customers. >>>>> >>>>> Mike... >>>>> >>>>>> Yea, but I want source control. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dan Waters wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>> differentials >>>>>>> of.> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> FMS has a utility you can purchase called Access Detective. It's >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> couple hundred dollars, and you'd quickly get that back in time >>>>>>> saved. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> HTH, >>>>>>> Dan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>>>> I guess the success will depend on what you hope to gain. Without >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> checkin/out from within Access, any changes to a database will have >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> be manually exported and then imported to subversion, right? I'm >>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>> familiar with the product, so how do you keep versions of the >>>>>>>> objects >>>>>>>> rather than overwriting, or does it matter? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:21 PM, jwcolby >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I am trying a workaround. Max has written code that exports all >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> objects in an access database >>>>>>>>> to text files. It seems a short step to using that to get them >>>>>>>>> into >>>>>>> subversion. >>>>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Charlotte Foust wrote: >>>>>>>>>> How would you move items in an out of Access? Source Safe uses >>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>> Access add-in to handle source control at the object level. Is >>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>> something similar for subversion, or are you trying a workaround? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Charlotte >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 1:35 PM, jwcolby >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I am wondering whether we could put together subversion and >>>>>>>>>>> Access >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>> do source control. >>>>>>>>>>> Max's eatbloat will export and import most things Access into a >>>>>>> directory structure. Subversion >>>>>>>>>>> could be used to move that stuff into version control. Once in >>>>>>> subversion, we might be able to do >>>>>>>>>>> differencing etc. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Whaddayathink? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>>>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 14:55:32 2010 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:55:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2007 Office button doesn't display all choices Message-ID: I have an mdb created my somebody else that I am trying to convert a macro to VBA. The help I found via Google states to click the Office button and choose Save As. Clicking on the Office button in the mdb only shows Close database, recent documents and exit Access. No save, save as, option... any ideas? TIA, David From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Jul 16 15:30:57 2010 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:30:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A2007 Office button doesn't display all choices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Never mind, it was locked down. I only needed to hold shift. lol. I hate 2007. :) On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:55 PM, David McAfee wrote: > I have an mdb created my somebody else that I am trying to convert a > macro to VBA. > > The help I found via Google states to click the Office button and > choose Save As. > > Clicking on the Office button in the mdb only shows Close database, > recent documents and exit Access. > > No save, save as, option... > > any ideas? > > > TIA, > David > From bgoss711 at ameritech.net Fri Jul 16 15:51:45 2010 From: bgoss711 at ameritech.net (Bud Goss) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 13:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [AccessD] Solution - ExportXML CreateAdditionalData Named Argument Error Message-ID: <987921.42341.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This works with the Northwind database giving a two level xml table ? Now I will try to use the method to create a four level xml table in my real world application ? Thanks to Charlotte Foust and Darryll Collins for responding to my original post ? Public Sub ExportRel() ?? ' Purpose: Exports the Orders table as well as ?? ' a number of related database to an XML file. ?? ' XSD and XSL files are also created. ' Orig code from MSDN has syntax errors; see attempted fixes below. ' Make the Sub Public to can call from Immediate window. ?? Dim objAD As AdditionalData ?? ' Create the AdditionalData object. ?? Set objAD = Application.CreateAdditionalData ?? ' Add the related tables to the object. ?? With objAD ????? .Add "Order Details" '????? objAD(Item:="Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ????? objAD.Item("Order Details").Add "Order Details Details" ????? .Add "Customers" ????? .Add "Shippers" ????? .Add "Employees" ????? .Add "Products" '????? objAD(Item:="Products").Add "Product Details" ????? objAD("Products").Add "Product Details" ?'????? objAD(Item:="Products")(Item:="Product Details").Add _ ?'??????? "Product Details Details" ?' Try this to fix it: ????? objAD("Products").Item("Product Details").Add _ ???????? "Product Details Details" ????? .Add "Suppliers" ????? .Add "Categories" ?? End With ?? 'Exports XML File to c:\FundXML2 ???? ??? Application.ExportXML ObjectType:=acExportTable, DataSource:="Orders", _ ??? DataTarget:="C:\FundXML2\Test3_Northwind_Andy01.xml", _ ??? AdditionalData:=objAD ?????? MsgBox "ExportXML File Colmplete Complete" End Sub From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 17 17:46:33 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 18:46:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] =?windows-1252?q?Google=92s_Disk_Failure_Experience?= Message-ID: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ I had seen this before but it is an interesting read. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jul 17 18:09:28 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:09:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the info John... there is a lot of misconceptions out there. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ I had seen this before but it is an interesting read. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 17 21:39:01 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 22:39:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C426945.9050104@colbyconsulting.com> This appears to be the first time the public has been given data on a statistically significant sampling of hard drive failures. I continue to be impressed with Google, their methodology is impressive. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the info John... there is a lot of misconceptions out there. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience > > http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ > > I had seen this before but it is an interesting read. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 17 22:19:01 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:19:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 2.009 Archimedes's Steam Cannon Message-ID: <4C4272A5.5030803@colbyconsulting.com> http://web.mit.edu/2.009/www/experiments/steamCannon/ArchimedesSteamCannon.html -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 17 22:31:28 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:31:28 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FAQ: What is MTBF? Message-ID: <4C427590.2000303@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.t-cubed.com/faq_mtbf.htm -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 17 23:01:36 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 00:01:36 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 Message-ID: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is tough to work with however. It has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two inches between the fans and the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in place and get all of the cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then reinserted the fan wall, and then threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. Why on earth they didn't leave the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives inserted and power applied, and the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume simultaneously in order to cause the disks to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. Below are the temps. CPU Temperature 55 ?C Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C Power +12V 12.099 V Power +5V 5.053 V Power +3.3V 3.328 V SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V CPU +1.8V 1.856 V CPU +1.2V 1.232 V DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my Areca raid co-processor card which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch these numbers. The other disks are not being driven but do have power applied. I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees C under max stress but that is acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with these. BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run and minimizes the air flow impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and disks, I need all the help I can get. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From garykjos at gmail.com Sun Jul 18 10:09:29 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:09:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I was reading some of the reviews posted on the Newegg site when you first posted the link to your new server case and it seemed like other people who purchased it were concerned about the heat the disks would be creating due to lack of space between the drives etc. Nice that you can monitor them. Continued good luck with your new server. GK On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:01 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product > > I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. ?It is tough to work with however. ?It > has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two inches between the fans and > the disk backplanes. ?Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in place and get all of the > cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Jul 19 08:56:25 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:56:25 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT?: Lecture 24: eXtreme Programming - Richard Buckland Message-ID: <6E1A66FCA1DA459F8347BE227E35B974@nant> Hi All, FYI: Lecture 24: eXtreme Programming - Richard Buckland http://www.youtube.com/user/UNSWelearning#p/c/6B940F08B9773B9F/27/XP4o0ArkP4 s or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP4o0ArkP4s&feature=related Enjoy! -- Shamil From adtp at airtelmail.in Mon Jul 19 09:33:14 2010 From: adtp at airtelmail.in (A.D. Tejpal) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:03:14 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] BOM Application On Access - Desirable Basic Features References: <2F29ECD363F147C28B72E123D40418AB@desktop08><50FA69D7363E4037BD3A4883CD242168@personal4a8ede><6574102A324B4E44B66D022CE2806A0C@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: <4CDC21AA4163409F9B0ADA3C21656961@personal4a8ede> This is in further to the earlier thread "BOM - Table Structure For Handling Common Parts In Various Assemblies/Sub-Assemblies" (2nd half of Jun-2010). Valuable inputs were kindly provided by Arthur, Rocky, Drew, Jim (D) and Shamil (mentioned in chronological order of their postings). Certain basic features that could perhaps be considered desirable for an access application handling tasks like bill of materials (BOM) are listed below: 1 - Use of composite key made up of PartID and ParentPartID as primary key for junction table. This would be in line with the approach indicated by Shamil. 2 - Similar approach for ancillary table used for holding the extracted product chain. 3 - For data entry / editing, the following arrangement could be helpful to the user, while building up a product chain: (a) Row source for bound combo box meant for ParentPartID should grow progressively in such a manner as to ensure that there is continuity of component chain. At the very start, it would be a single value representing PartID of the top item for which the product chain is being built. (b) On a freshly dirtied new record, entry for PartID to be feasible only if ParentPartID has been entered. (c) Row source for bound combo box meant for PartID should be confined to values which would not lead to circular dependency. (d) On each record, before finally accepting PartID or ParentPartID, super check to be conducted against resultant circular dependency - if any. (e) If freshly entered values are likely to result in duplication of a given combination of PartID and ParentPartID, friendly message to user - without waiting for attempted move to new record. (f) While carrying out data entry / editing, offer the user a choice (say via option buttons) as to the style of display for existing data. For example, it could be one of these: (i) Minimal cluttering by hiding all nesting levels other than the top one, (ii) Medium cluttering by showing all sub-assemblies but hiding their base components (parts having no child). or (iii) Show all. 4 - While extracting the hierarchical chain of components for a given top item, stop recursive process as soon as circular dependency is detected. While preventing potential wastage of loop cycles, it would eliminate the need for laying down an arbitrary ceiling for the number of nesting levels allowed. 5 - In line with the approach indicated in one of the sample db's kindly provided by Jim (D), complete product chain (for the given top item) as extracted, could be displayed in various styles as follows, as per user selection from an option group: (a) All parts (Complete hierarchical chain). (b) Assemblies only - arranged as per relevant nesting level. (c) Assemblies only - Straight. (d) Base parts only - arranged as per relevant nesting level. (e) Base parts only - Straight. Note: Summary information (like maximum nesting levels, number of distinct assemblies and base parts as well as total cost of base parts needed for the product chain) should also get depicted. 6 - Tree View: (a) Tree view display of product chain should match the subform data style as per previous para. (b) The tree view should be in two way synchronization with the pertinent subform. Selection of any node should force the cursor to move to corresponding record in subform and vice-versa, with matching color highlight. (c) Topmost item (for which the product chain is being extracted) in tree view as well as the subform should be highlighted in matching color. (d) All sub-assemblies on the tree view as well as subforms should get highlighted in matching distinct color for ready differentiation as compared to base parts. (e) Total cost of base parts needed for the product chain should also get depicted at bottom in the tree view. 7 - The application should be designed in such a manner as to suit both data types (number or text) for PartID and ParentPartID. I have tried to incorporate the features outlined above, in my new sample db named Form_TreeView_BOM (access 2000 file format), which is now available at Rogers Access Library. Link: http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=45 Interested members might like to examine the same and advise whether anything needs further attention. A.D. Tejpal ------------ From jedi at charm.net Mon Jul 19 11:17:18 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] =?iso-8859-1?q?Google=92s_Disk_Failure_Experience?= In-Reply-To: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> And did you read the "Update: NetApp has responded. " RAID 5 today verges on professional malpractice Mike... > http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ > > I had seen this before but it is an interesting read. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jedi at charm.net Mon Jul 19 11:22:28 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any games during the testing? Is this the idle temp? Mike... > I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product > > I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is tough to > work with however. It > has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two > inches between the fans and > the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in > place and get all of the > cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. > > None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then reinserted the > fan wall, and then > threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. Why > on earth they didn't leave > the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. > > Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives > inserted and power applied, and > the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume simultaneously in > order to cause the disks > to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. > > Below are the temps. > > CPU Temperature 55 ?C > Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C > Power +12V 12.099 V > Power +5V 5.053 V > Power +3.3V 3.328 V > SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V > DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V > PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V > CPU +1.8V 1.856 V > CPU +1.2V 1.232 V > DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V > Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C > Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C > Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C > Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C > Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C > Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C > Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C > Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C > Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C > Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C > Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C > Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C > Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C > Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C > Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C > Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C > > There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my > Areca raid co-processor card > which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch these > numbers. The other disks > are not being driven but do have power applied. > > I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees C > under max stress but that is > acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with these. > > BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. > > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 > > The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run and > minimizes the air flow > impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and disks, I > need all the help I can get. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Jul 19 11:24:18 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:24:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751089@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have a database linked to an SQL server table that has a date time column. I want only the date and the hour portion rounded to the nearest hour. For example 7/18/2010 1:41:00 AM becomes 7/18/2010 2:00:00 AM Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jul 19 11:57:38 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:57:38 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> Michael, You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly stressing the system. The problem here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of the box. So the CPU is not starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of 60C. In one of my many previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on PC boards. We burned in our boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not expected to run at that temp forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive the occasional forays into scorching temps. The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core processors in the case. These new procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that does add even more heat load into the case. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any games > during the testing? Is this the idle temp? > > Mike... > >> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >> >> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is tough to >> work with however. It >> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two >> inches between the fans and >> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >> place and get all of the >> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >> >> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then reinserted the >> fan wall, and then >> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. Why >> on earth they didn't leave >> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >> >> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >> inserted and power applied, and >> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume simultaneously in >> order to cause the disks >> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >> >> Below are the temps. >> >> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >> Power +12V 12.099 V >> Power +5V 5.053 V >> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >> >> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >> Areca raid co-processor card >> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch these >> numbers. The other disks >> are not being driven but do have power applied. >> >> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees C >> under max stress but that is >> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with these. >> >> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >> >> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run and >> minimizes the air flow >> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and disks, I >> need all the help I can get. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Mon Jul 19 12:03:49 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:03:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with DynamicFilters) to Excel References: <7D63E49A897B48BEA404D64FDBF9B510@personal4a8ede> Message-ID: All, Thanks for the help with this question. I really appreciate the assistance. You folks are great! You saved me many hours of experimenting. Sincerely, Brad Marks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Rocky Smolin Sent: Fri 7/16/2010 7:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with DynamicFilters)toExcel Brad: I would use an append query to append the filtered records to a temp export table from inside the report (maybe Open event?) that would incorporate the dynamic report filters. You could build it in SQL, add the 'WHERE' clauses and use db.Execute to run it. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Marks To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 03:45 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - Exporting Report (with Dynamic Filters) toExcel We have an Access 2007 report that has "dynamic filters" which enable the end-users to trim down the amount of data on the report. This is done with code like this... Reports.Report001.Filter = var_Where Reports.Report001.FilterOn = True This works nicely. Now there is a need to export this report and other similar reports to Excel. We have experimented with "DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport" command but the results are not consistent. Sometimes only the headings are exported, in other cases more of the report is exported. >From what we have read, the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command is a better method to use. The catch is that this command can export from either a table or query, but not from a report. We have experimented with this approach and it works well, except we have a problem when a user is using the dynamic filter on the report. For example, we might have 500 records returned by the underlying query. If we use the "DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet" command we will see 500 rows in the generated Excel spreadsheet. This is correct if no dynamic report filters are used. Let's say that a user employs one of the dynamic report filters and the resulting report now has 100 records shown on the report. We would then like to only have 100 records on the generated Excel table if the user chooses to push the "Export to Excel" button that we have provided on the report. We must be missing something. Is there an easy solution? Thanks in advance for your help and insights. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 12:20:41 2010 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:20:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751089@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751089@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: CREATE FUNCTION [dbo].[RoundTime] (@Time datetime, @RoundTo float) RETURNS DATETIME AS BEGIN DECLARE @RoundedTime smalldatetime DECLARE @Multiplier float SET @Multiplier= 24.0/@RoundTo SET @RoundedTime= ROUND(CAST(CAST(CONVERT(VARCHAR, at Time,114) AS DATETIME) AS FLOAT) * @Multiplier,0)/@Multiplier RETURN at RoundedTime END --To use the function: --SELECT dbo.roundtime(GETDATE(),1) '1=rounds to 1 hour, .5 rounds to nearest half hour ... On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I have a database linked to an SQL server table that has a date time column. I want only the date and the hour portion rounded to the nearest hour. For example > > 7/18/2010 1:41:00 AM becomes 7/18/2010 2:00:00 AM > > Thanks > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jedi at charm.net Mon Jul 19 12:29:33 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:29:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, the temps are largely dependent on the evironment. Having your system in a temperature-controlled room like the host servers do will lower the temps. Those environment are usually around 60 degrees F. If you have your system tucked away in your house and the temp is ~75 degrees F, then you **may be** pushing the limits. You really need to find some alternate means to lower the temps. One easy solution is to find a high velocity fan(s) that you can replace in your system. It will make some noise but better fan noise than HD noise--:-O. Maybe a high performance CPU cooler like one from Zalman. With my over-clocked system I run a Zalman cooler and a high-velocity fan which reduced my CPU temps by amost 10 degree C. When I process videos my CPU jumps up from ~41C to ~55C and stays there for hours on end. I believe the thermal shutdown of Intel CPU's is around 80 degrees C. The cooler I can keep things the longer the electronics will last. Mike... > Michael, > > You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly stressing > the system. The problem > here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of the > box. So the CPU is not > starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. > > To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of 60C. > In one of my many > previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on PC > boards. We burned in our > boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not > expected to run at that temp > forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive the > occasional forays into > scorching temps. > > The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core processors > in the case. These new > procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that > does add even more heat load > into the case. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any >> games >> during the testing? Is this the idle temp? >> >> Mike... >> >>> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >>> >>> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is tough >>> to >>> work with however. It >>> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two >>> inches between the fans and >>> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >>> place and get all of the >>> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >>> >>> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then reinserted >>> the >>> fan wall, and then >>> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. >>> Why >>> on earth they didn't leave >>> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >>> >>> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >>> inserted and power applied, and >>> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume simultaneously >>> in >>> order to cause the disks >>> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >>> >>> Below are the temps. >>> >>> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >>> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >>> Power +12V 12.099 V >>> Power +5V 5.053 V >>> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >>> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >>> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >>> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >>> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >>> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >>> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >>> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >>> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >>> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >>> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >>> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >>> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >>> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >>> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >>> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >>> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >>> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >>> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >>> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >>> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >>> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >>> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >>> >>> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >>> Areca raid co-processor card >>> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch >>> these >>> numbers. The other disks >>> are not being driven but do have power applied. >>> >>> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees C >>> under max stress but that is >>> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with these. >>> >>> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >>> >>> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run and >>> minimizes the air flow >>> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and disks, >>> I >>> need all the help I can get. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Jul 19 12:43:00 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:43:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751089@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C19217510AD@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Thanks for the code however I guess I did not explain what I needed well. This looks like SQL Server code. What I need is VBA code. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time CREATE FUNCTION [dbo].[RoundTime] (@Time datetime, @RoundTo float) RETURNS DATETIME AS BEGIN DECLARE @RoundedTime smalldatetime DECLARE @Multiplier float SET @Multiplier= 24.0/@RoundTo SET @RoundedTime= ROUND(CAST(CAST(CONVERT(VARCHAR, at Time,114) AS DATETIME) AS FLOAT) * @Multiplier,0)/@Multiplier RETURN at RoundedTime END --To use the function: --SELECT dbo.roundtime(GETDATE(),1) '1=rounds to 1 hour, .5 rounds to nearest half hour ... On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > I have a database linked to an SQL server table that has a date time column. I want only the date and the hour portion rounded to the nearest hour. For example > > 7/18/2010 1:41:00 AM becomes 7/18/2010 2:00:00 AM > > Thanks > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jul 19 12:43:54 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:43:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> Michael, Yup, yup and yup. Yes, of course the lower the ambient (starting point) the lower all temps from that point. However I really cannot reasonably get the system into a controlled (very cold) environment. As far as the CPU temps go, the best strategy would be water cooling, simply because then the ambient at the surface of the CPU can be controlled directly by the temp of the water, and also because you get high thermal mass fluid removing the heat which is dumped outside of the case. I am moving to a rack mount system. Once that move is complete, I may look at a single water cooling system for all my servers. For the moment, 130F isn't extreme enough to spend time on it. I will be keeping an eye on it though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, the temps are largely dependent on the evironment. Having your > system in a temperature-controlled room like the host servers do will > lower the temps. Those environment are usually around 60 degrees F. If > you have your system tucked away in your house and the temp is ~75 degrees > F, then you **may be** pushing the limits. > > You really need to find some alternate means to lower the temps. One easy > solution is to find a high velocity fan(s) that you can replace in your > system. It will make some noise but better fan noise than HD noise--:-O. > Maybe a high performance CPU cooler like one from Zalman. > > With my over-clocked system I run a Zalman cooler and a high-velocity fan > which reduced my CPU temps by amost 10 degree C. When I process videos my > CPU jumps up from ~41C to ~55C and stays there for hours on end. I > believe the thermal shutdown of Intel CPU's is around 80 degrees C. The > cooler I can keep things the longer the electronics will last. > > Mike... > >> Michael, >> >> You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly stressing >> the system. The problem >> here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of the >> box. So the CPU is not >> starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. >> >> To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of 60C. >> In one of my many >> previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on PC >> boards. We burned in our >> boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not >> expected to run at that temp >> forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive the >> occasional forays into >> scorching temps. >> >> The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core processors >> in the case. These new >> procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that >> does add even more heat load >> into the case. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any >>> games >>> during the testing? Is this the idle temp? >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >>>> >>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >>>> >>>> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is tough >>>> to >>>> work with however. It >>>> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two >>>> inches between the fans and >>>> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >>>> place and get all of the >>>> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >>>> >>>> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then reinserted >>>> the >>>> fan wall, and then >>>> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. >>>> Why >>>> on earth they didn't leave >>>> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >>>> >>>> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >>>> inserted and power applied, and >>>> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume simultaneously >>>> in >>>> order to cause the disks >>>> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >>>> >>>> Below are the temps. >>>> >>>> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >>>> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >>>> Power +12V 12.099 V >>>> Power +5V 5.053 V >>>> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >>>> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >>>> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >>>> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >>>> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >>>> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >>>> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >>>> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >>>> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >>>> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >>>> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >>>> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >>>> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >>>> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >>>> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >>>> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >>>> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >>>> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >>>> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >>>> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >>>> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >>>> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >>>> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >>>> >>>> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >>>> Areca raid co-processor card >>>> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch >>>> these >>>> numbers. The other disks >>>> are not being driven but do have power applied. >>>> >>>> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees C >>>> under max stress but that is >>>> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with these. >>>> >>>> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >>>> >>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >>>> >>>> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run and >>>> minimizes the air flow >>>> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and disks, >>>> I >>>> need all the help I can get. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 12:58:22 2010 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:58:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C19217510AD@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751089@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C19217510AD@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: I'd have the query or stored procedure use the function when you are returning data to the FE. But if that's not what you're looking for, here's a function (at the bottom of the page) that will round to seconds in VBA, you might be able to modify it to round to the eharest hour. http://www.everythingaccess.com/tutorials.asp?ID=Rounding-in-Access HTH David On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 10:43 AM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > Thanks for the code however I guess I did not explain what I needed well. This looks like SQL Server code. What I need is VBA code. Thanks. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:21 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time > > CREATE FUNCTION [dbo].[RoundTime] (@Time datetime, @RoundTo float) > RETURNS DATETIME AS > BEGIN > ? DECLARE @RoundedTime smalldatetime > ? DECLARE @Multiplier float > > ? SET @Multiplier= 24.0/@RoundTo > > ? SET @RoundedTime= ROUND(CAST(CAST(CONVERT(VARCHAR, at Time,114) AS > DATETIME) AS FLOAT) * @Multiplier,0)/@Multiplier > ? RETURN at RoundedTime > END > > > --To use the function: > --SELECT dbo.roundtime(GETDATE(),1) '1=rounds to 1 hour, .5 rounds to > nearest half hour ... > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:24 AM, Kaup, Chester > wrote: >> I have a database linked to an SQL server table that has a date time column. I want only the date and the hour portion rounded to the nearest hour. For example >> >> 7/18/2010 1:41:00 AM becomes 7/18/2010 2:00:00 AM >> >> Thanks >> >> Chester Kaup >> Engineering Technician >> Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP >> Office (432) 688-3797 >> FAX (432) 688-3799 >> >> >> No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jul 19 13:29:57 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:29:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> > And did you read the "Update: NetApp has responded. " That would be this: http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/26/netapp-weighs-in-on-disks/ Which validates my decision to go Raid 6 many years ago. Basically I studied all of this stuff about 5 years ago as I was just getting in to this business that is now much of my income. My read was that Raid 1 and 5 were not robust enough for my needs. I have to say that while I have had single drive failures I have never experienced a dual drive failure. Tomorrow is another day however and I do NOT want to wake up to find my arrays gone. The other thing to remember is that the redundancy level can vary depending on what is being stored. My DATA goes on Raid 6. My temp files have no raid at all. My boot and other less sensitive stuff goes on small raid 1 volumes. I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music collection. I currently have no protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that. With Unraid I would have "raid 5 like" storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still recover. If I do lose it I just re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > And did you read the "Update: NetApp has responded. " > > RAID 5 today verges on professional malpractice > > Mike... > > >> http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ >> >> I had seen this before but it is an interesting read. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From ramzcbu at gmail.com Mon Jul 19 17:26:38 2010 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:26:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Attachments Message-ID: Hello everyone, I'm currently working on a subform that has an attachment field in its data source, and now I want this attachment field to be displayed in an unbound attachment object in the main form. I've done online searches on how to go about this, and it seemed the "best" approach is to first save this attachment field's contents into a file in the HDD, and then use this newly created file as the image source for the attachment object. The contents of the attachment field, by the way, is a single ID photo. I'm tempted to use this approach but worried that the disk i/o will slow things down. Does anyone know of another way of dealing with attachment fields and unbound attachment objects? Thank you in advance! -- Ramil From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jul 19 19:21:38 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:21:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <27608FCEB2DF420392142B508D2F5956@creativesystemdesigns.com> I had a client who owed a Dairy. The server was stored up stairs in the refrigeration warehouse. This location had three issues that needed resolving before the system would remain stable. 1. The upper-floor of the warehouse would over heat due to a combination of close proximity to the roof and being right above the refrigeration compressors. It would get so hot that the hard drives wouldn't read. 2. The power source was unreliable and as soon a compressors would turn off an on the computers would get seriously wacked. I replace 2 motherboards in just over a month. 3. The environment was so full of static that the signals through the network CAT5 cables were continually dropping. Network performance was that of a 4 mbit Arcnet connection. The problems were resolved by running an air duct up from the cooler, installing a big top of the line, through the battery, UPS and the cables from the server to sales offices was replaced with 75ohm coax cable and two combo LAN cards to a coax hub (IRQ 5 and 7...if anyone remembers those times and designations). Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 10:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 John, the temps are largely dependent on the evironment. Having your system in a temperature-controlled room like the host servers do will lower the temps. Those environment are usually around 60 degrees F. If you have your system tucked away in your house and the temp is ~75 degrees F, then you **may be** pushing the limits. You really need to find some alternate means to lower the temps. One easy solution is to find a high velocity fan(s) that you can replace in your system. It will make some noise but better fan noise than HD noise--:-O. Maybe a high performance CPU cooler like one from Zalman. With my over-clocked system I run a Zalman cooler and a high-velocity fan which reduced my CPU temps by amost 10 degree C. When I process videos my CPU jumps up from ~41C to ~55C and stays there for hours on end. I believe the thermal shutdown of Intel CPU's is around 80 degrees C. The cooler I can keep things the longer the electronics will last. Mike... > Michael, > > You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly stressing > the system. The problem > here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of the > box. So the CPU is not > starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. > > To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of 60C. > In one of my many > previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on PC > boards. We burned in our > boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not > expected to run at that temp > forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive the > occasional forays into > scorching temps. > > The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core processors > in the case. These new > procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that > does add even more heat load > into the case. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any >> games >> during the testing? Is this the idle temp? >> >> Mike... >> >>> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rac kmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >>> >>> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is tough >>> to >>> work with however. It >>> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly two >>> inches between the fans and >>> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >>> place and get all of the >>> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >>> >>> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then reinserted >>> the >>> fan wall, and then >>> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. >>> Why >>> on earth they didn't leave >>> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >>> >>> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >>> inserted and power applied, and >>> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume simultaneously >>> in >>> order to cause the disks >>> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >>> >>> Below are the temps. >>> >>> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >>> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >>> Power +12V 12.099 V >>> Power +5V 5.053 V >>> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >>> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >>> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >>> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >>> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >>> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >>> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >>> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >>> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >>> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >>> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >>> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >>> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >>> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >>> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >>> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >>> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >>> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >>> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >>> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >>> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >>> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >>> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >>> >>> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >>> Areca raid co-processor card >>> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch >>> these >>> numbers. The other disks >>> are not being driven but do have power applied. >>> >>> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees C >>> under max stress but that is >>> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with these. >>> >>> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >>> >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >>> >>> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run and >>> minimizes the air flow >>> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and disks, >>> I >>> need all the help I can get. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Jul 19 22:32:44 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:32:44 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses Message-ID: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/06/11/sconovell-suit-is-over-sco-loses/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jul 20 00:29:02 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:29:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] A great little tool for a office or add a link to you web site In-Reply-To: References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> Message-ID: <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Here is an interesting product. This site can translate and reduce down web pages so they can easily printed as either PDF files or straight to the printer. A link to this site can also be imbedded in your web site so a client can print an article or documents. There is a number of possibilities. http://www.printfriendly.com/ Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jul 20 00:39:04 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:39:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses In-Reply-To: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5612AC7433004966A6647AB0195824A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> That is truly sad. At one time it was the best UNIX Company out there. I was even a certified installers and reseller and made a good coin with their products. The trouble with the UNIX market is that they were all a bunch of warring camps and they were too busy fighting each other while a small company like Microsoft slide out of nowhere and effectively wiped them all out. It did not matter to anyone that UNIX was a superior operating system, it was always much more important to have a good user friendly interface. Presentation has always been more important than functionality. After the great UNIX wars, the intransient companies continued fighting until their own oblivion and to make themselves little more than a foot note in history. You have to go no further than your dictionary and look up the word intransient and you will find the SCO icon clearly displayed. UNIX still exists in the mini and main frame but little else. Microsoft did not even fire a shot and watched their only challengers wipe them selves out. But before Microsoft could claim complete world dominance another flavour of UNIX or Linux appeared; stable, powerful and free. Microsoft has claimed that Linux is the single greatest threat to the free enterprise system and maybe it is. Fifteen years later and now Microsoft is watching its empire slowly eroding. Its competitors are using a flavour of Linux or UNIX like Mac, using Linux to control the internet like Google or moving to their own desktop, like Ubuntu. Will Linux ever dominate the market? No; but neither or ever again will Microsoft. Some say that Linux is not ready for prime time but when your 10 or 12 year old son or daughter can easily install it, the old fears are just that; old fears. SCO Unix on the other hand is an old and dying product, the epitome and poster boy of the UNIX wars. The only SCO I think of now is the producer of a very fine brand of non alcoholic ginger beer of which I would highly recommend to anyone. For you Unix buffs who want to see the turbulent UNIX/Linux world check out the following: http://www.quicklycode.com/wp-content/files/unix_history.png Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 8:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/06/11/sconovell-suit-is-over-sco-loses/ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Tue Jul 20 00:42:51 2010 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 17:42:51 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] A great little tool for a office or add a link to you website In-Reply-To: <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <921EB344370343729E617183A1F5C3DE@stevePC> Thanks, Jim! That is sweet! Regards Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Lawrence" Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 5:29 PM To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Subject: [AccessD] A great little tool for a office or add a link to you website > Here is an interesting product. > > This site can translate and reduce down web pages so they can easily > printed > as either PDF files or straight to the printer. > > A link to this site can also be imbedded in your web site so a client can > print an article or documents. There is a number of possibilities. > > http://www.printfriendly.com/ > From jedi at charm.net Tue Jul 20 10:59:39 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses In-Reply-To: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2419.24.35.23.165.1279641579.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Five cent shares, sounds like a killing if you are willing to take the risk. Mike... > http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/06/11/sconovell-suit-is-over-sco-loses/ > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jul 20 11:07:51 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:07:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft programming Open-Source In-Reply-To: <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <2C1FD02D744A4C31BF52CAF96031C64F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Microsoft has expanded its support of products into the Open Source market by supporting applications such as Zend, Mono frameworks to name a few and now more. You will be able to enjoy a couple of new languages like Python and Ruby through Microsoft's new Open Source ventures called IronPython and IronRuby. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-puts-ironpython-ironruby-under -an-apache-license/6872 ...and under an Apache license. Jim From jedi at charm.net Tue Jul 20 11:08:53 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. Yeah if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? Besides 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? Mike... > I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music collection. I > currently have no > protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that. With Unraid I > would have "raid 5 like" > storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still recover. > If I do lose it I just > re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> And did you read the "Update: NetApp has responded. " >> >> RAID 5 today verges on professional malpractice >> >> Mike... >> >> >>> http://storagemojo.com/2007/02/19/googles-disk-failure-experience/ >>> >>> I had seen this before but it is an interesting read. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 20 11:14:16 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:14:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses In-Reply-To: <2419.24.35.23.165.1279641579.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> <2419.24.35.23.165.1279641579.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C45CB58.5090005@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, they are 5c for a reason... lots of debt, no income... officers who think extortion is a valid business model. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > Five cent shares, sounds like a killing if you are willing to take the risk. > > Mike... > >> http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/06/11/sconovell-suit-is-over-sco-loses/ >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jedi at charm.net Tue Jul 20 11:37:43 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <2729.24.35.23.165.1279643863.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> John, the water cooling is intriguing. I researched it several years ago when I over-clocked my cpu. I found information on Tom's Hardware that compared water-cooling to air cooling. The water-cooling did lower the cpu temp but not as much as they had hoped once the system stabilized. Comparing this to a **high quality** air cooler the differential was **not** that great. Again the water-cooler is subject to the ambient temps. Considering the water-coolers have thier own hazards like leakage, pump failure, coolant replacement. Some water-coolers circumvent some of the hazards by being a permanent closed system. But then... Actually the ultimate cpu cooler uses a refrigerant-type coolant just like your refrigerator. But the main goal I was referring to was not just the cpu but the whole system. The HD temps need to be controlled. I suggest make your system portable. Move it to your living room during the winter (to save on heating costs) and then move it to the basement during the summer. :-) Mike... > Michael, > > Yup, yup and yup. Yes, of course the lower the ambient (starting point) > the lower all temps from > that point. However I really cannot reasonably get the system into a > controlled (very cold) > environment. > > As far as the CPU temps go, the best strategy would be water cooling, > simply because then the > ambient at the surface of the CPU can be controlled directly by the temp > of the water, and also > because you get high thermal mass fluid removing the heat which is dumped > outside of the case. > > I am moving to a rack mount system. Once that move is complete, I may > look at a single water > cooling system for all my servers. For the moment, 130F isn't extreme > enough to spend time on it. > I will be keeping an eye on it though. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> John, the temps are largely dependent on the evironment. Having your >> system in a temperature-controlled room like the host servers do will >> lower the temps. Those environment are usually around 60 degrees F. If >> you have your system tucked away in your house and the temp is ~75 >> degrees >> F, then you **may be** pushing the limits. >> >> You really need to find some alternate means to lower the temps. One >> easy >> solution is to find a high velocity fan(s) that you can replace in your >> system. It will make some noise but better fan noise than HD >> noise--:-O. >> Maybe a high performance CPU cooler like one from Zalman. >> >> With my over-clocked system I run a Zalman cooler and a high-velocity >> fan >> which reduced my CPU temps by amost 10 degree C. When I process videos >> my >> CPU jumps up from ~41C to ~55C and stays there for hours on end. I >> believe the thermal shutdown of Intel CPU's is around 80 degrees C. The >> cooler I can keep things the longer the electronics will last. >> >> Mike... >> >>> Michael, >>> >>> You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly >>> stressing >>> the system. The problem >>> here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of >>> the >>> box. So the CPU is not >>> starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. >>> >>> To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of >>> 60C. >>> In one of my many >>> previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on >>> PC >>> boards. We burned in our >>> boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not >>> expected to run at that temp >>> forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive >>> the >>> occasional forays into >>> scorching temps. >>> >>> The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core >>> processors >>> in the case. These new >>> procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that >>> does add even more heat load >>> into the case. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any >>>> games >>>> during the testing? Is this the idle temp? >>>> >>>> Mike... >>>> >>>>> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >>>>> >>>>> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is >>>>> tough >>>>> to >>>>> work with however. It >>>>> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly >>>>> two >>>>> inches between the fans and >>>>> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >>>>> place and get all of the >>>>> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >>>>> >>>>> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then >>>>> reinserted >>>>> the >>>>> fan wall, and then >>>>> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. >>>>> Why >>>>> on earth they didn't leave >>>>> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >>>>> inserted and power applied, and >>>>> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume >>>>> simultaneously >>>>> in >>>>> order to cause the disks >>>>> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >>>>> >>>>> Below are the temps. >>>>> >>>>> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >>>>> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >>>>> Power +12V 12.099 V >>>>> Power +5V 5.053 V >>>>> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >>>>> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >>>>> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >>>>> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >>>>> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >>>>> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >>>>> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >>>>> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >>>>> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >>>>> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >>>>> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >>>>> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >>>>> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >>>>> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >>>>> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >>>>> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >>>>> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >>>>> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >>>>> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >>>>> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >>>>> >>>>> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >>>>> Areca raid co-processor card >>>>> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch >>>>> these >>>>> numbers. The other disks >>>>> are not being driven but do have power applied. >>>>> >>>>> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees >>>>> C >>>>> under max stress but that is >>>>> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with >>>>> these. >>>>> >>>>> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >>>>> >>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >>>>> >>>>> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run >>>>> and >>>>> minimizes the air flow >>>>> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and >>>>> disks, >>>>> I >>>>> need all the help I can get. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>> -- >>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 20 13:27:29 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:27:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> >How much is your time worth? This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive (twice the drives), plus the cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply (twice the disk current - 12v), plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) plus the cost of a case big enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total system cost and I understand the difference. Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental cost accumulated over time. The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an actual cost of 200 minutes to fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because many of them are for my kids who are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to mention the disks I ripped that I just don't care about. HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have never lost one of these drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have been working with raid extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single drives but I have never lost two drives at the same time. I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the probability of two drive failures. In fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any given single drive over 5 years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance that I will have to re-rip 200 dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra money to preventing this possibility. This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual numbers might cause one to come to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the costs", it is worth it to me. It is not worth it to me. Look at Unraid. http://lime-technology.com/ I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider it for a specific class of redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems like a good compromise. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. Yeah > if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? Besides > 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? > > Mike... > >> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music collection. I >> currently have no >> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one disk. With Unraid I >> would have "raid 5 like" >> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still recover. >> If I do lose it I just >> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 20 14:26:19 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:26:19 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <2729.24.35.23.165.1279643863.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> <2729.24.35.23.165.1279643863.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C45F85B.1060207@colbyconsulting.com> You laugh... I have considered moving it to the basement. The basement is pretty cool all year, and very cool in the winter. Once I get everything migrated to rack mount I could easily drop a little window AC into one of the windows in the basement, and then build a little closet to contain the cold air. Good idea! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, the water cooling is intriguing. I researched it several years ago > when I over-clocked my cpu. I found information on Tom's Hardware that > compared water-cooling to air cooling. The water-cooling did lower the > cpu temp but not as much as they had hoped once the system stabilized. > Comparing this to a **high quality** air cooler the differential was > **not** that great. Again the water-cooler is subject to the ambient > temps. Considering the water-coolers have thier own hazards like leakage, > pump failure, coolant replacement. Some water-coolers circumvent some of > the hazards by being a permanent closed system. But then... Actually > the ultimate cpu cooler uses a refrigerant-type coolant just like your > refrigerator. > > But the main goal I was referring to was not just the cpu but the whole > system. The HD temps need to be controlled. > > I suggest make your system portable. Move it to your living room during > the winter (to save on heating costs) and then move it to the basement > during the summer. :-) > > Mike... > >> Michael, >> >> Yup, yup and yup. Yes, of course the lower the ambient (starting point) >> the lower all temps from >> that point. However I really cannot reasonably get the system into a >> controlled (very cold) >> environment. >> >> As far as the CPU temps go, the best strategy would be water cooling, >> simply because then the >> ambient at the surface of the CPU can be controlled directly by the temp >> of the water, and also >> because you get high thermal mass fluid removing the heat which is dumped >> outside of the case. >> >> I am moving to a rack mount system. Once that move is complete, I may >> look at a single water >> cooling system for all my servers. For the moment, 130F isn't extreme >> enough to spend time on it. >> I will be keeping an eye on it though. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, the temps are largely dependent on the evironment. Having your >>> system in a temperature-controlled room like the host servers do will >>> lower the temps. Those environment are usually around 60 degrees F. If >>> you have your system tucked away in your house and the temp is ~75 >>> degrees >>> F, then you **may be** pushing the limits. >>> >>> You really need to find some alternate means to lower the temps. One >>> easy >>> solution is to find a high velocity fan(s) that you can replace in your >>> system. It will make some noise but better fan noise than HD >>> noise--:-O. >>> Maybe a high performance CPU cooler like one from Zalman. >>> >>> With my over-clocked system I run a Zalman cooler and a high-velocity >>> fan >>> which reduced my CPU temps by amost 10 degree C. When I process videos >>> my >>> CPU jumps up from ~41C to ~55C and stays there for hours on end. I >>> believe the thermal shutdown of Intel CPU's is around 80 degrees C. The >>> cooler I can keep things the longer the electronics will last. >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> Michael, >>>> >>>> You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly >>>> stressing >>>> the system. The problem >>>> here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of >>>> the >>>> box. So the CPU is not >>>> starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. >>>> >>>> To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of >>>> 60C. >>>> In one of my many >>>> previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on >>>> PC >>>> boards. We burned in our >>>> boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not >>>> expected to run at that temp >>>> forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive >>>> the >>>> occasional forays into >>>> scorching temps. >>>> >>>> The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core >>>> processors >>>> in the case. These new >>>> procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that >>>> does add even more heat load >>>> into the case. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>>> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any >>>>> games >>>>> during the testing? Is this the idle temp? >>>>> >>>>> Mike... >>>>> >>>>>> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >>>>>> >>>>>> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is >>>>>> tough >>>>>> to >>>>>> work with however. It >>>>>> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly >>>>>> two >>>>>> inches between the fans and >>>>>> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >>>>>> place and get all of the >>>>>> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >>>>>> >>>>>> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then >>>>>> reinserted >>>>>> the >>>>>> fan wall, and then >>>>>> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. >>>>>> Why >>>>>> on earth they didn't leave >>>>>> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >>>>>> inserted and power applied, and >>>>>> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume >>>>>> simultaneously >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to cause the disks >>>>>> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >>>>>> >>>>>> Below are the temps. >>>>>> >>>>>> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >>>>>> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Power +12V 12.099 V >>>>>> Power +5V 5.053 V >>>>>> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >>>>>> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >>>>>> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >>>>>> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >>>>>> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >>>>>> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >>>>>> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >>>>>> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >>>>>> >>>>>> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >>>>>> Areca raid co-processor card >>>>>> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch >>>>>> these >>>>>> numbers. The other disks >>>>>> are not being driven but do have power applied. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees >>>>>> C >>>>>> under max stress but that is >>>>>> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with >>>>>> these. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >>>>>> >>>>>> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run >>>>>> and >>>>>> minimizes the air flow >>>>>> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and >>>>>> disks, >>>>>> I >>>>>> need all the help I can get. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From kismert at gmail.com Tue Jul 20 14:41:25 2010 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:41:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft programming Open-Source Message-ID: > > Jim Lawrence: > Microsoft has expanded its support of products into the Open Source market > by supporting applications such as Zend, Mono frameworks to name a few and > now more. > > You will be able to enjoy a couple of new languages like Python and Ruby > through Microsoft's new Open Source ventures called IronPython and > IronRuby. > > ...and under an Apache license. > Let's also mention: * PHP support in IIS7 (and 6), including PHP opcode caching * The SQL Server Native Driver for PHP * SVG (!!) in IE9 All of the Microsoft haters should ask: "what have you done to make me hate you lately?" -Ken From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 20 15:29:21 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:29:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft programming Open-Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C460721.5020606@colbyconsulting.com> New toolbars in Access when there are so many bugs still waiting to be fixed? Not that I hate MS, I don't. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Kenneth Ismert wrote: >> Jim Lawrence: >> Microsoft has expanded its support of products into the Open Source market >> by supporting applications such as Zend, Mono frameworks to name a few and >> now more. >> >> You will be able to enjoy a couple of new languages like Python and Ruby >> through Microsoft's new Open Source ventures called IronPython and >> IronRuby. >> >> ...and under an Apache license. >> > > Let's also mention: > * PHP support in IIS7 (and 6), including PHP opcode caching > * The SQL Server Native Driver for PHP > * SVG (!!) in IE9 > > All of the Microsoft haters should ask: "what have you done to make me hate > you lately?" > > -Ken From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jul 20 15:56:03 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:56:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <4C45F85B.1060207@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> <2729.24.35.23.165.1279643863.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45F85B.1060207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: You could always get an old refrigerator, put it in the basement, drill a few holes so you can run your power and LAN cables through, then caulk the holes up with putty, put the computers in the bottom section and any extract drives in the freezer, hook everything up, turn everything on then and close the door. ;-) If that is not cold enough get an old chest freezer. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 You laugh... I have considered moving it to the basement. The basement is pretty cool all year, and very cool in the winter. Once I get everything migrated to rack mount I could easily drop a little window AC into one of the windows in the basement, and then build a little closet to contain the cold air. Good idea! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > John, the water cooling is intriguing. I researched it several years ago > when I over-clocked my cpu. I found information on Tom's Hardware that > compared water-cooling to air cooling. The water-cooling did lower the > cpu temp but not as much as they had hoped once the system stabilized. > Comparing this to a **high quality** air cooler the differential was > **not** that great. Again the water-cooler is subject to the ambient > temps. Considering the water-coolers have thier own hazards like leakage, > pump failure, coolant replacement. Some water-coolers circumvent some of > the hazards by being a permanent closed system. But then... Actually > the ultimate cpu cooler uses a refrigerant-type coolant just like your > refrigerator. > > But the main goal I was referring to was not just the cpu but the whole > system. The HD temps need to be controlled. > > I suggest make your system portable. Move it to your living room during > the winter (to save on heating costs) and then move it to the basement > during the summer. :-) > > Mike... > >> Michael, >> >> Yup, yup and yup. Yes, of course the lower the ambient (starting point) >> the lower all temps from >> that point. However I really cannot reasonably get the system into a >> controlled (very cold) >> environment. >> >> As far as the CPU temps go, the best strategy would be water cooling, >> simply because then the >> ambient at the surface of the CPU can be controlled directly by the temp >> of the water, and also >> because you get high thermal mass fluid removing the heat which is dumped >> outside of the case. >> >> I am moving to a rack mount system. Once that move is complete, I may >> look at a single water >> cooling system for all my servers. For the moment, 130F isn't extreme >> enough to spend time on it. >> I will be keeping an eye on it though. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, the temps are largely dependent on the evironment. Having your >>> system in a temperature-controlled room like the host servers do will >>> lower the temps. Those environment are usually around 60 degrees F. If >>> you have your system tucked away in your house and the temp is ~75 >>> degrees >>> F, then you **may be** pushing the limits. >>> >>> You really need to find some alternate means to lower the temps. One >>> easy >>> solution is to find a high velocity fan(s) that you can replace in your >>> system. It will make some noise but better fan noise than HD >>> noise--:-O. >>> Maybe a high performance CPU cooler like one from Zalman. >>> >>> With my over-clocked system I run a Zalman cooler and a high-velocity >>> fan >>> which reduced my CPU temps by amost 10 degree C. When I process videos >>> my >>> CPU jumps up from ~41C to ~55C and stays there for hours on end. I >>> believe the thermal shutdown of Intel CPU's is around 80 degrees C. The >>> cooler I can keep things the longer the electronics will last. >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> Michael, >>>> >>>> You are right it does look high, and no, I was not particularly >>>> stressing >>>> the system. The problem >>>> here is that I have 20 hard disks dumping heat into the back part of >>>> the >>>> box. So the CPU is not >>>> starting at ambient, it is starting at ambient plus disk heat load. >>>> >>>> To be honest I do not worry about the CPU until it gets well north of >>>> 60C. >>>> In one of my many >>>> previous lives I was tasked with running an oven that did a burn in on >>>> PC >>>> boards. We burned in our >>>> boards at 180 F (80C). Of course those were mil spec and they were not >>>> expected to run at that temp >>>> forever but that did convince me that electronics can easily survive >>>> the >>>> occasional forays into >>>> scorching temps. >>>> >>>> The real issue will come when I get a pair of 8 core or 12 core >>>> processors >>>> in the case. These new >>>> procs are rated to run all cores full tilt at under 125 watts but that >>>> does add even more heat load >>>> into the case. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>>> John, the CPU temp looks unusually high, 55C. Were you playing any >>>>> games >>>>> during the testing? Is this the idle temp? >>>>> >>>>> Mike... >>>>> >>>>>> I bought the Norco 4020 to build a server with. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219021&cm_re=4u_rac kmount_case-_-11-219-021-_-Product >>>>>> >>>>>> I am impressed with the case, though it is consumer grade. It is >>>>>> tough >>>>>> to >>>>>> work with however. It >>>>>> has a fan wall just behind the disk drive cage which leaves exactly >>>>>> two >>>>>> inches between the fans and >>>>>> the disk backplanes. Obviously it is impossible to leave the wall in >>>>>> place and get all of the >>>>>> cables in, but removing the fan wall is a job for a safe cracker. >>>>>> >>>>>> None the less I did so, got 20 disks in and cabled up, then >>>>>> reinserted >>>>>> the >>>>>> fan wall, and then >>>>>> threaded the cables through the holes in the BOTTOM of the fan wall. >>>>>> Why >>>>>> on earth they didn't leave >>>>>> the holes on the top of the fan wall is beyond me but they didn't. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, for the first time tonight I tested temps with all 20 drives >>>>>> inserted and power applied, and >>>>>> the fan wall operating. I ran a defrag on every volume >>>>>> simultaneously >>>>>> in >>>>>> order to cause the disks >>>>>> to work and generate as much heat as I could cause. >>>>>> >>>>>> Below are the temps. >>>>>> >>>>>> CPU Temperature 55 ?C >>>>>> Ctrl Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Power +12V 12.099 V >>>>>> Power +5V 5.053 V >>>>>> Power +3.3V 3.328 V >>>>>> SATA PHY +2.5V 2.528 V >>>>>> DDR-II +1.8V 1.872 V >>>>>> PCI-E +1.8V 1.872 V >>>>>> CPU +1.8V 1.856 V >>>>>> CPU +1.2V 1.232 V >>>>>> DDR-II +0.9V 0.928 V >>>>>> Hdd#1 Temperature 37 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#2 Temperature 40 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#3 Temperature 42 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#4 Temperature 39 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#5 Temperature 47 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#6 Temperature 51 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#7 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#8 Temperature 46 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#9 Temperature 37 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#10 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#11 Temperature 44 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#12 Temperature 47 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#13 Temperature 45 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#14 Temperature 50 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#15 Temperature 49 ?C >>>>>> Hdd#16 Temperature 42 ?C >>>>>> >>>>>> There are only 16 drives showing because these 16 are cabled up to my >>>>>> Areca raid co-processor card >>>>>> which is a 16 port card, and that card provides a utility to watch >>>>>> these >>>>>> numbers. The other disks >>>>>> are not being driven but do have power applied. >>>>>> >>>>>> I am satisfied with the temps. Several disks actually hit 53 degrees >>>>>> C >>>>>> under max stress but that is >>>>>> acceptable to me. I would like lower temps but I can live with >>>>>> these. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW I am using the Corsair 750W modular PS which is a NICE PS. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010 >>>>>> >>>>>> The 12V cables are ribbon cables which makes them very easy to run >>>>>> and >>>>>> minimizes the air flow >>>>>> impedance. With only 2 inches to work with between the fans and >>>>>> disks, >>>>>> I >>>>>> need all the help I can get. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AccessD mailing list >>>>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Jul 20 15:57:21 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:57:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft programming Open-Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8C87012B8D3B4264A72528D2A5C6D941@creativesystemdesigns.com> I must admit... I an happy and all that I could say negative was its about time. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kenneth Ismert Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Microsoft programming Open-Source > > Jim Lawrence: > Microsoft has expanded its support of products into the Open Source market > by supporting applications such as Zend, Mono frameworks to name a few and > now more. > > You will be able to enjoy a couple of new languages like Python and Ruby > through Microsoft's new Open Source ventures called IronPython and > IronRuby. > > ...and under an Apache license. > Let's also mention: * PHP support in IIS7 (and 6), including PHP opcode caching * The SQL Server Native Driver for PHP * SVG (!!) in IE9 All of the Microsoft haters should ask: "what have you done to make me hate you lately?" -Ken -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 16:19:14 2010 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:19:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses In-Reply-To: <5612AC7433004966A6647AB0195824A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com>, <5612AC7433004966A6647AB0195824A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim: Perhaps you meant antonym? I didn't find the SCO icon. Intransient seems to preempt 'their own oblivion'. Intransient \In*tran"sient\, a. Not transient; remaining; permanent. --Killingbeck. [1913 Webster] Did you mean intransigent or transient or something else? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: accessd at shaw.ca > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:39:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses > > That is truly sad. > > At one time it was the best UNIX Company out there. I was even a certified > installers and reseller and made a good coin with their products. The > trouble with the UNIX market is that they were all a bunch of warring camps > and they were too busy fighting each other while a small company like > Microsoft slide out of nowhere and effectively wiped them all out. > > It did not matter to anyone that UNIX was a superior operating system, it > was always much more important to have a good user friendly interface. > Presentation has always been more important than functionality. > > After the great UNIX wars, the intransient companies continued fighting > until their own oblivion and to make themselves little more than a foot note > in history. You have to go no further than your dictionary and look up the > word intransient and you will find the SCO icon clearly displayed. > > UNIX still exists in the mini and main frame but little else. Microsoft did > not even fire a shot and watched their only challengers wipe them selves > out. But before Microsoft could claim complete world dominance another > flavour of UNIX or Linux appeared; stable, powerful and free. > > Microsoft has claimed that Linux is the single greatest threat to the free > enterprise system and maybe it is. > > Fifteen years later and now Microsoft is watching its empire slowly eroding. > Its competitors are using a flavour of Linux or UNIX like Mac, using Linux > to control the internet like Google or moving to their own desktop, like > Ubuntu. Will Linux ever dominate the market? No; but neither or ever again > will Microsoft. > > Some say that Linux is not ready for prime time but when your 10 or 12 year > old son or daughter can easily install it, the old fears are just that; old > fears. > > SCO Unix on the other hand is an old and dying product, the epitome and > poster boy of the UNIX wars. The only SCO I think of now is the producer of > a very fine brand of non alcoholic ginger beer of which I would highly > recommend to anyone. > > For you Unix buffs who want to see the turbulent UNIX/Linux world check out > the following: http://www.quicklycode.com/wp-content/files/unix_history.png > > Jim _________________________________________________________________ Turn down-time into play-time with Messenger games http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734385 From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 17:21:23 2010 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:21:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Attachments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: A database I've built includes photos of employees, contacts and equipment and I have a number of reports that include training certificates that include trainee photos. The file system has a structure that mirrors the table structure with a folder for any record that contains files. Given the following 3 tables as an example: tblContact, tblEquipment, tblEmployee, each has an autonumber primary key. The database path is determined from the connect string. Below the path taken from the connect string, there is a Files folder. Beneath that folder is a Mid$(strTableName, 3) folder, hence ...\database path\Files\Employee\ ...\database path\Files\Contact\ ...\database path\Files\Equipment\ Beneath that, there is a folder bearing the primary key number for every record that has files. For tblEmployee record 342, the folder is: ...\database path\Files\Employee\342\ Should there be a need, you can add folders beneath that level for field level filing of documents. The Employee form has an unbound image control 'imgPhoto'. When the application navigates to the record, it checks to see if a file named Portrait.jpg exists at the target path and if so, it sets the picture property of the image control and then makes it visible. If Len(Dir("...\database path\Files\Employee\" & Me.ContactID & "\Portrait.jpg")) Then .imgPhoto.Picture = "...\database path\Files\Employee\" & Me.ContactID & "\Portrait.jpg" .imgPhoto.Visible = True Else .imgPhoto.Visible = False End If I use the same approach for certificate reports. This is very fast in execution and simple to implement. There are a few functions I use to build the path via calls to mkDir. To open the folder so created, I use a wrapper to the shellexecute Win API call and pass it the path and it opens the folder to drop in the photos or any other type of related file. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: ramzcbu at gmail.com > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:26:38 -0700 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Attachments > > Hello everyone, > > I'm currently working on a subform that has an attachment field in its data > source, and now I want this attachment field to be displayed in an unbound > attachment object in the main form. I've done online searches on how to go > about this, and it seemed the "best" approach is to first save this > attachment field's contents into a file in the HDD, and then use this newly > created file as the image source for the attachment object. The contents of > the attachment field, by the way, is a single ID photo. I'm tempted to use > this approach but worried that the disk i/o will slow things down. Does > anyone know of another way of dealing with attachment fields and unbound > attachment objects? > > Thank you in advance! > > -- Ramil > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Turn down-time into play-time with Messenger games http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734385 From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 20 18:43:37 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 19:43:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> <2729.24.35.23.165.1279643863.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45F85B.1060207@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C4634A9.7070008@colbyconsulting.com> Where does the keg go? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > You could always get an old refrigerator, put it in the basement, drill a > few holes so you can run your power and LAN cables through, then caulk the > holes up with putty, put the computers in the bottom section and any extract > drives in the freezer, hook everything up, turn everything on then and close > the door. ;-) > > If that is not cold enough get an old chest freezer. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:26 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 > > You laugh... I have considered moving it to the basement. The basement is > pretty cool all year, and > very cool in the winter. Once I get everything migrated to rack mount I > could easily drop a little > window AC into one of the windows in the basement, and then build a little > closet to contain the > cold air. Good idea! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jul 21 00:41:47 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:41:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 In-Reply-To: <4C4634A9.7070008@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C427CA0.4040400@colbyconsulting.com> <1916.24.35.23.165.1279556548.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448402.4020603@colbyconsulting.com> <2571.24.35.23.165.1279560573.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C448EDA.3040003@colbyconsulting.com> <2729.24.35.23.165.1279643863.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45F85B.1060207@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4634A9.7070008@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <899A022ED04D4E2EA9816AF0E1E7FCC8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Preferrably below the servers as leaking can cause issues. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 4:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 Where does the keg go? ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Jim Lawrence wrote: > You could always get an old refrigerator, put it in the basement, drill a > few holes so you can run your power and LAN cables through, then caulk the > holes up with putty, put the computers in the bottom section and any extract > drives in the freezer, hook everything up, turn everything on then and close > the door. ;-) > > If that is not cold enough get an old chest freezer. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 12:26 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] disk drive temps for the Norco 4020 > > You laugh... I have considered moving it to the basement. The basement is > pretty cool all year, and > very cool in the winter. Once I get everything migrated to rack mount I > could easily drop a little > window AC into one of the windows in the basement, and then build a little > closet to contain the > cold air. Good idea! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 21 07:42:05 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:42:05 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Friday Humor Message-ID: <4C46EB1D.40605@colbyconsulting.com> One year, I decided to buy my mother-in-law a cemetery plot as a Christmas gift... The next year, I didn't buy her a gift. When she asked me why, I replied, "Well, you still haven't used the gift I bought you last year!" And that's how the fight started..... ______________________________ My wife and I were watching Who Wants To Be A Millionaire while we were in bed. I turned to her and said, 'Do you want to have Sex?' 'No,' she answered. I then said, 'Is that your final answer?' She didn't even look at me this time, simply saying, 'Yes..' So I said, "Then I'd like to phone a friend." And that's when the fight started... ________________________________ I took my wife to a restaurant. The waiter, for some reason, took my order first. "I'll have the rump steak, rare, please." He said, "Aren't you worried about the mad cow?" "Nah, she can order for herself." And that's when the fight started..... ________________________________ My wife and I were sitting at a table at her high school reunion, and she kept staring at a drunken man swigging his drink as he sat alone at a nearby table. I asked her, "Do you know him?" "Yes", she sighed, "He's my old boyfriend.... I understand he took to drinking right after we split up those many years ago, and I hear he hasn't been sober since." "My God!" I said, "Who would think a person could go on celebrating that long?" And then the fight started... ________________________________ When our lawn mower broke and wouldn't run, my wife kept hinting to me that I should get it fixed. But, somehow I always had something else to take care of first, the shed, the boat, making beer.. Always something more important to me. Finally she thought of a clever way to make her point. When I arrived home one day, I found her seated in the tall grass, busily snipping away with a tiny pair of sewing scissors. I watched silently for a short time and then went into the house.. I was gone only a minute, and when I came out again I handed her a toothbrush. I said, "When you finish cutting the grass, you might as well sweep the driveway." The doctors say I will walk again, but I will always have a limp. ________________________________ My wife sat down next to me as I was flipping channels. She asked, "What's on TV?" I said, "Dust." And then the fight started... ________________________________ Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my lunch, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the van, and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50 mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day. I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed.. I cuddled up to my wife's back, now with a different anticipation, and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible." My loving wife of 5 years replied, "And, can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?" And that's how the fight started... ________________________________ My wife was hinting about what she wanted for our upcoming anniversary. She said, "I want something shiny that goes from 0 to 150 in about 3 seconds." I bought her a bathroom scale. And then the fight started...... ________________________________ After retiring, I went to the Social Security office to apply for Social Security. The woman behind the counter asked me for my driver's License to verify my age. I looked in my pockets and realized I had left my wallet at home. I told the woman that I was very sorry, but I would have to go home and come back later. The woman said, 'Unbutton your shirt'. So I opened my shirt revealing my curly silver hair. She said, 'That silver hair on your chest is proof enough for me' and she processed my Social Security application.. When I got home, I excitedly told my wife about my experience at the Social Security office... She said, 'You should have dropped your pants. You might have gotten disability, too.' And then the fight started... ________________________________ My wife was standing nude, looking in the bedroom mirror. She was not happy with what she saw and said to me, "I feel horrible; I look old, fat and ugly. I really need you to pay me a compliment.' I replied, "Your eyesight's damn near perfect." And then the fight started........ -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jul 21 11:40:24 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:40:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes In-Reply-To: <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> How to build a Blog website in 15 minutes using Ruby on Rails: http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov Jim From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed Jul 21 11:52:56 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:52:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes In-Reply-To: <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005><370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Pretty much have to know how to do it before you can do it in 15 minutes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes How to build a Blog website in 15 minutes using Ruby on Rails: http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jedi at charm.net Wed Jul 21 12:42:29 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD shows and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I have whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying the Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is important to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. Mike... > >How much is your time worth? > > This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... > > The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive (twice > the drives), plus the > cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply (twice > the disk current - 12v), > plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) plus > the cost of a case big > enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... > > Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total > system cost and I understand > the difference. > > Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is the > cost of my time to rip 200 > dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. > > I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental > cost accumulated over time. > The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an > actual cost of 200 minutes to > fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because many > of them are for my kids who > are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to mention > the disks I ripped that I > just don't care about. > > HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have > never lost one of these > drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have been > working with raid > extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single > drives but I have never lost > two drives at the same time. > > I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the probability of > two drive failures. In > fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any > given single drive over 5 > years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) > would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or > ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. > > All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance that > I will have to re-rip 200 > dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra money > to preventing this > possibility. > > This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual > numbers might cause one to come > to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the > costs", it is worth it to me. > > It is not worth it to me. > > Look at Unraid. > > http://lime-technology.com/ > > I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider it > for a specific class of > redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems like a > good compromise. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. Yeah >> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >> Besides >> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >> >> Mike... >> >>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music collection. >>> I >>> currently have no >>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one disk. >>> With Unraid I >>> would have "raid 5 like" >>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>> recover. >>> If I do lose it I just >>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 21 13:14:06 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:14:06 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C4738EE.7000304@colbyconsulting.com> Yep, different needs. But I am looking at a raid 5 like redundancy, so I get redundancy but without the 2X overhead. I have to question whether the overhead of taping / cutting commercials doesn't reduce your savings quite a bit. As you asked me, how much time and how do you value your time. But that is a whole nother discussion. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each > and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD shows > and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I have > whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying the > Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is important > to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media > server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. > > Mike... > >> >How much is your time worth? >> >> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >> >> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive (twice >> the drives), plus the >> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply (twice >> the disk current - 12v), >> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) plus >> the cost of a case big >> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >> >> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >> system cost and I understand >> the difference. >> >> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is the >> cost of my time to rip 200 >> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >> >> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >> cost accumulated over time. >> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >> actual cost of 200 minutes to >> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because many >> of them are for my kids who >> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to mention >> the disks I ripped that I >> just don't care about. >> >> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >> never lost one of these >> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have been >> working with raid >> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >> drives but I have never lost >> two drives at the same time. >> >> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the probability of >> two drive failures. In >> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >> given single drive over 5 >> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >> >> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance that >> I will have to re-rip 200 >> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra money >> to preventing this >> possibility. >> >> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >> numbers might cause one to come >> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >> costs", it is worth it to me. >> >> It is not worth it to me. >> >> Look at Unraid. >> >> http://lime-technology.com/ >> >> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider it >> for a specific class of >> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems like a >> good compromise. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. Yeah >>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>> Besides >>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music collection. >>>> I >>>> currently have no >>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one disk. >>>> With Unraid I >>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>> recover. >>>> If I do lose it I just >>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jul 21 15:58:20 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:58:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes In-Reply-To: References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0F4D8B3F7BD142B8BF004D5DE772EF64@creativesystemdesigns.com> So you are saying, "You have to have done before you can do it"? ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes Pretty much have to know how to do it before you can do it in 15 minutes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes How to build a Blog website in 15 minutes using Ruby on Rails: http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Jul 21 16:14:11 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:14:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses In-Reply-To: References: <4C4518DC.9090305@colbyconsulting.com> <5612AC7433004966A6647AB0195824A1@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Whoop... the word should have been 'intractable'... I guess that comes with writing fast and letting the spell-checker do the correcting. Thanks for the heads up, Ciao, and I will make the appropriate addition to my spell checker library. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jurgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 2:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses Jim: Perhaps you meant antonym? I didn't find the SCO icon. Intransient seems to preempt 'their own oblivion'. Intransient \In*tran"sient\, a. Not transient; remaining; permanent. --Killingbeck. [1913 Webster] Did you mean intransigent or transient or something else? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > From: accessd at shaw.ca > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:39:04 -0700 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses > > That is truly sad. > > At one time it was the best UNIX Company out there. I was even a certified > installers and reseller and made a good coin with their products. The > trouble with the UNIX market is that they were all a bunch of warring camps > and they were too busy fighting each other while a small company like > Microsoft slide out of nowhere and effectively wiped them all out. > > It did not matter to anyone that UNIX was a superior operating system, it > was always much more important to have a good user friendly interface. > Presentation has always been more important than functionality. > > After the great UNIX wars, the intransient companies continued fighting > until their own oblivion and to make themselves little more than a foot note > in history. You have to go no further than your dictionary and look up the > word intransient and you will find the SCO icon clearly displayed. > > UNIX still exists in the mini and main frame but little else. Microsoft did > not even fire a shot and watched their only challengers wipe them selves > out. But before Microsoft could claim complete world dominance another > flavour of UNIX or Linux appeared; stable, powerful and free. > > Microsoft has claimed that Linux is the single greatest threat to the free > enterprise system and maybe it is. > > Fifteen years later and now Microsoft is watching its empire slowly eroding. > Its competitors are using a flavour of Linux or UNIX like Mac, using Linux > to control the internet like Google or moving to their own desktop, like > Ubuntu. Will Linux ever dominate the market? No; but neither or ever again > will Microsoft. > > Some say that Linux is not ready for prime time but when your 10 or 12 year > old son or daughter can easily install it, the old fears are just that; old > fears. > > SCO Unix on the other hand is an old and dying product, the epitome and > poster boy of the UNIX wars. The only SCO I think of now is the producer of > a very fine brand of non alcoholic ginger beer of which I would highly > recommend to anyone. > > For you Unix buffs who want to see the turbulent UNIX/Linux world check out > the following: http://www.quicklycode.com/wp-content/files/unix_history.png > > Jim _________________________________________________________________ Turn down-time into play-time with Messenger games http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734385 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Jul 21 16:47:09 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:47:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD shows and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I have whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying the Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is important to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. Mike... > >How much is your time worth? > > This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... > > The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive (twice > the drives), plus the > cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply (twice > the disk current - 12v), > plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) plus > the cost of a case big > enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... > > Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total > system cost and I understand > the difference. > > Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is the > cost of my time to rip 200 > dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. > > I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental > cost accumulated over time. > The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an > actual cost of 200 minutes to > fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because many > of them are for my kids who > are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to mention > the disks I ripped that I > just don't care about. > > HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have > never lost one of these > drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have been > working with raid > extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single > drives but I have never lost > two drives at the same time. > > I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the probability of > two drive failures. In > fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any > given single drive over 5 > years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) > would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or > ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. > > All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance that > I will have to re-rip 200 > dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra money > to preventing this > possibility. > > This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual > numbers might cause one to come > to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the > costs", it is worth it to me. > > It is not worth it to me. > > Look at Unraid. > > http://lime-technology.com/ > > I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider it > for a specific class of > redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems like a > good compromise. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. Yeah >> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >> Besides >> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >> >> Mike... >> >>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music collection. >>> I >>> currently have no >>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one disk. >>> With Unraid I >>> would have "raid 5 like" >>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>> recover. >>> If I do lose it I just >>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Wed Jul 21 16:55:08 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:55:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes In-Reply-To: <0F4D8B3F7BD142B8BF004D5DE772EF64@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005><370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com><4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> <0F4D8B3F7BD142B8BF004D5DE772EF64@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <9C7332E77B4A49EFBD3EF7E9139643A5@murphy3234aaf1> In 15 minutes. I have looked at Ruby and getting to the point where I could do an original project, such as the demo, in 15 minutes I'd have to have spent a lot of time learning it. I find the whole model view control approach interesting, but need more time to understand it. Microsoft has implemented the approach in .NET. I don't know how to use that yet either. I may just be dense with few remaining functional neurons. Regards -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes So you are saying, "You have to have done before you can do it"? ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes Pretty much have to know how to do it before you can do it in 15 minutes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Build a web site in 15 minutes How to build a Blog website in 15 minutes using Ruby on Rails: http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_blog_2.mov Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 21 21:48:24 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:48:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C47B178.60300@colbyconsulting.com> Or... for 400$ plus parts I already have: MB (6 sata ports) Have it Processor Have it Memory Have it PS Have it (3) 1T drives Have it (movies installed) (7) 640G drives Have it Plus: (1) 4 port PCI Express card $90 (1) 16 drive unraid license $119 (1) 1TB parity drive $100 Case $90 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-020-_-Product Total: $400 for for ~7 terabytes usable. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Drew Wutka wrote: > A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for > ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte > drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored > 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience > > Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each > and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD > shows > and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I > have > whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying > the > Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is > important > to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media > server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. > > Mike... > >> >How much is your time worth? >> >> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >> >> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive > (twice >> the drives), plus the >> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply > (twice >> the disk current - 12v), >> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) > plus >> the cost of a case big >> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >> >> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >> system cost and I understand >> the difference. >> >> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is > the >> cost of my time to rip 200 >> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >> >> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >> cost accumulated over time. >> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >> actual cost of 200 minutes to >> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because > many >> of them are for my kids who >> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to > mention >> the disks I ripped that I >> just don't care about. >> >> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >> never lost one of these >> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have > been >> working with raid >> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >> drives but I have never lost >> two drives at the same time. >> >> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the > probability of >> two drive failures. In >> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >> given single drive over 5 >> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >> >> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance > that >> I will have to re-rip 200 >> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra > money >> to preventing this >> possibility. >> >> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >> numbers might cause one to come >> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >> costs", it is worth it to me. >> >> It is not worth it to me. >> >> Look at Unraid. >> >> http://lime-technology.com/ >> >> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider > it >> for a specific class of >> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems > like a >> good compromise. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. > Yeah >>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>> Besides >>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music > collection. >>>> I >>>> currently have no >>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one > disk. >>>> With Unraid I >>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>> recover. >>>> If I do lose it I just >>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jedi at charm.net Thu Jul 22 11:27:15 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:27:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <4C47B178.60300@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C47B178.60300@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1308.24.35.23.165.1279816035.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Yeah but we are not running a server farm. :-P Mike... > Or... for 400$ plus parts I already have: > > MB (6 sata ports) Have it > Processor Have it > Memory Have it > PS Have it > (3) 1T drives Have it (movies installed) > (7) 640G drives Have it > > Plus: > > (1) 4 port PCI Express card $90 > (1) 16 drive unraid license $119 > (1) 1TB parity drive $100 > > Case $90 > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-020-_-Product > > Total: $400 for for ~7 terabytes usable. > > ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Drew Wutka wrote: >> A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for >> ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte >> drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored >> 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr >> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience >> >> Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each >> and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD >> shows >> and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I >> have >> whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying >> the >> Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is >> important >> to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media >> server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. >> >> Mike... >> >>> >How much is your time worth? >>> >>> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >>> >>> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive >> (twice >>> the drives), plus the >>> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply >> (twice >>> the disk current - 12v), >>> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) >> plus >>> the cost of a case big >>> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >>> >>> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >>> system cost and I understand >>> the difference. >>> >>> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is >> the >>> cost of my time to rip 200 >>> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >>> >>> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >>> cost accumulated over time. >>> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >>> actual cost of 200 minutes to >>> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because >> many >>> of them are for my kids who >>> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to >> mention >>> the disks I ripped that I >>> just don't care about. >>> >>> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >>> never lost one of these >>> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have >> been >>> working with raid >>> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >>> drives but I have never lost >>> two drives at the same time. >>> >>> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the >> probability of >>> two drive failures. In >>> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >>> given single drive over 5 >>> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >>> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >>> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >>> >>> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance >> that >>> I will have to re-rip 200 >>> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra >> money >>> to preventing this >>> possibility. >>> >>> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >>> numbers might cause one to come >>> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >>> costs", it is worth it to me. >>> >>> It is not worth it to me. >>> >>> Look at Unraid. >>> >>> http://lime-technology.com/ >>> >>> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider >> it >>> for a specific class of >>> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems >> like a >>> good compromise. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. >> Yeah >>>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>>> Besides >>>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>>> >>>> Mike... >>>> >>>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music >> collection. >>>>> I >>>>> currently have no >>>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one >> disk. >>>>> With Unraid I >>>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>>> recover. >>>>> If I do lose it I just >>>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>>> >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jedi at charm.net Thu Jul 22 11:28:43 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:28:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <1310.24.35.23.165.1279816123.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> And it is probrably running embedded Linux. Also wait until the 6TB HD come out--oh my. Mike... > A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for > ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte > drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored > 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr > Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience > > Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each > and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD > shows > and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I > have > whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying > the > Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is > important > to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media > server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. > > Mike... > >> >How much is your time worth? >> >> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >> >> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive > (twice >> the drives), plus the >> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply > (twice >> the disk current - 12v), >> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) > plus >> the cost of a case big >> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >> >> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >> system cost and I understand >> the difference. >> >> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is > the >> cost of my time to rip 200 >> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >> >> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >> cost accumulated over time. >> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >> actual cost of 200 minutes to >> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because > many >> of them are for my kids who >> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to > mention >> the disks I ripped that I >> just don't care about. >> >> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >> never lost one of these >> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have > been >> working with raid >> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >> drives but I have never lost >> two drives at the same time. >> >> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the > probability of >> two drive failures. In >> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >> given single drive over 5 >> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >> >> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance > that >> I will have to re-rip 200 >> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra > money >> to preventing this >> possibility. >> >> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >> numbers might cause one to come >> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >> costs", it is worth it to me. >> >> It is not worth it to me. >> >> Look at Unraid. >> >> http://lime-technology.com/ >> >> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider > it >> for a specific class of >> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems > like a >> good compromise. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. > Yeah >>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>> Besides >>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music > collection. >>>> I >>>> currently have no >>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one > disk. >>>> With Unraid I >>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>> recover. >>>> If I do lose it I just >>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the > person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI > Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact > the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic > or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information > by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jedi at charm.net Thu Jul 22 11:30:55 2010 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <4C4738EE.7000304@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4738EE.7000304@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1314.24.35.23.165.1279816255.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> If the media content is not reproducible then it is a no brainer. Mike... > I have to question whether the overhead of taping / cutting commercials > doesn't reduce your savings > quite a bit. As you asked me, how much time and how do you value your > time. > > But that is a whole nother discussion. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Michael Bahr wrote: >> Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each >> and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD >> shows >> and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I >> have >> whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying >> the >> Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is >> important >> to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media >> server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. >> >> Mike... >> >>> >How much is your time worth? >>> >>> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >>> >>> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive >>> (twice >>> the drives), plus the >>> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply (twice >>> the disk current - 12v), >>> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) >>> plus >>> the cost of a case big >>> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >>> >>> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >>> system cost and I understand >>> the difference. >>> >>> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is >>> the >>> cost of my time to rip 200 >>> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >>> >>> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >>> cost accumulated over time. >>> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >>> actual cost of 200 minutes to >>> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because >>> many >>> of them are for my kids who >>> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to mention >>> the disks I ripped that I >>> just don't care about. >>> >>> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >>> never lost one of these >>> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have >>> been >>> working with raid >>> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >>> drives but I have never lost >>> two drives at the same time. >>> >>> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the probability >>> of >>> two drive failures. In >>> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >>> given single drive over 5 >>> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >>> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >>> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >>> >>> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance >>> that >>> I will have to re-rip 200 >>> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra >>> money >>> to preventing this >>> possibility. >>> >>> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >>> numbers might cause one to come >>> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >>> costs", it is worth it to me. >>> >>> It is not worth it to me. >>> >>> Look at Unraid. >>> >>> http://lime-technology.com/ >>> >>> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider >>> it >>> for a specific class of >>> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems like >>> a >>> good compromise. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. >>>> Yeah >>>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>>> Besides >>>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>>> >>>> Mike... >>>> >>>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music >>>>> collection. >>>>> I >>>>> currently have no >>>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one >>>>> disk. >>>>> With Unraid I >>>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>>> recover. >>>>> If I do lose it I just >>>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>>> >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 22 12:52:16 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:52:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <1314.24.35.23.165.1279816255.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com> <2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4738EE.7000304@colbyconsulting.com> <1314.24.35.23.165.1279816255.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C488550.1010008@colbyconsulting.com> Well of course. OTOH I thought it was "to avoid buying the blue ray disks from the publisher". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > If the media content is not reproducible then it is a no brainer. > > Mike... > >> I have to question whether the overhead of taping / cutting commercials >> doesn't reduce your savings >> quite a bit. As you asked me, how much time and how do you value your >> time. >> >> But that is a whole nother discussion. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Michael Bahr wrote: >>> Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each >>> and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD >>> shows >>> and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I >>> have >>> whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying >>> the >>> Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is >>> important >>> to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media >>> server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> >How much is your time worth? >>>> >>>> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >>>> >>>> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive >>>> (twice >>>> the drives), plus the >>>> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply (twice >>>> the disk current - 12v), >>>> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) >>>> plus >>>> the cost of a case big >>>> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >>>> >>>> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >>>> system cost and I understand >>>> the difference. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is >>>> the >>>> cost of my time to rip 200 >>>> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >>>> >>>> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >>>> cost accumulated over time. >>>> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >>>> actual cost of 200 minutes to >>>> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because >>>> many >>>> of them are for my kids who >>>> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to mention >>>> the disks I ripped that I >>>> just don't care about. >>>> >>>> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >>>> never lost one of these >>>> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have >>>> been >>>> working with raid >>>> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >>>> drives but I have never lost >>>> two drives at the same time. >>>> >>>> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the probability >>>> of >>>> two drive failures. In >>>> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >>>> given single drive over 5 >>>> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >>>> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >>>> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >>>> >>>> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance >>>> that >>>> I will have to re-rip 200 >>>> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra >>>> money >>>> to preventing this >>>> possibility. >>>> >>>> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >>>> numbers might cause one to come >>>> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >>>> costs", it is worth it to me. >>>> >>>> It is not worth it to me. >>>> >>>> Look at Unraid. >>>> >>>> http://lime-technology.com/ >>>> >>>> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider >>>> it >>>> for a specific class of >>>> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems like >>>> a >>>> good compromise. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. >>>>> Yeah >>>>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>>>> Besides >>>>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>>>> >>>>> Mike... >>>>> >>>>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music >>>>>> collection. >>>>>> I >>>>>> currently have no >>>>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one >>>>>> disk. >>>>>> With Unraid I >>>>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>>>> recover. >>>>>> If I do lose it I just >>>>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 22 12:54:42 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:54:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <1310.24.35.23.165.1279816123.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <1310.24.35.23.165.1279816123.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C4885E2.1050304@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, the 2 gig drives are dropping in price (finally). I haven't even seen rumors of larger than that, though they will arrive some day of course. In the end, data always exceeds storage so a single drive solution seems to me to be less than useful. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > And it is probrably running embedded Linux. > > Also wait until the 6TB HD come out--oh my. > > Mike... > >> A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for >> ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte >> drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored >> 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr >> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience >> >> Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each >> and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD >> shows >> and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I >> have >> whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying >> the >> Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is >> important >> to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media >> server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. >> >> Mike... >> >>> >How much is your time worth? >>> >>> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >>> >>> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive >> (twice >>> the drives), plus the >>> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply >> (twice >>> the disk current - 12v), >>> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) >> plus >>> the cost of a case big >>> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >>> >>> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >>> system cost and I understand >>> the difference. >>> >>> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is >> the >>> cost of my time to rip 200 >>> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >>> >>> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >>> cost accumulated over time. >>> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >>> actual cost of 200 minutes to >>> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because >> many >>> of them are for my kids who >>> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to >> mention >>> the disks I ripped that I >>> just don't care about. >>> >>> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >>> never lost one of these >>> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have >> been >>> working with raid >>> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >>> drives but I have never lost >>> two drives at the same time. >>> >>> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the >> probability of >>> two drive failures. In >>> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >>> given single drive over 5 >>> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >>> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >>> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >>> >>> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance >> that >>> I will have to re-rip 200 >>> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra >> money >>> to preventing this >>> possibility. >>> >>> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >>> numbers might cause one to come >>> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >>> costs", it is worth it to me. >>> >>> It is not worth it to me. >>> >>> Look at Unraid. >>> >>> http://lime-technology.com/ >>> >>> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider >> it >>> for a specific class of >>> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems >> like a >>> good compromise. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> >>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. >> Yeah >>>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>>> Besides >>>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>>> >>>> Mike... >>>> >>>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music >> collection. >>>>> I >>>>> currently have no >>>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one >> disk. >>>>> With Unraid I >>>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>>> recover. >>>>> If I do lose it I just >>>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>>> >>>>> John W. Colby >>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >> person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >> Business >> Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >> the sender >> immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic >> or hard copy. >> You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >> dissemination, >> or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >> by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 22 12:55:41 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:55:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <1308.24.35.23.165.1279816035.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com> <3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C47B178.60300@colbyconsulting.com> <1308.24.35.23.165.1279816035.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4C48861D.4090006@colbyconsulting.com> Well... I already have three TB drives, two full, one half full. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Michael Bahr wrote: > Yeah but we are not running a server farm. :-P > > Mike... > >> Or... for 400$ plus parts I already have: >> >> MB (6 sata ports) Have it >> Processor Have it >> Memory Have it >> PS Have it >> (3) 1T drives Have it (movies installed) >> (7) 640G drives Have it >> >> Plus: >> >> (1) 4 port PCI Express card $90 >> (1) 16 drive unraid license $119 >> (1) 1TB parity drive $100 >> >> Case $90 >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811219020&cm_re=4u_rackmount_case-_-11-219-020-_-Product >> >> Total: $400 for for ~7 terabytes usable. >> >> ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> >> Drew Wutka wrote: >>> A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for >>> ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte >>> drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored >>> 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. >>> >>> Drew >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:42 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience >>> >>> Well, I can see your point that only ripping DVD's takes 2 minutes each >>> and you do not need them anymore. But for me I record OTA/cable HD >>> shows >>> and uncut movies and cut out the commercials and archive them. Now I >>> have >>> whole seasons worth of shows and movies. I save money buy not buying >>> the >>> Blu-Ray disks ($30-$60 for each season or movie). So yes it is >>> important >>> to me to have a backup as these are not reproducible. A seperate media >>> server setup as raid 1 does fit my needs. >>> >>> Mike... >>> >>>> >How much is your time worth? >>>> >>>> This is a classic case of insufficient analysis... >>>> >>>> The cost is not the cost of the drive. It is the cost of the drive >>> (twice >>>> the drives), plus the >>>> cost of the SATA ports (twice) plus the cost of the power supply >>> (twice >>>> the disk current - 12v), >>>> plus the cost of electricity to run the disks (twice the electricity) >>> plus >>>> the cost of a case big >>>> enough to handle enough drives (twice as large disk cage) plus... >>>> >>>> Of course all my "twices" are on a "per disk used" basis, not a total >>>> system cost and I understand >>>> the difference. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, my time isn't the cost of my time to rip 200 dvds, it is >>> the >>>> cost of my time to rip 200 >>>> dvds divided by the probability of losing 2 disks at the same time. >>>> >>>> I ripped my drives as I wanted to watch them, so it was an incremental >>>> cost accumulated over time. >>>> The actual time is about 2 minutes per dvd. 200 dvds per drive is an >>>> actual cost of 200 minutes to >>>> fill a drive. Would I actually rerip all of the disks? No because >>> many >>>> of them are for my kids who >>>> are now older and don't even watch those disks any more, not to >>> mention >>>> the disks I ripped that I >>>> just don't care about. >>>> >>>> HOWEVER... In the two years that I have been using the system, I have >>>> never lost one of these >>>> drives. Thus my time to "do it over again" is zero (so far). I have >>> been >>>> working with raid >>>> extensively for about 5 years, and in those 5 years I have lost single >>>> drives but I have never lost >>>> two drives at the same time. >>>> >>>> I am sure that there are numbers out there that discuss the >>> probability of >>>> two drive failures. In >>>> fact IIRC from that paper by google, the probability of failure of any >>>> given single drive over 5 >>>> years was about 14%? The probability of two failures (my simple math) >>>> would be .14 * .14 = .0196 or >>>> ~ 2%. That is for two failures, NOT two SIMULTANEOUS failures. >>>> >>>> All of this matters if the cost is catastrophic. Facing a 2% chance >>> that >>>> I will have to re-rip 200 >>>> dvds in any given 5 year period, I am unwilling to commit the extra >>> money >>>> to preventing this >>>> possibility. >>>> >>>> This whole discussion does point out that an analysis of the actual >>>> numbers might cause one to come >>>> to a different conclusion. And who knows, you might decide "screw the >>>> costs", it is worth it to me. >>>> >>>> It is not worth it to me. >>>> >>>> Look at Unraid. >>>> >>>> http://lime-technology.com/ >>>> >>>> I am not trying to sell anyone on unRaid, I am simply saying consider >>> it >>>> for a specific class of >>>> redundancy needs. For this level of redundancy need, unRaid seems >>> like a >>>> good compromise. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>>> >>>> Michael Bahr wrote: >>>>> John, for your media collections you really should go only Raid 1. >>> Yeah >>>>> if you lose the HD you can re-do everything but who has the time? >>>>> Besides >>>>> 2TB HD's are ~<$150 or so. How much is your time worth? >>>>> >>>>> Mike... >>>>> >>>>>> I am about to build an UnRaid for my massive video / music >>> collection. >>>>>> I >>>>>> currently have no >>>>>> protection on that so if I lose a disk I lose all of that on one >>> disk. >>>>>> With Unraid I >>>>>> would have "raid 5 like" >>>>>> storage so that in the event of single drive failure I can still >>>>>> recover. >>>>>> If I do lose it I just >>>>>> re-rip. Not the end of the world but not something I want to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> John W. Colby >>>>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> -- >>>> AccessD mailing list >>>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Jul 23 12:22:33 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:22:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Ya gotta laugh Message-ID: <4C49CFD9.90200@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?Tpk=shellshocker Notice - an Intel ATOM CPU machine and EXTREME PERFORMANCE memory. Hmm... That will turn it into a smokin' machine! ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Jul 23 13:31:26 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:31:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Ya gotta laugh In-Reply-To: <4C49CFD9.90200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C49CFD9.90200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Yeah, and one of the reviews said "I like the way the disc drawer pops open" and "Really made me feel like a pro system builder" So, how many are you going to buy? Doug On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > > http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?Tpk=shellshocker > > Notice - an Intel ATOM CPU machine and EXTREME PERFORMANCE memory. Hmm... > > That will turn it into a smokin' machine! > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 24 04:48:56 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 05:48:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Ya gotta laugh In-Reply-To: References: <4C49CFD9.90200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C4AB708.2090202@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, I didn't even read the reviews. I have no plans to buy any of them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Doug Steele wrote: > Yeah, and one of the reviews said > > "I like the way the disc drawer pops open" > and > "Really made me feel like a pro system builder" > > So, how many are you going to buy? > > Doug > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:22 AM, jwcolby wrote: > >> >> http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?Tpk=shellshocker >> >> Notice - an Intel ATOM CPU machine and EXTREME PERFORMANCE memory. Hmm... >> >> That will turn it into a smokin' machine! >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Jul 24 08:49:54 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:49:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Friday Humor Message-ID: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com> I'll take 100. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGallery.aspx?CurImage=22-332-051-S01&SCList=22-332-051-S01&S7ImageFlag=2&Item=N82E16822332051&Depa=0&WaterMark=0&Description=HP%20Midline%20454146-B21%201TB%207200%20RPM%20SATA%203.0Gb%2fs%203.5%22%20Internal%20Hard%20Drive%20-Retail OK, I'll just go buy an entire system including drives for the price of one of these. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jul 24 11:29:03 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 09:29:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Uses for iPasa In-Reply-To: <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: This link was sent to me and is meant to give you another reason to buy an iPad: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/shiinaneko/20100715/1279252548 That is what is needed; an iDish or iPlate. Jim From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jul 24 13:08:44 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:08:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access In-Reply-To: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi All: I have been using PDFCreator extensively with MS Access and it has been a solid and relieable app for creating PDF files. One particular client has a coloured JPG graphic header file which is attached to all their Access reports. All their reports print just fine except for one. There is no error but when this report is printed within the program the colour JPG header is conveted to monochrome.(?) If the report is printed in direct manual mode the report retains its colour... the problem only shows itself when printed within the program. It does not matter what OS is running XP/Vista/Windows7, or memory from 1GB to 8GB of RAM, or how many pages from 1 to 6 but there is one difference though. The report has a subreport. If the subreport is removed, back comes the colour. I have left a message on the PDFCreator forum but so far no responses but as the problem is a MS Access one if the question can be answered it would be here. TIA Jim From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jul 24 13:24:53 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 04:24:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access In-Reply-To: References: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4C4B2FF5.26415.4FC70D3C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My first guess would be that the sub-report was formatted to print in B&W and that is overriding the settings for the main report (since it is the first part built by Access.) -- Stuart On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > I have been using PDFCreator extensively with MS Access and it has > been a solid and relieable app for creating PDF files. > > One particular client has a coloured JPG graphic header file which is > attached to all their Access reports. All their reports print just > fine except for one. There is no error but when this report is printed > within the program the colour JPG header is conveted to monochrome.(?) > > > If the report is printed in direct manual mode the report retains its > colour... the problem only shows itself when printed within the > program. It does not matter what OS is running XP/Vista/Windows7, or > memory from 1GB to 8GB of RAM, or how many pages from 1 to 6 but there > is one difference though. > > The report has a subreport. If the subreport is removed, back comes > the colour. I have left a message on the PDFCreator forum but so far > no responses but as the problem is a MS Access one if the question can > be answered it would be here. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jul 24 13:58:07 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:58:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access In-Reply-To: <4C4B2FF5.26415.4FC70D3C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4B2FF5.26415.4FC70D3C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6036087B10F54B3BBC10BFA87B7C0285@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: I did not know that Access reports could be set to black & white? Where is this setting made? TIA Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access My first guess would be that the sub-report was formatted to print in B&W and that is overriding the settings for the main report (since it is the first part built by Access.) -- Stuart On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > I have been using PDFCreator extensively with MS Access and it has > been a solid and relieable app for creating PDF files. > > One particular client has a coloured JPG graphic header file which is > attached to all their Access reports. All their reports print just > fine except for one. There is no error but when this report is printed > within the program the colour JPG header is conveted to monochrome.(?) > > > If the report is printed in direct manual mode the report retains its > colour... the problem only shows itself when printed within the > program. It does not matter what OS is running XP/Vista/Windows7, or > memory from 1GB to 8GB of RAM, or how many pages from 1 to 6 but there > is one difference though. > > The report has a subreport. If the subreport is removed, back comes > the colour. I have left a message on the PDFCreator forum but so far > no responses but as the problem is a MS Access one if the question can > be answered it would be here. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From brad.marks1 at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 14:00:03 2010 From: brad.marks1 at gmail.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:00:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access Message-ID: All, I suspect that I have quite a different perspective than most of you regarding Access. After many years of working in the IBM mainframe environment, I now find myself working for a small firm. We have several PC-based purchased products and we are using Access to build interfaces and to provide an easy way to get at data that in the past was very difficult to get at. I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do with it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be done that cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for internal use only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. Over the past couple months, there have been some comments in this forum regarding Access and its future. Some people have said that Access is declining in use and is becoming a niche product. I would like to get some more perspective on this issue. Again, I am coming from a non-Microsoft environment, so I do not know the history, evolution, direction, and future of the Microsoft products. If not Access for the small business environment, then what? Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace Access? If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than Access? If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful and complicated product? If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking ourselves 5 years from now? These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack as many years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit feeble-minded :-) Thanks in advance for your ideas and perspectives on this topic. Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 17:10:20 2010 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 15:10:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access References: Message-ID: <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p> > I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do with > it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be done that > cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for internal use > only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. ========Access 2010 has a good web support. There are limitations, but it is much easier to create a web-based Access database now. > If not Access for the small business environment, then what? ========Microsoft seems to push small business toward the Express suite. > > Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace Access? ========I don't know why. Some developers are working wtih VS, but because they prefer it, I think. > > If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than > Access? ========There's always the Express suite -- free, and while not the same, is a good deal. Personally, I find VB Express a royal pia... ;) > > If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful and > complicated product? ========No, but there are other considerations. > > If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking > ourselves 5 years from now? ========I don't know why. Even if you use Access, in 5 years, it's just as likely the app will be completely obsolete as still getting the job done. > > These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack as > many > years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit feeble-minded :-) ========Not dumb questions! I've been hearing this same lament since 1994 (about) when I first took on Access. If I thought Access was the best tool for the job, at the time, it's what I'd use. Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jul 24 14:20:09 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 05:20:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access In-Reply-To: <6036087B10F54B3BBC10BFA87B7C0285@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com>, <4C4B2FF5.26415.4FC70D3C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <6036087B10F54B3BBC10BFA87B7C0285@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4C4B3CE9.3220.4FF9A7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> File, Page Setup, Page - Use a specific printer. In the selection box, select PDFCreator, click on Properties and select Black and White. -- Stuart On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:58, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I did not know that Access reports could be set to black & white? > Where is this setting made? > > TIA > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:25 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with > Access > > My first guess would be that the sub-report was formatted to print > in B&W and that is overriding the settings for the main report (since > it is the first part built by Access.) > > > -- > Stuart > > > On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi All: > > > > I have been using PDFCreator extensively with MS Access and it has > > been a solid and relieable app for creating PDF files. > > > > One particular client has a coloured JPG graphic header file which > > is attached to all their Access reports. All their reports print > > just fine except for one. There is no error but when this report is > > printed within the program the colour JPG header is conveted to > > monochrome.(?) > > > > > > If the report is printed in direct manual mode the report retains > > its colour... the problem only shows itself when printed within the > > program. It does not matter what OS is running XP/Vista/Windows7, or > > memory from 1GB to 8GB of RAM, or how many pages from 1 to 6 but > > there is one difference though. > > > > The report has a subreport. If the subreport is removed, back comes > > the colour. I have left a message on the PDFCreator forum but so far > > no responses but as the problem is a MS Access one if the question > > can be answered it would be here. > > > > TIA > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Jul 24 14:46:35 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:46:35 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5617D4F68AA24D5FAD1EB00115F25CA7@nant> Hi Brad -- <<< If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking ourselves 5 years from now? >>> If your subject area are desktop business application for SOHO, and it will not change in 5 years then you'll be OK even with MS Access 2003 I suppose... If you plan to scale your apps to the Web/"clouds" then you'll soon find "kicking yourself ITA" with MS Access/VBA... Visual Studio Express (free) + MS SQL Server Express (free) + MS SQL Server Express Managenement Studio (free) + MS Business Intelligence Studio (free) would be not so easy to start with as with MS Access but you'll not have scaling problems in long run, well, you'll have to be a good programmer to not have such problems... <<< These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack as many years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit feeble-minded :-) >>> No problem. I have made running quite a few IBM360/370 "jobs" by using JCL and punch cards (:)), and I have made some COBOL programming, as well as PL/I and Fortran, even RPG(?!), and a lot of IBM360/370 macro-assembler (what a powerful programming/machine language! :)) etc. etc. - programming VB.NET/C# and MS SQL (T-SQL) is easier IMO than programming COBOL - and VB.NET/C# code would be so much shorter than equivalent COBOL one... Go with Visual Studio (Express) + C# - and you'll never look back IMO... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:00 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access All, I suspect that I have quite a different perspective than most of you regarding Access. After many years of working in the IBM mainframe environment, I now find myself working for a small firm. We have several PC-based purchased products and we are using Access to build interfaces and to provide an easy way to get at data that in the past was very difficult to get at. I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do with it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be done that cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for internal use only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. Over the past couple months, there have been some comments in this forum regarding Access and its future. Some people have said that Access is declining in use and is becoming a niche product. I would like to get some more perspective on this issue. Again, I am coming from a non-Microsoft environment, so I do not know the history, evolution, direction, and future of the Microsoft products. If not Access for the small business environment, then what? Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace Access? If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than Access? If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful and complicated product? If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking ourselves 5 years from now? These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack as many years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit feeble-minded :-) Thanks in advance for your ideas and perspectives on this topic. Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sat Jul 24 15:49:06 2010 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:49:06 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p> References: <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p> Message-ID: <0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> -------------------------------------------------- From: "Susan Harkins" Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:10 AM > ========Not dumb questions! I've been hearing this same lament since 1994 > (about) when I first took on Access. If I thought Access was the best tool > for the job, at the time, it's what I'd use. I absolutely agree. The rumours that Access is on the way out, in some way or another, have been so constant over the last 15 years that they have become almost legendary. These rumours and other anti-Access blather are just as false now as they were before. In the last few years, Microsoft has invested very heavily in moving Access forward, and this is surely not done for a dying product. Access isn't going away anywhere anytime soon, and I believe has a great and exciting future. It isn't the best tool for every job, of course. But it is, and will continue to be, the best tool for a lot of jobs, and with the advent of web apps, it is now the best tool for an even wider range of jobs than it was previously. Regards Steve From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Jul 24 16:09:46 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 14:09:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access In-Reply-To: <4C4B3CE9.3220.4FF9A7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4B2FF5.26415.4FC70D3C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6036087B10F54B3BBC10BFA87B7C0285@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C4B3CE9.3220.4FF9A7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart: Thanks for the tip...I just ran into a mental block. I did finally solve the problem by adding the following line after setting the PDFCreator object but before running the print report command: Application.Printer.ColorMode = acPRCMColor ...and that seems to solve the problem. Thanks again Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access File, Page Setup, Page - Use a specific printer. In the selection box, select PDFCreator, click on Properties and select Black and White. -- Stuart On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:58, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I did not know that Access reports could be set to black & white? > Where is this setting made? > > TIA > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:25 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with > Access > > My first guess would be that the sub-report was formatted to print > in B&W and that is overriding the settings for the main report (since > it is the first part built by Access.) > > > -- > Stuart > > > On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi All: > > > > I have been using PDFCreator extensively with MS Access and it has > > been a solid and relieable app for creating PDF files. > > > > One particular client has a coloured JPG graphic header file which > > is attached to all their Access reports. All their reports print > > just fine except for one. There is no error but when this report is > > printed within the program the colour JPG header is conveted to > > monochrome.(?) > > > > > > If the report is printed in direct manual mode the report retains > > its colour... the problem only shows itself when printed within the > > program. It does not matter what OS is running XP/Vista/Windows7, or > > memory from 1GB to 8GB of RAM, or how many pages from 1 to 6 but > > there is one difference though. > > > > The report has a subreport. If the subreport is removed, back comes > > the colour. I have left a message on the PDFCreator forum but so far > > no responses but as the problem is a MS Access one if the question > > can be answered it would be here. > > > > TIA > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jul 24 18:33:42 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:33:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> References: , <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p>, <0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> Message-ID: <4C4B7856.23061.50E1C894@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Steve has summed up my feeling as well. There weill be a place for Access for a long time yet For small task, it creates great stand-alone application and with a(n) SQL Server BE, it's by far the best Rapid Application Development environment/Report Generator system out there. Once you really get your head around VBA and start incorporating API calls and With Events, there is almost nothing in the business application area that you can't do with it. (Of course there are times when you can give it a bit of help by rolling your own "glue applications " and DLLs in PowerBasic ) I hate A2007 with a passion, but I'm actually looking forward to getting my teeth into A2010 - there are apparently a few goodies in their that I will can use. Fortunately nearly all of my major clients are skipping 2007. -- Stuart On 25 Jul 2010 at 8:49, Steve Schapel wrote: > > I absolutely agree. The rumours that Access is on the way out, in > some way or another, have been so constant over the last 15 years that > they have become almost legendary. These rumours and other > anti-Access blather are just as false now as they were before. In the > last few years, Microsoft has invested very heavily in moving Access > forward, and this is surely not done for a dying product. Access > isn't going away anywhere anytime soon, and I believe has a great and > exciting future. It isn't the best tool for every job, of course. > But it is, and will continue to be, the best tool for a lot of jobs, > and with the advent of web apps, it is now the best tool for an even > wider range of jobs than it was previously. > From ssharkins at gmail.com Sat Jul 24 21:40:42 2010 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:40:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access References: , <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p>, <0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> <4C4B7856.23061.50E1C894@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <7202FAC53AC74E90B8CE562BBCDCAF4D@salvationomc4p> > > I hate A2007 with a passion, but I'm actually looking forward to getting > my teeth into A2010 - > there are apparently a few goodies in their that I will can use. > Fortunately nearly all of my > major clients are skipping 2007. ========I like 2010 much better, but maybe I've just had enough time to adjust! ;) Susan H From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sat Jul 24 19:19:26 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:19:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4B830E.30893.510BA59B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A couple of relevant comments that I have just come across on LinkedIn (Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN)) Mark Edwards o I don't know how passionately anyone else feels about Access, but when I discovered how to bring what I learned in enterprise development to the Access/VBA platform, I discovered a whole, new, powerful development environment that I like to refer to as a "Office Studio powered by Extreme VBA". When I get asked to go to a client for an Access contract, they're expecting the usual, wizard, builder, macro, querydef object stuff that most folks usually do that has limited capabilities. Once they see what else I can do with it, I usually end up in extended engagements that have me getting passed around from department-to-department so everyone can get that custome software app they have always wanted (my last 6-month contract lasted 2.5 years!). I've even had other contractor companies working for the same company that I'm working for ask me to help them with their contract work because they don't have anyone who can do what I do (just don't let their Access people feel inferior - maintain good relationships). Feel free to visit my company website (www.vbaofficesolutions.com) for a more colorful explanation of "Extreme VBA". and Armen Stein o I agree with both Marks above. Access has been under-appreciated as a business software development environment, but I think maybe it's changing. I'm finding that companies are realizing that they need to get something done, and that a professionally-written Access application (especially with a SQL Server back-end) fits the bill perfectly. And I'm also seeing that we're getting less pushback from "IT snobs" that once insisted that Access wasn't serious enough. Maybe the tougher economy is making people more realistic about real-world value in their systems development. Regarding Mark E.'s comments about what Access actually is: In a panel I participated in at the last TechEd, I described Access as a "development environment that comes with a free database in the box". Here's a link to the video: http://mfile.akamai.com/14853/wmv/microsofttec.download.akamai.com/14853/TechEdOnlin e/Videos/08_NA_dev_TEOPanel_05_low.asx It's this powerful, rapid development environment that gives Access its value. We do a lot of projects using both Access and ASP.NET. Don't get me wrong, ASP.NET has its place when an app needs to be deployed publically. But we find that the same functionality takes several times more effort than Access/SQL Server apps. That's hard to argue with. On 24 Jul 2010 at 14:00, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I suspect that I have quite a different perspective than most of you > regarding Access. After many years of working in the IBM mainframe > environment, I now find myself working for a small firm. We have > several PC-based purchased products and we are using Access to build > interfaces and to provide an easy way to get at data that in the past > was very difficult to get at. > > I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do > with it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be > done that cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for > internal use only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. > > Over the past couple months, there have been some comments in this > forum regarding Access and its future. Some people have said that > Access is declining in use and is becoming a niche product. I would > like to get some more perspective on this issue. Again, I am coming > from a non-Microsoft environment, so I do not know the history, > evolution, direction, and future of the Microsoft products. > > If not Access for the small business environment, then what? > > Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace > Access? > > If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than > Access? > > If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful > and complicated product? > > If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking > ourselves 5 years from now? > > These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack > as many years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit > feeble-minded :-) > > Thanks in advance for your ideas and perspectives on this topic. > > Brad > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 00:05:41 2010 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:05:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4B830E.30893.510BA59B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4C4B830E.30893.510BA59B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Interesting - I was totally unaware of the LinkedIn Access group. I've applied to join... Thanks, Doug On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 5:19 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A couple of relevant comments that I have just come across on LinkedIn > (Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN)) > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Jul 25 03:19:50 2010 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:19:50 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4B830E.30893.510BA59B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4C4B830E.30893.510BA59B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< But we find that the same functionality takes several times more effort than Access/SQL Server apps >>> That's one company experience - mine is different - and you know I'm in "advanced/extreme" MS Access/VBA programming league since the end of 90-ies - I mean I do everyday see the difference - MS Access VBA low vs. VB.NET/C# high productivity etc.... <<< Maybe the tougher economy is making people more realistic about real-world value in their systems development. >>> Yes, there many good MS Access VBA/VB6 developers developed many good applications but there are even more who produce "real crap" - so much waste of time and other resources - with VB.NET/C# the amount of "crappy software" is considerably less - and in the case one get a task to "clean-up the crap" it can be done much quicker using VB.NET/C# apps than with MS Access/VBA/VB6 apps - in the latter case whole rewrite is often needed... MS Access VBA programming has got missed the whole mainstream trend of the modern programming - Test Driven Development, and it's (happily) missing now multi-threaded application development... You know I'm not an "IT snob" - I'm making my customer software development for living and my customers are small companies - unfortunately IMO MS Access is getting to the niche programming (rather large niche probably) but with MS Access VBA one is rapidly get out of mainstream of modern business software development, and it will be not so easy to get back on that mainstream - the more you get "spoiled" with MS Access VBA... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 4:19 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access A couple of relevant comments that I have just come across on LinkedIn (Professional Microsoft Access Developers' Network (PMADN)) Mark Edwards o I don't know how passionately anyone else feels about Access, but when I discovered how to bring what I learned in enterprise development to the Access/VBA platform, I discovered a whole, new, powerful development environment that I like to refer to as a "Office Studio powered by Extreme VBA". When I get asked to go to a client for an Access contract, they're expecting the usual, wizard, builder, macro, querydef object stuff that most folks usually do that has limited capabilities. Once they see what else I can do with it, I usually end up in extended engagements that have me getting passed around from department-to-department so everyone can get that custome software app they have always wanted (my last 6-month contract lasted 2.5 years!). I've even had other contractor companies working for the same company that I'm working for ask me to help them with their contract work because they don't have anyone who can do what I do (just don't let their Access people feel inferior - maintain good relationships). Feel free to visit my company website (www.vbaofficesolutions.com) for a more colorful explanation of "Extreme VBA". and Armen Stein o I agree with both Marks above. Access has been under-appreciated as a business software development environment, but I think maybe it's changing. I'm finding that companies are realizing that they need to get something done, and that a professionally-written Access application (especially with a SQL Server back-end) fits the bill perfectly. And I'm also seeing that we're getting less pushback from "IT snobs" that once insisted that Access wasn't serious enough. Maybe the tougher economy is making people more realistic about real-world value in their systems development. Regarding Mark E.'s comments about what Access actually is: In a panel I participated in at the last TechEd, I described Access as a "development environment that comes with a free database in the box". Here's a link to the video: http://mfile.akamai.com/14853/wmv/microsofttec.download.akamai.com/14853/Tec hEdOnlin e/Videos/08_NA_dev_TEOPanel_05_low.asx It's this powerful, rapid development environment that gives Access its value. We do a lot of projects using both Access and ASP.NET. Don't get me wrong, ASP.NET has its place when an app needs to be deployed publically. But we find that the same functionality takes several times more effort than Access/SQL Server apps. That's hard to argue with. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Jul 25 12:28:42 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:28:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> References: <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p> <0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> Message-ID: Steve, We all know you're an Access fan. I have been too, since I preordered version 1.0. That doesn't blind me to the fact that Microsoft, not developers, has niched Access into a "power user" slot. Everyone who has been on this list for a while has made Access stand up and do tricks. We KNOW what it can do, but MS has ignored our pleas on behalf of Access since forever. That is why the "legend" of Access's demise persists. Access will be around, but it gets cosmetic treatments not true improvements. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Steve Schapel wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Susan Harkins" > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 10:10 AM > >> ========Not dumb questions! I've been hearing this same lament since 1994 >> (about) when I first took on Access. If I thought Access was the best tool >> for the job, at the time, it's what I'd use. > > I absolutely agree. ?The rumours that Access is on the way out, in some way > or another, have been so constant over the last 15 years that they have > become almost legendary. ?These rumours and other anti-Access blather are > just as false now as they were before. ?In the last few years, Microsoft has > invested very heavily in moving Access forward, and this is surely not done > for a dying product. ?Access isn't going away anywhere anytime soon, and I > believe has a great and exciting future. ?It isn't the best tool for every > job, of course. ?But it is, and will continue to be, the best tool for a lot > of jobs, and with the advent of web apps, it is now the best tool for an > even wider range of jobs than it was previously. > > Regards > Steve > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jul 25 14:01:32 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:01:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C4C8A0C.3010901@colbyconsulting.com> Brad, I have been developing in Access since 1994. I love it up through version 2003. 2007 I don't much like. I am moving on to C# and .Net. The reason mostly has to do with the power of the platform. Over 15 years of working with Access I have seen about ONE major upgrade, from 97 to 2K / XP / 2003. That involved migrating Access to the code editor, and giving us ADO. In terms of actual additions to the languages, after classes were added, event handling and ADO, pretty much nothing. So as a developer I have not been given any major new tools. Now, look at .Net. It started in the late 90s, and has been constantly improved. C# and the .Net framework is probably the most powerful environment I have ever seen, and EVERY upgrade, major new capabilities are added to it. Not silly tool bars, things like LinQ. To see the modern programming constructs C# gives us look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_%28programming_language%29 In this, look at what was added every version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework Now, go look at what was added in Access 2003, 2007 and now 2010. Access is a good tool. It could have been a great tool, but MS just isn't spending the resources to make it great. Access in 2010 is not significantly different that it was in 2002. What did Stuart say... (Of course there are times when you can give it a bit of help by rolling your own "glue applications " and DLLs in PowerBasic ) Or... you could just learn .Net. Having said all of that, Access is a premier reporting tool. It will attach to just about anything with just a few clicks, and it's reporting abilities are pretty darned good. And if you just need a "little app" to do some "little thing" then it is an absolutely awesome tool. I wouldn't touch it today for starting a large enterprise application. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I suspect that I have quite a different perspective than most of you > regarding Access. After many years of working in the IBM mainframe > environment, I now find myself working for a small firm. We have several > PC-based purchased products and we are using Access to build interfaces and > to provide an easy way to get at data that in the past was very difficult to > get at. > > I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do with > it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be done that > cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for internal use > only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. > > Over the past couple months, there have been some comments in this forum > regarding Access and its future. Some people have said that Access is > declining in use and is becoming a niche product. I would like to get some > more perspective on this issue. Again, I am coming from a non-Microsoft > environment, so I do not know the history, evolution, direction, and future > of the Microsoft products. > > If not Access for the small business environment, then what? > > Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace Access? > > If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than Access? > > If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful and > complicated product? > > If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking > ourselves 5 years from now? > > These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack as many > years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit feeble-minded :-) > > Thanks in advance for your ideas and perspectives on this topic. > > Brad From edzedz at comcast.net Sun Jul 25 14:46:48 2010 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:46:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4C8A0C.3010901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002501cb2c32$1f4f2aa0$5bdea8c0@edz1> I find Access to be a very useful tool. It is everything the PDP-11 RSTS/E ever wanted to be. How is that for ancient. Microsoft has its own agenda to enhance its income, which is what corporations do. It is neither good, or bad, though it may make things hard on people who use some of their products. I have sat in meetings with some Microsoft folks, years ago, and they said they want a bigger peace of the development action. Access could compete with some of their other products or future plans. Maybe a bunch of us should look at Access 2000, or 2003, see what it does and create a spec., to create something like Access, but in the open source environment. Sort of like the start of the IBM PC clones from the 1980s and 1990s. It would be a huge undertaking. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access Brad, I have been developing in Access since 1994. I love it up through version 2003. 2007 I don't much like. I am moving on to C# and .Net. The reason mostly has to do with the power of the platform. Over 15 years of working with Access I have seen about ONE major upgrade, from 97 to 2K / XP / 2003. That involved migrating Access to the code editor, and giving us ADO. In terms of actual additions to the languages, after classes were added, event handling and ADO, pretty much nothing. So as a developer I have not been given any major new tools. Now, look at .Net. It started in the late 90s, and has been constantly improved. C# and the .Net framework is probably the most powerful environment I have ever seen, and EVERY upgrade, major new capabilities are added to it. Not silly tool bars, things like LinQ. To see the modern programming constructs C# gives us look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_%28programming_language%29 In this, look at what was added every version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework Now, go look at what was added in Access 2003, 2007 and now 2010. Access is a good tool. It could have been a great tool, but MS just isn't spending the resources to make it great. Access in 2010 is not significantly different that it was in 2002. What did Stuart say... (Of course there are times when you can give it a bit of help by rolling your own "glue applications " and DLLs in PowerBasic ) Or... you could just learn .Net. Having said all of that, Access is a premier reporting tool. It will attach to just about anything with just a few clicks, and it's reporting abilities are pretty darned good. And if you just need a "little app" to do some "little thing" then it is an absolutely awesome tool. I wouldn't touch it today for starting a large enterprise application. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I suspect that I have quite a different perspective than most of you > regarding Access. After many years of working in the IBM mainframe > environment, I now find myself working for a small firm. We have > several PC-based purchased products and we are using Access to build > interfaces and to provide an easy way to get at data that in the past > was very difficult to get at. > > I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do > with it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be > done that cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for > internal use only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. > > Over the past couple months, there have been some comments in this > forum regarding Access and its future. Some people have said that > Access is declining in use and is becoming a niche product. I would > like to get some more perspective on this issue. Again, I am coming > from a non-Microsoft environment, so I do not know the history, > evolution, direction, and future of the Microsoft products. > > If not Access for the small business environment, then what? > > Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace > Access? > > If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than > Access? > > If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful > and complicated product? > > If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking > ourselves 5 years from now? > > These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack > as many years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit > feeble-minded :-) > > Thanks in advance for your ideas and perspectives on this topic. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Jul 25 15:08:01 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:08:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <002501cb2c32$1f4f2aa0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <002501cb2c32$1f4f2aa0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <4C4C99A1.7090009@colbyconsulting.com> Edward, Yep, Access is a very useful tool. When you look back at what Brad Marks is asking, Access is perhaps perfect for those kinds of things, AS LONG AS it is not going to run a Lowes hardware or something similar. I wrote a call center application for the disability insurance industry in Access. I started in 2003 doing this. The client was about 20 people, brand new company, small budget etc. Access was a good fit for that task, at that time. We got the app up in a basic form really pretty quickly and then added on over the years. And therein lies the problem. The app is approaching the limits of its expandability now. The application has grown and grown and grown. It is not all that big (as big programs go) but it is getting unwieldy. The language does not support many things I would do if I had a C# / .Net environment to work with. I make it work, but at ~30 users, ~150 forms, dozens of classes PLUS my framework, NO viable source control, third party dlls / tools for handling things like compression / encryption / ftp and so forth... (NONE of which will EVER be native)... It is just getting to be a headache. Trying to have multiple developers work on it at the same time? Ick. It still works, and I still support it, but it is just reaching that point where a different environment would make maintenance so much easier. But it did its job. It was quick to get rolling, expandable all these years etc. Access is indeed a very useful tool, as long as you understand what it is good at AND its limitations and carefully analyze why you are using it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Edward Zuris wrote: > I find Access to be a very useful tool. > > It is everything the PDP-11 RSTS/E ever > wanted to be. How is that for ancient. > > Microsoft has its own agenda to enhance > its income, which is what corporations do. > > It is neither good, or bad, though it may > make things hard on people who use some of > their products. > > I have sat in meetings with some Microsoft > folks, years ago, and they said they want a > bigger peace of the development action. > > Access could compete with some of their > other products or future plans. > > Maybe a bunch of us should look at Access 2000, > or 2003, see what it does and create a spec., > to create something like Access, but in the open > source environment. Sort of like the start of > the IBM PC clones from the 1980s and 1990s. > > It would be a huge undertaking. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 1:02 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access > > > Brad, > > I have been developing in Access since 1994. I love it up through > version 2003. 2007 I don't much > like. > > I am moving on to C# and .Net. The reason mostly has to do with the > power of the platform. Over 15 > years of working with Access I have seen about ONE major upgrade, from > 97 to 2K / XP / 2003. That > involved migrating Access to the code editor, and giving us ADO. > > In terms of actual additions to the languages, after classes were added, > event handling and ADO, > pretty much nothing. > > So as a developer I have not been given any major new tools. > > Now, look at .Net. It started in the late 90s, and has been constantly > improved. C# and the .Net > framework is probably the most powerful environment I have ever seen, > and EVERY upgrade, major new > capabilities are added to it. > > Not silly tool bars, things like LinQ. > > To see the modern programming constructs C# gives us look at this: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_%28programming_language%29 > > In this, look at what was added every version: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework > > Now, go look at what was added in Access 2003, 2007 and now 2010. > > Access is a good tool. It could have been a great tool, but MS just > isn't spending the resources to > make it great. Access in 2010 is not significantly different that it > was in 2002. > > What did Stuart say... > > (Of course there are times when you can give it a bit of help by rolling > your own "glue applications " and DLLs in PowerBasic ) > > Or... you could just learn .Net. > > Having said all of that, Access is a premier reporting tool. It will > attach to just about anything > with just a few clicks, and it's reporting abilities are pretty darned > good. And if you just need a > "little app" to do some "little thing" then it is an absolutely awesome > tool. I wouldn't touch it > today for starting a large enterprise application. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Brad Marks wrote: >> All, >> >> I suspect that I have quite a different perspective than most of you >> regarding Access. After many years of working in the IBM mainframe >> environment, I now find myself working for a small firm. We have >> several PC-based purchased products and we are using Access to build >> interfaces and to provide an easy way to get at data that in the past >> was very difficult to get at. >> >> I am very impressed with Microsoft Access and what we are able to do >> with it. So far, I have not encountered anything that needs to be >> done that cannot be done with Access. All of our applications are for > >> internal use only and are there is no need for them to be Web-based. >> >> Over the past couple months, there have been some comments in this >> forum regarding Access and its future. Some people have said that >> Access is declining in use and is becoming a niche product. I would >> like to get some more perspective on this issue. Again, I am coming >> from a non-Microsoft environment, so I do not know the history, >> evolution, direction, and future of the Microsoft products. >> >> If not Access for the small business environment, then what? >> >> Are some people suggesting that Visual Studio is going to replace >> Access? >> >> If so, isn't Visual Studio much more complicated and expensive than >> Access? >> >> If Access can get the job done, is there a need for a more powerful >> and complicated product? >> >> If we continue to build things with Access, are we going to be kicking > >> ourselves 5 years from now? >> >> These are all probably dumb questions. Please cut me a little slack >> as many years of JCL, DB2, COBOL, BAL, etc have left me a bit >> feeble-minded :-) >> >> Thanks in advance for your ideas and perspectives on this topic. >> >> Brad From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Jul 25 16:18:22 2010 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:18:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Date Time Message-ID: Hi Chester This should do: datRoundedHour = DateSerial(Year(d), Month(d), Day(d)) + TimeSerial(Hour(d), Int((Minute(d) + 30) / 60) * 60, 0) /gustav >>> Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com 19-07-2010 18:24 >>> I have a database linked to an SQL server table that has a date time column. I want only the date and the hour portion rounded to the nearest hour. For example 7/18/2010 1:41:00 AM becomes 7/18/2010 2:00:00 AM Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 From marksimms at verizon.net Sun Jul 25 19:52:22 2010 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:52:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4C99A1.7090009@colbyconsulting.com> References: <002501cb2c32$1f4f2aa0$5bdea8c0@edz1> <4C4C99A1.7090009@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <003201cb2c5c$cf537e40$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> > Yep, Access is a very useful tool. When you look back at > what Brad Marks is asking, Access is perhaps perfect for > those kinds of things, AS LONG AS it is not going to run a > Lowes hardware or something similar. > > I wrote a call center application for the disability > insurance industry in Access. I started in > 2003 doing this. The client was about 20 people, brand new > company, small budget etc. > > Access was a good fit for that task, at that time. We got > the app up in a basic form really pretty quickly and then > added on over the years. > > And therein lies the problem. The app is approaching the > limits of its expandability now. The application has grown > and grown and grown. Damn good post John. Let me add that there have been less than one dozen Access engagements/contracts in the entire metro Philly area over the past 2 years. 5 years ago there would have been 50+. However, demand for Excel work has been brisk. Strong demand for BI (Business Intelligence) applications appear to be the reason. MSFT is out to take market share away from Hyperion(Oracle), Business Objects(SAP), SAS, and Cognos(IBM). From mikedorism at verizon.net Sun Jul 25 21:47:56 2010 From: mikedorism at verizon.net (Doris Manning) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:47:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access In-Reply-To: References: <4C4AEF82.7080308@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4B2FF5.26415.4FC70D3C@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6036087B10F54B3BBC10BFA87B7C0285@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4C4B3CE9.3220.4FF9A7A8@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Interesting! I wonder if there is a VB.Net equivalent of that command for controlling the printer because I often get the complaint from my users that a print job containing a mix of color & black/white documents comes out as all black/white. Doris -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 5:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access Hi Stuart: Thanks for the tip...I just ran into a mental block. I did finally solve the problem by adding the following line after setting the PDFCreator object but before running the print report command: Application.Printer.ColorMode = acPRCMColor ...and that seems to solve the problem. Thanks again Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with Access File, Page Setup, Page - Use a specific printer. In the selection box, select PDFCreator, click on Properties and select Black and White. -- Stuart On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:58, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I did not know that Access reports could be set to black & white? > Where is this setting made? > > TIA > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 11:25 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] PDFCreator with > Access > > My first guess would be that the sub-report was formatted to print > in B&W and that is overriding the settings for the main report (since > it is the first part built by Access.) > > > -- > Stuart > > > On 24 Jul 2010 at 11:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi All: > > > > I have been using PDFCreator extensively with MS Access and it has > > been a solid and relieable app for creating PDF files. > > > > One particular client has a coloured JPG graphic header file which > > is attached to all their Access reports. All their reports print > > just fine except for one. There is no error but when this report is > > printed within the program the colour JPG header is conveted to > > monochrome.(?) > > > > > > If the report is printed in direct manual mode the report retains > > its colour... the problem only shows itself when printed within the > > program. It does not matter what OS is running XP/Vista/Windows7, or > > memory from 1GB to 8GB of RAM, or how many pages from 1 to 6 but > > there is one difference though. > > > > The report has a subreport. If the subreport is removed, back comes > > the colour. I have left a message on the PDFCreator forum but so far > > no responses but as the problem is a MS Access one if the question > > can be answered it would be here. > > > > TIA > > Jim > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jul 26 08:48:24 2010 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:48:24 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses Message-ID: Hi Jim J?rgen that is - he forgot a comma after the Ciao! /gustav >>> accessd at shaw.ca 21-07-2010 23:14 >>> Whoop... the word should have been 'intractable'... I guess that comes with writing fast and letting the spell-checker do the correcting. Thanks for the heads up, Ciao, and I will make the appropriate addition to my spell checker library. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jurgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 2:19 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] SCO/Novell suit is over, SCO loses Jim: Perhaps you meant antonym? I didn't find the SCO icon. Intransient seems to preempt 'their own oblivion'. Intransient \In*tran"sient\, a. Not transient; remaining; permanent. --Killingbeck. [1913 Webster] Did you mean intransigent or transient or something else? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Jul 26 09:13:22 2010 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:13:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Inside the Open Source FaceBook In-Reply-To: References: <77B6C3D4BFA64841977E325A8B123C2D@HAL9005> <370D6F57F0EC44DA80974E479A9C4AD7@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4E83956F625B424BB20A550891D69A34@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <1F81EED2D6D44FC38BA9233EF4A32E64@creativesystemdesigns.com> This link gives a very brief look into the 36 Pentabyte (or 36,000 Terabyte drives), 500 million user and Open Source system called FaceBook. http://www.developer.com/features/article.php/3894566/Inside-Facebooks-Open- Source-Infrastructure.htm Jim From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Jul 26 09:32:19 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:32:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Chart X Axis problem Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751950@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have data that has a time step of hourly. I used the chart wizard to build my chart. It generated the following query. SELECT (Format([DateTime],"DDDDD HAMPM")), [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].Actual, [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].[Target Limits] AS [Lower Limit], [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].Target, [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].HighRangePressure AS [Upper Limit] FROM [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data] GROUP BY (Format([DateTime],"DDDDD HAMPM")), [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].Actual, [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].[Target Limits], [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].Target, [qry Plant Pressure Temperature Data].HighRangePressure, (Int([DateTime]*24)) ORDER BY (Int([DateTime]*24)); The X axis displays labels with both date and time. I have the interval set to 24 which works fine for one label each day. However I cannot format the label from the chart axis or the chart datasheet to display only the data without the time. Is this possible? Thanks. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From delam at zyterra.com Mon Jul 26 14:15:34 2010 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:15:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DateAdd vs + Message-ID: I have an existing app that gets date criteria for a report by adding 60 to the date. Between me.datePicker and me.datePicker + 60. I am being asked some very specific questions about when it counts from. My unfderstanding is that this is a total of 61 days since between is inclusive. Now I use dateadd() instead of the date + x method. Do these potentially give different results, say if February or a leap year is included? Debbie Sent from my iPhone From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Jul 26 15:56:50 2010 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:56:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] DateAdd vs + Message-ID: Hi Debbie No, but as 60 probably means "two months" you may get better results by using DateAdd("m", 2, Me!DatePicker) /gustav >>> delam at zyterra.com 26-07-2010 21:15 >>> I have an existing app that gets date criteria for a report by adding 60 to the date. Between me.datePicker and me.datePicker + 60. I am being asked some very specific questions about when it counts from. My unfderstanding is that this is a total of 61 days since between is inclusive. Now I use dateadd() instead of the date + x method. Do these potentially give different results, say if February or a leap year is included? Debbie From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Mon Jul 26 16:27:08 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:27:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience In-Reply-To: <1310.24.35.23.165.1279816123.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4C4232C9.9090608@colbyconsulting.com> <1877.24.35.23.165.1279556238.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4C4499A5.1060608@colbyconsulting.com><2480.24.35.23.165.1279642133.squirrel@mail.expedient.net><4C45EA91.1030708@colbyconsulting.com><3962.24.35.23.165.1279734149.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <1310.24.35.23.165.1279816123.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: Possible. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Bahr Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 11:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Google's Disk Failure Experience And it is probrably running embedded Linux. Also wait until the 6TB HD come out--oh my. Mike... > A few months ago, saw a network capable RAID 1 hard drive setup for > ~$200, without the drives. Just a box with a network port. Terrabyte > drives are getting pretty cheap, so you could get a networked mirrored > 1+ terabyte setup for about 400. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Mon Jul 26 16:53:58 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:53:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DateAdd vs + In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Debbie, You MIGHT want to have a look at this article that describes a lot of stuff about Access Date Fields http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130514 This article describes date field in Access. They are a double precision numeric field with the data to the left of the decimals representing the number of days since the beginning and the decimal portion representing the fractional part of the day for the time. Day number ZERO in this scheme is December 30, 1899. Dates before this date are represented by Negative numbers and after are positive numbers. So the dateadd function and the simple math should both yield the same result as they are only adding a number of days which is then reformatted into whatever date format you have indicated after the math is done. Dateadd is a great function when you are doing math for other than days but for the example of adding days it would not seem to me to matter. I agree that the between says you should probably add 59 instead of 60 though. I'd make a test table and run some tests to be sure though as I always get messed up with math ;-) GK On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Debbie wrote: > I have an existing app that gets date criteria for a report by adding > 60 to the date. ?Between me.datePicker and me.datePicker + 60. I am > being asked some very specific questions about when it counts from. My > unfderstanding is that this is a total of 61 days since between is > inclusive. Now I use dateadd() instead of the date + x method. Do > these potentially give different results, say if February or a leap > year is included? > > Debbie > > Sent from my iPhone > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From delam at zyterra.com Mon Jul 26 16:56:46 2010 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:56:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DateAdd vs + In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8ED41FF8-2FED-4D04-94BE-AE0FA7B066DD@zyterra.com> The specs say specifically 60 days so that is probably right. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Jul 26, 2010, at 3:56 PM, "Gustav Brock" wrote: > Hi Debbie > > No, but as 60 probably means "two months" you may get better results > by using DateAdd("m", 2, Me!DatePicker) > > /gustav > > >>>> delam at zyterra.com 26-07-2010 21:15 >>> > I have an existing app that gets date criteria for a report by adding > 60 to the date. Between me.datePicker and me.datePicker + 60. I am > being asked some very specific questions about when it counts from. My > unfderstanding is that this is a total of 61 days since between is > inclusive. Now I use dateadd() instead of the date + x method. Do > these potentially give different results, say if February or a leap > year is included? > > Debbie > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Mon Jul 26 17:07:47 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:07:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: References: <189407C55836450C8C1D7662CBD30367@salvationomc4p><0C07B8950B8D4477AF18C913B2182671@stevePC> Message-ID: I completely agree. Access is like the leatherman of computer applications. Always handy for some jobs, completely useless for others. And MS's lack of listening when it comes to hard core developers, has let some great ideas slip by, and pigeon holed Access a bit. I've got tons of examples where Access falls short when it comes to it's interface.... don't even get me started! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access Steve, We all know you're an Access fan. I have been too, since I preordered version 1.0. That doesn't blind me to the fact that Microsoft, not developers, has niched Access into a "power user" slot. Everyone who has been on this list for a while has made Access stand up and do tricks. We KNOW what it can do, but MS has ignored our pleas on behalf of Access since forever. That is why the "legend" of Access's demise persists. Access will be around, but it gets cosmetic treatments not true improvements. Charlotte Foust The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Jul 27 10:59:59 2010 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:59:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> I doubt there is any one software product that can cover each and every situation, from Mom and Pop operations through to Fortune 500 companies. It is like trying to go to grocery store in an eighteen wheeler truck, when compact car will do. Or haul 15 tons of steel in a compact car. However, the range of applications that Ms Access can do is impressive. MSFT does what MSFT does. They have their agenda, whatever it is. Access could compete with some of their other products and or future plans. If things become too unbearable here is one possible course of action. Maybe a bunch of us should look at Access 2000, or 2003, see what it does and create a spec., to create something like Access, but in the open source environment. Sort of like the start of the IBM PC clones from the 1980s and 1990s. It would be a huge undertaking. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access I completely agree. Access is like the leatherman of computer applications. Always handy for some jobs, completely useless for others. And MS's lack of listening when it comes to hard core developers, has let some great ideas slip by, and pigeon holed Access a bit. I've got tons of examples where Access falls short when it comes to it's interface.... don't even get me started! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 12:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access Steve, We all know you're an Access fan. I have been too, since I preordered version 1.0. That doesn't blind me to the fact that Microsoft, not developers, has niched Access into a "power user" slot. Everyone who has been on this list for a while has made Access stand up and do tricks. We KNOW what it can do, but MS has ignored our pleas on behalf of Access since forever. That is why the "legend" of Access's demise persists. Access will be around, but it gets cosmetic treatments not true improvements. Charlotte Foust The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jul 27 11:16:51 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:16:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jul 27 11:47:56 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:47:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <39FF1510B9D24121BFF1164025812B88@HAL9005> What error and which line? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 11:53:16 2010 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:53:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <4c4f0eff.049e720a.1741.3f67@mx.google.com> I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Please explain what you are attempting to do. To me, I don't know why you would put "Stop" at the beginning of the sub. Stop suspends the code so it doesn't progress any further. You then attempt to open a different form, maximize the current form and set focus to an object on the current form. You then Dim several variables, then turn off the warnings. I would think that opening one form when you open a form would give you an error message. I also think you would probably get another error message when you attempt to set focus on an object that is not on the second form. I think the maximize command is ineffective because it doesn't apply to the form that is being opened, but the form you attempted to use it on has already lost its focus, so it won't work there either. None of the Dim variables have anything to do, so they are taking up code space for no apparent reason. The Warnings have been turned off, I wouldn't do that unless there are some messages I don't want to see. One example is an update query where I know how many rows will be updated. Just my musings, I would be interested in what you're trying to do and how the second form relates to the first. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jul 27 12:01:46 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:01:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <39FF1510B9D24121BFF1164025812B88@HAL9005> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <39FF1510B9D24121BFF1164025812B88@HAL9005> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C57@houex1.kindermorgan.com> The only message I get is "Unknown Jet Error" When stepping through the code the message appears after completing the line DoCmd.Maximize. I.e. Next line is highlighted. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error What error and which line? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jul 27 12:02:09 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:02:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? Message-ID: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> Client sent me an email wit this extract: "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office 2010 if you are going to run W7." Haven't heard this before. Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? Rocky From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Jul 27 12:04:54 2010 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:04:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C57@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com><39FF1510B9D24121BFF1164025812B88@HAL9005> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C57@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <738AD6A06AC44BFB97169231B1E8EF62@HAL9005> If it's not a big PITA, I would delete and recreate chtPlantChart. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error The only message I get is "Unknown Jet Error" When stepping through the code the message appears after completing the line DoCmd.Maximize. I.e. Next line is highlighted. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error What error and which line? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 12:26:22 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:26:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> References: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> Message-ID: Well it seems to me that Office 2010 is generally more highly regarded than Office 2007, so perhaps that is what the salesman was referring to. We were very slow adopters of 2007 at our company but have several people moving to 2010 already. GK On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Client sent me an email wit this extract: > > "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said > Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office > 2010 if you are going to run W7." > > Haven't heard this before. > > Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jul 27 12:43:32 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:43:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <4c4f0eff.049e720a.1741.3f67@mx.google.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <4c4f0eff.049e720a.1741.3f67@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C74@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Yes I will agree it is a mess of code. I am by no means a professional coder. Some of this came from an old form. It is only part of the code. Anyway let me start from the beginning of the story The form I am working with contains a chart that has hourly data points for the last six days. The chart likes to auto scale the x axis for seven days . The scale starts one day before the actual data. My attempts to work with the chart were not successful so I thought I would change the x axis scale of the chart using VBA. My plan was to retrieve the minimum axis value and then change it. I am still unclear on how to retrieve it. The stop is temporarily in the code so when the form opens I can walk through the code. I have manipulated the graph axis in the past with code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Please explain what you are attempting to do. To me, I don't know why you would put "Stop" at the beginning of the sub. Stop suspends the code so it doesn't progress any further. You then attempt to open a different form, maximize the current form and set focus to an object on the current form. You then Dim several variables, then turn off the warnings. I would think that opening one form when you open a form would give you an error message. I also think you would probably get another error message when you attempt to set focus on an object that is not on the second form. I think the maximize command is ineffective because it doesn't apply to the form that is being opened, but the form you attempted to use it on has already lost its focus, so it won't work there either. None of the Dim variables have anything to do, so they are taking up code space for no apparent reason. The Warnings have been turned off, I wouldn't do that unless there are some messages I don't want to see. One example is an update query where I know how many rows will be updated. Just my musings, I would be interested in what you're trying to do and how the second form relates to the first. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 12:51:32 2010 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:51:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C74@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <4c4f0eff.049e720a.1741.3f67@mx.google.com> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C74@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: So this code is in the on open event of one form and it's attempting to open another form? Generally I would suggest commenting out the code that is not needed to get down to the issue that is really failing. Simplify to make it simpler to focus on what the actual problem is. As Jim pointed out in an earlier post on this, all the DIM statements you have included are irrelevant to the process and so should be removed or commented out to get them out of the way. I would think that opening another form while in the process of opening one form could be problematic. GK On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Kaup, Chester wrote: > Yes I will agree it is a mess of code. I am by no means a professional coder. Some of this came from an old form. It is only part of the code. > > Anyway let me start from the beginning of the story > > The form I am working with contains a chart that has hourly data points for the last six days. The chart likes to auto scale the x axis for seven days . The scale starts one day before the actual data. > > My attempts to work with the chart were not successful so I thought I would change the x axis scale of the chart using VBA. My plan was to retrieve the minimum axis value and then change it. I am still unclear on how to retrieve it. > > The stop is temporarily in the code so when the form opens I can walk through the code. > > I have manipulated the graph axis in the past with code. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:53 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error > > I'm not sure what you're trying to do. > Please explain what you are attempting to do. > > To me, I don't know why you would put "Stop" at the beginning of the sub. > Stop suspends the code so it doesn't progress any further. ?You then attempt > to open a different form, maximize the current form and set focus to an > object on the current form. ?You then Dim several variables, then turn off > the warnings. > > I would think that opening one form when you open a form would give you an > error message. > I also think you would probably get another error message when you attempt > to set focus on an object that is not on the second form. ?I think the > maximize command is ineffective because it doesn't apply to the form that is > being opened, but the form you attempted to use it on has already lost its > focus, so it won't work there either. ?None of the Dim variables have > anything to do, so they are taking up code space for no apparent reason. > The Warnings have been turned off, I wouldn't do that unless there are some > messages I don't want to see. ?One example is an update query where I know > how many rows will be updated. > > Just my musings, I would be interested in what you're trying to do and how > the second form relates to the first. > > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error > > Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. > > Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) > ? ?Stop > ? ?DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" > ? ?DoCmd.Maximize > ? ?Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus > ? ?Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control > ? ?Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer > ? ?Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single > ? ?Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single > ? ?DoCmd.SetWarnings Off > End Sub. > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number > of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Jul 27 12:54:41 2010 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: References: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> Message-ID: <00c901cb2db4$ca66a980$5f33fc80$@net> Could be. I for one have regarded O2k7 in the same light as WVista - a partially finished product. W7 is the completed version of Vista and O2010 is the completed version of O2k7. The UI isn't even standard across all apps in O2k7 and is in O2010. I didn't recommend either of the previous but am recommending both of the latter. But not everyone listens to me ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? Well it seems to me that Office 2010 is generally more highly regarded than Office 2007, so perhaps that is what the salesman was referring to. We were very slow adopters of 2007 at our company but have several people moving to 2010 already. GK On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Client sent me an email wit this extract: > > "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said > Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office > 2010 if you are going to run W7." > > Haven't heard this before. > > Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Tue Jul 27 13:28:19 2010 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:28:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> References: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> Message-ID: Blowing smoke. Office 97 has some quirks with Windows 7, but Office 2007 works just fine.....except Access, but that's Access 2007, not the OS! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? Client sent me an email wit this extract: "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office 2010 if you are going to run W7." Haven't heard this before. Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? Rocky The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Jul 27 13:37:21 2010 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:37:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C74@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com><4c4f0eff.049e720a.1741.3f67@mx.google.com> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C74@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <7EF1FAAA00554C66AFD1FE1BAC22501D@murphy3234aaf1> Hello Chester, Here is an example database showing how to work with charts in code. http://www.augsd.org/sampleapps/Charting%20For%20Access.zip. It may not address your specific need but the approach may give some insight on how to reach your goals. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Yes I will agree it is a mess of code. I am by no means a professional coder. Some of this came from an old form. It is only part of the code. Anyway let me start from the beginning of the story The form I am working with contains a chart that has hourly data points for the last six days. The chart likes to auto scale the x axis for seven days . The scale starts one day before the actual data. My attempts to work with the chart were not successful so I thought I would change the x axis scale of the chart using VBA. My plan was to retrieve the minimum axis value and then change it. I am still unclear on how to retrieve it. The stop is temporarily in the code so when the form opens I can walk through the code. I have manipulated the graph axis in the past with code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Please explain what you are attempting to do. To me, I don't know why you would put "Stop" at the beginning of the sub. Stop suspends the code so it doesn't progress any further. You then attempt to open a different form, maximize the current form and set focus to an object on the current form. You then Dim several variables, then turn off the warnings. I would think that opening one form when you open a form would give you an error message. I also think you would probably get another error message when you attempt to set focus on an object that is not on the second form. I think the maximize command is ineffective because it doesn't apply to the form that is being opened, but the form you attempted to use it on has already lost its focus, so it won't work there either. None of the Dim variables have anything to do, so they are taking up code space for no apparent reason. The Warnings have been turned off, I wouldn't do that unless there are some messages I don't want to see. One example is an update query where I know how many rows will be updated. Just my musings, I would be interested in what you're trying to do and how the second form relates to the first. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Jul 27 15:11:03 2010 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:11:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error In-Reply-To: <7EF1FAAA00554C66AFD1FE1BAC22501D@murphy3234aaf1> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C20@houex1.kindermorgan.com><4c4f0eff.049e720a.1741.3f67@mx.google.com> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751C74@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <7EF1FAAA00554C66AFD1FE1BAC22501D@murphy3234aaf1> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C1921751D11@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Thanks for the example. I got it working now. Thanks for everyone's ideas. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Hello Chester, Here is an example database showing how to work with charts in code. http://www.augsd.org/sampleapps/Charting%20For%20Access.zip. It may not address your specific need but the approach may give some insight on how to reach your goals. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Yes I will agree it is a mess of code. I am by no means a professional coder. Some of this came from an old form. It is only part of the code. Anyway let me start from the beginning of the story The form I am working with contains a chart that has hourly data points for the last six days. The chart likes to auto scale the x axis for seven days . The scale starts one day before the actual data. My attempts to work with the chart were not successful so I thought I would change the x axis scale of the chart using VBA. My plan was to retrieve the minimum axis value and then change it. I am still unclear on how to retrieve it. The stop is temporarily in the code so when the form opens I can walk through the code. I have manipulated the graph axis in the past with code. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Hewson Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Please explain what you are attempting to do. To me, I don't know why you would put "Stop" at the beginning of the sub. Stop suspends the code so it doesn't progress any further. You then attempt to open a different form, maximize the current form and set focus to an object on the current form. You then Dim several variables, then turn off the warnings. I would think that opening one form when you open a form would give you an error message. I also think you would probably get another error message when you attempt to set focus on an object that is not on the second form. I think the maximize command is ineffective because it doesn't apply to the form that is being opened, but the form you attempted to use it on has already lost its focus, so it won't work there either. None of the Dim variables have anything to do, so they are taking up code space for no apparent reason. The Warnings have been turned off, I wouldn't do that unless there are some messages I don't want to see. One example is an update query where I know how many rows will be updated. Just my musings, I would be interested in what you're trying to do and how the second form relates to the first. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Kaup, Chester Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Unknown Jet Error Why does this code cause an error? Compact and repair is of no use. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Stop DoCmd.OpenForm "frm Plant Pressures Scatter" DoCmd.Maximize Me!chtPlantChart.SetFocus Dim frm As Form, ctl As Control Dim varItm As Variant, intCnt As Integer Dim MaxY1 As Single, MaxY2 As Single, MajorUnitY1 As Single Dim MinorUnitY1 As Single, MajorUnitY2 As Single, MinorUnitY2 As Single DoCmd.SetWarnings Off End Sub. Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Tue Jul 27 15:09:29 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:09:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access - THANKS! References: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: All, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to my question regarding the future of Microsoft Access. It was interesting to see the various responses. For the most part, I feel comfortable moving forward with the use of Access in the small business environment. I believe that there are many small firms where Access can be employed for small, economical, and yet effective systems. I know that Access does not have all of the bells and whistles that Visual Studio has. On the other hand, if business needs can be met with the less expensive and simpler Access environment, why not go this route? Thanks again for your insights. I have learned many things from this group and I truly appreciated the assistance. Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 27 15:20:43 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:20:43 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: References: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4C4F3F9B.7070905@colbyconsulting.com> This is interesting that a salesman would "know" such things. We (on this list) see a ton of "Access 2007 has problems with Windows 2007". Are those issues fixed in 2010? I seriously doubt it but who knows. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Gary Kjos wrote: > Well it seems to me that Office 2010 is generally more highly regarded > than Office 2007, so perhaps that is what the salesman was referring > to. We were very slow adopters of 2007 at our company but have > several people moving to 2010 already. > > GK > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >> Client sent me an email wit this extract: >> >> "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said >> Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office >> 2010 if you are going to run W7." >> >> Haven't heard this before. >> >> Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? >> >> >> >> Rocky >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 15:26:05 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:26:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access - THANKS! In-Reply-To: References: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Just one point: Access itself is not necessarily simpler or less expensive than visual studio. VS has a steeper learning curve from VBA than Access. However, VS Express and SQL Express are both free, so leave expense (except training costs) out of the equation. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > All, > > I would like to thank everyone who contributed to my question regarding the future of Microsoft Access. > > It was interesting to see the various responses. ?For the most part, I feel comfortable moving forward with the use of Access in the small business environment. ?I believe that there are many small firms where Access can be employed for small, economical, and yet effective systems. > > I know that Access does not have all of the bells and whistles that Visual Studio has. ?On the other hand, if business needs can be met with the less expensive and simpler Access environment, why not go this route? > > Thanks again for your insights. ?I have learned many things from this group and I truly appreciated the assistance. > > Brad > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Jul 27 15:28:26 2010 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:28:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: <4C4F3F9B.7070905@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> <4C4F3F9B.7070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Salesmen tend to repeat what they've been told. They often have no actual experience or data to back it up, but it makes them sound knowledgeable. Ever bought used car??? LOL Charlotte On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:20 PM, jwcolby wrote: > This is interesting that a salesman would "know" such things. > > We (on this list) see a ton of "Access 2007 has problems with Windows 2007". ?Are those issues fixed > in 2010? ?I seriously doubt it but who knows. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Gary Kjos wrote: >> Well it seems to me that Office 2010 is generally more highly regarded >> than Office 2007, so perhaps that is what the salesman was referring >> to. ? We were very slow adopters of 2007 at our company but have >> several people moving to 2010 already. >> >> GK >> >> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: >>> Client sent me an email wit this extract: >>> >>> "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said >>> Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office >>> 2010 if you are going to run W7." >>> >>> Haven't heard this before. >>> >>> Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? >>> >>> >>> >>> Rocky >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Tue Jul 27 15:57:35 2010 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:57:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: <4C4F3F9B.7070905@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0777261B87FB44EFBF6B135B3D46C922@HAL9005> <4C4F3F9B.7070905@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <010c01cb2dce$5705ec70$0511c550$@net> BTW - I have no customers who use Access 2007 therefore my comments do not pertain to that particular app. From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Jul 27 19:26:59 2010 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:26:59 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000001cb2deb$980a2fc0$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> > Maybe a bunch of us should look at Access 2000, or 2003, > see what it does and create a spec., to create something > like Access, but in the open source environment. Sort of > like the start of the IBM PC clones from the 1980s and 1990s. > It would be a huge undertaking. You bet. You have no idea of what you are looking at. Example: MSFT's PerformancePoint server software has minimal marketshare right now... But it is garnishing a lot of interest because of the demise of Hyperion which was bot by Larry Elison's Oracle, Inc. only to reduce the competition it had created for His product. PerformancePoint was about 40 MAN YEARS in the making. Figure about half of that for an Access clone ? With 8 good programmers, see you in 2012-2013 then ? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 27 20:38:09 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:38:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <000001cb2deb$980a2fc0$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> References: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> <000001cb2deb$980a2fc0$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: <4C4F8A01.1080109@colbyconsulting.com> Unless of course you used C# to create it. Then about 3/4 of the work would be done already. So that would only leave 10 man years. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Simms wrote: >> Maybe a bunch of us should look at Access 2000, or 2003, >> see what it does and create a spec., to create something >> like Access, but in the open source environment. Sort of >> like the start of the IBM PC clones from the 1980s and 1990s. >> It would be a huge undertaking. > > You bet. You have no idea of what you are looking at. > Example: MSFT's PerformancePoint server software has minimal marketshare > right now... > But it is garnishing a lot of interest because of the demise of Hyperion > which was bot by Larry Elison's Oracle, Inc. only to reduce the competition > it had created for His product. > PerformancePoint was about 40 MAN YEARS in the making. > > Figure about half of that for an Access clone ? > With 8 good programmers, see you in 2012-2013 then ? > > From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Jul 27 20:45:49 2010 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:45:49 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4F8A01.1080109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> <000001cb2deb$980a2fc0$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <4C4F8A01.1080109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> John - I don't understand why 75% of the work would be done already ? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access > > Unless of course you used C# to create it. Then about 3/4 of > the work would be done already. So that would only leave 10 > man years. > > ;) > > John W. Colby From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Jul 27 20:53:01 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:53:01 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> References: <002401cb2da4$c4be8da0$5bdea8c0@edz1> <000001cb2deb$980a2fc0$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> <4C4F8A01.1080109@colbyconsulting.com> <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS> Message-ID: <4C4F8D7D.5050203@colbyconsulting.com> Because Access was written in Assembler (the original product) and then C / C++. We start with C# plus the framework. We have ADO, we have forms, we have controls, we have all of the stuff that C# / .net framework give us. The Access team had to write all of that stuff from scratch. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Mark Simms wrote: > John - I don't understand why 75% of the work would be done already ? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:38 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access >> >> Unless of course you used C# to create it. Then about 3/4 of >> the work would be done already. So that would only leave 10 >> man years. >> >> ;) >> >> John W. Colby > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Jul 27 21:14:09 2010 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:14:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4F8D7D.5050203@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS>, <4C4F8D7D.5050203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4C4F9271.25376.60E7C4B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> But I don't want a .Net based Access. I want a standalone application that doesn't need a huge framework. -- Stuart On 27 Jul 2010 at 21:53, jwcolby wrote: > Because Access was written in Assembler (the original product) and > then C / C++. We start with C# plus the framework. We have ADO, we > have forms, we have controls, we have all of the stuff that C# / .net > framework give us. The Access team had to write all of that stuff > from scratch. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > Mark Simms wrote: > > John - I don't understand why 75% of the work would be done already > > ? > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:38 PM To: Access Developers > >> discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of > >> Microsoft Access > >> > >> Unless of course you used C# to create it. Then about 3/4 of > >> the work would be done already. So that would only leave 10 > >> man years. > >> > >> ;) > >> > >> John W. Colby > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 28 01:14:22 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 02:14:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4F9271.25376.60E7C4B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS>, <4C4F8D7D.5050203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4F9271.25376.60E7C4B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4C4FCABE.7030502@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Yea, so write one. Or go use (and help write) OpenOffice. My point was not that it is even possible, my point was simply that if you were going to do so you could get a tremendous head start by basing it on a huge (existing) framework. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Stuart McLachlan wrote: > But I don't want a .Net based Access. I want a standalone application that doesn't need a > huge framework. > > From john at winhaven.net Wed Jul 28 09:35:11 2010 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:35:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <4C4FCABE.7030502@colbyconsulting.com> References: , <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS>, <4C4F8D7D.5050203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4F9271.25376.60E7C4B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4C4FCABE.7030502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <006801cb2e62$163b2a40$42b17ec0$@net> Actually, albeit in a round-about way ;o), that's a good point! If someone that understood how powerful Access is would be working on the OpenOffice Suite maybe they'd get the geeks together to do it. Unfortunately I think the geeks that are programming OpenOffice aren't aware of the power of Access and place it in the same category as so many other "desktop database" apps. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access LOL. Yea, so write one. Or go use (and help write) OpenOffice. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Jul 28 09:50:57 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:50:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access In-Reply-To: <006801cb2e62$163b2a40$42b17ec0$@net> References: , <001501cb2df6$9b0a9d80$0801a8c0@MSIMMSWS>, <4C4F8D7D.5050203@colbyconsulting.com> <4C4F9271.25376.60E7C4B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4C4FCABE.7030502@colbyconsulting.com> <006801cb2e62$163b2a40$42b17ec0$@net> Message-ID: <4C5043D1.8070008@colbyconsulting.com> On the other hand, OpenOffice is written in Java... with all that entails... It is never going to be the speediest bunny in the bush. I think Stuart was really just taking a jab at .Net as he often does. Since I actually like (no perhaps love is a better fit) .Net, having a .Net based Access work-alike works for me. In the end though, I would just use Access when it fits and use .Net when Access doesn't fit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com John Bartow wrote: > Actually, albeit in a round-about way ;o), that's a good point! If someone > that understood how powerful Access is would be working on the OpenOffice > Suite maybe they'd get the geeks together to do it. Unfortunately I think > the geeks that are programming OpenOffice aren't aware of the power of > Access and place it in the same category as so many other "desktop database" > apps. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:14 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access > > LOL. Yea, so write one. Or go use (and help write) OpenOffice. > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Jul 28 12:37:01 2010 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 10:37:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Gauges Message-ID: <4C506ABD.9000204@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Don't know if this is like the caveman offering the aliens the wheel. But for years I have been using a custom status bar to indicate to the user the progress of an activity as it is being performed by the program. Ran across Stephen Yale's brilliant little analog clock for ACCESS. Modified it to display activity progress as either as a clock or a meter. If anyone is interested in using this alternative progress display, please EMail me off-line for a demo mdb. From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Jul 28 15:20:11 2010 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:20:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Gauges References: <4C506ABD.9000204@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Tony, I am interested in what you have put together. I have experimented a bit with building a low-budget dashboard with Access 2007 and multiple jpg files. This works, but it is quite primitive. I am not sure how to e-mail you off-line. Also, if others AccessD folks have experimented with dashboards and gauges, I would be interested to learn what has been done. Thanks, Brad Marks -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Tony Septav Sent: Wed 7/28/2010 12:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Gauges Hey All Don't know if this is like the caveman offering the aliens the wheel. But for years I have been using a custom status bar to indicate to the user the progress of an activity as it is being performed by the program. Ran across Stephen Yale's brilliant little analog clock for ACCESS. Modified it to display activity progress as either as a clock or a meter. If anyone is interested in using this alternative progress display, please EMail me off-line for a demo mdb. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From kismert at gmail.com Wed Jul 28 16:10:59 2010 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:10:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Future of Microsoft Access Message-ID: There is a Python-based desktop database app, very similar to Access in it's concept: Dabo -- http://dabodev.com/ Plus, they're working on a web-based front-end that they hope will be a seamless transition from the desktop version. > Stuart McLachlan: > But I don't want a .Net based Access. I want a standalone application > that doesn't need a > huge framework. > The Access runtime is a monster -- over 200MB for the latest download. The .NET Framework 4 Standalone is 48MB. Plus, .NET is already there for every Vista and Windows 7 machine. > jwcolby: > LOL. Yea, so write one. Or go use (and help write) OpenOffice. > > John Bartow: > ... If someone that understood how powerful Access is would be working on > the OpenOffice > Suite maybe they'd get the geeks together to do it... > There is OpenOffice Base: http://www.openoffice.org/product/base.html jwcolby: > ... having a .Net based Access work-alike works for me... > I wouldn't want a .NET Access clone -- there are many things in Access that are a PITA, which should be dumped. I would rather get rid of the 20 years of dreck and outdated thinking, and come up with a radical, simple, modern database front-end app based on current best practice. You could program the foundation in .NET, and let users script it in JavaScript, the lingua franca of the Internet. Such an app, if well-conceived, could put a lot of .NET programmers out-of-work ;) -Ken From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Jul 28 19:09:22 2010 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 10:09:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? In-Reply-To: <00c901cb2db4$ca66a980$5f33fc80$@net> Message-ID: <201007290009.o6T09HwP009809@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ditto, I loathed Office 2007, didn't like Vista much and actively advised people to give it them miss. Windows 7 is nice and Office 2010 is a much improved product. Basic functions like the ability to easily modify the ribbon is how the darn thing should have worked to start with. Excel's Power Pivot is great. I agree Vista and O2007 were like beta releases. Ugly. cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, 28 July 2010 3:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? Could be. I for one have regarded O2k7 in the same light as WVista - a partially finished product. W7 is the completed version of Vista and O2010 is the completed version of O2k7. The UI isn't even standard across all apps in O2k7 and is in O2010. I didn't recommend either of the previous but am recommending both of the latter. But not everyone listens to me ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] W7 with O2K7? Well it seems to me that Office 2010 is generally more highly regarded than Office 2007, so perhaps that is what the salesman was referring to. We were very slow adopters of 2007 at our company but have several people moving to 2010 already. GK On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Client sent me an email wit this extract: > > "this past weekend we were looking at W7 machines and the salesman said > Office 2007 does not work as well under W7 and you really need to get Office > 2010 if you are going to run W7." > > Haven't heard this before. > > Anything to that or was the salesman blowing smoke? > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Thu Jul 29 15:59:30 2010 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:59:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Where can I get the latest version of Eatbloat Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFD766@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> I've tried searching the archives but anything I do a search on comes up with no matches found. Rusty Hammond ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Jul 29 16:55:46 2010 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 17:55:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Where can I get the latest version of Eatbloat In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFD766@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFD766@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: Rusty, there was an email from John Colby on Jul 14 in which he said he used Max's Eatbloat. Suggest that John has the answer to location of latest version. Hope this helps. Jack On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > I've tried searching the archives but anything I do a search on comes up > with no matches found. > > > > Rusty Hammond > > > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Jul 29 19:12:18 2010 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Where can I get the latest version of Eatbloat In-Reply-To: References: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFD766@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4C5218E2.3030100@colbyconsulting.com> I think I do have the latest version. Email me off-line (quickly) and I will send it to you. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com jack drawbridge wrote: > Rusty, > there was an email from John Colby on Jul 14 in which he said he used Max's > Eatbloat. Suggest that John has the answer to location of latest version. > Hope this helps. > Jack > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > >> I've tried searching the archives but anything I do a search on comes up >> with no matches found. >> >> >> >> Rusty Hammond >> >> >> ********************************************************************** >> WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, >> scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. >> corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review >> by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. >> ********************************************************************** >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From kismert at gmail.com Fri Jul 30 09:54:03 2010 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 09:54:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Microsoft should starve on radical penguin diet Message-ID: The Friday 'Oh My-My': http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/30/microsoft_should_do_open_source/ The Register's Matt Asay comments on a Wall Street Journal column by Holman Jenkins titled "Steve Ballmer is a failed CEO?" Should Microsoft re-invent its business around open-source? -Ken