No subject


Thu Dec 29 09:38:12 CST 2011


in the mix, is if and how, they would use Domain security?
 
Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:48 PM
To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed



I was reading some threads that suggested that a Linux box might be used as
the server. I have no idea how to configure this. Boxes a-f hit a server
which hitherto has been a winX box. If have read the thread correctly, I can
subst a Linux box for any given server in the farm. Small company, say 4
servers. Can I build server Documents as a Linux box and hit it from the
numerous WinX boxes like they didn't even know it was a Linux server? I tend
to stay at one level, so forgive me if my questions reveal much ignorance.
Could I put a huge number of documents mostly media and DWMX &c. files on a
Linux box and transparently hit them from a local inst of DWMX, say, running
on winXP and having no idea that the server in question is running Mandrake
9.x? Is this true? If so, way cool! And how do I build it?

 

If so, how far can one push this scenario? Could an Access MDB live on a
Linux server and be accessible from x, y and z users on win98, 2K and XP?
I'm not an OS-level guy, hence these questions :-)

 

Arthur

 

-----Original Message-----
From: accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com
[mailto:accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka
Sent: March 3, 2003 10:20 AM
To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'
Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed

 

Rocky, it is a common misconception that you need a rocking CPU for a
server.  That is absolutely not true.  There are a few 'purposes' of a
server, and not all of them require massive processor speeds, or tons of
memory.

 

1 - File Sharing

2 - Domain Control

3 - Network 'Service' Server (Proxy, Email Server, Web Server, etc).

4 - Server Computing (Hard data crunching)

5 - Server Side databases.

 

You need to realize the real limiting factors on a server.  First is network
bandwidth.  a 100 megabit line is roughly 12 megabytes per second.  That is
not a lot.  It is a fraction of the speed of a typical IDE drive.  If you go
to a gigabit line, then you have a much larger data transfer rate (10x, so
you are talking roughly 120 megabytes per second...which is faster then your
typical IDE drive, but it is still less then a SCSI Raid configuration).
So, if you are just setting up file transfers, then you don't need much of a
machine to do it.  It can have minimal CPU Speed (even Pentium or Pentium
II....though I personally wouldn't go lower then a Pentium III to be on the
safe side), and memory doesn't have to be whopping (256 megs would do).
This is because the file sharing is going to be slower then actual file
usage used locally (do to the pipe the data is going through).  A faster CPU
or more memory isn't going to push the data through faster.

 

Domain Controllers don't need to be whoppers either.  I think we are running
a Pentium II (desktop) for a Primary Domain Controller here.  No problems.
It doesn't have to do all that much as far as processing goes.

 

Network services.  Well, it depends.  We run everything but our mail server
on Pentium III desktops.  (Proxy, web, intranet, etc.).  It all runs fine.
Again, it is going to boil down to the network tunnel involved.  With a
webserver, a common misconception is that you need to have a huge machine to
handle massive transactions.  Absolutely not true.  In a web server, you
have an even smaller pipe (we have a T1 here), so the data is being sent
through an even slower connection.  Now, if you have a lot of Server Side
scripting, where the server is creating pages on the fly, then you do need a
decent CPU, and the more ram you have, the more pages that are 'cached'.
But again, you don't need a Cray.  Email servers can require a bit more
power though.  We use an Exchange Server.  It's got a dual processor, with 2
gigs of RAM.  The real catch is how heavy it is used internally.  (for in
house comms).

 

Server Computing.  This is where the most power is needed.  There are
software packages out there that use server CPU time pretty heavily.  For
example, we have a package called FlowTherm, and FlowStress.  These packages
perform massive heat calculations, over and over and over.  If you run this
software on a server, obviously the more CPU and memory you have the better.

 

Server Side Databases.  You do need power on these.  But again, you are
limitted by your network speed.  However, your processor is going to do a
lot of work independant of the network traffic, so it probably should be
pretty fast, with lots of memory to boot.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Drew

-----Original Message-----
From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:06 AM
To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com
Subject: [AccessD] OT: Server Needed

Dear List:

 

Excuse the OT please but I know someone will know the answer:

 

I have a client who wants to upgrade the server on his network.  There's
about 10 seats on his network, of which maybe 6 are being used.  Seems to me
that he could use any good, fast P4 box with 1/2 gig of RAM , etc.  Which is
well under $1000 these days from dell, or gateway, with three years on-site.

 

A local, old, fairly reputable company in San Diego - Datel - is quoting him
$1457 for and Intel entry level server with a P4 (speed unknown), 512MB RAM,
80GB HD, with DUAL LAN RAID - whatever that is.  Plus another $775 for "WIN
2000 SVR W/5 CLIENT SP3 OEM-CD".  Plus something between 5 and 10 hours of
installation charged at a price unspecified in the quote.

 

Right now his "server" is an old Win98 box, slow, but effective.

 

My question is, what is the difference between a box that someone like Dell
calls a server and an ordinary computer?  Does he need a server?

 

MTIA,

 

Rocky

 


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<DIV><SPAN class=088510522-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>From 
what I know yes.  What I would like to know about using Linux servers in 
the mix, is if and how, they would use Domain security?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088510522-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=088510522-03032003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Drew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Arthur Fuller 
  [mailto:artful at rogers.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 03, 2003 3:48 
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> accessd at databaseadvisors.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [AccessD] 
  OT: Server Needed<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was reading some 
  threads that suggested that a Linux box might be used as the server. I have no 
  idea how to configure this. Boxes a-f hit a server which hitherto has been a 
  winX box. If have read the thread correctly, I can subst a Linux box for any 
  given server in the farm. Small company, say 4 servers. Can I build server 
  Documents as a Linux box and hit it from the numerous WinX boxes like they 
  didn't even know it was a Linux server? I tend to stay at one level, so 
  forgive me if my questions reveal much ignorance. Could I put a huge number of 
  documents mostly media and DWMX &c. files on a Linux box and transparently 
  hit them from a local inst of DWMX, say, running on winXP and having no idea 
  that the server in question is running Mandrake 9.x? Is this true? If so, way 
  cool! And how do I build it?</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">If so, how far can 
  one push this scenario? Could an Access MDB live on a Linux server and be 
  accessible from x, y and z users on win98, 2K and XP? I'm not an OS-level guy, 
  hence these questions </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Wingdings color=navy 
  size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings">J</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Arthur</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original 
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> 
  accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-admin at databaseadvisors.com] 
  <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Drew 
  Wutka<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> March 3, 2003 
  10:20 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> 
  'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'<BR><B><SPAN 
  style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [AccessD] OT: Server 
  Needed</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rocky, 
  it is a common misconception that you need a rocking CPU for a server.  
  That is absolutely not true.  There are a few 'purposes' of a server, and 
  not all of them require massive processor speeds, or tons of 
  memory.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1 
  - File Sharing</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2 - 
  Domain Control</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3 - 
  Network 'Service' Server (Proxy, Email Server, Web Server, 
  etc).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4 - 
  Server Computing (Hard data crunching)</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">5 - 
  Server Side databases.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You need 
  to realize the real limiting factors on a server.  First is network 
  bandwidth.  a 100 megabit line is roughly 12 megabytes per second.  
  That is not a lot.  It is a fraction of the speed of a typical IDE 
  drive.  If you go to a gigabit line, then you have a much larger data 
  transfer rate (10x, so you are talking roughly 120 megabytes per 
  second...which is faster then your typical IDE drive, but it is still less 
  then a SCSI Raid configuration).  So, if you are just setting up file 
  transfers, then you don't need much of a machine to do it.  It can have 
  minimal CPU Speed (even Pentium or Pentium II....though I personally wouldn't 
  go lower then a Pentium III to be on the safe side), and memory doesn't have 
  to be whopping (256 megs would do).  This is because the file sharing is 
  going to be slower then actual file usage used locally (do to the pipe the 
  data is going through).  A faster CPU or more memory isn't going to push 
  the data through faster.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Domain 
  Controllers don't need to be whoppers either.  I think we are running a 
  Pentium II (desktop) for a Primary Domain Controller here.  No 
  problems.  It doesn't have to do all that much as far as processing 
  goes.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Network 
  services.  Well, it depends.  We run everything but our mail server 
  on Pentium III desktops.  (Proxy, web, intranet, etc.).  It all runs 
  fine.  Again, it is going to boil down to the network tunnel 
  involved.  With a webserver, a common misconception is that you need to 
  have a huge machine to handle massive transactions.  Absolutely not 
  true.  In a web server, you have an even smaller pipe (we have a T1 
  here), so the data is being sent through an even slower connection.  Now, 
  if you have a lot of Server Side scripting, where the server is creating pages 
  on the fly, then you do need a decent CPU, and the more ram you have, the more 
  pages that are 'cached'.  But again, you don't need a Cray.  Email 
  servers can require a bit more power though.  We use an Exchange 
  Server.  It's got a dual processor, with 2 gigs of RAM.  The real 
  catch is how heavy it is used internally.  (for in house 
  comms).</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Server 
  Computing.  This is where the most power is needed.  There are 
  software packages out there that use server CPU time pretty heavily.  For 
  example, we have a package called FlowTherm, and FlowStress.  These 
  packages perform massive heat calculations, over and over and over.  If 
  you run this software on a server, obviously the more CPU and memory you have 
  the better.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Server 
  Side Databases.  You do need power on these.  But again, you are 
  limitted by your network speed.  However, your processor is going to do a 
  lot of work independant of the network traffic, so it probably should be 
  pretty fast, with lots of memory to boot.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Just my 
  two cents.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial color=blue 
  size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Drew</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm">
    <P class=MsoNormal 
    style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><FONT 
    face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original 
    Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Rocky 
    Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com]<BR><B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:06 
    AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> 
    AccessD at databaseadvisors.com<BR><B><SPAN 
    style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [AccessD] OT: Server 
    Needed</SPAN></FONT></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dear 
    List:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Excuse the OT please but I know 
    someone will know the answer:</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a client who wants to 
    upgrade the server on his network.  There's about 10 seats on his 
    network, of which maybe 6 are being used.  Seems to me that he could 
    use any good, fast P4 box with 1/2 gig of RAM , etc.  Which is well 
    under $1000 these days from dell, or gateway, with three years 
    on-site.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A local, old, fairly reputable 
    company in San Diego - Datel - is quoting him $1457 for and Intel entry 
    level server with a P4 (speed unknown), 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, with DUAL LAN 
    RAID - whatever that is.  Plus another $775 for "WIN 2000 SVR W/5 
    CLIENT SP3 OEM-CD".  Plus something between 5 and 10 hours of 
    installation charged at a price unspecified in the 
    quote.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Right now his "server" is an old 
    Win98 box, slow, but effective.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">My question is, what is the 
    difference between a box that someone like Dell calls a server and an 
    ordinary computer?  Does he need a server?</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">MTIA,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
    style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rocky</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 36pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
    size=3><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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